Freewheeling Engine FAQ    version 95.06.01
             maintained by [email protected]

 The original basis of this list was a transcript from Motor magazine,
August 1991, p. 22, posted to rec.autos.tech by Tom Leone,
([email protected]) and used with his permission.  The original
list was extensively amended and expanded by by Tommy Wilson,
([email protected]).  Other corrections as noted.
(Thanks guys!)

 
Manufacturer    Engine                  Recommended     Engine
                Applications (1)        Change          Damage
                                        Interval        Likely?
                                        (Miles) (1a)
------------    ----------------        -----------     ---------
Acura           All 1986-89             None            Yes
                All 1990                90,000(2)       Yes

Alfa-Romeo      1987-89 Milano          50,000(16)      Yes
                164                     50,000          Yes

Audi            V8                      90,000(3)       Yes
                Diesel                  None            Yes
                All others              None            No

BMW             2.5, 2.7L               60,000          Yes

Chevrolet       Vega 2300                                   (22)
                3.1 DOHC V6                             No  (25)
                Spectrum                60,000          ___

Chrysler Corp.  All Chrysler-built      None            No  (4)
                All Mitsubishi-built    60,000(5)       Yes
                Medallion 2.2L          None            Yes
                3.5L 24 valve V6        100,000 (24)

Daihatsu        1.0L 3-cyl.             60,000          Yes
                1.3L 4-cyl.             60,000          Yes
                1.6L 4-cyl.             120,000(6)      Yes

Fiat            '61-77 124 Coupe/Sypder 24,000          Yes (17)
                1988- 124 Spyder        24,000          No  (17)
                2000 Spyder, 131        24,000          No  (17)

Ford            Escort 1.6L to '83      60,000          Yes
                Escort 1.6L '83-1/2 up  60,000          No
                Escort 1.9L             None            No
                Mazda-built 2.0L diesel 100,000(7)      Yes
                Mazda-built 2.2L        60,000          Yes
                All 2.3L Pinto/Must/etc 60,000          No
                Ranger 2.0L             60,000          No
                '70-'74 Pinto 2000      None(20)(21)    No

Geo             Prizm                   60,000          ___

Honda           All Prelude             60,000          Yes
                Civic, 1.5, 1.6, & HF   60,000          Yes
                1985-89 exc. Civic      None            Yes
                All 1990                90,000(2)       Yes
                '82-'88 Accord          50,000          Yes
                '89-'93 Accord          80,000(13)      50/50 chance

Hyundai         All                     60,000          Yes

Infiniti        All                     60,000          Yes

Isuzu           All                     60,000          Yes

Kia             '95 Sportage 1.9L       60,000(26)      No

Lexus           All                     60,000          No

Maserati        V6  (Biturbo)           30,000          Yes

Mazda           All exc. diesel         60,000          Yes (23)
                Diesel (1984-85)        100,000(7)      Yes

Mitsubishi      All exc. diesel         60,000(5)       Yes
                Diesel                  60,000(7)       Yes

Nissan          '85 Sentra 1.6L                         No  (15)
                most pre-1986           None            Yes
                all 1.6L                60,000          ___
                1986 and later          60,000(8)       Yes

Peugeot         1.9L                    None            No
                2.2L                    None            Yes

Porsche         All 4-cyl.              45,000(9)       Yes
                V8                      60,000(9)       Yes

Sterling        All                     None            Yes

Subaru          All                     60,000          No

Suzuki          All                     None            No

Toyota          All                     60,000(10)      No

Volkswagen      8 valve                 60,000(14)      No  (11)
                16 valve                60,000(14)      Yes (14)

Volvo           All 4-cyl B2[13]F gas   60,000(18)      No
                1992? 6-cyl gas         30,000(19)(5)   Yes
                5 and 6 cyl gas         60,000(5)       Yes
                All Diesels             75,000(7)       Yes

Yugo            1.1L                    None(12)        Yes
                1.3L                    None(12)        No

