From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 00:02:14 1993
Subject: Re: hot rod 'vette
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6568
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you wrote:
: Howdy gang...

: [...]
: (We just finished a 3.8 buick -> vega conversion...  that is a _WIDE_
: engine!!!!)  Anyone have some dimensions for popular 6's??????  
:   
Did you use the fwd or rwd 3.8 buick? The fwd heads are supposed to
be narrower. (The exhausts allegedly flow better, too.) I understand
that these heads were used on the turbo 3.8 firebird for clearance.
Does anyone know what the difference in width is?

Norb Brotz                Cray Research Park    Internet: nbrotz@palm.cray.com
Sr. Programmer/Analyst    655F Lone Oak Drive   UUCP:     uunet!cray!nbrotz
Software Division         Eagan, Mn. 55121      phone:    (612) 683-5698

----------
Posted by: emory!palm.cray.com!nbrotz (Norb Brotz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 00:04:22 1993
Subject: Re:Life and My Valve Seals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6569
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	In my previous question about my missing oil, to which
Pete Sanders replied:

>>	My question, though, is about valve stem seals. My engine
>>was recently re-built 5000 miles ago, which included the block
>>being bored oversized and new pistons. I have noticed, however,
>>that I need a quart of oil about every 2500 miles. The plugs
>>aren't at all fouled, and I never see any blue smoke on start
>>up. And there are no gasket leaks.

>	Did you bore the block, or just hone and install new rings? I rebuilt
>a 305 and it took over 5k mi for the rings to seat and to get decent power.
>Oil consumption was high during that period, but now it uses ~1/2 qt every
>5k mi. It has 30k mi on it now and its never run better. Give it some extra
>time for the rings to fully form to the worn cylinder walls.

	Yeah, the block was bored .030" over, so the pistons and rings
are all new and micrometered in. (When I first started the engine up
after the re-build, lots of smoke poured out for quite a few minutes.
Had me worried that maybe I forgot a ring...)

	And Markus Strobl said:

>Jason,
>	I had the same problem with my 350 sb. I used 1 qt of oil every 2000
>miles *after* my rebuild. 2 spark plugs even had some traces of oil fouling 
>at some times. 

>I finally decided to do something about it and was told to use the 'umbrella'
>type seals that originally came from Caddillac engines, but are now available
>for Chevies.

	You wouldn't happen to have any brand names, would you? (Or do I go
to the local Chevy dealer and ask him for AC Delco umbrella seals for Chevy
small block?)

	Finally, Kevin Fultz was saying:

>>       I have a Chevy head (one head, it's a straight-6),
>> so the valve guides are built-in the head. I had the guides
>> knurled during the re-build.
> ^^^^^^^

>I wouldn't expect knurled guides to last much over 10k miles anyway.
>At least that has been my experience with a Cheby 350. I bought a
>tool to knurl the guides, but ended up with guided that were just as
>bad in no time.

>A better solution is to use a thin walled bronze insert installed. I
>have heard of these lasting 100k mi. Either that or go with new
>guides, bronze being preferable to cast iron.

	Oh, I must say the world is a silly place...before I went
about re-building my engine, I asked the general question:

	"My valve guides are worn. Do I go about knurling them, or
do I have the old guides drilled out and have bronze guides installed?
(I found a place that will do it for $9 a guide)."

	Of all those who replied, they all stated knurling would be
enough, should last me 150,000 miles, there would be no benefit to
getting bronze guides, etc.

	Since my engine has only 3000 miles on it, I will go about
looking for better valve stem seals. (Can anybody recommend name
brand ones that they think work?) If that doesn't work, one day
I'll take the head off again...


                                                    Jason

Just remember: When you got to court, you are trusting your fate
to twelve people that weren't smart enough to get out of jury
duty.

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 00:56:20 1993
Subject: hot rod 'vette
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6570
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> engine!!!!)  Anyone have some dimensions for popular 6's??????
-> Come on Dave, don't let me down!!!!  :-)

 I actually have a chart of nominal engine dimensions somewhere, but
it's not worth much.  Most engines have several different types of water
pumps and exhaust manifolds available, and the *shape* of the engine has
quite a lot to do with things.  I don't worry about shipping-crate
dimensions - I just use the old calibrated eyeball.
   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 01:06:07 1993
Subject: Any info about STEALTH (Weiand) manifold ??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6571
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 Hello guys !
 
 I'm looking for any informations about this 'new' STEALTH intake manifold
 from WEIAND. 

 Does a comparison between this & Edelbrock's PERFORMER RPM exist ??
 What is the major difference between them ?? - is there any ?
 
 Any experiences with this two ?? ....

 They claim to have a very broad RPM-Range with the STEALTH ...

 ---
 
 Werner

 KARL@fridolin.ngate.uni-regensburg.de
 BH725@cleveland.freenet.edu

 sorry, no ASCII-picture today :)

----------
Posted by: emory!fridolin.ngate.uni-regensburg.de!Karl (Werner J. Karl)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 01:11:52 1993
Subject: Re: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6572
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

That story is too funny. It is amazing how motivated you
get after a near-death experience with a crazed-toll booth
attendant, oh yeah, and the windshield event also.



 ______________________________________________________________
| THE       _        | Mark A. Gaither -- Information Engineer |
| LONE    _| ~-      | International Software Systems Inc.     |
| STAR    \, *_}     | Austin, TX USA                          |
| STATE     \(       | markg@issi.com                          |
|____________________|_________________________________________|
  

----------
Posted by: emory!issi.com!markg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 01:28:34 1993
Subject: suspension questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6573
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

greetings:
 
  the fountain of questions is once again flowing....  :?
 
  my 69 nova has separate (and non-spooling) shoulder and lap safety
belts.  how can i convert the two-belt lap-n-shoulder system to a more
modern 3 point belt?  will i be able to use the existing mounting point
for the shoulder belt?  is this a junkyard trip, or a catalog order or ?
the problem is my height: by the time i can reach the dash (by moving
the seat up), my legs are uncomfortably cramped, and with the seat at
comfortable leg length, the shoulder belt ends up looser than i prefer
when it's set so i can reach the radio..... :|
 
  now, on to some rear suspension questions:
  shock location...  the nova's rear has the passenger side shock in
front of the axle and the drivers side shock behind it.  is there a real
reason for this?  (only thing i could think of was to help deal with
torque produced by a standard 1-wheel power launch :)  in the mag popular
hot rodding (article: project cheap shot pt 1, sept 92), they moved the
shocks inboard of the springs and attached them behind the axle (stating
that this position would help the traction bars), but neglected to give
how/why/what-not-to-do or any measurements (just a few pictures).  any
clues?  also, what thickness should be used for the mounting tab (bottom)
and trunk reinforcing (top)?  any special 'lean' angle to maintain (most
rear shocks seem to be installed at some funky angle or another, i'm
assuming to get more shock length)?
 
  the rear springs (mono) are shot and need to be replaced.  i don't like
the look of ladder bars and was wondering what options i have (short of a
4 link setup).  i used to see ads in the back of some of the mag's for a
company that made leaf springs that were the equivalent of having a
built-in ladder bar (stiffer front half, i guess), but can't seem to find
them advertising anymore.  anyone heard of them, or know why they aren't
visible (product didn't work,...)? if there's a multi-leaf spring set
that does the same thing, how difficult would it be to convert to multi?
  perhaps i should have asked this part first...  how much torque does it
take to *need* ladder bars?  would a moderately stout 350 with a thm350
(w/ shiftkit) need a set, or do you need something really powerful?
rough torque numbers?  the main reason that i am worried is the stock
inline 6 barks the tires on the 1-2 shift (due to the shift kit) and the
car gets rattled pretty good in the process (subframe connectors should
help, as will new springs, but will i need more?).
 
thanks again, 
kc

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 01:38:06 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6574
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Some of you may have noticed problems getting to dixie.com the last
few days.  My internet gateway, mathcs.emory.edu, has had mail problems
for the past few days.  Supposed to be fixed now.  An unrelated problem
would occasionally cause a file not to transfer.  Seems Hayes has been
trying to extort royalties from Telebit for the use of their mickey-mouse
little guard band escape sequence (+++).  Seems Telebit 
just trashed the  part so that any occurance of +++ in a file would
cause the modem to go back into command mode.  Damn software patents!
All the modems involved have now been set to ignore "+++".

John

----------
Posted by: hotrod (The hotrod mailing list)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 02:03:59 1993
Subject: Re: RE: Tech Compression Ratio vs. Horsepower Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6575
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <_yvzhvm@dixie.com> you write:
>From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
>Subject: Re: RE: Tech Compression Ratio vs. Horsepower Question
>Date: Mon, 27 Sep 93 20:26:46 GMT
>>On an engine the burning gasoline can push the piston 'farther' without
>>having to push harder.  Sort of like getting better leverage but adding
>>more weight - you do more work but you don't notice it as much.
>>
>>Hope this helps - hope I didn't make to many mistakes :-)
>
>  To put it moer simply, take a ballon and pop it, then put the same amount 
>of air in a smaller ballon and pop it. Wich will have the bigger bang? Thus 
>the more force on the piston. Get it ?
>
>[Actually the bangs will be the same because the same amount of energy
>is released.  The higher dP/dT from the smaller balloon will make the 
>sound seem sharper and perhaps louder but the same amount of energy
>is involved in both case - assuming of course that it took the same
>amount of energy to blow up both balloons.  Bad example.
>
>Why higher compression improves efficiency and in some cases, power is
>pretty basic thermo.  The efficiency of a Carnot cycle engine (ordinary
>gas engine) is directly proportional to the ratio of the working fluid
>temperatures before and after expansion.  Higher compression causes
>faster combustion.  Faster combustion emits the same amount of heat
>over a shorter interval which raises the temperature of the working
>fluid AND it reduces heat losses through the combustion chamber walls.
>
>With high speed engines, the rate of combustion is important for another
>reason.  It is important for most combustion to conclude while the 
>expanding gases can still do useful work.  If combustion is still 
>occuring at the end of the power stroke or after the exhaust valve
>starts opening, the energy is wasted.  JGD]
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!hp.uwsuper.edu!tcullen (TARY M. CULLEN)

    You are wrong about the same amount of energy being used. The air in the 
second balloon is compressed more and when released it expands more, giving 
more energy. Same effect as a blower, tubro, or NOx. More air or smaller 
space, eather way raises compression ratio and more bang.  And just for the
record, I don't think I actualy ment to carry out the ballon thing so the 
noise wouldn't sound sharper in a hypothetical demonstration.

[Actually to be pedantic, I'm not wrong.  Since the elastic modulus of
rubber is constant over a fairly wide range, the smaller balloon would
simply expand by stretching to the same size at more or less the 
same pressure.  Still a bad example and not relevant to why higher 
compression generally yields more power in an engine.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!hp.uwsuper.edu!tcullen (TARY M. CULLEN)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 02:11:48 1993
Subject: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6576
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I painted the floor of my new garage/shop last night... 2000 sq.ft.!
My back is killing me.  I'm putting on the second coat tonight.  The
shop looks completely different now.  I can't wait to start using it!
I'm also going to to the laundry room with it as well.

Has anyone painted wood with this stuff?  I have a big wood shop bench
that I was thinking of painting if I end up with any spare paint.

---

Here is an off-the-wall engine question: What would be involved in a
natural gas conversion of a diesel engine?  Is it even possible?

Thanks,

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 02:15:07 1993
Subject: Gas Mileage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6577
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I recently rebuilt a 350 for my Monte Carlo.  It has: Comp Cam 268H,
Dart S/R heads 76cc(2.02/1.6 valves w/3 angle valve job, ported, bronze
v-guides, 1.6 Magnum roller tip rockers), Rhoads lifters, MSD ignition,
Edelbrock 625 cfm carb w/electric choke, k&n air filter, Edelbrock 2101
intake, flat top .030 over hyper-eutectic pistions.  The distributor was
glass-beaded and recurved by a local speed shop about a year ago.  I
also added a TH700-R4 overdrive tranny with a shift kit at the same
time.  I have 2.73 gears in the rear-end.

It now has 5000-6000 miles on the new engine and tranny.  I took a 200
mile triprecently.  The first 50 miles were driven on states roads at
50-55 mph with the convertor not locked up.  The remaining 150 miles
were driven on interstates with the converter locked up and an average
speed of 70mph.  I filled up at the beginning and end of my trip.  I
calculated my gas mileage to be 17mpg.  Somehow, with the overdrive
tranny and my airplane gears that seems kinda low to me.  Am I way off
base here, or is something wrong?  BTW, I just adjusted the carb using a
vacuum gauge before I took the trip.


----------
Posted by: emory!cbnewsf.cb.att.com!tkratzer (troy.d.kratzer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 10:38:57 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6578
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
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----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 13:00:35 1993
Subject: Re:Life and My Valve Seals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6579
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>>Jason,
>>	I had the same problem with my 350 sb. I used 1 qt of oil every 2000
>>miles *after* my rebuild. 2 spark plugs even had some traces of oil fouling 
>>at some times. 
>
>>I finally decided to do something about it and was told to use the 'umbrella'
>>type seals that originally came from Caddillac engines, but are now available
>>for Chevies.
>
>	You wouldn't happen to have any brand names, would you? (Or do I go
>to the local Chevy dealer and ask him for AC Delco umbrella seals for Chevy
>small block?)

I took a look in my catalogs and found the brand. Fel-pro. The catalog lists a
order number SS10058, but I don't know if this is the same as fel-pros product
number. The catalog goes on by stating that the seals work for all small-blocks
'55-'80, but don't mention your six-cylinder. If you have the same diameter
valve stems as the V8, you should be able to use them anyway.

Crane also make a stem seals that is supposed to be very good, but you have
to machine the valve guides before using them.

Markus

----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 13:14:45 1993
Subject: Re: Gas Mileage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6580
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article b2yz1af@dixie.com, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>
>I recently rebuilt a 350 for my Monte Carlo.  It has: Comp Cam 268H,
>Dart S/R heads 76cc(2.02/1.6 valves w/3 angle valve job, ported, bronze
>v-guides, 1.6 Magnum roller tip rockers), Rhoads lifters, MSD ignition,
>Edelbrock 625 cfm carb w/electric choke, k&n air filter, Edelbrock 2101
>intake, flat top .030 over hyper-eutectic pistions.  The distributor was
>glass-beaded and recurved by a local speed shop about a year ago.  I
>also added a TH700-R4 overdrive tranny with a shift kit at the same
>time.  I have 2.73 gears in the rear-end.
>
>It now has 5000-6000 miles on the new engine and tranny.  I took a 200
>mile triprecently.  The first 50 miles were driven on states roads at
>50-55 mph with the convertor not locked up.  The remaining 150 miles
>were driven on interstates with the converter locked up and an average
>speed of 70mph.  I filled up at the beginning and end of my trip.  I
>calculated my gas mileage to be 17mpg.  Somehow, with the overdrive
>tranny and my airplane gears that seems kinda low to me.  Am I way off
>base here, or is something wrong?  BTW, I just adjusted the carb using a
>vacuum gauge before I took the trip.

Sounds like a great set-up for performance/economy and 17mpg highway sounds 
way to low. I would suggest trying smaller main jets in the carb. My Holley
carb (600cfm 4bbl 4160) came with #66 primary jets. I decreased jet-size
2 numbers at a time. At #58 performance dropped. I noticed I had to give
it much more throttle to accelerate. I'm now using #60 jets and they seem
to work just fine.

I have a 350 also, with a TH350 and 3.42 gears. I usually get 20mpg on the
highway, with a bigger cam than yours. I think you should get about 22-25
mpg.

Markus  

----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 13:33:12 1993
Subject: Forwarded: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6581
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Forwarded mail follows:

	[ paint info deleted ]
---

Here is an off-the-wall engine question: What would be involved in a
natural gas conversion of a diesel engine?  Is it even possible?

Thanks,

-Bob
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 
<< yep, sure is possible...  in fact, many years ago during Rudolph Diesel's
lifetime btw, Busch-Sulzer (I *think* it was they) manufactured CNG Diesels.
the compression-induced heating of the air charge is not sufficient to ignite
the CNG spontaneously so a small amount of normal fuel oil is injected to
initiate combustion.  thus, a means of introducing/metering the CNG must be
provided as well as a vestigial fuel injection system.  there *are* conversion
kits in existence, too...  Blaine Hufnagle (Texas A&M U.) mentioned recently
(in rec.autos.tech, if memory serves) that Texas A&M is researching conversion
of some its busses to CNG.               

Walt K. >>


-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 13:49:14 1993
Subject: Re: RE: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6582
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

X-News: woods alt.hotrod:2278

>From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
>Subject:RE: That Taboo Subject...
>Date: Fri, 24 Sep 93 18:03:33 GMT
>Message-ID:

>While we're on the subject, does anyone know what the emissions test readings
>would be if the test probe was left out in the open air? The reason I ask is
>this, I took one of my cars through yesterday, the seam on the pipe from the
>cat to the muffler has rusted through and the muffler has a 3" diameter hole in
>it. I know that the exhaust system is supposed to be in complete working order,
>but I thought I'd try it anyways. The car is quiet at idle. The readings were
>as follows: HC = 0000ppm, CO = 00.00%, CO2 = 9.4%. So is the car really that
>clean or are we measuring atmosphere here? Past years, the readings were low,
>but not like this. (BTW the car is a '87 Nissan 200SX SE 3.0L V6.)
>
>Ron
>
>----------
>Posted by: "Mellum Ron" 

The emissions machines can only be fooled to a certain extent, the CO2 needs
to be around 6.5% or greater to be a valid test, if too much air gets in
and dilutes the mixture, the test would be invalid, with the readings 
indicated, the mixture is probably diluted by 30% as a good running engine
at operating temp and a hot cat is usually around 13% CO2 and the CO and
HC readings are really low anyway. As long as the engine is properly tuned,
read that as a little lean.

WJG , Reg Ma EPA. 42257

----------
Posted by: Jason 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 13:54:11 1993
Subject: Re: hot rod 'vette
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6583
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Norb Brotz sez:
>: (jC said)[...]
>: (We just finished a 3.8 buick -> vega conversion...  that is a _WIDE_
>: engine!!!!)  Anyone have some dimensions for popular 6's??????  
>:   
>Did you use the fwd or rwd 3.8 buick? The fwd heads are supposed to
>be narrower. (The exhausts allegedly flow better, too.) I understand
>that these heads were used on the turbo 3.8 firebird for clearance.
>Does anyone know what the difference in width is?

Uuhhh... the engine supposedly came out of a '79 regal, so I assume
it was real wheel drive.  Don't know about the different widths for
fwd/rwd (not a buick type of dude); however, I do know that the 3.8
we put in that vega was wider than a small block chevy! (about an inch or
so, not a whole lot.)

jC.
_________________________________________________________
James C. Akers         FiberCom, Inc.        Roanoke, VA
jca@fibercom.com     uunet!fibercom!jca     (703)342-6700

----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James C. Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 13:58:41 1993
Subject: Hot rod Chevette
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6584
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Somebody wrote saying that there were v6 Chevettes built. I don't think so.
You must be thinking of another car. The chevettes only came with 4 bangers

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 14:03:38 1993
Subject: Eleven Heaven!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6585
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                          SUBJECT:  Eleven Heaven!
I just had to brag to somebody!  ... 

I've been looking to get my little V6 street GN in the 11s all year, and it
finally happened last weekend!  A little background ... the car is stock
appearing, except for chrome work under the hood and GNX style wheels.  It
rides and drives like Gramma's Regal with full interior, full insulation, and
T-Tops.  I drive it to the track (about 65 miles each way) on race days, drive
it around town on nice days, and it gets 16-18 mpg in the city (depending on my
right foot) and 23-25 mpg on the highway.

Best of all, my runs were on the Buick Performance Weekend at our track!  We
had pretty good weather.  Saturday was beautiful ...  mid 70s, 50% humidity and
barometer of 29.92.

First run ....

60 FT:   1.717
330 FT:   4.932
660 FT:   7.659
MPH(660): 90.171
990 FT:   9.939

E.T.     11.985
MPH:   113.537

The car acted a little differently than I was used to, due to the set of ATR
headers I added and I had to mess around with building boost at the line, hence
the mediocre 60 foot time.  It seems to spool slower from 0-5 psi, but really
flashes up from 8-12 psi.  No retard at all, except for a blip on the 2->3
shift of 4 degrees.

I made a couple more ~11.98 passes, tuning the fuel pressure and experimenting
with manually shifting the car on the 2->3 shift.

Then I got this run ....

60 FT:   1.627
330 FT:   4.801
660 FT:   7.502
MPH(660): 90.440
990 FT:   9.787

E.T.     11.853
MPH:   113.112

ALL RIGHT!!!! Needed a touch more fuel pressure on the top end because the OTC
showed it was a little lean.

Next run ... 1 more pound of pressure.

60 FT:   1.648
330 FT:   4.798
660 FT:   7.477
MPH(660): 91.434
990 FT:   9.732

*********
E.T.     11.775
MPH:   113.441
*********

YAAHHHOOOO!  After I quit doing handsprings and cart wheels ... I turned up the
pressure for one more run ... unfortunately, they closed the lanes.

SECOND DAY
==========

It was down right cold with temps around 60 degrees all day.  Humidity stayed
pretty high ... 60-70% all day and the barometer was 29.96.  The track wasn't
hooking very well since it had rained over night and the cold wasn't helping it
to dry out.

My sixty foot times were all 1.69-1.73 due to the slippery track and the fact
that my poor ol' 10"x26"x15" Mickey Thompson slicks are shot.  It's been a long
summer, and I'm pretty merciless in the burnout box!  <*grin*>

A summary of the runs:

Run 1:  11.998 @ 113.064
Run 2:  11.995 @ 112.209 (I screwed up on the 2->3 shift)
Run 3:  11.964 @ 113.104
Run 4:  11.935 @ 113.200

If I could have got my normal 1.60-1.63 sixty foot times, those would have been
11.80s for sure and maybe a couple 11.70s.  The car has really come around!

I'm really happy with the 11.77!  Out of a little V6 street car, too!



-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  A *BOOST* of Buick Performance

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 14:09:17 1993
Subject: For Sale- Buick Parts
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6586
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   For Sale: Buick Parts
Miscellaneous Buick Parts - mostly 55-57 & some Riviera

More info, call:

Wayne Bloechl
(408) 722-1934






----------
Posted by: "Sharen Rund" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 14:14:08 1993
Subject: RE: Gas Mileage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6587
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I recently rebuilt a 350 for my Monte Carlo.  It has: Comp Cam 268H,
>Dart S/R heads 76cc(2.02/1.6 valves w/3 angle valve job, ported, bronze
>v-guides, 1.6 Magnum roller tip rockers), Rhoads lifters, MSD ignition,
>Edelbrock 625 cfm carb w/electric choke, k&n air filter, Edelbrock 2101
>intake, flat top .030 over hyper-eutectic pistions.  The distributor was
>glass-beaded and recurved by a local speed shop about a year ago.  I
>also added a TH700-R4 overdrive tranny with a shift kit at the same
>time.  I have 2.73 gears in the rear-end.
>
>calculated my gas mileage to be 17mpg.  Somehow, with the overdrive
>tranny and my airplane gears that seems kinda low to me.  Am I way off
>base here, or is something wrong?  BTW, I just adjusted the carb using a
>vacuum gauge before I took the trip.


Just a few thoughts.  Without closed loop fuel injection the carb must be
tunned very carefully to get the milage of fuel injection and to keep the
drivability.

I'm not sure if the Edlebrock carbs have separate adjustability for the 
power circuit and main fuel circuit but on a Holley to vary the relation-
ship between the power circuit and the main circuit you need to drill-out
passages (normally not done).  So this makes the tuning of the Holley
purely a function of jet size.  Adjusting the idle mixture will have a very
minor effect on the main circuits air/fuel ratio.  Also Holley carbs come
jetted a little on the rich side (better to err rich than lean).  What I
don't understand is how a speed shop can tune a distributer without knowing
the rest of the car/combo?

If I were you I'd tune the carb for max hp.  Either max drag strip speed or
acceleration runs from lets say 50 - 70 mph in 2nd gear with the converter
locked (do you have a switch?).  Disconnect the vacumm advance (just 
another variable) and set your timing for 32-36 degrees total advance.
Acceleration runs should be done on the same strech of road with the same
wind.

Change your jets to either maximize your top speed (at the dragstrip) or
minimize the time required to accelerate (pick an interval that allows
repeatability).  Change all the jets at the same time (decrease the 
primaries and secondaries by the same number - on Holley never more than
3 numbers at a time).

Once you've established the optimum jet setting now you can stagger the jet
size.  If you want to run a little bit lean for normal driving and then 
get the full richness when you go full throttle make the primaries a little
leaner and the secondaries richer.  I know someone who runs 10 sizes leaner
on his Holley square-bore carb's primary as compared to the secondaries.

To insure that you have not gone too lean you want to test the engine under
no load.  With the engine running slowly increase the rpms.  Don't open
the throtle fast enough for the accelerator pump to enrich the mixture (
maybe disconnect it)  There should be no hesitation in the engine.  It
should be smooth - any hesitation or stumble at part throttle indicates
a leaning condition.

Your vacumm advance should be the last thing you tune.  I'd add as much
vacumm advance as possible without bring on pinging.

The ultimate way to tune for fuel economy would be to use an oxygen
sensor.  You could probably buy one for a $150 or you could build one
for a lot less.

Brings up a question.  Is it possibly to mount a standard oxygen sensor
on each header primary pipe?  Is this worth it.  The idea being you
can equalize the mixture distribution to each cylinder.

If you ask it 17mpg is way off... My stock chevy blazer - with 33" tires
and 3.07 gears (something like 1000 rpm at 55) gets 15 mpg at 55-65
measured over 450 miles (Washington DC to Troy,New York - through Penn.)

Hope this helps
Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 14:18:59 1993
Subject: That dirty subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6588
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Now here's a purely theoretical question.

If I have a closed loop, computer controled fuel injection system; working
cats; and a working EGR what part of the proposed emission test would I
fail?  Control of the ignition timing and EGR should limit the NOx and 
good ignition + cats + perfect air/fuel mixture should limit HC's.  
Would this be enough?

Mechanical compression would be limited by the cheap gas (9.5 let say).
Aluminum heads and a good cooling system should also keep NOx low.

What else am I missing?

Actually a tight motor with PCV valve and stock vapor recovery system
should meet all the emission requirements.  Now figure a way to start
it all up quickly (reach operating temperature) and you'd pass all the
EPA requirements right?

Just wondering
Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 14:38:36 1993
Subject: Re: Switch to turn off Alternator 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6589
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Thu, 23 Sep 93 18:25 EDT
> From:  emory!hp.uwsuper.edu!tcullen (TARY M. CULLEN)
> 


>.......you will loose that 
>extra .001 of a second.  Good Luck, every little bit helps.

>[Let me scale this for everyone.....
>.........  Figure in the efficiency
>and 1.5-2 hp still is more than enough to drive a standard alternator....
>...  JGD]


Before you disconnect the alternator, consider my discovery the other night.
We had a small block Chevy on the dyno with an MSD.  To supply power we
always use a fully charged battery, and leave the charger running to
produce 13.8 volts.  Well, the other night we forgot to turn on the charger,
and the engine was down about 17 horsepower.  The charger went back on
and the power came back.  We then began to experiment.  Anything less than
13.4 caused a significant power loss, more than 14.0 did not help.  Now,
these were not the most efficient combustion chambers because the racing
class required mostly stock parts, so they were very sensitive to MSD
ignition.  More efficient chambers are less sensitive to the MSD, but
it is still more than 2 HP.

You should check out the number of race cars, in all classes, that run
alternators.  You will be quite surprised how many use them.  When we
are looking for that extra 0.01 second, we make sure the alternator is
working.

Ignition systems are power hogs and sensitve to voltage, especially the MSD.
Don't skimp when feeding them, it will really cost you.


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 16:37:05 1993
Subject: Re: Mustang list
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6590
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Derek P wants to know the Mustang list number.
It is -- Mustangs@cup.hp.com

The moderator is on vacation for a few weeks. So sit tight for a while till
he gets back

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  1 16:42:50 1993
Subject: port repair questions on aluminum manifolds
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6591
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	Ok, to make a long story short, I bought a used crower FI manifold
thru a classified after getting a verbal description. Seller "forgot" 
to tell me that 2 ports had been overly port matched and filled back up
with epoxy. When I removed the plates he included that were on manifold
surfaces to compensate for angle cut heads, the epoxy broke out revealing
itself to me. Seller first said "return ok" then refused my return cod.
(This was NOT a USENET sale, it was via Nat'l Dragster. This was also
my first bad UPS COD experience. Further, since he's a business, the 
UPS driver dropped the package, he OPENED IT, told ME about damage in 
the package (a crushed stack) claiming an UNDAMAGED BOX, RESEALED the 
box and GAVE IT BACK TO THE UPS DRIVER in his afternoon pickup. I know
 "they dont do that" but I've heard similar stories before. BOTH him 
and the woman that works his ship/receive SAID thats what they did too!
 (Ohh to have that on a legal tape!?!?!?) The box was obviously cut open
and resealed too. (I've left it intact so I can show UPS should they ever
return my calls). I've filed a BBB complaint, and am waiting for UPS to
return my call. (Its across state lines too)

	Enough crying, it may be that I'm just stuck with it. My question is this:
does anyone know what kind of epoxy will:

	1. stand up to gas or alcohol (nozzles above throttle plates so
	area to be filled is in contact with fuel
	
	2. Won't break out or crack under operating temps.

	3. will be strong enough to seal the gasket to the head without
	breaking out. (Port is real thin on the bottom edge in one case 
	and real thin in the sidewall in another.) Would it be worthwhile
	to weld a small lip inside the port to give the epoxy something to 
	"push" against. I think this could be done with little to no heat
	warpage on the manifold. I'm hesitant to fully weld it up cause I cant do
	aluminum and I'm hesitant to get a tig job done for fear of warpage due
	to heating. Plus epoxy is easier to work.

	I'm real leery about epoxy (besides, I paid a "pristine" price for 
this thing and also had a missing linkage arm and a broken throttle shaft
butterfly screw too.)

	I guess its inevitable that sooner or later I'd get burned on a 
used parts mail order deal but ouch, this one hurts.

	I'll take legal suggestions too if anyone has any. I havent talked
to a lawyer yet, the cost might be prohibitive. 

	Anyone need a crower smallblock 2.5 inch manifold that has larger that 
stock ports? you only have to port 6 of 8 ports  :-)

[I had to fill in machining FUs in the throttle body of the ProJection
I bought a few years ago.  I used JB-weld.  Since this is a TBI system,
the epoxy is gas-wetted.  2 years and no problems.  I pulled the throttle
body off a couple of weeks ago to replace it with something else.  
Epoxy is still securely attached.

A trick to making the stuff stick better.  Drill a number of small (1/32
or smaller) blind holes in the aluminum.  Take a sewing needle and cut the eye
in half so the end of the needle is now a small wishbone.  Place
several strands of fiberglass in the end of the needle, dip it in the 
epoxy and push it down in the hole.  Repeat for all holes.  Then
warm the aluminum and apply the epoxy filler.  For added strength
add some short chop fiberglass strands.  Heating JB-weld to about 125 
degrees makes it much easier to work.  Smooth the epoxy as well as you
can.  Then wet your finger and gently smooth the surface.  If you keep
your finger real wet, the epoxy won't stick to it.  The finish will become
almost glassy.  Cure it at 150 degrees for a couple of hours.
Grind if necessary.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct  2 09:45:07 1993
Subject: RE: port repair questions on aluminum manifolds
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6592
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>	3. will be strong enough to seal the gasket to the head without
>	breaking out. (Port is real thin on the bottom edge in one case 
>	and real thin in the sidewall in another.) Would it be worthwhile
>	to weld a small lip inside the port to give the epoxy something to 
>	"push" against. I think this could be done with little to no heat
>	warpage on the manifold. I'm hesitant to fully weld it up cause I cant do
>	aluminum and I'm hesitant to get a tig job done for fear of warpage due
>	to heating. Plus epoxy is easier to work.

I've always heard that an advantage to aluminum cylinder heads was - if you
made a mistake it could be fixed.  Although I think its possible to warp
aluminum if I remember my basic materials course cast aluminum is normally
very evenly stressed - actually not stressed at all.  If this is how the
aluminum manifolds and heads are then all you have to do is weld and let it
cool slowely.  Aluminum is also supposed to be a material you can weld 
that doesn't build stress right next to the weld ( you know how on steel
the weld never breaks - just the area right next to the weld).

If I'm way off please let me know (If I'm partially off let me know as
well :-))

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct  2 09:57:35 1993
Subject: Re: hot rod chevete
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6593
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> the I-Mark was a metricized copy of the Chevette [converted to metric
-> system].  Every part on the I-Mark looked like a came off the
-> Chevette, except it was slightly different size; nothing was
-> transferrable.

 The Chevette was originally an Opel something-or-other.  The first ones
were imported from Germany; later ones were assembled in Georgia.  All
Chevettes were metric.

 The Opel Kadette was sold here as the Opel Kadette, the Buick/Opel
something, and the Opel-Isuzu.  They were all basically the same car,
built in either Germany or Japan.
          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct  2 10:09:08 1993
Subject: Any info about STEALTH (Weiand) manifold ??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6594

X-GiFrom rsiatl!hotrod Sat Oct  2 20:48:08 1993
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Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Saturday, Oct 02 03:17:45
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Approved: jgd@dixie.com


-> Here is an off-the-wall engine question: What would be involved in a
-> natural gas conversion of a diesel engine?  Is it even possible?

 It's been done.  There are some SAE papers on CNG Diesels, including
papers on burning alcohol and (so help me) pulverized coal slurry.

 I dunno what the efficiencies were, but evidently you can run a Diesel
on damned near anything.  Dunno about what kind of tweaks were necessary
though.
                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Sat Oct  2 20:48:37 1993
Subject: suspension questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6595
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> my 69 nova has separate (and non-spooling) shoulder and lap safety
-> belts.  how can i convert the two-belt lap-n-shoulder system to a
-> more modern 3 point belt?

 You mean you want to add inertia-reel belts?  Might as well not bother
to wear them at all, since they usually don't work when you need them.


