From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 10:34:49 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5488
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
forum for  people interested in high performance vehicles to
exchange ideas and  discuss topics of current interest. This
list is chartered as broadly as possible consistent with  noise
supression.  I believe it to be more constructive to list
unacceptable topics and behavior rather than trying to
ennumerate permissible behavior. 

Unacceptable topics:  

*	Discussions about stock street cars.
*	Discussions about magic elixirs such as Slick 50 with no technical basis.
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Explicitly acceptable is any discussion regarding increasing the performance
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The list is echoed to Usenet on alt.hotrod.  You may be able to get this
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The following sites maintain archives:

ece.rutgers.edu archives the hotrod and the z-car mailing lists.  This is
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Hotrod-related GIFs (and others) are archived at ftp.nau.edu.  Unfortunately
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Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 13:34:55 1993
Subject: Re: Doug Thorley headers (was Whipple superchargers)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5489
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>     Also, somewhat unrelated, any opinions on Borla exaust
> systems as well as Doug Thorley headers?

In my esperience Doug Thorley makes the most durable and well-
thought out headers on the market.  They cost a bunch more but
I don't get the problems of leakage, short gasket life, constant
need to retorque, cracking, or any of the other evils provided by
the other vendors that I've tried.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)


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Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 13:40:01 1993
Subject: Polution help needed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5490
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Well Friday I visited the local Department of motor vehicles to determine
what I need to do do with my sons car in order to keep it liscensed for
the street.  Now I need additional ideas, and or suggestions so I`ll give
you the history.

It is a 1978 Pontiac LeMan's that originally had v-6 engine in it.  The
prior owner replaced the engine and transmission with a 1968 chevy 250
inline six and a powerglide transmission.  (nice low end torque set up
with 4.11 gears).  Well since the polution laws changed out here I decided
to talk with the polution people in Wisconsin.

According to them this car must meet Federal Polution standards.  Initially
it will be measured for the usual pollution numbers and the existance of
a catalitic converter, and small gas filler hole.  If it fails then we need
to correct the matter or spend a minimum of $500.00 on polution repairs.
If it fails after producing $500.00 in reciepts then they will do a total
check for originality to the vehicle ID number for engine , transmission
and all polition equipment being in tact.  If and only if all is original
as produced in 1978 then they will grant a waver.

Well my hope is getting through the original or first test.  But what are the 
possibilities of a 1968 250 passing those 1978 numbers.  Also if I add a
converter that means we need to run unleaded gasoline without a lead octane
booster and what will that to his valves.

Also how much work would it be to convert to the original V-6 and hydro-
matic?  I have located 2 V-6's in bone yards case a is a 228 from 1982
with a hydromatic for $325 exchange, and the second was a 231 from 1989
for $750.  How much difference is there between these two engines?  Well
I'm open to ideas and suggestions so please help.

dennis
bednarek@picard.med.ge.com

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Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 13:48:48 1993
Subject: Rating OK Cars *PLEASE LOOK*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5491
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


[Please, reply by mail  JGD]

   I am doing am interview to proove a point to my friend.  Please rate
the following cars from a scale of 1-10 and send me your results at
wassom@matt.ksu.ksu.edu.   Thank you for your time.
       These will all be 1992 cars to be compared:

Ford Thunderbird
Pontiac Firebird (Formula)
Chevy Camaro
Ford Mustang
Chevy Corvette
Dodge Caravan
Ford Aerostar
Ford Festiva
Dodge Dakota
Ford F250

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Posted by: emory!matt.ksu.ksu.edu!wassom (Clyde Wassom)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 13:55:35 1993
Subject: Re: Whipple superchargers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5492
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:

> It claimed a boost of 100 HP but at a cost of $3200.00,

I don't know much about superchargers, but I have been looking at different
prices. Doug Herbert Performance Parts sells a proprietary design
Weiand Supercharger that claims a 25-40% horsepower and torque boost.
$1,399 for small block Chevy, and $1650 for big block.

They sell a 6-71 style supercharger for $1795 and $1995, and claim Weiand
has 30 years of experience with it. Their number is 704+732-8888

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Posted by: emory!moxie.hou.tx.us!hackney (Greg Hackney)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 14:03:56 1993
Subject: Re:  Holley mixture adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5493
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 You can try a different power valve to move the enrichment point to a higher
vacuum level. This won't do anything for WOT but if your problem is a part-
throttle stumble it might do the trick. I believe the stock power valve
cracks at 6.5" which leaves plenty of room for knocking. I have switched to 
an 8.5" PV and a leaner jet, which seems to offer better economy on the 
occasions when my foot isn't very far down. 10" of vacuum seems to be where
I start to see a bit of stumble so 8.5" is close enough that I get through
it quickly but it's not so high that I'm enriched at cruise - although I
did take one trip into a strong headwind that kept me running at about 10"
of vacuum and saw some heroic fuel consumption due to frequent enrichment.

 What is really needed is a modest enlargement of the power valve channel
restrictors. If you're tuning for power you don't really want the primaries 
too lean. Using the O2 sensor I rigged up I was able to see a very lean
part throttle acceleration condition come back barely to stoich when the 
power valve kicks in. Ideally you'd want to be barely lean at cruise and
have more enrichment under load. It looks like a mixture shortcoming, not
a setpoint problem to me. I think my carb needs air holes drilled in the
primary plates; I'm not fully on the idle circuit at idle and if I try to
idle on the primaries with jetting appropriate for power my pipes dribble
soot. 

 Oh, for a proportional Holley power valve instead of the "on, off" ones
they make now. (Forget about the 2-stage ones; they're expensive and also
don't make the flow a healthy engine needs).

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 14:39:10 1993
Subject: Re: Holley mixture adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5494
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 31,  8:44pm, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: Holley mixture adjustment
> Has anyone ever modified a Holley to richen the primary power circuit?
> I have a problem where the cruise mixture is fine but when the manifold
> vacuum drops then the mixture is too lean and the engine bogs.  I'm
> running 66 jets on the primary to partially compensate for this; the
> engine actually prefers 65s for cruising but with 65s the engine
> *really* falls on its nose during acceleration on the primaries.
>
What about the power valve Bob? Does it need to be changed to get the 
secondaries open a little sooner? Mike

> Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
> ...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)
>-- End of excerpt from The Hotrod List




-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive(brattlan@speedway.net| ( Ford 302 Tri-Power  
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   | 4 spd, 9 inch )
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 16:09:17 1993
Subject: Re:  Holley mixture adjustm
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5495
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>> Holley mixture adjustme
National Dragster has had a very good 3 article series on tuning a Holley for
drag racing.  I thought it was a very good basic step-by-step explanation of
the principles and systems, as well as some good trouble shooting methods.  It
helped a friend and myself diagnose and treat a rich rough idle condition on
his 455 GS with a high lift cam.  It involved drilling the throttle plates
(about 1/8" hole in each on the primary side) so that we could adjust the
plates closed at idle and stay off the idle enrichment slot and still get a
good idle and crisp throttle response.

I learned alot, being a fuel injection kinda guy <*Grin*>.  Anyway, the three
article series has been for the last three issues.

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... turbo whine and tire smoke ... now that's livin' ! ..."


----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 18:37:38 1993
Subject: Re:  Holley mixture adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5496
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>                         I think my carb needs air holes drilled in the
> primary plates; I'm not fully on the idle circuit at idle and if I try to
> idle on the primaries with jetting appropriate for power my pipes dribble
> soot. 

I once had an engine that seemed to need air holes in the primary
throttle plate.  I never install them, and I'm glad I didn't.

Those air holes may allow enough flow so that your engine will
Diesel when you try to shut it off.  With the holes there is no
way to cut off the air flow and stop the engine.  Probably the
worst case is when the engine wants to Diesel, but in the reverse
rotation.  Your oil pump runs backwards and sucks the oil right out
of the engine!

I had to use an idle stop solenoid to avoid Dieselling on that
engine.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 21:02:49 1993
Subject: RE: Holley mixture adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5497
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Has anyone ever modified a Holley to richen the primary power circuit?
>I have a problem where the cruise mixture is fine but when the manifold
>vacuum drops then the mixture is too lean and the engine bogs.  I'm
>running 66 jets on the primary to partially compensate for this; the
>engine actually prefers 65s for cruising but with 65s the engine
>*really* falls on its nose during acceleration on the primaries.

Sounds like a accelorator pump problem.  Could also be timing - not
enough advance or vacumm advance hooked to manifold vacumm.  Maybe your
secondaries are opening too quickly.  Any of these would cause your
problem.

If never heard of changing the flow on the pwer valves even on very high
performance engines.  This leads me to beleive that your problem is
elsewhere.

Try this:

Force your secondaries to stay closed.  Disconnect and plug the vacumm
advance.  Tune the engine for best idle performance.  Now does it
stumble?  If it does check your accelorator pump - it should give a
healthy dose of gas.

This brings up another question - does it stumble during full throttle
cruising?  (engine under load) or justt during acceloration or "tip-in"?

Holley carbs are good carbs with alot of engineering behind them.
Before you try to reengineer make sure everything else is up to spec.

Good luck
Dirk

---

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Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 21:07:56 1993
Subject: Re: Nothing sounds like a good pair of glass packs.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5498
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Grep wrote:
>In alt.hotrod Bill writes:
>>        If I am on the highway press some on the accelerator and then
>>        back off completely you can actualy see the backfires at night
>>        coming out of both tail pipes.
>
>Isn't such backfiring out the pipes usually related to an ignition
>miss? 

Actually it caused by a rich condition - high rpm's followed by closing
of the air(lifting the throttle) causes very high vacumm - which it turn
sucks the gas from idle mixture screw - causing very rich mixture which
cannot completely burn.  A quick cure is more vacumm advance, higher
idle speed (don't let the throttle blades close all the way), or like
Porche cut thte fuel to the engine.  An MSD ignition may also help.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  1 21:11:08 1993
Subject: Re:  Polution help needed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5499
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 As I gather it's also EnviroKorrekt or at least EnviroPermissible to have
any engine that was a regular production option, I'd recommend looking for
a running organ donor with a '78 corporate V-8. That'd be a 305 probably;
the 350 was still going into Camaros as late as '81 but I'm not sure when
the mid-sizes quit getting them - might be possible. Take the motor, trans,
mounts and springs. 

 Swapping engines without increasing performance... Ppptui! Go to your room!

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  2 06:08:18 1993
Subject: Re: Holley mixture adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5500
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
|> Has anyone ever modified a Holley to richen the primary power circuit?
|> I have a problem where the cruise mixture is fine but when the manifold
|> vacuum drops then the mixture is too lean and the engine bogs.  I'm
|> running 66 jets on the primary to partially compensate for this; the
|> engine actually prefers 65s for cruising but with 65s the engine
|> *really* falls on its nose during acceleration on the primaries.


I recently investigated getting a kit from 'The Carb Shop' out in CA.
They offer this kit to install swappable jets into the channel restrictions.

looks simple enough, but I was able to improve my Holley's power circuit flow
by swapping out the 2 stage power valve for an 8.5" single stage unit. The carb
is an 8060 (4175 650cfm spreadbore w/ vac secondaries) running #60 jets.

This setup runs lean-lean-lean at cruise, but gets real fat when the manifold 
vacuum drops.  Its equipped with the secondary metering plate which has the
main fuel restrictions opened up to .093" 

Hope this helps,

$0.02

Ericy


      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
      |                         \,  _}                              |
      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*

----------
Posted by: emory!eru.mt.luth.se!Peon.w/o.Email   (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  2 12:36:36 1993
Subject: Couple 'a questions (and a war story)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5501
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Ok, war story first for those who get bored eaisly.  The engine in my '81 Z28
finally croaked this Sunday (gotta love those 4 day weekends.)  Basically,
without much warning, it decided that it would show me some of it's innards
via the oil pan, and proceeded to snap a wrist pin, make some god-awful noise
and then snap a rod and toss it through the oil pan to me.  So much for
rebuilding that puppy.  Anyway, this is not all that bad as I was planning
on replacing the engine anyway, I just have to do it about 8 months ahead
of schedule.  Supposedly the engine was rebuilt 20K miles before I bought the
car, and I put 40K hard (I mean HARD) miles on it since then after adding
some aftermarket parts (it was mostly stock when I got it.)  After some
investigative work, it seems the engine wasn't rebuilt, but just well taken
care of, so the engine had roughly 150K miles before it croaked.  Not too bad.
The car was running high 13's before it died too.  Good thing my garage is 
almost done...  Can you say "Catastrophic engine failure?" I thought you
could... :-)

Now for the details and questions.  The current boat anchor is a 350 Chevrolet
small-block, stock '81 heads and lower end (about 8:1 compression and smog
heads), Edelbrock Performer intake, Holley 650cfm double pumper, Heddmann
headers, 2 1/2" exhaust through flowmasters (yeah, loud), aftermarket cam
(details below) automatic trans and 3:73 rear end gears.  It went quite well,
ran high 13's in the quarter, and although the cam is rated for 3000-6500 rpms,
the heads/intake combo would only allow the engine to really pull to about
5000 rpm (valve float around  5500-5600.)  Although I hadn't installed it yet,
I am putting in a 2750-3000rpm stall converter too.  This should help my
launches dramatically vs. the stock converter, where I lug off the line until
it gets to about 2500-3000, where it pulls great right to the redline.

Luckily, there is an already done donor readily available for a song (lucky for
me as I can't dance.)  It consists of:  350 Chevrolet small-block bored .040
over, 4-bolt mains, forged chromoly crankshaft, forged flat-top pistions, 
Dart II street heads (2.02/1.60 valves), 10:1 compression, Edelbrock torker II
intake, etc, etc.

The question I have is about cams.  The cam I was running has the following
specs:
    Adv Duration         Cam Lift            Lobe Separation
      Int/Exh            Int/Exh                Int/Exh
      292/292           .320/.320               107/111

I really liked this cam, but have a few questions.  The engine I'm going to
be installing has the Comp Cams 292H in it right now, and so I have to choose
which one to use (as I've narrowed it down to these two, I'm buying a new cam
either way, but need to pick the one I want.)  The Comp Cams specs are:
    Adv Duration         Cam Lift            Lobe Separation
      Int/Exh            Int/Exh                Int/Exh
      292/292           .334/.334               110/110

I like the idle my car had, although vacuum at idle sucked so it's getting a 
vacuum can.  I was thinking of using 1.6 roller rockers on my old cam, bringing
the valve lift from .480 to .512.  If I go with the Comp Cams, I will leave
1.5 rockers with the .501 valve lift, although I could go to 1.6 for .532 lift.

I'm curious about the lobe separation.  I figure if I just change the engine,
using my old cam and these new mods, I'll get quite a kick in the ass compared
to the old engine, and it should be good for (hopefully!) high-12's with some
tuning.  (I'm actually going to purchase another cam like my old one, I don't
want to use the same exact cam.)

I have a question about the lobe separation.  From what I've been told, because
the lobe separation on my cam is far apart, it idles rougher, but kicks in a
little lower rpm than the Comp Cams cam.  Also, by increasing the lift I should
get a quicker jump in horsepower than without the increase.  Does this sound
right?  Also, I'm planning on trying a 750cfm vacuum secondaries carb for
starters, and bringing along my 650cfm double pumper (with Edelbrock power
plate for quick jet changes) if the 750cfm doesn't seem to be working (I'll try
them both and see which works better, obviously the 650 is much more tuneable.)
Any suggestions here?

I know if I install steeper gears (something like 4:10's or 4:56's) I'll get
better times too, but I want to keep the 3:73's until I install the TH700R4
(if I do it) and then I'll go for the gears (probably the 4:56's.)  So I figure
either of these cams are borderline for the 3:73's (according to the guys
at Comp Cams and Wolverine (they make the cam I have now.))

Also, as I want this to be the "velcro engine of the 90's"(tm)  :-), has 
anyone out there used any of the quick cam change timing covers?  Or the
two-piece valve covers that let you just pop the tops off for valve
adjustments?  I plan on getting both of these, so I'm interested in hearing
from those that have used them.

Well, thanks for the time if you got this far, any and all answers/replies
appreciated.  All flames, well, I'll read 'em anyway... :-) :-)

-- Steve

   Steven T McClure     ex-'84 GPZ 750 Turbo pilot       stm0@gte.com
GTE Government Systems         DoD #0425              
  Needham, Ma. 02194            /*  Insert standard disclaimer here. */
Beta software: 'beta than nothing, and that's usually all it is...

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  2 12:42:27 1993
Subject: Re: Holley mixture adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5502
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In my car (which is now dead for the time being) I installed an Edelbrock
Power Plate (formerly the Weber power plate, but Edelbrock bought it out.)

What you can do is replace the metering block in your carb with a dual-plate
setup, which allows you to change the jets without tearing the carb apart.
It also allows you to change the idle mixture and cruise mixture separately,
and adjust idle volume once you have mixture set.  

The cool thing is you can adjust fuel and AIR jets, so you can change the
volume on both circuits as well.  I used this in conjunction with a power-valve
blockoff kit from holley, and it works great.  Good throttle response, good
cruising and good idle are all attainable without major mods to the carb
itself, although getting the hang of tuning this puppy takes some time.

I also installed a monster 50cc front accellerator pump, which really helps
me out.  Of course I have been over-compensating for a stock torque converter,
so once I get a stall converter and new engine I have to re-do it all again
(I had to run it a little rich to compensate for this.)

