From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug  1 04:20:25 1993
Subject: Fuel Injected 2-stroke Racebikes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5933
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> How long do these sensors last in use?  The data would be
-> fascinating. Also, do you have the numbers of any of those SAE
-> papers?
>
> [The intent is life-of-the-car.  Suspect they're a little short of
> that goal.  These are just piezo transducers so the sensor itself

 I'm curious about the size of the sensor, and whether it can be mounted
up in the valve cover where it'll see oil on top.  Boring a hole through
the water jackets and into the chamber, welding in a threaded sleeve,
and trying to clear the spark plugs, rocker gear, valvesprings, and
ports is gonna be fun.

[Kistler makes a combination spark plug and water cooled pressure
transducer.  Reportedly it works very well though it does require a 
charge amplifier external.  Kistler also makes direct insertion
transducers designed to thread in a drilled hole to the combustion
chamber.  These are precision, expensive lab instruments.  Both Bosch
and Hitachi have production-type sensors under development.  I'm not
sure if they'd be available to others yet or not.  JGD]

 It always looked to me like a rotation speed sensor on the crank would
be a practical way of detecting detonation.  The crank flexes according
to combustion loads anyway; when it sees an unusual load the vibration
characteristics would change.  Of course, you'd have to have enough
detonation to make itself felt on the bottom end instead of just looking
directly, but it'd be more sensitive than an acoustic system, and if
you don't have enough detonation to load the bottom end, you probably
don't have enough to hurt anything anyway.

[I posted here about a year ago on a magnetostrictive torque sensor
designed to fit inside the rear main bearing cap that could
measure detonation torque.  The sensor is real simple, consisting
of a cruciform ferrite core with windings in quadrature.  One
winding is excited with AC.  The resultant field is applied 
along the axis of the crank across an air gap.  Torque distorts
the field and causes voltage to be induced in the other coil proportional
to the instantaneous torque.  I don't think a commercial sensor is
available but the SAE paper made it look fairly easy to build. 
An LVDT exciter/amp would probably read the thing.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug  1 04:31:06 1993
Subject: RE: GM Granny gear 4 speed to 5 speed?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5934
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> BTW race trans are about $1800 - lot cheaper than those liberty
-> 5-speeds. But are they as good for a <600hp motor?

 Transmissions aren't rated in horsepower.  They're rated in for torque
in first gear, first being the weakest.

 The old iron case Top Loader and New Process boxes would handle over
750 ft-lb.  The new T5s handle from 175 to 290 ft-lb.
                                                                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug  1 11:38:58 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5935
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
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I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
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by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
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----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug  1 13:42:46 1993
Subject: Fuel Injected 2-stroke Racebikes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5936
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [I posted here about a year ago on a magnetostrictive torque sensor
-> designed to fit inside the rear main bearing cap that could

 You sure it was only a year or so ago?  I'm sure I would have
remembered that one.


-> to the instantaneous torque.  I don't think a commercial sensor is
-> available but the SAE paper made it look fairly easy to build.

 WHICH SAE paper?
                                                      
[Geez, makes me get up out of my chair, actually walk over to the 
book case... :-)  SAE Paper 900264 - "Magnetostrictive Torque Sensors - 
Comparisons of branch, cross and solenoid Designs".  Published in 
"Sensors and Actuators" 1990 SP-805.  He lists in the references two 
other papers, SAE 890482 and 890483.  There was also an article in 
"Automotive Engineering" on the topic with pictures of the little 
sensor embedded in the main bearing cap.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug  1 20:44:41 1993
Subject: Joe Dante
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5937
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Sorry about the waste of bandwidth, folks...

Joe Dante, I know you are reading this list.  Please drop me an email.

Thanks.

-Bob



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 00:28:35 1993
Subject: Re: the best BB  cyl. heads
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5938
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> 
> 
> The heade i have.. a pair of ZX1? aluminum heads. They are ported (not my me)
> and have been repaired a few times. ( I was told...they are a limited 
> production BB head found on the all-aluminum vette motor, or special order 
> and arrived in the trunk? of your car. anyone know for sure?)


If you have a pair of ZL1 heads, you may not want to run them at all.

The ZL1 (C.O.P.O.# 9560) is the  order name for the all aluminum 430hp
427 which was installed in only 69 Camaro's and two Vette's.
The ZL1 didn't come in anything else (stock) the only other way to get
it was to order the engine "over the counter" as a crate engine.

In stock trim the ZL1 ran a 13.16@ 110.21MPH on little (69 era) stock tires!

So you ought to be able to get a few bucks for em'. ;-)


> Posted by: Dan Howard 
>  

                      
                                          
                     
                     |                    
                     | David Gunsul       
                     | mgwhiz!mogun!dcg@mgweed.att.com
                     |------------------------------------------------
                     |  It's amazing what $2,500 worth of big block
                     |  will do to $30,000 worth of high technology. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!mgwhiz!mogun!dcg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 00:33:24 1993
Subject: Short Life
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5939
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Well the supercharged Rx7 is DEAD!!!

It lasted only 2 weeks with very little time at full throttle or full
boost.  This car only had 45000 miles on it.  I am positive it was not
running lean or overly hot.  But the compression in the number 1 rotor
is down to about 40 psi :-(.

I just ordered all new seals and gaskets from Mazda Motor Sports.  Very
reasonable price, less than $500.  I am adding a competition oil pump,
pressure regulator, and using larger oil jets in the eccentric shaft.

Engine removal starts tomorrow.

Later
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 00:37:42 1993
Subject: car for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5940
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


1977 Camaro. red/black tan interior.

ENGINE: 350 cu. in. 
9:1 comp., Edelbrock aluminum (Performer) manifold, 268 street cam,
Cyclone headers and dual exhaust system and dual Turbo 400 mufflers.
polished aluminum Edelbrock valve covers, chrome air cleaner with
"Bow-tie" wing-nut, chrome radiator shroud and water neck.

IGNITION: Accel blueprinted HEI. distributor, Accel 50,000 volt HEI. super coil,
Accel 8.8 mil. silicone wires, Bosch platinum spark plugs.

DRIVE TRAIN ETC.: Muncie aluminum M21 4-speed with Hurst super competition plus
shifter, 10-bolt 4:11 rear, traction bars.

MISCELLANEOUS: "Indy" style wheels (note: front wheels are 14's and rears
are 15's) custom Pioneer stereo with "bow-tie" on front.

NEW STUFF: (everything here was replaced within the last year)
both front rotors and pads, two BF Goodrich radial T/A's 195's (front)
clutch+throw-out bearing, fan shroud, fuel pump, alternator, front
and rear springs and shocks.

Runs great!



If anyone's interested you can reach me at the address below.

                      
                                          
                     
                     |                    
                     | David Gunsul       
                     | mgwhiz!mogun!dcg@mgweed.att.com
                     |------------------------------------------------
                     |  It's amazing what $2,500 worth of big block
                     |  will do to $30,000 worth of high technology. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!mgwhiz!mogun!dcg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 04:44:42 1993
Subject: Fuel Injected 2-stroke Racebikes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5941
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> WHICH SAE paper?

> [Geez, makes me get up out of my chair, actually walk over to the
> book case... :-)  SAE Paper 900264 - "Magnetostrictive Torque Sensors

 Don't feel bad.  My study is paneled in bookshelves, and I knocked a
hole in the wall to get to the adjoining room, which is ALL bookshelves.
Practically killed me to get rid of all those old car and computer
magazines last year, but practical OCR is still out of my price range.

 Those magnetorestrictive torque sensors might be interesting for the
dyno project.  Of course, standard commercial inline shaft sensors are
only about a hundred bucks.
                                                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 14:44:08 1993
Subject: High-stall converter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5942
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi all.

I read about the guy asking about a high stall converter for his AMC
spirit. He got the advice to not change the converter and instead 
change the gearing. I'm a little puzzled by this...by changing to 4.11
gears he would turn about 3600 rpm @ 60 mph. That's not very streetable.

Would not a high stall converter give the same benefits as higher gears?
ie get him to the power band quickly?

The reason for me asking is that I'm also planning on changing the 
converter. My car (75 Camaro, modified to about 260 bhp) spins the
tires pretty hard at the launch, but when the tires grip the rpm's
drop below the power band. This and a bit weak top end give me 
corrected ET's of about 15.5. I was thinking a bit wilder cam and a
high stall converter would rectify this...Am I wrong?

I have a 3.42 posi rear. I do not want to change the gearing as I
turn 2500 rpm @ 60 mph already, and this car is a daily driver.

The converter I'm thinking of installing is from a Chevy Vega. It's
a 10inch unit with pretty high stall. I read somewhere that depending
on the engine the stall might be as high as 3500rpm...Anyone know 
something about this?

Has anyone of you had some experiance with the vega converters?
If this converter really has 3500rpm stall, will the car be a
unstreetable gas hog?

Thanks

Markus

----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 14:52:54 1993
Subject: As promised...  Sunday's re
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5943
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                      As promised...  Sunday's results
Well, I will admit I didn't place as well as I had hoped.  I am still working
on hitch-height and tire tread-pattern/width.  I pulled 208' 3" (was good for
16th of 33) in class 1 (stock) and a rather poor 35' 7" in class 2 (street
modified).  Despite the the poor distance, it was still good for a mid-pack
finish in the field of 22 trucks in the class (11th).  I finished out of the
money, but I was $$$ ahead because I drove my truck home rather than picked up
its pieces in a basket.  I lost count at 10, but several more competitors did
substantial damage to their vehicles.  Examples include -- winner of stock --
broken rear driveshaft and transfercase yoke, third-place stock -- destroyed
rear axle housing, non-placer street-modified -- blew line on oilfilter
re-location kit and pumped engine dry while at high rpm and high load.  Several
other broken driveshafts and some internal damage (loud clank and no drive
forward or reverse, no visible external breakage).  The comment was made in
regard to me that I dug the deepest ruts.  In summation, I had a great time,
enjoyed the day *and* drove my truck home.

Things to note -- I started a trend with my effort last year in that there were
several street-driven trucks in 'supermodified, unlimited' class (class 4) this
year.  There was a very lovely 1953 Power Wagon in class 1 and there were five
Dodges total, sadly the Power Wagon and I had to carry the torch as the others
were poorly set-up and didn't make a very good showing.  Also interesting was a
1943 Ford 400, 16-speed, 100hp flathead V8 which pulled in all 4 classes.

Not sure I'm gonna make the other pulls this year, I have a couple things I
need to build for the truck before I'm ready again (modified hitch and some
traction-bars).

Walt K.


----------
Posted by: "ERDR/Walt Koziarz" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 15:03:01 1993
Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and Mechanics
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5944
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and Mechanics

-> Torque arm 3-links. The little reading I've done indicates that short
-> arm setups squat on acceleration and hop on deceleration. This is
-> where the arm is rigid, on centerline and mounted forward. So I
-> wondered late last night, would a torque arm pointing -aft- produce
-> the opposite behavior, i.e. plant on accelleration and dig on
-> braking?

My first question is what is the application? Street, street and strip, road
racing, circle track racing, slalom?

 If I'm reading this correctly you want to place a torque arm pointing at   
the rear bumper. This will help acceleration by causing the body to load the
tires provided the rear springs and shocks can handle it. As the rear end
pivots under acceleration the torque arm will pull the body toward the ground.
Under decceleration the body will lift, transffering weight toward the front
of the car and this lift must be compensated (usually with higher front spring
rates). This is the same effect as placing the torque arm forward of the CG.
However, besides spring rates and shocks you now have one more problem to
overcome. If your using a metal triangualted torque arm with springs and/or
rubber bushings, these are fairly heavy. The weight you will be adding is
unsprung weight and worse yet it will be weight behind the rear tires farther
away from CG and this will act as pendulum weight. If your using a Fiberglass
torque arm you will be limited by space behind the rear end and this will
effect the rate of the torque arm.

We abandoned the torque arms in our asphalt circle track cars in favor of an
aluminum upper link and spherical rod ends at both ends of upper link facing
the front of the car (conventional 3 link). The amount of traction gained is
more a matter of upper link angle (7-18 deg) (anti-squat) in conjunction with
lower arm angle (we run ours level). Upper arm length controls pinion angle.
The problem with the torque arm in our application was that the traction out
of the turn would go away quickly. The rear end would also unload violently
upon decceleration. We tried about every combination we could think of to get
this to work. I understand that dirt cars make good use of the torque arm
setup.

-> Traditional GM 4-links. Folks talk about them binding up. I guess
-> this's due to the upper arms being splayed, so there's not really a
-> nice parallelogram. Is this the main problem, and if the arms/body
-> mounting points were changed to be more parallel would Good Things
-> Happen?

The "Traditional Gm 4-links" bind when the body is in roll. The angles GM put
in the 4 link is optimum for controlling the rear end under day to day use.
The 4 link was never intended for drag racing, road racing or circle track
racing. The bind is the result of the rubber biscuits placed at the attaching
points of the upper and lower trailing arms. We build race cars for a wide
variety of divisions. One division called "Thunder Cars" requires full frame
cars using stock upper and lower arms. We remove the stock biscuits and
replace them with a rod end style bearing. This setup works very well,
although a 3 link would work better mostly because of the adjustability of the
rear roll center. Stock roll center is out of this world.

If you remove one of the upper links and add a panhard bar you must relocate
the remaining upper link so that it is in the middle of the rear end and
parallel with the center line of the car. Failure to do this can result in
some wicked rear torque steer. I recommend removing the upper and lower stock
trailing arms, replace the lower arms with round tubing (steel or aluminum,
depends on application) and spherical rod ends using right hand threads on one
end and left hand threads on the other. Upper link length about 80 - 85% of
lower links. Upper link mounted in center of rear end (not neccessarily center
of pig) pointed downward toward front of car approxiamately 10 degrees make
this adjustable if possible both for front mounting point and length using
right hand and left hand threaded rod ends. Panhard bar should be steel and as
long as possible. Mount the panhard so that the roll center centerline will be
located in the center of the rear end (side to side) and roll center height
will be located in the center line of the axle housing. Panhard should also be
mounted parrallel to the ground if possible.

-> inboard restraint at all. I have a quarter-baked idea about the above
-> sort of geometry modification by using arms of correct height but
-> located in line with the upper body mounts (not incidentally this
-> allows welding to the steel tube instead of the case pumpkin) and
-> using the existing Panhard mount exclusively for lateral location. At
-> what level of applied torque does axle tube - housing slip become a
-> worry? Do a few beads suffice to prevent it or is this a pro job?

I have seen the tube to housings slip under severe use. We welded the whole
joint to stop leakage of rear end grease and stop slippage. A few short welds
will work just fine. However, watch the amount of heat applied to the housing.
The axle tubes have a habit of pulling toward the weld causing the rear tires
to toe in or out and/or become cambered.

By the way. 60 Chevies have a three link with Panhard bar. Same as my old 63
which I wish I still had.

Roger Hensley
Patriot Motorsports
1099 N. 16th St
Otsego, Michigan 49078

----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 15:12:34 1993
Subject: Re: Reference materials
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5945
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>Reference materials

There are some "advice givers" that don't know what they're talking
about, like the ones in "Old Cars", then there's people who are afraid
(paranoid) to make any kind of a positive statement because if 'you try
it and it doesn't work/turn out you'll sue' (these guys don't know how
to say "this is what I did" which would get them out of any libel) then
there's Tex Smith who's usually pretty on in his explanations, etc

most "how to do it"s in the magazines (step by step piics etc aren't too
bad)

and of course - there's a lot of guys out there who build something
who'll help you install (verbally answer questions, etc) what they make
if you give them a call

not everyone out there is condescending .... 8-)

-------------------------------------------------
----------
Posted by: "Sharen Rund" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 15:17:31 1993
Subject: Re: Autolite Nationals at Sears Point
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5946
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Try taking in some Boat Drags. Tons of power, outragous paint jobs and some of 
the wildess rides you'll ever see!!!

 Have fun!!
 Jerry


----------
Posted by: emory!cpd.tandem.com!jerry
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 20:46:42 1993
Subject: High-stall converter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5947
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> change the gearing. I'm a little puzzled by this...by changing to
-> 4.11 gears he would turn about 3600 rpm @ 60 mph. That's not very
-> streetable.

 Look again.  Before the renaissance of overdrive, lots of small cars
and mini-trucks ran 3.90 to 4.11 gears.  4.11s were common for the Chevy
LUV, and Mazda really liked 3.91s.  With those little 13 inch tires,
those engines really buzz.

 Whether 3600 @ 60 is streetable depends on what kind of driving you do.
When I worked across town, 3.6 miles away, practically any ratio would
have been streetable.  When I worked in the next town, 52 miles round
trip... 4.11s would still have been streetable, since traffic seldom
moved faster than 30mph at rush hour anyway.

 The original poster will have to decide how low a ratio he can put up
with.


-> The reason for me asking is that I'm also planning on changing the
-> converter. My car (75 Camaro, modified to about 260 bhp) spins the
-> tires pretty hard at the launch, but when the tires grip the rpm's
-> drop below the power band. This and a bit weak top end give me
-> corrected ET's of about 15.5. I was thinking a bit wilder cam and a
-> high stall converter would rectify this...Am I wrong?

 Dropping below the powerband in first gear?  Normally, a high-stall
convertor is a crutch to keep from bogging down engines that are weak on
the bottom end.  Running a high-stall convertor you don't need will
probably hurt you more than not running one when you *do* need it.


-> If this converter really has 3500rpm stall, will the car be a
-> unstreetable gas hog?

 "Unstreetable" is a matter of opinion, but if it's a true 3500
convertor, every stop light will become an adventure.  Besides revving
the engine up and looking like a jerk, racing convertors tend to "come
in" suddenly, causing the car to leap once it hits the stall point.


 My brother's '52 has a 5500 rpm convertor.  He's taching close to 6000
rpm just to get the thing on and off the trailer, and he can sit there
and go WACKA WACKA WACKA and the thing won't even move an inch unless he
lets the rev climb over 5500-6000.  Of course, he's dealing with a
track-only vehicle that rides around on a trailer.
                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 20:58:51 1993
Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and Mechanics
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5948
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I have seen the tube to housings slip under severe use. We welded the
-> whole joint to stop leakage of rear end grease and stop slippage. A
-> few short welds will work just fine. However, watch the amount of
-> heat applied to the housing.

 Are the GM housings cast iron or nodular?  Any problem getting a good
weld to the mild steel axle tubes?
                                                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 21:08:19 1993
Subject: Hays Stinger ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5949
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have one of those Hays Stinger ignitions in my Cheve SB. It has been
flawless for about 15 years but I am starting to worry about life of
the control box itself. Does anybody know the phone # of Hays so I can
give them a call to possibely get a spare "box"?

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  2 21:14:40 1993
Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and Mechanics
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5950
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The rear I have been wanting to use is apparently out of a '66 Riviera.
The lone upper link is a vertical arm off thr right axle tube 1" outboard
of the pumpkin.  ~ 9.5" ring gear, 3.0x:1 ratio, posi. Very big brake drums
that normal ones will fit completely inside. Panhard mount off the same sheet
metal member as the upper link, but on axle centerline. I would've given up 
on this one a while ago except everything about this rear end is so heavy-
duty-looking.  

  I've got a few rears around which I can cut lower mount brakets off of
to make the rear fit my Skylark; the current lowers are angled in quite
severely (looks like the car it came from was a sort of X-frame).  It's 
the uppers that've got me hesitating. I wouldn't trust my welding ears to
the cast iron to make it a replacement fit. 

 Basically I want a rear end which is well-set-up for aggressive street 
driving (I like to accelerate, threshold brake and corner hard whenever
there's room) but biased  slightly toward good launches. However I don't
want to end up with something that squirrels out on me when I hit a bump.
No ladder bars, etc. The strip-type 4-links I see look awfully weak for 
any application involving side loads or roll too.  It has to last like
OEM ('60s OEM, that is) but handle better.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 05:48:39 1993
Subject: Re:  Fuel Injected 2-stroke Racebikes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5951
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have GM part numbers and prices for Delco-Remy knock sensors if anyone is 
interested. These are tuned response sensors with resonant frequencies between
5 and 7 khz.

Jeff Armfield
cr00jsa@ctccummins.cummins.com

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!cec1!ctccummins!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 05:52:27 1993
Subject: Moving Chev BB back
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5952
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


          Has anybody used Chevy SB or inline 6 frame mounts to move a BB 
          engine back an inch or two?  I have a 68 Camaro body with a heavy 
          BB, and would like to lighten the front-end some. (already moved 
          the battery to the trunk)
          
          I'm concerned about the engine leaning to one side.  Is there a 
          smart way to locate the engine properly using the inboard frame 
          mounts?  I also wonder how much, uh, customizing the firewall 
          will require so that the HEI will fit.  I'm building a custom 
          driveshaft, so I can make it any length required.
          
          I've read that this is an old hotrodder "trick" used as soon as 
          folks figured that the BB engine mounts will attach just fine to 
          all three flavors of frame mount.  Question is, will it be less 
          painful to move the engine back than to save $2000 for aluminum 
          heads?  Thanks.
          
          Eric Webb
          internet ewz@nccibm1.rtpnc.epa.gov


----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 05:56:51 1993
Subject: cylinder head mods/porting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5953
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm going to be porting my small-block Chevy heads soon.  This'll be the
third
set of heads that I've ported.  I have a question for anyone that may have
enough experience to know this:

Does it do any good (or harm) to put a slight radius to the area where the
combustion chamber in the head meets the flat area of the head?

             _____---------_____
         --   ---       ---------  --
      /    /       i  /          i   --
    /     I         II            I   --
   /     I          II            I    --
          I        i  i          i     --
   i        i.___.i    i_      _i     --
   i                      ----        --
    ===================================  <------ RIGHT HERE (HORIZONTALLY)

I did this to the last set of heads I ported, but I don't know if it did
anything besides add a tiny bit to the volume of the head's combustion
chamber.  It seemed that rounding this long corner off would help cut down
the
turbulence in the combustion chamber a little.  Is that a good thing or a bad
thing?

Porting is a hard thing to write about and describe without pictures and
hands
on experience, but is there any other recent little porting tricks besides
match porting, bowl porting, knocking off the sharp casting angles in the
runners, and valve unshrouding.

Porting is one of the few things you can do to your engine (if you've got the
guts to do it) that costs next to nothing and gives you "free horsepower". 
If
you've got a $30.00 die grinder and a $13.00 carbide bit, you can go to town.
Porting's a lot of fun -- it's kind of like sculpting in steel.  When you're
done you have a sense of accomplishment.

While I'm at it with the die grinder, I also knock all the casting flash off
the oil drain-back holes in the heads and block.  It's obvious that a few
minutes with a die-grinder can help with the return flow of oil immensely. 
If
you ever look in an engine with like 250,000 miles on it, that the chunky,
sharp corners on the drain back ports act as little dams to catch all of the
big chunks of sludge, and crap which eventually can plug up the hole
completely, causing the valve covers to spew oil all over the sides of the
engine.

Anyone else done much porting?

Tom 

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 06:01:33 1993
Subject: Re: Fuel Injected 2-stroke Racebikes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5954
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Just a quick note on the Valkenburgh book, in this issue of Racecar
Engineering he, Valkenburgh, had an article on monoshock suspension
systems.  In this article I noticed this sentence:

"In the 1986 edition (ancient history in the racing world) of Race Car
Engineering & Mechanics....."

Anyho....

On Sat, 31 Jul 1993, The Hotrod List wrote: 

> 
> -> The cylinder pressure transducer, BTW, is primarily to reliably 
> ->detect knock. There has been quite a bit written about this in the 
> ->last year in various SAE papers.  This is vastly more reliable than 
> ->acoustic knock sensors for high speed engines. 
> 
> How long do these sensors last in use?  The data would be fascinating. 
> Also, do you have the numbers of any of those SAE papers? 
> 

In the same issue of Racecar Engineering (Vol 3 No 2) an ad on page 79
caught my eye.  The ad is from a Kistler Instruments Ltd., Whiteoaks, The
Grove, Harley Wintney, Hants RG27 8RN, Phone (0252) 84 35 55.  They
obviously make piezo-instrumentation.  The one that caught my eye was the
one that said *NEW: Pressure sensor integrated in spark plug.  The picture
shows a spark plug looking thing with the electrode and insulator slighty
off center with a wedge shaped cutout up to the sensor which shares space
up top with the insulator. 

I would be very interested in these.  Not quite interested enough at the
moment to call them and get more information but if any one of you would
like to call them please post back the price of these bad boys. 

-craig

Seebeck Computer Center
The University of Alabama
(205) 348-9690

----------
Posted by: Craig White 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 12:40:32 1993
Subject: Jim "Super Bell" Ewing (194
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5955
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   Jim "Super Bell" Ewing (1943-1993)

any of you who have anything to do with cars has probably heard of
"Super Bell Axle" - the designer for the original Super Bell, Jim
Ewing, died on 23 July 1993 while at the controls of one of his
planes enroute from CA to his new home in Parker, Arizona - according
to reports his plane struck a cable and plummeted to the ground
killing Jim (I don't know who all was on board with him)

after selling Super Bell, Jim kept busy do test driving, being a
spokesperson for a number of leading auto-related companies,
riding around on his motorcycle and racing

he will be sorely missed by the racing and street/hot rodding crowds
and personally by many of his friends which I was one of - I'll miss
him pulling into Goodguys West Coast Nationals, fresh from the
Bonneville salt flats, with the salt still dropping off his studebaker,
running into him unexpectedly anywhere in the States where there's
a car event or a race happening, at the SEMA show every November,
and a number of times when I didn't expect to see him......

I'm going to miss his ready smile, the hug, and the genuine friendliness
Jim had for everyone he met




----------
Posted by: "Sharen Rund" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 12:48:04 1993
Subject: Re: High-stall converter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5956
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Markus writes:
>The reason for me asking is that I'm also planning on changing the 
>converter. My car (75 Camaro, modified to about 260 bhp) spins the
>tires pretty hard at the launch, but when the tires grip the rpm's
>drop below the power band. This and a bit weak top end give me 
>corrected ET's of about 15.5. I was thinking a bit wilder cam and a
>high stall converter would rectify this...Am I wrong?

You might want to consider a T400 with a switch pitch converter.
The converters have variable-angle vanes and have two stall speeds -
about 1800 RPM in normal mode and about 2800 RPM with the vanes
closed down.  When the vanes are closed down the converter provides
essentially no torque multiplication but it does allow the engine
to get into the power band.  After hookup you can release the vanes
and have a conventional torque converter.

The vane position is controlled by an electrical signal to a
solenoid in the transmission.  Apply 12 volts to get the vanes to
close down.

Regarding streetability and high stall converters: it usually isn't
practical to run more than 2500 RPM on the street.  As other posters
have noted, the torque comes in all at once when you get close to the
stall speed.  And it takes time to rev up the engine to that RPM;
it makes it hard to operate in traffic because of the "all or none"
characteristic of the acceleration.  And the converter generates a
_lot_ of heat when running under load at less than its stall speed.
This can make driving in hilly country problematic.

In any case, you need a transmission cooler when you have a higher-
than-stock stall speed converter.

Bob Hale

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 12:52:44 1993
Subject: New Gasoline Tax
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5957
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	This isn't really on the group's charter, but it *does* have a rather
nasty effect on hotrodding.  I'll keep it short.

	Clinton's compromise tax bill passed the joint House/Senate committee
last night.  Among its foul provisions is a 4.3 cent per gallon hike on the
gasoline tax.  We already pay 14.1 cents per gallon in taxes to the federal
government, almost all of which is wasted.  Between state and local taxes,
the total tax on gasoline amounts to well over 20 cents per gallon.  While
some may favor increased gasoline prices for environmental reasons (I won't
open this can of worms here), giving extra money to the federal government is,
IMHO, the Wrong Answer.

	WE didn't get the government into its fiscal mess, and WE should not
be held responsible for getting it out!

	The bill will come up for a vote in the full House and full Senate on
either Thursday or Friday this week.  It has unanimous Republican opposition,
and a few Democrats have turned against it as well.  The swing is very close.
A letter will not be fast enough:  you must call your representative and both
senators and urge them to vote the bill down.  Your state will have a hotline
that you can call to find out who they are and how you can contact them.

	Anyone interested in nonhotrodding reasons that this bill should die
can email me, as I won't post them here as they're not even remotely related
to motorsports.

	Send requests to behanna@syl.nj.nec.com.  The file is only 70 lines
long or so.

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 12:56:28 1993
Subject: Re:  Hays Stinger ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5958
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 Dunno about Hays themselves but Poston is still selling them (or was last time
I got a catalog) as their only iggy upgrade line.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 21:44:21 1993
Subject: Re: Head porting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5959
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>Head porting
Regarding the question posted about unshrouding the valve by "laying back" the
combustion chamber squish area ... the Buick Power Source book shows several
examples of this.  They recommend that it be done, but to be careful, since
this is a thinner area of the cylinder head.  I've also read that it is a "bad
thing" to modify this area too much, since it effects flame front propagation. 
However, with the turbo motor's small bore and crowded valve spacing, any vaIve
unshrouding that we can HAS to help.

I've played around with porting a couple/three sets of Buick Turbo V6 heads now
and one place that seems to have alot of good porting equipment at fairly
competitve prices is:

Bill Mitchell Products, Inc.
35 Trade Zone Drive Bldg. ND
Ronkonkoma, NY 11779-7369
(516) 737-0372

They have a full page ad in National Dragster for all sorts of interesting
stuff ... "Hard Core Racing Products", as they say....

One of the things that caught my eye was:

Casting & Molding Rubber - "An investment towards winning! A two componenet
liquid polysulfide system used by cylinder head porters and machinists for
making flexible rubber molds of their work.  Excellent for capturing intricate
details.  Gel time can be varied by mixing in different ratios.  Dries to a
firm, strong rubber.  Available in gallon size.   Includes resing and hardener.
Molding RUbber (1 gal) .... BP6008 .... $96.25"

They also had cylinder heads for Chevies, BB Chyslers, Ford... several brands
including Dart, SVO and Merlin.  They have carbide burrs (good prices and all
shapes and lengths, I think I'll buy some from them ... I'm hacking away on
another set of Buick heads), and all sorts of valve gear (springs, keepers,
pushrods, rockers, guide plates, spring testers, etc).

They also have other paraphenalia associated with cylinder head porting, such
as emory rolls ("Tootsie rolls"), die grinders, CC burets, Valve spring
testers, etc.

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... turbo whine and tire smoke ..."


----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 21:53:49 1993
Subject: Re: Hays Stinger ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5960
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



>>Does anybody know the phone # of Hays so I can
>>ive them a call to possibely get a spare "box"?

Try Midway Industries (714) 898-4477, the same guys who make Centerforce
clutches.  They also do distributor rebuilding and recurving.



----------
Posted by: emory!wv.MENTORG.COM!derekd (Derek Deeter)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 21:58:16 1993
Subject: Re: High-stall converter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5961
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 Apparently any TH400 can be converted to make use of switch-pitch converters.
It involves installation of a solenoid (or solenoid valve?) and of course the
converter itself, plus a new case connector. All told it's probably gonna set
you back $200-$300. Not that far out of line with a regular aftermarket 
converter but potentially much more streetable. The switch-pitch converters
came mainly in big, pre-'68 GM cars. I believe you could pick up one of these
(recognizable by a two-wire rather than one-wire connector and (probably) a
funny-looking aluminum tag on the case which says "ST-400 Super Turbine"; 
another clue is the presence of a weird gizmo next to the carb with wires
running to the tranny) and swap out the relevant parts. Since I believe most 
of these were used in BOP cars the Chevy crowd may have to go the retrofit 
route (or use a tranny adaptor plate). 

 Add in some extra low first gears and you'd have a pretty sweet combo. Too
bad low gear sets cost as much as a whole tranny. Maybe here I'll ask again
in case anybody new knows - were there any OEM GM TH400 first gear ratios 
lower than "standard" ever made, maybe for truck duty? I guess normal first 
ratio is something like 1.7:1. Seems like if they made granny manuals maybe
there was an auto counterpart at some point. Can't quite see my way clear to
shelling out >$300 for a planetary gear assembly.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 22:03:52 1993
Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and Mechanics - suspension
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5962
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Well, not exactly, but I have a few theory type questions about rear
>suspensions and stuff.
>
> Torque arm 3-links. The little reading I've done indicates that short arm
>setups squat on acceleration and hop on deceleration. This is where the
>arm is rigid, on centerline and mounted forward. So I wondered late last 
>night, would a torque arm pointing -aft- produce the opposite behavior,
>i.e. plant on accelleration and dig on braking? 

> Traditional GM 4-links. Folks talk about them binding up. I guess this's due
>to the upper arms being splayed, so there's not really a nice parallelogram.
>Is this the main problem, and if the arms/body mounting points were changed 
>to be more parallel would Good Things Happen?

The torque arm and the 4-link are different types of suspensions.  Image the 
ideal linkage system.  All force can only be translate through the links (the 
springs/ shocks/ drive shafts etc do nothing - cept the springs hold up the 
car)  If the links are rigidly mounted (ie torque bar) you can also apply axle 
twisting torque directly to the arm and therefor use the torque to either push 
down or up on the axle (I of course mean axle housing).  Shorter torque arms 
(when pointed forward) create more down force on the rear.  It also lifts the 
rear.  The advantage to this system is its reliable, cheap, and hard to mess 
up.  This system requires a lateral link (pan-hard, watts link, or leaf spring 
etc) to keep the rear from moving side to side.

Properly set up a 4-link is also sort of a flexible torque arm.  The up and 
lower links form a triangle when you extend imaginary lines along the links 
(when looking from the side).  The intersection of these lines create an 
instant center.  This is the imaginary point at which all force is applied.  
Since the forces can only move along the links you in effect turn the axle 
twisting force into a push or a pull.  In theory you don't wast energy in 
lifting  the car you just push the car.  In practice you actually do lift but 
you can control where you lift (esp in relation to the center of gravity of 
the car).  On production vehicles the 4-link is not adjustable and it also 
does double duty as a lateral link.


> Finally, four-links again. Is there any particular advantage to having
>upper liks on the pumpkin (aside from cheapness) as opposed to arms off
>the axle tube? I'd tink you'd want to snub counter-torque at the case

It gives a goodmounting point for the required angle.  The farther the mount 
is from the axle the easier it is to control the torque.

>but leaf-spring cars seem to do fine (well, they get by) without any
>inboard restraint at all. I have a quarter-baked idea about the above sort

Your forgetting one other kind of torque.  Due to the drive shaft twisting 
force the axle tends to pickup the right rear tire and plant the left rear.  
This is why most single track rears spin the right tire.  Controling axle 
torques at the endes allows you to dial in more down force on one side than 
the other.  Torque arms don't let you do this.  When it is not properly set up 
you can see some door-slammers launch unevenly (one side of car higher than 
the other)  For most drag racers starting line traction is the most critical 
and any loss of traction (one side vs. the other) could hamper acceloration.  
Most of then cure it by adding bigger tires.  FYI the NHRA S/AA record is 
about 11.00 with a 3600+ pound car and 9 inch slicks - these are tiny tires by 
drag racing tires (Hemi Challenger).


>of geometry modification by using arms of correct height but located in line 
>with the upper body mounts (not incidentally this allows welding to the steel 
>tube instead of the case pumpkin) and using the existing Panhard mount 
>exclusively for lateral location. At what level of applied torque does 
>axle tube - housing slip become a worry? Do a few beads suffice to prevent 
>it or is this a pro job?

Give more details.  On mustange mailing list there seems to be a concern about 
panhard bars during racing conditions.  During 1g turns - and add a few 
jounces - the panhard ends see 2000 + lbs of pressure.  This is normally 
enough to damage / weak / eventualy break the tall axle mountings required to 
get aroung d stock exhaust etc.

If you want the ultimate for drag racing go with 4-link from Alston or Jegs or 
someone like that.  If you want to do some cornering stick with the torque bar 
and either use the Pan-hard or fabricate a watts-link set-up.  I'm not sure 
what your looking for so I can't be more specific - and I don't know much 
about the ultimate road racing set ups.  As for welding on  a rear axle it 
depends on how much welding you do.  A long bead may require a jig.


> Comments? Psychiatric referrals?

I use the cartoon channel :-)

Dirk
 



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 22:08:54 1993
Subject: Re: High-stall converter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5963
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Bob writes:
-> 
[T400 switch pitch trans info deleted]
-> 
-> Regarding streetability and high stall converters: it usually isn't
-> practical to run more than 2500 RPM on the street.  As other posters
-> have noted, the torque comes in all at once when you get close to the
-> stall speed.  And it takes time to rev up the engine to that RPM;
-> it makes it hard to operate in traffic because of the "all or none"
-> characteristic of the acceleration.  And the converter generates a
-> _lot_ of heat when running under load at less than its stall speed.
-> This can make driving in hilly country problematic.
-> 
-> In any case, you need a transmission cooler when you have a higher-
-> than-stock stall speed converter.
-> 
-> Bob Hale
-> 
-> ----------
-> Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
->  
-> 
I'd like to take exception to the statement to not run more than
2500 RPM stall speed on the street.  I've been running a 3000 RPM
stall speed converter for close to 2 years and I'm very happy with
it.  ('64 Chrysler NY, 413 cid, 4 bbl, TF)  The car is much more
responsive with this converter.  For normal driving, there is very
little difference between this converter and the stock converter.
There is certainly none of the "all or none" as others have described.
Perhaps this is due to the difference in manufacturers.  (Converter
made by Transmission Specialties)  The biggest difference that I have
noticed is that when the car is stopped on a hill, there is a tendency
for it to drift backwards if I release the brake.  On level ground,
the car will even creep a bit if in drive.  Give a small amount of
additional throttle and the car moves off.  Throttle to the floor and
the tach goes to 3000 RPM, and the car moves off as fast as can be
expected for a large, heavy car.  I use the car as my daily driver,
and have driven on the turnpike at 65 MPH for 2 hours at a time with
no apparant problems.

BTW, I did add an auxiliary trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator.

George Kulp

----------
Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 22:13:36 1993
Subject: Vehicle identification
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5964
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I recently came accross a 1976 Limited Edition Trans Am.
>From all my reading it would have been designated code Y82 which
indicates a Trans AM LE w/ 455 cid manual 4 speed and Hurst Hatch
T-tops, complete with special gold trim/accents etc....

However there is no indication in the VIN number that would identify
this as a special model ( only 110 assemblies )

the VIN number looks like : 2W87NW6######
                            ^--^^^^-----^ 
                            |  ||||     |
                            |  ||||     Six digit sequence #
                            |  |||Year (1976)             = 6
                            |  ||Engine Code for pont 455 = W
                            |  |Norwood Plant code        = N 
                            |  Trans Am Coupe code        = W87
                            Poniac Motor Division         = 2


I am confused because this would be the same first 7 digits of a regular
Trans Am with a 455.  Does the Y82 only appear on the build sheet?
If so, it would be a pretty easy task to "dress-up" a regular TA to look
like a special edition. 

I decided not to purchase the vehicle in question due to the fact that it
had once been in an accident which damaged the left rear quarter. It was
repaired but, it was a cut & splice job that will need to be completely
redone. Either way it wont be original.