-> comfortable leg length, the shoulder belt ends up looser than i
-> prefer when it's set so i can reach the radio..... :|

 That's the penalty for real seat belts.  I can't even reach the
ignition switch in the Capri when I'm autocrossing.


-> shock location...  the nova's rear has the passenger side shock in
-> front of the axle and the drivers side shock behind it.  is there a
-> real reason for this?  (only thing i could think of was to help deal

 It's popular in lots of cars.  It does almost nothing - the lever arm
is too short to provide any leverage in the first place, and OEM shocks
aren't quite as stiff as what comes on the average screen door.  It
doesn't *hurt* anything, but any positive effect is strictly
advertising.


-> hot rodding (article: project cheap shot pt 1, sept 92), they moved
-> the shocks inboard of the springs and attached them behind the axle
-> (stating that this position would help the traction bars),

 The only thing it would help would be to provide clearance to mount the
bars.  The shocks go as far out (close to the tire) as you can get.
Moving them inboard reduces their effectiveness on single wheel bump.


-> and trunk reinforcing (top)?  any special 'lean' angle to maintain
-> (most rear shocks seem to be installed at some funky angle or
-> another, i'm assuming to get more shock length)?

 Straight up and down is the way to go if there's room.  The weird lean
angles are usually to get adequate back seat or trunk room.
                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Sat Oct  2 20:49:00 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6602
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Here are some answers for the 69 Nova questions: 
 
The disk brakes of the camaro will fit the nova.  I would advise you to
	by a car with disk brakes for parts, this is what I did otherwise it
	will cost a lot to buy all the parts needed to switch to disk brakes.

	A good source for parts is Harmon's Chevrolet Restorations Parts,
	highway 27 North, Geneva, Indiana 46740 . They carry Nova and camaro
	parts.

	The rear sway bat of a camaro will fit a nova.  I would also put on 
	multi leaf rear spring unless you want the rear to sag.  But you might
	want to check out the new fiberglass rear springs for the camaro they
	are lighter and have more spring ratio.

Hope this gives you some ideas
-R.B

(repost)




----------
Posted by: "[ Be whatever you want, but always be you. ]............." 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Sat Oct  2 20:49:15 1993
Subject: RE: Gas Mileage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6599
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

{ Mailer delted body of message: respoding to Edelbrock carb section }

Yes, the late-model Edelbrock carbs have several adjustments.

*Primary jet size
*Secondary jet size
*Accelerator pump arm pivot point
*Multitude of two-step needles for main jet
*Springs to control action of needles for main jet.

The combination of these lets you tune static primary and secondary 
mixture, transition point between the two, and a few characteristics
of the acc. pump.

Tuning requires a good #2 straight, and I HIGHLY recommend a hemostat
for needle clip changes and jet retreival.  I also recommend a four
wire slip-on oxygen sensor [ detailed in a previous post ] with an 
adjustable heater voltage, or the 1000x-more-expensive Fluke
ScopeMeter.  Very handy for top-plate screw re-installation is a snap
style screw holder .

Keep a fire extingusher handy, as you have to remove the fuel line, 
and it always leaks.

Obviously, you need the book that goes with the carb.  It does not
cover all the possible needle/jet combos.  I never did figure out what
the calculation was for fuel delivery, but imagine it was a
non-linear combination of annular area and the sum of annular
circumferences.  Anybody know for sure?  I'd like to write a
spreadsheet application for this some time.  

Better yet, I'd be delighted to just use somebody else's.  Send me 
email if you have one.

Gee Whiz, this type of research sounds like a PE article....


Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Sat Oct  2 20:49:24 1993
Subject: Gas Mileage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6597
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


[engine specs deleted - sounds like a fine motor/trans/rear to me!]

-> mile triprecently.  The first 50 miles were driven on states roads at
-> 50-55 mph with the convertor not locked up.  The remaining 150 miles
-> were driven on interstates with the converter locked up and an

 Be careful driving the T700 with the convertor not locked.  The 700
convertor is rather loose and inefficient, and can cause overheating of
the trans if you do it too much.


-> calculated my gas mileage to be 17mpg.  Somehow, with the overdrive
-> tranny and my airplane gears that seems kinda low to me.  Am I way
-> off base here, or is something wrong?  BTW, I just adjusted the carb
-> using a vacuum gauge before I took the trip.

 All that will do is set your idle mix.  The Carter is a *much* more
sophisticated device than your average Holley; you can set the cruise
mixture by fiddling with the needles or lifter spring.  Sounds like you
might be rich at cruise - a stiffer spring or larger diameter needles
will fix that.

 The part about having your distributor "recurved" is suspicious as
well.  The typical old-timey "performance" curve was fine for flatheads
on 100-octane fuel, but it well and truly sucks for fuel economy.  You
basically want NO centrifugal advance until around 1000 RPM, coming in
smoothly until about 3000 RPM, for a total of maybe 6 degrees.  Then you
want LOTS of vacuum advance.  There are literally dozens of different
vacuum advance modules for the GM distributors.  A typical smog can will
start advancing at 12" Hg to a total of 5 degrees at 15".  This is
worthless for economy and not worth much for power either.  The way to
go is to order the old 409-6V canister, which ranges from 5" to 15",
with a total of TWENTY degrees advance.  For maximum economy, you're
running slightly lean with a lot of advance.

 You can set the Carter to stoich at idle, lean at cruise, and rich at
high RPM, just by fiddling the rods.  The only way to do that with a
Holley is to bring a bucket of metering blocks or shell out $200 for a
Weber jet plate.

 My wife's '73 Capri had a 283 Chevy, four speed, 2.56 rear, 500 AFB and
409 advance, and delivered 29mpg at 75mph.  You might not get your Monte
up that high, but you should see low-mid 20s if you tune it right.
                                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Sat Oct  2 20:49:50 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6601
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: hot rod chevete
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <4nwz3db@dixie.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 1993 00:24:16 GMT
Lines: 17

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>One other thing is that Chevettes were available from the factory with V-6's.
>I saw them at a dealer, on the road, and for sale.  It was the later part of
>the Chevette run.  I think it was the 2.8l V-6.  Check a junk yard for the
>pieces.

Uh, well, no.... Sorry, but they never did.  It was just a "Chevrolet Product
Promotion" car that never quite made production.  I think that you might be
thinking of Citations, and not Chevettes.  Let me know if I'm wrong, but I'm
almost certain on this one.  Later.

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Sat Oct  2 20:50:13 1993
Subject: throttle hesitation
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6598
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	I'd like to get some pointers on fine-tuning my two Chevys.  I want
to recurve the distributors for maximum performance and mileage.  I'd like
some opinions on what the advance should be for idle, 2000 rpm, 3000 rpm,
4000 rpm, etc.   What rpm should give me full advance,  when should the
vacuum advance start coming in, what should the total degrees of advance be?

	My '70 Corvette has an .030" over 350 with 10.25:1 compression,
Q-Jet, headers, balanced, and  a pretty hot cam (something like 290 duration
with about .490" lift.)

	My '69 Camaro is also an .030"-over 350 with a Q-Jet and headers, but
it has 9:1 compression and a milder cam.   268 duration with .460" lift.  

	Both cars have gobs of power when you floor it, but they have a
sluggish feel at low/mid rpm range.  I assume part of this is due to the
cams, but I think there's some sort of timing/fuel mixture problems.  I'm
going to try leaning them both out a little because my smog-check printouts
show them to be idling on the rich side.  I would really like to get a more
responsive throttle feel in both cars.
I'd also like to get something a lot better than 13 mpg!

	In a '67 Impala I used to own, I just put in lighter springs on the
centrifical advance and got instant gratification.  That little 283 was
amazingly fast for its size.  It had a Holley spread-bore replacement on a
327 manifold and some headers.  With that setup, it had the most responsive
"feel" of any car I've ever driven.  When you pressed on the pedal, you got
instant power.  Also, on the 283, the more high performance stuff I did to
it, the better the mileage -- It got a pitiful 12mpg when it had a 2bbl and
stock single exhaust, but after the Holley, headers, and recurved distributor
I got 18 - 21 mpg!   

	The two Q-Jet eqipped 350s always feel like they're a little sluggish
to slight changes in throttle -- is that the fault of the Q-Jets, timing, and
fuel mixture?  If I'm cruising along at say 30mph in my Camaro and decide
that suddenly I want to go 45, the car hesitates.  There seems to be no
middle-of-the-road between a slow, plodding acceleration and a flat out WOT
drag race. What are the critical things to give the car a more RESPONSIVE
throttle touch?  Q-Jets are a pain to work on, but maybe that's what I need
to do.  I think the carb problems are solely in the primaries.  At wide open
throttle, I have NO COMPLAINTS!  

	Thanks for any pointers,

	Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Sat Oct  2 20:50:34 1993
Subject: amateur drag racing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6600
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I haven't drag raced (legally) in about five years.  The closest track is
Sears Point (in Northern California), but it's about one and a half hours
away.  I'd really like to drag one of my cars there soon, but I want to make
sure I'm prepared.  Will I need to take Rallye Sport trim rings and hubcaps
off first?  Is there any special battery hold down rules.  Are convertibles
still legal?  Do I need a helmet?  Is there anything else that they're going
to inspect for, like a driveshaft loop? 

The last time I raced my Corvette, it wasn't running great, but my first run
was something like 12.7 seconds.  It was a Wednesday "grudge match" night.  I
put 12.6 seconds as my dial in time, but then kept getting low 13 second
passes.  Then some guy told me I couldn't race because I didn't have all the
legal stuff to be in the 12 second class.  Now my car is running a lot better
and feels much quicker, so I'm confident I could run 12s again.  Will they
just tell me I can't race it?  It's a convertible, doesn't even have shoulder
belts, and is stock other than having around 370 horsepower instead of 300.

My '69 Camaro has lousier rear-end gearing and no posi, so it'll probably be
in the low 13 second range.  It has shoulder belts, but no headrests.  The
Enkei rims have spinners, which would probably have to be removed.  

Will I be able to race either of these cars without adding safety stuff or
wearing a helmet?

Who makes the rules, the NHRA?  Or does each track make up their own rules.

I just want to have some fun, maybe even take along a passenger for the ride.
It's a blast sitting at the starting line and feeling like a pro for a few
seconds.

Also, I never did figure out exactly the ettiquette for "staging" at the
line.  Who stages first?  How do you know when they're going to give you the
green light.  I remember getting caught off guard, "Hey, the light's green --
with the guy motioning for me to GO!  "Go, idiot, GO!"

Ten or fifteen years ago, I could always find some goof that would be willing
to drag race me on the boulevard.  Since then, about a million more people
have moved into the bay area and they all drive Japanese econoboxes and the
dreaded mini-vans.  I feel like an outcast from society roaring along in my
5.7 liter cruisers.  I wish more people with older cars would hit the
streets.  It seems the only times I see older cars are at car shows.  There's
usually too much traffic to really enjoy driving.  Early in the morning on
Sundays is about the only time you have enough room in front of you to really
stomp on it.  With so few older muscle cars actually on the road, I find it a
total waste of time for legislaters to be so intent on making EVERY POSSIBLE
performance upgrade to those cars illegal.  If one out of ten thousand cars
on the road has a Holley instead of a Q-Jet, what the hell difference is it
going to make.  The old cars are doing well dropping dead on their own, so
why do the legislaters need to help by making laws to pound them into the
ground?  In the past two months, I wasted over $200.00 getting smog checks
and renewing my registrations on two cars.  The whole thing is a scam to
bring in taxes without calling them taxes.  Why don't they just take the
$200.00 and plant a dozen trees?  Out of the zillions of cars on the road, I
bet 99% of them were made between about '85 and '93.  What the hell
difference could it make to let some guy drive his ancient car without a
stupid "visual inspection".  So what if he doesn't have a snorkel tube going
to his manifold hot-air stove!  Like it's really going to make a difference
when he only drives it once a month.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct  4 05:45:45 1993
Subject: Triptane revisited
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6603
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Over the last week there has been a discussion on sci.chem about octane
boosters, and finally someone brought up triptane as the highest octane
fuel available.  I added a summary of the discussions here some months ago,
and Bruce Hamilton responded with a very complete article which, in brief,
says that triptane is most notable for its extremely high sensitivity to
tetraethyl lead, and only has an octane (performance number) of 112 by
itself.  I thought y'all might be interested, and a few of you might not
regularly read sci.chem, so here is Bruce's article:

[begin quote]
In Article <28ftgcINN3jl@zephyr.grace.cri.nz>
srgxbhh@grv.grace.cri.nz writes:

I apologise in following up on my own post, but I wandered over
to our library and checked out triptane. I thought you might
like the references. 

[ all previous triptane data deleted ]

>If people start to introduce performance numbers, they should be very
>careful to ensure the numbers do not accidently include the extremely
>high sensitivity to lead ( known as the "lead response" of the 
>compound)  unless they are specifically discussing addition to 
>formulated leaded gasolines  such as Aviation Gasolines ( except the
>100 Low Lead grade ). Note that alcohols can have negative lead 
>responses.

Well, my guess was right, triptane ( like many other iso-alkanes )
does have a high lead response, and it was evaluated during WWII
as an avaition gasoline additive. I should perhaps recap the octane
ratings here to thoroughly bore you all. Remember that octane ratings
are a measure of the ability of the fuel to prevent the undesirable
self-ignition of unburnt gases ahead of the spark-initiated flame 
front.

Motor Gasolines

1. Research Octane Rating ( RON ) -appropriate for general law-abiding
   driving around town.
2. Delta 100 RON - the volatile fraction of gasoline, necessary for
   good acceleration/high loads on carburetted engines where manifold
   separation of volatiles can occur.
3. Motor Octane (MON) - sustained high speed driving, went out of fashion
   in the 1950-60s, but came back after Germans experienced engine
   damage during their high-speed autobahn runs.
4. Road Octane - the actual octane requirement of the engine under
   the test conditions. Determined on the road by using different
   octane blends until knock appears.
5. Blending octane - this is the amount the octane will increase by
   when a certain % ( usually 20% ) is added to a base fuel 
   ( usually an unleaded refinery stream or 60:40 iso-octane/n-heptane 
    mix )
All of the above use n-heptane = 0 and iso-octane ( 2,2,4 
trimethylpentane ) = 100.  Today many countries use RON+MON/2 as
the pump rating of motor gasoline. The difference between RON and
MON is known as the Sensitivity, because it indicates the sensitivilty 
of the fuel to changes in operating conditions. The RON, delta RON,
and MON are are rated on single cylinder, variable compression ratio
CFR engines. Details in ASTM D2699, and D2700 for the curious.
Generally the RON is about 5 - 8 units higher than the MON 

Aviation Gasoline

Performance Number =indicates the maximum knock-free power
   obtainable from a fuel compared to iso-octane = 100. Thus
   a PN=150 indicates that an engine designed to utilise the fuel
   can obtain 150% of the knock-limited power of iso-octane at
   the same mixture ratio. This is an arbitrary scale based on
   iso-octane + varying amounts of TEL, derived from a survey
   of engines decades ago. This uses a superch
Aviation Number = An obsolete method, now replaced by the Motor
   method used for motor gaslines, which includes a correlation
   table that allows aviation numbers to be derived from MON
   ( they are numerically very similiar ).

Aviation gasoline PNs are rated used variations of mixture strengh
to obtain the maximum knock-limited power in a supercharged 
engine. This can be extended to provide mixture response curves
which define the maximum boost ( rich about 11:1 stoic ) and 
minumum boost ( weak about 16:1 stoic ) before knock.
The aviation fuels are rated by two numbers eg 100/130 and 115/145
The first is the Aviation Number (essentially the Motor Octane Number)
and the second the Performance Number ( supercharge method ) They
are also known as the "lean" and "rich" ratings respectively. 

Well, if you've waded through all that, then you might wonder where
triptane ( 2,2,3 trimethylbutane ) fits in.

Well, in WWII there was a major effort to increase the power of the
aviation engines an increasing octane had dramatic effects on engines
that could be adjusted to utilise the fuel ( by changing boost 
pressure). There was a 12% increase in cruising speed, 40% increase in
rate of climb, 20% increase in ceiling, and 40% increase in payload 
for a DC-3 if the fuel went from 87 to 100 Octane, and further 
increases if the engine could handle 100+ PN fuel. 
A 12 cylinder allison aircraft engine was operated on a 60% blend of
triptane in 100 octane leaded gasoline to produce 2500hp when the
rated take-off horsepower with 100 octane leaded was 1500hp.

Triptane was first shown to have high octane in 1926 as part of the
General Motors Research Laboratories investigations (1). As further
interest developed gallon quantities were made in 1938, and a full
size production plant completed in late 1943. The fuel was tested,
and the high lead sensitivity resulted in power outputs up to 4 times
that of iso-octane, and as much as 25% fuel economy over iso-octane.(2) 

All of this sounds incredibly good, but then, as now, the cost of 
octane enhancement has to be considered, and the plant producing
triptane was not really viable. the fuel was fully evaluated in
the aviation test engines, and it was under the aviation test 
conditions where mixture strength is varied that the high power levels
were observed over a narrow range of engine adjustment. If turbine
engines had not appeared then maybe triptane would have use an octane
agent in leaded aviation gasolines, however significant design changes
would have to be made to engines to utilise the high anti-knock 
rating. 

As an unleaded additive, it wasn't that much different to
other isoalkanes, consequently the normal manufacturing processes for
avaition gasolines are alkylation of unsaturated C4s with isobutane
to give a highly iso-paraffinic product, and/or aromatization of
naphthenic fractions to produce aromatic hydrocarbons possessing
excellent rich-mixture anti-knock properties.

So, the myth that triptane was the wonder anti-knock agent that
would provide heaps of power arose. In reality, it was probably
the best of the iso-alkanes ( remember we are comparing it to
iso-octane which just happened to be worse than most other 
iso-alkanes), but it wasn't _that_ different from other members.
It was targeted, and produced, for supercharged Aviation engines
that could adjust their mixture strength, used highly leaded fuel,
and wanted short period of high power for takeoff, regardless of 
economy. If your street car fits that description, and you want to
use triptane regardless of cost-effective octane enhancement...

References
(1) Lovell, W.G., Campbell, J.M., and Boyd T.A., Ind.Eng.Chem.
    v 23 p26 (1931)
(2) The effect of the molecular structure of fuels on the power and
    efficiency of internal combustion engines. Charles F. Kettering.
    Ind.Eng.Chem v36 n12 p1079-1085 (1944)
(3) Knocking Characteristics of Pure hydrocarbons 
    ASTM Special technical Publication 225  ( about 1960 )
    This lists values that are more relevant to modern automobile
    gasolines. Triptane = 112 RON, 112 MON, 

I highly recommend (2), not just because of it's illustrious author,
but because it details the history of triptane, with performance 
graphs. Why is life so short that I never get time to read the early
scientific journals, they're more full of knowledge than todays
jargon-filled, expensive specialist publications. :-(  

    Bruce Hamilton

[end quote]

Cheers,
Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

[I might add to this excellent summary that Gen Dolittle of Tokyo 
bombing fame was the guiding force behind 100 octane avgas becoming
the standard military fuel for WWII.  Many historians call this 
decision one of the greatest strategic decisions of the WWII air war
because of the performance and range boost it gave our planes.
Every hotrodder should observe a moment of silence for Gen Dolittle
who died last week, for most of what we enjoy today in high
octane fuels was researched and developed in WWII under his tutelage.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct  4 13:42:40 1993
Subject: WEIAND STEALTH ....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6604
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 Ohh sorry ... forgot to tell which engine ...
 Okay, should be a Small-Block Chevy ... I would like datas for a
 350cid and 383cid if available.

 Bye the way : In the new issue of PHR a guy asked where 'mouse' &
 'rat' came from ... *perhaps cause the camel-heads look like the ears
 of mickey mouse, grin ????*
 Anybody who knows this ???

 BYE, WERNER
 
 KARL@fridolin.ngate.uni-regensburg.de
 BH725@cleveland.freenet.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!fridolin.ngate.uni-regensburg.de!Karl (Werner J. Karl)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct  4 13:50:41 1993
Subject: RE: amateur drag racing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6605
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

As far as safety rules, the governing body is usually whomever sanctions the
track. Usually the NHRA or IHRA. Both have basically the same rules, but they
usually take effect at different ET's. All require safety belts, and usually
mid 13's will require a helmet and sometimes a drive shaft loop. Passengers are
usally left up to the track management, but usually they are not allowed during
competition.

Convertibles are still allowed, but roll bars are required at certain ET's.
Again this varies between IHRA and NHRA. The IHRA tends to let things go a
little longer then the NHRA. I believe that roll bars are required in the IHRA
at 11.50 or faster. In the NHRA it's 11.99 or faster.

As far as staging, do everyone a favor and stage right away. (I know that I've
spent far too much time waiting in the water box while games are played at the
line.) The lights won't start to come down until both cars are staged. Once
staged, watch the third yellow light (full tree). When it lights, GO. Don't
wait for the green. This will net you your best reaction times. If you're
running a Pro Tree, then all three yellows come on a short time after both cars
are staged. It usually happens pretty fast.

ron

----------
Posted by: "Mellum Ron" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct  4 13:59:56 1993
Subject: RE: throttle hesitation
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6606
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>	Both cars have gobs of power when you floor it, but they have a
>sluggish feel at low/mid rpm range.  I assume part of this is due to the
>cams, but I think there's some sort of timing/fuel mixture problems.  I'm
>going to try leaning them both out a little because my smog-check printouts
>show them to be idling on the rich side.  I would really like to get a more
>responsive throttle feel in both cars.
>I'd also like to get something a lot better than 13 mpg!

That 13mpg could be the driving style you've adapted to compensate for
the hesitation. As for ignition timing on a 350 (4" bore) I think about
12 degrees initial and 32-36 total advance (not including vacumm advance)
would be in the ball park.  Also with a loose torque converter you can
use full mechanical advance by 2800 rpm.  With better gas you can even
bring it all on at 2400 rpm or lower.  Remember some race motors have
no ignition advance at all.  Next add vacumm advance until the car
pings.  You don't need vacumm advance at idle or at full throttle - these
means hooking it to the ported vacumm source on the carb.

As far as your hesitation.  Make sure your not running lean.  In neutral
rev you engine slowly through the rpm range and look / listen for
hesitation.  Do it slowly so that the accelerator pump won't richen
the mixture (or disconnect the pump or keep it depressed...). 

Rochesters have alot of tuning potentials
You can adjust the richness in the power circuits, main circuits and idle 
circuits (by changing jets).  You can adjust how fast the power circuit
comes on and how fast the secondaries open.

If you have a auto-trans you may also want to check how the trans interacts
with the engine.  Changing the engine tune definitly changes the 
requirements on the trans.

>	The two Q-Jet eqipped 350s always feel like they're a little sluggish
>to slight changes in throttle -- is that the fault of the Q-Jets, timing, and
>fuel mixture?  If I'm cruising along at say 30mph in my Camaro and decide
>that suddenly I want to go 45, the car hesitates.  There seems to be no
>middle-of-the-road between a slow, plodding acceleration and a flat out WOT
>drag race. What are the critical things to give the car a more RESPONSIVE
>throttle touch?  Q-Jets are a pain to work on, but maybe that's what I need
>to do.  I think the carb problems are solely in the primaries.  At wide open
>throttle, I have NO COMPLAINTS!  

Off hand I'd still have to think its a lean mixture problem.

Look for HP books on tuning the Rochester carb (you can mail order it from
Summit or Jegs).  Also try to find a source for Rochester jets and metering
rods.

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct  4 16:30:12 1993
Subject: Re: amateur drag racing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6607
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

    Living in northern Minnesota we don'y have the problem of smog checks yet
but I hear they are comming.  To bad cause my 440 Charger and Mach 1 are far 
from factory.  Anyway, if the dragstrip you are at is a NHRA strip the NHRA
rules apply.  You can get a copy for about 10 bucks at a speed shop or at 
least they should know where to mail for it.  Good luck and what year is 
your  'vette?

----------
Posted by: emory!hp.uwsuper.edu!tcullen (TARY M. CULLEN)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct  4 21:15:31 1993
Subject: Re: Life and My Valve Seals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6608
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:

: 	"My valve guides are worn. Do I go about knurling them, or
: do I have the old guides drilled out and have bronze guides installed?
: (I found a place that will do it for $9 a guide)."

: 	Of all those who replied, they all stated knurling would be
: enough, should last me 150,000 miles, there would be no benefit to
: getting bronze guides, etc.

Oh how I wish I caught this question. I too made the mistake of only knurling
guides once, never again. It was sad to see a $3500 rebuild on such a sweet
motor start to use oil through the guides so soon. I always have mine
replaced now. Hindsight is 20/20. 

The umbrella seals are readily available in any speed shop under a number
of brands. Crane, Comp, TRW to name a few. 

Good Luck.

--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Steve D'Amelio  damelio@progress.com  |  69 Mustang 351W
                                      |  70 Mustang 351C
 #7 & #28                             |  88 Mustang 302  
                                      |  - 1,025hp -
                There's no replacement, for displacement.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

----------
Posted by: emory!elba.progress.COM!damelio (Stephen D'Amelio)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct  4 23:39:16 1993
Subject: port repair questions on aluminum manifolds
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6609
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Enough crying, it may be that I'm just stuck with it. My question is
-> this: does anyone know what kind of epoxy will:
->
-> 1. stand up to gas or alcohol (nozzles above throttle plates so area
-> to be filled is in contact with fuel

 To hell with epoxy.  Take it down to your local welding guy and have
him build the area up with the heliarc or low temp braze.  The idea of
a big wad of epoxy coming loose and going through the engine makes me
cringe.
                                                                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 01:35:44 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6610
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


{deleted parts}

	The rear sway bat of a camaro will fit a nova.  I would also put on 
	multi leaf rear spring unless you want the rear to sag.  But you might
	want to check out the new fiberglass rear springs for the camaro they
	are lighter and have more spring ratio.

	If I can help you more email me at css31271@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

  E-Mail this guy, and ask him, he posted it originally...

R.B.


--
<%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%>
          Black = White  >>> Concrete Respect <<<





----------
Posted by: "[ Be whatever you want, but always be you. ]............." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 03:38:59 1993
Subject: WEIAND STEALTH ....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6611
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Ohh sorry ... forgot to tell which engine ...
-> Okay, should be a Small-Block Chevy ... I would like datas for a
-> 350cid and 383cid if available.

 Unless you're building a real ground pounding, 5500+ RPM motor, there
is no aftermarket intake demonstrably superior to the plain old cast
iron Quadrajet intake.  Chevy did it *right*.


-> Bye the way : In the new issue of PHR a guy asked where 'mouse' &
-> 'rat' came from ... *perhaps cause the camel-heads look like the ears
-> of mickey mouse, grin ????*

 Given PHR's recent and rapid decline in quality, I'm not surprised
nobody there knew or could find out.
                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 07:02:37 1993
Subject: RE: amateur drag racing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6612
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I haven't drag raced (legally) in about five years.  The closest track is
>Sears Point (in Northern California), but it's about one and a half hours
>away.  I'd really like to drag one of my cars there soon, but I want to make
>sure I'm prepared.  Will I need to take Rallye Sport trim rings and hubcaps
>off first?  Is there any special battery hold down rules.  Are convertibles
>still legal?  Do I need a helmet?  Is there anything else that they're going
>to inspect for, like a driveshaft loop? 

At my local track the have a class called ETK - no helmet required but cars
are all street legal (they can use slicks and open headers).

Your car must look like it can pass inspection plus they check:

All your lug-nuts (wheels falling off at 90mph is not for good racing)
Battery hold down (Incase you flip etc. your battery won't become an acid
laden missle)
Radiator overflow of at least 1 quart (so you don't dump water all over
the track - not good for slicks)
No loose hubcaps (spinners O.K. if bolted on)

Generally convertables require roll-bars (which must be approved - usually
means must be welded in) for anything faster than a 13.9?  Some where 
around 12 a roll cage is required.  NHRA has specific rules.

>My '69 Camaro has lousier rear-end gearing and no posi, so it'll probably be
>in the low 13 second range.  It has shoulder belts, but no headrests.  The
>Enkei rims have spinners, which would probably have to be removed.  
>
>Will I be able to race either of these cars without adding safety stuff or
>wearing a helmet?

I think the camaro is a better bet since there are definit limits on what
they'll allow converatbles to do.

>Who makes the rules, the NHRA?  Or does each track make up their own rules.

Depends on the track....

Oh, on racing.

The thing your worried about is the starting tree.
For each lane there is (starting from the top):
1-pre stage bulb - connected to the first beam of light crossing the
	starting area
1-stage bulg - connected to the second beam - at the starting line
3-yellow bulbs - usually the count down types with .500 seconds between
	them.  A "pro" tree means all yellow lights are lit at once and
	the green follows .400 seconds later.
1 green light - if you wait for this light before you leave you'll be too
	slow
1 red light.

Normally one car moves (either car) moves up into the pre-stage beam.  This
signals he's ready to race.  The other car should then move into the pre-
stage beam.  On some tracks its proper (but not necessary) for the second
car to light the stage bulb first.  If your running on a "pro" tree you
should bring the car up to starting revs before you enter the stage light.
This is difficult on manual trans with-out line locks but "pro" trees are
rare so...
Once both stage and pre-stage lights are lit and the starter feels both
cars are safe (normally only glances to check for big-time leaks) he
activates the tree.  This happens very quickly!
On at automatic equiped mustang 5.0 I stage "shallow" which means I barely
light the 'stage' light.  I inch forward until the second light turns on.
Leaving (releasing the brakes) when I anticipate the last yellow will
turn on gives a reaction time of .85 seconds (perfect on a .500 tree - 
when measured from the last yellow is .500 seconds).  Leaving when I
"see" the last yellow gives about 1.0 - 1.2 seconds.  Leaving when I
"see" the second to last yellow gives about .5 to .7 reaction -enough
to be competative.  
The clock starts when your car leaves the stage beam.  Thats right! You
add your reaction time to your elapsed time to determine how long it 
took you to cover the quarter mile.  This means if you snooze at the
line (like my 1.0 reaction time) even running exactly on your dial-in
you still could be the looser.  A 1.0 reaction time would give your
"enemy" a .5 second margin of error.  He could be a total of .5 seconds
off on reaction or dial-in and still win.
One last piece of advice.  The start of the race is all mental.  Don't 
worry about the other guy (don't even look at him).  The end of the 
race is different.  If, for whatever reason, you find yourself catching
up to someone don't pass him by too much.  It's much safer to just
be a nose ahead so that you minimize the chance of breaking out.  Many
people actually hit the brakes at the end.
I remember seeing a hapless late model Camaro get womped by a 67-69 one.
The late model driver was slow of the line (with a 15 + dial-in) and
the 69 had a mid 13's dial-in.  Well the late model was so slow off the
line that the 69 caught him by the 60ft mark.  He just kept his nose
infront of the late model and collected the win light.  The late model
lost in the first 60ft....

Call your track - get the info you need and go have some legal, safe fun.

Let us know how you did.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 08:21:37 1993
Subject: Ford engine part?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6613
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I am currently building a 351 Windsor Ford engine and I have come
across an interesting little bit of a problem... mentioned in my
handy-dandy Ford small block engine building book is a part known as
an 'oil slinger', a disk of some sort which resides behind the
timing chain cover, sandwiched between the harmonic dampener snout
and the timing chain gear.  Now, being that I bought all the parts
for this engine seperately and not from a junkyard as one complete
assembly, I do not have a part that fits said description.  Simple
answer, go buy one, right?  Well, not exactly.  Here's the problem.
First of all, all the other Ford engine books I have to not mention
such a part.  It's not in any instructions or exploded drawings.
Second of all, I am using a dual roller timing chain which, due to
the increased size of the drive gear to accomodate the extra portion
of chain, would mean that this 'oil slinger' would have to be about
a quarter of an inch thick or risk hitting the timing chain cover.
The book that mentions this part doesn't say much about it other
than "put it on" and include a nifty little picture which does very
little to help ascertain its thickness.  My question is, does anyone
out there know what the heck part I'm talking about?  Do I actually
need one, or is something that doesn't actually apply to what I'm
doing?  The engine that is being rebuilt in the book is a hi-po 1965
289, and I am working on a '74 351W, but the book doesn't say
anything about whether or not there would be such a part for my
given situation.  Can anyone out there help me, possibly explain
what's going on and why?  Ford books say I don't need it, this book
says I do.  Who's right?
 

----------
Posted by: emory!sdcc13.ucsd.edu!bkolodzi (Hurdy Gurdy Man )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 09:09:59 1993
Subject: Thanks for the info
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6614
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Thanks to you guys for the info about distributor advance, carb tuning, and
drag racing.  I appreciate it!  My Corvette's a '70 by the way.  A lot of
people think '69 is the last year for high-compression, but it's '70.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 10:02:29 1993
Subject: info on 460 interceptor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6615
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I poked around my $250.00 '77 460 Ford Police Interceptor, and found out a
little more about it.  It has a barrel shaped oil cooler, a heavy duty
radiator, a transmission cooler, and a special air cleaner with two vacuum
operated doors which open wide up (presumably at WOT) to let the air bypass
the dinky little snorkel tube.  It has dual exhaust with TWIN cats.  The 9"
rear has disc brakes.  It has 6-ply "police special" tires.  No A/C, rubber
mats instead of carpets, and a bunch of relays and stuff for the flashing
lights, etc.  

Just for kicks, I think I might pull off the twin cats, tailpipes and
mufflers and drive it for a few minutes like that (should sound NASTY!)
before I retire it to the backyard.  I'm getting more and more inclined to
hop up the engine and transplant it into some old car.  I'm getting big-block
fever.  As it is now, the car is unregistered, non-smoggable, and uninsured.
What kind of horsepower/torque could I expect if I put in flat-tops, an
aluminum intake (Weiand dual-plane), a moderate cam, and block-hugger headers
-- and topped it with say a Holley 750cfm?  Enough to overcome the excess
weight of the motor?

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 10:51:23 1993
Subject: '69 Boss 'stang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6616
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hello all,
	Anyone please tell me what a '69 Boss 302 Mustang Trans Am is worth in the US.A friend of mine has one of only 3 in Australia and wouldn't mind a comparison in prices between US and Oz.Its in original condition,perfect black interior,white with black trims etc and 8.5 " and 9.5" wide 15" Minilite wheels.Original wheels are in storage.
				Thanks Pete.

