From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 02:39:24 1993
Subject: Re: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6156
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> 
> -> I have the "Pink Rods" in my '70 Corvette 350, so I know about those,
> -> but are all the others roughly the same?
> 
> 
>  The narrow rods came in the 307, 305, and all late model (mid '80s up)
> 350s, including the LT-1.  I don't think the wide beam rod is being used
> in production engines now.


Are you talking about the new LT-1 or the original?
The original LT-1 came with the indestructible (well, pretty much anyway
;-) Pink rods.

I don't know what the new LT-1 uses for rods, as a matter of fact
about the only thing that I know for sure about the new engine
is that I sure wish they had named it something else. ;-)



> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>  
                      
                                          
                     
                     |                    
                     | David Gunsul       
                     | mgwhiz!mogun!dcg@mgweed.att.com
                     |------------------------------------------------
                     |  It's amazing what $2,500 worth of big block
                     |  will do to $30,000 worth of high technology. 


----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!mgwhiz!mogun!dcg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 04:40:41 1993
Subject: Re: GM Flywheel ID (?)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6157
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
: Does anyone out there know what GM vehicles, including trucks,
: came _stock_ from GM with the 168 tooth flywheel? Preferably
: drilled for 11" clutch, but not absolutely necessary.

As far as I remember practically all Chevrolets come with
168 tooth flywheels (at least in the 1960's and 70's). The
only exceptions I can think of offhand are post 1963 six
cylinder engines and ZL1's.

As for the starter I remember in my dim past putting an LS-6
in an L-89 Indy Pace Car Camaro I used to have (the aluminum
head motor was VERY blown up).  I used a Detroit balance version
of the 153 tooth flywheel (a 454 version of the ZL1 part) and only
required a change in the starter nose to make the smaller flywheel
and bellhousing work so I would guess this is the only difference.

Perhaps there is a casting number on the flywheel which somebody
can identify.

Regards -
Phil

----------
Posted by: emory!netcom.com!preston (Philip Preston)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 05:34:23 1993
Subject: RE: GM Flywheel ID (?)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6158
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Does anyone out there know what GM vehicles, including trucks,
>came _stock_ from GM with the 168 tooth flywheel? Preferably
>drilled for 11" clutch, but not absolutely necessary.

This is the most common flywheel for 70's era small blocks.  My 75 
Blazer has one and the 75 corvette block also had one.  I think Chevy 
II's had the smaller one and I wouldn't bet on the late model motors.  
There is a difference in mounting though.  Some of my blocks have two 
bolt holes  - parallel with the flywheel (I think) and some have them 
staggered. I just bought a flywheel (actually two - long story) and I 
noticed that the parts catalog listed a 168 tooth flywheel for almost 
every application.  Go to a Speed Shop and browse through their Hayes or 
Mclead catalog to be sure.

Dirk
----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 05:40:28 1993
Subject: s [DRe; [D [D: Starter ID
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6159
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Subject: GM Flywheel ID (?)

>Does anyone out there know what GM vehicles, including trucks,
>came _stock_ from GM with the 168 tooth flywheel? Preferably
>drilled for 11" clutch, but not absolutely necessary.

>Reason: I have one, source unknown, and I need a starter. The
>local place that sells rebuilds can only ID them by make and model. Casting
>numbers aren't trustworthy on rebuilds, and they won't let me take it apart
>to check it out (supposedly, the head casting for the 168 tooth has two
>attaching bolts that are different lengths; the other head has equal-length
>screws. Also, it'd be nice to know what vehicle I get other misc parts 
>from...

Mike

Any starter made for a turbo hydamatic 350 (example. 70-82 Camaro,
Caprice, Truck, etc.) will fit the 168 tooth flywheel. The starter will have
mounting holes kiddie corner from each other. The starters made for the
smaller flywheels will have mounting bolts side-by-side. Also Summit sells
high torque starters that are set up for both large and small flywheels on the
same starter. You can't go by length of bolts as some of the starters use 
equal length bolts and some use odd length bolts yet both will work on the 168
tooth flywheel.

Roger.

----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 05:45:18 1993
Subject: Re: New cam
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6160
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Check you Manifold vacum. It might be the power valve is open all
the time. I have a similar problem with my 454. It idles a 6 Hg. the
power valve were 85 = 8.5 Hg. The reason I think this might be your
problem is the higher lift , longer duration cam will reduce the vacum.

 Check your plugs too. If thier wet it's probably the carb.


 Have fun tunning!!

 Jerry 

----------
Posted by: emory!cpd.tandem.com!jerry
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 05:49:21 1993
Subject: Hurst shifter problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6161
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi,

I have a Hurst Competition Plus shifter on a Ford toploader.  I pulled
the shifter off over Winter and recently reinstalled it.  I can't get it
to shift into reverse.  For reverse, you put it in neutral, push it hard
to the left and then up.  The problem is getting it all the way to the left -
it gets almost there, but just does not want to go.  I can grab the linkage
by hand and put it into reverse.  There is nothing wrong with the trans.
Last season reverse worked okay, but it wasn't easy to get - you had to shove
it over rather hard.

I called Hurst/Mr. Gasket and they were zero help.  They say this is is a
very common problem.  They absolutely refuse to release diagrams of the
internal shifter components.  They say they rebuild them and if they
released the diagagrams, they'd lose that business.  That is an awfully
poor attitude and I'll avoid doing business with them whenever
possible in the future.  (obviously, if I wanted to go into business
rebuilding them, I could simply spend a few hours diagraming the
beast).

I'll tear it apart tonight, but any tips are welcome.

Thanks,

  Brian

---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com

----------
Posted by: emory!pms706.pms.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 06:02:54 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6162
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	I recall reading that brake temps on race cars have been measured in
the 1500F region.  This was in an article about Courvoisier's water-cooled
rotors, which didn't exceed 300F under the same conditions.

	At any rate, it looks like I'm going to end up getting a new rotor.
Someone mentioned that Brembo makes a high quality product.  Does anyone have
any manufacturing details?  Anyone know of a company that makes stress-relieved
rotors for motorcycles?  I'd like this to be a "fix it once, fix it
permanently" type of repair, so I'm willing to spend a few extra $$$.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 06:08:53 1993
Subject: Corvair list
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6163
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Just a copy of the once in a while notice that, yes, there is a Corvair e-mail 
discussion list.  Not just for concours types, neither, racers are welcome.  
Send requests to:

corvair-request@shadow.mitre.org

------
Bryan Blackwell bryan@mitre.org (703) 883 7329

'65 Corvair, '66 E-type, '69 Road Runner
"Yeah, it's nice, but it needs a little more power"
------

----------
Posted by: "Bryan Blackwell"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 11:47:56 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6164
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
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I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
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John
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----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 14:39:03 1993
Subject: Re:  Hurst shifter problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6165
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 If it makes it past the lockout, but just doesn't perform the function,
I'd say it's a linkage adjustment problem. Put it "into" the trouble gear
observing what the little levers on the case are doing, and assume they
need to be doing just a little more of it; loosen the lock bolts and move
the levers in the proper direction until you feel they're into position
for that gear selection and retighten the locks. Now see if one of the
others got messed up.

 If it won't make it past the lockout it's probably internal wear/slop.

 If you disconnect the linkage entirely you can separate the two
possibilities (except for effects relating to binding under load).

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 14:51:51 1993
Subject: Re: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6166
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




> > 
> >  The narrow rods came in the 307, 305, and all late model (mid '80s up)
> > 350s, including the LT-1.  I don't think the wide beam rod is being used
> > in production engines now.


> Are you talking about the new LT-1 or the original?
> The original LT-1 came with the indestructible (well, pretty much anyway
> ;-) Pink rods.

> I don't know what the new LT-1 uses for rods, as a matter of fact
> about the only thing that I know for sure about the new engine
> is that I sure wish they had named it something else. ;-)

Actualy, they did!!!!  The LT-1 was produced in 1970(370HP gross), 
1971(350HP gross), and 1973(255HP net).  The engine you are speaking of is 
designated (RPO number) LT1.  Obviously, not much of a difference.

> > Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
> >  
>                       
Ed O'

edo@marcam.com

----------
Posted by: emory!marcam.com!edo (Ed Oriordan)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 15:02:07 1993
Subject: carlist
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6167
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


                      The Automotive Contact List
        created and maintained by: dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us

 I am maintaining a list of automotive vendors and contacts.  This list
was created for my own use.  It is distributed as a public service.
Corrections and submissions are welcome.  Please send them via email to
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Jacksonville AR 72078-0181 USA.

 The newest version of this list may be obtained via internet mail from
Performance Engineering Magazines's mail server.  To retrieve it, send
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following:

             address    (optional)
             send vendors

 The file is about 165 Kb.

 Please don't ask me to send you the list directly; my mailer only
accepts 200 lines at a time, and I send the latest versions to dixie
on floppy.  You can also download the list via modem at The Courts of
Chaos BBS, (501)985-0059 as CARLIST.LZH.

=======================================================================
can you help me...help me get out of this place?...slow sedation...
ain't my style, ain't my pace...giving me a number...NINE, SEVEN, EIGHT
(Nazareth)               XJ900 TURBO at 15psi          DoD# 978  KotFAQ
=======================================================================
                                                                                                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 15:07:53 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6168
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Subject: welding in the privacy of your own garage

greetings:
  i have a question for those out there who know how to weld.  i
would like to weld some sheetmetal on my nova (trying to avoid
pop rivets and bondo as much as possible), and was wondering how
difficult it is to learn to weld at home?  are there good books
on technique?  what form of welding is most forgiving of a novice?
(mig, tig, torch,.....)  i am an expert at soldering (both pc
boards and plumbing types), but would like some advice before 
taking the plunge on equipment.  the pro's want an arm and a leg 
to do what needs to be done, and i've got a *lot* more time than 
money.  

later,
kc

please note :
  feel free to post any cautions or hints, but please also e-mail 
  them to me, as my site has a slightly sporadic newsfeed.

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 15:12:36 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6169
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 	I recall reading that brake temps on race cars have been measured in
> the 1500F region.  This was in an article about Courvoisier's water-cooled
> rotors, which didn't exceed 300F under the same conditions.
> 
> 	At any rate, it looks like I'm going to end up getting a new rotor.
> Someone mentioned that Brembo makes a high quality product.  Does anyone have
> any manufacturing details?  Anyone know of a company that makes stress-relieved
> rotors for motorcycles?  I'd like this to be a "fix it once, fix it
> permanently" type of repair, so I'm willing to spend a few extra $$$.

I had a good machinist drill a stock Harley rotor, and it was never the same
either in stopping power or in balance and ability to hold up....ie wasted money

Girling used to make fully ventilated rotors, dual puck calipers and liquid
cooled stuff... I had used them on a pretty trick Harley and they worked 
VERY well, and held up extremely well....  Don't know of a "dealer" off hand
though

dave


--
Dave Dabay       Telecommunications Engineer Supervisor      KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu

----------
Posted by: dave dabay 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 15:17:16 1993
Subject: Re: Hurst shifter problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6170
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a Hurst Competition Plus shifter on a Ford toploader.  I pulled
> the shifter off over Winter and recently reinstalled it.  I can't get it
> to shift into reverse.  For reverse, you put it in neutral, push it hard
> to the left and then up.  The problem is getting it all the way to the left -
> it gets almost there, but just does not want to go.  I can grab the linkage
> by hand and put it into reverse.  There is nothing wrong with the trans.
> Last season reverse worked okay, but it wasn't easy to get - you had to shove
> it over rather hard.

Sounds like the lever is not alligned.....at the base of the shifter is a small
hole that you can stick a 1/4" rod through...when all the levers are in
"neutral" you could slide a rod through......if a lever is out of line tehn
you can't passs thru...

this often happens by turning teh tranny side of the lever "upside down"

Install the shifter "in neutral" and then adjust the rods to seat properly
on the shift forks ( some toploader ford experts may want to take it
from here on)

good luck

dave


--
Dave Dabay       Telecommunications Engineer Supervisor      KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu

----------
Posted by: dave dabay 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 18:43:10 1993
Subject: Ford Harmonic Balancers... All created equall?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6171
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

***WARNING: non power-tweak question alert!***

I've got a 400 cuber (390?) in a '79 bronco.  Not being a ford expert, the
harmonic balancer took a crap and I'm trying to get the thing
back on the road.  Question is:  Will a DIZE-6316-AB directly replace
a 6316?

Thanx,

--DAVE (johnson@wrs.com)

***We now resume with your regular broadcast schedule.***

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 19:42:40 1993
Subject: Re: GM Flywheel ID (?)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6172
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> As far as I remember practically all Chevrolets come with
-> 168 tooth flywheels (at least in the 1960's and 70's). The

 Beware of L-body and some very low-po midsize cars, which came with a
smaller-than-153-tooth flywheel.  We ran into that with the V8 Monza.
Of course, practically everything on the Monza was weird-Alice.

 Chevy interchangeability?  The V8 Monza engines had:

        special block  (dipstick location)
        special intake (oddball alternator bracket)
        special water pump  (short)
        special exhaust manifolds (up on the left, down on the right)
        special motor mounts  (to mate to L-body brackets)
        special oil pan  (to clear K-member)

 The manual trans bellhousings were also weird - besides the small
diameter for the miniature flywheel and clutch, they shaved off two
mounting bolt locations for no reason I could see.  They certainly
weren't bothering anything.

 The really, really weird part was, you could chuck all the special
Monza stuff except for the pan and manifolds, and it'd all clear.
The V8s had special K-members, and if they'd adjusted things another 3/4
inch or so, a standard Chevelle pan would've fit.  But GM has never
cared to re-use anything old if they could justify designing something
almost the same, but different.

 Oh, and Monza transmissions were special, too.  The tailhousings had to
have the mounting stuff for the torque arm rear suspension.
                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 19:50:08 1993
Subject: Re: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6173
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> >  The narrow rods came in the 307, 305, and all late model (mid '80s
-> up) > 350s, including the LT-1.  I don't think the wide beam rod is
-> being used > in production engines now.

> Are you talking about the new LT-1 or the original?

I don't know of any old-type LT-1s made in the '80s.  I had the
impression the last original LT-1s were build in the early '70s.
                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 19:53:32 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6174
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->      I recall reading that brake temps on race cars have been
-> measured in the 1500F region.  This was in an article about
-> Courvoisier's water-cooled rotors, which didn't exceed 300F under the
-> same conditions.

 That 1200 degrees has to go somewhere.  As a rough guess, the brake
radiator would have to be at least the same size as the engine radiator.


-> any manufacturing details?  Anyone know of a company that makes
-> stress-relieved rotors for motorcycles?  I'd like this to be a "fix
-> it once

 Try Buell.  If you can't find them in one of the bike mags, try
rec.motorcycles.  I don't know how their prices compare to Brembo, but
at least if you don't like the part you can call them up and abuse them
in English.  
                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 19:59:33 1993
Subject: Re:  No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6175
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I am no expert welder, but I have some of the same thoughts and problems.

I have soldered quite a bit, brazed some, stick welded, and MIG welded.

With a good machine, and good clean steel, MIG welding is a bit more difficult
than soldering.  With one of those cheap buzz boxes, welding can be very hard.
Do not buy a cheap welder to learn on.

Keep the steel clean, and get one of those Miller ( blue box? ) or other 
brand name ( red box? ), more than a $1000, spool fed machines with good 
quality internals, and in my experience you will be welding well withing 
an hour.  

I have welded trailer hitches, roll bars, brackets, etc. with about 10
minutes training, and about 100 linear feet of weld practice.

I have left out of this not much of the IMPORTANT discussion about heat
distortion and metals.  I assume you understand some of the basic welding
techniques to avoid those.

In sum, read a bit about welding, buy a good machine, and it is easy to make
servicable welds.  

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704
     extra line in my .rsig

[Absolutely.  Having been in the welding hardware business and formerly
a certified welder, I can back that statement 100%.  For doing body work,
the stitch feature on a MIG is very valuable.  This is a mode of operation 
where power and wire feed are turned on and off.  This lets you move the 
gun in a smooth motion while stitching the thin material in place.  While
one CAN weld sheetmetal without stitch, it is sooooo much easier with it.
After having tried some of these little K-mart Special MIG boxes, if I
couldn't afford a good one, I'd just farm out the work.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 20:04:25 1993
Subject: Re: "welding in the privacy of your own garage"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6176
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I've found the easiest way to learn how to weld is with a MIG welder.  It's
super easy to make sloppy looking welds and not much harder to make really
nice looking beads.  I found it much easier than welding with a stick, and
easier than brazing.  I got a 110 amp MIG welder that runs off of 120VAC with
a 30amp breaker.  I read a book I'd borrowed from the library and talked to a
real welder to get some tips and pointers.  

I found the easiest thing to weld with it is ~ 1/8" steel plate, angles, and
tubing.  It's a little harder to do thick stuff like 1/4" --> 3/8" but it's
possible and I've done it.  With a small welder like mine, if you want to
weld something 1/4" thick you need to do a lot of weld prep:  grind down the
ends that fit together so that it creates a tight fit with a "v" groove that
you fill with bead.  For the thick stuff, you need to weld it from both sides
to get deep enough penetration.  1/8" is no sweat!  

For sheet metal, it's a little trickier.  You have to experiment with the
power and feed rates.  You have to work fast so you won't get it too hot and
blow a hole through it.  MIG welding is one of the best ways to weld sheet
metal because the heat is localized giving it less chance to warp the sheet
metal.  If you're welding a disc into a hole to weld it shut, tack it in,
then weld up the seam in several passes -- allowing it to cool in between. 
This keeps the sheet metal panel from warping.

I'm no big expert, but here's a few pointers that helped me out a lot:

	Get a tub of goo to dip the MIG welder tip into while it's hot.  I
don't know what it's called, but it keeps the weld splatter from sticking
inside the nozzle of the welder.  

	Clean (grind, scrub, wire brush etc.) the steel before you start
welding.  Rust, grease, paint, and dirt make the bead splatter, spit, bubble
and wind up giving you a weak, porous weld.

	Wire brush the slag off as soon as you finish the bead (while it's
still hot).  

	Always wire brush the end of a bead that you're going to continue
welding over if you want a nice continuous looking bead.

	Always cut off the excess wire and ball hanging out the welder gun
with some dikes before starting the next bead (to get to some fresh wire).

	Whenever possible, do the weld horizontally.

	Get a book that shows you how to hold your hand, the proper
techniques for stitching the weld etc.

	Work where there is NO drafts of air.  The wind blows the argon out
of the way which causes the weld to spatter all over the place.  Also, cold
wind on a freshly welded bead can cause it to get brittle and crack.

	If you have to work outdoors or in a drafty place, put up cardboard
or plywood or something to cut down the draft, also turn up the flow of gas.

	Get some heavy duty welders gloves, a good mask, wear long sleave
cotton shirt and levis.  The cotton burns, but it's easy to pat it out. 
Polyester or acrylic clothes can go up like a bonfire.  As soon as you finish
a bead, check to make sure you haven't caught anything on fire.  I burned a
hole 3" wide in my pants -- it's a funny feeling to look down and see your
groin on fire, luckily I patted it out just in time.  Also, be aware that the
bright light from the arc can give you severe sunburn.  I got really bad
sunburn under my chin and on my chest and arms once after an afternoon of
welding. 

	I've worked mainly with mild steel, but I've also tried welding
stainless steel using stainless steel wire.  It needs more current and it
makes a more lumpy looking bead.  I've heard you can MIG weld aluminum, but a
friend of mine at work said that you shouldn't try it with a cheapo MIG
welder.  He said you need a special teflon-lined cable for aluminum.

	Have fun, it sure beats paying someone an arm and a leg when you can
do it yourself.  I've had my welder for about three years and it's paid off
for itself multiple times over.  With a little practice you can make nice,
strong welds that you can be proud of.

	Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 21:40:12 1993
Subject: Re: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6177
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>> -> I have the "Pink Rods" in my '70 Corvette 350, so I know about those,
>> -> but are all the others roughly the same?
>> 
>> 
>>  The narrow rods came in the 307, 305, and all late model (mid '80s up)
>> 350s, including the LT-1.  I don't think the wide beam rod is being used
>> in production engines now.
>

I don't think so either - they may be using cast iron rods in some of these 
low reving motors

>
>Are you talking about the new LT-1 or the original?
>The original LT-1 came with the indestructible (well, pretty much anyway
>;-) Pink rods.

Pink Rod is the generic Chevy name for high performance connecting rods.  
Origionally this ment a normal steel, wide beam connect rod that was hand 
picked from the rest, heat treated, and maybe even shot peened.  The 
standard steel rod is almost as strong and can be machined etc to the same 
specs.

Now you can buy better "pink rods"  Basically they're big block style 
forgings (7/16 bolts and really big beams)  I think there are versions using 
different steels and screw type rod bolts as compared to rod bolt + nut 
configurations.  Check the chevy HP parts catalog (Power Manual?) for 
details.

Dirk


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 21:44:48 1993
Subject: Computer Chip Data
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6178
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a friend who is trying to modify data in his computer chip
for better performance. I thought someone on this list might have
gone through this before. Here is his question as he wrote it.
I will pass any responses on to him. Thanks in advance.

Subject: GM engine computer chip details

I have a computer chip from a 1990 Chevy 454. Reading out and changing
the data is straightforward. But can anyone explain the meaning of
these 1s and 0s in terms of engine operation? bruce roe  


John Sochacki

----------
Posted by: emory!ihlpb.att.com!wizski
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 21:50:08 1993
Subject: RE: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6179
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>greetings:
>  i have a question for those out there who know how to weld.

I learned at a Vocational -Tech high school.  They offered evening courses for 
adults - sort of a craft type course - 2 days a week for something liek 8 weeks.  
 I learned Gas, Arc, and touched on Mig Welding and Gas cutting.  Well worth the 
$40 or so.  Unfortunately budgets cuts kill the program locally.

The instructor was a professional instructer and his assistant was a professional 
welder - could run a bead like a machine - absolutely perfect.  This course was 
just enough to make me dangerous.  I also met the owner of a local welding supply 
company who gave me his business card and said he'd sell me a set of Victor 
Torches for cost.  I was in high school and didn't have teh money to spare....

>would like to weld some sheetmetal on my nova (trying to avoid
>pop rivets and bondo as much as possible), and was wondering how
>difficult it is to learn to weld at home?  are there good books
>on technique?  what form of welding is most forgiving of a novice?

Technique has to be learned - practice on scrap metal!!!!!

>(mig, tig, torch,.....)  i am an expert at soldering (both pc

Mig is easist and the only way for body work - maybe stich welders work as well.
Tig is expensive!
Heli-arc requires one hell of a technique to do sheet metal - only the pros
Gas is an art in itself - rather than one thing to worry about you need to watch 
the torch and the filler rod!

Find a course nothing beats hands on - at least to get you going.


Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 21:56:24 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6180
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>how difficult it is to learn to weld at home?  are there good books
>on technique?

  Excellent question, one which I am also VERY interested in.  So please
pass anything on to "rlr@bbt.com" thanks.

  Community colleges are great sources for cheap courses (hey, it rimes ;),
unfortunately the only one around here that offers welding is ~50 miles
away.  Plus I don't live around my old man who never had the time to teach
me welding in the first place.

  I, like "kking," am more than willing to scrounge junk metal to practice
on before tearing into my Mustangs.  It would be nice if I had a textbook
or technique manual around to pass on little tips and tricks.

  My welding needs are primarily automotive, i.e. sheet metal and some
assembly.  I would imagine that MIG and oxy/acetylene rigs are most common
in the home workshop.

  Oh yeah, I suck at soldering.  Which is why I'm in software ;) .

  Ron "Clueless Yutz" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  1 22:00:16 1993
Subject: thunderbird
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6181
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I've got an 87 t-bird and i;m about ready to mod it out a little...

so, can anyone recommend an engine they *KNOW* will fit?  I was hoping it
will take a 351, but i'm not terrible sure... i know they put 302's in no
problem...




----------
Posted by: Met Razal 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 11:29:05 1993
Subject: Re: "welding in the privacy of your own garage"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6182
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Greetings!

I would like to add that an important resource overlooked in many communities 
are the local junior colleges and technical schools. Many of these offer 
welding classes that range from beginner to certification.

An important part of the beginner class is the instructor who usually has 
many years of welding experience. The instuctor's guiding hand and eye can 
save many hours of experimentation and trying to get the equipment set up 
correctly.

Many of the classes are loosely structured so that after a few weeks, a 
student can bring in something to work on. This depends on the school and the 
instructor. Where I took some classes in California, the teacher just wanted 
to know what it was, what you were going to do to it and to make sure that 
there was no gas tank attached. (Liability and insurance reasons)

Sample (simple) projects include hood scoops, bracing, lamp stands, anvils, 
intrumentation consoles, brackets, headers, exhaust parts,repairs, etc.

This also gives you the opportunity to look over and work with different types 
of equipment and welding processes without sales pressure. Try before you, 
just like shareware.

Don't overlook this You have probably already paid partially for this through 
local taxes and fees. 

Kevin Martinez 
lps@rahul.net

----------
Posted by: Kevin Martinez 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 11:33:48 1993
Subject: Propane Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6183
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

It occurred to me that one way to build interesting and legal late 
model cars might be to use alternative fuels.  A few questions spring
to mind:
(1) Has anybody out there actually done a propane changeover on a
gas engine and how has it worked out.
(2) What exactly are the current California smog rulings on propane cars.

I seem to remember that propane was exempt from smog checks at one time
but has since move into the realm of bi-yearly inspections. Does this
imply that propane-powered cars must pass visual inspection?  My main
thrust here is to ferret out the legality of early big-block to late
model car swaps.  Off hand it makes no sense to inspect alternative
fuel cars, but I admit that the federal government may well require this
sort of thing.

Regards

Phil


----------
Posted by: emory!netcom.com!preston (Philip Preston)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 11:39:29 1993
Subject: reminder
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6184
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

could anyone refresh my memory and tell me which mid 70's Corvette had
(optional?) a 500 CiD in it (8 litre i think)?




----------
Posted by: Met Razal 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 11:44:47 1993
Subject: Re: "welding in the privacy of your own garage"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6185
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	Like he said wind is a bad thing. It blows the gas away and the
wire burns up.  You do need ventilation though.  The gas can give you a
headache and the heat will realy tire you out makeing it harder to do a
good job.  Tig welding is better but I don't know anyone that uses it for
body work since migging is so much easier and works just fine if you get
good penitration.  If you do get a good Miller (blue) or Lincon (red) wleder
get one that can be upgraded to a tig.  It shouldn't cost anymore.
Craftsman sells buzz boxs but I don't know if their prices are better than
a real welding stores would be.  I know the saleman wont be as knowledgeble.

Good luck

P.S. there are a couple of good how to vidios out there and the tech
school classes are cheap and helpfull.

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 13:56:00 1993
Subject: Re: Computer Chip Data
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6186
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I have a computer chip from a 1990 Chevy 454. Reading out and changing
>the data is straightforward. But can anyone explain the meaning of
>these 1s and 0s in terms of engine operation? bruce roe 

	Well first you need to know what processor GM uses to control the
454. Next you need to dissassemble the machine code to assembly. After that
you can determine which part of the code is a "defined byte". Look up tables
are stored as defined bytes in the code. A simplified example would be:

	Given a specific engine temp, RPM, incoming airflow, O2 reading etc 
etc, the processor will look at a specific address and read the DB for the
amount of fuel required.

	This is a very basic example as I'm not an expert on the subject.

	More than just the code, you need an understanding of the hardware
in order to start modifing the DBs. You can't take the plug and chug
approach, you could do more damage than good.

	I freind of mine wrote an HC11 disassembler. I used it to disassemble
the PROM from a VW Corrado G60. After looking at the code, I realized that I
needed a schematic for the ECU to determine what code was measuring what, and
when. I also looked at the code from some hi-po PROMs for the G60 and did some
comparisons between stock and the modified versions. The actual instuctions
were identical. The only difference was in the DBs.

	I basically gave up on this project after realizing how much work and 
time it was going to take to make modifications safely. I didn't want to blow
up my freinds new VW.

	He ended up using the P-CHIP with the smaller supercharger pully and
a higher fuel pressure regulator. The kit claims 190hp, and after driving it,
I beleive it.

	Just my experience with the subject.

	Pete
 

[The GM processor is a bit different.  I have the source code listings
and system description for one of GM's ECUs so I can speak with
a bit of authority.  Each ECU is different so the addresses are
different for different ECUs.  The "calpack" rom that everyone 
changes contains only the "maps" or calibration data tables.  For this 
particular controller, one of the more complex since it controls everything 
from the turbo wastegate to the lockup torque converter to the cooling fan, the
Calpack contains well over 100 tables.  Everything is table-driven.  Almost
nothing is done algorithmically.  One way to figure out the Calpack is
to connect a logic analyzer to the prom and with the ECU on the bench
wtih carefully controlled inputs, observe what addresses are being addressed
by the processor.  As one parameter is carefully varied, say, MAP,
an address will be observed to move.  It is then pretty easy to map out the
range of the table.  Most of the tables are two dimentional, though the 
primary fuel map is typically 3 dimentional, relating MAP or MAF and engine
speed to fuel quantity.  You likely won't be able to decipher the whole
Calpack this way but you should be able to figure out where the basic mixture
and advance maps (and boost as appropriate) are.

I'll report on how well this works in a few weeks.  I'm about to assault
the ECU ROM from a mitsubishi 3000 GT/Dodge Stealth for a customer.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 14:05:45 1993
Subject: Pontiac 400 Problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6187
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



	I just finished putting together a Pontiac 400 and I am having one
major problem.  I cannot get oil to flow to the passenger side cylinder head. 
No oil squirts out of the pushrods, the lifters don't even pump up on the
passenger side.  The driver's side works just fine.  The motor is a 4-bolt main
Ram Air IV 400 block with Ram Air III casting number "12" heads.  It has a Ram
Air IV oil pump rated at 60-65 psi, which pumps 20w-50 oil.  When we first
started the motor we used 10w-40 oil, but it boiled it, so we switched to
20w-50.  The engine runs at about 190 degrees Fahrenheit never getting above
200 degrees.  When the engine is warm it has oil pressure is about 20 psi at
idle.  As soon as you touch the gas pedal the pressure jumps up to about 60 psi
instantly, but still no oil to the passenger side.  My friends and I cannot
figure out what is wrong with this motor.  Any suggestions would be much
appreciated.

				Thanks for your time,

				    Steve Nove

----------
Posted by: emory!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v127klmr (Steven E Nove)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 14:12:19 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6188
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>  That 1200 degrees has to go somewhere.  As a rough guess, the brake
> radiator would have to be at least the same size as the engine radiator.

No - the engine generates lots of waste heat (more than 50% of its output,
as I recall), and while a lot of that goes out the exhaust, much of the
engine's useful energy output is expended fighting rolling and wind resistance,
and a fair amount of energy is scrubbed off in turns. So the amount of actual
heat to be dissipated by the brakes is pretty small by comparison. I would
guess more in the 1/4 to 1/6 range relative to the engine radiator. 


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 15:40:54 1993
Subject: Olds 455 questions / partial repost
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6189
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


This may have been asked before here as part of the previous post, but, the 
original I sent has appeared with the wrong subject attached (how I don't 
know)...

What I am wondering is the following:

1.  I have an opportunity to purchase a 1976 Olds 455 Engine and the T400 
Hydro attached to it.  Does anyone have an idea as to what a fair price 
would be?  

2.  The aforementioned engine is more of a torque monster than a HP 
producer (though in each successive year both declined), it this more a 
function of intake mainfold or the value set up (or possibly other 
designs)?  

3.  What is the availibility of parts for this engine and does it 
interchange with any others?

Thanks again, and my appologies to those who have already seen this and 
replied.

SJRD

----------
Posted by: emory!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!bphdarcy (Sean J. Roc D'Arcy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 15:45:26 1993
Subject: Re: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6190
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I don't think so either - they may be using cast iron rods in some of
-> these low reving motors

 According to the Chevy Power manual, ALL Chevy rods - four, six, and
eight cylinder - are forged.  Period.

 Of course, a poor forging ain't gonna be better than a good casting.
You pays your money and makes your choice.
                                                                                                                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 15:49:47 1993
Subject: thunderbird
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6191
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> so, can anyone recommend an engine they *KNOW* will fit?  I was
-> hoping it will take a 351, but i'm not terrible sure... i know they
-> put 302's in no problem...

 The 351 Windsor will fit.  You'll need the rear sump oil pan and pickup
from a late Lincoln, V8 engine mounts, and that's about it.
                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 16:00:09 1993
Subject: Re: "welding in the privacy of your own garage"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6192
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 11:42:57 1993
Date: Thu, 2 Sep 93 03:19 EDT
Subject: Re: "welding in the privacy of your own garage"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>  Like he said wind is a bad thing. It blows the gas away and the
> wire burns up.  You do need ventilation though.  The gas can give you a
> headache and the heat will realy tire you out makeing it harder to do a
> good job.  Tig welding is better but I don't know anyone that uses it for
> body work since migging is so much easier and works just fine if you get
> good penitration.  If you do get a good Miller (blue) or Lincon (red) wleder
> get one that can be upgraded to a tig.  It shouldn't cost anymore.
> Craftsman sells buzz boxs but I don't know if their prices are better than
> a real welding stores would be.  I know the saleman wont be as knowledgeble.

 You can erect or attach wind screens to deflect air currents. I like to
weld outside when possible because the sunlight makes the workpiece
visible when the arc's off. It takes a lot of light to see through #8
glass.

 TIG is not uniformly "better" than MIG. Its superiority lies in precise
control, low heat and most importantly unlimited metallurgy choices for
filler material. MIG limits you to available wire stocks, which unless you
want mild steel, generic stainless (3080) or aluminum range from expensive
to impossible to obtain. MIG also provides low process heat and also 
relieves the operator of the need to poke a rod. You don't want to heat and
dab your way along a fender seam. You want continuous, fast low-heat 
metal deposition. 

 I've never seen a wire feed welder that is convertable to TIG. I've seen
stationary all-in-one units. The power supply characteristics of the two
are completely different. MIG wants a DC constant voltage supply, a good
TIG will have both DC and AC constant-current type supplies along with
a high frequency box for AC (aluminum, mostly) use. About all that
is common to these two is the gas flow. A different torch is used. You'd
be better off to get a torch and a Froggy regulator and hook it to a
standard DC buzz box.

 TIG is used more for structural work with demanding mechanical or
cosmetic requirements. It's a waste of effort for automotive sheet metal
work.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 18:52:45 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6193
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	The biggest difrence btween a 1500 degree cylder haed and a 1500
degree brake rotor is mass.  It the smiming pool vrs a cold lemonade idea.
the pool maybe 30 degree's hotter but it cools you of better because it
removes more heat. so the difrence in cooling capicites would be alot
bigger then 1/6th.
Henry

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 19:01:50 1993
Subject: RE: thunderbird
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6194
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I've got an 87 t-bird...so, can anyone recommend an engine they *KNOW* 
will fit?  I was hoping it
>will take a 351, but i'm not terrible sure... i know they put 302's in 
no problem...

Well, I've got some magazines at home...one Late T-bird has a 460, 
another has a SOHC 427. So, I *know* that these will fit.

The 5.0 is a factory option. I can recommend the Ford 5.8 (351). It's 
almost identical to the 5.0 (several minor differences). There are many 
T-birds running around with the 5.8, to judge by the magazines. Total 
Performance(313-468-3673) , Advanced Adaptors (805-238-7000), and  
Kaufmann are some who makes kits. Kaufmann (213-803-5531)markets a 460 
adaptor kit "no cutting or welding required" (requires C-6 transmission).

Do it ! My friend Steve just put a 5.8 in his Capri (same Fox body 
platform). He's grinning now !

----------
Posted by: David Gonzales (General) 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 19:09:19 1993
Subject: Re: thunderbird 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6195
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Thu, 2 Sep 93 14:28 EDT
> From:  emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
> 
>
>-> so, can anyone recommend an engine they *KNOW* will fit?  I was
>-> hoping it will take a 351, but i'm not terrible sure... i know they
>-> put 302's in no problem...

> The 351 Windsor will fit.  You'll need the rear sump oil pan and pickup
>from a late Lincoln, V8 engine mounts, and that's about it.
>                     

But will the hood close :-)?  Up until the new "thin" front headlights
and the more sloped hood ('91 or '92, I don't remember) the 302 would
_barely_ fit, and a new plenum was used on the FI engines.  Since the
new style front end and hood, you have to cut a hole in the hood to
clear the 302 plenum.

I don't recall the model year of the original car, but I don't think
is was a '90s model, so I know a 302 can be made to fit.  I would not
bet on the 351, unless it had some very low performance intake hacks
(in which case you are better off with the 302), or you are ready to
cut a hole in the hood.


	-- Dan


----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 19:16:18 1993
Subject: Propane Question (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6196
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> It occurred to me that one way to build interesting and legal late 
> model cars might be to use alternative fuels.  A few questions spring
> to mind:
> (1) Has anybody out there actually done a propane changeover on a
> gas engine and how has it worked out.
> (2) What exactly are the current California smog rulings on propane cars.
> 
> I seem to remember that propane was exempt from smog checks at one time
> but has since move into the realm of bi-yearly inspections. Does this
> imply that propane-powered cars must pass visual inspection?  My main
> thrust here is to ferret out the legality of early big-block to late
> model car swaps.  Off hand it makes no sense to inspect alternative
> fuel cars, but I admit that the federal government may well require this
> sort of thing.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Phil
> Posted by: emory!netcom.com!preston (Philip Preston)

Get a copy of Jay Storer's book Propane Conversions($17, SA books).  He has
done several conversions and will get you going in the right direction.
Generally, you can make a duel fuel (gasoline/propane) or a straight
propane rebuild conversion.  He lists sources of the parts you'll need
and tells you how to install them.  Turbos work well with propane.  Since
propane burns more cleanly than gasoline, any straight propane engine
can be expected to last close to a million miles, but the heads will
need a valve job two or three times during that time.  Pollution is not
a problem with propane.
tom root

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 19:20:44 1993
Subject: Re:  reminder
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6197
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




> could anyone refresh my memory and tell me which mid 70's Corvette had
> (optional?) a 500 CiD in it (8 litre i think)?

None.  The largest engine ever offered in a vette was the 454. which was offered
in  70(LS5 390HP gross 4473 units installed, LS7 460HP gross really never 
made it to production), 71(LS5 365HP gross 5097 units, LS6 425 HP gross 
188 units), 72(LS5 270HP net 3913 units), 73(LS4 275HP net 4412 units).

In 69 2 RPO (regular production order) ZL1s were made which were a complete 
aluminum block and head engine.  It cost $3000, on a base car cost of $4780.95.
I think only one is known to exist today. 

The only 500 cuber I can think of was in the Eldo (Cadilac Eldorado) and I 
don't know the years.  Can you say, TORQUE.


My sources for the vette stuff is "The Genuine Corvette Black Book".

P.S. In case you care, a liter is about 60 CI so a 8 would be about 480CID.
Ed O'

edo@marcam.opl





----------
Posted by: emory!marcam.com!edo (Ed Oriordan)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 19:25:50 1993
Subject: Re: Olds 455 questions / partial repost
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6198
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

For what it's worth:

I paid $500 for a 1979 Chev 454 and T400, which ran (rough).  It was about the
best deal I found around (MN).

It too is a torque machine, which is generally a function of the setup (cam, 
pistons,crank), but I'm no expert.

Paul Olson
olso0106@student.tc.umn.edu	
polson@astro.atk.com		"My opinions are just that.  Thanks."

----------
Posted by: emory!gold.tc.umn.edu!olso0106 (Paul A Olson-1)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 19:31:50 1993
Subject: Propane Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6199
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> (2) What exactly are the current California smog rulings on propane
-> cars.

 The way it looks (from the info packet I got from the CARB) is that
conversion to propane would constitute an unlawful modification of the
emissions-control system, and they'd nail your ass.

 OTOH, I've heard of a lot of propane powered cars out there.  The
CARB's left hand doesn't seem to know what the right hand is doing.
                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 19:38:14 1993
Subject: reminder
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6200
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> could anyone refresh my memory and tell me which mid 70's Corvette
-> had (optional?) a 500 CiD in it (8 litre i think)?

 Simple enough.  The largest engine ever offered was the 454.

 Buick, Pontiac, and Olds offered 455 cubic inch motors in their cars,
and Cadillac had a 472 and a 500.  Chevy has a 502 "crate motor" now,
but it doesn't come standard in any car.
                                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 19:50:50 1993
Subject: It lives!!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6201
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


The supercharged Rx7 lives again!!

I used 88 Turbo rotor housings
85 GSL-SE rotors and seals
Competition oil seal springs
93 oil pressure regulator
93 corner seal springs (massive)
competition oil pump
all other parts are stock 86 GXL

I removed the ball and spring from the eccentric shaft and pressed in
some carb jets.  I also polished up the intake path through the housings.

I get 30psi of oil pressure just from cranking with the starter, about
50 psi at 1300 rpm, and 100psi at 3000 rpm.  This is with about 1.5
hours on the engine.  Hopefully it will drop a little as the engine
wears in.

I changed to an 8psi pulley on the supercharger but try to stay out
of boost untill I get 1000 miles on the engine.  Then I'll try to tune
the projection and change back to the 10 psi pulley.

Later
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 19:53:25 1993
Subject: Re: Computer Chip Data
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6202
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Regarding the deciphering of how GM does what, and Chrysler, too...

Has anybody thought of this?  The Diacom product seems to understand these
boxes rather well, and it runs on a PC.  Why not run a disassembler on the
Diacom software and figure out how it works, thereby learning the structure
of the underlying GM product?  All the information needed must be in the
Diacom software, and there are some decent PC disassemblers out there.

Anybody tried it?  Seems a lot easier than the frontal assault on a ECU.

[as a matter of fact there is a lurker on this list who has written
some code for the PC that will read the GM data stream and display
it in real time.  Hopefully he's writing me an article on the subject :-)
I'll let him stick his head up if he wants the attention.  Disassembling
the Diacom software and figuring out what it means would be a daunting
task.  The reason is, looking only at GM for a moment, the data format
is not uniform between models or even ECU generations.  I'm less familiar
with the Ford EEC-xx but I'd assume it to be at least as bad.

Hmm, with over 300 people on this list (and who knows how many reading
alt.hotrod), looks like we could get some people interested in hacking
the Calpack ROMs and posting the results.  JGD]

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704
     extra line in my .rsig

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  2 20:20:51 1993
Subject: Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6203
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone know the significance of a Chevy forging or casting that has a big
"X" on it?  I have some con rods that have a big "X" on them.  Also, I have a
brand new Chevy crank with a big "X" on it.  I've heard rumors that the "X"
means they're interchangeable with other parts -- that doesn't really mean
much to me because they're interchangeable with or without the "X".

	The con rods are forged, the crank is cast.

Also, what does it mean on a cylinder head casting to have the casting number
followed by an "X"?  My '69 Camaro's heads don't have the "X", but some '72
Chevelle heads I have do.

I hope the "X" doesn't mean made in Mexico.  I know there are some blocks
around with hecho en Mexico cast in them.  They're supposed to be made of
inferior quality steel and not well suited to hi performance applications.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 09:20:56 1993
Subject: RE: Propane Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6204
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>It occurred to me that one way to build interesting and legal 
>late 
>model cars might be to use alternative fuels.  A few questions 
>spring
>to mind:
>(1) Has anybody out there actually done a propane changeover 
>on a
>gas engine and how has it worked out.
>(2) What exactly are the current California smog rulings on 
>propane cars.


In Maryland - alternative fuels including deasel exempts you 
from smog checks.

I've thought of alky as an alternative fuel - If you're a farmer 
you can get a license to distil it for fuel use only.  In 
theory its about $.40 a gallon and you can run 13.0:1 
compression.  It requires specialize fuel systems - but there 
seems to be enough parts available (fuel tanks, pumps, filters, 
and even carbs).

Dirk

[But since alky requires almost twice the volume of gasoline, the cost
isn't any cheaper.  Probably more expensive after you add in the fuel 
tax which you still have to pay.  Then you have to deal with hard to 
impossible cold starting (where cold is defined as anything less than
balmy), icing of the manifolding, corrosion and much more rapidly
contaminated oil.  Not a real good deal.  Plus I have serious doubts
anyone could brew and distill the stuff in individual quantities for 
$0.40/gal.  I've run alky in race bikes, cars and even a racing 
chain saw.  It's almost too much hassle for racing.  No thanks at
all for the street.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 09:26:41 1993
Subject: RE: reminder
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6205
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>could anyone refresh my memory and tell me which mid 70's 
>Corvette had
>(optional?) a 500 CiD in it (8 litre i think)?

The largest automotive engine that chevy produced is the 454 or 
7.4 litres.  Cadallac had a 500 cu in ('72 I think).  There are 
plenty of aftermarket sources to increase the distplacement of 
the Chevy big-block up tp 700 cu. in. money willing.

Dirk



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 09:32:26 1993
Subject: Re: Pontiac 400 Problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6206
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In wiz.hotrod article  you wrote:
> 

> 

> 	I just finished putting together a Pontiac 400 and I am  
having one
> major problem.  I cannot get oil to flow to the passenger side  
cylinder head. 

> No oil squirts out of the pushrods, the lifters don't even pump up  
on the
> passenger side. > 

> 				    Steve Nove
> 

> ----------
> Posted by: emory!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v127klmr (Steven E Nove)

--

Steve,

You should have about 45 psi on a ram air HD pump at 900-1000RPM.
 I would venture to guess that when you had the motor rebuilt your  
handy machinist was very good and removed all the restrictors at both  
ends of the oil galleries. There are two on the front of the block on  
each side of the camshaft area, and three on the back of the block.  
here's the trick. There is a hidden one on the back side of block  
underneath the first one. If you had the motor on the stand with the  
distributor out and had pulled the passenger side oil plug you would  
see a another plug behind it against the far wall of the distributor  
column. This plug should have a small diameter hole in it to provide  
oiling for the cam to distributor gear. HD motors used the high  
pressure pumps and larger holes in the cam oiling plug. 


The point here is that in order to get at the galleries to clean them  
before and after boring and machining, machinists will remove this  
plug. New builders of pontiacs will not know where the plug goes  
since they didn't remove it, or your machinist is a smallblock guy  
and forgot about it during the rebuild. Without this plug your  
lifters will never get the pressure they need to pump up all the way  
and you won't see any oil come out of the pushrods at the rocker  
level. Pull the distributor and get a small flashlight and and peer  
down your distributor hole looking towards the forward portion of the  
block. No plug no pressure. bad deal.

The bad news is that you have to disconnect the tranny to get access  
to install the plug. Pull the motor and reinstall the plug. This plug  
is pipe thread style so you should be able to purchase it at a  
hardware store. REMEMBER to have a hole drilled the proper size in  
the plug or you won't get any oil to your cam gear and distributor  
gear. Grinding down a cheap 3/8 3inch extension will give you the  
proper tool to crank the plug into the block. Buy two plugs and tap  
the outer hole and dump the old water passage style press units. This  
is your oil system here! Bullet proof is the word. HO Racing out of  
LA is good place for info on 400 builds and power if you are not  
familiar with tips, tricks, and other cool things. Give them a call  
if you haven't already.

You also might want to debur your rocker arm oil holes while you have  
the engine out. This really helps keep the oil inside the motor when  
ajusting the lash on your motor. Another tip is to clean up the older  
steel valve covers and then cut 1/3 of the top off so there is a pie  
section out of the top. This lets you adjust the lash on the lifters,  
keep the motor inside the engine and not on your headers. 


It also gives you an excuse to buy those really trick looking chrome  
valve covers you wanted from summit. I would also check the bearings  
on the bottom end while I had the motor out and check for scoring.  
Sounds like you might be okay. Pontiac cranks are pretty darn hard.  
It's just the bearings and the whimpy connecting rods that are the  
bad part. Thanks for not building another chevy and good luck! 



Paul Bleimeyer
Mayo Foundation
Rochester, MN 55905

PS> What are you putting this thing in?

----------
Posted by: emory!mayo.EDU!bleimeyp (Paul Bleimeyer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 09:38:52 1993
Subject: RE: Pontiac 400 Problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6207
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



>	I just finished putting together a Pontiac 400 and I am having one
>major problem.  I cannot get oil to flow to the passenger side cylinder head. 
>No oil squirts out of the pushrods, the lifters don't even pump up on the
>passenger side.  The driver's side works just fine.  The motor is a 4-bolt 
>main
>Ram Air IV 400 block with Ram Air III casting number "12" heads.  It has a 
>Ram
>Air IV oil pump rated at 60-65 psi, which pumps 20w-50 oil.  When we first
>started the motor we used 10w-40 oil, but it boiled it, so we switched to
>20w-50.  The engine runs at about 190 degrees Fahrenheit never getting above
>200 degrees.  When the engine is warm it has oil pressure is about 20 psi at
>idle.  As soon as you touch the gas pedal the pressure jumps up to about 60 
>psi
>instantly, but still no oil to the passenger side.  My friends and I cannot
>figure out what is wrong with this motor.  Any suggestions would be much
>appreciated.
>
>				Thanks for your time,
>
>				    Steve Nove
>

Basically you have an oil galley plugged.  I don't have a block to compare it 
to (just sold my last 455 block) but basically the oiling system goes like 
this:


Oil-pan to pick-up to pump


Pump to filter (passanger side of block) by pressure gauge fitting.

To the galleys ( 3 galleys one for each lifter bank and one for the mains / 
cam bearings)

You may have either blocked off the lifter galley with dirt or perhaps you put 
a plug in one of the galleys to deep. 

You may also have installed a bearing incorectly causing the oil hole to be 
covered - I can't remember exactly how the oil passages go.

I would seriously consider pulling the motor and chassing all the oil 
passagess with a cleaning rod or something - thats a relatively rare block to 
let go.

BTW steel crank in there?  steel rods?  what year block and what happend to 
the RAM Air IV heads?

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 09:44:18 1993
Subject: RE: reminder/500 cid engines
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6208
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>could anyone refresh my memory and tell me which mid 70's Corvette
>had (optional?) a 500 CiD in it (8 litre i think)?

The Cadillac Eldorado did (8.1 liter emblem on the fenders)--but I
never really considered it a _True_ Corvette.

BTW I have a chart listing weights for modern big block engines.
The Cad 500 was a  lightweight, and the heaviest by far was the
Pontiac 455. Is my list incorrect?





----------
Posted by: David Gonzales (General) 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 09:50:23 1993
Subject: Re: thunderbird
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6209
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>...  Since the new style front end and hood, you have to cut
>a hole in the hood to clear the 302 plenum.

Not true...or else how is one can buy a brand new 1993
Thunderbird with a 5.0 in it? The one I looked at did not
have a "hole cut in the hood."

Besides, the original poster didn't say he wanted to use any
specific manifold...he just asked which engines would fit.
Almost anything will fit. After all, Ford squeezed a 5.0 in the
new T-Bird! But to be serious, the 5.0 would be the easiest
V8 swap into a 1987 T-Bird. Ford has already engineered
the 5.0 swap.



----------
Posted by: David Gonzales (General) 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 09:55:10 1993
Subject: RE: Computer Chip Data
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6210
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>All the information needed must be in the Diacom software, and there >are some
decent PC disassemblers out there.

>Anybody tried it?  Seems a lot easier than the frontal assault on a ECU.

I'm not the one John referred to , but looking at DiaCom's code really won't do
much for you. All there s/w does is read the serial bit stream present at the
ALDL connector. What you need to do is get into the maps in the EPROM's. And as
others have pointed out, they are different for each car. The original poster
of this would be much better off talking with Applied Technologies and Research
(ATR) in Roseville CA. They do Hi-Po PROM's for the 454. And would probably
burn anything you want. Since '86 most of us Buick guys have been trying to get
the PROM info for our Grand Nationals. I know of a couple people that do their
own custom PROM's, but they ain't talking. Most of the companies that do custom
PROM's spent hours bit twiddling to come up with their chips. They basically
just reverse engineered them.

Ron

----------
Posted by: "Mellum Ron" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 10:02:06 1993
Subject: Pontiac 400 Problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6211
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> instantly, but still no oil to the passenger side.  My friends and I
-> cannot figure out what is wrong with this motor.  Any suggestions
-> would be much

 According to my Pontiac archives, some Super Duty engines had a plug on
the passenger side lifter gallery.  The plug is down where the
distributor drive is, and has a .030 or so inch hole to oil the
distributor gears, which were weirdball on some of the Super Duty
engines.  Your Ram Air block might have had a similar oiling layout.
I have a note sourced from some of HO's stuff saying the SD plugs are
sometimes left out after hot tanking, causing no oil on the passenger
side lifter gallery.

 Your Ram Air block isn't *supposed* to be like that, but it might be
worth yanking the distributor and feeling around in there.
                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 10:08:53 1993
Subject: Re: MAF (auto) sensor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6212
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


[I made this post to sci.electronics but it got involved enough that
I thought the list might be interested.  JGD]

c2xjcb@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (James Bach) writes:

>In article <1993Aug30.175121.18007@newsgate.sps.mot.com>, mark@wdcwdc.sps.mot.com (Mark Shaw) writes:
>> I noticed you made reference a couple of times to a WOT enrichment to 12:1
>> air-fuel ratio.  I was under the impression that 12:1 was the generally
>> accepted value for a smooth idle until the emissions control era (12:1
>> can produce 5-6% CO).  The optimum ratio in my references (Heywood, Bosch,
>> Fayette) tend to indicate that maximum power is achieved at 13.5:1 air-fuel
>> ratio (which is more like 2-3% CO).  

>All the references I've seen say that "Best Power" is at about 12.0:1,
>+/- a bit; I can't recall exactly, but I think "Best Economy" was at
>about 16:1, but I might be wrong (I'd have to look it up).  I know MY
>car is cal'd at 12:1 for WOT.

"Best power" mixture depends on the engine and the control algorithm.  
Among the factors involved are the combustion chamber turbulence,
chamber squish area, knock sensitivity, cam overlap and a few other things.  
The excess fuel serves to cool the combustion chamber and mute the 
peak combustion temperature - both functions contribute to more power.
I've tuned racing EFI WOT mixtures as rich as 10.75:1 for peak power
but typical street WOT enrichment is around 12:1.  Since most cars
with engines larger than Geo Metros do not need WOT to achieve the EPA
smog cycle speed profiles, the mixture is unregulated and can be set
for whatever the engine needs, subject to CAFE restrictions.  

"Best economy" is kinda undefined for most engines, since the cat requires
exactly stoichiometry (14.7:1 for gas) to work.  The Honda VTEC engine
(lean burn) can go as lean as 22:1 but that's a special case.

>> Now, you have me curious as to why it might be better to run 12:1 for more
>> power?  Like maybe I should offset my baseline mixture so that the WOT
>> switch will create an much richer mixture when it bumps the upper limit.  
>> Does all the other tuning (EGR, automatic ignition advance, multi-point
>> fuel delivery, etc) allow the use of a richer mixture?

>I don't know; I wouldn't mess around with what your manufacturer
>(sounds like non-GM) set-up.

Hmm, do I detect James playing just a bit of I've-got-a-secret?

>> 
>> Seems like that would be hell on the catalytic converter for a prolonged
>> WOT condition (i.e. going up hill).  Does the control strategy back off
>> the mixture, if the condition is prolonged?
>> 
>> Mark

>Yes, it can be hard on a converter.  I can't specifically state what
>our algorithms do other than to say that "long grades" are conditions
>GM calibrators test seriously (so I would trust the converters won't
>be damaged).

Yep, Seems to be I've-got-a-secret.  Fortunately there is a remedy to
that problem - the facts.

First off, let me state that the myth built up in the popular press and
to an extent, here, that these ECUs do all kinds of clever algorithms
is patently false.  These ECUs are little more than ROM-based
database engines, fetching data from a large number of lookup tables.  
A lot of what OEMs do is of little interest to us.  The EPA's method
for measuring emissions and CAFE makes them do some pretty amazing
things to squeak every last bit of clean efficiency out of the engines.
Hell, just the code to determine when to turn on the radiator fan
takes up pages!  We won't notice +- 0.1 MPG but GM's comptroller
WILL if they miss the CAFE targets.  Developing what goes in these
lookup tables is grunt work but not mysterious.  The neat thing about
this stuff is that it works so well.  

Let's look at the basic fuel delivery algorithm used by many Delco ECUs
used in GM vehicles.  For speed-density (where fuel requirements are
infered from manifold pressure and RPM instead of using a MAF), the
equation is:

BPW = BPC*MAPP*T*A/F*VE*F33C*BLM*DFCO*DE*CLT*F77

Where:  (everything labeled "term" is from a lookup table)

BPW = 	Base pulse width in milliseconds
BPC =	Base pulse constant term (table lookup, basic engine air and FI 
		calibration plus EGR calibration)
MAPP=	Manifold absolute pressure term 
T =		Inverse air temperature term
A/F=	Inverse air/fuel ratio term
VE=		volumetric efficiency term
F33C=	Battery voltage compensation (for the effect on FI open/close delay
		and fuel pump delivery)
BLM=	Block Learn Term (what the ECU has learned from the O2 sensor)
DFCO=	Decel Fuel Cutoff Term (when to turn fuel off on decel)
DE=		Decel enleanment term (when to lean instead of cutoff)
CLT=	Closed loop correction term (result of O2 sensor Proportional/
		integral closed loop)
F77=	Turbo boost multiplier (if used)
		
Everything is expressed and calculated in terms of 8 bit unsigned bytes.
None of these terms other than the CLT (as a result of the integral action) 
are time dependent.  That is, none are changed as a result of the passage
of time.  There are some transient terms but they affect such things as
cold start enrichment, throttle tip-in enrichment and so on.  None affect
full power mixture strength.

There are a couple of protective fuel cutoffs designed to protect the 
ENGINE from prolonged high speed operation.  The first one is the High
Engine Speed Cutoff.  This is triggered when the engine has been operating
greater than or equal to the high protective RPM setpoint for longer
than programmed number of seconds.  The second is the High Engine Load
Shutoff that protects the engine from prolonged load.  It is triggered
when the MAP pressure is above the protective setpoint for a programmed
number of seconds.  Either protective trip causes the fuel injector pulse
to be set to zero, shutting off fuel until the trip condition is cleared.

Note that this is to protect the ENGINE and not the cat.  The cat is not
damaged by rich WOT mixtures simply because there is essentially no 
oxygen in the exhaust.  With no oxygen, there is no catalyzed reaction and
with no reaction, there is no heat.  Distinguish this condition from 
misfires where there IS an ample supply of oxygen in the exhaust because
of the failure to fire one or more cylinders.  Indeed, a cat-equipped
engine running on a dyno for an extended period of WOT time will not
heat the cat significantly hotter than the exhaust.  On the other hand,
I have literally melted the cat off an old Pinto rental car by coasting
down a long mountain in 3rd gear, engine at the redline, throttle to the
floor and ignition off. :-)  Was quite a show when that cat finally
slagged :-)

*** Shameless commercial plug follows.

Anyone interested in EFI design and implementation should subscribe to
my magazine "Performance Engineering" (see .sig for free sample info).
The next issue starts a multi-part series on EFI design and
implementation that culminates in a Dallas Semiconductor DS-5000-based
(8052 superset) PC-programmable EFI you can build (and maybe even a
kit).  As with everything I do, full source code is available.  We've
already started a companion series on digital PC- programmable
distributorless ignition.  It also concludes a series on building a
very inexpensive PC-driven electronic fuel injector flowbench for
characterizing fuel injectors.  The current issue is available for $6.00
US/$US7.00 Canadian.  (Foreigners contact me for pricing.)

Oh, in case anyone ever wondered, I never had and hopefully never will
have any businss relation, non-disclosure, etc with GM, Delco, their
contractors, etc.  This information is available, though it takes a bit
of digging.  In answer to the inevitable question "Where do I get this
information", my answer is "Subscribe to PE" :-)

John

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 10:15:44 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6213
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> No - the engine generates lots of waste heat (more than 50% of its
-> output, as I recall), and while a lot of that goes out the exhaust,

   You've been looking at those heat-cycle diagrams again,
ain't-cha?  They make the fundamental misassumption that Otto cycle
engines are heat engines.  The important part of cylinder pressure comes
from the change of liquid fuel to a gas; the heat is a helpful
byproduct.
                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 10:20:26 1993
Subject: Olds 455 questions / partial repost
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6214
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> 2.  The aforementioned engine is more of a torque monster than a HP
-> producer (though in each successive year both declined), it this more
-> a function of intake mainfold or the value set up (or possibly other
-> designs)?

 It's mainly a combination of low compression, smallish ports, and a
LOOONNGGG stroke.  The drag and boat guys wind 'em right on up, though.


-> 3.  What is the availibility of parts for this engine and does it
-> interchange with any others?

 Olds parts interchange is pretty good.  The aftermarket is full of Olds
stuff, and Olds still has their racing program.
                                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 10:25:26 1993
Subject: Re: thunderbird 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6215
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu





On Thu, 2 Sep 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> 
> > Date:  Thu, 2 Sep 93 14:28 EDT
> > From:  emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
> > 
> >
> >-> so, can anyone recommend an engine they *KNOW* will fit?  I was
> >-> hoping it will take a 351, but i'm not terrible sure... i know they
> >-> put 302's in no problem...
> 
> > The 351 Windsor will fit.  You'll need the rear sump oil pan and pickup
> >from a late Lincoln, V8 engine mounts, and that's about it.
> >                     
> 
> But will the hood close :-)?  Up until the new "thin" front headlights
> and the more sloped hood ('91 or '92, I don't remember) the 302 would
> _barely_ fit, and a new plenum was used on the FI engines.  Since the
> new style front end and hood, you have to cut a hole in the hood to
> clear the 302 plenum.
> 
> I don't recall the model year of the original car, but I don't think
> is was a '90s model, so I know a 302 can be made to fit.  I would not
> bet on the 351, unless it had some very low performance intake hacks
> (in which case you are better off with the 302), or you are ready to
> cut a hole in the hood.
> 
> 
> 	-- Dan
> 
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: Dan Malek 
>  
> 
> 

the 1993's have a 302 option.  the birds have a neat-o looking shiny
black-and-silver V8 [NOT 5.0 like a stang] badge on the driver's side
right in front of the door.  no hood modifications.


