From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Tue Nov  1 01:58:38 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Edelbrock Carbs
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X-From: frank@rebel.dsea.com (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
Content-Length: 1977


I have been working on and off for a while trying to really understand 
the workings of the Carter/Federal Mogul/Edelbrock/Webber carburators.

I have gotten the tuning down pretty well.  With an oxygen sensor in the
exhaust and the graphs published by Edelbrock I can usually tune with 
about six iterations.  

The idea of having four static control points ( idle, primary-cruise,
primary-power, and secondary ) and two dynamic ones ( cruise-primary
spring and accelerator pump volume ) plus the built-in behavior
of the carb. to apporoximate a three dimensional surface ( best power
) has sunk in.  There really are not enough control points to do
it well.  All hail EFI!

To try and better understand what is going on, I wrote a spreadsheet
that takes all know primary rod/jet/position combinations and tries
to use the standard anular flow computation on them.  I never
expected it to be a good fit -- everybody knows carbs. are not 
"predictable" -- but I did not expect such strange behavior.

Even when normalized by stock jetting ( #1 in the Edelbrock graphs )
the relationships are not simple.  

By carefully comparing calculated, normalized flow with the flow
relationships published, and by looking at some jets under a loupe, 
I have concluded that 
   1) each jet has its own venturi shape, 
   2) each rod always uses both profiles to control fuel flow
   3) each jet/rod combination cross-section is unique

In sum, my simple calculations are worthless, execpt as an educational
tool.

I have the stuff available, setup to pump stdout though 
 pic, grap, troff, and wsh and make pictures on the fly.  

Does anybody have a good, analytical stepped needle / conical jet
calculation tool?  Just for fun, mind you.


Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704       DoD:1097


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Tue Nov  1 02:02:22 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Books
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X-From: frank@rebel.dsea.com (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
Content-Length: 1591


Following Dave Williams discussion of several months ago, I thought I'd
sum up two hotrod-related books I just read.

The first is the classic "Prepare to Win".  This book is a simple, clear
hands-on text, but outdated.  There are some useful examples, but for the
most part I found that there was nothing advanced.  A good filler book
for anybody thinking about driving or crewing.

The second is a more recent book ( 1983 ) called 
"Stock Car Chassis Technology".  Although the whole book is concerned
about going left all the time, the authors explain many important points.
The relationships of chassis, tires, shocks, springs and aerodynamics are
discussed.  Very much to my delight the real meaning and use of 
Ackerman angles, roll centers, anti-pro/squat-dive geometries were
explained, along with two, three, four, five and six point live
axle attachment, brake types, Watts linkages, etc..  Chassis bind, weight
jacking, stagger, wedge, understeer and oversteer were discussed at good 
length.  There were plenty of pictures showing good and bad technique.  
Overall worth reading.  There was even a bit of math.

Neither of these books has an ISBN, and each was on sale at my local
Sears store (!!!) for a really cheap price.

I still intend to pick up "Theory of Ground Vehicals" -- when I can spare
the $80.  I'll sum up that too.

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704       DoD:1097


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Tue Nov  1 02:27:50 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: intake swap
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X-From: Wesly Poka 
Content-Length: 294

Hi, A friend of mine wants me to help him swap his intake manifold.  All the
times I've done them (ok 3 times), I usually changed cams at the same time. 
My question is can I just pull the distributor (chevy engine) and put it back
the same way or do I have to set it from no.1 cylinder?

wes


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Tue Nov  1 02:41:25 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re: rust removal
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X-From: Dirk Broer 
Content-Length: 1781


>Well, the power sander was unimpressive on that ventura.  Do I use a 
>grinder to get the surface rust off? or a certain type of paper?
>I am new to this body work stuff.

If there is alot of rust you'll be there all day with a DA sander - time to get 
a grinder with a flat disk.  Watch for heat - you don't want to add too much 
heat to the surface - you also don't want it too thin.  I personally prefer to 
get it down with 80 grit on a DA sander - all those little pits that the sander 
can't get to - I chemically treat.  A metal prep with phosporic accide shoue 
allow you to wash away the rust.  Follow up with an etching primer - with zinc 
(see the Sikkens PolyUrathane system).  If you go to an autobody supply place - 
you'll see two types of sanding papaer - 80 grit for rough work - and something 
like 160 for feathering.  For all paints but lacquer this should be O.K.

IMHO - if you get it down to a few black specs of rust (pits) and you 
chemically treat them - as long as you keep moisture away you'll be O.K.

For deep rust and scaling you'll need a disk grinder though.

>[ 80 grid sanding belts will work well on bodywork you do not really
>care about.   In the past I have cleaned rust with a cup brush 
>and with a grinder.  I am no expert, though.  --FEP ] 

You can get grinding wheels that fit into a die grinder (normally designed for 
a drill but....)  These are about 2.5" in diameter and seem to hold up at 15,
000rpm.  

A word of caution - use well filtered air from an air compressor - after 
chugging a few hours with a DA or die grinder moisture will condense at the 
tool and drip on your work...  Also wear a dust mask - you never know what 
chemicals lurk in the paint - nothing you want to coat your eyes and lungs with 
I'm sure.

Dirk


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Tue Nov  1 03:24:36 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: re: hot thermostat @efficiency
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X-From: Dirk Broer 
Content-Length: 3652

>hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List) Wrote:
>| Basic thermodynamics dictate that efficiency can be quickly 
>| calculated by
>| measuring the intake and exhaust temperatures of a heat engine. 
>| The maximum
>| efficiency of a heat engine is e<= 1- Tcool/Thot.
>| 
>| In effect, the colder the intake and hotter the exhaust the more 
>| power our
>| engine will produce. This is the basis for actual research in 
>| ceramic and
>| other forms of high temperature engines.
>
>
>It's been a long time since I took thermo, but I think the above is close but 
>not quite.  Max efficiency of a heat engine is infact 1-Tcool/Thot, but in the 
>case of an IC engine, Thot isn't the exhaust temperature, it's the temp of the 
>burning A/F mixture.  If you could heat up the flame (different fuel?), you 

Yes.

>could extract more energy.  Heat is energy, so if the exhaust is hot, there is 
>energy there that wasn't extracted.  A more efficient engine would have 
>exhaust temperature at ambient (or below?).  

A Carnot cycle engine suggest the temperature must remain within the cold sink 
temperature (ie inlet temp) and the hot sink temperature (ie burning temp).

>Imagine if you could have a power stroke longer than compression stroke.  X 
>amount of work is done to compress the charge, you get X back on the power 
>stroke, plus more work because the cylinder is at a higher pressure (due to 
>higher temperature).  The cylinder temperature goes down as pressure is 
>released.  If the power stroke could be lengthened, you could extract more 
>energy, because cylinder temperature is still above ambient.  

Again the an engine cycle assumes you will end up at the starting point.  The 
Carnot (I hope I'm not mispelling that) assumes 4 phases - the compression - 
more specifically adiabatic compression (so fast that heat is not lost to the 
cylinder walls), Heating, adiabatic expansion, Cooling.  The amount of power 
produced is the area covered by plotting Pressure vs. Volume.  As the mixture 
is heated, its pressure increase by PV=nRT.  Remebering Pressure * delta V 
somehow equals work.  Now throw in RPM and you get rate of work or horsepower.
More compression gives a larger area - more heat does the same.

>Now I'm curious.  What if you changed the standard Otto cycle some?  You could 
>close the intake valve early, allowing less air into the cylinder.  Inject 
>correspondingly less fuel to keep a 14:1 mixture.  Now you have effectively 
>shortened the compression stroke relative to the power stroke.  Exhaust 
>temperature would be lower, since for every cycle you are doing more 
>uncompression than you did compression.  Sure, you are burning less fuel, so 
>you are getting less power, but the overall engine is more efficient.

Becareful - basic thermo doesn't care what your burning to determine efficiency 
- the efficiency of the burn and the efficiency of the cycle are two different 
things.  If your cycle is 50% efficient - and your burn is 50% efficient - your 
total efficiency is 25%...  Now we don't even want to start on factoring drag, 
friction, exhaust restrictions, intake restrictions etc.

If I remember correctly the B-29 bombers of WWII would run WOT with maximum 
pitch on the propellers and adjust speed by adjusting boost for maximum fuel 
economy - something about WOT being the most efficient cruise setting (they can 
adjust A/F ratio).

>On a related subject, I know that increasing the compression ratio increases 
>the efficiency of an engine, but I don't remember why.  Anyone?

It increase how much power and or work is done.  Remember all temperatures most 
be taken from absolute zero.

Dirk



From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Tue Nov  1 03:42:47 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: re: Re: hot thermostat & efficiency (fwd)
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X-From: David Wright 
Content-Length: 3474

(Sorry for leaving so much quoted text - lotsa good points I don't want to
lose.)

>| measuring the intake and exhaust temperatures of a heat engine. 
>| The maximum
>| efficiency of a heat engine is e<= 1- Tcool/Thot.
>| 
>| In effect, the colder the intake and hotter the exhaust the more 
>| power our

No - as mentioned below, it's the hotter combustion temp - hot exhaust is lost
power (energy that went to heating the air rather than moving the car).

>| engine will produce. This is the basis for actual research in 
>| ceramic and
>| other forms of high temperature engines.
>
>It's been a long time since I took thermo, but I think the above is close but 
>not quite.  Max efficiency of a heat engine is infact 1-Tcool/Thot, but in the 

Also, an Otto cycle's max efficiency is even less.

>case of an IC engine, Thot isn't the exhaust temperature, it's the temp of the 
>burning A/F mixture.  If you could heat up the flame (different fuel?), you 
>could extract more energy.  Heat is energy, so if the exhaust is hot, there is 
>energy there that wasn't extracted.  A more efficient engine would have 
>exhaust temperature at ambient (or below?).  
>
>Imagine if you could have a power stroke longer than compression stroke.  X 
>amount of work is done to compress the charge, you get X back on the power 
>stroke, plus more work because the cylinder is at a higher pressure (due to 
>higher temperature).  The cylinder temperature goes down as pressure is 
>released.  If the power stroke could be lengthened, you could extract more 
>energy, because cylinder temperature is still above ambient.  
>
>Now I'm curious.  What if you changed the standard Otto cycle some?  You could 
>close the intake valve early, allowing less air into the cylinder.  Inject 
>correspondingly less fuel to keep a 14:1 mixture.  Now you have effectively 
>shortened the compression stroke relative to the power stroke.  Exhaust 
>temperature would be lower, since for every cycle you are doing more 
>uncompression than you did compression.  Sure, you are burning less fuel, so 
>you are getting less power, but the overall engine is more efficient.