----------
Posted by: emory!titanic.mpce.mq.edu.au!s3007157
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 14:39:50 1993
Subject: Re: '69 Boss 'stang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6617
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Hello all, > Anyone please tell me what a '69 Boss 302 Mustang Trans
Am is worth in the US.A friend of mine has one of only 3 in Australia
and wouldn't mind a comparison in prices between US and Oz.Its in
original condition,perfect black interior,white with black trims etc and
8.5 " and 9.5" wide 15" Minilite wheels.Original wheels are in storage.
> Thanks Pete.  >

I owned a first day production 69 Boss 302 and sold it last year.  My
first question would be if this is a Trans Am car, that is a Boss which
Ford built specifically for Trans Am racing, as oppossed to the Boss
street car.  If you give me some more info, I can return a better
reply...

Filippo

----------
Posted by: emory!East.DELFIN.com!bilge (Filippo Morelli)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 14:58:01 1993
Subject: GN Problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6619
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

A friend of mine is having some problems with his 84 GN.
Idle vacuum is about 10 inches, it idles really rough,
O2 sensor stay rich all of the time, and the ECM is
giving him trouble code 32 (EGR).  He says the EGR valve
and switch have been replaced within the last year,
MAF is new, O2 sensor is new, injectors are 2 mos
old, crank sensor is new, water temp sensor working
properly. Oh, BLM just sits at 105.  Any ideas, comments,
or suggestions?

If possible please CC me at lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu
when you reply to this, since I don't have a reliable
subscription to the list.

-- 
--=<   Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu   >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 15:06:43 1993
Subject: [] '79 SilverAnniv. Trans Am brake sloppiness
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6620
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


[] I own a 1979 Silver Anniversary Trans Am (third owner).  I also own
   a 77 T/A.  The brake pedal response on the 77 is immediate and extremely
   stiff at the very tip top of pedal motion (pads front, drums rear).

   The 79 T/A (pads front & rear) brake pedal response is loose and sloppy.
   I have to push the pedal almost halfway to the floor before I feel
   any drag from the brakes; from there on down the response is
   exponential, so that there is never a problem or a question: that 
   car will stop, it's just a matter of how far I have to push the
   pedal down.

   I've tried everything I can think of to get the brake pedal response
   on the 79 to be immediate, stiff, and at the very tip top of pedal
   motion.  I totally bled the system quite a few times; tried silicon
   brake fluid; replaced the master cylinder twice; replaced the power
   booster once; checked and rechecked all the pedal linkages.
   I can't find anything, not even a combination of woes, that explain
   my dreaded brake sloppiness.

[] Surely I'm don't own the only 79 T/A that has sloppy brake pedal 
   response...I would GREATLY appreciate any help/ideas.  Thanx ;)


-- 
Michael Milbert 
Milbert Amps, Inc. Vacuum Tube Car Audio Components Since 1986
Box 1027, Germantown, MD 20874 USA / 301-540-8827 / fax301-428-0831

----------
Posted by: emory!access.digex.net!mmilbert (Michael Milbert)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Tue Oct  5 15:13:49 1993
Subject: Ford 289 questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6618
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


My '63 Galaxie has a 289 automatic with a two barrel carb.  It is a daily
driver and gets around 15 mpg. I hope to push that number up a bit and get
some performance gains in the low end. I don't expect miracles.

It is bone stock right now.  As things need replacing I will be upgrading
exhaust and ignition systems. So some questions:

According to some older hotrod books I have, a "Tri-Y"  header system 
will produce the most gains at the low end.  Still true?

Does anyone have any experience with the Flowmaster single muffler setup? 
They claim more horsepower than a dual arrangement.

Currently the car has the stock generator in place. Any recommendations
for a swap to alternator? That is, will any generic alternator do, or
should I be looking for a specific model?

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 15:13:50 1993
Subject: Plug cleaner
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6621
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Will Gumout (or other solvent) clean a spark plug with lots of carbon
on it?

These are new plugs (500 miles) but I was running EXTREMELY rich.  I
would sand blast them but they are 4-electrode type and have been told
not to sand blast because you can never get all of the sand back out.
They are also kind of expensive, the dealer wanted $25/ea., I paid $8/ea.

Thanks
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 16:41:38 1993
Subject: Re:69 Boss 'Stang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6622
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Pete, the value of a 69 Boss 302 would vary greatly in the US.
For a perfect low mileage original with numbers matching would probably
bring about $ 20,000. For a good shape car with original engine about
$ 5,000-9,500. For a car that needs work and not sporting the right
engine about $2,000-3,500. As usual, UMMV :-)

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 16:46:52 1993
Subject: Topeka Craftsman Nationals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6623
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                          SUBJECT:  Topeka Craftsman Nationals
This weekend my wife and I went to the NHRA Sears Craftsman Nationals in
Topeka, Kansas.  I can sum it all up in one word ... INCREDIBLE!

Records were falling all over the place.  The track was in great shape and was
taking everything that the Fuel categories could give it.  The weather was
clear, dry,  and in the mid 70s.

Pro Stock
========

Some of the highlights were Kurt Johnson taking out Warren ... my wife loved
it, because she doesn't like Warren.  Mark Pawuk didn't qualify.  Scott
Geoffrion red-lit against Larry Morgan.  Larry Morgan took top honors against
Dave Rampy in the Finals.

For some reason, the ProStock performances were only so-so ... high 7 teens and
low 7 twenties.  W.J. turned some impressive MPH though ... 195+.

Top Fuel Funny Car
===============

WOW!  Chuck Etchells stole Force's thunder (and lightened his wallet!) by
running history's first 4 second run in a flopper ... 4.987!!!!!

Force then had the chance to get in the history books by going 300 mph ....
OOOOPS!  Jim Eppler beat him to it!  Jim ran a scorching 300.2 mph run!!!!  His
next pass looked as if it was going to be even faster, but the car popped the
blower at about 3/4 track and the car burned to the ground. :-(

This gave Force a bye run to the finals against Etchells.  Etchells ran a 5.08
@ 299.5 to take the title.

Top Fuel
========

Some more awesome performances!  We saw Cory Mac lower the E.T. record to 4.76
in an early round.  He also fired off a 302.80 MPH pass!  Lots of 4.80s. 
Shelly Andersen ran a 4.91 on WET tires, since the car bogged twice trying to
do a burnout.  They finally had to stage or Buster was going to shut them down.
 I expected smoking tires and broken parts, but the car hooked and ran well. 
She lost the round to a 4.85 pass, but she had nothing to be ashamed of!  

Kenny Bernstein was the only one to smoke the tires and no major oil downs
occurred.  Scott Kalitta really let one go in the final against Cory ... he ran
a 4.80 @ 308.64 ... that's no typo *** 308.64 MPH !!!! *** WOW!  Cory ran a low
4.90, dropping cylinders at the top end.

The sportsman portion of the program showed som top quality competition as
well.  Several perfect index runs and many 0.001-0.005 second margins of
victory.  Pretty exciting.  The Comp Eliminator final had a freak accident,
where a dragster got out of the groove, the driver over corrected and got
sideways.  The slicks hooked and the car barrel rolled several times (I'd guess
maybe 20 times) very violently.  The driver was unconscious and Life Flighted
to the hospital.  I didn't hear if he was all right or not before we left ... I
hope he's ok.  It was pretty violent, but I hope that the stringent safety
equipment did it's job and he just got a good "bell ringing".



-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  A *BOOST* of Buick Performance

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 16:52:11 1993
Subject: Ford engine part?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6624
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> an 'oil slinger', a disk of some sort which resides behind the
-> timing chain cover, sandwiched between the harmonic dampener snout

 It's a sheet metal disc about 4" in diameter.  All small blocks and FEs
(I'd bet most Ford V8s) use the same slinger, so just find one and use
it.

 I wouldn't try running without the slinger - its job it to deflect oil
from the timing cover seal.

 BTW, Ford recommends using a special conical tool for seating the
timing cover on a Windsor.  It looks sort of like a clutch pilot tool,
slides over the crank, and positively locates the cover when you snug it
down.  Naturally, not even the dealer has one.  The cheapie trick is to
put the damper on and let it position the cover, start what bolts you
can, then pull the damper off and put in the rest of the bolts.
                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct  5 16:56:17 1993
Subject: info on 460 interceptor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6625
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> -- and topped it with say a Holley 750cfm?  Enough to overcome the
-> excess weight of the motor?

 The 460 weighs only about 90 pounds more than a 305 Chevy.

 Ford doesn't call it "light weight casting technology" for nothing.
                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Tue Oct  5 23:27:29 1993
Subject: Re: Plug cleaner
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6626
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> 
> Will Gumout (or other solvent) clean a spark plug with lots of carbon
> on it?
> 
>> 
> 
> 
	A friend of mine uses a propane torch to burn off the ddeposits
I've used it in a lawnmower (yeah, I know its not a car) with good 
success...

----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Tue Oct  5 23:39:16 1993
Subject: Re: '63 Galaxy
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6627
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Here's my suggestions for your '63 Galaxy:

	Since it's a daily driver, leave the stock exhaust manifolds (headers
always have leaky gaskets, and they'd be a pain to cram into that car).  Put
dual exhaust with glasspacks and bullet-tips all the way to the rear bumper. 
It'll sound cool with that small 289!

	Swap the intake for a four barrel one and stick on a small 4-bbl,
like maybe 600 cfm.

	Get some low-profile tires and you'll have a cool sounding ride with
the right stance.  The stock exhaust manifolds will be fine for low-end
torque.

	Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Tue Oct  5 23:39:25 1993
Subject: Car for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6628
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

1987 Camaro Z28 T.P.I. for sale.  51K Adult driven miles.  White with gold trim.  Garaged winters and rainey days.  Aiwa pull-out stereo with Sansui amp and Kenwood 6X9's.  Many performance improving parts - ask.  Loaded with every option.  This car has been babied.  New tires, shocks & struts etc...  In Chicago-land area.  Asking $6,900 with stereo or $6,300 without stereo.  Bartlett IL (708)213-8266.

----------
Posted by: emory!ho1focus.att.com!smp1
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Tue Oct  5 23:39:33 1993
Subject: Re: [] '79 SilverAnniv. Trans Am brake sloppiness
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6629
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>
>    I've tried everything I can think of to get the brake pedal response
>    on the 79 to be immediate, stiff, and at the very tip top of pedal
>    motion.  I totally bled the system quite a few times; tried silicon
>    brake fluid; replaced the master cylinder twice; replaced the power
>    booster once; checked and rechecked all the pedal linkages.
>    I can't find anything, not even a combination of woes, that explain
>    my dreaded brake sloppiness.
>
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!access.digex.net!mmilbert (Michael Milbert)
>
>
>

I didn't see any mention of adjusting the brake shoe to drum
clearance.  I haven't had a lot of luck with the auto adjusters unless
I manually adjust the shoes till they just start to drag.

I spent the weekend replacing the single piston master cylinder on my
'64 Nova with a tandem unit, and found an enormous difference in the
pedal slop after the brakes were properly adjusted.

By the way, I picked up a pair of aluminium finned drums off a '80
Camaro at the junk yard for real cheap, and seem to fit fine on both
the front and rear of my Nova.  Probably would work nice on a few
other GM cars also.

-Kevin

----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Oct  6 04:01:45 1993
Subject: Re: Ford engine part?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6632
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I put an Edelbrock double roller timing chain on my 302 last December, and
the instructions specifically stated to NOT use the oil slinger, so
I left mine out.  It hasn't leaked any oil out the front seal, and no
ill effects noticed yet.


----------
Posted by: emory!wv.MENTORG.COM!derekd (Derek Deeter)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Oct  6 04:04:26 1993
Subject: Re: Mushy Brakes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6631
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

One more thing I remembered about the brakes is that a lot of cars have an
adjustment that sets how far you press the pedal before the master cylinder
piston starts to move.  If you take the cover off the brake fluid reservoir
and look at it under the hood and through the windshield while you're SUPER
SLOWLY pushing down on the pedal, you'll notice that nothing happens for
something like a 1/2", and then you see a bulge of fluid in the middle when
the piston starts to move -- the bulge of fluid will turn into a fountain of
fluid if you push the pedal in too fast.  If you have to push in way too far
before you see the fluid start to move, the pedal linkage probably needs
adjusting.  Unfortunately, sometimes you need to remove the master cylinder
just to make the adjustment.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Oct  6 04:04:36 1993
Subject: Re: Mushy Brake Pedal
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6630
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I had a similar mushy pedal problem on an old truck.  It turned out to be a
bad brake hose that would swell like a baloon under pressure.  Get under the
car and inspect the hoses while someone stomps on the pedal.

A more common problem causing a mushy pedal is air in the line somewhere.  I
use one of those "Mity-Vac" brake bleeders.  It's a $20.00 plastic
hand-powered vacuum pump.  You stick the cone shaped nozzle into the bleeder,
start pumping with your hand and crack open the bleeder.  It pulls the fluid
through.  Make sure you top off the master cylinder pretty quick.  It helps
to put some thick wheel bearing grease on the threads of the bleeder so that
you won't be sucking more air than brake fluid.  The pump has a little
reservoir so you can see when you're getting fresh new fluid -- the old stuff
can be greenish brown and opaque!  If you don't have a helper, the Mityvac is
the easy and cheap way to do it, and the old fluid doesn't wind up on the
floor.

Good luck.

Tom

P.S.:  Sometimes, depending on the car, you need to depress the pedal about
1/2" while you're bleeding.  Also, some cars have a little rubber pushbutton
on the proportioning valve that somehow aids in bleeding or equalizing the
front and back systems.  The factory service manuals explain how the
proportioning valve works -- I can't remember exactly off hand.  Good luck.

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 13:50:39 1993
Subject: Re: '69 Boss 'stang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6633
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Oct 5, 12:47am, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: '69 Boss 'stang
> 
> Hello all,
> Anyone please tell me what a '69 Boss 302 Mustang Trans Am is worth in
>the US.A friend of mine has one of only 3 in Australia and wouldn't mind
>a comparison in prices between US and Oz.Its in original
>condition,perfect black interior,white with black trims etc and 8.5 "
>and 9.5" wide 15" Minilite wheels.Original wheels are in storage.
> 				Thanks Pete.
> 

according to the current kelly blue book it is worth 3375 in poor condition,
6650 in good condition and 12100 in excellent condition.cheers!mike

-- 
Mike Brattland(Brattlan@Cyber.net) 1971 Porsche 911T, 1988 Ford F150 4X4
El Cajon, California 1923 Ford Roadster(Ford 302,4spd,9 inch) Ex-Jeepster Owner
E-MAIL ME FOR FORD HOLLEY TRI-POWER INFORMATION FOR SMALL AND BIG BLOCK FORDS 

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 13:58:56 1993
Subject: Re: '69 Boss 'stang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6634
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:

: Hello all,
: 	Anyone please tell me what a '69 Boss 302 Mustang Trans Am is worth in the US.A friend of mine has one of only 3 in Australia and wouldn't mind a comparison in prices between US and Oz.Its in original condition,perfect black interior,white with black trims etc and 8.5 " and 9.5" wide 15" Minilite wheels.Original wheels are in storage.
: 				Thanks Pete.

I paid 1200 for my '69 and 2000 for my '70 (both low mileage cars)
but that was years ago. The Musclecar Price Guide from a couple of
years ago list the following prices:
A - 22000
B - 16200
C - 13600
D - 9000
E - 6000
Where 'A' implies better than new and 'E' implies driveable with major wear.

Hemming's prices in the September issue seem a bit higher with
really perfect sounding cars in the 28000 range. Prices seem to
have gone up some in the past year.  As a side note, I would
appreciate any information on foreign export cars like this.
Every once in a while I see some really interesting cars for sale
that are export models (one was an export hemicuda with wierdnesses
like a kph speedometer etc. and another (I think) was a right-hand
drive GS-455 Stage 1 convertible for sale in Australia).
- Phil

----------
Posted by: emory!netcom.com!preston (Philip Preston)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 14:04:02 1993
Subject: Re: spark plug cleaner
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6635
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Robert Galant want to know the best way to get off carbon buildup on a
spark plug. I find that a wire brush work great at getting off the
deposits. You could help by using contact cleaner as you wire brush em clean.

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 14:07:45 1993
Subject: High RPM questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6636
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hello all.  I have a few questions about getting my SB Chevy to rev better
in the 5000+ RPM range.  I have some pretty good ideas where the problem
is (are) but wanted to toss them out and see if anyone else had any other
possibilities.

I took the car to the track last week and it went good, but I noticed that
it seemed to be falling off once I got it up above 5000 RPMs.  First, here
is the engine combination:
	350 Small Block Chevy, bored .040 over, 10:1 flat top forged pistons
	Dart II S/R heads, 2.02 intake, 1.60 exhaust valves
	cam: 292/302 adv dur, 234/244 dur @ .050, .488/.510 int/exh lift
			114 lobe centers
	Edelbrock Torker II intake
	Holley 650cfm double pumper
	Heddmann hedders, wrapped in Thermotec header wraps
	2 1/2" exhaust throughout, through Flowmaster mufflers
	Stock HEI ignition with Accel Super Coil

This is all in front of an automatic tranny, 2500 RPM stall converter, 3.73
rear end gears.  I know that better gears (4:10, 4:56) would help my 1/4 mile
times, but I'm just working on the top end right now (pulling past 5000 RPMs)

The problem areas I come up with are: 1) ignition, 2) carb, 3) intake

First off, I was planning on putting in the MSD-6AL ignition (I figure this
is probably my biggest problem.)  I was also planning on trying out a 750cfm
double pumper, as I've been told that I am just running out of carb that high
up.  I've been told (depending on what you believe) that an 850cfm might even
work better than the 750cfm, but I don't really think so (but I think a 750cfm
is definitely in order. :) )

The last thing I am wondering about (and have the most questions on) is the
intake.  The car already has tons of low end grunt (flick of the pedal, the
tires go *poof* :) which I assumed it wouldn't with the Torker II.  What I 
am thinking of is going to something like an Edelbrock Victor JR intake instead
of the Torker II I already have, as it does have tons of low end, so I don't
mind losing some of it.  Does anyone have any experience with the Victor
series of manifolds?  Or can someone suggest a better manifold to use?

Thanks!!!

-- Steve
stm0@gte.com

P.S.  Right now the car is running 13.8's at 102 MPH through the exhaust and
      on street tires (spinning them the first 200 feet too - gotta work on
      that. :) )  I figure MPH's would be up and times would drop if I could
      get it to rev better without falling off in the high RPMs.  Oh, well,
      C'est La Vie.  :)



----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 14:15:42 1993
Subject: Re: Ford engine part?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6637
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 In case anybody's still wondering what this thingy is, or what it does,
the oil slinger is (on the engines I've worked on, anyway) a conical 
stamping which goes on the sFrom rsiatl!hotrod Wed Oct  6 15:13:19 1993
Received: from emory.mathcs.emory.edu by ECE.Rutgers.EDU (4.1/25-eef)
	id AA00437; Wed, 6 Oct 93 15:13:19 EDT
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	emory.mathcs.emory.edu (5.65/Emory_mathcs.3.4.12) via UUCP
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	id ; Wed, 6 Oct 93 14:19 EDT
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Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 14:19 EDT
Errors-To: postmaster@dixie.com
Sender: postmaster@dixie.com
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Subject: Holley 4150 idle
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Wednesday, Oct 06 14:17:41
X-Sequence: 6638
X-Gifs-To: met@sunset.cse.nau.edu
X-Gifs-From: ftp.nau.edu
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu
Approved: jgd@dixie.com


I am having a slight idle problem with a 600 cfm double pumper on a 302
Ford. The car idles fine at 1,000 once warm.  However, once I run the car
hard, it doesn't really want go back down to 1,000.  It likes to sit
between 1,300 and 1,600.

The carb and engine are both new.  The cam is .528 lift with 236 duration
at .050.  The choke has been removed from the carb, but it has not been
milled.  The car has a 185 degree thermostat and the large air cleaner
protrudes above a cut out in the hood a fair distance (it doesn't really
suck hot air).  I am running an MSD mechanical distributor and my advance
is most likely starting to come in around 1,300-1,500.  I am using two
carb return springs and an adjustable throttle cable bracket that I believe
is providing enough slack.

I have done the normal Holley carb tuning and it runs great.  This isn't a
serious problem, but I would like to keep the idle under better control.

 Thanks,

  Brian


---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com
Not idling or speaking for Ford.

----------
Posted by: emory!pms706.pms.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 16:38:49 1993
Subject: RE: Ford engine part?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6639
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I am currently building a 351 Windsor Ford engine and I have come
>across an interesting little bit of a problem... mentioned in my
>handy-dandy Ford small block engine building book is a part known as
>an 'oil slinger', a disk of some sort which resides behind the
>timing chain cover, sandwiched between the harmonic dampener snout
>and the timing chain gear.  

I just pulled a part a 87 351W out of a Bronco.  It had a double roller
timing chain and no part between the lower timing gear and the harmonic
balancer.

I'm not sure if this was the stock timing chain or not.  The motor
did have the fuel pump cam / eccentric although it definitly has
fuel injection.  So either Ford uses the same motor for Carb and non-carb
applications or someone has been inside this motor...

BTW 
We are trying to track down why the engine apparently seized.

When I arrived to help the engine's externals were removed and the 
owner was working on getting the exhaust off.  The intent was to pull
the motor and get it rebuilt.

I asked If I could try to turn it.  It turned fine.  "I thought you said
it was locked?" - "It was!"

Must be bad oil pump - since the distributer was removed - replace 
distributer and it still turn fine....

The engine was total disassembled except for the short block...
The only problem we could find was #7 connecting rod was loose -possibly
spun bearing.

2 months previous 2 separate gas stations + my friend all tried turning
the motor with breaker bars and tubes over the breaker bar.  I even called
one of the places - to make sure they weren't smoking anything and nothing
was lost in the translation...  They swear up and down it was locked solid.

The short block should be at the machine shop... maybe they can tell
us what went wrong...

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 16:46:39 1993
Subject: Fuel Injection ...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6640
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


As the project to divine the secrets of Bosch Motronic EFI continues ..

We find ourselves in need of a cross-emulator (PC-Based) for the 8051

(or if the Gods are smiling .. an 80C515) to trace some of the EPROM 

code in the BOX ..

Once the code is cracked, we will be able to reprogram the boxes for more
power on OEM vehicles and adapt the Motronic system to NON-OEM cars ..

Like, for instance Motronic on a modified 2.2l 2002 or maybe a turboed
Motronic 280Z ?? ..

There are many possibilities... :)


Jim Conforti
(87 325is / 92 325i)

---------------------------------
WORK: 1-800-288-8020 (x3406)
FAX: (801) 373-1889
INET: jec@cpu.us.dynix.com
---------------------------------


----------
Posted by: Jim Conforti 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 16:50:45 1993
Subject: High RPM questions (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6641
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> Hello all.  I have a few questions about getting my SB Chevy to rev better
> in the 5000+ RPM range.  I have some pretty good ideas where the problem
> is (are) but wanted to toss them out and see if anyone else had any other
> possibilities.
> 
> I took the car to the track last week and it went good, but I noticed that
> it seemed to be falling off once I got it up above 5000 RPMs.  First, here
> is the engine combination:
> 	350 Small Block Chevy, bored .040 over, 10:1 flat top forged pistons
> 	Dart II S/R heads, 2.02 intake, 1.60 exhaust valves
> 	cam: 292/302 adv dur, 234/244 dur @ .050, .488/.510 int/exh lift
> 			114 lobe centers
> 	Edelbrock Torker II intake
> 	Holley 650cfm double pumper
> 	Heddmann hedders, wrapped in Thermotec header wraps
> 	2 1/2" exhaust throughout, through Flowmaster mufflers
> 	Stock HEI ignition with Accel Super Coil
> 
> -- Steve
> stm0@gte.com
> 
Did your dart heads come with valve springs?  Do you know that you have
stiff enough valve springs?  ("floating valves")
tom root

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 16:59:08 1993
Subject: Re: High RPM questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6642
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>> 
> 
> Hello all.  I have a few questions about getting my SB Chevy to rev better
> in the 5000+ RPM range.  I have some pretty good ideas where the problem
> is (are) but wanted to toss them out and see if anyone else had any other
> possibilities.
> 
> I took the car to the track last week and it went good, but I noticed that
> it seemed to be falling off once I got it up above 5000 RPMs.  
	I assume the valve springs are correct for the cam. Whats the
power band on the cam? 
	My limited experiences at the track have shown things like:
		1. timing (i usually run 36-38 total)
		2. Jets
		3. FUEL DELIVERY to the carb
All of these will make a car fall off if not correct.

>> 
> First off, I was planning on putting in the MSD-6AL ignition (I figure this
> is probably my biggest problem.)  I was also planning on trying out a 750cfm
> double pumper, as I've been told that I am just running out of carb that high
> up.  I've been told (depending on what you believe) that an 850cfm might even
> work better than the 750cfm, but I don't really think so (but I think a 750cfm
> is definitely in order. :) )

Stock HEI's work quite well.
I wouldn't go bigger than 750. I was running low 12's with a 650 for a 
long time (better heads, more gear, more converter and cam)

----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 19:39:47 1993
Subject: MSD ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6643
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Will an electronic tachometer or timing light work with an MSD ignition?

[Yes from the "tach" terminal in the case of the tach]

Are MSD ignitions legal, smog-inspection-wise?

[Yes.  They have an EO number]

Do you need a special coil?

[Not for the -6, though recommended.  I'm uncomfortable with how hot
a stock coil gets when running an MSD box on the bench.  ]

Do they make excessive RFI (radio frequency intererence)?

[ yes :-)  Believe them when they recommend using magnetic supression
wires on the secondary.  AM radio is still rather difficult to listen
to because of the conducted intereference from the power leads.  FM
is no problem.  JGD]

Curious guy wants to know.

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 19:48:58 1993
Subject: Re: Ford engine part?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6644
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> I am currently building a 351 Windsor Ford engine and I have come
> across an interesting little bit of a problem... mentioned in my
> handy-dandy Ford small block engine building book is a part known as
> an 'oil slinger', a disk of some sort which resides behind the
> timing chain cover, sandwiched between the harmonic dampener snout
> and the timing chain gear.  
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!sdcc13.ucsd.edu!bkolodzi (Hurdy Gurdy Man )


An oil slinger is used to reduce the amount of oil that is exposed to the
seal around the harmonic balancer. It is just a stamped piece of sheetmetal
(at least the one on an Olds). It sits between timing gear and the cover/seal.
It will not affect engine life/performance, but you will be more prone to 
oil leaks around that seal. It would not be a bad idea to get one.
A junk yard would be a place to look because it does not wear out and may
save you an oil leak on a fresh engine.

----------
Posted by: emory!cray.com!rjm (Roger Mrdutt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 19:54:24 1993
Subject: RE: GN Problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6645
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>A friend of mine is having some problems with his 84 GN.
>Idle vacuum is about 10 inches, it idles really rough,
>O2 sensor stay rich all of the time, and the ECM is
>giving him trouble code 32 (EGR).  He says the EGR valve
>and switch have been replaced within the last year,
>MAF is new, O2 sensor is new, injectors are 2 mos
>old, crank sensor is new, water temp sensor working
>properly. Oh, BLM just sits at 105.  Any ideas, comments,
>or suggestions?

Sounds like the computer thinks the EGR is stuck open.  To
compensate it runs rich to prevent detonation.  So why
would it think that the EGR is open?  Is there a sensor thats
supposed to tell which position the EGR is in?

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 19:58:35 1993
Subject: RE: [] '79 SilverAnniv. Trans Am brake sloppiness
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6646
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


[] I own a 1979 Silver Anniversary Trans Am (third owner).  I also own
   a 77 T/A.  The brake pedal response on the 77 is immediate and extremely
   stiff at the very tip top of pedal motion (pads front, drums rear).

   The 79 T/A (pads front & rear) brake pedal response is loose and sloppy.
   I have to push the pedal almost halfway to the floor before I feel
   any drag from the brakes; from there on down the response is
   exponential, so that there is never a problem or a question: that 
   car will stop, it's just a matter of how far I have to push the
   pedal down.

Assuming you don't have warped rotors - which could cause excessive
room between the pads and the rotors.  And assuming you've changed
everything else:

a) the piston in the master cylinder moves farther back than on the77
It must move back far enough for the resovour to refill the cylinder.
I heard 1/4" is enough.  It should be adjustable through a rod from
the pedal to the master cylinder - on some cars this requires disassebly
of the booster / master cylinder.  There has to be an adjustment on the
bar that moves the piston in the master cylinder...

b) perhaps incorrect parts.  The 79 should have different parts when
compared to the 77.  The master cylinder should be different due to 
different volume demands by the rear brakes.  Check those part numbers.

c) flexible lines with too much play?

d) still have air trapped in brakes (double check the rear - use gravity
to bleed)

e) silicon brake fluid doesn't absorb water but it does keep air suspended.
This stuff is a big no-no on most race circuits - Some mustang owners (if
you've seen the mustang mailing list) who race alot and try to get the
most out of latemodel mustang brakes have tried just about every brake
combo.  Big problems with silicon.  Stick to DOT 4 or DOT 5 the GT Lima
stuff is adaquate.  You can also bleed by using gravity.  Just open up
the cocks and let the fluid out.  Keep the master cylinder full.

Good Luck
Dirk

PS
Are you serious about tube audio for cars?

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct  6 20:03:05 1993
Subject: RE: Ford engine part?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6647
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>-> an 'oil slinger', a disk of some sort which resides behind the
>-> timing chain cover, sandwiched between the harmonic dampener snout
>
> It's a sheet metal disc about 4" in diameter.  All small blocks and FEs
>(I'd bet most Ford V8s) use the same slinger, so just find one and use
>it.

Could this slinger be mistaken for a washer?  How 'bout 2.0" diameter?

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 01:16:55 1993
Subject: Information source
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6648
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I was prowling around the net in places I usually wouldn't be caught
dead :-) and found the following.  Thought it might be of interest
to you guys.

-------------------------

TTN, Technology Transfer Network, is a network of electronic 
bulletin boards developed and operated by OAQPS, the EPA Office 
of Air Quality Planning and Standards.   The TTN is open 24 hrs a 
day, 7 days a week, except Mon. 8am-12pm when it is down for 
maintenance. Just telnet to:

TTNBBS.RTPNC.EPA.GOV

The help line is 919-541-5384.

You need to register with the board to get anything from it!

The bulletin boards accessible through TTN include:

   CAAA - Clean Air Act Amendments
		Has information on the Clean Air Act amendments of 
		1990, regulatory requirements, implementation programs, 
		criteria pollutants, and technical analyses.
   EMTIC - Emission Measurement Technical Information Center
		Provides access to emission test methods and testing 
		information for the development and enforcement of 
		national, state, and local emission prevention and 
		control programs.
   AMTIC - Ambient Monitoring Technology Information Center
		Provides information and all Federal Regulations 
		pertaining to ambient monitoring.  Information on 
		monitoring methodology, field and laboratory studies is 
		also included.
   AIRS - Aerometric Information Retrieval System
		Provides information and documentation on the use and 
		acquisition of air quality and emissions data from the 
		AIRS mainframe computer systems.
   BLIS - RACT/BACT/LAER Information Systems
		(Reasonably Available Control Technology/Best Available 
		Control Technology/Lowest Achievable Emission Rate)
		A compilation of air permits from local, state, and 
		regional air pollution control agencies.
   NATICH - National Air Toxics Information Clearinghouse
		Contains information submitted by EPA, state, and local 
		agencies regarding their air toxics programs to 
		facilitate the exchange of information among government 
		agencies.
   COMPLI - Stationary source compliance
		Provides stationary source and asbestos compliance 
		policy and guidance information.
   NSR - New Source Review
		Offers guidance and technical information within the 
		NSR permitting community.
   SCRAM - Support Center for Regulatory Air Models
		Provides regulatory air quality model computer code, 
		meteorological data, documentation, as well as modeling 
		guidance.
   CHIEF - Clearinghouse for Inventories/Emission Factors
		Contains the latest information on air emission 
		inventories and emission factors.  It provides access 
		to tools for estimating emissions of air pollutants and 
		performing air emission inventories for both criteria 
		and toxic pollutants.
   APTI - Air Pollution Training Institute
		Describes current course offerings on air pollution, 
		including curriculum, schedules, locations, costs, and 
		up-to-date changes.
   CTC - Control Technology Center
		Offers free engineering assistance, a hotline, and 
		technical guidance to state and local air pollution 
		control agencies in implementing air pollution control 
		programs.

The BBS is also available via direct dialup at (919) 541-5742.

[This information taken from "Office of Air Quality Planning and 
Standards: Technology Transfer Network" brochure.  This brochure 
also contains information on how to use the bulletin board.  For 
copies, please call the help line at the telephone number given 
above.]

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC                   | For a free sample magazine, send
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM)     | a digest-size 52 cent SASE 
Marietta, Ga     "Hotrods'n'computers"   | (Domestic) to PO Box 669728
jgd@dixie.com    "What could be better?" | Marietta, GA 30066
Email may be published at my sole discretion.

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 13:43:48 1993
Subject: Re: '79 SilverAnniv. Trans Am brake sloppiness
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6649
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I don't have the original poster's question any more, but Kevin wrote:
>I spent the weekend replacing the single piston master cylinder on my
>'64 Nova with a tandem unit, and found an enormous difference in the
>pedal slop after the brakes were properly adjusted.

And this reminded me of one place where looseness can enter the
brake system - the fit of the pin into the piston of the master
cylinder.  The brake pedal lever is attached to the pin, and there
is some means of adjusting the length of the pin, and there should
be just a tiny bit of clearance between the pin and the piston
when the brake pedal is fully retracted.  See the service manual
for the vehicle for the specs on the clearance.

Also, excess clearance is sometimes caused by wear in the pivots
in the brake pedal system.  Check everything that has a bushing
for looseness.

