From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 07:03:22 1994
Subject: Re: RX7 handling characteristics
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7762
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Dave Williams  wrote:

>  Other than being pretty sloppy the car handles pretty much like it
> always has, and close enough to the other early RXs I've driven.  That
Your experience must be limited to '79's or '80's...

> is, mild understeer when entering a corner, changing to gee-whiz-I'm-
> spinning-like-a-top oversteer if you even *think* about getting on or
> off the gas.  It's fine to putz around with, but when you start to push
> the car hard it becomes annoying.  I've never driven anything that'd get
> tailhappy like the RX, and I *like* tailhappy cars, only I like 'em a
> little more predictable.

>  I've tinkered with the car before, and looked at the service manual.
> Plain old McPherson struts up front, live axle in back with Watts link
> and longitudinal locating links.  From a brief look I don't see what
> makes the car so damned tailhappy.

The rear sway bar on a '79 is way to big for the car. It's 18mm. In '80
they went to 16mm, which is still a little too much. In '81 they went to
15mm

>  I don't have a good drawing of the rear suspension's longitudinal
> links and I haven't even looked under there in years.  I'd suspect
> massive roll oversteer, except the car doesn't roll much, it just swaps
> ends.

>  Does anyone have any suspension experience with early RXs they'd like
> to share?  I don't mind doing a little fabrication if I have to - the
> thing is squirrelly with a crummy hundred horses now; when I drop the
> new engine in it will probably be much worse.
You have a couple of alternatives after replacing shocks (listed by cost...):

- remove the rear bar
- replace the rear bar with one from an '81-'85
- replace the front bar with a 28mm bar

While you're replacing worn parts, NEVER replace the bushings on the rear
locating rods with urethane. The geometry is such that under severe lean
(maybe where you're at now...) the axle binds and probably would cause
snap oversteer...  Switching to urethane will only aggravate this behavior.
If you want to eliminate this forever, you need to modify the axle to a 3
point mount. Then you can use urethane bushings.  If you're interested,
email me and I'll give you the details.

--

******************************************************************************
*   Johann Schubert; Hewlett Packard, ISD   |  The opinions contained herein *
*                   Sunnyvale, California   |  are my own, because nobody    *
*   INTERNET:   jes@rx7.ptp.hp.com          |  else wants them...            *
*   CompuServe: >INTERNET:jes@rx7.ptp.hp.com|                                *
*   Packet:     KC6OVN@N0ARY                | "Ban low performance drivers,  *
*                                           |  not high performance cars."   *
******************************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!hpamsh4.ptp.hp.com!jes (Johann Schubert)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 11:36:58 1994
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7763
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
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I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
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most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
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----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 14:58:25 1994
Subject: Re: RX7 handling characteristics
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7764
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> You have replaced the idler arm bushings, haven't you?  They are very
-> short lived.  I also had to replace the bushing at the top of the
-> steering shaft (under the combination switch assembly) not too long
-> ago, it had completely disintegrated.

 Yep, done both.  I've also brazed up the semi-disinegrated window lift
mechanism, and am making a sleeve and bushing on the lathe to repair the
gear shaft.  Got to match up some door seals too - Mazda wants $65 per
side, but Whitney wants a buck a foot.  No contest.


-> I don't know what the rollcenters are like, though.

 Probably pretty steep.  High and fixed by the Watts in back, lowish and
slopping left to right by the McPhersons.  The wheelbase is 96"; the car
isn't as short as it looks.
                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 15:10:29 1994
Subject: more tube frame and general frame work questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7765
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I was wondering if anyone had experience with major frame work / 
customization.

My interest is in building a streetable (motor not included) NHRA legal 
super stocker.  The rules allow the construction of a new frame on the rear 
of the car (for a narrowed rear) and allow the rear frame to be attached 
directly to the front frame (uni-body car).

I've pretty much decided on mild steel.  The rules allow 2x3 rectangular 
square tubing. 

My question is this:

1) how accurately do I have to build to make the car (1) Safe and (2) 
handle well enough on the street.  In other words should the suspension 
mounts be located +- .25" or .025".

I know most frame repair shops use lasers etc.  But talking to one that 
doesn't - he claims the lasers don't necessarily increase the accuracy 
beyond what you can do with careful measuring with a tape messure.  The 
average tape measure goes down to the millimeter - and he claims he can use 
it to get better results than the "bozo" who doesn't take the time on the 
expensive machine.

So I can weld and I can measure.  Sound good so far?

What about warpage when I weld?  Is a jig really necessary?  I was thinking 
about buying some extra square tubing and making a jig - perhaps with 
wheels etc.  It would consist of two long parralel(as best I can measure) 
beams with multiple beams connecting between the two.  Allong the beams 
that connect the two long beams I would have stand offs that are tack 
welded to the car frame...  Begining to sound like overkill?

My tools are this:
Mig welder
Multiangle Mitre saw with steel cutting blade
Tape measure
"Smart Level" - an electronic level that claims +-.1 degree accuracy

I'm considering buying a tube bender and a tube notching tool ( I see way 
too many ads for these) so that I can add my own roll cage.  Roll cage 
questions are soon to follow.

Am I over my head?

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 15:19:29 1994
Subject: Distributors and tach drives
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7766
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Is there an advantage to a mechanical tach over a quality electronic
one?

I've picked up a distributor (with the tach drive) from a late 60's 
'vette to put in my Jeep, and when I took it apart I  discovered that
the tach drive gears were munged. Is it worth the expense of replacing
the distributor shaft and tach drive gear, given that I will have to
buy everything (tach, cable, coil, etc), or should I just chuck it
and get an HEI and an electronic tach?

Are there good sources for distributor parts?

Thanks!
Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!geta.life.uiuc.edu!mrmike (Mike McCaughey)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 15:28:34 1994
Subject: Wanted - 39 & 40 Ford parts
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7767
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


my husband is looking for:

40 Ford glove box lid - std - no clock

39 Ford Tudor doors, complete

call 408 722 1934



--
____________    __      ____________  "They that can give up essential
\_____     /   /_ \     \     _____/  liberty to obtain a little
 \_____    \____/  \____/    _____/  temporary safety deserve
  \_____                    _____/  neither liberty nor safety."
     \___________  ___________/          --Benjamin Franklin
               /    \           ALL disclaimers apply ....
               ~~~~~~

----------
Posted by: emory!zuni.litc.lockheed.com!sharen (Sharen A. Rund)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 15:37:14 1994
Subject: Update for Vendor Directory
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7768
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I think this bounced on the last posting, so here it is again:


Here's an update for the vendor directory.

Haltech is gone.  A company in the Dallas area, Emtech, now sells their stuff.