----------
Posted by: Met Razal 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 10:30:26 1993
Subject: Re: reminder
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6216
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu





On Thu, 2 Sep 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> 
> > could anyone refresh my memory and tell me which mid 70's Corvette had
> > (optional?) a 500 CiD in it (8 litre i think)?
> 
> None.  The largest engine ever offered in a vette was the 454. which was offered
> in  70(LS5 390HP gross 4473 units installed, LS7 460HP gross really never 
> made it to production), 71(LS5 365HP gross 5097 units, LS6 425 HP gross 
> 188 units), 72(LS5 270HP net 3913 units), 73(LS4 275HP net 4412 units).
> 
> 

odd. i _know_ without a doubt i've seen 2 or 3 eight litre 500 cid vettes
around here. only as an option, and only in 1975 i think...



----------
Posted by: Met Razal 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 12:45:33 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-33*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6217
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

Motoworld                             9/03     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (Winston Cup @ Bristol)9/03     6:00-6:30PM      ESPN
DODGE SHELBY, LIME ROCK (T)           9/03     9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Checkered Flag (Winston Cup @ Bristol)9/04     6:30-7:00AM      ESPN
World Of Speed & Beauty (air racing)  9/04     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (CV joints & seals)9/04     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
FIREHAWK/SUPERCAR, WATKINS GLEN (T)   9/04     1:30-2:00PM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                     9/04     2:00-2:30PM      DISC
WINSTON CUP, LOUDON (T)               9/04     2:00-3:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/04     3:30-4:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, DARLINGTON (SD)             9/04     4:00-6:00PM      ESPN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/04     4:00-4:30PM      TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/04     4:30-5:00PM      TNN
IOGP POWERBOAT RACING, KANSAS CITY (T)9/04     5:00-5:30PM      TNN
MotorWeek '93 (BMW 325i ragtop)       9/04     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
INDY LIGHTS, VANCOUVER (T)            9/05     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             9/05     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             9/05     3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/05     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              9/05     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Cory McClenathan)            9/05     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    9/05     10:00-10:30AM    HTS*
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/05     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Cycle World                           9/05     10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/05     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    9/05    11:30AM-12:00PM   HTS*
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           9/05    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, DARLINGTON (L)           9/05     1:00-5:00PM      ESPN
KNOXVILLE NATIONALS, (SPRINT CARS) (T)9/05     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
RaceDay Update w/Pat Patterson (L)    9/05     3:25-3:30PM      TNN
Winners (Cory McClenathan)            9/05     3:30-4:00PM      TNN
NASCAR Shop Talk                      9/05     5:00-5:30PM      ESPN
Shadetree Mechanic (CV joints & seals)9/05     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update w/Pat Patterson (L)    9/05     6:00-6:05PM      TNN
Swamp Buggy Racing                    9/05     6:05-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/05     7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/05     8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           9/05     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      9/05     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              9/05    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/05    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/06     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (air racing)  9/06     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
WINSTON CUP, DARLINGTON (T)           9/06     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/07     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
WINSTON CUP, DARLINGTON (T)           9/07     1:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/08     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Jet Ski Racing (T)                    9/09     1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/09     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IOGP POWERBOAT RACING, AUGUSTA (T)    9/09     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/09     3:30-4:00AM      MTV
NHRA NATIONALS, BRAINERD (T)          9/09     12:00-1:00PM     HTS*
Cycle World                           9/09     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
NASCAR Shop Talk                      9/09     1:30-2:00PM      ESPN
INDY LIGHTS, LOUDON (T)               9/09     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
Motor Sports Hour                     9/09     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
IHRA NATIONALS, SCRIBNER (T)          9/09     2:30-3:30PM      ESPN
Cycle World                           9/09     8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     9/09     9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                9/09     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (L)    9/09    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
SpeedWeek                             9/10     12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
WORLD MOTORCYCLE GP, CZECH REPUBLIC(T)9/10     1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/10     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IOGP POWERBOAT RACING, AUGUSTA (T)    9/10     2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (Winston Cup@Darlington9/10     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Motoworld                             9/10     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, RICHMOND (L)                9/10     7:30-9:30PM      TNN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (L)             9/11     1:00PM           TBS
FORMULA 1, MONZA, ITALY (L)           9/12     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (L)                 9/12     1:00-3:30PM      ESPN
ASA, MADISON INTERNATIONAL SPEEDWAY(L)9/12     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (SD)                9/12     5:00PM           TSN
F1, MONZA OR INDYCAR, M-OHIO (SD)     9/12    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, MID-OHIO (T)              9/13     7:30PM           TSN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (?)                   9/18     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                9/19     12:00PM          TNN
IMSA GTP, PONTIAC (L)                 9/19     1:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, NAZARETH (T)              9/19     5:00PM           TSN
INDYCAR, NAZARETH (T)                 9/20     9:00-11:00PM  ESPN,TSN
SCCA TRANS-AM, WATKINS GLEN (T)       9/22     12:30AM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (L)      9/26     8:50-11:00AM     TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, MARTINSVILLE (L)         9/26     12:40PM          ESPN
NASCAR LATE MODEL, MARTINSVILLE (T)   9/26     9:30PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (SD)     9/26    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (T)      9/27     9:00-11:00PM     ESPN
BUSCH GN, ROUGEMONT (?)               10/02    TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, N. WILKESBORO (L)        10/03    1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/03    9:00-11:00PM  ESPN,TSN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/03   11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
NASCAR LATE MODEL, N. WILKESBORO (T)  10/04    9:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, LAGUNA SECA (T)           10/04    9:30PM           TSN
NHRA, KEYSTONE NATIONALS, READING (T) 10/05    10:30PM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, ELKART LAKE (T)        10/07    12:00AM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (?)               10/09    TBA              TBA
Formula Atlantic Season Summary       10/09    2:30-4:30PM      TSN
WINSTON CUP, CHARLOTTE (L)            10/10    1:00PM           TBS
IMSA GTP, PHOENIX (SD)                10/10    8:30PM           ESPN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out RDS which broadcasts each race live. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim 
Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     ASN                Arizona                         Ben Loosli
     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
     PSN                Portland                       Mike Butts
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 12:53:53 1993
Subject: RE: reminder/500 cid engines
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6218
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 09:40:02 1993
Date: Fri, 3 Sep 93 00:40 EDT
Subject: RE: reminder/500 cid engines
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> BTW I have a chart listing weights for modern big block engines.
> The Cad 500 was a  lightweight, and the heaviest by far was the
> Pontiac 455. Is my list incorrect?

 Feel like posting it?

 I know big block Chevies and Fords are heavy, and Buicks are very light.
Numbers for all would be nice.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 13:39:52 1993
Subject: RE: Propane Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6219
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>[But since alky requires almost twice the volume of gasoline, the cost
>isn't any cheaper.  Probably more expensive after you add in the fuel 
>tax which you still have to pay.  Then you have to deal with hard to 

Hmmm.  I thought you'd be exempt from the fuel tax.  I'm almost 
positive farmers don't pay tax on their fuels.

[That's only for agricultural use.  Farmers still have to pay tax on fuel
used in their licensed vehicles.  It is not even legal to use the exempt
fuel in a lawn mower.  At least that's the way it works in Tennessee on
our little farm.  The exempt gas is dyed blue and also contains trace
elements that permit identification even if the dye is filtered out. JGD]

>impossible cold starting (where cold is defined as anything less than
>balmy), icing of the manifolding, corrosion and much more rapidly
>contaminated oil.

I just thought alky should be compared to high octaine racing fuels 
~$3.00+ per gallon.  Also I agree that you should use it only on a 
limited driver - i.e. a real hot street machine.  Barry Grant makes all 
kinds of race alcohol stuff.  Some plastic fuel cells are sopposed to 
be O.K. for both alky and racing.  Corrosion past the carb (intake 
mainfold and heads etc.) is not supposed to be a problem.  Most of the 
alky evaporates.  Concerns would be temperature - perhaps a preheater 
in the bottom of the intake manifold or don't drive it in the cold.

>  Not a real good deal.  Plus I have serious doubts
>anyone could brew and distill the stuff in individual quantities for 
>$0.40/gal.  I've run alky in race bikes, cars and even a racing 
>chain saw.  It's almost too much hassle for racing.  No thanks at
>all for the street.  JGD]

Well there's no substitute for experience - just for kicks what kind of 
hassles (other than those mentioned above) did you have.

Specifically storage problems?
Deteriorating fuel lines/ systems ?
Inconsistant starting ?
Inconsistant power ?
What about safety - blue flames in bright sunlight doesn't sound easy 
to spot!
What about ignition systems?
Finally what about valve wear?

Dirk

PS  Wait!  Racing chain saw?  Two stroke?  You mixed the oil with the 
alky?  How did that work?  Is that a standard practice?

So many questions

[First the chain saw.  Yes, two stroke.  Klotz makes a fine two stroke 
oil that will stay mixed even in the presence of moisture.  Ordinary
two stroke oil will mix with pure methanol but will separate out in 
a cloudy mess if allowed to sit around and absorb moisture from the air.
My chainsaw racing ended around 1971 but motorcycle racing filled the gap.
We ran pure methanol in our motorcycles for many years.  Everything from
a 100 cc Hodaka SuperRat to my Yamaha 500 cc 4 stroke open class bike.

Problems.  Hmm, probably the worst one was the time I forgot and left the
meth in the chain saw after the competition.  Next morning the saw was 
literally a pile of parts and white powder.  The magnesium alloy was
attacked by the meth and destroyed.  It attacks aluminum and magnesium
with enthusiasm.  Steel is unaffected.  Zinc is pretty resistant to attack.
Anodizing protects aluminum but even a minor scratch will lead to 
attack.

If it is cool enough to need a jacket, starting a carburated alky engine
will be a bitch.  I guess the Hilborne guys can just crank enough liquid
fuel in to get the fire lit but it is almost impossible with carbs.
We devised a number of techniques including starting on a mostly gasoline
mix, supplying heat from a surplus APC heater and even starting fluid.
Icing was a problem even with the carb sitting behind the air-cooled cylinder.
We even ducted air from the cylinder and head around the carb(s).  Hosing
the inside of the carb (old round slide Mikunis) with LPS1 would keep
the ice from sticking.

Ignition?  All you can get.  You're trying to fire a wet fog, after all.
I rewound the stators of the magnetos in Hodakas and Suzuki 125s
in order to increase the spark energy.  Later we converted the bikes
to total loss (battery powered) CDI systems.  Most car people seem to
run either MSD-7 boxes or magnetos.

An akly engine is tolerant of being rich but is VERY intolerant of leaness.
Therefore most people overjet.  With a rich mixture being maybe 5:1,
supplying this mass of fuel taxes the whole system.  On the motorcycles,
for example, the gas tank cocks were replaced with valves and 1/2"
line run to the carbs.  All carb fuel passages were opened including in
some instances, adding epoxy buildup so holes larger than the casting
could be drilled.  As an illustration of how outrageous this gets,
the first cut on our Hodaka 100cc engine had the main jetting about
right with the jet removed from the holder!  High speed enleanment is
the fastest way I know of to disassemble pistons so adequate fuel is
VERY important.

Storage isn't a big problem other than it must remain capped at all times
or else it will absorb moisture out of the air.  It becomes corrosive,
loses heating value and will not mix with most oils when this happens.

Fire is a problem.  Never had an engine catch on fire any more than just 
a backfire carb fire but I always feared it.  The flame is invisible
in daylight.  Other than something like M85 which contains gasoline 
that colors the flame, I don't know a remedy except to be careful.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 14:48:09 1993
Subject: Re: thunderbird
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6220
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> > The 351 Windsor will fit.  You'll need the rear sump oil pan and
-> pickup >from a late Lincoln, V8 engine mounts, and that's about it.
> >

> But will the hood close :-)?  Up until the new "thin" front

 If you're going to go to the 351, why stay with Ford's suck-ola fuel
injection?  Run the Edelbrock Performer RPM 351W and a 750 Carter.  Use
the carb until Performance Engineering finally publishes their "Convert
your GameBoy into an EFI" article.
                                                                                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 14:57:29 1993
Subject: Re:  Pontiac 400 Problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6221
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>  According to my Pontiac archives, some Super Duty engines had a plug on
> the passenger side lifter gallery.  The plug is down where the
> distributor drive is, and has a .030 or so inch hole to oil the
> distributor gears, which were weirdball on some of the Super Duty
> engines.  Your Ram Air block might have had a similar oiling layout.
> I have a note sourced from some of HO's stuff saying the SD plugs are
> sometimes left out after hot tanking, causing no oil on the passenger
> side lifter gallery.

Another thing that may be a problem.  If all the oil passage plugs are there, it
could be that a plug has been tightened to deep or the wrong plug(too long) was
used and it is severely restricting the oil passage in the block.

Ed O'



----------
Posted by: emory!marcam.com!edo (Ed Oriordan)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 15:05:46 1993
Subject: Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6222
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Also, what does it mean on a cylinder head casting to have the
-> casting number followed by an "X"?  My '69 Camaro's heads don't have
-> the "X", but some '72 Chevelle heads I have do.

 As far as I know it's just a foundry ID, like the little clock dials
and other mysterious symbols.  A "W" on an aluminum part means it's from
Winters Foundry, for example.
                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 15:11:50 1993
Subject: Engine weights
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6223
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

David wrote:

>BTW I have a chart listing weights for modern big block engines.
>The Cad 500 was a  lightweight, and the heaviest by far was the
>Pontiac 455. Is my list incorrect?

I would bet the smaller cube Pontiacs might be heavier - more iron.  
Remember Cheby whent to 454 from a 427 "to save weight" - or is that 
bull? (I know it was said with a :-) but is it true?

Anyway my bet is the Mopar 440 or 426 is the heaviest block - and the 
Hemi head motors are monsters - that would put the Ford 429 Boss and 
early Chyrsler hemis high on the list.

Can you reprint the list?

I heard Buick 455 were relative light weights - weighing in about 50 
lbs more than a small block chevy?  Can't prove any of this though

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 15:16:18 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6224
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:

: I hope the "X" doesn't mean made in Mexico.  I know there are some blocks
: around with hecho en Mexico cast in them.  They're supposed to be made of
: inferior quality steel and not well suited to hi performance applications.

: Tom

: ----------
: Posted by: Tom Carver 

A good friend of mine is a "Mr. Goodwrench" i.e. GM mechanic, he says
he has seen way too many 350 cracked blocks from Mexico, for what
it's worth. (me, I'm a Ford guy, what can I say :-) )

--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Steve D'Amelio  damelio@progress.com  |  69 Mustang 351W
                                      |  70 Mustang 351C
 #7 & #28                             |  88 Mustang 302  
                                      |  - 1,025hp -
                There's no replacement, for displacement.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


----------
Posted by: emory!elba.progress.COM!damelio (Stephen D'Amelio)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 15:21:05 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6225
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



> The biggest difrence btween a 1500 degree cylder haed and a 1500
> degree brake rotor is mass.  It the smiming pool vrs a cold lemonade idea.
> the pool maybe 30 degree's hotter but it cools you of better because it
> removes more heat. so the difrence in cooling capicites would be alot
> bigger then 1/6th.

This is yet another falacious heat analysis.
First of all, how much of the cylinder head do you think is at 1500 degrees?
Really, not much - maybe the first millimeter from the cylinder inside
surface, and probably not that much.

Second, if I take a thousand glasses of coolade and dump them on you in
a period of ten seconds, how much heat would they remove? The key factor
in heat removal in a closed system is not "mass of metal to be cooled"
but "heat capacity of coolant flow". If the coolant flows fast enough,
you can remove any amount of heat that you can dissipate in the radiator.


----------
Posted by: John Lupien  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 15:26:38 1993
Subject: Re: thunderbird 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6226
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Fri, 3 Sep 93 00:48 EDT
> From:  David Gonzales (General) 
> 
>>...  Since the new style front end and hood, you have to cut
>>a hole in the hood to clear the 302 plenum.

>Not true...or else how is one can buy a brand new 1993
>Thunderbird with a 5.0 in it? The one I looked at did not
>have a "hole cut in the hood."

Sorry about this, I did not describe this as clearly as I should
have.  When the front end/hood changed, Ford changed the 5.0 intake
plenum to fit under the hood.  Prior to that time, the same
5.0 HO engine that fit into a Mustang could be placed into the T-Bird.
The plenum change cost about 15 HP.

>Besides, the original poster didn't say he wanted to use any
>specific manifold...he just asked which engines would fit.
>Almost anything will fit. After all, Ford squeezed a 5.0 in the
>new T-Bird! But to be serious, the 5.0 would be the easiest
>V8 swap into a 1987 T-Bird. Ford has already engineered
>the 5.0 swap.

A friend of mine does a lot of engine swaps into T-Birds.  I have
seen some of his work, and the only engine that fits without
radical modifications is the 5.0.  Sure, with enough work,
welder time, and hood modifications you can make anything fit.  Any
reasonable "old style" carb and intake manifold will be at least
as tall as the EFI plenums, so I think you can use this as a
reference height.  I don't remember exactly (but Dave W. probably does),
the 351 block height is about 5/8" taller then the 302, which is
enough to require hood modifications on the T-Bird (and a Mustang).



	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 15:31:46 1993
Subject: Re: Computer Chip Data
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6227
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> own custom PROM's, but they ain't talking. Most of the companies that do custom
> PROM's spent hours bit twiddling to come up with their chips. They basically
> just reverse engineered them.

	I heard that one guy got his his brother in law to take a ford box
into work where they took russian satalite chips apart and decoded th
ciruitry. They got done in a week while wroking on it during lunch.
Henry

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 15:36:44 1993
Subject: Corvette Black Book
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6228
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Where can someone find one of these Corvette Black Books? It sounds
like a wealth of knowledge.

Thanks

Tim (brazil@ingres.com)

----------
Posted by: emory!ingres.com!brazil (Ya can't git dare from here)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 15:57:06 1993
Subject: Re: Hurst shifter problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6229
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I've had this problem twice, the first time the adaptor that I made
didn't have the clearance groove behind the shifter mount. Therefore
the shift pin had insufficient movment to engage reverse. The second
time I had the reverse linkage either too long or too short, preventing
shifter engagement. Check for correct shift rod adjustment by inserting
a 3/16 allen wrench into the adjustment slot on the shifter and verify
that all the rods are adjusted for neutral.

***************************************************************
Millam E. Tackitt                        met@naucse.cse.nau.edu

1967 Cougar XR-7 271/289 4spd/CR 4spd
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 3-dueces and an Auto 
'64 Galaxie XL 352CID, console auto and front and rear buckets.
***************************************************************
Hey Billie, solve the trade deficit in one quick and easy step,
NATIONALIZE ALL FOREIGN holdings in U.S. Territories, then
nuke the japs! (economically speaking, of course)

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 16:02:46 1993
Subject: Re: Propane Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6230
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>In Maryland - alternative fuels including deasel exempts you 
>from smog checks.

>I've thought of alky as an alternative fuel - If you're a farmer 
>you can get a license to distil it for fuel use only.  In 
>theory its about $.40 a gallon and you can run 13.0:1 
>compression.  It requires specialize fuel systems - but there 
>seems to be enough parts available (fuel tanks, pumps, filters, 
>and even carbs).

One of the retired professors in Ag. Eng and U of Illinois converted
his beater Chevy Caprice to ethonal.  It was not that specialized.
He used to carb.  One to start (and stop) the eninge on gas, but
after the engine warmed up (a couple of miles) he would switch it
over to the second carb.  The jets were drilled out a little bit 
but that was about it for the modifications.

>[But since alky requires almost twice the volume of gasoline, the cost
>isn't any cheaper.  Probably more expensive after you add in the fuel 
>tax which you still have to pay.  Then you have to deal with hard to 
>impossible cold starting (where cold is defined as anything less than
>balmy), icing of the manifolding, corrosion and much more rapidly
>contaminated oil.  Not a real good deal.  Plus I have serious doubts
>anyone could brew and distill the stuff in individual quantities for 
>$0.40/gal.  I've run alky in race bikes, cars and even a racing 
>chain saw.  It's almost too much hassle for racing.  No thanks at
>all for the street.  JGD]

He had brewed his own alchohol using waste starches that he could get
from different sources.  He also drained the half empty beer kegs that
a local distributor got returned.  After a while he had trouble getting
the free starch, and the distributor couldn't allow him to drain the 
kegs (I don't remember why anymore).  In addition there is a rather
hefty liscense to run a still.  The cost of the liscense was what finally
did him in.  He has since sold the car.

Mark W. Blunier mwb5489@age2.age.uiuc.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 17:39:26 1993
Subject: RE: reminder
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6231
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> >could anyone refresh my memory and tell me which mid 70's 
> >Corvette had
> >(optional?) a 500 CiD in it (8 litre i think)?
> 
> The largest automotive engine that chevy produced is the 454 or 
> 7.4 litres.  Cadallac had a 500 cu in ('72 I think).  There are 
> plenty of aftermarket sources to increase the distplacement of 
> the Chevy big-block up tp 700 cu. in. money willing.

 Cadillac offered the 500 cid engine standard in Eldorados from
1970 to atleast 1976. For 1975,76 the only engine available
for the full size cars was the 500 cid.

  There are companies that specialize in Cadillac performance that run
small adds in magazines like popular hotrodding.

             Cal


----------
Posted by: emory!snakemail.hut.fi!tratschu
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 17:43:37 1993
Subject: Chips .. are you interested (hacking?)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6232
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi folks,

I am currently involved in a NON-COMMERCIAL project to crack the chips from
the BOSCH motronic 1.0 and 1.1 version ECU's ... I have a (partially) blown
ECU from a 1988 BMW 325iX (Mo 1.1) and am both tracing out the hardware,
and disassembling the eprom code ...

I have so far figured out the following:

CPU: Siemens 80535 (515?) @ 12Mhz [compatible with 8051 code]
     a support chip (Latches, I/O) is made by phillips ..
     
     The chip has an internal 8k of ROM from 0x0000 to 0x1fff

EPROM: 27256 (32k x 8) the CPU uses 0x2000 to 0x7fff 

RAM: a RAM (maybe 8k x 8) is onboard

Spark Advance/Dwell is controlled by a prop. 24 pin chip, BOSCH details 
it's theory of operation in their AUTOMOTIVE ELECTRONICS hdbk.

FROM THE CODE:

I have found many data tables, now the problem is interpreting them :(


If anyone is interested in helping out ...


Bitte,

Jim Conforti
(87 325is / 92 325i)

---------------------------------
WORK: 1-800-288-8020 (x3406)
FAX: (801) 373-1889
INET: jec@cpu.us.dynix.com
---------------------------------


----------
Posted by: Jim Conforti 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 17:48:03 1993
Subject: help ID this Pontiac engine, please
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6233
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



  Been seeing a lot of well informed Pontiac engine posts, so I thought
I'd see if anyone can ID this engine. It was in a '69 Firebird 400, but
may not have been the original engine there. It has three freeze
plugs/side, and a "400" cast into the side of the block, so it is
likely a '60s era 400. 

  The mystery is the two letter engine ID code stamped into the
front of the block..."XF". This code is not listed for a 400 in
any of the numerous Firebird & GTO books I have...anyone know what
this engine is?

Lee K. Gleason N5ZMR
Control-G Consultants
gleason@mwk.com

----------
Posted by: "Lee K. Gleason" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 17:52:47 1993
Subject: Re:  Corvette Black Book
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6234
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Tim writes:

>Where can someone find one of these Corvette Black Books? It sounds
>like a wealth of knowledge.
>Thanks
>Tim (brazil@ingres.com)

Well I just came from my local bookstore and saw a couple of copies there
in the automotive section.  Didn't pay them much attention seeing how I'm
a Ford man.  I would think most any bookstore would have them.  This store
had quite a few different price guide type books.  Later.
Tom 

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 17:58:06 1993
Subject: Ford motors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6235
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

noticed you had both the cleveland and windsor 351's... so... which do you
prefer?

----------
Posted by: Met Razal 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 18:08:05 1993
Subject: Coolant flow was-RE>>Warped
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6236
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

GatorMail-Q                   Coolant flow was:RE>>Warped brake rotors
>Second, if I take a thousand glasses of coolade and dump them on you
in
>a period of ten seconds, how much heat would they remove? The key
factor
>in heat removal in a closed system is not "mass of metal to be cooled"
>but "heat capacity of coolant flow". If the coolant flows fast enough,
>you can remove any amount of heat that you can dissipate in the
radiator.

Related comments:  I have heard people make comments that if you take
your thermostat out, the engine will run hotter at equilibrium because
the coolant does not stay in the radiator long enough to give up its
heat.  A couple incidents make me think this is not true.  It seems
like the more coolant you can circulate, the better the cooling system
will work.  

[This would be an FAQ if we had one :-)  The concept that a fluid
could flow too fast to absorb heat is pretty silly, though
it is one of those things that seems to have perpetual life.
In general heat transfer terms, the higher the velocity the better.
At least until the onset of cavitation.

What DOES happen with some engines when the thermostat is removed
is the pump has insufficient head and cavitates.  And the reduced
pressure in the block and heads causes the onset of film boiling
at hot spots which involves the formation of highly insulating steam
layers on wetted surfaces.  Since the steam insulates the hot spot,
the film grows and is self-perpetuating.  The restrictor (or thermostat)
simply provides some back pressure which mitigates both cavitation and
film boiling.  JGD]

Anybody work with the thermostat replacers for racing which have the
different size holes in them to vary engine temp?  Does more flow
equate to cooler or hotter?  How can you determine if the system
bottleneck is radiator capacity or flow rate?  Anybody know where to
get a cast impeller water pump for a Pontiac V8 if more flow IS better?
 So many questions.

[Figuring out whether the radiator has sufficient capacity is simple - 
measure the outlet water temperature.  If it is at or below the thermostat
temperature, the radiator has adequate capacity for the prevailing 
conditions.  JGD]


Jim Chott
rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com


----------
Posted by: "Jim Chott" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 18:46:19 1993
Subject: Re: thunderbird 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6237
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Greetings!

Regarding the V-8 in a 87 Thunderbird question, a friend of mine has one with 
a 302 motor out of a *very* similar Lincoln of the same year. The two cars are 
almost identical except for the Lincoln's hump on the trunk. He chose the 
Lincoln setup because there was one at the salvage yard and he took the 
wiring harness, transmission, driveshaft, rear-end and exhaust system from it 
and dropped all this in the T-Bird. The Lincoln motor seems very similar to 
the Mustang 5.0 motor except the harness and ignition wiring is revised for 
the Lincoln chassis. The fuel injection setup was the same as the Mustang's 
as far as I could determine. The end result was a peppier car that had a very 
un-Thunderbird like growl and it was California Smog Legal according to the 
state referee!

Why do I say was? The T-Bird met an early demise during a lunch at the local 
Taco-Bell. He street parked it in front of the place and after he sat down on 
the patio with his food, a dump truck rear ended it. 8(

He liked that totalled 5.0 T-Bird so much that he purchased a Lincoln to avoid 
the trouble of the components swap. All's well that ends well!

Kevin Martinez
lps@rahul.net 
 

----------
Posted by: Kevin Martinez 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep  3 18:54:33 1993
Subject: MSD Timing Control
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6238
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	Recently, I installed an MSD HEI Adjustable Timing Control in
my carbureted Pontiac. The unit was a simple three wire hook-up, with
one wire to the positive side of the coil, one wire to the negative
side of the coil, and a ground wire.

	I don't understand, however, how this unit adjusts the timing
since it is hooked in parallel with the ignition coil and the HEI
ignition module. My only guess is the timing control shorts out the
coil, and after an ignition pulse from the ignition module is
received, the timing control sends another ignition pulse after a
certain delay. Does anybody have any more information? If this
was the case, it would seem the control has to accept quite a bit
of power and heat.

	Also, how is the timing control able to advance the timing,
since it must now fire the coil BEFORE an ignition pulse is
received? Does it just "guess" based on timing control setting and
engine RPM?

	As of yet, I have been quite pleased with the unit, since
it can vastly reduce (though not totally eliminate) pinging when
flooring the accelerator on a rather steep hill.



                                                    Jason

[I've not actually played with this unit but I'll speculate based on 
how MSD does it with other retard modules (and about the only way I
can think of to do it).

The unit can't advance the timing past when the HEI triggers for obvious
reasons.  What it CAN do is establish some amount of retard as "normal".
When you set the mechanical timing under this condition, you are  
actually mechanically advancing the timing.  The "normal" retard in
the box makes the timing "right".  When you turn the knob to "advance",
you're actually only lessening the electronic retard.  You can check
to see if this is how it works by checking the timing marks with and 
without the box being connected.  Bet you'll see the timing go way
advanced when you disconnect the box.

How it actually works is it detects the firing of the HEI module by
detecting when coil current diverts from the now-open transistor in the
HEI module to the transistor in the box. (clever)  It phase locks an
oscillator to the pulse rate and the pot simply varies point between
pulses when the box triggers.  It relies on the HEI module staying off
for a few degrees and being off when the box fires.  This unit probably
wouldn't work with the "high performance" HEI modules that crank up the
electronic dwell (turn the transistor back on quickly after firing).
JGD]

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a
tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes
in the house. 

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)
(jcborkow@trident.usacs.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep  4 04:46:36 1993
Subject: RE: Welding in the privacy of your garage.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6239
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>
  ** Apologies for not posting this direct to Ken **
  ** I could'nt decode his email address **
  ** this is ...long **

>Subject: welding in the privacy of your own garage
>
  At last, a question *I* can field...

>greetings:
>  i have a question for those out there who know how to weld.  i
>would like to weld some sheetmetal on my nova (trying to avoid
>pop rivets and bondo as much as possible), and was wondering how
>difficult it is to learn to weld at home?  are there good books

  KC, (and HotRodders)
  It is not difficult to learn to weld.  The difficult part is
  affording the tools and acquiring the 'knack'.
  There are a raft of books on the subject, but reading a book on 
  welding is like playing football from your armchair.  You learn
  the basics but never quite get the execution.
  
  The Welder's Handbook by HP books makes a very good primer on what's
  out there and techniques.  After neglecting my welding skills for over
  a decade, this (HP book) is where I re-started.
  
>on technique?  what form of welding is most forgiving of a novice?
>(mig, tig, torch,.....)  i am an expert at soldering (both pc
>boards and plumbing types), but would like some advice before 

  Soldering skills will be a benefit because welding is very similar.
  The flowing of liquid metals (fusing) together to form a joint is
  remarkably applicable regardless of what metal(s) you are working.

  You should be familiar with 'heat the joint and let the solder melt
  into the joint'.  I do a *lot* of hand soldering where I work
  (making electronic prototypes) and eye-hand dexterity is where it's
  at.  Welding (in any medium) is similar, but with much more care in
  the temperatures being used and having to train the eye to sense
  a proper weld.  This takes raw time in the saddle to acquire.

  MIG welding (wire feed, inert gas) or GMAW I found to be the most
  forgiving to the novice.  This is because of the gas envelope
  (and I much prefer GAS MIG) and it's effect on arc retention.
  Honestly, I was a mediocre welder (I chose not to make it my
  profession =|^> ) until I purchased a MIG, then it was like
  my talent was amplified.  Migging is best done in a garage or enclosed
  space because of the tendency to lose the gas envelope as a result
  of moving air in the vicinity of the weld site.  Flux migging
  might suffer from this (dunno for sure) but has the added problem
  of flux residue remaining after the weld.  This type of MIG is
  the cheapest available for the hardware, but the most expensive for
  the mig-cored wire reels. (consumables)
  
  Gas (oxy-acetylene) welding must not be ignored here either, this
  method is also very good for welding sheet metal.  I have infact
  used gas to followup a MIG weld to ensure PENETRATION.  One of my
  favorite tricks is to use the MIG to 'tack' a panel in place, then
  fill in using the mig and folow up with the torch to smooth the bead.
  Otherwise you have to grind A LOT.  Specific attention to avoiding
  warpage in a panel must always be forefront in your mind.  For this
  reason, I avoid using a torch to tack a panel in place, the heat buildup
  is just too great to control warpage.  Trust me, warpage is a BIG
  problem when wrangling sheet steel, the larger the part, the worse the
  risk.  This is where some skill at metal bumping comes in.  Another 
  lost art for panelworking is hammerwelding, but that's another topic...

>taking the plunge on equipment.  the pro's want an arm and a leg 
>to do what needs to be done, and i've got a *lot* more time than 
>money.  

  It will be a plunge...  I purchased both MIG and Oxy-acetylene sets,
  these set me back over 1K.  And I bought entry level stuff.
  My choice for MIG was the Airco miglite 100, at $450 from my local
  friends at the welding shop.  Phooey! This unit is made in Britain
  by SIP (Standard Industial Products) and was also offered by JC Whitney
  as their delux ($350) model.  The price was right, and I LIKE IT.
  It has the Binzel torch and hose (very soft and light weight) ideal for
  tight confines (like those found in my 914). Six heats and 100 amp max.
  Not sure if Warshawsky still sells that particular unit. I got %10 off.
  The above mentioned price includes rental on gas cylinders (Argon/Co2, o2,
  acetylene) for 7 to ten years.  The unit operates on 115Vac, and can be
  used on an extension cord (but not on the higher power settings).

  Having lots of time (and short on cash) can work to your advantage.
  pinch yourself up front to get the hardware, then study and practice
  techniques until you can weld something your life may depend on.
  Literally, fabricate something of use that will demand quality welds.
  In my case, I welded a scad of pencil boxes out of playing card size
  punchouts of sheet steel of similar gauge to your car.  give them away
  as gifts so your friends can critique your work...peer pressure -its
  wonderful.  If you're really good, weld up a rotisserie to mount yer car's
  body to so you can do all your welds 'IN POSITION' by then, YOU can
  weld a panel onto your car and maybe not warp the bejeebers or blow
  holes in it.  Since you now have fabrication capability, exhaust systems
  become a snap, chairs, shelves, trailers, engine stands, etc. become
  items of want if you got the steel and a design in mind.  I paid for
  my gas weld set in one weekend after making an engine stand for my
  Porsche motor. (tool P201)
  

  Now perhaps you understand why the welding shops maybe gouge the folks
  wanting a little skill and equipment to make a rusted out panel like new
  again.  I too, learned this the hard way -nobody rides free, and 
  discounts are tough to come by.
  Sorry if this sounds sarcastic in places, but the realities hit me
  pretty hard.  I have yet to drive this car, and I am sure I could
  have constructed a 914 from a box of factory parts (if i could $ them)
  and be driving it now.  But then I would not have a good reason to
  own a fine set of tools and equipment, and I would still be ignorant
  of all the doings that go into making a car (from scratch?).
  Much of this stuff is pure judgment call... do what you like,
  each to his own...not the worst, not the best.  Spousal support
  would be invaluable.

  Fare Thee Well.

---
  Who/what is kyle?
  he's a nutcase that, three years ago decided to ground-up restore a
  rusted out 914 Porsche (and I do mean rusted OUT).
  Why?
  because the damn thang was a pseudo-gift from his papa twenty years ago.
  talk about a love-hate relationship...AIIEEEeeee...

-- 
  -kyle
  
   Electrical Designer   (AND) Senior Engineering Laboratory Technician
   Subsystems Development Engineering,

   NCR corporation; Microelectronics Products Division  [an ATT company]

----------
Posted by: Kyle Ehler 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep  4 04:53:06 1993
Subject: Re: welding in the privacy of your garage.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6240
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


  
>
>       Get a tub of goo to dip the MIG welder tip into while it's hot.  I
>don't know what it's called, but it keeps the weld splatter from sticking
>inside the nozzle of the welder.  
>
  NO! Dont do this... Use 'Yorks Spatter-Pruf' in the pump bottle.
  The tubs of goo are silicone...it will contaminate your welds if it
  drips on your work, then it smokes and stinks.  Bad deal.
  The York's is made in Chicago, sorry I dont have a # or vendor.
  One 8oz bottle will last a lifetime, no silicone.

  It is very important to keep your stinger clean, specifically to prevent
  shorting out and clogging the gas envelope flow.  The stinger nozzle must 
  always remain isolated (floating) from any voltage potentials.

  In a pinch, ordinary PLAIN cooking PAM is just as good, a mechanical
  scraper works ok too.  

>       Clean (grind, scrub, wire brush etc.) the steel before you start
>welding.  Rust, grease, paint, and dirt make the bead splatter, spit, bubble
>and wind up giving you a weak, porous weld.

   SANDBLASTING cant be beat for removal of ALL particles and residue
   but is a hassle to control stray sand.  There is available now a hand
   blaster with rubber tips to confine the blast and recycle the media.
>
>       Wire brush the slag off as soon as you finish the bead (while it's
>still hot).  
       
   There is NO SLAG with a GAS MIG, only beads where YOU put them.
   Slag is the flux residue after the fusing event has occured.
   Slag results from the use of stick rod welding or flux-cored MIG.

>       Always wire brush the end of a bead that you're going to continue
>welding over if you want a nice continuous looking bead.
>
   This is unneccesary unless contamination has occured.

>       Always cut off the excess wire and ball hanging out the welder gun
>with some dikes before starting the next bead (to get to some fresh wire).
>
   I never had a problem with zapping thru a knob...and the wire is kept
   'fresh' by continuous feed.  Maybe do this if the wire has rusted since
   last use.

>       Whenever possible, do the weld horizontally.
>
   Vertical, Horizontal -these are known as IN POSITION welding.
   Hah! how many vertical/horizontal surfaces are found in life and 
   can be accessed for easy welding? not many. Unless you have a ROTISSERIE.
   [I love my rotisserie!]

>       Get a book that shows you how to hold your hand, the proper
>techniques for stitching the weld etc.
>
>       Work where there is NO drafts of air.  The wind blows the argon out
>of the way which causes the weld to spatter all over the place.  Also, cold
>wind on a freshly welded bead can cause it to get brittle and crack.
>
>       If you have to work outdoors or in a drafty place, put up cardboard
>or plywood or something to cut down the draft, also turn up the flow of gas.
>
>       Get some heavy duty welders gloves, a good mask, wear long sleave
>cotton shirt and levis.  The cotton burns, but it's easy to pat it out. 
>Polyester or acrylic clothes can go up like a bonfire.  As soon as you finish
>a bead, check to make sure you haven't caught anything on fire.  I burned a
>hole 3" wide in my pants -- it's a funny feeling to look down and see your
>groin on fire, luckily I patted it out just in time.  Also, be aware that the
>bright light from the arc can give you severe sunburn.  I got really bad
>sunburn under my chin and on my chest and arms once after an afternoon of
>welding. 
>
  By all means, protect yourself with LEATHERS Anchor Brand makes a dandy
  long-sleeved snap together set with a replaceable apron ($50).
  Jackson sells a nice hood with the larger faceplate ($30), and to let
  you see your weld site BEFORE striking use a gold vapor deposited
  welding screen ($12).

>       I've worked mainly with mild steel, but I've also tried welding
>stainless steel using stainless steel wire.  It needs more current and it
>makes a more lumpy looking bead.  I've heard you can MIG weld aluminum, but a
>friend of mine at work said that you shouldn't try it with a cheapo MIG
>welder.  He said you need a special teflon-lined cable for aluminum.
>
  True.  The polarity must be reversed to weld Al.  Most cheep MIGGERs
  deleted the expensive connectors that allow reversing the leads polarity.

>
>       Tom
  Some mention must be made of support tools to welding.  Things like
  depressed center grinders, clamps, die grinders, cutting wheels,
  portable band-saw, sanding discs and mandrel, etc.

  It is also important to proceed in a safe manner...
  Fire extinguishers, fume hoods or masks, protective barriers for 
  civilians, ground fault circuit interrupters, etc.

  Remember, welding is hazardous and many people have died and/or 
  destroyed property doing so.
-- 
  -kyle
  

----------
Posted by: Kyle Ehler 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep  4 13:42:38 1993
Subject: Re: thunderbird
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6241
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> reference height.  I don't remember exactly (but Dave W. probably
-> does), the 351 block height is about 5/8" taller then the 302, which
-> is enough to require hood modifications on the T-Bird (and a
-> Mustang).

 A carbureted 302 and a carbureted 351W (stock manifolds) have exactly
the same carb height.  The 351W manifold sorta sags in the middle to
make things fit.

 There are aftermarket intakes which do this as well.
                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep  4 13:52:26 1993
Subject: Coolant flow was-RE>>Warped
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6242
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> What DOES happen with some engines when the thermostat is removed is
-> the pump has insufficient head and cavitates.  And the reduced
-> pressure in the block and heads causes the onset of film boiling at
-> hot spots which involves the formation of highly insulating steam
-> layers on wetted surfaces.  Since the steam insulates the hot spot,
-> the film grows and is self-perpetuating.  The restrictor (or
-> thermostat) simply provides some back pressure which mitigates both
-> cavitation and film boiling.  JGD]

 The proper solution is to run a full-velocity cooling system, using a
thermostatic bypass arrangement, and a pressure cap with an appropriate
rating.  German Ford V6s use what appears to be a wildly complex
thermostat arrangement, but they run the coolant full bore and depend on
the pressure cap to prevent film boiling.

 I intend to experiment with this with the 351X.  No sense in having
that honking big water pump sucking up power running in what amounts to
a stall condition most of the time.
                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep  4 13:56:56 1993
Subject: Re: Ford motors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6243
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
: noticed you had both the cleveland and windsor 351's... so... which do you
: prefer?

Just split the difference: BOSS 302
These days Windors are so much better supported (aftermarket heads, etc.)
I wouldn't touch a Cleveland.
- Phil

----------
Posted by: emory!netcom.com!preston (Philip Preston)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep  4 14:01:19 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6244
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: 350 Trannys
Message-ID: 
Summary: 350 trannys
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1993 09:13:29 GMT
Lines: 26

Okay, that makes the second junkyard TH350 tranny that has gone out on
me.  This one isn't completely out, but it won't go into reverse! :-(

I put a B&M $20 shift kit on both of them.  Is this what killed them,
or were they dead to start from?  The first one I got from the junkyard
in questionable condition, and the second I got from a friend and had been
lying around for  couple years.  I rinsed them both out with tranny fluid,
installed the shift kit as the instructions said, and replaced the filter.

Now, will I be better off buying another junkyard one and hoping it will
last ($50), a locally rebuilt one ($150), a rebuilt 400 and new driveshaft
($??), or just save up the money and get a "TCI Street Fighter" from Summit
for $500?  If the shift kit did kill it (as I have heard rumors that it
might) is there any other way to get those tire chirping shifts without
grenading the tranny?

I am getting real tired of replacing trannys in this car.  The headers are
in the way of just jacking it up, so we basically had to get two people to
benchpress the tranny into place while a third started the bolts.  Not
fun.  Thanks.

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep  4 21:47:14 1993
Subject: Re:  No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6245
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Mike Golden mentioned a tail of woe regarding the T350.  The T350
is not indestructible but the T400 is virtually indestructible.
To be safe, get a T400, put a sprag drum and clutch in it, make
sure that the pistons are cast aluminum (not sheet metal), and
go for it.  Oh,, you want the D center support and be sure that
the tranny uses a spacer ring between the center support and the
case.

MMph grumble - this news reader won't let me edit the above - where
it says D it should say HD.

The T400 is a bit longer than the T350, about 0.6 inches if you get
the short tailshaft model.  The mount is different; get a crossmember
for the 400 and it will drop right in.  You will also need a kickdown
switch on the throttle; many cars already have the mounting plate for
the switch installed above the gas pedal.

That's about all there is to it.  Be wary of shift kits - many of
these jack up the line pressure quite a bit and this leads to
premature failure of the pump.

Bob Hale                hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep  4 21:51:36 1993
Subject: Re: Corvette Black Book
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6246
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Tim writes:
> Where can someone find one of these Corvette Black Books? It sounds
> like a wealth of knowledge.

      Corvette Black Book 1953-1993, by Michael Antonick

          $11.95 each + $3.00 postage and handling
          Check or Money Order
          Ohio residents add .72 sales tax

          Order from:  Michael Bruce Associates, Inc.
                       P.O.Box 396
                       Powell, Ohio 43065

--
Greg Hackney
The VetteNet - Corvette Email List
vettes-request@chiller.compaq.com

----------
Posted by: emory!moxie.hou.tx.us!hackney (Greg Hackney)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep  5 00:45:29 1993
Subject: epa & aftermarket chips
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6247
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hey y'all

	There's an article in usa-today.tech about the epa's testing of
aftermarket chips.  At one point it says that they tested the cars so
modefied at WOT.

Henry

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep  5 03:42:49 1993
Subject: aftermarket ecu
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6248
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I am in the market for a programable ecu to run a port fuel injection set up
on a porsche 911. the car originally had CIS injection but plans for forced
induction at a later date (turbo or supercharger) and the lack of flexibility
with the CIS system have caused me to look at other possiblities. I have the
complete setup from a later model electronic injection system used for 86 911
less airflow sensor and control unit. I am planing on using the electromotive
TEC II system because it has its own distributorless ignition system and can be
set up for twin plug applications. Has anyone used this system? has anyone
tried to program a aftermarket injection system without a dyno? is it
practical/possible?any info or hints appreciated.

John Haley
lansing mi
e-mail: poneleit@student.msu.edu

[I've installed and/or tuned several Electromotives, tuned a couple of
Haltechs and have the tuning software for the Australian Motes system.
Of these, I like the Motes best, the Electromotive second and the
Haltech third (only because it doesn't do ignition.) I'd love the
Electromotive except for a couple of problems.  The biggest problem is
the crank pickup, which is an industrial piece tachometer pickup and is
totally unsuited for the engine bay environment.  It will do if you
mount it on a thermally insulating mount and hold the TIR of the crank
encoder gear to <0.002".  The other problem is that there are enough
reports of poor/non-existant tech support to take seriously.  I've always
gotten good support but then again, they probably recognize my name from
the magazine.  There have been reports from people on this list of the
ECU quitting in cold weather.  I have not experienced that even when
running an engine during a snowstorm.

Other than that, it is a very sophisticated and fairly easy to tune
system.  It does direct digital ignition, batch (non-sequential)
injection, closed loop mixture control, closed loop knock control and
closed idle air control.  Since it has block learn capability, If you
run your car on unleaded gas (or have an unlimited source of O2
sensors), you can run closed loop and the thing will practically tune
itself.  The idle air control feature is very nice for stabilizing
the idle of a high performance engine.  I saw a very good example 
of this at a recent Porsche Club Day at Road Atlanta.  I walked up and
volunteered to help a fellow try to get rid of a serious runnability
and roughness problem with his TEC-II-equipped 911 racecar.  Turned
out he had dropped a valve but most people always point the finger at
the electronics first :-)  Anyway, the car was sitting there idling
at about 1000 rpm on 5 cylinders.  He turned the IAC off using his laptop.
Instantly the engine started that classic runup-rundown characteristic
of an engine with a hot, high overlap cam.

The worst part of tuning the system is the PC software (disclaimer:  my 
version of the software is a couple of minor revisions old).  The haltech
has a nice bargraph where the mixture can be run up or down with the 
cursor keys while the engine is running.  This makes tuning without
a dyno possible because the laptop display reflects the engine state.
The electromotive allows changing the timing and gamma (1/lambda) while
running but only in absolute terms.  One must hold the manifold pressure
and RPM constant and tune the parameter for best power.  Then real-time
mode must be exited and the map edited with another menu.  This map
is then batched to the ECU but only when the engine is off.  The auto-tune
function mitigates this to some extent but map editing is still necessary
to get the best powerband and throttle response.  If you have a dyno,
the tuning process isn't too bad.  It is REAL difficult to do on the road.

For what it's worth, I've gotten the tuning software to run pretty well
on my HP95LX palmtop.  It talks to the ECU via the serial port so
that part works well.  There is a hardware bug in the 95 serial port
that causes the software to occasionally crash but not too often.  It
should run just fine on the 100LX or any of the other truly compatable
palmtops.

The Motes system does all the stuff the Electromotive does plus it can
work with a convention distributor for both triggering and spark 
distribution or it can use a conventional one-pulse-per-cylinder crank
trigger.  Perhaps the only downside is Motes is relatively new to the 
US and any real technical support is in Australia.  May or may not 
be a problem.  I am impressed with the quality of the hardware.

The Haltech is a competent and easy to tune EFI controller.  It does not
do ignition.  They either have now or shortly will have the capability to 
run closed loop.  Good system but a little pricy compared to either 
of the above.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: Loelle S Poneleit 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep  5 16:50:08 1993
Subject: Re: Ford motors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6249
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> These days Windors are so much better supported (aftermarket heads,
-> etc.) I wouldn't touch a Cleveland.

 Clevelands don't NEED aftermarket heads.  And once you buy a pair of
Darts or whatever for your Windsor, you're still stuck with sucko
Windsor intake manifolds.  There don't seem to be any decent ones around
for the poor Windsor.  Slap on a set of Cleveland heads and a conversion
intake, and you're ready to rock.
                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep  5 16:55:34 1993
Subject: epa & aftermarket chips
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6250
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> There's an article in usa-today.tech about the epa's testing of
-> aftermarket chips.  At one point it says that they tested the cars so
-> modefied at WOT.


 WAHAHAAAA!  Wotta buncha maroons!

 I dunno what they would test for.  There's no requirement to meet any
tailpipe specs at WOT.


 Sounds like when the NHTSA crash-tested all those cars at over
their legally required impact speed, then sent out nasty press releases
when the cars failed.
                                                                                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep  5 17:03:26 1993
Subject: light weight 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6252
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


What is the lightest weight engine to get about 350-400 ft lb and
350-400 hp, Calif street legal, streetable, reliable.  Is 300
lbs reasonable?   Is there a reasonable cost choice?

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Binford 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep  5 17:08:08 1993
Subject: T400 Trannys
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6253
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>Mike Golden mentioned a tail of woe regarding the T350.  The T350
>is not indestructible but the T400 is virtually indestructible.

>The T400 is a bit longer than the T350, about 0.6 inches if you get
>the short tailshaft model.

The stock driveshaft may be able to take up this much differance.  I will
have to check on that.

> The mount is different; get a crossmember for the 400 and it will drop right
> in.

No good.  My Regal and other 78-87 G-bodies didn't come with the TH400 (to
my knowledge).  Any other idea where I can find a crossmember?

> You will also need a kickdown
>switch on the throttle; many cars already have the mounting plate for
>the switch installed above the gas pedal.

That's fine.  I'm not above fabrication! :-)

>That's about all there is to it.  Be wary of shift kits - many of
>these jack up the line pressure quite a bit and this leads to
>premature failure of the pump.

Well the pump seems to be working fine on mine.  I took one of the cooling
lines off and it sprayed fluid everywhere!  I don't know.  I'm just getting
real tired of replacing trannys, though.
Thanks.

P.S.  Why doesn't it ever show a "subject" for my postings?  I put it in the
subject line, but it doesn't show up.  Hmmmm.....

[There was no Subject: line in the headers of your incomming message.
I added one in for this post.  Perhaps something funky with the sw on your
posting machine?  JGD]

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 00:44:49 1993
Subject: '79 Diplomat overheating
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6254
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The ol' beater overheated on the highway (wasn't a particularly hot day
either), checked the hoses, fluid, and replaced the thermostat (180
degrees).  Drove it around the block and let it sit in the driveway for
about 5 minutes as I watched the temperature gauge climb to a notch below
boiling.

Earlier, while working on the thermostat I filled up the radiator until it
appeared to be full, put the cap on, quickly drove it around the block to
even out the bubbles, took off the radiator cap (everything was still
cool) and a helluvalot of a fluid burst out (cold).  The water pump
appears to be fine.

Since then I've taken off the head.  (BTW: This is a slant-6, 225, 2bbl
carb, '79 with about 95,000 miles).  The tops of the pistons weren't too
carbonized, the piston walls perfectly smooth.  The head gasket looked fine,
but the exhaust manifold was cracked in half below the carb. and a couple
exhaust gasket ports were blown.

Any ideas as to what's wrong with the car before I start the long process
of piecing the baby back together (if I can muster the will)?


----------
Posted by: emory!gold.tc.umn.edu!bram0003 (Paul F Bramscher-1)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 02:31:48 1993
Subject: Re: help ID this Pontiac engine, please
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6255
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


if you look in the chiltons manual for the years 1964 to  1971 under pontiac it will have the correct engine identification for your block  also if you cannot get an answer from there write to High Performance PONTIAC which is available at most larger bookstores.

----------
Posted by: Eugena Alexandra Akerman 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 02:36:55 1993
Subject: Re: thunderbird
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6256
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , you write...
>I've got an 87 t-bird and i;m about ready to mod it out a little...
> 
>so, can anyone recommend an engine they *KNOW* will fit?  I was hoping it
>will take a 351, but i'm not terrible sure... i know they put 302's in no
>problem...

Well, the T-Bird's the same as the Mustang [which is the same as the
Fairmont].  They can hold 460's, if you get the Kaufman kit, with the right
oil pan, engine mounts, etc.  I'd recommend going with a 302 or 351.  A
neat setup woul be to use the SVO 351W - the $4,000 one, if you can afford
it.  I hear they're coming out with a version that costs about $100 more than
the 302 SVO (really a 5.0L with GT40 heads).  Aside from dropping about 40
H.P. (346 vs. 385) the engine uses cast iron haeds, instead of aluminum.

It also costs about $1,300 less (list price of something lie $2,700).  And,
it should stand up better than the 302, thoguh I haven't had any problems
with the one in my GT (stock, no GT40 heads or anything else).

If you choose any of the SVO motors, you have to add either a carb, or (my
preference) fuel injection.  Also, you need to supply intake and exhaust
manifolds, etc.

Hope this helps.

> 
>----------
>Posted by: Met Razal 

Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"
 
						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!ARIEL.LERC.NASA.GOV!EDWLT12
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 02:41:10 1993
Subject: Re: thunderbird
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6257
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <_59y2j-@dixie.com>, you write...
> 
>> Date:  Thu, 2 Sep 93 14:28 EDT
>> From:  emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>> 
>>
>>-> so, can anyone recommend an engine they *KNOW* will fit?  I was
>>-> hoping it will take a 351, but i'm not terrible sure... i know they
>>-> put 302's in no problem...
> 
>> The 351 Windsor will fit.  You'll need the rear sump oil pan and pickup
>>from a late Lincoln, V8 engine mounts, and that's about it.
>>                     
> 
>But will the hood close :-)?  Up until the new "thin" front headlights
>and the more sloped hood ('91 or '92, I don't remember) the 302 would
>_barely_ fit, and a new plenum was used on the FI engines.  Since the
>new style front end and hood, you have to cut a hole in the hood to
>clear the 302 plenum.

WHOOOA!  You're talking a bird of a different feather :-).  Thi guy wants
to put the engine in an 87 T-bird, *not* '89 or newer (the cr was completely
redesigned in '89, the most notable thing being the independent rear suspension
IMHO).

As far as the new t-bird goes, looking under the hood of the SC would make me
opt for the 302, instead.  Almost as quick, and a lot easier to work on.

> 
>I don't recall the model year of the original car, but I don't think
>is was a '90s model, so I know a 302 can be made to fit.  I would not
>bet on the 351, unless it had some very low performance intake hacks
>(in which case you are better off with the 302), or you are ready to
>cut a hole in the hood.

Since it's an '87 there's no problem, to my knowledge.  Basically the same
car as the Mustang.
> 
> 
>	-- Dan
> 
> 
>----------
>Posted by: Dan Malek 


Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"
 
						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!ARIEL.LERC.NASA.GOV!EDWLT12
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 02:47:39 1993
Subject: Re: Computer Chip Data
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6258
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , you write...
>Regarding the deciphering of how GM does what, and Chrysler, too...
> 
>Has anybody thought of this?  The Diacom product seems to understand these
>boxes rather well, and it runs on a PC.  Why not run a disassembler on the
>Diacom software and figure out how it works, thereby learning the structure
>of the underlying GM product?  All the information needed must be in the
>Diacom software, and there are some decent PC disassemblers out there.

The problem is:  GM uses the 68HC11 on at least some of their cars (maybe
all?).  The PC uses anything from an 8088 to a Pentium.  The 'HC 11 is made
by Motorola, and the PC processors are made by Intel.  If you thought 
car engine swaps were tough...

What I'm getting at is that you're compounfing the problem.  Instead of
dealing with one assembly language, you're now dealing with two.

Yeah, there are some decent PC disassemblers out there, but the Diacon
S/W was probably written in C, so the resulting assembly code will probably
look like spaghettit code, compared to a poorly writeen BASIC program (and
I've written some poor BASIC programs :-) ).

Now, if you know which version of C they used, and if they were dumb enough
to have not turned off the debugging stuff...

> 
>Anybody tried it?  Seems a lot easier than the frontal assault on a ECU.
> 
>[as a matter of fact there is a lurker on this list who has written
>some code for the PC that will read the GM data stream and display
>it in real time.  Hopefully he's writing me an article on the subject :-)
>I'll let him stick his head up if he wants the attention.  Disassembling
>the Diacom software and figuring out what it means would be a daunting
>task.  The reason is, looking only at GM for a moment, the data format
>is not uniform between models or even ECU generations.  I'm less familiar
>with the Ford EEC-xx but I'd assume it to be at least as bad.

It's also hard-coded in ROM (no 'EP' in front, Ford uses masked rom 8097?
processors).  So, even if you can look at it, the only way to fix or change
the firmware is to replace the module.  Might as well start from scratch.
> 
>Hmm, with over 300 people on this list (and who knows how many reading
>alt.hotrod), looks like we could get some people interested in hacking
>the Calpack ROMs and posting the results.  JGD]

Sounds like the ROM you have is from a Buick GN, John.  Just a guess...
> 
>Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
> Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
>  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
>   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704
>     extra line in my .rsig
> 
>----------
>Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)


Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"
 
						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!ARIEL.LERC.NASA.GOV!EDWLT12
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 02:52:11 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6259
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Intake cooling
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1993 04:54:34 GMT
Lines: 15

Okay, I was just thinking today (Bad habit to get into, but....)

What would happen if you blocked off the heat passages in the intake
manifold (a known trick), but then plumbed water (coolant actually)
through them.  You would have to use a sepparate radiator, like a
tranny cooling one.  Put in an electric water pump, and voila!
Would it be worth the trouble?  Would it actually cool it down that
much?  What about if you have the water running through a cooling
can and use it only at the track?  Hmmmmm... Just a thought.

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 17:39:49 1993
Subject: Re: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6260
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> 
> -> >  The narrow rods came in the 307, 305, and all late model (mid '80s
> -> up) > 350s, including the LT-1.  I don't think the wide beam rod is
> -> being used > in production engines now.
> 
> > Are you talking about the new LT-1 or the original?
> 
> I don't know of any old-type LT-1s made in the '80s.  I had the
> impression the last original LT-1s were build in the early '70s.


That's why I was confused by your post in the first place,
Chevy didn't make any LT1's--(70's version, right? ;-) in the 
80's but in your post above you say "mid 80's up including the
LT1."

I sure hope you understand cuz now I'm really confused. 8-)



> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>  


                      
                                          
                     
                     |                    
                     | David Gunsul       
                     | mgwhiz!mogun!dcg@mgweed.att.com
                     |------------------------------------------------
                     |  It's amazing what $2,500 worth of big block
                     |  will do to $30,000 worth of high technology. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!mgwhiz!mogun!dcg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 17:47:39 1993
Subject: Re: Corvette Black Book
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6261
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you write:
>From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
>Subject: Corvette Black Book
>Date: Fri, 03 Sep 93 18:25:24 GMT



>Where can someone find one of these Corvette Black Books? It sounds
>like a wealth of knowledge.

You can pick them up at Waldenbooks.  If they don't have it in stock, they'
ll order it for you.  If you don't have a Waldenbooks, check one of your 
other local bookstores.  They sell for about $10.

Roger ...

----------
Posted by: "Roger D. Scott" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 17:55:25 1993
Subject: light weight
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6262
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> What is the lightest weight engine to get about 350-400 ft lb and
-> 350-400 hp, Calif street legal, streetable, reliable.

-> Is 300 lbs reasonable?

 No.


-> Is there a reasonable cost choice?

 No.
                                                                                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 18:00:37 1993
Subject: Re: '69 Camaro update
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6263
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> Thanks for everybody's advice and comments on building my 350 for my '69
> Camaro.  
> 
> To pass smog I'm leaving the stock 4bbl Q-Jet and intake and
> the stock distributor and coil.


Edelbrock's performer intake is smog legal and would probably work
very nicely with the set-up that you have planned.

Also: a nice MSD or other equivalent aftermarket ignition would 
DEFINITELY improve power over the stock system and this too would
be smog legal.




> 	Tom
> ----------
> Posted by: Tom Carver 

                      
                                          
                     
                     |                    
                     | David Gunsul       
                     | mgwhiz!mogun!dcg@mgweed.att.com
                     |------------------------------------------------
                     |  It's amazing what $2,500 worth of big block
                     |  will do to $30,000 worth of high technology. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!mgwhiz!mogun!dcg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 18:39:45 1993
Subject: Re: T400 Trannys 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6264
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>
>>The T400 is a bit longer than the T350, about 0.6 inches if you get
>>the short tailshaft model.
>
>The stock driveshaft may be able to take up this much differance.  I will
>have to check on that.

     I've done several T-350 -> T-400 conversions, and the driveshaft
has always fit.  Unlike T3/400 -> T700-R4 conversions. 8<

>> The mount is different; get a crossmember for the 400 and it will drop right
>> in.

>No good.  My Regal and other 78-87 G-bodies didn't come with the TH400 (to
>my knowledge).  Any other idea where I can find a crossmember?

     To your luck, the TH200-4R overdrive unit has the same (or
REALLY close) bellhousing to mount length.    The 200-4R was used in
the Buick GN and their relatives.    I don't know if the T400 mount
will just drop right in the hole on the TH200-4R x-member, but it
should be damm close.

     My only other question is would the T400 have any floorboard
clearance problems?
                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep  6 20:45:50 1993
Subject: Edelbrock products & 351W 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6265
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I was wondering if anyone found any advantage to using products from the same
manufacturer.  For example, in one of Edelbrock's ads they claim a 400HP, 412
ft/lbs torque 351W and list parts: Performer RPM Intake #7181, Performer RPM
cam #7182, Performer RPM cylinder heads #6025, Performer Series carb #1407,
and 1-3/4" headers.

Just change these parts with a stock 351W (9.5:1 CR and pump gas) and you'll
get 400 hp & 412 ft/lbs torque.  That sounds pretty impressive for a small 
block with a not so radical engine.

Is there any advantage to using parts from the same manufacuters?  It seems
like the manufacturer would make the parts so they "fit" perfectly.  But can
that really make any difference?

For example, instead of going all Edelbrock on the 351W, I could see buying
Dart heads, Holley carb, and any one of the numerous header and cam makers.