Bob Hale             hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 13:55:18 1993
Subject: Tuning a Carter AFB
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6650
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


   I just aquired a 625 Carter AFB (used, but not abused :) as a
replacement for the ailing Q-jet on my Olds 350.    Bolted it on, and
it runs fine, except for the top end.  Removed it, took it apart,
cleaned out the goop, re-installed.  Ran better.   Still no real top
end.

   0->1/2 throttle is excellent.

   _SLOWLY_ going from 1/2->WOT is okay.

   Snapping the throttle from 0->WOT or 1/2->WOT results in a nasty 
    bog until the engine catches up with the carb, or so it feels.
    Feels like a Q-jet with the air doors too loose.

  Unlike a Q-jet, the opening of the secondary air valve is not really
adjustable; it just sort of stays there and is counterweighted, with
no provison for adjustment.  Of course, the Q-jet I removed had no
response until the secondaries opened......  Hmm...  how about a
dual-quad setup?  Primaries feed from the AFB, and the secondaries
feed from the Q-jet.  NOT! 8^)

  What do I do to tune this beast?   I really love this carb.  It's so
simple, and has the best response I've ever seen in a carb.  

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  
            "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation"


----------
Posted by: Bob "$1/meg" Valentine 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 14:04:46 1993
Subject: Re: MSD ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6651
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> > 
> Will an electronic tachometer or timing light work with an MSD ignition?
> 
> [Yes from the "tach" terminal in the case of the tach]
> 
> Curious guy wants to know.
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: Tom Carver 

	A little note of warning on two counts here. MOST tachs will
work with MSD. The inexpensive SUN line didnt USED to work. (I dont know
if this is still true)

	On timing lights, yes, most do, but those that have the dial back
for advance measurement on them do NOT work when you use the dial back!

[Occasionally, most notably on the stock Datsun Z tach, the "tach" signal
is too small to trigger the tach which is looking for several hundred volts
of coil flyback.  I've generally been able to open the tach, find a scaling
resistor and change it to make the tach work.  On timing lights, I have
a fairly cheap dial-back timing light I bought at Pep Boys a couple of 
years ago.  While I'm unimpressed with this light for a number of other
reasons (for instance, the advance varies a bit with RPM), it does
work fine with the -6 box on my Z.  YMMV  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 14:11:02 1993
Subject: RE: RPM
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6652
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Subject: High RPM questions

> First, here is the engine combination:

     >  350 Small Block Chevy, bored .040 over, 10:1 flat top forged pistons
     >  Dart II S/R heads, 2.02 intake, 1.60 exhaust valves
     >  cam: 292/302 adv dur, 234/244 dur @ .050, .488/.510 int/exh lift
     >                  114 lobe centers
     >  Edelbrock Torker II intake
     >  Holley 650cfm double pumper
     >  Heddmann hedders, wrapped in Thermotec header wraps
     >  2 1/2" exhaust throughout, through Flowmaster mufflers
     >  Stock HEI ignition with Accel Super Coil

> This is all in front of an automatic tranny, 2500 RPM stall converter, 3.73
> rear end gears.  I know that better gears (4:10, 4:56) would help my 1/4
> mile times, but I'm just working on the top end right now (pulling past 5000 
> RPMs)

> The problem areas I come up with are: 1) ignition, 2) carb, 3) intake

> First off, I was planning on putting in the MSD-6AL ignition (I figure this
> is probably my biggest problem.)  I was also planning on trying out a 750cfm
> double pumper, as I've been told that I am just running out of carb that 
> high up.  I've been told (depending on what you believe) that an 850cfm 
> might even work better than the 750cfm, but I don't really think so (but I 
> think a 750cfm is definitely in order. :) )

> The last thing I am wondering about (and have the most questions on) is the
> intake.  The car already has tons of low end grunt (flick of the pedal, the
> tires go *poof* :) which I assumed it wouldn't with the Torker II.  What I 
> am thinking of is going to something like an Edelbrock Victor JR intake
> instead of the Torker II I already have, as it does have tons of low end, so
> I don't mind losing some of it.  Does anyone have any experience with the 
> Victor series of manifolds?  Or can someone suggest a better manifold to
> use?

  Steve

  Going to the 750 Holley will definitely help. The Torker II (if I remember
correctly) is good to 7000. The Victor JR is good from 3500 to 8200 (I use the
Victor JR in my circle track car) but it is a real dog below 3500. If this car
is driven on the street more than it is raced with the gears you now have I
would not recommend the Victor JR.

 I run the GM HEI up to 8200 but you need to recurve the distributor for a
faster centrifugal advance curve. Full advance at between 2500 and 3000 rpm.
Total ignition advance with your setup I would recommend at 34 degrees. I run
38 - 40 with a 13:1 motor on 108 octane racing fuel. The stock distributor
with the Accel coil kit should be ok. MSDs are nice but I haven't had a bit of 
problem with my HEI in four years use on my race cars (33 feature wins). **
Note ** The GM HEI needs a good voltage source. If anything is amiss in the
ignition it will show up by destroying the electronic control module and will
not fire the plugs adequately at the higher RPM range.

 I'm a little confused about your Dart II S/R designation. This doesn't sound
like the Dart II Sportsman head which will flow past 7500. The S/R Torquer will
not flow much past 5500 without falling off drastically. The cam you have
indicated with .488 and .510 lift which isn't going to allow the engine to 
breathe well at higher RPM. It may be good for low and mid range torque but
not upper RPM horsepower. I would suggest more lift (.555 to .570) and less
overlap on the cam (106 to 108 deg. lobe centers). The more compression you
run the greater the overlap and duration you can effectively use. Less
compression use less overlap and duration. Also if your valves springs are not
matched to the cam or have been run hard for a couple of years they may be
getting weak. You might have them checked.

Gives you something to think about. Hope it helps.

Roger Hensley
Patriot Motorsports
1099 N. 16th St
Otsego, MI 49078



----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 14:16:43 1993
Subject: Re: High RPM questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6653
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article hs5zx8d@dixie.com, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> 
> Hello all.  I have a few questions about getting my SB Chevy to rev better
> in the 5000+ RPM range.  I have some pretty good ideas where the problem
> is (are) but wanted to toss them out and see if anyone else had any other
> possibilities.
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)


You don't mention just what RPM you want to run.
Pick your exact RPM and dial thing to that.


----------
Posted by: emory!cray.com!rjm (Roger Mrdutt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 14:21:16 1993
Subject: Re: Weird exports (was: '69 Boss 'stang)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6654
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>                                   .  As a side note, I would
>appreciate any information on foreign export cars like this.
>Every once in a while I see some really interesting cars for sale
>that are export models (one was an export hemicuda with wierdnesses
>like a kph speedometer etc. and another (I think) was a right-hand
>drive GS-455 Stage 1 convertible for sale in Australia).
>- Phil

We have some strange exports over here in Sweden. I know of one 
'68 Camaro with a factory Sunroof (Americans experts that hear about 
this car say its impossible, there were no 68 Camaros with sunroofs).
The car is assembled in Antweerpen Belgium (!).

My '75 Camaro came with KPH speedo and 3point safety belts in the front
*and* rear seats.

Also its quite common with strange option combos. Like a '69 AMC Javelin I
know of that came with heavy duty suspension, stiff sway bars, quick ratio
steering, posi rear, front discs and the smallest six cylinder engine!

Markus

----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 14:25:25 1993
Subject: Fast Idle Sticks (winter only)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6655
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I had a chevy 305 in my car which I replaced with a targetmaster 350
in the fall.  The next summer the engine would run hot.  I had the
4 bbl carb overhauled and it quit running hot.  Unfortunately in the
wintertime it idles extremely fast.  It seems like the fast idle gets
stuck on.  Sometimes it will kick down into a medium fast idle, but
it never drops down to idle when its cold.  This does not happen until
the outside temps drop below 40 to 50.  I got a junk carb from salvage
and tried to figure out what is going on, but wasn't successful.
The mileage drops from 15 down to about 10 mph in town.  I don't think
the problem is with the choke since the plugs don't get fouled.
So... What do I need to adjust or replace?
      Where can a get a book or manual that explains how to adjust
the quadrajet.  Most books that I've found talk about carbs in
general, but don't get specific about any.
Thanks
Mark W. Blunier  mwb5489@age2.age.uiuc.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!age.uiuc.edu!trumpet-user (Default Trumpet User)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 14:30:37 1993
Subject: RE: High RPM questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6656
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Hello all.  I have a few questions about getting my SB Chevy to rev better
>in the 5000+ RPM range.  I have some pretty good ideas where the problem
>is (are) but wanted to toss them out and see if anyone else had any other
>possibilities.
>
>I took the car to the track last week and it went good, but I noticed that
>it seemed to be falling off once I got it up above 5000 RPMs.  First, here
>is the engine combination:
>	350 Small Block Chevy, bored .040 over, 10:1 flat top forged pistons
>	Dart II S/R heads, 2.02 intake, 1.60 exhaust valves

Two things:
1) Are you sure about that 10.0:1 compression - with flat top pistons and 
close to zero deck height you should just get 10.0:1 with 64cc combustion
chambers.  My .030 over 350 is at 9.6 with 64cc heads.  YMMV
2) Are your vavle springs strong enough to handle that cam?

>	cam: 292/302 adv dur, 234/244 dur @ .050, .488/.510 int/exh lift
>			114 lobe centers
>	Edelbrock Torker II intake
>	Holley 650cfm double pumper
The 650 cfm carb should be dead by 500 rpm.
800 cfm is about right for 7000 rpm.
So take your pick someware in between.  Remember you loose low speed 
drivability with the larger carbs...  Good rule of thumb for race carbs:
Power band is from 1/3 flow to 2/3 flow (FOR RACE CARBS ONLY).  So a 750
will work best from 250 cfm to 500 cfm...

>	Heddmann hedders, wrapped in Thermotec header wraps
>	2 1/2" exhaust throughout, through Flowmaster mufflers
>	Stock HEI ignition with Accel Super Coil

Some HEI have problems going beyond 5000 - to much current through the
electronics...  Either get a better / external module or you can look at 
MSD which should come with its own electronics.

>The last thing I am wondering about (and have the most questions on) is the
>intake.  The car already has tons of low end grunt (flick of the pedal, the
>tires go *poof* :) which I assumed it wouldn't with the Torker II.  What I 
>am thinking of is going to something like an Edelbrock Victor JR intake instead
>of the Torker II I already have, as it does have tons of low end, so I don't
>mind losing some of it.  Does anyone have any experience with the Victor
>series of manifolds?  Or can someone suggest a better manifold to use?

Torquers are ment for 3500-8000 rpm.  I don't know about torker II's.
Check the spec on the torker before you spend your money (buy the new
carb first - maybe vacumm secondary...)

Hope this helps
Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 19:30:37 1993
Subject: SAE ..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6663
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Does anyone have any info on the SAE .. like address, phone #, etc.

Do they have a list of publications, and do they publish any monthly
magazines or journals ...

Thanks,

Jim Conforti

---------------------------------
WORK: 1-800-288-8020 (x3406)
FAX: (801) 373-1889
INET: jec@cpu.us.dynix.com
---------------------------------


----------
Posted by: Jim Conforti 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu Oct  7 20:55:25 1993
Subject: Re: High idle on Q-Jet
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6662
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

To the guy whose carb gets stuck at high idle during the winter:

You might need a new choke coil, or you need to adjust it.  If it has a choke
coil that sits in a depression in the manifold, you adjust it by bending the
rod that goes up to the lever on the passenger's side of the carb.  When the
engine's warm, there should be no slack in it.  The choke should be wide
open.  If it's not, you need to make the rod longer by straightening out the
bend in the rod a little.  If you have the newer type choke with a big black
plastic choke cover on the side of the carb, I think you adjust it by
loosening up some screws and rotating the choke housing.  Don't over adjust,
or your choke will never close when it's cold.  If the choke coil is shot, it
just doesn't move enough to open up the choke fully.  There is also a
high-idle speed adjustment screw on the passenger's side of the carb.  The
high idle cam has several steps, it should be on the highest step (engine
still cold) when you adjust the high idle.

If you have the old manifold mounted choke coil, make sure it has the small
metal box which covers it, and make sure that the rod which goes up to the
carb is not restricted in any way (hitting the box, or dragging on
something).  The box helps to get the choke coil up to engine temp by keeping
the cool air off of it.

If you have headers, or the heat-riser valve on the exhaust is stuck open,
then you don't get any exhaust flowing through the intake manifold when cold.
Then your choke coil takes forever to get heated up.  

Hope this helps,
Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu Oct  7 21:27:12 1993
Subject: Red Convertable Car For Sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6661
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



FOR SALE:

1976 Red MG B Convertable

Perfect condition both inside and out
78K Miles
Cylinder Head Professionally Rebuilt at 70K Miles (racing springs added)
Engine Professionally Rebuilt at 40K Miles
Webber Down Draft Carborator (@30 MPG) Currently in Car
Webber Side Draft Carborator (big performance booster)
American Racing Rims with 14" 195-60 series BF Goodrich Tires
Pull Out Hi-Wattage AM-FM Stereo/Tape
New Soft Top
Hard Top
Tonneau Cover
Soft Top Boot
Recent Paint Job
Stainless Steel Exhaust with Headers
New Starter, Battery, etc.

This car is in perfect condition and has provided me with reliable
transportation (not to mention fun) for many years.

Please direct any offers/questions to:  ggeorge@remus.rutgers.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!trident.usacs.rutgers.edu!ggeorge (Greg George)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu Oct  7 21:27:16 1993
Subject: Re: Tuning a Carter AFB
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6660
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
>Subject:Tuning a Carter AFB
>Date: Thu, 07 Oct 93 16:24:13 GMT
>
>   I just aquired a 625 Carter AFB (used, but not abused :) as a
>replacement for the ailing Q-jet on my Olds 350.    Bolted it on, and
>it runs fine, except for the top end.  Removed it, took it apart,
>cleaned out the goop, re-installed.  Ran better.   Still no real top
>end.
>
>   0->1/2 throttle is excellent.
>
>   _SLOWLY_ going from 1/2->WOT is okay.
>
>   Snapping the throttle from 0->WOT or 1/2->WOT results in a nasty 
>    bog until the engine catches up with the carb, or so it feels.
>    Feels like a Q-jet with the air doors too loose.
>


I've got a 625 too, it's in a 302 Bronco.  I also have a 450cfm in my Jeep.
You gotta get the *Strip Kit*, it contains every jet and metering rod
available for the AFB's.  I don't know what they go for nowadays, I got
mine in 1978 for $30 I think.  It's the same kit for all AFB's, even
15 years later!

It sounds like you're getting too much gas at once.  This could be the
jet size, the metering rods or the accelerator pump.  An easy thing to
try is moving the accelerator pump rod, there are three positions.
I have mine at the top, which brings on more gas faster, you might need
less.  In the kit, there are three different sized pump injectors (the
little thing that squirts the accelerator pump's gas at the top of the
venturi.

Try advancing the timing, I'm running 16 BTDC vs 6 BTDC (factory spec).

Do you know what jets sizes you have?  How about the metering rods?

Here's an 800 number for Carter if you want to call them: 800-325-4664


   _/_/_/_/  _/     _/    _/       _/        Rick Colombo colombo@fnal.gov
  _/        _/_/   _/   _/ _/     _/        Fermi National  Accelerator Lab
 _/_/_/    _/  _/ _/  _/_/_/_/   _/        Of course I speak for:  Fermilab,
_/        _/     _/  _/     _/  _/_/_/_/  Congress and the President ... NOT!

----------
Posted by: Rick Colombo 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct  7 21:28:41 1993
Subject: Water Injection
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6664
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	My brother has a 350 he has just finished building which has
305 heads (59cc) and 10:1 flat-top pistons (10:1 using 64cc heads).
I haven't any idea what the overall compression now is, but it's
up there. He doesn't want to use octane additives or an octane
injection system, so he was thinking of water injection.

	The engine is the basic big cam, overly carbureted, chromed 350.

	Edelbrock makes a nice water injection system, but it has a
rather large price attached. So I was thinking of building a simple,
but controllable injection system, and my question is:

	Would it be possible to use a single fuel injector to inject
WATER into the intake? He has a bunch of empty vacuum ports he doesn't
use because he doesn't have one vacuum accessory (unless you count
ditributor advance off the carb's ported advance port.) To make it
simple, the injector pulse rate and width could be controlled
directly by the driver, so no sensors would be needed.

[Unfortunately no.  I once tried flushing an injector with soap and water.
The pintle was rusted in place in seconds. REAL tight tolerances.  You 
MIGHT be able to find an injector designed for methanol if you contacted
Bosch or Bendix but I'm not aware of one off-the-shelf.  JGD]

	My ignorance of fuel injection is quite wide (in fact, in
my religion "Blown Blocks", we don't even admit fuel injectors
exist), so what kind of water pressure will I have to maintain
on the other end of the injector, is a small, stock TBI injector
good enough (in terms of flow rate) for 8 cylinder engine at
5000-6000 RPMs, and is there any other knowledge that I might
need? (If I have to maintain a high water pressure on the injector,
are there any cheap, universal electric water pumps that can
do this? If not, would a cheap, junkyard electric fuel pump be
okay for such an application?)

	I suppose the best spray pattern would be a fine, dispersive
mist. Can the injector controller directly control the spray
pattern of an injector?

	Any help appreciated. (My other option is to get JC
Whitney's $9.99 water injection system, which just sucks
water through a vacuum port. I hear it keeps the car real
cool by continually stalling it out.)


                                                    Jason

Anything good in life is either illegal, immoral, or fattening.
Anything not fitting into these catagories causes cancer in rats.

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu Oct  7 21:43:57 1993
Subject: Re: MSD ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6657
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>
>> >
>> Will an electronic tachometer or timing light work with an MSD ignition?
>>
>> [Yes from the "tach" terminal in the case of the tach]
>>
>> Curious guy wants to know.
>>
>> ----------
>> Posted by: Tom Carver 
>
>       A little note of warning on two counts here. MOST tachs will
>work with MSD. The inexpensive SUN line didnt USED to work. (I dont know
>if this is still true)

    I have one the 'cheap' Sun Tach's (The $50 List Super Tach II - bought at
Kmart for $45) that works fine with my MSD-6A.  The books that came with the
MSD stated that the tach wouldn't work without their 'conversion kit'.  I
figured I'd give it a shot, and it worked.

    I have been using a cheap clamp-on inductive timing light on the
Heli-core wires which works, but I can only assume that it is accurate.

-Jeff
jpd3@Lehigh.edu
'69 Mach I

----------
Posted by: emory!Lehigh.EDU!jpd3 (Jeff Dillman)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu Oct  7 21:48:21 1993
Subject: Dinan ..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6659
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Does anyone have Dinan Engineering's # handy ...

I'd like to give em a call ..

I'm at work, Roundels are at home ..

Thanks 

Jim Conforti



----------
Posted by: Jim Conforti 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu Oct  7 21:51:27 1993
Subject: Amplifiers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6658
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Does anyone have some plans or schematics to build an amplifier/booster
to increase the power going into a coil.  Or is it worth the price to
just buy a MSD or other box.

Thanks
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

[If you're talking about a conventional Kettering ignition (points or
electronic) it is very easy.  The energy delivered to the plug is stored
in the coil's inductance.  It it proportional to the inductance of the
coil and the current.  Increase either and the energy delivered goes up.
Increasing the current in a stock coil is problematic because of heat.
One technique is simply to parallel another inductor across the coil's
primary.  Note this is to be an inductor and NOT another coil.  I've had
great success using the secondary of a 24 volt, 3.5 amp filament
transformer from Rat Shack.  Simply leave the primary open (and
insulated).  One such inductor will just about double the spark
intensity.  When you do this, however, you MUST check to be sure the
assembly fully charges at the maximum anticipated RPM.  Likely it won't
at the stock current level.

The way to check is to watch the voltage across the coil with a scope.
You should see the voltage start at 12 volts and drop as the current
builds and voltage starts dropping across the ballast resistor.  You
should see the voltage asymtope before the next spark.  If the next
spark occurs while the voltage is still changing, that means the coil is
not fully charging.  One should also scope the (-) terminal of the 
coil referenced to ground to make sure the pass transistor in the 
ignition is capable of sinking the current.  If it is, the voltage should
go near zero during the "dwell" time.  If it goes to zero and then creeps
up, that means the transistor isn't being driven hard enough to 
carry the full current.  Only easy solution is a different module.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  8 13:38:43 1993
Subject: Re: MSD ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6665
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I've been thinking about getting the MSD 6A box for my old Camaro daily
driver, and am wondering how big of a difference it wold make on a
mildly modified street car.  I already got a HEI unit that is rucurved
to give full advance (38dgr) at 2600rpm (god gas over here, no ping).
The HEI is otherwise stock.

The car runs strong and has a measured 0-60 at 6.4 secs. 

Would mileage improve? 0-60? 

With non resistor plugs and accel 8mm super stock wires, will I have
good FM reception?

Also, would I get the same results by only getting an Accel super coil
on an engine this mild?

Thanks

Markus


----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  8 13:43:48 1993
Subject: 84 GTI engine stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6666
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	I have an 84 gti shortblock for sale
	I have the complete FI system (including in/ex/ manifolds, 
	all electronics, etc...) for sale

	The FI stuff can go UPS. The shortblock has to go truck, unless
	you live in Pa, NJ, MD, De, NY, in which case we could meet 
	somewhere to exchange it.
	If anyone is interested in any of this stuff, make me 
	an offer, buyer pays shipping.

Derek J. Pietro
Picker International
derekp@stdavids.picker.com

----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  8 13:48:44 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-37*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6667
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hello all,

Sorry about last week. I was ordered out of town without any warning.
It sounds like my friends at ESPN managed to add to the confusion too
(again ;-)

Bill
----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, my favorite bartender, and the nice folks at TNN.  PLEASE 
confirm dates and times with your local listings before setting your 
VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

Checkered Flag (Winston Cup @ N Wilks)10/09    6:30-7:00AM      ESPN
World Of Speed & Beauty               10/09    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic                    10/09    10:30-11:00AM    TNN
BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (L)               10/09    1:00-4:00PM      TBS
World Of Speed & Beauty               10/09    1:00-1:30PM      TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              10/09    1:30-2:00PM      TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               10/09    2:00-2:30PM      TNN
Formula Atlantic Season Summary       10/09    2:30-4:30PM      TSN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              10/09    2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      10/09    3:00-3:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (T)                   10/09    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek '93                         10/09    5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
IOGP POWERBOATS , WEST PALM BEACH (T) 10/09    5:00-5:30PM      TNN
NHRA, KEYSTONE NATIONALS (T)          10/09    10:00-11:00PM    HTS*
NASCAR Shop Talk w/Eli Gold           10/10    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
MotorWeek '93                         10/10    2:00-2:30AM      WGN
Motoworld                             10/10    3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (F1 @ Estoril)         10/10    6:00-6:30AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Laguna Seca)10/10    6:30-7:00AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               10/10    9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              10/10    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners                               10/10    10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              10/10    10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      10/10    11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           10/10   11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty               10/10    12:00-12:30PM    TNN
WINSTON CUP, CHARLOTTE (L)            10/10    1:00-5:05PM      TBS
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T)10/10    2:00-3:30PM      TNN
Winners                               10/10    3:30-4:00PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic                    10/10    5:30-6:00PM      TNN
AMA, DAYTONA 250 (T)                  10/10    6:00-7:30PM      TNN
DODGE/SHELBY DALLAS GRAND PRIX (T)    10/10    6:00-7:00PM      HTS*
NHRA, CRAFTSMAN NATIONALS, TOPEKA (T) 10/10    7:30-8:30PM      ESPN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              10/10    7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      10/10    8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           10/10    8:30-9:00PM      TNN
IMSA GTP, PHOENIX (T)                 10/10    8:30-11:00PM     ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (T)                10/10    9:00-10:30PM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic                    10/10    10:30-11:00PM    TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      10/10    11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              10/10   11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/10   11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               10/11    12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty               10/11    12:30-1:00AM     TNN
SAAB PRO SERIES, ELKART LAKE (T)      10/11    3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
IMSA GTP, PHOENIX (T)                 10/11    3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/12    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Movie: Days Of Thunder                10/12    9:00-11:00PM     CBS
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/13    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
M.T. OFF-ROAD GP, LAS VEGAS (T)       10/13    2:30-3:30PM      ESPN
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, VANCOUVER (T)        10/13    3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             10/13    11:00-11:30PM    ESPN
IOGP POWERBOATS , WEST PALM BEACH (T) 10/14    12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
DRAG RACING W/BOATS, PHOENIX (T)      10/14    1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/14    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IHRA SPORTSMAN NATIONALS, EPPING (T)  10/14    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/14    3:30-4:00AM      MTV
Cycle World                           10/14    1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     10/14    2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93                         10/14    8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           10/14    8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     10/14    9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                10/14    10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold        10/14   11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
WORLD MOTORCYCLE GP, MASANO (T)       10/15    12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/15    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             10/15    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
NHRA, KEYSTONE NATIONALS, READING (T) 10/15    3:30-4:30AM      ESPN
INDY LIGHTS, MID-OHIO (T)             10/15    1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
NHRA, CRAFTSMAN NATIONALS, TOPEKA (T) 10/15    1:30-2:30PM      ESPN
Prime Time Motorsports                10/15    1:30-2:00PM      HTS*
SCCA, ELKART LAKE (T)                 10/15    2:30-3:30AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             10/15    6:00-6:30PM      ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

BUSCH GN, DOVER (T)                   10/16    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (L)            10/17    1:00-3:00PM      TNN
Hydroplane Racing, San Diego (T)      10/17    1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, LOUDON (T)               10/17    9:00-10:30PM     TNN
NHRA NATIONALS, DALLAS (T)            10/17    10:00PM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, MID-OHIO (T)           10/19    7:30PM           ESPN
IHRA NATIONALS, EPPING (T)            10/19    10:30PM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, ROCKINGHAM (L)              10/23    2:00-4:30PM      TNN
FORMULA 1, SUZUKA, JAPAN (L)          10/23  11:50PM-2:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, ROCKINGHAM (L)           10/24    12:30-5:00PM     TNN
NHRA MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T) 10/24    6:05-7:30PM      TNN
IHRA, PRESIDENT'S CUP, BUDDS CREEK (T)10/26    10:30PM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            10/30    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, PHOENIX (L)              10/31    2:00-5:30PM      TNN
Thunder At The Summit ('93 NHRA season10/31    7:00-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA WINSTON FINALS, POMONA (L)       10/31    7:30-8:30PM      TNN
IHRA, FALL NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)     11/02    8:00PM           ESPN
NASCAR SPORTSMAN, NASHVILLE (T)       11/02    9:00PM           ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, DALLAS (T)             11/03    10:30PM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, ADELAIDE, OZ (L)           11/06    10:20PM          TSN [1]
FORMULA 1, ADELAIDE, OZ (T)           11/07    8:00-10:00AM     ESPN
BUSCH GN, HICKORY (?)                 11/07    TBA              TBA
ARCA, ATLANTA (T)                     11/14    12:00AM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, HOOTERS 500, ATLANTA (L) 11/14    12:30PM          ESPN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out RDS which broadcasts each race live. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim 
Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     ASN                Arizona                         Ben Loosli
     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
     PSN                Portland                       Mike Butts
  SportsChannel      San Francisco                     Chuck Fry
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  8 20:43:54 1993
Subject: Thanks ..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6668
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


To all who sent info on Dinan and the SAE ..

The number of helpful people always amazes me ..

Glad to be a part of these groups ..

Jim 




----------
Posted by: Jim Conforti 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct  8 20:48:13 1993
Subject: Do you have any "surplus" Motronic's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6669
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I'm looking for Motronic Boxes .. rev 1.0 and 1.1

1.0 was used on 325e / 325 / 528e with seperate Idle Control Unit ..

1.1 was used on (at least) 325i / 528e with no sep. ICU and 3-wire ICV

If you have a dying one that needs to be replaced, I'll buy your box
for the CORE charge + shipping .. mail me !!

If you have any "spares" you would like to donate to "science" also
please contact me ... 

Thanks,

Jim Conforti
(87 325is / 92 325i)

---------------------------------
WORK: 1-800-288-8020 (x3406)
FAX: (801) 373-1889
INET: jec@cpu.us.dynix.com
---------------------------------


----------
Posted by: Jim Conforti 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct  9 09:31:01 1993
Subject: Re: SAE ..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6670
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> Does anyone have any info on the SAE .. like address, phone #, etc.
> 
	Society of Automotive Engineers inc.
	400 Commonwealth D
	Warrendale PA 15096-0001

	Fax: SAE Membership Division  (412) 776-2103

	Dues run up 73 dolars but their are several difrent catagories
I.E. students is 10$

> Do they have a list of publications, and do they publish any monthly
> magazines or journals ...

	Yes, a monthly jornal called Automotive Engineering is part of the
membership.  I really like it.  No instructions on how to do anything but
test the hoods on Feiros but lots of stuff on things like Mazda's miller
cycle motor and other engineering feets not cavered by the normal press. 
The only anounce I have with the mag is that everything including engine
output is metric (kilowatts and N-M) If I didn't have an HP I'd be a
more anonyed though.
	They have an entire CD rom refrence of their publications whoch
membership gives you a discount on.

Henry

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 10 15:36:13 1993
Subject: wanted: 70-73 camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6671
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I KNOW THAT SOME OF YOU OUT THERE HAVE BEEN IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS AND
I SURE COULD USE SOME HELP FROM SOME OF YOU FELLOW MUSCLE CAR ENTHUSIASTS..

i just talked my wife into letting me sell her car, giving her my newer 
truck, and then us purchasing the car of my dreams, a 70-73 camaro.

i have been looking for a month now and can't find one anywhere. i know
that a month isn't very long but she is getting ticked quick about this 
one vehicle stuff!!

she is only giving me another couple of weeks or else she will really be
wanting to buy a second vehicle...any kind. (this is not what i want).

i want a 70-73 CAMARO ONLY. no deep rust and straight body. must be driver.
that's all. doesn't have to be real pretty. 

i am in college station texas at Texas A&M but will travel nearly 
anywhere in the state, and possibly to another close by state if worth it.

Even if know someone who has one they want to sell please give me their
number and i will call them. 

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU WHO COULD HELP.

please e-mail me at teb0958@rigel.tamu.edu and i will call ya back
or call me at 409-823-5243.

-tom




----------
Posted by: emory!rigel.tamu.edu!teb0958 (BURNS, THOMAS EDWARD)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 11 14:47:13 1993
Subject: ESPN Last Night
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6672
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                          SUBJECT:  ESPN Last Night
Last night I was taping the Topeka NHRA Nationals off ESPN (we were there!!!) 
Pretty neat seeing those record setting runs again, plus all the pit interviews
and stuff ... ANYWAY ...

Right after was the Hot Rod magazine sponsored "Fastest Street Car in America
Competition".  The entrants all had to complete a 25 miles stop and go street
test without stalling or overheating.  I noticed in the parade a glimpse of a
turqoise colored Regal or Monte.  Pushed the freeze frame button, and sure
enough, there was Lawrence Connely's Tweaked Turbo Regal!!!  I've seen the car
turn low 9s with the single Turbo V6 at the GS Nationals.  Being an avid Buick
fan/owner, I watched with interest!

He made it into the field and went all the way to the Semis, where he did a
wild wheelstand and got out of it ...

The winner was a Camaro owned and driven by some NBA star that plays for the
Denver Nuggets.  The car went 7.70s @ 160+ mph ... WOW!  It really needed it's
parachute!  Lots of high 8 cars and about 3 low 8 second cars.  Most were
running Nitrous and 600+ c.i.d. motors.  Lots of tube chassis and Lexan
windows, etc.  Street Legal in the strictest sense of the word (they had
license plate brackets <*grin*>), but not exactly something to cruise around
town in comfortably.

One car (another Camaro, I think) had a 1200 hp Pro Stock motor, but had glass
windows, stock chassis (except for tubs), full interior, etc ... and ran in the
8's thru the muffs!  I was more impressed with this type of effort, than the
thinly disguised race cars.  The guys that brought this car were complaining
about the rules that allowed the tube chassis, engine set backs, firewall mods,
plastic bodies, etc.  They had a point, although it was ineloquently expressed
... they looked like whiners in front of the cameras.

Anyway, Connely was in the hunt, but low 9s don't quite cut it in this type of
company!

-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  A *BOOST* of Buick Performance

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 11 14:49:34 1993
Subject: Re: SAE ..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6673
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Speaking of the SAE, there's a new oil rating 'SH'. Does anyone
know how the specs for SG change for SH?

joe

----------
Posted by: emory!sybase.com!joe (Joseph Weinstein)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 11 16:37:42 1993
Subject: Re: MSD ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6674
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The MSD-6A is the only way to go!!!
You should notice 0-60  times drop slightly because
you will have better throttle response!! Your gas
mileage may also increase because the fuel is burnt
better!!!!
                          SCREAMIN' INJUN



----------
Posted by: emory!JUNCOL.JUNIATA.EDU!COSTALE2
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 11 16:41:43 1993
Subject: custom O2 gague (& others)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6675
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


again, this may be a re-post, but i never saw the origonal go out (on
either system, or any responces directed to it...) so, here it is:

greetings:
 
  i have a question for the collective knowledge-base assembled here.
i am in the process of fixing up an old nova, and wanted to have some
fun with the gages (and try to get the gages i need to help me keep the
engine in top shape).  i'm trying to get ideas so that i can plan the
budget...  (or guess what the year will be when i have the $$$ to do
it...)
 
  these questions deal with the air/fuel mix sensor (like cyberdyne's
in the summit catalog):
 - where does the sensor need to be located, ie real close to the
   engine (reporting on just one cylinder (and hoping it is
   'typical')), or can it be put down on the collector, so it would
   report on how the cylinders (as a whole) are doing?
 - how does the placement affect the accuracy/linearity (or what else?)
 - does the sensor come with a full spec sheet (ie what the voltage or
   resistance is for different a/f ratios, or can one be obtained?
 
  which leads me to the thought that brought on the questions: i want
to make a small 'gage' for a/f ratios (i don't like the look of the
cyberdyne unit), with 5 lights or led's on it:
   1) red    -> way too lean
   2) yellow -> fuel-economy cruise (slightly lean)
   3) green  -> stoich
   4) yellow -> acceleration (slightly rich)
   5) red    -> way too rich
 
  questions relating to the gage are:
 - what do you think?  other points to monitor, more 'inbetween' steps?
   i've considered an under-dash plug-in for a set of comparitors that
   could have more resolution...
 - any clues as to a good way to tie the lights (especially if i use
   led's) into the master dimmer switch?
 - ideas for 'bulletproofing' the power supply (other than regulate it
   down to ~8v to make sure you're never caught short)?
 - grades of components for under-dash environment? (ie is there an
   'auto' grade between consumer & mil-spec?)
 
  another question, this on air temperature reading: i have been in a
jeep with an out- door thermometer (i assume it's for the fuel
injection system), and was wondering how difficult it would be to
create one?  is there such a thing as a reasonably linear thermocouple
(or a thermocouple & amp pair that produce a linear result)?  i'm
hoping to do better than  'go to k-mart & rip open a digital
thermometer', but if that's really the best way to go....
 
  also, i was considering buying some extra senders and using a bunch
of comparitors to test for excessive conditions (over temperature &
pressure for tranny,...) and wire-or-ing them together to one big idiot
light (but no gague).  thoughts/comments on this?  (perhaps a switch to
re-use a gage (electrical) for water/oil/tranny temp & oil/tranny
pressure?)
 
later (and thanks in advance),
kc

ps - to make sure i get it, could any replies also be directed to one
     of my mailboxes?  kking@io.com   or  kking@cs.uah.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 11 16:46:45 1993
Subject: Re: Ford 289 questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6676
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi Dave
Who stuck the 289 into your Galaxie, shoulda been a 260.
Try swaping in a 302 assembly when you rebuild it, a few more cubes
help.
If'n you aren't concerned about stock, I'd go over to a dual exhaust
with a crossover and two  mufflers.
Your mileage should rise with the addition of new rings.
I had a 1971 Torino, about the same weight, with a 289 and I got around
20 in town and 26 if I kept it down on the highway.