I talked to them about fuel injection computers.  They have an F3 $883 and E6 
$1450.  The F3 has inputs for rpm, tps, air temp, water temp, and boost.  The E6
adds O2 sensor and direct fire ignition (they have a setup for use on a rotary 
engine).

Their number is 214-831-9800

Later
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil


----------
Posted by: "Robert Gallant"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 15:46:05 1994
Subject: Wanted & For Sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7769
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


WANTED:

my husband is looking for:

40 Ford glove box lid - std - no clock

39 Ford Tudor doors, complete

call 408 722 1934

FOR SALE:

46 Buick Sedanette (call for info)

Parting out 57 Buick Special - complete car plus lots ofextra 57 parts

Some 46, 48, 55 & 56 Buick Parts

New 78 & 79 LeSabre take off trim, bumper strips & guards, wheel well
  trim, etc

Riviera parts

call 408 722 1934



--
____________    __      ____________  "They that can give up essential
\_____     /   /_ \     \     _____/  liberty to obtain a little
 \_____    \____/  \____/    _____/  temporary safety deserve
  \_____                    _____/  neither liberty nor safety."
     \___________  ___________/          --Benjamin Franklin
               /    \           ALL disclaimers apply ....
               ~~~~~~

----------
Posted by: emory!zuni.litc.lockheed.com!sharen (Sharen A. Rund)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 15:55:12 1994
Subject: Serious Hotroddin' Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7770
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	I am being perfectly serious in asking this. I have a chance
to get a 1978 Chevette for almost free, which would be in addition
to my built '76 Pontiac 250 I6. The Pontiac is fun but the gas
mileage can be depressing sometimes.

	Anyway, does anybody know of a source for Chevette
performance parts? (1.6L engine). I have seen an intake which
will accept a 2bbl or 4bbl carb, but I also would like a nice
cam and maybe a set of headers. (A friend told me of someone
who actually put a 454 in a Chevette. Required firewall
modification, etc, but supposedly it was one quick car.)


						Jason

Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.

(jcborkow@eden.rutgers.edu)

[Hey, talk real nice to me and I might just color xerox the cover of
a Car & Driver magazine that will live in Infamy forever :-)  It
has a picture of the then brand new Chevette with the blaring headlines:
"The Most Important Car Ever Built".  Found this jewel while prowling 
my old collection awhile back.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!eden.rutgers.edu!Jason,"6=8",Borkowsky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 16:04:58 1994
Subject: Re: Tube Frame
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7771
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Use Chrome-Moly Steel tubing for the copter.

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 16:13:42 1994
Subject: Tube Frame
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7772
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> car now wants to take to the sky. Actually, I'm looking into building
-> an ultra-light copter, and am looking into building a tube frame for

 Don't the prints specify a particular steel?  It should say something
like 1020 or 4130.

 1020 is plain old mild steel, welds just fine.  4130 does too, and is
about 30% stronger.  It was originally developed for tubular aircraft
structures, but it's quite a bit more expensive and there are some
special precautions you have to take to prevent cracking.

 Unless otherwise stated, use seamless drawn-over-mandrel (DOM) cold
rolled mild steel tubing.  "Mild steel" will vary from place to place;
it's the generic term for alloys similar to 1020.


 For an aircraft structure you need a tubing notcher.  There are several
times, using shears, holesaws, and end mills.  Pick whatever suits your
budget.  Use it to fit all the tubes properly, and pick up some of those
magnetic clamps to hold stuff while you weld.  Make damned sure you have
the correct rods for the metal you're welding.


-> strength and price. Also a source for tubing would also be
-> appreciated.

 Aircraft Spruce in California will sell you anything you want, but
unless you want 4130 your local steel place should have what you need in
open stock.
                                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 20:44:44 1994
Subject: round vs. square tubing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7773
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I was reading a book called something like "Welding Design" that was printed
in the '40s.  I got it at the flea market for 50 cents.

It's got a lot of neat engineering charts and formulas and stuff.

There was one chart in which the compared the relative strengths of different
shapes an forms of rolled steel (I-beams, H-beams, square tubing, round
tubing, bar, angle, etc.)

They compared pieces with identical weights per foot.  The strength of
I-beams and H-beams were higher (against bending and failing), but only in
one direction.  If you want strength against bending and failing in any
direction (360 degrees) then the round tubing is the way to go.  Square
tubing is a little less strong in certain directions.

For something like lever where all the rigidity is required in only one
direction, then I-beam or even flat bar is the way to go.

I think the uniform (360 degree strength) of round tubing is why all the race
car roll cages and stuff use it.  

The reason they use a lot of square and rectangular tubing in manufacturing
is that it takes less time to prepare the ends for welding.  To butt a square
bar into the side of another square bar only takes one simple cut with a chop
saw.  To but a round tube into another round tube requires a complicated
fishmouth opening and carefull fitting.

The book has zillions of diagrams showing different methods of making
attachments between different shapes of steel.

There's a lot of interesting facts about steel, like that it's the strongest
thing around costwise.  It has one of the greatest resistances against
fatigue of nearly anything commonly available.  If you make a structure, like
a building out of steel that's been WELDED together, it's way stronger than
if the same structure was riveted or bolted together.  Welded structures have
more resistance to fatigue.

Blah blah blah.

Pretty interesting stuff, though.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 20:58:54 1994
Subject: Re:  Distributors and tach drives
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7774
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



> Is there an advantage to a mechanical tach over a quality electronic
> one?

> I've picked up a distributor (with the tach drive) from a late 60's 
> 'vette to put in my Jeep, and when I took it apart I  discovered that
> the tach drive gears were munged. Is it worth the expense of replacing
> the distributor shaft and tach drive gear, given that I will have to
> buy everything (tach, cable, coil, etc), or should I just chuck it
> and get an HEI and an electronic tach?

> Are there good sources for distributor parts?

> Thanks!
> Mike

I just did a quick look up in Mid America's catalog (vette parts) and they 
show the distributer shaft and and just the tach drive cross gear going
for $105.00 ($75 and $30).  Phone is 800-500-8388 

If you do decide to not use it, I would be interested in buying it as I 
have a 69 vette.

Ed O'

edo@marcam.com





----------
Posted by: emory!marcam.com!edo (Ed Oriordan)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 21:09:42 1994
Subject: Re: Distributors and tach drives 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7775
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	Is it worth the expense of replacing
	the distributor shaft and tach drive gear, given that I will have to
	buy everything (tach, cable, coil, etc), or should I just chuck it
	and get an HEI and an electronic tach?

Chances are that you'll be happier in the long run with an HEI.
Mechanical tachs are, well, mechanical and tend to wear, get out of
adjustment, need new cables and magnet assemblies and so on. And the
HEI will be a better ignition system.