Well, you just described a Miller cycle engine, except the intake gets closed
_late_, so you don't have to expand and contract the mix an extra time, which
loses some heat.  This means some of the mix gets pushed back out the intake
valve before it closes.  In practical terms, this adds a lot of wierd flow
patterns in the intake, and can really confuse a carb, which is why it's only
now being implemented in production engines with computer controlled injection.
>
>On a related subject, I know that increasing the compression ratio increases 
>the efficiency of an engine, but I don't remember why.  Anyone?

Well, there's more energy in the beginning of the expansion curve than the end, 
so moving the section captured up higher gives more total output (given that 
you don't lose too much of the tail in the process).  Higher CR also increases 
combustion temp which also raises efficiency.  I think it's the temp increase
that makes the big difference, if I remember right.
>
>--steve
>
David Wright (dwrig@tog-1s.hac.com)
65 Belvedere II 4-door 273, 74 Challenger Rallye 360
(13 years since the frat rats stole my thermo final exam to put in their study
file - I don't remember much of it, except that the professor pronounced Joule
"jowl", and I got reaquainted with a girl I knew in high school, who I later
married.)


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Tue Nov  1 04:06:36 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re: re: Hotrod Digest
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X-From: Richard Bjornson 
Content-Length: 902

|Well, the power sander was unimpressive on that ventura.  Do I use a 
|grinder to get the surface rust off? or a certain type of paper?
|I am new to this body work stuff.
|
|thanX!
|Marc
|
|[ 80 grid sanding belts will work well on bodywork you do not really
|care about.   In the past I have cleaned rust with a cup brush 
|and with a grinder.  I am no expert, though.  --FEP ] 
|
|

For surface rust (I'd assume youre using a DA sander), use 60-80 
grit of the rust is bad, or you want to take a few lawers of paint 
off.

--Rich

--
:":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":
:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:

      Why do women wear perfumes that smell like flowers to attract men?
      I have a better idea - how about 'New Car Interior' ?
                  
                           -- Naked Beneath My Clothes


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Wed Nov  2 20:40:35 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re: Hotrod Digest
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X-From: "Joe B. McGlynn (415) 354-2728" 
Content-Length: 688

Try sanding as much rust off as possible using 
something around 80 grit.  For small areas and those 
nooks and cranies try a 3M Strip-N-Clean wheel on your 
drill.  Once you have the heavy stuff off use 'metal 
prep' (AKA: Phosphoric Acid).  Dilute according to the 
directions and spend an hour or more scrubbing with the 
metal prep and a scotchbrite pad.  This should kill and 
 rust you didn't sand off.  Galvaprep next, follow the 
directions.  Then the best primer AND PAINT you can 
manage.  Primers, with the exception of the nasty 
catalyzed stuff like DP-40, will actually hold water 
like a sponge.  Probably not what you want on your nice 
new sheetmetal.

Good luck!

Joe



From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Wed Nov  2 20:52:04 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Rust/Paint removal
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X-From: jws@mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger)
Content-Length: 798


 I find a wire wheel to be more effective than sanding, because wire
wheels don't load up, and can get into pits and crevices. A cup wheel
has been mentioned; this is best for flats. You can also get flat 
wheels which you use edge-on, good for corners, drip rails, etc.
The new 4-1/2" grinders can be gotten pretty inexpensively, I think
I paid $59 or something at Sears a few months back. The consumables
are not bad, and you can price shop. Problem is, the little cup
brushes for these are -little- and don't seem to last. They also
launch bristles at random time, angle and high velocity. You end 
up looking like a hedgehog and glad you wore a thick shirt. For 
full panel work, the little guys are, well, too little. A 7-1/2"
heavy duty job with a big wire wheel will be the ticket here. 



From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Wed Nov  2 21:11:31 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: re: hot thermostat @efficiency
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X-From: yarvin-norman@CS.YALE.EDU (Norman Yarvin)
Content-Length: 494

>If I remember correctly the B-29 bombers of WWII would run WOT with
>maximum pitch on the propellers and adjust speed by adjusting boost for
>maximum fuel economy - something about WOT being the most efficient
>cruise setting (they can adjust A/F ratio).

That's interesting to hear.  I'd assume that WOT is most efficient
simply because there is no loss from air friction around the throttle.
It's not called 'throttling' the engine for nothing...


--
Norman Yarvin						yarvin@cs.yale.edu


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Wed Nov  2 21:29:35 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: re: Re: hot thermostat & efficiency (fwd)
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X-From: Steve=Ravet%Prj=Eng%PCPD=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Content-Length: 1146

hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List) Wrote:
|>Now I'm curious.  What if you changed the standard Otto cycle some?  You 
could 
|>close the intake valve early, allowing less air into the cylinder.  Inject 
|>correspondingly less fuel to keep a 14:1 mixture.  Now you have effectively 
|>shortened the compression stroke relative to the power stroke.  Exhaust 
|>temperature would be lower, since for every cycle you are doing more 
|>uncompression than you did compression.  Sure, you are burning less fuel, so 
|>you are getting less power, but the overall engine is more efficient.
| 
| Well, you just described a Miller cycle engine, except the intake 
| gets closed
| _late_, so you don't have to expand and contract the mix an extra 
| time, which
| loses some heat.  This means some of the mix gets pushed back out 
| the intake
| valve before it closes.  In practical terms, this adds a lot of 
| wierd flow
| patterns in the intake, and can really confuse a carb, which is 
| why it's only
| now being implemented in production engines with computer 
| controlled injection.

Production engines?  Who's building them?

--steve



From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Wed Nov  2 21:41:59 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re: Books
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X-From: "Bill Dermond" 
Content-Length: 1425

     I've been discussing Ackerman with a member on another list, and
     we finally got rejected becuase the moderator didn't know what we
     we're talking about...what a pleasure to hear "tech talk" on a
     technical mailing list.

     I agree with the "dated" characteristic of "Prepare To Win", but I
     think that all of Carroll Smith's books are valuable, especially
     "Engineer To Win".  Among other things, it's a primer on
     metallurgy, as that science applies to race cars.

     And how about "Race Car Engineering and Design"....(Von
     Fulkenberg?)

     And if you want to listen to a couple hundred mechanical
     engineering students go at it, subscribe to the Formula SAE
     mailing list at "fsae@list.gatech.edu" (quotations are for
     emphasis only).  This is a mailing list for about 80 schools that
     are invloved in the SAE-sanctioned Formula racing series.  The
     moderator calls us non-student types "lurkers", but he doesn't
     seem to mind...

     You may want to ftp the A-arm suspension program that was recently
     mentioned on the FSAE list.  It's at "ftp.gatech.edu
     /pub/fsae/susp". The file is called suspen.exe; get the .txt file,
     too.  I've had it for about a month, it's pretty cool, and it
     passed the virus check.  It'll take about 100K of disc space.

     [ How about source code for the non PC types?  --FEP ]

     bdermond@cc.atinc.com


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Wed Nov  2 21:55:20 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re[3]: Hotrod Digest
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X-From: "Bill Dermond" 
Content-Length: 2491

     For those following this thread, FEP made the observation last week 
     that either you paint it, or you watch it rust...he's absolutely 
     right.
     
     There are only a few ways to REALLY get rid of rust: panel 
     replacement, dipping, or sandblasting.  Of the three, sandblasting is 
     a distant third because it can warp the panel, and since it is a 
     mechanical process, you are not assured of 100% rust removal.
     
     These techniques are then followed up by the application of a metal 
     etch and then an epoxy or self-etching primer, such as Ditzler's DP-90 
     (or 40, etc.  The number denotes the color).  
     
     Keep in mind that primer is NOT paint, as in it is NOT impervious to 
     the elements.  Some primers are much more durable than others: lacquer 
     primers, for instance,  are transparent to moisture and will offer 
     virtually NO protection; epoxy primers offer such an excellent 
     moisture barrier that, at least in the case of DP-90, it is 
     recommended to be applied BEFORE the filler.  Nevertheless, even the 
     best primer eventually breaks down if it is left exposed.  
     
     But, you'll spend about $100 for a gallon of DP-90 primer/catalyst, it 
     can only be applied with professional spray equipment, and it will 
     trap all that rust underneath..... 
     
     To IMPEDE the rust, however, I would concur with the 60-80 grit 
     approach.  The goal would be to remove as much of the visible rust as 
     possible.  Then, using a Scotchbrite pad, scrub the panel with a 
     diluted solution of Muriatic acid.  MAKE SURE YOU WEAR GLOVES, FACE 
     PROTECTION, AND A RESPIRATOR !!!  Muriatic acid doesn't have a lot of 
     brightly colored caution labels on it, but it is NASTY stuff.
     
     After sanding/etching, rinse and dry the panel. Apply one of the 
     spray-bomb rust inhibitors, like EXTEND. Then, prime it with something 
     like Rustoleum's rust-inhibiting primer.
     
     And be prepared to grind it all off next spring and do it properly.
     
     My $.02
     
     bdermond@cc.atinc.com

:":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":":": 
:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:
     
      Why do women wear perfumes that smell like flowers to attract men? 
      I have a better idea - how about 'New Car Interior' ?
     
                           -- Naked Beneath My Clothes
     


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Wed Nov  2 22:09:34 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re: Re: hot thermostat & efficiency
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X-From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky)
Content-Length: 453

Hotrod List writes:
> 
> On a related subject, I know that increasing the compression ratio increases 
> the efficiency of an engine, but I don't remember why.  Anyone?

T2 increases.

-- 
Jonathan R. Lusky                        lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu
http://frank.mtsu.edu:8001/~lusky/          (615) 455-9915
-------------------------------------   ------------------------------
68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350  \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Wed Nov  2 22:22:42 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: re: intake swap
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: Steve=Ravet%Prj=Eng%PCPD=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Content-Length: 654

hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List) Wrote:
| 
| 
| Hi, A friend of mine wants me to help him swap his intake 
| manifold.  All the
| times I've done them (ok 3 times), I usually changed cams at the 
| same time. 
| My question is can I just pull the distributor (chevy engine) and 
| put it back
| the same way or do I have to set it from no.1 cylinder?
| 
| wes
| 

In the one car I did this on ('78 monte carlo w/ HEI) the distributor only 
mates with the shaft in two ways (correct and 180 degrees off).  So if you 
mark where the distributor body is wrt to the manifold, and which direction 
the rotor points, you should be OK.

--steve



From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 17:35:41 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Mustang mass air flow sensors
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: Jim Conforti 
Content-Length: 291


Does anyone know anything about the Hitachi air mass sensors used on
some of the mustangs ..

They have an analog voltage (v. PWM) output to the ECU ..

Any info/specs greatly appreciated

I'm going to interface this sensor to the Bosch Motronic system

Jim Conforti






From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 18:04:26 1994
From: server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 18:13:40 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re: Hotrod Digest (what is Galvaprep?)
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
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X-From: Dirk Broer 
Content-Length: 170

>Galvaprep next, follow the 

O.K what is Galvaprep and how does it comparte to hot dip galvinazation.