***************************************************************
Millam E. Tackitt                        met@naucse.cse.nau.edu

1967 Cougar XR-7 271/289 4spd/CR 4spd

For Sale: '64 Galaxie XL 352CID, console auto, ps, front and 
          rear buckets, new beige paint and white carpet, 
          original white interior.
          $4000.00 
          '68 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 4bbl fresh rebuild, Auto, 
          power discs, ps, ac, deluxe tint, new white paint 
          and red int.
          $3500.00 
***************************************************************
Disclaimer: NAU isn't concerned with what I say, 
            This is an Alumni account.

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 11 16:52:19 1993
Subject: Re: '70-'73 Camaros
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6677
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I've known a few people with '70 - '73 Camaros, so here's a few comments:

A lot of them (even California cars), have rust problems due to leaky
windshield and back window gaskets.  Also, ones with vinyl tops have lots of
rust under the tops.  They also have leaky trunk gaskets which lead to rust
in the trunk and quarter panels.

I think a lot of the 70s were equipped with 250 horsepower 350s.  The 2bbl
carb was kind of lame.  If you're going to have to get a smog check on it
someday, make sure it's got all the goodies:  correct air cleaner with a
snorkel tube, anti-diesel solenoid, transmission switch, etc. etc. or you'll
be in for a lot of hassle someday.

The hood clearance is minimal, I've seen several with non-stock carbs and
manifolds in which the air cleaner tie down stud had slammed a hole right
through the hood.  Get a Z-28 hood if you want a big carb and manifold.

If I was going to get one, I'd spend more time looking for one with minimal
rust problems and straight quarter panels/trunk.  Mechanical problems are
pretty easy to fix, but rusted out dashboard areas, rear decklid, and quarter
panels are a big pain.  Don't get one that's had the rear end caved in a
pulled out -- it'll eventually look like a cracked up chunk of bondo.

Look in the back of Hot Rod or something and you'll find dozens of places
devoted to selling Camaro Parts.  You can get a complete new interior package
for about $300 from some of them, so keep that in mind if you find a Camaro
with a Cherry body but a beer-soaked interior.

Good luck,
another Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 11 23:39:00 1993
Subject: Re: custom O2 gague (& others) 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6678
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

--------

   In message  , you write:
 
| 
|   these questions deal with the air/fuel mix sensor (like cyberdyne's
| in the summit catalog):
|  - where does the sensor need to be located, ie real close to the
|    engine (reporting on just one cylinder (and hoping it is
|    'typical')), or can it be put down on the collector, so it would
|    report on how the cylinders (as a whole) are doing?
|  - how does the placement affect the accuracy/linearity (or what else?)

Sensor location is important for the non-heated EGO sensor. Too close
to the engine and it will become too hot and shorten the life
expectancy. Too far way and the sensor may not stay warm enough to
work at idle.  Location is not a problem for the thick film heated
sensors (TFHEGO), and placement in the collector is fine.

|  - does the sensor come with a full spec sheet (ie what the voltage or
|    resistance is for different a/f ratios, or can one be obtained?
|  
|   which leads me to the thought that brought on the questions: i want
| to make a small 'gage' for a/f ratios (i don't like the look of the
| cyberdyne unit), with 5 lights or led's on it:
|    1) red    -> way too lean
|    2) yellow -> fuel-economy cruise (slightly lean)
|    3) green  -> stoich
|    4) yellow -> acceleration (slightly rich)
|    5) red    -> way too rich
|  


As far as I know (which may not be much :) ), all of these gauges for
under $150 that claim to cover such a wide A/F range (specifically on
the rich side) ARE bullshit...  I bought the Edelbrock air/fuel
monitor (see post end of March/93 in the archives -- ece.rutgers.edu)
and traced out the circuit. It uses a TFHEGO in the voltage
generation mode which can really only indicate 2-states (rich/lean).
Needless to say that I was not happy and you should not waste your
money on that one....  Before you buy one of these, run down to that
auto parts store and get a generic 3-wire sensor.

To build a wide-range Air/Fuel meter, you need something like a UEGO
sensor (again see the archives) that would use a oxygen cramming
method or oxygen bias method (see SAE journals). This can cover the
range .6
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct 13 10:19:53 1993
Subject: Re: custom O2 gague (& others)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6679
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In message Mon, 11 Oct 93 22:41 EDT,
  hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)  writes:

> As far as I know (which may not be much :) ), all of these gauges for
> under $150 that claim to cover such a wide A/F range (specifically on
> the rich side) ARE bullshit...

That has pretty much been my experience with the Cyberdyne gauge. It is,
however, good for two things:

1) It will let you know ahead of time if your EGO sensor starts to crap out.

2) It will let you know if your A/F ratio is approaching stoich under heavy
throttle. Of course, if the mixture is nearing stoich under heavy throttle,
it's probably already to lean... but SOME warning is better than NO warning
at all.

Mine has 10 LEDS, but they are arranged in the RED-YELLOW-GREEN-YELLOW-RED
sequence that you describe. They have no numeric ratio indications on the
gauge, but the data sheet that comes with it does describe the ratios that
correspond to each LED segment. They include a table for both gasoline and
propane. I can't lay my fingers on the tables right this instant, but I do
recall that the total range of A/F mixture covered was VERY narrow.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Granville                                        (day)814-865-3310
Applied Research Lab           gag1@psu.edu           (eve)814-339-7244
Penn State University                                  cell phone broke
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


----------
Posted by: "Greg Granville"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct 13 10:26:49 1993
Subject: Re: custom O2 gague (& others) 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6680
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

--------

   In message  , I wrote:
 
| Thermocouples are inherently nonlinear (at least over a large
| temperature range). Check out the National Semiconductor data

Ok. I wrote this before looking it up. There are some alloys used
in making thermocouples that are close to linear over temperature
ranges as large as a thousand degrees (F) or more.  Examples:
Chromel & Constantan; iron & Constantan; Chromel & Alumel; ...
ANSI standard C96.1 establishes the standard to classify the
materials.

                                       John S Gwynne
                                          Gwynne.1@osu.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
               T h e   O h i o - S t a t e   U n i v e r s i t y
    ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA
                Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: John S Gwynne 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct 13 13:36:08 1993
Subject: flathead w/blower
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6681
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu





	I haven't seen alot of flathead talk here but since it sertainly
qualifies as hot ros I thought I'd try.
	Does anyone know where I can get the intake that came with a
McColough supercharger that would fit a '47 Ford Flathead for a freind?

Henry

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct 13 13:40:00 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6682
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Quadrajet tuning prob. #861
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 08:03:08 GMT
Lines: 19

Okay, Quadrajet tuning problem number 861.....  When I stomp on it
and the secondaries open, it bogs pretty bad.  If I step on it slowly
it doesn't do it, but it is only when the secondaries open.  I wouldn't
think that this would be the accelerator pump since it's dependant upon
the secondaries.  Hmmm....

Also once in a while right after the 1-2 shift it will just lie down and
die with a bad bog.  I would assume that this is from leaning out
drastically.  Fuel flow to the carb?  It has a new fuel pump (stock),
and fuel filter, but it's one of the ones inside the carb.  I haven't
gotten around to putting the in-line one in yet.  Is this probably
the problem, or maybee float height, jet size, or what?  Any ideas?
Thanks for your help!

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct 13 18:41:08 1993
Subject: Re: Q-Jet problem 851
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6683
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I fixed the WOT bog on one of my Q-Jet equipped cars by getting the timing
right.  I found out that I had been running way too advanced.  I set the
initial timing back from about 20 to 12.  Now I have no WOT bog.

My other Q-Jet equipped car has a similar problem on the partial throttle 1-2
and 2-3 upshifts just like you described.  It also does the same thing really
bad right after a sharp right hand turn.  It must have something to do with
the fuel level in the bowl.  I was just rechecking the timing and everything
last night.  Everything seems okay, except that I have a rough idle and get
really lousy mileage:  11mpg last week.  Could a low fuel level in the bowl
cause the idle to be screwy and cause boggy upshifts?  Is it possible that
I'm running way too lean (need bigger jets), and I'm getting worse mileage
because I have to put too much throttle into my everyday driving just to make
up for the lean-ness caused lack of power?  When I floor it and the
secondaries open up, then the car goes like a rocket.  It pulls strong up to
5000 rpm which is where I draw the line (I don't want to blow it up).  I've
taken all of your advice and made sure the cenrifical advance and vacuum
advance work correctly and kick in at the right rpms.  I've pretty much got
the problem narrowed down to the primary fuel mixture or possibly the
accelerator pump.  The Q-Jet is a 6-month old rebuilt from Kragens.  It's got
a lifetime guarantee which I'll void if I open up the carb.  Maybe I should
just return it and get another -- who knows maybe I'll get one that works
right.  Should a carb built to factory specs work fine, or do I need to rejet
it and monkey with the accelerator pump just because it's got a hotter cam,
mildly ported heads, and headers?  Are a lot of rebuilds done sloppy?  I know
I wouldn't ever buy one of their $800 rebuilt motors!

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 14 10:54:22 1993
Subject: thanks
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6685
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

i appreciate your suggestions and tidbits...it's help to know where 
the trouble spots might lie before i look..

thanks
tom

----------
Posted by: emory!RIGEL.TAMU.EDU!TEB0958
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 14 15:58:17 1993
Subject: Very outdated thinking by cam companies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6686
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have access to some very neat engine simulation/tuning software.
The software wants complete cam profile data - tappet lift for every
degree of crankshaft rotation.  The problem?  The camshaft companies
I have spoken with refuse to release complete cam profile data.  They
will only give you tiny bits of information.  Close, but not close
enough.

There are a number of products out there to profile a camshaft for 
every degree of rotation.  In fact, it wouldn't be very difficult to
build such a machine.  I don't own one, but I have friends who do.

I'm currently running a Competition Cams 282S in my Solo II C Prepared
Capri.  Since the cam is in the engine, I can't get a profile on it
right now.

I gave Comp Cams a call and they said _No Way_.  They said it would be
like giving away the combination to the vault - they'd be handing the
data to their competitors on a silver platter.  I mentioned that the
Cam Dr. is cheap, and that even a fairly low buck team could afford
one.  Surely all of their competitors have the ability to measure any
of their cams.  What's the big secret?  He couldn't tell me.  It was
very frustrating.  Crane gave me the same BS.

I asked him how he felt about me measuring my cam and other peoples
cams and publishing the results.  He said I could do whatever I
wanted, but didn't know what copyright or patent violations would
occur.  Certainly not a patent violation, and I don't believe there
are any copyright issues, since I am not copying their cam.  I will
most likely make all of the cam profiles I can available (via anon
ftp).

This outdated thinking is really disturbing.  They should be pleased
that someone running their cam has so much interest in developing 
the combination.  Do want the car with their stickers to go fast?

I'd really like to know how badly a given cam will be beating
up my valve train before purchasing it.  I won't know that if I 
buy a non-custom grind from these guys.  When determine a desirerable cam
profile, I won't really have any way to know how close their off the shelf
grinds come (without buying and measuring).

I may write a letter to Circle Track about the situation.  I don't know
if they'll print it.  Any other suggestions?

  Brian


---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com

----------
Posted by: emory!pms706.pms.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 14 16:02:43 1993
Subject: Stainless Steel Headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6687
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                          SUBJECT:  Stainless Steel Headers
I should be getting my new stainless steel headers for my GN tomorrow...  My
question is:

 Will the stainless steel will discolor with heat?  I'm just wondering if I
should sandblast them and paint them or just polish them and leave them
"natural".

I've been borrowing a set for a couple weeks from a friend that were HPC
coated, and the coating is actually showing some "bubbling" ... little pinprick
rough spots in the shiny silver coating.  Mainly near the exhaust ports and the
turbo.

Looks like heat related discoloration to me (which isn't supposed to happen
according to the advertisements!!!).  I'm urging my friend to return them to be
redone, since this coating cost him about $250 for the headers/cross over pipe/
down pipe ... damn expensive!

-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  A *BOOST* of Buick Performance

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 15 09:43:55 1993
Subject: Stainless headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6688
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

All of the stainless headers I've seen eventually get blued or sometimes
chalky looking close to the engine.  A common practice with stainless steel
is to "passivate" it by soaking in weak nitric acid and then following that
with an alkaline rinse (baking soda's fine) to neutralize any residual nitric
acid.  The nitric brightens the stainless and gives it a thin chromium oxide
layer on the surface which protects it from further discoloration.  It's the
chrome and nickel in stainless steel which make it "stainless".  

I think the blued stainless looks cool, but you can polish away the blueness
with some aluminum oxide based polishing compound.  Wenol is pretty good.

It's probably a lot easier to polish the headers first, then clean them, then
install them.  If they start out polished, they'll have less nooks and
crannys to get blued, and they should be easier to keep polished.

Coating usually don't stick well at all to stainless because there is not
much of a chemical bond.  The chromium oxide on the surface of the stainless
is pretty inert chemically.  That's why it's tough to braze or solder
stainless without using some really nasty acid based fluxes.

My 2 pitiful cents worth --

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 15 09:49:54 1993
Subject: RE: Very outdated thinking by cam companies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6689
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I have access to some very neat engine simulation/tuning software.
>The software wants complete cam profile data - tappet lift for every
>degree of crankshaft rotation.  The problem?  The camshaft companies
>I have spoken with refuse to release complete cam profile data.  They
>will only give you tiny bits of information.  Close, but not close
>enough.

>I'm currently running a Competition Cams 282S in my Solo II C Prepared
>Capri.  Since the cam is in the engine, I can't get a profile on it
>right now.

Simple.  Get a cam degreeing kit.  Needed is 1 degree wheel and a 
micrometer.  You'll need to remove your intake - so that you have
access to the lifters.  The proper way to profile a cam is to measure
it in your car.  Use old lifters that you can modify so that they
don't bleed down or use solid lifters.

To make that software work you'll probably have to know if the cam
is retarded or advanced anyway.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 15 09:56:18 1993
Subject: Q-Jet mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6690
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 My increasing frustration with my Holleys may lead me back to Quadrajet
tinkering. I have the original Q-jets for a '67 430 and '70 455 Buick. 
The older one is pretty neat and simple. So far the only changes I have
made are to remove the crud and modifying the throttle shaft hardware
to work the modern TH350 and throttle linkages; I did this by cutting
the end stamping off a newer carb and welding it onto the old one. The
shafts were not interchangeable.

 One thing I notice is that the fuel feed path looks awfully restricted.
One little 1/4" line, an even tinier float valve. Since I want to get to
maybe 500HP eventually (on a 455), I figure this may end up being a problem
(and hopefully, soon).

 Can anyone recommend a source for modified Q-Jet pieces such as better-
flowing float valves, snouts with larger-diameter flare fittings, etc.?
Anybody ever take a burr to a Q-jet to improve fuel handling (successfully)?

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 15 10:38:12 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6691
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
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----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct 16 01:24:21 1993
Subject: Re: Very outdated thinking by cam companies 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6698
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



My $0.02 + tax.

I have discussed this cam issue with Brian a little bit before.  I
can sympathize with his situation, but you have to consider the
cam company's point of view.  In many racing classes, the cam
profile is one of the few areas of uncontrolled modification.  You
may be told what type of cam to use (hydraulic, flat, roller), but
the profile is up to you to choose.

At the machine shop, we have a computer assisted tool for measuring
cams.  After looking at hundreds of cams, I can say that duration and
lift mean very little.  Two cams with identical duration and lift can
be totally different in profile, and there are hundreds of profiles
to choose from, not including custom grinds.  I am sure a cam company
wants to keep this as close to them as possible.  It is not that you
can't find out, but......

...One cam company we used to deal with gave someone else the profile to
one of our custom ground cams.  Needless to say, we were quite pissed
since it was the result of hundreds of hours of dyno time and thousands
of dollars of custom cam purchases.  We don't do business with them
anymore, and they don't understand why.  The new company we do business
with has been sworn to secrecy, and they actually like working that way.
It is possible that companies (except one) can only enforce this kind of
secrecy if they do it in a very general, company-wide policy.

Some tech notes.  It is surprising (well to me anyway) how much the
cam timing varies from one lobe to another on certain cams.  The cam
companies seem to have the duration/lift nailed down, but the timing
is something to be desired.  I have seen some vary as much as five
degrees across the cam.  Now that companies we deal with know we measure
the cams, the custom stuff we get is quite accurate, so the technology
is there (perhaps the attention to quality needs adjusting).  Also,
any non-custom cam has quite gentle lobe ramps, to protect the valve
train.  If you want more aggressive ramps, you need to be able to talk
valve train acceleration and forces.  It seems the cam companies have
some serious tools (simulators and other software possibly) to help
design aggressive ramps within the capabilities of your valve train.
With such cams, they are also very interested in wear and reliability
feedback.


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 13:38:34 1993
Subject: Re: Stainless Steel Headers 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6699
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

--------

   In message  , you write:
 
| 
| 	On the topic of exaust components and coatings, has anyone had
| any experience Jet Hot coatings? They advertise in some of the performance
| magazines. This winter I plan on having the exaust plumbing coated on
| my turbo 240Z. Any info appriciated.

I've had the headers (fender exit) and side pipes on my Jeep
coated by JET HOT seven months ago. It's my daily drive and so far
they are holding up nicely (much better then the chrome set I had
before).  After a quick polish, they still look like they did when
they came out of the box. I'll be driving it throughout the winter
(an Ohio winter), and by spring I'll know more about their
durability.  The headers where coated inside and out, and new
headers have a lifetime guaranty against rust holes (they weld-up
and recoat).  The side pipes where only coated on the outside and
have no guaranty. Oh yeah... they also sent me a free hat that
ALMOST justifies the price. Come to think of it, a month or two
ago they also sent me a thank you card. Nice touch.

                                       John S Gwynne
                                          Gwynne.1@osu.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
               T h e   O h i o - S t a t e   U n i v e r s i t y
    ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA
                Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: John S Gwynne 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 13:43:32 1993
Subject: Very outdated thinking by cam companies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6700
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I have access to some very neat engine simulation/tuning software.
-> The software wants complete cam profile data - tappet lift for every
-> degree of crankshaft rotation.  The problem?  The camshaft companies
-> I have spoken with refuse to release complete cam profile data.  They
-> will only give you tiny bits of information.  Close, but not close
-> enough.

 That's because most of the cam companies don't *have* any information
to give you.  An average company has a dozen-odd different profiles they
grind on various lobe centers.  Some companies merely use Cam Doctor and
copy other companies' profiles.  Plus, the relationship between the
master lobe and the finished cam depends on several things, including
the size of the wheel used to grind the cam.  Diameter difference
between a new and old wheel can generate a noticeably different profile
on the finished cam.

 For your program, you can take the given lift and duration specs and
figure up a simple harmonic profile (any good engineering or shop text).
This should be more than adequate for software purposes.

 For a given lifter size or roller size, you're quite limited as to what
you can do.  Most cam grinders are up against the wall on tappet
acceleration anyway, so differences between profiles tend not to be that
great for larger cams.  For small RV-type cams the major factor is cam
and lifter wear.  Sig Erson makes some RV-style lobes that really whack
the valve - harder than their racing profiles, even.


-> I gave Comp Cams a call and they said _No Way_.  They said it would
-> be like giving away the combination to the vault - they'd be handing

 Comp doesn't design all their cams.  Some of the profiles were done by
people no longer with the company, others were done by other cam
companies under contract.  The Memphis cam grinders are an inbred bunch,
and the links between the old Cam Dynamics, Comp Cams, Ultradyne, Lazer,
Lunati, and Hypertech go 'way back.

 There are no miracles to be found in the cam industry.  Hell, I'm
grateful just to get duration @.050 and lobe centers - too many grinders
give only "advertised" duration and lift.  "Advertised" duration seems
to be based mainly on how lopey the idle is; its meaningless for
building engines.
                                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 13:49:39 1993
Subject: Re: Very outdated thinking by cam companies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6701
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> lift mean very little.  Two cams with identical duration and lift can
-> be totally different in profile, and there are hundreds of profiles
-> to choose from, not including custom grinds.

 Not that much different.  I've done my time with the degree wheel and
dial indicator, and every grinder is up against the same valve spring
and lifter diameter limits.


-> ...One cam company we used to deal with gave someone else the profile
-> to one of our custom ground cams.  Needless to say, we were quite
-> pissed since it was the result of hundreds of hours of dyno time and
-> thousands

 So?  Chances are very good your special profile didn't do anything
great for the other guy unless he was running almost exactly the same
engine you were.  And even then, different drivers, cars, or tracks can
require the torque peak moved up or down for the best times.

 This was really a custom profile?  Most cam companies consider
generating a new master cam to be a major operation.  Back when I was
running Pinto engines, I ran into that.  The Pinto's cam-on-rocker
layout requires a wildly asymmetric lobe to give a symmetric curve at
the valve.  The cheapest quote I got for a new master cam was several
times more money than I had in the entire car.


-> We don't do business with them anymore, and they don't understand
-> why.

 Most companies consider developing new masters as a capital
expenditure, because it takes LOTS of time.  Who paid for the new
profile?  If you weren't paying in the four figure range per copy, I'd
say the cam company was eating the costs, so the master belonged to
them.


-> Some tech notes.  It is surprising (well to me anyway) how much the
-> cam timing varies from one lobe to another on certain cams.  The cam

 It wouldn't be surprising if you'd stood in the shop looking over the
guy's shoulder while he was grinding the cams.  Bleedin' primitive, it
is.  Most of 'em are ground on hand operated machinery.  Many major
companies farm out orders for their popular grinds to bulk suppliers;
Baud alone knows where they came from or what quality control measures
were used.  It's not unusual to see chatter marks, different-sized
lobes, or even unground lobes on cams.


-> any non-custom cam has quite gentle lobe ramps, to protect the valve
-> train.

 For most engines, the problem is WEAR.  That's why Detroit finally went
back to roller cams.  Very strange things happen at the lobe/lifter
interface - a typical problem is pitting.  Used to, engineers thought it
was a form of spalling.  Current thinking is that the extreme pressure
over the cam nose causes the oil to eat the lifter.  That is, unless a
new theory is extant.  You want a badass profile?  How long does it need
to last?  Radical profiles don't last long.  Fortunately (for cam
grinders, anyway) motor longevity goes down at least as fast as cam
wear goes up.


-> valve train acceleration and forces.  It seems the cam companies have
-> some serious tools (simulators and other software possibly) to help
-> design aggressive ramps within the capabilities of your valve train.
-> With such cams, they are also very interested in wear and reliability

 That's another interesting point.  Almost every cam company claims
"computer designed profiles" and can belch BS about cam design at the
drop of a clue, but most of the places I've been to don't actually have
any software.  I know of one major cam grinder who uses a lathe and a
dial indicator to check cams; the only computer in the place did
inventory.  (circa 1986, anyway)
                                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 13:56:20 1993
Subject: Water Injection
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6702
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> My brother has a 350 he has just finished building which has
-> 305 heads (59cc) and 10:1 flat-top pistons (10:1 using 64cc heads).
...
-> The engine is the basic big cam, overly carbureted, chromed 350.

 Your compression would be anywhere from a true 9.5 to 11:1, depending
on actual head volume and deck clearance.  Is the engine pinging now?
Large cams tend to lower effective CR at lower RPMs.  If you have ping
you might want to delay the spark advance or retard the cam a bit before
playing with water injection or other doodads.


 My brother has a 350 that used to be in his '52 pickup.  It has "11:1"
domed pistons and 283 heads on it, CR somewhere between 11 and 12:1,
with an Offy Dual Port, Carter 625, HEI, and a Chevrolet 327/350HP
hydraulic cam.  Though Car Crap and the like would have you believe the
compression would have you driving over your own crankshaft in short
order, the engine doesn't ping a bit.
                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 14:02:09 1993
Subject: Re: Very outdated thinking by cam companies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6703
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


The reason they are so secretive is that it is quite difficult to get a good
cam profile by measuring it.  Remember, we're talking thousandths of inches
here.  Secondly, there are at least a half dozen ways to define cam lift.
The exact definition is up to the company who makes it.  Therefore, even if
they did tell you, the odds that it would fit your software are fairly slim.
I'm afraid you're somewhat SOL.

Chris

----------
Posted by: emory!leland.stanford.edu!rieflin (Christopher Marco Rieflin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 14:06:36 1993
Subject: MIPS for engine control
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6704
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


A couple of fat documents I have from MIPS Technology state that they have
won a major automaker as a client for R4000-based ECUs.  It is all rather
hush-hush with MIPS, and has been for a while.

If I remember correctly, GM is Motorolla-based, and plans to be so for a 
while.  Don't know about Ford and Chrysler.  

Anybody got any idea who will be annoucing the use of MIPS?  Development has
been going on for more than a year, and the doc I have says an annoucement
will be coming "soon".

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 14:13:35 1993
Subject: "Sonic Fuel Injection" System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6705
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 There's an article in this month's Design News about a "fuel injection"
unit, which looks to me more like a variable-venturi carb. It's called 
the Kendig Sonic Fuel Injection system by its inventors (W. Kendig and
M. Pinsker, at Zero Tolerance Inc.). The throttling is done by two
"sonic air valves", odd-shaped throttle plates which pivot away from a
center airfoil. The airfoil and valves form a region of restricted 
cross-section which allegedly causes the air to reach "sonic velocity".
(Heh.) The discharge ports for the fuel are within the airfoil body
at the point of maximum surface velocity. This is supposed to make the
atomization most efficient.

 The fuel is metered by regulating the flow inside the fuel passageway.
A ball valve is controlled by a cam follower arrangement, the cam being
rotated by the position of air flaps upstream of the throttle plates. 
The air flaps are indicators of airflow. The company cuts standard and
custom cam profiles to provide tailored mixture vs. airflow functions.
The article states that this device is intended for performance 
applications, and will flow 1000CFM (at an unspecified pressure drop).
The inventors claim that mixture remains within 0.1% across the throttle
range. Apparently there is no power enrichment; this device seems to
be simply aimed at the performance aftermarket. I bet that anybody
into mechanical tinkering could add a second linkage to derive the 
difference between demand and flow to create some degree of additional
enrichment. The carb mechanism appears to be pretty simple, the only
moving parts being the throttles, the venturis and the regulator
assembly. There does not appear to be much casting at all; the prototype
shown (no mention whether or when this unit will be in production)
appears to be entirely of drilled billet construction. The article
states that there are 105 components, and by eyeball about 50 of those
appear to be screws.

 There is no fuel reservoir, no float valve etc.; the fuel enters an 
internal rail directly from the pressure regulator. The throttle plates
control engine vacuum, and the venturi/air flaps meter fuel proportional
to airflow. Idle is not controlled by a separate circuit, but by the 
throttle stop position. The internal fuel pressure is less than 6PSI,
rendering this unit compatible with normal carburetor fuel delivery
systems. Pressure-controlled venturi fuel injection would address some
of the drawbacks found in carbs - fuel slosh primarily, poor low-speed
metering for another.

 Looking at this description I can see a few areas for improvement. The
dead-end pressure regulator and ball valve will be inclined to develop
some through-leakage as they wear or pick up particulate contamination.
There is no provision for a fuel return line from the internal rail. I
would add a small orificed return port and fitting. The lack of a
separate idle circuit renders the mixture sensitive to initial position
and profile of the fuel cam and to wear as well. I would prefer to see
an idle bypass circuit with a screw adjustment for fuel flow. As I
mentioned, this device provides for a single mixture curve dependent only
on airflow. A second power enrichment circuit would really help to make
this design streetable (i.e. run lean at cruise, rich at accelerate for
the same airflow).

 The device looks like it would be within the capabilities of a serious
hobbyist to construct. The most demanding feature is the curved throttle
housing section; the plates are not butterflies but curved inverted "L"
shapes which swing out from the center airfoil. Airflow around the back
side is suppressed by the fit between these throttle valves and the
housing and by a seal wiper, so some skill is required in forming.
This particular piece might be best formed by backyard casting than from
billet. The form is a simple radius and the arc is about 45 degrees; a
short section of appropriate diameter SS tubing and plate could be MIG'd
together readily to form the throttle valves, and the valves or mockups
used to form the critical mold dimensions. Everything else looks like
it could be done with a drill press, a die grinder and hardware store
parts. If you can scrounge an old Predator or "Kendig Carburetor", you
may be able to retrofit it for regulated fuel flow instead of bowl/jet
fuel management, deriving the same benefits with less work.
 
 If your local school or company library carries Design News, look for the
October 4, 1993 issue; the pictures and text are pretty good although the
writer is obviously not a motorhead. It's on page 177. 

 The contact in the article is

 Mike Pinsker, VP
 Zero Tolerance Inc.
 1369 Home Ave.
 Fortuna, CA 95540
 (707) 725-5124

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 14:28:07 1993
Subject: Demo software for Ignition system available.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6706
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

If you read my article in PE on "Digital Distributorless Ignition Systems" you
can now play with the PC software that controls the ignition system.  It is a 
demo version that has no serial I/O, but it will show you how simple it is to 
program an advance curve and reprogram the ignition controller.  READ THE 
README FILE!  It has some quick-and-dirty instructions on how to use the 
software with and without a mouse.

Anonymous FTP to spbted.gatech.edu.  This will put you in the /incoming 
directory.  Backup to the root and go into /ign/exe.  The file is IGN.ZIP.  It
contains the executable, the README, and three advance curves.  Note that 
IGN.ADV is a special file that contains the ignition curve when you exit so it
can be restored when you return.

John, this is a new version of the code.  The version you played with was 
compiled with the 80386+80387 switches on.  That code won't run on machines
with less than that.  The new code should run on 8088 and up and no 
coprocessor is needed.

-tim drury




----------
Posted by: emory!spbted.gatech.edu!tim.drury
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 14:33:09 1993
Subject: High RPM questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6707
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Hello all.  I have a few questions about getting my SB Chevy to rev
-> better in the 5000+ RPM range.  I have some pretty good ideas where
....
-> 114 lobe centers

 That's your problem.  Your other parts are all good.  114 lobe centers
are way, way out of line - about the only thing that uses that width are
cripple cams for computerized cars.  Give the cam the floatation test
and replace it with something, oh, 220 to 230 degrees at .050 on a 109
or 110 lobe center and you should see a Jeyll-and-Hyde change while
keeping a reasonable idle and mileage.
           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 14:37:49 1993
Subject: Dobbertin's Orbiter is alive.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6708
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

For those who care, I was watching the news the other night and they had a clip  
on Rick Dobbertin's Orbiter vehicle. It was a milk truck tanker converted into  
a land/sea vehicle. They showed him roaming around in some lake. The thing  
didn't appear to steer well from what I could see. I guess he plans on taking  
an around the world trip in this thing. Thanks, but I'll take the Love Boat. 


--
**********************************************************
Scott Colbath
Stratus Computer
Phoenix, Az.  (602)852-3106
Internet:scott_colbath@az.stratus.com
**********************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!scottsdale!scol (Scott Colbath)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 15:35:38 1993
Subject: Misc Hi-po items for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6709
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


For those interested in reliable high horsepower performance I have the
following equipment for sale.

355 Cubic Inch Small Block Chevy Engine - completely balanced and blueprinted;
assembled and ready to drop in or as a kit. The identical sister to this motor
was rated at 478 horsepower @ 7200 rpm with a stock 750 Holley.

      - 4-bolt main block deburred, holes chamfered, align bored, decked and
        checked for square.
      - BRC 4340 non twist crank, chamfered and clearanced with balanced
        and degreed harmonic balancer.
      - Childs and Albert 4340 connecting rods with 210,000 psi rod bolts.
      - Diamond pistons .030 oversize with Moly rings and tool steel pins.
      - Vandervel Rod, Main and Cam bearings.
      - Short Block assembly Balanced, Clearanced and Blue Printed.
      - High Volume Melling oil pump.
      - Cloyes True Roller double roller timing chain.
      - Ultradyne Tight Lash Mechanical Cam RPM range 3300-7500.
      - 4340 Push Rods.
      - Bow Tie angle plug heads, screw in studs, guide plates, stainless
        steel valves, Crane roller rockers and springs, retainers and keepers
        matched for cam. These heads have been ported, flowed and polished.
        Aluminum valve covers with special baffled breathers and filters.
      - Victor Jr. Bow Tie intake manifold. ported and matched to heads.
      - All steel parts magnuflux checked and / or x-ray inspected.
      - All aluminum parts die penetrant and / or x-ray inspected for defects.
      - Recurved GM HEI ignition.
      - Carter High Output fuel pump.
      - Weind Aluminum water pump.
      - Stock or Circle Track baffled oil pan installed.