Anyway, just a suggestion.  The plate runs about $100 from Summit, and you
can order the different jets you may need for about $4.00/set (but it comes
with a bunch of them, so you shouldn't need many...)

-- Steve

   Steven T McClure     ex-'84 GPZ 750 Turbo pilot       stm0@gte.com
GTE Government Systems         DoD #0425              
  Needham, Ma. 02194            /*  Insert standard disclaimer here. */
Beta software: 'beta than nothing, and that's usually all it is...

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  2 12:47:13 1993
Subject: Re: Nothing sounds like a good pair of glass packs.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5503
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> Grep wrote:
> >In alt.hotrod Bill writes:
> >>        If I am on the highway press some on the accelerator and then
> >>        back off completely you can actualy see the backfires at night
> >>        coming out of both tail pipes.
> >
> >Isn't such backfiring out the pipes usually related to an ignition
> >miss? 
> 
> Actually it caused by a rich condition - high rpm's followed by closing
> of the air(lifting the throttle) causes very high vacumm - which it turn
> sucks the gas from idle mixture screw - causing very rich mixture which
> cannot completely burn.  A quick cure is more vacumm advance, higher
> idle speed (don't let the throttle blades close all the way), or like
> Porche cut thte fuel to the engine.  An MSD ignition may also help.

Another thing that can cause popping in the exhaust on throttle
let-off is the diverter valve (if you have one) on the AIR pump
not working correctly.  There's a manifold (not ported) vacuum
line to the diverter valve.  On a sudden throttle closing the
vacuum goes up, the diverter valve opens, and the air which
would have gone into the exhaust is dumped to the air.

Of course, if you don't have an AIR pump then this isn't the
cause.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)

----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  2 15:32:07 1993
Subject: Holley rebuild kit question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5504
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a question regarding "Holley" rebuild kits. As anyone noticed quality
of some of the replacements parts (specifically the diaphragm parts) being
lesser than the OEM parts included with the carb. 
At one time, I was having a hell of a time trying to figure out a stumble
problem with the carb after a rebuild. I assumed all of the new "kit" parts 
were in working order. When I finally got down to inspecting everything 
individually, I discovered the diaphragm for the power valve was screwed up. 
The diaphragm parts in general appeared to be made of a softer material with 
questionable workmanship. I finally just put back my orginal power valve 
diaphragm all my carb returned to it's happy state. 
I love the carb, not happy about the rebuild kits.



Tim Brazil 
Oakland, CA



----------
Posted by: emory!ingres.com!brazil (Ya can't git dare from here)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  2 18:43:13 1993
Subject: Re:  Holley mixture adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5505
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


jws@mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) writes:
" Oh, for a proportional Holley power valve instead of the "on, off" ones
"they make now. (Forget about the 2-stage ones; they're expensive and also
"don't make the flow a healthy engine needs).

anyone else see a market opportunity here?
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of:	Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh (Sandwich Maker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  2 20:48:13 1993
Subject: RE: Couple 'a questions (and a war story)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5506
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>The question I have is about cams.  The cam I was running has the following
>specs:
>    Adv Duration         Cam Lift            Lobe Separation
>      Int/Exh            Int/Exh                Int/Exh
>      292/292           .320/.320               107/111
>
>I really liked this cam, but have a few questions.  The engine I'm going to
>be installing has the Comp Cams 292H in it right now, and so I have to choose
>which one to use (as I've narrowed it down to these two, I'm buying a new cam
>either way, but need to pick the one I want.)  The Comp Cams specs are:
>    Adv Duration         Cam Lift            Lobe Separation
>      Int/Exh            Int/Exh                Int/Exh
>      292/292           .334/.334               110/110
>
>I like the idle my car had, although vacuum at idle sucked so it's getting a 
>vacuum can.  I was thinking of using 1.6 roller rockers on my old cam, bringing
>the valve lift from .480 to .512.  If I go with the Comp Cams, I will leave
>1.5 rockers with the .501 valve lift, although I could go to 1.6 for .532 lift.
>
>I have a question about the lobe separation.  From what I've been told, because
>the lobe separation on my cam is far apart, it idles rougher, but kicks in a
>little lower rpm than the Comp Cams cam.  Also, by increasing the lift I should

Actually low separation means higher overlap (all else being equal).
This normally equates to rough idles.  Lobe separation seems to vary
between 104 to 114 (or was that 108 to 118 ?  I'll have to spec sheets
to work :-}).  I used to run a RAM AIR IV cam with 320 duration but 114
separation - it still idled and pulled good from 2500 rpm.

>get a quicker jump in horsepower than without the increase.  Does this sound
>right?  Also, I'm planning on trying a 750cfm vacuum secondaries carb for

Increase tthe rocker arm ratio increases your duration and lift duration
at .050 lift that is.  This will slightly up the rpm range of the cam
(very slightly).  It definitly will give you more horsepower.

>starters, and bringing along my 650cfm double pumper (with Edelbrock power
>plate for quick jet changes) if the 750cfm doesn't seem to be working (I'll try
>them both and see which works better, obviously the 650 is much more tuneable.)
>Any suggestions here?

The 650 should work fine for the torque converter (see below) I'd save
my money before buying another carb.

>I know if I install steeper gears (something like 4:10's or 4:56's) I'll get
>better times too, but I want to keep the 3:73's until I install the TH700R4
>(if I do it) and then I'll go for the gears (probably the 4:56's.)  So I figure
>either of these cams are borderline for the 3:73's (according to the guys
>at Comp Cams and Wolverine (they make the cam I have now.))

Did they take into account tire size?  You didn't mention which trans
you're running (I assume a TH350).  I think you have a 2.70:1 first gear
- not to mention a good torque converter.  If you want to test their
theory - install shorter tires and see how it responds.  4.56's are not
streetable and 4.11 are only marginally so.  If your going to build a
pure race car go for 4.88's or better.  Also the TH700 have something
like a 3.05:1 first gear do you need more?  How much traction do you
have?


>Also, as I want this to be the "velcro engine of the 90's"(tm)  :-), has 
>anyone out there used any of the quick cam change timing covers?  Or the
>two-piece valve covers that let you just pop the tops off for valve
>adjustments?  I plan on getting both of these, so I'm interested in hearing
>from those that have used them.

About the timing chain cover - you'll still need to remove the water
pump, intake manifold, lifters, distributer etc to get the cam out ( oh
yeah and tthe radiator ).  I'd weigh that againts the potential for oil
leaks.

You could run a roller cam.  lossening the push-rods will alow the
anti-rotation bars on some roller lifters to lift the lifter (does this
make sense?) partially outt of the bore - at least high enough to get
the cam out.  Gear drive would also help but itt brings along its
troubles.  It seems timing chains help keep a cam in place.  With a
gearr drive you'll need cam buttons to keep the cam from walking forward
and roller bearings to keep it from walking backwards.  All and all I
wouldn't put too much faith into the timing cover.  There are some
timing covers that allow you to remove the cover without dropping the
oil pan - now that might be worth it - it'll probable preventt leaks.

Good luck 
Dirk

PS what really broke?  Some late model pistons had very small skirts/
pin bosses - these could fatique and break at the darndest times - Red
line for a stock 350 (1981) is something like 5000 rpm.  Seems you
pushed it a little :-)


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun  3 09:57:03 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage Bits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5507
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

    Date: Mon, 31 May 1993 20:35 EDT
    From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)


    -> yet but they still withstand a quick sweep with the high pressure car
    -> wash wand.  Being able to hose the whole place down is VERY nice when
    -> you need a clean environment for painting or engine assembly.  JGD]

     Dang.  That's a good idea, John.  I don't have all the insulation in
    yet (it costs money, you know...) so I can go for the water-resistant
    sheetrock instead of the regular stuff when it's time.

I second that!  Clean in Place sounds like a good concept; plus it
discourages crannies which collect, not only dust, filings, sawdust
and general crap, but also lock tumblers, ignition screws, etc.
	...

     When it gets dirty, I can just fire up the old paint gun... 

Yep, when the water hose aint good enough, just crank up a different one!

    ----------
    Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 


  bruce
  miller@cam.nist.gov
  

----------
Posted by: Bruce R. Miller 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun  3 13:39:51 1993
Subject: V-6 cams,etc info needed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5508
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I'm in search for proformance parts for a V-6 engine.  Does anyone
know of any performance catalogs that handle a full line of V-6
performance parts.  Mainly for a 228 Chevy ( GM ) engine.  What
I'm looking for are the following.

	A. Cam shaft kit (280 to 290 degree range)
	B. Intake manifold simular to torquer but EGR
	C. Holley 500 cfm 2 bbl.
	D. Possible 9.5 compression pistons.

A single source would be helpfull but if not then multiple sources
would still be acceptable.

dennis

----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun  3 13:47:44 1993
Subject: Holley manuals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5509
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well I finally got my 70 stang running.  It seems to run a bit rich though.
I'm planning on getting one of the Holley tune up manuals and fittle with the
carb a bit as well as get to know it.  But which one?  I have a 600 w/ vacuum
secondaries.  Its on a 351W.  Anyone know which manual is the best or have
any comments?  I'm not really looking for one that has rebuilds, just tuning.
Thanks.
Tom McClendon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun  3 13:57:45 1993
Subject: RE: Couple 'a questions (and a war story)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5510
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well, I'm not quite sure what really has broken yet, I haven't taken the engine
apart to find out exactly what, but it sounded and looked just like the other
ones I've seen where the wristpin either snaps or wears then lets the rod go
*boing*.  But, I'll take some pictures and if I can get them scanned in mebbe
I'll post some gif's of the damage.

I know the red line on the '81 Z was 5000RPM, but that due to the stock cam.
I pushed it a few times, and found it rarely valve floated before 6000, and
I didn't really expect the engine to last (it was kinda an experiment before
the new engine was to go in) but it did last 40K miles of serious abuse (but
I did do the proper maintainance to it, I just drove it extremely hard. :-))

The car has no traction problems (except in the rain) but with the new setup
I predict a little tire spin (just a *little*.)  I've found the steepest gears
to be streetable (for me at least) are 4:10's, but I figure with the TH700R4's
overdrive 4:56's will be quite nice.  The TH350 in it now has a 2.72:1 first
gear vs. the TH700R4's 3.00:1 first gear.  That alone should help out, but
if it isn't enough then I'll toss in a new set of gears.  Oh, and yes, they
did account for the tire height (245/60R15's on 15x7 in rims.)  My truck
is getting 4:10's front and rear, and with the 36" tires, which makes for
decent cruising RPMs (around 2500 @ 60mph vs. 3100 @ 60mph in my Z.)

I already have a few 650cfm double pumpers around (but only 1 real good one,
the one on the car of course!) and a 750 vacuum secondaries too, so I figure
I'll try my 750 to see how it goes and then the 650, seeing as I already have
them.

As far as tearing the engine down, I have gotten changing the cam down to
around 4-5 hours start to finish, including the time it takes adjust the valves
and to pull the AC stuff off too (but that is coming out -- don't worry, the
guy before me had already drained the system, so it is empty, just in the way.
I was going to use it, but I don't plan on using it much anymore, so I'll take
it out and mothball it for now...)  The biggest problem I have is the timing
cover into the oil pan, so I am looking at the 2 or 3 piece timing covers that
have an un-boltable part over the cam so you can just slide the cam out.  That
is the only place I've had leaks, so that is what I'm looking to fix (besides
the rod poking through the oil pan - but that's just a minor concern... :-) )

-- Steve

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun  3 14:02:18 1993
Subject: gear vs tire
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5511
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I see alot of talk and comments on the list about gear ratios.
Everyone seems to feel that even 4:11's are not streetable.
Is this because they take an average tire height of 28 inches?
This has me concerned because I am having a Pro Street Rod
built and the combination being used is a small block Chevy,
TH350 and a Ford 9" w/5:13's. The tire size I'm running
is a pair of Mickey Thompsons 33x19.5 How should I expect this
thing to run on the street? I'm only looking for weekend use,
mostly around town.
 The guy who did the chassis work and set up the rear claims I
will need the gears to make the tires work.
What is the general feeling with this group?? Are the gears to low?

Thanks.
  Mark.

----------
Posted by: emory!resdgs1.er.usgs.gov!mfugazzo (Mark Fugazzotto)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 07:24:27 1993
Subject: Re:  V-6 cams,etc info needed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5512
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The V-6 Chevy is well supported in the aftermarket; ads for the big mail
order places have manifolds, etc. Many of the internal pieces are identical
to one of the SB Chevy V-8s - the 305 I think (could be wrong). You could
probably dig up a 4BBL intake and use a 390CFM baby Holley on it. Look in
the back of Car Cruft and see what's there. The V-6 is raced a lot and
perf parts are readily available.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 07:32:56 1993
Subject: Re: gear vs tire
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5513
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> I see alot of talk and comments on the list about gear ratios.
> Everyone seems to feel that even 4:11's are not streetable.
> Is this because they take an average tire height of 28 inches?

Probably.  I used to have a car with 4.11 gears - it turned about
3600 engine RPM at freeway speeds.  That's awfully fast to be
turning an engine when you only need about 20 HP on the road.
The engine makes a lot of noise, its parts get more wear because
of the high RPM, the accessories wear faster, and the top speed
may be limited to something less than what you want.  This car
had standard size street tires on it.

On a street car you probably want to turn about 3000 RPM at 60 MPH.
Adjust this up some if you have a short-stroke rev monster or
down some if you have a big displacement torque monster.  Make a
big adjustment if you have an overdrive transmission.

The guy who said that you need the gears for the tires is probably
right.  You don't want to lug the engine because your overall
ratio from engine to road is too low.  I hope you will be using
some kind of limited slip rear end.

I know a fellow who used to run 5.38 gears.  He had an overdrive
tranny and just left the overdrive on all the time for his around-
town driving.  When he wanted to race then he put the overdrive
into straight through mode.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)

----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 07:39:22 1993
Subject: Survey *PLEASE DO FOR ME*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5514
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



  I am doing one more survey, yet, different than the last one.
All you have to do is reply to this letter, or write to me through
EMail later at wassom@matt.ksu.ksu.edu and tell me what Model, Make,
and Year of the automobile(s) you drive and the size of engine(s) if you
know.  


       Thank you very much!  Keep a watch for the most popular cars
driven by people that reply on the alt.hotrod newsgroup.

      Bye!!!

              Brandon

----------
Posted by: emory!matt.ksu.ksu.edu!wassom (Clyde Wassom)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 07:42:56 1993
Subject: Rating result's (so far)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5515
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



  These are the result's so far of the rating's that other people have 
given me.  These automobiles were rated on a scale from one to ten.
Thank you everyone that has helped me get this information so far.


Ford Thunderbird           6.9
Pontiac Firebird           7.2
Chevy Camero               6
Ford Mustang               7
Chevy Corvette             7.9
Dodge Caravan              6.3
Ford Aerostar              4.3
Ford Festiva               2.9
Dodge Dakota               5
Ford F250                  5

P.S.  These are average ratings.  If you would like to rate these
10 automobiles, do it and send them back to me by replying or EMail
me at wassom@matt.ksu.ksu.edu.    Thanks!   Brandon

----------
Posted by: emory!matt.ksu.ksu.edu!wassom (Clyde Wassom)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 07:48:10 1993
Subject: Re: gear vs tire
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5516
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I see alot of talk and comments on the list about gear ratios.
>Everyone seems to feel that even 4:11's are not streetable.
>Is this because they take an average tire height of 28 inches?
>This has me concerned because I am having a Pro Street Rod
>built and the combination being used is a small block Chevy,
>TH350 and a Ford 9" w/5:13's. The tire size I'm running
>is a pair of Mickey Thompsons 33x19.5 How should I expect this
>thing to run on the street? I'm only looking for weekend use,
>mostly around town.

(5280*12*5.13)/(33*3.1416)=3135 revolutions per mile in direct drive (a little
more if you've got a torque converter).  That means that at 60mph, you'll be
turning 3135RPM.  What's your red line?  What do you want your top speed to be?
What do you want your cruising RPM to be?  (If you've built a reasonably high
revving engine, this combo shouldn't be too bad.  If your redline is 5000, you
won't be able to break 100mph.)