Is it a brand name?  If so, whose?  Anymail order sources?

Dirk


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 18:20:42 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: re: Re: hot thermostat & efficiency (fwd) 
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: Harjeet Dillon 
Content-Length: 326

Responding to msg by hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod 
List) on Tuesday, Nov 01  9:13 A


>| now being implemented in production engines with 
>computer | controlled injection.
>
>Production engines?  Who's building them?
>
>--steve
>
>

The new Mazda Millenia has a Miller engine, no?

Harjeet Dhillon, Seattle WA 



From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 18:22:09 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re: Rust/Paint removal
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
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X-From: Richard Bjornson 
Content-Length: 1090

|
| I find a wire wheel to be more effective than sanding, because wire
|wheels don't load up, and can get into pits and crevices. A cup wheel
|has been mentioned; this is best for flats. You can also get flat 
|wheels which you use edge-on, good for corners, drip rails, etc.
|The new 4-1/2" grinders can be gotten pretty inexpensively, I think
|I paid $59 or something at Sears a few months back. The consumables
|are not bad, and you can price shop. Problem is, the little cup
|brushes for these are -little- and don't seem to last. They also
|launch bristles at random time, angle and high velocity. You end 
|up looking like a hedgehog and glad you wore a thick shirt. For 
|full panel work, the little guys are, well, too little. A 7-1/2"
|heavy duty job with a big wire wheel will be the ticket here. 
|
|
|

USE A DUAL ACTION SANDER WITH AN AIR COMPRESSOR!
60 to 80 grit paper (real cheap)
IT WORKS

--
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'
 
                 Law of Selected Gravity:
      An object will fall so as to do the most damage.


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 18:27:45 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: re: Re: hot thermostat & efficiency (fwd)
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: paraska@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Pete Paraska)
Content-Length: 271

After a description of the Miller cycle, which mentioned someone had
a production model, steve asked:
>
>Production engines?  Who's building them?

THe answer is Mazda, in the new Millinea  (sp?)

~~~~ Pete (paraska@oasys.dt.navy.mil) /\ IZCC#15 /\ Laurel,Maryland~~~~



From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 18:32:18 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re: intake swap
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu (Jonathan R. Lusky)
Content-Length: 624

Hotrod List writes:
> 
> In the one car I did this on ('78 monte carlo w/ HEI) the distributor only 
> mates with the shaft in two ways (correct and 180 degrees off).  So if you 
> mark where the distributor body is wrt to the manifold, and which direction 
> the rotor points, you should be OK.

That is assuming the oilpump driveshaft is not disturbed.

-- 
Jonathan R. Lusky                        lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu
http://frank.mtsu.edu:8001/~lusky/          (615) 455-9915
-------------------------------------   ------------------------------
68 Camaro Convertible - 350 / TH350  \_/ 80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 18:43:59 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Drag Strip Q's
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: dave dabay 
Content-Length: 1451

 Guys
 
 I know there is a better way to ask this question .....  but..........
 
 I am in a position to buy a drag strip.  I have always been into
 street racing, brackets and NHRA stuff....
 
 Now some questions for the group...

 	Way back when, circa 1973, all the brackets did 1/4 mile
 	seems that there is a whole lot of 1/8 mile activity??
 
 	This is an 1/8 mile track. Not a lot of room to ever make it into a 
 	1/4 mile track.  Good Bad or doesn't matter.??
 
 	The current owners are getting out for health reasons, he has
 	had several operations, the price is affordable, but almost
 	to good to be true.  Any recent news of tracks sold/leased or
 	built??
 
 	They have afull recent set of Chrondek timers (again they were the 
 	best in the late 70's) trees, etc..  good/bad ??? What woudl be
 	better.
 
 	It is a small dragway, usually 60-100 cars only on saturdays.  What
 	are some descriptions of the tracks you guys play on??  Acreage,
 	spectators, bleachers, concessions, pit area??
 
 	What special things do you look for in a track to call it home??  Good
	food??  Large Payouts??  What else??

 I am aware of the risks/liabilities and we have a very good accountant, 
 insurance agent and lawyer.  Any other big things I have forgotten??
 
 Please give me your thoughts....
 dave
 
--
Dave Dabay       Telecommunications Engineer Supervisor      KD3PC
Radford University Network Services	Internet: ddabay@esprit.runet.edu


From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 18:46:14 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Has anyone built their own trailer? (long)
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: Dirk Broer 
Content-Length: 4708

Well my latest project (not that I've completed my other ones...8) ):

Building a car trailer.  I know this is quite on topic so if you object hit the 
delete key now...

Step one - find out whats out there for parts and supplies.  I bought the book 
how to design and build a trailer (part1 - further parts should be available in 
'95)  From that I got the names and address of a few axle companies.

So for about $250 each I can get an axle with 3500lbs capacity, with brakes (
drum to drum) and torsion suspension.  Brand new!  Not bad in my book.

After looking at a friend's design I decided on a 12ft flat trailer (I may put 
in a dovetail but not right away).  The toungue will be about 6ft ahead of the 
trailer.  I budgeted about 1000lbs for the trailer weight and tried to keep the 
load capacity close to 6000lbs (the axles being the limiting factor - in 
actuallity the tires/wheels will be....).

I initially considered 2x5 rectangular tubing - used a load factor of 3000lbs 
per end.  I would have 4 parralel beams down the length of the trailer - with 5 
beams transversing the trailer - for simplicity I was going to go with all 2X5 
tubing (.186 thick).  Looking for the right balance placing one axle in the 
center of the trailer put about 80lbs on the tongue of the trailer - for a 
trailer that weighs about 1000lbs that's just about right.  Loading a 3000lbs 
corvette (50/50 weight distribution and about 100" wheel base) would put the 
tongue weight closer to 365 lbs - with a 4000 lbs total weight - for such a 
long trailer this again should be about perfect...

Problems?  Well the tongue may hang a little low due to 2x5 rail - and the 13" 
high tire center line (ground clearance of 8" hopefully).  Strength?  the 
greatest unsupported overhang (rear of trailer) will have 4 beams- at about 40" 
 a quick stress analysis suggest this will support 4500lbs at the 40: point.  (
thats assuming 1.5 margin of safety - and half the total max load).

O.K. ready to build - time to get prices on steel
About 100ft of 2x5x.186 + 3 sheets of 4x8x.250 of diamond plate -
ABOUT $1000!!!!!!! Ouch!!!!!!

I'm either building a trailer that is way to heavy duty or just looking for the 
wrong materials.  Where to go from here?

Is there any source for trailer plans - preferably pre-tested ones?

Redesign - with only the 2x5X.186 (I choose this over 2x4x.250 - better 
resistance to bending and lighter - at least in one axis) as the main 
longitudinal rail and definitly something cheaper for the cross bars.  I've 
looked at C-channel - but for the same performance I would need really heafty C
-channel.  

The problems I encountered suggest that the trailer has too much steel in it.  
How does one go about accounting for steel plate decking?  Can i use thinner 
decking - the unsupport length of the decking will be 1.5 ft by 3 ft - this 
would have to support a tire.  Could I get away with 1/8"?  Or aluminum?  if I 
use steel and seam weld the length of the trailer how much smaller would I be 
able to go?

For stress analysis (I'm an electrical engineer not mechanical) I can calculate 
the moment of inertia (I) but don't know how to find the bending axis on a 
composite structure.  Anyone have a quick insight?  the structure in question 
would be the rectangular tube with plate steel welded to the top.

Dirk

[ I know something about trailers, but mostly from a practical point
of view.  From what you wrote above you seem to have the frame design
down pretty well, but you have forgotten the very large stiffening
effect that you can get with a railing, even a 4" one down the side
of the trailer.  You can make a simple truss and really stiffen things
up.  About the diamond plate; quarter-inch is overkill.  I have seen
many trailers with eighth-inch.  Yes, it sags, but who cares?  It
is still very tough.  Be sure to weld the top into one piece.

Go with those independent torsion-tube axles.  Be sure to get electric
brakes.  Consider welding EMT to the frame for running wiring.

You did not mention a hitch.  I will guess that you are running a
large ball.  Be sure to use a weight distribution setup.  

Be sure that you can mount a winch at the front of the trailer.
Further be sure that you can run the line under the trailer around to
the back and around a pully to get things off.

Putting stake pockets in is easy and can be very useful.  As can 
making provisions for holding motorcycles.

For a good design guideline I suggest that you go down to the local
gas stations and carefully examine the bed layout on a new aluminum
body slide-body ramp truck.  Most of the good ideas are used in these.
You might also want to look at some new trailers.  --FEP ]




From server0.dsea.com.dsea.com!hotrod@server0.dsea.com Thu Nov  3 18:55:00 1994
From: hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com
Subject: Re: Hotrod Digest
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: paraska@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Pete Paraska)
Content-Length: 1620

"Joe B. McGlynn (415) 354-2728"  wrote, 
on the hotrod list: 
>drill.  Once you have the heavy stuff off use 'metal 
>prep' (AKA: Phosphoric Acid).  Dilute according to the 
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^    
...and...
>directions and spend an hour or more scrubbing with the 
>metal prep and a scotchbrite pad.  This should kill and 
> rust you didn't sand off.  Galvaprep next, follow the 
                             ^^^^^^^^^^
Could Joe, or someone else, give us the maker, phone #, etc. for
the 'metal prep' and 'Galvaprep', along with any other like products?

I've used Eastwood's Oxysolv with good results.  It is, I believe, a
weak phosphoric acid with something else that removes rust and 
leaves a zinc phosphate coating on the steel.  

Is the metal prep just straight phosphoric acid, and the Galvaprep
something that leaves a zinc-? coating, doing what the Oxysolv does in
one step?  This would be advantageous, especially if the metal prep is
less dilute than the Oxysolv.  I've found that I would prefer a faster 
acting rust removal than Oxysolv provides, and that I would like to put
the zinc-? coating on only after all the rust is dissolved.

I'm looking to create a list of all the rust removal/zinc-? coating
chemicals available, so please send info on any you've used, by email
to me at paraska@oasys.dt.navy.mil.

Hmm.  I guess this is kind of off charter, since letting you car
rust lightens it, making it faster :).  If anyone doesn't want 
this thread continued, please say so.

Thanks,
Pete
~~~~ Pete (paraska@oasys.dt.navy.mil) /\ IZCC#15 /\ Laurel,Maryland~~~~



From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 16:11:48 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: TV: *Televised Events #94-42*
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bill Stoffel)
Content-Length: 11988

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

   Now ending its third year of weekly publication, TVE is a compilation 
of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers, tea leaves, 
my favorite bartender, and the nice folks at TNN.  A special thanks also 
to Curt Swinehart for providing me with info. on the many regional 
sports networks.  PLEASE confirm dates and times with your local 
listings before setting your VCRs.