I am asking $4800.00 for the above engine completely assembled ready to drop
carburetor, starter and exhaust on, or $4500.00 and you assemble.

I also have a 750 CFM Holley Dual inlet Double Pump carburetor reworked by
BO-LAWS for sale. List was $550.00 will sell for $300.00 or $200.00 with above
engine. Carburetor can not be sold until engine is sold.

Also have one Sportsman Circle Track car for sale. 75 Firebird subframe, 2X3
rear frame section. Wilwood calipers, carrera shocks, JAZ Fuel cell, Aluminum
Seat with padding, RJS 5 point belt system, Has 92 Firebird all aluminum Body
currently installed with aluminum interior similar to Five Star and A.R.P.
This body has very few minor battle scars and the car has never been wrecked.
It is currently has rear leaf springs installed but was built for a 3 point
rear end set-up. Extra parts included are: Howe Aluminum Radiator and
Shoenfeld under chassis Headers. Asking $2600.00 for everything ready to drop
motor and transmission in and go racing. Will sell car and above engine
complete for $7000.00.

For more information contact: email xgg3511@dcmdc.dla.mil

616-384-3927 7:00 A.M. to 3:00 P.M. or 616-694-5124 after 5:00

Roger Hensley
Patriot Motorsports
1099 N. 16th St.
Otsego, Michigan 49078-9733

----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 15:41:06 1993
Subject: Sierra antifreeze?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6710
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Lately I've been seeing a lot of commercials for Sierra brand
antifreeze.  The commercials claim that it's non-toxic, which means it
isn't based on ethylene glycol.  Does anyone have any experience with
this stuff?  What is Sierra made of?

 -- Chuck Fry  Chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov

----------
Posted by: Chuck Fry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 15:46:11 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6711
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: Q-Jet problem 851
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: 
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1993 07:07:54 GMT
Lines: 34

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>I fixed the WOT bog on one of my Q-Jet equipped cars by getting the timing
>right.  I found out that I had been running way too advanced.  I set the
>initial timing back from about 20 to 12.  Now I have no WOT bog.

Well, I'm running about 10 right now (with the crappy gas that I usually buy!
I'm waiting on the new heads before I start getting the 93 octane. :-)  Stock
is supposed to be 8, but it just has no throttle response set like that.

>My other Q-Jet equipped car has a similar problem on the partial throttle 1-2
>and 2-3 upshifts just like you described.  It also does the same thing really
>bad right after a sharp right hand turn.  It must have something to do with
>the fuel level in the bowl.  I was just rechecking the timing and everything

Well, I did replace the float in it, and I THOUGHT that I got it set right,
but I have been wrong before.  The old float.. well.... sank.  You know
something is wrong when you go to start your car and you see gas shooting
up the air-horn!  Not good.

>I'm running way too lean (need bigger jets), and I'm getting worse mileage
>because I have to put too much throttle into my everyday driving just to make
>up for the lean-ness caused lack of power?  When I floor it and the

Well, I would check the float height, or pull it and take it back and have
them check the float height so you don't void your warantee.  If it has the
warantee, I would just take it back and let them figure out the problem.
Talk to ya later.

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 15:51:42 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6712
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

To: hotrod@dixie.com
Subject: Re: 84 GTI engine stuff
Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
In-Reply-To: <8q7z8n#@dixie.com>
Organization: Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
Cc: 

I have much of the same for sale always...

If you get a buyer tell me.
Haven't had much luck over the net liquidating my junk.

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!sesquive (Steven H.  Esquivel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 15:56:21 1993
Subject: story
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6713
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

john-

your story has brought tears to my eyes. ;)

i always love to hear about someone else who can appreciate the best thing
going.

like the man says: sure they made camaros after 73, but who cares!

-tom

----------
Posted by: emory!RIGEL.TAMU.EDU!TEB0958
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 16:00:31 1993
Subject: Fuel-Injecting an old car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6714
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a '71 Mercedes-Benz 250 with the stock 2.8L SOHC engine which is
fitted with dual Zenith INAT carburators that I am really getting tired of.
I would like to upgrade this car to computer controlled port style fuel
injection.  Does anyone have any suggestions as to where to find the
necessary parts?  I suspect that I will have to somehow fabricate the
necessary intake manifold.  Where would be the best place to start on that?
Where could I obtain a throttle body and air sensor assembly?  How about a
controller?

>From what I understand, it is possible to drill and tap a carburetor-type
manifold and buy throttle body assemblies, provided there are no available
aftermarket parts.  A controller I could probably put together and program
myself, given sufficient free time.

My ultimate objective is for this to be my daily driver and for my current
daily driver (a '78 280Z) to become my project car, but the relative states
of the cars prevent that.  I also plan to upgrade the ignition system at
some point.

Thanks in advance.

Karl Ramm   IZCC#91  '78 Datusn 280Z (daily beater) 
Freelance Hacker                       '71 Mercedes 250 (project car)

----------
Posted by: Karl Ramm 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 16:06:01 1993
Subject: engine number...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6715
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hey All;

	My brother just showed up from Arizona with what looks like a 68
SS-396 Chevelle. It currantly has a 454 in it, and supposedly the
original engine in the trunk (in pieces). So, we're trying to figure out
if it is in fact the original or not. To that end, here are the numbers
we found on the block. Can anyone ID them for us??

	engine ID# T1028TKX (on pad on front of engine)
	casting #  3888280 or 3999290 (hard to tell which) rear of
					engine
	another number on rear of engine - E28*71
	another number on rear of engine - GM T7
-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| "Theater is Life,                           Gary L. Berry |
|  Film is Art,                                glb@s1.gov   |
|  Television is Furniture"                                 |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Gary L. Berry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 16:11:55 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6716
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: My car
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1993 11:08:36 GMT
Lines: 56

In case anyone is interested, this is what my car consists of right now:

'79 Buick Regal, maroon paint, body kinda rough.  Rust spots around rear
wheel wells.  This car used to have a Buick 231 V6 (non-turbo).  The car
has 135,000 miles on it, and the new engine has 68,000.

Engine: 350 Chevy, 4-bolt mains (came out of a '78 Olds 98, but it IS the
Chebbie engine.  4 bbl Quadrajet.  Everything on the engine is stock except
the air cleaner (360 deg. filter) and Accell cap, rotor, plugs and wires.

Coolant: New water pump (stock one) with a 3 row radiator out of a Caddy.

Fuel: New fuel pump (stock) going through 3/8" line into the stock filter
in the Q-jet.  I am planning on adding an in-line filter this weekend,
and pulling the stock one out.

Exhaust:  Cyclone headers going to dual "turbo" mufflers and out the sides,
running through 3" collectors and 2 1/2" pipe.

Transmission:  Freshly rebuilt TH350 out of a '76 Camaro, with "red" clutches,
and B&M shift kit.  I plan on adding a B&M "Mega-shifter".

Rear-end: Posi out of '79 Cutlass with 2.41 gears.  Just the 7.5" ring gear.
I am planning on changing to a 8.5" one out of a wagon with 3.08 gears.

Tires: Front 205-70R14s, Back 225-70R14.  I am planning on changing to
15" rims, and 205-60r15s on front, and 255-60r15s on back.

Interior: Basically stock, in need of guages.  I'm kinda partial to the
Auto-Meter 2" triple gauge set.  Pioneer stereo, Boston Acoustics Seperates,
Bel remote mount radar detector.  I'm planning on taking out the front
bench seat and replacing it with buckets out of a newer Camaro or Beretta.

Right now the best time at the track is: 15.65 @ 90.86 MPH.  VERY traction
limited.  Tons of low end power, but the top end is lacking.  I haven't been
up to the track since the new tranny (w/ shift kit) and cap & rotor were put
on.

Cost so far: Car:        $175
             Engine:     $300
             Tranny:     $225
             Radiator:   $20
             Misc:       $200
             Total:------$1100

List of additions in the order that I will probably do them:
Fuel filter, guages, rims & tires, body work, rear-end, heads & camshaft,
seats, shifter.

Any ideas, suggestions, comments?  I would love to hear the details about
anyone elses vehicles too.  Talk to ya later.
--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 16:18:23 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-39*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6717
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, my favorite bartender, and the nice folks at TNN.  PLEASE 
confirm dates and times with your local listings before setting your 
VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

HYDROPLANE RACING, SAN DIEGO (T)      10/22    2:30-3:30PM      ESPN
Motoworld                             10/22    6:00-6:30PM      ESPN
Harley-Davidson 90th Birthday Party(T)10/22    10:00-10:35PM    SHO
IMSA, EXXON SUPREME SERIES,PHOENIX (T)10/23    12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Glory Days                            10/23    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
NASCAR Shop Talk w/Eli Gold           10/23    6:30-7:00AM      ESPN
World Of Speed&Beauty(Guyana road race10/23    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (selling used cars)10/23    10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Sci. & Tech. (Natural gas race car?)  10/23    11:00-11:30AM    CNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               10/23    11:00-11:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              10/23    1:00-1:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      10/23    1:30-2:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, ROCKINGHAM (L)              10/23    2:00-4:30PM      TNN
Winners (Terry Labonte)               10/23    4:30-5:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek                             10/23    5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
FORMULA 1, SUZUKA, JAPAN (L)          10/23  11:50PM-2:00AM     TSN [1]
IHRA, N. AMERICAN NATIONALS, EPPING(T)10/24    12:00-1:00AM     ESPN
INDY LIGHTS, NAZARETH (T)             10/24    1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
MotorWeek                             10/24    2:00-2:30AM      WGN
SpeedWeek                             10/24    2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
FORMULA 1, SUZUKA, JAPAN (SD)         10/24    8:00-9:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               10/24    9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              10/24    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Terry Labonte)               10/24    10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              10/24    10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      10/24    11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           10/24   11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
World Of Speed&Beauty(Guyana road race10/24    12:00-12:30PM    TNN
WINSTON CUP, ROCKINGHAM (L)           10/24    12:30-5:00PM     TNN
Sci. & Tech. (Natural gas race car?)  10/24    12:30-1:00PM     CNN
Amazing Games (lawn mower racing??)   10/24    3:00-4:00PM      ESPN
NHRA, CRAFTSMAN NATIONALS, TOPEKA (T) 10/24    5:00-6:00PM      HTS*
Shadetree Mechanic (selling used cars)10/24    5:30-6:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update w/Pat Patterson (L)    10/24    6:00-6:05PM      TNN
NHRA MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T) 10/24    6:05-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              10/24    7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      10/24    8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           10/24    8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Winners (Terry Labonte)               10/24    9:00-9:30PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (selling used cars)10/24    10:30-11:00PM    TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      10/24    11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              10/24   11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/24   11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               10/25    12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed&Beauty(Guyana road race10/25    12:30-1:00AM     TNN
NHRA, NATIONALS, DALLAS (T)           10/25    3:00-4:00AM      ESPN
IMSA, EXXON SUPREME, PHOENIX (T)      10/25    4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/26    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Harley-Davidson 90th Birthday Party(T)10/26    10:30-11:00PM    SHO
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/27    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IHRA, PRESIDENT'S CUP, BUDD'S CREEK(T)10/27    2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             10/27    11:00-11:30PM    ESPN
SODA, OFF-ROAD RACING, CRANDON (T)    10/28    12:00-1:00AM     ESPN
Cycle World                           10/28    12:00-1:00AM     HTS*
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, NAZARETH (T)         10/28    1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/28    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IHRA, FALL NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)     10/28    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
FORMULA 1, SUZUKA, JAPAN (T)          10/28    3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/28    3:30-4:00AM      MTV
Cycle World                           10/28    1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     10/28    2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
MotorWeek                             10/28    8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           10/28    8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     10/28    9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (L)    10/28   11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
SAAB PRO, LEXINGTON (T)               10/29    12:00-12:30AM    ESPN
AMA, GRAND NATIONAL, SPRINGFIELD (T)  10/29    12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/29    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             10/29    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
IHBA DRAG BOATS, PHOENIX (T)          10/30    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            10/30    3:30-5:00PM      TNN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS----------

WINSTON CUP, PHOENIX (L)              10/31    2:00-5:30PM      TNN
Thunder At The Summit ('93 NHRA season10/31    7:00-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA WINSTON FINALS, POMONA (L)       10/31    7:30-8:30PM      TNN
IHRA, FALL NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)     11/02    8:00PM           ESPN
NASCAR SPORTSMAN, NASHVILLE (T)       11/02    9:00PM           ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, DALLAS (T)             11/03    10:30PM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, ADELAIDE, OZ (L)           11/06    10:20PM          TSN [1]
FORMULA 1, ADELAIDE, OZ (T)           11/07    8:00-10:00AM     ESPN
BUSCH GN, HICKORY (?)                 11/07    TBA              TBA
ARCA, ATLANTA (T)                     11/14    12:00AM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, HOOTERS 500, ATLANTA (L) 11/14    12:30PM          ESPN
Hydroplane Racing, Pearl Harbor (T)   11/21    1:00-2:00PM      ESPN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out RDS which broadcasts each race live. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim 
Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     ASN                Arizona                         Ben Loosli
     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
     PSN                Portland                       Mike Butts
  SportsChannel      San Francisco                     Chuck Fry
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public and commercial TV stations throughout
N. America.

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 17:20:22 1993
Subject: Misc race junk for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6718
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	Hope theres no objection to posting this here.

	Miscellaneous mostly USED Hi-Po parts - small chevy stuff unless
	stated otherwise
	USED  good condition unless stated otherwise

	Moroso 8 qt straight sump pan and pump with pickup
	Manley 3/8 .100 oversize pushrods 
	600 holley double pump with moroso reuseable gaskets 
	750 holley double pump - needs rebuild
	Fram Hi Po canister type Fuel Filter 
	Stock 400 chev used rods - pistons on still but junk
	400 chev balancer stock needs seal saver
	2 - 350 balancers stock
	4 stock 350 rods. balance pads heavily ground down
	moroso cast alum valve covers black wrinkle finish
	K&N Substack
	Comp Cams 306 solid cam 
	Comp Cams 292 hyd cam with crane hi rev lifters and springs
	Comp Cams magnum roller tip rockers 3/8 stud 1.52 ratio
	Victor Junior - not hacked
	Crower FI manifold 2.5 inch stacks crower 21 nozzle for 350 gas
	1 inch 4 hole metal carb spacer - sq flange
	1 inch open plenum composite carb spacer sq flange
	1 inch moroso 4 hole bakelite carb spacer
	Moroso Air pan kit for single 4 bbl - new
	Engine oil cooler kit - universal style - new
	Set TRW L2442 F 030 pistons for 351 Ford - new
	1 pr new fiberglass doors (race glass) 70-81 firebird (camaro?)
	Trunk deck - new race glass - 70-81 firebird/camaro
	Cast Finned aluminum rear cover for Dana 44 - new
	Edelbrock Street tunnel ram
	10" 3600 stall convertor for TH350/400 
	Hurst Comp Plus shifter - body only
	Chevy Points type Distributor w/curve kit 
	MSD-6 electronic ignition - as is, condition unknown
	BlackJack headers: See a catalog for details on these. all new
		#3016 65-70 impala small block
		#5622 78-79 351M/400 Ford 4x4
		#3701 CJ Jeep w/amc v8, under chassis

Misc crud:
	Patch Panels:	New
		78-89 Suburban/Blazer/Truck Wheel house opening L & R
		78-89 Suburban/Blazer/Truck Rear corner L & R
		76-89 Chevy Van - Sliding door lower edge
		AM-FM Mono radio out of 78 chevy van
		Tow receiver class 3 for 76-94 chevy van - used
		Thule #307 roof rack with locks NO OTHER acessories - new
			(48 inch rack with clamps for cars with gutters)

	All this stuff can go UPS. The doors, patch panels and headers
	may provide me some packaging problems (if I have boxes for 
	those things they are really beat up.
	If you're interested in any of it, send offers or ask prices.


Derek J. Pietro
Picker International
derekp@stdavids.picker.com

----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 22 17:27:03 1993
Subject: "Sonic Fuel Injection" System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6719
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> There's an article in this month's Design News about a "fuel
-> injection" unit, which looks to me more like a variable-venturi carb.
-> It's called the Kendig Sonic Fuel Injection system by its inventors
-> (W. Kendig and

 My Design News is still in one of the big postal baskets (being away
for two weeks left me with a WAD of mail).  The Kendig carb is at least
20 years old.  They sold it off and it became the Pretador.  Now it
appears to be back out under its original name.  I have some stuff on
the original Kendig in one of my notebooks; when I get a chance I'll
compare it to the artiucle in Design News and see how much is changed.
                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct 23 10:22:15 1993
Subject: Re: engine number...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6720
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Hey All;
>
>	My brother just showed up from Arizona with what looks like a 68
>SS-396 Chevelle. It currantly has a 454 in it, and supposedly the
>original engine in the trunk (in pieces). So, we're trying to figure out
>if it is in fact the original or not. To that end, here are the numbers
>we found on the block. Can anyone ID them for us??
>
>	engine ID# T1028TKX (on pad on front of engine)
>	casting #  3888280 or 3999290 (hard to tell which) rear of
>					engine
>	another number on rear of engine - E28*71
>	another number on rear of engine - GM T7

Looks like he '72 402 instead.  The casting date E28*71 is April 28,71.
The engine ID says it was machined 0n 10/28 and the three digit ID 
code puts it at least 70. All car ID's start with a C-- and I beleive
trucks start with the T. Anybody back me up on this.
And finally I have a casting number 3999290 listed as a 1972 402
in my Camaro reference but that block could have been used in other
applications.


>Posted by: Gary L. Berry 
> 


   Bill Drake   -   bill@ecn.purdue.edu

   47 Ford Coupe////454/AT/3:00//// the "Fat Rat"
   69 Camaro convertible////327/AT/2:73
   73 Camaro LT

----------
Posted by: emory!ecn.purdue.edu!bill
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct 23 11:39:01 1993
Subject: Re: MIPS for engine control
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6721
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>If I remember correctly, GM is Motorolla-based, and plans to be so for a 
>while.  Don't know about Ford and Chrysler.  

  To make a long story short, we had some Motorola mucky-mucks come in
and give us some marketing spiel on their new RISC microprocessor
line, the PowerPC (MPC601, etc.) architected in cahoots with IBM and
Apple.

  All us embedded systems people sat there with bored looks on our faces
as Joe "I'm no marketeer, I'm an engineer just like you" Motorola told
us how this new processor would levitate over water and need no programming
(telepathic instruction fetch! ;) .

  We mentioned the fact that this had little to do with our products,
and he let on that they're releasing a MPC301 specifically for embedded
systems applications.  The core ALU for this number is apparently straight
from a chip Motorola developed along with Ford.  He even used the "Engine
Emissions Control" acronym.

  Just another data point...

  Ron "Only One Source For Development Tools?!" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct 23 12:03:41 1993
Subject: Re: Misc race junk for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6722
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 93 21:11:49 GMT

Could you tell me exactly where you are located? I would like to know for
shipping costs.

----------
Posted by: emory!liposun.lbl.gov!ikami (Craig Ikami)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct 23 12:07:58 1993
Subject: FOR SALE 32 Ford 5 window coupe
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6723
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

FOR SALE 
1932 Ford 5 window coupe


chopped and channeled all steel body (black)
fiberglass grill shell
louvered trunk lid
filled roof and shaved door handles and rain gutters
39 Ford tail lights
9 inch Ford rear end
coil springs and shocks in back
power brakes  drum brakes all around
all chrome dropped I-beam axle and chrome hairpin radius rods
mono leaf adjustable front spring
four new tires mounted on American 200S mags 15 x 6 fronts  15 x 10 rears
electric radiator fan
interior is brown     bench seat
blaupunkt stereo
full set of gauges


MOTOR

1972 Chevy 350 motor   runs cool
polish Weiand 6-71 blower 6% underdriven
pair of 600 Holleys
Mallory electric fuel pump and regulator
BDS scoop with slots cut on top
Mallory unilite distributor with MSD box
roller rockers
polished valve covers
chrome oil and trans pan
Sanderson headers
350 turbo with trans cooler
B & M Quicksilver shifter


seats should be moved back against body
windshield frame has much rust
needs speedometer cable
car is very fast

Asking $16.500 open to offers

Benny (510) 482-5518 Leave message

----------
Posted by: craig ikami 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Oct 23 12:13:14 1993
Subject: Re: HELLO!!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6724
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


    I dont understand where this news group went either.  Ever since the
news group has dwindled to nothing.  I wish people would keep on 
posting here.

                                        John-
                                               72 Camaro
                                               71 MG Midget
                                               77 BMW 530i
                                               79 Datsun 310(shit box)

[The problem was a constipation somewhere in the system after traffic
left Dixie.  Appears to be working again now.  Don'tcha just love internet
mail? :-0 JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v132r7gr (CHICKEN HEART)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 24 16:44:00 1993
Subject: YADSS (tyet another dream-shop story...)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6725
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Well, a little behind schedule for my goal of beating the winter here in
the frozen north but the first pieces of steel for my dream-shop (41W X 68L 
X 16H quonset barn) went together today...  Time for a Bud Dry and a movie
tonight...

Walt K.
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 24 16:54:30 1993
Subject: Re: Misc race junk for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6726
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Oct 22, 17:15, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Misc race junk for sale
> 	Set TRW L2442 F 030 pistons for 351 Ford - new
> 	BlackJack headers: See a catalog for details on these. all new
> 		#5622 78-79 351M/400 Ford 4x4

How much for the pistons and headers?

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 24 17:06:00 1993
Subject: Specs on Subaru 3.3 turbo?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6727
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hello,

I am trying to find horsepower and torque data on the turbo version of
Subaru!s 3.3 liter engine.  This engine is available in Japan and
Australia.  I really want to know the peak torque and at what rpm.

Also, any idea how one could go about getting one of these engines, for
off road use only that is.

Thanks for your help,
-shane

-------------------------------------------------------------
Shane Trent        Diamond Deposition and Analysis Laboratory
NCSU Box 7919                  Internet: sdtrent@mte.ncsu.edu
1001 Capability Drive                Voice:    (919) 515-7083
Raleigh, NC  27695-7919              Fax:      (919) 515-3419
-------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mat.mte.ncsu.edu!sdtrent (Shane Trent)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 24 20:39:25 1993
Subject: YADSS (tyet another dream-shop story...)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6728
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> the frozen north but the first pieces of steel for my dream-shop (41W
-> X 68L X 16H quonset barn) went together today...  Time for a Bud Dry
-> and a movie tonight...

 Yee-HAH!  Beats the snot out of a wet gravel driveway, eh?

 With that much space, you have room for a dozen or so garage queens.
                                                                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 25 14:56:58 1993
Subject: Miracle un-gasket spooge?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6729
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	A month or two ago, I posted here about rebuilding my little
motorcycle that had the holed piston.  The rebuild is proceeding apace, and
I removed a small mountain of slag from the cases.  The bottom end is in
perfect shape (crankshaft turns so smooooothly), and all the clearances are
within manufacturing tolerances, so I went ahead.

	At any rate, the bottom end is back together and sitting in the frame,
and I'm trying to clean up the cylinder and head for new gaskets.  Scotchbrite
and elbow grease just isn't doing the job.

	What do you folks use to soften up remnant head and base gasket crap
that is sticking to parts so that you can remove it quickly?  This is really
holding me up right now, and I want to get this thing together before the
snow flies!

	Another question:  I bought a two-smoke recently that's been locked
up tight for over a decade.  I want to fill the cylinders and crankcase with
penetrating oil.  Would you recommend Liquid Wrench, Marvel Mystery Oil, or
ATF?  The bike is locked up from sitting for so long--it was running when it
was parked (so I'm told).

	Please forgive me for asking these here, but the S/N on the more
relevant groups is pitiful, and I actually get the feeling that you guys
know what you're talking about instead of just guessing.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna  DoD# 114  KotSTA   Ed Green         1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          Fan Club #004    1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
ennishi no opinion dewa arimasen.                  1973 RD350A
I still need a racebike.              I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

[The most wonderful stuff I've ever seen for busting rust is called
"Rust Buster MO-44" made by Sealed Unit Parts Company.  This is a
water-thin, non-oily, foul smelling liquid that literally melts rust.
I've never seen it in car parts stores.  Sealed Unit makes refrigeration
parts.  The stuff was developed to aid refrigeration repair when the
tech has to remove a rusty fan from a rusty motor shaft.  I buy mine by
the 12 bottle case from my local refrigeration supply company.  They
usually also sell individual bottles off a display.  Inexpensive to boot.

For cleaning metal down to the shine, hard to beat the cresyllic
acid-based carburator cleaner such as is sold in dip buckets by
Berryman.  You'll know you have the right stuff because it reeks of
creosote.  Burns skin(slowly), swells rubber but cleans EVERYTHING off
metal including the baked-on carbon on piston crowns.  Soak your head
(!) in that stuff overnight and everything including the stuck gaskets
will wash off with a hose.  One caution: Make sure any light alloy is
fully immersed.  I've had the stuff etch aluminum at the liquid line if
partially exposed.  Another caution: If you get it on your skin, you
WILL smell like a telephone pole for a week!  One of the few things in
my shop I actually wear neoprene gloves for, just to avoid the odor.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 25 15:03:01 1993
Subject: Re: Very outdated thinking by cam companies 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6730
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Fri, 22 Oct 93 13:33 EDT
> From:  emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
> 
>-> From: Dan
>
>-> lift mean very little.  Two cams with identical duration and lift can
>-> be totally different in profile, and there are hundreds of profiles
>-> to choose from, not including custom grinds.

> Not that much different.  I've done my time with the degree wheel and
>dial indicator, and every grinder is up against the same valve spring
>and lifter diameter limits.

OK...Perhaps I should rephrase that.  They give very different results
in the engine.  We recently rebuilt a Super Modified big block Chevy,
and threw in a new cam that was supposed to be identical to the old one.
The engine was down 75 HP (725 vs. 800 HP).  Couldn't figure it out
until we "doctored" the cam.  Same lift, same duration, different lobe
profile.

>-> ...One cam company we used to deal with gave someone else the profile
>-> to one of our custom ground cams.  Needless to say, we were quite
>-> pissed since it was the result of hundreds of hours of dyno time and
>-> thousands

> So?  Chances are very good your special profile didn't do anything
>great for the other guy unless he was running almost exactly the same
>engine you were.  And even then, different drivers, cars, or tracks can
>require the torque peak moved up or down for the best times.

In this case, it was a competitor engine builder, building a similar
engine for the same racing class where horsepower was everything.

> This was really a custom profile?  Most cam companies consider
>generating a new master cam to be a major operation.  Back when I was
>running Pinto engines, I ran into that.  The Pinto's cam-on-rocker
>layout requires a wildly asymmetric lobe to give a symmetric curve at
>the valve.  The cheapest quote I got for a new master cam was several
>times more money than I had in the entire car.

> Most companies consider developing new masters as a capital
>expenditure, because it takes LOTS of time.  Who paid for the new
>profile?  If you weren't paying in the four figure range per copy, I'd
>say the cam company was eating the costs, so the master belonged to
>them.

All I can do is describe the process.  My assumption was that they are
done on a CNC machine.  We either send them a profile print out from
the engine simulator, or talk to them on the phone and give them twenty
or so data points.  We sometimes discuss valve train forces, and from
the information they provide I made another assumption that they have
some kind of computer assistance.  The cam we get back is exactly what
we ask for, and the price was not unreasonable.  We also do stuff like
change the lobe or lobe timing on some cylinders due to the flow of
the intake manifold.  That does not seem to be a problem for the cam
manufacturer either.

> For most engines, the problem is WEAR.  That's why Detroit finally went
>back to roller cams.  Very strange things happen at the lobe/lifter
>interface - a typical problem is pitting.  Used to, engineers thought it
>was a form of spalling.  Current thinking is that the extreme pressure
>over the cam nose causes the oil to eat the lifter.  That is, unless a
>new theory is extant.  You want a badass profile?  How long does it need
>to last?  Radical profiles don't last long.  Fortunately (for cam
>grinders, anyway) motor longevity goes down at least as fast as cam
>wear goes up.

We are talking race only engines here that have these profiles.  The valve
train in our latest technology engines contains as much titanium and carbon
fiber that is available.  The valve springs go first, and are changed after
practice plus one race.  The next on the list is the roller lifter.  We
beat the needles right out of the roller.  They get checked after every
race and maybe last three.  The cams seem to last quite a while, of course
we swap them out due to profile changes before they usually get a chance
to wear out completely.  The middle of the ramp gets beat up first, the
nose looks OK.  We are running seat pressures around 230 lbs.

I don't know how they make 'em, but we get what we ask for.


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 25 17:25:36 1993
Subject: Re: Very outdated thinking by cam companies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6731
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-> 
-> The reason they are so secretive is that it is quite difficult to get a good
-> cam profile by measuring it.  Remember, we're talking thousandths of inches
-> here.  Secondly, there are at least a half dozen ways to define cam lift.
                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-> The exact definition is up to the company who makes it.  Therefore, even if
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-> they did tell you, the odds that it would fit your software are fairly slim.
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-> I'm afraid you're somewhat SOL.
-> 
-> Chris
-> 
-> ----------
-> Posted by: emory!leland.stanford.edu!rieflin (Christopher Marco Rieflin)
->  
-> 

I thought the requester simply wanted to know how large the lobe is
at each degree of cam rotation to use as input to his program.  Seems
to me that's a rather simple request.  There's nothing in there about
how the cam is installed (advanced/straight up/retarded) or about what
ratio the rocker arms might be.  I would suspect those parameters are
variables for his program also.

Secondly, regarding "handing over the key to the vault", I can't
imagine that a company capable of producing cams does not know how
to get that info from a competitor's cam by measurement.  I'm sure
that they perform precisely that measurement on their own cams
(at least I'd hope so) to determine whether or not it's correctly
made.

George Kulp

----------
Posted by: emory!VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 25 17:37:41 1993
Subject: Cleaning carbon and gaskets off of heads
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6732
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Before I put my 350 back together, I used a small wire wheel gizmo in a die
grinder to clean all the crap off of the face of the heads.  It has a 1/4"
mandrel and the medium coarseness wires come straight out of the end.  The
wires are ground into a ball shape.  The tool had stainless steel wires.  The
stainless steel wires were not as strong as the steel in the head and valve
faces, so I could grind away all the crap without scratching the heads at
all.  The carbon, rust, gasket material, and gas deposits came off in a flash
like powder.

I wouldn't try the stainless wire wheel on an aluminum head though -- it'd
probably tear the hell out of it.  They make wire wheels with brass wires
that might possibly do the trick.

My secret recipe to clean massive amounts of grease, baked on oil, and crud
off of engine blocks is this:

	Scrape off the big thick chunks off with an old butter knife.  Dip a
toothbrush in kerosene, and scrub on the grease.  Keep dipping it into fresh
kerosene and keep scrubbing until the whole block has been scrubbed and has a
thin film of kerosene on it.  Then spray "Simple Green" biodegradeable
detergent over everything and scrub it a little more.  Blast it with a hose
and everything comes out super spotlessly clean!  Dry it quickly because the
super-cleaned bare steel starts to rust immediately.  

	Before I paint the block, I give it another quick scrubdown with
Ivory dishwashing soap and dry it again.  It does a great job.  

	Ivory dishwashing soap (in the white bottle) does a great job of
cleaning oil and grease off of aluminum (and your hands).  Brake fluid does
too, but it's probably not too good for your skin.  The Ivory soap is
alkaline, so you can't leave it on the aluminum for too long without etching
it a little (hazing it).

	Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 25 17:49:36 1993
Subject: Urethane vs. Delrin bushings
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6733
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have an '89 Mustang that is my daily driver (and only car).  It sees
occasional abuse on road courses.  The front end is the weakest link at
the moment.

I'm planning to replace the front control arm bushings, and urethane was
my first choice.  But I'm being tempted by a new product from Global
West.  They now offer offset bushings that relocate the control arms
forward 3/8"... just enough to provide a degree or two of much needed
positive caster.  But they're made from Delrin, a hard plastic.

I figure urethane is a bit radical for the street already.  So what
would Delrin bushings be like on the street?  I'd like to know if that
would put me over the edge on streetability, since my wallet is in no
shape to buy a commute car at the moment.

Thanks.
 -- Chuck "feel pebbles in the road? how 'bout sand grains?" Fry

----------
Posted by: Chuck Fry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Oct 25 20:45:50 1993
Subject: Drag Racing Mailing List
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6734
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Sorry for the brief intrusion on this group...

I'm starting a new mailing list devoted to strip drag racing.
If interested, send email to me: hackney@compaq.com

This list will be moderated, and dedicated to legal (non-street)
drag racing topics, such as occur at NHRA/IHRA sponsored tracks and events. 
It will be open to all levels of experience, as the goal is to share
in the knowledge and thrill of drag racing.

----------
Posted by: emory!wotan.compaq.com!hackney (Greg Hackney)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 09:48:28 1993
Subject: Clunker Legislation alert
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6735
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I pulled this off the net.  Thought you would be interested.

John
----------------------------------

From: daniels@lmsbvx.tamu.edu (Lee M. Daniels)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique
Subject: SURVEY - combat klunker legislation!
Date: 25 Oct 1993 08:39 CST

Hi, all --- Below you will find an "Automotive Hobby Survey" sponsored by 
the Council of Vehicle Associations, typed (by me) approximately as it 
appears in the December issue of Classic Auto Restorer (C.A.R.) (page 49).
As stated, the purpose is to gather information to defend the old-car hobby
against "destructive legislation".  You are encouraged to print it out and
send it in to the address given.  The first two sections are not applicable
to most of us; I suspect that we're mostly the "hobbyist/collectors" of
section three.  But you might want to give a copy to your mechanic/restorer,
too. 

Here 'tis:

***************************************************************************
AUTOMOTIVE HOBBY SURVEY
***************************************************************************
YOUR HELP IS URGENTLY NEEDED.  COVA, the Council of Vehicle Associations, 
is sponsoring this survey as part of its effort to defend the old-car hobby 
against the destructive legislation now being developed and enacted across 
the nation.  The statistics gathered by this survey will help demonstrate 
to government officials the size of the constituency involved in the hobby 
and the substantial economic force it represents.