David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 07:57:04 1993
Subject: Re: V-6 cams,etc info needed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5517
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Recommend GM's own Performance parts catalog which is available for 
purchase through your favorite GM dealer.  Having just paged through my 
new Holley Catalog last night, I recommend it for your carb and manifolds, 
though all the major manifold guys make manifolds for your manner in addition
the GM. Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 07:57:41 1993
Subject: Re: Holley manuals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5518
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

HP and SA both publish manuals on Holley carbs.  As an addition to the 
HP book, the same author publishes a small version on the 4160 Holley
carb which is probably what you have.  If is is a square bowl, side float
vaccum secondary 4 barrel, it is more than likely a model 4160.  If you 
know the list number, I could tell you for sure.  Either of those books
will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about the carbs.  You 
can get them almost anywhere and also by mail order via your Holley Performance
parts catalog.  If you buy some of the original Holley technical pubs which
are also available in their performance catalog, you will see that the authors
of both the SA and HP books get their basic info from Holley's own books.
Any of them will work.  Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 08:01:05 1993
Subject: Re: gear vs tire
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5519
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

} Subject: gear vs tire
> I see alot of talk and comments on the list about gear ratios.
> Everyone seems to feel that even 4:11's are not streetable.
> Is this because they take an average tire height of 28 inches?
> This has me concerned because I am having a Pro Street Rod
> built and the combination being used is a small block Chevy,
> TH350 and a Ford 9" w/5:13's. The tire size I'm running
> is a pair of Mickey Thompsons 33x19.5 How should I expect this
> thing to run on the street? I'm only looking for weekend use,
> mostly around town.
>  The guy who did the chassis work and set up the rear claims I
> will need the gears to make the tires work.
> What is the general feeling with this group?? Are the gears to low?
> 
> Posted by: emory!resdgs1.er.usgs.gov!mfugazzo (Mark Fugazzotto)

I punched your numbers into my friendly Lotus program for MPH versus
RPM.  With your numbers you will be looking at 2900 rpm at the double
nickel and 7000 RPM will get you 134 mph.  How heavy a vehicle is 
your rod?  what are you doing to the motor?  Are you racing it or 
just cruzin?  You might consider a 700R4 or getting yourself a spare 
9 inch pumpkin to run when you don't want the performance of the low
gears. Cheers!
>-- End of excerpt from The Hotrod List



-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive(brattlan@speedway.net| ( Ford 302 Tri-Power  
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   | 4 spd, 9 inch )
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 09:58:18 1993
Subject: LPG & Supercharging 350 Chev
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5520
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi, I am new to this group but thought that if I could get any helpful
information, then it would be here.  I am from Australia (shock
horror) and I am in the process of putting a 010 SB in my VB Commodore
(a bit like you Camaro, just smaller) and as this particular model
came with fairly strict emission standards and I want a 350 Chev, I
had to opt for LPG. Now I am wondering if any of you had any
experience with this, I have heard that because LPG is prone to
backfires, it can destroy the supercharger.  Also is anyone aware of
what changes need to be done to building the engine?

So far we have replaced the heads valve seats with hardened ones,
running 2.02 stainless intake valves (was told we needed because of
LPG) and 1.70 mild steel exhaust. The Aluminuim bow ties got ported by
a mate of mine and got t to flow 550 HP (if I had a roller cam at 650
thou lift), the carbies are two airflow research carbies, they are not
the normal vacuum actuated type, but have needle and seats and are of
the mechanical variety. We had to go for two as one was only good for
about 300 needies.  Now, for the blower, this is where I am completely
out of my league, I want soemthing good, except that there is no way
the authorities would allow a 6/71 hanging out of the bonnet.  I read
that Weiand make good under-bonnet superchargers. Are there any else?
So far we have got the standard crank 10/10 and some chev pink rods
shot-peened and balanced. Supposedly they are good enough, a friend's
350 (bigger car, normal fuel 10:1 comp) rev's it out to 7 grand on a
regular basis and stnads up well.  I plan to do the same, so is it ok?

Due to the 114 octane rating of LPG, we can go a little higher on
comp., but jsut how high with a blower?..I need to buy forged pistons
to make the comp, and/or deck the block a little.

Lastly, has anyone had experience with the electric weiand water pump
(the whole sealed uni), it set me back enough, so I am hoping it works
well, oh, and for interest sake I am using a Turbo 400 and a ford
9-inch 3.55 LSD.  What sort of diff's are available in the states? How
strong are they?

I'd appreciate any comments and reply's either mailed directly to me
or via nn (to which I get access SOMETIMES)

----------
Posted by: emory!minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU!s902117 (Cyric)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 10:08:20 1993
Subject: Re: gear vs tire
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5521
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> From Mark F. 
> 
> I see alot of talk and comments on the list about gear ratios.
> Everyone seems to feel that even 4:11's are not streetable.
> Is this because they take an average tire height of 28 inches?
> This has me concerned because I am having a Pro Street Rod
> built and the combination being used is a small block Chevy,
> TH350 and a Ford 9" w/5:13's. The tire size I'm running
> is a pair of Mickey Thompsons 33x19.5 How should I expect this
> thing to run on the street? I'm only looking for weekend use,
> mostly around town.

With a small block chevy and big tires I consider the 5.13's conservative.
The built up small block will first start breathing at 6,000 RPM's
and with 5.13 gears and 33" tires woul give you 115 mph at 6,000 rpms.
For the street we all run a top speed of 55 mphs which would have
the engine at 2,900 rpm's.  Yes it would be purring away but not a problem
unless you want to drive accros the state in 90 degree temperatures.

>  The guy who did the chassis work and set up the rear claims I
> will need the gears to make the tires work.
> What is the general feeling with this group?? Are the gears to low?

Actually depending on how the engine was built I'd possibly even opt for
lower gears.  A well built small block could turn 8,000+ rpm's which will
give you 150+ mph's.  Unless you think you will turning 8.5 sec quarters
you won't have this engine wound out to do it's best.  Looking at your options
and not knowing your car weight this is what is available.

6.20	126 mph @ 8,000  10.3s
6.00	131 mph @ 8,000   9.9s
5.83	135 mph @ 8,000   9.6s
5.29	148 mph @ 8,000   8.7s
5.14	153		  8.4s
4.88	161		  8.0s
4.56	172		  7.5s
4.33    181		  7.1s
4.11	191		  6.8s
3.82	206		  6.3s
3.55	221		  5.8s
3.25	242		  5.3s
3.08	255		  5.0s

Well you know your horsepower, your weight, and what you want to get so
pick the rear axle that best gives you a realistic time.  anything higher
and you won't be wound out at the end of the 1/4.


dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 10:20:39 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-21*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5522
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE     TIME(Eastern)  NETWORK

Speed Racer                           6/5      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IMSA GTP, LIME ROCK (T)               6/5      3:00-5:00AM      ESPN
Shadetree Mechanic (CV joints & seals)6/5      10:30-11:00AM    TNN
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, LONG BEACH (T)       6/5      1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (L)                   6/5      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                     6/5      2:00-2:30PM      DISC
TOYOTA CELEBRITY, LONG BEACH (T)      6/5      2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
M.T. OFF-ROAD GRAND PRIX, PASADENA (T)6/5      2:30-3:30PM      ESPN
Truckin' USA (Show cars)              6/5      4:00-4:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today                            6/5      4:30-5:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek '93 (VW Golf III)           6/5      5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
Inside Winston Cup                    6/5      5:00-5:30PM      TNN
SpeedWeek                             6/5      7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             6/6      2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             6/6      3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          6/6      9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Cycle World                           6/6      9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Trucks & Tractor Power                6/6      9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Joe Nemechek)                6/6      10:00-10:30AM    TNN
This Week In NASCAR (Gibbs & Jarrett) 6/6      10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
NHRA Today                            6/6      10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    6/6      11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/6     11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    6/6     11:30AM-12:00PM   HTS*
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                6/6      12:00-4:30PM     TNN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (L)                6/6      1:00-3:00PM      ABC
Winners (Joe Nemechek)                6/6      4:30-5:00PM      TNN
NHRA, MOPAR NATIONALS, ENGLISHTOWN (T)6/6      5:00-6:00PM NBC (not all)
NHRA Today                            6/6      5:00-5:30PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MILWAUKEE (T)             6/6      5:00PM           TSN
Inside Winston Cup                    6/6      5:30-6:00PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (CV joints & seals)6/6      6:30-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/6      8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine                    6/6      11:00-11:30PM    TNN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (SD)               6/6     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
Trucks & Tractor Power                6/6     11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer                           6/6     11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA                          6/7      12:00-12:30AM    TNN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (T)                6/7      2:30AM           TSN
Glory Days                            6/7      3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/7      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           6/8      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           6/8      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           6/9      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             6/9      4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
Monster Trucks                        6/9      5:00-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/9      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Glory Days                            6/9      2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/10     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           6/10     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Cycle World                           6/10     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     6/10     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                6/10     3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
Monster Trucks                        6/10     4:30-5:00PM      ESPN
MotorWeek '93 (VW Golf III)           6/10     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           6/10     10:00-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR, Pocono (L)       6/10    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
AMA SUPERCROSS, PONTIAC (T)           6/11     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/11     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             6/11     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
M.T. OFF-ROAD GRAND PRIX, TEMPE (T)   6/11     3:30-4:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/11     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
This Week In NASCAR, Pocono (T)       6/11     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Speed Racer                           6/12     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, LONG BEACH (T)       6/12     3:30-4:30AM      ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

ARCA, POCONO (L)                      6/12     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            6/12     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MYRTLE BEACH (L)            6/12     5:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               6/13     12:30PM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (L)       6/13     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
IMSA, MID-OHIO (?)                    6/13     TBA              TBA
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (L)               6/13     3:00-5:30PM    ABC,TSN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     3:25-4:00PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MONTREAL (T)              6/13     7:00PM           TSN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T)6/13     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (SD)              6/13    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (T)       6/14     12:00-2:00AM     ESPN
IHRA SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)    6/19     1:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE (T) 6/19     3:30-5:30PM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/19     8:00PM           ESPN
LEMANS, START (?)                     6/19     TBA              TBA
RaceDay (L)                           6/20    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
LEMANS, FINISH (?)                    6/20     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             6/20     12:00PM          CBS
USAC & NASCAR, COPPER WORLD CLASSIC(T)6/20     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     3:25-3:30PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (T)     6/20     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/20     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (L)            6/26     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (T)                6/26     4:00-5:30PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MOSPORT (T)               6/26     5:00PM           TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/26     8:00PM           ESPN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
IMSA, WATKINS GLEN (?)                6/27     TBA              TBA
ASA, BRAINERD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY(L)6/27     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (L)                 6/27     4:00-6:30PM      ESPN
NHRA, HEARTLAND GRANDNATIONAL (L)     6/27     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27     9:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, DETROIT (T)            6/28     1:00AM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)              7/3      11:00AM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, PORTLAND (T)           7/3      8:00PM           ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (L)          7/3      9:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (L)                 7/4      7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
BUSCH GN, MILWAUKEE (?)               7/4      TBA              TBA
PIKES PEAK (?)                        7/4     (live coverage unlikely)
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (SD)                7/4     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IHRA NATIONALS, LIECESTER (T)         7/10     5:30PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/10     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SILVERSTONE, ENGLAND (L)   7/11     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
SCCA TRANS-AM, DES MOINES (L)         7/11     12:30PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, NEW HAMPSHIRE (L)        7/11     1:00PM           TNN
INDYCAR, CLEVELAND (L)                7/11     1:30-3:30PM    ABC,TSN
IMSA GTP, ROAD AMERICA (L)            7/11     4:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, HALIFAX (SD)              7/11     5:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, CLEV. OR F1, ENGLAND ?(SD)   7/11    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, TORONTO (?)               7/17     5:00-6:30PM      TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/17     8:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               7/18     12:00PM          TBS
INDYCAR, TORONTO (L) ?                7/18     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
INDYCAR, TORONTO (SD) ?               7/18     4:00-6:00PM      ABC
BUSCH GN, TALLADEGA (?)               7/24     TBA              TBA
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/24     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (L)    7/25     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, TALLADEGA (L)            7/25     12:15PM          CBS
PIKES PEAK (T)                        7/25     TBA              ESPN
IMSA, LAGUNA SECA (?)                 7/25     TBA              TBA
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (SD)   7/25    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
S.N.THUNDER (L)                       7/31     8:00PM           ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, SEARS POINT (T)        8/1      12:00PM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (L)                 8/1      2:00-5:00PM      ABC
ASA, HEARTLAND PARK RACEWAY,TOPEKA (L)8/1      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (SD)                8/1     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IMSA GTP, PORTLAND (T)                8/2      12:00AM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (T)                 8/2      2:30AM           TSN
BUSCH GN, INDIANAPOLIS (T)            8/7      8:00-10:00PM     ESPN
IHRA SUMMER NATIONALS, ATCO (T)       8/7      10:00PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, WATKINS GLEN (L)         8/8      1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LOUDON (L)                   8/8      3:30-5:30PM   ESPN,TSN
F ATLANTIC, NEW HAMPSHIRE (T)         8/9      7:30PM           TSN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out SRC. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for 
info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 19:42:17 1993
Subject: Re: Survey *PLEASE DO FOR ME*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5523
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi Brandon,

In answer to your survey: I drive (and love it) a 1980 Pontiac Grand Le
Mans with a 265CID (4.3 litre) V8.

I would also like to answer your other survey (Rating the cars) but I
find it difficult with it being so generic.  Meaning, I have a fondness
for a lot of the cars you listed, but they're each different models,
years etc.

How about compiling a list/questionnaire being more specific.

Thanx!!!

Steve (in Montgomery, AL)

[Unless I hear otherwise from the rest of the list, I have to ask again
that this discussion about stock production vehicles be taken to email
or the net.  It is against the charter of this list.  Thanks.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!mtgy.gtegsc.com!shanger  (Steven Hanger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 19:49:36 1993
Subject: Calculating Horsepower
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5524
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi again.  I'm wondering what the formulas are to calculate horsepower
given you know the weight, speed and 1/4 mile times a car runs.  Just
curious, as I'd like to calculate what my engine was making for HP's
(roughly, I'm sure it's not exact) before it blew.  Plus, then I can
use the formulas to figure other values for other vehicles I know 3 of
the 4 variables (or more if more are needed.)  Thanks!!!

-- Steve
stm0@gte.com

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 20:02:34 1993
Subject: Re: V-6 cams,etc info needed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5525
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com writes:
"I'm in search for proformance parts for a V-6 engine.  Does anyone
"know of any performance catalogs that handle a full line of V-6
"performance parts.  Mainly for a 228 Chevy ( GM ) engine.  What
"I'm looking for are the following.
"
"	A. Cam shaft kit (280 to 290 degree range)
"	B. Intake manifold simular to torquer but EGR
"	C. Holley 500 cfm 2 bbl.
"	D. Possible 9.5 compression pistons.

i can't help you much, but cam and manifold should also fit the
262/4.3 v6; pistons should also fit the 305.  this ought to let you
widen your search a little...
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of:	Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh (Sandwich Maker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun  4 20:09:46 1993
Subject: Re: LPG & Supercharging 350 Chev
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5526
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> had to opt for LPG. Now I am wondering if any of you had any
> experience with this, I have heard that because LPG is prone to
> backfires, it can destroy the supercharger.  Also is anyone aware of
> what changes need to be done to building the engine?
 
LPG is not prone to backfires, but like anything done in the
aftermarket, it is highly prone to poor installation and setup.
I'm not really familiar with propane conversions, but propane and CNG
use a lot of the same equipment, and most CNG carbs I've seen run
pretty lean out of the box.

> So far we have replaced the heads valve seats with hardened ones,
> running 2.02 stainless intake valves (was told we needed because of
> LPG) and 1.70 mild steel exhaust. The Aluminuim bow ties got ported by

Uh, someone got something backwards I think...  I was under the impression
that the exhaust valve needed to be stainless.  I run stainless for both
in my blown CNG 350.

> a mate of mine and got t to flow 550 HP (if I had a roller cam at 650
> thou lift), the carbies are two airflow research carbies, they are not
> the normal vacuum actuated type, but have needle and seats and are of
> the mechanical variety. We had to go for two as one was only good for
> about 300 needies.  Now, for the blower, this is where I am completely

I didn't know airflow reasearch made propane mixers.  I personally like the
OHG X-450 mixers, since they are fully tuneable.  You'd need two X-450's and
at least two X-2 convertors (I'm running a single X-450 and a pair
of X-2's for my CNG truck, and it just barely works).

> out of my league, I want soemthing good, except that there is no way
> the authorities would allow a 6/71 hanging out of the bonnet.  I read
> that Weiand make good under-bonnet superchargers. Are there any else?

A 6-71 won't work worth a damn with propane, anyway.  If you go with a roots
blower, you have to use one with teflon seals.  You'll also seriously
need to think about intercooling.  The termperature increase across the
blower running propane thru it will be almost double what it is running
gasoline through it (on my 350 with a Camden 144cid roots making 10psi
at 6000rpm, temperature increase across the blower was over 300F!).

> Due to the 114 octane rating of LPG, we can go a little higher on
> comp., but jsut how high with a blower?..I need to buy forged pistons
> to make the comp, and/or deck the block a little.
 
114 sounds high to me...  I thought propane was around 105 R+M/2.


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun  5 23:27:29 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5527
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: Calculating Horsepower
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: 
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1993 06:17:47 GMT
Lines: 19

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>Hi again.  I'm wondering what the formulas are to calculate horsepower
>given you know the weight, speed and 1/4 mile times a car runs.  Just
>curious, as I'd like to calculate what my engine was making for HP's
>(roughly, I'm sure it's not exact) before it blew.  Plus, then I can
>use the formulas to figure other values for other vehicles I know 3 of
>the 4 variables (or more if more are needed.)  Thanks!!!

These formulas were just posted to the Buick/GN Mailing list.  Bear in
mind that they are just a ball-park figure.

HP = WT / (ET/5.825)^3
         or
HP = (MPH/234)^3 * WT

--
                                 - Mike Golden -
                            mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu
                        "Keep honking... I'm reloading."

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun  7 05:43:08 1993
Subject: 294 angle plug Camel humps..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5528
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



     I have just picked up a set of 294 casting angel plug double hump
 fulie heads, these came with roller cam doulbe springs and anodised
alluminium retainers. Does anyone have any info on these heads,,,??