	Are there good sources for distributor parts?

Depends on the distributor, I think. I have a hard time finding parts
for my applications (mostly old British iron, some with Lucas, some
with Delco units), but Mallory racing and HEI  distributors seem to be
well supported.

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Mar  1 21:18:14 1994
Subject: Re: more tube frame and general frame work questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7776
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


#I was wondering if anyone had experience with major frame work / 
#customization.
#
#1) how accurately do I have to build to make the car (1) Safe and (2) 
#handle well enough on the street.  In other words should the suspension 
#mounts be located +- .25" or .025".

Art Morrison Enterprises (the chassis guys) advertise accuracy to 1/8". 
Normally, you want to get the welded chassis as close to exact as possible.
(Don't knock yourself out getting it exact, though. Metal moves when heat is 
applied.) You should incorporate suspension that is adjustable to make up
for any errors in welding of a chassis/frame rails reguardless if the chassis
is perfectly aligned. You need the suspension adjustments to help launch the 
car straight, more so than having the rear end square to the car.

#
#So I can weld and I can measure.  Sound good so far?
#
#What about warpage when I weld?  Is a jig really necessary?  I was thinking 
#about buying some extra square tubing and making a jig - perhaps with 
#wheels etc.  It would consist of two long parralel(as best I can measure) 
#beams with multiple beams connecting between the two.  Allong the beams 
#that connect the two long beams I would have stand offs that are tack 
#welded to the car frame...  Begining to sound like overkill?

It's not overkill... It's how the pro's do it!! The closer the welded chassis is
to square, the better the job. (better looking too....)

The typical jig for a complete chassis is a metal table that is slightly larger
than the vehicle is. It is a 1/2" thick plate steel. It's not practical for the
home builder. I have one friend that built his chassis jig out of plywood and
2X4's. It worked just as well as the metal table. (except you can't tack the 
rails to the plywood to hold them down for welding) 

The important thing to keep in mind for the jig are "a flat level surface"
to take measurements from and the ability to hold the metal parts to it for 
welding to minimize distortion.

I opted to have mine built by a chassis company. I spent $1700 for a completely
welded chassis instead of $700 for a pile of tubing and a diagram.
It was well worth the money to me to not have to do all of the pipe 
fitting/welding work...  It will also make it MUCH easier when i go to get the 
car certified for the first time at the racetrack.

#
#My tools are this:
#Mig welder
#Multiangle Mitre saw with steel cutting blade
#Tape measure
#"Smart Level" - an electronic level that claims +-.1 degree accuracy
#
#I'm considering buying a tube bender and a tube notching tool ( I see way 
#too many ads for these) so that I can add my own roll cage.  Roll cage 
#questions are soon to follow.
#
#Am I over my head?
#
#Dirk

I don't think so... But You definately need the art morrison, s&w, and allston
catalogs. you can buy the rear frame clip in various stages of assembly. They
also have a tech line for all of your questions. (the catalog from morrison 
shows step by step installation of the frame rails and wheel tubs into a nova.
That alone is worth the price of their catalog).

-dan a.
dhoward@sw.stratus.com

----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 05:06:43 1994
Subject: Chevy small-block: interesting oil leak
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7777
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Does anyone have a possible explanation for the REALLY weird oil leak that
I found?

I found an interesting oil leak in my 350 in my Z28.  I thought I might
describe it here, and get an opinion on why the leak exists.  First, let
me say that the engine has been through extensive modifications ($2000
in machining) and this might be a result of that.

The leak was in one of the accessory holes at the front of the engine
block, on the bottom passenger's side, just around the corner from the fuel
pump.  It was the top of the two holes at this location.  I put a bolt in
this hole, and my leak disappeared.

Anyway, I didn't build the engine, it was already built when I bought the 
car.  Like I said, the engine was built for serious street racing, and 
regularly sees 7000 RPM.  I never noticed the leak until I rebuilt the 
engine.  I rebuilt the engine due to the seals seeing their last day.
After rebuilding the engine, this leak showed up.  It might be that the leak
existed before, but I didn't know it because there might have been a bolt
in the hole, which I would not have put back in after rebuilding the engine.

Apparently this bolt hole was venting the crankcase, because with extensive
testing, whisps of smoke could be seen coming from the hole.  The only way
that I could get the hole to leak oil is to get the car on the freeway.  
Running the engine at high RPM while the car sat didn't make it leak.  Neither 
did jacking the car up to different angles.

-thanks
Brian

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.utexas.edu!haskett (Brian Scott Haskett)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 05:24:11 1994
Subject: some muffler maunderings
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7778
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



from High Performance Pontiac, Aug 92, "Silent Power" by Tom Hand

  back pressure chart, inches of water   - 27.7 inches H2O = 1 PSI
  2.5" exhaust system & mufflers.  Sound readings static 2200 RPM
  pressure readings wide open at 5200 RPM.

  dBA    in H2O        muffler
  95      0       open
  90      58      SuperTrapp 18
  81      86      Dynomax 17749
  84      90      Borla
  84      90      Cyclone Sonic Turbo
  85      97      Thrush CVX
  83      104     Dynomax 17734
  90      118     Flowmaster 42550D
  83      125     AP XLERATOR
  89      125     Supertrapp 12
  90      159     Flowmaster 42551H
  78      312     stock replacement muffler, 2.5 inlet, 2.0 outlet,
.               oval, offset inlet, lifetime warranty - 11.25 PSI back
.               pressure
                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 05:30:22 1994
Subject: round vs. square tubing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7779
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Blah blah blah.
->
-> Pretty interesting stuff, though.

 Yeah, Tom, but look at it this way - it's the difference between
WORKING ON things, and MAKING things.  You can tell you're getting in
deep when you're actually interested in alloys and stresses.  In your
case, I think you already have the disease.

 Drink lots of beer, get plenty of rest, and watch lots of MTV and
daytime TV.  Pretty soon your brains will turn to mush and the urge to
build stuff from scratch will go away.   
                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 05:37:24 1994
Subject: Re: Chevy small-block: interesting oil leak
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7780
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 haskett@cs.utexas.edu (Brian Scott Haskett) writes:

>Does anyone have a possible explanation for the REALLY weird oil leak that
>I found?
>
>I found an interesting oil leak in my 350 in my Z28.  I thought I might
>describe it here, and get an opinion on why the leak exists.  First, let
>me say that the engine has been through extensive modifications ($2000
>in machining) and this might be a result of that.
>
>The leak was in one of the accessory holes at the front of the engine
>block, on the bottom passenger's side, just around the corner from the fuel
>pump.  It was the top of the two holes at this location.  I put a bolt in
>this hole, and my leak disappeared.