Anyone know of some good publications on identifing vehicles?

Thanks,

$0.02

EricY

----------
Posted by: (Eric W Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 23:00:33 1993
Subject: Re: New Gasoline Tax
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5965
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Thanks to Chris BeHanna for pointing out the upcoming battle over
fuel taxes in the U.S. Senate and House.

If you don't know your representative's phone number in Washington,
DC, then you can try the general switchboard.  This number is very busy
and it may take a lot of tries to get through: 202-224-3121.

Generally, the representatives have offices near your residence and
the office can tell you the Washington number.

Senators usually have offices in large cities in your state.  Again, these
offices can tell you the phone number(s) for your senators.

If none of the above work for you, then try your state's voting
authority.  In California, it is the Registrar of Voters.  They usually
have the office numbers for the representatives and senators.

Bob Hale

[Before this gets WAAAY off-charter, find following this note a list
of all congresslime and their phone numbers.  I harvested this 
from the net about the time of the Waco Massacre so it should be current.

-------------

If you are as outraged by today's events near Waco, Texas as
I am, please contact your elected federal representatives and
call for Attorney General Janet Reno's resignation and for
an immediate and open investigation of the entire episode.

US Senate, 103rd Congress phone and fax numbers
===============================================

 Information from US Congress Yellow Book, January 1993

p st name                       phone           fax
= == ========================   ==============  ==============
R AK Murkowski, Frank H.        1-202-224-6665  1-202-224-5301
R AK Stevens, Ted               1-202-224-3004  1-202-224-1044
D AL Heflin, Howell T.          1-202-224-4124  1-202-224-3149
D AL Shelby, Richard C.         1-202-224-5744  1-202-224-3416
D AR Bumpers, Dale              1-202-224-4843  1-202-224-6435
D AR Pryor, David               1-202-224-2353  na
D AZ DeConcini, Dennis          1-202-224-4521  1-202-224-2302
R AZ McCain, John               1-202-224-2235  na
D CA Boxer, Barbara             1-202-224-3553  na
D CA Feinstein, Diane           1-202-224-3841  na
D CO Campbell, Ben N.           1-202-225-4761  1-202-225-0228
R CO Brown, Henry               1-202-224-5941  na
D CT Dodd, Christopher J.       1-202-224-2823  na
D CT Lieberman, Joseph I.       1-202-224-4041  1-202-224-9750
D DE Biden Jr., Joseph R.       1-202-224-5042  na
R DE Roth Jr., William V.       1-202-224-2441  1-202-224-2805
D FL Graham, Robert             1-202-224-3041  na
R FL Mack, Connie               1-202-224-5274  1-202-224-8022
D GA Nunn, Samuel               1-202-224-3521  1-202-224-0072
R GA Coverdell, Paul            1-202-224-3643  na
D HI Akaka, Daniel K.           1-202-224-6361  1-202-224-2126
D HI Inouye, Daniel K.          1-202-224-3934  1-202-224-6747
D IA Harkin, Thomas             1-202-224-3254  1-202-224-7431
R IA Grassley, Charles E.       1-202-224-3744  na
R ID Craig, Larry E.            1-202-224-2752  1-202-224-2573
R ID Kempthorne, Dirk           1-202-224-6142  1-202-224-5893
D IL Moseley-Braun, Carol       1-202-224-2854  na
D IL Simon, Paul                1-202-224-2152  1-202-224-0868
R IN Coats, Daniel R.           1-202-224-5623  1-202-224-8964
R IN Lugar, Richard G.          1-202-224-4814  na
R KS Dole, Robert               1-202-224-6521  1-202-224-8952
R KS Kassebaum, Nancy L.        1-202-224-4774  1-202-224-3514
D KY Ford, Wendell H.           1-202-224-4343  na
R KY McConnell, Mitch           1-202-224-2541  1-202-224-2499
D LA Breaux, John B.            1-202-224-4623  na
D LA Johnston, J. Bennett       1-202-224-5824  na
D MA Kennedy, Edward M.         1-202-224-4543  1-202-224-2417
D MA Kerry, John F.             1-202-224-2742  na
D MD Mikulski, Barbara A.       1-202-224-4654  1-202-224-8858
D MD Sarbanes, Paul S.          1-202-224-4524  1-202-224-1651
D ME Mitchell, George J.        1-202-224-5344  na
R ME Cohen, William S.          1-202-224-2523  1-202-224-2693
D MI Levin, Carl                1-202-224-6221  na
D MI Riegle Jr., Donald         1-202-224-4822  1-202-224-8834
D MN Wellstone, Paul            1-202-224-5641  1-202-224-8438
R MN Durenberger, David         1-202-224-3244  na
R MO Bond, Christopher S.       1-202-224-5721  1-202-224-8149
R MO Danforth, John C.          1-202-224-6154  na
R MS Cochran, Thad              1-202-224-5054  na
R MS Lott, Trent                1-202-224-6253  1-202-224-2262
D MT Baucus, Max                1-202-224-2651  na
R MT Burns, Conrad R.           1-202-224-2644  1-202-224-8594
R NC Faircloth, D. M.           1-202-224-3154  1-202-224-7406
R NC Helms, Jesse               1-202-224-6342  na
D ND Conrad, Kent               1-202-224-2043  na
D ND Dorgan, Byron L.           1-202-225-2611  1-202-225-9436
D NE Exon, J. J.                1-202-224-4224  na
D NE Kerrey, Joseph R.          1-202-224-6551  1-202-224-7645
R NH Gregg, Judd                1-202-224-3324  na
R NH Smith, Robert              1-202-224-2841  1-202-224-1353
D NJ Bradley, William           1-202-224-3224  1-202-224-8567
D NJ Lautenberg, Frank R.       1-202-224-4744  1-202-224-9707
D NM Bingaman, Jeff             1-202-224-5521  na
R NM Domenici, Pete V.          1-202-224-6621  1-202-224-7371
D NV Bryan, Richard H.          1-202-224-6244  na
D NV Reid, Harry                1-202-224-3542  1-202-224-7327
D NY Moynihan, Daniel P.        1-202-224-4451  1-202-224-9293
R NY D'Amato, Alfonse M.        1-202-224-6542  1-202-224-5871
D OH Glenn, John                1-202-224-3353  na
D OH Metzenbaum, Howard         1-202-224-2315  1-202-224-6519
D OK Boren, David L.            1-202-224-4721  na
R OK Nickles, Donald            1-202-224-5754  1-202-224-6008
R OR Hatfield, Mark O.          1-202-224-3753  na
R OR Packwood, Robert           1-202-224-5244  na
D PA Wofford, Harris            1-202-224-6324  1-202-224-4161
R PA Specter, Arlen             1-202-224-4254  na
D RI Pell, Claiborne            1-202-224-4642  1-202-224-4680
R RI Chafee, John H.            1-202-224-2921  na
D SC Hollings, Ernest F.        1-202-224-6121  na
R SC Thurmond, Strom            1-202-224-5972  1-202-224-1300
D SD Daschle, Thomas A.         1-202-224-2321  1-202-224-2047
R SD Pressler, Larry            1-202-224-5842  1-202-224-1630
D TN Mathews, Harlan            1-202-224-1036  1-202-228-3679
D TN Sasser, James              1-202-224-3344  na
D TX Krueger, Robert            1-202-224-5922  na
R TX Gramm, Phil                1-202-224-2934  na
R UT Bennett, Robert            1-202-224-5444  na
R UT Hatch, Orrin G.            1-202-224-5251  1-202-224-6331
D VA Robb, Charles S.           1-202-224-4024  1-202-224-8689
R VA Warner, John W.            1-202-224-2023  1-202-224-6295
D VT Leahy, Patrick J.          1-202-224-4242  na
R VT Jeffords, James M.         1-202-224-5141  na
D WA Murray, Patty              1-202-224-2621  1-202-224-0238
R WA Gorton, Slade              1-202-224-3441  1-202-224-9393
D WI Feingold, Russell          1-202-224-5323  na
D WI Kohl, Herbert H.           1-202-224-5653  na
D WV Byrd, Robert C.            1-202-224-3954  1-202-224-4025
D WV Rockefeller, John D.       1-202-224-6472  1-202-224-1689
R WY Simpson, Alan K.           1-202-224-3424  1-202-224-1315
R WY Wallop, Malcolm            1-202-224-6441  1-202-224-3230


103rd Congress phone and fax numbers
====================================

The following information is from the US Congress "Yellow Book," Jan. 1993.
Four seats were vacant at that time, in CA, MS, OH, and WI. The list
below of 436 people includes 5 non-voting members, from Guam (GU), Puerto
Rico (PR), Samoa (SA), Virgin Islands (VI), and DC. (some of those
abbreviations may be wrong)

Corrections welcome.

p st representative                 phone            fax
= == =============================  ==============   ==============
R AK Young, Donald                  1-202-225-5765   1-202-225-5765
D AL Bevill, Thomas                 1-202-225-4876   1-202-225-0842
D AL Browder, Glen                  1-202-225-3261   1-202-225-9020
D AL Cramer Jr, Robert E.           1-202-225-4801   na
D AL Hilliard, Earl F.              1-202-225-2665   na
R AL Bachus, Spencer                1-202-225-4921   na
R AL Callahan, H. L.                1-202-225-4931   1-202-225-0562
R AL Everett, Terry                 1-202-225-2901   na
D AR Lambert, Blanche               1-202-225-4076   na
D AR Thornton, Raymond              1-202-225-2506   1-202-225-9273
R AR Dickey, Jay                    1-202-225-3772   1-202-225-8646
R AR Hutchinson, Tim                1-202-225-4301   na
D AZ Coppersmith, Sam               1-202-225-2635   1-202-225-2607
D AZ English, Karan                 1-202-225-2190   1-202-225-8819
D AZ Pastor, Ed                     1-202-225-4065   1-202-225-1655
R AZ Kolbe, James T.                1-202-225-2542   1-202-225-0378
R AZ Kyl, Jon L.                    1-202-225-3361   na
R AZ Stump, Robert                  1-202-225-4576   1-202-225-6328
D CA Becerra, Xavier                1-202-225-6235   1-202-225-2202
D CA Beilenson, Anthony             1-202-225-5911   na
D CA Berman, Howard L.              1-202-225-4695   na
D CA Brown Jr., George E.           1-202-225-6161   1-202-225-8671
D CA Condit, Gary                   1-202-225-6131   1-202-225-0819
D CA Dellums, Ronald V.             1-202-225-2661   1-202-225-9817
D CA Dixon, Julian C.               1-202-225-7084   1-202-225-4091
D CA Dooley, Calvin M.              1-202-225-3341   1-202-225-9308
D CA Edwards, Donald                1-202-225-3072   1-202-225-9460
D CA Eshoo, Anna G.                 1-202-225-8104   na
D CA Fazio, Vic                     1-202-225-5716   1-202-225-0354
D CA Filner, Bob                    1-202-225-8045   na
D CA Hamburg, Dan                   1-202-225-3311   na
D CA Harman, Jane                   1-202-225-8220   na
D CA Lantos, Thomas                 1-202-225-3531   na
D CA Lehman, Richard H.             1-202-225-4540   na
D CA Martinez, Matthew G.           1-202-225-5464   1-202-225-4467
D CA Matsui, Robert T.              1-202-225-7163   1-202-225-0566
D CA McCandless, Alfred             1-202-225-5330   1-202-226-1040
D CA Miller, George                 1-202-225-2095   1-202-225-5609
D CA Mineta, Norman Y.              1-202-225-2631   na
D CA Pelosi, Nancy                  1-202-225-4965   1-202-225-8259
D CA Roybal-Allard, Lucille         1-202-225-1766   1-202-226-0350
D CA Schenk, Lynn                   1-202-225-2040   1-202-225-2042
D CA Stark, Fortney H.              1-202-225-5065   na
D CA Torres, Esteban E.             1-202-225-5256   na
D CA Tucker III, Walter R.          1-202-225-7924   1-202-225-7926
D CA Waters, Maxine                 1-202-225-2201   na
D CA Waxman, Henry A.               1-202-225-3976   1-202-225-4099
D CA Woolsey, Lynn                  1-202-225-5161   na
R CA Baker, Bill                    1-202-225-1880   1-202-225-2150
R CA Calvert, Ken                   1-202-225-1986   na
R CA Cox, Christopher               1-202-225-5611   1-202-225-9177
R CA Cunningham, Randy              1-202-225-5452   1-202-225-2558
R CA Doolittle, John T.             1-202-225-2511   1-202-225-5444
R CA Dornan, Robert K.              1-202-225-2965   1-202-225-3694
R CA Dreier, David                  1-202-225-2305   1-202-225-4745
R CA Gallegly, Elton                1-202-225-5811   na
R CA Herger, Walter W.              1-202-225-3076   1-202-225-1609
R CA Horn, Steve                    1-202-225-6676   na
R CA Huffington, Michael            1-202-225-3601   na
R CA Hunter, Duncan L.              1-202-225-5672   1-202-225-0235
R CA Kim, Jay C.                    1-202-225-3201   1-202-226-1485
R CA Lewis, Jerry                   1-202-225-5861   1-202-225-6498
R CA McKeon, Howard P.              1-202-225-1956   1-202-226-0683
R CA Moorhead, Carlos J.            1-202-225-4176   1-202-226-1279
R CA Packard, Ronald                1-202-225-3906   1-202-225-0134
R CA Pombo, Richard                 1-202-225-1947   1-202-226-0861
R CA Rohrabacher, Dana              1-202-225-2415   1-202-225-7067
R CA Royce, Ed                      1-202-225-4111   na
R CA Thomas, Bill                   1-202-225-2915   na
D CO Schroeder, Patricia            1-202-225-4431   1-202-225-5842
D CO Skaggs, David E.               1-202-225-2161   na
R CO Allard, Wayne                  1-202-225-4676   1-202-225-8630
R CO Hefley, Joel                   1-202-225-4422   1-202-225-1942
R CO McInnis, Scott                 1-202-225-4761   1-202-226-0622
R CO Schaefer, Daniel               1-202-225-7882   1-202-225-7885
D CT DeLauro, Rosa                  1-202-225-3661   1-202-225-4890
D CT Gejdenson, Samuel              1-202-225-2076   1-202-225-4977
D CT Kennelly, Barbara B.           1-202-225-2265   1-202-225-1031
R CT Franks, Gary                   1-202-225-3822   1-202-225-5085
R CT Johnson, Nancy L.              1-202-225-4476   1-202-225-4488
R CT Shays, Christopher             1-202-225-5541   1-202-225-9629
D DC Norton, Eleanor Holmes         1-202-225-8050   1-202-225-3002
R DE Castle, Michael N.             1-202-225-4165   1-202-225-2291
D FL Bacchus, James                 1-202-225-3671   1-202-225-9039
D FL Brown, Corrine                 1-202-225-0123   1-202-225-2256
D FL Deutsch, Peter                 1-202-225-7931   1-202-225-8456
D FL Gibbons, Samuel M.             1-202-225-3376   na
D FL Hastings, Alcee L.             1-202-225-1313   1-202-225-0690
D FL Hutto, Earl                    1-202-225-4136   1-202-225-5785
D FL Johnston II, Harry             1-202-225-3001   1-202-225-8791
D FL Meek, Carrie                   1-202-225-4506   1-202-226-0777
D FL Peterson, Peter                1-202-225-5235   1-202-225-1586
R FL Bilirakis, Michael             1-202-225-5755   1-202-225-4085
R FL Canady, Charles T.             1-202-225-1252   na
R FL Diaz-Balart, Lincoln           1-202-225-4211   1-202-225-8576
R FL Fowler, Tillie                 1-202-225-2501   na
R FL Goss, Porter J.                1-202-225-2536   1-202-225-6820
R FL Lewis, Thomas                  1-202-225-5792   1-202-225-1860
R FL McCollum, William              1-202-225-2176   na
R FL Mica, John L.                  1-202-225-4035   1-202-226-0821
R FL Miller, Dan                    1-202-225-5015   1-202-226-0828
R FL Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana           1-202-225-3931   1-202-225-5620
R FL Shaw Jr., E. C.                1-202-225-3026   1-202-225-8398
R FL Stearns, Clifford B.           1-202-225-5744   1-202-225-3973
R FL Thurman, Carol L.              1-202-225-1002   1-202-226-0329
R FL Young, C. W.                   1-202-225-5961   1-202-225-9764
D GA Bishop, Sanford                1-202-225-3631   1-202-225-2203
D GA Darden III, George             1-202-225-2931   na
D GA Deal, Nathan                   1-202-225-5211   1-202-225-8272
D GA Johnson, Don                   1-202-225-4101   1-202-226-1466
D GA Lewis, John                    1-202-225-3801   1-202-225-0351
D GA McKinney, Cynthia              1-202-225-1605   1-202-226-0691
D GA Rowland, J. R.                 1-202-225-6531   na
R GA Collins, Mac                   1-202-225-5901   1-202-225-2515
R GA Gingrich, Newt                 1-202-225-4501   1-202-225-4656
R GA Kingston, Jack                 1-202-225-5831   1-202-226-2269
R GA Linder, John                   1-202-225-4272   na
D GU Underwood, Robert A.           1-202-225-1188   1-202-226-0341
D HI Abercrombie, Neil              1-202-225-2726   na
D HI Mink, Patsy T.                 1-202-225-4906   1-202-225-4987
D IA Smith, Neal                    1-202-225-4426   na
R IA Grandy, Fred                   1-202-225-5476   na
R IA Leach, James                   1-202-225-6576   1-202-226-1278
R IA Lightfoot, James R.            1-202-225-3806   1-202-225-6973
R IA Nussle, James Allen            1-202-225-2911   1-202-225-9129
D ID LaRocco, Larry                 1-202-225-6611   na
R ID Crapo, Michael D.              1-202-225-5531   na
D IL Collins, Cardiss               1-202-225-5006   1-202-225-8396
D IL Costello, Jerry F.             1-202-225-5661   1-202-225-0285
D IL Durbin, Richard J.             1-202-225-5271   1-202-225-0170
D IL Evans, Lane                    1-202-225-5905   1-202-225-5396
D IL Lipinski, William O.           1-202-225-5701   1-202-225-1012
D IL Poshard, Glendal W.            1-202-225-5201   1-202-225-1541
D IL Reynolds, Mel                  1-202-225-0773   na
D IL Rostenkowski, Daniel           1-202-225-4061   na
D IL Rush, Bobby L.                 1-202-225-4372   1-202-226-0333
D IL Sangmeister, George            1-202-225-3635   1-202-225-4447
D IL Yates, Sidney R.               1-202-225-2111   1-202-225-3493
R IL Crane, Philip M.               1-202-225-3711   na
R IL Ewing, Thomas                  1-202-225-2371   1-202-225-8071
R IL Fawell, Harris W.              1-202-225-3515   1-202-225-9420
R IL Gutierrez, Luis V.             1-202-225-8203   1-202-225-7810
R IL Hastert, J. D.                 1-202-225-2976   1-202-225-0697
R IL Hyde, Henry J.                 1-202-225-4561   1-202-226-1240
R IL Manzullo, Donald               1-202-225-5676   1-202-225-5284
R IL Michel, Robert H.              1-202-225-6201   1-202-225-9461
R IL Porter, John E.                1-202-225-4835   1-202-225-0157
D IN Buyer, Steve                   1-202-225-5037   na
D IN Hamilton, Lee H.               1-202-225-5315   1-202-225-1101
D IN Jacobs Jr., Andrew             1-202-225-4011   na
D IN Long, Jill                     1-202-225-4436   na
D IN McCloskey, Frank               1-202-225-4636   1-202-225-4688
D IN Roemer, Timothy                1-202-225-3915   1-202-225-6798
D IN Sharp, Philip R.               1-202-225-3021   na
D IN Visclosky, Peter J.            1-202-225-2461   1-202-225-2493
R IN Burton, Daniel                 1-202-225-2276   1-202-225-0016
R IN Myers, John T.                 1-202-225-5805   na
D KS Glickman, Daniel               1-202-225-6216   na
D KS Slattery, James                1-202-225-6601   1-202-225-1445
R KS Meyers, Jan                    1-202-225-2865   1-202-225-0554
R KS Roberts, Pat                   1-202-225-2715   1-202-225-5375
D KY Baesler, Scotty                1-202-225-4706   na
D KY Barlow, Tom                    1-202-225-3115   1-202-225-2169
D KY Mazzoli, Romano L.             1-202-225-5401   na
D KY Natcher, William H.            1-202-225-3501   na
R KY Bunning, James                 1-202-225-3465   1-202-225-0003
R KY Rogers, Harold                 1-202-225-4601   1-202-225-0940
D LA Fields, Cleo                   1-202-225-8490   1-202-225-8959
D LA Hayes, James A.                1-202-225-2031   1-202-225-1175
D LA Jefferson, William             1-202-225-6636   1-202-225-1988
D LA Tauzin, W. J.                  1-202-225-4031   1-202-225-0563
R LA Baker, Richard H.              1-202-225-3901   1-202-225-7313
R LA Livingston, Robert             1-202-225-3015   1-202-225-0739
R LA McCrery, James                 1-202-225-2777   1-202-225-8039
D MA Frank, Barney                  1-202-225-5931   1-202-225-0182
D MA Kennedy II, Joseph P.          1-202-225-5111   1-202-225-9322
D MA Markey, Edward J.              1-202-225-2836   1-202-225-8689
D MA Meehan, Martin T.              1-202-225-3411   1-202-226-0771
D MA Moakley, John Joseph           1-202-225-8273   1-202-225-7304
D MA Neal, Richard E.               1-202-225-5601   1-202-225-8112
D MA Olver, John W.                 1-202-225-5335   1-202-226-1224
D MA Studds, Gerry E.               1-202-225-3111   1-202-225-2212
R MA Blute, Peter I.                1-202-225-6101   1-202-225-2217
R MA Torkildsen, Peter G.           1-202-225-8020   1-202-225-8037
D MD Cardin, Benjamin L.            1-202-225-4016   na
D MD Hoyer, Steny H.                1-202-225-4131   1-202-225-4300
D MD Mfume, Kweisi                  1-202-225-4741   1-202-225-3178
D MD Wynn, Albert R.                1-202-225-8699   1-202-225-8714
R MD Bartlett, Roscoe G.            1-202-225-2721   na
R MD Bentley, Helen D.              1-202-225-3061   1-202-225-4251
R MD Gilchrest, Wayne T.            1-202-225-5311   1-202-225-0254
R MD Morella, Constance             1-202-225-5341   1-202-225-1389
D ME Andrews, Thomas H.             1-202-225-6116   1-202-225-9065
R ME Snowe, Olympia J.              1-202-225-6306   na
D MI Barcia, James A.               1-202-225-8171   1-202-225-2168
D MI Bonior, David E.               1-202-225-2106   1-202-226-1169
D MI Carr, Robert                   1-202-225-4872   1-202-225-1260
D MI Collins Jr., Barbara           1-202-225-2261   1-202-225-6645
D MI Conyers Jr., John              1-202-225-5126   1-202-225-0072
D MI Dingell, John D.               1-202-225-4071   1-202-225-7426
D MI Ford, William D.               1-202-225-6261   na
D MI Kildee, Dale E.                1-202-225-3611   na
D MI Levin, Sander M.               1-202-225-4961   1-202-226-1033
D MI Stupak, Bart                   1-202-225-4735   1-202-225-4744
R MI Camp, David Lee                1-202-225-3561   1-202-225-9679
R MI Henry, Paul B.                 1-202-225-3831   na
R MI Hoekstra, Peter                1-202-225-4401   na
R MI Knollenberg, Joe               1-202-225-5802   1-202-226-2356
R MI Smith, Nick                    1-202-225-6276   na
R MI Upton, Frederick S.            1-202-225-3761   1-202-225-4986
D MN Minge, David                   1-202-225-2331   na
D MN Oberstar, James L.             1-202-225-6211   1-202-225-0699
D MN Penny, Timothy J.              1-202-225-2472   1-202-225-0051
D MN Peterson, Collin C.            1-202-225-2165   1-202-225-1593
D MN Sabo, Martin O.                1-202-225-4755   na
D MN Vento, Bruce F.                1-202-225-6631   na
R MN Grams, Rod                     1-202-225-2271   1-202-225-9802
R MN Ramstad, James M.              1-202-225-2871   1-202-225-6351
D MO Clay, William L.               1-202-225-2406   1-202-225-1725
D MO Danner, Pat                    1-202-225-7041   na
D MO Gephardt, Richard A.           1-202-225-2671   1-202-225-7452
D MO Skelton, Ike                   1-202-225-2876   1-202-225-2695
D MO Volkmer, Harold L.             1-202-225-2956   1-202-225-7834
D MO Wheat, Alan                    1-202-225-4535   1-202-225-5990
R MO Emerson, Bill                  1-202-225-4404   1-202-225-9621
R MO Hancock, Melton D.             1-202-225-6536   1-202-225-7700
R MO Talent, James M.               1-202-225-2561   1-202-225-2563
D MS Montgomery, G. V.              1-202-225-5031   1-202-225-3375
D MS Parker, Paul M.                1-202-225-5865   1-202-225-5886
D MS Taylor, Gene                   1-202-225-5772   1-202-225-7074
D MS Whitten, Jamie L.              1-202-225-4306   1-202-225-4328
D MT Williams, Pat                  1-202-225-3211   na
D NC Clayton, Eva                   1-202-225-3101   na
D NC Hefner, W. G.                  1-202-225-3715   1-202-225-4036
D NC Lancaster, H. M.               1-202-225-3415   1-202-225-0666
D NC Neal, Stephen L.               1-202-225-2071   1-202-225-4060
D NC Price, David E.                1-202-225-1784   1-202-225-6314
D NC Rose, Charles                  1-202-225-2731   1-202-225-2470
D NC Valentine, Tim                 1-202-225-4531   1-202-225-1539
D NC Watt, Melvin                   1-202-225-1510   1-202-225-1512
R NC Ballenger, Thomas C.           1-202-225-2576   1-202-225-0316
R NC Coble, Howard                  1-202-225-3065   1-202-225-8611
R NC McMillan, J. A.                1-202-225-1976   na
R NC Taylor, Charles Hart           1-202-225-6401   1-202-251-0794
D ND Pomeroy, Earl                  1-202-225-2611   1-202-226-0893
D NE Hoagland, Peter                1-202-225-4155   na
R NE Barrett, William E.            1-202-225-6435   na
R NE Bereuter, Douglas              1-202-225-4806   1-202-226-1148
D NH Swett, Richard N.              1-202-225-5206   na
R NH Zeliff Jr., William            1-202-225-5456   1-202-225-4370
D NJ Andrews, Robert E.             1-202-225-6501   na
D NJ Hughes, William J.             1-202-225-6572   1-202-226-1108
D NJ Klein, Herbert C.              1-202-225-5751   na
D NJ Menendez, Robert               1-202-225-7919   1-202-226-0792
D NJ Pallone Jr., Frank             1-202-225-4671   1-202-225-9665
D NJ Payne, Donald M.               1-202-225-3436   1-202-225-4160
D NJ Torricelli, Robert             1-202-224-5061   1-202-225-0843
R NJ Franks, Bob                    1-202-225-5361   1-202-225-9460
R NJ Gallo, Dean A.                 1-202-225-5034   1-202-225-0658
R NJ Roukema, Marge                 1-202-225-4465   1-202-225-9048
R NJ Saxton, H. J.                  1-202-225-4765   1-202-225-0778
R NJ Smith, Christopher             1-202-225-3765   1-202-225-7768
R NJ Zimmer, Richard A.             1-202-225-5801   1-202-225-9181
D NM Richardson, William            1-202-225-6190   na
R NM Schiff, Steven H.              1-202-225-6316   1-202-225-4975
R NM Skeen, Joseph                  1-202-225-2365   1-202-225-9599
D NV Bilbray, James H.              1-202-225-5965   1-202-225-8808
R NV Vucanovich, Barbara            1-202-225-6155   1-202-225-2319
D NY Ackerman, Gary L.              1-202-225-2601   na
D NY Engel, Eliot L.                1-202-225-2464   na
D NY Flake, Floyd H.                1-202-225-3461   1-202-226-4169
D NY Hinchey, Maurice D.            1-202-225-6335   na
D NY Hochbrueckner, G.              1-202-225-3826   1-202-225-0776
D NY LaFalce, John J.               1-202-225-3231   na
D NY Lowey, Nita M.                 1-202-225-6506   1-202-225-0546
D NY Maloney, Carolyn B.            1-202-225-7944   na
D NY Manton, Thomas J.              1-202-225-3965   na
D NY McNulty, Michael R.            1-202-225-5076   1-202-225-5077
D NY Nadler, Jerrold                1-202-225-5635   1-202-225-6923
D NY Owens, Major R.                1-202-225-6231   1-202-226-0112
D NY Rangel, Charles B.             1-202-225-4365   1-202-225-0816
D NY Schumer, Charles E.            1-202-225-6616   1-202-225-4183
D NY Serrano, Jose E.               1-202-225-4361   1-202-225-6001
D NY Slaughter, Louise M.           1-202-225-3615   1-202-225-7822
D NY Towns, Edolphus                1-202-225-5936   1-202-225-1018
D NY Velazquez, Nydia M.            1-202-225-2361   1-202-226-0327
R NY Boehlert, Sherwood             1-202-225-3665   1-202-225-1891
R NY Fish Jr., Hamilton             1-202-225-5441   1-202-225-0962
R NY Gilman, Benjamin A.            1-202-225-3776   na
R NY Houghton, Amory                1-202-225-3161   1-202-225-5574
R NY King, Peter T.                 1-202-225-7896   1-202-226-2279
R NY Lazio, Rick A.                 1-202-225-3335   na
R NY Levy, David A.                 1-202-225-5516   1-202-225-4672
R NY McHugh, John M.                1-202-225-4611   na
R NY Molinari, Susan                1-202-225-3371   1-202-226-1272
R NY Paxon, L. W.                   1-202-225-5265   1-202-225-5910
R NY Quinn, Jack                    1-202-225-3306   1-202-226-0347
R NY Solomon, Gerald B.             1-202-225-5614   1-202-225-1168
R NY Walsh, James T.                1-202-225-3701   1-202-225-4042
D OH Applegate, Douglas             1-202-225-6265   na
D OH Brown, Sherrod                 1-202-225-3401   na
D OH Fingerhut, Eric D.             1-202-225-5731   na
D OH Hall, Tony P.                  1-202-225-6465   na
D OH Kaptur, Marcy                  1-202-225-4146   1-202-225-7711
D OH Mann, Davis S.                 1-202-225-2216   na
D OH Sawyer, Thomas C.              1-202-225-5231   1-202-225-5278
D OH Stokes, Louis                  1-202-225-7032   1-202-225-1339
D OH Strickland, Ted                1-202-225-5705   1-202-226-0331
D OH Traficant Jr., James           1-202-225-5261   1-202-225-3719
R OH Boehner, John Andrew           1-202-225-6205   1-202-225-0704
R OH Gillmor, Paul E.               1-202-225-6405   na
R OH Hobson, David L.               1-202-225-4324   na
R OH Hoke, Martin R.                1-202-225-5871   1-202-226-0994
R OH Kasich, John R.                1-202-225-5355   na
R OH Oxley, Michael G.              1-202-225-2676   na
R OH Pryce, Deborah                 1-202-225-2015   1-202-226-0986
R OH Regula, Ralph                  1-202-225-3876   1-202-225-3059
D OK Brewster, Billy Kent           1-202-225-4565   na
D OK English, Glenn                 1-202-225-5565   1-202-225-8698
D OK McCurdy, David                 1-202-225-6165   1-202-225-9746
D OK Synar, Michael                 1-202-225-2701   1-202-225-2796
R OK Inhofe, James M.               1-202-225-2211   1-202-225-9187
R OK Istook, Ernest Jim             1-202-225-2132   na
D OR DeFazio, Peter A.              1-202-225-6416   na
D OR Furse, Elizabeth               1-202-225-0855   na
D OR Kopetski, Michael J.           1-202-225-5711   1-202-225-9477
D OR Wyden, Ronald                  1-202-225-4811   na
R OR Smith, Robert F.               1-202-225-6730   na
D PA Blackwell, Lucien E.           1-202-225-4001   1-202-225-7362
D PA Borski, Robert A.              1-202-225-8251   1-202-225-4628
D PA Coyne, William J.              1-202-225-2301   na
D PA Foglietta, Thomas M.           1-202-225-4731   1-202-225-0088
D PA Holden, Tim                    1-202-225-5546   1-202-226-0996
D PA Kanjorski, Paul E.             1-202-225-6511   1-202-225-9024
D PA Klink, Ron                     1-202-225-2565   na
D PA Margolies-Mezvinsky, Marjorie  1-202-225-6111   1-202-226-0798
D PA McHale, Paul                   1-202-225-6411   1-202-225-5320
D PA Murphy, Austin J.              1-202-225-4665   1-202-225-4772
D PA Murtha, John P.                1-202-225-2065   1-202-225-5709
R PA Clinger Jr., William           1-202-225-5121   1-202-225-4681
R PA Gekas, George W.               1-202-225-4315   1-202-225-8440
R PA Goodling, William F.           1-202-225-5836   1-202-226-1000
R PA Greenwood, Jim                 1-202-225-4276   1-202-225-9511
R PA McDade, Joseph M.              1-202-225-3731   1-202-225-9594
R PA Ridge, Thomas J.               1-202-225-5406   na
R PA Santorum, Richard J.           1-202-225-2135   1-202-225-7747
R PA Shuster, Bud                   1-202-225-2431   na
R PA Walker, Robert S.              1-202-225-2411   na
R PA Weldon, Curt                   1-202-225-2011   1-202-225-8137
D PR Romero-Barcelo, Carlos         1-202-225-2615   1-202-225-2154
D RI Reed, John F.                  1-202-225-2735   1-202-225-9580
R RI Machtley, Ronald K.            1-202-225-4911   1-202-225-4417
D SA Faleomavaega, Eni F.H.         1-202-225-8577   na
D SC Clyburn, James E.              1-202-225-3315   1-202-225-2302
D SC Derrick, Butler                1-202-225-5301   na
D SC Spratt Jr., John M.            1-202-225-5501   1-202-225-0464
R SC Inglis, Bob                    1-202-225-6030   na
R SC Ravenel Jr., Arthur            1-202-225-3176   na
R SC Spence, Floyd                  1-202-225-2452   1-202-225-2455
D SD Johnson, Timothy P.            1-202-225-2801   1-202-225-2427
D TN Clement, Robert                1-202-225-4311   1-202-226-1035
D TN Cooper, James                  1-202-225-6831   1-202-225-4520
D TN Ford, Harold E.                1-202-225-3265   na
D TN Lloyd, Marilyn                 1-202-225-3271   1-202-225-6974
D TN Tanner, John S.                1-202-225-4714   1-202-225-1765
R TN Duncan Jr., John J.            1-202-225-5435   1-202-225-6440
R TN Gordon, Bart                   1-202-225-4231   1-202-225-6887
R TN Quillen, James H.              1-202-225-6356   1-202-225-7812
R TN Sundquist, Donald              1-202-225-2811   1-202-225-2814
D TX Andrews, Michael A.            1-202-255-7508   na
D TX Brooks, Jack                   1-202-225-6565   1-202-225-1584
D TX Bryant, John                   1-202-225-2231   na
D TX Chapman, Jim                   1-202-225-3035   1-202-225-7265
D TX Coleman, Ronald D.             1-202-225-4831   na
D TX Edwards, Chet                  1-202-225-6105   1-202-225-0350
D TX Frost, Martin                  1-202-225-3605   1-202-225-4951
D TX Geren, Peter                   1-202-225-5071   1-202-225-2786
D TX Gonzalez, Henry B.             1-202-225-3236   1-202-225-1915
D TX Green, Gene                    1-202-225-1688   1-202-225-9903
D TX Hall, Ralph M.                 1-202-225-6673   1-202-225-3332
D TX Johnson, Eddie Bernice         1-202-225-8885   na
D TX Laughlin, Gregory H.           1-202-225-2831   1-202-225-1108
D TX Ortiz, Solomon P.              1-202-225-7742   1-202-226-1134
D TX Pickle, J. J.                  1-202-225-4865   na
D TX Sarpalius, Bill                1-202-225-3706   1-202-225-6142
D TX Stenholm, Charles W.           1-202-225-6605   1-202-225-2234
D TX Tejeda, Frank                  1-202-225-1640   na
D TX Washington, Craig A.           1-202-225-3816   na
D TX Wilson, Charles                1-202-225-2401   1-202-225-1764
D TX de la Garza, E                 1-202-225-2531   1-202-225-2534
R TX Archer, William                1-202-225-2571   1-202-225-4381
R TX Armey, Richard K.              1-202-225-7772   1-202-225-7614
R TX Barton, Joseph                 1-202-225-2002   1-202-225-3052
R TX Bonilla, Henry                 1-202-225-4511   na
R TX Combest, Larry                 1-202-225-4005   na
R TX DeLay, Thomas                  1-202-225-5951   na
R TX Fields, Jack                   1-202-225-4901   na
R TX Johnson, Sam                   1-202-225-4201   na
R TX Smith, Lamar S.                1-202-225-4236   1-202-225-8628
D UT Orton, William H.              1-202-225-7751   1-202-226-1223
D UT Shepherd, Karen                1-202-225-3011   1-202-226-0354
R UT Hansen, James V.               1-202-225-0453   1-202-225-5857
D VA Boucher, Rick                  1-202-225-3861   na
D VA Byrne, Leslie L.               1-202-225-1492   na
D VA Moran Jr., James P.            1-202-225-4376   1-202-225-0017
D VA Payne Jr., Lewis F.            1-202-225-4711   1-202-226-1147
D VA Pickett, Owen B.               1-202-225-4215   1-202-225-4218
D VA Scott, Robert C.               1-202-225-8351   1-202-225-3854
D VA Sisisky, Norman                1-202-225-6365   1-202-226-1170
R VA Bateman, Herbert H.            1-202-225-4261   1-202-225-4382
R VA Bliley Jr., Thomas J.          1-202-225-2815   na
R VA Goodlatte, Robert W.           1-202-225-5431   1-202-225-9681
R VA Wolf, Frank R.                 1-202-225-5136   na
D VI de Lugo, Ron                   1-202-225-1790   1-202-225-9392
I VT Sanders, Bernard               1-202-225-4115   1-202-225-6790
D WA Cantwell, Maria                1-202-225-6311   1-202-225-2286
D WA Dicks, Norman D.               1-202-225-5916   na
D WA Foley, Thomas S.               1-202-225-2006   na
D WA Inslee, Jay                    1-202-225-5816   1-202-226-1137
D WA Kreidler, Mike                 1-202-225-8901   1-202-226-2361
D WA McDermott, James A.            1-202-225-3106   1-202-225-9212
D WA Swift, Al                      1-202-225-2605   1-202-225-2608
D WA Unsoeld, Jolene                1-202-225-3536   1-202-225-9095
R WA Dunn, Jennifer                 1-202-225-7761   na
D WI Barrett, Thomas M.             1-202-225-3571   na
D WI Gunderson, Steve               1-202-225-5506   1-202-225-6195
D WI Kleczka, Gerald D.             1-202-225-4572   na
D WI Obey, David R.                 1-202-225-3365   na
R WI Klug, Scott                    1-202-225-2906   na
R WI Petri, Thomas E.               1-202-225-2476   1-202-225-2356
R WI Roth, Toby                     1-202-225-5665   1-202-225-0087
R WI Sensenbrenner, F. J.           1-202-225-5101   1-202-225-3190
D WV Mollohan, Alan B.              1-202-225-4172   1-202-225-7564
D WV Rahall II, Nick Joe            1-202-225-3452   1-202-225-9061
D WV Wise Jr., Robert E.            1-202-225-2711   1-202-225-7856
R WY Thomas, Craig                  1-202-225-2311   1-202-225-0726
-- 
**************************************************************
* Ron Phillips               crphilli@hound.dazixca.ingr.com *
* Senior Customer Engineer                                   *
* Intergraph Electronics                                     *
* 381 East Evelyn Avenue               VOICE: (415) 691-6473 *
* Mountain View, CA 94041              FAX:   (415) 691-0350 *
**************************************************************

JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 23:56:29 1993
Subject: Re: Hays Stinger ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5966
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 I think I have some info on Hays. I check my files and get 
back to you.
  