These heads are going on top of a 4 bolt main 350(+30thou) with Sealed
powre 10.5:1 pistons, Can anybody out there give me a cam suggestion
for a 1.6 ton car with a 3.25:1 LSD rear end, should i use the alloy
retainers(i have been told alloy retainers may fail and should be 
checked and replaced periodically), I do not have a roller cam so i
probally should not use the roller cam spings, or can i.
The manifold will be a VictorJ elderbrock or TPI if i can get hold of 
a TPI manifiold(There is one place in West Oz that sells this manifold,
i think it is ChevPower and they want $3500Aust for the manifold and
runners!) The car is to be a daily driver with the odd weekend at the
drag strip,the gear box is currently an TH350(stage2shiftkit,engine
mount destroyer) , it looks like the TH350 is staying for a while
considering the prices of 6 speeds.

Any help and suggestions greatly appreciated,
Justin...

*******************************************
1970 HT Holden Monaro Tudor
355 Chevy TH350 3.25 LSD 9".

----------
Posted by: emory!uniwa.uwa.edu.au!justin (Justin Zrinski)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun  7 19:40:20 1993
Subject: Re: Calculating Horsepower
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5529
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Steve wrote
> 
> Hi again.  I'm wondering what the formulas are to calculate horsepower
> given you know the weight, speed and 1/4 mile times a car runs.  Just
> curious, as I'd like to calculate what my engine was making for HP's
> (roughly, I'm sure it's not exact) before it blew.  Plus, then I can
> use the formulas to figure other values for other vehicles I know 3 of
> the 4 variables (or more if more are needed.)  Thanks!!!
> 
Well Steve I remember seeing these formula's in my old physics book and
trying to use them.  They really came up[ with some faticious horsepower 
ratings.  Like a 460HP vehicle at 1800 lbs was supose to give 6 sec 1/4 miles.
These formulas are based on a flat horsepower curve so in order for them to be
correct you need a engine that produces 100 % horsepower at 100 rpm's, 1,000
rpms, 5,000 rpms etc.  Also it puts gearing at optimum at all time etc..

There are some non scientific ones that are a little better mainly
((hp/weight)1200)= top speed in a quarter.  and 1300/top speed = E.T..
However these also are very nonedependable.  They could give you are rough 
comparison though if everything was ideal.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun  7 19:48:29 1993
Subject: Re:  Calculating Horsepower
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5530
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Steve writes:
-> 
-> Hi again.  I'm wondering what the formulas are to calculate horsepower
-> given you know the weight, speed and 1/4 mile times a car runs.  Just
-> curious, as I'd like to calculate what my engine was making for HP's
-> (roughly, I'm sure it's not exact) before it blew.  Plus, then I can
-> use the formulas to figure other values for other vehicles I know 3 of
-> the 4 variables (or more if more are needed.)  Thanks!!!
-> 
-> -- Steve
-> stm0@gte.com
-> 
-> ----------
-> Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
->  
-> 

Here they are:

  HP = 200 * ( weight / ET**3 )

  SPEED = 10 + ( 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3 )

George Kulp

----------
Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun  7 19:57:34 1993
Subject: Getting more from an [almost] stock 5.0L Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5531
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a '91 LX Hatchback 5.0-Liter Mustang with AOD trans.  So far I've put 
in a K&N Air Filter, 2-Chamber Flowmasters, and an ADS chip (--they _claim_ 
15-30 horsepower more from the chip, but I didn't really notice any 
difference after installation).  Other than those three mods, the car is 
completely stock, and has 60000 miles on it (daily driver).

I haven't actually run this car at a track yet, but I would guess I'm 
running [sea level] ETs of about 15.1 to 15.4.

I'm interested in finding out what I can do to get it into the mid to high 
14s (14.7 or so).  Anybody have any ideas as to what I change next?  Money's 
limited...I only have $400-500 to spend and am looking to make it go as far 
as possible.  I realize that's an awful small amount of money to aim for 
14.7s with, but times are rough and the wife'll only let me spend that much.

A number of things have been suggested to me:
      
                 Pulleys
                 Headers
                 Rear-end gears

This is a California (LA area) car, and I'd like to try and keep it as 
street legal as I can.

Please email me with whatever information you may have regarding what I 
should do next.

Thank you for your time.

-Cougar
danielne@symantec.com


+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| I think I think, therefore, I think I am, I think!   - Unknown             |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+
| Cougar (Dan Neuwirth)       | All  views expressed  in this message are my |
|                             | own,  and  are  not  necessarily   those  of |
| Symantec Peter Norton Group | Symantec Peter Norton Group.                 |
| Engineering Department      |                                              |
| 2500 Broadway Suite 200     |                                              |
| Santa Monica, Ca. 90404     |                                              |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------------------+

----------
Posted by: emory!symantec.com!danielne (Cougar)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  8 09:43:36 1993
Subject: re: Calculating horsepower.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5532
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Steve writes:
>->
>-> Hi again.  I'm wondering what the formulas are to calculate horsepower
>-> given you know the weight, speed and 1/4 mile times a car runs.  Just
>-> curious, as I'd like to calculate what my engine was making for HP's
>-> (roughly, I'm sure it's not exact) before it blew.  Plus, then I can
>-> use the formulas to figure other values for other vehicles I know 3 of
>-> the 4 variables (or more if more are needed.)  Thanks!!!
>->
>-> -- Steve
>-> stm0@gte.com
>-> Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)

George Kulp writes:
>Here they are:
>  HP = 200 * ( weight / ET**3 )
>  SPEED = 10 + ( 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3 )
>Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek

I had read that the speed you went through the lights 
was a more accurate representation of what kind of 
power the car makes, as the ET maybe traction limited.
Are there formulas using speed instead of ET?  Thanks.

Scott Hung

----------
Posted by: hung 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  8 14:39:16 1993
Subject: Re:  Calculating Horsepower
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5533
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

George writes:
>Steve writes:
>-> 
>-> Hi again.  I'm wondering what the formulas are to calculate horsepower
>-> given you know the weight, speed and 1/4 mile times a car runs.  Just
>-> curious, as I'd like to calculate what my engine was making for HP's
>-> (roughly, I'm sure it's not exact) before it blew.  Plus, then I can
>-> use the formulas to figure other values for other vehicles I know 3 of
>-> the 4 variables (or more if more are needed.)  Thanks!!!
>-> 
>-> -- Steve
>-> stm0@gte.com
>-> 
>-> ----------
>-> Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
>->  
>-> 
>
>Here they are:
>
>  HP = 200 * ( weight / ET**3 )
>
>  SPEED = 10 + ( 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3 )
>
>George Kulp

Car and Driver uses:

SPEED = 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3

Some others have said:

SPEED =  231 * ( HP / weight )**1/3

Remember these equations don't take into account aerodynamic drag. For 
example - suppose you used a drag shut all the way down the track?  HP would
be the same. Weight would be the same.  Yet speed would be vastly reduced.
The bottom line is the correction factor (ie 221 etc) is based on real world 
results with different types of cars.  Car and Driver's equation (not that 
they own it or anything) works well for stock HP cars ie Mustang 5.0

SPEED = 221 * ( 210 / 3100 ) **1/3

SPEED = 90.09mph.....ish this checks out with my wife's mustang

using 231

SPEED = 94 mph

BTW adding 10 to the first equation might be nice but the mustang could never
do 100 except with modifications.

Try this instead - take your car to the track.  Weigh the car.  Make a few 
runs and take a guess at your HP.  Be honest - or dishonest it doesn't 
matter.  Come up with your own correction factor.  Now you'll be able to 
judge how much you'll gain by making changes such as Nitros or fiberglass 
parts

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  8 14:43:56 1993
Subject: Re: Getting more from an [almost] stock 5.0L Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5534
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Jun 7, 19:46, The Hotrod List wrote:
> I'm interested in finding out what I can do to get it into the mid to high
> 14s (14.7 or so).  Anybody have any ideas as to what I change next?  Money's
> limited...I only have $400-500 to spend and am looking to make it go as far
> as possible.  I realize that's an awful small amount of money to aim for
> 14.7s with, but times are rough and the wife'll only let me spend that much.
>

The rear end gears, for sure. I didn't find the pulleys made that much
difference.  The headers only helped a lot when I got the rest
of the exhaust right.

-Bob




-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun  8 14:48:26 1993
Subject: re: Calculating horsepower.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5535
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
|> >Steve writes:
|> >->
|> >-> Hi again.  I'm wondering what the formulas are to calculate horsepower
|> >-> given you know the weight, speed and 1/4 mile times a car runs.  Just
|> >-> curious, as I'd like to calculate what my engine was making for HP's
|> >-> (roughly, I'm sure it's not exact) before it blew.  Plus, then I can
|> >-> use the formulas to figure other values for other vehicles I know 3 of
|> >-> the 4 variables (or more if more are needed.)  Thanks!!!
|> >->
|> >-> -- Steve
|> >-> stm0@gte.com
|> >-> Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
|> 
|> George Kulp writes:
|> >Here they are:
|> >  HP = 200 * ( weight / ET**3 )
|> >  SPEED = 10 + ( 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3 )
|> >Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
|> 
|> I had read that the speed you went through the lights 
|> was a more accurate representation of what kind of 
|> power the car makes, as the ET maybe traction limited.
|> Are there formulas using speed instead of ET?  Thanks.
|> 
|> Scott Hung
|> 
|> ----------
|> Posted by: hung 

Patrick Hale's Quarter and Quarter Jr programs are fairly accurate
approximations.  He also has provided some equations for guesstimating
HP, ET, & MPH that were derived empiracally.

         ____________
MPH = \3/ (HP/Weight) * 234      -or-    HP = (mph/234)^3 * Weight
       V
         ____________
ET  = \3/ (Weight/HP) * 5.825    -or-    HP = (5.825/ET)^3 * Weight
       V

$0.02

Ericy

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  9 07:46:03 1993
Subject: re: Calculating horsepower.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5536
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Scott writes:
-> 
-> >Steve writes:
-> >->
-> >-> Hi again.  I'm wondering what the formulas are to calculate horsepower
-> >-> given you know the weight, speed and 1/4 mile times a car runs.  Just
-> >-> curious, as I'd like to calculate what my engine was making for HP's
-> >-> (roughly, I'm sure it's not exact) before it blew.  Plus, then I can
-> >-> use the formulas to figure other values for other vehicles I know 3 of
-> >-> the 4 variables (or more if more are needed.)  Thanks!!!
-> >->
-> >-> -- Steve
-> >-> stm0@gte.com
-> >-> Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
-> 
-> George Kulp writes:
-> >Here they are:
-> >  HP = 200 * ( weight / ET**3 )
-> >  SPEED = 10 + ( 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3 )
-> >Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
-> 
-> I had read that the speed you went through the lights 
-> was a more accurate representation of what kind of 
-> power the car makes, as the ET maybe traction limited.
-> Are there formulas using speed instead of ET?  Thanks.
-> 
-> Scott Hung
-> 
-> 
I have also read that speed is determined mostly by HP, whereas
ET is determined mostly by chassis setup.

A launch with no wheelspin will result in a relatively fast 60 foot
time and vice versa.  However, in both cases, by the time you reach
the end of the 1/4 mile, your speed is changing so slowly with time
that even though your ETs differ by, say, a few tenths, your speed
will be about the same.

I'm not sure of the origin of these formulas, but they do seem
fairly accurate.  However, you're right, they do assume a good
chassis setup.

As for "formulas using speed instead of ET", I'm not aware of any,
perhaps others are.

George Kulp

----------
Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  9 07:57:14 1993
Subject: KKOA meet
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5537
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Anyone planning to attend the Kustom Kemps of America Sledscene East
meet in Gettysburg (actually Biglerville) Pa this weekend?  I haven't
been to this one in a few years. So I am looking forward it. KKOA always
puts on a good show, relaxing and fun.

I missed the NSRA Nats East in York, Pa last weekend, but saw a steady
stream of streetrods on my way back from a trip to New York. Nice iron.

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  9 12:38:43 1993
Subject: The Subject Of Power Pullies(sp?)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5538
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have seen a bit of information lately on power pullys.  They seem the 
helpfull theoretically, but how effective are they in the real world.    
Also, for those who know or have used them, how do they effect 
alternator/generator output and the function of the water pump?

Thanks again,

SJRD

----------
Posted by: emory!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!bphdarcy (Sean J. Roc D'Arcy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  9 12:43:42 1993
Subject: Re:  Calculating Horsepower
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5539
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 Various individuals wrote:
> >
> >Here they are:
> >
> >  HP = 200 * ( weight / ET**3 )
> >
> >  SPEED = 10 + ( 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3 )
> >
> >George Kulp
> 
> Car and Driver uses:
> 
> SPEED = 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3
> 
> Some others have said:
> 
> SPEED =  231 * ( HP / weight )**1/3
> 
 Well any such factoring is unrealistic because it makes an assumption
that the maximium amount of horsepower was used in the 1/4 mile and the
vehicle hit it's top speed in the 1/4.

An example of appling this formula would be tword an older car I had
and did a lot of rear axle changes with.

When it had an original 3.08 axle my et's were around 16.2 which relates
to  200(3200/ 16.2**3) => or 150.53 hp.

Later I changed to 4.11 gears with no other modifications and ran 14.9's
200(3200/14.9**3)=> 193.47 hp.

After realizing that I still was just getting into 4th gear at the traps
I made a final axle change to 5.23's resulting in et's of 14.0's
200(3200/14.0**3)=> 233.24 hp

Well afterwards I changed som of the engine parts (cam, and heads were 
reworked which got me to an all time low et's of 13.6"s
200(3200/13.6**3) => 254.24 hp.

So as you can see if there is any truth to these formulas then rear axle ration
will have a great effect on horse power.

Oh and for you trap speed enthusiasts here is what they were.

et		trap speed 	theo. top speed
16.2		71		158
14.9		90		119
14.0		94		94
13.6		98		98

note the difference theo top speed between 14.0 and 13.6 is because with the
engine modifications the top rpm's changed from about 6,200 to 6,500.

dennis

> 
> 
> 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun  9 15:14:43 1993
Subject: Re: Calculating horsepower.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5540
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  Scott Hung writes:

>George Kulp writes:
>>Here they are:
>>  HP = 200 * ( weight / ET**3 )
>>  SPEED = 10 + ( 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3 )
>>Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek

>I had read that the speed you went through the lights 
>was a more accurate representation of what kind of 
>power the car makes, as the ET maybe traction limited.
>Are there formulas using speed instead of ET?  Thanks.

Here's a formula using speed that I recently saw posted
to this very group:

  SPEED = 10 + ( 221 * ( HP / weight )**1/3 )

Some straightforward math can rearrange the terms so that
the equation is of the form HP = blah blah blah, if that
is what you need.

mjb.


-- 
"Great ale makes great times.  Great times make great friends.
 Great friends make great neighborhoods.  Great neighborhoods make
 great cities.  Great cities make great nations.  Great nations make
 a great world.  Therefore, the greatness of the world depends on ale."

----------
Posted by: emory!triumph.cs.utah.edu!mjb (Mark J Bradakis)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 10 10:10:14 1993
Subject: Rod Run Announcement
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5541
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Foothills Street Rod Association
1993 Fun Run
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
August 20 - 23 1993
$1000 grand prize to be drawn from all entrants present at Saturday banquet
pre-registration prize TH350 transmission
Poker run , trade show , swap meet
Friday night BBQ
Saturday poker run , Kids games , Surprize theme banquet
Sunday morning breakfast
to register please supply
Name:
Spouse:
Address:
City:
Prov/State:
Postal/Zip Code:
Telephone:
Childrens Names and ages:
Make of Car:
Year:(This is a pre-54 or special invitation Run)
Model:
Club Affiliation:
Entry Fee : Pre-registration - $35.00 before July 23, 1993
                               $40.00 after July 23, 1993
            (includes 2 adults and children 16 years and under)
Car Guests: $15.00 per Person (not eligible for door prizes)
Dance Only Tickets: $10.00 per person (not eligible for door prizes)
Door Prizes Awarded By Car Number
Send to: Barry Klassen
         136 Woodford Close S.W.
         Calgary, AB, Canada
         T2W 6E2
         Phone (403) 281-1222
or Email mdsiewer@acs.ucalgary.ca









----------
Posted by: Michael Donald Siewert 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 10 10:22:16 1993
Subject: Re: The Subject Of Power Pullies(sp?)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5542
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Sean writes:
> I have seen a bit of information lately on power pullys.  They seem the 
> helpfull theoretically, but how effective are they in the real world.    

The best discussion that I have heard regarding pulleys of a different
diameter comes from JBA.  They recommend that you don't change pulley
sizes unless you change the rear end ratio or the tire size.  Even
then they suggest using just enough pulley change to get the RPM of the
accessories back to what it was originally at a given road RPM.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 10 19:35:52 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5543
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Subject:  carb questions

greetings:

  i have some basic carb questions for you.  even though this is on my
daily driver, and the info will be most useful when my nova gets to the
engine-building stage (still doing bodywork).  i prefer to do my
learning on a machine i don't mind hurting (can you really *hurt* that
old mopar slant 6? :)

  the carb has mechanical choke, is a two bbl in a side-by-side
configuration, with an adjusting screw at the bottom of each bbl.
other than the idle speed screws, there appear to be no other external
adjustments possible.  the carb is an oem replacement carb for a 77
dodge aspen w/ the 225 slant six.

  the problem: recently (and fairly abruptly) the engine began pinging
under load (hills, accelerating, passing...) when the engine is warm,
but not during cruising or when cold.

  here are my guesses as to what's going on and why it's having
problems, divided into major categories: (feel free to comment/correct
as needed)

-timing related
  distributor:  i have had no difficulty getting the engine 'tuned' to
proper rpm range with the proper number of degrees (and it stays
there), so i am going on the assumption that it's still working fine.
  timing chain: the timing light doesn't show the timing mark to be
'jumping' around, nor have i had any (additional) valve train noise, so
i am not inclined to believe this to be a problem (also, i've heard
that when this starts to fail, that the problems are usually much more
severe than pinging...)
  mechanical advance: since the vehicle operates fine "at speed", i'm
assuming it's ok.
  vacuum advance: it seems to be fine (pop the cap, suck on the line &
it moves, somewhere around 1/8 rotation (perhaps a bit less), about 15
to 20 degrees).