So which is better: staying with parts from one manufacturer or mixing and
matching.  I think the former would be better assuming the manufacturer can
make cams, heads, intakes, etc at least as well as their competitors.  But that
may not always be the case.

Advice and opinions would be appreciated.  Anyone know what the Edelbrock
set up would cost?  I think I'll call around and compare some prices...

----------
Posted by: emory!shell.portal.com!duel
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 15:40:46 1993
Subject: GM ECM Data Stream
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6266
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                          SUBJECT:  GM ECM Data Stream
Well, I guess *I'm* the lurker that John is referring to  ...  I've
hacked together a display program to display the GM C3 ECM data on a PC.  It
also records data to disk for about 300 seconds of data capture.  It works ok,
but isn't the most elegant code ... it uses a polling loop on the parallel port
to read the bits.  I'm having a *HELL* of time getting interrupt driven stuff
to run on my little XT laptop.

*** DISCLAIMER **** I HAD NO ACCESS TO GM OR DELCO PROPRIETARY DATA for this
project.  I used an O scope, a datascope, an OTC scan tool and the DiaCom
program in parallel with my code to capture bits, data and sensor values and to
observe what was in the data stream.  In other words, this was all reverse
engineered ... the HARD way I might add!   I had some help from a person
on the GN-T Type list in figuring out the bit encoding scheme.

A little GM ECM background ... there are two basic generations of ECM out there
... the C3 and the P4.  The C3 is the older generation and the one my GN uses. 
It uses a spare controller port to bang a bit to the ALDL whenever it has a
spare cycle or two ... hence the fact that the "baud rate" seems to drift.  The
P4 seems to use a more powerful processor and a more standard UART type of data
stream, although it also has an odd data rate of 8192 baud.  The P4 seems to
send variable length packets of data, with the length depending on the packet
type being sent.  I haven't had time to delve into this whole new world ... I'm
still working on getting interrupts to work on my PC!

I'm thinking of releasing my software as Shareware in conjuntion with an
article to PE ... I'd love to have some Messy DOS wizard write the interrupt
code for me and contribute it!  The polling stuff works, but tends to trash a
bit occaisonally ... seems to be interrupted?

Here's some hints with details to follow in PE :

1.  The bit encoding scheme is completely nonstandard.  It's kind of like the
ECM pings the line to tell you a bit is following, but it works well with the
PC parallel port architecture (and I don't suppose that's a coincidence either!
).

2.  The C3 ECM uses 25 byte fixed length packets.  When debugging, it's helpful
to use the PROM ID (2 bytes - #2 & #3) as a sign post in the frame.  Most scan
tools will display this ID and then you can look for it in the data stream.

3.  The C3 ECM has several "families" of similar data streams.  It seems that
most of the carbed models have very similar data streams ... my '84 Century
wagon with the carbed 3.0 V6 is about 90% the same as my mother-in-law's '86
Trans Am with the carbed 305.  Most of the FI models are related ... my GN is
about 60% the same as a friend's Fiero GT with the FI V6.

4.  The "baud" rate for the ALDL port is effectively about 166 baud ...
however, it drifts, depending on how busy the ECM is.  This gives you a frame
of data about every 1.5 seconds on average.

5.  The frames are separated by a 9 (or more) logical "1" bits.  The bytes are
unsigned and have one start bit.

6.  Several of the bytes in the frame contain bit oriented information,
including the trouble codes.  Some of these values are for switches/states,
like Park/Neutral (on or off), TCC (engaged or disengaged), A/F (Rich/Lean),
etc.

7.  The trouble codes are contained in 3 bytes, with each code taking one bit
in the bit mask.  This seems to be fairly standard among C3 families as far as
I've been able to tell.

8.  Many of the byte values require some sort of conversion factor to get
something that makes sense.  One value, the MAT sensor, is completely
non-linear and requires a table look up scheme.

I plan to write this stuff up for PE in detail ... stay tuned!



-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  A *BOOST* of Buick Performance

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 15:47:10 1993
Subject: Re: Coolant flow was-RE>>Warped
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6267
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>Related comments:  I have heard people make comments that if you take
>your thermostat out, the engine will run hotter at equilibrium because
>the coolant does not stay in the radiator long enough to give up its
>heat.  A couple incidents make me think this is not true.  It seems
>like the more coolant you can circulate, the better the cooling system
>will work.  

I agree.

>[This would be an FAQ if we had one :-)  The concept that a fluid
>could flow too fast to absorb heat is pretty silly, though
>it is one of those things that seems to have perpetual life.
>In general heat transfer terms, the higher the velocity the better.
>At least until the onset of cavitation.

>What DOES happen with some engines when the thermostat is removed
>is the pump has insufficient head and cavitates.  And the reduced
>pressure in the block and heads causes the onset of film boiling
>at hot spots which involves the formation of highly insulating steam
>layers on wetted surfaces.  Since the steam insulates the hot spot,
>the film grows and is self-perpetuating.  The restrictor (or thermostat)
>simply provides some back pressure which mitigates both cavitation and
>film boiling.  JGD]

I agree that cavitation is more likely to occur in the pump, which
can damage the pump, but after the fluid leaves the pump, where there
is no longer a 'vaccum' being pumped, the cavitation 'bubbles` will
be gone.  They won't act as steam pockets (or am I missing something

Mark W. Blunier  Blunier@cilantro.age.uiuc.edu

[Two separate issues.  A pump will cavitate if either its suction or 
discharge head is too low.  The thermostat (or restrictor) provides enough
backpressure to keep marginal pumps from doing so.  The problem is 
completely solved by replacing the pump with a more efficient/better
designed one such the Stewart pump.  

The other issue is what we refer
to in a nuclear reactor as DNB or Departure from Nucleatic Boiling.
Said condition in a reactor is a Class I unit trip signal (trip NOW,
don't wait for corrective action, don't pass go, don't collect $200 :-)
Nucleatic boiling is that point-source boiling you see in a kettle
when it first starts boiling where bubbles of steam form on a point.
While no boiling is most desirable, nucleatic boiling is the next 
best because it is an effective heat transfer mechanism.  If the heat
flux is sufficient to cause bulk boiling, a sheet of steam forms on
the hot surface.  This steam sheet is a poor conductor of heat so 
a regenerative process starts whereby the surface gets hotter because
it cannot reject its heat and the higher temperature accentuates the 
film boiling.  A common example of film boiling is when you plunge a red-hot
piece of steel into a bucket of water.  That shiny, shimmering film on
the metal that dissipates as it cools is film boiling.

The point at which DNB occurs depends on the heat flux, the boundary 
layer velocity and the pressure.  Since film boiling is regenerative,
once started, it continues until some other force overcomes it.
The standard 15 psi cooling system pressure is designed to raise the 
heat flux at which DNB occurs.  The thermostat/restrictor adds several
PSI of dynamic pressure.  If an area such as the exhaust port is marginal
with the thermostat installed, it WILL film boil without it.  And since
the film boiling is regenerative, it will spread to areas where it 
otherwise wouldn't happen, once started.  A classic example is my 
Rolls Knardley (68 Plymouth Fury).  With the radiator cap intact,
it does not overheat under any circumstance.  But with no pressure 
in the system, it will start overheating after several miles of even
mild highway driving.  I had to drive the car for several days with a
hole in the upper radiator tank so I had to accomodate this problem.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 15:58:22 1993
Subject: Re: Ford motors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6268
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
: The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
: : noticed you had both the cleveland and windsor 351's... so... which do you
: : prefer?

: Just split the difference: BOSS 302
: These days Windors are so much better supported (aftermarket heads, etc.)
: I wouldn't touch a Cleveland.
: - Phil

Your missing out on a lot then, The Cleveland is a sweet motor, right out
of the box. A few years back no one would consider building a Windsor. But
now, like you say, the aftermarket parts are available and the Cleveland
parts are getting scarce (but not that scarce). 

Which do I prefer?

I should note that my Cleveland was a 2V that I rebuilt with an aftermarket
intake (Edelbrock) that converts it to a four barrel set up. I also put
in a different cam (484/512 lift). The more I talk to people the more I
beleive this to be more of a "streetable" setup than the stock 4V. The valves
on the 2V are still plenty big enough (2.05" intake 1.66 exhaust)IMO. The 4V
Windsor I have has smaller valves, higher compression, roughly the same cam.

They are both close off the line, the higher compression in the Windsor is
nice, the cars are the same ratios. After 4 grand or so, the Cleveland just
pulls away, the top end on this car is scary. 

Just to compare, I built a Winsdor for a Bronco a couple of years back. I
spent way too much money, got too much advice from too many people. Ended up
with a $3500.00 motor, dynoed at 405hp (SAE net, Reid's Automotive, Brockton
MA). I always wanted to put this motor in a car some day, I think it would
have outperformed the Cleveland.

Bottom line: I like em' both 

--

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Steve D'Amelio  damelio@progress.com  |  69 Mustang 351W
                                      |  70 Mustang 351C
 #7 & #28                             |  88 Mustang 302  
                                      |  - 1,025hp -
                There's no replacement, for displacement.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


----------
Posted by: emory!elba.progress.COM!damelio (Stephen D'Amelio)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 16:08:07 1993
Subject: Re: TH350
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6269
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Mike Golden says:

>Okay, that makes the second junkyard TH350 tranny that has gone out on
>me.  This one isn't completely out, but it won't go into reverse! :-(

If you are tired of replacing transmissions, quit putting in junk!
Take your transmission to a reputable shop and have it rebuilt for your
application.  Chances are, if you deliver the tranny to them, you are
only looking at a $100-200 bill.  It really helps to _know_ the people
you are dealing with here, because transmissions are considered "voodoo"
by many.  Do not take it to AAMCO or another cheezy chain.  Find a
shop where you can talk to the person who will be doing the work.  

There is no replacement for experience; however, the B&M kits are
very easy to follow...   unless the tranny is going in something 
important, you might try rebuilding it yourself.  The parts are cheap!
Go for it!

>I put a B&M $20 shift kit on both of them.  Is this what killed them,
>or were they dead to start from?  The first one I got from the junkyard
>in questionable condition, and the second I got from a friend and had been
>lying around for  couple years.  I rinsed them both out with tranny fluid,
>installed the shift kit as the instructions said, and replaced the filter.

If you installed the kit correctly, that is _not_ the problem.  I have
known literally a dozen people to use these kits and work fine.  I put
the B&M shift improver kit ($19.95 back then :-) in my 4-door...  4 years
and 45,000 miles ago...  on the stock 110,000 mile TH-350!

>I am getting real tired of replacing trannys in this car.  The headers are
>in the way of just jacking it up, so we basically had to get two people to
>benchpress the tranny into place while a third started the bolts.  Not
>fun.  Thanks.

Yeah, it sucks for sure...  but you should keep the TH350!  As an
example, a friend running a '79 Malibu with a shift-improver-kit TH350
that runs 12 second 1/4's.

jC.  

jca@fibercom.com


----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James C. Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 16:51:12 1993
Subject: Motronic CHIPS .....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6270
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Although I am about to leave on vacation (09 - 21 SEP) I thought I would let
everyone know the status of the great Motronic hack of 1993

Hardware:

Siemens 80535 @ 12Mhz with proprietary support chip by Phillips

8k x 8 external SRAM by NEC

EPROM is 27256 (32k x 8)

Firmware:

0x0000-0x1fff is code in a mask ROM in the 80535 (515?)

0x2000-0x3fff is EPROM code which references ...

0x4000-0x4fff (approx) tables contained in EPROM (data MAPs)

0x5000-0x65ff are MAP's referenced by internal ROM code

0x6600-0x7fff is EPROM code which works with the 0x2000 - 0x3fff region

0x8000-0x9fff is contained in the prop. suppot chip (more ROM)

As soon as I can get my hands on a Siemens 80535/80515 data book set
more will be known ...

Bitte,

Jim Conforti
(87 325is / 92 325i)

---------------------------------
WORK: 1-800-288-8020 (x3406)
FAX: (801) 373-1889
INET: jec@cpu.us.dynix.com
---------------------------------


----------
Posted by: Jim Conforti 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 16:57:30 1993
Subject: Valve relief cutting tools
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6271
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


A shop recently botched a job flycutting my pistons.  The engine is
together and broken in and I'd really rather not take the bottom end
apart.  Isky makes a cutter to do the flycutting using the head and
valve guide as a jig.  Unfortunately nobody stocks them - they all order
from Isky.  The cutters are $75 each and the pilot is $22.  I'd buy them if
they were readily available.  Since they aren't, I'm thinking about making a
cutter.  Silver soldering or welding to a valve would seem to be the 
ticket.  Has anyone tried this?  I'll be ordering them tomorrow if I haven't
figured out a sound way to make them.

 Thanks,

  Brian


---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com

[silver-soldering a cutter to a valve works very well.  That's the way I've
always made small relief cuts to pistons.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!pms706.pms.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 17:02:54 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6272
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: T400 Trannys 
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <13_zvc-@dixie.com>
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1993 11:26:47 GMT
Lines: 36

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>>hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>     I've done several T-350 -> T-400 conversions, and the driveshaft
>has always fit.  Unlike T3/400 -> T700-R4 conversions. 8<

Cool.. This is looking better all the time.

>>No good.  My Regal and other 78-87 G-bodies didn't come with the TH400 (to
>>my knowledge).  Any other idea where I can find a crossmember?

>     To your luck, the TH200-4R overdrive unit has the same (or
>REALLY close) bellhousing to mount length.    The 200-4R was used in
>the Buick GN and their relatives.    I don't know if the T400 mount
>will just drop right in the hole on the TH200-4R x-member, but it
>should be damm close.

I'm not above fabrication.  (Obviously!  I'm driving a Chev-ick!)
Actually, the '77 Regal came with a 400, but they are an entirely different
frame.  Oh, well.

>     My only other question is would the T400 have any floorboard
>clearance problems?

Hmm... That might be a problem.. I don't really want to take a sledge-
hammer to my floor pan if I don't have to!

What was the final verdict on the "switch pitch" torque converters?  I know
that they probably wouldn't be as good as a fixed 3000 rpm stall one, but
for street/strip driving it sounds interesting.  Thanks for your help.

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 17:07:59 1993
Subject: Re: Ford motors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6273
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> -> These days Windors are so much better supported (aftermarket heads,
> -> etc.) I wouldn't touch a Cleveland.

>  Clevelands don't NEED aftermarket heads.  And once you buy a pair of
> Darts or whatever for your Windsor, you're still stuck with sucko
> Windsor intake manifolds.  There don't seem to be any decent ones around
> for the poor Windsor.  Slap on a set of Cleveland heads and a conversion
> intake, and you're ready to rock.
>                     

I completely aggree.  Clevelend heads came in both 2 and 4 barrel configs.  The 
2 barrel heads had valves larger than any chevy small block and, if memory 
serves, they were in the chevy big block range.  Also both had canted valves,
a la chevy big block.  
The 4 four barrel heads had valves big enough to throw a cat through, 
and the ports are almost large enough to fit a fist into (God, I miss my 
old one).  
The 4 barrel heads are perhaps too big for the street.  I know that some 
after market makers have made a 4 barrel intake manifold for the two barrel 
heads.  This, IMHO, would be a very hot street motor.



----------
Posted by: emory!marcam.com!edo (Ed Oriordan)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 18:46:23 1993
Subject: Re: GM ECM Data Stream
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6274
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

could someone post the subscribe address for the buick list?




----------
Posted by: Met Razal 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 18:51:33 1993
Subject: Re: Computer Chip Data - Its harder than you think
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6275
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Forget about which CPU the car uses.  You can get free
disassemblers for virtually every CPU.  Disassembling
the (E)EPROM code is a waste of time.  Sure you can do
it, but its not worth the time.  Here's why:

Ok, you got your 16k x 8 EPROM out of your '87
to '90(?) GM car.  You disassemble it.  Tell me which
is code and which is data.  You cant tell unless the
data all disassembles into illegal op-codes.  Fat chance.
If you are real bright and have a few months you may
be able to determine where the data tables are after
finding the *real* assembly code.

Great, you've got kilobytes of hex numbers as look-up
tables.  Look at John's earlier posting posting for
the fuel injector pulse.  It pulls a dozen values from
a dozen different tables.  And the equation to turn
on the radiator fan is just as complicated.  This could
take about a year with a logic analyzer.  If your
really serious create a mock-engine where you can hold
all the sensors at one state and let one sensor change.
Monitor all the equation changes and create a huge
matrix.  You might be able to figure it out.

Or do what the aftermarket chip guys do.  Infiltrate
the automaker and steal the EPROM listings.

I have replaced the GM EPROM from a '87 Sunbird Turbo
ECU with a EPROM emulator (something like dual-port RAM).
I then wrote some C code that allowed the user to change
the fuel vs. RPM table graphically.  The new table was
written to the emulator and the engine ran using the new
table.  The effects were recorded on the SuperFlow dyno.
The info was 'borrowed' from GM with something like an
academic license.  We were running the ECU in Ga. Tech's
Formula SAE car.  GM wont let us see their code for their
new ECU's.  After having looked at the EPROM listings I
quickly came to the conclusion that no one figures out what
these things do - they steal the code.

-tim





----------
Posted by: emory!spbted.gatech.edu!tim.drury
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep  7 19:01:32 1993
Subject: Holed Piston
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6276
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	This is a question about a puny little 360cc motorcycle engine, but
you may find it entertaining nonetheless.

	I pulled the top end of my CB360 apart yesterday, and I found the #1
piston had a hole in it, as I suspected from the amount of oil getting pumped
out of the exhaust pipe (in liquid form).

	Question #1:  if you holed a piston in your motor, would you tear down
the bottom end too and replace all the bearings and such, or just toss new
pistons in and button it up?

	This is my very first motor teardown/rebuild, so I'm leaning towards
taking it all apart and putting modern bearings in the bottom end as opposed
to the 1975 Honda pieces, which are of dubious quality.  I assume bearings
have gotten much better in the intervening years.

	Question #2:  will bearings for the beast be available from a local
bearing supply shop?  I assume I can get better and cheaper bearings from
there than I can from American Honda.

	Question #3:  Does TRW have pistons for motorcycles?  This piece is
cast aluminum, about 66mm in diameter.  One side shows severe galling, so I
will definitely have to go oversize to do a cleanup bore on the cylinder (so
I have to do the same with the other to have a matched set).  If you were
building a motor for a commuter vehicle that you wanted to last a long time,
would you stick with cast aluminum or go with something fancier, like a
hypereutetic job?  How much would it cost?  Again, I assume that I can get
pistons of higher quality and lower cost from TRW than I can from American
Honda.

	Question #4:  If I pull the lower end apart, would it be worthwhile to
use fresh rod bolts, or is it okay to reuse what I have?  Is it worthwhile to
magnaflux the stuff?  How much would that cost?

	Now, the hotrod part:  I figured as long as I have it apart, I might
as well clean up the ports and maybe degree the cam.  I am an absolute newbie
at this, so any informative, yet conservative, recommendation would be
helpful.  Also, is there anything (cheap) that I can do to the combustion
chambers that would have some productive contribution?  I figure picking up a
few ponies would let me change the gearing so that I can have a slightly
smoother ride on the highway.  This motorcycle's main purpose will be getting
me the 18 miles to school and back while I take some night classes.

	The goal is to build a very durable motor that maybe pulls a wee bit
more strongly than stock.  As I said, I'm cutting my teeth on this motor, so
help would be appreciated.  It was fun pulling the top end apart, now I want
to make sure everything goes together correctly.

Thanks,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

[ Ahh, a motorcycle from my era :-) That bike likely uses a
pressed-together crank with needle bearings on the rods and ball
bearings on the mains.  You won't be able to replace anything except the
outboard main bearings if that is the case.  Not to worry, though.
They're likely still in perfect condition.  You MUST tear down the
engine and get all that crud out of the bottom end but the bearings
should not have been harmed.

TRW doen't make bike pistons that I know of but Wiesco does.  Unless
you really want to hotrod the thing, I recommend just using stock
Honda pistons.  Cheaper than Wiesco and probably more durable for
street use.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 09:22:10 1993
Subject: Performance Engineering
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6277
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

John,

You have my curiosity up!

You have plugged and referred to Performance Engineering as your magazine.    Other than this, I have never heard of it.  Sorry.  Anyway,
is it an e-mail magazine, or a bound edition?  What is the mission or target
market for the publication, etc.  (Here's your chance to 'sell' it to me.)  Are
you only the publisher?

[Hmm, guess I haven't really plugged it recently.  Advertisement follows.
It is a conventional paper mag.  I'm the publisher and a major writer.
Other writers are on this list.  It is subscription- and mail-order only.
It is not on the newsstands because (guess what) the distributors seem
to want to keep all the profits while requiring me to absorb all the risk
in the form of buybacks.

The mission is simple - to hit the high- tech niche of high performance
with the same kind of in-depth articles computer magazines like Byte and
Dr.  Dobbs used to publish.  There is a heavy concentration on
construction projects.  My expertise is instrumentation, electronics and
engine management so guess what I write about :-) I hope to have ("hope" as
in I gotta deliver a #11 to the rear end of a certain author or two :-)
some heavy articles on advanced fabrication techniques such as
composites.  A free sample is available.  When I have the money (which is
rare these days) I mail them at no cost.  A more reliable way to get
the sample is to send a SASE (domestic only) to Performance Engineering
Magazine, PO Box 669728 Marietta, Ga 30066.  Foreign requests must
send money sufficient for postage on 2 ounces. This varies by country
so I can't quote hard numbers.  If you want to take a chance on 
the free postage, send your name and address to perform@dixie.com.
A copy of the current issue can be ordered from the same postal address
for $6 domestic, US$7.00 Canadian and $US6.00 + postage foreign.  
Subscriptions are $32.95 US, US$37.95 Canadian and US$57.95 Air mail 
foreign for 6 issues delivered irregularly. My target is quarterly but
the amount of time it takes to design, build and write about something
significant takes a lot of time, more than I thought it would.  JGD]

You seem to have some good experiences with EFI, etc.  What is your background?
I'm looking to go deeper into engine and fuel management and am casually
searching for more information and resources.  Thanks.

[Trained as a health-physicist and nuclear instrument specialist. Got tired
of that and decided to be a programmer a few years ago.  Got tired of that
and decided to do the mag.  Used to race motorcycles on a regional 
professional level, driven a few races in a dirt stock car, 
have owned a motorcycle shop, a welding supply company, a refrigeration 
service company and an auto service shop.  My engine management experience
has been gained the old fashioned way - by hacking, reverse engineering,
researching, networking, pestering people and experimenting.  JGD]

Jim
----------
Posted by: Jim Meyer 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 09:28:18 1993
Subject: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6278
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I plan on having some spare time to put together a project car or truck.
I want to have a quick vehicle but also have it be something a little
out of the ordinary.  I think it would be cool to have a diesel that
can beat most of the 'sports' cars that are now being sold.  It seems that
this would require a really big eninge in a full size truck, or a big engine
in a small truck.  The best combination that I can think of would be one
of the diesels put in the full size pickups in a small truck.  I am partial
to chevy, but feel that the Cummins diesel that goes in the Dodge is a
better engine.  It also seem like shoehorning the GM Diesel (or Fords) diesel
in a baby truck would be a bigger headache than I am prepared for in my
first project.  Since I know very little about Mopar I have lots of questions.

1.  Will the Cummins diesel fit in the Dakota?
2.  What kind of Trannys will handle the Diesel?
 2a.  Are they put in the Dakota normally?
3.  Would I need to get a stronger rear end?
4.  I have been told that Cummins has a couple of other versions of the
same engine that put out more power.  Is this true?  Would there be any
problems with using one of these?
5.  Is getting a strong enough suspension going to be a problem?
6.  Is there going to be a problem running stuff that uses engine vacuum?

Thanks.
Mark W. Blunier
mwb5489@age2.age.uiuc.edu




----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 15:43:08 1993
Subject: Buick list address
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6279
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Met Razal wanted the Buick (T-Type/GN/TR) list.

It is-  Gnttype-request@srvsn2.monsanto.com

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 15:47:04 1993
Subject: Forwarded: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6280
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Forwarded mail follows:

I plan on having some spare time to put together a project car or truck.
I want to have a quick vehicle but also have it be something a little
out of the ordinary.  I think it would be cool to have a diesel that
can beat most of the 'sports' cars that are now being sold.  It seems that
this would require a really big eninge in a full size truck, or a big engine
in a small truck.  The best combination that I can think of would be one
of the diesels put in the full size pickups in a small truck.  I am partial
to chevy, but feel that the Cummins diesel that goes in the Dodge is a
better engine.  It also seem like shoehorning the GM Diesel (or Fords) diesel
in a baby truck would be a bigger headache than I am prepared for in my
first project.  Since I know very little about Mopar I have lots of questions.

< well, I don't think you can achieve your goal in a conventional-sense.  what
I mean by that is that the Cummins 'B-engines' do not have a very wide rpm
range -- they idle at 750rpm and max rpm is around 2800... this gives a fairly
narrow useable range.  a 'stop-light-grande-prix' winner is probably out of the
question.  further, the lightest member of the B5.9 (the six cylinder engines)
weighs over 900lbs dry and minus electrics.  the B3.9 might be a bit more
realistic for a Dakota or other downsized truck (it's a four cylinder with 120
hp at 2500 and 320 lb-ft at 1700), I don't recall its weight, however.  the GM
6.5 in an S-10 might be more feasable as that engine is a lightweight (both in
mass and, sadly, output).  the Cummins would turn the frame of anything other
than the fullsize Dodges into pretzels.  no flamage, please -- this statement
is based upon seeing *smallblock* gas engines flex the frames of trucks at the
truckpulls and these engines deliver no where near the 400lb-ft of the Cummins
B5.9-160... my Dodge frame does *not* flex...  well, that said, on to your
questions... WK>

1.  Will the Cummins diesel fit in the Dakota?

< I doubt there's sufficient clearance for the height of the engine, visit your
nearest Cummins distributor and pick up the data sheets on the B-series
engines... also, ask about availability of re-built A-series engines as these
are somewhat smaller and more likely to be reasonable to use in your
application... WK>

2.  What kind of Trannys will handle the Diesel?

< they've gotta be capable of handling in excess of 400lb-ft of torque... and
they have to be adaptable to the available flywheel housings on the engine...
WK>

 2a.  Are they put in the Dakota normally?

< nope... I doubt they're put in abnormally, either :-)  WK>

3.  Would I need to get a stronger rear end?

< absolutely!  like nothing smaller than a Dana 70!!! WK>

4.  I have been told that Cummins has a couple of other versions of the
same engine that put out more power.  Is this true?  Would there be any
problems with using one of these?

< no problem, other than ability of drivetrain parts to survive... the Getrag
360, NP205 and Dana 60 (front) and Dana 70 (rear) are not up to much more than
the B5.9-160 delivers... and yes there are several variants -- B5.9-160,
B5.9-190, B5.9-210, B5.9-230, marine engines of various output exceeding
300hp... not to mention the four cylinder B-series engines... WK>

5.  Is getting a strong enough suspension going to be a problem?

< not once you get 2500lb capacity springs in the front and a 4500lb axle up
front...  WK>

6.  Is there going to be a problem running stuff that uses engine vacuum?

< nope... that's the least of the problems... there are vacuum pumps available
that run off the engine... WK>

< one final note -- these engines are *expensive* -- $7200+ for a B5.9-160, for
example... WK>

Thanks.
Mark W. Blunier
mwb5489@age2.age.uiuc.edu
----------
 



-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 16:01:13 1993
Subject: Re: Best distributor vacuum source?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6281
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have a question of what vacuum port to use for my distributor.  It's a
recurved HEI-unit sitting on a Chevy 350 (pre computer).  I run 18 dgr
BTDC at idle but still get a bit low intake vacuum as I've got a
performance cam.  The idle is also a bit rough

I tried to connect the distributor vacuum hose to the full vacuum port
on the carb (it's a Holley 4bbl 4160) and noticed an improvement in
vacuum and idle quality.  It's my understanding that the ported vacuum
port on the holley delays vacuum advance until 1500rpm.

Is there any danger in using the full vacuum port?  I haven't checked
the timing with the full vacuum port but I'd suspect it's well over 25
dgr.  When reading magazines it's said one should always use the ported
vacuum, but I read a book called something like 'Camaro performance and
handling guide' or similar and they said to use full vacuum.

I'm getting confused here...please help me out.

Thanx 

Markus ('75 Camaro 350/350)

PS, the car runs great except for the somewhat rough idle. 

----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 16:09:19 1993
Subject: Re: Computer Chip Data - Its harder than you think
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6282
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Tim (et. al.)

Here's how I disassembled Motronic ... 

Using an 8051 disasm. pgm. (DIS8051 ver F.)
I got source code ...

Now which is data and which is code ?? hmm..

Well in the 8051, the way to move DATA out of CODE address space is the

     movc a,@a+dptr instruction ...

The dptr is loaded by 

     mov dptr,#HHLL which assembles to hex 90 HH LL

Using a REAL kludgy code scanner I recorded ALL incidents of 90 and then
saved the next two bytes as addresses to the start of a MAP 

Using the disassembler tag file, I tagged the region (approx.) from
0x4000 - 0x4fff as DB (MAPs) ...

With a little inside info, I found out that the EPROM is executed from
0x2000 up, the 0x0000-0x1fff region is ROM onboard the 80515

Adjusting the tag file and disasm'ing showed a bunch of "unresolved
address references in the region of "0x5000 - 0x6600" ...

After some thought, I had it figured out, ..

0x0000 - 0x1fff (Main internal code .. I need a friend at BOSCH!)
0x2000 - 0x3fff (Engine specific subroutines / interrupt service code)
0x4000 - 0x4fff (Data MAPs used by the EPROM subroutines)
0x5000 - 0x65ff (THIS IS THE GOOD STUFF!!!)
0x6600 - 0x7fff (More Engine specific subroutines working with 0x2000-3fff)

The MAIN MAPS in the region 0x5000 - 65ff are only refernced by ROM code
contained in the 80515 .. Now either a REAL cracking effort, or some 
friends at BOSCH are needed to get the std 8k of ROM code and also the
code contained in the support chip (Yes, it seems Motronic has TWO ROMs
just to make life a little more difficult!)

Such is the current state of Motronic ... when I get back from vacation,
hopefully my SIEMENS 80535/515 databooks will be in and I can complete
my schematics of the Motronic circuitry ... then whith a little more work,
I'll have it all figured out ... (Yeah, right)


Oh, BTW, you might be surprized at how Motronic handles the spark timing
and dwell .. since it gets two signals, reference (1 pulse per 360deg) and
speed (N pulses per 360deg) .. It has a custom chip to run an angle counter
and comparator to fire coil ...

I'm going to simulate this using some std hardware: .. run the speed
signal thru a PLL (with div. by 3 in the feedback) setup to provide a
3x freq... count this in a counter, while comparing it to some latched
values (dwell and spark) in 8-bit identity comparators.. the comps output
to a flip-flop which thru an ignitor fires the coil ... a third comparator
will provide the reset signal to the counter ... all the CPU will need do
is look at inputs, go to a MAP or three and output two values to the
latched comparator registers .. the hardware does the timing for me :)


Oh well ... time to get ready for the vacation ...

Bitte,

Jim Conforti
(87 325is / 92 325i)

---------------------------------
WORK: 1-800-288-8020 (x3406)
FAX: (801) 373-1889
INET: jec@cpu.us.dynix.com
---------------------------------


----------
Posted by: Jim Conforti 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 16:27:31 1993
Subject: NSRA Nationals North
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6283
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Just a note for those of you who enjoy looking at some fine craftsmanship. The
National Street Rod Association will be conducting their Street Rod National
North auto show, swap meet and manufacturers exhibits Friday, Saturday and
Sunday September 17, 18, and 19 at the Kalamazoo County Fairgrounds in
Kalamazoo, Michigan. The times for each day are Friday 09:00 A.M. to 06:00
P.M. -  Saturday 09:00 A.M. to 06:00 P.M. and Sunday 09:00 A.M. to 02:00 P.M.

In 1992 their were over 2400 street rods on exhibit and this year there is
expected to be more. This is a first class street rod show and we are very
fortunate to have it here in Kalamazoo. If you want to get some good ideas for
your next project come on out and see what other folks have done.

Kalamazoo, Michigan is located half way between Detroit and Chicago,
approximately 42 miles north of the Indiana line and 53 miles west of lake
Michigan. To get to Kalamazoo and the Fairgrounds take interstate 94 (I-94) to
exit 80 (Sprinkle Road exit). Take sprinkle road north to Lake Street
(approximately 3 miles). Turn left (West) on lake street and follow lake until
you get to the fairgrounds (Aprox. 1 1/2 miles). If you are coming from the
east (Detroit) you can exit at the I-94 business loop and turn right (North)
at the Sprinkle Road intersection and follow the rest of the directions given
above.

I hope to see you there. If you have any questions or need more info I can be
reached at 616-384-3927 06:30 A.M. to 15:00 P.M. or 616-694-5124 17:00 A.M. to
22:00 P.M. ask for Roger.

Roger Hensley
Patriot Motorsports
1099 N. 16th St.
Otsego, MI 49078

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Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 16:43:49 1993
Subject: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota repost
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6284
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> Forwarded message:
> > From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 09:25:06 1993
> > 
> > I plan on having some spare time to put together a project car or truck.
> > I want to have a quick vehicle but also have it be something a little
> > out of the ordinary.  I think it would be cool to have a diesel that
> > can beat most of the 'sports' cars that are now being sold.  It seems that
> > this would require a really big eninge in a full size truck, or a big engine
> > in a small truck.  The best combination that I can think of would be one
> > of the diesels put in the full size pickups in a small truck.  I am partial
> > to chevy, but feel that the Cummins diesel that goes in the Dodge is a
> > better engine.  It also seem like shoehorning the GM Diesel (or Fords) diesel
> > in a baby truck would be a bigger headache than I am prepared for in my
> > first project.  Since I know very little about Mopar I have lots of questions.
> > 
> > 1.  Will the Cummins diesel fit in the Dakota?
> > 2.  What kind of Trannys will handle the Diesel?
> >  2a.  Are they put in the Dakota normally?
> > 3.  Would I need to get a stronger rear end?
> > 4.  I have been told that Cummins has a couple of other versions of the
> > same engine that put out more power.  Is this true?  Would there be any
> > problems with using one of these?
> > 5.  Is getting a strong enough suspension going to be a problem?
> > 6.  Is there going to be a problem running stuff that uses engine vacuum?
> > 
> > Thanks.
> > Mark W. Blunier
> > mwb5489@age2.age.uiuc.edu

	First off, note that in the late 40's Cummins won at Indy 3 years in
a row and would have made it at least 4 or 5 if they hadn't decided to limit
the cars to run on gasoline. They can be real fast!

	Now, answers.

1. Not easily. This is a 360 inch inline 6, == real long. It is also very
   heavy.

2. Early on, they mated it to the heavy duty 4 spd manual used with the 360
   V8. This was a stopgap implementation as the relatively narrow operating
   range of the diesel doesn't match well with the ratio spread of this trans.
   Later the manual trans was a special 5 speed made unit from Getrag in
   Germany, probably based on the one used in Magaruse - Deutz trucks. They
   also have a 4 speed automatic, You should see if you can get a test drive
   in a couple of D250's and compare performance between the 5 speed and the
   automatic. It is possible that the auto is faster, but I prefer a manual
   trans because that is what I am used to in a truck.

2a. No. Dakota normally gets the relatively wimpy 5 speed that comes with
    the V6, or a torqueflyte with a V6 or 318. They won't sell a Dakota 318
    with a manual trans because the truck is so light they don't think most
    drivers can manage it.

3.  Absolutely! This engine produces 440 ft/lb of torque in stock form, and
    can be upgraded to 480 ft/lb! You should also seriously consider beefing
    up the frame if you make this swap.

4.  Your local Cummins dealer can upgrade it to produce about 215 - 230 HP and
    460 - 480 ft/lb torque. These are happy times, last year Cat introduced a
    competing engine and sparked a horsepower war.

5.  Probably. It may be possible to adapt the D/W 250 suspension components to
    the Dakota frame, but it will be difficult. The reason that this engine is
    not offered on the D/W 150 is that the engineers didn't feel the 1/2 ton
    suspension could handle it.

6.  No problem there, the Dodge version of this engine comes with a vacuum
    pump. Cummins can also add a compressor if you want to use air horns etc.

Ed Campbell

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Posted by: emory!tekelec.com!ed (Ed Campbell)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 16:46:18 1993
Subject: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6285
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I want to have a quick vehicle but also have it be something a little
>out of the ordinary.  I think it would be cool to have a diesel that
>can beat most of the 'sports' cars that are now being sold.  It seems that
>this would require a really big eninge in a full size truck, or a big engine
>in a small truck.  The best combination that I can think of would be one
>of the diesels put in the full size pickups in a small truck.  I am partial
>to chevy, but feel that the Cummins diesel that goes in the Dodge is a
>better engine.  It also seem like shoehorning the GM Diesel (or Fords) diesel
>in a baby truck would be a bigger headache than I am prepared for in my
>first project.  Since I know very little about Mopar I have lots of questions.

The diesels I've driven have had high torque ratings, but low max hp ratings.
Seems to me this would be a poor choice for a sport truck?  Also they seem to
spool up to high RPM's relatively slowly, also counterproductive to sporty
performance in a light vehicle.
>
>1.  Will the Cummins diesel fit in the Dakota?

Anything can be _made_ to fit, but it seems to me the Cummins engine is a fair
bit longer than the Dakota engine compartment.  (It's long in the full sized
pickup engine compartment.)

>2.  What kind of Trannys will handle the Diesel?

It would have to be a high-torque unit.  The 5-speeds are wide ratio Getrag
units, I'm not sure about the automatics.

> 2a.  Are they put in the Dakota normally?

No.

>3.  Would I need to get a stronger rear end?

Possibly.  The 4-cylinder Dakotas come with 7 1/4" rears, which would be right
out.  I'm not sure whether the 9 1/4" is available or not.  The 8 1/4" would
probably be marginal.  According to a friend of mine who used to work at a
Dodge parts counter, the Dana axle available in vans should drop in under the
Dakota.  (He learned this when he was replacing the 7 1/4" he grenaded on his
Dakota a few years ago.)

>6.  Is there going to be a problem running stuff that uses engine vacuum?

Take a look at how they're running the brake booster on the full sized trucks
with the Cummins.  They've got to do it somehow.
>
>Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
>
David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 16:50:16 1993
Subject: Re: Storage at HUD apartment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6286
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


About the storage at your apartment: I think you might be able to get by
with a non-operational vehicle registration.  These are about $6 from
the DMV.  You could call HUD to find out if this is enough.

Paul

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Posted by: emory!everest.tandem.com!paul (Paul Duffy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 16:55:14 1993
Subject: Fuel injection question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6287
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Let me get this straight- Multi port injection means the injectors ALL
squirt at the same time, spiting raw fuel onto an intake valve when it
doesn't need it?  Sequential port fuel injection means the injector only
fires when the intake valve opens?  Right??

Doesn't this mean that MPI wastes fuel like crazy?  That all the
injectors squirt and one cylinder fires?  Please clear this up; MPI
makes no sense

Frank

[You are correct that multi-port (or more generically, batch injection)
injection fires either all the injectors at once or fires them in two
banks.  It is not true that sequential injection fires only during the 
intake valve opening.  Why batch injection doesn't waste fuel is easier
to understand when you realize that in order to achieve sufficient 
turndown at idle, the injector must be sized so it is open almost 
continuously at WOT and redline.  Thus at power both systems spend
at least part of the time firing against closed valves.  No major
consequence, for the gas is vaporized readily by the combination of 
hot valve and the atomizing effect of the valve cracking open against
a partial vacuum.

Sequential injection brings benefits primarily in the areas of emissions
and part throttle response.  The most sophisticated systems vary the 
opening time such that the injector always closes with the intake valve.
This ensures the idle and part throttle injection - where the volumes are
tiny and emissions requirements are the most severe - the fuel IS injected
into an open port.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 17:04:41 1993
Subject: 350 Target Master Engine Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6288
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have recently come into possesion of a Chevy 350 Target Master
replacement engine, and want to know what parts I should expect
to find in it. Namely, which cam shaft, valves, heads, etc were
used in a 350 Target Master engine orig purchased in '88 or '89.
The block has a part number of 10066036 behind the left head cast 
in the block. 

My goal is to come up with a late model LT1 equivalent, including
TPI. Will this be cost effective startig off with the low mileage
350 mentioned above, or should I just find a late model Vette that
no one is using?

Any info appreciated.

conrad.frank@quotron.com

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Posted by: emory!godzilla.quotron.com!conrad (Conrad Frank)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 17:06:57 1993
Subject: Re: GM ECM Data Stream
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6289
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>>GM ECM Data Stream
[...could someone post the subscribe address for the buick list?...]


gnttype@srvsn2.monsanto.com

Lots of discussion, mainly revolving around racing.

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... I love the smell of burning rubber in the morning ..."


----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 18:40:25 1993
Subject: Overdrive blower pulley.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6290
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

   Now that 4 years has elapsed since the introduction of the T-bird SC, has
anyone out there install the undersized/overdrive supercharge pulley to see
what happens?  Does it twist the crankshaft up like a pretzel?  Pound a
few bearings into mylar thin sheets of aluminum leaf?

----------
Posted by: Gordon Laird 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 18:49:35 1993
Subject: Ford 9" rears
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6291
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm mostly a Chevy man, but I have a Ford question:

Is there an easy way to spot a Ford 9" rear end in a wrecking yard (as
compared to a Ford 8" rear).  Do all the full sized Fords have 'em, or only
the ones with big blocks?  Also, I've heard of 28 and 31 spline axles.  Which
ones are better and why?  Did many  full-sized Fords come with posi (or
whatever Ford calls it)?

Thanks for the info!

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep  8 19:17:49 1993
Subject: Holed Piston
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6292
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Chris BeHanna writes:

[..]

>	I pulled the top end of my CB360 apart yesterday, and I found the #1
>piston had a hole in it, as I suspected from the amount of oil getting pumped
>out of the exhaust pipe (in liquid form).
>
>	Question #1:  if you holed a piston in your motor, would you tear down
>the bottom end too and replace all the bearings and such, or just toss new
>pistons in and button it up?

Clean it out, check the crank for excess play and check the bearings
to make sure they're ok.

>	This is my very first motor teardown/rebuild, so I'm leaning towards
>taking it all apart and putting modern bearings in the bottom end as opposed
>to the 1975 Honda pieces, which are of dubious quality.  I assume bearings
>have gotten much better in the intervening years.

Probably not enough to make a difference for street use.

>	Question #2:  will bearings for the beast be available from a local
>bearing supply shop?  I assume I can get better and cheaper bearings from
>there than I can from American Honda.

Probably not.

>	Question #3:  Does TRW have pistons for motorcycles?  This piece is
>cast aluminum, about 66mm in diameter.  One side shows severe galling, so I
>will definitely have to go oversize to do a cleanup bore on the cylinder (so
>I have to do the same with the other to have a matched set).

Measure (or have your machinist do it) the inside of the cylinders
for roundness, taper, and wear.   Measure the pistons also, and
replace if they're too badly scored or the piston-cylinder clearance is
out of spec, then replace or rebore and replace.

>If you were
>building a motor for a commuter vehicle that you wanted to last a long time,
>would you stick with cast aluminum or go with something fancier, like a
>hypereutetic job?

The pistons you have are probably forged.  Japanese (motorcycle)
pistons are generally very good quality, and you should use the
OEM ones if you can.  I put Wiseco pistons in my RZ350 (two-stroke
twin) racer because I couldn't find any Yamaha pistons to fit a
.75mm overbore.  They're already scored in < 100 miles of running.
I hear that their 4-stroke pistons are much better.  LA Sleeve
supposedly carries ART pistons (OEM to most Japanese motorcycle
makers).

>How much would it cost?

RZ pistons cost ~$50-60 each.  Replace the piston pins, and the small-end
bearings if they're needle bearings (probably not).

>	Question #4:  If I pull the lower end apart, would it be worthwhile to
>use fresh rod bolts, or is it okay to reuse what I have?

You probably have a pressed-together roller-bearing crank.  So
there'd be no rod bolts.  Your shop manual should tell you how to
check the crank (or have your machinist do it).  If it isn't out
of spec don't mess with it.

> Is it worthwhile to
>magnaflux the stuff?

Yes, if it's getting pressed apart for bearing replacement etc.

>  How much would that cost?

Dunno.  It was included in the base price last time I had a crank rebuilt.

>	Now, the hotrod part:  I figured as long as I have it apart, I might
>as well clean up the ports and maybe degree the cam.  I am an absolute newbie
>at this, so any informative, yet conservative, recommendation would be
>helpful.

Don't touch it.  That's as conservative as you can get. :-)
Other than that, you should match the manifolds and gaskets and clean
out any gross casting/manufacturing errors (seams, etc) in the ports.
Other then that, leave it alone, unless you get good advice from
a CB360 expert.

>  Also, is there anything (cheap) that I can do to the combustion
>chambers that would have some productive contribution?

Polish them (I use a tiny wire brush in a Dremel tool) to slow
carbon build-up.  Lap the valves.


>	The goal is to build a very durable motor that maybe pulls a wee bit
>more strongly than stock.  As I said, I'm cutting my teeth on this motor, so
>help would be appreciated.  It was fun pulling the top end apart, now I want
>to make sure everything goes together correctly.

Good luck, and have fun.
Replace the cam chain while you're in there.

----------
Posted by: emory!angst.MicroUnity.com!ericm (Eric Murray)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 01:47:53 1993
Subject: RE: 350 Target Master Engine Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6293
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I have recently come into possesion of a Chevy 350 Target Master
>replacement engine, and want to know what parts I should expect
>to find in it. Namely, which cam shaft, valves, heads, etc were
>used in a 350 Target Master engine orig purchased in '88 or '89.
>The block has a part number of 10066036 behind the left head cast 
>in the block. 

Junk block (bad casting - thin walls)
Junk crank (cheap cast crank - might be O.K. for <350 hp)
Junk connecting rods
Junk pistons
Junk heads.

>My goal is to come up with a late model LT1 equivalent, including
>TPI. Will this be cost effective startig off with the low mileage
>350 mentioned above, or should I just find a late model Vette that
>no one is using?

Equivalent how?

The late model LT1 has reverse flow cooling (something I'd like) and 
therefore a unique block.  If you realy want an LT1 you'll need to start 
with an LT1 block.

If you just want the power of an LT1 (or more) I'd look at some of the 
aftermmarket engine sources.  It'll cost somewhere between $1500 and $3000 
to rebuild an engine.  The more money the better the parts.

I like starting with 4-bolt main block (some hp 350 and most truck 350's)
Don't worry about the main cap material (If your going to break iron caps 
you going to brake nodular iron ones as well).
Early thick beam steel connecting rods.
For <450hp and no nitros - top quality cast pistons (Keith Black etc)
For nitros etc or >450 go for forged pistons
 - Flat top pistons!!!!
DartII cylinders - the bargain cylinder heads for chevies
 - 72cc should give you about 9.0:1 compression (or a tad more)
 - pump gas 89 octain :-) (cheap stuff)

Intake, cam, exhaust to match your power-band (the Dart II's are good for 
slightly elevated rpm ranges - 2.02 intakes and 1.60 exhaust)

Use top quality bolts (ARP or SPS etc) - saving a few pennies here is not 
worth it IMHO.
Go buy the "How to blue print your engine" - good starting point
Read the above book.

Take parts to quality machine shop (If he doesn't do high performance / race 
engines go someware else - when every fraction of a hp counts tight 
tolerances are a must).

Proper machine work and the pistons will seal for 80K miles bad work -> 40K 
miles

I just finished spending $2700 on a small block chevy ($1100 trying to get 
the heads to flow like Dart II's - big waste of money)  Thats $1100 in 
machining / some small parts and the rest on the other parts - no intake 
yet.  If you really want I can double check the receipts.

Good Luck
Dirk


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 01:54:45 1993
Subject: Holed Piston
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6294
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> hypereutetic job?  How much would it cost?  Again, I assume that I
-> can get pistons of higher quality and lower cost from TRW than I can
-> from American Honda.

 I've found Honda's prices to be quite reasonable, unlike Suzuki, who
wants both testicles and a leg.  Wiseco, Powroll, and (I think) Jahns
make pistons for the CB, but they're probably more expensive than Honda.
                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 01:59:25 1993
Subject: Forwarded: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota repost
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6295
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Forwarded mail follows:

< much deleted... WK>

> > 1.  Will the Cummins diesel fit in the Dakota?
> > 2.  What kind of Trannys will handle the Diesel?
> >  2a.  Are they put in the Dakota normally?
> > 3.  Would I need to get a stronger rear end?
> > 4.  I have been told that Cummins has a couple of other versions of the
> > same engine that put out more power.  Is this true?  Would there be any
> > problems with using one of these?
> > 5.  Is getting a strong enough suspension going to be a problem?
> > 6.  Is there going to be a problem running stuff that uses engine vacuum?
 
> > Thanks.
> > Mark W. Blunier
> > mwb5489@age2.age.uiuc.edu




3.  Absolutely! This engine produces 440 ft/lb of torque in stock form, and
    can be upgraded to 480 ft/lb! You should also seriously consider beefing
    up the frame if you make this swap.

< ummm, a *little* exageration here -- the B5.9-160 variant installed by
Chrysler Motors is rated at 160hp @ 2500 and 400lb-ft @ 1600.  through addition
of an air-to-water aftercooler (note *correct nomenclature*) torque can be
readily increased to 450lb-ft... this is sufficient to damage the transmission
(ref: conversation with staff at Cummins Intermountain in Las Vegas, NV).
beefing up the frame is an understatement... the D/W250 frame is identical in
Diesel trucks to the D/W350 frame... and considerably beefier than the gasoline
truck's frame (ref: 1990 Dodge service manual).  WK>

4.  Your local Cummins dealer can upgrade it to produce about 215 - 230 HP and
    460 - 480 ft/lb torque. These are happy times, last year Cat introduced a
    competing engine and sparked a horsepower war.

< *which* Cat?  the B5.9-230 makes 605lb-ft, by the way...  WK>


5.  Probably. It may be possible to adapt the D/W 250 suspension components to
    the Dakota frame, but it will be difficult. The reason that this engine is
    not offered on the D/W 150 is that the engineers didn't feel the 1/2 ton
    suspension could handle it.

< wrong, it is the frame that can't handle it... the suspension is a small
consideration by comparison, especially since the springs and, hence, axles
would interchange handily between W150 and W250/350  WK>

6.  No problem there, the Dodge version of this engine comes with a vacuum
    pump. Cummins can also add a compressor if you want to use air horns etc.

< I don't think you can have *both* vacuum pump and aircompressor handily since
the vacuum pump (and powersteering pump, by the way) are driven by the gear
that would drive the air compressor if so equipped   WK>

Ed Campbell

----------
 
Walt K., happy Diesel SRW W350 driver...



-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 02:04:53 1993
Subject: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6296
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	My expereince with the Cummings is that you can hardly get up to
the speedometer in first gear.  There is enough troque for a dead start in
5th but you had better give yourself plenty of room to get on the highway
because it takes time to get up to speed.  I rember reading an article in
Popular mechanics about turbo deseil trucks where they talked about hot
rodding the Cummings. I beleive Banks sold some stuff for them amoung
others.  Come to think of it the mag might have been four wheel and off
road.  The truck could pull a house down but it's not a dragstip monster by
anymeans.
Henry

[Totally unrelated but a good place to comment.  I learned a neat trick from
a buddy of mine who has a diesel Izuzu Trooper.  Now this is a get-out-and-
push combination but it does one thing real neat by virtue of not 
having a rev limiter.  A major limiting factor on how high a diesel
can rev and produce useful power is how fast the combustion chamber can
distribute and burn the fuel.  Rev the motor too high and the burning fuel
ends up in the exhaust pipe doing what diesel oil does best - burning with a
LOT of soot.  

Now understanding that this vehicle's acceleration is so leisurely that 
one needs special instrumentation to detect any at all, the occasion
frequently arises that an impatient driver will become bonded to the 
rear bumper, usually with high beams on.  What Ken does is push the clutch
and the throttle to the floor.  The engine revs til it can't anymore and
all that huge excess of fuel comes out the pipe as a cloud of soot 
so thick the bumper-attached car cannot be seen.  This is really spectacular!
Looks just like super stock tractor cranking up to pull! Sometimes you can 
actually see the pall of smoke in the car after he lets off.

Hey Walt, you outta give this a try sometime.  That big Cumings should
attract econazis from 5 counties :-)  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 02:10:27 1993
Subject: Forwarded: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6297
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Forwarded mail follows:

{ lots deleted   WK}

< a comment that I and everyone else failed to make is that the frame and
running gear of the Dakota is radically diferent than that of the D/W-series
trucks... the W-trucks (4wd, 'D' is 2wd) have live axles in front and leaf
springs... the Dakota has 'boulevard-cruiser' IFS up front -- wimpy wimpy wimpy
by comparison  WK>

The diesels I've driven have had high torque ratings, but low max hp ratings.
Seems to me this would be a poor choice for a sport truck?  Also they seem to
spool up to high RPM's relatively slowly, also counterproductive to sporty
performance in a light vehicle.

<  in a way that depends upon your definition of 'sport', I find it most
amusing to, when I find myself being tailgated by some alleged 'fast-car' on an
uphill stretch of road to slow to perhaps 45-50mph, still in overdrive and then
drop the hammer...  The Cummins has enough torque to accelerate me up the hill
like scalded-cat while the 'fast-car' has to drop two gears... recall, the
Cummins installed in the Dodges makes a *MINIMUM* of 285lb-ft and this is at
850rpm (max is rated at 400 at 1600...)... lots of sporting opportunity...  WK>

>1.  Will the Cummins diesel fit in the Dakota?

Anything can be _made_ to fit, but it seems to me the Cummins engine is a fair
bit longer than the Dakota engine compartment.  (It's long in the full sized
pickup engine compartment.)

< *chuckle*... yep, it can be made to fit... with custom frame, and
sheetmetal...  WK>



>3.  Would I need to get a stronger rear end?

Possibly.  The 4-cylinder Dakotas come with 7 1/4" rears, which would be right
out.  I'm not sure whether the 9 1/4" is available or not.  The 8 1/4" would
probably be marginal.  According to a friend of mine who used to work at a
Dodge parts counter, the Dana axle available in vans should drop in under the
Dakota.  (He learned this when he was replacing the 7 1/4" he grenaded on his
Dakota a few years ago.)

< no 'possibly' about it... the Diesels come with Dana 70s (10.54-inch ring
gear... the largest in a light-truck, by the way)...  hmmm... the *van* axle? I
don't think so... van axles are 'cock-eyed' -- the housing is offset to the
passenger-side of the vehicle and the entire drive-rtrain in a van is shifted
to provide increased driver leg-room at passenger expense...  WK>

>6.  Is there going to be a problem running stuff that uses engine vacuum?

Take a look at how they're running the brake booster on the full sized trucks
with the Cummins.  They've got to do it somehow.

<  yep, as I have said -- gear-driven vacuum pump/powersteering pump driven by
the accessory drive that would otherwise drive the aircompressor... lower
left-hand side of engine, below injector pump...  WK>

>Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)

David Wright

----------
 

alt K., Happy Diesel SRW W350 driver...

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 02:16:07 1993
Subject: Public nuisance
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6298
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


A few years ago I got a cease and desist notice from the local police.
It was delivered by certified mail so I had to sign for it.  Anyway,
I had a car up on stands in the driveway and it had been declared a
public nuisance!  It was fully registered and was not dismantled.
We also got parking tickets on our car parked in front of the house
on the street, because it had been parked for three days!  This was
where we lived, a residential area with no parking problems, not
a city street.

My suggestion to AquaMan did not appear on the net - I said try to
get by with non-operational vehicle registration.  They are $6 at the
DMV and should be enough for anyone with extra cars on their property.

Paul

----------
Posted by: emory!everest.tandem.com!paul (Paul Duffy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 02:21:27 1993
Subject: Re:  Ford 9" rears
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6299
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

A few thoughts about Ford 9" rear ends.

For a long time, they came behind most things Ford with more than 300 CID.

Hot Rod did a useful story on rear ends earlier this summer.  Check
it out.

Some of the most desriable 9" stuff comes in Linconls.  Disk brakes 
and limited slip.  Good stuff also came in early Broncos -- real
Detroit Lockers ( optional ) and 31 spline axles, all setup in a 
short housing. There are more than just 29 and 31 spline axles, there
at least 33 spline also.

Nodular cases are strong, and came stock behind HiPo 429 something
GTs in the early 1970s.  They are nice, but expensive.  

Unlike others, this rear end is not symmetric.  The axles are
different lengths, and perhaps sizes.

Ford 9" rear ends are heavy.  I had one from behind a 429 TBird.  Most
likely nodular, HUGE drum brakes, factory 3 point plus panhard, with
spare axles and springs.  Could'nt sell it!  Ended up giving it away.
Hard for two computer programmers to carry.

If I had the $, I'd get one of those decent remanufactured ones, with
disk brakes and put a Detroit Locker in it.  I would consider the Al
nose if I really wanted to save weight; perhaps have an iron pinion 
bearing sleeve installed for durability?

The F150 came with the truck ( leaf spring ) version for many years.

A local company makes real torsen diffs for theses things; I think
they are in Costa Mesa.  You can get air lockers and straight spools
for them eaisly, along with Detroit Lockers and at least one type of 
limited slip.

I saw a mid 70's TBird with Al spoke wheels and disk brakes all around
just the other day.  It was probably stock judging by the driver and 
the car's condition.  

It has been said in HRM that the 9" has the widest range of production 
ratios, something like 2.02 to 6.38 are available off the shelf.


Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704
     extra line in my .rsig

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 02:27:23 1993
Subject: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6300
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I wonder if anyone in the history of auto racing ever made a monster 2-stroke
motor.  It would be a stinkin' beast!  An oil belching monster.  Just imagine
a 500 cubic inch 2 stroke engine winding up to 14,000 rpm.  What a nightmare.

I had a '70 Kawasaki 350 two-stroke bike long ago.  It put out something like
45 horsepower at 10,500 rpm stock.  350 cc is equal to about 21 cubic inches. 
That's pretty impressive to get a two to one horsepower to cubic inches ratio.
It would seem possible to make a monster 500 cubic inch 2-stroke with about
1200 horsepower.  How 'bout a twin with gallon sized pistons?  I bet it's
possible but every track in their right mind would outlaw it due to the
stench, the smoke, the oil mist spraying all over the track.

Tom

[It's pretty hard to keep large pistons alive in 2-strokes.  We learned
that lesson trying to road-race a Kaw 350 rotary valve single.  Even
with Kaw factory assistance, it just wouldn't stay together.  Get it lean
enough to quit 4-stroking and the center of the piston would soften and
cave.  A ceramic coating might help but they hand't seriously thought 
of that back then.

Now what WOULD be wonderful would be an oh, 350 cu inch 12 cylinder 2
stroke, perferably an opposed (a la volkswagen) design with a scavenging
supercharger instead of crankcase pumping.  Can you just imagine the
sound of 12 open expansion chambers at full chat?  Gives me quivers just
thinking about it.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 02:32:27 1993
Subject: silly question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6301
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

a friend of mine had an 86 monte carlo with a mid-70's vette engine [orig.
was a 5 litre]. heres the deal. the orig. owner says the car did *NOT*
come with a positrac rear end. my friend takes it to the shop one day to
get new exhaust headers and suddenly he has a positrac rear end on his
car... no one knows how it got there... 

so tell me. was positrac an option for monte's? ever?




----------
Posted by: Met Razal 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 18:29:51 1993
Subject: Re: silly question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6304
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

From:	IN%"hotrod@dixie.com"  9-SEP-1993 01:30:42.56
To:	IN%"hotrod@dixie.com"
CC:	
Subj:	silly question

a friend of mine had an 86 monte carlo with a mid-70's vette engine [orig.
was a 5 litre]. heres the deal. the orig. owner says the car did *NOT*
come with a positrac rear end. my friend takes it to the shop one day to
get new exhaust headers and suddenly he has a positrac rear end on his
car... no one knows how it got there... 

so tell me. was positrac an option for monte's? ever?


**Working from memory here...
-The '70+'71 MCSS454 came standard with a posi. rearend and was an option on
the base car.

-4th generation SS cars ('83-'88) had limited slip rearends.  But I have heard
some rumors that a few had posi. units.

-I have an '86 MCSS and it has a limited slip.  On wheel screaming take-offs it
seems to act more like a posi. unit, leaving 2 burners!
It seems though that this limited slip is more touchy then limited slips on
Grampa's car.  It tends to "lock-up" sooner then other limited slips, making it
seem like Posi-traction.

	Monte Marty
	'71 Monte Carlo 350-4
	'86 MCSS 305-4 (soon to be LT-1 SS)
	'85 MCSS show-stoppin' original
	2ss1eberhard@vms.csd.mu.edu
 


----------
Posted by: emory!vms.csd.mu.edu!2SS1EBERHARD
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 18:50:43 1993
Subject: RE: 350 Target Master Engine Questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6305
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In response to my previous questions, Dirk replied that this engine
is built out of "junk" components. I was under the impression that 
these engines were just generic Chevy engines, not some sub-standard
product. This block does have four bolt mains. Could Dirk, or anyone,
clarify this?

As to my wanting a late model LT1 equivalent, my plan is to install 
the engine in a '72 240Z, with TPI. The problem with most aftermarket
engines has to do with CA smog laws regarding engine swaps. I would
love to have someone provide me with a complete Vette driveline, but
I do not have the cash that most yards require. I was thinking that I
might be able to use the 350 I already have as a base, changing parts
as required to turn it into an LT1 equivalent.

I have found one place that will sell me a crated LT1, that is basically
a long block, with injectors. This does not include any accessories,
ie no manifolds, intake runners, etc, etc, etc. I feel that buying all
the individual parts to make this a running package would be to costly,
as the engine itself was over $3k.

Any suggestions with the above goal in mind (350 TPI LT1 in a '72 240Z,
meeting CA smog laws) would be appreciated. Thanks.