 Jerry

----------
Posted by: emory!cpd.tandem.com!jerry
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug  3 23:58:02 1993
Subject: Re:  Fuel Injected 2-stroke Racebikes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5967
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I have GM part numbers and prices for Delco-Remy knock sensors if
-> anyone is interested. These are tuned response sensors with resonant
-> frequencies between 5 and 7 khz.

 Lay 'em on us!
                                                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 00:02:55 1993
Subject: cylinder head mods/porting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5968
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> chamber.  It seemed that rounding this long corner off would help cut
-> down the
-> turbulence in the combustion chamber a little.  Is that a good thing
-> or a bad thing?

 Generally it's bad.  You want as much turbulence as you can get -
that's one reason you have a quench area in the first place.  Take a
look at some pictures of professionally-ported heads and you'll see they
try to keep that sharp edge.


-> Anyone else done much porting?

 Does that pile of burned-out Moto-Tools give you a hint?  
Even the big 1/4-hp die grinders get too hot to hold after a short time.
The real solution is AIR!  Yes, an air die grinder has its problems too
- sure, they're lighter and blow the shavings away, but instead of
blisters you get frostbite.
                                                              
[Yup.  Just retired my very first grinder that I bought in 1969.  Black
and Decker (back when they made actual, usable tools) made the beast
but they quit stocking spare parts for it.  This'un is like the old 
farmer's ax.  4 or 5 sets of vanes, a couple of sets of bearings,
3 or 4 collets but it still a good old grinder :-)  The important 
things to look for are speed (the more the better) and smallness
of the collet.  A good collet is no more than 1/2" in diameter.
My B&D was rated at 35,000 RPM @ 90 psi but clocked out according
to the Strobo-tach at 60,000 on 175 psi air.  They say don't do it 
but what hotrodder has ever followed the instructions? :-)
A 1/8" pencil grinder is very handy.  It will do all those things 
the electric ones promise but can't deliver.

Carbide burrs, of course.  Never waste money on anything else.  They'll
last a lifetime if you don't bend 'em and can be resharpened.  At least
a few long shank burrs are necessary.  At the minimum, a ball and tulip.
Several companys that advertise in Circle Track and the likes sell kits
of burrs very reasonably priced.  Expect to pay at least $15 a burr,
typically $20.  Avoid being talked into getting "aluminum burrs" even if
you're doing aluminum.  These have great gouging flutes that take pounds
of metal off at a time and leaves a finish that resembles a small grand
canyon.  Aluminum will stick in the flutes of the fine burrs but that
can be remedied with a stick of beeswax kept handy.  Just touch a warm
burr to it every so often and the metal just flys off.  WD-40 also works
(perhaps the ONLY good use for this stuff?) though it is more expensive.
JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 00:07:42 1993
Subject: RE: cylinder head mods/porting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5969
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Does it do any good (or harm) to put a slight radius to the area where the
>combustion chamber in the head meets the flat area of the head?


             _____---------_____
         --   ---       ---------  --
      /    /       i  /          i   --
    /     I         II            I   --
   /     I          II            I    --
          I        i  i          i     --
   i        i.___.i    i_      _i     --
   i                      ----        --
    ===================================  <------ RIGHT HERE (HORIZONTALLY)

By the looks of the ASCII drawing I'd say you might be doing harm.  Just 
before ignition the air/fuel mixture is supposed to squished out towards the 
spark plug / flame front.  Anyfuel thats left will probably burn late. If 
your using dome pistons you have to make sure the fuel can get out. 

>I did this to the last set of heads I ported, but I don't know if it did
>anything besides add a tiny bit to the volume of the head's combustion
>chamber.  It seemed that rounding this long corner off would help cut down
>the
>turbulence in the combustion chamber a little.  Is that a good thing or a 
bad
>thing?

I guess it depends.  Turbulence can help keep fuel mixed with the air.
For this reason some of the theory on head porting recommends not
poloshing intake runners and actually adding dimples to the combustion
chamber on aluminum heads (cast iron may crack).

>Porting is a hard thing to write about and describe without pictures and
>hands
>on experience, but is there any other recent little porting tricks besides
>match porting, bowl porting, knocking off the sharp casting angles in the
>runners, and valve unshrouding.

Polishing the combustion chamber...  reduces tendancy to detonation and
resists carbon build up.  Make sure that each port is as close to each
other as possible.  Failure to do so could mean that the air fuel ration
to each cylinder would be slightly different - requiring slightly
different timing - or an MSD to get the efficiency back.

>Porting is one of the few things you can do to your engine (if you've got 
the
>guts to do it) that costs next to nothing and gives you "free horsepower". 
>If
>you've got a $30.00 die grinder and a $13.00 carbide bit, you can go to 
town.
>Porting's a lot of fun -- it's kind of like sculpting in steel.  When 
you're
>done you have a sense of accomplishment.

Go slow and don't try anything fancy.  Those $45 dollors worth of tools
can quickly turn your heads into a piece of junk.  For reliable results
have the heads flow tested on a professional bench.  Better yet run the
engine on a dyno to see what is really going on.  The variables for
proper port are so daunting that all-out port is best left to a pro
(read "someone with alot of time and money and the tools to do it right"
- not me).  Mild bowl porting, smoothing flash, and gasket matching are
the only things I'm willing to try.

>While I'm at it with the die grinder, I also knock all the casting flash 
off
>the oil drain-back holes in the heads and block.  It's obvious that a few
>minutes with a die-grinder can help with the return flow of oil immensely. 
>If
>you ever look in an engine with like 250,000 miles on it, that the chunky,
>sharp corners on the drain back ports act as little dams to catch all of 
the
>big chunks of sludge, and crap which eventually can plug up the hole
>completely, causing the valve covers to spew oil all over the sides of the
>engine.

Maybe but IMHO if you need to port your drain back holes your running
way to close to the edge.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 14:45:25 1993
Subject: Re:  cylinder head mods/porting
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5970
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 One nice thing about living near the Cape - seem to be an awful lot of
pocket-size industrial tools that show up at the flea market :)  Like 3 
carbide burrs for $5, still in their wax glob. I've got a spare set of
'70 GS350 heads I'd like to spiff up a little (in my abundant spare time).
Maybe the longbeards here can give us a beginners' do/don't bedtime story.

 As far as doing things to heads, one popular mod is of course bigger
valves. I've seen pictures where the valves miss each other by mils. 
Obviously this is a practical limit. The cylinder wall is the other.
>From what I gather though it's best to have somewhat more than zero
clearance to the wall - something about shrouding part of the valve
periphery and actually reducing effective area. Is there a good rule of
thumb, like maybe some precentage of total valve lift, to get the 
best flow? Theoretically I could put 455 valves in my 350 head (just going
by cylinder diameter) but that'd leave, oh, maybe 0.1" on either side; 
got to cut flow at that part of the valve I'd say, when you're talking
.4-.45 of lift. Then again, maybe you'd rather force the flow to be 
biased toward the cylinder center. Or not.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 14:53:37 1993
Subject: T400 switch pitch
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5971
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Jim Swonger wrote about T400s and switch pitch converters.  I would
quote from his article except that I pushed the wrong button and
deleted it instead of replying to it :-(.  It's one of those days....

T400 gear ratios are 2.48, 1.48, and 1.00.  I never heard of the factory
making anything different than these.  They did experiment a good bit
with torque converters, though - perhaps they felt that this was a
more effective means to getting what they wanted.

Recently, GM has been contracting out some gear work for the newer
automatic transmissions.  Much of this has to do with different gear
ratios so maybe their thinking has changed over the years.

The switch pitch converter can be installed in any T400 case.  You
need the pump, the input shaft, a 2-pin electrical connector, and
a solenoid with a long wire.  Mount the solenoid (it's just like the
T400 kickdown solenoid) on the back of the pump housing where it won't
interfere with anything.  Run its wire to the extra pin in the connector.
Press or pound out the old input shaft from the front drum and press or
pound in the new input shaft.

The reason that the input shaft and pump have to change is that there
is an extra oil channel to the converter.  Pressure in this channel
controls the switch pitch vanes.  The stator splines on the switch
pitch pumps are only about 1/2 the length of the usual splines in a
non-switch pitch tranny, and there are some extra holes in the shafts
for the oil channel.  The parts are easy to identify visually.

Bob Hale                         hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 15:02:19 1993
Subject: Good uses for WD -40?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5972
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

1.   I give a shoot to each cylinder before I get ready to store my boat.
      It is suppose to displace water.

 2. I spray it on my boat plug before installing. (the mfg. drilled the hole 
      slightly undersized) 

 Somehow I ended up with a gallon of the stuff, so if anyone else has any
  "good" uses let me know.

----------
Posted by: emory!cpd.tandem.com!jerry
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 15:09:54 1993
Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and Mechanics
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5973
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and Mechanics

> I've got a few rears around which I can cut lower mount brackets off of     
> to make the rear fit my Skylark; the current lowers are angled in quite
> severely (looks like the car it came from was a sort of X-frame).  It's      
> the uppers that've got me hesitating. I wouldn't trust my welding ears to
> the cast iron to make it a replacement fit.

> Are the GM housings cast iron or nodular?  Any problem getting a good weld
> to the mild steel axle tubes?

 The GM housings are nodular iron. No problem getting a good weld to the axle
tubes and housing. Just watch how you apply the heat. The axle tube will creep
in the housing when excess heat is apllied. Best application is to quickly
tack in four positions around tube and housing joint. Let it cool about five
minutes then go back and weld in one inch increments in four places, let cool
and continue process until you have the joint welded to your satisfaction. A
wire welder works great.

> Basically I want a rear end which is well-set-up for aggressive street
> driving (I like to accelerate, threshold brake and corner hard whenever
> there's room) but biased  slightly toward good launches. However I don't
> want to end up with something that squirrels out on me when I hit a bump. No
> ladder bars, etc. The strip-type 4-links I see look awfully weak for any
> application involving side loads or roll too.  It has to last like OEM ('60s 
> OEM, that is) but handle better.

If you don't mind the work that will be involved, the three link is the best 
way to go. You shouldn't have a problem welding items to the stock GM nodular 
housing. It has the machining and welding characteristics of steel. I would
replace the lower control arms with steel tubing and spherical rod ends as I
suggested previously. Use the stock frame mounts and drill the holes to the
same size as the rod end hole (usually 3/4 inch). On the upper length use two
pieces of 1/8 inch plate steel about 3" X 3" with two holes in each plate to
mount the rod end of the upper length. This will be welded to the top of the
housing so that one plate sits on each side of the rod end. This will give a
lot of strength with very little weight. You should weld on both sides of each
plate. You can make the plates a little wider than the rod end and use
bushings to take up the space.

Not knowing the exact deminsions of you Buick I,m going to guess that the
brace and mounting bracket for the stock upper control arms will need to be
reworked for the upper link bracket for a three link. I would not make the pan
hard rod adjustable since your more concerned with straight line acceleration
rather than cornering (although this will corner much better than stock). As I
said this is the best design in terms of weight, simplicty and adjustability.

I am including two sources that I use to by brackets for various applications.
The first one is:

A & A Manufacturing      616-846-1730 or 1-800-473-1730
19033 174th Avenue       (Various chassis components for stock cars, drags,
Spring Lake, MI 49456     buggies and street rods)

Lane Automotive          616-463-LANE or 1-800-772-5266
7181 Red Arrow Hwy. E    (All kinds of engine, chassis and accessory parts.
Coloma, MI 49038          Very similar to Summit and Speedway. Prices just as
                          good)

As soon as I get my Port City, Lefthander and Howe racing catalogs returned to
me I'll enclose those addresses also.

Roger Hensley
Patriot Motorsports
1099 N. 16th St.
Otsego, MI 49078

----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 22:51:59 1993
Subject: Aluminum 350 or else?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5974
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I am looking to the development of:
   a. light- ( aluminum block)
   b. 350 ci. (desired as personal pref.)
   c. Turbo.  w/adjustable wastegate
   d. counter and normal rotation (for a twin)
   e. 375 Hp. at 4500 rpm.
   f. sea level to 18,000 feet operation (1/2 atmosphere)
   g. gear or "belt" reduction to 2800 rpm output
 These are the major design constraints- I have been looking at this 
 for several years.
 My old 69 SS Camaro , now belonging to my boy, may be the test bed
 he would love that.
 For you homebuilders I leave the applications to your dreams.

 Please throw any ideas, information or general remarks my way
   THANKS Ken
  

----------
Posted by: emory!mvubr.att.com!mvkrg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 22:56:23 1993
Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and Mechanics
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5975
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>> Basically I want a rear end which is well-set-up for aggressive street
>> driving (I like to accelerate, threshold brake and corner hard whenever
>> there's room) but biased  slightly toward good launches. However I don't
>> want to end up with something that squirrels out on me when I hit a bump. No
>> ladder bars, etc. The strip-type 4-links I see look awfully weak for any
>> application involving side loads or roll too.  It has to last like OEM ('60s 
>> OEM, that is) but handle better.

>If you don't mind the work that will be involved, the three link is the best 
>way to go. You shouldn't have a problem welding items to the stock GM nodular 
>housing. It has the machining and welding characteristics of steel. 

 Hmmm... that's nice. I guess I'll practice on one of the junkers and see
if it cracks after MIG beads with a good whack from a hammer. 

>I would
>replace the lower control arms with steel tubing and spherical rod ends as I
>suggested previously. Use the stock frame mounts and drill the holes to the
>same size as the rod end hole (usually 3/4 inch). 

 Can you get regular sway bars to attach to tubular lower? I've seen some
like Global West's which are rigged for it with a drop fin. Would you use
one rod end or two per lower link? Unless I was to go to a modified front
suspension I'd be wanting to add a sway bar, probably just OEM, to cut the
wallowing a bit.

>On the upper length use two
>pieces of 1/8 inch plate steel about 3" X 3" with two holes in each plate to
>mount the rod end of the upper length. This will be welded to the top of the
>housing so that one plate sits on each side of the rod end. This will give a
>lot of strength with very little weight. You should weld on both sides of each
>plate. You can make the plates a little wider than the rod end and use
>bushings to take up the space.

 The diff in question is a little unusual in that it has none of the stiffening
fins you see on newer 4-links. The butt circle is very beefy, but I wonder
about how strong the nose is and whether the case in general could stand a
lot of torque on the pitch axis. Would there be much benefit in trying to
add a stiffening fin or would it more likely cost me the case to cracking?

>Not knowing the exact deminsions of you Buick I,m going to guess that the
>brace and mounting bracket for the stock upper control arms will need to be
>reworked for the upper link bracket for a three link. I would not make the pan
>hard rod adjustable since your more concerned with straight line acceleration
>rather than cornering (although this will corner much better than stock). As I
>said this is the best design in terms of weight, simplicty and adjustability.

 Standard '71 Skylark convertible, same scheme as a Chevelle etc. There's 
a beam with the two upper mounts and I'd have no problem with welding in a 
third between them, or cobbing up a bolt-in mount either. The body's ready
to come off so I can get the frame clean and weld in new floor pans anyway.
As to the Panhard, I figure I'd want at least enough adjustability to make 
up for any measurement screwups. Beyond that I doubt I'd know how or why to
adjust; I just would try to null out any "crabbing". 

 While the frame is exposed, are there any simple, known mods to GM A-bodies
for stiffening the chassis? The convertible frame is pretty heavy, and looks
good for vertical loads, but torsionally it's a slinky. Anything short of a
N+6-point roll cage? I'd just as soon not put one in - I bought it for the
(potential, at this stage) looks. I would have no problem adding some
discreetly hidden tubing for bracing, in fact it would be pretty slick to 
install a multipoint cage with the roll bar part removable (retained by bolts
or pins). Since the floor pans are going to meet Mr. Sawzall in a couple of
weeks, the time is certainly ripe.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 23:02:48 1993
Subject: Re: High-stall converter - switch pitch info
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5976
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Apparently any TH400 can be converted to make use of switch-pitch 
>converters.
>It involves installation of a solenoid (or solenoid valve?) and of course 
>the
>converter itself, plus a new case connector. All told it's probably gonna 
>set
>you back $200-$300. Not that far out of line with a regular aftermarket 

It'll probably run you closer to $400 - $600 and not help all that much.

>converter but potentially much more streetable. The switch-pitch converters
>came mainly in big, pre-'68 GM cars. I believe you could pick up one of 
>these

I think they're Buick only.  Contact Ken Bell.  I think all Buicks had long 
tail shafts so an adapter plus shortening the driveshaft would be needed.

>(recognizable by a two-wire rather than one-wire connector and (probably) a
>funny-looking aluminum tag on the case which says "ST-400 Super Turbine"; 
>another clue is the presence of a weird gizmo next to the carb with wires
>running to the tranny) and swap out the relevant parts. Since I believe most 
>of these were used in BOP cars the Chevy crowd may have to go the retrofit 
>route (or use a tranny adaptor plate). 

I did some research into these a while back - when TH700 were $1700.  I 
wanted the best of both worlds.  According to various vendors (most sold 
standard type of torque converters and trannies so YMMV) the switch pitch 
shifts from a 1700 rpm stall to a 2800 rpm stall.  Sounds good so far.  It 
does this by reducing the efficiency of the converter.  This means high heat 
and worse no additional torque multiplication.  A good high-po torque 
converter will give you a torque multiplication of around 2.1:1.  Stock you 
should see about 1.5:1.  The switch pitch does not increase this number.  
This means a 2800 rpm switch pitch setup will accelorate slower than the 
equivalent set-up with a good 11" 2800 rpm converter.

> Add in some extra low first gears and you'd have a pretty sweet combo. Too
>bad low gear sets cost as much as a whole tranny. Maybe here I'll ask again
>in case anybody new knows - were there any OEM GM TH400 first gear ratios 
>lower than "standard" ever made, maybe for truck duty? I guess normal first 
>ratio is something like 1.7:1. Seems like if they made granny manuals maybe

Either it is 2.21:1 or 2.41:1 (or something close) and I think after market 
ones generally run about 2.7:1 for first and the lower 2nd gear as well.

>there was an auto counterpart at some point. Can't quite see my way clear to
>shelling out >$300 for a planetary gear assembly.

TH350 have a better low gear but watch out around 450 ft-lbs.  And if you 
think planetary gears cost alot - the roller sprag assembly (with a new drum) 
runs around $450 mail order.... (B&M claim 350% torque capacity increase).

After all is said and done I think you best bet would be to buy a trans and 
torque converter from a good builder but through someone who will honor the 
warrentee. $600 - $1000 depending on quality.

Dirk



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug  4 23:14:33 1993
Subject: Re: High-stall converter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5977
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi George,

You responded to
>[T400 switch pitch trans info deleted]
>-> 
>-> Regarding streetability and high stall converters: it usually isn't
>-> practical to run more than 2500 RPM on the street.  As other posters
>-> have noted, the torque comes in all at once when you get close to the
>-> stall speed.  And it takes time to rev up the engine to that RPM;
>-> it makes it hard to operate in traffic because of the "all or none"
>-> characteristic of the acceleration.  And the converter generates a
>-> _lot_ of heat when running under load at less than its stall speed.
>-> This can make driving in hilly country problematic.
>-> 
>-> In any case, you need a transmission cooler when you have a higher-
>-> than-stock stall speed converter.
>-> 
>-> Bob Hale
>-> 
>-> ----------
>-> Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
>->  
>-> 
>I'd like to take exception to the statement to not run more than
>2500 RPM stall speed on the street.  I've been running a 3000 RPM
>stall speed converter for close to 2 years and I'm very happy with
>it.  ('64 Chrysler NY, 413 cid, 4 bbl, TF)  The car is much more
>responsive with this converter.  For normal driving, there is very
>little difference between this converter and the stock converter.
>There is certainly none of the "all or none" as others have described.

Switch pitch converters would have an all or nothing effect.

>Perhaps this is due to the difference in manufacturers.  (Converter
>made by Transmission Specialties)  The biggest difference that I have

If your concerned ask the manufacturer what the efficiency of the converter 
is.  Good ones are close to 89 - 90% - high milage ones are close to 95%.

[stuff deleted]

>BTW, I did add an auxiliary trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator.
>
>George Kulp

Very good recomendation.  You'll have a hard time finding a trans shop that 
won't recomend one.  Something like 90% of all trans failures can be traced 
to overheating.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug  5 03:41:20 1993
Subject: Re: Autolite Nationals at Sears Point
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5978
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List wrote:
> 
> The Autolite Nationals are here at Sears Point this weekend (Northern
> California).  
> 
> Their prices are outrageous:  $31.00 a person for the good seats.

I went for free (Na, na, Na, na, naaa :)
It seems the prez at my friend's company has season tickets to SPIR.
A whole drawer full!  He's a REAL good friend now :-)

> I wish they would do some more of the Jet cars too.

Me too, but with the top-fuel nitro-breathers running 4.94@296 upwind 
(2 o'clock at Sears Point...  must be time for the wind to switch directions)
with an air temp of 104 degrees, I didn't miss any excitement.
It was so hot in the paddock area they had to lay old bilboards down on
the melting tar for people to walk on.

What I did see for the first time was the junior class dragsters.  These
are little Briggs&Stratton powered jobs that top out around 60mph in 
the 1/8 mile, driven by 8-13 year-olds.  They've got headers, sidedrafts
off of Harleys, and one even popped a chute :-)  Compared to the TAFD's
they looked like they were going backwards.

Hey John, maybe you can help the youngsters out with your ever-exciting
lawnmower antics :-)

> To me, the sound of a top fuel dragster taking off is most of what makes it
> exciting to be there.  I love that feeling of having every pulse of exhaust
> hammering on my chest.  I wish the TV coverage would let you hear the sound
> of the engines.  There's usually some goofball talking through the whole 4.9
> second race.  Does anyone else feel the same way?

Uh... What he said :-)

--DAVE (johnson@wrs.com)

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug  5 03:48:05 1993
Subject: Re: Vehicle identification
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5979
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


(Eric W Youngblood) writes:

>I recently came accross a 1976 Limited Edition Trans Am.
>From all my reading it would have been designated code Y82 which
>indicates a Trans AM LE w/ 455 cid manual 4 speed and Hurst Hatch
>T-tops, complete with special gold trim/accents etc....

>However there is no indication in the VIN number that would identify
>this as a special model ( only 110 assemblies )

>the VIN number looks like : 2W87NW6######
>                            ^--^^^^-----^ 
>                            |  ||||     |
>                            |  ||||     Six digit sequence #
>                            |  |||Year (1976)             = 6
>                            |  ||Engine Code for pont 455 = W
>                            |  |Norwood Plant code        = N 
>                            |  Trans Am Coupe code        = W87
>                            Poniac Motor Division         = 2


>I am confused because this would be the same first 7 digits of a regular
>Trans Am with a 455.  Does the Y82 only appear on the build sheet?
>If so, it would be a pretty easy task to "dress-up" a regular TA to look
>like a special edition. 

I'm not sure if this applies to the year in question but my expirience with
67-69 firebirds has turned up a few clues to vehicle id'ing.

1. I've found numerous "Body Broadcast Copy" if the frame of the back seat.
   This sheet is not the much sought after and elusive build sheet, but close.
   On this sheet you will find a lot of rudimentary codes such as the the
   ign. key code, trim number, indication of posi or not, etc.
   There is a lot of info on this sheet.   So if this sheet was also present 
   in the later years, it would most likely tell you what you need to know
   about the car

2. Many time the build sheet has been located on top of the gas tank, but my
   trips through the junk yards, has shown that the later years are very 
   consistent in having the sheet on the tank.

3. If you are really serious about purchasing a car(Pontiac) or authenticating
   your own, you can send $25 buck to Pontiac Historic Services, P.O. BOX 884
   St. Hts. Mi 48311-0884.  Provide them with the vin number of the car in 
   question and they will try to dig up the original factory order form(Worth
   it's weight in gold!!) and they will send you a copy plus some other
   literature.  If you go this route you may want to write them first for the
   money detail.  I did this about 1.5 years ago for my firebird, it was well
   worth the cash.

I think the best bet to identifying a Pontiacs authenticity, is getting a copy
of the original factory order form from PHS.

Good luck!!!

-Jim Moore
'68 454 4spd Camaro
'68 400HO 4spd Firebird
'69 427 RS Camaro


------------------------------------------------
 ---- ( ^ )                              ( ^ ) --
  ---   |     jimm@henson.cc.wwu.edu       |   ---
   --   |    "Go ahead, eat the fruit"     |   ----  
    ------------------------------------------------
 

----------
Posted by: emory!honeydew.cc.wwu.edu!jimm (Jim Moore)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug  5 13:47:14 1993
Subject: Re: High-stall converter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5980
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>>BTW, I did add an auxiliary trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator.
>>
>>George Kulp
>
>Very good recomendation.  You'll have a hard time finding a trans shop that 
>won't recomend one.  Something like 90% of all trans failures can be traced 
>to overheating.
>
>Dirk

Is this also needed when driving in a cool climate? We rarely get over 90F
here in Sweden. Summertime usually is about 70F.

If it is needed, should the extra cooler be mounted before or after the
ordinary oilcooler (the one in the radiator)?

Markus

----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug  5 14:05:14 1993
Subject: Re:  Aluminum 350 or else?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5981
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 I guess maybe this is an aircraft application? The only comment I have is
that going to an aluminum block will save you at most 100 pounds or so; 
for reference here are the weights of various 350 (Buick, however) engine
components. Normally aspirated and cammed specifically for power without
any regard for idle quality, a 350 can be expected to make over 300HP
without forced induction at 4500-5000RPM.

Block         150lb
Crank         50
Heads (pair)  100 bare
Intake (iron) 48
       (Al)   16
Exhaust (pr)  28
Carb (Qjet)   10

 As you can see, the block contributes perhaps 30% of engine weight. 
Going to aluminum heads (part of the plan as well, I expect) would 
result in a savings of perhaps 50-70 pounds.

 Interestingly a big block Buick, 400/430/455, weighs about 50 pounds
more and will easily give you 350HP with normal aspiration and a very mild
cam. For the power level you desire, and youe intent to use the turbo
for altitude compensation, I think you should be looking to smaller
displacement engines.

 I think the Buick (Rover now) 215 V-8 would be a likely candidate. 
Aluminum block by design, fair parts availability, stroker kits are
available and this engine was even offered as a turbo motor in an
Oldsmobile at one point. 

 Another option is using the turbo V-6s instead of a V-8. The GN guys
do pretty well at squeezing out horsepower. Moreover, going with my
aircraft power plant hypothesis, fuel injection would have some big
advantages over a carbureted system with regard to aerobatics (intentional
or otherwise). You could pick up a couple of turbo V-6s ready to rock 
for less than the machining charges on your custom engine block, I
expect. I believe marine cams exist for these motors, which is where
you'd want to look for reverse-rotation hardware.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug  5 14:31:41 1993
Subject: Re: High-stall converter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5982
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The stock SP converters were more like <1000 and 2800 as I recall (no
catalogs handy just now). Bear in mind that these stall numbers are for
big torque motors that would throw maybe 300 lb-ft near idle RPM. The
aftermarket offers higher RPM stalls as well; I think I've seen them
as high as 1800/4000. The trick with the throttle position gizmo is
that at idle, and when the pedal is mashed, you get high stall and 
at part throttle you fall to low stall. So your luxury barge can go
all engines ahead full when you want, but loaf at 80 on the highway.
Around 4K you get low stall no matter what.

 The cost doesn't concern me; I already have one (paid a dude $50 for 
salvage rights on an old Wildcat). Most junkyards will let you snag one
of these at the same price as a regular trans. As far as efficiency goes,
I see no special cooling on these older cars that used them, and as far
as performance it seems that a large number of the Buick racers use
them (talking sub-12-second 455 Skylarks). In Buick-land it's sort of a
prestige thing to drive cross country, run 10s or 11s and drive home.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug  5 14:45:39 1993
Subject: Aluminum 350 or else?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5983
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> a. light- ( aluminum block)

 There are aluminum blocks for the small Chevy and Ford, and probably
the Mopar.  There are also the Cadillac Northstar and Ford SOHC V8s, as
well as the Chevy LT-5, but you can't buy an LT-5 without getting the
whole ZR-1 Corvette.  For the small Chevy the price of aluminum blocks
varies widely, as does the weight, running from 70 to 95 pounds.  Iron
blocks weigh about 155 pounds.  Chevy iron heads weight from 40 to 45
pounds, aluminum heads 19 to 22 pounds.  If you were running an aluminum
intake already, the maximum you could save by going to an aluminum block
and heads would be 125 pounds, bringing you from about 575 pounds for
total weight down to 450, or only 10 pounds less than a standard 5.0
Ford.


-> b. 350 ci. (desired as personal pref.)
-> c. Turbo.  w/adjustable wastegate
-> e. 375 Hp. at 4500 rpm.
-> f. sea level to 18,000 feet operation (1/2 atmosphere)

 With the turbo, you could also use a 302 without trouble.  The iron
Chevy 4.3 V6 would be only slightly heavier than the small Chevy, and
the all-iron Buick 3.8 V6 is less than 400 pounds.  It's also available
conveniently turbocharged and fuel-injected, right out of the junkyard,
and 375hp is duck soup with a few simple mods - the guys in the gnttype
list would probably be happy to bend your ear.


-> d. counter and normal rotation (for a twin)

 The question of reverse-rotation engines comes up regularly in Circle
Track, and Smokey Yunick either pooh-poohs the idea or gives horror
stories about oiling problems, etc.  On the other hand, I've been told
GM sells/sold both large and small block Chevys for both right and left
hand rotation for marine applications.  Since you're going to run a
speed reducer, the simplest way would be to run gears on one motor,
chain on the other, which would give reverse rotation.


 Frankly, rather than building an Aluminum Wonder, it looks like just
cruising the yards for a couple of Buick Turbo V6s would be the way to
fly.  They're even lighter than the aluminum motor, physically smaller,
and tremendously less expensive, letting you put your savings into
avionics or whatever.
                                                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug  5 14:49:45 1993
Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and MechanicsTo: hotrod@dixie.com
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5984
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> While the frame is exposed, are there any simple, known mods to GM
-> A-bodies for stiffening the chassis? The convertible frame is pretty
-> heavy, and looks good for vertical loads, but torsionally it's a
-> slinky.

 If you could add an X-member connecting the four corners it'd stiffen
it a lot.  That's about the best way to stiffen any open quadrilateral
structure.  You don't have to go directly across - the center X can drop
down if required, to clear driveline.

 GM frame rails are typically spot welded.  Welding a continuous bead
will stiffen them a bit, as will boxing any open areas.
                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 02:53:32 1993
Subject: Mufflers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5985
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

What's the good setup for quiet high-flow mufflers these days?
Years back it used to be the Cadillac mufflers but with engine
downsizing and the like I'm sure that the picture has changed.

The application is a 350 in^3 engine with headers dumping into
2.5 inch head pipes.  I have room for the conventional long
mufflers; I have been using Crysler hemi mufflers but would like
to get something which is quiter when the engine is making maximum
power.

Bob Hale                           hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 03:10:07 1993
Subject: Re: Aluminum 350 or else?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5986
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you wrote:
: I am looking to the development of:
:    a. light- ( aluminum block)
:    b. 350 ci. (desired as personal pref.)
:    c. Turbo.  w/adjustable wastegate
:    d. counter and normal rotation (for a twin)
:    e. 375 Hp. at 4500 rpm.

First a disclaimer: I'm no expert. I'm not even a competent
practitioner.

You'd better specify the application. 375 HP. peak and
375 HP. continuous duty are 2 different worlds. (I suspect
that you want ~300 HP. continuous duty.) You're planning on
running twins, but it's still hard to to pull over and park
when an engine dies.

:    f. sea level to 18,000 feet operation (1/2 atmosphere)
:    g. gear or "belt" reduction to 2800 rpm output

When looking for reduction setups, ask how they dampen
torsional vibration. If they say that the belt handles that
or that it's not a problem then shop elsewhere.

I'd build something to handle ~600 HP @ 4500 RPM and derate
it to get adequate durability. (If this is a strictly racing
application, that might be overkill, but if you're planning
cross country then overbuild it or risk digging a hole.)

Personally' I've pondered using Pro Stock big block parts
to build a ~ 600 CID 375 HP @ 2800 RPM aircraft engine. It could
be just as durable as the commercial counterparts at maybe
half (?) the price. (But I won't even try to guess the weight.)

: ----------
: Posted by: emory!mvubr.att.com!mvkrg
---          
Norb Brotz                Cray Research Park    Internet: nbrotz@palm.cray.com
Sr. Programmer/Analyst    655F Lone Oak Drive   UUCP:     uunet!cray!nbrotz
Software Division         Eagan, Mn. 55121      phone:    (612) 683-5698

----------
Posted by: emory!palm.cray.com!nbrotz (Norb Brotz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 03:23:59 1993
Subject: Re: High-stall converter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5987
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Markus writes:
-> 
-> >>BTW, I did add an auxiliary trans cooler mounted in front of the radiator.
-> >>
-> >>George Kulp
-> >
-> >Very good recomendation.  You'll have a hard time finding a trans shop that 
-> >won't recomend one.  Something like 90% of all trans failures can be traced 
-> >to overheating.
-> >
-> >Dirk
-> 
-> Is this also needed when driving in a cool climate? We rarely get over 90F
-> here in Sweden. Summertime usually is about 70F.
-> 
-> If it is needed, should the extra cooler be mounted before or after the
-> ordinary oilcooler (the one in the radiator)?
-> 
-> Markus
-> 
-> ----------
-> Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
->  
-> 
-> 
-> 
Hi Markus,

There are two schools of thought regarding the order of coolers.

The directions that come with several coolers specify the stock cooler
first and the auxiliary cooler second.  I think that this is primarily
bacause of the natural tendency people have to think of the stock
cooler first and the auxiliary cooler second.  I mounted my aux cooler
this way without really considering the alternative.

Since then I've had discussions where it was suggested that the other
way 'round is better.  The reasoning is that the aux cooler first
reduces the fluid temp by a certain amount, and then, depending upon
the temp of the fluid, the stock cooler either cools or warms the
fluid.  In very cold weather, the stock cooler actually warms the
fluid whereas in very hot weather, the opposite occurs.  The effect
is to reduce the temp extremes of the fluid.  This intuitively seems
to be a good idea, but sometimes intuition is not correct.  While it
is widely acknowledged that trans fluid lasts longer if kept cool,
there may very well be a temp you should't go below.

Adding an aux cooler is certainly a good idea for 70F to 90F temps.
However, you might consider connecting the aux cooler first since
(I think) your winter temps tend to get fairly low.

George Kulp

----------
Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 03:28:54 1993
Subject: RE: Aluminum 350 or else?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5988
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>I am looking to the development of:
>   a. light- ( aluminum block)

Seeing your other requirements look at some after market Chevy blocks. 
- I don't think you'll save that much weight though.  You'll also be 
looking at about $3000 - $4000.  Make sure the block is streetable - 
has full water passages that can suport normal coolant system 
pressures.

>   b. 350 ci. (desired as personal pref.)

Probably the cheapest way to go.  Plenty of NASCAR style parts (read 
strong - developed - and good endurance).

>   c. Turbo.  w/adjustable wastegate

OK.  Look for electronically adjustable wastegates.  These coupled with 
knock sensors could save the engine one day.

>   d. counter and normal rotation (for a twin)

Ahh...  Never seen that before.  Most twin turbo's use two identical 
turbos - cept maybe the cascading turbos where one feeds the other.  In 
general you want both turbos kicking in at the same time - go for 
balance - ie identical setups on both sides.

>   e. 375 Hp. at 4500 rpm.

Kids stuff.  With a streetable roller cam you don't need turbos for 
this one.  Just for kicks Gale Banks once made a twin turbo (blow 
through system) twin intercooled system that produce 1050hp for small 
blocks and 1150 hp for big blocks.  I don't know if they still carry it 
- last time I checked they (the lady that answered the phone) claimed 
they only make turbos for diesels. An earlier article in one of the 
rags claimed 450+ hp with 8 lbs of boost for a 350.

>   f. sea level to 18,000 feet operation (1/2 atmosphere)

What are you building an airplane?

>   g. gear or "belt" reduction to 2800 rpm output

Sounds more like an airplane everytime...
If you can get the belt to last maybe but I'd go with gear - definitly 
aircraft material.  Didn't Porsche build some power plants for planes?  
I believe they had a 3:1 reduction from engine rpm to propeller rpm.  
They also made do with 230hp and they didn't need water cooling.

> These are the major design constraints- I have been looking at this 
> for several years.
> My old 69 SS Camaro , now belonging to my boy, may be the test bed
> he would love that.
> For you homebuilders I leave the applications to your dreams.
>
> Please throw any ideas, information or general remarks my way
   THANKS Ken
  
If your looking for airplane stuff there might be a usenet list thats 
better suited.  I think FAA has some rules about what can go up.....

Dirk

I'll test that engine in my corvette :-)

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 03:31:57 1993
Subject: Re: 350 and SS396
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5989
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


          The plumbing and computer management for equipping the '68 with 
          turbochargers will be quite expensive.  You can't just drop in 
          the Buick 3.8 turbocharged, fuel injected, computer-managed 
          engine.  I'm not sure you could be street legal without all the 
          sensors and emissions controls.  And the wiring....
          
          I owned an '86 GN (modified heads, perf cam, chip, exhausts, 
          injectors, computer chip).  It was great fun, but I can't imagine 
          trying to retrofit this into my 68 Camaro.  
          
          I suggest creating a ZL-1 engine.  This is the all-aluminum 427 
          (block and heads) engine that Chevy put into 69 Vettes and a few 
          Camaros.  This will swap right in your Chevy - it will even use 
          the 396 frame mounts and accessories (that still perform).
          