Yep, that accessory bolt hole is tapped all the way back to the 
mechanical fuel pump push rod.  Before you screwed around wioth the 
engine, there was a bolt in there.  

Solution:  Put a SHORT bolt in the hole, and make sure the bolt does not
contact the fuel pump pushrod. Putting the original bolt back in this
hole without the accessory will cause the bolt to bottom out on the fuel
pump pushrod.  Put some sealer on the threads.

-Eric


-- 
"The middle class tax cut is central to any attempt we're going to make to have
a short term economic strategy.  Bill Clinton, Jan 1992.
"...the press thought the most important issue in the race was the middle class
tax cut.  I never did meet any voter who thought that." Bill Clinton, Jan 1993.

----------
Posted by: emory!everest.Stanford.EDU!eap (Eric Perozziello)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 05:42:41 1994
Subject: Re: Chevy small-block: interesting oil leak
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7781
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article <1994Mar1.192505.989@cascade.stanford.edu>,
Eric Perozziello  wrote:
>Yep, that accessory bolt hole is tapped all the way back to the 
>mechanical fuel pump push rod.  
>Solution:  Put a SHORT bolt in the hole, and make sure the bolt does not
>contact the fuel pump pushrod. Putting the original bolt back in this
>hole without the accessory will cause the bolt to bottom out on the fuel
>pump pushrod.  Put some sealer on the threads.

Cool... That's what I did.  I bought a 3/4" long bolt, put some sealer
around it, and put it in the hole.  That was 750 miles ago, and it hasn't
leaked a drop since.  I used to lose a quart about every 80-100 miles!
I bet that I've gone through at least 50 quarts of oil looking for that
leak. 

Just when you think you know your engine / car inside and out...

PS- thanks for all of the e-mail replies

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.utexas.edu!haskett (Brian Scott Haskett)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 05:47:55 1994
Subject: Land yacht/air craft carrier/plywoodmobile
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7782
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a '67 fury III convertible that is getting a bit tired.  
Currently powered by a 318 with tf727 trans, 3.23 ls rear, column mount shifter.
The body is beat, so I'd like to radicalize it with all kinds of tricks.
I don't know when, since this stuff cost $$$.

I have no interest in keeping a stock car, so I'd like to go with
a 440 (pre 73) and a 4 spd.  I plan to build the hell out of 
the engine, since I couldn't care less if it only got 5mpg, but
I'd like to keep the engine cost below $1000, not including the cost
of the block and heads.  I figure a good 3-angle job, maybe some porting
for breathability.  Headers, Alum intake, triple roller chain (do these exist?)
forged pistons ~10.5:1, magnum cam or hotter, and a good electronic ignition.
I would also like to upgrade the electrics to modern-style (electronic regulator)
I've built one other car, which ran good, but I'd like to do more to this one.
Since the car's so beat, I wont feel quilty for chopping the hell out of it,
but I want it to be clean and fine when its done.

My questions:
Whats involved in convering the alt/reg to modern (say, post 79)?
Whats involved in converting to electronic ignition?
Will a BB fit without changing the K-member?
Will I have to put heavier Torsion Bars in?
Anyone have info on hydraulic-control "drop-type" suspension? (NO! I don't live in
	Inglewood, CA! 8*)
What's involved in changing from drums to disks up front?  What donor car?
Will I need to shorten the drive shaft to make the 4-spd fit? (anyone got a 4-spd?)
Anyone know who sells replacement 1/4's and trunk floors for this CONVT?
Anyone got a 4-spd console for this car?  I already have buckets...

I know it sounds like a lot of work, but its paid for, and I like the lines...

Any help or answers on any questions would be appreciated.

mike phillips
mwp@aluxs.att.com


----------
Posted by: emory!cbnewse.att.com!news
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 05:52:34 1994
Subject: Re: ZZ3 350 HO
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7783
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I had a 1992 anniversary z convertible that I had swaped the zz3 into.  My
car was of course tuneport so it ran alot better than your average
carbarated one.  I had it dynoed and it speced out at 435 hp at 5200 rpms
and 468 ftlbs of torque at 4000 rpms ?  My car had a reworked th700r4 in it
and a 4.10 in the rear end.  I had a walker super turbo exhaust system with
the cats mysteriously hollowed out.  I changed the fuel injectors to the
factory ones out of the 89 turbo trans-am.  The trans was recalibrated by a
specmo hi-perf computer and I used a hypertech stage three chip.  I never
actually got a chnce to get it to the track, but I can tell you that nothing
would touch it on the street.  I was even able to edge out my father in his
400 hp zr-1 unti about 85 miles per hour when the zr-1 just kept on climbing.
Its good that you already have a 3.73 in your car, that wa one of my worst
problems, because the convertibles come with something more in the range of
2.73. Also remember that that engine really needs to breath so make certain
you allow it enough air intake and free enough exhaust.
                                          see ya l8r,
						Greg

----------
Posted by: Gregory Douglas Ryba 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 05:57:16 1994
Subject: spin-on oil filter fitting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7784
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone know which waythe spin-on oil filter fitting goes into the block
on a small block Chevy?  Does the by-pass diaphram sit on the side closest to
the oil pan or rotated 180 degrees?

				Joe

----------
Posted by: emory!zirconia.rutgers.edu!joskelly (Joseph Kelly)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 06:14:25 1994
Subject: more tube frame and general frame work questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7785
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> 1) how accurately do I have to build to make the car (1) Safe and (2)
-> handle well enough on the street.  In other words should the
-> suspension mounts be located +- .25" or .025".

 If you can get within .125 you're doing as good as most factory cars.
get down to .060 and you're real good.  .025 would be dead nuts.

 Mainly, you want both sides to be the same length, and for your
diagonal measurements to be the same, which will give you a nice square
chassis.

 You can tack the brackets on the rear, measure, and if you don't like
it, just knock 'em off with a hammer and try again.  Once everything
comes out OK, weld 'em up.


-> What about warpage when I weld?  Is a jig really necessary?  I was
-> thinking about buying some extra square tubing and making a jig -
-> perhaps with wheels etc.  It would consist of two long parralel(as
-> best I can measure)

 I wouldn't worry about it.  The tape is plenty good enough.  You have
to remember that the chassis moves around a lot when you start putting
power down, so these guys who claim .010 or tighter are just pissing in
the wind.