(1)  "All" refers to all engines equipped with timing belts for each
     maker; does not apply to engines with timing chains or gears.
(1a) The USA doesn't show any signs of going metric in the forseeable
     future.  1 mile = 1.609 kilometers.  Sorry, y'all.
(2)  Or 72 months.
(3)  Inspect and adjust at 30,000 and 60,000 miles.
(4)  2.2L Turbo III, yes.
(5)  Some engines have two belts.
(6)  Or 144 months, whichever comes first.
(7)  Has front and rear belts.
(8)  Or 48 months; inspect at 15,000 miles or 12 months.
(9)  Check tension at 2000 miles, then every 15,000 miles.
(10) Inspect at 30,000 or 45,000 miles per model.
(11) At high engine speed.
(12) Inspect every 15,000 miles.  Engine service schedule ends at
     50,000 miles.
(13) Depending on cam position when the engine stops, the engine
     may escape damage, as opposed to most others, which are always
     damaged.  A compression check will tell if there was damage.
     ([email protected])
(14) info from James Matthew Kokernak ([email protected])
(15) info from Steve Anthony Nilsen ([email protected])
(16) info from Richard Welty ([email protected])
(17) info from Mike Jones ([email protected])
(18) with the possible exception of the 4-valve version, the B234F.
     info from ([email protected])
(19) owners manual says 60,000, but this engine wears out belts
     due to vibration damping problems, so the manufacturer now
     recommends 30,000 mile replacement. ([email protected])
(20) In his book "Hot to Hotrod Your 2.0 Liter OHC Ford" David Vizard
     mentions belt life is often related to temperature.  He has seen
     belts last over 80,000 in cool climates, less than 20,000 in hot
     climates.  He mentions race engines with stiff valve springs can
     get less than 1000 miles from a belt, and recommends belt change
     intervals of 30,000 miles on street motors with stiff springs.
     ([email protected])
(21) Ford wanted $14 for a new belt last time I checked.  It hardly
     seems worthwhile to go for an off-brand parts-store belt.
     ([email protected])
(22) water pump slides left to right to adjust belt tension, drooling
     antifreeze everywhere. 
(23) Recently the belt end of my crankshaft broke resulting in a pretty
     good simulation of a broken timing belt. This happened at around
     4500 rpm.  The car is an '88 Mazda 323GT with a 1.6 liter 16v
     turbocharged engine.  There was *no* head damage. This leads me to
     believe that on this engine at least there is no interference.
     - [email protected] (Jerry Broaddus)
(24) from [email protected]
(25) Road and Track, April 1990
(26) Automotive Industries, April 1995.


Comments:

"Although some manufacturers do not specify a belt replacement, it's
 a good idea to plan for one at the 50 to 60 thousand mile mark."
- Tommy Wilson

"Typical failure mode is for the belt to shear off several teeth, so
 that it no longer moves.  Belts rarely break in service."
- Dave Williams

"The belt idler pulley may be a source of noise, sounding much like a
 bad alternator.  For some older engines such as the Ford 2000, these
 idlers are no longer available and there appear to be no aftermarket
 sources.  In this case you may have to find a junkyard part or adapt
 a replacement."
-Dave Williams