Conrad.Frank@Quotron.Com

----------
Posted by: emory!godzilla.quotron.com!conrad (Conrad Frank)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 18:56:02 1993
Subject: Re: Holed Piston
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6306
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <03-z_a_@dixie.com> emory!angst.MicroUnity.com!ericm (Eric Murray) writes:
>Chris BeHanna writes:
>>	Question #3:  Does TRW have pistons for motorcycles?  This piece is
>>cast aluminum, about 66mm in diameter.  One side shows severe galling, so I
>>will definitely have to go oversize to do a cleanup bore on the cylinder (so
>>I have to do the same with the other to have a matched set).
>
>Measure (or have your machinist do it) the inside of the cylinders
>for roundness, taper, and wear.   Measure the pistons also, and
>replace if they're too badly scored or the piston-cylinder clearance is
>out of spec, then replace or rebore and replace.

	As I said, the #1 piston shows severe galling, and I imagine that it
made matching marks on the sleeve (I haven't looked at it since I pulled it
apart the other night).  #1 piston is now a donut with a hole in the crown, so
replacement of the pistons is absolutely required.

[Old improvised tuner's trick:  When a piston seizes like that, most of
the marks on the cylinder walls are actually deposited aluminum and not
scratches.  It can be easily removed.  Simply degrease the cylinder,
position it to where a gall mark is down, facing up, and apply a bit
of common hydrochloric acid (as used to etch bricks).  The HCl consumes
the aluminum much faster than the iron.  The aluminum bits will be gone
in a few seconds while the iron sleeve will be barely discolored.
When the bubbling stops, wash, oil and inspect.  Likely the cylinder will
be in good shape.

Another tip, if you have to have the cylinder bored.  Take it to a shop
that has a Sunnen rod boring machine and have the cylinder finished on that.
The machine is capable of holding the tolerance vastly better than any
small boring setup I've ever seen.  JGD]

>>If you were
>>building a motor for a commuter vehicle that you wanted to last a long time,
>>would you stick with cast aluminum or go with something fancier, like a
>>hypereutetic job?
>
>The pistons you have are probably forged.  Japanese (motorcycle)
>pistons are generally very good quality, and you should use the
>OEM ones if you can.  I put Wiseco pistons in my RZ350 (two-stroke
>twin) racer because I couldn't find any Yamaha pistons to fit a
>.75mm overbore.  They're already scored in < 100 miles of running.
>I hear that their 4-stroke pistons are much better.  LA Sleeve
>supposedly carries ART pistons (OEM to most Japanese motorcycle
>makers).

	Thanks!  You found what I need!  The pistons have ART marked on their
sides, so I imagine that I'll be giving LA Sleeve a call (gotta be cheaper
than going through Honda-as-middleman).

>>	Now, the hotrod part:  I figured as long as I have it apart, I might
>>as well clean up the ports and maybe degree the cam.  I am an absolute newbie
>>at this, so any informative, yet conservative, recommendation would be
>>helpful.
>
>Don't touch it.  That's as conservative as you can get. :-)
>Other than that, you should match the manifolds and gaskets and clean
>out any gross casting/manufacturing errors (seams, etc) in the ports.
>Other then that, leave it alone, unless you get good advice from
>a CB360 expert.
>
>>  Also, is there anything (cheap) that I can do to the combustion
>>chambers that would have some productive contribution?
>
>Polish them (I use a tiny wire brush in a Dremel tool) to slow
>carbon build-up.  Lap the valves.

	Sounds reasonable.  Thanks.

>>	The goal is to build a very durable motor that maybe pulls a wee bit
>>more strongly than stock.  As I said, I'm cutting my teeth on this motor, so
>>help would be appreciated.  It was fun pulling the top end apart, now I want
>>to make sure everything goes together correctly.
>
>Good luck, and have fun.
>Replace the cam chain while you're in there.

	That's the odd thing--the cam chain is in fine shape.  A worn chain
should pull 1/2way or more off the sprocket teeth and this one would barely
budge.  The cam chain tensioner slippers, OTOH, are very much worn.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:02:25 1993
Subject: Re: Public nuisance
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6307
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Paul Duffy writes:
>My suggestion to AquaMan did not appear on the net - I said try to
>get by with non-operational vehicle registration.  They are $6 at the
>DMV and should be enough for anyone with extra cars on their property.

You may also have to meet county and city regulations.  In San Diego
County a vehicle on your property has to be either running or
registered or both.  I don't know if the "I'm storing it" fee gets
you something that would qualify as "registration" in the county's eyes.

Bob Hale

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:07:39 1993
Subject: Re:  Ford 9" rears
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6308
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> A few thoughts about Ford 9" rear ends.
> 
> Nodular cases are strong, and came stock behind HiPo 429 something
> GTs in the early 1970s.  They are nice, but expensive.  
> 
> Unlike others, this rear end is not symmetric.  The axles are
> different lengths, and perhaps sizes.
> 
> Ford 9" rear ends are heavy.  I had one from behind a 429 TBird.  Most
> likely nodular, HUGE drum brakes, factory 3 point plus panhard, with
> spare axles and springs.  Could'nt sell it!  Ended up giving it away.
> Hard for two computer programmers to carry.
> 


Nodulars have a raised letter "N" (about 1 1/2" high) on them.
I have a Nodular steel 9" rear diff w/ LSD in my Bronco.
I thought the rear axles were interchangable, but never tried it.


   _/_/_/_/  _/     _/    _/       _/        Rick Colombo colombo@fnal.gov
  _/        _/_/   _/   _/ _/     _/        Fermi National Accelerator Lab
 _/_/_/    _/  _/ _/  _/_/_/_/   _/        Of course I speak for: Fermilab,
_/        _/     _/  _/     _/  _/_/_/_/  Congress and the President...NOT!

----------
Posted by: emory!dcd00.fnal.gov!colombo (Rick Colombo)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:12:41 1993
Subject: Air / Fuel Guage results & Thanks.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6309
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Just a word to say thanks to all those people that helped us out on our
Air/Fuel meter question I posted a few weeks ago. We bought a couple of
Cyberdyne Air/Fuel Gauges from SUMMIT for $30.99 and installed a BOSCH O2
sensors at each collector on my friends (Andy) Datsun 240Z SCCA ITS race car.


During warm ups at Grattan raceway on 04 September both gauges read two bars
too rich (what ever two bars mean). The car was brought in and the carbs
leaned out. Back on the track the gauges read center or stoch. and Andy's    
times improved down the straight and throughout the course. Saturday Andy
qualified second in class behind a 280Z. On Sunday the gauges were still
reading stoch and Andy won the South Bend regional race being chased by the
280Z. On Monday he qualified for the Western Michigan regional races 3rd
overall and 1st in class in the rain. The Cyberdynes were now reading two bars
too lean; however, we did not readjust the carbs because the race was
scheduled to be run later in the day and the forcast was for clear skies. I
figure the cooler temps were making the air a little denser thus the reason
for the lean condition. The guess was correct. During the race the skies were
clear and temp was warming up to what it had been Saturday and Sunday. Andy
won the Monday race again being chased by the 280Z.


We learned a lot using the Cyberdynes. They aren't perfect but do  give an 
adequate indication of what is going on. By the way we used 75% HI OCTANE
unleaded fuel and 25% leaded Racing Fuel. It didn't seem to bother the O2 
sensors. Anyway Thanks a Bunch!

Roger Hensley
Patriot Motorsports

[The guys down at Ga Tech F-SAE team have been using lambda sensors with
leaded fuel for quite some time.  They were fortunate to have had GM
donate a whole box full of sensors to the effort.  They tell me the sensor
will last for a few hours of dyno running.  The first indication 
of poisoning is sluggish response.  Sounds like yours should be good
for a couple of events.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:17:31 1993
Subject: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6310
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>[Totally unrelated but a good place to comment.  I learned a neat trick from
>a buddy of mine who has a diesel Izuzu Trooper.  Now this is a get-out-and-
>
>rear bumper, usually with high beams on.  What Ken does is push the clutch
>and the throttle to the floor.  The engine revs til it can't anymore and
>all that huge excess of fuel comes out the pipe as a cloud of soot 
>so thick the bumper-attached car cannot be seen.  This is really spectacular!
>Looks just like super stock tractor cranking up to pull! Sometimes you can 
>actually see the pall of smoke in the car after he lets off.
>
>Hey Walt, you outta give this a try sometime.  That big Cumings should
>attract econazis from 5 counties :-)  JGD]

A friend of mine could make a smoke screen in his 6.2l diesel Suburban by
turning off the key but leaving it in gear.  I'm not sure what the mechanism 
was (injection control goes to sleep?  insufficient fuel for combustion?),
but it was supposedly very effective.  :-)

David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:23:16 1993
Subject: Re: silly question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6311
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>a friend of mine had an 86 monte carlo with a mid-70's vette engine [orig.
>was a 5 litre]. heres the deal. the orig. owner says the car did *NOT*
>come with a positrac rear end. my friend takes it to the shop one day to
>get new exhaust headers and suddenly he has a positrac rear end on his
>car... no one knows how it got there... 
>
>so tell me. was positrac an option for monte's? ever?
>
>
>
Yes, in some years Monte Carlos did come with positraction.  I bought a book a couple of months ago in my local auto parts store for Monte Carlos which listed  the years and what types of rear-ends came in them.  I can't remember the name  of the book offhand, but will dig it out if you are interested in one.

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnewsf.cb.att.com!tkratzer (troy.d.kratzer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:27:23 1993
Subject: Re: silly question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6312
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Absolutely, a limited slip was definately an option on any GM RWD product.
My dad had a 3.08 limited slip in his 350 78 Caprice. The option was
actually pretty cheap too. Something like $ 38 if my memory serves me.

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:32:01 1993
Subject: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6313
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Now what WOULD be wonderful would be an oh, 350 cu inch 12 cylinder 2
-> stroke, perferably an opposed (a la volkswagen) design with a
-> scavenging supercharger instead of crankcase pumping.  Can you just
-> imagine the sound of 12 open expansion chambers at full chat?  Gives
-> me quivers just thinking about it.  JGD]

   I think most people must think that one up once they start
getting seriously into engines.  I came up with it, my buddy Jay is
still in love with it, and a couple of other people have mentioned it.

 Of course, the 12 is in perfect primary and secondary balance, while a
flat-six would have the usual corkscrew couples unless you went to a
Lanchester layout, which'd screw your crankcase volume all to hell.


 Now that multipart ceramic/aluminum pistons are no big deal (Isuzu
Diesels have been using them for years) and coatings have improved to
where they usually stay in place, a big two stroke might be practical
now.

 I've also wondered if cast iron pistons might make a comeback.  Modern
nodular-style irons are stronger than aluminum to start with and lose
practically no strength at temperatures that would let you pour an
aluminum piston out of your shoe.  With die casting instead of sand
casting, you could probably come up with a nodular piston weighing
little if any more than aluminum, more thermally stable, and able to
laugh at lean mixtures and detonation.  Even if you couldn't equalize
the weight, it'd be worth losing 1000 RPM or so if you could REALLY
screw up the boost.
                                                    
[Even better would be a forged piston made from one of the exotic alloys.
Way back in the early 70s one of my cousins was a big wheel metallurgist
manager in the Army Missile Command at Redstone.  He made me a couple of
experimental pistons, one out of titanium and the other out of some
exotic stuff called Maraging 300.  This stuff hardens up to C60 rockwell
and yet stays very ductile and has a yield strength of 300,000 psi.

Anyway, the titanium piston worked but had problems of crown erosion.
I suspect a ceramic coating would solve that problem.  The maraging
piston was Wonderful!  Very thin-walled and lighter than the cast 
piston it replaced, it laughed at detonation and leanness.  Even when
the engine was run lean enough to cause it to stick, the stick was
temporary and any damage was to the cylinder wall.  He never did tell
me how he made the piston, though he did say it was the same process
used to make the combustion chamber in the Sidewinder missile.  It 
looked forged.  Hehehe, and you thought $600 toilet seats were bad :-)
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:38:05 1993
Subject: FAST CAR FOR SALE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6314
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Autothority Performance Engineering Project Car 
        =============================================== 
 
Our shop (Datsun Dynamics) was involved in the construction of a
1991 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo which has undergone extensive
development. If you are looking for the ultimate in RELIABLE street
fast, this is it.
 
If you are seriously interested, pictures, dyno pulls, etc can
be provided, along with an extensive write up of modifications
and what was achieved.    
 
In short, engine is blueprinted and balanced. HKS -EVC (Electronic
Valve Control), VPC (Vain Pressure Converter), PowerFlow intake,
intercoolers and 485cc injectors. Max Flow Turbos (T 2.5 Garretts
with wastegate separators, Centerforce clutch, P-Zero tires on
chrome 300zx wheels, Extrudehoned manifolds, Thermal Barrier Coated
pistons, exhaust manifolds, turbo housings, off road exhaust with modified
catalysts. Complete gauge package mounted in glove box.

The rear wheel horsepower of this car is 525hp (not flywheel, rear wheel). 
The car as low mileage (3500 miles since the final rebuild).
The asking price is $35k.
 
If you are interested, please contact Karl Baldwin at 703-222-9615.
You are also welcome to contact the owner of Datsun Dynamics, Greg
Masters, at 703-759-4610.

----------
Posted by: emory!maxim.com!bilge (Filippo Morelli)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:43:42 1993
Subject: Forwarded: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6315
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Forwarded mail follows:

	My expereince with the Cummings is that you can hardly get up to
the speedometer in first gear.  There is enough troque for a dead start in
5th but you had better give yourself plenty of room to get on the highway
because it takes time to get up to speed.

< 'takes time'?  when enterring a highway, I usually find myself at
max-governed speed (2850-or-so) and 70+mph on the acceleration lane in
fourth...  also, first is an offroad gear on the Getrag 5-speed, you should be
using second in normal driving, unless *heavily* (over)loaded... in-gear
acceleration is phenominal, too...  I have yet to find something that can match
my 60-to-95 acceleration rate without downshifting...  WK>

  I rember reading an article in
Popular mechanics about turbo deseil trucks where they talked about hot
rodding the Cummings. I beleive Banks sold some stuff for them amoung
others.  Come to think of it the mag might have been four wheel and off
road.  The truck could pull a house down but it's not a dragstip monster by
anymeans.

< okay, I'll go along with not a 'dragstrip monster'... but get it rolling
(like some car-rag-or-other's "street-start") and it goes like a 'raped-ape'.
Banks did/does sell quite a few interestiing bits and pieces (and costly...)for
the Cummins...  I priced his exhaust system (from muffler inlet-back), it was a
nice stainless steel, 3-inch diameter and twice what I ended up paying for an
aluminized-steel system from T.M.C.  the T.M.C. system is 3.5-inch diameter
(i.d.) and has even gentler bends.  neither Banks' nor T.M.C.'s systems
eliminated the *squashed* (down to 2-in i.d.) pipe between the turbocharger's
down-pipe and the muffler inlet.  Turbo City in L.A. has a very nice, mandrel
bent pipe that I used as replacement.  Mine is not (yet) aftercooled... can't
afford one... but do I really need it... I can break the tires loose in any
gear already.  WK>

Henry

[Totally unrelated but a good place to comment.  I learned a neat trick from
a buddy of mine who has a diesel Izuzu Trooper.  Now this is a get-out-and-
push combination but it does one thing real neat by virtue of not 
having a rev limiter.  A major limiting factor on how high a diesel
can rev and produce useful power is how fast the combustion chamber can
distribute and burn the fuel.  Rev the motor too high and the burning fuel
ends up in the exhaust pipe doing what diesel oil does best - burning with a
LOT of soot.  

< ACK!  High-Idle speed determined by combustion failure... neat...  WK>

Now understanding that this vehicle's acceleration is so leisurely that 
one needs special instrumentation to detect any at all, the occasion
frequently arises that an impatient driver will become bonded to the 
rear bumper, usually with high beams on.  What Ken does is push the clutch
and the throttle to the floor.  The engine revs til it can't anymore and
all that huge excess of fuel comes out the pipe as a cloud of soot 
so thick the bumper-attached car cannot be seen.  This is really spectacular!
Looks just like super stock tractor cranking up to pull! Sometimes you can 
actually see the pall of smoke in the car after he lets off.

< d*mn, I *like* that... I just get a small puff at initial take-off...
sufficient to fumigate your average 'Vette, however...  WK>

Hey Walt, you outta give this a try sometime.  That big Cumings should
attract econazis from 5 counties :-)  JGD]

< I can't 'convince' it to make any significant smoke once past idle...  That's
why that Trooper sounds intrigueing...  WK>

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b
 
< be aware that folks who have driven early (1989 and 1990) Dodges with
Cummins-power and later (mid-1991 to present) have noted that the early engines
are more responsive and powerful-feeling...  The original-author of this
message *may* be driving one of the 'new' ones... I have a 1990...  WK>

Walt K.


-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:49:24 1993
Subject: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota repost
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6316
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> First off, note that in the late 40's Cummins won at Indy 3 years in
-> a row and would have made it at least 4 or 5 if they hadn't decided
-> to limit the cars to run on gasoline. They can be real fast!

 Cummins never had a win at Indy.  They rattled a few cages, but never a
win.

 According to "Indy Car" by Roger Huntingdon:

"...they had sponsored several diesel cars for publicity purposes in the
early '30s.  They weren't competitive on speed; but they could run the
500 miles without a pit stop and get 15 or 20 mpg - which proved well
worth the effort in free publicity."

 Post-WWII:  "...The first attempt in 1950 was not too successful...
slowest in the field..."

"1952...Freddie Agabashian managed to break the lap reecord at 139.10
mph and sit on the pole for the 1952 race.  ...it took about 175 miles
to clog up the [turbo] inlet with [track] debris.  That was the end of
the Cummins effort at Indy."
           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 19:53:56 1993
Subject: 350 Target Master Engine Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6317
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I have recently come into possesion of a Chevy 350 Target Master
-> replacement engine, and want to know what parts I should expect to
-> find in it.

 Whatever was laying around.  It's sort of a generic replacement motor,
and Chevy didn't really have any particular spec on it.  I'm pretty sure
production overruns figured strongly in what went into the
Targetmasters.

 That's not to say they're bad - there could be literally anything
inside - but don't depend on it.  And it *is* a practically new motor.


-> My goal is to come up with a late model LT1 equivalent, including
-> TPI. Will this be cost effective startig off with the low mileage 350
-> mentioned above, or should I just find a late model Vette that no one
-> is using?

 For a Tuned Port 350, just slap on the injection, sensors, and wiring
harness, and you're ready to go.  The late engines also have roller cams
and some have aluminum heads, but it wouldn't be worth the price to add
them to yours.

 Also remember, the late model (one piece rear main seal) engines all
have the skinny rods and cast cranks with the weirdo flywheel bolt
pattern, and the late heads have a different angle on the center intake
manifold bolt holes, which makes it hard to mix'n'match intake
manifolds with pre'86 motors.  The oil pans are different too.
               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 20:03:45 1993
Subject: Re: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6318
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


On 9 Sep 93 00:31, hotrod wrote:

>I wonder if anyone in the history of auto racing ever made a monster 2-stroke
>motor.  It would be a stinkin' beast!  An oil belching monster.  Just imagine
>a 500 cubic inch 2 stroke engine winding up to 14,000 rpm.  What a nightmare.
>
>That's pretty impressive to get a two to one horsepower to cubic inches ratio.

That about what a rotary engine does.  A normally aspirated 13B, two
rotor engine (80ci) can do 160 hp from the factory :-).

I had to say it.

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 21:23:45 1993
Subject: RE: 350 Target Master Engine Questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6319
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>In response to my previous questions, Dirk replied that this engine
>is built out of "junk" components. I was under the impression that 
>these engines were just generic Chevy engines, not some sub-standard
>product. This block does have four bolt mains. Could Dirk, or anyone,
>clarify this?

To the best of my knowledge the target master motors are the imfamous 
chevy motors built in Mexico.  If you want to know real fast ask a HP 
machine shop how far they can bore the engine over without having to 
check wall thickness.  On most older engines I heard .060 is absolutly 
no problems (350 cu in that is).

>As to my wanting a late model LT1 equivalent, my plan is to install 
>the engine in a '72 240Z, with TPI. The problem with most aftermarket
>engines has to do with CA smog laws regarding engine swaps. I would
>love to have someone provide me with a complete Vette driveline, but
>I do not have the cash that most yards require. I was thinking that I
>might be able to use the 350 I already have as a base, changing parts
>as required to turn it into an LT1 equivalent.

Interesting.  How much of a donor car do you need?  Can you just use a 
72 or later chevy motor and the 72 chevy emissions or do you have to 
reclassifie the car as a home build?  What's the low-down?  What does 
chevy consider the replacement for their highest performance '72 car?  
Can you get a 350 crate motor thats high performance?  Doesn't chevy 
sell a 300hp/350 crate motor?  Maybe some of these mail order engine 
houses can get you an engine with the right year parts.

I don't think 72 had a catastrophic converter (75 first year for GM)
You do need EGR (or something that looks like EGR).  I think you also 
need the TCS or something like that (Transmission Control Spark).

Now does every part need to be either stock or CARB certified?

>I have found one place that will sell me a crated LT1, that is 
>basically
>a long block, with injectors. This does not include any accessories,
>ie no manifolds, intake runners, etc, etc, etc. I feel that buying all
>the individual parts to make this a running package would be to 
>costly,
>as the engine itself was over $3k.

Try Summit Racing - I think they have complete TPI engines - probably 
5k when your all done.

>Any suggestions with the above goal in mind (350 TPI LT1 in a '72 
>240Z,
>meeting CA smog laws) would be appreciated. Thanks.

>Conrad.Frank@Quotron.Com

You may want to consider just getting a 72 350 chevy and installing it 
basically stock - you got alot of work to do anyway.  Find a complete 
running motor - get every part from the donor car that you can.  Even 
if you buy a crate motor you still need things like water pumps and 
thousands of little parts - this alone can add a significant amount to 
the bill.  You can easily blow $1000 on the little stuff.

Dirk

PS  Didn't mean to offend with any comment about the Target Master 
motors.  Simply wanted to say that there are better solutions out 
there.

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu Sep  9 21:25:20 1993
Subject: MIG Welding
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6302
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Friends,

Does anyone heve experience with the J.C.Whithney $339.99 MIG Welder. Is this a 
good buy for the occasional enthusiast ? Any recommendations for another device 
at reasonable price ?\

Many thanks,


Bart




----------
Posted by: Bart Denys 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu Sep  9 21:31:25 1993
Subject: Re: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6303
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>I wonder if anyone in the history of auto racing ever made a monster 2-stroke
>motor.  It would be a stinkin' beast!  An oil belching monster.  Just imagine
>a 500 cubic inch 2 stroke engine winding up to 14,000 rpm.  What a nightmare.
>
>I had a '70 Kawasaki 350 two-stroke bike long ago.  It put out something like
>45 horsepower at 10,500 rpm stock.  350 cc is equal to about 21 cubic inches. 
>That's pretty impressive to get a two to one horsepower to cubic inches ratio.
>It would seem possible to make a monster 500 cubic inch 2-stroke with about
>1200 horsepower.  How 'bout a twin with gallon sized pistons?  I bet it's
>possible but every track in their right mind would outlaw it due to the
>stench, the smoke, the oil mist spraying all over the track.

	How about a Johnson or Evenrude 300hp 4.0L V8 two stroke outboard
powerhead! They make em, and they sound great (and smell cool too). Even
better, how about two of them on the back of a 30' offshore cat!  

	
	Pete

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep  9 21:39:29 1993
Subject: Re: New cam
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6320
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Hi guys,	
>
>
>BUT, I seem to have a strange phenomenon. With the help of a vericom 
>computer
>I have plotted a power vs rpm graph. I got the following data:
>
>4700 rpm : 235 hp
>5100 rpm : 265 hp
>5500 rpm : 300 hp
>
>As I have stock heads and a restrictive exhaust I should have a power peak
>BELOW 5000rpm but instead I have a dramatic increase...
>
>The cam is rather mild (214/224 dgr duration int/exh and 442/462" lift).

Just a guess but that camm seems to compensate for a restrictive exhaust.  
I'd guess that cam is designed for 1500 rpm to 5500 rpm with a redline at 
about 6000 or 6500.  Yes?  

You should be able to move the power band down or up a little by advancing 
or retarding the cam a few degrees - I think its 100 rpm for every degree or 
something like that - max is about  4 degrees in either direction - If you 
have an old timing chain this could be the problem.

Ignition should be at full advance by 3000 or so.  About 32-36 degrees 
total.

Perhaps the engine is leaning out a bit and thereby giving you more top end 
power - check the fuel pressure at speed and under a load.  You probably 
should have a minimum of 4psi all the time and no more that 8.

My best advice would be to live with it for a while.  Try different spark 
plugs/ gaps, different jets etc.  If a change improves power your going in 
the right direction.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 02:39:52 1993
Subject: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6321
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [Even better would be a forged piston made from one of the exotic
-> alloys. Way back in the early 70s one of my cousins was a big wheel
-> metallurgist

 Heh, heh, heh.  And here I thought I'd come up with something new.
Sounds like you liked the pistons just fine.

 I wonder if any of the guys over in rec.metalworking cast iron.  My rig
doesn't get anywhere near hot enough for that.  I bet Arias would freak
if I sent them a set for machining.  

 It'd be interesting to see how they'd fare under great wads of BOOOOST!
                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 02:48:11 1993
Subject: Re: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6322
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> How about a Johnson or Evenrude 300hp 4.0L V8 two stroke outboard
-> powerhead! They make em, and they sound great (and smell cool too).
-> Even better, how about two of them on the back of a 30' offshore cat!

 Back in the '70s that was the hot tip for sand rails.  A couple of
companies made adapters to mate them up to VW transaxles.

 I always wondered why some SAAB two stroke fanatic never swapped one.
A 200hp V6 could turn one of those little cars every which way but
loose.
                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 15:40:26 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-34*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6323
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

IOGP POWERBOAT RACING, AUGUSTA (T)    9/10     2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (Winston Cup@Darlington9/10     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Motoworld                             9/10     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, RICHMOND (L)                9/10     7:30-9:30PM      TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty(10 fastest car9/11     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (headlights)       9/11     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
FIREHAWK/SUPERCAR SERIES, CLEVELAND(T)9/11     1:30-2:00PM      TNN
The Great American Race (T)           9/11     2:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/11     2:00-2:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/11     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
ESPN2 Preview                         9/11     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/11     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, TALLADEGA (T)               9/11     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
NHRA NATIONALS, CLERMONT (T)          9/11     5:00-6:00PM      NBC
MotorWeek '93                         9/11     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
IOGP POWERBOATS, SASKATCHEWAN (T)     9/11     5:00-5:30PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (L)             9/11     7:30-11:00PM     TBS
NASCAR Shop Talk w/Eli Gold           9/12     12:00-12:30AM    ESPN
ESPN2 Preview                         9/12     12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
IHRA WORLD NATIONALS, NORWALK (T)     9/12     1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             9/12     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             9/12     3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
FORMULA 1, MONZA, ITALY (L)           9/12     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/12     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              9/12     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Sammy Swindell)              9/12     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/12     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/12     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           9/12    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (L)                 9/12     1:00-3:30PM      ESPN
SCCA DODGE/SHELBY PRO, ELKART LAKE (T)9/12     1:30-2:30PM      HTS*
ASA, MADISON INTERNATIONAL SPEEDWAY(L)9/12     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
WORLD MOTORCYCLE GP, LAGUNA SECA (L)  9/12     3:00-6:00PM      HTS*
IHRA MID-AMERICA NATIONALS,SCRIBNER(T)9/12     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (SD)                9/12     5:00PM           TSN
Shadetree Mechanic (headlights)       9/12     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update w/Pat Patterson (L)    9/12     6:00-6:05PM      TNN
SPRINT CARS, KNOXVILLE NATIONALS (T)  9/12     6:05-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/12     7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/12     8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           9/12     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      9/12     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
F1, MONZA OR INDYCAR, M-OHIO (SD)     9/12    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
Trucks And Tractor Power              9/12    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/12    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/13     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
Winners (Sammy Swindell)              9/13     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
AUTO RACING ?                         9/13     3:00-5:30AM      ESPN
F ATLANTIC, MID-OHIO (T)              9/13     7:30PM           TSN
Motor Sports Hour                     9/14     1:00-2:00AM      HTS*
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/14     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (Winston Cup@Darlington9/14     3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
IHRA MID-AMERICA NATIONALS,SCRIBNER(T)9/14     4:00-4:30AM      ESPN
INDY LIGHTS, VANCOUVER (T)            9/14     4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/15     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
FORMULA 1, MONZA, ITALY (T)           9/15     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (F1 @ Monza)           9/16     12:00-12:30AM    ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/16     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IOGP POWERBOATS, BAY CITY (T)         9/16     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/16     3:30-4:00AM      MTV
SCCA, TORONTO (T)                     9/16     4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (F1 @ Monza)           9/16     1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
Cycle World                           9/16     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     9/16     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (Ferrari 348)           9/16     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           9/16     8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     9/16     9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                9/16     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (L)    9/16    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
SpeedWeek                             9/17     12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
WORLD MOTORCYCLE GP, ITALY (T)        9/17     1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/17     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IOGP POWERBOATS, BAY CITY (T)         9/17     1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
Motoworld                             9/17     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (T)             9/17     7:00-10:00PM     HTS*
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (T)             9/18     1:00-4:00AM      HTS*

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

BUSCH GN, DOVER (L)                   9/18     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                9/19     12:00PM          TNN
IMSA GTP, PONTIAC (L)                 9/19     1:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, NAZARETH (T)              9/19     5:00PM           TSN
INDYCAR, NAZARETH (T)                 9/20     9:00-11:00PM  ESPN,TSN
SCCA TRANS-AM, WATKINS GLEN (T)       9/22     12:30AM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (L)      9/26     8:50-11:00AM     TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, MARTINSVILLE (L)         9/26     12:40PM          ESPN
NASCAR LATE MODEL, MARTINSVILLE (T)   9/26     9:30PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (SD)     9/26    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (T)      9/27     9:00-11:00PM     ESPN
BUSCH GN, ROUGEMONT (?)               10/02    TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, N. WILKESBORO (L)        10/03    1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/03    9:00-11:00PM  ESPN,TSN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/03   11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
NASCAR LATE MODEL, N. WILKESBORO (T)  10/04    9:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, LAGUNA SECA (T)           10/04    9:30PM           TSN
NHRA, KEYSTONE NATIONALS, READING (T) 10/05    10:30PM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, ELKART LAKE (T)        10/07    12:00AM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (?)               10/09    TBA              TBA
Formula Atlantic Season Summary       10/09    2:30-4:30PM      TSN
WINSTON CUP, CHARLOTTE (L)            10/10    1:00PM           TBS
IMSA GTP, PHOENIX (SD)                10/10    8:30PM           ESPN
NHRA NATIONALS, TOPEKA (T)            10/12    10:00PM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (?)            10/17    TBA              TBA
Hydroplane Racing, San Diego (T)      10/17    1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
NHRA NATIONALS, DALLAS (T)            10/17    10:00PM          ESPN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out RDS which broadcasts each race live. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim 
Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     ASN                Arizona                         Ben Loosli
     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
     PSN                Portland                       Mike Butts
  SportsChannel      San Francisco                     Chuck Fry
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 15:49:20 1993
Subject: Re: Air / Fuel Guage results
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6324
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>Air / Fuel Guage results & 



[...using lambda sensors with leaded fuel for quite some time.  They were
fortunate to have had GM donate a whole box full of sensors to the effort. 
They tell me the sensor will last for a few hours of dyno running.  The first
indication  of poisoning is sluggish response.  Sounds like yours should be
good for a couple of events.  JGD]

I'm not so fortunate in getting free O2 sensors ...   However, I
frequently use leaded racing fuel in my GN and have been able to make an O2
sensor last about a complete summer.  I find that they seem to "recover"
somewhat from leaded fuel by running the engine lean on unleaded pump gas for
awhile in between race days.  I keep a close eye on O2 cross counts to
determine when the "laziness" is setting in and it's time to change sensors.  I
like to see 25-40 cross counts at 2000 rpm under no load... when it drops to 20
or less, it's time to change.

I run unleaded pump gas to the track (about 65 miles one way), drain the little
unleaded left (I try to guess it so that the car's almost empty), fill with
racing gas, race the whole day, then drain the leaded stuff and replace with
unleaded and fill up before the return trip.  I turn the fuel pressure down for
the street so the ECM can run cruise A/F ratios easily and the O2 sensor seems
to last alot longer.  Of course, the GN is easy to drain fuel from, since I can
just hook a hose to the fuel rail, provide power to a convenient fuel pump test
connector,  and let the pump drain the tank.

I often run a mixture of 92 octane unleaded with a couple gallons of racing
fuel on the street also ... and still I get almost a full summer's use out an
O2 sensor (about $23).  It's kind of a "Spring tuneup" item any more for me.

Just some rambling $0.02 ....

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... honest officer, it's only a little V6 ..."


----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 15:55:21 1993
Subject: Re: Forwarded: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6325
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>< be aware that folks who have driven early (1989 and 1990) Dodges with
>Cummins-power and later (mid-1991 to present) have noted that the early engines
>are more responsive and powerful-feeling...  The original-author of this
>message *may* be driving one of the 'new' ones... I have a 1990...  WK>

>Walt K.

Nope.  I currently drive a 79 Monte Carlo with a targemaster 350. I 
gather from the posts that if I am going to put a a man sized diesel
in a truck, it should be at least a full sized truck.  I liked the idea
of the smaller truck since with a powerful diesel I would have a shot at
being faster than most of the other smaller trucks.  After consideration
of the advise (thanks), How about souping up one of the 5.9s to the 200+
hp that some of the 'stock' 5.9s are supposed to put out.  Would it 
be quicker than say a full size chevy with a 350 or one the the 'sport'
trucks like the 454ss or the screamer that ford puts out?

Back to equipment, I understand that keeping a tranny together under high
torgue can cause problems, but why the rear end?  Seems to me that with
the tranny converting engine power to drive train power that 200 hp from a
gas converted to a certain torque at a certain rpm will also equal
the same torque and same rpm when coming out of the diesel and the
appropriate gearing (but different gearing) from the tranny.

----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 16:00:48 1993
Subject: Re: Ford motors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6326
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have to say without a doubt the two barrel headed cleveland is the best bet
for a streetable Chevy killer, without going to the big blocks.  I had a
four-bolt two barrel cleveland in a 72 mustang.  I built up compression by
welding within the combustion chambers and installed aftermarket 4 barrel intake
manifold.  The Holley dominator supplied all the go juice this engine could
pull, and believe me this engine pulled.  On one occasion I broke 5 racing lug
bolts off the right rear axle at the starting line.  I have never had, or heard,
of a windsor that could do that.  The cleveland block was way ahead of its time,
and if it weren't for the emission revolution back in the seventies, Ford would
have made a killing.

But now Ford has a 4.2 (?) liter V-8 engine that cranks out over 600 horsepower.
They are using it exclusively in their indy race cars, but what a snag it would
be if they would only market it.  I, and my checkbook, are awaiting that glorius
day.

----------
Posted by: emory!iastate.edu!krylon
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 16:05:05 1993
Subject: NPT Taps et GFI Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6327
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


A while back the subject of "Where can I get NPT Taps" came up.  I think it 
was in reference to small block Chevy "freeze" plugs.  While looking for 
water filter parts, I found yesterday that Home Depot ( at least the 
local ones ) stock 1/2, 3/4 and 1" NPT taps.  It is likely that they can
get others.  Check your local Home Depot.

Also, there is a used machinery place locally ( next to AAA Appliance on 
Edinger ) that has a bucket of NPT taps.  Many are new.


While looking through a supply catalog here at work, I came across an item
of minor interest.  There is a company that now makes GFI plugs in a 
NEMA 5-15 style.  That's right, a slip-on GFI for your extention cords,
saws, grinders, etc.  Seems like a good idea to me, and I am thinking
about ordering a few for the double double duplex extention cords I made
up.  Where ever I work with power tools I'll be GFI protected.

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704
     extra line in my .rsig

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 16:10:31 1993
Subject: Re: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6328
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> That about what a rotary engine does.  A normally aspirated 13B, two
-> rotor engine (80ci) can do 160 hp from the factory :-).

 That 80CI is "displacement equivalent", not true displacement.
                                                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 16:14:17 1993
Subject: gear reduction starters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6329
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 I'd kind of like to run one of those cute little gear reduction
starters on my 351.  I don't want to pay a couple hundred bucks for one,
though.

 From the pictures, it looks like most of the aftermarket starters are
from small Japanese cars and have the reduction built in, with just a
nose adapter and the right pinion gear for the American flywheel.  That
part is no sweat with my midget machine shop.

 What starter is being used?  Just anything?  I know a wimpy little VW
starter can crank over a small block Chevy, 'cause that's what the V8 VW
guys used to do.
                 
[Guy at the parts store told me it is a Nissan starter. JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 16:18:46 1993
Subject: limited slip vs. posi
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6330
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Monte Marty wrote about his opinion on whether mid 80's Monte Carlo could
have been equipped with a "posi" rear.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but he is under the impression that a
positraction and a limited slip axle is different. Arn't they the same
animal? I always thought a limited slip, posi, traction lok, etc were
all accomplishing the same thing; to spin both tires for the most traction.

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 16:22:40 1993
Subject: TH-xxx 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6331
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The ST400 transmission I have is pretty compact; looks no bigger than
a TH350. It has a very short tail. This may turn out to be a slight
problem; the car it was in ('67 Wildcat 430) used a 2-piece driveshaft
and the tailshaft of the transmission did not have to accommodate any
slip, so it's really stubby. A one-piece unit needs at least an inch 
or so for suspension travel.

 I don't think you'll find any consensus on the value of switch-pitch
converters. They'll be of greatest benefit on cars with a peaky torque
curve that get street driven, and are set up to cruise (highway) at
less than 2500RPM. They're quite popular with BBB drag racers, who
generally modify their 455s for higher RPMs and sacrifice the engine's
normal smooth low end. The 455 never came with the ST400, since the
production runs' years did not overlap, but the 430/ST400 combo is
not hard to find. In fact, Mike, it might be an all-'round upgrade
to swap in the entire package if you find a good-running 430. I know
a guy who has put one in his GS-ified Skylark and he's camping
happily; using the stock 350 (Buick) mounts and radiator, 10.2:1
on pump gas. I think you'll be hard pressed to pull 360HP out of your
vrolet 350, for the $300 or so you'd pay for a beater Electra
organ donor. 

 The converters as stock had a low stall below 1000RPM, and the control
gizmo kept them in high stall at idle and at high throttle. This let 
Grampa's Electra use a cam with .490" lift and still idle without 
loosening his bridgework. If at all possible, get the gizmo along
with the transmission. It's a metal thing about 1' long attached to
the intake, driver's side and connected to the throttle linkage.

 These trannies only came in BOP pattern as far as I know. However,
you could take out the relevant guts and swap them into a Chevy TH400,
or go with an adapter plate. The former is probably preferable. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 19:41:28 1993
Subject: Re: Forwarded: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6332
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned what can be done to
hotrod a diesel. Multistage turbocharging can get the power
up well past 1 HP/in3, even without increasing the RPM range.
But I don't know much about the details. Are the injection pump
and nozzles changed to handle the higher fuel flow and pressure?
Is the static compression dropped to keep the peak pressure
under control? Is the timing also retarded and the injection period
lengthened to control peak pressure. Are oil cooled pistons mandatory? 
Does anyone out there have a clue as to what I'm talking about? :-)

I suspect that the biggest problem is the drivetrain. Where does 
one find a transmission that can handle 800 ft-lb input torque?

Norb Brotz                Cray Research Park    Internet: nbrotz@palm.cray.com
Sr. Programmer/Analyst    655F Lone Oak Drive   UUCP:     uunet!cray!nbrotz
Software Division         Eagan, Mn. 55121      phone:    (612) 683-5698

----------
Posted by: emory!palm.cray.com!nbrotz (Norb Brotz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 10 21:43:47 1993
Subject: High torque transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6333
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I am a little bit confused by the seeming shortage of high torque
transmissions mentioned on alt.hotrod. For a random datapoint, my stock
Olds 455 motor delivered around 500 ft-lbs of torque at less than 2000 rpm.
You could get a TH400 or a Muncie-M(20,21,22) from the factory to deal with
the torque.

Right now my motor is warmed up, pegging the dyno at 400 hp at 4800 rpm
at the wheel. I have a doug nash 4+1 transmission. I have had no transmission
problems.

I could imagain some problems if there was lots of torque at really low rpm's
AND you were in a very low gear (much lower than the 3.2 1st that I have).
If one had a transfer case, and a high numbered rear end, I could imagine
quite a bit of torque at the axles (I have a 2.47 rear end). However, I have
a hard time understanding how so much torque could get transferred to the
ground.

It seems to me that there is no shortage of high horsepower NASCAR, SCCA,
and drag cars that use either manual or automatic transmissions, with
high amounts of gear multiplication. There are lots of 500 HP+ GN style
cars that seem to have reliable transmissions.

I can believe that new OEM passenger cars have transmissions that have
low torque ratings.

	Jeff turbo Deifik	jdeifik@isi.edu		turbo@isi.edu

----------
Posted by: Jeff Deifik 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 11 07:34:34 1993
Subject: Hotrod diesel
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6334
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>I'm surprised that no one's mentioned what can be done to
>hotrod a diesel. Multistage turbocharging can get the power
>up well past 1 HP/in3, even without increasing the RPM range.
>But I don't know much about the details. Are the injection pump
>and nozzles changed to handle the higher fuel flow and pressure?

The injection pump is changed to deliver more fuel.  This may well 
require a different pump.  The primary goal, in spades, when
increasing diesel power is to deliver both more O2 and more
fuel.

>Is the static compression dropped to keep the peak pressure
>under control?

Yes.  The Cummins 'B' for example:

18.5:1  normally aspirated
17.5:1  turbocharged
16.5:1  turbocharged, aftercooled

>Is the timing also retarded and the injection period
>lengthened to control peak pressure.

No (with minor exceptions).

The pressure curve is exceptionally steep in a diesel engine when
the fuel begins to burn some few ms after injection begins, and for
obvious reasons this near-vertical rise must not occur before TDC.  
The "few ms" varies based on engine design and cylinder pressure, 
not on the amount of fuel injected. The stock engine will be timed 
with it safely sufficiently retarded.  Since the injection of
fuel before burning begins indeed raises the pressure a little, 
there may be a need for some very slight retardation. 

The higher the pressure which exists during burning, the more
efficient the engine, the primary advantage a diesel has over
a gasoline engine (with many well known analogues in gasoline
engine variants).  Thus, one is motivated to burn the fuel as 
early after TDC as possible. A diesel engine will have completed 
combustion well before BDC, and one does not wish to get any
closer to BDC, as would happen if one extended the injection
period rather than flow.

Diesels have a well known "smoke point" which is important for
more than pollution reasons.  The smoke point is reached when
the combustion process is consuming  80-85% of the available
O2 (varies a bit with engine design).  One can indeed get more
(as much as 10% more) power by injecting more fuel, thus consuming 
more O2, but at the expense of radically increased fuel consumption, 
not to mention incredibly dense clouds of carbon and, as the O2
consumption goes over 90%, unburned diesel and carbon monoxide.
Running an engine near this point (which is where "tractor" pullers
seem to run them) one may find one's self injecting for a longer
period.

>Are oil cooled pistons mandatory? 

Are they ever not mandatory?  All of the designs I've seen derive
partial piston cooling from oil which one way or another makes it 
onto the underside of the piston.  The Cummins has an oil jet directed 
onto the piston as it descends.  Or did you have some other notion of 
oil cooling?

>I suspect that the biggest problem is the drivetrain. Where does 
>one find a transmission that can handle 800 ft-lb input torque?

On any 18 wheeler? (They can take about twice that).
Actually, one can get Allison automatics, and a whole selection of 
"normal" (with syncros) transmissions which can take 800 ft-lb.  Your
local garbage truck is probably running an 800 ft-lb engine using an
Allison.

>Norb Brotz                Cray Research Park    Internet: nbrotz@palm.cray.com

Dan Hepner

----------
Posted by: Dan Hepner 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 11 07:38:38 1993
Subject: Re: Forwarded: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6335
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

High torque transmissions?  I think the ones in those supercharged, 
turbocharged 12 cylinder diesel Catapiller bulldozers will do the trick.
The even have the 30"-rotor disk brakes that you would need to stop....

Sure would be hard to put in a Dakota, though.

Mixing a few threads, why don't we see 12 cylinder piston port two stroke
diesels?  I have see some really big two stroke diesels, but never in a 
wheeled vehical.  Any good reason why?

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 11 11:41:49 1993
Subject: Re: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6336
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


OK...how about a REALLY crazy idea! What would it take to convert a
4 stroke V8 to a 2 stroke V8. Without giving it a whole lot of thought
spinning the cam at twice the 4 stroke speed would be a start. A "new"
cam would be needed as well. Ignition? Maybe... Would the counterbalance
on the crank have to be re-done?

Lets hear from you entreprenurial types...
***************************************************************************
*  STEVE PAZAR           DoD #702           Kawasaki KZ440A
*  E-mail:   pazar@hpnmdla.sr.hp.com
*  Ether:    WA4DUT/6
*  " Imagination is more important than knowledge "
***************************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!sr.hp.com!pazar (Steve Pazar)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 11 11:46:05 1993
Subject: gear reduction starters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6337
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [Guy at the parts store told me it is a Nissan starter. JGD]


 Well, that's closer than I was.  I'll scrounge around a bit.
                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 12 02:44:09 1993
Subject: Re: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6338
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Sep 11, 11:33, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
>
> OK...how about a REALLY crazy idea! What would it take to convert a
> 4 stroke V8 to a 2 stroke V8. Without giving it a whole lot of thought
> spinning the cam at twice the 4 stroke speed would be a start. A "new"
> cam would be needed as well. Ignition? Maybe... Would the counterbalance
> on the crank have to be re-done?
>

Wouldn't exhaust ports have to be milled into the block near the bottom
of the piston stroke?

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 12 02:51:16 1993
Subject: Re: High torque transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6339
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Sep 10, 20:44, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: High torque transmissions
> I am a little bit confused by the seeming shortage of high torque
> transmissions mentioned on alt.hotrod. For a random datapoint, my stock
> Olds 455 motor delivered around 500 ft-lbs of torque at less than 2000 rpm.
> You could get a TH400 or a Muncie-M(20,21,22) from the factory to deal with
> the torque.
>
> Right now my motor is warmed up, pegging the dyno at 400 hp at 4800 rpm
> at the wheel. I have a doug nash 4+1 transmission. I have had no transmission
> problems.


Several things come to mind:

1) It isn't just torque, but traction and weight.  800ft/lbs of torque
in a 1000lb car with skinny tires wouldn't stress the transmission
much.

2) As mentioned, the doug nash has a good reputation.

3) What about toploaders?  I know that's a popular transmission for
the 427 Cobra kit car guys.

4) My '79 F-700 3-ton has a 5-speed transmission in it.  Anybody know
what it is?  I'll bet it has a hefty torque rating.  I'll crawl under
and look at it sometime, if there is any interest.

5) C-6s and C-4s are used quite a bit by drag racing people with
some mighty stout engines.  What about a prepped C-6?

6) I would also think a Jerico would do the job.

-Bob



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 12 14:40:04 1993
Subject: Forwarded: Re: Forwarded: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6340
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Forwarded mail follows:

Mixing a few threads, why don't we see 12 cylinder piston port two stroke
diesels?  I have see some really big two stroke diesels, but never in a 
wheeled vehical.  Any good reason why?

< depends upon how big is 'really big'...  I, personally, consider the 736cid
of a Detroit Diesel 8V92 to be reasonably 'big'...  but, these are (I presume,
since the '-71' series are...) piston-ported for inlet and valved for exhaust
and may not quite qualify for your question...  also, I gotta presume you
really mean 'rubber-tired' since a railroad locomotive is most assuredly a
wheeled vehicle :-)  WK>

Walt K.
-------

[Hmm, now that you mention it, a locomotive COULD qualify as a hotrod.
Mebbe I ought to talk about the one I used to run.  What a hotrod!
1000 hp at 750 rpm!  A turbosupercharger big enough to fit a Yugo in.
At 3500 gallons, stopping for a fillup was an experience.
And after I broke the seal and cranked the injector rack up a little,
boy would that thing scoot!  Almost 60 mph with 500 tons of steel 
pipe strapped to the back.  OK, Ok, if you insist, yeah, hotrods probably
are limited to engines that turn over 1000 RPM.  *sob*  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 01:21:10 1993
Subject: Brake Cables....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6341
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


   A year or so ago, I yanked the TH-350 that was in my Cutlass and
put in a TH-400.    Only problem is that the parking brake cables are
now too long, since they were anchored to the tranny crossmember, and
the crossmember is now 3" back from it's previous position.   

   Parts books only list 2 cables, independent of the transmission
used.    Can anyone think of a way to shorten the cables by about 2
inches, or take 1" out of each cable?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  
            "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation"

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 09:39:10 1993
Subject: Re: Forwarded: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6342
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I suspect that the biggest problem is the drivetrain. Where does one
-> find a transmission that can handle 800 ft-lb input torque?

 The Ford Top Loader and the large Chrysler New Process four speed boxes
will both accept that kind of power.  If you get the Chrysler box from a
late-'80s Chevy pickup you can even get overdrive in fourth.

 Yes, Chevy has used Chrysler transmissions as well as German Getrag
boxes.  Buick has used Ford transmissions.  Jaguar, Ferrari, and others
have used Hydramatic boxes.  The Nissan 280ZX used the Borg Warner T5,
just like the Mustang and Camaro.  Chrysler even sold cars with Ford
drivelines in them after they boughts Sunbeam.


 The T400 and the big Torqueflite should handle 800 ft-lb withouth much
work.  I don't know how much the Ford C6 can take.
                                                                                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 09:51:31 1993
Subject: High torque transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6343
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Olds 455 motor delivered around 500 ft-lbs of torque at less than
-> 2000 rpm. You could get a TH400 or a Muncie-M(20,21,22) from the
-> factory to deal with the torque.

 Yes, you could get the Muncie behind the 455, but they won't last long
behind a big block.  The Warner T-10 was a stronger box, but GM was
stingy with them.


-> It seems to me that there is no shortage of high horsepower NASCAR,
-> SCCA, and drag cars that use either manual or automatic
-> transmissions, with high amounts of gear multiplication. There are
-> lots of 500 HP+ GN style cars that seem to have reliable
-> transmissions.

 The NASCAR and open-road SCCA cars are usually using high and next one
down; lots of the NASCAR boxes are just two speeds to reduce power loss.
The torque capacity of a box is rated in first gear, which is weakest.

 The drag guys almost always have troubles, even with the Ford and
Chrysler boxes (synchros, not gear or case failure).  With the late
Mustangs running the T5s, the transmission is very nearly a disposable
item.  The *strongest* T5 is only rated at 300 ft-lb.  A strong 302 will
deliver that, and coming off the clutch with slicks enough times will
still cause trouble.
     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 09:59:23 1993
Subject: Re: crazy idea: huge 2-stroke engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6344
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> OK...how about a REALLY crazy idea! What would it take to convert a 4
-> stroke V8 to a 2 stroke V8. Without giving it a whole lot of thought

 With the intake and exhaust both at the same end of the cylinder
efficiency would be very low.
                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 10:38:27 1993
Subject: Re: High torque transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6345
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> 4) My '79 F-700 3-ton has a 5-speed transmission in it.  Anybody know
-> what it is?  I'll bet it has a hefty torque rating.

 That's a TRUCK box.  It's a whole different animal from anything they
put in cars or pickups.


-> 6) I would also think a Jerico would do the job.

 If I remember right the Jerico uses motorcycle type shift dogs instead
of the usual car type couplers.  That layout will handle big amounts of
torque and ham-handed shifting, but it'd be a real crashbox on the
street.  No synchros at all.
                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 10:42:34 1993
Subject: Transmission Swap Data/Trivia
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6346
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 I measured the dimensions on the TH350 (375) in my van, and the ST400 on
my parts rack. Both are about 29" overall length from face ring to tail.
The TH350 tail mount is 21" back from the face. The ST400 is 27" back.
The ST400 body is not noticeably fatter. The body however stays fat further
back. The tail section on the TH350 is about 8" long while the ST400
has only a 2" stump. Moving the trans member back 6" definitely puts you
past "turn it around and see if it works that way", and probably past any
ideas of cutting the member and welding in a dogleg. Better to get a hole
saw and long drill, and make new mounting holes further back. The cross-
member sits on top of the frame rails, with through-bolts, on my A-body
and moving the location shouldn't be a big effort. I didn't check whether
the tailshafts of the two are compatible in diameter and number of splines,
but lengthwise the driveshaft should be OK for a straight swap. The ST400
youke uses big ol' U-joints so if a yoke swap is necessary, so will be 
one of those custom big-n-little U-joints.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 12:42:47 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6347
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: Brake Cables....
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: 
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1993 12:49:18 GMT
Lines: 23

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>   A year or so ago, I yanked the TH-350 that was in my Cutlass and
>put in a TH-400.    Only problem is that the parking brake cables are
>now too long, since they were anchored to the tranny crossmember, and
>the crossmember is now 3" back from it's previous position.   

>   Parts books only list 2 cables, independent of the transmission
>used.    Can anyone think of a way to shorten the cables by about 2
>inches, or take 1" out of each cable?

Well, you could do like they do on the '70s Chevy Pickups.  They have a
rod pulling the cable off to the side, thus making it tighter.  I have seen
someone do the same thing with one of those.... Crap, I don't know what
they are called.  Those things that have an eye-hook at both end and an
adjusting sleeve in the middle that you can screw both ends in and out.  I
think that they are supposed to be used on cable to take the slack out of
it.  This way the cable could still be adjustable.  Hope this helps. Later.

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 12:49:57 1993
Subject: Re: Forwarded: Re: Cummins diesel in Dodge Dakota (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6348
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Norb Brotz wrote about high output diesels:

>I suspect that the biggest problem is the drivetrain. Where does 
>one find a transmission that can handle 800 ft-lb input torque?

John Kilgore of Kilgore Transmissions in Burbank built a T400 for
a fellow who was breaking pinion gears in normal T400s.  The
modification was primarily in doubling the number of pinion gears
in the planetary set.  This makes an already strong transmission
even stronger.

I suspect that John would be willing to do another of these if
someone were interested.

Bob Hale               hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 15:35:59 1993
Subject: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6349
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm only two weeks away from getting my dream garage!

[Hey, congrats!]

It's a two-thousand square foot shop, concrete floor, complete with
hydraulic lift, security system, etc.  I can't wait!

Anyway, I want to paint the concrete floor like those Winston Cup
shops I've seen on TV.  I got some recommendations from my friends at
Datsun Dynamics.  I know I need to steam-clean, acid-wash, and
steam-clean the floor again before I try to paint it, and I'm going to
start calling some industrial paint companies.

I was wondering:

1) Has anyone on the list done the acid washing yourself?  Is it
dangerous and difficult, best left to a pro?

2) Any good or bad experiences with any brands or types of paint?

[Nothing to acid washing and it is not hazardous as long as you wear
appropriate clothing (rain suit, rubber boots and gloves) and use
adequate ventillation.  I don't think it is necessary.  After my fire, I
painted my shop floor with Sherwin-Williams epoxy paint.  About $100 for
a 2 gallon set.  This set covers about a 12X20 foot area.  The
instructions indicated no treatment other than degreasing old concrete
to be necessary.  I didn't even do that.  I simply pressure-washed my
floor to remove the old, very eroded enamel paint and then applied it
with a roller.  It dries overnight and is cured hard in a week.  It has
a beautiful gloss!  JGD]

3) Should I put grit it the paint for better traction?  Or does
this destroy the easy cleanup properties of the paint?

[Don't ruin it!!!  This finish is beautiful for working on.  Slick when
wet or oily but no more than regular cement.  BUT metal objects slide with
the greatest of ease.  I can sling my jack around with one hand.  I don't
even bother with a creeper anymore because a) the floor stays so clean
with only an occasional pressure washing and b) it is so slick, I can
slide easier than I can mess with a creeper.  An engine hoist can be 
positioned with one hand even with an engine on it.  And to move an (Datsun
Z) engine, I just sit it on the oil pan and push.  It's really hard to put
into words how this coating has changed the whole character of the shop.
JGD]

Thanks,

-Bob

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 17:39:37 1993
Subject: My trans has fallen and can't ...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6350
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have been mostly lurking here, but now I need some advice.  I have an '86
Regal T-Type with the SFI turbo V6 and 200R4 transmission and 145,000
miles.  Saturday night, after a brief run from 60 to 120 mph where
everything felt normal, the next time I floored it, it downshifted, the
rpm's went very high, the boost came up, but the car didn't go.  I stopped
and checked the trans fluid level, but it was less than 1 pt low.  No
puddles, smoke, funny noises.  I drove on home, and in each gear it felt
normal, but it wouldn't shift up until 4500 rpm or so.  Sunday I looked
closer, but still couldn't learn anything.  Forward and reverse work, and
each shift feels firm, but I haven't tried anywhere near full throttle.

What have I done?  And what can I do about it?  I have never worked on an
automatic tranmission other than changing the fluid and filter, and
watching a mechanic install a B&M shift kit in my car (2 years and about
30,000 miles ago).  I did reset the TV cable on the throttle plate, but it
didn't change the shift point.  I would appreciate any help you can give.

Regards,
Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 17:51:29 1993
Subject: fountain of oil / Hooker headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6351
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	If you want to see a fountain of 30-weight shoot up two feet
in the air, do what I did:    I was priming the oil pump on my
Chevy 350 with an electric drill and a priming shaft, and SPLOOSH, a fountain
of oil shot straight up in the air and all over the firewall and 
bell housing.
	I had forgotten to screw in the oil pump sender.   Duhhhh!   
Those high volume pumps really pump that oil fast!

        ========================================================

	Anyone tried Hooker "Competition" headers?  I just installed 
some in my '69 Camaro.  They seem to be sloppily made:  lumpy looking ports
and sloppy welds, but the installation was a snap.   The right one drops in
from above and the left one from underneath.  The only thing I had to remove
to get them in was the transmission shift linkage swivel bracket on the
frame.   They fit nicely in the engine compartment, and the spark plug access
is easy.   I used them to replace the old unknown brand headers which had
been munched numerous times by speed bumps.  Some of the primaries on the old
ones were about 75% closed -- yikes!  

	My '69 has pitiful ground clearance with 205-50s up front.  I need to
drive on blocks just to get the floor jack underneath.   I wish nobody had
ever invented speed bumps!  What a terrible idea!    

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 21:44:37 1993
Subject: remote bleeder?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6352
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone know of a setup for remoting the bleed nipple on a
hydraulic slave cylinder? Spitfires and GT6s suffer from having the
clutch slave mounted on the bellhousing in such a way that it is often
impossible to bleed the system without removing the tranny cover (which
means removing the center dash support first - a pain). It would be
lovely to find a fitting that takes, say, a -3 or -4 male at one end
and a bleed screw at the other, and had a bulkhead-style fitting in the
middle. A quick scan of the Earl's catalog doesn't reveal anything, but
this must be a problem in other setups as well.

Or even a tool that let me easily cut the hole/seat required for a
bleeder, so I can make my own remote fitting!

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 21:59:53 1993
Subject: Re: remote bleeder?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6353
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Sep 13, Chris Kent Kantarjiev wrote:

> Does anyone know of a setup for remoting the bleed nipple on a
> hydraulic slave cylinder? Spitfires and GT6s suffer from having the
> clutch slave mounted on the bellhousing in such a way that it is often
> impossible to bleed the system without removing the tranny cover (which
> means removing the center dash support first - a pain). It would be
> lovely to find a fitting that takes, say, a -3 or -4 male at one end
> and a bleed screw at the other, and had a bulkhead-style fitting in the
> middle. A quick scan of the Earl's catalog doesn't reveal anything, but
> this must be a problem in other setups as well.
> 
> Or even a tool that let me easily cut the hole/seat required for a
> bleeder, so I can make my own remote fitting!

Sure there is- Tilton uses a remote bleeder on his trick hydraulic
throwout bearings. Pegasus lists several bleeder screws- there are two
that are 3/2-24, which is 3AN size, so you could stick one of those in
one end of a 3AN flex line- I think that that's exactly how Tilton
does it, by the look of the picture in their catalog. 

Pegasus also has a 1/8" NPT two-piece bleeder assembly, so that you
can tap out stripped threads and replace a dead bleeder with one of
those.

Probably the easiest way to do it would be to find the right adapter
for the current bleeder screw port (if it's 3/8-24, you're in luck-
just run a 3AN union in and seal it with a crush washer), run a
regular 3AN flex line to a bulkhead union on the bodywork, and then
install your bleeder on the other side. There's also a trick gage
adapter that is essentially a 4AN male to 1/8" NPT female bulkhead
union that might make it even easier. You'd put the 1/8" NPT bleeder
assembly in that, mount it in a hole in the bodywork with the bleeder
inside, and run a 4AN flex down to the cylinder. If worse really came
to worse, you could drill and tap the cylinder to 1/8" NPT, and use a
1/8" NPT male-4AN male union.

Lots of ways to do it- the latter is probably the tidiest, at least
for a clutch system, now that I think about it. Cost would be about
$10 plus the flex line. Piece of cake.

-skod

--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@sun.COM



----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Scott.Griffith (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 13 22:06:39 1993
Subject: Re: My trans has fallen and can't ... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6354
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I have been mostly lurking here, but now I need some advice.  I have an '86
>Regal T-Type with the SFI turbo V6 and 200R4 transmission and 145,000
>miles.  
   
   [Sudden lack of shifting deleted]

>No puddles, smoke, funny noises.  I drove on home, and in each gear it felt
>normal, but it wouldn't shift up until 4500 rpm or so.  Sunday I looked
>closer, but still couldn't learn anything.  Forward and reverse work, and
>each shift feels firm, but I haven't tried anywhere near full throttle.

     Sounds like a stuck governor, since as I recall, these units shift
off the T.V. cable, not a vaccum modulator.  

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  
            "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation"


----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 07:44:00 1993
Subject: HD transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6355
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> The T400 and the big Torqueflite should handle 800 ft-lb withouth much
>work.
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

"Should handle" is subject to definition.  There's a big difference
between "it won't tear itself apart the first time you hit the pedal",
and "it will last 100k miles at this torque rate".  Neither of these 
transmissions would last 10k miles at an average torque of even 
400 ft-lb, but both should no doubt do 100k miles if they spent 
5 sec at 800 ft-lb and the rest of the time at 150 ft-lb.  Now
it might well be that the context "hotrod" supplies the
definition, and the definition has nothing to do with long
life; if so, fine. If that's not what everyone imagines, continue 
on.