          There is no reason for a well-built performance engine to produce 
          less than 1hp per cubic inch.  So, the 427 will buy you 
          considerably more hp and torque than the 350.  Might as well 
          overbore it (.060 - .100, whatever the limit).  
          
          If you want to puff it up a bit, why not add on a supercharger?  
          You can install one without having to cut a hole in the hood.  
          Just check with your engine maker to ensure the correct 
          compression pistons to match the blower.
          
          You'll need a stout tranny.  If you don't have a 12-bolt rear end 
          (8 7/8" ring gear), you might want to get one if you go with a 
          BB.
          
          This isn't an inexpensive route.  But it is a simple approach, 
          and you can make it street legal (except perhaps in CA.).
          
          Eric Webb
          internet ewz@nccibm1.rtpnc.epa.gov


----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 03:34:50 1993
Subject: Re: Racecar Engineering and Mechanics
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5990
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


One thing to beware of that hasn't been mentioned in this thread so far is
pinion angle.  Just be aware that when you change the location/length/angle
of the mounting arms, this will affect the pinion angle which varies 
throughout the travel of the axle.  It's a good idea to figure this all out 
on paper beforehand to set where the initial pinion angle will be at ride 
height, then how it will change at both top and bottom of travel to ensure 
it's within spec at all positions.


----------
Posted by: emory!wv.MENTORG.COM!derekd (Derek Deeter)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 03:37:18 1993
Subject: Hays Stinger Ph./address
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5991
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



 Last address and phone number I have:

 Phone: 714-898-4477

 Address: Midway City, Ca. 92655
 
 Sorry about the short address But I got it off a sticker. 
 If you would like the sticker, mail me your address
and I will send it to you. It's not bad looking.

   Jerry@cpd.tandem.com

----------
Posted by: emory!spike.cpd.tandem.com!jerry (Jerry Hendrickson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 03:40:04 1993
Subject: Electrical connectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5992
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Where do I find electrical connectors that plug into stock OEM
wiring harnesses.  I am tired of hacking up harnesses to wire up
my own gadgets, and I see all of the aftermarket stuff with nice
connectors that will plug right in.

Asking the local dealership parts counter only solves half of the
problem.  I usually need the opposite sex connector, or I end up
buying an expensive harness, cutting the connector off, and tossing
the rest.

Someone is making these connectors, but who is it?


Thanks.


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 03:43:39 1993
Subject: Re:  Aluminum 350 or else?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5993
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Interesting ideas.  The only things I have seen close to this were a couple 
of articles in HRM, and one? in an airplane magazine.  In HRM, some famous
guy made an all aluminum chevy 350 with dual superchargers and dual turbo
chargers and put in in a Pontiac J2000.  He then won a great many shows.
Perhaps somebody can cite specifics, as my HRMs are a few thousand miles
away.  Also in HRM were two articles on all aluminim Chevy motors in 
airplanes.  I remember the two plug heads, dual ignintions, and the 
huge belt reduction casting on the end of the motor.  Even will all this
way-expensive stuff, it had more power and less cost than any new airplane
motor.  

Even more vague than those thoughts are memories of some reviews of car 
motors in airplanes that I have read in my former boss' airplane mags.  
All I can remember is that people do it with all aluminium chevys, but 
are generally considered a bit loony.  

I am interested in the specific application you envision.  Also, how much
can you spend?

Calloway still does turbo Chevy motors; he could probably build you and 
aluminum one, but that seems to be a small part of what you need. 

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dianippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 03:49:09 1993
Subject: '74 Trans Am for Sale (best 9.80 1320ft ET)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5994
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

My roommate and I are selling his car.  A friend of ours completely built it 
up from scratch, including among other things a brand new engine and 
transmission.  It is not designed (nor legal) for street use, but designed 
for quarter mile racing.  It has run a best of 9.80 in the quarter mile, 
with slicks and the passenger seat removed, using NOS.  It also 
had a slightly heavier cam at the time.  It currently runs mid 11s off the 
bottle on slicks, and runs mid to high 12s fully loaded (seats and all) on 
street tires.

The car is a white color (Pontiac calls it "Pontiac White"), and the body is 
in good condition.  Interior needs work, but is fully functional.

The engine has under 10,000 miles on it, and the trans is about as new as 
the engine.

Following are the specs straight from the guy who built it:

	Pontiac Big Block 400 Bore 30 Over balanced and blueprinted
	Tuned port nitrous injection
	Isky Mega Hydraulic Nitrous Cam Shaft with 485 Lift
	Holley 750 double pumper jetted out.
	Balanced blue printed crank
	67 Ram-air heads
	Forged pistons
	Steel valve guide plates
	Grooved rockers
	Steel braided lines
	Racing oil pan with a bellow door
	K&N Filter
	Racing Suspension (???)
	
	and more....


I also believe (off the top of my head) that it has a 4.55 geared rear.

If you are interested, or have further questions, please feel free to e-mail 
me directly.  I can get answers to any questions you may have about the 
car.

We are asking $5000, but are open to offers.  Bear in mind that this car is 
for OFF ROAD USE ONLY, however my roommate drives it on the street all the 
time, anyway.  Makes for a great show if you're trying to humble a blown out 
Mustang.

This is the Los Angeles (San Fernando Valley) area, but we are willing to 
negotiate shipping.

-Cougar
danielne@symantec.com


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Why do we drive on parkways, and park in driveways?        - Steven Wright |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Cougar (Dan Neuwirth)       | All  views expressed  in this message are my |
|                             | own,  and  are  not  necessarily   those  of |
| Symantec Peter Norton Group | Symantec Peter Norton Group.                 |
| Engineering Department      |                                              |
| 2500 Broadway Suite 200     |                                              |
| Santa Monica, Ca. 90404     |                                              |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+

----------
Posted by: emory!symantec.com!danielne (Cougar)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 14:42:49 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-30*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5995
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm sorry, but this may be my last issue for a couple of weeks. I should 
be back on line NLT 20 Aug. I apologize for any inconvenience. - Bill

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

World Of Speed & Beauty(racing school)8/7      9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (2-cycle engines)  8/7      10:30-11:00AM    TNN
SAAB PRO SERIES, MONTEREY (T)         8/7      12:00-12:30PM    ESPN
FIREHAWK/SUPERCAR SERIES (T)          8/7      1:30-2:00PM      TNN
Truckin' USA                          8/7      2:00-2:30PM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                     8/7      2:00-2:30PM      DISC
NHRA Today                            8/7      2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    8/7      3:00-3:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MYRTLE BEACH (T)            8/7      3:30-5:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek '93 (Passat GLX)            8/7      5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
BUSCH GN, INDIANAPOLIS (T)            8/7      7:30-9:30PM      ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (L)          8/7      9:30-11:00PM     ESPN
Motoworld                             8/8      3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, INDIANAPOLIS (T)            8/8      3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             8/8      6:00-6:30AM      ESPN
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel             8/8      6:30-8:25AM      MAX
Truckin' USA                          8/8      9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Motor Sports Hour                     8/8      9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Trucks & Tractor Power                8/8      9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Neil Bonnett, part 2)        8/8      10:00-10:30AM    TNN
Cycle World                           8/8      10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
NHRA Today                            8/8      10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    8/8      11:00-11:30AM    TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    8/8     11:30AM-12:00PM   HTS*
RaceDay (L)                           8/8     11;30AM-12:00PM   TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    8/8     11:30AM-12:30PM   HTS*
SpeedWeek                             8/8      12:30-1:00PM     ESPN
WINSTON CUP, WATKINS GLEN (L)         8/8      1:00-3:30PM      ESPN
AMA, CAMEL CLASSIC II, LOUDON (T)     8/8      2:00-3:25PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    8/8      3:25-3:30PM      TNN
INDYCAR, LOUDON (L)                   8/8      3:30-5:30PM   ESPN,TSN
Shadetree Mechanic (2-cycle engines)  8/8      3:30-4:00PM      TNN
Winners (Neil Bonnett, part 2)        8/8      5:30-6:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    8/8      6:00-6:05PM      TNN
NHRA SPORTSNATIONALS, DENVER (T)      8/8      6:05-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today                            8/8      7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    8/8      8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           8/8      8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine                    8/8      11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks & Tractor Power                8/8     11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/8     11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA                          8/9      12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty(racing school)8/9      12:30-1:00AM     TNN
POWERBOAT RACING, ATLANTIC CITY (T)   8/9      1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (T)          8/9      3:30-5:00AM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             8/9      5:00-5:30AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCars @ Michigan)  8/9      3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Motor Sports Hour                     8/9      3:00-4:00PM      HTS*
The Glory Days                        8/9      3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
F ATLANTIC, NEW HAMPSHIRE (T)         8/9      7:30PM           TSN
WINSTON CUP, WATKINS GLEN (T)         8/10     12:30-2:30AM     ESPN
Motor Sports Hour                     8/10     1:00-2:00AM      HTS*
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/10     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
SAAB PRO SERIES, MONTEREY (T)         8/10     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/11     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (IndyCars @ Michigan)  8/11     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (W. Cup @ the Glen)    8/11     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/12     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
INDYCAR, LOUDON (T)                   8/12     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/12     3:30-4:00AM      MTV
Cycle World                           8/12     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     8/12     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                8/12     3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
This Week On Pit Road                 8/12     7:00-7:30PM      HTS*
Auto Racing                           8/12     7:30-8:30PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (Passat GLX)            8/12     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           8/12     8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     8/12     9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                8/12     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR, Ann Arbor (L)    8/12    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
WORLD MOTORCYCLE G.P., DONINGTON (T)  8/13     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/13     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             8/13     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, WATKINS GLEN (T)         8/13     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

World Of Speed & Beauty (Mel Kenyon)  8/14     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (car stereos)      8/14     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
BUSCH GN, MICHIGAN (L)                8/14     1:00PM           ESPN
FIREHAWK/SUPERCAR SERIES, ATLANTA (T) 8/14     1:30-2:00PM      TNN
NHRA Today                            8/14     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    8/14     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (T)            8/14     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        8/14     8:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LOUDON (SD)                  8/14    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, BUDAPEST, HUNGARY (L)      8/15     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
Winners (Alan Kulwicki tribute)       8/15     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             8/15     12:30PM          ESPN
Winners (Alan Kulwicki tribute)       8/15     3:30-4:00PM      TNN
NHRA NATIONALS, SONOMA (T)            8/15     3:30PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, TROIS RIVIERES (L)        8/15     5:00PM           TSN
FORMULA 1, BUDAPEST, HUNGARY (SD)     8/15    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
This Week In NASCAR, Speedway (L)     8/19    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
BUSCH GN, NEW HAMPSHIRE (L)           8/22     1:00-4:00PM      TNN
NHRA NATIONALS, SEATTLE (T)           8/22     1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, ROAD AMERICA (L)             8/22     2:00-4:30PM   ESPN,TSN
INDYCAR, ROAD AMERICA (SD)            8/22    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, LIME ROCK (T)          8/28     1:00PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, BRISTOL (T)                 8/28     4:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, BRISTOL (L)              8/28     7:30PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SPA, BELGIUM (L)           8/29     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
NHRA NATIONALS, BRAINERD (T)          8/29     1:00PM           ESPN
ASA, I-70 SPEEDWAY, ODESSA, MO (L)    8/29     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, VANCOUVER (L)                8/29     4:00-6:00PM    ESPN,CBC
FORMULA 1, SPA, BELGIUM (SD)          8/29    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, VANCOUVER (T)             8/30     5:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, VANCOUVER (T)                8/30     9:00-11:00PM     ESPN
IHRA NATIONALS, SCRIBNER (T)          8/31     12:30AM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, DARLINGTON (SD)             9/4      4:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DARLINGTON (L)           9/5      1:00PM           ESPN
IHRA NATIONALS, NORWALK (T)           9/5      5:00PM           ESPN
IMSA, SAN DIEGO (?)                   9/5      (Event canceled)
BUSCH GN, RICHMOND (?)                9/10     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (L)             9/11     1:00PM           TBS
FORMULA 1, MONZA, ITALY (L)           9/12     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (L)                 9/12     1:00-3:30PM      ESPN
ASA, MADISON INTERNATIONAL SPEEDWAY(L)9/12     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (SD)                9/12     5:00PM           TSN
F1, MONZA OR INDYCAR, M-OHIO (SD)     9/12    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, MID-OHIO (T)              9/13     7:30PM           TSN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out RDS which broadcasts each race live. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim 
Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 14:57:16 1993
Subject: mufflers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5996
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

GOOD subject...Check out "HOLLY INTAKE AND EXHAUST SYSTEMS" latest book.
Also check out "HOW TO HOTROD SMALLBLOCK CHEVYS". These books take out the
guesswork!

----------
Posted by: "Thomas A. Bartlett" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 15:09:49 1993
Subject: Re: 350 and SS396
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5997
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->         I owned an '86 GN (modified heads, perf cam, chip, exhausts,
->         injectors, computer chip).  It was great fun, but I can't
-> imagine
->         trying to retrofit this into my 68 Camaro.

 I think it'd be an absolute blast, and an easy swap to boot.  As long
as you get the brain box, GM will sell you the connectors, and the
wiring diagram is in the book.  The only other thing you'd need is the
proper high pressure fuel pump, and maybe a fuel return line.

 The '68 Camaro is lighter than the Buick shoebox and you would gain
even more with the weight difference between the Buick and Chevy
engines.  A GN-powered Camaro would be a dynamite street ride with some
decent suspension under it!
                                                                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 15:18:34 1993
Subject: Electrical connectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5998
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Asking the local dealership parts counter only solves half of the
-> problem.  I usually need the opposite sex connector, or I end up
-> buying an expensive harness, cutting the connector off, and tossing
-> the rest.

 Is this for a Ford or GM?  The GM books appear to list a lot of
connectors with pigtails, including the weirdo weatherpack jobs, and
they're reasonably priced.
                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 15:22:50 1993
Subject: Electrical connectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5999
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

If you're looking for Ford connectors, they're in the SVO catalog.
Check with the usual SVO dealers.
 -- Chuck Fry, registered Fordnatic

----------
Posted by: Chuck Fry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 15:26:27 1993
Subject: Re:  Electrical connectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6000
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Dan Malek  asks:
 
> Where do I find electrical connectors that plug into stock OEM
> wiring harnesses.  I am tired of hacking up harnesses to wire up
> my own gadgets, and I see all of the aftermarket stuff with nice
> connectors that will plug right in.

I don't have the addresses with me right now but I have been
able to find MOST of what I want by checking one of three
catalogs:  Dr. K's, Ron Williams, and Centech.  

I just dug around my office and got the Dr. K's info:

Dr. K's Automotive Wiring Systems
No. 11 Lakefront Ave.
Gasden, AL 35903

(205) 543-7165
(800) 323-9384

I have found that no matter what project I am working on, I have to
have more than one of these catalogs to get what I want.  If someone
else doesn't post Ron Williams' or Centech's numbers, I'll try to
remember to bring them in next week.

Richard

beckwith@ils.nwu.edu


----------
Posted by: emory!ogun.ils.nwu.edu!beckwith (Richard Beckwith)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 15:30:51 1993
Subject: Re: Electrical connectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6001
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:



>Where do I find electrical connectors that plug into stock OEM
>wiring harnesses.  I am tired of hacking up harnesses to wire up
>my own gadgets, and I see all of the aftermarket stuff with nice
>connectors that will plug right in.

>Asking the local dealership parts counter only solves half of the
>problem.  I usually need the opposite sex connector, or I end up
>buying an expensive harness, cutting the connector off, and tossing
>the rest.

>Someone is making these connectors, but who is it?


>Thanks.


>-- Dan

>----------
>Posted by: Dan Malek 

Greetings!

I am also looking for info on OEM electrical connectors. Specifically I am 
looking for connectors related to Ford's EEC-IV system. The dealer can supply 
me with a connector shell but cannot find the pins to put in it. Calls to 
other numbers the dealer provides are fruitless. Companies like OTC and 
Rotunda know exactly what parts I am talking about but won't say a word or 
even give me a clue. They are very closed mouthed about this. It is apparently 
a secret! OTC is willing to sell me a breakout box for hundreds so I can cut 
the connectors off of it! I have been searching for the OEMs of these 
connectors and I think it must be one of these:

Augat
Amp
TRW
Bendix

If anyone has info on the automotive divisions of these companies, I would be 
grateful if you would forward or post it. My interest in this is building a 
"Front Panel" for my EEC-IV system and also some telemetry and test equipment. 

If anyone is interested in GM ECUs and EFI systems, I have found a wonderful 
resource who apparently works in GM test engineering (?) and is *very* 
knowledgable about the  GM systems. If you are interested, please let me know.


Kevin Martinez
lps@rahul.net
 

----------
Posted by: Kevin Martinez 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 15:35:11 1993
Subject: Re: Aluminum 350 or else?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6002
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>I am looking to the development of:
>   a. light- ( aluminum block)
>   b. 350 ci. (desired as personal pref.)
>   c. Turbo.  w/adjustable wastegate
>   d. counter and normal rotation (for a twin)
>   e. 375 Hp. at 4500 rpm.

	Why go turbo to only get 375hp out of a 350?  You should be able to
build a normally-aspirated 350 that gets this kind of power very reliably
without too much effort.  Then you have none of the oiling/cooling problems
of a turbo to worry about.

	With a turbo, you might be able to wring over 450hp reasonably
reliably.

My $.02,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug  6 18:18:18 1993
Subject: Re: Aluminum 350 or else?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6003
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->      Why go turbo to only get 375hp out of a 350?  You should be able
-> to build a normally-aspirated 350 that gets this kind of power

 You're not going to get it at 18,000 feet, which was one of the other
criteria.  Air pressure goes down as altitude goes up; when you get to
.5 atmospheres your power is cut into less than half.

 Even turbo motors have problems - the proper compressor map for cruise
altitude is altogether different from takeoff power, for example.  Since
aircraft engines don't usually have to worry about throttle response,
they usually go 'way up on the turbo size and futz with throttle and
wastegate controls.
                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Aug  7 01:41:23 1993
Subject: RE: Mufflers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6004
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>What's the good setup for quiet high-flow mufflers these days?
>Years back it used to be the Cadillac mufflers but with engine
>downsizing and the like I'm sure that the picture has changed.

Your major choises are Borla for high buck stainless steel, Flow 
Masters for a radical - but slight heavy approach - dynomax for 
the best bang for the buck and a few other brands like Thrush.  
Modern high-po turbo mufflers perform much better than the hemi 
mufflers but most (all the above) give slight more sound than the 
best stock systems.  If sound is a problem you may want to 
consider adding a second muffler in-line - of the glass-pack 
variety.  Chrysler used to call them resonators and they really 
cut the high frequency noises.  Also install a cross-over pipe -> 
gives quieter performance and adds a little to low-end torque (but 
it might make remove of trans etc. more difficult.

For a radical dream car of mine - I would like to go for 3" pipes 
(stainless) with a 2.5" cross-over, and Borla SS mufflers with 
some 3" diameter glass packs at the end.  Just about right for a 
7.2 litre :-).  


Does this help?
Dirk


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  9 20:44:48 1993
Subject: Autometer Tach Help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6005
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Thanks for the responses to my electrical connectors request.  I am
tracking them down now.

Here is another question.  I have an Autometer Monster racing tach.
It is getting swapped from a V8 to a V6 engine.  I don't have the
instructions for it.  Which wires do I clip on the back to make it
work with the V6?

In case you are wondering, I am now a member of a NASCAR Northern racing
team.  In addition to engine development, the crew chief put me in charge
of anything that has a hint of electrons associated with it (radios,
ignition system, starter, etc.).  We swap between using a V8 and a V6
engine, depending upon the track (and whatever is not broken this week),
and it is nice if the tach works also.  Well, the instructions for the
tach never existed, and no one cared because it was set up for a V8 and
that is what they always ran, until last weekend.  Now it is up to me
to make it work, and I don't have a clue.  Rather than simply cut, test,
and connect the choices, I thought I would ask for help here first.

Thanks.
	-- Dan

[Congrats.  I'm envious :-)  JGD]
----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug  9 20:49:04 1993
Subject: RE: Mufflers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6006
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  Subject:  RE: mufflers
>
>
>>What's the good setup for quiet high-flow mufflers these days?
>
>Your major choises are Borla for high buck stainless steel, Flow 
>Masters for a radical - but slight heavy approach - dynomax for 
>the best bang for the buck and a few other brands like Thrush.  
>Modern high-po turbo mufflers perform much better than the hemi 
>mufflers but most (all the above) give slight more sound than the 
>best stock systems.  If sound is a problem you may want to 
>consider adding a second muffler in-line - of the glass-pack 
>variety.  Chrysler used to call them resonators and they really 
>cut the high frequency noises.  Also install a cross-over pipe -> 
>gives quieter performance and adds a little to low-end torque (but 
>it might make remove of trans etc. more difficult.
>
  I concur with the Dirk;  I spliced in a Cherry Bomb Turbo Muff ($30)
 on my Olds 350... A bit loud at close range on this single tube (2 1/2")
 system.  I am putting a glasspack followup on it to take the 'edge' off
 the rap.  Interesting thing about the cherry is the more you flog it,
 the more the muff, at part throttle lugging makes the windows buzz.
  "Today's performance sound" as the hype goes...

  -kyle
  
   Electrical Designer   (AND) Senior Engineering Laboratory Technician
   Subsystems Development Engineering, Home of Cool-A-Ray (tm).

   NCR corporation; Peripheral Products Division  [an ATT company]
   

----------
Posted by: Kyle Ehler 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 10 03:53:54 1993
Subject: Re:  Autometer Tach Help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6007
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The only tach I've had apart was nice enough to have the destructions on
a label inside; something about cutting one of the resistors for 6-cyl
and the other for 4-cyl. They called them "red" and "blue" which I can 
only presume referred to the dominant color in the color code; "blue"
resistor was long gone. I believe you want to take out the higher-value
of the two resistors. For your purpose I'd install a switch, actually.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 10 13:46:43 1993
Subject: Re: Autometer Tach Help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6008
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Here is another question.  I have an Autometer Monster racing tach.
>It is getting swapped from a V8 to a V6 engine.  I don't have the
>instructions for it.  Which wires do I clip on the back to make it
>work with the V6?
>
>Posted by: Dan Malek 

Ok now I hope this doesn't insult your intelligence but some tachs have
a button on them so you can set them for 4,6,8 cyl. My Autometer tach has
this switch, but it isn't a monster size tach...hope this helps.....
steve

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!sas (s.a.sullivan)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 10 13:54:45 1993
Subject: Re: GN 3.8 into F-body
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6009
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




>
> ->         I owned an '86 GN (modified heads, perf cam, chip, exhausts,
> ->         injectors, computer chip).  It was great fun, but I can't
> ->         imagine trying to retrofit this into my 68 Camaro.
>
>  I think it'd be an absolute blast, and an easy swap to boot.  As long
> as you get the brain box, GM will sell you the connectors, and the
> wiring diagram is in the book.  The only other thing you'd need is the
> proper high pressure fuel pump, and maybe a fuel return line.
>
I must agree that driving this combo would be a blast, but installing
would be more difficult than dropping in a Chevy aluminum BB.  If it weren't,
I expect we'd have heard more about it! (perhaps someone has?)

I believe that the stock GN has a better suspension than a non-modified
Camaro.  So, if you install urethane bushiings, a bigger front anti-sway bar, 
275 tires, and dropped spindles the GN will easily outcorner and outhandle a 
first generation F-body.  Thus, most folks just hotrod the GN's or Regal 
T-Types. (the white T-Types with the hood riser "3.8 SFI TURBO" removed can
be a REAL sleeper).

Howver, far be it from me to discourage any hotrod combo!  If you want to
put a STOCK GN 3.8 liter turbo into an F-body, you'll need to pull everything
in the GN from the intercooler/fan shroud to the exhaust crossover and TH200
tranny.  Keep all the sensors and ECM (inside passenger kickplate).  Note
that the computer expects to control the TH200 tranny hooked to a 3.42
rearend.

I expect the ideal situation would be an ECM that only provides fuel
management so you can run whatever tranny and rear end you choose.
I also like your idea of running a twin-turbo with separate intake
and exhausts.  Remember also that the stock GN in '87 put out 245 net
bhp.  But, as any GN enthusiast knows, it is easy enough to squeeze well
over 300 bhp (head work, exhaust, mufflers, ECM, etc.)  Especially if you
are putting a non-stock version of the engine into the Camaro   The '68 Camaro is lighter than the Buick shoebox and you would gain
> even more with the weight difference between the Buick and Chevy
> engines.  A GN-powered Camaro would be a dynamite street ride with some
> decent suspension under it!

Yeah, rear coil-over shocks, a 3-link , and 90's tires might be the
trick.  If anyone takes this odessy, keep us posted!

Eric


----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 10 18:39:23 1993
Subject: Re: Autometer Tach Help 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6010
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Tue, 10 Aug 93 13:30 EDT
> From:  emory!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!sas (s.a.sullivan)
> 

>Ok now I hope this doesn't insult your intelligence but some tachs have
>a button on them so you can set them for 4,6,8 cyl. My Autometer tach has
>this switch, but it isn't a monster size tach...hope this helps.....
>steve

No worry, you can't insult me.  I am getting older, more mellow, and
too busy to worry about what other people think of my hobbies.

I wish it was that easy, and I too have seen this on other tachs.  The
tach was handed to me the other day, "Make this work with the V6, someone
told me you have to clip one of these wires on the back.  We never had
any instructions for it."  So I clipped one.  No difference.  I then
decided to ask some questions :-).  I guess if I would have kept all of
Dave's company listings he posted a while back, Autometer may have been
listed and I could have just called them.

	-- Dan

[You too, can have that vendor list anytime you want it.  It is on the 
famous PE Mag file server. :-)  Just send mail to listserv@dixie.com
and in the body say "send vendors".  The file comes zipping back to you
in the email.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 10 18:48:55 1993
Subject: Re: GN  Tune up
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6011
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have an 86 GN.  I  had the car set-up (fuel pressure  increased ,  
boost increased, turbo ported , K&L cone air filter , advanced   
cam 3 degrees, changed injector timing,  tps set and a new chip) .  
This was professionally done  about a 2 years ago. I would like to  
determine if the car  is still running at peak efficiency.  What test  
equipment  would I need or maybe some software I could use to  
determine this. It should be something easy to use and  
inexpensive as I'm only a back yard mechanic with limited  
knowledge and funds.

----------
Posted by: emory!phibro.com!dimarinj
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 11 07:12:05 1993
Subject: Accelerator pumps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6012
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I noticed that there is a Holley 75 or 76 cc accelerator pump
listed in the catalogs.  Apparently, this one requires that you
have the 50 cc pump to start with, and then modifies something
in that setup.

Does anyone know what the 75 cc pump kit consists of?  Thanks.

Bob Hale                       hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 11 07:19:09 1993
Subject: Re: Autometer Tach Help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6013
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [You too, can have that vendor list anytime you want it.  It is on
-> the famous PE Mag file server. :-)  Just send mail to
-> listserv@dixie.com and in the body say "send vendors".  The file
-> comes zipping back to you in the email.  JGD]

 Dang.  I gotta send you a disk with the updated version.
        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 11 15:50:33 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6014
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: GN Tune up
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <#7jy+m=@dixie.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 11:45:13 GMT
Lines: 16

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>I have an 86 GN.  I  had the car set-up (fuel pressure  increased ,  
>boost increased, turbo ported , K&L cone air filter , advanced   
>cam 3 degrees, changed injector timing,  tps set and a new chip) .  
>This was professionally done  about a 2 years ago. I would like to  
>determine if the car  is still running at peak efficiency.  What test  
>equipment  would I need....

A stopwatch and an empty stretch of highway! :-)
  
--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 11 16:06:04 1993
Subject: Re:  Accelerator pumps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6015
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>From what I have seen, the 75 cc pump kit consists of a new pump, spring and
a spacer that goes between the fuel bowl and the 50 cc pump housing that you
already have.  Basically, it just makes the 50 cc pump housing taller to
accomodate a larger pump...  I can't remember if they give you a new pump arm
or not, but I think they might.

-- Steve
stm0@gte.com

   Steven T McClure     ex-'84 GPZ 750 Turbo pilot       stm0@gte.com
GTE Government Systems         DoD #0425              
  Needham, Ma. 02194            /*  Insert standard disclaimer here. */
Beta software: 'beta than nothing, and that's usually all it is...

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 11 18:45:03 1993
Subject: Another electric supply source
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6016
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I posted the phone number for Dr. K's last week and said I would
post the numbers for Ron Williams and Centech.

Well, I still haven't dug up Centech's (I know I pulled it out to
order a GM steering column mount ignition connector just two weeks
ago).  I did find Ron Williams, though.

Ron Williams Wires Works
800-292-1940 (order line)
215-485-1937 (info line)

They sell a lot of stuff for making your own harness (or will make one
up).  They have labeled wiring for the anal compulsive (OK, I wish I
had it).  They sell a lot of GM factory replacements, from harness
connects (not all, though) to fuel injection electronics.  

I use them mostly for their quick connects.

Richard

beckwith@ils.nwu.edu

Does anal compulsive have a hyphen?

----------
Posted by: emory!ogun.ils.nwu.edu!beckwith (Richard Beckwith)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 11 18:52:32 1993
Subject: D
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6017
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


  It's here!  I just got home with the chassis, or at least the
perimeter and lower sections.  Now I can block it up to ride height,
slide the dummy engine and transmission in, and wait for the wheels so
I can start laying out the uprights and A-arms.
                                                                                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 11 18:55:25 1993
Subject: Looking for strut setup
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6018
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Howdy race fabbers,
	We're building a Nissan 280Z tube frame road race car. Basically,
we've got 2000lbs and 300hp as the goals.
	We are looking for references to folks which are making front
strut assemblies that we could use in this application. We are particularly
interested in running BIG brakes, such as the Wildwood wide five hub setup.

Any leads would be much appreciated....

Filippo Morelli
bilge@maxim.com
Datsun Dynamics

----------
Posted by: emory!maxim.com!bilge (Filippo Morelli)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 11 19:00:11 1993
Subject: turbo hose
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6019
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm looking for an aftermarket substitute for the turbo hoses on a FIAT
Spider Turbo; the stock hoses are just barely long enough and have a
tendency to pop off. I haven't fully dissected the setup, but one hose
is the boost hose to the intake manifold, and I think the other is the
output from the wastegate. Maximum boost is about 7psi. Hose is about
3" in diameter.

I was going to try some of the high-temp aircraft vent hose, but wasn't
sure it will take the pressure - I figured I'd ask here first!

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 12 05:09:00 1993
Subject: Listus Interruptus
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6020
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm doing a little road trip tomorrow (thursday) so there will be no
list traffic until I return in the evening.

John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC                   | For a free sample magazine, send
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM)     | a digest-size 52 cent SASE 
Marietta, Ga     "Hotrods'n'computers"   | (Domestic) to PO Box 669728
jgd@dixie.com    "What could be better?" | Marietta, GA 30066

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 04:38:12 1993
Subject: Looking for strut setup
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6021
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->      We are looking for references to folks which are making front
-> strut assemblies that we could use in this application.

 Do the rules require you to run struts?  They're not really suited to
wide tires.  Since you're running a tube frame, it'd be better to run
A-arms if you can.
                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 04:47:14 1993
Subject: turbo hose
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6022
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> output from the wastegate. Maximum boost is about 7psi. Hose is about
-> 3" in diameter.

 Ask your parts guy to look in the Gates or other radiator hose catalog.
Some truck hoses are in the vicinity of 3", and they're carrying up to
20psi of hot water.  7psi of air should be a breeze.  (pun intended)
                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 04:56:42 1993
Subject: Harmonic balancers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6023
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The harmonic balancer on my '69 Camaro's 350 cracked where it wraps around
the nose of the crank.  It subsequently started to rattle around and tear the
nose of the crank and the key all to hell.  I first felt a vibration on the
freeway, then it got worse and worse on the way home, until when I was
pulling into the driveway and heard a load rattly noise.  I looked under the
hood to see the harmonic balancer wobbling back and forth about a 1/2".  The
power steering belt is all that was keeping it from flying right off.

I was unfortunate enough to have one of those undrilled cranks, so I couldn't
bolt the harmonic balancer on.  The engine had only about 5000 miles on it. I
had rebuilt it with forged TRW flat-top pistons, a 268 magnum cam, I'd ported
the heads etc.  Now I REALLY REGRET skimping on the crank.  I should have
looked for a drilled and tapped crank.

The harmonic balancer which cracked and destroyed the crank was one that I'd
bought at a swap meet.  The guy said it was from a '69 Z-28 and the numbers
on it proved it.  What a piece of crap it turned out to be.

The replacement I bought from PAW for $111.00 is a GM Off-Road Heavy Duty
balancer.  It's got a Nodular Iron inertia ring rather than cast.  It looks a
lot thicker too.

Has anyone used one of these heavy duty balancers with good luck?  Also, will
I need to use some sort of spacers on the accessory pulleys to get them to
line up with the thicker balancer?

Because the crank is destroyed, I'm going to have to tear the whole engine
apart.  I'm going to use a brand new GM crank which I've ordered from Summit
for $139.00.  It's not in their catalog, but sounds like a good deal.  The
new cranks are nitrided, while the turned down ones aren't.  Hopefully I'll
have better luck with the new crank and heavy duty balancer.

I thought $200.00 + for a Fluidamper was a little overkill for a street
engine.  With my gearing and a TH350, I rarely get over 4500 rpm.  So I hope
the heavy duty GM part will fit the bill.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 04:59:58 1993
Subject: Re: Another electric supply source
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6028
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Well, I still haven't dug up Centech's (I know I pulled it out to
>order a GM steering column mount ignition connector just two weeks
>ago).  I did find Ron Williams, though.

Centech, INC.
800-356-0356 (orders)
215-287-5730 (info)

>Ron Williams Wires Works
>800-292-1940 (order line)
>215-485-1937 (info line)

Shouldn't that be Ron Francis Wire Works?

>----------
>Posted by: emory!ogun.ils.nwu.edu!beckwith (Richard Beckwith)
> 

   Bill Drake   -   bill@ecn.purdue.edu

   47 Ford Coupe////454/AT/3:00//// the "Fat Rat"
   69 Camaro convertible////327/AT/2:73
   73 Camaro LT

----------
Posted by: emory!ecn.purdue.edu!bill
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 05:15:18 1993
Subject: Re: GN 3.8 into F-body
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6024
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> >  The '68 Camaro is lighter than the Buick shoebox and you would gain
> > even more with the weight difference between the Buick and Chevy
> > engines.  A GN-powered Camaro would be a dynamite street ride with some
> > decent suspension under it!
> 
> Yeah, rear coil-over shocks, a 3-link , and 90's tires might be the
> trick.  If anyone takes this odessy, keep us posted!
> 
> Eric
> 
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 


G.M.  did all this for you in the(not sure of the year) 88-91, about,
when they built the Anniversary Edition Trans-Am with the GN turbo
motor.  So all the parts to do it are out there.

----------
Posted by: emory!cray.com!rjm (Roger Mrdutt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 05:27:50 1993
Subject: Sealing tape needed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6025
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Many cars use a foam rubber type of sealing strip with an adhesive
tape backing to seal the air ducts.  However, the stuff that I have
been able to buy at auto parts stores has a nasty habit of turning
back into tar after a couple of years and falling out of the joints.
This causes both a mess and air duct leaks.

Can anyone suggest a place where I can get some _good_ sealing tape?
I'm not adverse to paying a decent price for some decent tape.  Thanks.

Bob Hale                       hale@brooktree.com

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 05:35:32 1993
Subject: Re: Another electric supply source
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6026
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> I posted the phone number for Dr. K's last week and said I would
> post the numbers for Ron Williams and Centech.
> 
> Ron Williams Wires Works
> 800-292-1940 (order line)
> 215-485-1937 (info line)
> 
> Richard
> 
> beckwith@ils.nwu.edu
> 
I think that's Ron Francis Wire Works - Chester, PA.

And Centech in Perkiomenville, PA is (215)287-6707

Both are within a twenty mile radius of my home. And both have a good 
reputation with local rodders.

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 05:39:38 1993
Subject: Re: turbo hose
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6027
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>I'm looking for an aftermarket substitute for the turbo hoses on a FIAT
>Spider Turbo; the stock hoses are just barely long enough and have a
>tendency to pop off. I haven't fully dissected the setup, but one hose
>is the boost hose to the intake manifold, and I think the other is the
>output from the wastegate. Maximum boost is about 7psi. Hose is about
>3" in diameter.
 

	I just replaced mine on my turbo 240Z. I bought a universal radiator
hose. I used one of the ends (the only smooth part of the hose), it was just
the right size (3" diameter, 3" long). I've run the boost up to 20psi without
any problems.

	If you want to buy one with steel reinforcement, Turbo City sells
them. Their address is below.

	Pete

Turbo City                      
1137 W. Katella
Orange, CA 92667
(714) 639 4933
(714) 997 1196 (fax)

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 19:09:36 1993
Subject: Re: Another electric supply source
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6029
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> 
> Shouldn't that be Ron Francis Wire Works?
> 
> >----------
> >Posted by: emory!ogun.ils.nwu.edu!beckwith (Richard Beckwith)
> > 
> 
>    Bill Drake   -   bill@ecn.purdue.edu

Sure should.

Make that

Ron Francis Wires Works
800-292-1940 (order line)
215-485-1937 (info line)

Thanks

Richard

beckwith@ils.nwu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!ogun.ils.nwu.edu!beckwith (Richard Beckwith)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 13 19:15:14 1993
Subject: Re: turbo hose 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6030
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	I just replaced mine on my turbo 240Z. I bought a universal radiator
	hose.

Really? And no problems with exhaust heat? This hose sits right by the
exhaust manifold...

I was thinking I'd use some of the Aeroquip duct host (CAT/SCAT/SCEET)... 

[I'd be a bit concerned about heat too, though from the compressed air
more than exhaust heat.  I recently bought some Aeroquip duct hose
for a project.  NAPA clipped me $10 a foot!  Lucky I only needed a foot.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Aug 14 18:08:02 1993
Subject: Re: turbo hose 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6031
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	[I'd be a bit concerned about heat too, though from the compressed air
	more than exhaust heat.  I recently bought some Aeroquip duct hose
	for a project.  NAPA clipped me $10 a foot!  Lucky I only needed a foot.
	JGD]

Wow. Aircraft Spruce has the stuff- depending on the size and which
type, though, it can cost that much or more.

So, what kind of temperatures? The various Aeroquip hoses have the
following ratings:

CAT	-65 to > 300 deg F
SCAT	-80 to > 450
CEET	-65 to > 350
SCEET	-80 to > 500

The EE are like the A except have wire between plies. S means silicone
rubber impregnated fiberglass plies, instead of neoprene.

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Aug 14 18:18:00 1993
Subject: Re: turbo hose
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6032
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [I'd be a bit concerned about heat too, though from the compressed
-> air more than exhaust heat.  I recently bought some Aeroquip duct

 Exhaust heat you can fix by rigging a simple shield if you're worried.
As for the compressor - at 7psi, your intake air temp should still be
under 250F.
                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug 15 19:36:22 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6033
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
forum for  people interested in high performance vehicles to
exchange ideas and  discuss topics of current interest. This
list is chartered as broadly as possible consistent with  noise
supression.  I believe it to be more constructive to list
unacceptable topics and behavior rather than trying to
ennumerate permissible behavior. 