-mixture related
  accelerator pump: since there's no bogging on acceleration, and since
there are no problems when the engine is cold, i'm not inclined to
believe there is a problem with it. (do accelerator pump problems
manifest themselves as anything besides the classic 'gasp for gas'?) 
  idle circuit mixture: since it idles just fine, i'm inclined to
assume that it is not the problem.
  secondary mix: ???  it's a 2 bbl in a side-by-side configuration (ie
both controlled by the same butterfly, not separate primary and
secondary bbl), so how can one tell what their setting/condition might
be and how does one adjust them?
  vacuum leak: could be, there are lots of old vac lines snaked all
over the place... (i do need to get a vacuum-meter sometime soon....)
also, how would vac leaks affect the vac advance on the distributor?
  fuel delivery: could be...  i'm assuming something like a partially
clogged filter or blocked jet (or tired fuel pump) could provide enough
fuel for idle, but prevent the required flow for high demand, which
would lean out the mix and lead to detonation.

-ignition related:
  wires: they are fairly new.  what could happen to them to cause this
kind of problem?  too much resistance would lead to a lower spark and
poor combustion, but would that cause pinging?  how much resistance is
ok/too much?
  plugs: could be fouled.  it has been consuming minor amounts of oil.
  electronic ignition module:  don't know, but i've heard they just
don't fail part-way, and tend to out live most vehicles.
  distributor: no sign of play (not loose, rotation-wise), wiper
appears to be ok, the timing doesn't 'dance' and stays where i set it,
and the cap appears to be ok (no signs of scoring, cracks, scorching,
greasy fingerprints (well, not on the inside..), or arcing on or in it.
  coil: seems to give a nice bright spark when the coil wire is aimed
at the block.  i'm assuming it's ok.

-cylinder condition:
  carbon buildup: possible, as i have been burning a bit of oil (no
smoke screens, just a puff or two at startup).  how could one remove
such deposits (w/o stripping off the heads)?  how to prevent
recurrence?  would raising the temperature of the plugs would help
prevent/reduce buildup problems?  is it possible to go too hot, that is
keep using hotter plugs to try to burn the oil, and end up with a plug
that is too hot for the engine (ie too hot (how do you tell?) but still
covered with oil or buildup)?  i'm assuming that i might have a carbon
formation that begins it's own flame front (once it has soaked up
enough heat).

-something else?  have i missed anything else that could/should be
checked?  any hints or ideas are welcome (as well as hints/pointers for
good books on some of the more detailed explanations).

  sorry this turned out to be so long, but i wanted to cover all the
bases.  and thanks in advance...

later,
kc

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 11 12:41:31 1993
Subject: Carb on slant-6 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5544
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 I don't know what type this Mopar carb is, but there must be some form of
low-vacuum/high-load enrichment circuit (aka power valve) and it sounds like
it's not helping out. However, it could also be that the main circuit is
too lean but the idle mix and accelerator pump mask it over most of your
driving profile. Could even be that your fuel system is delivery-limited
(crusty filter, jets restricted by crud or varnish, pinched fuel line, etc.).

 I'd start with inspecting the fuel lines and replacing the filter. If the
only filter is one of those sintered bronze ones internal to the carb inlet,
it's almost guaranteed to be nasty. An external see-through paper filter is
my preference (for low fuel system pressures and small fuel line diameters
anyway). 

 After that's over with and if things persist I'd have the top off the carb
and look for Easter eggs, lawn clippings (which I actually found once),
sediment and goo (every time). Whilst you're in, might as well do a quickie
rebuild, replacing all the rubber and cleaning things out.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 11 12:48:42 1993
Subject: Clearance question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5545
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi again.  I have another question (or two) for the list: what is the eaisest
way to measure valve to piston clearance?  I usually have the machine shop do
it at the time the engine is being assembled, but as I am going to be 
installing a new cam in the engine I am getting for my car, I want to check
the clearance myself before I put the cam in and dent the pistons. (that
would be bad.)  

Any suggestions on easy ways to do this (or hard ways that I can still do?)

One more question about lobe centers on camshafts (I know, this is getting
old, but I figure better safe than sorry.)  From what I can tell, a higher
lobe centerline (say, 114 vs. 107) is better for the idle, vaccum and such,
but you lose a little at the top end, correct?  Will the higher lobe 
centerline flatten out the HP curve (more bottom-end, less top end) as well,
or just decrease the top end while improving idle?  

Thanks!!

-- Steve
stm0@gte.com


----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 11 12:55:09 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-22*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5546
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE     TIME(Eastern)  NETWORK

This Week In NASCAR, Pocono (T)       6/11     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Speed Racer                           6/12     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, LONG BEACH (T)       6/12     3:30-4:30AM      ESPN
Monster Trucks                        6/12     5:00-5:30AM      ESPN
Shadetree Mechanic (headlights)       6/12     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
NASCAR, CEDAR RIDGE 150, POCONO (L?)  6/12     ?                HTS*
SpeedWeek                             6/12     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          6/12     2:00-2:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today                            6/12     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    6/12     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            6/12     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
NASCAR, CEDAR RIDGE 150, POCONO (SD)  6/12     4:30-6:00PM      HTS*
BUSCH GN, MYRTLE BEACH (L)            6/12     5:00-7:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek '93 (Camry SE)              6/12     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
ARCA 150, POCONO (SD)                 6/12     5:30-7:00PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar, Milwaukee)   6/13     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             6/13     3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
HYDROPLANE RACING, DALLAS (T)         6/13     4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
Monster Trucks                        6/13     5:00-5:30AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (IndyCar, Milwaukee)   6/13     5:30-6:00AM      ESPN
Glory Days                            6/13     6:00-6:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          6/13     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Cycle World                           6/13     9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Trucks & Tractor Power                6/13     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Geoff Brabham)               6/13     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
Motor Sports Hour                     6/13     10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
NHRA Today                            6/13     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    6/13     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    6/13    11:30AM-12:00PM   HTS*
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               6/13     12:30-5:00PM     ESPN
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (L)       6/13     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
COPPER WORLD CLASSIC, PHOENIX (T)     6/13     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (L)               6/13     3:00-5:30PM    ABC,TSN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     3:25-3:30PM      TNN
Winners (Geoff Brabham)               6/13     3:30-4:00PM      TNN
SAAB PRO, LIME ROCK (T)               6/13     5:00-5:30PM      ESPN
NHRA Today                            6/13     5:00-5:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    6/13     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (headlights)       6/13     6:30-7:00PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MONTREAL (T)              6/13     7:00PM           TSN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T)6/13     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine                    6/13     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks & Tractor Power                6/13    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (SD)              6/13    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
Speed Racer                           6/13    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (T)       6/14     12:00-2:00AM     ESPN
Truckin' USA                          6/14     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
Speed Racer                           6/14     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
NASCAR, CEDAR RIDGE 150, POCONO (T)   6/14     12:00-1:30PM     HTS*
This Week On Pit Road                 6/14     5:00-5:30PM      HTS*
Checkered Flag (F1, Montreal)         6/14     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
M.T. OFF-ROAD GP, PASADENA (T)        6/15     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/15     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (Winston Cup, Pocono)  6/15     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (T)               6/15     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/15     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (T)               6/15     1:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/16     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
ARCA 150, POCONO (T)                  6/16     3:30-5:00AM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             6/16     5:00-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/16     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           6/17     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (T)       6/17     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/17     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Cycle World                           6/17     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     6/17     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                6/17     3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
MIDGET WORLD CHALLENGE, PHOENIX (T)   6/17     7:30-8:30PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (Camry SE)              6/17     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           6/17     8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     6/17     9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                6/17     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR, Ann Arbor (L)    6/17    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
AMA SUPERCROSS, INDIANAPOLIS (T)      6/18     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/18     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             6/18     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/18     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
This Week In NASCAR, Ann Arbor (T)    6/18     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Checkered Flag (IndyCar, Detroit)     6/18     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/19     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             6/19     3:30-4:00AM      ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

IHRA SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)    6/19     1:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE (T) 6/19     3:30-5:30PM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/19     8:00PM           ESPN
LEMANS, START (L)                     6/19     9:00AM           HTS*
RaceDay (L)                           6/20    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
LEMANS, FINISH (L)                    6/20     8:00AM           HTS*
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             6/20     12:00PM          CBS
USAC & NASCAR, COPPER WORLD CLASSIC(T)6/20     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     3:25-3:30PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (T)     6/20     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/20     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (L)            6/26     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (T)                6/26     4:00-5:30PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MOSPORT (T)               6/26     5:00PM           TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/26     8:00PM           ESPN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
IMSA, WATKINS GLEN (?)                6/27     TBA              TBA
ASA, BRAINERD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY(L)6/27     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (L)                 6/27     4:00-6:30PM      ESPN
NHRA, HEARTLAND GRANDNATIONAL (L)     6/27     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27     9:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, DETROIT (T)            6/28     1:00AM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)              7/3      11:00AM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, PORTLAND (T)           7/3      8:00PM           ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (L)          7/3      9:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (L)                 7/4      7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
BUSCH GN, MILWAUKEE (?)               7/4      TBA              TBA
PIKES PEAK (?)                        7/4     (live coverage unlikely)
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (SD)                7/4     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IHRA NATIONALS, LIECESTER (T)         7/10     5:30PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/10     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SILVERSTONE, ENGLAND (L)   7/11     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
SCCA TRANS-AM, DES MOINES (L)         7/11     12:30PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, NEW HAMPSHIRE (L)        7/11     1:00PM           TNN
INDYCAR, CLEVELAND (L)                7/11     1:30-3:30PM    ABC,TSN
IMSA GTP, ROAD AMERICA (L)            7/11     4:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, HALIFAX (SD)              7/11     5:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, CLEV. OR F1, ENGLAND ?(SD)   7/11    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, TORONTO (?)               7/17     5:00-6:30PM      TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/17     8:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               7/18     12:00PM          TBS
INDYCAR, TORONTO (L) ?                7/18     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
INDYCAR, TORONTO (SD) ?               7/18     4:00-6:00PM      ABC
BUSCH GN, TALLADEGA (?)               7/24     TBA              TBA
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/24     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (L)    7/25     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, TALLADEGA (L)            7/25     12:15PM          CBS
PIKES PEAK (T)                        7/25     TBA              ESPN
IMSA, LAGUNA SECA (?)                 7/25     TBA              TBA
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (SD)   7/25    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
S.N.THUNDER (L)                       7/31     8:00PM           ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, SEARS POINT (T)        8/1      12:00PM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (L)                 8/1      2:00-5:00PM      ABC
ASA, HEARTLAND PARK RACEWAY,TOPEKA (L)8/1      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (SD)                8/1     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IMSA GTP, PORTLAND (T)                8/2      12:00AM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (T)                 8/2      2:30AM           TSN
BUSCH GN, INDIANAPOLIS (T)            8/7      8:00-10:00PM     ESPN
IHRA SUMMER NATIONALS, ATCO (T)       8/7      10:00PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, WATKINS GLEN (L)         8/8      1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LOUDON (L)                   8/8      3:30-5:30PM   ESPN,TSN
F ATLANTIC, NEW HAMPSHIRE (T)         8/9      7:30PM           TSN
BUSCH GN, MICHIGAN (L)                8/14     1:00PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        8/14     8:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LOUDON (SD)                  8/14    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, BUDAPEST, HUNGARY (L)      8/15     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             8/15     12:30PM          ESPN
NHRA NATIONALS, SONOMA (T)            8/15     3:30PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, TROIS RIVIERES (L)        8/15     5:00PM           TSN
FORMULA 1, BUDAPEST, HUNGARY (SD)     8/15    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out SRC. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for 
info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 11 14:41:23 1993
Subject: Re: KKOA meet
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5547
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


  I hope to someday attend one of these KKOA Events.  I just came back
  from the Duke City Rodders Run in Albq NM and there were alot of sharp
  Street Rods.  This was the first year they opened it to Customs , but
  there were only 5.

  George (1950 Merc Chopped and Kustomized) Castaneda

----------
Posted by: emory!col.hp.com!gc4403 (hpctdrp)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 11 18:32:38 1993
Subject: Re:  Clearance question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5548
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-> 
-> Hi again.  I have another question (or two) for the list: what is the eaisest
-> way to measure valve to piston clearance?  I usually have the machine shop do
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hi Steve,

Valve to piston clearances:

Sometimes a shop manual will specify that at a crankshaft rotation
of X degrees ATDC, the Y valve should have a minimum valve to piston
clearance of Z inches.  The following method works for this case.
1.  Install new cam with correct cam to crank timing.
2.  Rotate reciprocating assy so that cylinder #1 valves are closed.
3.  Install head on engine.
4.  Install just two pushrods/rockers/whatever for cylinder #1.
5.  Rotate reciprocating assy so that crankshaft is at specified
    position.  The specified valve will be partially/fully open.
6.  Mount dial indicator on valve and set to zero.
7.  Push on valve until it contacts piston top.  The travel shown
    by the dial indicator is the piston to valve clearance.
8.  If the clearance is very close to the limit, it's a good idea to
    measure the rest of the piston to valve clearances; otherwise,
    you are done with this measurement.

If the above does not apply, another method, which was outlined in
a recent Hot Rod Magazine, is as follows.
A.  Perform steps 1 and 2 above.
B.  Put about a 1/4" layer of clay on top of piston #1.
C.  Perform steps 3 and 4 above.
D.  Rotate reciprocating assy so that crankshaft makes at least
    two complete revolutions.
E.  Remove head.
F.  Using a knife, cut through the clay at the point where each
    valve has made its deepest impression.
G.  Measure the thickness of the clay at its thinnest point.
    This is the valve to piston clearance.
H.  Again, if the clearance is very close to the limit, it's a good
    idea to measure the rest of the piston to valve clearances;
    otherwise, you are done with this measurement.


Unfortunately, I cannot answer your lobe center question.

George Kulp

----------
Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 11 18:40:50 1993
Subject: Survey *PLEASE DO FOR ME*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5549
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

my first time here at alt.hotrod:


interesting method of posting things... not used to it!

I drive a 1972 Ford Ranchero 500 (met. blue)
351C 2bbl
3.00:1 non-locking rear
C4 auto
ps/pb/air

this is perhaps the first Ranchero of the 1972 line, which I think is the 
best looking model.  the serial number ends  with 100444, which, I believe, 
makes it the 444th unit produced from the line that made all Torino bodies:
wagons, 2doors, etc, and those were in so much more demand that only a few 
Rancheros were made.  This is (documented) the first Ranchero sold in 
Houston for the 1972 model year.  The "make ready" marks/dates under the 
hood are "8-31-71" which is usually before the new models hit the dealers (I 
used to sell cars: i sold the first 1987 Mustang 5.0 LX [225 hp] in 
Houston... it was a convertible and friends selling at other dealers came 
over to drive the *new* mustang!).

any other Ranchero people out there???

kari
z_mcwestkj@ccsvax.sfasu.edu
nacogdoches, tx

----------
Posted by: "colleen's kari :)" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 11 18:49:10 1993
Subject: Re: Clearance question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5550
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Steve writes: 
> 
> Hi again.  I have another question (or two) for the list: what is the eaisest
> way to measure valve to piston clearance?  I usually have the machine shop do
> it at the time the engine is being assembled, but as I am going to be 
> installing a new cam in the engine I am getting for my car, I want to check
> the clearance myself before I put the cam in and dent the pistons. (that
> would be bad.)  

I don't know of any simple way to determine the clearance except by
measuring it.  The computations could be done if you have complete
data about the shape of the cam lobes, the rocker arm geometry, the
shape of the cam followers, the shape of the piston top, etc. but
it's a real big job.

I usually use something soft and pasty such as putty or modelling
clay stuck to the top of the piston.  Assemble the head just finger
tight without a head gasket, assemble the cam, lifters, push rods,
rockers and valves for one cylinder.  Rotate the engine CAREFULLY
through two revolutions of the crankshaft - stop immediately if you
encounter too much resistance to turning.  Remove the head, slice
carefully through the putty, and measure the thinnest part of the putty.
Add the thickness of the compressed head gasket and there's your clearance.

You don't need full strength valve springs for this test.  Weaker
springs are better because you don't have good lubrication while
you are turning the engine over and you would like to minimize the
loading on the cam lobes.  A weak spring from your local hardware
store will work just fine.

If you oil the valves and piston top before doing this then it will
be easier to remove the putty when you are done.  Also, this will
help to prevent the putty from sticking and pulling out of shape
as the valve retreats from the piston.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 11 22:33:44 1993
Subject: Differentials : Posi or Standard
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5551
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Sorry if this is a dumb question but:

Regarding GM 10 bolt rear axle gear assemblies.

Is it possible to raise the rear end of the car to determine the
type of differential (standard vs posi) and whether or not the
positraction components are worn? (Other than dissassembly)

I'd like to be able to make some determination as to the condition
and type axle when inspecting a potential project car for purchse.
 