-> Mig welder
-> Multiangle Mitre saw with steel cutting blade
-> Tape measure
-> "Smart Level" - an electronic level that claims +-.1 degree accuracy

 Some of those magnetic welder's clamps would be a big help, and one of
those 4" or 8" angle grinders, for shaping tubes and dressing welds.
Otherwise you've got what it takes.  Hell, John Buttera built a lot of
cars with just about the same tools you do, except he had a drill press
too.  In a one-car garage.


-> Am I over my head?

 Naw.  Just think out what you're doing ahead of time, and make sure you
don't engineer yourself into a hole.  Check out some of the street rod
type magazines - they often cover custom rear sections like you're
talking about, and you might pick up a few neat ways to do things
easier.
                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 16:21:05 1994
Subject: Sheet Metal Dipping
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7786
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I would like to set up a dip tank for stripping small body parts.  What I 
would like to know is what chemical or chemicals do the big boys use?  I 
thought I would only do something as big as a fender so I would probably 
only need to do about 50 gallons.  I would like to use something that will 
strip paint as well as rust.  Also would I need to use some kind of 
neutralizer or will plain water work.  I would appreciate any help on this I 
can get.


Gene Forrer
Forrere@ccMail.orst.edu
The opinions expressed here are my own. 
Except those I've stolen them from somebody else.

----------
Posted by: emory!ccmail.orst.edu!forrere (Gene Forrer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 17:51:07 1994
Subject: Re:  Land yacht/air craft carrier/plywoodmobile
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7787
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Beware of the crankshaft if you are going to put a 4-speed on an
automatic equipped engine.  It seems that Chrysler did not finish the
pilot bushing hole to size in automatic cars.  There is a special
undersize pilot bushing available if you get one of these cranks, from
McCandless Racing.

Chuck Maguire
maguire@wae.gmpt.gmeds.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wae.gmpt.gmeds.com!maguire (chuck maguire 575-3859)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 18:01:15 1994
Subject: Re: Land yacht/air craft carrier/plywoodmobile 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7788
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>>>>> On Wed, 2 Mar 94 05:29 EST, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) said:

> I have a '67 fury III convertible that is getting a bit tired.
> Currently powered by a 318 with tf727 trans, 3.23 ls rear, column
> mount shifter.

> Whats involved in converting to electronic ignition?

This part's trivial.  Just grab the Mopar Performance catalog, order
the kit, and install it.

You may want to get on the Mopar Mailing List.  Send e-mail with your
e-mail address to mopar-request@thor.isp.nwu.edu to subscribe.

-- Chris.
(ch@lks.csi.com)

[GAD!  Don't spend that kind of money!  Go to the junkyard and find a 
good small block electronic distributor.  Mine, along with the wiring 
harness and amplifier cost $30.  If you don't get the amp in the deal,
go to K-mart and pay about $14 for an ignition amplifier.  Hook it up 
and go.  If you want to use a supercoil of some sort, go to your
auto parts store and get a Rockhill LX101 (or equiv) amplifier.  
This amp deliveres as much current and its dwell is as long as the 
mid-level mopar "performance" amp that costs almost $100.  The LX101
only costs about $20.  Said setup is what graces the engine compartment
of the Rolls Knardly, my 68 Fury.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: Christopher Hoover 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 18:10:06 1994
Subject: Re: some muffler maunderings
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7789
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

(jgd: sorry about the reply, my editor is fixed now.)

'The Hotrod List' writes:
>   dBA    in H2O        muffler
>   90      58      SuperTrapp 18
>   89      125     Supertrapp 12

Are these different models of SuperTrapp or is that 18 discs and 12 disc?


-- 
Jonathan R. Lusky  --  lusky@knuth.mtsu.edu
 "Turbos are nice but I'd rather be blown!"
   89 Jeep Wrangler - 258 / pile of junk!
       80 Toyota Celica - 20R / 5spd

----------
Posted by: emory!knuth.mtsu.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 18:19:16 1994
Subject: Re: Chevy small-block: interesting oil leak
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7790
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Brian wrote about an oil leak in a small block Chevy:
>The leak was in one of the accessory holes at the front of the engine
>block, on the bottom passenger's side, just around the corner from the fuel
>pump.  It was the top of the two holes at this location.  I put a bolt in
>this hole, and my leak disappeared.

You have just discovered the fuel pump pushrod installation hole.
You are supposed to put a long bolt in this hole finger tight to
hold the push rod in place before you install the fuel pump.
After the pump is in place you replace the bolt with a short one
that won't touch the push rod.  This hole is connected to the push
rod's bore and is therefore exposed to oil.  Use a little Permatex
on the bolt threads to seal it.

Bob Hale    hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!tesla.is!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 18:32:40 1994
Subject: spin-on oil filter fitting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7791
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Does anyone know which waythe spin-on oil filter fitting goes into
-> the block on a small block Chevy?  Does the by-pass diaphram sit on
-> the side closest to the oil pan or rotated 180 degrees?

 The ones I've seen, it didn't matter which way it went.
                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 18:43:12 1994
Subject: Chevy small-block: interesting oil leak
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7792
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> The leak was in one of the accessory holes at the front of the engine
-> block, on the bottom passenger's side, just around the corner from
-> the fuel pump.  It was the top of the two holes at this location.  I
-> put a bolt in

 Yup, most all small block Chevys have the hole.  It's quite convenient
for running a long bolt into, to keep the fuel pump pushrod from falling
out when you're changing the fuel pump.

 Chevy just puts a short bolt in the hole; I've never noticed any
sealer, but a little probably wouldn't hurt.


 I get a kick out of looking at engine photos in the car magazines;
makes me wonder how many people have spent hours chasing down that
elusive "front seal leak" that keeps getting oil all over the motor...
                                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 18:51:25 1994
Subject: Re: Chevy small-block: interesting oil leak
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7793
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

That's not a leak -- it's supposed to be like that.  The block is drilled all
the way through there to the bore for the fuel pump pushrod.  You can
actually use that to thread a long bolt in if you want to keep the fuel pump
pushrod from falling out during assembly.  Use a short (3/4") bolt with some
Permatex on it to plug up the hole.  Use the hole directly below it to attach
a ground strap if you want.

I'm not sure all small block Chevys have that hole drilled all the way
through, but I know several of mine did.  The non hardening Permatex works
great every time.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 18:56:04 1994
Subject: Do K&N air filters really flow easier and clean as well?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7794
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Hi. I recall hearing that this issue had been discussed before but I
have never heard any of the discussion.
    Do K&N cleanable oiled air filters really do the superior job they
claim? I autocross a daily-driven car, and would like the best flowing
filter that still does the job. Has anyone run flow tests?

My mechanic says there is a drawback to the oiled filter: The oil gets
sucked downstream into the air flow sensor etc. and requires cleaning.