Please complete this survey and return it to the Council of Vehicle Asso-
ciations, 10400 Roberts Rd., Palos Hills, IL 60465, or FAX your response 
to 708-598-4888.  If you need more copies of this form, or camera-ready art
for your organization's newsletter, please call 800-CARS-166.  All infor-
mation will be kept in strict confidence and used only for the purpose of 
presenting statistical industry information to lawmakers. 

PROFESSIONAL RESTORERS:  Complete this section if you make your living 
restoring automobiles.
1. How many people do you employ (including yourself)?____________________
2. How many customers do you serve annually?______________________________
3. What are your annual sales?____________________________________________
4. How many jobs do you complete per year?________________________________
5. What do you spend annually on equipment, supplies, etc.?_______________
6. What is your market:  ___International  ___National  ___State  ___Local
7. To what vehicle associations, clubs, etc., do you belong?______________

   _______________________________________________________________________

SUPPLIERS/MANUFACTURERS: Complete this section if you supply goods and/or 
services to the restoration industry.
1. How many people do you employ (including yourself)?____________________
2. How many customers do you serve annually?______________________________
3. What are your annual sales?____________________________________________
4. Do you export?_________________________________________________________
5. If you export, what percent of your annual sales?______________________
6. What do you spend annually on equipment, supplies, etc?________________
7. To what vehicle associations, clubs, etc., do you belong?______________

   _______________________________________________________________________

HOBBYISTS/COLLECTORS: Complete this section if you are a collectible 
vehicle hobbyist/owner.
1. How many collectible vehicles do you currently own?____________________
2. What percentage of the restoration work do you do yourself?____________
3. On average, how much do you spend annually on a project?_______________
4. On average, how many suppliers do you work with annually?______________
5. To what vehicle associations, clubs, etc., do you belong?______________

   _______________________________________________________________________
6. How many miles per year do you drive each of your vehicles?____________

YOUR NAME_________________________________________________________________

COMPANY NAME______________________________________________________________

ADDRESS __________________________________________________________________

CITY,STATE,ZIP____________________________________________________________

PHONE NO.___________________________FAX NO._______________________________

Would you like more information on how you, your company or your club can 
become affiliated with COVA? ___YES ___NO      Thanks for your cooperation!

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 09:55:31 1993
Subject: Re: Very outdated thinking by cam companies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6736
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> All I can do is describe the process.  My assumption was that they
-> are done on a CNC machine.  We either send them a profile print out

 Ultradyne cuts a smaller-than-actual-size master lobe on a conventional
vertical mill, then uses that to generate the master cam for the
grinder.  The master cams are saucer sized.  I'm not sure how Lunati and
Lazer do it; there was nothing I saw there that looked like it would be
useful for making lobes.  Maybe they do it with a belt sander.  Comp
Cams was paranoid and wouldn't even let us *talk* to anyone, much less
get into the work areas; they might have anything from CNC equipment to
midgets with bastard files doing the masters.

 I talked quite a bit with Harold Brookshire, owner of Ultradyne, when I
was writing about cams.  Brookshire used to do the cam designs for
General Kinetics, then worked at Comp, then started his own company.
The cam business is pretty inbred.  Where most cam people will act like
you just made an indecent proposal if you ask a question, Brookshire
will talk your ear off.  The downside is, he could easily pass for a
high pressure insurance salesman, and a fair proportion of what he says
is, in my personal opinion, bullshit.  On the other hand, if you can get
him out of bullshit mode he really knows his stuff.


-> or so data points.  We sometimes discuss valve train forces, and from
-> the information they provide I made another assumption that they have
-> some kind of computer assistance.

 I'm sure most of them have computers now.  The basic cam design
formulas are easily available, and you can jam them into a spreadsheet
or Mathcad and go to town.
                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 10:01:33 1993
Subject: Urethane vs. Delrin bushings
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6737
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I figure urethane is a bit radical for the street already.  So what
-> would Delrin bushings be like on the street?  I'd like to know if
-> that would put me over the edge on streetability, since my wallet is
-> in no shape to buy a commute car at the moment.

 I'm running Delrin and aluminum bushings in one of my cars with no
trouble.  Plain old nylon *squeaks* and will drive you nuts.

 I've replaced ALL the front end bushings of one Capri with aluminum and
steel and noticed very little difference in harshness, but a big
improvement in feel.
         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 13:41:00 1993
Subject: Re: Very outdated thinking 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6738
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>>Very outdated thinking b
[.... lots of cam production discussion deleted ....]

I too assumed that cam companies used some sort of CNC process to produce cams
... this was reinforced by an ad in National Dragster the last couple months
from (I think) Compu Cams (?) that guarantees that they will ship your cam
within 24 hrs after you place your order... even if it's a custom grind.   A
bunch of hype about "Express Cam" delivery leaves the impression that they just
punch the numbers in and grind a cam ....

Wonder what's really going on?  Any speculations?

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... groceries delivered ... in 11 seconds or less! ...."





----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 13:50:39 1993
Subject: Forwarded: YADSS (tyet another dream-shop story...)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6739
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Forwarded mail follows:


-> the frozen north but the first pieces of steel for my dream-shop (41W
-> X 68L X 16H quonset barn) went together today...  Time for a Bud Dry
-> and a movie tonight...

 Yee-HAH!  Beats the snot out of a wet gravel driveway, eh?

<
 it sure will... :-)  actually, I've been using the attached garage on the
 house -- kinda *cramped*, no make that *C*R*A*M*P*E*D* -- I have to turn 
 sideways to sneak between the front of the truck and the back wall... I can
 *just barely* remove an axle shaft in there...
 WK
>

 With that much space, you have room for a dozen or so garage queens.
 
< 
 yep... trouble is, here in the frozen-north, it is barely worth it to even
 try to keep anything decent... I can't afford a stable of nice machinery
 that would only see daylight three months a year :( ... so... the barn is
 gonna house a (yet to be procured) travel-trailer and the rest is gonna be
 work-space...  I especially like the fact it has no windows -- keep the 
 nosey neighbors guessing... :)
 WK
>

Walt K.                                                                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 18:50:24 1993
Subject: Clunker Legislation alert
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6740
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 Didn't Canada enact a "rural cleanup" program about 20 years ago to
crush all the old junkers they could find?  It'd be interesting to see
what the result of that was.

 The clunker bills are a farce, not just ecologically but financially.
IMHO the majority of the bills are nothing to get excited about.  Some
company wants to pay you $300 for your licensed, inspected car so they
can crush it so they can continue to flush 2,4,5-T into your
groundwater?  Hey, if it runs and you'll sell it for $300, it ain't much
car to begin with.  It's not like they were scouting the yards and
buying up non-running but restorable Camaros, 'Cudas, and Mustangs.

 It sort of reminds me of the "gun purchase" schemes some cities have
implemented.  Anyone who'd sell their gun for $50 probably shouldn't
have it in the first place.  Same thing for cars.

[These schemes involve lots of money (some proposals, up to $1500)
so this is a real threat.  The real agenda, of course, is to ban old
cars.  Detroit looks to Japan with baited breath, a place where a car is
effectively outlawed after a few years (5?)  Just like gun control,
this is an innocent-sounding first step down the slippery slope of
"clunker confiscation".

The emission credit goes toward similar industrial emissions so not to
worry about the allowance going toward liquid discharge.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 18:57:09 1993
Subject: '54 Chevy Truck Bed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6741
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I got tired of figuring out how to salvage the junky, beat-to-hell bed on my
custom hotrod '54 Chevy truck.  The truck is almost done, and the thing which
has been prolonging the finishing of my truck is the bed.  The original bed
has a 1/4" steel plate welded over the rotted oak plank bed.  The sides, and
the tailgate were all lumpy and dented, and the pillars had big rusted holes
in 'em.  The rear fenders had been dented and pounded as well.  Rather than
wasting countless hours fixing up the bed, I decided to just take it off. 
The bed makes a nice firewood platform now :)

I'm going to make a custom flatbed with humps for the wheels.  I think it'll
have a rectangular steel frame with either wood or aluminum diamond-plate on
top and on the sides.  I'm thinking of square tubing raised rail around it --
maybe 6" up on the sides and higher behind the cab to keep things from
whacking into it.  The rail will make it easy to tie stuff down.  I might be
able to put some luggage compartments in the sides in front and back of the
wheels.

On an old truck, how much stiffness does the bed need to contribute to the
frame?  Is the frame stiff as it is, or does it need the bed to help stiffen
it up to keep it from twisting like a pretzel under power.

My truck's got a 355 Chevy with at least 300 horsepower.  It sits about 2.5"
off the ground in front due to a Mustang II suspension which I installed
myself.  The rearend is a Chevelle 10-bolt.  With a flatbed, I'm going to be
able to put fairly wide tires.  The tires on it now are 9" wide.  I might
want to get some that are about 11" wide.  The frame is the standard width in
back.  I'm going to try to keep the tires so that the overall width is no
wider than the width of the front end (because it'll be easier to fit in the
garage, and because it'd look silly if they stuck out too far.

If I get say 11" wide treads in back and manage to get 300 horsepower planted
to the pavement, will I be in danger of twisting up the frame much?  Or will
I just break the 10-bolt?  I probably never will get terrific traction just
because the back end will be so light.

It'll be just a fun cruiser, but I'd like to be able to really stomp on it
once in a while.  The truck is fairly light because the heavy I-beam
suspension and steering box is gone, the bumpers are gone, and I'll be
putting on a lightweight bed.  That old bed weighed at least 400 lbs with
that massive steel plate laying in it.  When I'm done it should be pretty
quick, but the aerodynamics will be a little less than state of the art :)

One more feature I'm contemplating is moving the rear shock absorbers inboard
of the frame, which will give me another three inches or so of clearance on
each side -- for even WIDER tires.  

Any other ideas?

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 19:38:14 1993
Subject: Re:  Sierra antifreeze?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6742
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Since no one replied right away, perhaps I can shed a little light on this.
Sierra is propylene glycol rather than ethylene glycol.  A 50/50 mix
is supposed to be good down to -27F.  Some of our local club members
are going to try it out;  someone in the club lost her dog because
of ethylene glycol poisoning.  The Sierra is supposed to have
corrosion protection equivalent to ethylene glycol and is STILL
supposed to be safe and non-toxic.  It's also touted as safe for all
metals.  Wonder how this stuff would work with something like RedLine's
WaterWetter?

Anyway, that's about all I know (and most of the above is from an ad
that the Sierra people put out).  It's available here in Austin at
Pep Boys (and maybe elsewhere now too).  It's only a little bit more
expensive than regular antifreeze.  Any experiences with the stuff
that anyone's heard about?

L8er,
jim

[I have mixed emotions about this stuff.  propylene glycol is an excellent
coolant, having a boiling point of 372 degrees at atmospheric pressure and
a very low freezing point (can't find the exact value but I think it is 
below -50).  That means a cooling system can be operated without water 
at atmospheric pressure and still not boil.  Dilluting it as Sierra
recommends defeats this benefit, of course.  On the other hand
Sierra's marketing approach of wrapping themselves in the green mantle
of econazism makes me sick.   I stopped at the antifreeze shelf yesterday
and read the label.  Sickening.  I guess I ought to be glad I can easily 
buy propylene glycol off the shelf and leave it at that.  BTW, the 
price at Downeys (local area chain car parts store) was $5.45 a gallon.
In other words, used undiluted, it is about 4X the cost of ethylene glycol.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: James TenCate 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 19:46:45 1993
Subject: Cam info (was: Outdated Thinking)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6743
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Tue, 26 Oct 93 03:38 EDT
> From:  emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
> 
>

> I'm sure most of them have computers now.  The basic cam design
>formulas are easily available, and you can jam them into a spreadsheet
>or Mathcad and go to town.
>                                                  

Easy enough that you can point me at them :-)?  Thanks.


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Oct 26 19:55:59 1993
Subject: TH350 Power Boosting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6744
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	I'm probably going to plan a re-build soon for my slipping TH350,
which likes to oscillate between neutral and 1st gear when starting out
on a cold morning.

	I've seen in JC Whitney they carry a heavy duty intermediate
race (which somebody told me is actually made by TCI), which is around
$35.

	Does anybody have any opinion if this would be a worthwile
investment to replace the stock race? The transmission is behind a 250
I-6, which has a quite higher than stock torque output. (Also, the
rear end is a low ratio of 2.56, so a lot of stress is placed on the
trans during axle twisting take offs).

	Any opinions appreciated...


                                                    Jason

Since money can't buy happiness, you'll just have to rent some.

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Oct 27 10:36:53 1993
Subject: Re: Sierra antifreeze? 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6745
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>[
>below -50).  That means a cooling system can be operated without water 
>at atmospheric pressure and still not boil.  Dilluting it as Sierra
>recommends defeats this benefit, of course.  

     What about the heat transfer abilities of propylene glycol?  

     Does it transfer heat better than ethylene glycol?  8)
    
  The reason I ask is, I had a problem with a friend's overheating
mustang.  The 3 row radiator helped, but the A/C would push it over
the edge.   We found that by using plain old H20 _with_ a
anti-corrosive agent (Redline's stuff) that it cooled better than a
50/50 mix of ethylene glycol/H20.
   
> BTW, the 
>price at Downeys (local area chain car parts store) was $5.45 a gallon.
>In other words, used undiluted, it is about 4X the cost of ethylene glycol.
    
    Wow, that's the same price as ethylene up here in NY.   

>JGD]

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  
            "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation"

[Nothing in my reference library has anything about the specific heat
of PG but I know that a number of racers have been using it as a coolant
for quite some time.  people like Redline sell it at ungodly prices.
I'm going to try this stuff straight in my Rolls Knardley (68 Fury)
and see what happens.  It has a problem holding pressure and has a 
marginal overheating problem when the AC is on so it should be a 
good test.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: Bob "$1/meg" Valentine 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 05:39:07 1993
Subject: Re:  Clunker Legislation alert
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6746
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The biggest problem associated with the 'clunker' legislation is that it
depletes the pool of spare parts by pulling the donors off the road. Old
cars don't have many options for replacement sheet metal, trim and any
non-standard mechanicals - unless you've got an early Mustang, Chevelle
or Camaro you're pretty much relegated to 'yard scrounging. With the bonus 
paid only for crushing, the good bodies don't even -pause- in the 'yards.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 05:43:28 1993
Subject: Re: Drag Racing Mailing List
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6747
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you write:
>
>
>Sorry for the brief intrusion on this group...
>
>I'm starting a new mailing list devoted to strip drag racing.
>If interested, send email to me: hackney@compaq.com
>
>This list will be moderated, and dedicated to legal (non-street)
>drag racing topics, such as occur at NHRA/IHRA sponsored tracks and events. 
>It will be open to all levels of experience, as the goal is to share
>in the knowledge and thrill of drag racing.
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!wotan.compaq.com!hackney (Greg Hackney)

	Right on!  Drag Racing Rules! Congrats to John Force, Warren Johnson
and Eddie Hill for their Champioships!!
	NHRA Winston Finals tomorrow @ Pomona!! Be there!!!!


JimR
HAC don't know I exist!

----------
Posted by: emory!caesi.scg.hac.com!u77099
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 05:48:08 1993
Subject: SBC crank/cam for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6748
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	I've got a forged crank from a 69 corvette 350 that I want to sell
if anyone is interested.  It had a spun bearing on #7 and is too deep to
cut.  machine shops quoted me $100-$150 to weld the crank, making it suitable
for street use.  It has been cut .010".  I also have the original cam 
(350/350hp) in good condition.  If anyone is interested in these email me at
joskelly@oliver.rutgers.edu.

----------
Posted by: emory!zirconia.rutgers.edu!joskelly (Joseph Kelly)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 05:52:07 1993
Subject: Holley Projection
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6749
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone have any experience with the holley projection system.
I know it's a speed density type of throttle body unit, how well does it work?
I'm wanting to buy the 600 cfm 'two barrel' one to adapt to a draw through
turbo on my mazda RX7. 
  The set up on it looks pretty easy, so of course I'm wary of how good it
can possibly be. I mean how much can one expect for only about $600?
Or better yet, if it's all that great, any one got one for sale?
Thanks. Any comments would be appreciated. 
mail 'em to LPF6158@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU

----------
Posted by: emory!rigel.tamu.edu!lpf6158 (FERRY, LANCE PATRICK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 05:56:32 1993
Subject: Re: Sierra antifreeze?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6750
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Just to throw in my 2 cents, and someone elses:

Just because environmentalists target old cars, in often stupid and
restrictive ways, doesn't mean that hot rodders should be against legitimate
efforts to help the environment.  If Sierra works as well as normal
antifreeze (and from what i've heard it works better), what's 2 bucks a
year to avoid washing incredibly poisonous stuff down the driveway? or
having it disposed at cost to the government?  Sure, catalytic converters
suck, but so does mexico city, where you can't even go outside on some days.

Don't get me wrong;  I am against messing with vintage/hot rod/any old cars
in any way that changes their design philosophy, or the efforts of industry
to cover their asses with our cars. But i also think that it is important
to get newer cars more fuel efficient and for rodders not to abuse their
environment.

Also, here is some important data on Sierra antiifreeze.

In Street Rodder, Oct 93, summarized without permission:

NEO synthetic oil co
2865 Gundry Ave Dept SRM
Long Beach CA 90806
310-595-7208

    Mechanics maintaining bulldozers, 18-wheelers and other heavy duty
equipment know what street rodders are discovering: propy gly is a better
coolant.  it has a boiling point of 365 deg fahr, much higher than
conventional, and its freezing point is -70.

When mixed 50/50 with water, it gives boiling points of 265 degrees, which
helps eliminate pinging;  its freezing point goes to -60

It also has a cleaning effect; it can eliminate radiator plug up and wont
damage alumninum heads or block.  Lab and dyno tests show it performs better
with regard to cast iron cavitation.

Normal antifreeze will cause rapid bearing failure it if gets in the motor
oil; propyglycol won't.

Also, propylene glycol is so safe that the US FDA classified it as generally
regarded safe for direct addition to human food.

It is twice as expensive, but it lasts much longer-- you have to replace
ethylene glycol every year; you just test p.g. with litmus paper and
then add freshening agent.

----------
Posted by: "Philip F. Kromer, IV" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 06:01:34 1993
Subject: Holley carburetor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6751
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        I have a Holley carb sitting in my garagem Holley list #4788.  According
to the Holley carb book, this is a 830cfm unit.  It is a double pumper, with
mechanical secondaries.  Does anyone have any idea what car (engine) this carb
may have been from?  I took it off of a '72 Chevelle SS350 that definitely did
not come with an 830cfm carb.  Thanks for any info.
                                                Larry Stanford
                                                Stanford@waisman.wisc.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!retina.waisman.wisc.edu!stanford
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 06:06:31 1993
Subject: Bulletproofing your vehicle
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6752
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

subject: spectra-shield bullet stop material

Greetings,

On TV the other night I saw an article on armoring vehicles.
There was a business that undertook the work reconstructing
the cockpit with bullet proof glass and sheets of "spectra 
shield" (sp?) in the doors, pillars, etc...

Anyone know a vendor for Spectra Shield bullet stop material?
Got any specs?
OR- got a better idea?

I was gonna side-impact (bullet) reinforce my daily beater anyway, but
the spectra might do better than 12 guage (sheet steel).

-kyle
 wichita, kansas  Ya, its a shame...
    

[This is definitely off-charter so please reply directly to Kyle.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: Kyle Ehler 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 06:10:34 1993
Subject: Re: engine number...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6753
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Gary:

I'm in the process of a ground-up restoration of a 
70 Chevelle SS 454 LS-5. I found the identification
numbers on a pad on the passengers side front of 
the block just below where the head bolts on.
Here you can find the engine code and the VIN
stamped (not cast) into the pad. I then
went to the bookstore and purchased the "Little Red
Book" on SS cars (Camaros, Chevelles, and Impalas)
from 63-72. This contains all the important numbers
for identification.

Go check out your local bookstore. If you can find it,
I'll bring mine to work and look up your info
and email it to you. 

The TKX part of the number you identified it the 
engine code for 68 but right off hand I don't
know what this translates to! 

My work number is (512) 338-5736. You can contact
me from 10AM till 6PM CDT. I am on vacation
from 30 Oct to 15 Nov. 

Are you thinkin' of restoring the car?


 ______________________________________________________________
| THE       _        | Mark A. Gaither -- Information Engineer |
| LONE    _| ~-      | International Software Systems Inc.     |
| STAR    \, *_}     | Austin, TX USA                          |
| STATE     \(       | markg@issi.com                          |
|____________________|_________________________________________|
  

----------
Posted by: emory!issi.com!markg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 06:15:19 1993
Subject: Misc race junk for sale updated list
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6754
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



	I had offers on some of this stuff, then the people seemed to 
	disappear! If you're one of those, please tell me if you are
	or are not still interested.
	Note some new stuff has been added since last posting.
	===================
	Miscellaneous mostly USED Hi-Po parts - small chevy stuff unless
	stated otherwise
	USED  good condition unless stated otherwise

	Moroso 8 qt straight sump pan and pump with pickup
	Manley 3/8 .100 oversize hardened pushrods 
	NASCAR 5/16 .100 oversize hardened pushrods
	Fuel Pump regulator Mallory #4207 $50 NEW
	ATI Flex plate shield powerglide $50 NEW
	600 holley double pump with moroso reuseable gaskets 
	Steel 7 degree 1.437 inch small chevy valve retainers
	Fram HPG-1 canister type Fuel Filter 
	Cam Dynamics Vacum reserve reservoir
	Stock 400 chev used rods - pistons on still but junk
	400 chev balancer stock needs seal saver
	2 - 350 balancers stock
	4 stock 350 rods. balance pads heavily ground down
	K&N Substack
	Comp Cams 292 hyd cam with crane hi rev lifters and manly springs
	Comp Cams magnum roller tip rockers 3/8 stud 1.52 ratio
	1 inch 4 hole metal carb spacer - sq flange
	1 inch open plenum composite carb spacer sq flange
	1 inch moroso 4 hole bakelite carb spacer
	Moroso Air pan kit for single 4 bbl - new
	Engine oil cooler kit - universal style - new
	Set TRW L2442 F 030 pistons for 351 Ford - new - see catalog for details.
	Edelbrock Street tunnel ram - almost new!
	10" 3600 stall convertor for TH350/400 
	Hurst Comp Plus shifter - body only - new
	Chevy Points type Distributor w/curve kit 
	BlackJack headers: See a catalog for details on these. all new
		#3016 65-70 impala small block
		#3701 CJ Jeep w/amc v8, under chassis

Misc crud:
	Patch Panels:	New
		78-89 Suburban/Blazer/Truck Rear corner L & R
		76-89 Chevy Van - Sliding door lower edge
		AM-FM Mono radio out of 78 chevy van
		Tow receiver class 3 for 76-94 chevy van - used
		Thule #307 roof rack with locks NO OTHER acessories - new
			(48 inch rack with clamps for cars with gutters)

	All this stuff can go UPS. The patch panels and headers
	may provide me some packaging problems (if I have boxes for 
	those things they are really beat up.
	If you're interested in any of it, send offers or ask prices.
---
Derek J. Pietro
Picker International
derekp@stdavids.picker.com

----------
Posted by: emory!auspex.com!news
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 06:20:26 1993
Subject: intake and header design
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6755
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I would like some advice on intake manifold design as well as
headers. Are there any good (SAE?) articles or books that describe how
to design intake manifolds and headers, and show the equations
involved in the design? Any articles about ram manifolds like the ones
they used in old mopars? Any articles about step headers?
   
Is there anybody out there that have used Dynomation or Controlled
Induction? Are they worth the money?

Please answer by mail to leif@tde.lth.se since I'm not on the list
(anymore).

Leif

===============================================================================

Leif Olsson 
Department of Applied Electronics         email: leif@tde.lth.se
Box 118
S-221 00 LUND
SWEDEN

----------
Posted by: emory!tde.lth.se!leif (Leif Olsson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 06:25:43 1993
Subject: '54 Chevy Truck Bed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6756
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> On an old truck, how much stiffness does the bed need to contribute
-> to the frame?  Is the frame stiff as it is, or does it need the bed
-> to help stiffen it up to keep it from twisting like a pretzel under
-> power.

 The bed doesn't provide much in the way of stiffness, if any.  The
original layout was longitudinal wooden slats bolted to the stringers.
My brother's '52's bed was mounted on wood (oak?) blocks instead of
rubber like my '65.


-> My truck's got a 355 Chevy with at least 300 horsepower.  It sits
-> about 2.5" off the ground in front due to a Mustang II suspension
-> which I installed myself.  The rearend is a Chevelle 10-bolt.  With a
-> flatbed, I'm going to be able to put fairly wide tires.  The tires on
-> it now are 9" wide.  I might want to get some that are about 11"
-> wide.

 Kevin's running 10" slicks, and his new motor is a 350, 6" aluminum
rods, custom Sig 264/268 @.050, 106 lobe cam, 2x4s, zoomies, and a
5500 stall convertor.  It's okay, even if it is only a Chevy.  He hasn't
twisted anything yet, so I doubt you'll have any trouble.

 His '52 is licensed and street-legal, at least as long as he doesn't
bring it to Arkansas.  He sent me a copy of his military orders, proof
of insurance, the old title, and a power or attorney, and I got him an
antique plate.  It has to be done in person; the Ark. DMV doesn't do
mail.  The zoomies would never pass inspection, but he doesn't have to
have it inspected as long as he's still out of state.  As long as he
doesn't blow the windows out of any Delaware police cars at the
stoplight, he's OK.

-> once in a while.  The truck is fairly light because the heavy I-beam
-> suspension and steering box is gone, the bumpers are gone, and I'll

 I dunno.  We had the axle out of Kevin's when we put new kingpin
bushings in, and I could easily lift it with one hand.  And a steering
box is pretty much a steering box, in fact, some recirculating-ball
boxes are actually lighter than some rack and pinions.  The bumpers are
maybe 20 pounds each, big deal.


-> to the pavement, will I be in danger of twisting up the frame much?
-> Or will I just break the 10-bolt?  I probably never will get terrific
-> traction just because the back end will be so light.

 Kevin's running a 3.73 10-bolt posi and hasn't broken it yet.  The
truck hooks up amazingly well, all things considered.  Since his is at
stock ride height (it was a complete restoration before he decided to
turn it into a bracket vehicle) the CG is pretty high, and once it
starts moving it shifts a lot of weight to the back wheels.  We're both
fairly confident we can get it to wheelie if we get the right length
ladder bars.

 We don't have any track times because his local NHRA Safety Nazis want
him to replace the harmonic balancer with an aftermarket part, yank the
perfectly good fuel tank from the cab, replace his rubber fuel lines
with steel, put in longer wheel studs, add a driveshaft loop, and put
in a roll bar before they'll even let it on the track.  I could sort of
see their point if he was turning in the 10s, but shit fire, it's a 1952
pickup truck; we don't expect much under 14, but they won't even let him
make a run to see what the thing turns.
                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 06:34:24 1993
Subject: Cam info (was: Outdated Thinking)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6757
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Easy enough that you can point me at them :-)?  Thanks.

 I've been using a 1946 publication from Eaton, called "Valve Gear
Design."  I'm sure you could use standard machine design references to
assemble most of what's in there.   Older books tend to have more stuff
on cam designs; hydraulics & tape and actuators & NC have replaced cams
in most modern machinery.
                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu Oct 28 16:41:44 1993
Subject: intake and header design
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6758
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I would like some advice on intake manifold design as well as
-> headers. Are there any good (SAE?) articles or books that describe
-> how to design intake manifolds and headers, and show the equations
-> involved in the design? Any articles about ram manifolds like the
-> ones they used in old mopars? Any articles about step headers?

 The standard reference is "Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust
Systems" by Smith.  It's practically worthless in my opinion.  I have
very little other hard info on intake design.

 For exhaust headers I have quite a bit of stuff.  Some of it even has
formulas and numbers, but they're all empirical - that is, it worked on
some engine, somewhere, and therefore it should apply to everything,
right?  Lots of it is contradictory, including some dyno information.
It's all quite interesting, and I don't trust a damned bit of it.

 Back in the early '70s Grumpy Jenkins said he wasn't worried about
header design that much.  They just made sure the tubes were plenty big
and fit the chassis, and to hell with it, there were just too many
variables to make it worthwhile to chase the perfect combination.
Looking at how similar NASCAR headers are, I'd say most builders still
feel it's more worthwhile to put their time on induction than exhaust.
                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 16:43:13 1993
Subject: Re: Cam info (was: Outdated Thinking)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6759
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article <0zk1ncp@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>> Date:  Tue, 26 Oct 93 03:38 EDT
>> From:  emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

>> I'm sure most of them have computers now.  The basic cam design
>>formulas are easily available, and you can jam them into a spreadsheet
>>or Mathcad and go to town.

>Easy enough that you can point me at them :-)?  Thanks.

>Posted by: Dan Malek 

Years ago in college, I developed a BASIC (yuk) program to design cam 
profiles for a given duration and lift with simple harmonic, cycloidal, and 
some other motion pattern I can't remember.  I do remember that there is a 
restraint on the minimum base circle radius for a given acceleration and 
lift combination, governed by so arcane 4th derivative or something.

  If interested I could probably put my hands on the references and the 
equations.  There are other design constraints, such as minimum lifter 
diameter, contact stress, etc.  If one considers all the engineering factors 
involved besides the simple harmonic motion of the lifter, it gets to be a 
nontrivial set of calculations.  And things such as heat treatment to obtain 
a surface amenable to given contact stress are engineering judgements.

Pete
| Pete Paraska       (paraska@oasys.dt.navy.mil) |

[Please!  Try to put your hands on it.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!paraska (Pete Paraska)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 16:53:56 1993
Subject: Re:  Holley carburetor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6760
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 In my Holley book it says

0-4788
Designed and recommended for off-road competition,
Nascar approved, mechanical secondaries, manual choke,
double pump, 830CFM,

 I don't see it anywhere in the recommended-carb-for-particular-car section.
The 47xx series only shows up in the Strip Only columns. I guess maybe they
lack some of the fittings for smog stuff.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 17:14:19 1993
Subject: Re:  Holley Projection
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6761
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 There's some guy who has built up a wiring harness that mates the big 
Pro-Jection head to a standard GM pickup truck TBI ECM, making it closed-
loop instead of open-loop. Apparently he has to make a special PROM to
fine tune it. The article is in the December 1993 Popular Hot Rodding.

 Looks like a pretty meticulous job; full harness, all GM connectors, 
uses all stock GM sensors, even knock sensor, and IAC. The article 
actually seems to contain substantive information, and lots of
pwetty pitchers.  The impression I get is that a tinkerer with the
right wiring diagram could adapt the standard GM box and harness 
to run a Pro-Jection head themselves; this guy appears to have done it 
for retail, a pro job. 

 I guess another option for the backyard FI hacker would be to follow
the time honored more-carbs-better approach, and use a junker truck
ECM to drive two 2BBL truck units - sort of an electronic dual-quads
approach, just letting the sensor pick up one of them, or maybe even
use two computers and two heads, but in a progressive setup. I bet
a generic dual-4BBL intake wouldn't take much adapting to accept two
TBI units. Yow!


Two addresses given; the guy, and the Holley direct:

Bill Howell
Howell Engine Developments
24356 Sorrentino Ct.
Clinton Twp, MI 48035
(313) 791-6400

Holley Replacement Parts
601 Space Park North
Goodlettsville, TN 37072
(615) 859-3124

{one for Dave's vendor list, if it isn't already in}

 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 17:19:56 1993
Subject: Re: Misc race junk for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6762
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Derek,

What are you asking for the '10" 3600 stall convertor for TH350/400'?

Thanks.

Paul
----
polson@astro.atk.com
olso0106@student.tc.umn.edu

"God is real, unless declared integer."

----------
Posted by: Paul Olson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 18:55:49 1993
Subject: Shift kits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6763
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


  Maybe some will remember me asking about adjusting my modulator valve, well I
did but not much better.  Here's the info:  70 mustang, 351W, Holley 600 vac.,
Edlebrock Performer, headers, etc.  The trans:  FMX  (recently rebuilt, but 
shifting slowly)

  What I would mainly like to know is how hard is it to put in a shift kit?
The place that rebuilt my trans wants about $40+ the kit price.  Can I do
this myself?  Also what kit should I get?  I want to catch seconds and have 
hard shifts when I accelerate, but not jerk my neck off when I'm just taking
it easy.  One more, do they make a shift kit for a FMX?  Jeg's only advertises
the transspack for it.
 
Thanks.
Tom McClendon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 19:05:35 1993
Subject: Glycol data (was: Sierra antifreeze?)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6764
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Now that we know that Sierra antifreeze is propylene glycol (thanks to
whomever posted that), I looked up some of the properties of water,
ethylene glycol, and propylene glycol.  Submitted, for you amusement:


Property                 Water      EtGly      PropGly      Units

boiling point            100         197          188       deg C
freezing point             0         -13                    deg C
molar heat capacity       18          36           45      cal/mol-C
specific heat              1        0.58         0.59     cal/gram-C
vapor pressure at 25 C    24        0.12         0.13       torr
molecular weight          18          62           76      gram/mol
heat of vaporization    9.72       12.06        12.94     kilocal/mol
heat of vaporization     540         195          170      cal/gram
viscosity at temp.    1 @ 20 C  13.6 @ 30 C  18.0 @ 40 C



For mixtures of glycol and water (sp gr = specific gravity at 15 C or 59 F,
fp = freezing point in deg C):

                    EtGly             PropGly
% by volume      sp gr    fp        sp gr    fp

   9.2           1.013   -3.6
  10                                1.006   -2.2
  20                                1.017   -6.7
  23             1.033  -10.7
  25                                1.020   -8.9
  28             1.040  -14
  30                                1.024  -12.8
  38             1.053  -22.3
  40                                1.032  -20.6
  45                                1.037  -26.7
  48             1.067  -33.8
  50                                1.040  -33.3


This table shows that a given concentration of ethylene glycol gives a
lower freezing point up to about 45 %, but for the usual 50:50 mix they
both freeze at -33 C (-28 F).  Also, _Lange's Handbook of Chemistry_
(source of the second table; the first table is from _Solvents_) says that
a mixture of 70 % propylene glycol and 30 % glycerol (% by weights, both
ingredients non-toxic) "makes a suitable antifreeze" and has the same
specific gravity-freezing point curve as ethylene glycol.  This means that
it can be tested with a standard hydrometer calibrated for ethylene glycol.
 Wonder why Sierra didn't use this mixture instead of pure propylene
glycol.  What do they say about testing?  Maybe I should find a jug and
read the label for myself :).  Finally, in my brief search I wasn't able to
find information on boiling point versus composition.