Check out the failure modes of pickup automatics used for heavy
duty towing.  This towing doesn't increase the maximum torque, it
increases the average torque and the duration of periods at
high torque.  For some reasonable definitions, none of them, 
including the T400, can "handle" even 400 ft-lb (e.g. a truck 454),
not even close.  Medium duty trucks (3-5 "ton"), intended to be used
loaded much of their lives, frequently have very similar or
exactly the same engines that are available in pickups, about
400 ft-lb.  But they always have the heavier transmissions and 
rear-ends which can sustain actually _using_ that torque.

Dan Hepner

----------
Posted by: Dan Hepner 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 07:48:50 1993
Subject: Re: 350 Target Master Engine Questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6356
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>
>
> As to my wanting a late model LT1 equivalent, my plan is to install
> the engine in a '72 240Z, with TPI. The problem with most aftermarket
> engines has to do with CA smog laws regarding engine swaps. I would
> love to have someone provide me with a complete Vette driveline, but
> I do not have the cash that most yards require. I was thinking that I
> might be able to use the 350 I already have as a base, changing parts
> as required to turn it into an LT1 equivalent.
>
>
> Any suggestions with the above goal in mind (350 TPI LT1 in a '72 240Z,
> meeting CA smog laws) would be appreciated. Thank>

I think i can give some advise on your project. I have a 72 240Z with a 350
chevy mated to a T5 5speed trans. (the t5 is a recent swap i had a turbo 350 in
the car originaly.
1- from what i understand of the smog laws you must meet the standard of the
newer of the two components the engine or the car. In your case any smog legal
engine of 72 vintage or newer would work.
2- i drive my car on the street and at one time had considered switching to a
tpi unit. I have given up on the idea,  tpi was developed to promote
low end torque(the last thing you need)as you would be more likely to break
something.

i would try the swap with the engine you have or an early 70's carb version and
go from there, if you decided you had to have the tpi you could go with one of
the aftermarket conversion setups on the engine that is in the car.

i have been very happy with my swap. i used engine mount spacers that i
measured form a conversion kit on someone elses car (dont pay money for mounts
the are easy to make. i have since modified them to move the engine as far back
as possible and relocated the hood latch. i used street rod style block huging
headers. the car is very fast but very traction limited. i currently have 225/50
15 tires all the way around but am thinking of going to 16in wheels and wider
tires(i have flares in the rear) but parts breakage scares me.

 if you have any other questions i would be happy to try and help.

John C. Haley

e-mail:poneleint@student.msu.edu

----------
Posted by: Loelle S Poneleit 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 07:52:54 1993
Subject: fountain of oil / Hooker headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6357
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I had forgotten to screw in the oil pump sender.   Duhhhh!
-> Those high volume pumps really pump that oil fast!

 Yeah, but imagine the mess if you'd just fired the engine up without
priming it first!

[Ahem.  Guilty as charged.  Duuuh.  Was changing the oil pressure
sender on the Bimmer.  Phone call, walked away.  Came back,
forgot I hadn't screwed the new one in.  Cranked that sucker up.
Did you know there's a paint called Kilz that will cover even soaked
in oil on sheetrock?  Got to paint a whole wall.  JGD]

-> Anyone tried Hooker "Competition" headers?  I just installed
-> some in my '69 Camaro.  They seem to be sloppily made:  lumpy looking
-> ports and sloppy welds, but the installation was a snap.

 Yeah.  We had a set in Monzilla.  The tubes weren't welded all the way
around at the header flanges, which were *very* thin and wouldn't hold a
gasket.  The tubes came in a dozen pieces which always leaked.  The
headers were aluminized, but the coating burned off after a few weeks
and the headers had rusted through in spots after a year.  The oil pan
had to be removed to get to the starter; I hated the headers.
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 11:41:07 1993
Subject: Re: HD transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6358
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Check out the failure modes of pickup automatics used for heavy
> duty towing.  This towing doesn't increase the maximum torque, it
> increases the average torque and the duration of periods at
> high torque.  For some reasonable definitions, none of them, 
> including the T400, can "handle" even 400 ft-lb (e.g. a truck 454),
> not even close.  Medium duty trucks (3-5 "ton"), intended to be used
> loaded much of their lives, frequently have very similar or
> exactly the same engines that are available in pickups, about
> 400 ft-lb.  But they always have the heavier transmissions and 
> rear-ends which can sustain actually _using_ that torque.
> 

This is suprising as we were told by all the major players that an automatic
was "stronger" and more "reliable" than a manual for towing and pulling.

I opted for the 5 speed in my diesel ford pickup, as I have had much better
luck with them than with auto.  The Ford 250 auto is rated higher gross than
the manual, though in all the literature.....as was the dodge

Oh well buyer beware....

dave

> Dan Hepner
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: Dan Hepner 
>  
> 
> 
> 


--
Dave Dabay       Telecommunications Engineer Supervisor      KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu

----------
Posted by: dave dabay 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 11:46:01 1993
Subject: Brake Cables....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6359
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> used.    Can anyone think of a way to shorten the cables by about 2
-> inches, or take 1" out of each cable?

 No sweat.  Run down to your local hardware store and pick up a couple
of "table tighteners."  These are a stirrup and U-bolt thingie that take
up slack in cables.
                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 14:45:16 1993
Subject: Re: Hooker Headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6360
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Regarding the recent discussions on headers, Hooker in particular:

> 
> -> Anyone tried Hooker "Competition" headers?  I just installed
> -> some in my '69 Camaro.  They seem to be sloppily made:  lumpy looking
> -> ports and sloppy welds, but the installation was a snap.
> 
>  Yeah.  We had a set in Monzilla.  The tubes weren't welded all the way
> around at the header flanges, which were *very* thin and wouldn't hold a
> gasket.  The tubes came in a dozen pieces which always leaked.  The
> headers were aluminized, but the coating burned off after a few weeks
> and the headers had rusted through in spots after a year.  The oil pan
> had to be removed to get to the starter; I hated the headers.

I'm just about done with a 454 build, and will be looking at things like
headers, converters, gears, etc.  It's replacing the stock 250 (that's not a 
typo - straight 6) in my 71 Malibu, so a lot has to be changed.  Hard to
believe a car that size would come stock with a 1 barrel carb and a 2 speed 
tranny.  I was naive when I bought it.  What can I say?

Anyway, the headers which had been recommended to me, for cost, performance, 
and ease of installation, were the Hooker Comps.  I'm kind of alarmed to see
posts come so quickly against them.  More expensive are the Super Competition
headers from Hooker, but maybe they're just as much trouble.  Anyone have 
better luck with them or know of a different set which would be better?  I'm 
pretty new to this game, so any help is much appreciated.  Thanks.

Paul

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Posted by: Paul Olson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 14:54:22 1993
Subject: HEAVY DUTY TRAILERING
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6361
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I was wondering if anybody out there can help me with a few question?
I would like to buy a '94 1500 Blazer and use it to tow an enclosed car trailer
+car. This would weigh (trailer+car) about 6500-7000 lbs.
I know that there is enough power there to manage that much weight. ie. 210hp.
But the real question is will the suspension be able to handle that weight?
The specs. say that the Blazer can tow up to 7000lbs. max. 
-But what is the max. in reality?
-What would be the best transmission, manual/automatic? 
 GM recommends the 4-speed auto. but I would prefer the 5-speed manual.
-How will either affect towing? and power? and torque?
There is also the matter about rear axle ratio.  There are two options a 3.42
and a 3.73 ratio, I believe.  GM recommends the 3.73 for heavy towing. 
-Is this a wise choice?
**I also would like to get the whole kit and kabootle so to say with heavy duty
suspension, shocks, oil/tranny cooler.
I also realize that the hitch would have to be weight-dist., elec. brakes, and
sway bar.
I have already tried GM's info. line and they just tell me stuff that is right
in the book in front of me.

Can anybody give me some REAL answers?

	Marty

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Posted by: emory!vms.csd.mu.edu!2SS1EBERHARD
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 15:04:14 1993
Subject: Re: HD transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6362
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Dan Hepner writes:
>For some reasonable definitions, none of them, 
>including the T400, can "handle" even 400 ft-lb (e.g. a truck 454),
>not even close.  Medium duty trucks (3-5 "ton"), intended to be used
>loaded much of their lives, frequently have very similar or
>exactly the same engines that are available in pickups, about
>400 ft-lb.  But they always have the heavier transmissions and 
>rear-ends which can sustain actually _using_ that torque.

If you want to use a T400 under continuous heavy load conditions
there are some things that you should do:

1. Replace the thrust washers with needle bearings.  While you are
at it, set the end play of the tailshaft to .000 to .001 but don't
compress the needle bearings.

2. Improve the lubrication, especially to the planetary gears.
There have been substantial variations in the factory oiling to
the critical areas over the years so there isn't any single
recommendation.  You have to check out what you've got and then
figure out how to get more oil in there while the gears are moving.
Usually, a combination of judicious saw slots in the right places,
a few drilled holes, and use of the better factory parts will do
the job.  The factory didn't seem to learn that the lubrication
system was weak until after they had lost all their people that
knew the T400.  (Well, almost all.  They've got one left but I
don't know what happens when he retires.)

3. Use the appropriate HD stuff that I have mentioned before -
HD center support, cast pistons, 34 tooth sprag on the back of the
direct clutch, roller clutch on the 1-2 overrun, a case that takes
a spacer ring between the center support and the case, etc.  A
6 plate pair direct clutch pack is desirable.

4. If at all possible, use a wide gear pump.  This has higher
volume and draws more power but it moves more oil and the surplus
oil helps to cool and lubricate.

5. Use an external transmission cooler.

Bob Hale               hale@brooktree.com

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Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 17:42:20 1993
Subject: HD transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6363
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>> Check out the failure modes of pickup automatics used for heavy
>> duty towing.  This towing doesn't increase the maximum torque, it
>> increases the average torque and the duration of periods at
>> high torque.  For some reasonable definitions, none of them, 
>> including the T400, can "handle" even 400 ft-lb (e.g. a truck 454),
>> not even close

>This is surprising as we were told by all the major players that an automatic
>was "stronger" and more "reliable" than a manual for towing and pulling.
>
>I opted for the 5 speed in my diesel ford pickup, as I have had much better
>luck with them than with auto.  The Ford 250 auto is rated higher gross than
>the manual, though in all the literature.....as was the dodge
>dave

Most people who tow prefer the automatic; as a sales technique, potential 
customers are reassured that the automatic is fine for this purpose. Ford
does indeed rate their auto higher than the standard, while Dodge rates 
their standard higher than the auto.

In the first order analysis however, they're all (auto, manual, GM, Dodge,
Ford) about the same. The fact that the GCWR are dependent upon
transmission demonstrate that the transmission is either the weak link,
or very nearly so. On a sustained basis, these transmission can handle 
about 150 ft-lb, with occasional bursts to 400 ft-lb, and last indefinitely.
This fits one common usage pattern of pickups fine.  Once you frequently 
offer them 400 ft-lb, their expected life begins to drop, and those who
tow 7-10k lb all the time know well that their transmission cannot be 
expected to last 100k miles.  This is tolerated by consumers as "handling 
it", but this reliability would not be tolerated by commercial users, who 
use significantly stronger components behind similar engines (as well as 
larger brakes, frames, etc).  They pay a lot more up front, get less fuel
mileage, and in many places, pay a lot more for license and insurance as well.

Dan Hepner (Dodge Cummins, 5-spd, no trailer)

----------
Posted by: Dan Hepner 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 17:50:01 1993
Subject: Re: HD transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6364
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>> Check out the failure modes of pickup automatics used for heavy
>> duty towing.  This towing doesn't increase the maximum torque, it
>> increases the average torque and the duration of periods at
>> high torque.  For some reasonable definitions, none of them, 
>> including the T400, can "handle" even 400 ft-lb (e.g. a truck 454),
>> not even close.  Medium duty trucks (3-5 "ton"), intended to be used
>> loaded much of their lives, frequently have very similar or
>> exactly the same engines that are available in pickups, about
>> 400 ft-lb.  But they always have the heavier transmissions and 
>> rear-ends which can sustain actually _using_ that torque.
>> 

I have wondered how they come up with the maximum towing rating.  I
use an 85 GMC Jimmy for towing grain wagons.  The 1/2 ton truck is
rated for 5,000 lbs of towing capacity.  I typically tow them 
in 4wd low.  I run at 25 mph (just high enough to get it in OD).
the loaded wagons weigh 20000 to 22500lbs.  I usually pull 1 but
on occasion I pull 2.  When they are empty (about 4000 lbs a piece)
I pull in 2wd at about 45 to 50 mph in OD.  The mileage is about 7mpg
The truck is also used to pull a camper.  In the flats it gets about
10 mgp, and in the hills it gets about 8mpg.  Even with different
gearing the rating doesn't go up a lot.  The only problems that 
we've had in the drive train is a bad pinion gear at about 20,000
and a bad U-joint at 80,000.  

Mark W. Blunier mwbg9715@age2.age.uiuc.edu

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Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 17:56:34 1993
Subject: Re: Hooker Headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6365
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Paul Olson writes:
>Anyway, the headers which had been recommended to me, for cost, performance, 
>and ease of installation, were the Hooker Comps.  I'm kind of alarmed to see
>posts come so quickly against them.  More expensive are the Super Competition
>eaders from Hooker, but maybe they're just as much trouble.  Anyone have 
>better luck with them or know of a different set which would be better?  I'm 
>pretty new to this game, so any help is much appreciated.  Thanks.

I had two sets of Hooker headers and I found that they were basically
junk.  The metal was thin, the welds were inexpertly done, the bolt holes
weren't quite in the right places, and they didn't last.

If you are willing to pay the price, I would suggest Doug Thorley
headers.  They are robust and they are carefully manufactured.  My
current set is about 10 years old and is still OK.

I hope that the place is still called Doug Thorley; it was bought
by someone else several years ago and I haven't done business with
them since that time.  They were based in California.

Bob Hale              hale@brooktree.com

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Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 18:01:53 1993
Subject: Re: HEAVY DUTY TRAILERING
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6366
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> I was wondering if anybody out there can help me with a few question?
> I would like to buy a '94 1500 Blazer and use it to tow an enclosed car trailer
> +car. This would weigh (trailer+car) about 6500-7000 lbs.
> I know that there is enough power there to manage that much weight. ie. 210hp.
> But the real question is will the suspension be able to handle that weight?
> The specs. say that the Blazer can tow up to 7000lbs. max. 

>From my experience the specs are a little unreal...If you only tow 
two or three times a year on the flats for a short distance you would 
probably be fine...

Unless you move into the 454, you may be disappointed with performance
and fuel economy.  Even then the 454 is a thirsty beast.  If you are
going to tow ALOT then move up to the suburban....you willneed the
weight and wheelbase for safety in stopping or bad weather.

> -But what is the max. in reality?

Two scenarios for you:
	Suburban 454 TH400 373 gears 145000 miles....able to pull
	almost anything ( I have pulled a small JD loader and trailer
	gross bout 13000lbs)but  I get 5-7mpg...

	Full size Bronco 302 auto 35? gears 121000 miles able to pull about
	6500 lbs and still get 10-11 mpg

Both are safe on the flats, but I would much rather have the suburban out on 
the road for stopping power and safety in handling.
> -What would be the best transmission, manual/automatic? 

The dealers say auto.....but I bought 5 speed in my F250 turbo diesel, 
I haven't got the hitch on it yet to see how it does, em pty it gets
17-19mpg around town.

>  GM recommends the 4-speed auto. but I would prefer the 5-speed manual.

Ford recommended the auto as being stronger too...???  I don't agree

> -How will either affect towing? and power? and torque?

With an auto you will learn to always load so that you take off down hill
or you may not move....  I have always been able to slip the clutch enough
to get moving with a manual.

> There is also the matter about rear axle ratio.  There are two options a 3.42
> and a 3.73 ratio, I believe.  GM recommends the 3.73 for heavy towing. 
> -Is this a wise choice?  

I like the higher gears but it limits your top speed and kills mpg when you
are not towing....How much will you really be towing??

> **I also would like to get the whole kit and kabootle so to say with heavy duty
> suspension, shocks, oil/tranny cooler.

Go with the oil cooler at least, and if you do any off road/pit type
work go for the heavy duty stuff...the factory does a pretty good job
and you don't have to worry about voiding the warranty by add ons yourself.

> I also realize that the hitch would have to be weight-dist., elec. brakes, and
> sway bar.
> I have already tried GM's info. line and they just tell me stuff that is right
> in the book in front of me.

In my experience they don't know a whole lot about these things... If 
you have a local Antique Auto Club America chapter around
they often have a guru of trailering stuff to help..

I hope this helps you get started... I pull a John Deere loader and my wife
has two belgian horses (about 2200lbs each) that we move around quite 
a bit... I am looking forward to the Turbo Diesel and see how it does.

dave


--
Dave Dabay       Telecommunications Engineer Supervisor      KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu

----------
Posted by: dave dabay 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 20:43:44 1993
Subject: Re: Hooker Headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6367
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Cheap headers rust.  In New England, cheap headers ( when driven all year ) 
last about two summers.  Good headres are expensive.  Stainless steel is the
way to go, but it is expensive, and it is expensive.  I have seen good, tri-y
stainless headers for about $500.  Ouch.  This probably explains the
popularity of cheap headers.  Buy them, get good stainless steel bolts
( ARP makes a set ) and consider the headers disposable.  Good fasteners
will make it easy to remove them in a year or so.

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704

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Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 20:53:41 1993
Subject: Re:  HEAVY DUTY TRAILERING
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6368
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Just a few somewhat thoughts about Blazers and trailers.  

My dad has been through three, and for towing heavy things, the auto is handy.
I have driven a 71, 78 and 83? with a couple of tons in tow.  They are
not the best tow vehicals.  If you have the $, get a Suburban.

Go for the biggest tranny cooler you can get, and get the large gas tank 
( like is standard in the Suburban. ) 

The tranny available will be the 4L60E.  At least two companies have overdrive
units for this.  US Gear advertises in Trailer Life or some other such mag.
They have an 0.80 over ( or under ) drive unit.  If you get this in addition
to the lowest ration rear end GM will sell you, you can tow and still get 
good non-towing gearing.  Costs like $1200, rated at 400 ft-lbs continuous
(if I remember correctly).  The combination of the 0.70 od in the
4L60E and the 0.80 in the USG gives 0.56 od.  You could run 4.56
gears, and have it act like 2.56 gears with just-a-TH350-in-3rd when in 
in 4th-OD.

Just think, this combined with the two speed transfer case gives you
4 * 2 * 2 = 16 speeds forward and 1 * 2 * 2 = 4 in reverse!  A
suitable gear for any hill. 

If you live where it is hot, see if you can get the dual fan option, where
you have a primary mechanical fan and a supplementary electric.  

The heavy duty spring option makes for a really bad ride when driving unladen
on bumpy dirt roads.  This, when combined with the Blazer's short wheelbase, 
and if you put large tires on it, can make medium speed driving difficult, 
unless you like to slide.

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704

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Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 21:03:29 1993
Subject: Re: Hooker Headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6369
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Anyway, the headers which had been recommended to me, for cost, performance, 
>and ease of installation, were the Hooker Comps.  I'm kind of alarmed to see
>posts come so quickly against them.  More expensive are the Super Competition
>headers from Hooker, but maybe they're just as much trouble.  Anyone have 
>better luck with them or know of a different set which would be better?  I'm 
>pretty new to this game, so any help is much appreciated.  Thanks.
>
>Paul

We have run _many_ different headers over the years...  and I have
never been let down by Hedman.  We have run them out of the box on common
vehicles like Chevelles and Camaros as well as strange shit like
a '64 Plymouth Fury 383.  No problems.

$.02
jC.  jca@fibercom.com

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Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James C. Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 21:12:58 1993
Subject: Header comments
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6370
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm the guy that just bought the Hooker headers.  Yes, they are made pretty
sloppy, but after doing a lot of comparison, I decided that they'd give me
the most horsepower per the buck.  I took a while looking at other brands and
talked to a lot of other people that have used them.  Here's what I figured
out:  

	In the $60 to $100.00 range you have your choice of Hedman, Hooker,
Blackjack and probably other cheapo brands.  Of these, they're all made of
the same flimsy steel with mediocre quality and a limited lifespan.  Even if
they have some fancy hi-temp coating, they'll eventually look like rusty old
pipes.  I've had some Blackjacks before, they lasted for about ten years in a
'67 Chevy.  But they never did stay sealed at the flange for more than about
a week.  The cost of replacement gaskets gets to be a drag after a while. 
The Blackjacks fit lousy and the spark plug changing was a chore.  They did
give me a big boost in horsepower though.  Of the cheapo brands, I think the
Hookers give you the best spark plug clearance and ease of installation. 
They have a larger selection of headers for certain applications.

	I had to decide whether I was going to get headers which were cheap
and which gave me the horsepower I crave, or whether I was going to get some
good quality headers which wouldn't give me as much horsepower.  The nicest
headers I've seen quality-wise are the Kerkers and the Sandersons.  Kerker
makes some stainless steel street rod headers with 1/2" thick flanges --
they're beautiful, but there super short primaries probably rob some
horsepower.  They also cost something like $350.00.  Sanderson makes some
really nice block-hugger headers starting at about $150 on up.  But the short
primaries probably cut down on the horsepower.  If you want some headers that
will never leak, get the cast Sanderson headers.  They may not give you the
most horsepower, but they won't leak and they look nice.  I saw some at the
Goodguys show -- top quality!

	I'll be happy if the Hookers I'm putting on last a few years without
any monster leaks.  They have 1-5/8" primaries and 3-1/2" collectors.  The
primaries have nice smooth bends and they're fairly long.  I think they'll
make nice headers for the street (maybe even at the drags).

	After I get my tailpipes hooked up, I'll let you know how they work
out.

	Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 21:20:51 1993
Subject: HD transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6371
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> "Should handle" is subject to definition.  There's a big difference
-> between "it won't tear itself apart the first time you hit the
-> pedal", and "it will last 100k miles at this torque rate".  Neither
-> of these transmissions would last 10k miles at an average torque of

 You have a valid point, but there's a "service factor" to take into
consideration.  Most auto and hot rod transmissions are only under
maximum torque for short periods of time.  Heavy trucks tend to work
near max for extended periods.  That's why real trucks usually have real
truck transmissions.  An 800 ft-lb pass down the strip ain't much
compared to pulling a 15% grade for ten miles, loaded with crushed rock.


-> Check out the failure modes of pickup automatics used for heavy duty
-> towing.  This towing doesn't increase the maximum torque, it
-> increases the average torque and the duration of periods at
-> high torque.  For some reasonable definitions, none of them,
-> including the T400, can "handle" even 400 ft-lb (e.g. a truck 454),

 The problem isn't holding the torque - as long as you don't snap the
input shaft or boil the fluid in the torque convertor, everything's
gonna be fine.  The problem lies in shifting - a blown big block on the
strip might shift three times in the course of a run, probably with
a shift kit to crispen things up.  The rest of the time it's just
driving around town.  A dump truck is going to be shifting under full
load every single time; the clutches and hubs may not be loaded like
they would be in a hot rod, but they're loaded every time.
                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 21:29:19 1993
Subject: fountain of oil / Hooker headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6372
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [Ahem.  Guilty as charged.  Duuuh.  Was changing the oil pressure
-> sender on the Bimmer.  Phone call, walked away.  Came back,
-> forgot I hadn't screwed the new one in.  Cranked that sucker up.

 Ah... I put together a 194 inch Chevy six once.  I couldn't even FIND
the damned sender hole.  I finally had to fire it up and find out where
oil was squirting from.  Turned out to be under the side cover behind
the distributor.  I'd probably never have found it without pulling the
engine back out - you can't see it from above.


-> Did you know there's a paint called Kilz that will cover even soaked
-> in oil on sheetrock?  Got to paint a whole wall.  JGD]

 Sheetrock is $3.50 for a 4x8 sheet.  Unless the paint is real cheap,
it'd be cheaper to rerock the wall.  
                                   
[Yeah, but now you're talking about real work as opposed to tossing some
paint in the spray gun and blazing away.  Besides..  Replacing sheetrock
is admitting that the sucka got me. :-)  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 21:37:00 1993
Subject: Re: HEAVY DUTY TRAILERING
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6373
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> 
> I was wondering if anybody out there can help me with a few question?
> I would like to buy a '94 1500 Blazer and use it to tow an enclosed car 
trailer
> +car. This would weigh (trailer+car) about 6500-7000 lbs.
> I know that there is enough power there to manage that much weight. ie. 210hp.
> But the real question is will the suspension be able to handle that weight?
> The specs. say that the Blazer can tow up to 7000lbs. max. 

I'm kinda in the same boat -cept I can't/won't afford a $25K plus truck.

Currently I have a 75 Chevy blazer with the heavy duty muncie 4-sp
(6.0:1 Low, 3.0:1 1st, 2.0:1 2nd and 1.0:1 drive) axle ratio is 3.07 and
tire size is 33" (no misprint).  The most I've ever towed is about 5000
- 5500 lbs.  No problem just use 93 octain!!  The biggest problem with
using a manual transmission for towing is the startup.  With an
automatic you stab the gas and go.  Up hill with a clutch requires some
clutch slippage (more than usual).  Since my blazer was a daily driver I
learned to hate the manual trans.  A 5-speed would porbably be better
but stop and go gets old real fast.  55 mph was never a problem -
neither was 75 - just don't get in my way :-).  With a good portion of
the weight on the tongue (front engine car only) I never had any sway
problems.  In fact it felt better than normal.  Due to the weird
gear/tire combo it did wipe out the clutch.

I'm now half-heartidly looking for a truck.  I looking at Pickups
because I'm tired of carring dirty/ oily engine parts in the Blazer
(keeps the rust down though :-)).  Looking at Chevy because of the
independant front suspension on their 4 wheel drive models (don't like
the non-adjustability of the Ford twin I-beam).  Looking at Automatic /
350 / 3/4 or 1 ton with Silverado trim.  Automatic because its going to
be a daily driver.  350 because 454 cost more and gets about 11/12 EPA
ratings (at least the SS version).  3/4 or 1 ton since theses come with
a heavier frame and with the new HD automatic with over drive (praying
for 15 mpg city and 17 highway).  The HD automatic is based losely on
the TH400 which is probably GM's strongest light duty automatic - now
they just added an overdrive.  This transmission was only available on
2500 and 3500 series trucks - at least as of 1992 or so.  The 1/2 ton
trucks and probably the blazers are bast on the TH700 - the same trans
for the comaros and corvettes.

With the following options
3/4 ton c6p frame
350 engine (HD emissions bring it down to 190 hp)
Autotrans - $700 dealer invoice price
Silverado Package - $2000 give or take - includes Air Conditioning
Power Windows / Locks - I'm tired of reaching across the blazer while buckled-in
Spare Tire - under truck - can't believe they make you pay $300+ for this
Tach - I'd just add one later anyway
Locking Rear differential - My blazer got stuck in the last snow storm for lack
    of this option - two wheels spinning...

Retail includeing shipping ($600) was about $24000
The dealers price to me closer to $20000 about $400 a month

I would have to add my own rear bumper.
Oil Cooler and Trans Cooler - rather install these myself - getting bigger 
   capacity of course.
Hitch - get a real Class III 5000/10000 lbs hitch and do the wiring myself.

GVW was 8600 lbs with about 4100 lbs empty (2tons hauling from a 3/4 ton !!!)

The 3500 series was about $35 less since it came with the 350 standard.
GVW was 9200 lbs with about 5000 lbs empty weight (with out dual rear
wheels - less hauling capacity than the 3/4 ton.  But it would come with
the extra heavy duty rear axle (full floating 8-lug rear) - At this
point tires seem to be the limiting factor.

I'm kinda leaning towards the 3/4 ton since I see so many signs about no
through trucks over 3/4ton etc...  I doubt any cop could tell the
difference but I'm wandering what other restrictions might exist.  Also
those extra 1000 lbs could really eat into any gas milage...

Or maybe I should refinance my house instead......

Dirk

PS Just remember the Blazer probably doesn't have the same trans as the
2500 / 3500 trucks have.  Oh and don't ask the salesman - he doesn't
know - but he could tell you what colors are available :-)


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 23:39:20 1993
Subject: silly question Part II
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6374
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

So whats the difference between Posi track and Limited slip

OK. Spools are locked differentials
Gleason-Torsion - are a worm gear derivative
Detroit Lockers - are a ratchet type rear with all power going to 
the slower wheel

So what is a posi rear and what is a limited slip - are they just 
different degrees of clutch pressure?

What would my 76 Trans Am have?  - definitly leaves two black marks

Thanks for your time

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 23:47:13 1993
Subject: Stuff for sale Pontiac - 76 TA and 78 Grand Prix
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6375
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I can't remember if I ever posted this but:

I have a 76 Trans Am limited edition for sale

It is a parts car or a tough project car.

Suspension all OK with factory sway bars / raidal tuned springs

Quick ratio steering.

Glass all OK with very small pit in front wind shield

Interior absolute junk - no center consol - everything has
at least one rip - I mean every thing

Gauges all seem to work

455 engine  .030 over with forged pistons - but about 50K+ miles on 
it.  Stock cam (HP cam available), Headers - not rust through,  
Street dominator intake (broken bolt on water neck -haven't checked 
it out.  Moroso chrome valve covers - dimpled to clear power 
brakes.  Ran OK but I took the carb and spark plug wires - can do 
compression test if you want.

Origional 4-speed car - but no trans

No steering column

3.73 Posi rear - left two black marks the only time I ever drove 
the car.

Also I have a 1978 Grand Prix

Perfect body but needs paint - in primer - no bondo anywhere

Good interior - only driver seat has rips

1979 TA 301 with 252 cam and Ram Air IV oil pump (over kill for 
this motor)  TH200 with less than 10K miles after rebuild.
Engine runs great - super smooth.

Everything must go.  I will part out.  Everything is going for 
first reasonable offer.  Reasonable means cheap.  The goal is to 
get rid of all the stuff - what I can't sell is getting scrapped at 
about $100 a car  MMMV (My milage may very).

I'm try to limit my efforts to my corvette, blazer, and hopefuly a 
'70 Barracuda.  I will trade all this - plus some cash for a 70 
Cuda/Barracuda - I'll even give you some stuff as a finders fee...
$1000 for a 70 cuda?


So what do you think?

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 23:52:08 1993
Subject: Re: Ford motors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6376
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>But now Ford has a 4.2 (?) liter V-8 engine that cranks out over 600 
>horsepower.
>They are using it exclusively in their indy race cars, but what a snag it would
>be if they would only market it.  I, and my checkbook, are awaiting that 
>glorius
>day.

Actually its about 2.7 litres and produces 780 hp on methonal an 14 inches of 
boost.  Power band is like 9000rpm to 13000rpm - not really streetable.  I'd 
much perfer this engine to any 2.7 liter 4 cylinder.  How bout one of those 3.5 
litre formula 1 motors - Yamaha was going to market it in some limited 
production car.  They have pulled out.

Oh yeah - expect $35K for the indy engine and alot more for the F1 engine - 
short block - no extras....

Dirk



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 14 23:58:39 1993
Subject: Re: HEAVY DUTY TRAILERING
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6377
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you wrote:
: I was wondering if anybody out there can help me with a few question?
: I would like to buy a '94 1500 Blazer and use it to tow an enclosed
                                                             ^^^^^^^
: car trailer +car. This would weigh (trailer+car) about 6500-7000 lbs.

You want a longer wheelbase or cross-winds will be difficult.

: I know that there is enough power there to manage that much weight. ie. 210hp.

The peak torque is at 2800 rpm. The peak hp is at 4000 rpm. Funny numbers
for a truck, no? (Peak torque is usually at 1/2 peak hp rpm. I understand
that this is needed so that the engine doesn't lug on upshifts. But I
haven't driven one.)

: But the real question is will the suspension be able to handle that weight?
: The specs. say that the Blazer can tow up to 7000lbs. max. 
: -But what is the max. in reality?

: -What would be the best transmission, manual/automatic? 
:  GM recommends the 4-speed auto. but I would prefer the 5-speed manual.
: -How will either affect towing? and power? and torque?
: There is also the matter about rear axle ratio.  There are two options a 3.42
: and a 3.73 ratio, I believe.  GM recommends the 3.73 for heavy towing. 
: -Is this a wise choice?

It sounds like a marginal solution. I like my 3/4 ton suburban
w/ 6.2l turbo diesel and th400 3 speed auto. (I'm on my 2nd trans
rebuild, but that's just too many full power shifts @ 12 psi boost.)
It stays straight even in a cross-wind. Hopefully, they'll offer
the new turbo diesel in the suburban in '94. Otherwise, the 454
gas disposal unit will do. 

I'm not sure what to say about which trans. I'd prefer the 4E80 auto
over the 4E60 auto (stronger). The auto helps dampen the shock loads
imposed by those full power upshifts. (Maybe your driving style
makes less use of full throttle than mine, so choose accordingly.)

I'd choose a gear to put the engine around  peak torque rpm when the
transmission is in overdrive and the vehicle is at highway cruising
speed. (2800 rpm? Yuk!) Then you can downshift if necessary and be near
peak HP rpm (4000 rpm).  I'm too lazy to do the math, but this would take
more than a 4.56 ratio. If the engine had a more reasonable torque peak,
a 4.10 ratio would suffice. That would put the engine at ~2000 rpm at 
highway speed in overdrive and ~3000 rpm in drive. (You might have to
forget about using overdrive while towing w/ the Blazer. The 3.73 ratio
doen't seem right for the 2800 rpm peak torque unless they assume that
you keep it in drive (3rd). )

If you aren't going to tow long or often, the Blazer might do. But if
you're going to use it primarily for towing, consider gettting something
more capable. I'm sure someone out there will suggest the Dodge w/ the
Cummins turbo diesel. And yes, I understand that Ford sells trucks, too.

: **I also would like to get the whole kit and kabootle so to say with
: heavy duty suspension, shocks, oil/tranny cooler. I also realize that
: the hitch would have to be weight-dist., elec. brakes, and sway bar.
: I have already tried GM's info. line and they just tell me stuff
: that is right in the book in front of me.

Get their towing package, then get a good aftermarket transmission cooler.
(My stock transmission cooler is in the hot side radiator tank. It's
least effective when I need it the most.) 

: Can anybody give me some REAL answers?

Well, this is all from my rapidly fading memory, but I think that it
kind of resembles my highly personalized vision of reality. (Wait a
minute. REAL answers from Usenet?) 

: 	Marty

: ----------
: Posted by: emory!vms.csd.mu.edu!2SS1EBERHARD

----------
Posted by: emory!palm.cray.com!nbrotz (Norb Brotz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 01:40:52 1993
Subject: Re: Hotrod diesel
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6378
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you wrote:

: I wrote:
: >Are oil cooled pistons mandatory? 

: Are they ever not mandatory?  All of the designs I've seen derive
: partial piston cooling from oil which one way or another makes it 
: onto the underside of the piston.  The Cummins has an oil jet directed 
: onto the piston as it descends.  Or did you have some other notion of 
: oil cooling?

That's my understanding of it. I'm wondering if my poor little 6.2l
has oil cooled pistons. I didn't see anything in the shop manual.
If not, I probably should back off on the boost ...

: >I suspect that the biggest problem is the drivetrain. Where does 
: >one find a transmission that can handle 800 ft-lb input torque?

: On any 18 wheeler? (They can take about twice that).
: Actually, one can get Allison automatics, and a whole selection of 
: "normal" (with syncros) transmissions which can take 800 ft-lb.  Your
: local garbage truck is probably running an 800 ft-lb engine using an
: Allison.

I'm on my third TM400 and the 2-3 shift is already going soft. (Full
power shifts on a 6000lb truck are kind of hard on the clutches.)
Lets see here. The exhaust valves are shot, the injection pump is
flakey, and the transmission is on its way out. Any ideas on an
engine/transmission swap? Or is the current combination worth
enhancing? (I plan to replace the truck in a few years anyways, so 
totally destroying it in a year or two wouldn't be a problem.)

: >Norb Brotz 

: Dan Hepner

: ----------
: Posted by: Dan Hepner 

----------
Posted by: emory!palm.cray.com!nbrotz (Norb Brotz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 10:42:53 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6379
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
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----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 12:56:44 1993
Subject: Headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6380
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I would also like to put in my $.02 for Heddmann Hedders (as they spell it. :)
I have a set on my Z28, wrapped in Thermotech Header Wraps, and they have been
perfectly fine for over 2 years now (but I don't drive in the winter.)  People
have told me that they would only last 2 years with the wraps on, but they
still seem strong as ever, and don't have much rust where they show through
at all...  I've seen Mr. Gasket (makers of Blackjack and Cyclone) headers
rot out, but don't have much experience with Hookers yet.  All the Heddmanns
I've seen have lasted a long time though...

-- Steve
stm0@gte.com

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 13:07:13 1993
Subject: Re:  Stuff for sale Pontiac - 76 TA and 78 Grand Prix
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6381
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi there.  I'm trying to reply to Dirk, but my brain-dead mailer won't let me.
So, this message is for Dirk:  Can you get in touch with me about the '76 TA,
I'm interested, but want to know where it is, what's the body like, is it
the black/gold limited edition, etc.  Thanks!!!

-- Steve
stm0@gte.com

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 13:24:28 1993
Subject: Re: Hooker Headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6382
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Anyway, the headers which had been recommended to me, for cost, performance, 
>and ease of installation, were the Hooker Comps.  I'm kind of alarmed to see
>posts come so quickly against them.  More expensive are the Super Competition
>headers from Hooker, but maybe they're just as much trouble.  Anyone have 
>better luck with them or know of a different set which would be better?  I'm 
>pretty new to this game, so any help is much appreciated.  Thanks.
>
>Paul

I've got the cheapo 'Coyote' headers on my chevy 350.  Quality seams ok,
all welds are good.  Installation was easy.

Spark plug #6 in a pain in the a** to remove, the rest are OK.  I was
surprised to find that they seal perfectly.  I have not replaced the
gasket ones in two years.

I have to retorque the fasteners about twice a year, and they have
started to rust.  This winter I will take them out and paint them with
the kind of paint you use on those old cast iron stoves.  I've been told
that this is the only paint that will last.

Markus '75 Camaro


----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 13:36:55 1993
Subject: Re: Hotrod diesel 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6383
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

[Diesel talk deleted]

>Lets see here. The exhaust valves are shot, the injection pump is
>flakey, and the transmission is on its way out. Any ideas on an
>engine/transmission swap? 

     I converted a C30 Dualie pickup from a 6.2 diesel to a 350 gas
motor.   Swap came out fine, as I had a donor truck, but I wish I
hadn't done it.     The loss of torque was pretty noticeable.   
If I had it to do over again, and the truck was worth it, I'd either
build one of those 383 creations, or use a 454.....

    If staying with diesel is the key,  I'd love to see one of the
Cummins motors out of a Dodge pickup go in.    I drove one of those a
few days ago..... 'bout the torquiest truck I've driven lately.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  
            "Hard Acceleration Saves Costly Aggravation"

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 15:43:49 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6384
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Just a short follow-up to John's reponse. I just painted my garage floor
last week. I followed John's recommendation and applied the Sherwin-Williams
2-part system (it's called Tile Clad II btw). I detergent scrubbed the flr
first, and followed that with an acid etch using all the precautions
John has already mentioned. No problems and the stuff is every bit as
good as John said.

I had a little difficulty getting the stuff from the local store. It's
"not for residential use", and the local guy didn't want to sell it
to me. The next dealer down the road had no objections, even sold it at
the contractor price (about $31/gal here). Bottom line, don't let the
retailer  bs you, it's not illegal to sell the stuff. You may also want
to read the full spec. sheet for the paint (they should have it in the
store). It has considerably more technical info. than what is on the
cans.

Thanks for all the help John. This stuff is great!

Regards - Bill
__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stoffel              |  CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC  |                        |
stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Code 859            | Good-bye Alan & Davey  |
(410) 267-3825            |  Annapolis, MD 21402 |                        |
_________________________________________________|________________________|

[Thanks!  Grr, I'm feeling ripped at having been charged $50/gal.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 15:51:36 1993
Subject: My Holley
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6385
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	I have a twofold question about Holleys (or carburetors in
general).

	First off, with the oncoming increase of gas prices, plus the
mandatory use of oxygenated gas here in NJ (which increase gas yet
another $.07 per gallon), I have decided to make my car a bit more
civil (as in not go through a quarter of a tank of gas while idling
at stop lights).

	I have a small bore Holley (465CFM), which was originally
meant to be used on smaller V8's. (Such as 305's). I am using it
on a straight-6 (250), with a 220/220 cam, and I have started
reducing the jet size. The carburetor originally came with Holley
57 jets, and thus far I have worked myself down to 53 jets. How
do I tell when I have reached the optimum jet level, where I run
a bit lean on the higway, but not too lean? (I have a large
accelerator pump and pump cam, so I really don't have acceleration
gas starvation bog).

	Secondly, every now and then I've noticed that gas will
sometimes drip out of the secondary boosters of my carburetor
when the car is parked on a flat surface. (And, yes, it mostly
happens on warm days). This is not a leaky or stuck needle and
seat problem, since I have changed it a few times. Nor is it
an improper float adjustment, because that has also been checked
various times (both dry and then when running). Does anybody
have a way of getting around this problem, since a pool of gas
in the intake manifold sure makes for difficult starting.
(Also, sometimes the primary boosters drip too, but not as
often as the secondaries.)



                                                    Jason

If a straight line fit is required, take only two data points.

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)
(jcborkow@trident.usacs.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 19:37:56 1993
Subject: Re: Hooker Headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6386
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <#7fzqgh@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>Cheap headers rust.  In New England, cheap headers ( when driven all year ) 
>last about two summers.  Good headres are expensive.  Stainless steel is the
>way to go, but it is expensive, and it is expensive.  I have seen good, tri-y
>stainless headers for about $500.  Ouch.  This probably explains the
>popularity of cheap headers.  Buy them, get good stainless steel bolts
>( ARP makes a set ) and consider the headers disposable.  Good fasteners
>will make it easy to remove them in a year or so.

	You're bitching about $500 for good headers for a car?  Try shopping
for motorcycle parts sometime:  The OEM exhaust on my ZX costs nearly $1000.
A *good* aftermarket set would run me well-nigh $600, and it would be more
easily dented and not as quiet as well.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 22:39:07 1993
Subject: engine weights
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6387
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	Dos anyone out there have a list of weights for difrent forms of
small block chevy and ford motors?  Mazda Rotorys would be nice to know to.
Thanks 
Henry

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 22:42:48 1993
Subject: My Holley
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6388
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Jason writes:
> How
>do I tell when I have reached the optimum jet level, where I run
>a bit lean on the higway, but not too lean? (I have a large
>accelerator pump and pump cam, so I really don't have acceleration
>gas starvation bog).

As you begin to get too lean, the first symptom is usually
degraded drivability - it just doesn't respond as well as it
should when you give it some throttle.  If you go leaner than
that, then you will usually get surging while cruising.

An ideal way to make this measurement would be with an oxygen
sensor.  It will tell you if your mixture is rich or lean,
relative to stoichiometric.  I built a contraption which allows
me to monitor the mixture at the tip of the tailpipe; it uses
a heated oxygen sensor and a bit of electronics to condition
the signal from the sensor.  The sensor is mounted in a short
piece of pipe which slips over the tip of the tailpipe and clamps
on.

>	Secondly, every now and then I've noticed that gas will
>sometimes drip out of the secondary boosters of my carburetor
>when the car is parked on a flat surface. (And, yes, it mostly
>happens on warm days). 

I take it that you mean that the car is parked on the level.
It sounds as though you are having a percolation problem - the
gas in the system is warming up and being forced out through
any available opening.  Do you have a thermal barrier between
the carb and the intake manifold?  Is there a heat shield between
the carb and the exhaust?  Is the carburetor properly vented to
the outside world?  Does your fuel line run near anything hot,
such as the exhaust system?  In short, look for any way that heat
can be coupled to the fuel.

Bob Hale         hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 22:48:41 1993
Subject: alt.hotrod
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6389
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)

>If you get alt.hotrod, I urge you to use that venue instead of subscribing
>to the list.  The list membership is approaching 300 which makes things,
>ummm, interesting here.

I'm not sure whose idea this was, but it's brilliant. Being on a higher 
volume mail lists can be a drag.  Most news readers are superior at 
providing "scanning" capability, when and if you like, while those
without net access are still allowed participation. 

Dan Hepner

[ (bows) Thank you!  :-) Actually this is a modification of the scheme
used with comp.dcom.telecom.  I got an amazing amount of resistance from
some quarters when I first implemented it.  Exclusively from people NOT
on the list, of course.  Figures.  Actually I think people were worried
that another Pat Townsend was under construction.  Not to worry!!  There
is still a degree of resistance judging by how many sites sill haven't
marked alt.hotrod moderated.  All that happens is posts from that
machine go out until they hit the first properly configured machine,
whereupon the post is scooped up and mailed here.  Every machine does
that so I get dozens of duplicate posts.  Rather than fighting it, I
just modified my list software to dump the dupes.  My modems still
occasionally tap me on the shoulder to bitch about the traffic but I
just tell 'em to stick to their bit shuffling :-) For anyone interested,
the proper configuration for your news reader is to mark alt.hotrod as
moderated and then put the address "hotrod@dixie.com" in the news
mailpaths (or whatever your file is that points moderated groups to mail
addresses) file.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: Dan Hepner 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 15 22:53:39 1993
Subject: RE:Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6390
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Sorry this posting is a little on the late side, but my NET access is thu the
school only and finding time to read the news......etc.
	ANYWHO....The 'X' on the Chevy heads is indicitive of hardened valve
seats.  These engines where designed to run on BOTH leaded AND unleaded gas.  
	My grandfather bought a '72 Suburban Caryall new.  Since he and Grams
belong to a couple of those Trailer clubs (good sam, starcraft) he made sure he
had it properly equipt.  It had/has the 350 with the 'X' heads(standard on ALL 
'72's it would seem,{the 'X' heads that is}), 4 spd. tranny w/     1rst gear,
                                                               LOW
for climbing verticlal surfaces and pulling stumps, a high 'high-way' rear(not
possi) and a 4bbl. Rochester. He gave it to my dad in '85.  It now has 298,000+
 miles and is JUST NOW starting to use oil.  The body however........lets just
say our new tig welder was a GOOD idea.
	                               
BTW, if any one has a '70 eldorado w/ the correct engine, CHEAP, in north east 
Mass, N.H., etc. area write me!! body/trans doesn't matter.  I also need a T400
trany for '68-'76 rwd Caddies.     Thanx in advance,
						Kilroy

----------
Posted by: emory!aspen.uml.edu!milliganc
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 16 16:08:48 1993
Subject: Re: fountain of oil / Hooker headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6391
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List wrote:
> 
> -> Did you know there's a paint called Kilz that will cover even soaked
> -> in oil on sheetrock?  Got to paint a whole wall.  JGD]

It's up there on my list with epoxy plumber's putty, WD40, and air. 
The stuff smells like a concentrated Elmer's Glue to me.  If you go
back over for a 2nd coat before it's completely dry, you'll never
get the roller off the wall :-)

[And that's the water-based version!  Try the solvent-based one sometime.
>From my fire, there is over 200 gallons of this stuff sprayed on the 
joists and walls that didn't actually burn.  The construction crew first
pressure washed and chemical treated the surfaces to kill the smoke
odor and then fired away with the Kilz.  Absolutely amazing.   Everything
was covered - smoke, soot, tar, oil and so on.  One wall had a shelf 
full of oil cans near the ceiling.  The cans exploded from the heat
and the oil went everywhere.  Kilz covered it without a sign.  Two years
later is is still white without a shadow of seepage.  My shop is now so 
bright from everything being that screaming, blinding titanium white
that it almost hurts the eyes.  I love it!  JGD]
----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 16 16:21:06 1993
Subject: more header comments
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6392
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have had a set of headers on my El Camino since 1975 that are not rusted
at all, don't leak and still look good. I am not sure if they are even made
anymore. Gold Eagle headers. If I remember right, they are 14 ga. and coated
with some sort of gold stuff that still is gold. The gaskets are 7 years old
and the collectors gaskets are original with no leaks. The only bad thing I
can say about them is that plug changes are a b*tch to say the least.

Hows that for long lasting headers?

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 16 16:25:50 1993
Subject: Re: engine weights
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6393
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Wed, 15 Sep 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> 	Dos anyone out there have a list of weights for difrent forms of
> small block chevy and ford motors?  Mazda Rotorys would be nice to know to.

I'd like to know how I could get a hold of a mazda rotary, and how much it
would cost...


<%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%>
   I hate the rain too sometimes, but hell, if it didn't fall we would.                           --- H. Clark





----------
Posted by: "[ Pearl Jam ]..............................................." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 16 18:37:48 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6394
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



In article <-xgz-ma@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>Just a short follow-up to John's reponse. I just painted my garage floor
>last week. I followed John's recommendation and applied the Sherwin-Williams
>2-part system (it's called Tile Clad II btw). I detergent scrubbed the flr
>first, and followed that with an acid etch using all the precautions
>John has already mentioned. No problems and the stuff is every bit as
>good as John said.

O.K. you guys.  I was about to seal my garage floor with an industrial
warehouse curing agent/sealer that has a 5 year dustless warranty. 

The reason I stayed away from the paints is that alot of the responses I got
to my request for advice on cement floor treatments a few weeks ago said
that the epoxy and latex paints:

  1) Are VERY slippery and dangerous when wet,

[Heck, they are slippery when DRY.  I consider that a major attribute.
Personal choice, of course but I'd rather the floor be real slick and
have to pay attention when it is wet rather than being rough but requiring
great effort to move anything about.  JGD]

  2) tend to scar and peel under high local pressure such as floor jack 
metal wheels and jack stands.

[No.  Jackstands don't even scar it.  I have dug an oil plug into 
the paint while sliding an engine across the floor.  It brought up
a little curly-q of paint but it did not break through to the cement
and did not flake.  JGD]

I'd like to know whether the Sherwin-Williams 2-part Tile Clad II paint has
these attributes.  I was getting ready to put the stuff down this weekend 
but I'm now considering the Sherwin-Williams stuff now.

Thanks,
|////////////////////////////////////////////////|
| Pete Paraska       (paraska@oasys.dt.navy.mil) |
| David Taylor Model Basin, CARDEROCKDIV         |
|\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\|

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!paraska (Pete Paraska)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 16 18:46:50 1993
Subject: Re: Headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6395
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> 
> I would also like to put in my $.02 for Heddmann Hedders (as they spell it. :)
> I have a set on my Z28, wrapped in Thermotech Header Wraps, and they have been
> perfectly fine for over 2 years now (but I don't drive in the winter.)

The Heddmann headers I have for my '85 Mustang 5.0 were pretty lousy.  The
price was right though, they're only $90.  The drivers side collector exited
directly into the chassis.  It was necessary to heat all 4 primaries and bend
them as unit.   I later learned that all of that model header have that 
problem.  The installer I spoke with did them often and he said they didn't
even bother heating them anymore - they just use a big pipe to bend them. 

For the price, they weren't too bad.  Overall the quality was pretty lousy.


  Brian

---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com

----------
Posted by: emory!pms706.pms.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 16 19:06:07 1993
Subject: Cheap O2 Sensor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6396
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

He said he had 'fabricated' I beleive his own mixture sensor that slipped in
the tailpipe. HOW'D HE MAKE IT???
I'm not an electronics wiz, but I know I can do the simple pc circuits and stuf
f. And have a few O2 sensors laying around from the exhaust manifolds of 
the injected mazda rotary engines. They are the type with one wire coming off 
them. Now I've seen the one's you can buy from out of the magazines, like turbo 
and the like, but either they are a bit expensive for me, or they look 
reasonable and the resolution seems poor. And how are they on real time 
measuremments anyway? I've had little experience with them, but plenty trying to 
get my mazda dialed in with a holley 550 vac sec.
So anyone with any info on how to build a simple one, please let me know.
I'd wager I'm not the only one who would like to have one..
Thanks..
Lance Ferry...lpf6158@zeus.tamu.edu 

----------
Posted by: emory!rigel.tamu.edu!lpf6158 (FERRY, LANCE PATRICK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 16 19:12:11 1993
Subject: RE:Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6397
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a complete Caddy drive train of the type you need.  It is located
in Tewksbury, MA.  The T400 has already been rebuilt and shift-kitted.

Call for details.

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 16 19:17:49 1993
Subject: Re: My Dear Holley
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6398
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In my last message I wrote about my Holley carburetor, I wasn't
as clear as I meant to be:

>>	Secondly, every now and then I've noticed that gas will
>>sometimes drip out of the secondary boosters of my carburetor
>>when the car is parked on a flat surface. (And, yes, it mostly
>>happens on warm days). 

And Bob Hale responded:

>I take it that you mean that the car is parked on the level.
>It sounds as though you are having a percolation problem - the
>gas in the system is warming up and being forced out through
>any available opening.  Do you have a thermal barrier between
>the carb and the intake manifold?  Is there a heat shield between
>the carb and the exhaust?  Is the carburetor properly vented to
>the outside world?  Does your fuel line run near anything hot,
>such as the exhaust system?  In short, look for any way that heat
>can be coupled to the fuel.

	What I really meant, but didn't explain well, is the car
is parked, ignition is off, and I come back a few hours later,
and the secondary boosters are happily dripping gasoline into
the intake manifold. Most of the time this happens when the
temperature is above 85 degrees. And, as I said before, this is
not a stuck needle and seat, nor a problem of misadjusted float
level. I would really like to find a way to avoid this, since
starting the car after having a pool of gas collect in the engine
is really very difficult.



                                                    Jason

Overdrawn?!? But I still have checks left!

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)
(jcborkow@trident.usacs.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 16 19:22:38 1993
Subject: Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6399
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	All of you guys bitching about changing spark plugs with custom
headers got me to wondering:  is there any American V8 set up with the plugs
in the center of the heads, as is commonly done with multivalve motorcycles?

	For example, the valve cover on my ZX has four holes in it.  A rubber
doughnut about 1/2" long along its axis fits under each hole between the
valve cover and the head, so that the valve cover/dougnut/head form a tunnel
down to the plug.  The spark plug caps have shields on them that snap over the
end of each tunnel to keep water and dirt out.

	It seems to me that this would be the hot setup for downright easy
plug changes on a V8.

	On the ZX, however, I have to pull the sidecovers, passenger grab
rail, luggage hooks, gas tank, and air box to get to the spark plugs.  A
PITA, but you always pay for performance in one way or another.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 11:07:50 1993
Subject: engine weights
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6400
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Dos anyone out there have a list of weights for difrent forms of
-> small block chevy and ford motors?  Mazda Rotorys would be nice to
-> know to.

 Jeez, maybe I ought to do a FAQ.  

  Here you go:

engine weights:         (don't know where the data came from)
weights in parentheses are conflicting

Alfasud flat-4          240
Audi 5                  364
Audi 2.0 L4             335
Audi 80 1300            230
Audi 100 1500           240
AMC V8                  540  (600)
AMC 6                   500

BMW 4.5L V12            607
BMW M52 3.3,3.5 Big Six 500
BL "O" L4               298
BL "B" L4               335
BL "E" 6                345
Buick 430-455 V8        600  (640)
Buick 350               450
BMW M60 Small Six       388
Buick V6                375
Buick/Rover 215 V8      318
BMW slant-6 turbodiesel 430
Buick 3.0 V6 '85-up     350

Chevy V6-90 229         425
Chevy V6-60 2.8         350
Chevy small block V8    575
Chevy big block V7      685
Chevy L6 194-250        440
Chevy Vega L4           285
Chevy Corvair flat 6    300
Chevy II 153 L4         350
Cadillac V8 472-500     625
Chevy V8 348/409        640
Citroen 2.0 Douvrin 4   263
Chevy "J" 1.8-2.0 pushrod 302

Ford Y block            625
Ford BOSS 429           680
Ford 2.0 Lima/Pinto     418
Ford England Essex V4   327
Ford Germany Taunus V4  205     (and SAAB V4)
Ford flathead V8        525
Ford 170-250 L6         385
Ford FE big block       650
Ford 429/460 V8         640
Ford England Essex V6   379
Ford 289/302 V8         460
Ford Germany 2.6-2.8 V6 305
Ford BOSS 302           500
Ford 351 Cleveland      550
FIAT/Ferrari Dino V6    300
Ford 3.8 V6-90          351

Isuzu 1.8 Diesel  L4    384
Isuzu 1.8 gas L4        311

Jaguar V12              680

Mercedes SOHC V8 alum.  452
Mercedes SOHC V8 iron   540
Mopar Slant Six         475
Mopar 273-340 "A" V8    525
Mopar 360 "A"           550
Mopar 361-383-400 V8    620
Mopar 413-426W-440 V8   670
Mopar Street Hemi       765     (690 bare)

Nissan CA20 FWD         269     belt cam
Nissan Z20 NAPS-Z 2.0   346     RWD chain cam

Olds 215 V8             318
Olds 330 J2             700     (first generation V8)
Olds 400-455            620     high deck
Olds 330-400            560     low deck
Olds 260 V8             ---
Olds 260 Diesel         ---
Olds 350 Diesel         ---
Olds 260-403            ---     '86-up lightweight design

Peugeot 104 1400        260     includes transaxle
Porsche 4.7 SOHC V8     574
Pontiac SOHC 6          450
Pontiac L4              350     Iron Duke, Tech IV
Pontiac Tempest slant 4 470
Pontiac 389 V8          650
Peugeot 204 Diesel      272
Peugeot Douvrin 2.0 4   263

Renault 2.0 4 Douvrin   263
Rover 3500 V8           318
Rambler 327 V8          600
Renault 2.8 V6          375

SAAB V4-60              206     also Taunus
SAAB slant-4            290
Studebaker 289          650

Triumph slant-4         290
Triumph Stag V8         446

VW flat-4               200
                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 11:14:19 1993
Subject: RE:Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6401
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> ANYWHO....The 'X' on the Chevy heads is indicitive of hardened valve
-> seats.  These engines where designed to run on BOTH leaded AND
-> unleaded gas.

 Uh... it's just a foundry mark.  I have the enormous X on a pair of '72
307 heads which predate unleaded gas, and on a set of '56 265 heads.

 Chevy identifies heads by the part number, which isn't on the head and
so does you little good, and by the casting number, which is only so-so.
For a given casting, such as a 461 or 186, you can find various
combustion chamber sizes and shapes and visibly different port
configurations.  Some of the three and four digit casting marks
scattered around on the head probably identify which cores were used,
but I've never seen a chart.  I *have* seen enough bullshit on Chevy
head ID to require the use of hip waders when reading magazine articles.

 Even if you did have the original Chevy part number, it doesn't do you
a whole lot of good.  Chevy has a nasty habit of replacing exhausted
inventories with lowball parts.  For example, if you order a 327/350hp
head, you'd expect a 461 casting or something similar.  What you will
get is the later 350/300 head, with chambers over 10cc larger and
totally different ports.  For the SAME part number!

 No wonder everyone just buys a pair of Dart heads nowadays.
                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 11:19:41 1993
Subject: Re:  Stuff for sale Pontiac - 76 TA and 78 Grand Prix
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6402
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



>Hi there.  I'm trying to reply to Dirk, but my brain-dead mailer won't 
>let me.
>So, this message is for Dirk:  Can you get in touch with me about the 
>'76 TA,
>I'm interested, but want to know where it is, what's the body like, is 
>it
>the black/gold limited edition, etc.  Thanks!!!
>

The TA is a blue with black interior.  No T-tops. It has a good hood 
and scoop and the rear wing / taillights are in good condition.  Just 
about everything else needs work (at least one ding).  Floor board rust 
and holes but none in the trunk area.  The front end was damaged and 
the front frame was bent.  For this reason I think it would make a 
better parts car.  I know you can pick up a good 74-76 firebird for 
less than 1000.  Swapping parts would leave you with a perfect TA.  As 
far as value goes I don't think there's all that much.  Yes its a 454 / 
4-speed car.  I think it came with a T10 - I could give you a Muncie 
M20 without a shifter if you really want.  All the things that make 
differeciat the TA from another firebird is still there!  I personally 
have other projects (way too many other projects BTW) and 7 cars in my 
lot.  I got to sell / get rid of them ASAP.

BTW the car is in Maryland and if it's just a little too far away let 
me know.  I'm willing to deal and make it worth while.

Dirk


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 14:39:48 1993
Subject: RE: My Holley
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6403
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>	First off, with the oncoming increase of gas prices, plus the
>mandatory use of oxygenated gas here in NJ (which increase gas yet
>another $.07 per gallon), I have decided to make my car a bit more
>civil (as in not go through a quarter of a tank of gas while idling
>at stop lights).

Keep going leaner until you loose power.  Timed acceloration runs (like 
50 - 80mph without shifting gears would give you a pretty good idea.  
Use a stop watch - and the same stretch of road.  Going beyond this 
could get tricky.  You can increase the power valve richness by 
drilling out power valve channel restrictors - and put even smaller 
jets in but you begin to push the envelope.  The results could be high 
combustion temperatures and pinging.  If you drill to large you can be 
overrich (loss of power) during WOT acceloration.  Lots of variables.  
With out an accurate way of determining mixture I'd stay away from 
major modifications.


>	I have a small bore Holley (465CFM), which was originally
>meant to be used on smaller V8's. (Such as 305's). I am using it
>on a straight-6 (250), with a 220/220 cam, and I have started
>reducing the jet size. The carburetor originally came with Holley
>57 jets, and thus far I have worked myself down to 53 jets. How
>do I tell when I have reached the optimum jet level, where I run
>a bit lean on the higway, but not too lean? (I have a large
>accelerator pump and pump cam, so I really don't have acceleration
>gas starvation bog).

On a 4-barrel you can stagger the jets one or two numbers - meaning 
slightly lean on the primaries and slightly larger on the secondaries.

>	Secondly, every now and then I've noticed that gas will
>sometimes drip out of the secondary boosters of my carburetor
>when the car is parked on a flat surface. (And, yes, it mostly
>happens on warm days). This is not a leaky or stuck needle and
>seat problem, since I have changed it a few times. Nor is it
>an improper float adjustment, because that has also been checked
>various times (both dry and then when running). Does anybody
>have a way of getting around this problem, since a pool of gas
>in the intake manifold sure makes for difficult starting.
>(Also, sometimes the primary boosters drip too, but not as
>often as the secondaries.)

Heat sheild between the intake and the carb will prevent or help 
prevent boil over.  