   TVE will USUALLY be updated no later than every Friday morning and 
will be most accurate (or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If 
your favorite event is "tba'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 
day window.

   Thanks to EMI Communications, TVE listings are also available on "The 
Web" at URL  "http://www.emi.com/tve.html" where they will be archived 
for an indeterminate period of time.

   If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA) NETWORK*

AMA MOTOCROSS, TROY (T)               11/03    6:30-7:30PM      ESPN2
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (L)    11/03    8:00-9:00PM      HSE,
						     NESN,PASS,PSN,SUN
Raceline                              11/03    8:30-9:00PM      HTS
MOTORCYCLE RACING (T)                 11/03    9:00-10:00PM     HTS,
							 NESN,PASS,MSC
Motor Sports Hour                     11/03    10:00-11:00PM    EMPS,
					 HSE,HTS,NESN,PASS,PSN,SCP,SUN
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (SD)   11/03   11:00PM-12:00AM   EMPS,
				       HTS,PASS,PSN,PSNW,SCOH,SCP,SPTS
The Power & The Glory                 11/04    6:30-7:00AM      A&E
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/04    12:00-1:30PM     EMPS,
					    HTS,KBL,PSN,PSNW,SCNE,SCOH
MotoWorld II                          11/04    6:30-7:00PM      ESPN2
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/05    1:30-3:00AM      HSE
MotoWorld II                          11/05    2:30-3:00AM      ESPN2
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 11/05    7:00-7:30AM      MTV
Shadetree Mechanic (painting prep)    11/05    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
MotorWeek                             11/05    10:00-10:30AM    WGN
M. THOMPSON MOTORCYCLES, ANAHEIM (T)  11/05    1:30-2:00PM      ESPN2
NHRA, PRO BIKE CHALLENGE, READING (T) 11/05    2:00-2:30PM      ESPN2
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              11/05    2:00-2:30PM      TNN
Hot Rod 2                             11/05    2:30-3:00PM      ESPN2
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      11/05    2:30-3:00PM      TNN
INDY LIGHTS, VANCOUVER (T)            11/05    3:00-3:30PM      ESPN2
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               11/05    3:00-3:30PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (T)                11/05    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
Secrets Of Speed (Emo)                11/05    3:30-4:00PM      ESPN2
MotorWeek (ragtop VW)                 11/05    5:00-5:30PM      MPT
NASCAR, PIT CREW CHAMPIONSHIP (T)     11/05    5:00-5:30PM      TNN
IMSA SUPERCAR, SEBRING (T)            11/05    5:00-5:30PM      ESPN2
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, VANCOUVER (T)        11/05    5:30-6:00PM      ESPN2
IHRA MOTORCYCLES, MOROCCO (T)         11/05    6:00-6:30PM      ESPN2
Porsche Supercup Year In Review       11/05    6:30-7:00PM      ESPN2
M. THOMPSON MOTORCYCLES, LAS VEGAS (T)11/05    7:00-8:00PM      ESPN2
MotoWorld, 10th Anniversary Show      11/06    2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             11/06    3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
MotorWeek                             11/06    4:05-4:35AM      WJZ
FORMULA 1, JAPAN (SD)                 11/06    8:00-10:00AM   TSN,ESPN
Trucks And Tractor Power              11/06    9:00-9:30AM      TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty(old race boats11/06    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
N. Bonnett's Winners(Rusty & The King)11/06    10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              11/06    10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      11/06    11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           11/06   11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
NASCAR, PIT CREW CHAMPIONSHIP (T)     11/06    12:00-12:30PM    TNN
NHRA, PRO BIKE CHALLENGE (T)          11/06    12:00-12:30PM    ESPN2
GOLD COAST 300, LAS VEGAS (T)         11/06    12:30-1:30PM     ESPN2
N. Bonnett's Winners(Rusty & The King)11/06    2:30-3:00PM      TNN
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/06    3:00-4:30PM      SCNY
Trucks And Tractor Power              11/06    3:00-3:30PM      TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               11/06    3:30-4:00PM      TNN
PORSCHE SUPERCUP, PORTUGAL (T)        11/06    4:00-4:30PM      ESPN
IMSA SUPERCAR, PHOENIX (T)            11/06    4:30-5:00PM      ESPN
SODA, CRANDON (T)                     11/06    5:00-6:00PM      ESPN
SPORTS CAVALCADE (T)                  11/06    5:00-6:30PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (painting prep)    11/06    7:00-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              11/06    7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      11/06    8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           11/06    8:30-9:00PM      TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty(old race boats11/06    10:00-10:30PM    TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              11/06    10:30-11:00PM    TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      11/06    11:00-11:30PM    TNN
FORMULA 1, JAPAN (SD)                 11/06   11:12-2:12AM      CBCE
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               11/06   11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
RaceDay Update w/Pat Patterson (L)    11/07    12:00-12:05AM    TNN
WoO, KNOXVILLE NATIONALS, PART 2 (T)  11/07    12:05-1:30AM     TNN
FORMULA 1, JAPAN (T)                  11/07    12:37-3:37AM     CBCM
FORMULA 1, JAPAN (T)                  11/07    1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              11/07    1:30-2:00AM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      11/07    2:00-2:30AM      TNN
NHRA, PRO BIKE CHALLENGE (T)          11/07    2:30-3:00AM      ESPN2
MotorWeek                             11/07    3:00-3:30AM      WGN
FORMULA 1, JAPAN (T)                  11/07    3:30-6:30AM      CBCW
The Power & The Glory                 11/07    6:30-7:00AM      A&E
AMA MOTOCROSS, BUDDS CREEK (T)        11/07    5:00-6:00PM      ESPN2
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/07    8:00-9:30PM      PASS
NHRA, PRO STOCK, ENGLISHTOWN (T)      11/08    11:00-11:30PM    ESPN
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, POMONA (T)        11/09    1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
FORMULA II SUPERCUP, CONCORD (T)      11/09    1:00-2:00AM      SPTS
MotoWorld                             11/09    5:30-6:00PM      ESPN
AMA MOTOCROSS, MILLVILLE (T)          11/09    6:30-7:30PM      ESPN2
SpeedWeek                             11/09    11:00-11:30PM    ESPN
M.T.OFF-ROAD (MOTORCYCLES) (T)        11/10    3:00-3:30PM      ESPN2
Hot Rod 2                             11/10    3:30-4:00PM      ESPN2
WORLD SUPERBIKE, SPAIN (T)            11/10    4:00-5:00PM      EMPS,
							PASS,PSN,SCOH
MotoWorld 2                           11/10    6:30-7:00PM      ESPN2
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (L)    11/10    8:00-9:00PM      HSE,
						KBL,PSN,SCOH,SPTS,SUN
WORLD SUPERBIKE, SPAIN (T)            11/10    8:00-9:00PM      EMPS,
						 KBL,PSN,SCOH,SCP,SUN
MotorWeek (Eclipse & Volvo 960)       11/10    8:30-9:00PM      MPT
WORLD SUPERBIKE, ENGLAND (T)          11/10    9:00-10:00PM     SCNE
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/10    10:30-11:30PM    NESN
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (SD)   11/10   11:00PM-12:00AM   EMPS,
					    HTS,KBL,PASS,PSN,SCOH,SCP
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/11    12:00-1:00AM     SCOH
Checkered Flag (F1 @ Suzuka)          11/11    1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
WORLD SUPERBIKE, SPAIN (T)            11/11    12:00-1:00PM     HSE
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/11    1:30-2:30PM      NESN
IHRA, WINTERNATIONALS, DARLINGTON (T) 11/11    6:30-7:30PM      ESPN2
NHRA, PRO BIKE CHALLENGE (T)          11/11    7:30-8:00PM      ESPN2
WORLD SUPERBIKE, ENGLAND (T)          11/11   11:00PM-12:00AM   HSE
IHBA DRAG BOATS, CHOWCHILLA (T)       11/12    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
MotoWorld 2                           11/12    2:30-3:00AM      ESPN2
Shadetree Mechanic (clutch adjustment)11/12    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
ARCA, ATLANTA (L)                     11/12    1:00-3:00PM      ESPN2
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              11/12    2:00-2:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      11/12    2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               11/12    3:00-3:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            11/12    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek (Eclipse & Volvo 960)       11/12    5:00-5:30PM      MPT
FORMULA 1, AUSTRALIA (L)              11/12   10:20PM-12:30AM   TSN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS----------

WINSTON CUP, ATLANTA (L)              11/13    12:30PM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, AUSTRALIA (SD)             11/13    7:50-10:00AM     ESPN
NASCAR SUPERTRUCKS, TUCSON (L)        11/20    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NHRA, POMONA (T)                      11/21    12:00-1:30AM     TNN
NASCAR WINSTON WEST, TUCSON (L)       11/27    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NASCAR, WINTER HEAT, TUCSON (L)       12/04    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NASCAR, WINTER HEAT, TUCSON (L)       12/11    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NASCAR, WINTER HEAT, TUCSON (L)       12/18    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NHRA, POMONA (T)                      12/31    4:00-5:30PM      TNN
NASCAR, WINTER HEAT, TUCSON (L)       01/08    5:00-7:00PM      TNN

[1] CBC also carries all F1 and most IndyCar races.  The races are 
usually broadcast on a tape-delayed basis at 11:37PM ET on the evening 
following the race.  I understand that it is not uncommon for CBC to 
delay the broadcast as much as an hour beyond the 11:37PM start, so 
please use extra caution if you plan to tape the race.  If you have 
access to it, and your French isn't too rusty, you may also want to 
check out RDS.  RDS broadcasts every F1 race and most IndyCar races, and 
their F1 coverage usually also includes a 30 minute prerace show.  RDS 
and TSN generally use the ESPN feed, while CBC generally uses the BBC 
feed.  The exception to these rules is the Canadian Grand Prix.  Only 
CBC and SRC have the rights to the Canadian GP.  Thanks to Pierre 
Mailhot and Tak Ariga for info. on coverage in Canada.