Unacceptable topics:  

*	Discussions about stock street cars.
*	Discussions about magic elixirs such as Slick 50 with no technical basis.
*	Ford vs Chevy vs ... bashing.
*	Foreign or domestic car bashing.
*	Purely Cosmetic issues concerning stock street cars.  (Buyer's guide
	to fuzzy dice/air fresheners, for example.)
*	Usenet-style flaming of any sort.

Explicitly acceptable is any discussion regarding increasing the performance
of any vehicle.   "For Sale" and other commercial messages, tastefully
done, are permitted.  Please, no hype.

To subscribe to this list, send email to hotrod-request@dixie.com.

Include on the Subject: line the keyword "subscribe" and a return path to 
your site.  Example:  If you are at foo@bar.edu,

Subject: Subscribe foo@bar.edu

If you do not include a return path, my Incredibly Dumb Mail Slave will
try to extract a path from your mail header.  If it does not  work, this
slightly less dumb mail manager (me) will not intervene.  Include a path.

To be dropped from the list, mail to hotrod-request@dixie.com with the 
following subject line:

Subject: drop foo@bar.edu

The address given MUST be EXACTLY the same as the address you used to 
subscribe with.

To post to the list, send mail to hotrod@dixie.com.  Please
include  a meaningful subject line.  Inquiries, and other administrivia should 
be addressed to jgd@dixie.com.   

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The list is echoed to Usenet on alt.hotrod.  You may be able to get this
group at your site.  In order to ensure your post is properly returned
to the list, be sure to mark alt.hotrod moderated and point the mailfile
back to hotrod@dixie.com.

If you get alt.hotrod, I urge you to use that venue instead of subscribing
to the list.  The list membership is approaching 300 which makes things,
ummm, interesting here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of people ask if they are missing articles or if they have been 
unsubscribed from the list.  There are easy answers to these questions.
Each article is assigned a sequential serial number that is contained
in the mail header X-sequence:  If you see missing numbers, you know
you have missed articles.  See below for the archive site.

The only two reasons anyone is ever unsubscribed from the list is a) if
that person asks and b) if mail to an address bounces.  Because of the
way mail agents handle undeliverable mail, I get gobs of bounced
messages.  That combined with the volume of the list means I must 
remove an address on the first round of bouncing.  If you are on
an Internet-based machine that uses SMTP, being down for even a 
short time will result in bouncing.  UUCP sites seem to have about a
day of cushion.  The volume of messages on the list is seldom less
than 10 messages a day even on the weekend so if you don't get 
messages for a day, you know you're off the list.  Simply send a new
subscription request to rejoin.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following sites maintain archives:

ece.rutgers.edu archives the hotrod and the z-car mailing lists.  This is
available only via anonymous ftp.  Jialin Li is the contact.  
jialin@ece.rutgers.edu

Hotrod-related GIFs (and others) are archived at ftp.nau.edu.  Unfortunately
the university does not allow incoming anonymous ftp so new GIFs must
be mailed to Milam, met@sunset.cse.nau.edu.  

These archive addresses are noted in the mail headers of each message.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I maintain a mail file server on dixie.com.  This is primarily to support
articles in my magazine, Performance Engineering (TM) but it is also
useful to hotrod list members. Software for articles and other car-related
files are available.  To get a directory, mail to 

	listserv@dixie.com

In the BODY of the message, include the statement 

address foo@bar.com                     <<-- optional.  Where you want it sent
Index

to get a file,

send file_name

If you get empty messages in return, that means the very sorry server
software I'm now using has crashed.  Send another request.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug 15 19:36:25 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6034
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
forum for  people interested in high performance vehicles to
exchange ideas and  discuss topics of current interest. This
list is chartered as broadly as possible consistent with  noise
supression.  I believe it to be more constructive to list
unacceptable topics and behavior rather than trying to
ennumerate permissible behavior. 

Unacceptable topics:  

*	Discussions about stock street cars.
*	Discussions about magic elixirs such as Slick 50 with no technical basis.
*	Ford vs Chevy vs ... bashing.
*	Foreign or domestic car bashing.
*	Purely Cosmetic issues concerning stock street cars.  (Buyer's guide
	to fuzzy dice/air fresheners, for example.)
*	Usenet-style flaming of any sort.

Explicitly acceptable is any discussion regarding increasing the performance
of any vehicle.   "For Sale" and other commercial messages, tastefully
done, are permitted.  Please, no hype.

To subscribe to this list, send email to hotrod-request@dixie.com.

Include on the Subject: line the keyword "subscribe" and a return path to 
your site.  Example:  If you are at foo@bar.edu,

Subject: Subscribe foo@bar.edu

If you do not include a return path, my Incredibly Dumb Mail Slave will
try to extract a path from your mail header.  If it does not  work, this
slightly less dumb mail manager (me) will not intervene.  Include a path.

To be dropped from the list, mail to hotrod-request@dixie.com with the 
following subject line:

Subject: drop foo@bar.edu

The address given MUST be EXACTLY the same as the address you used to 
subscribe with.

To post to the list, send mail to hotrod@dixie.com.  Please
include  a meaningful subject line.  Inquiries, and other administrivia should 
be addressed to jgd@dixie.com.   

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The list is echoed to Usenet on alt.hotrod.  You may be able to get this
group at your site.  In order to ensure your post is properly returned
to the list, be sure to mark alt.hotrod moderated and point the mailfile
back to hotrod@dixie.com.

If you get alt.hotrod, I urge you to use that venue instead of subscribing
to the list.  The list membership is approaching 300 which makes things,
ummm, interesting here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of people ask if they are missing articles or if they have been 
unsubscribed from the list.  There are easy answers to these questions.
Each article is assigned a sequential serial number that is contained
in the mail header X-sequence:  If you see missing numbers, you know
you have missed articles.  See below for the archive site.

The only two reasons anyone is ever unsubscribed from the list is a) if
that person asks and b) if mail to an address bounces.  Because of the
way mail agents handle undeliverable mail, I get gobs of bounced
messages.  That combined with the volume of the list means I must 
remove an address on the first round of bouncing.  If you are on
an Internet-based machine that uses SMTP, being down for even a 
short time will result in bouncing.  UUCP sites seem to have about a
day of cushion.  The volume of messages on the list is seldom less
than 10 messages a day even on the weekend so if you don't get 
messages for a day, you know you're off the list.  Simply send a new
subscription request to rejoin.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following sites maintain archives:

ece.rutgers.edu archives the hotrod and the z-car mailing lists.  This is
available only via anonymous ftp.  Jialin Li is the contact.  
jialin@ece.rutgers.edu

Hotrod-related GIFs (and others) are archived at ftp.nau.edu.  Unfortunately
the university does not allow incoming anonymous ftp so new GIFs must
be mailed to Milam, met@sunset.cse.nau.edu.  

These archive addresses are noted in the mail headers of each message.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I maintain a mail file server on dixie.com.  This is primarily to support
articles in my magazine, Performance Engineering (TM) but it is also
useful to hotrod list members. Software for articles and other car-related
files are available.  To get a directory, mail to 

	listserv@dixie.com

In the BODY of the message, include the statement 

address foo@bar.com                     <<-- optional.  Where you want it sent
Index

to get a file,

send file_name

If you get empty messages in return, that means the very sorry server
software I'm now using has crashed.  Send another request.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 20:45:22 1993
Subject: Jacob's Ignition System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6035
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Has anyone had any experience with a Jacob's Energy Team ignition system?

I'd also appreciate any info on any of their products.

Customer satisfaction is also something I'd like to hear about.

Thanx - Joe 

[Executive summary:  Overpriced, grossly over-hyped, garden-variety CDI 
ignition that does nothing extraordinary and brings to the table all the 
problems associated with single spark CDI.  This is an FAQ (if 
we actually had an FAQ) so see the archives for details.  If you don't
want to go the cost of an MSD system, a high output coil (Accel, Mallory,
etc) with a high capacity OEM-style electronic box works very well
and is MUCH cheaper.  I've found that the stock Chrysler box that
can be had at Walmart for $16 is just fine for up to about 6000 RPM on
a V-8.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!ccsua.ctstateu.edu!parys
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 20:45:23 1993
Subject: Jacob's Ignition System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6035
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Has anyone had any experience with a Jacob's Energy Team ignition system?

I'd also appreciate any info on any of their products.

Customer satisfaction is also something I'd like to hear about.

Thanx - Joe 

[Executive summary:  Overpriced, grossly over-hyped, garden-variety CDI 
ignition that does nothing extraordinary and brings to the table all the 
problems associated with single spark CDI.  This is an FAQ (if 
we actually had an FAQ) so see the archives for details.  If you don't
want to go the cost of an MSD system, a high output coil (Accel, Mallory,
etc) with a high capacity OEM-style electronic box works very well
and is MUCH cheaper.  I've found that the stock Chrysler box that
can be had at Walmart for $16 is just fine for up to about 6000 RPM on
a V-8.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!ccsua.ctstateu.edu!parys
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 20:54:12 1993
Subject: new style GM alternators
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6036
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


   Howdy all,

  I'm having some difficulty hooking up my car's electrical harness(85 F-body
with a 2 terminal alternator connector) to a new style GM alternator (with 4
terminals).  The reason I need the new GM alternator(87 up I think) is to run 
with the serpentine setup of the 89 TPI motor I've put in. 

   Now thanks to Richard I've aquired the 4 terminal connector to plug in to 
the new alternator, now I need to know which wires to hook up to the electrical
harness.  Actually there is only one wire coming from the electrical harness
(a red wire about 16 Ga) the other wire just connected the second terminal of 
the old alternator to its Bat terminal.

   The new connector has 1 fat terminal(about 12 or 14 Ga) and 3 skiny ones
(about 16 or 18 Ga). The fat one is labeled with an S and the others F,L,P
respectively on the connector itself.  The P terminal (last) however does not
have a hole on the rubber boot instead a circle indicating where it is.

   Now I guss (a wild one) that the red wire coming from the harness is an 
ign wire used to charge the field coil.  I need to know which terminal to 
hook this wire up to and whether I'm going to need to connect any of the 
other terminals to the Bat terminal.


						Thanks in advance


Mark Frouhar    frouharf@acf2.nyu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!acf2.NYU.EDU!frouharf (frouharf)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 20:54:12 1993
Subject: new style GM alternators
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6037
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


   Howdy all,

  I'm having some difficulty hooking up my car's electrical harness(85 F-body
with a 2 terminal alternator connector) to a new style GM alternator (with 4
terminals).  The reason I need the new GM alternator(87 up I think) is to run 
with the serpentine setup of the 89 TPI motor I've put in. 

   Now thanks to Richard I've aquired the 4 terminal connector to plug in to 
the new alternator, now I need to know which wires to hook up to the electrical
harness.  Actually there is only one wire coming from the electrical harness
(a red wire about 16 Ga) the other wire just connected the second terminal of 
the old alternator to its Bat terminal.

   The new connector has 1 fat terminal(about 12 or 14 Ga) and 3 skiny ones
(about 16 or 18 Ga). The fat one is labeled with an S and the others F,L,P
respectively on the connector itself.  The P terminal (last) however does not
have a hole on the rubber boot instead a circle indicating where it is.

   Now I guss (a wild one) that the red wire coming from the harness is an 
ign wire used to charge the field coil.  I need to know which terminal to 
hook this wire up to and whether I'm going to need to connect any of the 
other terminals to the Bat terminal.


						Thanks in advance


Mark Frouhar    frouharf@acf2.nyu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!acf2.NYU.EDU!frouharf (frouharf)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 21:03:38 1993
Subject: P.E.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6038
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                      P.E.
Got my issue of 'Performance Engineering' on Friday last week...  *Nice* mag...
worth the price of admission and worth the wait.  Congrats, John!

Walt K.

[Thanks a million.  Glad to hear the postal workers are doing their thing
without too much delay.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: "ERDR/Walt Koziarz" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 21:03:42 1993
Subject: P.E.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6039
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                      P.E.
Got my issue of 'Performance Engineering' on Friday last week...  *Nice* mag...
worth the price of admission and worth the wait.  Congrats, John!

Walt K.

[Thanks a million.  Glad to hear the postal workers are doing their thing
without too much delay.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: "ERDR/Walt Koziarz" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 21:12:16 1993
Subject: 02 sensor help!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6040
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> O2 Sensor setup, etc <

.....

>The O2 sensor I used was a freebie 1-wire type. A 3-wire is better for
reasons I'll go into in a bit, but costs more.                                 

We are interested in putting an 02 sensor in a Datsun 240Z SCCA ITS class
road race car. The Datsun has a six into two header (where three cylinders
being fed by one carburetor) into a dual exhaust system. We are interested in
monitoring the air / fuel ratio of each carb (3 cylinders) while the car is at
speed to determine efficiency at high RPM.

We understand K & N makes an air/fuel monitor that retails for $139.00. Can we
inexpensively duplicate this device or do you have a better, less expensive
alternative.

Also, does the 02 sensor develop its own voltage or is it a variable
resistance device? Any explanation (reference material, etc.) on how this
operates would be greatly appreciated.


Roger Hensley
Patriot Motorsports
1099 N. 16th St.
Otsego, Mi 49078

[Cyberdyne makes an in-dash A/F indicator that lists for $29 in Summit's
catalog.  Don't pay a dime more.  Many of these things are labeled with
wide range A/F ratios.  Since the standard O2 sensor covers a narrow range
around stoich, this labeling is fraudulent.  As long as standard production
O2 sensors are used (UEGOs sensors by themselves cost several hundred bux),
all the displays must work the same.  If you want an analog readout,
a simple analog meter with an op-amp buffer does the trick.  the voltage
range from the sensor is 0-1 volt at high impedance so gain isn't necessary;
only buffering.  

For references, see the archives plus SAE's "Sensors and Actuators" 
publication from the last few years.  More info than you can stand.  
Remember though, lead-free gas only.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 21:12:20 1993
Subject: 02 sensor help!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6041
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> O2 Sensor setup, etc <

.....

>The O2 sensor I used was a freebie 1-wire type. A 3-wire is better for
reasons I'll go into in a bit, but costs more.                                 

We are interested in putting an 02 sensor in a Datsun 240Z SCCA ITS class
road race car. The Datsun has a six into two header (where three cylinders
being fed by one carburetor) into a dual exhaust system. We are interested in
monitoring the air / fuel ratio of each carb (3 cylinders) while the car is at
speed to determine efficiency at high RPM.

We understand K & N makes an air/fuel monitor that retails for $139.00. Can we
inexpensively duplicate this device or do you have a better, less expensive
alternative.

Also, does the 02 sensor develop its own voltage or is it a variable
resistance device? Any explanation (reference material, etc.) on how this
operates would be greatly appreciated.


Roger Hensley
Patriot Motorsports
1099 N. 16th St.
Otsego, Mi 49078

[Cyberdyne makes an in-dash A/F indicator that lists for $29 in Summit's
catalog.  Don't pay a dime more.  Many of these things are labeled with
wide range A/F ratios.  Since the standard O2 sensor covers a narrow range
around stoich, this labeling is fraudulent.  As long as standard production
O2 sensors are used (UEGOs sensors by themselves cost several hundred bux),
all the displays must work the same.  If you want an analog readout,
a simple analog meter with an op-amp buffer does the trick.  the voltage
range from the sensor is 0-1 volt at high impedance so gain isn't necessary;
only buffering.  

For references, see the archives plus SAE's "Sensors and Actuators" 
publication from the last few years.  More info than you can stand.  
Remember though, lead-free gas only.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 21:25:04 1993
Subject:      nitrous info sought
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6042
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

    Anyone have any info on low-dose nitrous setups they would be
willing to share? Especially as applied to 2-stroke motors, gas/oil
or alcohol/oil fuel. How much can you use for say 10 seconds without
meltdown? Anyone supply very small tanks, etc.?

-Bill-
martin@cubic.com
(619) 627-4516

----------
Posted by: "Bill Martin"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 16 21:25:06 1993
Subject:      nitrous info sought
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6043
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

    Anyone have any info on low-dose nitrous setups they would be
willing to share? Especially as applied to 2-stroke motors, gas/oil
or alcohol/oil fuel. How much can you use for say 10 seconds without
meltdown? Anyone supply very small tanks, etc.?

-Bill-
martin@cubic.com
(619) 627-4516

----------
Posted by: "Bill Martin"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 17 07:55:15 1993
Subject: Re: turbo hose
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6044
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List wrote:
> 
> 	I just replaced mine on my turbo 240Z. I bought a universal radiator
> 	hose.
> 
> Really? And no problems with exhaust heat? This hose sits right by the
> exhaust manifold...
> 
> [I'd be a bit concerned about heat too, though from the compressed air
> more than exhaust heat.  I recently bought some Aeroquip duct hose
> for a project.  NAPA clipped me $10 a foot!  Lucky I only needed a foot.
> JGD]

I use exhaust hose for boats.  They can't take the heat of pure exhaust,
since they're designed for use with a water-cooled exhaust system, but
they are more than adequate for the intake in short sections.  They can
take more than 25psi (at least for a section of approximately. 3 inches
since that's the longest section I used it for).  It is not very pliable,
and has a spiral-wound wire making it a little hard to cut and bend.  If
you need a straight shot to connect to tubes, its hard to beat.

--DAVE (johnson@wrs.com)

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 17 08:00:13 1993
Subject: linear O2 sensors?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6045
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Speaking of O2 sensors, does anyone know of sensors out there which
have a linear output rather than the "standard" Bosch unit which
has a rather sharp bend right around stoichometric?  It's been
my experience that all the various air/fuel meters DON'T do
a very good job of indicating the mixture at all and sit at
either full lean or full rich most of the time...

>UEGOs sensors ??
I'll check out the archives and see what this is all about :-)  Thanks.

Jim TenCate
jtc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
(1980 fuel injected TR8)

PS:  please forgive if this subject has been beaten to death already.
I've just joined :-)

[It has, but no problem :-)  Look back at least 6 months ago where 
Jon Lusky, myself and someone else whose name I can't recall posted
a list of suppliers.  No sensor is linear but the UEGO generally come
with electronics that linearize them.  The Honda leanburn engines
come with a UEGO but the linearization is done in the ECU.  Horiba
sells a frighteningly expensive piece of test equipment based on a UEGO.  
Motes (see vendor list) from Australia has a much more reasonable unit but 
it still costs close to a kilobuck.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: "James A. TenCate" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 17 16:41:54 1993
Subject: Pick a rotor...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6046
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Well I am rebuilding the 6 port-13B rotary engine to stand up to the
supercharger.  This is a Camden roots type (positive displacement) blower
running at 10 psi.  I have found two schools of thought: one is use
the low compression rotors even though they only have 2mm thick apex
seals.  The other thought is to use '85 GSL-SE rotors since they have
3mm thick apex seals even though the rotors are about 1.5 lbs heavier
and are the same compression as the stock rotors.

I have talked to Racing Beat, Mazda Motor Sports, Mazda Trix, HKS, Rotary
Engineering, Rotary Performance...Some of the Co's are full of bull,
others are unsure, the rest are split between the two options.  One
said to get the low compression rotors and have them machined to hold
the thicker apex seals($$$$$).

I am doing lots of oil and cooling mods as well.


I would be interested in hearing from people who HAVE turbo'd or SC
a rotary.

Thanks
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 17 16:45:56 1993
Subject: Re: Jacob's Ignition System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6047
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	I've read that Jacob`s now offers a pressure retard ignition for
turbo-super charged vehicles. Has anyone had any experience with this
product? Is it comparable with the MSD BTM (Boost Timming Master)?

	Pete

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 17 16:51:07 1993
Subject: bucket update
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6048
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hey hotrod list,
  I just thought I would give the gang a bucket status update...
(I'll try not to bore you guys too bad!  :-)  My friend Larry decided
to go ahead and put the NOS fogger on it before we started running
all the fuel lines, etc.  This thing is rapidly getting out of control
with switches and gauges!  (He also went ahead and bought the multi-step
retard box for the MSD 6AL!)  We had Sunny's Automotive in Lynchburgh
install the fogger (_lots_ of line-bending!!!!) in the tunnel ram and it
looks _goooooood_!  Since the car is so short, we need a shorter nitrous
line (we only need about 1.5-2.0 feet.) Would Aeroquip supply something
like this?????  We have too much time and money in this thing to cheeze
out the nitrous lines!

  Anyway, we ran through the numbers and decided that although the Holley
blue pumps would probably be sufficient, we went ahead and got a couple
Mallory 140's and a couple monster fram filters.  We will run one Mallory
up to the pressure bypass line, with a return, to the two 660's.  The other
Mallory will feed the nitrous fuel solenoids through a standard Mallory
(non-bypass) pressure regulator.

Other than getting shorter nitrous braided line, there is pretty much only
fuel delivery and wiring left.  I sure as hell can appreciate why those
companies charge soooooo much for kits; all this fabrication and crap
takes lots 'o time!!!!  

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions on the fuel system; it is looking
good on paper as well as in person!

jC.  jca@fibercom.com

ps:
Hey John,
  I have been receiving duplicates of list messages lately...  and the
traffic  has only been ~5 messages a day. (not including dups.)

[Traffic drops to almost zero on the weekends.  Hmmm, could that mean we're
all out actually PLAYING with our rods? :-)  Duplicate messages were 
compliments of my incredibly well written list management software.
A lock file got blown away.  Another copy of the daemon started from
cron and they both merrily went along mailing each message from the 
outqueue.  One daemon's dead now.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James C. Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 17 16:55:54 1993
Subject: Re:  Jacob's Ignition System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6049
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Joe asks, and John comments:

>Has anyone had any experience with a Jacob's Energy Team ignition system?
>
>I'd also appreciate any info on any of their products.
>
>Customer satisfaction is also something I'd like to hear about.
>
>Thanx - Joe 
>
>[Executive summary:  Overpriced, grossly over-hyped, garden-variety CDI 
>ignition that does nothing extraordinary and brings to the table all the 
>problems associated with single spark CDI.  This is an FAQ (if 
>we actually had an FAQ) so see the archives for details.  If you don't
>want to go the cost of an MSD system, a high output coil (Accel, Mallory,
>etc) with a high capacity OEM-style electronic box works very well
>and is MUCH cheaper.  I've found that the stock Chrysler box that
>can be had at Walmart for $16 is just fine for up to about 6000 RPM on
>a V-8.  JGD]
>----------
>Posted by: emory!ccsua.ctstateu.edu!parys

John, am I to understand that since the last time you and I discussed this
topic you've had the chance to look at one of these units closely and disprove
what the doctor is claiming, or am I assuming too much?  Just curious!

Phil

[Yes that is true.  Jeff Deifik sent me one along with a "sooper dooper 
energy coil".  I don't have a copy of his patent so I don't know what I'm
*supposed* to observe but what I saw is this.  The unit fires what is
essentially a signle distorted sinusiod of high voltage into the coil.
According to The Doctor, this is supposed to cause the high voltage secondary
to reverse polarity and "replate eroded plug material" and a bunch of other
voo-doo.  The secondary voltage does reverse but only incrementally more
than with a regular system.  The energy delivered is unremarkable and since
it is a single pulse CDI, it suffers from the same problems associated with
short sparks as any other CDI.  I ran several tests to try and detect any 
"replating of eroded plug material".  This included firing a plug at 
10,000 RPM equivalent for a couple of weeks, firing a gap composed of very
thin copper wires for the same interval and a gap composed of iron wires.
An MSD box fired side by side with it.  I could detect NO difference in
gap erosion.  Essentially none on the plug, some on the copper and a lot
with the iron.  I could detect NO difference in the coil.  I looked at
inductance, ratio, saturation (thinking it might be a swinging transformer)
and resistance.  Looks like just another coil to me.

If you want to get a rather ordinary CDI box and at the same time fund
an amazing hype and telemarketing operation (I had a hell of a time getting
their telemarketers off my phone after I called for a catalog), then the
Jacobs is your box.  Otherwise look elsewhere.  

I should note that Jeff's box is an older model.  Their current box is in a
famcier box but I have no reason to believe the performance is any 
different.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!prg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 17 17:01:34 1993
Subject: 370-460 questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6050
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Some of you may remember that I posted some questions about a Ford
F700 3-ton truck I was considering buying.  Well, I bought it!  This
is one serious race-car hauler. :-)

The truck has a 370 with a two barrel on it. :-(
I am planning on putting a 460 with four barrel on it.

Would I be better off rebuilding the 370 block and using a 460 crank,
or something like that?  Does anyone know what the exact differences
between the 370 and 460 are?  It was someone in this list that told me
that the 370 was in the 460 family.

I would consider rebuilding the 370 if the 370 is significantly
heavier duty than the 460.  Of course, I haven't heard anyone complain
about the the 460 being too weak for a towing application.

Anybody want to buy a used 370 engine?  I'll take a 460 on trade.  :-)

Thanks,

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 17 17:06:06 1993
Subject: Edlebrock surging
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6051
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have an Edlebrock (Carter AFB) on a 327 with mild mods- cam, 11-1's,
headers, 340 hp 327 intake, turbo 350, 3.73's. This problen happened with
the 2 Holleys before it too. It starts, idles, accelerates just fine,
but once in top gear and criusing, jeese I love cruising, the car
seems to surge, almost a leaning out? like feeling. It is not that bad,
but still noticeable. The second I open the throttle a little, it goes
away. Is there a possible jet/power rod change in my future??

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 00:40:03 1993
Subject: Rochester Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6052
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hey,

I would like some carb suggestions.

I have a 71 el camino with a 350 engine and a 2bbl carb.  I want
to go to a 4bbl carb that flows something like 600 cfm, and want
to stay california emissions legal.

I can get the rochester replacement 4bbl carb for my year motor
from the auto parts club for something like 125.00, a lot less
then a emissions holley.

Is it worth paying more for a holley or other more performance
oriented carb?  I dont need too much more power, and I would like
to get reasonable fuel economy (better then 12mpg).

Does anyone have advice?

Please respond via email.

Thanks
dan
deo@physics.berkeley

----------
Posted by: emory!physics5.berkeley.edu!deo (Daniel Osgood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 00:48:35 1993
Subject: Re: linear O2 sensors?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6053
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:

>Look back at least 6 months ago where 
>Jon Lusky, myself and someone else whose name I can't recall posted
>a list of suppliers.  No sensor is linear but the UEGO generally come
>with electronics that linearize them.  The Honda leanburn engines
>come with a UEGO but the linearization is done in the ECU.  Horiba
>sells a frighteningly expensive piece of test equipment based on a UEGO.  
>Motes (see vendor list) from Australia has a much more reasonable unit but 
>it still costs close to a kilobuck.  JGD]

I mentioned this before, but now that I'm actually using the thing I'll
follow up.  I'm using Bosch  P/N 0 258 104 002 list $224.06 "wide range
O2 sensor" (don't remember what I paid but it is around $200.00) in a
combustion control prototype (not auto related).  This is a product
used only in Europe-only FIATS.

Bosch was helpful, identified the part quickly, had it sent to a local
auto parts store and mailed the technical notes on the part, including
the curves.  The curve is similar to what you see in a normal O2
sensor.  By the time I spent $200.00 for the sensor, bought a hefty 12
V power supply and a relay for the heater and developed the software I
may have been better off buying the Motes unit.

If anyone can identify lower cost lean burn O2 sensors I'm interested.
This is a one off and Bosch assistance makes it worth the $200.00 but
if we make many more I'll be cost conscious.  Does anyone have a
reference for the Honda O2 sensor or the model it is used in (I imagine
it is that high mileage one that isn't available in CA)?
-- 
Peter Dufault               Real Time Machine Control and Simulation
HD Associates               Voice: 508 433 6936
hd@world.std.com            Fax:   508 433 5267
Looking for: Orangey-brown front leather seats or NOS covers for '73 BMW 3.0cs

----------
Posted by: emory!world.std.com!hd (HD Associates)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 00:57:10 1993
Subject: Anyone had experience building a Ford 460?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6054
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I don't want to start a Ford vs. Chevy war, but I want to know what kind of
experience people have had with Ford 460s.  I've built four small-block Chevys
myself, but have no experience with Fords except for some minor work on the
valvetrain of a 390 in a '61 T-Bird.

Is the 460 capable of say 5500 rpm?  Is it a torque monster?  Is it heavier
than a Chevy 454?  Is it hard to fit into street rods (backwards oil pan or
something?)

The parts to build a 460 seem to be about 30 to 50% more expensive than a
comparable Chevy.  Is it because they are less common?   Or, are Ford 460s not
the ideal basis to build a monster out of.

I read all kinds of Hot Rod, Rod & Custom types of magazines, and rarely come
accross any articles about 460s --- How come?

Tom 

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 10:40:07 1993
Subject: 370-460 questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6055
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> The truck has a 370 with a two barrel on it. :-(

 As far as I know, all 370s were two barrels.


-> I am planning on putting a 460 with four barrel on it.

 Sounds good.


-> Would I be better off rebuilding the 370 block and using a 460 crank,
-> or something like that?  Does anyone know what the exact differences
-> between the 370 and 460 are?  It was someone in this list that told
-> me that the 370 was in the 460 family.

 The 370 was truck-only.  I don't have bore and stroke figures for it.
If it's a short stroke 429 you'd be OK, but if it's a smaller bore,
you'd be better off just getting a 429 or 460.  They're all the same
series of motor.


-> I would consider rebuilding the 370 if the 370 is significantly
-> heavier duty than the 460.  Of course, I haven't heard anyone
-> complain about the the 460 being too weak for a towing application.

 A friend of mine also just bought an F700 with a 370 (must be
catching?).  He's going to chuck the original cab and put the cap from
his '47 2-ton truck on.  He was originally going to try to swap all the
stuff from the F700 into the '47, but I talked him into doing it the
easy way.


-> Anybody want to buy a used 370 engine?  I'll take a 460 on trade.
-> :-)

 Tom is in basically the same position you are.  In my opinion, there's
nothing to lose by tearing down the 370 and looking at it.  If there's
nothing seriously wrong, rebuild it and put it back in.  It should have
adequate power.  If you buy a 429 or 460, you'd probably have to tear
it down and rebuild it anyway, right?

 The 370 might be worth something if you market it right.  Lots of short
tracks have a 366 cube displacement limit - 350 Chevy + .060 to small
Chrysler with a hone job.  Offset grind the crank down to .030 under,
and you'd barely make it.  Then scrounge up a set of the early 429
closed chamber, big valve heads.  The 429 heads are much like the
4-barrel Clevelands, except they don't have the weird dogleg exhaust
port.  Big block breathing on small block displacement... in an iron
motor class... yeah...  or if the class limit is 406, you're home free.
                                                                                                                               
----
The Courts of Chaos (501)985-0059  Free Usenet Access

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 10:48:04 1993
Subject: Edlebrock surging
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6056
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> but once in top gear and criusing, jeese I love cruising, the car
-> seems to surge, almost a leaning out? like feeling. It is not that
-> bad, but still noticeable. The second I open the throttle a little,
-> it goes away. Is there a possible jet/power rod change in my future??

 If it did it with the Holleys too, it's probably not carburetion.
Sounds like a classic case of weak ignition, or maybe a stopped up fuel
line or filter.  I'd check the ignition first.  You *are* running an
HEI, right?  Not points?
                                                        
----
The Courts of Chaos (501)985-0059  Free Usenet Access

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 18:48:09 1993
Subject: O2 sensors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6057
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:

>I mentioned this before, but now that I'm actually using the thing I'll
>follow up.  I'm using Bosch  P/N 0 258 104 002 list $224.06 "wide range
>O2 sensor" (don't remember what I paid but it is around $200.00) in a
>combustion control prototype (not auto related).  This is a product
>used only in Europe-only FIATS.

----------
Posted by: emory!world.std.com!hd (HD Associates)
 
I've got a drawer full of Bosch part number 258 104 002. They are commonly
referred to as the Bosch LSM-11 and are designed for use with lean burn engines.
They act like a normal switching type ego sensor with an extension of the lean
side of the curve. Bosch themselves claim performance up to ~lambda=1.2. It is
not a UEGO sensor by any stretch.

The Honda sensor is inddeed in the VX models of the Honda Civic with the lean
burn engine although the interface electronics are within the ECU. I have 
managed to scrounge some info from NTK on what the interface does but not
exactly what it looks like electrically. I posted the part number of the
Honda sensor a few months back. You might check the archives. All my info is
in boxes sitting in my new place in TN. 

Jeff Armfield
armfield@mn.ecn.purdue.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!ctccummins.cummins.com!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 18:53:49 1993
Subject: Re:  Anyone had experience building a Ford 460?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6058
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


You will find that most 460 CID Ford engines these days come in their
large trucks.  The 385-series engine family (370, 429, 429CJ, 429SCJ,
429 Boss, and 460) is in my opinion a great block to build on. The
1970 Merc I've got sports a 429CJ, that at 11:1 compression, was
touted as delivering an awesome 360Hp and something like 480 Ft-lbs
torque at about 4500rpm.  

Correctly carbureted (or injected), and with an aftermarket intake
and exhaust, these beasts will do well..

Punch one out to over 600CID, add some nitros, and go to town!
Mark F. Mitcham

----------
Posted by: emory!triton.unm.edu!markm
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 19:03:17 1993
Subject: another event this weekend.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6059
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                      another event this weekend...
Well, the second local truck pull event is this Saturday at 1900 (7:00 PM EDT).
 I am using this one as a 'checkout' for a freshly-fabricated hitch.  It's
exactly 26-inches high (the limit at Oneida County's event, no height limit
specified here...) and is moved forward with respect to the truck.  This time
out I should get a better weight transfer to the rear of the truck (make it
'squat-down') than I did earlier.  Now I have to re-assemble it to be able to
make 5800lbs and 6400lbs for the two stock classes.

Side-comment -- installing a receiver-hitch is *not* a one-person task... I got
one corner attached and while trying to attach the opposite corner I and the
creeper I was on got 'spit' sideways and I was stuck...  Good thing I have a
close and curious neighbor...  We got me unstuck and got the assembly installed
and had a couple Budwiesers to finish out the evening... It didn't help matters
the new one is approx 30% heavier than the old...

Walt K.


----------
Posted by: "ERDR/Walt Koziarz" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 19:12:19 1993
Subject: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6060
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  Though I now have two early Mustangs waiting for a new garage and my
loving touch, I've been thinking about something to do with my daily
driver:  an '84 S-10 w/2.8l V6 (carbureted).  It's a dog, partially
because it's getting a bit worn, but mostly because the stock 2.8 is a
toad.

  Any clever options for this motor?  My inclination (which places easy
Cubic Inch Displacement increase above all other mods) is to track down
a later EFI 4.6 V6 and drop it in.  I know the newer electronics are a
must, but are there any other pitfalls to worry about, i.e. exhaust.
Since the 4.6 was dropped in model year '85, I don't imagine the swap
would be that big a deal.

  Anybody done it?

  Ron "Needs New Shoes Every Two Weeks Because Of The Fred And Barney
       Routine" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 19:17:46 1993
Subject: Aluminum 350 & other stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6061
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I know that this subject is a couple of weeks old but I was in St. Louis, Mo.
(whole lotta flooding going on) and had no way to respond until I returned.

>I am looking to the development of:
>   a. light- ( aluminum block)
>   b. 350 ci. (desired as personal pref.)
>   c. Turbo.  w/adjustable wastegate
>   d. counter and normal rotation (for a twin)
>   e. 375 Hp. at 4500 rpm.
>   f. sea level to 18,000 feet operation (1/2 atmosphere)
>   g. gear or "belt" reduction to 2800 rpm output

> These are the major design constraints- I have been looking at this
> for several years.
> My old 69 SS Camaro , now belonging to my boy, may be the test bed
> he would love that.
> For you homebuilders I leave the applications to your dreams.

I am assuming this is going into an aircraft.

Ken: One of the guys that works with me owns a 1952 Cessna 172 with a 0-300
Continental producing 145 hp. We have been involved in developing a kit to
replace those great old expensive aircraft engines with a reliable water
cooled easy to maintain all aluminum chevrolet V-8 and V-6. To date we have
the parts list to put together a 10:1 350 V-8 which will develop 485 HP at
6200 rpm. We decided not to use a Turbo to both save weight and increase
reliability and be able to use high octane nonleaded automotive fuel instead
of aircraft or racing fuel.

For those of you reading this that are not familiar with aircraft engines,
these babies run slow, use old technology, are prone to leakage, must be
rebuilt periodically and are very expensive to operate, maintain and rebuild
(average overhaul $9,000.00 to $12,000.00 as long as nothing is seriously
wrong). This is due to the price of parts and the fact that to touch the
aircraft you must be certified (high priced). To get around the long term
expense, some people are putting automotive engines (of various makes) in
their aircraft and redesignating them as experimimental. This allows the
owners a lot more flexibilty and less expense in the long run. However, weight
and balance of an aircraft is critical. The key is to find a combination that
is as close to the original weight as possible, have good torque and
horsepower, not adversely impact the aerodynamics,  but most of all it must be
reliable.

A cast iron chevy V-8 bare block weighs 183 pounds, an aluminum block from
chevrolet weighs 92 pounds (four bolt main, cast sleeve, wet sump oil system).
A set of aluminum heads will save 20-40 lbs a piece average (exact weight
depends on manufacturer and P/N). Just in the heads and block their is a 130-
170 pound weight savings.

Here is what we put together as our base V-8 engine to market as a
replacement.

  - Aluminum chevy V-8, cast sleeves, wet sump oil system
  - 14 deg Brodix or dart heads (ported, flow tested and matched to intake and
    exhaust), Crower roller rockers and springs, stud girdles, guide plates,
    7/16 rocker studs, Manley stainless steel valves, bronze guides, hardened
    seats (for unleaded fuel), Crane 4140 Chrome-moly spring retainers and
    Wolverine 4130 single piece pushrods, etc.
  - Crower roller cam, 572 lift, 292 adv. duration, 108 deg. lobe center with
    rev kit. This cam makes gobs of low and mid range torque, excellent upper
    RPM horsepower and doesn't beat the valve train to death. This particular 
    cam is an experimental unit one of my sponsors gave me and we run it in
    our Sportman circle track car. I don't know how they (sponsors) came to 
    get this cam. Crower said they can reproduce this cam for us or sell us a
    mild race cam with very similar numbers. If you or anyone else is
    interested in the part number I'll give it to you as soon as I dig it out 
    of my files.
  - Reworked Dart or Brodix intake manifold.
  - Holley 750 dual feed, double pump with adjustable metering block.
  - Callies, Cola, Manley or Lunati 4340 steel forged non-twisted 48 lb.
    crank, magnuflux inspected (yes we check new parts), and checked for
    straightness and clearanced.
  - Oliver, Crower, Manley, Eagle or Childs & Albert 4340 6" H beam connecting 
    rods with 210,000 psi rod bolts, magnuflux inspected.
  - Diamond pistons with tool steel pins, Sealed Power Moly rings all parts
    Non-destructive inspected (Mag particle, Liquid Penetrant, X-ray, etc.)
  - Melling small block high volume pump.
  - Champ road race wet sump pan.
  - Stainless steel block hugger exhaust.
  - 1.5:1, 1.75:1 or 2:1 Belt reducer (depends on application)
  - Reworked GM HEI. It seems to be the most reliable. A vertex mag is
    available but we have had problems with these units in race cars. We have
    run one GM HEI in our sportman car turning 7500 RPM peak with absolutely
    no problems.
  - Fluidapmner balancer
  - Weind aluminum water pump
  - Radiator (Howe Aluminum) and plumbing is still being worked out for the
    Cessna 172.