How does each axle behave with rear wheels suspended while turning
one of the wheels?  Will the different axle show different results?

Please post here,

Thanks,

Ericy

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 11 22:37:54 1993
Subject: rod run announcement
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5552
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Foothills Street Rod Association
1993 Fun Run
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
August 20 - 23 1993
$1000 grand prize to be drawn from all entrants present at Saturday banquet
pre-registration prize TH350 transmission
Poker run , trade show , swap meet
Friday night BBQ
Saturday poker run , Kids games , Surprize theme banquet
Sunday morning breakfast
to register please supply
Name:
Spouse:
Address:
City:
Prov/State:
Postal/Zip Code:
Telephone:
Childrens Names and ages:
Make of Car:
Year:(This is a pre-54 or special invitation Run)
Model:
Club Affiliation:
Entry Fee : Pre-registration - $35.00 before July 23, 1993
                               $40.00 after July 23, 1993
            (includes 2 adults and children 16 years and under)
Car Guests: $15.00 per Person (not eligible for door prizes)
Dance Only Tickets: $10.00 per person (not eligible for door prizes)
Door Prizes Awarded By Car Number
Send to: Barry Klassen
         136 Woodford Close S.W.
         Calgary, AB, Canada
         T2W 6E2
         Phone (403) 281-1222
or Email mdsiewer@acs.ucalgary.ca

----------
Posted by: emory!acs.ucalgary.ca!mdsiewer (Michael Donald Siewert)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 12 14:43:04 1993
Subject: Re: Clearance question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5553
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Hi again.  I have another question (or two) for the list: what is the eaisest
> way to measure valve to piston clearance?  I usually have the machine shop do
> it at the time the engine is being assembled, but as I am going to be 
> installing a new cam in the engine I am getting for my car, I want to check
> the clearance myself before I put the cam in and dent the pistons. (that
> would be bad.)  
 
I've always used a old blob of silly putty on top of the piston.  I think
clay is the recomended substance.  

> Any suggestions on easy ways to do this (or hard ways that I can still do?)
 
I've always done it with just one piston installed, but you you can just
put the clay/silly putty on, put the head back on, turn the engine over,
pull the head, and mic the silly putty, and then reinstall the head again
with a new gasket.  I don't know of an easier method.

> One more question about lobe centers on camshafts (I know, this is getting
> old, but I figure better safe than sorry.)  From what I can tell, a higher
> lobe centerline (say, 114 vs. 107) is better for the idle, vaccum and such,
> but you lose a little at the top end, correct?  Will the higher lobe 
> centerline flatten out the HP curve (more bottom-end, less top end) as well,
> or just decrease the top end while improving idle?  

Higher overlap (smaller lobe seperation) helps midrange torque.  Too
much overlap kills you at idle.  Too little overlap kills your mid range.
The cams in our Kawasaki ZX-6 F-SAE engine have almost no overlap, and the
result is a torque curve with two distinct peaks.  On a car engine,
I imagine you'd never see anything except the lower peak.  This is what
I've seen in the stuff I've worked on, and camshaft performance is going
to be a function of a whole lotta things so general trends are difficult to
apply.  When we bought the cam for the NGV truck here, we told Dave Crower
what we wanted the engine to do and how we were going to do it, he suggested
a cam and told us see how it works, tell him what it did, and then he
could make us one that did exactly what we wanted if the first guess wasn't
close enough.  Fortunately, most peoples applications aren't as oddball as
ours so its easier to predict how a cam will perform.
 


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 12 14:49:35 1993
Subject: NGV Challenge 93
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5554
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Speaking of my natural gas truck, we finished the NGV Challenge 93
last night.  Our truck (University of Texas at Austin) made
1st place in acceleration with a 1/4 mile of 16.1 seconds (not bad for
5600lbs), tied for 3rd in emissions beating LEV standards and just
barely missing ULEV because of non-methane hydrocarbons (were burning
just a little bit too much oil).  Came in third place overall, really
surprised the heck out of me.  Thanks to everyone on the list whose given
assistance over the past few years.

We also got Formula SAE results.  Came in 16th overall in performance,
which is pretty good considering we were 40th in acceleration (didn't get
the injection working right until after the acceleration event) and had
2 yr old tires.  Hope to do really well next year.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

[Congrats!!!!  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 09:39:27 1993
Subject: Whipple superchargers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5555
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Back some time ago I read in one of the car rags about a twin-screw
-> (helical?) supercharger developed by Art Whipple and now sold as a
-> simple bolt-on kit for 88 & up Chevy/GMC 454, 350 & 4.3 V6 TBI
-> systems.  It claimed a boost of 100 HP but at a cost of $3200.00,

 The unit is known as the Sprintex in England and Australia.  Whipple
just imports it.  The unit is too small for most V8 applications, and
Whipple's advertising claims range from totally bizarre to absolute
horse puckey.  Whipple's installation kits look pretty nice, but he
wants too much money and the system is definitely low performance.

 Your best bet is one of the small B&M blowers.  If you're willing to
forego polishing and fancy bracketry, you can get blown for about half
the price of the Whipple.  B&M has a very good Supercharger Handbook
they sell for about $8 - it's well worth it, and though it's slanted
toward their own products, it's not just advertising.
                                                                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 09:44:30 1993
Subject: Re:  Polution help needed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5556
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Swapping engines without increasing performance... Ppptui! Go to your
-> room!

 I've done a few of those - actually there was a slight performance
gain, but they were basically cost-conscious swaps.  A friend had a '68
Ford pickup with no motor and a just-overhauled 350 Olds and T350 - that
was about the easiest swap I ever did.  Another friend with an RX-7 that
bit the dust.  He was still making payments on the RX, and Mazda wanted
over $1000 for the parts to rebuild the motor.  I sold him an extra
Pinto 2000 engine and trans for $200, and even put it in.  Or the guy
with the 340 Demon with the ventilated block, who was itching over a 327
Chevy I had just put together - that swap was a pain in the tail,
though.
                                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 09:49:32 1993
Subject: 294 angle plug Camel humps..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5557
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



-> a TPI manifiold(There is one place in West Oz that sells this
-> manifold, i think it is ChevPower and they want $3500Aust for the
-> manifold and

 Try FAXing this place:

Street & Performance            TPI FI conversions              11/92
PO Box 1169                     5.0/early Mustang swap
#1 Hot Rod Lane
Mena AR 71953
501-394-7113 fax
501-394-5711

 or write these:

TPS                             Tuned Port conversions          05/93
4255 County Road 10 East        EFI conversion book
Chaska MN 55318
612-448-6021


 You're looking at, best as I remember, around $1500 US for a TPI
conversion, which is pretty high IMHO, but cheaper than what you're
looking at.

 The actual intake manifold isn't that much of a deal - an old tunnel
ram would be just fine.  Since Ford went to EFI long before Holden, why
not see if you can adapt some Falcon stuff over?  Or even a system from
one of the big Datsuns or Toyotas?  If you can find someone local who
really knows the innards of one of the systems, it shouldn't be too hard
to move it over to the Chevy.


-> retainers(i have been told alloy retainers may fail and should be
-> checked and replaced periodically), I do not have a roller cam so i

 I've been told that too, and to the best of my knowledge no US cam
maker will sell you any aluminum retainers any more.  On the other hand,
I've had a set in service in a 302 Ford for THIRTEEN YEARS, the engine
was assembled for an autocrosser, and they're still doing fine.  It's a
CONSPIRACY, is what it is...


-> mount destroyer) , it looks like the TH350 is staying for a while
-> considering the prices of 6 speeds.

 No fake.  Don't forget all the weirdo input shaft/throwout bearing/
bellhousing problems, too.  There's nothing wrong with the T350 a
T700-R4 won't cure.  


-> 1970 HT Holden Monaro Tudor

 I'd offer to swap you a clean Camaro or Firebird, but the postage would
kill me.     Hey, did GMH ever build a V8 Torana, or am I
hallucinating again?
                                                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 13:39:23 1993
Subject: Posi or not
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5558
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Eric Youngblood asks if there is a way to tell if you have a limited slip
diff with the wheeles in the air.
Yes, there is a way.
Spin one of the wheels. If the other spins in the SAME direction, you
have a posi. If it spins in the OPPOSITE Rotation of the way you are spinning
the wheel, it is an open rear.

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 13:46:37 1993
Subject: Re:Slant Six
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5559
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



	Does it have an EGR? If it does, make sure it only operates when the
engine is hot. Also, make sure it operates period. Check your vacume lines and
switches.

	Pete

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 14:09:15 1993
Subject: Re: Differentials : Posi or Standard
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5560
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Is it possible to raise the rear end of the car to determine the
>type of differential (standard vs posi) and whether or not the
>positraction components are worn? (Other than dissassembly)
>
>Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)

With the wheels off of the ground, an open rear will let the tires
rotate in opposite directions, and a posi will have them going in the
same direction..  

steve

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnewsg.cb.att.com!sas (s.a.sullivan)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 14:17:51 1993
Subject: slant six remedies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5561
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Forwarded message:
> From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 10 19:35:30 1993
> 
> Subject:  carb questions
> 
> greetings:
> 
>   i have some basic carb questions for you.  even though this is on my
> daily driver, and the info will be most useful when my nova gets to the
> engine-building stage (still doing bodywork).  i prefer to do my
> learning on a machine i don't mind hurting (can you really *hurt* that
> old mopar slant 6? :)

No, but pinging can destroy any engine.
I wanted to email you an answer but can't parse your address.
> 
>   the carb has mechanical choke, is a two bbl in a side-by-side
> configuration, with an adjusting screw at the bottom of each bbl.
> other than the idle speed screws, there appear to be no other external
> adjustments possible.  the carb is an oem replacement carb for a 77
> dodge aspen w/ the 225 slant six.
ok
> 
>   the problem: recently (and fairly abruptly) the engine began pinging
> under load (hills, accelerating, passing...) when the engine is warm,
> but not during cruising or when cold.

retard spark slightly.  Does pinging stop?
If yes, retime distributor using a timing light and don't forget to
disconnect the vacume advance.

> 
>   here are my guesses as to what's going on and why it's having
> problems, divided into major categories: (feel free to comment/correct
> as needed)
> 
> -timing related
>   distributor:  i have had no difficulty getting the engine 'tuned' to
> proper rpm range with the proper number of degrees (and it stays
> there), so i am going on the assumption that it's still working fine.
>   timing chain: the timing light doesn't show the timing mark to be
> 'jumping' around, nor have i had any (additional) valve train noise, so
> i am not inclined to believe this to be a problem (also, i've heard
> that when this starts to fail, that the problems are usually much more
> severe than pinging...)
>   mechanical advance: since the vehicle operates fine "at speed", i'm
> assuming it's ok.

Use your timing light to see that the mark does, indeed, advance at
higher rpm even though the vacuum advance is disconnected.  If yes,ok.
If no, remove top plate of distributor and oil the timing weights and
mechanism.
   OR grab the rotor cap and you should be able to turn the
shaft a few degrees and the shaft should return to its initial position.
Repair as above.

>   vacuum advance: it seems to be fine (pop the cap, suck on the line &
> it moves, somewhere around 1/8 rotation (perhaps a bit less), about 15
> to 20 degrees).
> 
> -mixture related
>   accelerator pump: since there's no bogging on acceleration, and since
> there are no problems when the engine is cold, i'm not inclined to
> believe there is a problem with it. (do accelerator pump problems
> manifest themselves as anything besides the classic 'gasp for gas'?) 
>   idle circuit mixture: since it idles just fine, i'm inclined to
> assume that it is not the problem.

I adjust my idle mixture with a vacuum gauge.  With the engine warmed to
proper operating temperature and at the proper rpm, adjust the mixture
for the highest vacuum.

>   secondary mix: ???  it's a 2 bbl in a side-by-side configuration (ie
> both controlled by the same butterfly, not separate primary and
> secondary bbl), so how can one tell what their setting/condition might
> be and how does one adjust them?

Buy a vacuum gauge.  Pep boys sells a suntool for $20 that also measure
fuel pump pressure.

>   vacuum leak: could be, there are lots of old vac lines snaked all
> over the place... (i do need to get a vacuum-meter sometime soon....)

yes, I never knew I needed one for twenty years.  About a half hour of
using one on three different vehicles has convinced me.  Saved me a
valve job on a BB 400 Chrylser, got both my slant/sixes running better
than EVER in less time than it takes to write this response.

> also, how would vac leaks affect the vac advance on the distributor?
>   fuel delivery: could be...  i'm assuming something like a partially
> clogged filter or blocked jet (or tired fuel pump) could provide enough
> fuel for idle, but prevent the required flow for high demand, which
> would lean out the mix and lead to detonation.

Vacuum gauge again will tell you whether you need new vacuum lines.
> 
> -ignition related:
>   wires: they are fairly new.  what could happen to them to cause this
> kind of problem?  too much resistance would lead to a lower spark and
> poor combustion, but would that cause pinging?  how much resistance is
> ok/too much?
>   plugs: could be fouled.  it has been consuming minor amounts of oil.
>   electronic ignition module:  don't know, but i've heard they just
> don't fail part-way, and tend to out live most vehicles.
>   distributor: no sign of play (not loose, rotation-wise), wiper
> appears to be ok, the timing doesn't 'dance' and stays where i set it,
> and the cap appears to be ok (no signs of scoring, cracks, scorching,
> greasy fingerprints (well, not on the inside..), or arcing on or in it.
>   coil: seems to give a nice bright spark when the coil wire is aimed
> at the block.  i'm assuming it's ok.
> 
> -cylinder condition:
>   carbon buildup: possible, as i have been burning a bit of oil (no
> smoke screens, just a puff or two at startup).  how could one remove
> such deposits (w/o stripping off the heads)?  how to prevent
> recurrence?  would raising the temperature of the plugs would help
> prevent/reduce buildup problems?  is it possible to go too hot, that is
> keep using hotter plugs to try to burn the oil, and end up with a plug
> that is too hot for the engine (ie too hot (how do you tell?) but still
> covered with oil or buildup)?  i'm assuming that i might have a carbon
> formation that begins it's own flame front (once it has soaked up
> enough heat).

Not likely in an 8.4 compression ratio engine.
> 
> -something else?  have i missed anything else that could/should be
> checked?  any hints or ideas are welcome (as well as hints/pointers for
> good books on some of the more detailed explanations).

subscribe to mopar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu the mopar mailing list.
lots of slant/six people.
> 
>   sorry this turned out to be so long, but i wanted to cover all the
> bases.  and thanks in advance...
> 
> later,
> kc
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
>       (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
>  

Just guessing: your mechanical advance is stuck in the advanced position
and your mixture is too lean.  Or problems have developed in your
pollution controls which are producing the same effect.
Hope to hear from you.

tom root

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 14:45:57 1993
Subject: gm 10-bolt rear end
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5562
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


greetings:
  here's another pest-o-gram from me.  my project car has a
gm 10 bolt w/ 3.08's.  my question is how much will it take
(horespower-wise) on a regular basis before it explodes and
leaves me wheel-less?  the thm-350 had a shift kit (from an
unknown manufacturer) that allows smooth shifts at partial
throttle, but is quite brutal under heavy acceleration. the
car will be used as transportation, but it's the launch and
subsequent shifts that have me worried.
  i seem to recall they put up to 300 hp small-blocks (with
thm-350's) down on the 10 bolts, but that was with a stock
shift.  would a 300 horse engine be on the ragged side for
the 10 bolt?  (i really don't want to have to buy a 12 bolt
as i am about to be the recipient of a pink slip... ):

  any/all clues apreciated!

later,
kc

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 16:38:19 1993
Subject: gm 12 bolt power capacity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5563
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


greetings:
  i'm not sure that my previous attempt got thru, so ....
  i realized that i did not specify what kind of gm 10bolt rear i was
talking about.  it's a '69 8.125" rear w/ 3.07 gears.  what i want to
know is how much horsepower can i send it before it self-destructs? i
have a thm350 with a stock-ish converter, but a previous owner put a
shift-kit that gives neck-snapping shifts with the present weenie-type
motor.  what kind of horsepower can i expect to feed this feeble rear
on a regular basis without worring about it spontaneously disassembling
itself on the track?  if this rear is a complete loss, how much will a
different rear cost ($uper cheep, please:) and how much trouble to put
the puppy in?  i'm *real* low on $$$ now, so the cheaper the better.

  thanks in aadvance...

later,
kc

project car:  69 nova (hasn't *everyone* done one of these? :)

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 14 18:44:09 1993
Subject: Positrac or not?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5564
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


A couple of years ago, I bought a new Silverado for a Pro Street
project. Since I ordered it with a limited slip differential, you
can imagine my surprise when the time honored test of rotating
one wheel while watching the other indicated an open carrier.

Flustered at the obvious intent to defraud, I checked my paper 
work and verified that I had been charged for the limited slip.
However, since I had to narrow the rear housing anyway, and not 
wanting to jump into a big face off with GM without having my
facts straight, I decided to obtain visual proof.

Well, it turned out upon inspection that I *did* have a limited
slip differential after all. It has a more complex set of innards 
than an older style posi which may account for it failing the 
test. I'm not sure what kind of test could have been performed to
verify its pedigree without disassembly, but I thought it might
be of interest to the group to know that my "limited slip test
paradigm" was forever altered.