Good Luck - post your tuning results or cc them to me, please

Dirk


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 14:51:11 1993
Subject: Re:  Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6404
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-> 
-> 	All of you guys bitching about changing spark plugs with custom
-> headers got me to wondering:  is there any American V8 set up with the plugs
-> in the center of the heads, as is commonly done with multivalve motorcycles?

Yes, get hold of any Chrysler engine with the hemi heads.
George Kulp

[rest deleted]

----------
Posted by: emory!VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 14:58:00 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-35*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6405
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

IOGP POWERBOATS, BAY CITY (T)         9/17     1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
Motoworld                             9/17     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (T)             9/17     7:00-10:00PM     HTS*
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (T)             9/18     1:00-4:00AM      HTS*
SpeedWeek                             9/18     6:30-7:00AM      ESPN
World Of Speed & Beauty (Rusty Wallace9/18     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (fuel tank leaks)  9/18     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (L)                   9/18     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                     9/18     2:00-2:30PM      DISC
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/18     4:00-4:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/18     4:30-5:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek '93                         9/18     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
IOGP POWERBOATS, PITTSBURG (T)        9/18     5:00-5:30PM      TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (Rusty Wallace9/18     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/18     6:00-6:30PM      TNN
MotorWeek                             9/19     2:00-2:30AM      WGN
Motoworld                             9/19     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/19     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/19     9:00-9:30AM      MTV
Trucks And Tractor Power              9/19     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Dave Shultz)                 9/19     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/19     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/19     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           9/19    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                9/19     12:00-4:30PM     TNN
INDYCAR, NAZARETH (L)                 9/19     1:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Winners (Dave Shultz)                 9/19     4:30-5:00PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, NAZARETH (T)              9/19     5:00PM           TSN
Shadetree Mechanic (fuel tank leaks)  9/19     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/19     7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/19     8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           9/19     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      9/19     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
NHRA, US NATIONALS, INDIANAPOLIS (T)  9/19    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
Trucks And Tractor Power              9/19    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/19    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/20     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (Mel Kenyon)  9/20     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/20     7:30-8:00PM      MTV
Motor Sports Hour                     9/21     1:00-2:00AM      HTS*
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/21     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
The Great American Race               9/21     1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/22     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
INDYCAR, NAZARETH (T)                 9/22     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
IOGP POWERBOATS, ATLANTIC CITY (T)    9/23     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/23     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IOGP POWERBOATS, SOUTH BEND (T)       9/23     1:30-2:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/23     3:30-4:00AM      MTV
NHRA, US NATIONALS, INDIANAPOLIS (T)  9/23     12:00-1:00PM     HTS*
Cycle World                           9/23     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     9/23     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
IOGP POWERBOATS, SOUTH BEND (T)       9/23     2:30-3:30PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Mid-Ohio)   9/23     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
MotorWeek '93 (T-bird V8)             9/23     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           9/23     8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     9/23     9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                9/23     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (L)    9/23    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
SpeedWeek                             9/24     12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, MINERAL SPRINGS(T)9/24     1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/24     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IHRA WORLD NATIONALS, NORWALK (T)     9/24     3:30-4:30AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             9/24     6:00-6:30PM      ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (L)      9/26     8:50-11:00AM     TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, MARTINSVILLE (L)         9/26     12:40PM          ESPN
NASCAR LATE MODEL, MARTINSVILLE (T)   9/26     9:30PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (SD)     9/26    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (T)      9/27     9:00-11:00PM     ESPN
BUSCH GN, ROUGEMONT (?)               10/02    TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, N. WILKESBORO (L)        10/03    1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/03    9:00-11:00PM  ESPN,TSN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/03   11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
NASCAR LATE MODEL, N. WILKESBORO (T)  10/04    9:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, LAGUNA SECA (T)           10/04    9:30PM           TSN
NHRA, KEYSTONE NATIONALS, READING (T) 10/05    10:30PM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, ELKART LAKE (T)        10/07    12:00AM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (?)               10/09    TBA              TBA
Formula Atlantic Season Summary       10/09    2:30-4:30PM      TSN
WINSTON CUP, CHARLOTTE (L)            10/10    1:00PM           TBS
IMSA GTP, PHOENIX (SD)                10/10    8:30PM           ESPN
NHRA NATIONALS, TOPEKA (T)            10/12    10:00PM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (?)            10/17    TBA              TBA
Hydroplane Racing, San Diego (T)      10/17    1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
NHRA NATIONALS, DALLAS (T)            10/17    10:00PM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, MID-OHIO (T)           10/19    7:30PM           ESPN
IHRA NATIONALS, EPPING (T)            10/19    10:30PM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, ROCKINGHAM (?)              10/23    TBA              TBA
FORMULA 1, SUZUKA, JAPAN (L)          10/23  11:50PM-2:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, ROCKINGHAM (L)           10/24    12:00PM          TNN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out RDS which broadcasts each race live. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim 
Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     ASN                Arizona                         Ben Loosli
     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
     PSN                Portland                       Mike Butts
  SportsChannel      San Francisco                     Chuck Fry
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 17:44:44 1993
Subject: Re: fountain of oil / Hooker headers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6406
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


#My shop is now so 
#bright from everything being that screaming, blinding titanium white
#that it almost hurts the eyes.  I love it!  JGD]


Yeah.. We did the same thing in my 6 car garage... Painted whatever didn't move
white (minus the red craftsman toolboxes), which includes the ceilings, walls, 
floor, cabinets and shelves. 

We also installed 8' H.O. flourescent lights 6' apart. (a total of 32 8' 
lightbulbs)It gets brighter than OUTSIDE on a sunny day. Only time we need a 
droplight is when we drop a bolt under the hood and it doesn't hit the floor. 

The electric company loves us... That, and all my friends stop by when the 
lights are on...

Just goes to show, a lot of paint and a "little" light can go a long way...

-dan a.

[Same here on the lights.  I got cheap and didn't do high efficiency
ballasts and am paying for it now.  My shop lights draw over a kilowatt
when on.  Arggggg.  

BTW, reminds me.  I have come into a quantity of
metal-halide recessed ceiling lighting fixtures that I'll be announcing
on the net shortly.  Thought I'd give the list a first shot.  These
are "half fixtures" (fill half a suspended ceiling tile) and need about
2 feet of vertical clearance.  The bulb is 175 watt and emits about the
same light as a 250 watt mercury vapor lamp.  The light is white (these
are not sodium vapor lamps) and they warm up in under a minute.  The 
ballast will accept either 120 volts or 208/240.  This fixture is about
$200 out of Graingers.  My price: $40 plus shipping.  Shipping could
be significant because they are fairly large.  I think UPS will take them.
4 or 6 of these would light a large shop, given a high enough ceiling.
If you're interested, contact me at jgd@dixie.com  JGD]

----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 17:56:19 1993
Subject: turbocharger for \6
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6407
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Can anyone point me in the right direction to find out about the
availability of a turbo kit that has been designed to work with a slant
six mopar engine?   Someone in the past year has reported seeing such an
engine at a car show.  What are some good books about turbo conversions?
tom root

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 18:09:35 1993
Subject: RE:Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6408
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Dave Williams writes:
> Uh... it's just a foundry mark.  I have the enormous X on a pair of '72
>07 heads which predate unleaded gas, and on a set of '56 265 heads.

In 1972, Chevy was producing engines which were supposed to be OK
to run on unleaded gas.  I had one of these.  When you turned it
off it would diesel on unleaded but not on regular.

The valve seats were Stellite and the compression ratio was 8.5.
Also, it had a crummy cam that wouldn't idle unless the engine had
been warmed up for at least one minute.

Bob Hale               hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 18:17:37 1993
Subject: unleaded heads
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6409
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I can't give you a specific source of this information, but I'm pretty sure
that Chevy and Ford (I think) started "induction hardening" the valve seats
of their  production heads in the early seventies, in anticipation of the
unleaded fuels to come.  I think 70 may have been the last year for the
non-induction-hardened valve seats, then the started phasing in the hardened
valve seats.  I'm pretty sure most '72 heads came with the hardened seats.
The switchover also comes at about the same time that all the compression
ratios started to drop into the toilet.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 18:22:50 1993
Subject: Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6410
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

    Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1993 19:10 EDT
    From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)

	    All of you guys bitching about changing spark plugs with custom
    headers got me to wondering:  is there any American V8 set up with the plugs
    in the center of the heads, as is commonly done with multivalve motorcycles?

	...
    Later,
    -- 
    Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike

There's at least one ...  so obvious that I'm surprised I can even get a
word in.
The Classic, Legendary, the stuff-of-dreams, yes fokes, the ever popular
   Hemi

OK, trick math question:  
  Q. Whats the difference between Semi & Hemi?
  A. Well, one's good for hauling horses.

  bruce
  miller@cam.nist.gov
  

----------
Posted by: Bruce R. Miller 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 18:28:15 1993
Subject: Oxygen sensors and DIY instrumentation
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6411
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Okay, it seems like I have stirred the pot and people are wanting to
hear about my tailpipe oxygen sensor setup so here goes.

First, some caveats: you must not use any silicone (RTV rubber)
in the engine or on the car because just a whiff of it will plug
up the sensor and render it useless.  You should not use leaded
gas with the sensor because it will slowly plug up the sensor and
give you erroneous readings.  If your vehicle is equipped with a
catalytic converter then the readings at the tailpipe are meaningless
(you could install the sensor before the cat if you want to get
meaningful readings).  If your vehicle has an air pump that dumps
into the exhaust ports then you must either disconnect or disable
the air pump while you are making measurements.

A bit about oxygen sensors: they are an electrochemical device
which attempts to react oxygen from the air with vapors in the
exhaust.  A voltage is developed by this reaction, and the amount
of the voltage is a function of how much fuel/oxygen is in the
exhaust.  Unfortunately, the range of air-fuel ratios which the
sensor responds to is very small; I have heard that it is only
about +- 0.5 AFR units (John?).  Since nominal AFR at stoichiometric
conditions is 14.7, this gives only a tiny range around stoich
that the sensor can measure.  An engine generally needs an AFR
of about 12.5 to develop maximum power and this is well beyond
the ability of the inexpensive oxygen sensors to measure accurately.

Because the oxygen sensor uses fresh air to react with the exhaust
gas, it MUST be mounted where it will see exhaust-free air on the
side of the sensor where the wires enter.

The sensor must be hot for the chemical reaction to occur.  Most
OEM sensors are mounted in the exhaust manifold a few inches away
from the exhaust ports where the exhaust is still very hot; this
provides heat for the sensor and enables the reaction.  Some sensors
have their own booster heaters built in; this allows the sensor to
become usable in a few seconds after the heater is powered up versus
a much longer time if it is heated only by the exhaust gas.  This
helps the manufacturer meet emissions specs because the amount of
time when the system is operating open loop can be greatly reduced.
This is also a benefit to us because we can buy inexpensive sensors
which can be used anywhere in the exhaust system, even at the tailpipe.
I used the cheapest heated sensor that the local Pep Boys had - I
believe that it was a Borg Warner OS-109.

The sensor can actually be operated in two different modes - constant
voltage and variable voltage.  The variable voltage mode was alluded
to earlier; it is the simplest mode.  You connect a high impedance
voltmeter to the sensor's output and read the voltage which varies from
essentially 0 to about 1.0 when the sensor is saturated rich.  The
constant voltage mode requires impressing a constant 0.5 volts onto
the sensor and measuring the current which flows.  This current is
a function of the rate and direction of the chemical reaction which
is occurring in the sensor; one polarity means that the mixture is
rich and the other polarity means that the mixture is lean.  At
stoich mixture the current is 0.

The system that I built is in two pieces - the sensor piece and
the electronics box.  I have a cable which is about 20 feet long
connecting the two so that I can locate the electronics box anywhere
I want (in the engine compartment, on the dashboard, etc.) while the
sensor is installed over either tailpipe.

The sensor is mounted in the side of a piece of scrap tailpipe which
is about a foot long.  This slips over the real tailpipe and clamps on.

The electronics box contains three op amps and some related circuitry.
There's nothing fancy or tricky in it - anyone with basic instrumentation
experience can roll his own electronics.  I used a 0-1 ma meter for
my readout device because I found one cheap at a local surplus store.
I converted the meter to a voltmeter by putting a resistor in series
with it.

Be careful about ground loops.  The sensor operates between ground
(its mounting threads) and a wire.  Your instrumentation must also
operate between the sensor's ground and the wire.  The sensor's
ground is connected to the tailpipe which is connected to the engine.
The high current that flows through the starter and the engine
can cause significant voltage drops between various parts of the
body/engine/exhaust system and the voltage drop might be sufficient
to divert lots of current through your instrumentation.  Again,
anyone with instrumentation experience will understand this problem
and can design around it.

The results: I can see individual exhaust pulses from each cylinder
when the engine is idling.  The sensor is very fast, on the order
of milliseconds, in response time.  While driving I can see the
AFR changing as throttle position changes and as gears change, but
as noted above the sensor saturates under power (rich) conditions
and doesn't tell me how rich.  I can use a scope on the meter output
and trigger the scope from a cylinder so that I can see the reading
for each cylinder.  I don't have a Scopemeter (yet) so I have to do
this while parked; in any event, you can't distinguish the exhaust
pulses at cruising RPM because the muffler smooths them together.

Bob Hale           hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 18:35:09 1993
Subject: Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6412
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> All of you guys bitching about changing spark plugs with custom
-> headers got me to wondering:  is there any American V8 set up with
-> the plugs in the center of the heads, as is commonly done with
-> multivalve motorcycles?

 Ain't you never seen no Chrysler Hemi?  


 Some truck motors used to place the spark plugs one the intake manifold
side instead of the exhaust side, which makes them *much* easier to get
to.
         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 18:39:59 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6413
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I was wondering if anyone could tell me the years of production for the
porsche 914...
I hope to put an AMERICAN motor in the car...
*grin*
and smoke some people =)

<%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%>
   I hate the rain too sometimes, but hell, if it didn't fall we would.                           --- H. Clark





----------
Posted by: "[ Pearl Jam ]..............................................." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 18:44:26 1993
Subject: Bought one!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6414
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Well, I finally found one. 

After looking for the better part of a year, at more than twenty cars,
I located a new cruiser.  My goal was to find a sharp car in my price range
($2K and a possible trade on my '84 D50 pickup).

I wanted a full size hardtop from the years 1958-64, V8 and automatic. 
I was willing to do body work or interior work or mechanical, but not 
all three (I learned my lesson with the '58 Belair!)

And on Monday I finally put my money down on a new old car.
It's a 1963 1/2 Ford Galaxie 500 fastback which I have been eyeing since 
June.  Two door ("Tudor" in Fordspeak) hardtop, 289 V8 and Cruise-O-Matic, 
82K original miles.

It has new tires, seat covers and rug. White exterior, red interior. Straight
rust-free body.  Other than slightly rusty bumpers and a possible leak in one 
wheel cylinder, it's in really good shape.  It is my new daily driver. 
No more garage queens.

Last cruise night of the season is tomorrow!
--
Dave Tartaglia    indy@immacc.prepnet.com             === ZZ-|O\- .. _   
                                         VAROOOOM!......=(_)-=======(_)===

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 17 18:49:28 1993
Subject: Ford Cop Car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6415
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I just bought a '77 Ford LTD cop car for $250.00.  It's got a 460, and
4-wheel disc brakes.  It has 220,000 miles on it (maybe 320,000) but it still
runs.  I think I'll probably part it out and use pieces of it for some future
hotrod.  The Ford 9" rear with disc brakes sounds like the perfect rear for
whatever I might build in the future (except that it'll probably need some
major narrowing).

To help me decide what I should do with the engine (sell it or keep it), does
anyone know:

	How much the engine or engine/tranny combo weighs?

	What kind of compression ratio would I get with flat-top pistons?

	Is the cop-engine likely to be something special, or a run of the
mill land barge special?

I've only had the car for about 12 hours, so I haven't had much time to
tinker with it.  It was fun playing with the spotlight, flashing flip-flop
high beams, and the ticket-writing lamp :)

I noticed that the brakes were fantastic for such a monster car.  They could
stop on a dime.  

The engine felt like it was being choked to death when you stepped on it --
probably due to a super loose timing chain, a clogged up exhaust system, and
a nightmare of screwed up smog control paraphernalia.  I'm pretty sure the
catalytic convertor must be all clogged up because a bunch of exhaust
manifold gaskets had been blown completely out.  In the dark you could see
tiny blue flames shooting out through the gaps.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 18 12:26:59 1993
Subject: RE: Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6416
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>-> All of you guys bitching about changing spark plugs with custom
>-> headers got me to wondering:  is there any American V8 set up with
>-> the plugs in the center of the heads, as is commonly done with
>-> multivalve motorcycles?
>
> Ain't you never seen no Chrysler Hemi?  

Pontiacs also have easy to change spark plugs.  At the cost of real 
pain-in-the-... headers / exhaust ports.  Rather than dumping the exhaust above 
the spark plugs the Ponch motor has a cast exhaust passage than dumps the 
exhaust right above the frame on the older A-Bodies.  This requires an 
immediate turn by every header I've seen - not to mention the headers having to 
cover at least one bolt.  I dread Poncho headers.

Dirk


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 18 12:38:29 1993
Subject: Re: Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6417
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , you write...
>	All of you guys bitching about changing spark plugs with custom
>headers got me to wondering:  is there any American V8 set up with the plugs
>in the center of the heads, as is commonly done with multivalve motorcycles?

Two that I can think of are:  Chyrsler's 426 Hemi, and Ford's BOSS 429.

Also, the new Ford 4.6L DOHC engine (presntly available only in the Mark VIII
but rumored to be available soon in the next generation Mustang, and hopefully
over-the-counter as an SVO engine) and Cadillac's 4.6L DOHC "Northstar"
engines have plugs in the centers of the heads.  Good luck geting one, though,
since they're either old & rare, new & rare, and definitely expensive.
> 
>	For example, the valve cover on my ZX has four holes in it.  A rubber
>doughnut about 1/2" long along its axis fits under each hole between the
>valve cover and the head, so that the valve cover/dougnut/head form a tunnel
>down to the plug.  The spark plug caps have shields on them that snap over the
>end of each tunnel to keep water and dirt out.

Sounds like the hemi's.  You can also build an SVO 460 Ford engine with hemi
heads, but it'll cost you about $10,000.  I hear you can now buy the 
Chrysler 426 Hemi over-the-counter, in aluminum block form, probably for 
$10,000 also.  If I only had money...
> 
>	It seems to me that this would be the hot setup for downright easy
>plug changes on a V8.

And getting lots 'o power, as a side benefit :-)
> 
>	On the ZX, however, I have to pull the sidecovers, passenger grab
>rail, luggage hooks, gas tank, and air box to get to the spark plugs.  A
>PITA, but you always pay for performance in one way or another.
> 
>Later,
>-- 
>Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
>behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
>Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
>agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.
> 
>----------
>Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)

Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"
 
						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!ARIEL.LERC.NASA.GOV!EDWLT12
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 18 12:43:36 1993
Subject: Re:914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6418
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> I was wondering if anyone could tell me the years of production for the
> porsche 914...
> I hope to put an AMERICAN motor in the car...
> *grin*
> and smoke some people =)

'70-76

	Why don't you get a fiero and put a american moter in an anerican car?
Henry

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 11:36:20 1993
Subject: RE:Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6419
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> In 1972, Chevy was producing engines which were supposed to be OK to
-> run on unleaded gas.  I had one of these.  When you turned it off it
-> would diesel on unleaded but not on regular.

 Where could you buy unleaded gas in 1972, Bob?  I remember being able
to buy "white" gas in some places in 1968, which was unleaded, but
nobody used it as a vehicle fuel - it was for gasoline torches and the
like. (hey, if anyone knows where I can buy one of those, clue me in.
Here in AR nobody has ever heard of them)  Unleaded didn't hit the pumps
here until mid'74.


-> The valve seats were Stellite and the compression ratio was 8.5.

 I've never seen any GM documentation indicating any production
Chevrolet V8 with iron heads *ever* came with Stellite seats.
Chevrolet claimed the seats on some engines were "induction hardened",
which according to my metallurgy texts is basically meaningless when
applied to cast iron.

 I've heard many, many people talk about Chevy heads with inserted
seats, but I've handled a LOT of Chevy heads and have never seen one,
and until I see some factory listings for one I flat don't believe it.


-> Also, it had a crummy cam that wouldn't idle unless the engine had
-> been warmed up for at least one minute.

 First generation smog systems usually leaned the bitch out of the idle
mix, then retarded the spark.  Made 'em run like crud.
                                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 11:40:34 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6420
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I was wondering if anyone could tell me the years of production for
-> the porsche 914...
-> I hope to put an AMERICAN motor in the car...

 You mean you found one someone hadn't already swapped a small block
Chevy into?  That's a popular swap.

 Personally I'd go with the Buick V6, or maybe the Chevy V6.  No need to
lug around the extra weight of the 8, plus it requires a little surgery
due to the length.  The six would fit better.

 Hmm... it'd be a race to see which you found first - a motor from a
Syclone, or one from a Grand National...  With 15+ pounds of boost, you
could be b-b-b-bad to the b-b-bone.
                                                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 11:44:53 1993
Subject: Re:914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6421
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Sat, 18 Sep 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> 	Why don't you get a fiero and put a american moter in an anerican car?
> Henry


Maybe, that sounds like a good idea too...
but I tend to like steel rather than plastic....


<%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%>
   I hate the rain too sometimes, but hell, if it didn't fall we would.                           --- H. Clark





----------
Posted by: "[ Pearl Jam ]..............................................." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 11:49:19 1993
Subject: Re: Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6422
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article <2rkz9b@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>
>                                          I hear you can now buy the 
>Chrysler 426 Hemi over-the-counter, in aluminum block form, probably for 
>$10,000 also.  If I only had money...

Back when I sold hi-po auto parts, there was a Keith Black aluminum
426 hemi block and heads listed in the Direct Connection catalog. The
block went for $5,000 and the heads for $2,500 each. So if memory serves
correctly, that's $10,000 w/o intake, exhaust or any of the other goodies
to make the engine run. Also remember this was around 1986, so I imagine
prices have gone up a wee bit since then.

Snuffy

--
Just say NO to .signatures!!				venger+@pitt.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!pitt.edu!venger+ (The Knight in Silicon Armor.)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 11:53:48 1993
Subject: Re: Synthetic oil in rotary engine?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6423
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




>
>	According to my owner's manual for my '93 RX-7, it says to NEVER
>use synthetic oil in a rotary. 

I am interested in knowing why.  Any thoughts?

Richard

----------
Posted by: emory!cleveland.freenet.edu!ah335 (Richard Banks)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 20:43:28 1993
Subject: RE:914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6424
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
Posted-Date: Sunday, Sep 19 10:43:56
-> I was wondering if anyone could tell me the years of production for
-> the porsche 914...
-> I hope to put an AMERICAN motor in the car...

 You mean you found one someone hadn't already swapped a small block
Chevy into?  That's a popular swap.

 Personally I'd go with the Buick V6, or maybe the Chevy V6.  No need to
lug around the extra weight of the 8, plus it requires a little surgery
due to the length.  The six would fit better.
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 
* The 914 was produced by the Karmann factory in Germany from 1970 to
* 1976, there were about 115,000 sold here in the U.S. (if memory serves).
* The available engines were; 1.7l, 1.8l, 2.0l pancake 4 (sililar to but
* not the same as the VW powerplant) two 914's were manufactured with
* water cooled Porsche V8's, these are still in possesion of the Porsche
* family.
* Common problems with these species of Porsche are susceptibility to rust,
* engine fires caused by fuel line failure (many were pressure-loop fuel
* injected -electronic), and vapor lock (cars with FI, and/or A/C).
* The spark plugs are easy to change on these...but the heater system
* is a VW like heat exchanger prone to rust, but stainless is available.
* The transmission on these is a 5 speed manual, full synchro, able to
* carry up to 250HP reliably, but will need extra lubrication to handle
* loads in excess of that.  There is documentation on uprating the 915
* tranny with oiling bar, hardened gearing, etc...I cant help you there.
* 
* The bodies on these like to rust-out bad around the jack point, which is
* similar to the VW beetle (and 911, 944, 356, etc...) in that the jack
* lifts the entire side of the car off the ground.  This area is also a
* structural support or 'spine' of the car's body (unibody) so beware of
* 'flexy-flyers'. 
* 
* There is a source for off-the-shelve conversion kits;
* Renegade Hybrids @ (213) 696-1344 12004 rivera rd Santa Fe Springs, CA
* 90670.
* The ad reads: 2300 lbs, 0 to 60= 4.7 secs, 0 to 100= 10.0 sec, 1/4 mi=12.9
* 155 mph+ top speed (300hp 350 chevy).
* There are conversions for 911's also, but the 914 is 0.2 sec faster across
* the board.
*
* Although I prefer the 914 be preserved in its OEM form, saving a serial #
* from a worse fate is OK too.  Perhaps the interest for the marque will
* grow and the 914 will equal the 356 and 911 in some historical respect 
* greater than Volkswagen.  The parts prices are nearly the same (Yow!).
*  -kyle
* 
   

----------
Posted by: Kyle Ehler 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 20:48:55 1993
Subject: Re:914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6425
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Why don't you get a fiero and put a american moter in an anerican
-> car? Henry

 Because the Fiero is an overweight pig built out of junk parts - the
weak X-car transaxle in back, modified junk Chevette front suspension
parts - the plastic body panels cause condensation in wet climates that
rot the "space frame" chassis right out of the car, they're ugly, and
there's barely enough room for the 60 degree Chevy V6 assuming you're a
maintenance masochist.

 By the time you finished upgrading a Fiero to handle much more power,
you wouldn't have much Fiero left.  Pontiac found that out the hard way.
                                                                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 20:54:03 1993
Subject: Re: Synthetic oil in rotary engine?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6426
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> >	According to my owner's manual for my '93 RX-7, it says to NEVER
> >use synthetic oil in a rotary. 
> 
> I am interested in knowing why.  Any thoughts?
> 
	This was te big subject the one week I was on the rx-7 list.
Aparently the synthetics leave a film on the rotor housing when they burn.
I don't know why Mazda hasn't done like Honda and brew their own oil.

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 20:57:59 1993
Subject: Re: 914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6427
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> On Sat, 18 Sep 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:
> 
> > 	Why don't you get a fiero and put a american moter in an anerican car?
> > Henry
> 
> 
> Maybe, that sounds like a good idea too...
> but I tend to like steel rather than plastic....
> 
	All the 914's I've seen were iron oxide :)
	How this for an idea. Doesn't the old Al 215 have the mounting
points as the 231 that evolved (devolved?) from it. Didn't the Feiro come
with the 3.8. Wouldn't that make for a fast feiro?
Henry

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Sep 19 21:02:41 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6428
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Sun, 19 Sep 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

>  You mean you found one someone hadn't already swapped a small block
> Chevy into?  That's a popular swap.

I havent found a car yet, thats the problem...
and I don't quite know which year would be the best...

>  Personally I'd go with the Buick V6, or maybe the Chevy V6.  No need to
> lug around the extra weight of the 8, plus it requires a little surgery
> due to the length.  The six would fit better.

that sounds like an Idea...

>  Hmm... it'd be a race to see which you found first - a motor from a
> Syclone, or one from a Grand National...  With 15+ pounds of boost, you
> could be b-b-b-bad to the b-b-bone.

hmmm, this sounds good since I get 25% off anything I buy through GM...



<%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%>
   I hate the rain too sometimes, but hell, if it didn't fall we would.                           --- H. Clark





----------
Posted by: "[ Pearl Jam ]..............................................." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 10:41:46 1993
Subject: Re: 914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6429
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Sun, 19 Sep 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> 	All the 914's I've seen were iron oxide :)
> 	How this for an idea. Doesn't the old Al 215 have the mounting
> points as the 231 that evolved (devolved?) from it. Didn't the Feiro come
> with the 3.8. Wouldn't that make for a fast feiro?
> Henry

the fiero sucks rocks =)

----------
Posted by: "[ Pearl Jam ]..............................................." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 10:49:21 1993
Subject: 'Need recommendation for engine re-build shop in N.J.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6430
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm planning on having the engine in my '63 T-bird rebuilt and I'm looking
for recommendations for shops in the central N.J. area (I live in Monmouth
county). 

Thanks

Jim Feeney
 

----------
Posted by: emory!globe1.att.com!jrf
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 10:53:55 1993
Subject: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6431
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On the way home from the arts show (in which my wife was exhibiting *groan* :-),
I stopped by the regular monthly show  of the local rod club.  Nifty get-
together.  Mostly old-style rods but a few modern cars tossed in for good
measure.  A guy was there with his new Camaro with "Official Indy Pace
Car" slathered all over it.  Otherwise a nice looking convertable.
He had the hood up so I poked around a bit.  First thing that got my
attention was how far the engine was set back in the frame.  I could only
really see about the front 1/3 of the engine; the rest was back under
the cowl.  I was wondering what body parts had to come off for service :-)

Next thing I noticed was a thick plastic "wire loom" running from the 
fire wall to the front of the engine.  It had writing in large letters
that said "Caution High Pressure Gasoline".  I did a double take and
saw that inside the loom were several runs of plastic gas line.  Looked
identical to the hard nylon stuff used in industrial instrumentation
called PolyFlow.  I don't know that I'm just real impressed with this
"feature".

Last thing I noticed as the light started to fail was the air
temperature sensor just kinda shoved through the wall of the plastic
intake snorkle.  Looked like it could fall out with little urging.

And I noted that Detroit has eliminated me as a potential customer yet
again.  Have all these car companies forgotten that some percentage of
the population is tall?  Grrrrr.

John


-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC                   | For a free sample magazine, send
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM)     | a digest-size 52 cent SASE 
Marietta, Ga     "Hotrods'n'computers"   | (Domestic) to PO Box 669728
jgd@dixie.com    "What could be better?" | Marietta, GA 30066
Email may be published at my sole discretion.

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 11:00:21 1993
Subject: Re: turbocharger for \6
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6432
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Tom,

        HP Books "How to Select and Install Turbochargers" is a good place
to start. There are also many other books on the subject. From what I
understand the inline six is a good configuration for turbocharging 
(I have a turbocharged 240Z and I'm very happy with it's performance :).

        I've included some turbo distibutors from the Z-Car list.

        Good Luck!

        Pete

DAP Industries                  - Turbocharging and custom EFI
David Piper                     - Fuel formulation/blending
17 Eljema Forest Drive          - ChemE/Chemist
Piedmont, SC 29673              - Near Greenville
(803) 277 1343

Eastern Performance             - Buick Grand National speciality
100 Sheffield Court             - Lots of turbo goodies for the Z-car hacker
Chalfont, PA 18914
(800) buick-go                  - (800) 284-2546

HP Books                        - Automotive speciality publisher.
PO Box 5367
Tucson, AZ 85703
(602) 888-2150

Spearco                         - Lots of Intercoolers, turbo kits, water
14664 Titus St.                   injection kits, etc.
Panorama City, CA 91402
(818) 901 7851
(818) 785 4362 (fax)

Turbo Accessories               - Electronic boost control, other goodies
1815 W. 213th St, Suite 100       from Japan's hotrod market.
Torrance, CA 90501
(213) 328 2800

Turbo City                      - Large array of turbos, intercoolers,etc.
1137 W. Katella
Orange, CA 92667
(714) 639 4933
(714) 997 1196 (fax)

Turbo Tom's                     - Turbo and suspension kits.
(404) 458-5055

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 13:25:15 1993
Subject: Re: Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6433
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Sounds like the hemi's.  You can also build an SVO 460 Ford engine with hemi
>heads, but it'll cost you about $10,000.  I hear you can now buy the 
>Chrysler 426 Hemi over-the-counter, in aluminum block form, probably for 
>$10,000 also.  If I only had money...

Chrysler is now remanufacturing the cast iron Hemi block - supposidly with 
some improvements.  That ought to bring the price down to $9000 :-). Has 
anyone gotten curious and check up on this?  Oh the aluminum Hemi engines 
are not for street use.  Since they have iron sleeves that contact the 
water jacket.  The uneven heating properties of the iron vs. the 
aluminum coupled with 15psi cooling system leads to oil contamination. 
I've heard of people running the aluminum block on the street - use a low
pressure radiator cap (and big radiator) and change the oil every 200 - 300
miles.  Course you could always use the solid blocks and limit your trips
to 1/4 mile at a time.

Dirk

[Direct Connection had one of these iron blocks on display at the Southern
Nationals this year accompanied by a lot of promotional materials.
I did not ask about price but it did look good. JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 13:30:36 1993
Subject: RE:Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6434
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Dave Williams asks:
> Where could you buy unleaded gas in 1972, Bob?  I remember being able
>to buy "white" gas in some places in 1968, which was unleaded, but
>nobody used it as a vehicle fuel - it was for gasoline torches and the
>like. (hey, if anyone knows where I can buy one of those, clue me in.
>Here in AR nobody has ever heard of them)  Unleaded didn't hit the pumps
>here until mid'74.

Unleaded bacame available in Southern California in 1972.  I didn't
pay too much attention to it because the leaded was still available.
I did try the unleaded experiment once but since I got dieseling
I never used the stuff again.

> I've never seen any GM documentation indicating any production
>Chevrolet V8 with iron heads *ever* came with Stellite seats.
>Chevrolet claimed the seats on some engines were "induction hardened",
>which according to my metallurgy texts is basically meaningless when
>applied to cast iron.

I can't say for absolute fact that the seats in my heads were Stellite
but the mechanic that I talked to claimed that they were, and that you
couldn't cut them with a stone.  Since I got this info second hand
I'll have to say that it is unverified.

Bob Hale           hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 13:35:16 1993
Subject: Re: 914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6435
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>>914
> 	All the 914's I've seen were iron oxide :)
> 	How this for an idea. Doesn't the old Al 215 have the mounting
> points as the 231 that evolved (devolved?) from it. Didn't the Feiro come
> with the 3.8. Wouldn't that make for a fast feiro?
> Henry

The Fiero GT had the Chebby 2.8 MPI V6 ... different animal from the Buick 231
(which became yet another GM corporate motor ...).

There's a local Fiero GT running around with a FRONT mounted small block with
THM350.  Very interesting ... had to sacrifice the A/C for clearance, but
everything else shoehorned in pretty cleanly.  The hood has one of those "cowl
induction" looking hood scoops for carb clearance, but other than that it looks
pretty stock.  I have no idea how good (or bad) it performs, but it always
draws a crowd at the weekly show n' shine.

Alot of work for questionable results IMHO, but to each his own .... after all,
I'm truly sick ... I like Buicks! <*GRIN*>

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... honest officer, it's only a little V6 ..."


----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 13:40:23 1993
Subject: RE: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6436
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>And I noted that Detroit has eliminated me as a potential customer yet
>again.  Have all these car companies forgotten that some percentage of
>the population is tall?  Grrrrr.
>
>John

My father and I have the same problem.  I don't know what you consider tall
but he's 6'2" (and he says shrinking :-)) and I'm 6'3".  We both can fit 
into the 82-92 F-bodies - but only with T-tops.  Thank god for tilt wheel 
and reclining seatbacks.  BTW have you ever tried a mustang 5.0?  The seats
never seem to be just right.  I still love the car - last factory hotrod 
IMHO but good their are some weird compromises.

[6'7", 300 lbs.  I'm BIG.  That's why I drive my 280Z and the 
old Fury.  JGD]

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 17:41:29 1993
Subject: Random Buick turbo car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6437
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	In a local used-car lot, there sits a Buick Century Turbo (yes, you
read that right).  The hood has the GN bulge and the 3.8 badges on it.  I
don't know spit about this car, but if it does indeed have the 3.8 turbo
motor, then I'm tempted to buy it and play.

	Anybody have anything good/bad to say about this car?  Gotchas?  Things
to watch out for?  Value?

Thanks,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 17:47:11 1993
Subject: Garage Lighting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6438
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Lighting in the garage....

You need lots of it!!

but..

depending upon what you are doing in the garage, should determine what kind 
of light you will require. 

We installed 8' H.O. Flourescent lights for a reason.
They are the *BEST* lights for autobody work... Not the best for power 
consumption. The flourescent lights seem to expose flaws in body work that
you won't pick up outside. They also help to illuminate the vehicle (provided
that some flourescents are on the walls also) when applying paint.

What's the difference between a H.O. and a regular Flourescent?
The H.O. gives twice the lumens (emmited light measured in candlepower) than a
regular flourescent light. Power consumption is up a tiny bit from a regular 
Flourescent. You also get rid of the cold start problem that you experiance
in ~30 degree weather, where the light won't turn on.

Living in Mass, we do a *LOT* of body work because 1.) Vehicles rust 2.) it's
fun changing the shape of said vehicle 3.) you don't want to pay $$$ for 
dent repairs/paint jobs 4.) Extreme custom paint jobs cost big $$$.

If you are doing general repairs most of the time, flourescent lighting isn't
the answer. Metal halide lighting provides the most cost effective lighting 
that is available today (as far as power consumption goes). Cost of the 
fixtures is relatively expensive, though. They will eventually save you money
if you use a lot of lumens. 

Mercury Vapor Lamps are cheap, but draw a lot of power. They are typically 
used in buildings with super-high ceilings, in parking lots, and for street
lighting. Power consumption is tremendous, but so are the lumens they generate.

As far as the garage lighting goes, if you use the garage often, the more the 
better. Also install multiple types. (for instance, install flourescent or 
metal halide lamps for long term useage, AND install normal 60 Watt lights
for walk-in lights. It sucks waiting for the lights to come on when all you 
need is to get to the toolbox for a screwdriver.) Make sure the lighting 
can be turned on for different areas of the shop independantly. No sence 
illuminating the whole building if all you are working on is one car. 

In my Garage, we set-up 2 8' fixtures to one switch. We have all of the swithes
for all lighting located next to the walk-in door, seperated by useage--

2 switches for walk-in lights (total of 4 60 watt lightbulbs)
8 switches for general lighting (16 8' Flourescent Light fixtures)
3 switches for outside lighting (1 60 watt, 2 500 watt metal halide)

It pays to share your garage with an electrician.. All of the lights were 
de-installed from various companies, and re-installed in the garage. 
(in other words, FREE!!)

-dan a.
----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 17:52:33 1993
Subject: Re: 914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6439
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>	How this for an idea. Doesn't the old Al 215 have the mounting
>points as the 231 that evolved (devolved?) from it. Didn't the Feiro come
>with the 3.8. Wouldn't that make for a fast feiro?
>Henry

The 215 Buick motor was 3.5 liters. Are you suggesting this would be more
powerful than a 3.8 Buick motor?



----------
Posted by: David Gonzales (General) 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 17:57:21 1993
Subject: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6440
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> And I noted that Detroit has eliminated me as a potential customer
-> yet again.  Have all these car companies forgotten that some
-> percentage of the population is tall?  Grrrrr.

 Tall?

 I'm 5'11" if I straighten up and stand at attention.  I can only drive
Jay's Corvette with the top down - my head puts a bump in the canvas
with it up.  I have to lean sideways to drive a coupe.  With the seat
shoved all the way back my knees are bent sharply to get to the pedals -
I can touch the firewall with my legs still bent.  The steering wheel is
telescopic - from too close to rubbing the seat.  Part of the problem is
I'm overweight, and the Corvette's seats are maybe 9 inches wide with a
tall, hard "V" bolster on each side, and wraparound side bolsters.  If
you were built like Cosby's Wierd Harold (6'5 and 100 pounds) you might
fit; I put an ass-cheek on each side bolster and I swear nothing touches
in the middle.  The car is agonizing to drive more than a few minutes at
a time.
                                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 18:02:32 1993
Subject: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6441
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> fire wall to the front of the engine.  It had writing in large
-> letters that said "Caution High Pressure Gasoline".  I did a double
-> take and saw that inside the loom were several runs of plastic gas
-> line.

 Uh.. yeah.  The junkyards are FULL of burn jobs nowadays.  Since I work
whenever I please, I often ride shotgun with my friend Tommy, who drives
a wrecker for the local Chevy dealer.  We tow a lot of burn jobs.
Putting the fuel pump in the tank and pressurizing the whole fuel system
is a STUPID idea.
                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 18:39:28 1993
Subject: RE:Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6442
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Dave writes:
-> 
-> -> In 1972, Chevy was producing engines which were supposed to be OK to
-> -> run on unleaded gas.  I had one of these.  When you turned it off it
-> -> would diesel on unleaded but not on regular.
-> 
->  Where could you buy unleaded gas in 1972, Bob?  I remember being able
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
-> to buy "white" gas in some places in 1968, which was unleaded, but
-> nobody used it as a vehicle fuel - it was for gasoline torches and the
-> like. (hey, if anyone knows where I can buy one of those, clue me in.
-> Here in AR nobody has ever heard of them)  Unleaded didn't hit the pumps
-> here until mid'74.
-> 

[rest deleted]

Unleaded gas has been around since at least the '50's.  Amoco Premium
was unleaded.  It was also known as white gas.  It was the recommended
fuel for Coleman gas lanterns.

This was the central part of PA.  Maybe Amoco didn't sell gas in your
part of the country.

George Kulp

----------
Posted by: emory!VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 18:44:17 1993
Subject: Re: Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6443
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-> [Direct Connection had one of these iron blocks on display at the Southern
-> Nationals this year accompanied by a lot of promotional materials.
-> I did not ask about price but it did look good. JGD]
-> 
-> ----------
-> Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
->  

A recent flyer from Mancini Racing, Roseville, MI, says the 426 hemi
blocks are in stock and cost $2495.

----------
Posted by: emory!VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 18:49:26 1993
Subject: RE: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6444
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>>And I noted that Detroit has eliminated me as a potential customer yet
>>again.  Have all these car companies forgotten that some percentage of
>>the population is tall?  Grrrrr.
>>
>>John
>
>My father and I have the same problem.  I don't know what you consider tall
>but he's 6'2" (and he says shrinking :-)) and I'm 6'3".  We both can fit
>into the 82-92 F-bodies - but only with T-tops.  Thank god for tilt wheel
>and reclining seatbacks.  BTW have you ever tried a mustang 5.0?  The seats
>never seem to be just right.  I still love the car - last factory hotrod
>IMHO but good their are some weird compromises.
>
>[6'7", 300 lbs.  I'm BIG.  That's why I drive my 280Z and the
>old Fury.  JGD]
>
 
John, I cant help but laugh.  Recall a certain road trip in my CRX?  For those
who are confused, John looked pretty funny crammed into the passenger seat of 
my 88 CRX.  Even funnier is when, while travelling down I-75 at about 75 my 
hood came unlatched, flew up, and crushed my windshield.  It was very handy 
have a 6'7", 300 lb guy _kick_ my hood back into shape (2 kicks to re-curve 
the hood, and 1 good kick to _almost_permanently_ close it).  

See John, I can laugh about it now... :-)

-tim


[That was the closest I've ever come - INCLUDING when the drunk hit me 
head-on - to having to get out and shake out my pants.  We're driving
along, me with my knees up under my chin, talking typical hotrod stuff
when absolutely, completely without warning something exploded right in our
faces, the world went away and my lap was filled with glass.  There was 
oh, maybe a 0.005" slit for Tim to look out of between the hood and the
cowl.  Nothing to describe the feeling of hurtling down the road at 
take-me-to-jail speed and not be able to see a thing!  That hood wrapped
back to conform to the contour of what was left of the windshield.  This
thing came up so fast I didn't see it move before it hit the windshield.

What happened was the ^%*&^&*^ little bolt with a funky head on it
Honda (and most other mfrs) use these days for a hood latch backed out.  
This is the bolt that has the spring that pops the hood when you release
the emergency latch.  This spring took up the slop as the bolt unscrewed,
hiding any indication of it loosening.  Air got under the hood when it finally
popped loose and ripped the safety latch loose.  (Ok Dave, dammit, no jokes
about 4 wheeled recycled beer cans!)

I do have to admit I got a certain satisfaction from kicking that hood
back into shape.  :-)  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!spbted.gatech.edu!tim.drury
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 18:55:07 1993
Subject: Hot Fiero setup
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6445
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> The Fiero GT had the Chebby 2.8 MPI V6 ... different animal from the Buick 231
> (which became yet another GM corporate motor ...).
> 

While we're on this topic, we use to race IMSA Firehawk with a Chevrolet
Beretta.  Anyway, we were Cheby sponsored in that we got the Beretta and
3 crate motors to do it with.  The motors were built by Chevrolet
engineers for race application.  They are stock motors, but all dyno-ed
and built to spec/completely balanced.  The fourth motor (which was in
the car, of course) was pretty damn unbelievable for a 2.8.

Anyway, we have since stopped racing in Firehawk, and sold the Beretta.
The three remaining 2.8l are in their crates gathering dust.  Our shop
has no use for them (we're a Nissan house...), so we'd like to get rid
of them.  The price can be made right to anyone seriously interested in
purchasing one/two/three of these motors.  These are direct ignition
motors (like those found on the 1988 Fiero, I believe).  We also have
extensive documentation for these motors - which was sent to us by
Chevrolet.  Either contact me via e-mail or Brian Downey at Datsun
Dynamics.

		Filippo Morelli
		bilge@maxim.com
		Brian Downey
		Datsun Dynamics
		703-759-4610

----------
Posted by: emory!East.DELFIN.com!bilge (Filippo Morelli)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 19:03:05 1993
Subject: RE:Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6446
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>-> In 1972, Chevy was producing engines which were supposed to be OK to
>-> run on unleaded gas.  I had one of these.  When you turned it off it
>-> would diesel on unleaded but not on regular.
>
> Where could you buy unleaded gas in 1972, Bob?  I remember being able
> . . .
>Here in AR nobody has ever heard of them)  Unleaded didn't hit the pumps
>here until mid'74.

I owned a '72 Corvette and the owners manual indicated one could use
either leaded or low-lead (was low-lead available only 'up north'?)
It lived on a diet of leaded fuel, it was less expensive than the
low-lead.

>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!prg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 19:09:09 1993
Subject: Re: Headers and Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6447
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>>Headers and Spark Plugs
[...Chrysler is now remanufacturing the cast iron Hemi block - supposidly with 
some improvements. ...]

Dirk

[Direct Connection had one of these iron blocks on display at the Southern
Nationals this year accompanied by a lot of promotional materials.
I did not ask about price but it did look good. JGD]

There was a good write up a couple months ago in National Dragster about the
improved blocks.  Had some neat pictures of the blocks coming out of the
casting process and still glowing red hot.  I just kind of skimmed the article
with the intention of going back and reading it in detail later.  Never got
around to it ... I'll see if I can dig it up tonight.

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: " ... tire smoke and turbo whine ..."

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 





----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 19:14:05 1993
Subject: Re:914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6448
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>-> Why don't you get a fiero and put a american moter in an anerican
>-> car? Henry
>
> Because the Fiero is an overweight pig built out of junk parts - the
>weak X-car transaxle in back, modified junk Chevette front suspension
>parts - the plastic body panels cause condensation in wet climates that
>rot the "space frame" chassis right out of the car, they're ugly, and
>there's barely enough room for the 60 degree Chevy V6 assuming you're a
>maintenance masochist.

(Hmmmm..  Has the hotrod list been running on 'auto-pilot' the last couple
of weeks as I suspect??)

[Well almost.  I've been working around the clock for the last two
weeks building a trade show booth for my wife's stained glass 
business.  Her first show was this weekend, during which I organized a 
successful tax boycott among the vendors against the Cobb County tax 
collector who came in and just kinda made up a special business tax :-)  
No time to do much of anything else.  JGD]

A friend of mine, Don Rudolph, dropped a Chevy 350 into a Fiero.  It
was quite responsive -- a real sleeper...  I was scared to ride in it!
The only problem he had was he went through two transmissions.  He
finally located a heavy duty *Muncie* and his problems were solved.  The
actual conversion is offered as a 'kit', video tapes and all...  You
can decide what to supply and what you want supplied.

Don spent many hours on the conversion and it's a real attention grabber
when he stops someplace and pops open the 'hood'..  You should see the
double-takes!

I'm not much for Fieros either Dave, but name calling seems somewhat
unproductive -- after all, this is the hotrod list, not the 'I love
Fords and hate Fiero list'..  ;^)
----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!prg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 19:19:43 1993
Subject: Them Hemi's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6449
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	I have been (seriously!) considering putting together a hemi
engine, and maybe sticking it in an old Charger (nice cars, I might
add). Of course, my brother thinks I'm crazy.

>Chrysler is now remanufacturing the cast iron Hemi block - supposidly with 
>some improvements.  That ought to bring the price down to $9000 :-). Has 
>anyone gotten curious and check up on this?  Oh the aluminum Hemi engines 
>are not for street use.  Since they have iron sleeves that contact the 
>water jacket.  The uneven heating properties of the iron vs. the 
>aluminum coupled with 15psi cooling system leads to oil contamination. 
>I've heard of people running the aluminum block on the street - use a low
>pressure radiator cap (and big radiator) and change the oil every 200 - 300
>miles.  Course you could always use the solid blocks and limit your trips
>to 1/4 mile at a time.

	Keith Black has made the Aluminum hemi block, which goes for
around $4800-$5000. But Mopar has started re-casting the hemi iron
block, and I've seen them for $2450 dealer's price.

	However, the only hemi heads I know of are the Keith Black
Aluminum heads, which are in the $1700-$2000 range each. I'm going
eventually find out if Mopar is also casting new iron heads, which
I don't doubt.

	PAW carries a single 4-bbl aluminum intake for the hemi,
which is only around $200. (They also have a dual-4bbl supercharger
intake, which is almost $1000). I have heard, but don't know for
sure, that somebody (Keith Black?) still makes the 6-pack manifold,
which is also has a walloping price of over $1000.

	According to my calculations (with a bit of fantasy thrown
in), a nice hemi engine would cost:

$2450 Iron Block
$1000 x 2 Iron Heads
$200 intake

And PAW has a custom racing kit for the 426 that comes with those
hyper-something pistons, crank, rods, rings, bearings, oil pump,
pins, etc. All you need now are a few odds and ends...an oil pan,
carburetor, a nice set of headers, a few valves, water pump, and a
$200 set of valve covers, with spark plug holes in the center. A
mere $6500 investment, no?


                                                    Jason

A man who smiles when things go wrong was thought of someone to blame
it on.

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 19:25:28 1993
Subject: Cheap plumbing sources?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6450
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm in need of some stainless steel braided hose (Aeroquip or Earl's
brands only) and fittings for an oil cooler installation.  Who has good
prices and decent delivery?  Thanks in advance.
 -- Chuck Fry  Chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov

[Assuming this isn't for a custom show car, you might want to check with
Alexander Aeroplane Company here in Atlanta.  800 358 5228.  Jerry, one
of my Rutgers SAE friends came down here and pointed out this outfit
sitting in my back yard here in Atlanta.  Been meaning to write up
something about them.  They cater to aircraft homebuilders and racecar
fabricators.  The same stuff we think of as high-tech is run-of-the-mill
ordinary for them.  They handle all kinds of AN hardware and hose,
composites (38" wide carbon fiber cloth is $40 a yard!), epoxys and so
on.  And because this stuff doesn't have "high tech hotrod" written all
over it, it doesn't have the hotrod markup on it.  A 2" long AN6 (3/8")
bolt (125,000 psi, heat treated, centerless ground, dished head, drilled
for safety wire and chromate plated) is a buck.  Stratoflex stainless
hose in nominally 1/4" (ID 7/32) is $7 a foot in cut lengths, cheaper by
the roll.  Mil-H-6000 aircraft oil hose rated to 1000 psi is $3.75 per
foot for nom 1/4".  A 1/4" magnafluxed Aurora heim joint, typical of what 
would be used on a throttle linkage is only about $3.  Jerry and I drove down 
and visited this place.  What a toy store!  Highly recommended.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: Chuck Fry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 22:00:44 1993
Subject: Re: Headers and Spark Plugs (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6451
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>>Sounds like the hemi's.  You can also build an SVO 460 Ford engine with hemi
>>heads, but it'll cost you about $10,000.  I hear you can now buy the 
>>Chrysler 426 Hemi over-the-counter, in aluminum block form, probably for 
>>$10,000 also.  If I only had money...
>
>Chrysler is now remanufacturing the cast iron Hemi block - supposidly with 
>some improvements.  That ought to bring the price down to $9000 :-). Has 
>anyone gotten curious and check up on this?  Oh the aluminum Hemi engines 

The bare repro block is about $2500.

>Dirk
>
>[Direct Connection had one of these iron blocks on display at the Southern
>Nationals this year accompanied by a lot of promotional materials.
>I did not ask about price but it did look good. JGD]

I prefer the old Direct Connection name too, but it's been Mopar Performance
for a few years now.  (Picky, picky :-)

They supposedly were careful to keep the outside looking fairly close to the
original for restoration purposes, while doing a little internal beefing.
They're also supposed to be coming out with a version that will use the 440
style mounts, for ease in conversion.

[So now I gotta ask.  What makes this block worth more than what a whole
big block ford/chevy motor costs?  Is this just paying for the name "hemi"
or what?  JGD]

>Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
>
David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 22:05:21 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6452
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Where could you buy unleaded gas in 1972, Bob?  I remember being able
>to buy "white" gas in some places in 1968, which was unleaded, but
>nobody used it as a vehicle fuel - it was for gasoline torches and the
>like. (hey, if anyone knows where I can buy one of those, clue me in.
>Here in AR nobody has ever heard of them)  Unleaded didn't hit the pumps
>here until mid'74.


In 1971 nearly all domestic cars were designed to run on the first phase
of de-leading on some fuel called "Low Lead".  This meant hardening
of valve seats, usually with induction hardening.  Stellite seats
and extra machining were too expensive for a production process.  Later, 
no lead became generally available, although induction hardening continues
to be the method most used, except that aluminum heads all have some sort
of inserts.

The low lead fuels had lower octane and as a result, drove all maufacturers
to lower compression ratios 1971 and later.

Amoco was a pioneer in no-lead fuel, with its highest octane gas available
only in no-lead form.  It was usable in gas torches, Coleman lanterns, etc
but was THE Amoco high octane gas.  Dealers at that time (late 60's) admitted 
to doing greater than the normal number of valve jobs on cars using the fuel.

----------
Posted by: NED 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 22:15:38 1993
Subject: RE: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6454
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I can relate to the windshield stories. Here's my experience...
I bought a Da*sun B210 for $40.00. This car sat at Fishermans Whalf in
San Francisco for a long time gathering seagull turd before I bought
it. It belonged to a fish merchant's uncle and there was no key. The uncle had
died (or something like that). Anyway, for the first week of ownership, I
hot wired the car (using the battery to the coil wire and jumping the starter
with a screwdriver). Since this car hadn't run for a long period of time, it
didn't run very well (read: stalled like a SOB).

Here the experience...

I was crossing the Golden Gate Bridge on my approach to the toll booth. When
I was about 4 car lengths away from the booth, the car stalls out. Without
fear of getting rear ended, I jumped out of the car, lifted the hood,
started the car with a screwdriver, closed the hood and then hopped back
into the car. As soon as I go to put it into gear, the car stalls again.
Well what am I to do? You guessed it.... I jumped out of the car to go
through the process again. By this time, the toll collector lady comes out
of her booth with a red flag. She is screaming something about "get back
into your car... you'll get killed out here.... I'll call a tow truck".
At this point, I do notice a multitude of cars approaching at warp speed
into the toll plaza. I am alittle concerned that this toll lady may be
correct and that I may get killed out here. BUT, I don't have the time
or money to wait for this tow truck.

I procede to open the hood, jump the car, close the hood and hop back in
the car only to stall out again. Now I'm nervous.... I'm begining to 
perspire. This red flag waving lady is continuing to scream helpful
safety tid-bits. Regardless, I decide to try it one last time for 
the gipper. I jump out of the car, open the hood, jump the car.........
oh my God.... I forgot to take it out of gear. 

The car starts up and is doing the old idle clump-a-di-clump into the toll
booth all by itself. Not to mention, it ran over the tip of my shoes as it
started. Now the toll lady runs back into the toll booth yelling "YOUR
CRAZY... YOUR CRAZY". I am frantically running around the back of the car
trying to get to the drivers seat before my car decides to run 
through the toll without paying. Just before it gets into the toll booth
overhang, the car stalls. I hop into the car, throw the toll fee at the 
lady and fly out of the plaza at break-neck speed (well.. maybe not break-neck,
it's only a Da*sun.. but it was quick). I was up to about 60 when I realized
that I forgot to close the hood all the way. SMASH.... The windshield breaks.
I'm stick my head out of the window trying to navigate to the side of the road.
Obviously.. I didn't get killed. 

I tried to close the hood but it had an up-curled lip. This was a bummer
day. I kick the car a few times and put an ignition switch the next day. 

Tim

----------
Posted by: emory!ingres.com!brazil (Ya can't git dare from here)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 23:38:00 1993
Subject: Re: 914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6455
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
	[along the idea of a Fiero mit bigger motor...]
>	How this for an idea. Doesn't the old Al 215 have the mounting
>points as the 231 that evolved (devolved?) from it. Didn't the Feiro come
>with the 3.8. Wouldn't that make for a fast feiro?
>Henry

	My recollection is that of a 2.8L-V6 rather than the bigger 3.8...
the 2.8 was from Celebritys, Cimmaron (sp?), and Z-24 Cavaliers, sideways
FWD motors in the intermediate (compact?) bodies.  Not the same as the 3.8
put in the Regal (snap fingers, say "damn!") or Buick LeSabre et al.

	The 2.8 was big for the size car (torque/weight) so, with a nice
torquey motor, available 5-speed manual, its own Fiero-not-Chevette front
and rear suspension, they cancelled the car.  She-it. Go GM.

				thi v.

--
****************************************************************************
*  "Will work for beer."     Thi VanAusdal      EE USC, Columbia,SC        *
****************************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!usceast.cs.scarolina.edu!ece.scarolina.edu!ausdal (Thi Van Ausdal)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 11:36:54 1993
Subject: Re: 914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6456
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 20 17:50:28 1993
Date: Mon, 20 Sep 93 17:41 EDT
Subject: Re: 914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>>	How this for an idea. Doesn't the old Al 215 have the mounting
>>points as the 231 that evolved (devolved?) from it. Didn't the Feiro come
>>with the 3.8. Wouldn't that make for a fast feiro?
>>Henry

>The 215 Buick motor was 3.5 liters. Are you suggesting this would be more
>powerful than a 3.8 Buick motor?

 The newer Buick turbo motors are stronger. However you'd need to do
a lot of wiring and plumbing. If you want an old-timey hot rod swap 
(one wire, one hose, four barrels) then you'd probably be happier with
the 215 on a couple of counts. First, it's a bit lighter. Second, it's
going to be a bit smoother than an oddy, or even the "even"-fire later
V-6s. Third, its valve diameter to cylinder volume ratio is very high,
implying that you can rev pretty well before valving becomes the flow
limiter. The stock intake was an aluminum 2BBL job that looked pretty 
lame, but I'm sure there's something that'd take a little Holley 390 
4BBL out there. The later V-6s has significant head improvements but
I think the 215 still has a better valve/volume ratio. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 11:45:13 1993
Subject: Hemi Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6457
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> >
> >Chrysler is now remanufacturing the cast iron Hemi block - supposidly with 
> >some improvements.  That ought to bring the price down to $9000 :-). Has 
> >anyone gotten curious and check up on this?  Oh the aluminum Hemi engines 
> 
> The bare repro block is about $2500.
> 
> [So now I gotta ask.  What makes this block worth more than what a whole
> big block ford/chevy motor costs?  Is this just paying for the name "hemi"
> or what?  JGD]

I've got to ask the same question.  I'm building a (what I would consider)
fairly high performance big block for about what will be $4000.  Will I be 
blown out of the water *that* much?  I'll admit that I have very little 
knowledge about hemis, but I've still gotta wonder...

Paul

----------
Posted by: Paul Olson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 11:51:59 1993
Subject: RE: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6458
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


(discussion about not being able to see because windshield is blocked deleted)

If you liked that "Nothing to describe the feeling of hurtling down the road 
at take-me-to-jail speed and not be able to see a thing!" feeling, have I got
a sport for you!!!! That described our winter hobby... Ice Racing!!! 

It's only available to the northern states (minn, Ny, Mass, Nh, Maine that i'm 
aware of...) Not a hell of a lot of ice on the lakes in Georgia to suspend 20
cars out at a time... (ice is typically 14" thick in the "thin" spots)

We have three classes. 4 cyl, stock (8 cyl), and modified (anything goes).
No 4 wheel drive permitted. Races are on a 1/2 mile oval for typically 20 laps.

The only way you are able to see during the race is to be out in #1 position, 
or drive while looking out the side window to gather up your location on the
track. The windshield (even with the wipers and heater on fast)is only useful
in the corners, because everyone gets off of the throttle. Massive rooster 
tails from the chains on the tires happen to dig a rut and throw all of the 
chewed up ice right on your windshield as you leave the corner from the guy
in front of you... but there is no 1/2 " slot to see through...

It's one of the neatest ways to learn how to drive in adverse conditions...
And it's legal...

-dan a.

----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 14:05:31 1993
Subject: Unleaded == White Gas?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6459
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Amoco was a pioneer in no-lead fuel, with its highest octane gas available
>only in no-lead form.  It was usable in gas torches, Coleman lanterns, etc

  OK, this reminds me of a question I've been avoiding due to charter
issues, but Coleman literature conflicting with oldtimer experience
has got me wondering (besides, I have no Usenet access to rec.camping ;) .

  When I was younger, we always used "white gas" in torches, Coleman
lanterns & stoves, etc.  Circa '86, we used pump unleaded in regular old
camping equipment, and I notice all the Coleman literature for their
new equipment warning not to use unleaded fuel.

  What's the difference between the old white gas (& Coleman fuel), and
pump unleaded?  About all I can think of are ethers and alcohols, and maybe
seasonal additives.

  Ron "Pull Up To The Wilco And Fill The Lanterns" Rader

[First and foremost, of course, Coleman wants to sell their expensive little
cans of fuel.  More or less 100% naptha.  I could imagine real concerns being
in the area of additive packages that might leave enough deposits to clog
the generator and perhaps the butane and/or propane added to aid cold starting
causing too much pressure in a hot stove or lantern.  I've burned 
Amoco "white gas" in my camping equipment ever since I first started
camping back in the late 60s with no problems.  