Happy hot-rodding,

Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov


----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames (Carl F. Ijames)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 19:15:31 1993
Subject: Re: Cam info (was: Outdated Thinking)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6765
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Sure, there are lots of standard profiles.  The reason, however, that they are
standard is not because they give great performance, but because they can be
easily modeled mathematically.  Also, to go back a little, some companies
treat overhead cam lift as though the cam were operating a pushrod valve train.
This results in noticable differences in profile for equivalent lift tables.
Remember, the lift is almost never just the radius of the lobe at a specific 
angular location.  It is always a function of the specific valve train for
which the lift table was computed.

Chris

----------
Posted by: emory!leland.stanford.edu!rieflin (Christopher Marco Rieflin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 19:27:27 1993
Subject: PARTS FOR SALE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6766
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I posted this a few months ago and got some replies but my lack of
expirence with the PC would'nt allow me to respond correctly, so here
goes again with some training from good ole' Dave.
  I have an Offenhauser 2x4 intake manifold that fits Pontiac 326-455
from about 1965 to newer for sale. It's polished and don't have but
about 45 minutes time on an engine the intake is like new and has the
adapters to run either Holley or Carter, or remove the adapters to run
the old AFB small 4bls. One person emailed me about this and asked if
the water neck was corroded or not, well the thing is practically new.
Anyone interested? just let me know and you don't even have to email me
direct because I read through all the stuff people have to say, well
almost. If you feel like email hell I don't even know my address tou can
get it off the end of my message. Damn I guess I'll have to get with
Dave to find out my address like I said I'm new at this!!!
                                                     

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!john.tollison (John Tollison)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 19:36:21 1993
Subject: Corvette for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6767
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



                    1975 Corvette  For Sale



	350 with turbo 400 trans

	Black with beidge interior

	Loaded AM-FM cassette stereo

	New stainless brakes 

	Car has approx 80k miles on it

	Asking $6500.00 or M/O

	Runs excellent

	(707)557-5671 Home, eves

        			Ron V

				ron@etcheshop.Berkeley.EDU



----------
Posted by: emory!etch-eshop.Berkeley.EDU!ron (Ronald Viegelahn)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 19:40:28 1993
Subject: Re: Holley carburetor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6768
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> I have a Holley carb sitting in my garagem Holley list #4788.  According
>to the Holley carb book, this is a 830cfm unit.  It is a double pumper, with
>mechanical secondaries.  Does anyone have any idea what car (engine) this carb
>may have been from?  I took it off of a '72 Chevelle SS350 that definitely did
>not come with an 830cfm carb.  Thanks for any info.
>                                                Larry Stanford
>                                                Stanford@waisman.wisc.edu
>----------
>Posted by: emory!retina.waisman.wisc.edu!stanford

Sounds like is was installed in the More is Better Era. In the early to 
mid '70s, lots of people were installing the biggest carbs. they could 
find on anything it would bolt to. Without getting into a huge discussion on 
volumetric efficiency, a 350 c.i. engine can effectively use up to a 650 
cfm. carb. A 600 provides better low and mid-range throttle response. The 
double-pump Holley's actually -can- provide pretty respectable gas mileage, 
if you can keep your toes pulled back in your shoes a bit. Because its a 
double-pump, the primary pump is smaller than many other carbs, for snappy 
throttle response. The big ones like you have are better suited to the big 
motors...440, 454, 460.
					Hope this helps you out some...don
---------
cain@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com

----------
Posted by: emory!mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com!cain
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Oct 28 19:44:57 1993
Subject: Exhaust system tuning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6769
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Dave Williams writes:

> Back in the early '70s Grumpy Jenkins said he wasn't worried about
>header design that much.  They just made sure the tubes were plenty big
>and fit the chassis, and to hell with it, there were just too many
>variables to make it worthwhile to chase the perfect combination.
>Looking at how similar NASCAR headers are, I'd say most builders still
>feel it's more worthwhile to put their time on induction than exhaust.

They may look similar at first glance, but they aren't.  Those guys are
doing anything they can to get one or two horsepower (at least the front
runners).  You can see some evidence of this in the attention being paid 
to multi-diameter primaries, 180 degree designs and tri-y's.  There are
also a few tricks that can be played inside of the headers (there is more
than one way to do a 4 into 1, and neatness counts).

Good exhaust tuning is very important, especially with high duration cams.
The exhaust really should be tuned to the cam, intake and intended power
band.

In some classes you aren't allowed to do much with the intake.  If that
is the case, you really have to pay more attention to the exhaust because
you can't alter the intake.  SCCA A Sedan is one example.  I don't do
roundy round stuff, but I don't think most claimer rules cover headers,
though many cover intakes.

Exhaust tuning is hard work though.. You can try and figure out what the
combination wants with a computer, or you build headers and do trial and
error dyno testing (more likely a combination of the two).  The configuration
is also very dependent on the RPM you're trying to tune for.  Just like
the cam, what works at one track isn't necessarily what will work best
at another.

Smokey really seems to disagree with Grumpy on this one.

  Brian


---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com

----------
Posted by: emory!pms706.pms.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 10:50:42 1993
Subject: Exhaust system tuning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6770
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Smokey really seems to disagree with Grumpy on this one.

 Yeah.  And both of 'em are a little dated nowadays.  I'd love to see
Roush or Shaver or Ingersoll write a book on modern developments.
                                                                                                                    

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 11:05:58 1993
Subject: Re: Cam info (was: Outdated Thinking)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6771
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> If interested I could probably put my hands on the references and the
-> equations.  There are other design constraints, such as minimum

 Sure!  I'm always interested in new info.

 Someone is checking to see if there's a later edition of the 1946 book
I've been using as my main reference - we may be able to put together a
reasonable bibliography.
                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 11:16:03 1993
Subject: Two questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6772
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I have two quick questions.  First off all, does anyone out there
have any experience with hooking up aftermarket speedometers,
preferably the electronic kind?  I have been looking at VDO gauges
in particular, and the reason why I'm curious is I need to know 
about the sending unit that plugs into the original speedo
sending port... I have seen several types of speedo drive shapes
(this is getting sort of vague, I know), and I want to know if
aftermarket speedos generally include adaptors to fit in any 
speedo port.  My old cable, on the end where it plugs into the
original drive port, looks like the head of a flathead screw...
I have also seen ones that look like a small, protruding 1/16th"
square plastic 'thing' used to turn the cable.  I basically need
a speedo that will work with either type.
 
Yes, that was confusing, but I've never seen any speedometer
technical lingo, so it's hard to find the right word.
 
Second question is easy.  Is there a place where I can purchase/
order/rob at gunpoint SAE books?  Things like their fuel handbook
and other such publications?  My school library doesn't carry
ANY SAE books, other than their magazine/journal.  Any help
is greatly appreciated.

----------
Posted by: emory!sdcc13.ucsd.edu!bkolodzi (Hurdy Gurdy Man )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 15:25:59 1993
Subject: Re: Holley carburetor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6773
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


cain@mailhub.scf.lmsc.lockheed.com writes:

>> I have a Holley carb sitting in my garagem Holley list #4788.  According
>>to the Holley carb book, this is a 830cfm unit.
>
>Sounds like is was installed in the More is Better Era. In the early to 
>mid '70s, lots of people were installing the biggest carbs. they could 
>find on anything it would bolt to. Without getting into a huge discussion on 
>volumetric efficiency, a 350 c.i. engine can effectively use up to a 650 
>cfm. carb. A 600 provides better low and mid-range throttle response.

While I definitely agree that it is a common mistake to oversize the carb,
it wouldn't be all that strange for a 350 to require a fair bit more than
a 650.

It depends on where you make your power.  A set of well ported heads
with decently sized valves (2.06+) and a stout cam with some duration
is going to want something a fair bit larger.  If you're running from
4,000-7,500 or so, that 650 won't be the ticket if you have a good
breathing combination.  On the other hand, if you want to give up some
top end horsepower and some torque, you would gain throttle response
by going with a smaller carb.  For really tight stuff, where you're
always coming out of a corner (solo II), I'd tend toward the small carb.
For road racing or drag use, I think something larger would be the ticket
(again, depending on how much it breathes).

>Because its a double-pump, the primary pump is smaller than many other
>carbs, for snappy throttle response.

I can't see how having a small primary pump improves throttle response.
Small throttle bores or venturis, yes, but not the accelerator pump.
I'd rather have a larger pump for versatility and control it with cam
and squirter size.

  Brian


---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com

----------
Posted by: emory!pms706.pms.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 15:36:08 1993
Subject: Re: Misc race junk for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6774
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------
X-Sun-Data-Type: text
X-Sun-Data-Description: text
X-Sun-Data-Name: text
X-Sun-Content-Lines: 16


> Derek,
> 
> What are you asking for the '10" 3600 stall convertor for TH350/400'?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Paul
> ----
> polson@astro.atk.com
> olso0106@student.tc.umn.edu
	Asking $135 + shipping. Its got 2 seasons on it and (I felt)
works quite well. Not too much loss on top end, good hook on low end.
That 3600 stall speed is brake stall behind my 350.
Let me know, or make offer...
Thanks...
----------
X-Sun-Data-Type: default
X-Sun-Data-Description: default
X-Sun-Data-Name: .signature
X-Sun-Content-Lines: 3

Derek J. Pietro
Picker International
derekp@stdavids.picker.com

----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 15:45:44 1993
Subject: apologies for price posting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6775
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Sorry bout that, I meant to reply to the originator...

----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 15:57:41 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-40*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6776
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, my favorite bartender, and the nice folks at TNN.  PLEASE 
confirm dates and times with your local listings before setting your 
VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

IHBA DRAG BOATS, PHOENIX (T)          10/30    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
World Of Speed & Beauty (sprint school10/30    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (trans. cooler)    10/30    10:30-11:00AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (sprint school10/30    1:00-1:30PM      TNN
Firehawk/Supercar Series              10/30    1:30-2:00PM      TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               10/30    2:00-2:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans ,Pomona (L)  10/30    2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      10/30    3:00-3:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            10/30    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek                             10/30    5:00-5:30PM      MPT**

	[CHANGE CLOCKS BACK TO STANDARD TIME WHERE APPLICABLE]

MotorWeek                             10/31    2:00-2:30AM      WGN
SpeedWeek                             10/31    2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             10/31    4:00-4:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               10/31    9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              10/31    9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Lyn St. James)               10/31    10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans ,Pomona (L)  10/31    10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      10/31    11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           10/31   11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (sprint school10/31    12:00-12:30PM    TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      10/31    12:30-1:00PM     TNN
WINSTON CUP, PHOENIX (L)              10/31    2:00-5:30PM      TNN
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, LAGUNA SECA (T)      10/31    4:00-5:00PM      ESPN
Prime Time Motorsports                10/31    4:30-5:00PM      HTS*
SCCA, DALLAS GRAND PRIX (T)           10/31    5:00-6:00PM      ESPN
Shadetree Mechanic (trans. cooler)    10/31    5:30-6:00PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           10/31    6:30-7:00PM      TNN
Thunder At The Summit ('93 NHRA season10/31    7:00-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA WINSTON FINALS, POMONA (L)       10/31    7:30-8:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      10/31    8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Winners (Lyn St. James)               10/31    9:00-9:30PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (trans. cooler)    10/31    10:30-11:00PM    TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      10/31    11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              10/31   11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/31   11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               11/01    12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (sprint school11/01    12:30-1:00AM     TNN
Thunder At The Summit ('93 NHRA season11/01    1:00-1:30AM      TNN
NHRA WINSTON FINALS, POMONA (T)       11/01    1:30-2:30AM      TNN
SAAB PRO SERIES, LEXINGTON (T)        11/01    3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
INDY LIGHTS, NAZARETH (T)             11/01    4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
This Week On Pit Road                 11/01    11:00-11:30PM    HTS*
Harley-Davidson's 90th Birthday       11/02    12:45-1:45AM     SHO
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 11/02    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
America On The Road                   11/02    2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
DODGE/SHELBY PRO, CHARLOTTE (T)       11/02   11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 11/03    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
VINTAGE SPRINT CARS, CHARLOTTE (T)    11/03    3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             11/03    11:00-11:30PM    ESPN
IHBA DRAG BOATS, BAKERSFIELD (T)      11/04    1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 11/04    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Movie: Vanishing Point                11/04    1:30-3:30AM WNUV in Balt.
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 11/04    3:30-4:00AM      MTV
Movie: Bullitt                        11/04    3:30-6:00AM      WGN
NHRA, CHIEF NATIONALS, DALLAS (T)     11/04    12:00-1:00PM     HTS*
Cycle World                           11/04    1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     11/04    2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
MotorWeek                             11/04    8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           11/04    8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     11/04    9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                11/04    10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (L)    11/04   11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
BRIDGESTONE SUPERCAR SERIES,PHOENIX (T11/05    12:00-12:30AM    ESPN
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, SACRAMENTO (T)    11/05    12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Movie: Bullitt                        11/05    1:05-3:20AM      TBS
Motoworld                             11/05    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
SODA OFF-ROAD, LAKE ODESSA (T)        11/05    3:30-4:30AM      ESPN
IHRA SPORTSMAN SERIES, EPPING (T)     11/05    4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (T)    11/05    12:00-1:00PM     HTS*
Checkered Flag (F1 @ Suzuka)          11/05    7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
NASCAR SPORTSMAN SERIES, NASHVILLE (T)11/05    8:00-10:00PM     ESPN
NASCAR Shop Talk w/Eli Gold           11/05    10:00-10:30PM    ESPN
SpeedWeek                             11/06    1:30-2:00AM      ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS----------

BUSCH GN, ROCKINGHAM (T)              11/06    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
FORMULA 1, ADELAIDE, OZ (T)           11/07    8:00-10:00AM  TSN,ESPN
WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PIT CREW RACE (T)  11/07    12:00-12:30PM    TNN
BUSCH GN, HICKORY (L)                 11/07    2:00-4:00PM      TNN
NHRA, WESTERN AUTO NATIONALS,TOPEKA(T)11/07    6:05-7:30PM      TNN
WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PIT CREW RACE (T)  11/07    9:00-9:30PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, ROCKINGHAM (T)           11/13    1:00-2:30PM      TNN
ARCA, ATLANTA (T)                     11/14    12:00AM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, HOOTERS 500, ATLANTA (L) 11/14    12:30PM          ESPN
AMA, CAMEL CLASSIC II, LOUDON (T)     11/14    2:00-3:25PM      TNN
SPRINT CAR WORLD SERIES, PHOENIX (L)  11/14    6:00-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA, MILE-HIGH NATIONALS (T)         11/14    9:00-10:30PM     TNN
WINSTON CUP, PHOENIX (T)              11/20    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
Hydroplane Racing, Pearl Harbor (T)   11/21    1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
SPRINT CAR WORLD SERIES, PHOENIX (L)  11/21    6:00-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA, SPORTSNATIONALS, BANDIMERE (T)  11/21    9:00-10:30PM     TNN
BUSCH GN, HICKORY (T)                 11/27    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
KNOXVILLE NATIONALS SHOOTOUT (T)      11/28    2:00-3:30PM      TNN
SPRINT CAR WORLD SERIES, PHOENIX (L)  11/28    6:00-7:30PM      TNN
NASCAR Awards Banquet (L)             12/03    9:00PM           ESPN
BMW VINTAGE, LIME ROCK (T)            12/04    12:00PM          ESPN
SPRINT CAR WORLD SERIES, PHOENIX (L)  12/05    6:00-7:30PM      TNN

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     ASN                Arizona                         Ben Loosli
     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
     PSN                Portland                       Mike Butts
  SportsChannel      San Francisco                     Chuck Fry
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public and commercial TV stations throughout
N. America.

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 16:08:12 1993
Subject: Re: Holley carburetor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6777
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Larry wrote
>> I have a Holley carb sitting in my garagem Holley list #4788.  According
>>to the Holley carb book, this is a 830cfm unit.  It is a double pumper, with
>>mechanical secondaries.  Does anyone have any idea what car (engine) this carb
>>may have been from?  I took it off of a '72 Chevelle SS350 that definitely did
>>not come with an 830cfm carb.  Thanks for any info.
>>----------
>to which don replied:
>Sounds like is was installed in the More is Better Era. In the early to 
>mid '70s, lots of people were installing the biggest carbs. they could 
>find on anything it would bolt to. Without getting into a huge discussion on 
>volumetric efficiency, a 350 c.i. engine can effectively use up to a 650 
>cfm. carb. A 600 provides better low and mid-range throttle response. The 
>double-pump Holley's actually -can- provide pretty respectable gas mileage, 
>if you can keep your toes pulled back in your shoes a bit. Because its a 
>double-pump, the primary pump is smaller than many other carbs, for snappy 
>throttle response. The big ones like you have are better suited to the big 
>motors...440, 454, 460.
>					Hope this helps you out some...don

First to help Larry - I don't think the factory ever used double pumper
carbs as "stock".  If it is a "stock" carb I'm almost positive it was used 
on GM or Ford semi race motors.   In '69 some Chevy big blocks had 3-barrel
carbs (I think the Motion Camaros...) but even those were vacuum secondary.
According to my limited Holley book the 4150 style double pumper was used
on some Chevy big blocks starting in 1967 - I assume this means 427 NASCAR
motors.

Second about carburator sizing.  When choosing vacuum secondary carb - you
generally are choosing a carb for street use.  I just drove my mustang into
work (15miles) and only took it above 2000rpm once.  This means I would 
want the best carb for 1500-2000 rpm range and the capability of going
to 6000 rpm (maybe 6500).  Since I would be looking at a vacuum secondary
carb I would make my choice based on max rpm.  This would give me resonable
power at high rpm and the best throttle response at low rpm.

If I was looking at a double pumper for race use I would be more concerned
about the minimal rpm.  The carberator requires a certain amount of air (
mass ot air) to flow past the venturi to get the fuel to flow.  At too low
of a flow rate - the fuel never starts and the engine bogs.  Of course on 
a vacuum secondary this venturi area is 1/2 of what it would be on a double
pumper.  Holley publishes a chart that indicates carb size vs. minimum 
engine rpm and engine size.  Minimum rpm would be either the rpm your 
clutch is released at or the rpm the torque converter stalls at.  Another
methode, mentioned to me by someone else on a different list, was to assume
that the Holley double pumper is the most efficient between 1/3 and 2/3 of 
its rated capacity.  This means a 750 carb should be concidered a 250cfm 
carb for calculating minimum rpm and a 500 cfm carb for calculating the 
maximum rpm.  Yes the carb can be used beyond its 2/3 cfm rating but your
intake manifold's vacuum starts increasing - meaning your actually choking
off the air.  Remember the the 750cfm rating is at 1.5 in. Hg.  So on a 350
engine a 750 double pumper will work best from about 2500 rpm to 5000 rpm 
and really limit the power at 7500 rpm.  According to Holley's chart a 
stall speed of 1500 is the bare mimimum which cooresponds to about 20% of 
rated carb capacity.  The 1500 minimum rpm would require 50cc pumps front
and rear - along with properly tuned shooters etc.  I would bet anyone 
trying the 750double pumper on a 350 motor would prefer a 2500 rpm stall 
converter.

Given all this I don't think the 800cfm rating would be too bad for a 427.

Dirk

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Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 16:13:34 1993
Subject: Re: hipo junk for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6778
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Derek- a few questions- The Comp Cams roller rockers. What shape and how much
do you want?? I have a set of ported/polished 1.94" heads on a 327 and am
still using the stock push in studs (are they 3/8", I can't remember?)
and stock type rockerarms. i have an Isky 280/465 cam and would like to know
if there would be a clearence problem using the 1.53 ratio rollers in place
of the 1.6 ratio stock rockers. If Derek can't answer, could someone tell
me for sure. Thanks, and you can amswer to me to keep the signal to noise
ratio to a minimum.

Frank   FBS3@oas.psu.edu

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Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 16:18:13 1993
Subject: sanctioning body addresses
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6779
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 I'm looking for the addresses for the following bodies to add to the
Vendor List:

     Equipe Rapide Car Club (Dallas TX)
     IMCA
     ISCA
     NASCAR
     World of Outlaws
     SCORE
     SCTA (Southern California Timing Association)
     NHRA
     IHRA
     IDBA (International Drag Bike Association)
     IDBA (International Drag Boat Association)

 I'd also cheerfully accept address/phones/contacts for any of the major
racetracks, driving schools, etc.
                                                                                                                      

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 16:22:38 1993
Subject: Misc for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6780
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Sorry for the bandwidth.

Derek, I sent you mail. It bounced. Pls send me e-mail and
I'll attempt to respond again.

Filippo Morelli
bilge@east.delfin.com

p.s. I'm interested in the rear corner patches. Wanted to know
	area of coverage of the patches and the price. Thanx.

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Posted by: emory!East.DELFIN.com!bilge (Filippo Morelli)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 16:27:31 1993
Subject: Re:  Holley Projection
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6781
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , The Hotrod List  wrote:

> There's some guy who has built up a wiring harness that mates the big 
>Pro-Jection head to a standard GM pickup truck TBI ECM, making it closed-
>loop instead of open-loop. Apparently he has to make a special PROM to
>fine tune it. The article is in the December 1993 Popular Hot Rodding.

> Looks like a pretty meticulous job; full harness, all GM connectors, 
>uses all stock GM sensors, even knock sensor, and IAC. The article 
>actually seems to contain substantive information, and lots of
>pwetty pitchers.  The impression I get is that a tinkerer with the
>right wiring diagram could adapt the standard GM box and harness 
>to run a Pro-Jection head themselves; this guy appears to have done it 
>for retail, a pro job. 

Yeah, I've done a ground up wiring harness for a GM TBI computer, wasn't
bad at all.  You'll need both the wiring manual and the emissions
manual for the model you get the ECM from.  You'll still need
a custom prom.  Maybe I should go into business doing this, too?

> I guess another option for the backyard FI hacker would be to follow
>the time honored more-carbs-better approach, and use a junker truck
>ECM to drive two 2BBL truck units - sort of an electronic dual-quads
>approach, just letting the sensor pick up one of them, or maybe even
>use two computers and two heads, but in a progressive setup. I bet
>a generic dual-4BBL intake wouldn't take much adapting to accept two
>TBI units. Yow!

You'll still need custom prom's...  and getting a pair of GM ECM's to work
in stages would be a nightmare (getting 0 pulse width out of a GM ECM
only in certain places is almost impossible...).  A single ECM driving
a pair of TBI units would be more reasonable, just need to add another pair
of 4/1 drivers.  You still are going to need a custom prom.











-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu     >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \ Wanted: 68 Camaro Convertible V8/4spd   /

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Posted by: emory!grumpy.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 19:37:32 1993
Subject: Re: hipo junk for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6782
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Derek- a few questions- The Comp Cams roller rockers. What shape 
and how much
>do you want?? I have a set of ported/polished 1.94" heads on a 
327 and am
>still using the stock push in studs (are they 3/8", I can't 
remember?)
>and stock type rockerarms. i have an Isky 280/465 cam and would 
like to know
>if there would be a clearence problem using the 1.53 ratio 
rollers in place
>of the 1.6 ratio stock rockers. If Derek can't answer, could 
someone tell
>me for sure. Thanks, and you can amswer to me to keep the signal 
to noise
>ratio to a minimum.


I think stock rocker arms are 1.50 (I may havve read that they 
are actually 1.48
rounded up to 1.50.

YMMV

The 1.52 should be a direct bolt-in

Comp Cams also makes 1.60's  these might require machining 
(elongating of pushrod holes).

Good Luck
Dirk

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Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 19:46:45 1993
Subject: Re: Exhaust system tuning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6783
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <2zm1cn=@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com writes...
> 
>Dave Williams writes:
> 
>> Back in the early '70s Grumpy Jenkins said he wasn't worried about
>>header design that much.  They just made sure the tubes were plenty big
>>and fit the chassis, and to hell with it, there were just too many
>>variables to make it worthwhile to chase the perfect combination.
>>Looking at how similar NASCAR headers are, I'd say most builders still
>>feel it's more worthwhile to put their time on induction than exhaust.
> 
>They may look similar at first glance, but they aren't.  Those guys are
>doing anything they can to get one or two horsepower (at least the front
>runners).  You can see some evidence of this in the attention being paid 
>to multi-diameter primaries, 180 degree designs and tri-y's.  There are
>also a few tricks that can be played inside of the headers (there is more
>than one way to do a 4 into 1, and neatness counts).
> 
Actually, from what I've seen and heard, NASCAR people don't think there's 
a whole lot to header design.  I got a good look at one of Alison's stockers
over the summer and it blew my mind when I saw the hesders.  They looked like 
plain old small block Ford shorty headers.  Not the factory ones, but 
aftermarket ones.  Now i'm not saying these are over the counter parts but,
they certainly didn't look special.  These were absolutely no where near
equal length.  They looked about 2 1/2 o.d. and ran straight back to the
colecter via the shortest possible route, with the longest tube being near
24" long and the shortest tube not over 12".  What I'm guessing this means
is that in a restricted NASCAR engine, the exhaust doesn't hide much power.
Which makes sense I guess.  
I really took note of this because just the week before I was helping a 
friend change plugs on his 180 degreed late model, Not fun.
All this talk has really got me wondering now if there isn't "something 
hidden" inside the pipes of those headers.

Steve "Air Cooled" Cole

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Posted by: emory!zeus.tamu.edu!smc9782 (DEAD DOG)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Oct 29 19:55:42 1993
Subject: rocker arms on 460
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6784
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

What type of rocker arms does a Ford 460 have?  I had a '61 T-Bird with a
390, and it had shaft mounted rockers which were unadjustable.  The only way
to adjust the valves was to get different length or adjustable length
pushrods.  Does the 460 have the same antique setup, or does it have
adjustable rockers?

Still trying to figure out what to do with my Police Interceptor 460.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 31 18:36:52 1993
Subject: magazine Schlock
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6785
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Has anyone ever noticed in the magazines like Hotrod that they have really
lame articles about new products.  All they do is tell you what the
manufacture claims it does.  They never give an opinion on them.  They NEVER
say anything bad about it, and they never question obvious phony wording put
out by the manufacturer about it.  I think the "new products" sections of the
magazines are little more than free ads for the companies.  

The ads in the Summit catalog are the same.  Every ad says this product is
much better than the other ones because of blah blah blah.  

They try to tell you that you need to replace your motors bolts with their
chrome plated grade 5 bolts, when the stock bolts were most likely grade 8.
Or, they tell you that their replacement aluminum fuel pump pushrod is much
stronger than your stock steel one -- what a bunch of crap!

A lot of the aftermarket stuff is made like crap now.  I bought a chrome-moly
oil pump drive shaft from PAW for about $12.00 -- the pin fell out in my hand
and the sleeve fell off.  I called and complained and they said "smash it back
in with a hammer".  What a moron.  The holes were obviously drilled too large.
 I got a good oil pump shaft made by Moroso from the local speed shop.

I wish there was some sort of consumer advocate articles in magazines so you'd
know which lame brands to stay away from.  

The really lame products I've seen are mass-produced in Taiwan and sold in
generic boxes.  All of the no-name chrome goodies come from Taiwan now.  A lot
of the well known brands just re-package the Taiwan stuff and call it theirs.
The chrome timing pointer from PAW was about 4 degrees off, so I had to bend
it.

If any of you have opinions on certain brands of products, it'd be great to
hear about it -- because the magazines never will.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 31 18:45:35 1993
Subject: RE: rocker arms on 460
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6786
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>What type of rocker arms does a Ford 460 have?  I had a '61 T-Bird with a
>390, and it had shaft mounted rockers which were unadjustable.  The only way
>to adjust the valves was to get different length or adjustable length
>pushrods.  Does the 460 have the same antique setup, or does it have
>adjustable rockers?

Non-adjustable rockers.  This is not do to the rocker arms but rather the 
rocker arm adjusting nut.  The nut requires you to torque it down to keep 
it from turning itself.  You can get locking nuts for the 460.  Idealy 
you'd also get either longer pushrod or studs that allow you some room to
adjust.  Getting longer push rods could upset your valve / rocker / pushrod 
geometry.  A friend built a 460 - his biggest problem was getting the right 
valve springs.  Seems everyone makes high lift cams but the valve springs 
he had (single) were not capable of .500 + lift cams.  So after lunching a 
set of push rods (car worked fine for a couple of 100 miles) he had dual 
springs installed.  He also had adjustable rockers from the beginning (
stock rocker arms + adjusting nut)  Since 460's are the mass produced Ford 
big block I would suspect that there are alot of parts available.  Check 
out the Ford SVO catalog.

Dirk

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Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 31 18:56:44 1993
Subject: Re: Fuel-Injecting an old car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6787
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



In a previous article, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) says:

>I have a '71 Mercedes-Benz 250 with the stock 2.8L SOHC engine which is
>fitted with dual Zenith INAT carburators that I am really getting tired of.
>I would like to upgrade this car to computer controlled port style fuel
>injection.  Does anyone have any suggestions as to where to find the
>necessary parts?  I suspect that I will have to somehow fabricate the
>necessary intake manifold.  Where would be the best place to start on that?
>Where could I obtain a throttle body and air sensor assembly?  How about a
>controller?
>
>>From what I understand, it is possible to drill and tap a carburetor-type
>manifold and buy throttle body assemblies, provided there are no available
>aftermarket parts.  A controller I could probably put together and program
>myself, given sufficient free time.
>
>My ultimate objective is for this to be my daily driver and for my current
>daily driver (a '78 280Z) to become my project car, but the relative states
>of the cars prevent that.  I also plan to upgrade the ignition system at
>some point.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Karl Ramm   IZCC#91  '78 Datusn 280Z (daily beater) 
>Freelance Hacker                       '71 Mercedes 250 (project car)
>
>----------
>Posted by: Karl Ramm 
>

Doesn't Haltech make their laptop programmable fuel injection to work in
apps like this?  Of course, as far as fabing an intake sensor and all, maybe
they have that too.  I do not know.  Try finding their address/phone number.
(sorry, i don't have it.)
i understand tho, that Haltech is good stuff, as far as aftermarket FI goes.
cya
good luck
DREW 

--
Today I'll play the part of nonparent, not make a hundred rules for you to kno
about yourself, not lie and make you believe what's evil is making love and
making friends and meeting God your own way; to see, to bleed cannot be
taught. In turn, you're making us.....*******G HOSTILE!--Pantera  VDP

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Posted by: emory!po.CWRU.Edu!aas7 (Andrew A. Spencer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 31 19:05:22 1993
Subject: Sand Blasting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6788
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> with baking soda.  I'm going to try it! They claim it doesn't warp

 I'm a little skeptical, since the very fine powder at the bottom of my
sand blaster does almost nothing.  I'd expect you'd need more velocity
when blasting with powders.
                                                                                                 

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 31 19:10:54 1993
Subject: Sand Blasting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6789
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Some of you may remember that I posted a question a few weeks back about
alternate blasting media.  I was interested in a media that I could blast
with without distorting sheet metal.  I just read in my brand new
issue of 4-wheel and Off-Road magazine about a company that blasts
with baking soda.  I'm going to try it! They claim it doesn't warp
sheet metal.  In fact, there is a photo of an aluminum pepsi can that
they have blasted half of the logo off!  I'll let you know how it goes.

I'll bet I can get baking soda a lot cheaper than the plastic media.

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 31 19:27:14 1993
Subject: Re: Exhaust system tuning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6790
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> colecter via the shortest possible route, with the longest tube being
-> near 24" long and the shortest tube not over 12".  What I'm guessing
-> this means is that in a restricted NASCAR engine, the exhaust doesn't
-> hide much power.

 That's back to what Jenkins was saying.  With a high overlap racing
cam, you can yodel down the carb and hear it out the exhaust a good
portion of the time; the entire air path is open.  There is, of course,
power to be found anywhere, but Jenkins' point was there is only a
finite amount of time to develop a particular combination, and you can't
go wailing off on too many variables at once or you're not going
anywhere at all.  He'd decided it was more time/cost effective to just
make sure the exhaust was big enough and ignore it, as the most critical
changes were in the intakes and heads, at least for early-'70s small
block Chevy drag motors.

 Current thinking on unequal-length headers is that Bends are Bad,
causing anomalous pressure-wave reflections, for whatever that's worth.
So some headers are now made with the absolute shortest path, and
to hell with the length.  Mickey Thompson had basically the same idea
and reasoning in 1961, or maybe it was 1962.  A long time ago, anyway.
He had a whole line of "straight tube" headers for a while.

 The unequal lengths tend to broaden the power curve a bit at the
expense of peak, but this probably applies mainly to 1-5/8 or 1-3/4
street tubes; lots of drag and short track guys are running 2.5 or
larger sewer pipes, and the effects of tube length are proportionally
less.

 Given my druthers, I'd still like for the tubes to be more or less the
same length, but it's nice to know it isn't going to raise hell if you
have to alter a tube to clear the chassis or steering.


 While we're on the subject of headers, does anyone have *anything* on
how to size tubes and runners for tri-Y headers?  I'm planning on
fabricating a set for The Car, mainly because they'll take up a whole
lot less space than four-into-ones.  The Smith book has nothing on
tri-Ys.
                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Oct 31 19:32:14 1993
Subject: rocker arms on 460
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6791
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> What type of rocker arms does a Ford 460 have?

 Probably the pedestal-and-sled type like most Clevelands and 5.0
Windsors.  Early 429s and high performance models had screw in studs and
conventional rockers, but Ford really likes their damned sled fulcrums.
I guess it does make the valvetrain more stable on canted valve engines,
but they're a pain if you want an adjustable valvetrain.
                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)