The engine would be placed in the aircraft backwards. Rear Main to front of
aircraft. This is to transfer the high loads from prop to the beefiest area of
the engine and allow use of a common harmon dampner.

The price as a completed unit with a belt reducer, balanced, blueprinted,
inspected (as described above) assembled and tested is $23,000.00. The price
for just the parts (as described above) for anyone off the street is
$16,000.00 (discount mail order prices where applicable). This however does
not include the critical inspections (new parts can and do have flaws), the
clearancing of parts, balancing, assembly and testing. You MUST use the best,
most reliable parts available in an aircraft application. I haven't seen a 
reducer that reverses rotation of prop (I'm sure someone does or can make one) 
, but this would be the most cost effective way to reverse rotation for a twin
engine aircraft. It would cost an additional $1000.00 to $4000.00 dollars to
build a reverse rotation chevy (depends on manufacturer of parts).

As for running a V-6 Chevy or Buick, your still better off with an aluminum
block and heads. The effecient heat dissipation alone will allow less
expensive fuel to be used and you will add internal weight when going to the
beefier parts. As for Buick V-6's, they don't handle sustained high loads very
well unless you put some high dollar parts in them. The horsepower is way down
unless you turbocharge. Then your adding heat and weight plus reducing
reliability. Their is virtually no difference in price between a Buick V-6 and
an all aluminum chevy V-8 made for aircraft application. Their is a $2000.00
dollar difference between the chevy all aluminum V-8 and chevy all aluminum 90
deg. V-6. We did not consider the big block chevy in aluminum form due to the
physical size and weight differences. Too much modifying to airframe and skin.
The engine I described above makes the horsepower indicated due to the head,
intake manifold and cam combination. What makes this engine so attractive is
that their is nothing exotic (turbo/supercharging) that needs to be done to
this unit to get good torque and horsepower numbers plus rebuilds are very
inexpensive compared to that of OEM (aircraft).

For anyone interested in the specific part numbers that I mentioned above as
well as others we have used successfully and not so successfully. I would be
willing to share those part numbers along with comments on the various parts
for free. The list is in a data base and is rather lengthy to place on Email.
But if you would send a self addressed stamped envelope to me I'd be more than 
willing to share what we have learned.

The engine as described would make one outstanding street / strip engine. It
dissipates heat extremely well and can be used with high octane unleaded pump
fuel avaliable at most reputable stations. For those street applications, you
can reduce the cost of crank, rods, cam and associated valve train components,
less expensive exhaust and carburetor. For less HP applications you can go to
Corvette Aluminum heads. If you reduce compression to say 9.0:1 (dished
pistons) you can use cast iron Dart or Bowtie heads and still use pump gas.

There was a question that came up a few days ago about using stock cast iron
heads or aluminum heads. The cheapest aluminum heads are by far the most cost
effective route to go to increase horepower when compared to cast iron heads.
Their flow out of the box is generally better than cast. They are lighter,
have better design characteristics, they dissipate heat better (critical for
higher comp. ratios on pump gas), are easy to repair and can be sold easily
when you are in a pinch. The old style OEM heads (non Bowtie) I would stay
away from like the plague. They are prone to cracking and their HP potential
is way down compared to the GM Bowtie, Dart Sportsman or even the Dart S/R
Torquer heads which you can by from Jasper Engines in Jasper, Indiana for
$400.00 complete per pair.

For more info my address is:

Roger Hensley
Patriot Motorsports
1099 N. 16th st.
Otsego, Michigan 49078

----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 19:25:41 1993
Subject: Re: Anyone had experience building a Ford 460? 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6062
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Tue, 17 Aug 93 22:24 EDT
> From:  Tom Carver 
> 

I will reply to Bob Wise here as well.  Build the 460 for the
truck, Bob :-).

>I don't want to start a Ford vs. Chevy war, but I want to know what kind of
>experience people have had with Ford 460s.  I've built four small-block Chevys
>myself, but have no experience with Fords except for some minor work on the
>valvetrain of a 390 in a '61 T-Bird.

I have built both Ford and Chevy engines, and well, they both have pistons,
rods, cranks, etc. :-).  The one place the inexperienced builders always
seem to screw up is with the cam installation.  I have seen this happen
from the volume rebuilders.  Pay close attention to how the cam is secured
into the block and make sure the gears/chain are aligned.  There are the
differences with lifter bore angles and that sort of stuff, but any
competent machine shop should know this.

>Is the 460 capable of say 5500 rpm?  Is it a torque monster?  Is it heavier
>than a Chevy 454?  Is it hard to fit into street rods (backwards oil pan or
>something?)

The 460 is a torque monster and very capable of 5500 RPM.  I don't know
about the weight difference, just that both of these engines are heavy.
I recently read an article that described the Lunati stroker kit for
the 460.  They stroked it up to 512 cubes, and on the dyno it produced
685 lb-ft of torque (I can't remember the revs, somewhere around 4000
I think), and was pumping 825 HP at 7500 RPM and still climbing.  This
was on gasoline with dual 650 CFM 4-hole carbs.

The machine shop where I do some work, builds a lot of big block Chevys
for super modified racing, and we can't even get that when running methanol.
We would like to try a 460 in a super, but the rules only allow big block
Chevys, nothing else.  We have built a few for boat racing, and they
seem to work quite well.  It is relatively easy to get the big torque
and HP numbers because you are working with so many cubic inches.

The oil pump on the 460 is located in the front.  If you need a
rear sump pan, you can get them.  It has a small hump in the front to
clear the pump, and a longer pickup tube that goes to the back.

>The parts to build a 460 seem to be about 30 to 50% more expensive than a
>comparable Chevy.  Is it because they are less common?   Or, are Ford 460s not
>the ideal basis to build a monster out of.

Due to the success of the 460 over the past few years in boats, pro stock
drags, and off roads, there is a new interest in the engine.  More and
more parts are becoming available, and the cost is coming down.  Ford will
sell you a 460 block and all of the parts capable of building a 600 cube
race engine that easily turn 1100 HP...and everything else between this
and stock engines.  Since an EFI version of the 460 is also in trucks,
if you want EFI and an intake capable of gobs of torque, it is available
in the local junk yard.

>I read all kinds of Hot Rod, Rod & Custom types of magazines, and rarely come
>accross any articles about 460s --- How come?

Because the world is Chevy-centric, seriously (I am not trying to start a
war here).  All of the engine building and test equipment, from dynos to
computer software, uses Chevy numbering and size schemes.  The engines
are easy to build, and just like you said, the parts and information are
readily available.  Of course, there are the Ford and Chrysler circles
as well (of which I am part of), that quietly (and sometimes not :-),
go about their business.

I don't know if this is true of all Hot Rodders (that these magazines
are directed at), but of the dozen or so I know around here, they are
more concerned with the body style and the detailing than they are of
the powertrain.  Basically, they want something that works and is easy
to install (and that they can get chrome headers for :-).  The big
differentiation to them is what is on top of the engine: blower, nitrous,
single or dual carbs, etc.

You just need to ask yourself if you want something different from the
other folks.  There is nothing wrong with the big block Chevy, except
that nearly everyone has them.  There is nothing wrong with the big
block Ford either, and using it would add that different personal touch
that I thought was important in the Hot Rod world.  Personally, I would do
that something different, because that is just the way I am.  I like
the challenge :-).  But, because the 460 is now becoming more popular,
I may have to start building Chrysler Hemis!

>Tom 


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 19:31:21 1993
Subject: Re: more Edlebrock surging
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6063
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Dave asked me what kind of ignition I'm running. Stock distributor with
a Stinger conversion. Bosch platnum plugs and good quality silicon wires.
Could it be the Stinger?? I would swear it carb related. What would be an
easy way to tell if I'm leaning out while running at steady state? I don't
have an O2 sensor and it is a bitch removing the plugs to read em.

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 19:35:58 1993
Subject: Re: Jacob's Ignition System 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6064
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



In response to several ignition comments:

I had the opportunity about one year ago to help test several ignition
systems with various engines on a dyno.  It seemed some magazine
wrote an article about ignitions, and many of the customers of the
machine shop came in with their favorite ignition systems and wanted
them tested.

The quick answer is that the MSD with plain old stock Ford E-coil or
GM HEI coil came out on top.

Here are the details as best I can remember.  We tested stock, Jacobs,
MSD, and this thing called "Adrenaline" (or something like that) that
some MIT buddies showed up with.  At the time, Adrenaline had the
edge because it allowed us to electronically tune the advance curve,
and it had similar characteristics to MSD.  At the time the guys were
filing for patents, so they would not tell us much about it, but it
didn't seem like anything special.  I have not heard from them lately
to test something new.

As I said, the MSD always won, and we did not see any advantage of the
"sooper dooper" coils over the ones I mentioned above.  The MSD showed
the biggest advantage with what we called inefficient chambers.  These
were usually large chambers with domed pistons.  Engines with small
chambers and flat top pistons showed very little improvement with the MSD
over a quality stock CDI system.  Now, we did not run anything over
8500 RPM, so maybe the stock coils would give up at higher RPM and the
"sooper doopers" would hang in there a little longer.

I think the hot ticket would be MSD with electronically adjustable
advance curve.  Aside from that, the only upgrade I would make is
to buy the MSD and use one of the HEI coils.  Like John said, everything
else seems like overpriced, garden variety CDI.

We occasionally throw something else on the engine when we are dyno
testing, "just to see".  If the results ever change (and they haven't yet),
I will let you know.


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 19:41:19 1993
Subject: Re:  Jacob's Ignition System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6065
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I ditto the executive summary given by JGD.  i think they are shakey on
anything other than garden variety ford or chev v-8s.  too much hype
(Car Craft seems to like them lately if that says anything.)

I ordered one for an alfa 4 cyl.  they assured me that they had one.  they sent
something for a ford v-8.  they paid for me to ship the thing back but the
replacement box just never worked.  here is the good part.  the phoneline
help people didn't have a clue as to how the box or my ignition worked.
they just sat there asking each other questions, getting a consensus on
what to tell me next, and then being puzzled when i would explain the tests
i did that indicated that their answer wouldn't fix the problem.
i do think that their coil is hotter, but then so are some of those from
J.C. Whitney.

tom muscarello
muscarel@bert.eecs.uic.edu
csctjm@hawk.depaul.edu

----------
Posted by: Thomas Muscarello 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 18 19:46:02 1993
Subject: Re:  370-460 questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6066
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Just some random thoughts.

Dave has mentioned the 366 CID limit a few times, and I wonder if anybody
ever uses the Chevy 366 as he describes.

The 366 is ( was?? ) a truck-only big block ( so I am told ) in the
same strangeness league as the 400 CID 90 deg V6.  I have a friend
that had a 366 in his steel C50 ramp truck.  He then bought a new aluminum
ramp C30 with EFI 454 and got less power and worse mileage. Hmmm.

It seems to me that you could do a great many wacked-out things with
one of these motors, like put those 4 valve heads on one, run other
standard go-fast goodies.  In such form it would likely dominate at 
tracks with a 366 CID limit.  Might be stupidly expensive, though.

Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704
     extra line in my .rsig

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 19 09:20:02 1993
Subject: RE: Edlebrock surging
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6067
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>I have an Edlebrock (Carter AFB) on a 327 with mild mods- cam, 11-1's,
>headers, 340 hp 327 intake, turbo 350, 3.73's. This problen happened with
>the 2 Holleys before it too. It starts, idles, accelerates just fine,
>but once in top gear and criusing, jeese I love cruising, the car
>seems to surge, almost a leaning out? like feeling. It is not that bad,
>but still noticeable. The second I open the throttle a little, it goes
>away. Is there a possible jet/power rod change in my future??

Has someone mentioned vacumm advance yet?  I'd try cruising without it to see if 
that cures it.  Just plug the line temporarily and take it for a spin.  Perhaps 
you have too much total advance...

Dirk



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 19 09:25:47 1993
Subject: AVGas??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6068
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone know of problems with using AVGas (110 octane Low Lead
aviation fuel) in an old Ford 351W?  I tried running some last week and
the engine started running terrible.  I used a 50-50 mix with that and
SuperUnleaded.  It ran well for a while, but after a couple days it was
running terrible.  I cleaned up the carb and it is running better now.. 
It could have been totally coincidental, but I thought I would ask...

Thanks,
robert


----------
Posted by: Robert 'Jenman' Jensen 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 19 09:31:04 1993
Subject: adrenyle(sp?) ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6069
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	I've heard that some of the Nascar folks are use adrylines
box because even with a backup the MSD's aren't relable enough.
Suposedly the adrenyles use better quality compnents (aircraft grade)
I'm sure the folks at racers wholesale call tell you more because I think 
they're selling them.

        Henry Sommer               Mechanical Engineering student
        gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu   Goergia Institute of Technology     

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 19 09:38:06 1993
Subject: Re:  370-460 questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6070
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Dave has mentioned the 366 CID limit a few times, and I wonder if
-> anybody ever uses the Chevy 366 as he describes.

 Dave seems to have a fixation on the 366 Chevy and 370 Ford, and that's
a fact.


-> The 366 is ( was?? ) a truck-only big block ( so I am told ) in the
-> same strangeness league as the 400 CID 90 deg V6.

 The 366 is a *high-deck* block, like the high-deck truck 427, according
to a friend who has worked on them.  Since he currently has my only
reference book on the 366, I'm taking his word on it.

 Now, imagine what kind of rods you could stuff into something like
that...


-> It seems to me that you could do a great many wacked-out things with
-> one of these motors, like put those 4 valve heads on one, run other
-> standard go-fast goodies.  In such form it would likely dominate at
-> tracks with a 366 CID limit.  Might be stupidly expensive, though.

 I've never seen any dyno runs showing the Arao or Barnes 4-valve
conversions as being any better than the stockers or new aftermarket
heads.  Personally, for a 366, I'd run the standard round-port closed
chamber heads.  Most of the aftermarket heads seem to be slanted toward
600 inch IHRA and boat motors.


 Some tracks have a 406 inch limit, to let the small block 400s run.
Now *there* is where the 402 Chevy big block could find fame and
fortune, rules permitting...
                                                                                                      
----
The Courts of Chaos (501)985-0059  Free Usenet Access

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 19 09:43:40 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6071
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>[...S-10 w/ 2.8 V6...]
>
>  Any clever options for this motor?  My inclination (which places easy
>Cubic Inch Displacement increase above all other mods) is to track down
>a later EFI 4.6 V6 and drop it in.  I know the newer electronics are a
>must, but are there any other pitfalls to worry about, i.e. exhaust.
>Since the 4.6 was dropped in model year '85, I don't imagine the swap
>would be that big a deal.

	First, it's a 4.3 V6.  Second, while the 2.8 uses the Chevy bolt
pattern for the bellhousing, the 4.3 uses the BOP bolt pattern, so you need
either a new tranny or an adaptor plate.  Considering that the B-W T5 is a
wimp of a tranny, you may want a new tranny anyway, although a bone stock
4.3 should not be able to break a T5, which is rated at about 305 lb-ft.

>  Anybody done it?

	I haven't (my '92 is still under warranty), but there are 350 adaptor
kits involved, and one sick soul stuffed a 454 in there!

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 07:40:44 1993
Subject: RE: AVGas??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6072
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Does anyone know of problems with using AVGas (110 octane Low Lead
>aviation fuel) in an old Ford 351W?  I tried running some last week and
>the engine started running terrible.  I used a 50-50 mix with that and
>SuperUnleaded.  It ran well for a while, but after a couple days it was
>running terrible.  I cleaned up the carb and it is running better now.. 
>It could have been totally coincidental, but I thought I would ask...

Something to check.  Many places won't sell you AV gas unless you bring a 
separate gas container (different taxes for gas sold for road use and 
probably some EPA stuff to).  If this is the case and you used an old can 
with rust / bugs or something at the bottom you may have contaminated the 
mixture....

When you say "cleaned up the carb" what did you do?

Friend of mine used automotive gas in his airplane...  Grumman American with 
a special license to use 87 octain car stuff up to 18,000ft.  I think it was 
a low horsepower engine that allowed this.  Any-way seems that the fuel was 
contaminated (yes he used 5-gallon jugs 5 at a time in the back of his van).  
Seems a bug or worm got into his fuel line.  Seems the fuel line T's on its 
way to the carb/fuel injector (whatever).  Seems that the line from the T is 
smaller than the line from either of the tanks.  So the bug/worm effectively 
clogged both fuel lines.  He was at 2000ft (well he normally cruises at 2000 
- I'm guessing he was at the same altitude).  He managed to get the plane 
down and dodge the parked cars - cept that last tree.  He's OK (two broken 
ankles) and the plane is a write-off.  I've always considered him a safe and 
qualified pilot (um-teen Khrs and still uses a check-list) and from what the 
FAA said it was a miracle that he landed as well as he did - in the dense 
Washington - Baltimore suburbs.  I bet the next time he strains the gas...

Dirk




----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 07:48:55 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6073
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> First, it's a 4.3 V6.  Second, while the 2.8 uses the Chevy bolt
-> pattern for the bellhousing, the 4.3 uses the BOP bolt pattern, so
-> you need either a new tranny or an adaptor plate.

 Sorry, Chris.  The 4.3 has the standard Chevy bolt pattern, and the 2.8
is weird-Alice.  Not only that, but there are at least two different 2.8
bolt patterns.  Chevy's getting to be as bad as Ford about that.


-> either a new tranny or an adaptor plate.  Considering that the B-W T5
-> is a wimp of a tranny, you may want a new tranny anyway,

 The one in the S-10 has a 4.03 first gear, which would be fantastic,
except it's the weakest of the whole T-5 family (torque rating is
directly proportional to first gear reduction).  It's limited to
something like 210 ft-lb according to BW.

 We got a bunch of info from Borg/Warner some years ago.  Part of it was
a part number, gear ratios, and other specs for the T-5 for the Chevy
Chevette.  To the best of my knowledge, there never was a T-5 in the
Chevette.  And my '75 Monza owner's manual shows one engine option as a
260 Olds Diesel and T-5 manual, which would have been heavily weird,
assuming there ever was such a thing.

 Read your owner's manuals!  Sometimes there's some interesting stuff in
there, besides "How to Fasten Seatbelts"  and "Do Not Eat Tires or
Battery."

 All he'd need is a Chevy 90 deg V6 or V8 bellhousing; the S-10 5-speed
will bolt up.  Mustang and Nissan T-5s have different bolt patterns, and
the Camaro boxes are twisted to the left to move the shifter closer to
the driver.


-> wimp of a tranny, you may want a new tranny anyway, although a bone
-> stock 4.3 should not be able to break a T5, which is rated at about
-> 305 lb-ft.

 That's only the third-generation, close-ratio box in the Mustang GT and
Camaro.
                                                
----
The Courts of Chaos (501)985-0059  Free Usenet Access

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 08:06:42 1993
Subject: '65 Plymouth Barracuda hubcaps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6074
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Relay-Version: VMS News - V6.1 24/02/92 VAX/VMS V5.5-2; site dragon.com
Path: dragon!nanovx!wa4mei!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!charnel!rat!usc!sdd.hp.com!
 col.hp.com!news.dtc.hp.com!hpscit.sc.hp.com!cupnews0.cup.hp.com!jes
Newsgroups: rec.autos.antique,alt.autos.antique,alt.autos.rod-n-custom,rec.autos.rod-n-custom,alt.hotrod
Subject: '65 Plymouth Barracuda hubcaps
Message-ID: 
From: jes@rx7.ptp.hp.com (Johann Schubert)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1993 18:20:23 GMT
Sender: news@cupnews0.cup.hp.com (News Admin)
Organization: Hewlett-Packard
Nntp-Posting-Host: hpamsh4.ptp.hp.com
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL0.11]
Lines: 15

2 factory hubcaps for '65 Plymouth Barracuda.

$40.

(408) 865-0428
--

******************************************************************************
*   Johann Schubert; Hewlett Packard, ISD   |  The opinions contained herein *
*                   Sunnyvale, California   |  are my own, because nobody    *
*   INTERNET:   jes@rx7.ptp.hp.com          |  else wants them...            *
*   CompuServe: >INTERNET:jes@rx7.ptp.hp.com|                                *
*   Packet:     KC6OVN@N0ARY                | "Ban low performance drivers,  *
*                                           |  not high performance cars."   *
******************************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!dragon.com!newsmgr
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 08:30:27 1993
Subject: Re: O2 sensors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6075
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <95syrs=@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>
>In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>
> 
>I've got a drawer full of Bosch part number 258 104 002. They are commonly
>referred to as the Bosch LSM-11 and are designed for use with lean burn engines.
>They act like a normal switching type ego sensor with an extension of the lean
>side of the curve. Bosch themselves claim performance up to ~lambda=1.2. It is
>not a UEGO sensor by any stretch.
>
>The Honda sensor is inddeed in the VX models of the Honda Civic with the lean
>burn engine although the interface electronics are within the ECU. I have 
>managed to scrounge some info from NTK on what the interface does but not
>exactly what it looks like electrically. I posted the part number of the
>Honda sensor a few months back. You might check the archives. All my info is
>in boxes sitting in my new place in TN. 
>
>Jeff Armfield
>armfield@mn.ecn.purdue.edu
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!ctccummins.cummins.com!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)

I don't know what a UEGO is.  I thoght it was a linearized output from
a wide range "normal" O2 sensor.

Here is some stuff from the spec for the LSM11 (Bosch doc # Y 258 K02 078):

The written specification on page 2 is for "lambda control range 1.0 to
1.5", so you can go out beyond 1.2 but that may not be of much interest
to alt.hotrod.

However, the graphs cover both the rich and lean side.

The graph titled "Wide band Lambda characteristic of Nernst type oxygen
sensor LSM11" shows lambda .75 to lambda 1.65, with .75 to 1.0 labeled
"rich control", around 1.0 as "stoich" and out to 1.65 labeled "lean
control".

The "rich control" region shows three curves for exhaust temperatures
800, 600 and 400 degrees C, and is sub labeled "Electronic
linearization lambda-calculation measuring U(sub s) and R (sub 1)"
which means you have to measure both the O2 voltage and the exhaust
temperature to fit the lambda.  The voltage range in the rich
region from .75 to right before "the big drop" around stoichiometric
is one millivolt for the highest temp, and more for lower temps.

A FAX from Bosch while chosing this part includes (I'm paraphrasing)
"Note that the rich measurements are extremeley dependent on the
exhaust gas temperature", at least implying you can use that part of
the curve if you fit it properly.

A couple of questions:

How does this differ from a real UEGO sensor?  Are they temperature
independent or more linear?

My own take on the written "lambda control 1.0 to 1.5" specification is
that it may be for replacement part reasons, that is, the rich region
is allowed to be different in future compatable parts.  Would anyone
guess otherwise?

Peter
-- 
Peter Dufault               Real Time Machine Control and Simulation
HD Associates               Voice: 508 433 6936
hd@world.std.com            Fax:   508 433 5267
Looking for: Orangey-brown front leather seats or NOS covers for '73 BMW 3.0cs

----------
Posted by: emory!world.std.com!hd (HD Associates)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 08:32:54 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6076
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: 
Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1993 11:57:35 GMT
Lines: 16

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>  Though I now have two early Mustangs waiting for a new garage and my
>loving touch, I've been thinking about something to do with my daily
>driver:  an '84 S-10 w/2.8l V6 (carbureted).  It's a dog, partially
>because it's getting a bit worn, but mostly because the stock 2.8 is a
>toad.

Well, I saw an article a while back about a guy that dropped a 454 Chevy
in his S-10.  I guess that it bolts right in! (Yeah, right!  As if!) :-)

--
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 08:36:15 1993
Subject: S-10 alternatives
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6077
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


  The Powdered Toast Man writes:

> ... I've been thinking about something to do with my daily driver:  an '84
> S-10 w/2.8 V6 (carbureted).  It's a dog, partially because it's getting a
> bit worn, but mostly because the stock 2.8 is a toad.

>  Any clever options for this motor?  My inclination (which places easy
> Cubic Inch Displacement increase above all other mods) is to track down
> a later EFI 4.6 V6 and drop it in.  I know the newer electronics are a
> must, but are there any other pitfalls to worry about, i.e. exhaust.
> Since the 4.6 was dropped in model year '85, I don't imagine the swap
> would be that big a deal.

  I've got a 3.1 liter 60 degree V-6 in my 90 Lumina daily driven street car 
that is great. It has excellent performance (mostly due to comp. and PFI), and
outstanding fuel mileage (32-34 Highway). This engine comes in the Lumina,
Grand Prix, Cutlass, Grand Am, Cavalier, Camaro and Firebird, and some GM
front wheel drive vans. The 60 degree 3.4 has higher horsepower and overhead
cams. The 3.4 comes in the Lumina Z-34, Olds Cutlass and Grand Prix although
I'm not sure of their body designations. I understand that it also comes 
standard in the fourth generation Camaro and Firebird (I haven't seen it in 
these myself).

  The 4.3 liter 90 degree V-6 is another excellent alternative. These are
still being manufactured and placed in 1500 series full size truck as the base
engine and as an option on the S-10. Two guys that work with me both have
S-10s with the 4.3 and they think they are great. For a little more
excitement, try finding a 4.3 V-6 out of the S-10 Cyclone.... WOW.....Talk
about a wolf in sheeps clothing.

I've never heard of GM making a 4.6 liter V-6. Is this the correct 
designation? If so, I would be interested in knowing what vehicle(s) these
were placed in.

Good Luck in making a decision.

Roger Hensley, Patriot Motorsports

----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 08:44:15 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6078
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The Vortec in the trucks is the Chevy V-6 punched out, no? I'd think the
Chevy 90-degree 6 would have the Chevy bolt pattern, given that about every
other component except cam, crank, intake and exhaust interchange with SB
V-8s.

 The wide 6 isn't going to be much easier to stuff in than a SBC. You gain
a couple of inches longitudinally, maybe requiring a pusher fan or at least
a shorty. 

 At least the Vortec would have OEM fittings available for the installation.
Getting headers for a V-8 might be expensive (i.e. custom). 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 08:46:34 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6079
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Since the 4.6 was dropped in model year '85, I don't imagine the swap
>would be that big a deal.

  Um, what I MEANT to say was that the 4.6l V6 was introduced into the
S-10/S-15 model line starting model year '85.  So there shouldn't be any
physical problem with this engine.

  Ron "Open Mouth, Insert Foot" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 08:53:07 1993
Subject: Re: Jacob's Ignition System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6080
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>Has anyone had any experience with a Jacob's Energy Team ignition system?
	[...]
>[Executive summary:  Overpriced, grossly over-hyped, garden-variety CDI 
>ignition that does nothing extraordinary and brings to the table all the 
>problems associated with single spark CDI.  This is an FAQ (if 
>we actually had an FAQ) so see the archives for details.  If you don't
>want to go the cost of an MSD system, a high output coil (Accel, Mallory,
>etc) with a high capacity OEM-style electronic box works very well
>and is MUCH cheaper.  I've found that the stock Chrysler box that
>can be had at Walmart for $16 is just fine for up to about 6000 RPM on
>a V-8.  JGD]
>----------
>Posted by: emory!ccsua.ctstateu.edu!parys

	The one vendor I personally am familiar with who sells Jacobs
systems is Korman AutoWorks, Greensboro, NC.  Ray Korman's catalog has a
full page dedicated to hyping the Jacobs for BMWs (KAW specialty).  By
the looks of their own literature, they dyno-test everything they sell,
and have glowing reports of Jacobs' stuff.   So what gives?

	Of course, KAW is heavy into the profit margin, so maybe he gets
a better markup...                       


				t.v.

--
****************************************************************************
*  "Will work for beer."     Thi VanAusdal      EE USC, Columbia,SC        *
****************************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!usceast.cs.scarolina.edu!ece.scarolina.edu!ausdal (Thi Van Ausdal)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 09:01:08 1993
Subject: Re: adrenyle(sp?) ignition 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6081
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Wed, 18 Aug 93 23:18 EDT
> From:  Henry Sommer
> 
>
>	I've heard that some of the Nascar folks are use adrylines
>box because even with a backup the MSD's aren't relable enough.
>Suposedly the adrenyles use better quality compnents (aircraft grade)
>I'm sure the folks at racers wholesale call tell you more because I think 
>they're selling them.

We don't use Adrenalines (I guess I should look up the correct
spelling) because they are not NASCAR legal, and their performance
was not any better in the couple of prototypes we tested that our
trusted MSD set up.  A couple of people the shop is building
engines for (not NASCAR) are anxious to try them again, so I will
hopefully have some new data points soon.
In our American/Canadian car, we can use this kind of technology, and
I am building an HC11 controller that takes the magnetic pickup
input and adjusts it to get the programmed timing advance which is
then fed into the MSD.  The reliability is certainly an issue with
the HC11 controller.  I am designing it to be quickly switched out
to fall back to the MSD in the case of failure.  It is much better to
finish the last three laps of the race rather than coast to a stop.

Yet another data point -

All of our race cars run MSD, and we have a backup box in all of
the cars.  I have not seen one fail, but it may be due to the mounting.
We mount them on rubber isolators inside the passenger compartment,
in an air flow to keep them as cool as possible.  When all of the
cars are damn near identical, it is a little thing like this that
makes the difference.

>        Henry Sommer               Mechanical Engineering student
>        gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu   Goergia Institute of Technology     


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 09:07:26 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6082
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have a 4 wheel drive Jimmy that has a transplanted 305 H.O. from an IROC 
stuffed under the hood. the 305 actually fits pretty easily into a 2 wheel drive
vehicle so I've been told.. ( the 454's fit, but plug changes look like a nightmare ). 

The 4 wheel drive models need a modified oil pan, modified motor mounts, and custom
exhaust. You also want to adapt a th350 tranny to the transfer case. Oh yeah-- A 
sledgehammer is also required to move the firewall back ~2" to clear the HEI distributor
and make the trans tunnel a little higher (~1") where the motor and tranny bolt together. 
(would have done it neater for the distributor, if it wasn't 3 A.m. and that was all that
was holding us back from firing it.. You can't really notice the dent anyway. The dist. is
in the way... :-)

There is a kit from trans-dapt to "bolt-in" a small-block into a 4 wheel drive
Jimmy or pick-um-up truck. Cost is  $600.00. 

I bought the tailstock and output shaft from them ($150.00) and modified my own 
oil pan, motor mounts, and exhaust.

I'd recommend the swap for anyone with the 2.8 v-6. That motor does suck...

P.S. Keep the 2.8 emblems on-- Makes people wonder what it REALLY has...


-dan a.
dhoward@sw.stratus.com
 



----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 09:10:01 1993
Subject: Re: AVGas??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6083
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article <5_ty_fj@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> Does anyone know of problems with using AVGas (110 octane Low Lead
> aviation fuel) in an old Ford 351W?  I tried running some last week and
> the engine started running terrible.  I used a 50-50 mix with that and
> SuperUnleaded.  It ran well for a while, but after a couple days it was
> running terrible.  I cleaned up the carb and it is running better now.. 
> It could have been totally coincidental, but I thought I would ask...
> 

I've used it too, in a Ford 302, but I run about a 25/75 mix (25 AVGas).
My truck runs fine but I think it has damaged my CAT.  I didn't know
there was lead in it (at the time), the people at the pump couldn't tell
me if there was lead in it, the pump didn't have any label about lead.

Does anyone know if AVGas will destroy my CATs (I have dual exhaust now)?


   _/_/_/_/  _/     _/    _/       _/        Rick Colombo colombo@fnal.gov
  _/        _/_/   _/   _/ _/     _/        Fermi National Accelerator Lab
 _/_/_/    _/  _/ _/  _/_/_/_/   _/        Of course I speak for: Fermilab,
_/        _/     _/  _/     _/  _/_/_/_/  Congress and the President...NOT!

----------
Posted by: emory!dcd00.fnal.gov!colombo (Rick Colombo)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 09:17:32 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-31*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6084
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

This Week In NASCAR, Speedway (L)     8/19    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
SCCA, TORONTO (T)                     8/21     6:00-7:00AM      ESPN
World Of Speed & Beauty (Brian Carson)8/21     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (security tips)    8/21     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Wild About Wheels                     8/21     2:00-2:30PM      DISC
Truckin' USA (GMC's truck plant)      8/21     2:00-2:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              8/21     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      8/21     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MILWAUKEE (T)               8/21     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
IOGP POWERBOATS, AUGUSTA (T)          8/21     5:00-5:30PM      TNN
SpeedWeek                             8/21     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
USAC MIDGETS (& FASTMASTERS?), INDY(L)8/21     8:00-11:00PM     ESPN
IMSA, EXXON SUPREME SERIES,PORTLAND(T)8/22     12:00-1:00AM     ESPN
NHRA NATIONALS, SONOMA (T)            8/22     1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             8/22     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             8/22     3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
USAC MIDGETS (& FASTMASTERS?), INDY(T)8/22     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
1993 IndyCar Midseason Review         8/22     6:00-6:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          8/22     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
ASA, ANDERSON 400 (T)                 8/22    9:30AM-12:00PM    HTS*
Trucks & Tractor Power                8/22     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Bill Elliott)                8/22     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              8/22     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      8/22     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           8/22    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
BRIDGESTONE SUPERCAR, PORTLAND (T)    8/22     12:30-1:00PM     ESPN
BUSCH GN, LOUDON (L)                  8/22     1:00-4:00PM      TNN
NHRA, NORTHWEST NATIONALS, SEATTLE (T)8/22     1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
INDYCAR, ROAD AMERICA (L)             8/22     2:00-4:30PM   ESPN,TSN
Shadetree Mechanic (security tips)    8/22     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update w/Pat Patterson (L)    8/22     6:00-6:05PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              8/22     7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      8/22     8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           8/22     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine w/ Don Garlits     8/22     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
INDYCAR, ROAD AMERICA (SD)            8/22    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/22    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA                          8/23     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (Brian Carson)8/23     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
NASCAR Tire Test (@Indy?)             8/23     1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (Winston Cup @ MIS)    8/23     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
INDYCAR, ROAD AMERICA (T)             8/23     1:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (F1 @ Budapest)        8/23     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
SODA OFF-ROAD RACING, DE PERE (T)     8/24     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/24     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
1993 IndyCar Midseason Review         8/24     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/25     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
SCCA, LIME ROCK (T)                   8/26     12:00-1:00AM     ESPN
USAC MIDGETS, MILWAUKEE (T)           8/26     1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/26     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
NHRA, NORTHWEST NATIONALS, SEATTLE (T)8/26     3:30-4:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/26     3:30-4:00AM      MTV
IHRA, SUMMER NATIONALS, ATCO (T)      8/26     4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
NHRA, NORTHWEST NATIONALS, SEATTLE (T)8/26     7:30-8:30PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (MB 600SL & Citroen XM) 8/26     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           8/26     8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     8/26     9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                8/26     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR (L)               8/26    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
WORLD MOTORCYCLE GP, BRNO (T)         8/27     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/27     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             8/27     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
IHRA, SUMMER NATIONALS, ATCO (T)      8/27     3:30-4:30AM      ESPN
Movie: The Big Wheel                  8/27     9:00-11:00AM     A&E
OLDS RACING SERIES, DES MOINES (T)    8/27     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, BRISTOL (L)                 8/27     7:30-9:30PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Road America8/27     9:30-10:00PM     ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

HYDROPLANE RACING, SEATTLE (T)        8/28     12:00-1:00PM     ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, LIME ROCK (T)          8/28     1:00PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, BRISTOL (T)                 8/28     4:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, BRISTOL (L)              8/28     7:30PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SPA, BELGIUM (L)           8/29     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
NHRA NATIONALS, BRAINERD (T)          8/29     1:00PM           ESPN
ASA, I-70 SPEEDWAY, ODESSA, MO (L)    8/29     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, VANCOUVER (L)                8/29     4:00-6:00PM    ESPN,CBC
FORMULA 1, SPA, BELGIUM (SD)          8/29    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, VANCOUVER (T)             8/30     5:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, VANCOUVER (T)                8/30     9:00-11:00PM     ESPN
IHRA NATIONALS, SCRIBNER (T)          8/31     12:30AM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, DARLINGTON (SD)             9/4      4:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DARLINGTON (L)           9/5      1:00PM           ESPN
IHRA NATIONALS, NORWALK (T)           9/5      5:00PM           ESPN
IMSA, SAN DIEGO (?)                   9/5      (Event canceled)
BUSCH GN, RICHMOND (?)                9/10     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (L)             9/11     1:00PM           TBS
FORMULA 1, MONZA, ITALY (L)           9/12     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (L)                 9/12     1:00-3:30PM      ESPN
ASA, MADISON INTERNATIONAL SPEEDWAY(L)9/12     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (SD)                9/12     5:00PM           TSN
F1, MONZA OR INDYCAR, M-OHIO (SD)     9/12    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, MID-OHIO (T)              9/13     7:30PM           TSN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (?)                   9/18     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                9/19     12:00PM          TNN
IMSA GTP, PONTIAC (L)                 9/19     1:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, NAZARETH (T)              9/19     5:00PM           TSN
INDYCAR, NAZARETH (T)                 9/20     9:00-11:00PM  ESPN,TSN
SCCA TRANS-AM, WATKINS GLEN (T)       9/22     12:30AM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (L)      9/26     8:50-11:00AM     TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, MARTINSVILLE (L)         9/26     12:40PM          ESPN
NASCAR LATE MODEL, MARTINSVILLE (T)   9/26     9:30PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (SD)     9/26    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (T)      9/27     9:00-11:00PM     ESPN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out RDS which broadcasts each race live. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim 
Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     ASN                Arizona                         Ben Loosli
     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 18:48:22 1993
Subject: Re: AVGas??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6085
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <5_ty_fj@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>Does anyone know of problems with using AVGas (110 octane Low Lead
>aviation fuel) in an old Ford 351W?  I tried running some last week and
>the engine started running terrible.  I used a 50-50 mix with that and
>SuperUnleaded.  It ran well for a while, but after a couple days it was
>running terrible.  I cleaned up the carb and it is running better now.. 
>It could have been totally coincidental, but I thought I would ask...
>
>Thanks,
>robert
>
>
>----------
>Posted by: Robert 'Jenman' Jensen 

    1. I understand the octane numbers for AVgas were 87/100LL/130??

    2. I think the "lead " content of 100LL AVgas is about 4 times
       the "lead" on leaded mogas.

    3. Won't the mix of leaded into SuperUn substantialy increase
       the octane numbers?

    4, I don't have any real help ideas but maybe the info is usable

  

 

----------
Posted by: emory!mvubr.att.com!mvkrg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 19:00:29 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6086
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Rader blows it in public, twice:

>>Since the 4.6 was dropped in model year '85

>  Um, what I MEANT to say was that the 4.6l V6 was introduced

  Duh, what I REALLY MEANT to say was that the _4.3l_ V6 (is that a 60
or 90 deg V?) was put into the S-10 line starting '85.  Don't ask me where
I came up with 4.6.