As to charter, as long as no one complains, I let things roam a bit.  
Until someone bitches, I figure we're all having fun and that's what's 
important, right? Besides, we all use coleman stuff when we spend the night 
at the track, right?  At least until we get so good we can buy a 
Wanderlodge :-) JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 14:15:36 1993
Subject: Hemis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6460
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  Alla this talk about Chrysler Hemis has gotten me thinking... and I'm
sure one of you experts would know if anybody did.

  Has anybody (OEM, 3rd party manufacturer, hotrodder) ever designed
hemispherical heads for use on the more common Chevy small blocks and/or
the Windsor Fords?

  Ron "Pipe Dream" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 16:04:41 1993
Subject: Re: Random Buick turbo car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6461
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you wrote:
: 	In a local used-car lot, there sits a Buick Century Turbo (yes, you
: read that right).  The hood has the GN bulge and the 3.8 badges on it.  I
: don't know spit about this car, but if it does indeed have the 3.8 turbo
: motor, then I'm tempted to buy it and play.

: 	Anybody have anything good/bad to say about this car?  Gotchas?  Things
: to watch out for?  Value?

IMHO, the only 3.8 turbo models worth anything from a performance 
perspective are the fuel injected ones ('84 and later). I'll bet that
the Century is a carb model. Worse yet, it might even have the old
restricted port heads.

Norb Brotz                Cray Research Park    Internet: nbrotz@palm.cray.com
Sr. Programmer/Analyst    655F Lone Oak Drive   UUCP:     uunet!cray!nbrotz
Software Division         Eagan, Mn. 55121      phone:    (612) 683-5698

----------
Posted by: emory!palm.cray.com!nbrotz (Norb Brotz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 16:09:01 1993
Subject: Re: Them Hemi's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6462
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  a friend of mine put together a hemi for seven grand picking up parts
  at swap meets and talking to old racers.

----------
Posted by: emory!hp.uwsuper.edu!tcullen (TARY M. CULLEN)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 16:14:29 1993
Subject: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6463
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	It's that time of year again, the time of year when
politician's start playing hard at the game of "Ridiculous
Acts for Re-election".

	Up here in New Jersey, where the air isn't so sweet
as it used to be, and oxygenated gas is already being pumped
into many gas tanks around the state (and you can be sure
my gas mileage will drop 3-5 MPG), there is a new state law
being proposed and tested, which is basically the following:

	All state inspections will now test the dynamic
emissions of all vehicles, instead of static emissions,
and this will be accomplished with new emissions testing
dynometers. (But will they also give a free horsepower
and torque output reading as well, we wonder...)

	The inspection, which is already being tested in
one or two areas, is a four minute test, where a car is
"driven" at 55MPH on the dynometer, and the emissions are
constantly monitored. If at ANY time the emissions go above
the targeted level, the car fails, and the test stops.

	"This will be a great money-making scheme for
mechanics around the state, since it is estimated only
5% of the cars will make it to the end of the 4 minute
inspection." - Some adversary whose name I forgot.

	In the past, it wasn't extremely difficult for
a hot rod to make it through inspection: you re-installed
your catalytic converters if you removed them, you got the
car nice and hot before inspection, played with the timing
a bit, adjusted the idle mixture screws super lean (since
only idle emissions were being tested), and voila! The
car ran like crap, but you made it for another year now.

	A mechanic I know, who owns a large garage, has
this to say: "It probably will happen, but not for a
while. The government always moves extremely slow. But
when it does happen, I'm not doing state inspections
anymore. I charge $25 for a state inspection now. Half
of that is labour costs and equipment costs...that
Bear emissions tester is a $12,000 machine. But it makes
my customers happy. No inspection lines, and they can
get all their car's service work right here. However,
when it start's costing me $650,000 in inspection equipment,
my customers' happiness is not that important. If my
equipment costs jump over 5000%, so do my prices. Look
at this freon mess...I gotta buy freon recycling machines.
I need certification, my mechanics need certification, I
need a license. It's not worth it. Go into lawn mower
repair. Much easier. Lawnmowers belch burning oil smoke,
and nobody cares."

	Being curious about the future, what's a hot-rodder
to do? As I said, now it's possible with some fiddling to
squeeze through inspections. If these new inspection laws
come to pass, how is it possible to get through? Will
'inspection preparation' require changing carburetor jets
and camshaft? (As well as re-installing that pair of
catalytic converters which are sitting outside next to
the garage.)

	I'm not much concerned, because by the time this
comes to pass, who knows where I'll be. But my brother,
who is just finishing up 12:1 street engine with a
228/234 cam AND nitrous injection, is worried. He wants
to know if anybody has any tricks and tips for getting
through this new dyno inspection.

	Me, I think the age of the true hot-rod is really
coming to an end around here, if it hasn't already (except
for the '68 GTO hidden in the back of the garage, which is
only driven after 2AM, when nobody will see.) Such a shame
that I'll actually be forced to drive a little import 
econobox...

[Can't run away from it, unfortunately.  Ga just announced a similar
program for Atlanta to take effect in a couple of years if nothing
happens to block them.  Dyno-based test that runs a standard 
EPA cycle while bagging the whole volume of emission.  Then the bag
is composite sampled and analyzed.  The worst part is the state is
going to build several (~25) inspection stations which will eliminate
the convenient on-every-corner inspection stations.  The
really silly part, and something you might want to write your
congresslime about, is this whole thing is being forced based on a
new EPA rule that requires ozone levels to be below their spec
all but ONE DAY A YEAR.  Atlanta exceeds the limit less than 5 days
a year.  The econazis are out of control.  

This thing can still be worked around for a hotrod but it will take
access to an emission analyzer.  I guess the good part is all these
expensive current emissions analyzers become instant junk and should
be available surplus.  JGD]


                                                    Jason

When people you greatly admire seem to be thinking deep thoughts,
they are probably thinking about lunch.

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 16:20:23 1993
Subject: Re: Headers and Spark Plugs (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6464
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>[So now I gotta ask.  What makes this block worth more than what a whole
>big block ford/chevy motor costs?  Is this just paying for the name "hemi"
>or what?  JGD]

Good question.  If I were building a non-stock-engined car, I'd probably go with
a junkyard 440 for best value.  I'd probably only bother with a hemi if I were
restoring an original hemi car, but in that case I'd want to use an original
block.

However - in "stock" trim, nothing of the era is going to beat the Chrysler
hemi except perhaps a few non-production specials.  In full out race trim (Top
Fuel), there is only one choice - a hemi derivative.  

Anyway, the repro hemi is really probably only useful for those making repro 
hemi cars, those racing in "stock" classes needing replacement blocks, or those 
who just want the name.  (And it is quite a name to Chrysler enthusiasts.)

David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 16:25:52 1993
Subject: RE: Them Hemi's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6465
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>	I have been (seriously!) considering putting together a hemi
>engine, and maybe sticking it in an old Charger (nice cars, I might
>add). Of course, my brother thinks I'm crazy.

I have dreams too... its my wallet thats laughing at me :-)

>>Chrysler is now remanufacturing the cast iron Hemi block - supposidly with 
>>some improvements.  That ought to bring the price down to $9000 :-). Has 
>>anyone gotten curious and check up on this?  Oh the aluminum Hemi engines 
>>are not for street use.  Since they have iron sleeves that contact the 
>>water jacket.  The uneven heating properties of the iron vs. the 
>>aluminum coupled with 15psi cooling system leads to oil contamination. 
>>I've heard of people running the aluminum block on the street - use a low
>>pressure radiator cap (and big radiator) and change the oil every 200 - 300
>>miles.  Course you could always use the solid blocks and limit your trips
>>to 1/4 mile at a time.

>	Keith Black has made the Aluminum hemi block, which goes for
>around $4800-$5000. But Mopar has started re-casting the hemi iron
>block, and I've seen them for $2450 dealer's price.

Again, the KB block can be had with or without water jackets.  For a 5 sec
blast you don't need no stink'n water :-) 

>	However, the only hemi heads I know of are the Keith Black
>Aluminum heads, which are in the $1700-$2000 range each. I'm going
>eventually find out if Mopar is also casting new iron heads, which
>I don't doubt.

You can still buy bare Hemi heads through Hemings - about $1000 a piece.
Figure another $1000 on machine work and parts - specially on old rusty
heads.  Some heads have provisions for dual spark plugs.  I know the early
aluminum heads did and the better Keith Black ones do as well.  There are
other sorces for Hemi Heads.  Dart used to make some ( I think ) and 
Piasano (sp?) makes the JP blocks (stands for "Joe Piasano") - these are
geared to alcohol and top fuel.  They may or may not have provisions for
water and they may or may not fit stock intake manifolds.  More than likely
they have monster ports and probably race only.  A few years back Direct
Connection carried some heads.  I think they weren't Mopar castings but
rather Dart castings.  Some people added theses heads to the 440 block
creating a 440 Hemi.  Not sure what it required but I think the heads 
bolted on.  The block definitly did not have the bolts that screw from
the block into the heads (from the lifter gallery).  I don't know what else
is different.

>	PAW carries a single 4-bbl aluminum intake for the hemi,
>which is only around $200. (They also have a dual-4bbl supercharger
>intake, which is almost $1000). I have heard, but don't know for
>sure, that somebody (Keith Black?) still makes the 6-pack manifold,
>which is also has a walloping price of over $1000.

I'm not sure what PAW carries but I doubt they carry a kit for Hemi's.
The Hemi's crank is similar to the 440 (same journal sizes / stroke) but
origionally came "flame hardend" and 8-bolts to the flywheel/flexplate.
Connecting rods are also unique - slighly shorter that 440/ RB rods and
7/16 bolts.  NASCAR Hemi Rods actually have 1/2" bolts.  The piston is 
obviously unique.  I have seen cranks for $1000, connecting rods will
probably be the same $1000, and pistons - $500 - $800 (just guessing).

Most other parts are interchangable with the RB blocks. Timing chain etc.
The cam is unique - I think Hemis go E-I-E-I-E-I-E-I.

Oh yeah what about valve covers?  You need some kind of tube to contain
the spark plug / wire.

Hemi's never came stock with a six-pack but you can get a cross-ram which
in theory would allow any top.

So lets see
$2500 block
$1000 crank - if the gods are nice
$1000 connecting rods - your probably going to get carrillos
$600  pistons
$400  assemble/ balance/ machine 
$2000 heads
$1000 parts and machining for heads
$1000 valve train / oiling system / other little stuff
$1000 for ignition / fuel system - maybe even some headers
______
$10,500

Please tell me I'm wrong.

>	According to my calculations (with a bit of fantasy thrown
>in), a nice hemi engine would cost:
>
>$2450 Iron Block
>$1000 x 2 Iron Heads
>$200 intake
>
>And PAW has a custom racing kit for the 426 that comes with those
>hyper-something pistons, crank, rods, rings, bearings, oil pump,
>pins, etc. All you need now are a few odds and ends...an oil pan,
>carburetor, a nice set of headers, a few valves, water pump, and a
>$200 set of valve covers, with spark plug holes in the center. A
>mere $6500 investment, no?

Ah.... No!  Becareful, there was a 426 wedge motor in the early 60's.
In 1964 it was replace by the 426 Hemi for racing use.  But if your
restoring an origional Hemi car - whats 10 grand?
>
>
>                                                    Jason
>
Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 21 16:32:30 1993
Subject: Re: Headers and Spark Plugs (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6466
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>[So now I gotta ask.  What makes this block worth more than what a whole
>big block ford/chevy motor costs?  Is this just paying for the name "hemi"
>or what?  JGD]

Blasphamy!

Yes its true dollar for dollar there are _MUCH_ better horse power deals.
Also in unlimited racing classes like Pro-Stock the Hemi's extra heavy 
valve train and complicated push rods (limit porting) causes problems above
8500rpm (pro-stock normally is a 10000+ rpm territory -except the Wayne
County Dodge 8400rpm- not a Hemi though).  On the street, however, with a 
Hemi no one will race you!  Its all mystic.  With the Hemi cylinder heads
the engine looks huge.  They don't call it the elphant motor for nothing.

Oh yeah - with a mild hydrolic cam its rated at 425hp by the NHRA for Stock
Eliminator and 490hp for Super Stock.  This is the same territory as the 
ultra radical 427's of 1969 ( you know the same ones with factory ratings
of 500 + hp).

Sort of like owning a Ferrari - yes there are some that can beat it - for 
less money - but you'll have a tough time convincing someone without actually
racing.

Dirk

PS Hemi's Rule in top fuel and funney car - they are the only engines that
have survived 5000hp nitro runs.  They're pretty hot in Alky to but they
are handicapped against wedge-head motors.

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 02:42:07 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6467
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Amoco has always been unleaded! It used to be called WHITE gas because of this.
Coleman used to recommend it for use in their lanterns and stoves.


----------
Posted by: emory!falcon3.att.com!cds
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 02:51:30 1993
Subject: Re: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6468
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <-nmz01b@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> A guy was there with his new Camaro with "Official Indy Pace
> Car" slathered all over it.  First thing that got my
> attention was how far the engine was set back in the frame.  I could only
> really see about the front 1/3 of the engine; the rest was back under
> the cowl.  I was wondering what body parts had to come off for service :-)

I don't want to start any sort of Ford vs. Chevy thing, but it is my
understanding that the new Camaro engine doesn't get "pulled", it gets
"dropped".  It must come out the bottom of the car.  Needless to say, this
element of the car's design completely rules me out as a potential customer
(and the new Mustang is butt ugly, IMHO.. Take the destiny of the V8 away
from the bean counters!).

  Brian


---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com
Not speaking for Ford.

----------
Posted by: emory!pms706.pms.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:00:23 1993
Subject: Re:  Hemi Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6469
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>> >Chrysler is now remanufacturing the cast iron Hemi block - supposidly with 
>> >some improvements.  That ought to bring the price down to $9000 :-). Has 
>> >anyone gotten curious and check up on this?  Oh the aluminum Hemi engines 
>> 
>> The bare repro block is about $2500.
>> 
>> [So now I gotta ask.  What makes this block worth more than what a whole
>> big block ford/chevy motor costs?  Is this just paying for the name "hemi"
>> or what?  JGD]
>
>I've got to ask the same question.  I'm building a (what I would consider)
>fairly high performance big block for about what will be $4000.  Will I be 
>blown out of the water *that* much?  I'll admit that I have very little 
>knowledge about hemis, but I've still gotta wonder...
>
>Paul

In our elusive search for a powerplant for our '64 Fury Convertible
(going for the quickest street car title), we came up with the following
information...

The standard in big $$$ mopar is B1; which offers many different displacement
packages.  You can pay some really big $$$ and get a Keith Black HEMI 
($20,000 and up!) or build one yourself from the new mopar castings...
But the real deal we found was with a place called STAGE V.  The guy
who owns the place is a real gear-head engineering type who is very
friendly.  He offers various wedge blocks, kits, and heads that he shows
to outflow ported HEMI heads.  He sent us some dyno sheets for a 
"street" kit that he sells.  How about a 500 inch wedge that runs on
pump gas and makes just under 1000 HP, with a single dominator and _NO_
Nitrous!  That is definitely the shit.  I don't recall any numbers right
off, but I do remember that it was _much_ cheaper to build a monster wedge
motor than even fantasize about a HEMI.  If anyone is interested, I will
dig up this guy's number...

jC.
_________________________________________________________
James C. Akers         FiberCom, Inc.        Roanoke, VA
jca@fibercom.com     uunet!fibercom!jca     (703)342-6700

----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James C. Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:11:33 1993
Subject: Re: Oxygen sensors and DIY instrumentation 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6470
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

--------

   In message  , you write:
 

|		
|
| The sensor can actually be operated in two different modes - constant
| voltage and variable voltage.  The variable voltage mode was alluded
| to earlier; it is the simplest mode.  You connect a high impedance
| voltmeter to the sensor's output and read the voltage which varies from
| essentially 0 to about 1.0 when the sensor is saturated rich.  The
| constant voltage mode requires impressing a constant 0.5 volts onto
| the sensor and measuring the current which flows.  This current is
| a function of the rate and direction of the chemical reaction which
| is occurring in the sensor; one polarity means that the mixture is
| rich and the other polarity means that the mixture is lean.  At
| stoich mixture the current is 0.
|
|		
| 
| Bob Hale           hale@brooktree.com


Voltage and current mode of operation...  After looking at the
current-voltage characteristics (as a function of lambda) for a generic
sensor in the literature, it would seem to me that the most dynamic range
is achieved using a circuit with an input impedance of -30 Ohms and an
equivalent source of 0.6V.  Whereas the voltage mode is primarily lambda=1.0
or saturation, this MAY work from 1.2
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:18:04 1993
Subject: RE: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6471
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> hiding any indication of it loosening.  Air got under the hood when
-> it finally popped loose and ripped the safety latch loose.  (Ok Dave,
-> dammit, no jokes about 4 wheeled recycled beer cans!)



 I had basically the same thing happen at warp speed in my Capri.  For
ten years afterward every car I owned had hood pins.


 Of course, it's not *quite* like riding through a swarm of bees on a
'scoot, but it's plenty exciting.
                                                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:22:36 1993
Subject: RE:Chevy castings, forgings "X"
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6472
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I owned a '72 Corvette and the owners manual indicated one could use
-> either leaded or low-lead (was low-lead available only 'up north'?)

 That reminds me.  This morning I drove down to North Little Rock to
pick up some more needle valves for the Yammer.  As I was pulling into
the bike shop, I was passed by a most unusual police car - a white '80
Corvette with shields, "NORTH LITTLE ROCK POLICE" lettering, and a
midget light bar.

 Rather interesting, considering NLR claims the city is going bankrupt.
Unless it was some poor bastard's car that got impounded as "evidence."
                                                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:27:29 1993
Subject: Re:914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6473
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I'm not much for Fieros either Dave, but name calling seems somewhat
-> unproductive -- after all, this is the hotrod list, not the 'I love
-> Fords and hate Fiero list'..  ;^)

 That wasn't a flame, that was my professional opinion.  Which part of
the "name calling" do you feel was inaccurate?
                             
[Ok, guys.  Truce.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:33:57 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6474
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

California is going to go to a similar system, possibly as early as
next year. The worst part is not the dyno test, but that the testing
will go back into the hands of the State - no more corner smog testers
with price competition and "don't pass don't pay" policies, but just
your friendly State bureaucracy enhancing their revenue collection schemes.

I'm not looking forward to it. All my cars but one are too new to
qualify for the emissions exemption ('66 in California, with no sliding
20 or 25 year window), and are threatened every time someone comes up
with a "junker" law proposal... 

And most of them aren't hotrodded, just British cars of the era. And
given California's stupid visual inspection rules, I can't modify the
induction system to something that will provide a cleaner tailpipe and
still pass. Grr.

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:37:48 1993
Subject: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6475
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

   Date: Tue, 21 Sep 93 15:19 EDT
   From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)

   [Can't run away from it, unfortunately.  Ga just announced a similar
   program for Atlanta to take effect in a couple of years if nothing
   happens to block them.  Dyno-based test that runs a standard 
   EPA cycle while bagging the whole volume of emission.  Then the bag
   is composite sampled and analyzed.  The worst part is the state is
   going to build several (~25) inspection stations which will eliminate
   the convenient on-every-corner inspection stations.  The
   really silly part, and something you might want to write your
   congresslime about, is this whole thing is being forced based on a
   new EPA rule that requires ozone levels to be below their spec
   all but ONE DAY A YEAR.  Atlanta exceeds the limit less than 5 days
   a year.  The econazis are out of control.  

No shit, John.  It's not the state legislators that are out of control,
it's the EPA.  Consider what's happening here in the land of fruits and
nuts.

California's legislature just voted to beef up the independent
inspection program we're currently using.  But the EPA says that's not
good enough, and wants to blackmail Cal. into enacting a centralized,
state-run program, under threat of losing 40% of our Federal highway
money.  Previous experience with state-run centers in Cal. was
disastrous -- inept inspectors, long lines, long waits, and massive
inconvenience if the car failed the test.  The legislators know that
voters don't want anything to do with that program.  And while the
current program isn't producing the results the EPA wants, and is open
to abuse by independent garage owners, no one has proven that a
state-run program will clean the air either.  But the EPA is insisting
on it.

[I say let 'em keep their damn federal money.  We'll keep the gas 
tax.  Just about every new road built recently in Cobb County, GA (one
of the fastest growing counties in the state) has been built with a special
1% sales tax that goes specifically and directly to road construction.
Even without the federal gas tax money, the states could more than build
their own roads with such a mechanism.  grrrrr  JGD]

We all know the real problem is the poor guy who can't afford to rebuild
the smoking engine in his junker let alone buy a newer car, and the
moron who can't be bothered to do a tuneup every year or so.  These cars
are cranking out an order of magnitude more crud than a well-maintained
car.  But auto enthusiasts are picked on as the guilty parties because
we're an easy and highly visible target for the anti-fun hordes.

And while I have the soapbox, I don't understand why hotrodders are so
eager to pitch the catalytic converters and burn leaded gas in
street-driven cars.  Don't they breathe the same air we breathe?  I
lived too long in LA not to appreciate the improvement in air quality
over the years.  The modern factory performance car would not be
possible without cats.  If you want to run without cats, build a race
car and run it at the track.  That's really the right place for all that
horsepower the leaded gas junkies seem to want.

[I'm in the same boat with you but I can understand where the practice
comes from, having bought a brand new 79 El Camino.  That had to be
the era of the WORST possible emissions control.  The truck ran vastly
better when that flower-pot-in-a-can was cut off.  Today, one can't 
tell the difference.  The only bitch I have is EPA's saying one
can't legally add converter capacity.  Given that people ARE going to 
increase performance with larger exhausts, I'd rather see larger
cats on 'em than nothing at all.  JGD]

Oh well, enough ranting for one day.

 -- Chuck Fry  Chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov

----------
Posted by: Chuck Fry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:44:36 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6476
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <8wnzapb@dixie.com> jgd@dixie.com (John de Armond) writes:
>the convenient on-every-corner inspection stations.  The
>really silly part, and something you might want to write your
>congresslime about, is this whole thing is being forced based on a
>new EPA rule that requires ozone levels to be below their spec
>all but ONE DAY A YEAR.  Atlanta exceeds the limit less than 5 days
>a year.  The econazis are out of control.  

	This, IMHO, is the root of the problem.  The executive branch of
government, according to the U.S. Constitution, has *NO AUTHORITY* to pass
any laws.  This, IMHO, includes regulations which have the force of law.
Congress always seems all too happy to step on the Administration's toes and
grab a bigger chunk of the pie for themselves, so maybe you can convince your
congresscritter to grab this chunk BACK.

	It really frosts my cookies that some bureaucrat that I have no hope
of ever having the power of election over gets to make bullshit laws such as
this one, disguised as "regulations."

>This thing can still be worked around for a hotrod but it will take
>access to an emission analyzer.  I guess the good part is all these
>expensive current emissions analyzers become instant junk and should
>be available surplus.  JGD]

	This is also something to think about.  However, consider the
separation of powers first.  There's one of the biggest roots of the problem
of the government gone out of control.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:51:50 1993
Subject: Re: Headers and Spark Plugs (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6477
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> The bare repro block is about $2500.

-> [So now I gotta ask.  What makes this block worth more than what a
-> whole big block ford/chevy motor costs?  Is this just paying for the
-> name "hemi" or what?  JGD]

 You running off a different price sheet, or what?  $2500 is a lot of
money, but try pricing, say, one of the Chevy high deck race blocks, or
the Olds monster motor block, or even the aftermarket stuff, like Dove
or PSI side-oiler Fords.

 The Hemi block has different oil returns from the wedge, among other
things.  You *can* fit Hemi heads on a wedge, but it takes some welding
and fiddling.
                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 03:58:33 1993
Subject: Re: 914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6478
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> limiter. The stock intake was an aluminum 2BBL job that looked pretty
-> lame, but I'm sure there's something that'd take a little Holley 390
-> 4BBL out there.

 Offenhauser makes a 4bbl intake for the 215 V8.  Huffaker makes a Weber
intake.  Oldsmobile made a *turbocharged* version of the 215; too bad
the CR was 10:1.
  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 04:04:32 1993
Subject: Unleaded == White Gas?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6479
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [First and foremost, of course, Coleman wants to sell their expensive
-> little cans of fuel.  More or less 100% naptha.  I could imagine real
-> concerns being in the area of additive packages that might leave
-> enough deposits to clog the generator and perhaps the butane and/or
-> propane added to aid cold starting

 Would there be any realistic health concerns about burning gasoline in
an enclosed space, like a tent or small camper?  Considering tetraethyl
lead, MTBE, and Baud alone knows what else in the fuel?   Smoke or
smell?
                          
[I was speaking strictly of "white gas".  Leaded gas, especially that
good old stuff we used to be able to buy that rattled as it went in
the tank, would clog a generator in a single tank..  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 04:08:43 1993
Subject: Hemis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6480
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Has anybody (OEM, 3rd party manufacturer, hotrodder) ever designed
-> hemispherical heads for use on the more common Chevy small blocks
-> and/or the Windsor Fords?

 Let's see... there were the Crane/Moser 4-valve Chevy heads back in the
'60s, Arao Chevy and Ford four valve heads now, Weslake Chevy heads in
the '60s, four valve DOHC Ford racing heads... but those were all
pentroof chamber, basically.  The hemispherical combustion chamber
allows you to get great honking big valves in the engine, but a four
valve head can flow more air.  The big valves in the hemis are also
heavy, as are the pistons, which require large domes for any reasonable
compression.

 The combustion chamber of a hemi isn't real great, either.  Looks like
a pair of bent Ray-Bans.  The hemi chamber also lacks squish, which has
been proven to aid efficiency.  The reason the hemis dominate in the
fueler classes is due to the large chamber area allowing lots of
cooling to minimize detonation.  Don't need efficiency on nitromethane
with a 10-71 on top.

 Oddly, hemispherical chambers are quite popular on smaller engines.
The little Honda motorcycle engines used them from the late '50s all the
way up until the four valve engines in the early '80s.  Older Toyota
engines preferred the hemispherical chamber, and (oddly) my Mazda 2000cc
pickup motor is a hemi.
     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 04:13:25 1993
Subject: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6481
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 	All state inspections will now test the dynamic
> emissions of all vehicles, instead of static emissions,
> and this will be accomplished with new emissions testing
> dynometers. (But will they also give a free horsepower
> and torque output reading as well, we wonder...)
> 
> 	The inspection, which is already being tested in
> one or two areas, is a four minute test, where a car is
> "driven" at 55MPH on the dynometer, and the emissions are
> constantly monitored. If at ANY time the emissions go above
> the targeted level, the car fails, and the test stops.

So how are they gonna deal with 4WD vehicles?  Extra sets of
adjustable wheelbase rollers?

Also, I seem to remember seeing somewhere that some tire companies
were saying that tires that were used on dynos were'nt safe to use on
the street.  I think this might have been dealing with motorcycles,
but I would assume that the same heat problems would exist for cars.
Granted these aren't exactly full power runs...


--
Joseph P. Cernada	AIT, Inc.
914/347-6860		50 Executive Blvd.
cernada@ait.com		Elmsford, New York 10523

[They're not talking about full throttle running or high speed.  Just
a simulated city driving cycle.  I haven't yet seen the specs but
I suspect they'll use one of the EPA's standard cycles.  I've heard
the dynos are only rated to 150 hp.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!shadow.ait.com!cernada (Joseph P. Cernada)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 04:16:49 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6482
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu writes:
> 
>       Up here in New Jersey, where the air isn't so sweet
> as it used to be, and oxygenated gas is already being pumped
> into many gas tanks around the state (and you can be sure
> my gas mileage will drop 3-5 MPG), there is a new state law
> being proposed and tested, which is basically the following:
> 

   Excuse me while I go outside and kiss the ground I walk on ;-).  In 
Minnesota we've had static inspections for two years now, and most of the 
complaining has subsided.  I'm sure this would not be the case if we had 
mandated inspections like in other parts of the country, such as New Jersey, 
California, and Georgia.

   I would like to know the process leading up to these strict inspections.
Currently, cars 1975 and older do not have to be inspected (in MN).  This is 
rationalized (by the state, no less) in that fewer than 5 percent of the cars
on the road fall in this category, and the number is dropping every year.  I 
guess most of these cars are beaters on their way out.

   Did your respective states originally have much more lenient emissions
testing policies?  I think I remember someone from CA stating that emissions
testing happened semi-annually.  Did it start out bi-annually or anything like
that?  I'm curiuous, obviously, because I don't want to suffer the same fate.

Whatever info you've got, I'd appreciate hearing about.  Thanks.

Paul

----------
Posted by: Paul Olson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 04:22:16 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6483
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


        Well I guess I am living in hot-rod heaven here in OR.
The state runs DEQ test stations and requires bi-yearly inspections
only on vehicles in the most populated areas. The areas affected are
going to get bigger this year tho.

The real nice part here is that no inspections are required for autos
older than 20 years.  I haven't heard of our legislators/slime
considering a change in this area yet.

I am under the general impression that this 20 year rule is not a
very common thing across the country.  True? / False?

Works out nice now, since everything before '73 was pre-smog stuff
anyway.

-Kevin

[The current situation here in Ga is any car 12 or more years old is
exempt.  They're apparently going to change that with this new program.
Fortunately I'll be gone by then.  Back to TN.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 20:33:41 1993
Subject: Re:  Hemis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6484
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Being a true Ford man, and kind of a young hotrodder, could someone tell me 
the make up of the Hemi heads?  Why they are so special or what the HEMIsphere
has to do with them?  Maybe one day I can use some of their importance in a 
new head design of my own.  Thanks.
Tom McClendon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

Maybe these are ignorant questions, but ignorance preceeds learning.  Right? :)

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 20:43:02 1993
Subject: Tech Compression Ratio vs. Horsepower Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6485
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I have technical type / theoretical question regarding compression ratios and
there effects on power output.  

What I don't seem to understand is why a higher compression ratio produced more 
horsepower.  Not the fact that more fuel is compressed per stroke.  When one
takes 455 CI and compresses it 8:1 it puts out less horses than when its
compressed 10:1 (just a general ex. not specifically the 455 set and/or piston
design).  

The same amount of fuel and O2 is present, so where does the extra HP come
from?  Does this promote better combustion and if so how does one compute
the bennifit?  

Thanks again everyone for the help,

SJRD

----------
Posted by: emory!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!bphdarcy (Sean J. Roc D'Arcy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 20:48:45 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6486
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well, here in MA, the same requirements that are being pushed into CA are
going to be attempted to be made here in '95.  All cars back to '66 must pass
emissions, and everything will be state run and on a dyno for dynamic testing.
Hopefully this won't happen, but it looks like it probably will.  I already
know 5 people selling their cars due to this and going for older ones, as
it is impossible to put the cars into the new EPA rules at a reasonable cost.
As it is, my car doesn't do bad on emissions at all (it passes eaisly) and
doesn't have cats on it, but if I put the cats on, I have to put the factory
one on, and there goes the dual exhaust.  I wanted to put on dual aftermarket
cats but they won't go for that (at least the last time I talked with the
registry.)

I know that when I bought my car, it was already hacked up (headers, dual
exhaust - no cats, etc.)  To replace just the exhaust with factory stuff like
the new laws say would have cost so much as to make buying the car useless.
But, since my fiancee wants me to keep the car, I may just pull the drivetrain
out and replace it with a stock one out of a totalled car or something.
Anyone want to buy a very hi-po small block Chevy 350, complete with wrapped
headers, 2 1/2" pipes and Flowmasters for a 70-81 Camaro?  :) :) :)

So, I guess it's time to go get my '55 Chevy now, right? :)  Anyone got one
forsale cheap?  I'm looking for a '55 two door hard top, body and floors in not
too bad shape, drivetrain doesn't matter (doesn't even have to have one.) I
figure it'll make a good home for my blown big-block... :)

-- Steve, just adding my $0.02

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 20:54:37 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6487
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Paul Olson writes:
>   Did your respective states originally have much more lenient emissions
>testing policies?  I think I remember someone from CA stating that emissions
>testing happened semi-annually.  Did it start out bi-annually or anything like
>that?  I'm curiuous, obviously, because I don't want to suffer the same fate.


California started with essentially what we have now - inspection
occurs every two years.  Originally, inspection was only required
if you garaged it in a heavily populated area, and there were lots of
exemptions - any fuel other than gasoline, GVW over 8500 pounds,
"public service" departments (e.g., the police), etc. were exempt.

Most recently, most of the exemptions have gone away.  The only ones
left that I know of are Diesel and public service, and the Diesel
one is on its way out.  Inspection is required regardless of location
within the state.

There is also talk of requiring annual inspections.

There have been changes in the limitations on the program.  Originally,
if there had been no tampering with the vehicle then you had to spend
a maximum of $50 trying to correct the problem.  Now, the limit is
a function of the age of the vehicle and it ranges from either $50
or $60 as a minimum (I have seen both and I suspect that $60 is a typo)
to $450 for the newest cars.

Also, there is talk that since the EPA has declared motor oil to be
a hazardous substance that you would have to get any oil leaks fixed
also.  I don't know of any practical seals that don't leak at least
a tiny bit so this would appear to mean that every car would require
an annual expenditure in the "leak fixing" arena.

The California legislature was somewhat slow in implementing inspections
in the first place.  The legislooters realized that the program would be
unpopular but they were greedy for the federal highway money.

Bob Hale             hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 20:59:47 1993
Subject: Re: Oxygen sensors and DIY instrumentation 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6488
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

   Could you explain exactly what you mean when you say 'short' the 
output of the O2 sensor.  Do you mean right to ground?  Are you
talking about when you physically have access to the leads of the
sensor and simply haphazardly short it? :-)

				- David (shorty@helios.nevada.edu)

----------
Posted by: emory!nevada.edu!shorty
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 21:03:36 1993
Subject: Re:  Hemi Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6489
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>But the real deal we found was with a place called STAGE V.  The guy
>who owns the place is a real gear-head engineering type who is very
>friendly.  He offers various wedge blocks, kits, and heads that he shows

Can you get a phone number /address and E-mail them to me at:
OADDAB@stdvax.gsfc.nasa.gov

Thanks 
Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 21:08:07 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6490
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>   Did your respective states originally have much more lenient emissions
>testing policies?  I think I remember someone from CA stating that emissions
>testing happened semi-annually.  Did it start out bi-annually or anything like
>that?  I'm curiuous, obviously, because I don't want to suffer the same fate.
>
???  I don't know who may have said that, but CA testing is every two years.  
(bicentifortnightly? :-)  When I moved to CA in '83, testing was done by one 
company under contract to the state, but only when the car changed ownership.  
The test was done on a roller setup, I don't know whether the rollers loaded 
the engine or were free-running.  (I would think they were loading the engine, 
free-running would be stupid.)  The lines were incredibly long at the test 
station.  Everyone who had ever been tested hated the system.  I don't even 
want to think how lousy this system would be for testing every two years.  :-(  
Competition has led to very good service at good prices with the independent 
testing stations.  The most I've ever had to wait is about 15 minutes, normally 
I can drive straight into a test bay.

>Posted by: Paul Olson 

David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 21:13:14 1993
Subject: taboo stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6491
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm not sure I believe that a car wit cats can run as good as one without.
Case in point- A friend with a 90 GT 5.0 with GT-40 heads, intake, bigger
injectors, 3.55 rear, long tube headers etc., removed the cats and ran
a 12.9. When the news about the dyno testing hit, he went out and purchased
a set of the Walker hi flow cats and installed em. The car with no other
changes ran 13.4's!! Needless to say, they came back off.

Frank

[I'd be interested in hearing the results after he retuned the engine
with the cats in place.  Not doing so is no different than any other
bolt'n'pray modification.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 21:17:04 1993
Subject: Hemis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6492
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

About non Chrysler hemi engines, you forgot to mention a Chrysler product
that was a hemi. The K car in the early 80's, when equipped with the
Mitsubishi 2.6 4cyl, had the words "2.6 Hemi" on the sides. weird, huh?

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 21:22:03 1993
Subject: air/fuel gage & other questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6493
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

greetings:
 
  i have a question for the collective knowledge-base assembled here.
i am in the process of fixing up an old nova, and wanted to have some
fun with the gages (and try to get the gages i need to help me keep the
engine in top shape).  i'm trying to get ideas so that i can plan the
budget...  (or guess what the year will be when i have the $$$ to do
it...)
 
  these questions deal with the air/fuel mix sensor (like cyberdyne's
in the summit catalog):
 - where does the sensor need to be located, ie real close to the
   engine (reporting on just one cylinder (and hoping it is
   'typical')), or can it be put down on the collector, so it would
   report on how the cylinders (as a whole) are doing?
 - how does the placement affect the accuracy/linearity (or what else?)
 - does the sensor come with a full spec sheet (ie what the voltage or
   resistance is for different a/f ratios, or can one be obtained?
 
  which leads me to the thought that brought on the questions: i want
to make a small 'gage' for a/f ratios (i don't like the look of the
cyberdyne unit), with 5 lights or led's on it:
   1) red    -> way too lean
   2) yellow -> fuel-economy cruise (slightly lean)
   3) green  -> stoich
   4) yellow -> acceleration (slightly rich)
   5) red    -> way too rich
 
  questions relating to the gage are:
 - what do you think?  other points to monitor, more 'inbetween' steps?
   i've considered an under-dash plug-in for a set of comparitors that
   could have more resolution...
 - any clues as to a good way to tie the lights (especially if i use
   led's) into the master dimmer switch?
 - ideas for 'bulletproofing' the power supply (other than regulate it
   down to ~8v to make sure you're never caught short)?
 - grades of components for under-dash environment? (ie is there an
   'auto' grade between consumer & mil-spec?)
 
  another question, this on air temperature reading: i have been in a
jeep with an out- door thermometer (i assume it's for the fuel
injection system), and was wondering how difficult it would be to
create one?  is there such a thing as a reasonably linear thermocouple
(or a thermocouple & amp pair that produce a linear result)?  i'm
hoping to do better than  'go to k-mart & rip open a digital
thermometer', but if that's really the best way to go....
 
  also, i was considering buying some extra senders and using a bunch
of comparitors to test for excessive conditions (over temperature &
pressure for tranny,...) and wire-or-ing them together to one big idiot
light (but no gague).  thoughts/comments on this?  (perhaps a switch to
re-use a gage (electrical) for water/oil/tranny temp & oil/tranny
pressure?)
 
later (and thanks in advance),
kc

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 21:53:48 1993
Subject: Re: Random Buick turbo car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6494
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

X-News: skitzo.dseg.ti.com alt.hotrod:3886

>	In a local used-car lot, there sits a Buick Century Turbo (yes, you
>read that right).  The hood has the GN bulge and the 3.8 badges on it.  I
>don't know spit about this car, but if it does indeed have the 3.8 turbo
>motor, then I'm tempted to buy it and play.
>
>	Anybody have anything good/bad to say about this car?  Gotchas?  Things
>to watch out for?  Value?
>
>Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)

The car is junk, don't wast your time.  It will have the old carb. pull thru
turbo.  This engine cannot even compare to last GN's and T Types.


----------
Posted by: EILAND 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 21:57:46 1993
Subject: Re: Interesting tidbit from the car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6495
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> understanding that the new Camaro engine doesn't get "pulled", it
-> gets "dropped".  It must come out the bottom of the car.

 If so, that's not particularly unusual.  I've owned AMC products where
the engine had to be removed from underneath.  Just drop the tierod and
crossmember and let 'er down.

 The early Capris let you pull the engine out the bottom if you wished.
A couple of times I drove the car up on ramps, removed the crossmember
and rack, dropped the motor with a floor jack, and dragged it out from
underneath.  It saved $50 to rent a hoist.
                                                                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 22:02:59 1993
Subject: Re:914
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6496
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [Ok, guys.  Truce.  JGD]

 Whoops.  Plain old ASCII is great for basic communication, but
sometimes nuances get lost.  I can always go to rec.autos.tech and find
plenty of feebs to flame when the urge hits.  I'm on my good behavior
here, but maybe I'm a bit abrupt sometimes.

 It's a bit hard to predict what will set some people off.  For example,
I was once on certain person's Fox-body mustang list.  For a couple of
weeks, anyway.  Evidently something I said pissed him off.  List mail
stopped and he wouldn't reply to e-mail.  Hokay, that happens
sometimes.  ;-|  Last night I got a message from one of the users here
on chaos - he'd tried to join the list, and got a reply composed of
insults and flames.  Evidently the list's pocket Hitler intends to lock
out all mail from chaos.

 I really wish I knew what I did to start all that.  I'd save it off
into a file to reuse when I *really* wanted to flame someone.


 Anyway, back to Fieros:  The original concept of the Fiero was
practically identical to the FIAT X1/9 - that is, a mid engined, two
seat sports car based on inexpensive FWD components stolen a normal
production automobile.  Like the FIAT, the Fiero came to market too
heavy, too underpowered, and too overpriced.  The entire concept of the
Fiero (as detailed in various articles in the SAE magazine) was for it
to be cheap to make.  I'm sure it was.  Pontiac claimed the Fiero lost
money, but that has to be paper shuffling money, not real money.

 The Fiero used the X-car (Citation) transaxle and four cylinder engine.
There was nothing wrong with the engine other than being too small and
not suitable for performance use, but the transaxle was a problem - GM
recalled tens of thousands of them for cracked trans cases, and at one
time was facing a class-action lawsuit.  The front suspension borrowed
heavily from the recently-defunct Chevette.  This sort of parts mismatch
resulted in oddities like having small solid rotor discs in front and
much larger vented disks in back, and truly weird brake proportioning.

 The "space frame" chassis was probably the reason for the car's hefty
weight.  It is basically not one, but two steel bodies welded together
with large "lightening holes."  The "body" was a set of plastic panels
attached without shims or provision for alignment - Pontiac had a giant
multispindle milling machine that cut all of the dozens of
chassis mounting surfaces simultaneously, which gave perfect alignment
of all body panels without shims, so unskilled labor could just slap
them on.  Great, except for a few minor details.  The "space frame" uses
at nearly as much metal as a conventional steel unibody, plus the extra
weight of the plastic panels.  The welds connecting the "space frame"
panels together burned off the galvanizing, causing rust to start at
each spot weld.  The hollow area between the steel panels collected
condensation, road grunge, salt, and whatever, then kept it in a nice
humid environment to do its best for rusting the whole thing through.

 The no-shim routine was fine for assembly, but Fieros were no more
immune to fender-benders than anything else.  Once the chassis was
pranged, straightening it became a nightmare.  On a normal frame
machine, pulling the chassis back straight would pop the inner and outer
"space frame" sections apart, and often pull other sections out of
alignment.  Of course, they couldn't be adjusted either.  Having seen
several Fieros in the junkyards, it appears the commonest method of
"repair" is to simply beat the snot out of the chassis with a sledge
hammer until any high spots are down, then shim the new body panels with
washers.

 Without the horsepower or handling to back up its original market, the
Fiero was downgraded from a "sports car" to a "specialty" car.  I have
my suspicions there was a little infighting between GM divisions.  Chevy
has always been jealous of the Corvette's slot in the corporate lineup.
If Pontiac had dipped into some different parts bins the Fiero would
have been a fair rendition of the abandoned mid-engine 2-rotor Corvette
prototype.

 Later on Pontiac managed to wedge the 2.8 Chevy V6 into the Fiero.  It
was a service nightmare.

 In all honesty, my detailed knowledge of the Fiero stops there.  I'm
aware Pontiac did some serious improvements later on.


 The Fiero is not a good candidate for an engine swap.  The 2.8 is
practically a press fit.  To get anything larger in there you'd have to
lop out the firewall and move the seats forward.  The Fiero cockpit is
small already.  Dropping in the later 3.1 SFI engine from a Beretta and
adding a turbo would probably work OK.

 If you wanted to get wild with the torch you could certainly swap in a
455 Olds or 500 Caddy on the Toro/Eldo transaxle where the engine
actually sits centered between the wheels instead of ahead of them, or
even core it out and go front engine, but you're talking about a Zinger
here.  You can put anything in anything if you're willing to cut enough.
                                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 22:09:06 1993
Subject: Dodge turbo IV motor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6497
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I friend of mine has the Dodge Spirit R/T. This has the most powerful dodge
2.2 in recent years. 16 valves, DOHC, turbo, engineered by Lotus, and 224 hp.

The only problem is that it seems to have worse-than-typical british
reliability. He has broken 4 timing belts in 58k miles. He got the oil pump
shaft replaced (due to the dodge recall), and recently the 'new, improved'
shaft broke. He shut it down right away, and dodge replaced the shaft.

The third or fourth timing belt put in was supposed to be the 'new
improved' belt.

I spoke to a dodge insider friend of mine, and he says that the timing
belt problem is due to Lotus. He also said that the oil pump shaft
problem is related to the turbo IV not having a distributor.

I have a 2.2 turbo II, as does a friend of mine. They seem pretty
reliable. There were no problems until over 100k miles.

My friend with the Spirit R/T had a turbo I, which lasted 190k miles
with no engine problems (except 1 timing belt broke).

So I suggest that nobody buy a turbo IV motor until the bugs get
worked out. A real shame, as it looks quite nice.

My friend is trying to get rid of the car, using the CA 'Lemon Law'.
No luck so far.

	Jeff turbo Deifik	jdeifik@isi.edu		turbo@isi.edu

----------
Posted by: Jeff Deifik 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 22:13:48 1993
Subject: RE: Hemis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6498
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>-> Has anybody (OEM, 3rd party manufacturer, hotrodder) ever designed
>-> hemispherical heads for use on the more common Chevy small blocks
>-> and/or the Windsor Fords?
>
> Let's see... there were the Crane/Moser 4-valve Chevy heads back in the
>'60s, Arao Chevy and Ford four valve heads now, Weslake Chevy heads in
>the '60s, four valve DOHC Ford racing heads... but those were all
>pentroof chamber, basically.  The hemispherical combustion chamber
>allows you to get great honking big valves in the engine, but a four
>valve head can flow more air.  The big valves in the hemis are also
>heavy, as are the pistons, which require large domes for any reasonable
>compression.

Ford had a SOHC 427 - what's the story on the DOHC racing heads?  Oh
although still a Chrysler hemi there was an experimental DOHC Hemi.  It
was cancelled at the same time the heavily handicapped SOHC 427 was 
outlawed in NASCAR (or what ever it was called in around '67).  I also
remember a very radical Pontiac Ram AirV head - geared toward Trans Am 
racing - but Pontiac never got it to work better than a porter Ram Air IV.

> The combustion chamber of a hemi isn't real great, either.  Looks like
>a pair of bent Ray-Bans.  The hemi chamber also lacks squish, which has
>been proven to aid efficiency.  The reason the hemis dominate in the
>fueler classes is due to the large chamber area allowing lots of
>cooling to minimize detonation.  Don't need efficiency on nitromethane
>with a 10-71 on top.

Thats 14-71 in Top Fuel.  I thought the spark plug in (near) the middle didn't
 require "squish".  I don't think 4-valves have much. Piston shape is another 
matter.  I don't think the dome shrouds the plug though.
In the faster nitro hemis they, use 2 sparkplugs (maximum of two
distributers)  This lets them decrease the initial spark advance from
about 60 deg BTDC to something like 30-40 degress (I guess nitro burns
real slow).  Kinda makes me wonder what could be done with dual plugs
on gas.  If you can fire two coils from one set of points/electronics
(so that the spark happens at almost the same time) you ought to be able 
to really cut back on the advance - faster burn(effectively) and less 
wasted during the piston's rise.  Wonder if you'd even notice the 
difference.  Didn't some Nissan/Datson use dual spark plugs?

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 22:19:53 1993
Subject: RE: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6499
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 	All state inspections will now test the dynamic
> emissions of all vehicles, instead of static emissions,
> and this will be accomplished with new emissions testing
> dynometers. (But will they also give a free horsepower
> and torque output reading as well, we wonder...)
> 
> 	The inspection, which is already being tested in
> one or two areas, is a four minute test, where a car is
> "driven" at 55MPH on the dynometer, and the emissions are
> constantly monitored. If at ANY time the emissions go above
> the targeted level, the car fails, and the test stops.

My understanding is it requires an engine load to see the difference
between a car with good vs bad catastrophic converters.  I think we've
all heard the stories about cars actually doing better without cats on
the idle portion of an emission test.

So now, as long as I don't touch the evaporative controls, can I make
any changes as long as I pass the test?  Sounds to me like I could build
my own closed loop fuel injection (perhaps one sensor per cylinder) and
pass any test they can think of.  That of course assumes the sensor work
at the air/fuel ratio required for that particular emission test.

This all comes back to an earlier question.  How does one get carb
certification.  Could I build my own engine and get it certified as a
package?  If so would I have to list every part number?  And finally 
what if I use a custom/ homemade intak manifold?

[The basic idea is to dilute the exhaust flow until the bad guys are
below the econazi trigger point.  In the beginning this was easy - 
just pump extra air into the exhaust system.  I built a system for
a guy who was moving to Ca many years ago that did just that.  An
AIR pump driven through an electric clutch pumped a bunch of air into
the exhaust whenever engaged.  Best part is the flow is proportional
to engine speed so no controls required.  

Then they went to the 4-gas system designed to catch this.  The 4-gas
system has 4 analyzer channels, one of which is CO2.  The analyzer looks
at the ratio of CO2 to CO and O to make sure no post-combustion 
dilution is happening.  This can still be fooled by simply introducing 
a metered amount of CO2 in with the excess air stream.  Now you see why
an analyzer will be necessary.  I can envision a system whereby
the CO2 is metered through something similar to a propane carb.

It becomes a question of whether it is easier to do this or to simply
have a smog engine laying around to swap in for inspection.  Since
Atlanta's inspection interval is going to be 2 years, it would certainly
be within the scope of what I'd be willing to do to swap a smog motor
in every two years.  Heck, I have the motor out of my car more often
than that anyway :-)  'Course when you pull your slammed and tubed
Camaro into the booth with a 100 hp wheezer under the hood, the 
inspection guy's gonna at least raise an eyebrow :-)  JGD]

Would CARB certification mean It was legal through-out the states?

What about home-built cars.  Last time I talked to the EPA/DOT they
just ignore home-built cars (I was asking in reference to Cobra Kit
Cars).  In Maryland they would be registered as home-built 1993 (assuming
you completed it in '93).  You simply build the car and trailer it to 
the central MVA (after setting up an appointment).  A couple of police
officers check to see if the car is safe (whatever that means - probably
a quick drive around town :-) and then they issue you a title/registration.
No one ever said anything about passing the bi-yearly smog check.

One last thing.  Does anyone remember the story about a blown 427 '69
Comaro.  Seems he could easily pass the sniffer test up to 1984 standards
but failed the underhood inspection until he proved that the engine was
a '67 and the swap was done sometime before 1984 (or whatever that drop
dead date was).  It seems that the draw-through design mixed the air/fuel
mixture so well + the high energy ignition and tight sealing motor - 
resulted in a very clean burn (at least at idle).

Wonder if you can sue the Californian government for enacting / enforcing
a law that  leads to higher emissions and therefor
1) increases your health risk (just ask the EPA)
2) Risks federal funding - since the excess smog p*sses the EPA off.

Hey, how bout this
Unreasonable search and seizure: since they have external methods to 
determine weather you are in compliance with EPA regulations - why should
they be able to look under the hood?

And how do all these cars that I see - belching god awful smoke - get by?

What we need is a cheap way to certifie hot rods.  You know a local testing
station that can run the gambit of EPA test (appropriate for the year of
the car) and simply say pass or indicate where you failed.  Then certify
your combination - whatever it maybe.

And one last thing
In Maryland they have a minumum HC level.  So if I make my car super
efficient (ie. no unburnt HC - redundant I think) I fail.

OK one more thing
What if I convert to diesel.  I'm then exempt from testing.  And then I
convert back to gas. In Maryland once your alternative fuel you never
have to prove it again ( I almost bought an Olds diesel just for this 
reason)

OK I'm done

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 22:28:29 1993
Subject: Switch to turn off Alternator
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6500
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a GM type alternator with an internal regulator. Ther are 3 wires that 
run to it. One is the big one that recharges the battery and the 
other 2 that connect in a little clip. I have heard that you can put
a switch in one of the 2 wires that will turn off the alternator,
therefore eliminating the drag of the alternator for a short time or 
however long it takes to run 1/4 mile :-).

Well now that I have said all that does anybody know which 
wire I want to put the switch in.

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
romansks@unvax.union.edu  |  Time flies like an arrow
                          |  Fruit flies like a banana
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Steve Romanski 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 22:32:26 1993
Subject: Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6501
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	I'm doing a 406 using the olds rod. I've been lead to believe that
a "small base circle cam" will not hit the rod bolts when used in this
combination. (Without grinding down the rod bolt heads)

	1. Is this a truth? Can I use small base circle cam and
		avoid grinding rod bolt heads?

	2. What is the base circle diameter of a small base circle cam?
		(I have a roller cam in another engine I'd consider using
		but I don't yet have it out to measure)

	3. If I have to grind, do all rods get it, or only a few?

Thanks...
	

Derek J. Pietro
Picker International
derekp@stdavids.picker.com (work)
sloride.uucp!derekp	(home)

----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Sep 22 22:36:27 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6502
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 
[stuff deleted]

>    Excuse me while I go outside and kiss the ground I walk on ;-).  In 
> Minnesota we've had static inspections for two years now, and most of the 
> complaining has subsided.  I'm sure this would not be the case if we had 
> mandated inspections like in other parts of the country, such as New Jersey, 
> California, and Georgia.
> 
>    I would like to know the process leading up to these strict inspections.
> Currently, cars 1975 and older do not have to be inspected (in MN).  This is 
> rationalized (by the state, no less) in that fewer than 5 percent of the cars
> on the road fall in this category, and the number is dropping every year.  I 
> guess most of these cars are beaters on their way out.

[more stuff deleted]

   Well, I guess this is one advantage of living in the middle of nowhere.
Here in Kentucky there are no laws/regulations of this type.

Larry

----------
Posted by: Larry Estep 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 00:22:03 1993
Subject: how hemi heads work
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6503
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The hemi head in cross section is sort of triangle.  The top of the piston is
pyramid shaped, the piston pokes up very high into the head.  The intake and
exhaust valves are extremely canted.  The roof of the combustion chamber is
mostly just two giant valve faces.  You can see just looking at a
cross-sectional view of it that it's super easy to get massive amounts of
fuel/air into the chamber and super easy to pump the exhaust out.  The reason
that they quit making the hemi engines for production cars is that it was too
expensive to set up the tooling for tI just saw an article about it recently
in one of the mags.

	I saw some old deSotos, Dodges and Chryslers at a little local car
show last weekend.  The hemi engine is huge!  It's about three feet wide. 
One of the cars had a setup with twin super long intake manifolds which went
from the left head to beyond the right head and vice versa -- the intake
runners must have been 18" long, criss-crossing across the engine.  I guess
that was sort of an early tunnel ram, laid over sideways, one carburetor over
one tire and the other over the other tire.  Those Chrysler 300s are worth
some massive dough now.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 11:47:38 1993
Subject: Hemis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6504
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> About non Chrysler hemi engines, you forgot to mention a Chrysler
-> product that was a hemi. The K car in the early 80's, when equipped
-> with the Mitsubishi 2.6 4cyl, had the words "2.6 Hemi" on the sides.
-> weird, huh?

 Chrysler sold lots of Hemis in Australia back in the '60s.  Said
"Chrysler Hemi" right on the fender.

 Too bad they were straight sixes...
                                                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 12:01:41 1993
Subject: Spark Plugs 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6505
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I remember reading an article on how to get an extra 3-5 hp by putting your
spark plugs into the cylinder head with the gap (or the opening) facing down
directly into the cylinder.
Does this make sense?

The reason I ask is because I plan to have the heads of my 351W off this
weekend and when I go to put the spark plugs back in, why don't I just make
sure they are aligned with the gap facing down and get an extra 3-5 hp while
I am at it.  Sounds like free hp to me.

I read the article a long time ago and can't remember it correctly, but my
question(s): 1) do I want the gap facing down? (I assume down, but I don't
remember) and 2) what do I do when I tighten the spark plug and it is not
facing down?  Do I use a regular washer between the spark plug & the cylinder
hoping to work my way around the mismatched thread?  I guess different
thickness washers would be in order (or maybe just shave them down to the
right size).  Is this the proper way to do it?  How safe is it?  (i don't
want the thin washers cracking apart and having my spark plugs slowly work
their way out of the cylinder heads)

Has anyone tried this?  Sounds like a fairly easy task (and inexpensive, which
is a major plus).  Of course 3-5 hp isn't much; but it is better than
nothing.

----------
Posted by: emory!shell.portal.com!duel
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 12:06:40 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6506
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Larry>    Well, I guess this is one advantage of living in the middle of
Larry> nowhere.  Here in Kentucky there are no laws/regulations of this
Larry> type.

You said it.  No inspections whatsoever here in Kansas.

I own a retied police cruiser -- an '89 LTD Crown Vic with a 351W.  It
has dual cats on it but appears to be missing most of the other
pollution control hacks that you might find on an '89 car.  So does
anyone know if police departments are exempt from the EPA regs?  I
wonder if I would be able to take this car to eco-nazi-controlled CA.

(I would love to get a hold of one of the police ``interceptor''
models with a 429 or a 460.)

-- Chris.
(ch@lks.csi.com)

----------
Posted by: Christopher Hoover 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 18:46:36 1993
Subject: StageV contact
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6507
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>>But the real deal we found was with a place called STAGE V.  The guy
>>who owns the place is a real gear-head engineering type who is very
>>friendly.  He offers various wedge blocks, kits, and heads that he shows
>
>Can you get a phone number /address and E-mail them to me at:
>OADDAB@stdvax.gsfc.nasa.gov

I figured the list might want to know anyway so here it is:

(Eric Hanson)
Stage V Engineering
Walnut, California
714-594-8383

I forgot to mention another popular route by local drag racers "Indy" heads...
for RB mopar...

Herb McCandless Performance
Graham, North Carolina
919-578-3682

Cheers,
jC.
_________________________________________________________
James C. Akers         FiberCom, Inc.        Roanoke, VA
jca@fibercom.com     uunet!fibercom!jca     (703)342-6700

----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James C. Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 18:56:06 1993
Subject: Re:  Switch to turn off Alternator
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6508
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The fat red wire on the connector is the sense and power for the 
regulator and field winding. If you cut it off, there'll be no
current drawn or sourced and no mechanical load except friction.
The little black wire is for the idiot light.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:08:27 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6509
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>
>From news.itd.umich.edu!destroyer!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!emory!rsiatl!hotrod Thu Sep 23 09:42:51 1993
>Article: 3788 of alt.hotrod
>
>
>>	I have been (seriously!) considering putting together a hemi
>>engine, and maybe sticking it in an old Charger (nice cars, I might
>>add). Of course, my brother thinks I'm crazy.
>
>I have dreams too... its my wallet thats laughing at me :-)

Me three!

>
>>	However, the only hemi heads I know of are the Keith Black
>>Aluminum heads, which are in the $1700-$2000 range each. I'm going
>>eventually find out if Mopar is also casting new iron heads, which
>>I don't doubt.

They are.  You can buy a crate Hemi for around $10K, I believe.  It
is expensive because Chrysler doesn't make big blocks anymore, and
contracted out to the original manufacturer (assembly plant) of
the 426 hemi.  It was expensive then, and is expensive
now, no big surprise.

>
>You can still buy bare Hemi heads through Hemings - about $1000 a piece.
>Figure another $1000 on machine work and parts - specially on old rusty

A buddy of mine was just at the mopar swap meet at Mopar Nationals -
a vendor was selling a pair of heads - rebuilt, complete, with valve
covers for $1500.  Yes, I would have bought them immediately.

>>sure, that somebody (Keith Black?) still makes the 6-pack manifold,
>>which is also has a walloping price of over $1000.
>

The 6 pack setups are $1000 for manifold, carbs, linkage, etc, for
LA, B, and RB engines only - no hemis.

>Oh yeah what about valve covers?  You need some kind of tube to contain
>the spark plug / wire.

Easy to obtain from Chrysler, or from Year One.

>
>Hemi's never came stock with a six-pack but you can get a cross-ram which
>in theory would allow any top.
>
>So lets see
>$2500 block
>$1000 crank - if the gods are nice
>$1000 connecting rods - your probably going to get carrillos
>$600  pistons
>$400  assemble/ balance/ machine 
>$2000 heads
>$1000 parts and machining for heads
>$1000 valve train / oiling system / other little stuff
>$1000 for ignition / fuel system - maybe even some headers
>______
>$10,500
>
>Please tell me I'm wrong.

Close - I'd say you might as well pick up the crate motor.

People who race hemis around here say you're better off
picking up a new block and new crank - no reason to risk
wasting your engine on an abused old crank (especially) or
block.  I'd probably trust the heads if I could eyeball them
carefully and get them at a reasonable price.

>

Paul

----------
Posted by: emory!umich.edu!Paul.H.Anderson
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:19:12 1993
Subject: Re:  Hemis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6510
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Being a true Ford man, and kind of a young hotrodder, could someone tell me 
>the make up of the Hemi heads?  Why they are so special or what the HEMIsphere
>has to do with them?  Maybe one day I can use some of their importance in a 
>new head design of my own.  Thanks.
>Tom McClendon
>gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

Hemi is of course short for HEMIspherical as in combustion chamber.  The 
best way to describe it is half-a-tennis ball.  What does this buy you?  
Well, on a wedge-head engine your maximum valve size (intake + exhaust) is
limited be the bore of the engine (plus some valve notches in the 
block).  This is true because the valve stems are parralel.  If your trying
to place the valves on a sphere you can no longer keep the valve stems
parralel.  The more the valves are tilted the larger the valves can be.  
There are still trade offs.  Tilting the valves increases the chance of 
valves coliding with each other (especiallly on high lift - high overlap
cam profiles).
An additional benefit is the placement of the spark plug.  It can be placed
almost in the center of the cylinder head allowing for a more even flame
travel.

The problems are this - it requires more complex valve train - currently 
chrysler 426 Hemi derivatives have instability problems past 9000 rpm.  It
may limit the size and shape of you intake ports - got get around those
push-rods.  Weird piston shapes - cause problems with flame front - flat
top is best if you can get the compression you need.  

All in all hemi is better than wedge (in theory) and 4-valve is better 
than hemi.  Since hemi's are definitly high rpm oriented a 4-valve would
probably be the way to go.  You get more power (less valve train drag and 
better air-flow, and more radical cam profiles).

BTW only the early Chrysler Hemis were true Hemi (1959 and earlier 392
style).  The later 64-71 426 Hemis had a slight bias toward the intake
(meaning the combustion chamber allowed larger intake vs. exhaust).  The
Ford 429 / Aries/ Root hemis are even more biased to the intake side.