"A common question is, 'Why do manufacturers design engines which will
 self-destruct if the belt breaks?'  There are many reasons - most of
 them have to do with combustion chamber shape and valve arrangement,
 which are dictated by mileage, power, and smog design goals.  Most
 old-style chain-drive engines will also bend valves if the chain
 breaks or stretches until it jumps a few teeth, and it's not *that*
 uncommon for it to happen.  Also, if people would change the belt
 when the manufacturer said to, they probably wouldn't have any
 problems."
-Dave Williams
Return to top From: [email protected] (Steve Perron) Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech Subject: Re: valve damge/broken timingbelt-which cars Date: 27 May 1995 01:36:36 GMT : Someone published a list which I did not save unfortunately. Maybe they : will do it again. I seem to remember all Toyotas and later model American : cars as safer in that regard but that is from memory. Here is a list of cars from 81 to 90 with the interference type engines: Acuras: all Alfa-Romeo: all AUDI: V8, diesel. BMW: 2.5 L, 2.7 L Chrysler: All Mitsubishi built and Medallion 2.2 L Daihatsu: all Ford: Escort 1.6L, Mazda-built 2.0L diesel & 2.2 L Honda: 83 Prelude and all 84-90 Hyundai: all Infinity: all Isuzu: all Mazda: all gas, 84-85 diesel Nissan: all Peugeot: 2.2L Porsche: all 4 & 8 cyl. Sterling: all Volkswagen: all Volvo: all Yugo: 1.1L From: [email protected] (TOM NEUMANN) Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech Subject: RE: VALVE DAMGE/BROKEN TI Date: Sun, 28 May 95 00:18:00 -0500 Reply-To: [email protected] (TOM NEUMANN) [email protected] (Steve Perron) writes: SP>Here is a list of cars from 81 to 90 with the interference type engines: SP>Volkswagen: all All VW water cooled gasoline engines with 8 valves were (and currently are) NON-interference engines. Valve damage will NOT result in these engines if the timing belt brakes. Valve damage will occur on 16 valve engines and diesels depending on the circumstances. #: 450245 S17/European & UK Cars 29-Sep-95 22:48:24 Sb: #449093-#93 Volvo 960 Fm: Kenneth A. Crossner 75451,1527 To: Peter J. Alper 75047,722 (X) re: "When the belt breaks (and it will!!!!) you end up with 32 of the bentist valves you'll ever see." I know that is true for many other automobiles, but can you explain to me why or how you are claiming that it is true of volvo engines. Volvo engines are supposed to be "free wheeling," which means that there is enough clearance between the valves (in their MOST open position) and the top of the piston (at TDC) so that they cannot come in contact with one another! Thus, even if the camshaft and crankshaft continue to spin unsynchronized (when the timing belt fails and they continue to spin for a short time from their own inertia) there SHOULD NOT be a collision of these parts. When the belt fails, the engine is suppose to simply "die" without catastrophic damage. In fact, the belts often fail when the car is started on a cold morning -- the crankshaft turns, driven by the starter, and the valves, some of which may be open more or less, aren't damaged. Aside from considering special modified, high-compression (non-turbo) engines with possibly domed pistons, all of which would be definitely non-stock, how come your forecast of DOOM is so different from Volvo's claims? There is 1 Reply. #: 450581 S17/European & UK Cars 30-Sep-95 17:16:16 Sb: #450245-#93 Volvo 960 Fm: Peter J. Alper 75047,722 To: Kenneth A. Crossner 75451,1527 (X) Why would Volvo be their own messenger of DOOM? Of course they won't tell you about all the booboos. But, aha...I worked for the parent company for 12 years and I know of what i speak. Volvo's last "non-interference" engines were in the 1984 model year. That was the B-23. Starting in 1985 the B-230 and varients had pistons that "COULD" kiss the valves. As for the B634 (960) I have personally seen "32 bent valves". If you're such a believer in any Manufacturer's claims I guess you haven't had any problems with all the goods purchased by you. I own a Volvo Service business and drive (and have driven dozens of them) as personal cars. I certainly know that they are fine, long lasting machines (if cared for) yet I also know and see every business day what product deficiencies there are. Never get into a "pissing contest" with a skunk! There is 1 Reply. #: 451290 S17/European & UK Cars 01-Oct-95 22:41:44 Sb: #450581-93 Volvo 960 Fm: Kenneth A. Crossner 75451,1527 To: Peter J. Alper 75047,722 (X) re: "Volvo's last "non-interference" engines were in the 1984 model year. That was the B-23. Starting in 1985 the B-230 and varients had pistons that "COULD" kiss the valves." Ah. That explains it. My newest car is a '84 240 (I also have a '83 and a '80 240). I am really disappointed in Volvo. I guess routine changing will prevent timing belt failure, but it was always nice to know that nothing serious would happen even if I had a faulty belt. Oh well. After 23 years owning Volvos (first was a '73 164), I guess I've been getting more disappointed over time, especially turning to FWD with that tiny 850, and phasing out the 940's. I thought I'd buy a 940 or 960 after a few more years (when my '83 or '84 got about 300K on it), but I guess they'll even phase out the 960 pretty soon. #: 455655 S17/European & UK Cars 07-Oct-95 22:49:04 Sb: #454871-Info needed on Ferrari Fm: John Miles 70322,2457 To: Bruce Robertson 100236,200 <<... has a dry sump engine, which I gather a lot of the European spec cars came with-what is yours? Mine does still have that annoying Microswitch which I know a lot of guys complain about.