  Thanks for all the info, folks.  Now I'm worried about the funky bolt
patterns Chevy seems to be adopting.

  Assuming I find a suitably-priced 4.3 with electronics (just the ECM,
right?), what will I have to do to use the stock T-5 manual?  I don't
particularly want to replace the tranny unless absolutely necessary,
and I didn't think the 4.3 was all that much more of a gear stripper.

  Maybe I'll just wait for the PE $300 DIY EFI and rebuild my 2.8! ;)

  Ron "Slow Truck" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 19:13:58 1993
Subject: New cam
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6087
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi,

Some of you might remember my posts about finding the right high
performance cam for my '75 camaro. 

Well, now I bought it. And reading the instructions makes me puzzled...
the advise *against* using synthetic oil. Especially during break-in.

What could be the cause for this?

Another question, do I have to change my oil and filter when installing
the cam and the again after the cam is run in, or can I use my old
oil during break-in and just change it afterwards?

/ Markus

PS the cam is a Summit grind. dur 272/282 int/exh (214/224 @ .050) and
   .442/.462 lift. 

----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 19:29:11 1993
Subject: Re: AVGas??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6088
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



On Fri, 20 Aug 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> I've used it too, in a Ford 302, but I run about a 25/75 mix (25 AVGas).
> My truck runs fine but I think it has damaged my CAT.  I didn't know
> there was lead in it (at the time), the people at the pump couldn't tell
> me if there was lead in it, the pump didn't have any label about lead.
> 
> Does anyone know if AVGas will destroy my CATs (I have dual exhaust now)?
> 
Yes, AVgas will destroy your CATs.  The lead in AVgas (while considered
low for aviation terms) is 4 times that of automotive leaded gas...Pretty
wicked stuff for CATs.

robert


----------
Posted by: Robert 'Jenman' Jensen 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 19:36:48 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6089
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <4gvyp4@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>
>-> First, it's a 4.3 V6.  Second, while the 2.8 uses the Chevy bolt
>-> pattern for the bellhousing, the 4.3 uses the BOP bolt pattern, so
>-> you need either a new tranny or an adaptor plate.
>
>[...much going on in which Dave Williams corrects me...]

	Thanks, Dave.  I knew it was one or the other of the 2.8 or 4.3 that
had the weirdo bolt pattern.

	I knew someone would correct me if I was wrong!

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 19:41:24 1993
Subject: T5 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6090
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi ya all..   I am building an 84 Firebird that came stock with a 6 (2.8).  I
am going to be putting in a relitivity mild 350.  What I want to know (and the
GM boys don't seem to know) is will the stock T5 2.8 trany hold it?  I went to
the GM books and the 8 cil and 6 cil ones are different...but they don't give
ratios...just tell me they have different spline etc.  Any info would be
greatly appreacted. :)
Thanks
Rob

----------
Posted by: emory!LINDEN.MSVU.CA!RRAY (Robert Ray)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 20 19:45:28 1993
Subject: programmable electronic ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6091
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hello,
	I'm aware of an electronic ignition for duel fuel
(propane/gasoline) conversions.  It has a switch which selects two
different spark advance curves (necessary because propane needs less
total spark advance than gasoline).
	So I'm wondering if anyone makes an electronic ignition with a totally
programmable spark advance curve.  Perhaps it would have a vacuum line
to the carburetor spark advance port so that the computer would know
what the vacuum was at any point in time.  Or perhaps it would use the
distributor vacuum spark advance and add an electronic version of mechanical
advance to that.
	Anyone heard of such a beast?  How much?
tom root

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Aug 21 07:00:42 1993
Subject: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6092
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Are all run-of-the-mill 350 Chevy rods about the same?

I have the "Pink Rods" in my '70 Corvette 350, so I know about those, but are
all the others roughly the same?

I'm going to be re-rebuilding my '69 Camaro's 350 because of a cracked
harmonic balancer which destroyed the snout of my crank.   When I built the
engine about six months ago, I had the stock rods resized and magnafluxed. 
One of the rods had been hammered into an egg shape at the big end and was
un-resizeable.  The machinist GAVE me one he had laying around which he also
resized.  He said he weighed it and it was about equal to the ones which were
okay.  The one he gave me was a bright silvery color, while the seven
original rods were a sort of golden brown color (after cleaning).  It looked
like a completely different casting.  

So, since I got it free, I figured that since it weighed the same it should
work okay.  I've always wondered though -- is that one an inferior one to the
old ones?  Will it throw the balance off significantly just because it may
have a slightly different balance big end to small end?  

Since I'm going to tear the engine apart again, I'm wondering if I should
scrounge up a set of "pink-rods" or at least get a set of eight ordinary rods
which match.

I'm also wondering if I should balance the rods and crank.  

I will probably never get over 5500 rpm, but I drive with a heavy foot --
pulling onto freeways with gusto.  The Camaro's my daily driver, and I want
it to be fast AND reliable.   

Any comments would be appreciated.

Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Aug 21 07:04:56 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy S-10 Possibilities
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6093
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->      Thanks, Dave.  I knew it was one or the other of the 2.8 or 4.3
-> that had the weirdo bolt pattern.

 De nada.  Now if only anyone knew which versions of the 2.8/3.1/3.4
Chevy interchange with which fours, and if any will interchange with the
Buick 3.0 V6, which was a weirdball variant of the 231...
                                                                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Aug 21 07:09:18 1993
Subject: T5 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6094
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Hi ya all..   I am building an 84 Firebird that came stock with a 6
-> (2.8).  I am going to be putting in a relitivity mild 350.  What I
-> want to know (and the GM boys don't seem to know) is will the stock
-> T5 2.8 trany hold it?

 The difference between the V8 and V6 trans is in the first gear ratio,
which is established by the primary reduction off the input shaft.  The
more reduction, the weaker the box.  The V6 usually has a shorter first
than the V8.  Even the heavy-duty, second generation, close ratio late
model V8 T5 is rated at only 300 or so ft-lb of torque.  It doesn't take
much of a 350 to exceed that.

 However, that's Borg-Warner's rating, and if you don't get foolish with
it, the transmission should last OK.  Sidestepping the clutch,
downshifting from second to first and using the engine to slow down
with, or general dogging in first gear will shell the countershaft right
out.  As long as you confine your escapades to second gear or higher
you should be OK for a general to-work or street machine.  For serious
stoplight work or autocross, you need the Warner T10 or an automatic.
                                                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Aug 21 22:32:17 1993
Subject: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6095
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I have the "Pink Rods" in my '70 Corvette 350, so I know about those,
-> but are all the others roughly the same?

 There are two basic types of large journal 5.7" rods - narrow beam and
wide beam.  If you turn the rod edge-on and look at it, the wide beam is
about the same width all the way to the top.  The narrow beam rod is
*definitely* narrower.

 The narrow rods came in the 307, 305, and all late model (mid '80s up)
350s, including the LT-1.  I don't think the wide beam rod is being used
in production engines now.
                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug 22 18:43:24 1993
Subject: GN 3.8 V6
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6096
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Hello all,
	I was after some info on the Buick 3.8 V6 turbo engine.I have a Holden (our local GM subsiduary) Commodore that runs the locally produced version of the V6.Quite respectable figures - 127kW  0-100KM/h ~9secs.Not bad considering the size of the car (1400 kg) but i need more.Holden also produce  a 5 litre V8 (200 kW option - 220kW factory special vehicles division limited release) but id rather play with the 6 i have.What i require is techno details on the engine and i may consider importing a used engine t
o transplant the go faster hardware on to mine.Thanks in advance and i would really appreciate any info.


			Peter JARAMAZ s3007157@mackay.mpce.mq.edu.au

----------
Posted by: emory!titanic.mpce.mq.edu.au!s3007157
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug 22 18:47:10 1993
Subject: Modulator Valve Adjustment?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6097
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The FMX tranny in my 70' Stang doesn't seem to shift right.  The guy that 
built it said he could make it shift harder without a shift kit.  Supposedly
he was suppose to do this, but it shifted alot harder before I got it rebuilt.
If I don't really get on it, it shifts to second real soon and then on to drive
just as quickly.  Sometimes, if I don't slow down for a stop all of the way it
will only drop to second.  Can this be adjusted out?  If so could I get some
instructions?  I appreciate all info anyone can give.  Thanks.
Tom McClendon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

Oh yea, how about the B&M trick shift stuff?  

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug 22 18:51:45 1993
Subject: Re: New cam
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6098
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:


>Hi,

>Some of you might remember my posts about finding the right high
>performance cam for my '75 camaro. 

>Well, now I bought it. And reading the instructions makes me puzzled...
>the advise *against* using synthetic oil. Especially during break-in.

I hope this doesn't get turned into one of the ongoing 'what kind of
oil / slick 50 / how often change oil' threads so popular in the rec
groups, but....
My experience leads me to believe that using synthetic oil in a new
engine will have higher oil consumption, as the rings don't seat as
well.  Likewise with changing the oil sooner than the 7,500 mile
recomendations.  If you are only changing the cam I can't see why
it would make much differents.

>What could be the cause for this?

>Another question, do I have to change my oil and filter when installing
>the cam and the again after the cam is run in, or can I use my old
>oil during break-in and just change it afterwards?

You probably can use the same oil as before.  (why did you change oil
if you are going to tear the engine down?).
I wouldn't change the break-in oil sooner than I would change regular
oil anyway.  Then I'd switch to synthetic.

Mark.  Mwb@uiuc.edu

----------
Posted by: Mark Wayne Blunier 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug 22 18:55:41 1993
Subject: RE: New cam
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6099
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Well, now I bought it. And reading the instructions makes me puzzled...
>the advise *against* using synthetic oil. Especially during break-in.

>What could be the cause for this?

The fear is that since the synthetics are superior lubricants, there won't be a
"break-in".


----------
Posted by: "Mellum Ron" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 11:39:25 1993
Subject: rotary Midget
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6100
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I saw a neat one at a car show this weekend. A MG Midget with a Mazda
ratery in it. When it came in, it sounded real funny, so I went over
to have a look and behold, a carb equipped rotary. Talt about power
to weight ratio. When he left he stabbed the throttle and almost looped
it! Real cool.

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 11:46:31 1993
Subject: Mailing list for Harley's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6101
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Does anyone have the mailing list info for Harley Davidson's???

Thanks,

Ned
nwilmart@digi.lonestar.org

----------
Posted by: NED 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 11:51:05 1993
Subject: A real HOT Torino GT
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6102
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


   Help,


      I have a 1969 Torino GT with a 351 High Performance windsor motor.  The
   numbers appear to be correct and the sticker for the car states that it is
   a 351-4V ( advertised 290 HP ).  Nuff for the background stuff.

      When I acquired this care, the person I bought it from told me that it
   had a rebuilt engine.  It does run quite strong, no smoke, no noise, no
   white smoke in the morning at the first start etc. etc.  I can see new
   head gaskets at the edges.  He did tell me, however, that the car overheats
   on occasion.

      I have a new thermostat, new belts, a six blade fan, and have bypassed
   the heater with a length of hose.  The heater core leaked and I fixed the
   lower tank seem in the radiator.  When I stopped the leaks I figured that
   that I would fix the overheat.  WRONG !!!

      If I just let the car sit and idle in the driveway with the radiator cap
   I can see the thermostat open and the water circulates like crazy.  After a
   few minutes its starts to boil.  The entire radiator is hot which leads me 
   to believe that it's not plugged.  When I shut the engine off I can hear 
   the water boiling in the heads and it bubbles in the top radiator hose.

      I am about ready to pull the heads.  I believe that Ford made a change
   somewhere in the mid 70's for the steam holes.  The question,  Is this 
   characteristic of late model gaskets on an early model engine? I don't
   want to pull them If I don't need to.  

     I wanted to replace the radiator but the normal parts stores and warehouses
   can only get ones for the 302 which is smaller.  They don't list the 351, 
   390 or 428 at all.  Does anyone have a good source for radiators mail 
   order would be fine.  This is my first real performance car since the early
   70's and I am having a great deal of enjoyment driving it but I can only
   go 10 miles :-(>  .  

     When I have it down I think that I'll put a set of roller rockers in 
   for a few extra ponies.  Any recommendations of brands?  Any recommendations
   or tips about doing this, I'm not an expert on High Performance and would
   appreciate any advice.

Thanks,

 Bill


                     
                    / \
                   <   ) 
 \==================   ==================/  This is all mine, no one else's.
  \================     ================/   Bill Poudrier  Maynard MA, 01754 
                  /// \\\

----------
Posted by: emory!genrad.com!wdp (William D. Poudrier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 12:46:54 1993
Subject: Saturday 21 August...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6103
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                      Saturday 21 August...

Well, my experimental pull last Saturday was successful.  My improved hitch
(replacement horizontal member for a standard 'DrawTite' brand under-frame
receiver) worked correctly giving me the necessary vertical force component to
lift the front of the boat (aka 'sled').  In fact, I lifted it a good foot as I
started down the track.  Weight-transfer to the rear of the truck was vastly
improved -- the rear squatted *way* down.  Now, the downside -- this was not a
truly *stock* class (traction-bars, re-worked engines, high-stall torque
convertors, Detroit lockers, etc were installed in the rest of the
competition).  I pulled further than any of the other *stock* (or nearly-stock)
trucks but ended-up out of the money (223ft and a few inches).  The
organization at this event was p*ss-poor, no one, and I mean *NO ONE* at the
fairgrounds had a clue as to the location of these vital areas -- 

        1)  the *pit-area*!!!!
        2)  where to register/who to pay!!!!
        3)  how to operate the scale (to tell me *exactly* how much over 5800 I
was)
        4)  what *order* we were going to pull in (registration order? weigh-in
order?)

There were no lights in the pits, as expected, I didn't need to tinker with the
most bullet-proof stock drivetrain in a truck (Dana 60 front, NP 205 transfer
case, Getrag 360 transmission, Dana 70 rear).  I used 2nd-low (low-range,
second gear) and saw 20psi manifold pressure, so the engine *still* wasn't
seeing full load (it would've been 26psi at full, and, yes I have had 26psi on
the road, climbing hills...).

The officiating at this event left something to be desired -- the flagman had a
cat because I proceeded down the track after staring at the *unfurled* *green*
flag in his hand for 30-seconds.  He was screaming that I was disqualified
because he hadn't flagged me to start.  I rather impolitely asked him just why
the green was unfurled if I wasn't supposed to start... i.e. where the h*ll was
the *red* which should have been unfurled until the officials were ready.  My
crew was screaming at him from both sides of the track and me from inside the
truck.  I  re-pulled and he got a *red* flag the very next run so there would
be no confusion...

Walt K., preparing for the next event (mid Sept)...


----------
Posted by: "ERDR/Walt Koziarz" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 16:45:50 1993
Subject: Re:  A real HOT Torino GT
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6104
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 This sounds very similar to what happened to me the first time I tried to
soup up a car - a 289 Mustang. Bought a used 4BBL intake and carb, swapped
it on and shazam - instant overheating problem. I tried traveling in it
once and ended up stopping every 10-20 miles to get water out of the ditch.
Never figured it out since the upper A-arm broke loose of the frame shortly
after and I had to shoot it. 

 I think there's enough difference in gasketing or manifolds that something
gets blocked off if things aren't done right. Either that or I forgot to
remove the dead mouse.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 16:53:13 1993
Subject: Re: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6105
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Tom asks:
>Are all run-of-the-mill 350 Chevy rods about the same?

No.  I have seen rod hardnesses (basically, the rod strength) ranging
from 12 to 22.  Apparently the factory started using softer (cheaper)
rods when the engine outputs decreased due to emissions designs.  BTW,
rods are forged, not cast.

Regarding balancing, the rods should all be the same both at the small
end and at the big end.  Likewise, the pistons should all be the same.
As things become unequal in weight you start to get vibrations.  It
becomes a question of how much vibration you and the rest of the engine
can live with.  The conservative approach is to match the weights of
everything.  This gives longer life, less likelihood of catastrophic
failure, and a more comfortable ride.

Rods from _old_ engines (pre-72) are usually pretty strong.

Bob Hale

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 16:57:29 1993
Subject: Re: T5 question 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6106
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Sat, 21 Aug 93 01:02 EDT
> From:  Dave Williams
> 
>

> The difference between the V8 and V6 trans is in the first gear ratio,
>which is established by the primary reduction off the input shaft.  The
>more reduction, the weaker the box.  The V6 usually has a shorter first
>than the V8.  Even the heavy-duty, second generation, close ratio late
>model V8 T5 is rated at only 300 or so ft-lb of torque.  It doesn't take
>much of a 350 to exceed that.

Having been burned by T-5 swapping, here is a little more info.  The
primary reduction off the input shaft that Dave is talking about affects
all gears (except 4th, which is 1:1), so be aware of that.  Where I got
burned is that the input shafts are very slightly different.  Yes, they
have the same number of splines and input shaft diameter, but the length
of the shaft and the size of the pilot are different.  Even side by side,
with more than a quick glance, you will swear they are the same, but get
some measuring tools out and you will determine otherwise.  You just
can't swap these things to get different ratios.  For some reason,
they wanted to make sure you couldn't.

> However, that's Borg-Warner's rating, and if you don't get foolish with
>it, the transmission should last OK.  Sidestepping the clutch,
>downshifting from second to first and using the engine to slow down
>with, or general dogging in first gear will shell the countershaft right
>out.  As long as you confine your escapades to second gear or higher
>you should be OK for a general to-work or street machine.  For serious
>stoplight work or autocross, you need the Warner T10 or an automatic.
>                                                                              
                         
Someone on this list get foolish!  Naaah, never :-).


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 17:02:19 1993
Subject: Tire Sizes (G60-14)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6107
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I know how to convert from the metric sizes to width, height, and diameter
but does anybody have a formula for the older tire sizes such as 
G60-14 or L60-15. I want to match a 235/60/14 which 
is 9.25 wide 25.10 diameter and tire height of 5.55. 

But it would be nice to see how other sizes vary.


Thanks in advance.


-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
romansks@unvax.union.edu  | 
                          | 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Steve Romanski 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 19:26:40 1993
Subject: Re: Tire Sizes (G60-14) 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6108
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Let's see ... according to the catalog from Coker Tire, a G70x14 is
6.9" tread width, 8.8" section width, and 26.8" diameter. They don't
list any G60-14 (or *anything* in an L width!).

I was going to infer something clever about G meaning a particular
width and 70 being the aspect ratio, but the width associated with a
particular letter seems to vary with wheel diameter and manufacturer!
Even the G70x14 varies; the above data were for their Firestone Wide
Ovals. The Coker Classic in G70x14 is 6.75/8.45/26.75. 

But the G70 seems to be about equivalent to a 215mm section width, more or less.

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 19:30:59 1993
Subject: Re: A real HOT Torino GT
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6109
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	A real good source of radiators of any kind stock replacements 
customs, big small, and strange as hell is Ron Davis Racing Radiators I
belive he is located in Phenix Arizona.  The folks at Robinson Racing
((404) 475-3555) can give you his number.  He has a real good reputation
his prices are good and his radiators are good (if you like Al).

        Henry Sommer               Mechanical Engineering student
        gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu   Georgia Institute of Technology     

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 19:39:31 1993
Subject: Re: Mailing list for Harley's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6110
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> Does anyone have the mailing list info for Harley Davidson's???

	he request address is harley-request@thinkage.com.

	Has anyone tried the race-fab mailing list?

        Henry Sommer               Mechanical Engineering student
        gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu   Georgia Institute of Technology     

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 22:47:28 1993
Subject: RE: Tire Sizes (G60-14)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6111
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>... does anybody have a formula for the older tire sizes such as 
G60-14 or L60-15. I want to match a >235/60/14 which is 9.25 wide 25.10 
diameter and tire height of 5.55.
>romansks@unvax.union.edu

I sold tires for several years and discovered no formula...the older 
tires varied considerably, even among the same size. One "F70"  could 
be an inch taller than another brand.
In general though this is the approximate correspondance. I'd recommend 
measuring before you buy.
D	185
E	195
F	205
G	215
H	225
L	235
N	really wide




----------
Posted by: David Gonzales (General) 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 23 22:55:52 1993
Subject: Re: A real HOT Torino GT
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6112
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I've been having almost the same problem on my 70' mustang.  I too have the
351W.  Awhile back I asked about the head gaskets.  It seems that a friend
who has been building Fords for twice as long as I've been alive said that
you are supposed to alternate the head gaskets.  As in put one with the front
hole open and one with the back.  The gaskets come with "front" printed on
them so that both of the back holes are open.  This is the way I ran them and
he kept telling me it would over-heat.  Well it has never overheated, but it
got way up there.  My problem was too much advance.  You might want to check
this.  I just got finished putting in a 160 degree thermostat.  It barely gets
off of the C when I'm cruising.  Don't know how, but I hope this helps.  Later.
Tom McClendon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 24 23:43:02 1993
Subject: roe engineering
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6113
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


does anybody have a phone number for roe engineering in tempe az?
thanks,
dan stanger

----------
Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs (Dan Stanger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 24 23:51:19 1993
Subject: Re: AVGas??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6114
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Does anyone know if AVGas will destroy my CATs (I have dual exhaust now)?
>
>Posted by: emory!dcd00.fnal.gov!colombo (Rick Colombo)

yes, low-lead avgas does have lead and will destroy the cat.

TROY



----------
Posted by: EILAND 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Aug 24 23:57:22 1993
Subject: Comp T/A tire sizes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6115
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Got the info from BFG about Team T/A, which includes size data on the Comp T/A 
R-1's.  Here's what I got on the new 224 series road race compounds.  I hope 
Dave Williams can add this info to his list.  204/206 sizes to follow (someday).

All are Z rated, molded at 6/32's tread depth.

size AR  rim dia    sect.  ckrim tread rimwidths
315  35  17  25.6   12.2   11.0  11.9  10.0-12.0
255  40  17  24.9   9.8    9.0   9.2   8.0-10.0
275  40  17  25.6   10.5   9.5   10.2  8.5-11.0
245  45  16  24.5   9.2    8.0   8.9   7.5-9.5
245  45  17  25.6   9.2    8.0   8.9   7.5-9.5
205  50  15  23.0   8.0    6.5   7.3   6.0-8.0
225  50  15  23.8   8.8    7.0   8.4   6.5-9.0
245  50  15  24.6   9.6    7.5   9.2   7.0-9.5
265  50  15  25.4   10.5   8.5   10.1  7.5-10.0
225  50  16  24.8   8.8    7.0   8.4   6.5-9.0
255  50  16  26.0   10.0   8.0   9.7   7.0-10.0
205  50  17  25.0   8.0    6.5   7.3   6.0-8.0
205  55  14  22.6   8.0    5.5   7.1   6.0-8.0
205  55  16  24.8   8.0    6.5   7.3   6.0-8.0
185  60  13  21.6   7.0    5.5   6.1   5.0-7.0
205  60  13  22.6   7.8    6.0   6.8   5.5-8.0
185  60  14  22.6   7.0    5.5   6.1   5.0-7.0
195  60  14  23.1   7.5    6.0   6.5   5.0-7.5
205  60  14  23.6   7.8    6.0   6.8   5.0-8.0

------
Bryan Blackwell bryan@mitre.org (703) 883 7329

'65 Corvair, '66 E-type, '69 Road Runner
"Yeah, it's nice, but it needs a little more power"
------

----------
Posted by: "Bryan Blackwell"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 00:02:11 1993
Subject: Chevy SB gallery-plug problem :(
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6116
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    HELLO !  I met with some problems , when I tried to remove the threaded
    plugs for the main & oil-galleries at the rear of my Chevy Small-Block.
    Though I heated them with a gas-torch, after cooling down just two came
    loose.  The  third  -  and here 's the bad luck :( - got a crack in one
    corner of the original square-plug .  Finally  one edge broke out, so I
    fetched a tool to turn out the plug (don't know how it's called in your
    language). So far so good - I drilled in the suitable hole and used the
    tool to get it out --> guess what ? - the tool broke. These plugs stuck
    pretty hard in the block,eh  ?  After an hour or so I managed it to get
    out the tool, so now I'am left with a damaged,stuck plug with a hole in
    it :(

    Okay, I decided that the best way to repair this situation is to tap in
    a  new  thread . The required drill for the new thread should be bigger
    than 0.54-inch - that 's the total-diameter of the old one. I found out
    that an M16 fine-tap would fit best ( that 's a metric thread, which is
    better available to me than inch).Therefore the total-radius of the new
    thread  is 0.043-inch  bigger than the old one .I guess  that the plug-
    bosses can take this bigger hole. But before I do cause futher harm I'd
    better ask here ! So :

    - CAN THE PLUG-BOSSES TAKE A 0.043-INCH BIGGER HOLE WITHOUT DAMAGE ????

    - IS THE ORIGINAL PLUG-THREAD A UNF 9/16 ? OR IS IT AN CHEVY-SPECIFIC ?

    Any recommendations , hints  .... are welcome. Send them directly to my
    e-mail  adress  or  post them here . aaaaaaannnnnnddddd : don't laugh !
    Thanx previously,

    8<---cut here----------------------------------------------------------

                                      },,{
                    _____________ m___ OO___ m_____________
                   [___           "   (__)   "           __]
                   [_            WERNER J. KARL           _]
                   [ karl@fridolin.ngate.uni-regensburg.de ]
                   [__    bh725@cleveland.freenet.edu   ___]
                   [_______________________________________]

----------
Posted by: emory!fridolin.ngate.uni-regensburg.de!Karl (Werner J. Karl)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 00:07:31 1993
Subject: Radiators
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6117
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I'm looking for a good source for radiators. It seems that 
everyone I ask about them know nothing or has only bad 
experiance with buying a new one. So what I would like is
to find out who some of the better builders are and how to
get info on their products.

Thanks.

----------
Posted by: emory!emx.cc.utexas.edu!ccap001 (Paul Morris)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 09:33:59 1993
Subject: RE: New cam
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6118
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 

>Well, now I bought it. And reading the instructions makes me puzzled...
>the advise *against* using synthetic oil. Especially during break-in.
>
>What could be the cause for this?


Synthetics generally have lower friction (some magazines claim 10hp in a 
mustang).  The cam requires proper wearing-in between the cam and the lifters 
(you did get new lifters right?)  When they recomend running the engine up to 
2000 - 2500 rpm for 15 to 30 minutes, its to splash enough oil on the cam to help 
the wear-in process.  I don't think the break-in period has to be longer than 15 
minutes.

Dirk



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 09:39:33 1993
Subject: RE: Small-Block Chevy Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6119
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Are all run-of-the-mill 350 Chevy rods about the same?

No!  I think later rods may actually be cast iron (like Pontiac etc)

>I have the "Pink Rods" in my '70 Corvette 350, so I know about those, but are
>all the others roughly the same?

Pink rods are "select forgings" that have been heat treated and shot peened.  If 
your going the full route on connecting rods (magnaflux, shot-peened, polished 
beams, new rod bolts) it doesn't make any difference.  If the difference between 
a factory heat-treat (you can do it at home - I think 450 degress is enough) and 
not having one is going to save your motor then your pushing the con-rods too 
hard.  Time to upgrade to serious connecting rods.


>I'm going to be re-rebuilding my '69 Camaro's 350 because of a cracked
>harmonic balancer which destroyed the snout of my crank.   When I built the
>engine about six months ago, I had the stock rods resized and magnafluxed. 
>One of the rods had been hammered into an egg shape at the big end and was
>un-resizeable.  The machinist GAVE me one he had laying around which he also
>resized.  He said he weighed it and it was about equal to the ones which were
>okay.  The one he gave me was a bright silvery color, while the seven
>original rods were a sort of golden brown color (after cleaning).  It looked
>like a completely different casting.  

Since you have the whole thing apart.

1) Get the block ready (clean, align hone - on sm-chevy use torque plates and if 
your going to use studs install them, and square the decks)

2) If your going with oversize pistons - have the block bored (again with torque 
plates) and honed as per ring manufacturers specification.  Each bore should be 
matched to a particular piston (esp with forged pistons).  That means all your 
pistons are numbered.

3)  Take the pistons home and polish the sharpe edges of the valve reliefs - to 
reduce tendancy of pre-ignition.

4)  Have 'em work the connecting rods - shot-peen, new bolts, resize both ends 
etc.  Both the big end and small end should weigh the same as the other rods.

5)  Have pistons balanced - most good shops do it to .5 grams but I heard 5 grams 
is O.K.

6)  Assemble piston and rod - these are now matched and balanced sets.

7)  After you are satisified with all the above work - take it home if you want - 
have them balance the crank to your particular combo.  (this is the last step)

>Since I'm going to tear the engine apart again, I'm wondering if I should
>scrounge up a set of "pink-rods" or at least get a set of eight ordinary rods
>which match.

A good shop should be able to do a real balance job - they'll tell you up-front 
about the problems.  Seek out a place that specializes in HP work - normally 
they're a little more expensive but if they save just one of your engines its 
worth every penny!!!!!!

>I'm also wondering if I should balance the rods and crank.  

Rods/ pistons and crank are balanced as a set.  Some engines require the harmonic 
balancer and the flywheel to be balanced with the set.  Normally this is cast 
crank engines.

>I will probably never get over 5500 rpm, but I drive with a heavy foot --
>pulling onto freeways with gusto.  The Camaro's my daily driver, and I want
>it to be fast AND reliable.   

Ditto for me but some say I can be a little anal - like what do I need studs in a 
4-bolt main engine for?  (for $80 it was cheap insurance)

>Any comments would be appreciated.
>
>Tom

A good book to read is HP's on blue printing.  I'd buy it before I spent a single 
dime on machine work!!!!

Dirk


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 09:45:56 1993
Subject: Re: Harley Davidson & Racfab mailing lists.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6120
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I've been on the Harley Davidson mailing list. They discuss more trip than technical matters. I have since requested to be dropped. The race fab mailing list is a real bear to get through. I have tried numerous times and have been unsuccesful so far. If anyone else out their gets through to the racefab newsgroup. I too would be interested. Roger Hensley, Patriot Motorsports.

----------
Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 09:52:01 1993
Subject: dynamics of truck-pulling (as I currently understand)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6121
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Much of this is going to be speculation, based upon observation...  But
here're my current thoughts, views and opinions (these remain subject to
change).  Hitch-height and orientation are of utmost importance, this is
why the better-officiated events specify a maximum hitch-height (generally
26-inches) and a minimum drawbar length (specified as a percentage of
wheelbase -- mine is 47.5-inches from center of rear axle hub -- wheelbase
specified at 131-inches).  The reasons behind these rules are that the
higher the hitch, the greater the vertical component of force applied to
the chain attached to the boat (sled).  It is desirable to apply as much
vertical force as reasonable to lift the front of the boat at the start of
the run, these reduces ground-friction and lets the truck get up to speed
(speed is a relative term, 2nd-gear, low range is none too speedy).  The
chain-length at the front of the boat is fixed also...  The reason for the
minimum drawbar length is to provide leverage to pull the rear of the truck 
down, thus unloading the frontend (yes, even with 1000lbs of engine the
front springs are at near full extension).  Tire selection depends upon
track condition and is still not fully understood by me (last year I
should've had mud tires, this year well-worn all-terrains would have been
better).  Traction is obviously a major factor, but so too is the ability
of the tire to spin *without* 'hopping' and contributing to axle-wrap (when 
I feel the axle wrapping, I shut-down right there... I need the truck to
get to work...).  Where permitted, traction-bars will reduce/eliminate the
axle wrap/hop.  I do not intend to add these as drilling the frame would be 
required.  I do intend, however, to add some leaves in the rear
spring-packs and install factory rear helper springs.  the added leaves in
the rear will allow elimination of the lift-blocks between spring and axle. 
 These blocks are undesirable since they allow the axle to exert greater
leverage on the springs to initiate axle wrap.  With the low rpm torque the 
Cummins has available, all that I do is *ease* off the clutch at idle rpm
and then nail the accelerator.  This prevents/reduces initial wheelspin and 
makes for a reasonably-smooth launch.  One short-duration puff of black and 
the manifold pressure reads 20psi, tach shows 2500 and exhaust temp climbs
to 1000 F.  All within the first 50ft...  Recall that I did turn up the
pump two turns (major reason I learned to keep my foot *off* the pedal
until moving, that's part of why I excavated at the first pull this year).  
My opinion currently is that an automatic is advantageous in pulling
because of the torque convertor and its variable ratio... with a manual,
gear choice is a trade-off between sufficient topspeed availability and
sufficient initial torque application.  I used (as mentioned) 2nd-low last
Saturday, but am currently considering use of 1st-hi in the future (not
*much* difference in ratio... 1st-hi is a *little* higher...).  As long as
I keep manifold pressure at or about 20psi, I feel confident I am not
excessively stressing anything since the engine is not providing full
output until I get 26psi (or more?).  A minor side comment -- if I ever
decided to cheat (and had enough $$$$ to do so), it would be *simple*, the
oficials would have no idea they were looking at a B5.9-230 instead of a
B5.9-160... :-)

The major mystery left to me is when to call attention to rules-violations
(I got perturbed when I went over to another competitor to ask an
organizational question and he shut down his hood, as if a Diesel-driver
would be interested in stealing a gasoline "secret"... made me think he's
got something to hide...)

Rules:

1.  All drivers will have a valid (current) Operator's License.
2.  One driver per truck per class.
3.  All vehicles will have properly-installed seatbelts which driver will
use during pull.
4.  Stock class designation means no alterations.
5.  No special fuel such as NITRO OR ALCOHOL will be used in stock class
6.  Tires SHALL NOT BE equipped with studs, chains, duals, lugs as tractor
lugs and no cut or grooved treads in stock class.
7.  All hitches will inspected at weigh-in and judge shall the right to
disqualify any vehicle with unsafe hitch.
8.  All hitches must be a maximum of 26" above ground.  Drawbar length is a 
minimum of 36% of wheelbase measured from center of rear wheel to point of
hook.
9.  Driveshaft loops mandatory on all modified classes.
10. No snow-plow blades allowed.  Snowplow frames acceptable.
11. Standard clevis and pin must be furnished with vehicle at time of
weigh-in
12. All added weights to meet class requirements must be securely fastened
and BAGGED SAND is preferred.  Weights on front of vehicle must be securely 
fastened to truck and must not extend  forward more than sixty (60) inches
from center line of front wheels.
13. In pulling, chain must be kept tight and NO JERKING ALLOWED.  No cables 
allowed.
14. In pulling, vehicles with standard transmissions may *NOT* be shifted.
15. NO ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES WILL BE ALLOWED AT WEIGH-IN, ON THE TRACK, OR BY 
ANYONE IN THE INFIELD AREA OF TRACK.

16. After each pull, trucks MUST RETURN to weigh station.
17. AT CONCLUSION OF THE EVENT ALL VEHICLES MUST BE REMOVED FROM THE TRACK
AND PARKED IN DESIGNATED AREA ONLY.
18. ALL DRIVERS MUST ATTEND MEETING BEFORE PULL.
19. DECISIONS BY JUDGES ARE FINAL.
20. Truck and sled must remain within course boundaries during pull.
21. No portion of truck shall interfere with sled during pull.
22. MUST PULL A MINIMUM OF TEN (10) FEET TO QUALIFY FOR PRIZE MONEY.
23. Number one puller will be test puller and may take pull if weight
transfer is deemed right, or he may immediately take his second pull, or he 
may pull in sixth position.  Sixth position is defined as the position
immediately following the next five (5) scheduled competitors and their
attempts.  If weight transfer needs further adjustment, the first puller
after each adjustment will be treated as the number one (or test) puller.
24. Equipped with min. 2.5lb dry chemical fire extiguisher.
25. Street Modified classes may run stock factory engine.
26. Street Modified may run intake manifold.  No more than one 4-barrel
carburetor.
27. Street Modified may run headers, exhaust under vehicle.
28. Street Modified may use oversized tires per rule #6.
29. Any pull under 75' is eligable for one (1) immediate re-pull.
30. Classes 1 & 2 must have proof of a valid inspection sticker and
registration.

Classes --

	1  5500lbs Stock
	2  5500lbs Street Modified
	3  5500lbs Super Modified
	4  6500lbs Super modified Unlimited

Now, you're all likely as confused as I am...

Walt K.
-------

"BLIND" COPY:  You are probably not a listed addressee.

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 10:00:40 1993
Subject: Re: T5 question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6122
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> all gears (except 4th, which is 1:1), so be aware of that.  Where I
-> got burned is that the input shafts are very slightly different.
-> Yes, they have the same number of splines and input shaft diameter,
-> but the length of the shaft and the size of the pilot are different.
-> Even side by side, with more than a quick glance, you will swear they
-> are the same

 Hey, I didn't know that.  I did know the shifter locations, tailshaft
lengths, and rear mounts vary all over the place, but I thought all GM
T5s had the same input shaft.  After all, the Saginaw, Muncie, and T10
boxes do.

 BTW, Ford Top Loader and T10 boxes can be a booger sometimes too.  Ford
made the bellhousing bolt pattern and input shaft length/dia different
on practically every engine/trans combo.  The FE series big block and
the Windsor/Cleveland small blocks have totally different bellhousing
bolt patterns... but the FE input shaft is damned near identical to the
small block.  In fact, you can slide an FE box in and drive off with it.
Unfortunately, the FE input shaft is a bit shorter, and usually just
barely engages the bushing, which it pounds to bits after a short time.
With no pilot bushing, shifts get... funny.

 You can also put a small block trans into an FE.  Most times, the
longer input shaft will push the bearing further into the crank, and you
can wrench the thing into place, but disengaging the clutch doesn't do
much.

 And to top it off, cable-operated small block bellhousings (Mustang II
and Fox) are deeper than older rod actuated housings, and the
transmissions have longer input shafts.  Ford interchangeability is
pretty dodgy.
                                                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 10:06:34 1993
Subject: Re: T5 question 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6123
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Thanks to all who helped out with this question...:)  I guess I'll put it in
and if it holds up...great...and if not..*shrug*  no loss..:)  It'll do for the
breaking in if nothing else :)
Rob

----------
Posted by: emory!LINDEN.MSVU.CA!RRAY (Robert Ray)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 10:11:19 1993
Subject: Ford 460 Throttle Body
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6124
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Anyone have an idea of what size throttle body is being used on Ford 460 EFI engines? Would it be too much to ask if a part number is available ? Thanks.