Oh one last thing - all hemis are big.  Those cylinder heads are at least
double the size of wedge heads.

>Maybe these are ignorant questions, but ignorance preceeds learning.  Right? :)

True, but learning doesn't necessarily follow ignorance :-)

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:25:28 1993
Subject: Re: Switch to turn off Alternator
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6511
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I have a GM type alternator with an internal regulator. Ther are 3 wires that 
>run to it. One is the big one that recharges the battery and the 
>other 2 that connect in a little clip. I have heard that you can put
>a switch in one of the 2 wires that will turn off the alternator,
>therefore eliminating the drag of the alternator for a short time or 
>however long it takes to run 1/4 mile :-).
>
>Well now that I have said all that does anybody know which 
>wire I want to put the switch in.
>
>Posted by: Steve Romanski 


	 The other wires comming from the alt. are grounds. Don't ask why 
there are more than one but they basically do the samething. So by eather 
disconecting the wire to the battery or both grounds you will loose that 
extra .001 of a second.  Good Luck, every little bit helps.

[Let me scale this for everyone.  One of the future products sitting on
my waiting-for-money-to-make-it-happen shelves is what I call the 
Cordless Battery Charger.  This is a nifty little 10 lb package that
runs on gas and can charge a battery at up to 60 amps and has enough smarts
to fast charge the battery, taper off and then stop.  The prototype consists
of a 2 hp weed whacker-type engine and a 60 amp alternator.  At full 
output from the alternator, the engine is not quite fully loaded.
Remember 746 watts is a horespower and 60 amps at 13.8 volts is 828
watts or just a touch over a horsepower.  Figure in the efficiency
and 1.5-2 hp still is more than enough to drive a standard alternator.
Note that the alternator I used on my prototype is complete with its
internal fan just like it was installed on the car.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!hp.uwsuper.edu!tcullen (TARY M. CULLEN)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:31:58 1993
Subject: RE: Tech Compression Ratio vs. Horsepower Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6512
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I have technical type / theoretical question regarding compression ratios and
>there effects on power output.  
>
>What I don't seem to understand is why a higher compression ratio produced more 
>horsepower.  Not the fact that more fuel is compressed per stroke.  When one
>takes 455 CI and compresses it 8:1 it puts out less horses than when its
>compressed 10:1 (just a general ex. not specifically the 455 set and/or piston
>design).  
>
>The same amount of fuel and O2 is present, so where does the extra HP come
>from?  Does this promote better combustion and if so how does one compute
>the bennifit?  
>
>Thanks again everyone for the help,
>
>SJRD

This goes back to Thermodynamics... at least 5 years ago so go easy on the
flames.

First Horse power is the rate of work.

Work is defined as either  Force * Distance ( ie ft*lbs)

or change in potential energy - droping an object off a ladder for example
at the top of the ladder (in this case mass * gravity * height - mass is
in 'slugs', gravity in ft/sec/sec, and height in ft ; remembering that
slugs * acceloration = force or lbs. therefor it still = ft*lb

The internal combustion engine relias on the carnot cycle (pronounced 'CAR'
'NO' , spelled ?).  It has 4 legs.  First is the adiabatic compression - 
that means no heat is lost in the fluid.  Next the fluid absorbs heat from
a heat sink - this is the equivalent of igniting the mixture.  Next it
expands adiabatcally, and finally in gives off its heat.

This is equivalent to putting an empty bucket of water on a latter 
(compression), filling it with water (ignition), and dropping the bucket 
(expansion), emptying the bucket (lossing the energy).  Since the mass
of the bucket increased at the top of the latter you got more energy
out of it on the way down then you had to put into it on the way up.
To get more energy out of it you could either fill the bucket more (flow
limitations), increase gravity (neat trick), or put the bucket higher.

Increasing the bucket height is the same as increasing the compression
ration.  Yes you have to lift the empty bucket higher but the resulting
drop is much harder.

On an engine the burning gasoline can push the piston 'farther' without
having to push harder.  Sort of like getting better leverage but adding
more weight - you do more work but you don't notice it as much.

Hope this helps - hope I didn't make to many mistakes :-)
Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:38:28 1993
Subject: Hemis (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6513
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> -> About non Chrysler hemi engines, you forgot to mention a Chrysler
> -> product that was a hemi. The K car in the early 80's, when equipped
> -> with the Mitsubishi 2.6 4cyl, had the words "2.6 Hemi" on the sides.
> -> weird, huh?
> 
>  Chrysler sold lots of Hemis in Australia back in the '60s.  Said
> "Chrysler Hemi" right on the fender.
> 
>  Too bad they were straight sixes...
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

Yes, they were straight sixes  (not slant 6s) but they did have hemi
heads and with proper intake/exhaust and head work can develop about 300
horsepower.
tom root

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:43:16 1993
Subject: RE: Hemis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6514
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> remember a very radical Pontiac Ram AirV head - geared toward Trans
-> Am racing - but Pontiac never got it to work better than a porter Ram
-> Air IV.

 I have a photo of those somewhere - they're tunnel ports, very similar
to the Ford 427 and 302 Tunnel Port experiments.  I always thought the
tunnel port concept was interesting, but no manufacturer I'm aware of
has really done much with it.  Maybe the tunnel disrupts port flow more
than the straighter port helps.


->  I thought the spark plug in (near) the
-> middle didn't require "squish".  I don't think 4-valves have much.

 Most of 'em do, but it's not as radical as a wedge chamber.  A pentroof
chamber is usually square or cloverleafed, with the unused area
provising squish.

 The greater turbulence in the four valve chamber can help efficiency
too.


-> real slow).  Kinda makes me wonder what could be done with dual plugs
-> on gas.  If you can fire two coils from one set of points/electronics
-> (so that the spark happens at almost the same time) you ought to be
-> able to really cut back on the advance - faster burn(effectively) and
-> less wasted during the piston's rise.  Wonder if you'd even notice
-> the difference.  Didn't some Nissan/Datson use dual spark plugs?

 Dual plugs on gas work fine.  The Nissan NAPS-Z used them, as did some
Suzuki motorcycles.  The cost difference isn't much, but you run into
production troubles.  Depending on how your valvegear is laid out,
getting even one plug - even a teeny weeny skinny 10mm job - in there
can be a pain.  Trying to fit two can be very trying.

 Nissan did the dual plug routine for smog purposes.  Suzuki did it for
faster burn.  It let them cut back on advance.  You're on the right
track there - LESS advance is better, until power falls off.  Massive
advance is a sign of low burn rates and usually low efficiency.  Ideally
you should be firing at or after TDC to eliminate any pumping losses.
Most chambers are too big to allow this, so they fire the plug before
TDC so pressure is peaking just afterward.

 Turbulence or swirl in the chamber can help speed combustion.  That's
how the May chamber works in the Jaguar V12, and why the late Chevy four
cylinder intake ports have a corkscrew shape.

 Fuel/air mixing only *averages* stochiometric in most engines.  Even
with port injection - in some cases, particularly with port injection -
you have eddies and currents in the chamber, some at the lean misfire
point, some 'way rich.  If one of them happens to be near the plug at
ignition time you'll have a delayed ignition or no ignition at all.
High turbulence and swirl help minimize this.  Sending great thundering
lightning bolts of power and multiple sparks through the plug also help,
but you run into problems with carbon tracking the distributor cap and
rotor, breakdown of plug wires, and possibly melting the coil if a wire
goes bad.  Plus crossfire concerns.
                                                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:49:09 1993
Subject: Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6515
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I'm doing a 406 using the olds rod.

 Hey, GREAT!  I was hoping someone would try that.  Are you using the
350 rod or the 403 rod?


-> I've been lead to believe that a
-> "small base circle cam" will not hit the rod bolts when used in this
-> combination. (Without grinding down the rod bolt heads)

 There are only a few lobes that are really a problem - four, I think.
Quite a lot depends on rod shape - some of the aftermarket rods, for
example, use shorter rod bolts to minimize the problem.  Why not take an
old cam and toss in there, put in the crank, and take one rod and piston
and move it from cylinder to cylinder to scope out any interference?
When you find which lobes interfere (if any), then you can use Mr. Bench
Grinder or Mr. Moto Tool to trim the lobes until they clear.  That will
tell you what your cam's base circle will have to be.

 It'd be one or two evenings of work, but it could save you some money -
reduced base circle cams ain't cheap, and if you can get a standard cam
in there you have a much wider choice of cams.  Remember, you *can* take
small amounts off the rod or rod bolts, or even have the rods tapped and
run conventional bolts up from the bottom  (aluminum rod style) if the
bolt heads get in the way.


 Don't forget to check the rod side clearance - I never could quite get
any definite figures for that.
                                                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:55:30 1993
Subject: Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6516
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> 3. If I have to grind, do all rods get it, or only a few?

 Personally, I'd only grind the ones that need it.
                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:58:33 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6517
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <8wnzapb@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

> 	It's that time of year again, the time of year when
> politician's start playing hard at the game of "Ridiculous
> Acts for Re-election".

Unfortunately, the groundwork for this game has already been completed.
The revisions to the Clean Air Act have already been passed.

> 	All state inspections will now test the dynamic
> emissions of all vehicles, instead of static emissions,
> and this will be accomplished with new emissions testing
> dynometers. (But will they also give a free horsepower
> and torque output reading as well, we wonder...)

Essentially, the state must pass emissions laws to control this problem.
If they don't and they exceed the EPA mandated emissions levels, the
EPA draconian measures take effect.  As I understand it there are 
multiple horrors to this "solution".  One of them is _mandatory_
car pooling.  As I understand it, very hot weather will tend to cause
the levels to rise above the limit (I assume that is because hot exhaust
of most types doesn't rise and get blown away when ambient temps are high).


> 	Me, I think the age of the true hot-rod is really
> coming to an end around here, if it hasn't already (except
> for the '68 GTO hidden in the back of the garage, which is
> only driven after 2AM, when nobody will see.) Such a shame
> that I'll actually be forced to drive a little import 
> econobox...

You're right when you say around here.  I wonder if there are any laws
to keep the Japanese from enjoying all of the great old cars they are
buying up?

The cover of night may be our only salvation.  That, and switching
license plates (of course they'll probably make that a felony punishable
by more prison time than the average murderer gets..).

The only way I know of to be aware of these types of laws before they
are passed and to have a handle on this stuff is to join the National
Motorists Association.  I really do hate to make "pitches", but if
you've got a rod or older car you enjoy driving on the street, you
really need to join.

National Motorists Association               Membership: $20 student 
6678 Pertzborn Rd.                           per year    $35 everyone else
Dane, WI  53529
Phone : 1-800-882-2785


  Brian


---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com

----------
Posted by: emory!pms706.pms.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 20:03:57 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6518
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Wed, 22 Sep 93 22:03 EDT
> From:  The Hotrod List 
> 
> 

>   Well, I guess this is one advantage of living in the middle of nowhere.
>Here in Kentucky there are no laws/regulations of this type.

Unfortunately, you ain't gonna' hide from this one.  The last Clean Air
Act that Georgie signed before moving to his new house in Texas (is it
built yet :-) requires that every state have an emission inspection
that provides coverage to EPA standards.  This means the expensive NOx
analyzers and dynos.

Somewhere around '95 or '96 is the magical date, and you must have more
than just a plan.  The penalty is the typical loss of federal highway
funds.  Up here in NH, where we basically have not received any significant
highway funds for years, the Gov basically told the Feds to go pound sand.  
The state legislators are trying to do various things to get the plan
to succeed, so one day it is in, the next it is out.  I just keep
writing letters to people explaining the consequences and suggesting
alternatives.  It makes me feel better anyway.

By the way, I am all for clean running cars.  I figure that if it is
not running clean, there is more power to be made, and more frequent
stops at the gas pump.  I just want to make sure that passing an
emission test is just that, not a test to see that you still have your
factory gizmos attached.  I am also tired of exemptions for cars that
are likely to pollute more than anyone else (like state special
service vehicles that run all day, every day).

>Larry


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 20:09:41 1993
Subject: Re: Oxygen sensors and DIY instrumentation 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6519
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

--------

   In message  , you write:
 
|    Could you explain exactly what you mean when you say 'short' the 
| output of the O2 sensor.  Do you mean right to ground?  Are you
| talking about when you physically have access to the leads of the
| sensor and simply haphazardly short it? :-)
| 
| 				- David (shorty@helios.nevada.edu)

Well... yeah (red face :) ). When you put it that way, it sounds kind of
"stupid."  I don't know what the failure mode is when you do this, but I
ruined one sensor to what I attribute to an accidental shorting of the output
to ground. At the time it didn't occur to me that with the engine and
electronics off that the hot sensor was still alive.  Of the T.F.HEGO (3-wire
thick-film heated EGO sensor) I played with, all had a floating heater. So I
now just tape the leads together (out-of-the-way) after a test.

FYI: 
Speaking of failure modes, SAE paper 860478 "Poisoning of Zirconia
Exhaust Oxygen Sensors by Silica" has some interesting information.  A while
back someone asked why their EGO had a negative output voltage. One
possibility is silicon poisoning. Poisoning on the air reference port of the
sensor can cause the lean and rich voltages of the sensor to decrease.  The
output can even go negative. Poisoning on the exhaust electrode will cause an
increase in the overall output voltage for a given air-fuel ratio.  The first
can occur if silicone rubbers are used in areas near the sensor which get too
hot.  ie: don't put a protective silicone rubber boot around your sensor :).
The latter exhaust electrode poisoning has been link to two sources: 
(1) Gasoline. Outbreaks of sensor poisoning have been observed in Detroit and
northern Florida were Silicon levels as high as 500ppm have been confirmed in
the gasoline.  (2) RTV form-in-place gaskets.  If an RTV gives off excessive
silicone containing volatiles, they can be absorbed by the engine oil which
revolatilizes when the engine heats up. The vapors are drawn into then
combustion chamber through the PCV system and silica formed.

                                       John S Gwynne
                                          Gwynne.1@osu.edu

----------
Posted by: John S Gwynne 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 20:15:19 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-36*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6520
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, my favorite bartender, and the nice folks at TNN.  PLEASE 
confirm dates and times with your local listings before setting your 
VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

Cycle World                           9/23     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     9/23     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
IOGP POWERBOATS, SOUTH BEND (T)       9/23     2:30-3:30PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Mid-Ohio)   9/23     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
MotorWeek '93 (T-bird V8)             9/23     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           9/23     8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     9/23     9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                9/23     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (L)    9/23    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
SpeedWeek                             9/24     12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, MINERAL SPRINGS(T)9/24     1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/24     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IHRA WORLD NATIONALS, NORWALK (T)     9/24     3:30-4:30AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             9/24     6:00-6:30PM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             9/25     6:30-7:00AM      ESPN
Shadetree Mechanic (small engines)    9/25     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Firehawk/Supercar Series              9/25     1:30-2:00PM      TNN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/25     2:00-2:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/25     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/25     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, NEW HAMPSHIRE (T)           9/25     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
LATE-MODEL STOCKS, MARTINSVILLE (SD)  9/25     4:00-5:30PM      ESPN
IOGP POWERBOATS, ST. LOUIS (T)        9/25     5:00-5:30PM      TNN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Nazareth)   9/26     12:00-12:30AM    ESPN
SAAB PRO, ROAD AMERICA (T)            9/26     12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
IHRA SPORTSMAN, NORWALK (T)           9/26     1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
ESPN 2 Preview                        9/26     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Movie: Le Mans (Baltimore only. Sorry!9/26     2:00-4:00AM      WNUV
MotorWeek                             9/26     2:00-2:30AM      WGN
Motoworld                             9/26     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (L)      9/26     8:50-11:00AM     TSN [1]
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/26     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Trucks And Tractor Power              9/26     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Terry Labonte)               9/26     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/26     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/26     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           9/26    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, MARTINSVILLE (L)         9/26     12:40-4:30PM     ESPN
Swamp Buggy Racing (T)                9/26     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
RaceDay Update w/Pat Patterson (L)    9/26     3:25-3:00PM      TNN
Winners (Terry Labonte)               9/26     3:30-4:00PM      TNN
NASCAR Shop Talk w/Eli Gold           9/26     4:30-5:00PM      ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (SD)     9/26     5:00-7:00PM      ESPN
Shadetree Mechanic (small engines)    9/26     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update w/Pat Patterson (L)    9/26     6:00-6:05PM      TNN
NHRA WINSTON INVITATIONAL, ROCKNGHM(T)9/26     6:05-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              9/26     7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      9/26     8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           9/26     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine w/Don Garlits      9/26     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (SD)     9/26    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
Trucks And Tractor Power              9/26    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/26    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Mid-Ohio)   9/27     3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Nazareth)   9/27     4:00-4:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA w/Ed Bruce               9/27     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/28     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
WINSTON CUP, MARTINSVILLE (T)         9/28     1:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/29     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
WINSTON CUP, MARTINSVILLE (T)         9/29     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
LATE-MODEL STOCKS, MARTINSVILLE (T)   9/29     2:00-3:30PM      ESPN
NASCAR Shop Talk w/Eli Gold           9/29     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/30     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IOGP POWERBOATS, AUSTIN (T)           9/30     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/30     3:30-4:00AM      MTV
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (T)      9/30     1:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Cycle World                           9/30     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     9/30     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
ESPN2 Preview                         9/30     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
MotorWeek '93 ('94 Chryslers & DeVille9/30     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Prime Time Motorsports                9/30     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR w/Eli Gold (L)    9/30    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
SpeedWeek                             10/01    12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, SYRACUSE (T)      10/01    1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 10/01    1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IOGP POWERBOATS, ATLANTIC CITY (T)    10/01    1:30-2:30PM      ESPN
IHRA SPORTSMAN, NORWALK (T)           10/01    2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (Winston Cup @ Martnsvl10/01    3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Motoworld                             10/01    6:00-6:30PM      ESPN
Movie: Duel                           10/01    8:00-9:30PM      WGN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

BUSCH GN, ROUGEMONT (?)               10/02    TBA              TBA
BUSCH GN, RICHMOND (T)                10/02    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, N. WILKESBORO (L)        10/03    1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/03    9:00-11:00PM  ESPN,TSN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/03   11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
NASCAR LATE MODEL, N. WILKESBORO (T)  10/04    9:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, LAGUNA SECA (T)           10/04    9:30PM           TSN
NHRA, KEYSTONE NATIONALS, READING (T) 10/05    10:30PM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, ELKART LAKE (T)        10/07    12:00AM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (?)               10/09    TBA              TBA
Formula Atlantic Season Summary       10/09    2:30-4:30PM      TSN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (T)                   10/09    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, CHARLOTTE (L)            10/10    1:00PM           TBS
IMSA GTP, PHOENIX (SD)                10/10    8:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (T)                10/10    9:00-10:30PM     TNN
NHRA NATIONALS, TOPEKA (T)            10/12    10:00PM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (T)                   10/16    3:30-5:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (L)            10/17    1:00-3:00PM      TNN
Hydroplane Racing, San Diego (T)      10/17    1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, LOUDON (T)               10/17    9:00-10:30PM     TNN
NHRA NATIONALS, DALLAS (T)            10/17    10:00PM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, MID-OHIO (T)           10/19    7:30PM           ESPN
IHRA NATIONALS, EPPING (T)            10/19    10:30PM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, ROCKINGHAM (L)              10/23    2:00-4:30PM      TNN
FORMULA 1, SUZUKA, JAPAN (L)          10/23  11:50PM-2:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, ROCKINGHAM (L)           10/24    12:30-5:00PM     TNN
NHRA MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T) 10/24    6:05-7:30PM      TNN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out RDS which broadcasts each race live. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim 
Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     ASN                Arizona                         Ben Loosli
     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
     PSN                Portland                       Mike Butts
  SportsChannel      San Francisco                     Chuck Fry
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 20:24:29 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6521
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I own a retied police cruiser -- an '89 LTD Crown Vic with a 351W.  It
>has dual cats on it but appears to be missing most of the other
>pollution control hacks that you might find on an '89 car.  So does
>anyone know if police departments are exempt from the EPA regs?  I
>wonder if I would be able to take this car to eco-nazi-controlled CA.

Absolutly not!!!  There was a case a while back - may even have been the
FBI.  In any case it was ruled that the police had to follow the same
regulations as everyone else.

>(I would love to get a hold of one of the police ``interceptor''
>models with a 429 or a 460.)

If a 429 or 460 was legal for a certain year, you would be able to put 
the same engine/parts in another car of the same year.  So if Ford ever
puts a 351 in the police mustang - I'll have the source/parts to put
my own 351 in the car.  100% legal (although I think I could get away
with it today in Maryland

A friend used to own an unmarked 88 capric classic.  Interceptor.  It 
contained the 350 vs 305 which I guess was the standard motor.  Rebuilding
the motor with 11.0:1 pistons/ performance cam and headers/duals got him
in the 15's.  Driving the car got him either stuck in traffic (noone 
willing to go faster than 55) or pulled over ("Hey what are you doing
driving a police car?").  After all the hassle he got rid of it.

I don't know the last time ford put a 460 in a car but I bet it was early 
'70's.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 20:30:16 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6522
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>>Here in Kentucky there are no laws/regulations of this type.
>You said it.  No inspections whatsoever here in Kansas.

There are _Federal_  smog control laws under the Clean Air Act that 
apply regardless of which state you live in.  One thing they state: It 
is illegal to remove emissions controls except to repair or replace.

>I own a retied police cruiser -- an '89 LTD Crown Vic with
>a 351W...I wonder if I would be able to take this car to ... CA.

I looked into this two years ago. There was a $300 (one time) fee for 
registering a 49 state car in CA. The reasoning, according to the 
booklet from the DMV: CA residents pay approx 300 more per car because 
of emissions control programs, so this is to help support those programs.
Of course, if you are just visiting, don't worry about it.

----------
Posted by: David Gonzales (General) 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 20:34:58 1993
Subject: Spark Plugs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6523
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I remember reading an article on how to get an extra 3-5 hp by
-> putting your spark plugs into the cylinder head with the gap (or the
-> opening) facing down directly into the cylinder.
-> Does this make sense?

 That's called "indexing the spark plugs."  There are indications that
it can be beneficial.  However, there are a few problems with it:

 First, you have to determine which way your particular chamber, piston
dome, camshaft, and ports want the plug to face.  Second, you are
dealing with *very small* amounts of power here - less than most dynos
can repeatably measure.

 Probably the most reasonable way to determine the index would be to
look at the carbon patterns on the head and piston, if they're not just
black.  If there's any sign of fuel wash (clean spots) the plug gap
should probably face them.

 Setting the index is easy - you use special shims under the plug, sold
by many speed shops, PAW, and Summit.  They're cheap enough.  You just
make a mark on the plug with a felt tip, screw it in, and shim it until
the mark points wherever you determined is optimal.

 Personally, I don't think it's worth it.  A good strong spark should be
adequate no matter which way the plug is turned.
    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 20:39:51 1993
Subject: Re: Spark Plugs 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6524
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <8pqzt!q@dixie.com> you write:
>
>I remember reading an article on how to get an extra 3-5 hp by putting your
>spark plugs into the cylinder head with the gap (or the opening) facing down
>directly into the cylinder.
>Does this make sense?
>
>I read the article a long time ago and can't remember it correctly, but my
>question(s): 1) do I want the gap facing down? (I assume down, but I don't
>remember) and 2) what do I do when I tighten the spark plug and it is not
>facing down?  Do I use a regular washer between the spark plug & the cylinder
>hoping to work my way around the mismatched thread?  I guess different
>thickness washers would be in order (or maybe just shave them down to the
>right size).  Is this the proper way to do it?  How safe is it?  (i don't
>want the thin washers cracking apart and having my spark plugs slowly work
>their way out of the cylinder heads)

Speed shops sell special indexing washers made for this purpose.  (DON'T use    regular washers)  They are usually used to index plugs which are used in engineswith pop up pistons. (To prevent the piston from tapping the electrode and      changing the gap.)  I have heard about minor HP gains from indexing them as you described, so it might be worth a shot.  
Good luck.

***David Helms  dbh0321@tamuts.tamu.edu


----------
Posted by: emory!tamuts.tamu.edu!dbh0321 (David Bruce Helms)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 20:46:10 1993
Subject: Dream Garage, again
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6525
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Two items:

1) Well, I went out and spent the $300+ on the Sherwin-Williams Tile-Clad
   II, based on recommendations from this group.

   The store I bought it from recommended four kits (8 gallons total) to
   cover 2000sq.ft.  The SW tech book recommended 7mil thickness.  The
   paint store was unable to give me good guidance about how thick the
   paint would end up if I rolled it on like I am planning to do.

   Can anybody who has used this stuff tell me if they used one coat or
   two?  Rolled on, sprayed on?  Will eight gallons be enough?

[My two gallon kit covered a stall 21' X 15 and another area 17' X 8'.
I rolled it on with a paint roller.  Single coat.  No primer.  I 
simply high pressure washed the surface to remove the old paint,
let it dry for a few days and then painted.  JGD]

2) Any recommendations on sources for building a clean room for engine
   assembly?  My new dream garage has an office in it that is too
   large for my purposes.  I was thinking of dividing it in half
   and using half for engine assembly.  Would some sort of washable
   interior be adequate?  Hose down the inside before assembly?

   Having had the inside of my current garage infested with little metal
   splinters from lots of die-grinding, I am also considering building
   a metal grinding booth to keep all the metal splinters (hopefully)
   contained in one area.

Thanks,

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 10:59:53 1993
Subject: silicone, O2 sensors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6526
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I would bet that it's the acetic acid fumes from RTV silicone rubber that
screw up the O2 sensors and not some mysterious silocone containing volatile.
Most silocone oils or rubbers are very stable and are not very volatile at
all.  There is a big difference between siloxane polymers and silica which is
what glass is made of.  Most siloxane oils have very high boiling points, so
I doubt if even uncured RTV silicone has any silicone containing volatiles.

I know there are RTVs that are guaranteed not to hurt O2 sensors.   the
Acetic Acid is what's to blame.

One thing I know is that you don't want to get anything with silicone oil
near your car before you paint it.  It's tough to get it off and it makes
some butt-ugly fish-eyes in your paint if you don't get it all off.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 11:08:55 1993
Subject: Police interceptor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6527
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I know they had 460 "police interceptors" in '77 because I own one.  I don't
know what the last year they were available was.  In my Chiltons book, they
have a special listing for the "police interceptor" 460 vs. the ordinary 460.
 As far as I could see it had a few more horsepower, an oil cooler I think,
and slightly higher capacities on the oil and water.  I haven't had it long
enough to find anything else special about it.  I know it has 220,000 miles
on it and possible 320,000 miles, so it must have been pretty ruggedly built.

Anyone want to trade the 460 for a 454?

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 15:42:55 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6528
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well here in Henry County Ga (about 20 min.s from Downtown Atlanta) we have
absolutly no regulations on the such.  All of our neighboring counties have
such, but we have YET to see this.  Hopefully when we do get them my 70 stang
won't be affected.  Weird how close to Atlanta we are and we have no regulations
for our cars.  Hey John, maybe you should move to Stockbridge.  Also kind of
seems like there might be an awful of lot good buys when all of these regula-
tions hit.  Later.
Tom

[I think this new plan picks up Henry county but it won't go back to 70.
I think the new cutoff is 78.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 15:50:44 1993
Subject: Re: Switch to turn off Alternator
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6529
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> >I have a GM type alternator with an internal regulator. Ther are 3 wires that 
> >run to it. One is the big one that recharges the battery and the 
> >other 2 that connect in a little clip. I have heard that you can put
> >a switch in one of the 2 wires that will turn off the alternator,
> >therefore eliminating the drag of the alternator for a short time or 
> >however long it takes to run 1/4 mile :-).
> >
> >Well now that I have said all that does anybody know which 
> >wire I want to put the switch in.
> >
> >Posted by: Steve Romanski 
> 
> 
> 	 The other wires comming from the alt. are grounds. Don't ask why 
> there are more than one but they basically do the samething. So by eather 
> disconecting the wire to the battery or both grounds you will loose that 
> extra .001 of a second.  Good Luck, every little bit helps.
> 
 The three terminals on the alternator are BAT which goes to the battery
(the thick red wire) terminal no.1 goes to the Idiot light on your dash
terminal no.2 is the sense wire for the alternator which is basicaly
connected to the battery also. By disconnecting no. 2 you also shut
the alternator. I have read numerous articles on turning off your alternator
for the 1/4 mile but they all say its not worth it.

Cal


----------
Posted by: emory!snakemail.hut.fi!tratschu
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 15:59:01 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6530
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>You're right when you say around here.  I wonder if there are any laws
>to keep the Japanese from enjoying all of the great old cars they are
>buying up?

  Don't ask me if/how any Japanese enthusiasts get around it, but if you
think US emissions laws are a pain in the ass, try Japan's (at least around
the populations centers, e.g. Tokyo).

  I don't know the exact figures, but it works out so that you basically
need a brand new engine every X years (where X < 5?).  That's where all
those cheap engines come from that get advertised in the back of the
Recycler in Southern California.  Rip the old ones out in Japan and
sell 'em here.

  Regardless, what scares me most of all are the junker laws and incentives
to destroy old cars.  That'll kill me quicker than anything else.

  Maybe you guys don't know as many self-styled "eco-freaks" as I do, but
I'm constantly confronted by people who nearly spaz out when I protest
these measures.  It seems some folks believe you _should_ buy a new car
every few years, because they're "more efficient" (yeah, right).  Just
ask them how much environmental costs are involved in the procurement of
raw material, transport, and manufacture of new automobiles.  That usually
shuts them up.

  Ron "Punch My Buttons" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 16:04:02 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6531
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: Spark Plugs 
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <8pqzt!q@dixie.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1993 02:43:38 GMT
Lines: 15

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>I remember reading an article on how to get an extra 3-5 hp by putting your
>spark plugs into the cylinder head with the gap (or the opening) facing down
>directly into the cylinder.
>Does this make sense?

Go to your local speed-shop and ask for "index washers".  Just draw a line on
the side of the spark plug (Not with a pencil!!) and trial and error of
installing the plugs.  Nothing beats free horsepower!

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 16:10:13 1993
Subject: Re: Hemis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6532
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> -> real slow).  Kinda makes me wonder what could be done with dual plugs
> -> on gas.  If you can fire two coils from one set of points/electronics
> -> (so that the spark happens at almost the same time) you ought to be
> -> able to really cut back on the advance - faster burn(effectively) and
> -> less wasted during the piston's rise.  Wonder if you'd even notice
> -> the difference.  Didn't some Nissan/Datson use dual spark plugs?
>

The porsche 911 racing cars have used dual plugs for a long time. The current
911's 3.6 l uses dual plugs from the factory. the 911 has a hemi type
cumbustion chamber. the dual plugs allow the use of higher compression than the
single plug and thus more hp. the 3.6 l 911's have a compression ratio of 11.3
to 1 and run on pump gas. this is a popular modification on 911's as it allows
the use of higher compression and can be performed on any 911 engine.

----------
Posted by: Loelle S Poneleit 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 16:15:44 1993
Subject: Air conditioning thread
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6533
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone have a copy of the threads about R12/134a/GHG12/MACS/EPA
that was in rec.autos.tech a while back?  The subject recently came
up in the Fidonet automotive echo, and I'd like to enlighten them
a bit.  Please drop me a note at lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
or lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu if youve got it (don't send the whole
thread--I only need one copy of it :).
Thanx.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu     >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \ Wanted: 68 Camaro Convertible V8/4spd   /

----------
Posted by: Jonathan R. Lusky 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 16:20:31 1993
Subject: RE: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6534
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

While we're on the subject, does anyone know what the emissions test readings
would be if the test probe was left out in the open air? The reason I ask is
this, I took one of my cars through yesterday, the seam on the pipe from the
cat to the muffler has rusted through and the muffler has a 3" diameter hole in
it. I know that the exhaust system is supposed to be in complete working order,
but I thought I'd try it anyways. The car is quiet at idle. The readings were
as follows: HC = 0000ppm, CO = 00.00%, CO2 = 9.4%. So is the car really that
clean or are we measuring atmosphere here? Past years, the readings were low,
but not like this. (BTW the car is a '87 Nissan 200SX SE 3.0L V6.)

Ron

----------
Posted by: "Mellum Ron" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 16:25:21 1993
Subject: Re:  Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6535
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 23 19:48:32 1993
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 93 19:10 EDT
Subject: Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> -> 3. If I have to grind, do all rods get it, or only a few?

>  Personally, I'd only grind the ones that need it.

 Of course if you really start to hog out material you might need to redo
any balancing work. 

 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 16:29:53 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6536
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Sep 23, 19:55, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
> I don't know the last time ford put a 460 in a car but I bet it was early
> '70's.
>

Try the mid-seventies.  My '76 Mercury Grand Marquis has a 460 in it.
I believe the '77 was also available with the 460.  I do not think the
'78 was.

By the way, this wagon has a 9" rear (three-link with panhard!),
double A-arm front suspension, and full dual exhausts, all from the
factory.

I wish my 5.0 mustang were as good. ;-)

Of course, I've added a few things...

To the C6 I've added an RV torque converter, trans cooler, and shift
kit.  With the RV converter and cooler, it takes 13 quarts of tranny
fluid.  I've replaced the springs with the stiffest springs I could
find all the way around.  Also in the rear I added additional
coil-overs, and an aftermarket sway bar.

I'm thinking about pulling the motor for a quickie rebuild, and adding
an RV cam and headers.

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 16:34:51 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6537
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



> I don't know the last time ford put a 460 in a car but I bet it was early 
> '70's.

Close.  They used the 460 into the late 70's.  My Chilton's book lists
(with a bit of discrepancy from another table in same):

1968		240, 302, 390, 428, 428PI, 462
1969		240, 302, 390, 428PI, 429
1970		240, 302, 351W, 390, 428PI, 429
1971		240, 302, 351W, 351C, 390, 400, 429PI, 429
1972		240, 302, 351W, 351C, 400, 429, 429PI
1973		351W, 351C, 400, 429, 429PI
1974		351W, 351C, 400, 460, 460PI
1975		351M, 400, 460, 460PI
1976		351M, 400, 460, 460PI
1977		351M, 400, 460
1978		302, 351W, 351M, 400, 460

(Everything after 78 is < 400.)

1979-80		302, 351W
1981-82		255, 302, 351W
1983-88		302, 351
1989-92		281, 302, 351

The table drops the Windsor suffix on all of the 351 engines starting
in 1983.  Is this simply a mistake?  Or is this yet another variety of
351 besides the Windsor, Cleveland, and Modified engines that were
used?

Ford started using the Ford Variable Venturi (VV) carburetor or
EFI/CFI on these cars starting in 1979 except the 49-state 1979 351W
which had a normal 2 bbl carburetor.

(Are the Ford VV carbs any good?)

-- Chris.
(ch@lks.csi.com)

----------
Posted by: Christopher Hoover 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 16:40:21 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6538
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 
> >   Well, I guess this is one advantage of living in the middle of nowhere.
> >Here in Kentucky there are no laws/regulations of this type.
> 
> Unfortunately, you ain't gonna' hide from this one.  The last Clean Air
> Act that Georgie signed before moving to his new house in Texas (is it
> built yet :-) requires that every state have an emission inspection
> that provides coverage to EPA standards.  This means the expensive NOx
> analyzers and dynos.

   Thanks...you really made my day.  :(  

[It's not going to be that bad.  The new law requires states prove
compliance.  Only nonattainment (how's that for bureaucratese?)
areas will have to take draconian steps such as dyno-based testing.
Rural areas can prove compliance by virtue of air monitoring.  If the
air is clean (as defined by EPA of course), no further steps are
required.  Areas that fail one or more days a year will have to take
further steps.  The first step will be tailpipe sniffing.

What really pisses me is the EPA is making cars take it in the throat
in areas where most of the pollution is natural.  Fer'instance, 
here in Atlanta, as with all the Smokey Mountains region, most of
the photochemical smog comes from natural sources, mainly pine trees.
That's what makes the Smokeys smokey.  I forget the exact figures
but the EPA was quoted somewhere recently that if all the cars were
removed from Atlanta streets, the ozone and HC levels would only
drop about 30%.  This is really just another shot from the hate-the-
car brigade.  JGD]
 
> By the way, I am all for clean running cars.  I figure that if it is
> not running clean, there is more power to be made, and more frequent
> stops at the gas pump.  I just want to make sure that passing an
> emission test is just that, not a test to see that you still have your

   Well, as long as they don't expect my cars that were made in the 60's
and early 70's to meet the emission levels of a 90's car, I shouldn't have 
any problem passing their tests.  But just the same, I'm still going to 
keep an eye out for this lunacy.  I'm already screwed as far as AC goes.
How long before they force me to sell my "junk" and buy an econo-box?

   And I agree about the factory gizmos.  As long as you can pass the 
emissions levels set for your car, they shouldn't need to check under
the hood.

Larry

----------
Posted by: Larry Estep 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 17:47:53 1993
Subject: Re: Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6539
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	I'm using what is supposed to be 350 rods. I bought them from a 
mail order house "done". (Cleaned, mag'ed, Shot peened bushed, redone and
ARP rod bolts.) I was hoping to get some better insight as to what has
to be done before I send the block out. I want to get ass'y balanced 
and if I have to grind, it means bore block, retrieve block, fit rods 
to check cam, fix rods as req'd, and return for balance job. I guess I could 
press off an old piston and do all this using an old stock piston. But
I should clean block first before I go fitting bearings and a fresh crank
into it.
Rod side clearance is supposedly a little loose in this arrangement so I 
guess a hivolume oil pump might be a good idea too.

--
Derek J. Pietro
Picker International
derekp@stdavids.picker.com
sloride.uucp!derekp	(home)

----------
Posted by: emory!sparkie.stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 17:54:31 1993
Subject: Re: silicone, O2 sensors 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6540
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

--------

   In message  , you write:
 
| I would bet that it's the acetic acid fumes from RTV silicone rubber that
| screw up the O2 sensors and not some mysterious silocone containing volatile.
| Most silocone oils or rubbers are very stable and are not very volatile at
| all.  There is a big difference between siloxane polymers and silica which is
| what glass is made of.  Most siloxane oils have very high boiling points, so
| I doubt if even uncured RTV silicone has any silicone containing volatiles.
| 
| I know there are RTVs that are guaranteed not to hurt O2 sensors.   the
| Acetic Acid is what's to blame.

Perhaps, but in my brief summary of the article I left a lot in
information out. While in no way do I wish to defending this
author and his conclusions, I should at least make the following
points (at the risk of wasting network bandwidth :) ): First, it
doesn't take very high levels of silicon to contaminate the
sensor. Second, the silicon volatiles (assuming that they exist
in very small quantities) are oxidized in the combustion chamber
(introduced through the PVC system) to form smoke "containing
molecule size particles of silica (SiO2)."  Further, the author
states "when the material is on the exhaust side of the sensor,
it can be seen on the sensor shield as a fine white powder."  It
is the fine white powder, identified as silica, that poisons the
sensor by partially blocking the pores.  In essence, it acts as
a selective filter letting small molecules such as hydrogen pass
easily while larger ones such as oxygen pass not so easily.
Hence, the sensor gives a signal indicating a richer mixture.
Third, a model was sited that supports the conclusion of the
role that the silica powder plays. Fourth...  well, read the
article before you pass judgement... The authors go on to
describe screening tests used by AC for silicone rubbers to
avoid poisoning of the sensor.  (SAE article 860478, "Poisoning
of Zirconia Exhaust Oxygen Sensors by Silica", by B.W.
Holleboom, S.W. Hawes, and E.L. Ker of AC Spark Plug Div,
General Motors Corp).

                                       John S Gwynne
                                          Gwynne.1@osu.edu

----------
Posted by: John S Gwynne 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 18:07:26 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6541
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 
> >>Here in Kentucky there are no laws/regulations of this type.
> >You said it.  No inspections whatsoever here in Kansas.
> 
> There are _Federal_  smog control laws under the Clean Air Act that 
> apply regardless of which state you live in.  One thing they state: It 
> is illegal to remove emissions controls except to repair or replace.

   Yea, but this is something that has never been enforced here.
It's pretty common for local garages to replace cats with glass packs.  :)
But from what I've been hearing, the future is looking dim....


Larry

----------
Posted by: Larry Estep 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 18:16:00 1993
Subject: Re: Dodge turbo IV motor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6542
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <#4pzl-a@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>I friend of mine has the Dodge Spirit R/T. This has the most powerful dodge
>2.2 in recent years. 16 valves, DOHC, turbo, engineered by Lotus, and 224 hp.
>
>[...list of problems...]
>
>So I suggest that nobody buy a turbo IV motor until the bugs get
>worked out. A real shame, as it looks quite nice.

	I had thought that this was the end of the line for the 2.2L turbo
motor, and that it was to be developed no further.  Am I wrong on that?

	I have yet to figure out why anyone in their right mind would design
a hipo motor that didn't have a timing chain.  Less worry, less hassle, less
maintenance, more reliability, more longevity.  A big win all the way around,
and if the motor is strong enough to begin with, then the added inertial mass
isn't a problem.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 18:22:25 1993
Subject: Isuzu Trooper Engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6543
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Friends,

I have an 1989 Isuzu Trooper V6. I was told that the engine is essentially a GMC 
Jimmy engine with throttle fuel injection. Any ideas on performance upgrades for 
this engine ?

Thanks,


Bart

----------
Posted by: Bart Denys 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 20:45:12 1993
Subject: Life and my Valve Stem Seals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6544
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	First off, I was recently working on getting the 'right' jet
set-up in my Holley carburetor, and a few of you offered some
suggestions of how to tell when I had the optimum jet selection.
Well, as it turns out, after trying 5 different sets, the original
jets that came with the carburetor were the ones that worked best.
Guess those Holley people really know what their doing.

	My question, though, is about valve stem seals. My engine
was recently re-built 5000 miles ago, which included the block
being bored oversized and new pistons. I have noticed, however,
that I need a quart of oil about every 2500 miles. The plugs
aren't at all fouled, and I never see any blue smoke on start
up. And there are no gasket leaks.

	What somebody suggested is with my new cam, that pulls
18 inches of vacuum on level ground at 85MPH (and will go up
to 25 inches of vacuum when going downhill at the speed with
no throttle) is this high vacuum rate, with no piston ring
leakage, is sucking oil through the intake valve guides.

	I have a Chevy head (one head, it's a straight-6),
so the valve guides are built-in the head. I had the guides
knurled during the re-build.

	The valve seals I used were the stock Fel-Pro seals
I got in the Fel-Pro engine re-build kit (a really cool kit
where you get every gasket imaginable, and even some extra
ones, for 38 bucks.), which are just little rubber rings.

	Is that a problem that anybody else has experiences?
If so can anybody recommend valve seals that will leak even
less oil than the ones I have now? I've seen all those fancy
ones with the cups and whatnot, but I just need one that's
proven to work. (And within reasonable price, of course.
A set of pistons cost me $75. I don't want to spend anywhere
near that on a set of valve seals.)


                                                    Jason

The first piece of luggage out of the airline chute doesn't belong
to anyone, ever.

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)
(jcborkow@eden.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 20:54:07 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6545
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

GatorMail-Q                   RE>That Taboo Subject... 
>areas will have to take draconian steps such as dyno-based testing.
 
Here in Arizona, we sort of have dyno based testing, if my 72 fails
initial idle, I have to run it up to 35mph or so, then they take
another idle reading.  They print out the 'at speed' readings for
diagnostic purposes, but it doesn't have to pass.  On the newer
vehicles, you have to pass 'at speed' also.  Is this what other states
are going to now?  

>   Well, as long as they don't expect my cars that were made in the
60's
>and early 70's to meet the emission levels of a 90's car, I shouldn't
have 
>any problem passing their tests.  But just the same, I'm still going
to 
  
The standards are more relaxed for the older cars here, and really not
too difficult to pass.

>   And I agree about the factory gizmos.  As long as you can pass the 
>emissions levels set for your car, they shouldn't need to check under
>the hood.

They don't even pop the hood on the older cars, like my 72.  On newer
vehicles, they have the equipment inspection, which can fail you even
if you pass the tailpipe emission levels, which sucks.

Jim Chott                           85 Toyota 4WD pickup
rzaa80@email.sps.mot.com            72 LeMans Sport Convertible


----------
Posted by: "Jim Chott" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 21:08:31 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6546
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Fri, 24 Sep 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Close.  They used the 460 into the late 70's.  My Chilton's book lists
> (with a bit of discrepancy from another table in same):
> 

could you make a list like this for Chevy for me?
just pre 1974 though...


<%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%>
   I hate the rain too sometimes, but hell, if it didn't fall we would.                           --- H. Clark





----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 21:13:57 1993
Subject: silica and O2 sensors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6547
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

If it really is silica that screws up the sensors, then I would bet that the
oil as well as the gas is one of the sources.  I remember way back when the
US started to buy a lot of oil from the Arabs that there was talk that the
Arab crude oil had a lot more contamination of silica (finely powdered sand)
than American and other sources.  It was supposed to harder to refine.  My
grandfather was in the oil business back then (distributed Shell products to
farmers in the San Joaquine Valley), and he'd heard that the motor oil made
from Arab oil was lousy and had a lot of silica in it.  The best oil around
came from Pennsylvania crude:  Pennzoil, Quaker State.  He used Pennzoil
rather than the Shell stuff.  Having oil swimming with sand doesn't sound too
appetizing for the engine's bearings and seals.

We have a machine at work called a plasma etcher which we use to etch silicon
wafers with.  The vacuum pump which pumps on the exhaust of it is filled with
Fomblin (an inert hi-temp oil).  The fine molecular size particles from the
plasma etcher get into the Fomblin and contaminate it.  These fine abrasives
wind up getting in the seal area of the pump and carve a deep groove in the
pump shaft.  The pump has a pre-filter which stops everything down to .2
microns, but the fine abrasives get through anyway.  We waste $2000 +
overhauling the pump yearly. 

My $.02 worth
Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 23:02:13 1993
Subject: Re:  Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6548
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> >  Personally, I'd only grind the ones that need it.
>
> Of course if you really start to hog out material you might need to
> redo any balancing work.

 As my brother found out with his aluminum rods, fit it together first,
do any grinding needed, THEN balance it.
                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 23:09:42 1993
Subject: Re: Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6549
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I'm using what is supposed to be 350 rods.

 That ought to be fine.  The 403 rods are stronger but heavier, and even
the 350 rod looks plenty hefty.


-> I should clean block first before I go fitting bearings and a fresh
-> crank into it.

 Some Gunk and a car wash will clean it enough to work with.  Might as
well do any grinding before you have it hot tanked.  The only place
you're likely to see any clearance problems is at the bottoms of the
cylinder bores.  I'd like to see .125 there, but probably .060 would be
OK.  Kevin had to grind slots up the side nearly to the rings before the
big Manley aluminum rods would clear in his 350.


-> Rod side clearance is supposedly a little loose in this arrangement
-> so I guess a hivolume oil pump might be a good idea too.

 I'm the one who plotted this out to begin with.  According to the
various sources, tolerance stack should give between .017 to .032, which
Olds engine builders thing is just fine, and Chevy engine builders
nearly lay an egg.  I'd use the high volume pump, but I don't expect any
troubles.

 You haven't had anyone tell you you're some kind of nut yet?  
                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Sep 24 23:22:06 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6551
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Yea, but this is something that has never been enforced here.
-> It's pretty common for local garages to replace cats with glass
-> packs.  :)

 Changing the subject slightly here -  is catalytic convertor efficiency
related to how clean the convertor is inside?  Depending on fuel and oil
types, some engines can make a lot of soot.  Would flushing the
convertor with solvent do anything useful?
                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 25 17:37:11 1993
Subject: Re: Police interceptor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6552
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <78qzaq@dixie.com>, The Hotrod List  wrote:
>I know they had 460 "police interceptors" in '77 because I own one.  I don't
>know what the last year they were available was.  In my Chiltons book, they
>have a special listing for the "police interceptor" 460 vs. the ordinary 460.
> As far as I could see it had a few more horsepower, an oil cooler I think,
>and slightly higher capacities on the oil and water.  I haven't had it long
>enough to find anything else special about it.  I know it has 220,000 miles
>on it and possible 320,000 miles, so it must have been pretty ruggedly built.
>
>Anyone want to trade the 460 for a 454?
>
>Tom
>
DON'T DO IT!!!!

It may cost a few dollars more to build than a chevy, but you can definitely
get more bang for your buck out of the 460 in a naturally aspirated
configuration.  Punch it out to 600 cubes! Install the Cobra-Jet
valves!  Open up the intake and exhaust ports!  Install those lethal
11.3:1 pistons!  Let that motor BREATHE!!!!!!

Mark F. Mitcham
  another Satisifed Customer...

----------
Posted by: emory!triton.unm.edu!ariel.unm.edu!markm
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 25 17:46:11 1993
Subject: RE: That Taboo Subject...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6553
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Ron asks about low readings for HC, CO, and CO2.  I suspect a bit of
dilution because I get readings of about 11% CO2 from a non-AIR pump
equopped car which has an intact exhaust system.  However, Ron's
radng of 9.4% isn't that low, and the measuring equipment that I've
seen will fail you if it thinks there is too much dilution.

Bob Hale           hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Sep 25 17:49:38 1993
Subject: Re: That Taboo Subject... 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6554
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>>>>> On Fri, 24 Sep 93 20:39 EDT, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) said:

ch> Close.  They used the 460 into the late 70's.  My Chilton's book
ch> lists (with a bit of discrepancy from another table in same):

glock> could you make a list like this for Chevy for me?  just pre 1974
glock> though...

I would if I could.  Maybe some one else can help ...

-- Chris.
(ch@lks.csi.com)

----------
Posted by: Christopher Hoover 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 27 11:39:29 1993
Subject: Re: Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6555
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


=> I'm using what is supposed to be 350 rods

-> That ought to be fine. The 403 rods are stronger but heavier, and even
the 350 rod looks plenty hefty.

These rods have an "x" cast into them. The maker claims they are 
"good forgings" from olds. Do you have any knowledge about this?

And yes, alot of people are scratching their heads calling me nuts, 
including an engine builder. (What the heck, though, he's a crower 
distributor so if its not crower, I'm wasting money, to him anyway)

----------
Posted by: emory!stdavids.picker.com!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 27 11:49:52 1993
Subject: Re: Life and my Valve Stem Seals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6556
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>	My question, though, is about valve stem seals. My engine
>was recently re-built 5000 miles ago, which included the block
>being bored oversized and new pistons. I have noticed, however,
>that I need a quart of oil about every 2500 miles. The plugs
>aren't at all fouled, and I never see any blue smoke on start
>up. And there are no gasket leaks.

	Did you bore the block, or just hone and install new rings? I rebuilt
a 305 and it took over 5k mi for the rings to seat and to get decent power. Oil
consumption was high during that period, but now it uses ~1/2 qt every 5k mi.
It has 30k mi on it now and its never run better. Give it some extra time for
the rings to fully form to the worn cylinder walls.

	If you don't get smoke on start up, then I don't think you have
seal problems, although I have been wrong before.

	Pete

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Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 27 11:58:09 1993
Subject: Re: Life and my Valve Stem Seals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6557
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>	My question, though, is about valve stem seals. My engine
>was recently re-built 5000 miles ago, which included the block
>being bored oversized and new pistons. I have noticed, however,
>that I need a quart of oil about every 2500 miles. The plugs
>aren't at all fouled, and I never see any blue smoke on start
>up. And there are no gasket leaks.
>
>                                                    Jason


Jason,
	I had the same problem with my 350 sb. I used 1 qt of oil every 2000
miles *after* my rebuild. 2 spark plugs even had some traces of oil fouling 
at some times. 

I finally decided to do something about it and was told to use the 'umbrella'
type seals that originally came from Caddillac engines, but are now available
for Chevies.

I used the umbrella seals together with the OEM o-rings. They are quite easy
to install, I did it in one afternoon without removing the heads.

They seem to work like a charm. My plugs are clean and oil consumption is
down. I've driven 1000 miles since I installed the seals and the oil level
is down from slightly over 'full' (I always seem to overfill that engine...) to
'full'! That's like about 1/8 of a quart in 1000 miles!

Markus ('75 Camaro, 350sb/TH350)

PS dont worry about the high vacuum readings.  I had 21" at idle w/stock
cam, almost 30" at deceleration.  I still have 18" at idle w/hipo cam
and 25 decelerating.

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Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 27 12:37:56 1993
Subject: Re: Life and my Valve Stem Seals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6558
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>       I have a Chevy head (one head, it's a straight-6),
> so the valve guides are built-in the head. I had the guides
> knurled during the re-build.
> ^^^^^^^

I wouldn't expect knurled guides to last much over 10k miles anyway.
At least that has been my experience with a Cheby 350. I bought a
tool to knurl the guides, but ended up with guided that were just as
bad in no time.

A better solution is to use a thin walled bronze insert installed. I
have heard of these lasting 100k mi. Either that or go with new
guides, bronze being preferable to cast iron.

As far a guide seals go, I think all of the seals that fit on the
guide boss require some machining first. I have heard that some of
these seals don't allow enough oil down the valve for proper
lubrication. K-line makes a rubber guide seal that is supposed to
work well. Anyone else have any experience (good/bad) on these or
other guide seals?

It sounds like you are not using that much oil yet, but if it does
get worse/intolerable, I'd fix those guides right this time, and
possibly get some better seals. Although the stock seals may be
adequate with better guides.



-Kevin


----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 27 16:45:14 1993
Subject: Re: Olds rods in 400 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6559
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> These rods have an "x" cast into them. The maker claims they are
-> "good forgings" from olds. Do you have any knowledge about this?

 From the info I've scavenged from Olds and Mondello, all the rods are
pretty much the same except for the 403.

from my database:

260-350-403 rods interchange, but 403 rod is much beefier.  Its balance
pads can usually be machined to bring it down to 260-350 rod weight.
403 rods are Olds part number 555142 and are 10% thicker across the beam
than the smaller rods, and supposedly "incorporate updated metallurgy."
- (HR Feb '80)

403 rod is marked XO on beam, 350 Diesel rod is much beefier (strongest
Olds rod) but is unique length, shorter (5.886), looks like it has a
larger wristpin bore too.

all Olds rods are forged


-> And yes, alot of people are scratching their heads calling me nuts,
-> including an engine builder. (What the heck, though, he's a crower
-> distributor so if its not crower, I'm wasting money, to him anyway)

   I guess he wouldn't want to hear about my brother's 331
project - 400 block, 262 crank, small block Chrysler rods.
                                                                                                  

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 27 16:52:28 1993
Subject: Re: RE: Tech Compression Ratio vs. Horsepower Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6560
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>On an engine the burning gasoline can push the piston 'farther' without
>having to push harder.  Sort of like getting better leverage but adding
>more weight - you do more work but you don't notice it as much.
>
>Hope this helps - hope I didn't make to many mistakes :-)

  To put it moer simply, take a ballon and pop it, then put the same amount 
of air in a smaller ballon and pop it. Wich will have the bigger bang? Thus 
the more force on the piston. Get it ?

[Actually the bangs will be the same because the same amount of energy
is released.  The higher dP/dT from the smaller balloon will make the 
sound seem sharper and perhaps louder but the same amount of energy
is involved in both case - assuming of course that it took the same
amount of energy to blow up both balloons.  Bad example.

Why higher compression improves efficiency and in some cases, power is
pretty basic thermo.  The efficiency of a Carnot cycle engine (ordinary
gas engine) is directly proportional to the ratio of the working fluid
temperatures before and after expansion.  Higher compression causes
faster combustion.  Faster combustion emits the same amount of heat
over a shorter interval which raises the temperature of the working
fluid AND it reduces heat losses through the combustion chamber walls.

With high speed engines, the rate of combustion is important for another
reason.  It is important for most combustion to conclude while the 
expanding gases can still do useful work.  If combustion is still 
occuring at the end of the power stroke or after the exhaust valve
starts opening, the energy is wasted.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!hp.uwsuper.edu!tcullen (TARY M. CULLEN)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 27 21:37:16 1993
Subject: hot rod 'vette
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6561
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Howdy gang...

  I am going to be acquiring a 1980 Chevette this evening...  (very low $$$)
I had no idea these cars were real wheel drive!  Disk brakes up front too!
Anyway, this beast has the stock 1.6 (?) 4 banger and unknown 3 speed
auto tranny.  I was wondering if anyone on the list had shoe-horned
in a 2.8 or 3.1 V6???  Would a vega/monza 10 bolt rear fit width-wise?
The rear suspension would have to be modified for it.  :-(
I would try a small block, but I think a nice V6 would do much better.
(We just finished a 3.8 buick -> vega conversion...  that is a _WIDE_
engine!!!!)  Anyone have some dimensions for popular 6's??????  
Come on Dave, don't let me down!!!!  :-)
  
Ideas?
jC.
_________________________________________________________
James C. Akers         FiberCom, Inc.        Roanoke, VA
jca@fibercom.com     uunet!fibercom!jca     (703)342-6700

----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James C. Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Sep 27 21:46:28 1993
Subject: Re: Life and my Valve Stem Seals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6562
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>>       I have a Chevy head (one head, it's a straight-6),
>> so the valve guides are built-in the head. I had the guides
>> knurled during the re-build.
>> ^^^^^^^
>
>I wouldn't expect knurled guides to last much over 10k miles anyway.
>At least that has been my experience with a Cheby 350. I bought a
>tool to knurl the guides, but ended up with guided that were just as
>bad in no time.

Knurling does not help control the oil (at least not directly).  You
knurl the guides so the valves don't wobble around - this gives better
seating of the valves.  Since the valves don't wobble the seals should
be better.

About those little O-ring type seals.  They are supposed to go between
the valve spring retainer and the keepers.  Make sure this is the case.
This means you compress the spring/retainer then put the O-ring over the
valve and then put the keepers in place.

>A better solution is to use a thin walled bronze insert installed. I
>have heard of these lasting 100k mi. Either that or go with new
>guides, bronze being preferable to cast iron.

Thin walled guides work best with a very smooth yet hard valve.  This
means stainless steel.  This arrangement requires less oil than steel
on iron - therefor more radical seals can be used.  Valve stems
must have some kind of lubrication and you can reduce this need.
Cutting off all oil could lead to rapid wear and ultimately worse cylinder
sealing.


>-Kevin


----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Sep 28 07:16:44 1993
Subject: Re: hot rod chevete
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6563
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I had no idea these cars were real wheel drive!  I like that :)

	Try getting some suspension parts from an Isuzu Impulse.  I don't
know if the Handleing buy Lotus pakage would fit but since they cars had
the same frame it should.  I've heard the Impluse was availble with a
limited slip.  I doubt it'll take a hell of a lot of power tough.  It may
have had 4 whell disks too.
	A litle flame retardent and history here. Isuzu same this neat
design buy Giogio at a car show and bought it.  They needed a car to go
under the body so they started building chevetes under liescence from GM,
rebodying them and selling them as sports cars.  I'm not saying they were
good cars just a source of parts for chevete hot rods.

Henry

                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 30 23:47:47 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6564
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: hot rod 'vette
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: 
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1993 06:01:42 GMT
Lines: 30

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>  I am going to be acquiring a 1980 Chevette this evening...  (very low $$$)
>I had no idea these cars were real wheel drive!  Disk brakes up front too!
>Anyway, this beast has the stock 1.6 (?) 4 banger and unknown 3 speed
>auto tranny.  I was wondering if anyone on the list had shoe-horned
>in a 2.8 or 3.1 V6???  Would a vega/monza 10 bolt rear fit width-wise?
>The rear suspension would have to be modified for it.  :-(
>I would try a small block, but I think a nice V6 would do much better.
>(We just finished a 3.8 buick -> vega conversion...  that is a _WIDE_
>engine!!!!)  Anyone have some dimensions for popular 6's??????  
>Come on Dave, don't let me down!!!!  :-)

You're sick... I like it!  Anyway, I have seen articles about a prototype
car that Chevy product promotion made with a 2.8 in the Chevette.  I guess
everything just pretty much bolts in!  No frame or firewall modifications.
The stock tranny on the 'Vette is the metric 200.  Okay, I'll get off my
lazy butt and look for the article...  Ah, hah!  I knew I still had the
article around here somewhere.  The July 1982 Hot Rod magazine had an
entire article on this swap.  They list part numbers and all.  Check it
out on microfilm.  They list the 1/4 mile time at 16.2 @ 84 mph.  'Course
this is a stock, pollution equipped engine.  A new intake, cam, carb and
exhaust later, who knows!  I was interested in this swap too, once.  I
like the idea of pulling up next to a Camaro in your Chevette and blowing
the doors off of it!  The ultimate street sleeper.  Enjoy.  Later.

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 30 23:53:00 1993
Subject: Re: hot rod chevete
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6565
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The suggestion was made to look into Isuzu Impluse parts because this is
a copy of the Chevette.  I don't know about the Impluse, but I do know that
the I-Mark was a metricized copy of the Chevette [converted to metric
system].  Every part on the I-Mark looked like a came off the Chevette, except
it was slightly different size; nothing was transferrable.  I don't think
that I-Mark ever came with a limited-slip.  I don't know about the similarity
of the Impulse to the I-Mark.

One other thing is that Chevettes were available from the factory with V-6's.
I saw them at a dealer, on the road, and for sale.  It was the later part of
the Chevette run.  I think it was the 2.8l V-6.  Check a junk yard for the
pieces.

Good luck.

----------
Posted by: emory!tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov!"LIMS::TPCLIFF"
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 30 23:57:27 1993
Subject: 600 cube Ford? (was Re: Police interceptor)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6566
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 
> It may cost a few dollars more to build than a chevy, but you can definitely
> get more bang for your buck out of the 460 in a naturally aspirated
> configuration.  Punch it out to 600 cubes! Install the Cobra-Jet
> valves!  Open up the intake and exhaust ports!  Install those lethal
> 11.3:1 pistons!  Let that motor BREATHE!!!!!!

   I have a '66 Galaxie and I've been wanting to put something nice in it
that will really move that heavy beast.  I have a 429 with CJ heads and
intake sitting at the house.  I was told the engine ran when it was parked
about 8 years ago, but it won't turn over now.  I think it will be rebuildable.
What's the best thing I could do with this engine for under $2000?

Larry

----------
Posted by: Larry Estep 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Sep 30 23:59:35 1993
Subject:      Mustang list
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6567
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anybody out there know the address of the late model mustang
list.  Any info will be appreciated.

Derek P
University of Missouri
Research Reactor

----------
Posted by: Derek Pickett