>> Mine is not the dry-sump type, although I have yet to notice a drop in oil pressure due to hard cornering. Consumption is pretty much in line with what the owner's manual predicts -- one quart per 600 miles(!). I guess oil's cheap, though! <> No, I have never heard of trouble tendencies with 308 valves. The seals, though, are apparently of neoprene rubber, which just isn't made to last 18 years without letting some oil through, I guess. No big deal, as long as it doesn't get worse anytime soon. As soon as the engine has run for a minute or two, the "sprinkling" through the exhaust pipes stops completely. << With 38000 miles on your clock your engine should be as good as new. Mine has 51000 Kilometres on it which at a conversion factor of 1.6 is about 32000 miles.>> Yep, it's plenty strong enough for Mad Max himself. The car feels at least as quick and strong as my 236HP 968, which isn't bad because the US-spec 308s were supposed to have only 205HP. <> Doesn't it cost a lot more than $30 to fedex an oil filter to Australia? Sending 3.75 pounds to Taipei the other day set me back a cool $80. < The engine would be perfectly happy at 2200 or so for that speed. I just haven't taken any really long Interstate trips with it yet -- if I had a good excuse to take it out towards El Paso (I live in Austin, Texas), I'm sure it would pull to redline in 5th with no trouble at all. Too darned much traffic around here, though. What does your water temp usually run? Mine seems to be a little flaky sometimes -- it sits at around 170F (77C) a lot of the time, going to 195F (90C) fairly frequently, with occasional, completely inexplicable spikes up to 220F (104C) or so. I wonder if my water pump and/or thermostat is getting long in the tooth -- the temperature variations often aren't correlated to changes in the weather or driving habits. I'm keeping an eye on it for now, before I start randomly replacing parts. I don't want a blown head gasket, though, so I'm keeping a real _close_ eye on it. (It's never actually overheated -- just gotten awfully hot.) <> My owner's manual does not say that leaded gas is required; since the car was sold in the US as a 1977 model, it had to at least be compatible with unleaded gas. I have never noticed any knocking under any circumstances, so the engine doesn't seem too octane-sensitive (no surprise, as compression is only 8.8:1 with the US-spec pistons). I find that if I use 93-octane (premium on our octane scale) unleaded, the car doesn't seem to do a good job burning all the gas -- after sitting at an intersection for a few minutes, your clothes start to take on a very obnoxious unburned-gasoline odor. I find that this is entirely remedied by using 89-octane "plus-grade" gas, and the car still seems perfectly happy with 87 (regular unleaded). 89 is what I'm sticking with for the most part. I wouldn't worry overmuch about using unleaded gas -- it's practically impossible to find leaded gas anymore in most parts of the US, and I have not heard of any suffering Ferraris as a result. The car just does not seem particular at all when it comes to gas quality. A Euro-spec car, OTOH, may be a different story. Bob Norwood's philosophy with regard to 308s is to use very hot spark plugs, contradicting the owner's manual and shop manual. He says that that specification was written for the Italian home marketplace, where gasoline quality and octane rating is truly horrible compared to what we have in the States, and that the 308's reputation for plug-fouling is due largely to the use of unnecessarily-cold spark plugs. The hotter set he put in with the MSD ignition setup seems to be working great -- and since my backfiring complaint didn't get any worse, I would say that this is something to consider if you ever have trouble with fouling. Mine has never had that problem, but I've always heard a lot of them do. Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 17:57:35 -0600 From: Leonard Schmitt Subject: Re: Italian reliability? To: [email protected] The Ferrari owners manual for the 348 lists inspection of the belts every 15,000 miles, which is when the valve clearances are checked, and replacement of the belt at 52,000 miles. My wifes Porsche 968 requires replacement of the belts at a similar frequency. The F355 has hydraulic self adjusting valves so that expense is gone. The dealer told me the F355 is the cheapest Ferrari to maintain because of this. Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 22:14:48 -0800 (PST) From: [email protected] Subject: Re[2]: Italian reliability? --Boundary (ID jHBZBld6TELqJoheeIy9hQ) Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Frank writes: > not actually owning one, my $.02 worth of logic is that these are > *seriously tuned* machines. and to run at with the tolerances that > they are setup for, they have to be constantly nurtured. This reminds me of the reason the Lamborghini Urraco got a bad reputation for crashing pistons. The two SOHCs on the Urraco P250 are driven by a single belt. The factory recommends you renew this belt after about 18,000 miles. The belt is about $45, but unless you know a mechanic who has done this before, they may have to drop the engine to do it. Even though the engine is mounted on a subframe, and relatively easy to remove (if you have a hoist that can lift the car over the detached motor), this can be an expensive job. When the Urraco P250 first hit the market, it was priced about $17,000 and (speculation is that) people could buy the car who weren't really familiar with exotic car maintenance. Naturally, a lot of them skimped on the belt change, and somewhere between 40,000 to 50,000 miles the belt breaks. This is where those close, exotic engine tolerances come into play. There isn't enough room in the combustion chamber for valves and the piston. BANG! Rather than try to "educate" their customers, Lamborghini just made the next model (the Urraco P300) with chain driven DOHCs.