Joe Weinstein   joe@sybase.com   Sybase 1650 65th st.  Emeryville Ca 94608
							      510-922-3620
"Like jewels in a crown, the precious stones
twinkled on the queens round metal hat."     John Handey

----------
Posted by: emory!sybase.com!joe (Joseph Weinstein)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 19:00:30 1994
Subject: Re: round vs. square tubing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7795
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	Another interesting thing about sqaure vrs round tubing is that
square tubing is stiffer for a given size than round.  The moment of
inertia (as measure of stifnees of a given shape) for square tubing is
b^4/12 and for round tubing is pi*D^4/32. For a one inch square the Ip
would be 1/12 for round it would be pi/32.

   For a given area or mass round is stiffer.  For a square of area 1 the base
(b) would be 1 for a circle the diameter would be 1.128. The Ip for square
would be .0833 and .159 for round.

        Henry Sommer               Mechanical Engineering student
        gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu   Georgia Institute of Technology     
 

----------
Posted by: emory!acme.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Mar  2 19:05:21 1994
Subject: RE: round vs. square tubing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7796
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

About that book...

HP also has two books that I've been eyeing.

Carol Smith's "Nut, Bolts, Fastners, and Plumbing"
Description in Jeg's :"The most complete guide to hardware for race cars 
ever compiled"
and
HP's "Welder's Handbook"
Description in Jeg's :" Discusses processes, equipement, safety, technique"

Carol Smith's book sounds interesting especially the plumbing section.
The Welder's handbook sounds a little thin....

Does anyone know for sure?

Dirk

[Smith's books are very good if you can stomach the condescention against
any race vehicle not built from scratch.  I have the Welder's Handbook.
I'm not sure I'd buy it again.  I have to qualify that by saying that
I was once a certified welder.  You might look through it before
buying.  I regularly see it on the shelves at Pep boys and AutoZone.  

In terms of fasteners, techniques, etc, I HIGHLY recommend getting a 
catalog from Alexander Aeroplane (see the vendor's list) and 
subscribe to their free newsletter.  The high performance homebuilt 
aircraft guys have it all over us in terms of lightweight, very
strong construction techniques and materials.  AA stocks both 
AN fasteners and books on technique.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 03:22:00 1994
Subject: Oil filter adapters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7797
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Funny somebody should ask about those today...

My new ZZ3 adaptor does not come with one.  I went to GM and tried to
get a kit.  They do not sell one.  So I need to get a 3952301, gasket
and 2 5/16-18 * 1 1/4 bolts and Locktite.

On the other hand, Moroso makes something that might work, but I cannot 
figure out how.  Its a oil cooler addon standoff plate: 90062 or something
like that.  About 10 different types of dry sump setups, and 15 remote
mount kits, too.  I also found that Mr Gasket's 9755 should do the trick,
but was not there.
{ All of the people at Herb Albert Cams seem to be fat, stupid and 
uninterested in selling hardware; sad but true.  They has some REALLY
nice stuff, though. }  

Since there was a LT1 on the floor next to the demo ZZ3, I looked at 
its setup.  It is a shifted block-hugger with oil-cooler fittings and
a long, narrow filter.  Seems PERFECT for headers.  Total cost is
about $35 for gaskets, bolts, plugs, casting and oil filter.  Only
stock in the USA is in Lansing, MI....( Buy this if you are not
in a hurry )

ZR1, next to the ZZ3 too, has oil filter on the belt-driven oil 
pump, right next to the water pump.  Oil filter is mounted upside
down -- guaranteed to always make a mess!

I bought the ( extremely standard ) 3952301.

The 283 that is my "donor" was old style -- bolt-on -- with an
adapter for screw-on.  Will not fit my application, and would not come 
out of the @#$@#@ block.

I believe I managed to see every single style of small block chevy 
oil filter adapter ever made, all in one day.  SoCal can be amazing.

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704       DoD:1097

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 03:32:27 1994
Subject: Frame Tubing / Exhaust
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7798
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	First off, I originally asked about building building the copter
frame, and I got a few replies.

	The plans call for any aircraft quality grade steel or aluminum
framing material. As the majority has stated, 4130 steel would be better
in my case, in terms of strength and price.

	I was also told I would need a tube notcher in order to join
tubing together. I figured it would be easier to use square framing
steel. I still haven't gotten any steel prices yet, but would anybody
know off the top of their head the approximate price of rectangular tubing
made of 4130? If it becomes too much, I won't start the project yet.
The control rotor itself is $2500. The blades are $1000/pair. And
the two 20H jet engines (propane fueled) are $795 each.

[Jet engines?!?!  Tell us more!  JGD]

	Secondly, Dave posted a listing a few posts back about 
performance muffler backpressure and acoustc sound pressure. Would
you also happen to have a listing for the Thrush Turbo/California
Turbo muffler? (The ones that cost about $6.50 each). They seem
to be pretty good mufflers for the price, however they do not
stand up well to back-firing.


	Lastly, anybody have an opinion of bendable exhaust tubing?
JC Whitney has some stainless steel bendable tubing for about $2
a foot. My exhaust system on a Chevy I-6 engine needs a bit of
work on the exhaust system near the engine, and I was going to
replace some of it with bendable tubing.

	Up here in NJ, muffler shops will not touch a car unless the
exhaust system is completely stock, as in stock exhaust manifold,
stock cat, stock pipes, etc. Having a car with headers, high
flow cat, and a non-stock dual exhaust, I can't get any pipes custom
bent. Bending 60 degree to 75 degree bends with a torch is not
fun and does not make great bends.

[Why don't you mock it up using welding wire or something and then
take the plans to the muffler shop and ask to have a piece of tubing
bent to fit the pattern?  Don't tell 'em it's going on a 
car.  JGD]


						Jason

Experience varies directly with equipment ruined.

(jcborkow@eden.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: emory!eden.rutgers.edu!Jason,"6=8",Borkowsky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 03:43:33 1994
Subject: duh, humor... funny
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7799
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 Circle Track, April '94, "Behind the Wheel" by Don Alexander:

"In my own racing, I love it when a competitor thinks I'm cheating.
When someone thinks about what you are doing instead of what they should
be doing, you have the advantage.  The only cheating happening here is
to the guy not paying attention to his own car; he's cheating himself.
I have never knowingly driven a race car that was illegal under the
existing rules.  But I have often gone out of my way to make others
think that I was cheating.

 One season, my car owner would put a different color food dye in the
gas before every race.  He'd wait to fuel the car until a couple of our
competitors were standing around, too.  They'd see purple, green, or
orange gasoline going into the tank, convinced that we were cheating.
There was nothing in the rules about food coloring.  We weren't cheating,
but we were having a great deal of fun, and gaining a great
psychological advantage over the other competitors."