* Network Designations

A&E      Arts & Entertainment Network
AMC      American Movie Classics
CBCE     Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (East)
CBCW     Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (West)
CBCM     Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (Montreal)
EMPS     Regional Sports Network (New York)
ENC      Encore
ESPN     ESPN Sports Network
ESPN2    ESPN Sports Network 2
HBO      Home Box Office
HSE      Regional Sports Network (Houston)
HTS      Regional Sports Network (Baltimore & DC)
KBL      Regional Sports Network (Pittsburg)
MAX      Cinemax
MPT      Maryland Public TV
MSC      Midwest Sports Channel
MSG      Madison Square Garden
MTV      Music(?) Television
PASS     Regional Sports Network (Detroit)
PRTK     Regional Sports Network (LA)
PSN      Prime Sports Network
PSN2     Prime Sports Network (Midwest & Mountains)
PSNW     Prime Sports Network (Northwest)
NESN     New England Sports Network
QVC      home shopping
RDS      Reseau Des Sports (Canada - French)
SCC      Sports Channel Chicago
SCNE     Sports Channel New England
SCNY     Sports Channel New York
SCOH     Sports Channel Ohio
SCP      Sports Channel Pacific
SHOW     Showtime
SPTS     Sport South Network
SRC      Societe Radio-Canada (French)
SUN      Sunshine Network (Regional Sports Network, SE USA)
TBS      Atlanta "Super Station"
TNN      The Nashville Network
TSN      The Sports Network (Canada - English)
USA      USA Network
WBFF     Baltimore
WDCA     Washington, DC
WGN      Chicago "Super Station"
WJZ      Baltimore
WOR      New York "Super Station"
WRC      Washington, DC
-------


From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 16:21:27 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: 400 Chevy head gaskets
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X-From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Content-Length: 205


 I'm putting together a +.060 400 small block Chevy.  What's the
currently favored head gasket for bored 400s?
                                                                                           


From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 16:26:15 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: re: Re: hot thermostat & efficiency (fwd)
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X-From: David Wright 
Content-Length: 1327

>| Well, you just described a Miller cycle engine, except the intake 
>| gets closed
>| _late_, so you don't have to expand and contract the mix an extra 
>| time, which
>| loses some heat.  This means some of the mix gets pushed back out 
>| the intake
>| valve before it closes.  In practical terms, this adds a lot of 
>| wierd flow
>| patterns in the intake, and can really confuse a carb, which is 
>| why it's only
>| now being implemented in production engines with computer 
>| controlled injection.
>
>Production engines?  Who's building them?
>
>--steve

I think it's the Mazda Millenia or something like that.  Don't know if anybody
else is doing it.  I just read an article in one of the design trade magazines
about it, they're using 8:1 effective compression ratio and 10:1 effective
expansion ratio, but making up for lost power (compressing less than optimum
effectively gives a smaller displacement) by supercharging and intercooling.
Problem is, doesn't the blower bump the effective CR back up to what it would
have been to start with?  Don't remember the power rating, I think it was in
the 200hp range from a smallish V6 with 20/29 EPA rating.  Not fantastic
results, but not bad for a first cut.  I think the model was introduced last
year.  (Lots of "I thinks" in that paragraph, huh? :-)

David Wright


From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 16:32:12 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: Re: Re: hot thermostat & efficiency
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Content-Length: 435


-> > On a related subject, I know that increasing the compression ratio
-> increases > the efficiency of an engine, but I don't remember why.
-> Anyone?

> T2 increases.

 It's sort of a juggling act between the compression ratio, the
camshaft, and volumetric efficiency.  Two stroke engines make more power
by trading compression for breathing.  Four stroke engines do the same
by trading actual trapped compression for overlap.
  


From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 16:44:57 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: distributor installation
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X-From: Tom Carver 
Content-Length: 2316

I just wanted to point out that taking distributors in and out doesn't always
work the easy way.  On Chevys, the distributor shaft rotates about 1/8th turn
when you pull it out because of the bevel on the gears.  Sometimes, the oil
pump drive shaft can move a little making it to seem impossible to get the
distributor back in the way it's supposed to.  Try to make careful notes
about where the rotor is pointing and where the vacuum advance canister is
pointing before you pull out the distributor.  When you put it back in place,
hold the distributor body in place, but rotate the rotor ~1/8 turn so that it
spins into the right place when the gears engage.  If the oil pump shaft has
moved, it's possible to get the distributor in one or two gear teeth to the
left or right which will throw the timing off by a mile.  If this happens,
then you pull out the distributor again and use a super long flat blade
screwdriver (or an oil pump primer) to turn it a little until the distributor
and rotor drop in to their original positions (according to your carefully
drawn diagrams).  It helps to climb on top of the engine and look down into
the distributor hole with a flashlight to be able to see the oil pump
driveshaft.

Another thing that's kind of a pain about Chevy distributor installations is
that if you put on a "High Performance" intake manifold, you may not be able
to put the distributor in the same orientation that it came from the factory.
Sometimes the vacuum advance can hits something, or the dwell window is
inaccessible.  On my '69 Camaro, for instance, I rotated my entire
distributor clockwise to make the dwell window more accessible and to give me
more lattitude for timing adjustment -- The easy way to do it was to just
move the spark plug cables over one position all the way around.  Just
remember to make notes if you do something like this, so you won't go crazy
someday trying to figure out what you did (when you've forgotten all about
it).

Not all Chevys have the distributor pointing in the same direction -- some of
the old Z-28s and stuff had different orientation because of carburetor
clearance or something.

Most cars I've had have happened to be Chevys -- I don't have much experience
with Fords or Mopars.  Is it any easier to change distributors on Fords or
Mopars?

Tom


From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 16:47:29 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: FW: Re: Hotrod Digest
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: "Ciciora Steve" 
Content-Length: 489

>Hmm.  I guess this is kind of off charter, since letting you car
>rust lightens it, making it faster :).  If anyone doesn't want 
>this thread continued, please say so.

  I.M.H.O., if people answer questions, there must be interest in the subject,
and I would hope that this makes it 'on charter' enough.  I'm interested in
hearing about _any_ Do It Yourself aspects of hotroding, including body work. 
I vote continue the thread as long as questions get answered :-)
- Steven Ciciora



From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 16:52:30 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: re: intake swap
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X-From: Mark Leavitt 
Content-Length: 4259



On Tue, 1 Nov 1994, Hotrod List wrote:

> hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List) Wrote: 
> | 
> | Hi, A friend of mine wants me to help him swap his intake 
> | manifold.  All the
> | times I've done them (ok 3 times), I usually changed cams at the 
> | same time. 
> | My question is can I just pull the distributor (chevy engine) and 
> | put it back
> | the same way or do I have to set it from no.1 cylinder?
> | 
> | wes
> 
> In the one car I did this on ('78 monte carlo w/ HEI) the distributor only 
> mates with the shaft in two ways (correct and 180 degrees off).  So if you 
> mark where the distributor body is wrt to the manifold, and which direction 
> the rotor points, you should be OK.
> 
> --steve
> 

You were lucky, it isn't quite that simple.

The distributor shaft must "match up" at two different places inside the 
block.  First it must mesh with the CORRECT tooth setting on the cam shaft.
This is VITAL and is what "times" it to the valve operation.  
Secondly, as it drops the last 1/2 inch into place, the bar in the bottom 
of the distributor shaft must drop into the corresponding slot in the end of 
the oil pump drive shaft.  This is where you get the idea it can only be 
"right on" or 180 out.  Not true!
The truth is, you can drop the distributor shaft over the end of the oil 
pump shaft with the rotor pointed somewhat in the right direction and still 
have the drive gears meshed one or more teeth OFF.  The result is an engine 
that is out of time and runs extremely badly or won't even start.  
Simply rotating the distributor in place (like you do when setting the timing)
will not fix this problem.  It must be pulled out and re-installed, meshing 
the drive gears correctly while still aligning with the oil pump shaft.

Your best bet is, before you pull the distributor, rotate the engine until 
the rotor points to #1 (mark it if you like) and the timing mark on the 
damper is at TDC, then pull the distributor.  Just like when you changed 
the cam.  

The drive gears on the distributor and cam are helical cut (not straight) 
so when you pull the distributor, the shaft will turn a bit as the distributor
is lifted out.  This will also turn the oil drive shaft in the bottom of the 
distributor slightly and leave it sitting in a position that is usually not 
lined up correctly for re-installation of the distributor.

When you drop the distributor back in, you will notice that you have to 
start with the rotor pointed slightly "off" from where you want it to end up
because of the helical gears mentioned.  The rotor will turn a half inch 
or so as the distributor drops into the block and meshes with the cam.  

A little trial and error will show you where to set the rotor before you 
drop the distributor in.  The trick is to have the bar in the bottom of 
the distributor align with the slot in the top of the oil pump shaft as the 
distributor reaches bottom.  In fact, the distributor will not "seat" 
clear down unless the oil pump shaft IS correctly aligned.  

If the distributor drops completely in (seats) and the rotor lines up with #1,  
you are home free.  
But.. as often happens, if the distributor drops ALL BUT THE LAST HALF INCH 
and the rotor lines up, BUMMER.  You have to pull it out again. 
(Look down the distributor hole in the block with a flashlight and you will 
see the end of the oil pump shaft)  Turn the oil pump shaft with a long 
screwdriver just a bit in the direction it needs to go to line up. 
You may have to do this a couple of times before the distributor seats.  
Then time the ignition with a light as usual.

Good luck....

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
      ____________________                      
    /        (____)        \                   MARK LEAVITT
  /\________________________/\                  1964 VETTE
/______________\_/_____________\
\  .------------------------.  /      Lockheed Idaho Technologies Co
|\  \______________________/  /|      Idaho National Engineering Labs
| (0________|_1964_|________0) |            
|     |--'            `--|     |            mol@pmafire.inel.gov
`-----'                  `-----'
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=







From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 16:57:12 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: bullshit alert
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Content-Length: 1110


 I was flipping through the July/August issue of Summit's catalog before
throwing it out.  In the "Tech Tips" section they have an mini-article
called "Cheap Gas Wins Races."

"Your racing engine really doesn't care how much you paid for your
gasoline.  All it cares about is if the gas has sufficient octane to
prevent detonation."

   True.


"In fact, giving your engine more octane than it needs may cause power
to drop off - as octane increases, burn rate decreases."

  Lord preserve us, now Summit is pushing that line of bullshit.  Octane
rating has NOTHING to do with burn rate!  Where do these people keep
getting this stuff?  Can't they look it up and check before publishing
this crap?!


"For example, burning high dollar, high octane racing gas in a 9:1
compression engine results in a bunch of unburned hydrocarbons dumping
out of the headers."

  Say what, Bubba?  That doesn't even make sense.


 Now I know where the wreck.autos.tech goobs get this drivel, anyway.
                                                                                                                            


From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 17:04:44 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: Re:  Drag Strip Q's (long)
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X-From: jca@fibercom.fibercom.com (James C. Akers)
Content-Length: 5465

Hope this doesn't push the hotrod fringes too badly...

Dave Dabay says:
> 	Way back when, circa 1973, all the brackets did 1/4 mile
> 	seems that there is a whole lot of 1/8 mile activity??

For some reason, 1/8 mile tracks have become very popular (especially
around here- Southwest Virginia.)  One guy summed it up 
"cars are just going too damn fast in the quarter now".  
I would guess that insurance is cheaper on the 1/8 mile track, not to
mention significantly shorter shut-down lanes.

> 	This is an 1/8 mile track. Not a lot of room to ever make it into a 
> 	1/4 mile track.  Good Bad or doesn't matter.??