Vic Cook

[I've never had much faith in this test.  I've seen a number of cars
with a loose enough drivetrain to turn both wheels in the same direction
even without limited slip.  My well-worn (out?) Datsun Z with 300K miles
is just such a critter.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!sierra.com!vcook (Victor Cook)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 15 08:47:42 1993
Subject: Rebuilds only last 30,000 mi.  ???????
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5565
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


HI all.  I have a question.  I have a 1979 RX with
about 20,000 miles on a rebuilt 12A I got from Mazda.
I am planning to add a high performance intake kit
to go along with the free flow exhaust I already have.
I was considering porting the engine or adding a turbo
kit when a fellow I talked to at Rotary Engineering
said that any rebuild kit I buy probably won't last as
long as the engine the car came with.  He said that rebuilds
are not as good on average and should only last...get this..
30,000 to 40,000 miles on average.  Based on this I already
have used up half the life of my engine!  I was under the
assumption I could probably get 100k out of the motor, I did
out of the stock engine.  

Is this guy on drugs or is he right.  I never have heard this 
before.  If it is true I'd better forget about the carb kit and
start saving for a new motor!!

Sean Crandell
scrandel@sdcc13.ucsd.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!sdcc13.UCSD.EDU!scrandel (S. Crandell         )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 15 08:55:34 1993
Subject: Re: Positrac or not?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5566
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> [I've never had much faith in this test.  I've seen a number of cars
> with a loose enough drivetrain to turn both wheels in the same direction
> even without limited slip.  My well-worn (out?) Datsun Z with 300K miles
> is just such a critter.  JGD]

Gleason torsen differentials also fail this test.  The wheels will always
want to spin in opposite directions if you try to turn just one of em by
hand.  I don't think there is any way to inspect a torsen other than to
tear it apart.  Unfortunately you probably don't need to worry about
running across one.


-- 
--=<   Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu   >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 15 12:19:11 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5567
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
forum for  people interested in high performance vehicles to
exchange ideas and  discuss topics of current interest. This
list is chartered as broadly as possible consistent with  noise
supression.  I believe it to be more constructive to list
unacceptable topics and behavior rather than trying to
ennumerate permissible behavior. 

Unacceptable topics:  

*	Discussions about stock street cars.
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----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 15 12:26:36 1993
Subject: Re:  gm 12 bolt power capacity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5568
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The earlier 10-bolts don't seem to be -that- feeble. The ones prior to the
early '70s seem to be much better constructed, at least in terms of size
of axle tubes and housing, outboard retainers instead of C-clips, etc. They
used to last OK behind small blocks below 300HP; the hot engine options 
sometimes were bundled with heavy duty/posi rears. 

 I vaguely recall some apocryphal stories about some racers preferring the
10-bolts for certain applications because the 12-bolt posi units "blew up"
if you ran them hard in the curves. This may be the hot rod equivalent of
an Urban Legend; third hand at best anyhow. I think with an open diff 
you'll lose adhesion way before you exceed the input torque rating of the
piece. With posi, big rims and slicks and a low ratio you might manage to
break something. With 10-bolts being common as rust, as long as you don't
completely grenade it far from home it's a $50 nuisance to replace the 
whole thing.

 On the posi test thing, I've seen some of the new style LSD center sections
at swap meets; real gizmos. Some sort of fly weight and pawl, which look 
to me like a speed (rotational) dependent clutch actuation (or defeat?).
I guess maybe these are true limited slip types, where one wheel has to
spin enough to get the ring gear going so that the locking clutches come
in? Hence the "limited" slip name?

 These seem to have been used mainly in trucks I believe; probably better
in the dirt than on the pavement, although the real LSD is probably better
behaved on wet curves (until the first wheel spins, then you'd be locked
up again?). I recall hearing negative things about the long term reliability
of the fancy innards, mainly eventual failure to engage. I guess regular
cleaning and inspection might be more important with the small moving parts.

 I have verified that a -good- posi rear acts as described, with the 
breakaway torque and all. The tag on the housing is another good clue. 
I'd still have the cover off a junkyard unit before I bought one. If the
unit doesn't act like a -good- posi then it isn't, for some reason. Worn
clutches, wrong gear lube, rust from being stored in a mud pit, etc. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 15 12:36:08 1993
Subject: *FINAL CAR RATINGS*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5569
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



   These are the final car ratings from the posting that I did about
three weeks ago.  These are average ratings by the people that replied
to me:

Rank from 1 to 10            Rating's (1 lowest)

Ford Festiva                        2.4
Ford F250                           4.6
Ford Aerostar                       4
Dodge Dakota                        5.2
Dodge Caravan                       6.3
Chevy Camaro                        6.6
Ford Thunderbird                    7
Ford Mustang                        7.1
Pontiac Firebird                    7.6
Chevy Corvette                      7.7

Thank you to the 12 people that helped with these ratings.

----------
Posted by: emory!matt.ksu.ksu.edu!wassom (Clyde Wassom)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 08:37:42 1993
Subject: Re: Rebuilds only last 30,000 mi.  ???????
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5570
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> HI all.  I have a question.  I have a 1979 RX with
> about 20,000 miles on a rebuilt 12A I got from Mazda.
> I am planning to add a high performance intake kit
> to go along with the free flow exhaust I already have.
> I was considering porting the engine or adding a turbo
> kit when a fellow I talked to at Rotary Engineering
> said that any rebuild kit I buy probably won't last as
> long as the engine the car came with.  He said that rebuilds
> are not as good on average and should only last...get this..
> 30,000 to 40,000 miles on average.  Based on this I already
> have used up half the life of my engine!  I was under the
> assumption I could probably get 100k out of the motor, I did
> out of the stock engine.  

A rebuilt 12A may last 14,000 or 140,000 miles, depending on who
rebuilt it, what they replaced, how you take care of it, and luck.
Mazda factory rebuilds are generally not too high quality, but
thats reflected in the price.  Slapping a turbo or blower on
a 12A with stock rotors (stock compression) will majorly
decrease engine life.

-- 
--=<   Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu   >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 08:47:46 1993
Subject: traction-aiding differential
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5571
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
With the rash of mythology recently regarding checking the
presence/condition of a traction-aiding differential (often labled "posi"
or similar...); I thought I'd forward the procedure used by Chrysler for
this purpose (or at least written-up in service literature).

	1)  acquire the following -- piece of smooth formica or masonite,
	    a section of 4X4 lumber a foot or so long, a piece of wrapping
	    paper (not gift-wrap, the heavy brown stuff)

	2) place the formica/masonite on the shop floor and place the paper
	    on the smooth side of the formica (formica is smooth side up).

	3)  drive the vehicle-under-test onto the formica/paper and place 
	    the 2X4 (correct dimension, not 4X4) in front of the rear tire
	   that *is NOT* on the paper.

	4)  attempt to drive the vehicle off the paper/formica and *over*
	    the 2X4... *if* the paper is not 'spit-out' by the spinning
	    tire, the vehicle has a properly functioning traction-aiding
	    differential.

The only differential I'd trust the 'spin the tire and see which the other
spins' test to is a Detroit Locker.

Walt K.
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 08:53:45 1993
Subject: RE:  gm 12 bolt power capacity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5572
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> The earlier 10-bolts don't seem to be -that- feeble. The ones prior to >the
early '70s seem to be much better constructed, at least in terms of >size of
axle tubes and housing, outboard retainers instead of C-clips, >etc. They used
to last OK behind small blocks below 300HP; the hot >engine options sometimes
were bundled with heavy duty/posi rears. 

As an aside, the 455 powered Buicks all came with 10 bolt rears. This includes
the '70 Stage I's.

----------
Posted by: "Mellum Ron" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 08:58:42 1993
Subject: Re:  gm 12 bolt power capacity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5573
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

James W. Swonger says:
> The earlier 10-bolts don't seem to be -that- feeble. The ones prior to the
>early '70s seem to be much better constructed, at least in terms of size
>of axle tubes and housing,

Yes, there are several variations on the GM-10 bolt rear.  My richmond gear
catalog lists four or five.  The most common are the 8.2" and 8.5".  I had
an 8.2" in a Chevelle behind a 396-325hp for about a week before the ring
gears got sheared off!  On the other hand, the 8.5" 10 bolt under my daily
driver Chevelle 350 has taken 150,000 miles of abuse and probably 1,000 
quarter mile passes!  It has held together _very_ well.  The richmond gear
catalog lists what years the different sizes were made, and in the early 
70's both 8.2" and 8.5" 10 bolts were available.  (By comparison, the 12 bolt
GM uses a 8.875" ring gear.) 

>outboard retainers instead of C-clips, etc. They
>used to last OK behind small blocks below 300HP; the hot engine options 
>sometimes were bundled with heavy duty/posi rears.

Strange engineering makes a C-clip eliminator kit for ~ $60.00 for 12 bolt.
I would assume prices are similar for other rear ends.
 
> I vaguely recall some apocryphal stories about some racers preferring the
>10-bolts for certain applications because the 12-bolt posi units "blew up"
>if you ran them hard in the curves. This may be the hot rod equivalent of
>an Urban Legend;

It is not an urban legend!  I have destroyed 2 12 bolts this way.  The problem
occurs when you are running an open end 12 bolt and are spinning a single
tire a _lot_ more than the other.  The problem is that there is only a 3/8"
bolt that holds the center pin in place in the center section.  (The center
section has 4 spider gears; two of which are mounted on the axles, the other
two are mounted on the center pin sitting in a plane perpendicular to the axle
spider gears.)  I know my description sucks; a drawing would be most helpful.
Only if one wheel is spinning much faster than the other is there much shear
stress on the center pin bolt...  and it shears easily!!!  Once the center pin
bolt goes, the center pin can go wherever it wants (typically stays in place,
though) sending metal pieces throughout the rear end.  I put in a "brute
strength" unit and have not had any problems since.  I also have known
10 bolts to undergo _SERIOUS_ single wheel spinning and not have a minute's
problem!  Go figure!

> On the posi test thing, I've seen some of the new style LSD center sections
>at swap meets; real gizmos. Some sort of fly weight and pawl, which look 
>to me like a speed (rotational) dependent clutch actuation (or defeat?).
>I guess maybe these are true limited slip types, where one wheel has to
>spin enough to get the ring gear going so that the locking clutches come
>in? Hence the "limited" slip name?
>
> These seem to have been used mainly in trucks I believe; probably better
>in the dirt than on the pavement,

My friend's 85 Chevy truck does this: it will let one wheel spin about a
full rotation before a slight clunk and the rear becomes a "locked axle".  As
long as the rear end is under tension, they stay locked.  Cool, but could
get hairy on a wet curvy road when rear suddenly locks in!
 
JC.  jca@fibercom.com

----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James C. Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 09:03:56 1993
Subject: rear axle ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5574
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone know the BEST way to determine the ratio of a junkyard rear axle
without removing the cover?  A couple books I have explain it WRONG.  From
what I can figure, it seems that for a non-posi axle the way to do it is like
this:

	Jack up the car, hold one wheel steady with a block, put the trans in
neutral, and then rotate the wheel one complete turn.  Count the number of
turns the pinion turns and multiply it by two.  It helps to mark the axle and
tire with a grease pencil.  So, if the pinion turns 1.33 times (x2) equals a
ratio of 2.66 (a highway good mileage, terrible performance ratio).

	Does this sound like the right way to do it?  What happens when it's a
posi rearend, is it impossible to turn one wheel while holding the other one
still?

	-------------------------------------------------------------

	When I got the axle for my hotrod truck, I looked at dozens and dozens
of wrecking yard 10-bolt and 12-bolt Chevy rearends so that I could keep my
truck 5 on 4.75" bolt pattern all the way around.  I had to find one the
correct width to keep the tires tucked in between the snug fitting fenders and
the frame.  I had to settle for a rearend from an El Camino.  I needed to
grind off the connections for the coil spring set up and weld on some perches
to fit it to the trucks leaf springs.  The width was perfect, but the ratio
sucks, it's a 2.73 : 1, I think, with no posi.  It's a 10-bolt.

	I wish now that I'd just gotten a Ford 9" instead and then just had
the axle hubs redrilled for Chevy bolt pattern.

	Do you know if it's too much of a headache to swap gears in a 10-bolt
rear.  Do you need any special tools?

	For your info, the original axle on my '54 truck was the old
torque-tube style.  They used to have a the drive shaft in a hollow housing
permanently attached to the rear axle with a ball swivel joint at the back of
the trans.  The torque-tube HAD TO GO along with the engine and trans.

	Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 09:14:35 1993
Subject: Re: Positrac or not?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5575
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Vic Cook writes:
Well, it turned out upon inspection that I *did* have a limited
slip differential after all. It has a more complex set of innards 
than an older style posi which may account for it failing the 
test. I'm not sure what kind of test could have been performed to
verify its pedigree without disassembly, but I thought it might
be of interest to the group to know that my "limited slip test
paradigm" was forever altered.


One sure way that I know of is to jack up one rear axle with a wheeled
floor jack and gently try to drive away.  If the raised wheel just spins
then it's not posi.  If you drive away then it is some kind of limited
slip.  If you don't have a floor jack then you can rest the axle on a short
4x4 wood post and try to drive off that.  Be careful because the post
can rocket out the back as you get off of it, and it might end up
jammed into the rear suspension, puncture the gas tank, severing the brake
line, or doing any of a number of other nasty things.

bob Hale

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 09:14:36 1993
Subject: Re: KKOA meet
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5576
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



  I hope to someday attend one of these KKOA Events.  I just came back
  from the Duke City Rodders Run in Albq NM and there were alot of sharp
  Street Rods.  This was the first year they opened it to Customs , but
  there were only 5.

  George (1950 Merc Chopped and Kustomized) Castaneda

----------
Posted by: emory!col.hp.com!gc4403 (hpctdrp)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 09:19:08 1993
Subject: 2nd CFV: rec.autos.rod-n-custom
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5577
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Due to my machine being down and trucking from CA to Denver when
the first notice came out, I missed this posting - how many
others missed it too???
excerpt:

"On 05/27/93 a Call for Votes was announced for the creation of the
group rec.autos.rod-n-custom.  This is a second announcement for those
who may have missed the original.  If you've already voted, do not vote
again.  Instructions and the charter follow.

HOW TO CAST A VOTE
==================

To cast a vote in favor of the new group, send mail to:

       auto.yes@vpnet.chi.il.us.

Your subject should say "Yes to rec.autos.rod-n-custom" or something
similiar.

To cast a vote against the new group, send mail to:

       auto.no@vpnet.chi.il.us.

Your subject should say "No to rec.autos.rod-n-custom" or something
similiar.

No person may vote more than once.  Votes sent to addresses other than
the two mentioned above will not be counted.

On 06/27/93 the votes will be counted and the results posted.

====================================================================
Charter for rec.autos.rod-n-custom, an unmoderated newsgroup

Definition:  Rod-n-Custom - The definition is not as important as the
intent of the newsgroup.  The intent of the
newsgroup is to discuss high performance
autos or modifications needed to make it a
performance auto.  In addition, body
modifications falling under the classifi-
ation of customizing or altering will be
discussed.

Rec.autos.rod-n-custom shall be a haven for discussion of all aspects of
hot-rodding and customizing.  Suggested topics may include but not neces-
sarily be limited to:

*  Discussion concerning parts and services for modification or
   customizing purposes.
*  High-performance or customized autos or auto parts for sale
   or wanted.
*  Discussion of car shows, races and racing.
*  Questions and discussions of performance figures.
*  Questions and comment regarding engine, exterior and interior
   modifications.
*  Nostalgia - Reminiscing about rods, customs or high-performance
cars you or someone else used to own."



sharen

----------
Posted by: emory!zuni.litc.lockheed.com!sharen (Sharen A. Rund)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 09:25:28 1993
Subject: Re: Rebuilds only last 30,000 mi.  ???????
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5578
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> 
> HI all.  I have a question.  I have a 1979 RX with
> about 20,000 miles on a rebuilt 12A I got from Mazda.
> I am planning to add a high performance intake kit
> to go along with the free flow exhaust I already have.
> I was considering porting the engine or adding a turbo
> kit when a fellow I talked to at Rotary Engineering
> said that any rebuild kit I buy probably won't last as
> long as the engine the car came with.  He said that rebuilds
> are not as good on average and should only last...get this..
> 30,000 to 40,000 miles on average.  Based on this I already
> have used up half the life of my engine!  I was under the
> assumption I could probably get 100k out of the motor, I did
> out of the stock engine.  
> 
> Is this guy on drugs or is he right.  I never have heard this 
> before.  If it is true I'd better forget about the carb kit and
> start saving for a new motor!!
> 
> Sean Crandell
> scrandel@sdcc13.ucsd.edu
    
    My guess is that he is definately on dope!  Or maybe he was 
only talking about engines that he rebuilds.  Most rebuilt engines
are as good as the person doing the work.  Same is true for engines
from the factory.  A good rebuilt engine should last at least as
long as the original.  All of the rebuilt engines I have seen or
am familiar with have lasted much more than 100,000 miles.  Of course
lots depend on how the engine is maintained during its useful life
span.  Take care of your engine and it will take care of you.  

LA... LA... LA...   LA...  LA  ..  Later,,,,    Larry Akers....

> ----------
> Posted by: emory!sdcc13.UCSD.EDU!scrandel (S. Crandell         )

----------
Posted by: emory!col.hp.com!lakers (Larry Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 14:21:59 1993
Subject: 66 Fairlane Trim..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5579
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



    Help,  I have looked for the past three months for the wheel 
opening moulding for the left front fender for my 66 Fairlane 500.