[Ohh, I just LOVE mind-games at the starting line! :-0  When I was
racing motorcycles, I spent months practicing so that I could sit on
my stationary bike with both feet on the pegs.  That would absolutely
freak 'em out!  Other tricks included not putting on the helmet
until the very last moment, not starting the engine until the 
starting sign went sideways (15 seconds left), attaching funny looking but
completely inert devices to the exhaust pipe, attaching a small bottle
of colored water to the frame with a tube going to somewhere inside the
engine cases.  Mind games are LOADS of fun :-)  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 03:52:42 1994
Subject: Re: more tube frame and general frame work questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7800
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>My question is this:
>
>1) how accurately do I have to build to make the car (1) Safe and (2) 
>handle well enough on the street.  In other words should the suspension 
>mounts be located +- .25" or .025".

I try to make sure I am +-.0625 (.125 total variance).  This is as close
as most factory work gets in older cars.

>
>I know most frame repair shops use lasers etc.  But talking to one that 
>doesn't - he claims the lasers don't necessarily increase the accuracy 
>beyond what you can do with careful measuring with a tape messure.  The 
>average tape measure goes down to the millimeter - and he claims he can use 
>it to get better results than the "bozo" who doesn't take the time on the 
>expensive machine.
>
>So I can weld and I can measure.  Sound good so far?  

No problem, I've done a '57 Chevrolet truck with Art Morrison ladder
bars using a homebuilt rear subframe and homebuilt coilover shocks.  I
am currently building a 2x3 subframe for my '69 Mustang bracket racer,
again using Art Morrison ladder bars, diagonal link, and adjustable
coilovers.  Simply follow the instructions, measure 4 times(!!!) before
cutting anything, weld carefully, and presto, homebuilt race car.

>What about warpage when I weld?  Is a jig really necessary?  I was thinking 
>about buying some extra square tubing and making a jig - perhaps with 
>wheels etc.  It would consist of two long parralel(as best I can measure) 
>beams with multiple beams connecting between the two.  Allong the beams 
>that connect the two long beams I would have stand offs that are tack 
>welded to the car frame...  Begining to sound like overkill?
>

I get my work square by taking diagonal measurements, tack welding,
remeasuring, take a rest, remeasure, wait a day, remeasure, then make
adjustments.  When satisfied, I complete the welding.  I use an L-Tec
MIG 130 on CO2 (0.030 wire), a miter chop saw, and careful measurement
and alignment.  Do I sound like a broken record?  Oh yea, I use the same
tape measure, square, and calipers for all my measurements every time as
they will vary...  be consistent.

>My tools are this:
>Mig welder
>Multiangle Mitre saw with steel cutting blade
>Tape measure
>"Smart Level" - an electronic level that claims +-.1 degree accuracy

I use a bubble level and a really flat garage floor for all my work.  If
you have an electronic level, you might get a little more accuracy than
me.

>
>I'm considering buying a tube bender and a tube notching tool ( I see way 
>too many ads for these) so that I can add my own roll cage.  Roll cage 
>questions are soon to follow.

For the money, buy a rollcage kit from one of the reputable
manufacturers.  An NHRA legal kit, computer designed to fit your car
(except for your custom subframe) runs about $250.  You cannot buy the
tools for that much.

>
>Am I over my head?

NO!!!  If I can do it, you can do it.

Good luck!!!  Keep us all posted on your progress.  If interested, I'll
keep you posted on mine.

Steve

p.s.  Art Morrison Enterprises can be reached at 1-800-929-7188.  Their
catalog is $5.  I don't work for them, I don't get anything from them,
I'm simply a consumer patronizing a business in my home state.  But yes,
I like their products.  The 55 Chevy that is/was Car Craft's "Project
Super Glass" uses their frame, suspension, and other goodies.  Check out
Car Craft mag if you want more info.

----------
Posted by: emory!pnl.gov!sc_marschman (Steve Marschman)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 04:03:55 1994
Subject: Re: spin-on oil filter fitting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7801
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> -> Does anyone know which waythe spin-on oil filter fitting goes into
> -> the block on a small block Chevy?  Does the by-pass diaphram sit on
> -> the side closest to the oil pan or rotated 180 degrees?
> 
>  The ones I've seen, it didn't matter which way it went.  >                                                   
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

On the side next to the oil pan....I don't think it really matters in
real life.

dave

--
Dave Dabay       Telecommunications Engineer Supervisor      KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu

----------
Posted by: dave dabay 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 04:14:34 1994
Subject: Re: round vs. square tubing 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7802
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	[In terms of fasteners, techniques, etc, I HIGHLY recommend getting a 
	catalog from Alexander Aeroplane (see the vendor's list) and 
	subscribe to their free newsletter.  The high performance homebuilt 
	aircraft guys have it all over us in terms of lightweight, very
	strong construction techniques and materials.  AA stocks both 
	AN fasteners and books on technique.  JGD]

AA is OK, but Aircraft Spruce & Specialty has a much nicer (and
beefier) catalog; I find it much easier to find things (as well as
discover things I didn't know about but now need to spend money on) in
AS&S's catalog, and then start shopping price.

They charge something like $5, which is refundable on first order.

Name:        Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Company
Address:     201 W. Truslow Avenue
             P.O. Box 424
             Fullerton, CA 92632
Phone:       (714) 870-7551
             (800) 824-1930 order hotline
             (714) 871-7289 fax

[Agreed.  Howsomever, AA is in my back yard :-)  More importantly, they
cater to the racecar crowd and support a couple of F-SAE efforts.
I like to support folks that do either of these things.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 04:20:06 1994
Subject: Re: ZZ3 350 HO
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7803
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> I had a 1992 anniversary z convertible that I had swaped the zz3 into.  My
> car was of course tuneport so it ran alot better than your average
> carbarated one.  I had it dynoed and it speced out at 435 hp at 5200 rpms
> and 468 ftlbs of torque at 4000 rpms ?  My car had a reworked th700r4 in it
> and a 4.10 in the rear end.  I had a walker super turbo exhaust system with
> the cats mysteriously hollowed out.  I changed the fuel injectors to the
> factory ones out of the 89 turbo trans-am.  The trans was recalibrated by a
> specmo hi-perf computer and I used a hypertech stage three chip.  I never
> actually got a chnce to get it to the track, but I can tell you that nothing
> would touch it on the street.  I was even able to edge out my father in his
> 400 hp zr-1 unti about 85 miles per hour when the zr-1 just kept on climbing.
> Its good that you already have a 3.73 in your car, that wa one of my worst
> problems, because the convertibles come with something more in the range of
> 2.73. Also remember that that engine really needs to breath so make certain
> you allow it enough air intake and free enough exhaust.
>                                           see ya l8r,
> 						Greg
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: Gregory Douglas Ryba 
>  

Were there any other modifications done to the ZZ3 before 
you had it dynoed? or were these specs with the ZZ3 in 
'stock' form? These figures are *very* impressive. Do you
still have the car?  It's sounds like you're talking in 
past tense.