Again, at first I was turned off to the 1/8 mile tracks, but I have 
grown to like them.  It really changes your perspective from brute
power to launch technique.  Remember that the shut-down lane
would have to be _much_ longer if the track were 1/4 mile.

> 	The current owners are getting out for health reasons, he has
> 	had several operations, the price is affordable, but almost
> 	to good to be true.  Any recent news of tracks sold/leased or
> 	built??

Natural Bridge just became operational in '93.  Really nice track-
new facilities but nothing really fancy.  It hooks really nice, partly
because the concrete launch pad extends out past the 60' mark!

> 	They have afull recent set of Chrondek timers (again they were the 
> 	best in the late 70's) trees, etc..  good/bad ??? What woudl be
> 	better.

I have to defer this one...  if it keeps accurate times (dial, R.T.,
60', and 1/8 mile ET and MPH) and prints legible time slips and
works reliably; it's good enough for me!  :-)

> 	It is a small dragway, usually 60-100 cars only on saturdays.  What
> 	are some descriptions of the tracks you guys play on??  Acreage,
> 	spectators, bleachers, concessions, pit area??

You aren't talking about Elk Creek in Wytheville, are you?  That is
a very comfortable track.  Some tracks are very high-profile like
Bristol: only run a couple times a year and charge a fargin' arm
and a leg.  Local tracks like we have around here are good for the
weekend warrior racers, and though you probably won't make a killing
operating the track, as long as you are reasonable with your entry fees,
and you maintain the track, you will have a dedicated cult of racers.
Bleachers are pretty standard- at the launch area and around the finish.
Some of the nicer pit areas I have seen will have a pit, a water station,
a weigh station, and even a gas pump (to sell you racing gas $$$), but
most racers I know are happy with room to park their tow vehicle
and a reasonable return road system.  One of the less pleasant tracks
around here is all dirt in the pit area.  Yak.  Really, you can't 
have too much slow-down room or pit area- the more acreage the better.

> 	What special things do you look for in a track to call it home??  Good
>	food??  Large Payouts??  What else??

Ok here is my wish list:
1. A _really_ cheap test-n-tune or "street match" night 
like $2 bucks to run all you want, or hell charge $.50 a pass...  
and $5 to spectate.  Straight heads up tree all night.  
(The street racers around here would _LOVE_ a facility like this.)
Pay gas money to the quickest street car for the night...

2. Again, lots of shut-down room and nice (not dirty) pit area -
and good lighting if you are running at night!  

3. Reasonable fee/payout ratios.  Some tracks around here are obviously
making a killing.  When you pay $20 to enter the street class and
there is only a $100 payout and 40 cars are in the class something is
obviously screwed!  Give the quickest-ET car in each class a free
pass to get in the following week., etc.

4. None of this "family day" shit.  Maybe it brings in people, but
who wants to stop the drag racing to watch a bunch of drunks bust
their asses down the track?

5. You MUST have a nice, long burnout area also.  I have seen more
than one _really_ nice car get creamed in the ass by a car in the
bleach-box with a stuck throttle!  The last thing you need when you
are staged is to worry about some shmo rear-ending you while doing
his burnout!

6. This really goes back to #5: You _MUST_ have a competent 
tech-inspector before letting cars on the track.  I have seen some
junk that wouldn't even begin to pass state inspection go haulin
down the track!  There is a fine line between ensuring a safe car,
and following the rulebook to the dot.  Any car I wouldn't trust 
going around the block sure as hell wouldn't make it on the track.

7. If you wanted to get really slick (though it probably wouldn't
pay off) you could work out a deal with a local auto parts supplier
to build a store nearby or even on premises, or even a groovy 
oldies drive-in style restaurant to ensure the $$$ flows through 
the winter.  Hell, if you could race _AND_ hang out, that would be
the ultimate.  :-)

> I am aware of the risks/liabilities and we have a very good accountant, 
> insurance agent and lawyer.  Any other big things I have forgotten??

Don't forget to buy a local politician or two to quell the inevitable 
pissed-off-over-the-noise-and-smell neighbors you will have.

> Please give me your thoughts....
> dave

Hope this helps Dave, and I am very interested in finding out more...
like how much $$$ does it take to buy a drag strip?????

jC.
_________________________________________________________
James C. Akers         FiberCom, Inc.        Roanoke, VA
jca@fibercom.com     uunet!fibercom!jca     (703)342-6700


From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 19:15:13 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: hotrod trailer
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: Steve=Ravet%Prj=Eng%PCPD=Hou@bangate.compaq.com
Content-Length: 352

Well, it barfed the first time I tried to send this, I'll try again.....


hotrod@server0.dsea.com.dsea.com (Hotrod List) Wrote:
[deleted trailer design]
 
Check the archives of this list.  This topic has been covered sometime since 
march of this year, maybe May-June or so?  I seem to recall someone 
recommending mobile home axles...

--steve
 
 



From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 19:40:44 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: Marine parts
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: "Fontana Peter" 
Content-Length: 827

Are boat discussions out of charter?

[ Probably not, as long as there is hotrod-relevant information.  This
particular post is thin.  For example, I might consider my experiences
running rectangular and oval port heads on dual 454s in a 30' 
Wellcraft a bit more interesting.   I'll pull the plug on the boats
if too many folks send mail.  --FEP ]

I'd like to know what it would take to pull the Chevy 2.5L 4 out of my 1896
16' Century Fury bowrider and install a 302 Ford (I already have the 302
that's on the reject side of a car motor swap.  I know I'll need exhaust
manifolds and motor mounts.  Is there an adaptor for my Mercruiser Alpha 1
outdrive?  Is there an internal gearing change?  Is there intelligent life in
Washington D.C.?

Thanks, and if this is off charter, then is there a motor boat list or News
group?


From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov  7 19:52:05 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: Re: 400 Head Gasket
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: "Paul A. Richer" 
Content-Length: 786

>
> I'm putting together a +.060 400 small block Chevy.  What's the
>currently favored head gasket for bored 400s?
>>       

What a coincidence, I just got on this list (been gone since the demise of
alt.hotrod) and this is just what I'm doing, building a +.060 400 SBC.  For
what its worth, I am using FelPro PermaTorque head gaskets.  Gets a little
narrow between the cylinders, doesn't it?

[ alt.hotrod is being posted from this site!  If you cannot see it,
tell me, but not all of you at once..... --FEP ]

       ________
      /______ /    
            //          Paul Richer
        __ //_          paulr@lsid.hp.com
       /__ __/          Internet Z-Car Club Member #64
         //             '71 240Z <- 350 Chevy
        //______        '72 510
       /_______/        


From hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Thu Nov 10 18:22:47 1994
From: hotrod@netcom.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@netcom.com
Subject: Mailer trouble
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: hotrod (Hotrod List)
Content-Length: 127


Our service provider has made an error routing our mail.  You cannot
mail to this account, but will be able to do so soon.  


From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov 28 22:26:51 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Subject: Is anybody out there?
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: met@pine.cse.nau.edu (MTN-KAT)
Content-Length: 333

Yes, there is somebody here.  Although I posted that there would be
some service problems, I never expected quite this.  We have been 
essentially warring with both Netcom and IPT for about a month in 
an effort to get things fixed.  This problem has been put to rest, at
least for a while.  Again, I am sorry for the ills.  --FEP



From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov 28 22:27:09 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Content-Length: 2581

No Subject Line
Reply-to: hotrod@dsea.com
Posted-Date: Monday, Nov 28 1994 09:11:12
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Approved: frank@dsea.com
X-From: frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)

From frank  Mon Nov 28 09:08:54 1994
From: frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
To: hotrod@server0.dsea.com
Subject: Chevelle notes
Content-Length: 1917


I ordered the new disk brakes, spindles, Delalum bushings and tubular 
control arms from Global West, just as I said I might.  I went to Las 
Vegas to pick them up and found them boxes completely trashed -- UPS
strikes again.  UPS was not the only agent at fault, Global West had
sent them air!  And then charged me for it!  After spending quite a
while on the phone, Doug of GW and I worked out something equitable.
My troubles have continued frome there, though.

Perhaps the oldest common accident in the book happened when I was
putting the '64 up on jack stands in my garage.  While jacking up the
front end, the floor jack cup slipped off the cross member and landed
squarely on the oil pan of my new ZZ3, giving it a slight dent.  Not
quite small enought not to be a problem, though.  Rather than pulling
the pan and beating this dent out, I am tempted to clean the pan,
epoxy a few T nuts onto it and try to pop out the dent.  Has anybody
had good luck doing this?  If this method fails, does anybody have a 
few general thoughts about de-denting SBC oil pans?

As it turns out, I have to lift the engine anyway.  The new Delalum 
bearings have to be pressed into the lower control arms.  The lower
control arm bolts do not come out with headers installed.  Hooker
Super Comp headers require motor mount removal for most anything at
all....  It sure is a good thing I can walk to work.

I have a growing pile of original '64 Chevelle parts.  If anybody needs 
these, let me know
   - 283 SBC minus heads and crank.  Cheap cheap cheap.  GM SBC
      shipping crate included.
   - front and rear anti-roll bars.
   - complete front drum brake setup.  Master cylinder, lines,
      spindles, tie rod ends, ball joints, brakes, drums, upper
      control arms.
   - variuous interior trim pieces.  Original interior 'chrome' trim
      from Mailbu plus some repro stuff.
   - a set of wheels.
   - other stuff




From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov 28 22:30:34 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Content-Length: 3312

No Subject Line
Reply-to: hotrod@dsea.com
Posted-Date: Monday, Nov 28 1994 08:45:45
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Approved: frank@dsea.com
X-From: hotrod (Hotrod List)


This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list, hotrod@dsea.com.  

------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dsea.com is chartered to provide a forum for
people interested in high performance vehicles to exchange ideas and
discuss topics of current interest. This list is chartered as broadly
as possible consistent with  noise supression.  I believe it to be more
constructive to list unacceptable topics and behavior rather than
trying to ennumerate permissible behavior.

Unacceptable topics:  

*   Discussions about stock street cars.
*   Discussions about magic elixirs such as Slick 50 with no technical basis.
*   Ford vs Chevy vs ... bashing.
*   Foreign or domestic car bashing.
*   Purely Cosmetic issues concerning stock street cars.  (Buyer's guide
      to fuzzy dice/air fresheners, for example.)
*   Usenet-style flaming of any sort.

Explicitly acceptable is any discussion regarding increasing the
performance of any vehicle.   "For Sale" and other commercial messages,
tastefully done, are permitted.  Please, no hype.

To subscribe to this list, send email to hotrod-request@dsea.com.
Please be sure to include a valid address, one without exclamation
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To be dropped from the list, mail to hotrod-request@dsea.com.