Jeff Armfield
cr00jsa@ctccummins.cummins.com
armfield@mn.ecn.purdue.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!ctccummins.cummins.com!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 15:40:55 1993
Subject: Re: Radiators(Ron Davis racing radiators)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6125
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hey guys
	I know I post the same basic thing in reply to the question about
where to get a radiator for the torino but here it is again.
	I've heard very good things about Ron Davis's Racing Radiators
I beleive he's in phenox Arizonia. he can make anything. His prices
are good and his service is _excelent_ The folks at Robison Racing
in Atlanta Ga. (404) 475-3555 can tell you how to get in touch with
him.  Their the ones that recamended him to me. Sorry I don't have his
number myself. Id call information and get it except I'm on the phone
right now :)

        Henry Sommer               Mechanical Engineering student
        gt0035b@prism.gatech.edu   Georgia Institute of Technology     

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 15:48:38 1993
Subject: Comp T/A tire sizes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6126
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Got the info from BFG about Team T/A, which includes size data on the
-> Comp T/A R-1's.  Here's what I got on the new 224 series road race
-> compounds.  I hope Dave Williams can add this info to his list.

 Thanks!  I'll add 'em to the list.  I've written off for some tire size
charts, but the tire companies are acting like they're secret
information or something.  Jeez, used to they'd bomb you with the
things.

 When I get the new stuff added, I'll repost the list.
                                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 15:58:15 1993
Subject: Chevy SB gallery-plug problem :(
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6127
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->   corner of the original square-plug .  Finally  one edge broke out,
-> so I fetched a tool to turn out the plug (don't know how it's
-> called in your language). So far so good - I drilled in the suitable
-> hole and used the

 Plug is correct.  You normally turn a plug with a wrench (Brit:
spanner) or a special square plug socket.  Your English is better than
my German.  


->   tool to get it out --> guess what ? - the tool broke. These plugs
-> stuck pretty hard in the block,eh  ?  After an hour or so I managed
-> it to get out the tool, so now I'am left with a damaged,stuck plug
-> with a hole in it :(

 Hey, think of how much fun you'd have if the engine was still in the
car!  And it was freezing outside, and you were working in a gravel
driveway.  I don't know about mechanics nowadays... too soft...



->   - IS THE ORIGINAL PLUG-THREAD A UNF 9/16 ? OR IS IT AN
-> CHEVY-SPECIFIC ?
...
->   that an M16 fine-tap would fit best ( that 's a metric thread,
-> which is better available to me than inch).Therefore the total-radius
-> of the new

 The reason you're having trouble matching the threads is that those
plugs are tapered thread, what we call NPT (National Pipe Thread).  They
are America's answer to the British Whitworth standard.  They require
special taper reamed holes, special expensive taps, have no sane size to
designation relationship, and they leak.

 An M16 fine thread, straight bolt should work fine as long as you use a
good thread sealant on it.


->   - CAN THE PLUG-BOSSES TAKE A 0.043-INCH BIGGER HOLE WITHOUT DAMAGE

 As long as you have 2mm or more from the outer edge of the boss to the
thread you should have no trouble.


WARNING!  ACHTUNG!

 Use a piece of wire to probe the hole before you put the new plug in.
Make ABSOLUTELY SURE there are no oil passages intersecting the one you
are plugging, where your new plug might block off the other oil passage.
You may have to shorten the new plug if it will block a cross-passage.
                                                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 16:11:33 1993
Subject: Radiators
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6128
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I'm looking for a good source for radiators. It seems that
-> everyone I ask about them know nothing or has only bad
-> experiance with buying a new one. So what I would like is
-> to find out who some of the better builders are and how to
-> get info on their products.

 Radiators for what?  For an ordinary car, I've never had a bit of
trouble with Modine or Harris, except for this agonizing pain near where
my wallet lives.

 For special applications, I'm planning to try Griffith or one of the
racefab shops next time I need something.  Their prices are as low as -
or lower - than standard replacement radiators, though you have to do
your own bracketry and hoses.

 For street rods and stuff, I dunno.
                                                                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 16:20:16 1993
Subject: Re: Mailing list for Harley's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6129
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Try rec.motorcycles.harley

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 16:24:28 1993
Subject:      Re: Harley Davidson & Racfab mailing lists.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6130
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Date:          Wed, 25 Aug 93 00:30 EDT
> Subject:       Re: Harley Davidson & Racfab mailing lists.
> From:          hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
> To:            hotrod@dixie.com
> Reply-to:      hotrod@dixie.com

> I've been on the Harley Davidson mailing list. They discuss more trip than technical matters. I have since requested to be dropped. The race fab mailing list is a real bear to get through. I have>  tried numerous times and have been unsuccesful so far. If anyone else out their gets through to the racefab newsgroup. I too would be interested. Roger Hensley, Patriot Motorsports.Coe
>
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!dcmdc.dla.mil!xgg3511 (Roger Hensley)
>
>
>
>

Are you sending your request to racefab-request@.... or to just
racefab? The former is what you need...
Good luck, its a worthwhile list to read!

-bill-

-Bill-
martin@cubic.com
(619) 627-4516

----------
Posted by: "Bill Martin"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 16:29:54 1993
Subject: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6131
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	While this may not be directly related to the charter, it is technical
and could lead to some interesting metallurgical discussions, so I'm sure John
won't mind.  :-)

	My ZX-11 has a warped brake rotor.  Ye dial indicator reads somewhere
between .015" and .020" of runout (can't be more precise since my mounting
point wasn't stable).  Service limit is .012".  The brakes pulse like crazy
when I squeeze the lever.  I can still stop quickly, but it's annoying as
hell, and I'm sure the duty cycles aren't doing any of the bike any good.

	Anyway, Brembo replacements run $300 _each_, which I'd like to avoid
if possible (hard to finance a racebike when you spend all your money on the
streetbike).  So I was wondering about the following:

	Would it be possible to toss the rotor into the oven, heat it gradually
and uniformly and cool it to see if the thermal stress would relieve itself
and unwarp the rotor?

	The background to how it warped:  I took off one day and forgot to
remove the padlock from the rotor carrier (the rotor is one of those floating
types).  The carrier was bent with no damage to the rotor.  Everything was
fine for several thousand miles.  Then I switched to Ferodo pads, which grab
better than the OEM pads and therefore dump a lot more heat into the rotor.
Within two thousand miles, the rotor had warped.  The other rotor is fine
(.007" of runout, well within spec).

	I took a drift and beat the bent carrier straight again, which helped
some, but I still have this crazy pulsing going on.

	Now, my hypothesis is:  heat + bent carrier ==> warped rotor, so maybe
heat + straightened carrier ==> less warped rotor.

	Other ideas I was thinking of trying were:  clamp the rotor tightly
beteen two pieces of straight stock to unwarp it, maybe add heat, maybe not.

	Would tossing the rotor in the oven help?  If so, how hot should I
get it, and would rapid heating/cooling or gradual heating/cooling be best, or
some combination, or what?

	Any metallurgists out there?  MEs?  Brake experts?

	Turning the rotor is not an option.  Motorcycle rotors are thin as it
is, so removing metal will only guarantee that they will warp again.

Any help is appreciated,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 16:34:25 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy SB gallery-plug problem :(
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6132
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article emory!fridolin.ngate.uni-regensburg.de!Karl (Werner J. Karl) writes:
>[...oil gallery plug stuck, broke ez-out trying to remove it...]

	Get a carbide drill bit in reversed pitch.  Switch your drill on
reverse (so it spins counterclockwise) and go to work.  Often, the vibration
of drilling and the counterclockwise torque imparted by the drill bit will
loosen a stuck fastener and spin it out.

	It will help immensely if you liberally apply penetrating oil to the
affected area twice a day for a few days and tap it a little bit when you do
so the oil can soak into the threads.

Good luck,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 16:39:13 1993
Subject: '69 Camaro update
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6133
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Thanks for everybody's advice and comments on building my 350 for my '69
Camaro.  

	This is what it will have for sure:  flat-top forged TRW pistons,
Clevite 77 bearings, moly rings, .030" over bore, brand new crank (GM cast),
brand new GM off-road heavy duty 8" harmonic balancer, true-roller timing
chain, Competition Cams Magnum 268H cam, hydraulic lifters, hardened
push-rods, Milodon stamped steel rockers with grooved balls, stock cylinder
heads mildly ported (by myself), hardened exhaust seats, three angle valve
job, high volume oil pump with new pickup tube, chrome-moly pump drive, brass
freeze plugs.  To pass smog I'm leaving the stock 4bbl Q-Jet and intake and
the stock distributor and coil.  I have 1-5/8" headers which are legal
because I don't have an AIR pump (no AIR pumps on automatic equiped '69s).
The headers dump into some 2" ID glasspacks.  I know glasspacks aren't the
greatest horsepower builders, but I like how they sound.

	I'm getting the trans rebuilt while I'm at it.  I'm going to have a
shift kit and heavy duty roller sprag put in.  I'm also getting a 1850 rpm
stall modified torque convertor.  

	Since I'm blowing about $525 on the trans and torque convertor, I
might not be able to some other things I'd like, like balancing everything,
getting some new rod bolts, etc.

	The block is a two-bolt main, and the heads will only give it about
9:1 compression.  I figure it should make about 300 horsepower.  

	The rods are resized and magnafluxed.  Do you think this engine will
be powerful enough to need better quality rods and bolts?

	PAW (Performance Automotive Warehouse) sells reconditioned,
magnafluxed, shot-peened rods with new ARP bolts for $150.00 a set.  They
also sell the "pink" rods for about $200.00 a set.  I'm contemplating getting
some of the pink rods -- what do you think?

	Thanks for your advise.

	Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 18:40:16 1993
Subject: Goodguys West Coast event last weekend
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6134
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I went to the Goodguys event last weekend.  They had 3,000 pre- '53 hot rods,
street rods, customs, and trucks there.

	I thought some of the more notable cars there were:

	A super-nice ~'51 Chevy station wagon.  Black with hand-painted faux
woodie section from the body line up to the top.  It had a chopped roof and a
big block Buick or Pontiac in it.  It's a really original looking rod.

	An old '30s truck with a tilt flatbed box.  Under the bed was a
gigantic set of tires pro-street style.  Under the hood was a blown 454 which
fed into dual stainless megaphones which exited right in front of the wheels.
 The guy was driving his truck around with no mufflers.  It sounded awesome. 
He backed it up next to the Cadzilla display.

	I saw Cadzilla last year, but it's still one of the coolest cars
around.

	They had Chezoom there.  It's almost too sleek.  It resembles one of
the old '59 Chrysler 300s.

	There was a bare steel, still half-finished custom there which had
the back end of a '71 Riviera, but the front of some '50s car -- it looked
pretty wild.

	They had a bunch of nice Willys, a ton of nice old Fords, and a fair
amount of other brands as well.

	After seeing a few hundred Fords, it's nice to see some of the
oddballs like Studebakers, Nashs, Buicks.  

	It was nice to see a lot of cars there that look they're actually
driven -- with nicks, scratches etc.  I enjoy seeing unfinished and primered
cars.  Some cars even look better in primer -- sort of evil and mysterious!
There seems to be kind of a backlash against the onslought of aftermarket
"billet" stuff.  I saw people with shirts saying "no billet, no polish, no
bullshit".  

	It was a great show -- I always look forward to the Goodguys events.

	Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Aug 25 18:50:01 1993
Subject: Re: Ron Davis Racing produc
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6135
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

GatorMail-Q                   RE>>Ron Davis Racing products
>	I've heard very good things about Ron Davis's Racing Radiators
>I beleive he's in phenox Arizonia. he can make anything. His prices
>are good and his service is _excelent_ The folks at Robison Racing

Looking in our Phoenix area phone book yielded :

Ron Davis Racing Products
2905 W. Buckeye Rd.
(602) 269-9194

I would guess this is the place, it was only listed in the back of the
White pages.  Hope this helps.
Jim


----------
Posted by: "Jim Chott" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 26 16:48:44 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6136
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

some material edited for brvity:

In article <_21y93f@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>
>My ZX-11 has a warped brake rotor.  Ye dial indicator reads somewhere
>between .015" and .020" of runout (can't be more precise since my mounting
>point wasn't stable).  Service limit is .012".  The brakes pulse like crazy
>when I squeeze the lever.  I can still stop quickly, but it's annoying as
>hell, and I'm sure the duty cycles aren't doing any of the bike any good.
>
>I took a drift and beat the bent carrier straight again, which helped some,
>but I still have this crazy pulsing going on.  Now, my hypothesis is: heat +
>bent carrier ==> warped rotor, so maybe heat + straightened carrier ==>>less
>warped rotor.
>
>Would it be possible to toss the rotor into the oven, heat it gradually
>and uniformly and cool it to see if the thermal stress would relieve itself
>and unwarp the rotor?

>Other ideas I was thinking of trying were:  clamp the rotor tightly beteen
>two pieces of straight stock to unwarp it, maybe add heat, maybe not.
>
>Would tossing the rotor in the oven help?  If so, how hot should I get it,
>and would rapid heating/cooling or gradual heating/cooling be best, or
>some combination, or what?  Any metallurgists out there?  MEs?  Brake experts?
>
>Turning the rotor is not an option.  Motorcycle rotors are thin as it is, so
>removing metal will only guarantee that they will warp again.
>Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
>behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1991 ZX-11 - needs a name

  I'm not a metallurgist, but I play one on TV :)    my $.02 on warped rotors
is that the chunk of metal they were made from (i.e. the 'stock' in the vernac-
ular of real hardware) was not stress revieved before they were machined and
drilled.  this process, involving heating to a certain temperature (depends on
the material, composition, alloy, and excatly what type of properties you
ultimately want) and then cooling, would require time and $$, so it *probably*
isn't done by any manufacturer.  plus it helps lead to planned obsolesence
(spelling??) and thus the mfger gets richer while you pay, and pay, and pay.
wood 2x4's often warp after they've been cut; it is the material's way of
trying to relive it's own internal stress (albeit for different reasons as 
metal).

what to do??  i don't think clamping the warped rotor will do anything useful;
the metal will spring right back to the warp position after you unclamp.
since you are probably hosed, you have nothing to lose by trying the easy-bake
option (put the offending rotor in the oven). this MAY actually make the
problem worse, but as i say you have nothing to lose.  go for close to the max
of the oven (a real oven, NOT A MICROWAVE oevn).  say 450 degrees F, for an
hour (should be long enough to get uniform temp in the rotor), and then turn
off oven, open door a crack and let cool overnight (i.e. very slow cool).

the right way to really do this, especially if you own a honda motor car,
vehicles prone to warped rotors, is to take the new rotors off the car, cook
them, let them cool back to room temp, and then have them trued up on a brake
lathe.  a pain-in-the-butt for sure, but for the owner of a car with chronic
brake warping, it is a relatively easy thing to try, and there really isn't any
thing unsafe about it since the rotrs wind up getting trued to spec after the
heat.  i also don't think brake rotors and/or drums are of any special alloy
or surface hardening treatment, so the heating-cooling operation shouldn't
affect the metal hardness.

just for info purposes, heating an iron-steel alloy and then rapid cooling will
harden a metal;  heating plus hammering (like the blacksmith working a red-hot 
sword) is forging which is usually accompanied by careful rapid cooling of only
the surface metal (hardens the surface but keeps the interior metal relatively 
'soft').  since brakes get hot, and sometimes very hot, then any metal temper
(hardness) would be reduced after prolonged heating.  plus, the gradual 
abrasive gringing of the brake pads on the disc/drum would wear away the
top layer anyway.  so remember that heating to *some* temperature, and then
rapid cooling makes the metal harder, but also more brittle.   heating followed
by gradual cooling allows the metal to be relatively soft (as metals go) but
it is also quite tough, and not as prone to a brittle fracture. bending a
paper clip back and forth involved cold work hardening, which makes the metal
a little harder, but also more brittle.  bend that clip a few times, and then
heat it in the oven, then slow cool, will usually de-harden the metal and make
it soft and pliable again.  so much for a little background.

as far as the bike problem is concerned, you really don't have much material
left to 'true-up' so you will probably wind up getting new rotors anyway.

DISCLAIMER:  i AM a mech engr (phd student), but i have never had the warp
problem described on the various auto bulliten boards.  but i DO know a little
about metal mfg-ing and how internal stresses are formed, and how they can be
relieved.  that's what prompted me to reply.  caveat emptor. -ken


----------
Posted by: emory!athena.mit.edu!kdrolt (Kenneth D Rolt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 26 16:59:52 1993
Subject: Re: Goodguys West Coast even
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6137
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>Goodguys West Coast event l
>I went to the Goodguys event last weekend.  They had 3,000 pre- '53 hot >rods,
street rods, customs, and trucks there.

I was at the West Coast Nationals too, over 3,000 cars (I saw # 3179), too -
did you have a car there? If so, what?

>I thought some of the more notable cars there were:

>A super-nice ~'51 Chevy station wagon.  Black with hand-painted faux
>woodie section from the body line up to the top.  It had a chopped roof >and a
big block Buick or Pontiac in it.  It's a really original looking rod.

>An old '30s truck with a tilt flatbed box.  Under the bed was a
>gigantic set of tires pro-street style.  Under the hood was a blown 454 >which
fed into dual stainless megaphones which exited right in front of >the wheels. 
The guy was driving his truck around with no mufflers.  It >sounded awesome. He
backed it up next to the Cadzilla display.

>I saw Cadzilla last year, but it's still one of the coolest cars around.

>They had Chezoom there.  It's almost too sleek.  It resembles one of
>the old '59 Chrysler 300s.

>There was a bare steel, still half-finished custom there which had
>the back end of a '71 Riviera, but the front of some '50s car -- it looked
>pretty wild.

that's Buck's car - he's been working on it about 1-1/2 years - the front end
is a bullet nose Studebaker totally reworked

>They had a bunch of nice Willys, a ton of nice old Fords, and a fair
>amount of other brands as well.

did you go in the Commerce building and see:
- the prowler was there Thursday night, Friday and Saturday (went down 
   to Pebble Beach Saturday for Sunday showing
- Norm Grabowski's "Kookie Kar II" - finished
- last year's give away car was there - finished
- Dennis Varney's AMBR (1992 Oakland Roadster Show's pick for 
   "America's Most Beautiful Rod/Roadster")

>After seeing a few hundred Fords, it's nice to see some of the
>oddballs like Studebakers, Nashs, Buicks.  

Nash & Buick have become really popular lately at the car to customize - there
are still a lot out there and they're still quite affordable for someone who is
just coming into the sport/hobby and for someone who has finished his 30's car
and now wants to work on another car

>It was nice to see a lot of cars there that look they're actually
>driven -- with nicks, scratches etc.  I enjoy seeing unfinished and >primered
cars.  Some cars even look better in primer -- sort of evil and >mysterious!

yeah - 'trailer queens' are snickered at by a lot of the west coast rodders -
they make comments like 'what's wrong with it now', etc

my car was there - '33 roadster - terra cotta with mercedes beige leather
interior and our new Tea's seats - I drove up from the coast (80 miles one way)
and spent the weekend at the show

>There seems to be kind of a backlash against the onslought of >aftermarket
"billet" stuff.  I saw people with shirts saying "no billet, no >polish, no
bullshit".  

>It was a great show -- I always look forward to the Goodguys events.



----------
Posted by: "Sharen Rund" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 26 17:10:15 1993
Subject: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6138
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->      Other ideas I was thinking of trying were:  clamp the rotor
-> tightly beteen two pieces of straight stock to unwarp it, maybe add
-> heat, maybe not.

 Heck, it's warped now, it's not like you could hurt it any.  Give it a
try.
                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Aug 26 19:45:43 1993
Subject: RE: New cam
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6139
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Dirk Broer writes:

>When they recomend running the engine up to 2000 - 2500 rpm for 15 to 30
>minutes, its to splash enough oil on the cam to help the wear-in process.

That is not entirely correct.  The pressure and wear on the cam lobes is
lowest at those RPMs.  If you fully simulate the valve train dynamics you
can verify this. 

>I don't think the break-in period has to be longer than 15 minutes.

One can think what one wants, but I'd follow the cam manufacturers directions
to the letter on break-in.  As I recall Comp cams recommends 20 to 30.

 Brian


---
bkelley@pms706.pms.ford.com

----------
Posted by: emory!ef2007.efhd.ford.com!bkelley (Brian Kelley)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 02:38:27 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6140
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>>My ZX-11 has a warped brake rotor.  Ye dial indicator reads somewhere


>since you are probably hosed, you have nothing to lose by trying the easy-bake
>option (put the offending rotor in the oven). this MAY actually make the
>problem worse, but as i say you have nothing to lose.  go for close to the max
>of the oven (a real oven, NOT A MICROWAVE oevn).  say 450 degrees F, for an
>hour (should be long enough to get uniform temp in the rotor), and then turn
>off oven, open door a crack and let cool overnight (i.e. very slow cool).

Ok metalurgists, jump right in here.  I'm no expert either, except for working
in a foundry for a couple of years, but -

Annealing temps for steel is *WAY* over 450 degrees.  In fact, I'd guess under
hard braking, the rotor actually gets that hot!

Anyone know for sure on this?

-- 
   /\ /_  _    jgardner@convex.com
   \//_//_/
   /     /
  /    \/      

----------
Posted by: emory!convex.com!jgardner (John B. Gardner)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 02:43:18 1993
Subject: Engine Value Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6141
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have an opportunity to purchase a 1976 (77?) Olds 455 Engine and the T400 
Hydromatic that comes with it.  The engine has $85000 miles on it, passes 
all the normal tests (that can be done in the car), and runs fine.  My 
question is what would the value of this engine be?  I would like to give 
this guy a fair price for it.

SJRD

----------
Posted by: emory!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!bphdarcy (Sean J. Roc D'Arcy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 02:47:27 1993
Subject: Re: A real HOT Torino GT
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6142
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I had a 351W and the head gaskets should be installed as marked by ford.
Front means front.  Coolant flow through the head will be obstructed if 
the head gasket is not installed correctly.



----------
Posted by: emory!gatech!sdf.lonestar.org!randykim (Randy Kimes)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 02:52:05 1993
Subject: why Honda warp so often
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6143
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	While what ken said is probably true I don't know the details of
break manufacture either. The reason Hondas (whose drums and rotors are cast
then turned to get a surface) have a bad reputation for warping is that they
have pressed on rotors.  In Order to get them off you often have to use a
slide hammer (which is why cars so equiped are called snatchs :) which
can warp the rotor.  The recamended way to turn them is with an on-the-car
lathe. These are very expensive and about the only people to have them are
dealers. If you don't have one they generaly reccomend that you take the
whole front upright off and put it on the lathe. This is a good compromise
because it usualy give you a true rotor.

	Now for another materials quastion that maybe Ken can answer.
Do you need to stress relieve cast parts? I assume if you did so it would
be very similar to anealing but probably called something different.

	In reply to the motorcycle maybe you should compromise and take
just enough off to get it near or in spec without going too thin. It will 
be a close call and probably won't solve the problem completely.

Henry Sommer

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt0035b (Henry David Sommer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 20:52:51 1993
Subject: Brooklands books and Antonick's phone number ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6144
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi, could someone please tell me the phone number of Brooklands Books and 
Antonick (other than an 800 number) ? And by the way, does someone know if 
there exist books about the 71 Buick Riviera ?
Thanks in advance. Cheers. Floris.

----------
Posted by: emory!dxcern.cern.ch!bonf (Floris Bonthond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 21:24:06 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-32*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6145
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

OLDS RACING SERIES, DES MOINES (T)    8/27     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, BRISTOL (L)                 8/27     7:30-9:30PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Road America8/27     9:30-10:00PM     ESPN
SAAB PRO SERIES, LOUDON (T)           8/28     6:00-6:30AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (F1 @ Hungary)         8/28     6:30-7:00AM      ESPN
Shadetree Mechanic (struts & springs) 8/28     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
HYDROPLANE RACING, SEATTLE (T)        8/28     1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
FIREHAWK/SUPERCAR SERIES, LIME ROCK(T)8/28     1:30-2:00PM      TNN
INDY LIGHTS, LOUDON (T)               8/28     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          8/28     2:00-2:30PM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                     8/28     2:00-2:30PM      DISC
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              8/28     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      8/28     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
NASCAR (NORTH), LOUDON (T)            8/28     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, LOUDON (T)           8/28     4:30-5:00PM      ESPN
MotorWeek '93 (Toyota Land Cruiser)   8/28     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
IOGP POWERBOATS, MICHIGAN (T)         8/28     5:00-5:30PM      TNN
SpeedWeek                             8/28     7:00-7:30PM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, BRISTOL (L)              8/28     7:30-11:00PM     ESPN
SpeedWeek                             8/29     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             8/29     3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
INDY LIGHTS, LOUDON (T)               8/29     3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, BRISTOL (T)                 8/29     4:00-6:00AM      ESPN
FORMULA 1, SPA, BELGIUM (L)           8/29     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
Truckin' USA                          8/29     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Motor Sports Hour                     8/29     9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Truck And Tractor Power               8/29     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Cruz Pedregon)               8/29     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
Cycle World                           8/29     10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              8/29     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      8/29     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    8/29    11:30AM-12:00PM   HTS*
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           8/29    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
NHRA NATIONALS, BRAINERD (T)          8/29     1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
Documentary "Wild Wheels"             8/29     1:45-2:50PM      MAX
ASA, I-70 SPEEDWAY, ODESSA, MO (L)    8/29     2:00-4:30PM      TNN
INDYCAR, VANCOUVER (L)                8/29     4:00-6:00PM    ESPN,CBC
Winners (Cruz Pedregon)               8/29     4:30-5:00PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (struts & springs) 8/29     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    8/29     6:00-6:05PM      TNN
NHRA SPORTSNATIONALS, POMONA (T)      8/29     6:05-7:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today w/Steve Evans              8/29     7:30-8:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup w/Ned Jarrett      8/29     8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay w/Pat Patterson (L)           8/29     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine (Wrangler & Lincoln8/29     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
FORMULA 1, SPA, BELGIUM (SD)          8/29    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
Truckin' USA                          8/30     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
NHRA NATIONALS, SEATTLE (T)           8/30     1:00-2:00AM      HTS*
SCCA, LIME ROCK (T)                   8/30     4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
SODA, OFF-ROAD RACING, DEPERE (T)     8/30     1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, BRISTOL (T)              8/30     2:00-4:00PM      ESPN
Motor Sports Hour                     8/30     3:00-4:00PM      HTS*
F ATLANTIC, VANCOUVER (T)             8/30     5:30PM           TSN
Checkered Flag (F1 @ Spa)             8/30     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/30     7:30-8:00PM      MTV
IHRA NATIONALS, SCRIBNER (T)          8/31     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 8/31     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
SCCA, DES MOINES (T)                  8/31     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
FORMULA 1, SPA, BELGIUM (T)           8/31     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Road America8/31     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
SAAB PRO SERIES, LOUDON (T)           8/31     2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, LOUDON (T)           8/31     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
ASA, ANDERSON 400 (T)                 8/31     9:00-11:30PM     HTS*
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/1      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
WINSTON CUP, BRISTOL (T)              9/1      3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Movie: The Cannonball Run             9/1      10:00-11:35AM    HBO
Speed Racer (cartoon)                 9/2      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Vancouver)  9/2      1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
INDYCAR, VANCOUVER (T)                9/2      3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (F1 @ Spa)             9/2      1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
Cycle World                           9/2      1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Checkered Flag (IndyCar @ Vancouver)  9/2      1:30-2:00PM      ESPN
NHRA NATIONALS, BRAINERD (T)          9/2      2:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Motor Sports Hour                     9/2      2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                9/2      3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
NHRA NATIONALS, SEATTLE (T)           9/2      7:30-8:30PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (Toyota Land Cruiser)   9/2      8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           9/2      8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     9/2      9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                9/2      10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR (L)               9/2     11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
SpeedWeek                             9/3      12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
AMA GRAND NATIONAL, SACRAMENTO (T)    9/3      1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
HYDROPLANE RACING, SEATTLE (T)        9/3      4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             9/3      3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (Winston Cup @ Bristol)9/3      6:00-6:30PM      ESPN
DODGE SHELBY, LIME ROCK (T)           9/3      9:30-10:30PM     HTS*

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

BUSCH GN, DARLINGTON (SD)             9/4      4:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DARLINGTON (L)           9/5      1:00PM           ESPN
IHRA NATIONALS, NORWALK (T)           9/5      5:00PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, RICHMOND (?)                9/10     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (L)             9/11     1:00PM           TBS
FORMULA 1, MONZA, ITALY (L)           9/12     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (L)                 9/12     1:00-3:30PM      ESPN
ASA, MADISON INTERNATIONAL SPEEDWAY(L)9/12     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, MID-OHIO (SD)                9/12     5:00PM           TSN
F1, MONZA OR INDYCAR, M-OHIO (SD)     9/12    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, MID-OHIO (T)              9/13     7:30PM           TSN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (?)                   9/18     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                9/19     12:00PM          TNN
IMSA GTP, PONTIAC (L)                 9/19     1:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, NAZARETH (T)              9/19     5:00PM           TSN
INDYCAR, NAZARETH (T)                 9/20     9:00-11:00PM  ESPN,TSN
SCCA TRANS-AM, WATKINS GLEN (T)       9/22     12:30AM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (L)      9/26     8:50-11:00AM     TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, MARTINSVILLE (L)         9/26     12:40PM          ESPN
NASCAR LATE MODEL, MARTINSVILLE (T)   9/26     9:30PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (SD)     9/26    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, ESTORIL, PORTUGAL (T)      9/27     9:00-11:00PM     ESPN
BUSCH GN, ROUGEMONT (?)               10/2     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, N. WILKESBORO (L)        10/3     1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/3     9:00-11:00PM  ESPN,TSN
INDYCAR, LAGUNA SECA (SD)             10/3    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out RDS which broadcasts each race live. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim 
Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     ASN                Arizona                         Ben Loosli
     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 21:49:30 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6146
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


John B. Gardner writes:
>Annealing temps for steel is *WAY* over 450 degrees.  In fact, I'd guess under
>hard braking, the rotor actually gets that hot!

The rotor sure does, in fact it gets a lot hotter than that if you are
really using it (e.g., autocross).

Tempering temperatures for carbon steels are about 430 to 530 degrees
F.  Annealing temperatures are typically about 1350 to 1700 degrees F.

But none of this is to the point - my rotors are cast iron, not steel.

Bob Hale

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 21:55:08 1993
Subject: 5.0 Mustang Parts For Sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6147
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I've got this whole pile of 5.0L Mustang stuff that I would like to
get rid of.  All of this stuff will go to the best offer I get for it.
Most of this stuff is off of a '88 Mustang GT.

- Bunch of interior pieces (red) including back seats, interior panels,
  console, radio, headliner, various trim pieces.

- 6 point bolt in Autopower rollcage

- Upper police/taxi control arms.  These have a plate welded to them
  to box them.

- Koni SS (Yellow) rear shocks (used, but still very stiff)

- Koni quad shocks (used, but still very stiff)

- Fuel injection upper and lower intakes

- Speed Density FI wiring harness, computer.

- Saleen G-load brace

- Used rocker arms, pushrods, roller lifters, valve springs, and camshaft

- Bare Aluminum TFS heads (race version - new in box)

Please feel free to call me a talk about any of this stuff, or just
mustangs and racing in general! Prices are all very negotiable.

719-535-1322.

Thanks,

-Bob




-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 22:00:20 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6148
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Annealing temps for steel is *WAY* over 450 degrees.  In fact, I'd guess under
>hard braking, the rotor actually gets that hot!
>Anyone know for sure on this?

I have read reliable reports from a Mustang racer.  During a race, the
rotor's on his car can exceed 1000 degrees.  This is a measured
temperature, not guessed.  That's why on televised races sometimes
brakes rotors are glowing visibly red.  Though on a motorbike it
probably wouldn't get that hot (less efficient brake pads and more
cooling than on a race car).

>The reason Hondas... have a bad reputation for warping is that they
>have pressed on rotors.  In Order to get them off you often have to use a
>slide hammer which can warp the rotor.

I disagree.  They warp because they get too hot.  They are worse than
some others because the rotor is thin and non-ventilated.

>The recamended way to turn them is with an on-the-car lathe. These are very
>expensive and about the only people to have them are dealers.

Yeah, the lathes are expensive, but I found that to have the dealer turn
the front rotors was only a little more than renting a puller, taking
them off, paying to have them turned at a local shop, and then replacing
the bearings.  Not to mention a whole lot easier.  I hear the newer
Hondas are much easier to replace the rotors.


----------
Posted by: David Gonzales (General) 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 22:05:00 1993
Subject: Re: Goodguys West Coast even
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6149
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  How about the injected Fiat. You don't see one of those at every show. And the
Anglea's. TOOO!! COOL!!

----------
Posted by: emory!cpd.tandem.com!jerry
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 23:39:13 1993
Subject: Kid Presto??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6150
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 I bought a rag a while back called Engines. It had a really nice B.B. Chevy
on the cover. What I am interested in is the valve covers. They had the
name Kid Presto on them. Does anyone know where I can get my hands
on a pair of these? Who sells them? or a MFG. phone number?

 Hope you can help!

 Jerry

----------
Posted by: emory!spike.cpd.tandem.com!jerry (Jerry Hendrickson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Aug 27 23:44:43 1993
Subject: brakes, etc
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6151
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


A few thoughts about rotors.  In general, I think you are hosed and will
have to buy a new rotor.  I also think that 450 might be a bit low for
any sort of brake temperature, but I am no metalurgist.

I know that brake rotors often glow red from use.  This is certainly more
than 450, and probably more like 1450.

About on-the-car rotor turners.  They are not that expensive, I have a friend
that has a new one.  They can save time, but do require a bit of 
pain-in-the-ass tuning for each rotor used.  There is a standing $100,000 
offer from the maker of the particular model I have used to correct this!
If you can think of a way, collect the $. ( Yes, less than a million,
but more than ten thousand. )

The crux of the problem is that spindles can be bent, even just a little,
preventing brake rotor truing WRT the caliper.  With the rotor in a
lathe, this problem disapperas.

Finally, try, if you have access to a brake lathe, to just touch up
the rotor.  Take 0.006 only off the high spots.  This will require new
sharp points on the lathe.  Take off 0.002 per pass.  Good luck.  You
may reduce the pulsation to acceptable levels.

[ John:
  I wrote you a note at perform@dixie.com and it was auto-replied.  I
  need to change my address of delivery of PE.  I never got the first
  mag, as it went to my old address. Please send further correspondecne 
  to me here.  Thanks. ]


Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dainippon Screen Engineering of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704
     extra line in my .rsig

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Aug 28 21:39:22 1993
Subject: PUBLIC AUCTION OF SALVAGE VEHICLES AND PARTS
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6152
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

[I guess this is close enough to our charter.  JGD]

***************************************************************************

                         INSURANCE AUTO AUCTIONS
***************************************************************************

                           LIVE PUBLIC AUCTION

        Thousands of late model, good rebuildable, theft-recovered
        parts cars, trucks, motor homes, boats, trailers, boats, 
        motorcycles and heavy trucks, including exotics and classics!

               PUBLIC/WHOLESALERS/DEALERS/DISMANTLERS WELCOME!
               
                     4 LOCATIONS IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA!

***************************************************************************
10728 U.S. ELEVATOR RD,#101        * 7245 LAUREL CANYON BLVD
SPRING VALLEY, CA 91978            * NORTH HOLLYWOOD, CA 91605
619 670-1400                       * 818 786-2220

AUCTION EVERY MONDAY               * AUCTION EVERY WEDNESDAY
PREVIEW EVERY FRIDAY               * PREVIEW EVERY TUESDAY
***************************************************************************
400 EAST REDONDO BEACH BLVD        * 12725 TRADE AVENUE
GARDENA, CA 90248                  * COLTON, CA 92324
310 323-3330                       * 909 784-2700

AUCTION EVERY THURSDAY             * AUCTION EVERY OTHER TUESDAY
PREVIEW EVERY WEDNESDAY            * PREVIEW EVERY OTHER MONDAY
****************************************************************************
            Insurance Auto Auctions has a Northern California 
            division, an Oregon division, a Hawaii division and
            a Arizona division.

            FOR MORE INFORMATION CALL 1-800-538-4224! OR 
            E Mail the Spring Valley Manager, Mike Brattland
            at Brattlan@Cyber.net with your questions.

            ENTHUSIASTS OF ALL AUTOMOTIVE INTERESTS ARE WELCOME!
****************************************************************************


-- 
Mike Brattland(Brattlan@Cyber.net) 1971 Porsche 911T, 1988 Ford F150 4X4
El Cajon, California 1923 Ford Roadster(Ford 302,4spd,9 inch) Ex-Jeepster Owner
E-MAIL ME FOR FORD HOLLEY TRI-POWER INFORMATION FOR SMALL AND BIG BLOCK FORDS!

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Aug 29 16:42:20 1993
Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6153
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Aug 27, 21:15, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: Warped brake rotors
> >Annealing temps for steel is *WAY* over 450 degrees.  In fact, I'd guess
under
> >hard braking, the rotor actually gets that hot!
> >Anyone know for sure on this?
>
> I have read reliable reports from a Mustang racer.  During a race, the
> rotor's on his car can exceed 1000 degrees.  This is a measured
> temperature, not guessed.  That's why on televised races sometimes
> brakes rotors are glowing visibly red.  Though on a motorbike it
> probably wouldn't get that hot (less efficient brake pads and more
> cooling than on a race car).
>

I am told by spectators that the rotors on my Mustang get bright
glowing red. I almost always crack a set of rotors because of the high
temps.  Ask anyone who has road-raced a late model mustang.  They will
tell you the same.

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.cs.mci.com |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 30 02:39:31 1993
Subject: GM Flywheel ID (?)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6154
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone out there know what GM vehicles, including trucks,
came _stock_ from GM with the 168 tooth flywheel? Preferably
drilled for 11" clutch, but not absolutely necessary.

Reason: I have one, source unknown, and I need a starter. The
local place that sells rebuilds can only ID them by make and
model. Casting numbers aren't trustworthy on rebuilds, and they
won't let me take it apart to check it out (supposedly, the
head casting for the 168 tooth has two attaching bolts that are
different lengths; the other head has equal-length screws. Also,
it'd be nice to know what vehicle I get other misc parts from...

Thanks,
Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!geta.life.uiuc.edu!mrmike (Mike McCaughey)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Aug 30 10:39:33 1993
Subject: Re: New cam
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 6155
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi guys,	

well, now I have installed the new cam. As I had at least partly synthetic oil	
in the engine I decided to pour in new (mineral) oil and a new filter.
I will change the oil in about 1000 miles according to the cam manufacturers
advice.

The car runs good, with only a slightly rough idle. No surges or hesitations.

BUT, I seem to have a strange phenomenon. With the help of a vericom computer
I have plotted a power vs rpm graph. I got the following data:

4700 rpm : 235 hp
5100 rpm : 265 hp
5500 rpm : 300 hp

As I have stock heads and a restrictive exhaust I should have a power peak
BELOW 5000rpm but instead I have a dramatic increase...

The cam is rather mild (214/224 dgr duration int/exh and 442/462" lift).

I have a holley 4bbl. 600cfm with vacuum secs. I also have an edelbrock 
performer manifold and headders. Dual exhaust with transverse muffler
(Camaro).

Is it a carb problem? secondaries not opening correctly? Ignition? Fuel
pump? Any ideas welcome!

Thanx

Markus Strobl, '75 Camaro LT 350cui/TH350

----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)