I'm trying to decide whether to have the 350, that's in the
car right now, punched out to a stroker 383 or get the ZZ3. 
The reason I'm having trouble deciding is that the ZZ3
engine is around ~$3000 not installed. I can have a shop
take out the 350 that's already in the car, punch in out to 
a 383 and stuff it back in, tuned and ready to rock n' roll
for about the same price...  Since I'm on a budget, doing
the 383 sounds better on the surface, but I don't know.....
What do you think??

The shop quoted me hp and torque numbers, for the 383, just 
under the dyno numbers that you posted. 

George
gdumpit@auspex.com 



----------
Posted by: emory!auspex.com!gdumpit (George Dumpit)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 04:25:58 1994
Subject: more Circle Track stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7804
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 "When Chrysler Was King," an overview of some Chrysler NASCAR rides of
the '50s.

 Photo of a cut-out fenderwell and firewall and a light

 caption:

"Stock cars rode on stock tires in those days.  A driver could inspect
the right front's deteriorating condition by peering through a hole
hacked through the firewall and using the strobe for illumination.  All
this at speed, mind you."

 The photo actually shows the passenger side, but that's a minor
quibble.


 I guess shaving tires wasn't in fashion in the '50s.


 BTW, the new Team TA flyer has a warning about shaving R1s - they don't
want you to use a conventional rasp buffer, they want you to use this
weird machine with a round knife.  Then they happen to mention there are
only a handful in the country, and they don't bother to tell you where.
                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 04:31:37 1994
Subject: Hot Rod ravings
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7805
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 You'd think that Hot Rod, being as Chevy-obsessed as they are, could at
least get their facts straight.  Of course, it's run by journalists
instead of car geeks, but their Tech Q&A column blithely assured a '56
Chevy owner who wanted to swap out his 265 that "General Motors has seen
fit to retain the front mount holes on its V8s through current LT1
engines."

 Evidently they don't know many early 283s and 327s didn't come with the
front mount holes; GM added them back later since it was a convenient
place to hang the power steering pump and other accessories.

 Cripes.  It's getting bad when they can't even get their Chevies
straight.


 The same column also tells us that a 5.7 TPI MAF only flows 529CFM.
I dunno what kind of pressure drop they're using, but I can stick my
fist through one.  Lots more area than a wimpy little Dominator or
Quadrajet.

[I wouldn't slam 'em too quickly.  They may be talking about the 
electrical performance.  These things tend to electrically
saturate long before there is any appreciable pressure drop.  It is
common to size these things to be operating at near their full scale
range so as to maximize the precision of the low flow measurement.
This is why I don't like MAF-based EFI.  JGD]

 They also say an '89 Camaro with the 305 and T5 had different 5th gear
ratios if it was a TBI or TPI.  TBI cars supposedly had .63 overdrive,
TPI cars supposedly had .74.  Any F-body people out there know if that's
true?


 They had a sidebar describing Bill Mitchell's new port goo, a two part
rubber you can use for casting port molds.  No price.  Since it's black,
two part, and comes in gallon paint cans, I suspect it's Chicago Latex's
stuff.  I talked to them last summer, and they want over $100/gallon for
it.  Since it doesn't expand (it's just soft rubber) a gallon is all you
get; that won't go very far.  Interestingly, Bill Mitchell Hardcore
Racing Products has the same street address as World Products, otherwise
known as the maker of Dart heads.  Amazing what you can get out of the
Vendor List and grep.
                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 04:37:28 1994
Subject: Re: some muffler maunderings
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7806
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:

>from High Performance Pontiac, Aug 92, "Silent Power" by Tom Hand

>  back pressure chart, inches of water   - 27.7 inches H2O = 1 PSI
>  2.5" exhaust system & mufflers.  Sound readings static 2200 RPM
>  pressure readings wide open at 5200 RPM.

>  dBA    in H2O        muffler
>  95      0       open
>  90      58      SuperTrapp 18
>  81      86      Dynomax 17749
>  84      90      Borla
>  84      90      Cyclone Sonic Turbo
>  85      97      Thrush CVX
>  83      104     Dynomax 17734
>  90      118     Flowmaster 42550D
>  83      125     AP XLERATOR
>  89      125     Supertrapp 12
>  90      159     Flowmaster 42551H
>  78      312     stock replacement muffler, 2.5 inlet, 2.0 outlet,
>.               oval, offset inlet, lifetime warranty - 11.25 PSI back
>.               pressure
>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

Great Dave, but c'mon.  According to the plain data, it looks like
the Flowmaster sucks gear oil.  Should've posted the E.T. from the
drag-wagon that they tested these on.  As I recall, didn't the
flowmaster come in with the fourth lowest E.T. on the drag-wagon that
they tested them on? Something like... Open, Supertrapp (w/18 disks),
Dynomax 17749, then Flowmaster.  I'll dig out the article and check.
That was a good article BTW!  Its not often you see an article that
gives good hard data, and sound experimental procedure to back it up.
The only thing that would have topped the article off was to then do the
same with a j2000 to get readings when CFM was at a minimum.

--DAVE (johnson@wrs.com)

         Ban low-performance drivers, not high-performance cars.

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Mar  3 04:46:26 1994
Subject: Tubing, moment of inertia
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 7807
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In a previous article..........
>Another interesting thing about sqaure vrs round tubing is that
>square tubing is stiffer for a given size than round.  The moment of
>inertia (as measure of stifnees of a given shape) for square tubing is
>b^4/12 and for round tubing is pi*D^4/32. For a one inch square the Ip
>would be 1/12 for round it would be pi/32.
---------------------------------------------------------
        Hmm, let's see now. 
 
The moment of inertia for a rectangular section, about its 
centroid, is the base times the height cubed all divided by 12 
or... 
 
                     b*h^3          --------
            Ic =    -------         |      |
                      12            |      |  height
                                    |      |
                                    --------
                                      base
 
BUT, we are talking about TUBING here so the moment of inertia 
of the hollow part has to be subtracted out.  In other words the 
moment of intertia calculaTed from base and height dimension of 
the "hole" in the tubing gets subtracted from the exterior moment 
of intertia calculated from the exterior dimensions.  
 
Same holds true for round x-sections...only different equations.  
BTW the moment of inertia for a circular x-