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meaningful subject line.  Inquiries, and other administrivia should be
addressed to frank@dsea.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of people ask if they are missing articles or if they have been 
unsubscribed from the list.  There are easy answers to these questions.
Each article is assigned a sequential serial number that is contained
in the mail header X-sequence:  If you see missing numbers, you know
you have missed articles.  

The only two reasons anyone is ever unsubscribed from the list is 
  a) if that person asks or
  b) if mail to an address bounces a lot.  

Due to the way mail agents handle undeliverable mail, I get gobs of
bounced messages.  That combined with the volume of the list means I
must remove an address on the first round of bouncing.  If you are on
an Internet-based machine that uses SMTP, being down for even a short
time will result in bouncing.  UUCP sites seem to have about a day of
cushion.  Simply send a new subscription request to rejoin.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is an archive service, and a general file retreival service
available.  If your message has a subject line that begins 
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The archives I currently have consist of old articles put in a digest
format.  Articles are grouped by month.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Mon Nov 28 22:31:05 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Subject: TV: *Televised Events #94-45*
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (Bill Stoffel)
Content-Length: 10204

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

   Now ending its third year of weekly publication, TVE is a compilation 
of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers, tea leaves, 
my favorite bartender, and the nice folks at TNN.  A special thanks to 
Curt Swinehart for providing me with info. on the many regional sports 
networks.  PLEASE confirm dates and times with your local listings 
before setting your VCRs.

   TVE will usually be updated no later than every Friday morning and 
will be most accurate (or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If 
your favorite event is "tba'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 
day window.

   Thanks to EMI Communications, TVE listings are also available on the 
World-Wide-Web at URL  "http://www.emi.com/tve.html" where they will be 
archived for an indeterminate period of time.

   If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA) NETWORK*

FORMULA II SUPERCUP, BRADENTON (T)    11/25    12:00-1:00PM     MSC
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 11/26    7:00-7:30AM      MTV
Shadetree Mechanic (rocker panels)    11/26    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
MotorWeek                             11/26    10:00-10:30AM    WGN
MotorWeek                             11/26    12:30-1:00PM     WUSA
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              11/26    2:00-2:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      11/26    2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Movie: Six Pack                       11/26    2:40-4:30PM      MAX
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               11/26    3:00-3:30PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, ROCKINGHAM (T)           11/26    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
FORMULA II SUPERCUP, BRADENTON (T)    11/26    4:00-5:00PM      SCNY
MotorWeek (Jag XJ & Ram Club Cab)     11/26    5:00-5:30PM      MPT
MotoWorld                             11/27    2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
MotorWeek                             11/27    2:35-3:05AM      WJZ
MotoWorld                             11/27    7:30-8:00AM      ESPN
Trucks And Tractor Power              11/27    9:00-9:30AM      TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty               11/27    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Neil Bonnett's Winners                11/27    10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              11/27    10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      11/27    11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           11/27   11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
SCORE, BAJA 500 (T)                   11/27    12:00-1:00PM     ESPN2
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/27    1:30-3:00PM      SUN
Neil Bonnett's Winners                11/27    2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              11/27    3:00-3:30PM      TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               11/27    3:30-4:00PM      TNN
SODA OFF-ROAD, CRANDON (T)            11/27    4:00-5:00PM      ESPN2
NASCAR WINSTON WEST, TUCSON (L)       11/27    5:00-6:30PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (rocker panels)    11/27    7:00-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              11/27    7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      11/27    8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           11/27    8:30-9:00PM      TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty               11/27    10:00-10:30PM    TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              11/27    10:30-11:00PM    TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      11/27    11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               11/27   11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
1994 Phoenix Southwest highlights     11/28    12:00-1:30AM     TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              11/28    1:30-2:00AM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      11/28    2:00-2:30AM      TNN
WERA GRAND NATIONAL, ATLANTA (T)      11/28    3:00-4:00AM      SCOH
WERA GRAND NATIONAL, ATLANTA (T)      11/28    5:00-6:00AM      EMPS,
			 KBL,MSG,PASS,PSN,PSN2,PSNW,SCNE,SCOH,SCP,SUN
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/28    12:00-1:30PM     EMPS,
				    HTS,KBL,MSG,PASS,PRTK,PSN,SCP,SUN
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, SPRINGFIELD (T)   11/28    5:00-6:00PM      ESPN2
SCORE, BAJA 500 (T)                   11/28    7:30-8:30PM      ESPN2
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 11/28    11:30PM-12:30AM  SCNY
NHRA, TOP FUEL CLASSIC, POMONA (T)    11/29    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 11/29    9:00-10:00AM     SCNY
FORMULA II SUPERCUP, BRADENTON (T)    11/29   11:00AM-12:00PM   SCNY
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, SACRAMENTO (T)    11/29    6:30-7:30PM      ESPN2
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 11/29    7:00-8:00PM      SCOH
FORMULA II SUPERCUP, BRADENTON (T)    11/29    10:00-11:00PM    SPTS
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, POMONA (T)        11/29    6:30-7:30PM      ESPN2
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/30    7:00-8:30PM      SCP
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 11/30    9:30-11:00PM     SCNY
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 12/01    2:00-3:30AM      SCNY
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 12/01    3:00-4:30AM      EMPS,
					HSE,KBL,MSG,PASS,PSN,SCNE,SCP
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 12/01    10:00-11:30AM    SCNY
WORLD SUPERBIKES, PHILLIP ISLAND (T)  12/01    2:00-3:00PM      EMPS,
		     KBL,HTS,MSG,PASS,PRTK,PSN,PSN2,PSNW,SCOH,SCP,SUN
Challenge of the Champions            12/01    3:00-3:30PM      KBL
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 12/01    3:00-4:00PM      EMPS,
				    HSE,HTS,MSG,PASS,PRTK,PSN,SCP,SUN
WORLD SUPERBIKES, PHILLIP ISLAND (T)  12/01    4:30-5:30PM      SCNE
FORMULA II SUPERCUP, BRADENTON (T)    12/01    5:00-6:00PM      HTS
MotoWorld                             12/01    5:30-6:00PM      ESPN
WORLD SUPERBIKES, PHILLIP ISLAND (T)  12/01    8:00-9:00PM      EMPS,
						    KBL,PSN,PSN2,SCNE
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 12/01    8:00-9:00PM      SCP
Race Line                             12/01    8:30-9:00PM      HTS
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 12/01    9:00-10:00PM     EMPS,
					  KBL,PRTK,PSN,PSN2,SCNE,SCOH
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 12/01    10:00-11:00PM    HTS,
							   PASS,PSNW
WORLD SUPERBIKES, PHILLIP ISLAND (T)  12/01   11:00PM-12:00AM   SCOH
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 12/01   11:30PM-12:30AM NESN,SCC
WORLD SUPERBIKES, PHILLIP ISLAND (T)  12/02    12:00-1:00AM     PRTK
FORMULA II SUPERCUP, PENSACOLA (T)    12/02    12:30-1:30AM     PASS
NASCAR, Year In Review                12/02    12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
FORMULA II SUPERCUP, BRADENTON (T)    12/02    1:00-2:00AM      SPTS
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, OK. CITY (T)      12/02    4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 12/02    4:00-5:00PM      NESN
SpeedWeek                             12/02    8:30-9:00PM      ESPN
NASCAR Awards Banquet (L)             12/02    9:00-11:00PM     ESPN
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 12/02    10:00-11:00PM    SCNY
NASCAR Shop Talk                      12/02    11:00-11:30PM    ESPN
SpeedWeek                             12/03    3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
NASCAR Awards Banquet (T)             12/03    4:00-6:00AM      ESPN
Shadetree Mechanic(crankshaft install.12/03    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
IROC, Year In Review                  12/03    1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              12/03    2:00-2:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      12/03    2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               12/03    3:00-3:30PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, PHOENIX (T)              12/03    3:30PM           TNN
CHECKERED FLAG SERIES, MODIFIEDS (T)  12/03    4:00-6:00PM      MSC
SHELBY PRO SERIES (T)                 12/03    6:00-7:00PM      SCOH
MONTEREY HISTORIC (T)                 12/03    6:30-8:00PM      EMPS,
					       KBL,PSN,PSN2,PSNW,SPTS
FORMULA II SUPERCUP, PENSACOLA (T)    12/03    7:00-8:00PM      SCOH

		  ----------COMING EVENTS----------

NASCAR SOUTHWEST TOUR, TUCSON (L)     12/04    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NASCAR SUPERTRUCKS, TUCSON (L)        12/11    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NASCAR LATE MODEL STOCKS, TUCSON (L)  12/18    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NHRA, POMONA (T)                      12/31    4:00-5:30PM      TNN
NASCAR, WINTER HEAT, TUCSON (L)       01/08    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NASCAR, WINTER HEAT, TUCSON (L)       01/15    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NASCAR, WINTER HEAT, TUCSON (L)       01/22    5:00-7:00PM      TNN
NHRA, WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (L)     02/05    7:30PM           TNN

* Network Designations

A&E      Arts & Entertainment Network
AMC      American Movie Classics
CBCE     Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (East)
CBCW     Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (West)
CBCM     Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (Montreal)
EMPS     Regional Sports Network (New York)
ENC      Encore
ESPN     ESPN Sports Network
ESPN2    ESPN Sports Network 2
HBO      Home Box Office
HSE      Regional Sports Network (Houston)
HTS      Regional Sports Network (Baltimore & DC)
KBL      Regional Sports Network (Pittsburg)
MAX      Cinemax
MPT      Maryland Public TV
MSC      Midwest Sports Channel
MSG      Madison Square Garden
MTV      Music(?) Television
PASS     Regional Sports Network (Detroit)
PRTK     Regional Sports Network (LA)
PSN      Prime Sports Network
PSN2     Prime Sports Network (Midwest & Mountains)
PSNW     Prime Sports Network (Northwest)
NESN     New England Sports Network
QVC      home shopping
RDS      Reseau Des Sports (Canada - French)
SCC      Sports Channel Chicago
SCNE     Sports Channel New England
SCNY     Sports Channel New York
SCOH     Sports Channel Ohio
SCP      Sports Channel Pacific
SHOW     Showtime
SPTS     Sport South Network
SRC      Societe Radio-Canada (French)
SUN      Sunshine Network (Regional Sports Network, SE USA)
TBS      Atlanta "Super Station"
TNN      The Nashville Network
TSN      The Sports Network (Canada - English)
USA      USA Network
WBFF     Baltimore
WDCA     Washington, DC
WGN      Chicago "Super Station"
WJZ      Baltimore
WOR      New York "Super Station"
WRC      Washington, DC
WUSA     Washington, DC
-------


From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Wed Nov 30 18:56:25 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Subject: TH-350 trans-brake question
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: derekp@stdavids.picker.com (Derek Pietro)
Content-Length: 271

	Anyone out there have any direct experience with any vendors
trans brake for a TH-350? 
any idea why Fairbanks brake for the th-350 is so much cheaper than
everybody elses?

Thanks.

Derek J. Pietro
Picker International
St Davids, Pa. office
derekp@stdavids.picker.com


From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Wed Nov 30 19:07:12 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Subject: Help - MTBE Fuel woes
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: derekp@stdavids.picker.com (Derek Pietro)
Content-Length: 1223

	I own a n 89 suburban that I tow my car to the track with. 
It replaced the 80 suburban "rust bucket" that got 9 1/2 mpg around town.
The new one is a throttle body injected 350. I was doing fairly
well with gas, non-towing (due to its cost, it had to become my 
daily driver, besides my tower). However, since the re-introduction
of oxegenated fuel in this area, on or around Nov 1, the truckster
has taken a nose dive on gas mileage, its down from 13 1/2 - 14 
to 10. 
	Though I realize this is not really the place for this 
type of question, the throttle body injection is still new
to me. With the expertise out there, can anyone give some 
practicle thoughts on how to recover some of the lost mileage.
While this used to be a winter only thing, Jan 1, 1995 is supposed
to be an official date in Pa. for year round use of this stuff, and
I shudder to think what it will be like towing the car next year.

Hints???

[ My hint is to write your state and federal officials, and tell them
of your results using oxygenated fuel.

If its available you might try the Diacom software and perhaps see
what is going on.  --FEP ]

Thanks

Derek J. Pietro
Picker International
St Davids, Pa. office
derekp@stdavids.picker.com


From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Wed Nov 30 20:02:56 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Subject: Re: Chevelle notes
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: Mark Leavitt 
Content-Length: 1908


On Mon, 28 Nov 1994, Frank wrote:
> 
> Perhaps the oldest common accident in the book happened when I was
> putting the '64 up on jack stands in my garage.  While jacking up the
> front end, the floor jack cup slipped off the cross member and landed
> squarely on the oil pan of my new ZZ3, giving it a slight dent.  Not
> quite small enought not to be a problem, though.  Rather than pulling
> the pan and beating this dent out, I am tempted to clean the pan,
> epoxy a few T nuts onto it and try to pop out the dent.  Has anybody
> had good luck doing this?  If this method fails, does anybody have a 
> few general thoughts about de-denting SBC oil pans?

Could you have been fortunate enough for the dent to be where a stiff 
rod through the dipstick tube might punch it down a bit?

[ NO!  The dent is right up front.  I had another good look at it last
night.  I think I'll try the epoxy route.  If it fails I'll have to 
assemble some sort of cradle to pick the block up without using the
oil pan, pan rails, etc.  

On the good news side, Global West has agreed to do my press work required
for the Delalum bushings and new ball joints if I bring the A arms to them.  
Perhap one morning next week I can strap a pile of iron to my Hawk and
run it up to Ontario.  --FEP ]

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
      ____________________                      
    /        (____)        \                   MARK LEAVITT
  /\________________________/\                 1964 Roadster
/______________\_/_____________\
\  .------------------------.  /      Lockheed Idaho Technologies Co
|\  \______________________/  /|      Idaho National Engineering Labs
| (0________|_1964_|________0) |            
|     |--'            `--|     |            mol@pmafire.inel.gov
`-----'                  `-----'
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=



From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Wed Nov 30 20:13:12 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Subject: Re: Dented oil pan
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
X-Comment: Send subscription and drop requests to hotrod-request@dsea.com
X-Comment: Send comments and trouble reports to frank@dsea.com
X-From: David Wright 
Content-Length: 1423

>Perhaps the oldest common accident in the book happened when I was
>putting the '64 up on jack stands in my garage.  While jacking up the
>front end, the floor jack cup slipped off the cross member and landed
>squarely on the oil pan of my new ZZ3, giving it a slight dent.  Not
>quite small enought not to be a problem, though.  Rather than pulling
>the pan and beating this dent out, I am tempted to clean the pan,
>epoxy a few T nuts onto it and try to pop out the dent.  Has anybody
>had good luck doing this?  If this method fails, does anybody have a 
>few general thoughts about de-denting SBC oil pans?
>
Well, I'd probably do it the right way and pull the pan.

If you don't want to do that, get one of those stick pullers used for bodywork.
It spotwelds a stick onto the low part of the dent, then pulls on the stick
until the dent is back flush.  Then you remove the stick (cut? break off?) and
grind/file off the excess.  My only question is whether the sheet metal on
your pan may be too thin and the weld will punch through - check the info on
the puller.  (Considering how thin modern body panels are, this may not be a
problem.)

Good luck -

David Wright (dwrig@tog-1s.hac.com)
65 Plymouth Belvedere II 4-door 273
74 Dodge Challenger Rallye 360
85 Toyota Camry Deluxe 5-spd   (This takes a little pounding on a piece of wood)
90 Toyota Corolla Deluxe 5-spd (I've pushed out dents on this with my thumbs)


From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Wed Nov 30 20:23:53 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Subject: MIG vs. TIG
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X-From: Dirk Broer 
Content-Length: 2282

Hi,
Well it come to a head - time to buy a welder.  Its near Christmass and my 
relatives have agreed to chip in plus money I've saved.
So what to get:

Immediate need is for frame welding - including a trailer frame and welding a 
roll cage (mild steel).
Future need? - body work?  repair floor boards? (old truck don't you know).

Choices:

Arc Welder - an AC/DC machine - pro's: cheap, and can do alot (with specialty 
welding rods) - con's: alot of heat, can't do thin stuff, might warp the big 
stuff - also pretty much un-accepted by NHRA for roll cages / bars.  Probably 
nice to have in any case.

Mig Welder (gas) - pro's: can weld just about anything - up to the thickest 
steel I'll use - con's: expensive, also concern about limited penetration.

Tig Welder - pro's: better penetration than Mig - con's: even more expensive (
although I have found two used ones for $1000), more difficult to use (I'll 
definitly take classes).  I understand that TIG welders have a water cooled 
tungstin tip - do some of the "econo" Tigs not have this?  I've also heard that 
some Tig's can double as an AC arc welder (although higher frequency), has 
anyone tried this?  Also is a TIG practicle for welding in tight places?

After a long discussion with my neighbor (who has gas, Arc, and Mig welder) he 
kind of steered me toward's a TIG welder.  Before I had though of buying a Mig 
and getting a TIG attachement down the road.  Now I don't even know if this is 
possible.  Does anyone have any comments/suggestions.  Also does anyone know of 
welding classes in the Maryland/DC area - I already am proficient with gas and 
arc welding - need some experience with Mig and Tig.

Thanks in advance
Dirk

[ I have used a stick welder and a MIG welder.  The stick is fast but
not too clean.  The MIG unit was a $5000 Miller with variable
everything and good power.  For 1/4" mild steel plate it was like
using a caulking gun -- incredibly fast and easy.

Do not forget that you will probably spend $1000 in welding
accesories.  You will need a welding apron, gloves, helmet,
respirator, clamps, a few jigs and perhaps some shoes.  You will need
at least one good grinder and a pile of grinding wheels.   You will
need plenty of filler, be it rods, wire, or whatever TIG uses.

--FEP ]


From dsea.com!hotrod@server.eng.dsea.com Wed Nov 30 20:35:58 1994
From: hotrod@dsea.com (Hotrod List)
To: Hotrod_users@dsea.com
Subject: Is anybody out there?
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
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X-From: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us (Dave Williams)
Content-Length: 4033


-> Yes, there is somebody here.

 Who says E-mail can't affect your life?  I just had a Pink Floyd
flashback after reading the subject line, and had to drop "The Wall"
into the CD player.  Ah, yes...


 Anyway, now that the list is sort of functioning again, here's a status
report on the sprint car:

 The "practically new" 327 turned out to be a dog.  The block was
already bored .040, and had .012 wear in a couple of cylinders.  The
cylinders show taper wear, oval wear on the thrust side, and are sort of
Coke bottle shaped too.  Despite the clearances the engine appeared to
have seized or severely overheated at least twice, looking at the scuff
marks.  There was also extensive pitting, not just where the rings were
at the time it was put away, but here and there for no particular reason
I can tell.  It'll have to be bored to .060.

 The fancy 14.4:1 TRW forged pistons are also worn.  Nominally .040
over, most of them run .027 to .033 over, measured at TRW's recommended
checking point.  Most show galling and scuff marks on the sides.  Seven
of eight show dents in the tops, *lots* of dents, like maybe someone
dropped square BBs into the engine while it was running.  Damned if I
know what caused it.

 TRW wants $75 each, jobber, for replacement pistons.  Yow!  The shop
has an old Perfect Circle piston knurling machine that nobody there
knows how to use.  I'm going to dunk it in the solvent tank and give it
a whirl; if I don't screw the pistons up maybe I can use them somewhere
else.

 Someone had honed the rods out to float the pins.  They'd drilled the
recommended two oil holes in the bottom of the small end, etc.
Unfortunately the rods and pins didn't get along - the bores of the rods
and the bearing areas of the pins are deeply scarred, and have maybe
.003 clearance instead of .0003.  The pins can be replaced, but the rods
are history.  Not enough metal there to bush.

 The crank was steel, 3.25 stroke, very nice.  The mains were all
.015-.016 under, smooth and round.  The rods were .017-.019 under.  I
figure it was turned .010+.005, which is real common around here,
because the idiots like the "build them loose for more power."  That
translates into .000-.001 wear on the mains, .002-.004 on the rods.
It'll have to go .020-.020.

 The bearings were in bad shape, with signs of metal to metal contact,
scorched oil, etc.

 There was a Milodon oil pump, which I opened up, cleaned with solvent,
and reassembled.  That's a keeper.  Ditto for the baffled 6-quart oil
pan.  There was a roller timing chain with over an inch of slack,
garbage canned.  The cam didn't look too bad, but all the lifters were
cupped.  Garbage can.


 I have verified that the engine originally came from a local race shop.
It had around 5000 street miles.  The original owner was appalled when
he saw the condition of the parts and swears to Jesus that he never ran
it out of oil or even saw the guage drop below 60 pounds; I believe him.
He doesn't have any particular reason to lie, as I got the engine for
free.

 The pitting in the cylinder walls is due to the engine being in storage
since 1980; living in a swamp has drawbacks.  Grant was running open
chamber heads, which dropped the CR down to about 12:1, and 4.56 gears
with a four speed; you could do that with leaded premium in 1980.

 I attribute most of the problems to the "race engine shop."  Excessive
clearances or plain old piss-poor machining would cover all the damage
except the dents on the piston domes, which have baffled all of us, and
the worn timing chain, which may have actually been a $13 Taiwan part
instead of a $80 Milodon part.


 Anyway, looks like we'll just toss the parts in the "stuff" pile and
assemble a 350.  

==dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us=============================DoD #978==
==  JOHNSON TOOLS - you'll always get your nut with a big Johnson!  ==
========================================John De Armond Fan Club #978==