I have the paint on and everything is back to original as far as
the exterior of the car goes except for this drivers side front 
wheel opening molding.  I would like to have the car complete if
possible, I know that this is an elusive piece of chrome considering
the age of the car but there must be some out there somewhere.
Anyone out there know where they may be hiding?

LA..........................Later,,,,,,Larry Akers...

----------
Posted by: emory!col.hp.com!lakers (Larry Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 14:26:39 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5580
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>From classic-mustangs-request@mustang.fc.hp.com Tue Jun 15 15:45:51 1993

The June 1993 AC Owners Club newsletter ACtion contained a reprint of a
story which originally appeared in the L.A.  Time on April 17th of
this year.  I thought a few excerpts from the article might be of
interest.  I'll start with ACtion's preface:

       Autos:  Questions have been raised over Carroll Shelby's claim
       he's building 43 of his classic Cobras using original chassis.
       Shelby says he's the victim of a business feud.

Excerpts from the article follow:

       Despite Shelby's statements of authenticity - widely quoted by
       automotive magazines and newspapers including the Times -
       engineers involved in his project say there are few items of
       original metal or equipment on the reissued 427SCs.  The motors
       and transmissions are 1965 rebuilds; chassis, suspension, body
       and most other parts are newly manufactured.

       And that, say some car specialists, make these Cobras facsimiles
       worth little more than a dozen other replicars on the market, the
       best of which sell for only $65,000.

       Other experts say that because the new cars have been touched by
       the master they're worth much more...

       Forty-three chassis Shelby said had been in storage since 1965
       were actually built in 1991 and 1992 by a Torrance [CA] company
       McCluskey Ltd.  A McCluskey engineer says all frames are precise
       copies of Cobra 427 chassis originally built for Shelby by AC
       Cars Ltd.  of England, with McCluskey workers even duplicating
       the coarse welds and rough saw cuts of 1965 metal workers...

       Wednesday a DMV spokesman said the matter is now being
       investigated by the Los Angeles field office of DMV's
       Investigation and Occupational Licensing Division.

       In a series of recent interviews, over three weeks, Shelby, 70,
       offered several explanations regarding the chassis before
       admitting they had been built in 1991 and '92 by McCluskey....

       As part of the certification process for racing the 400-plus
       horse power Cobra 427 model, AC and Shelby-American assigned that
       series a block of 100 numbers.  But not all 100 cars were built.
       According to AC's 1965 records, the company shipped only 55 Cobra
       427 chassis to the US....

       Richard Kopec, national director of the Shelby American Club in
       Sharon, Conn.  says it is a case of Shelby being Shelby and
       'selling a little bit of truth, a little bit of snake oil and
       some things best left unsaid.'


The article goes on to describe the ongoing Feud between Shelby and the
current head of AC Cars, Brian Angliss, over who's Cobra is the more
authentic, et cetera.  Angliss' builds the Autokraft Mk IV Cobra.
Angliss also manufactures a replica of the earlier Mark II (289) Cobra.
Shelby's version of the 427 SC sells for $500,000, considerably more
than the MK IV.

Roland

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 14:31:42 1993
Subject: Re: Positrac or not? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5581
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

->From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 15 07:56:34 1993
->
->> [I've never had much faith in this test.  I've seen a number of cars
->> with a loose enough drivetrain to turn both wheels in the same direction
->> even without limited slip.  My well-worn (out?) Datsun Z with 300K miles
->> is just such a critter.  JGD]
->
->Gleason torsen differentials also fail this test.  The wheels will always
->want to spin in opposite directions if you try to turn just one of em by
->hand.  I don't think there is any way to inspect a torsen other than to
->tear it apart.  Unfortunately you probably don't need to worry about
->running across one.
->
Some years ago I bought a 55 Chev to use as a hobby-stock on one of the
local 1/4 mile tracks.  Gentleman I bought it from indicated it had a
posi on it.  Passed the spin test all right.  When I took it apart I 
found the spider gears welded together.  "poor man's posi" the old timers
called it.

-tom kroeten
Minnesota Supercomputer Center

----------
Posted by: emory!msc.edu!tom (Tom Kroeten)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 16:48:44 1993
Subject: RE: gm 10-bolt rear end
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5582
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well I blew up mine after about 6 months

1970 GTO 400 /headers-cam-carb/ TH400
L50 tires - tucked in under tthe fenders (they fit 
perfect). 10 bolt single track rear 3.08ish gears.

While street racing (in a closed off section of an 
industrial complex) I did a 1-2 shift at 5,800rpm.  
Analysis shows the spider gears failed.  They sheared 
right were the load was.  This sent my rpm's way up (I 
was under full throttle)  Thanks to an overkill oil 
system and a combination that should choke the engine 
at about 6500-7000rpm nothing else went wrong.

I simlply replaced the spider gears (don't know if it 
was done properly) and eventually sold the car.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 16:53:34 1993
Subject: Re: 66 Fairlane Trim..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5583
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Jun 16, 12:55pm, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: 66 Fairlane Trim..
> 
> 
>     Help,  I have looked for the past three months for the wheel 
> opening moulding for the left front fender for my 66 Fairlane 500.
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!col.hp.com!lakers (Larry Akers)
>  
 Larry, try Obsolete Ford Parts Oklahoma City at 405 631-3933 first.
If no luck, get yourself a copy of HEMMINGS MOTOR NEWS.  If you can't
track one down through an advertiser in Hemmings, you may have a long road
to find one.  SUPER FORD Magazine is another possibility, though most of
their good old parts advertisers also advertise in Hemmings.



-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive(brattlan@speedway.net| ( Ford 302 Tri-Power  
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   | 4 spd, 9 inch )
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 16:57:15 1993
Subject: Cobras
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5584
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>From classic-mustangs-request@mustang.fc.hp.com Tue Jun 15 15:45:51 1993 



>The article goes on to describe the ongoing Feud between Shelby and the
>current head of AC Cars, Brian Angliss, over who's Cobra is the more
>authentic, et cetera.  Angliss' builds the Autokraft Mk IV Cobra.
>Angliss also manufactures a replica of the earlier Mark II (289) Cobra.
>Shelby's version of the 427 SC sells for $500,000, considerably more
>than the MK IV.

Way out of range vs. just plain out of range.  If I ever get the money to blow 
I'll stick to a kit car.... small block chevy + DN 5-speed maybe add a turbo? 
:-)

I can here the purists now..

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 16 17:40:18 1993
Subject: Inquiry: Differences between Olds 350'R' and Chevy 350 V8's.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5585
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


  Greetings rodders;

  Could someone knowledgeable explain to me the differences between the
  Oldsmobile 350 CID 'R' motor and the Chevy 350 standard.
  
  -I am referring to 1977 vintage of Olds Cutlass with the 350 V8.
     120,000 miles on a diet of riceballs and kraut...

  Other than the oil filter being off-sized, what other (if any) major
  things are weird?

  My manuals dont say what diameter the intake or exhaust valves are,
  please educate me on this AND if the Olds 350 valving is prone to wear
  causing a tic to develop over time.(is it lifter or rocker originated?)

  Please forgive if this is another FAQ...

  Email direct because I am not yet subscribed to the rod.net.group.

  THANK-YOU!
-- 
  -kyle

  
   Electrical Designer   (AND) Senior Engineering Laboratory Technician
   Subsystems Development Engineering,

   NCR corporation; Peripheral Products Division  [an ATT company]
   

----------
Posted by: emory!gatech!daisy.wichitaks.ncr.com!kehler (Kyle Ehler)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 17 14:43:52 1993
Subject: Re: Survey *PLEASE DO FOR ME*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5586
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stuff Deleted <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

>any other Ranchero people out there???
>kari
>Posted by: "colleen's kari :)" 

*>>> Um well.....we have a '53 Ranchero (dinkum) which is a difficult
     beast to imagine for you Yankees I'll bet...B-> Of course we live
     over here in Oz where the *Ranchero* was invented (in Geelong actually)
     by Ford in 1933 or 34 at a local farmers request.
                                                      Speaking of which we 
     do need a little help in updating the Flathead (already done the usual
     stuff like heads/Edelbrock..manifold/Offenhauser..cam/Iskerderian) but 
     before we fire it up we have to fit a new distributor of the non 
     vacumn advance variety to go with the two (stromberg style) Ford Holleys
     we have sitting on our 2x2bbl Offy intake. Flathead experts are as rare as
     rocking horse shit over here. Oh yeah...winter is here and we need some
     *wipers* real quick...does anyone know of an easy late model 12 volt elec.
     conversion or kit perhaps ?
                                BTW...we call it a ute over here...abbrieviated      from it's full (1933-53) model designation...15 cwt Coupe Utility. They
     were originally (hand!) made from 2dr business coupes. Mainlines in fact
     for anyone from Canada. Wide whites, red steels and baby moons, blue dot
     lenses, and dual glass packs over dark green paint and a 276 cube flathead.

     >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WAY TO GO MATE <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
-- 
  ___________________________________________________________________  
|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  ||
||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
  -------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!rxkgre (Geof Evans)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 17 14:57:38 1993
Subject: Re: 396 and Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5587
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




> First project in it is rebuilding my '79 Bronco, then rebuilding my big blocks
> and finding homes for them (my '84 Camaro is getting one, but I haven't decide
> which to put in first, the 396 or the 454. :) )
>
Steve,
  I admire your building talents - quite a garage for the bucks.  My 2 bits
on the 84 Camaro engine:  As the 396 and 454 are the same size and almost
the same weight, I'd overbore the 454 and use it.  We big-blockers pay such a
weight premium that it makes sense to get the largest reasonable displacement to
help offest this penalty.

  If I owned a 396, I believe I would try to sell it to someone who needs this
engine size for a resto (e.g SS396 Camaro, Chevelle).  Then I would invest the
money in a 400 block and good aluminum heads.  Same displacement at about
200 lbs less weight.  Some folks don't like the siameesed cylinder bores of
the 400 cid Chevy SB.  For street and occasional strip use, I don't think
a well-prepared 400 block will give you serious cooling problems.  IMHO.

  Anyway, my dream garage would include some way to get at the belly of
the car.  I've seen several kinds of scissor-type lifts, and the very
expensive built-in hydraulic lifts.  My father-in-law has a nice pit over
which he can drive a car or truck.

I've also heard about a device which rotates a vehicle around its long axis.
This would seem ideal for cleaning and welding.  There are times when you would
really like to work straight ahead instead of upside down.  Does anyone know how
this device attaches to the vehicle?

Eric


----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 17 17:13:35 1993
Subject: Inquiry: Differences between Olds 350'R' and Chevy 350 V8's.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5588
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Could someone knowledgeable explain to me the differences between the
-> Oldsmobile 350 CID 'R' motor and the Chevy 350 standard.

 I dunno.  Is an "R" motor an Olds or a Chevy?  GM had a habit of
substituting 350 CI motors in different carlines.

 If it's the real Olds, it is larger and heavier than the Chevy, has
slightly better breathing and a much better rod ratio.
                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 17 18:40:33 1993
Subject: Re: 66 Fairlane Trim..
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5589
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


i'm interested in trading email with anyone interested in the
 66 Fairlane.

i have a 66 Fairlane Convertible that i'm restoring to what i
 like to refer to as 'better than original'.

i am looking for certain parts, and have extra parts for sale.
 i also want to trade info, and find out about sources you may
 have used. i'm a member of the Fairlane Club of America.

please email me directly, let's not clutter up the net any more...

thx,                                    "for evil to triumph,
sixto                                     good men need only do nothing."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!pyramid.com!sixto (Sixto Bernal)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 18 13:43:13 1993
Subject: Auto Trans rebuild time????
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5590
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Hi guys !!

Hope you can help me here:

I have a 1980 Ford Bronco, that up until recently was a real workhorse
both in towing and every day reliability. Well Yesterday after moving the last
of 5tons of hay...the transmisiion seems to have sprung a leak.

The bronco still drives well, just a steady leak at the front end of the 
trans.  Before I call/tow it to AAMCO or whatever...any ideas???  What
may have let go, and what will it cost in today's dollars.

[Replies to Dave in Email please.  JGD]


thanks, 

dave

--
Dave Dabay       Telecommunications Engineer Supervisor      KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu

----------
Posted by: dave dabay 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 18 13:53:11 1993
Subject: Re: 396 and Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5591
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

An answer and a question:

> I've also heard about a device which rotates a vehicle around its long axis.
This would seem ideal for cleaning and welding.  There are times when you would
really like to work straight ahead instead of upside down.  Does anyone know how
this device attaches to the vehicle?

Usually through the bumper bolt holes.  Obviously, you don't do this unless 
you've pulled the engine, running gear, and most of the other stuff off the car.
I'm planning on building one, it's a good idea if you make the attachment 
adjustable in some way so you can use it with different types of cars.

> Some folks don't like the siameesed cylinder bores of
the 400 cid Chevy SB.  For street and occasional strip use, I don't think
a well-prepared 400 block will give you serious cooling problems.

Could someone explain what siamesed cylinder bores are?  Why do they affect 
cooling?  For that matter, what are siamesed int/ex ports?

------
Bryan Blackwell bryan@mitre.org (703) 883 7329

'65 Corvair, '66 E-type, '69 Road Runner
If you have to ask the question, you won't understand the answer
------

----------
Posted by: "Bryan Blackwell"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 18 14:04:12 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-23
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5592
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

This Week In NASCAR, Ann Arbor (T)    6/18     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Checkered Flag (IndyCar, Detroit)     6/18     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/19     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             6/19     3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (Pocono)               6/19     5:00-5:30AM      ESPN
Glory Days                            6/19     6:00-6:30AM      ESPN
LEMANS, START (L)                     6/19     9:00-10:00AM     HTS*
World Of Speed&Beauty(La Carrera 2000)6/19     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (Fuel tank repairs)6/19     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
IMSA, MID-OHIO (T)                    6/19     12:00-2:00PM     ESPN
HYDROPLANES, DETROIT (T)              6/19     2:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          6/19     2:00-2:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today                            6/19     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    6/19     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE (T) 6/19     3:30-5:30PM      TNN
MotorWeek '93 (HARLEYS !!!)           6/19     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
IHRA, SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (SD)  6/19     6:00-7:00PM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             6/19     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/19     8:00-11:00PM     ESPN
LEMANS, FINISH (L)                    6/20     8:00-9:00AM      HTS*
Truckin' USA                          6/20     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Cycle World                           6/20     9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Trucks & Tractor Power                6/20     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Sleepy Tripp)                6/20     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
MIDGET WORLD CHALLENGE, PHOENIX (T)   6/20     10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
NHRA Today                            6/20     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    6/20     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/20    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             6/20     1:00-4:00PM      CBS
NHRA?, SPRINGNATIONALS, COLUMBUS (T)  6/20     2:00-3:00PM      NBC
USAC & NASCAR, COPPER WORLD CLASSIC(T)6/20     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     3:25-3:30PM      TNN
Winners (Sleepy Tripp)                6/20     4:30-5:00PM      TNN
LEMANS, FINISH (SD)                   6/20     5:30-6:30PM      HTS*
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (T)     6/20     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/20     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine                    6/20     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks & Tractor Power                6/20    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer                           6/20    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA                          6/21     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed&Beauty(La Carrera 2000)6/21     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (T)        6/21     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
The Glory Days                        6/21     1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
This Week On Pit Road                 6/21     5:00-5:30PM      HTS*
IMSA, EXXON SUPREME, LEXINGTON (T)    6/22     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/22     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (IndyCar, Detroit)     6/22     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             6/22     4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
Powerboat Racing, Miami (T)           6/22     3:00-4:00PM      HTS*
Speed Racer                           6/23     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (F1, Montreal)         6/23     3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
IHRA, SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)   6/23     4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
Jet Ski Racing, San Diego (T)         6/23     2:00-2:30PM      HTS*
Movie: The Cannonball Run             6/23     6:45-8:30PM      MAX
Speed Racer                           6/24     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Jet Ski Racing (T)                    6/24     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
SAAB PRO SERIES, LIME ROCK (T)        6/24     4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
Cycle World                           6/24     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     6/24     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Hydroplane Racing, Detroit (T)        6/24     2:30-3:30PM      ESPN
Prime Time Motorsports                6/24     3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (HARLEYS !!!)           6/24     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Prime Time Motorsports                6/24     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR (?)               6/24    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
AMA SUPERCROSS, LA (T)                6/25     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/25     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             6/25     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
This Week In NASCAR (T)               6/25     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Speed Racer                           6/26     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Jet Ski Racing                        6/26     4:30-5:00AM      ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (L)            6/26     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (T)                6/26     4:00-5:30PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MOSPORT (T)               6/26     5:00PM           TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/26     8:00PM           ESPN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
IMSA, WATKINS GLEN (?)                6/27     TBA              TBA
ASA, BRAINERD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY(L)6/27     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (L)                 6/27     4:00-6:30PM      ESPN
NHRA, HEARTLAND GRANDNATIONAL (L)     6/27     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27     9:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, DETROIT (T)            6/28     1:00AM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)              7/3      11:00AM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, PORTLAND (T)           7/3      8:00PM           ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (L)          7/3      9:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (L)                 7/4      7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
BUSCH GN, MILWAUKEE (?)               7/4      TBA              TBA
PIKES PEAK (?)                        7/4     (live coverage unlikely)
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (SD)                7/4     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IHRA NATIONALS, LIECESTER (T)         7/10     5:30PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/10     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SILVERSTONE, ENGLAND (L)   7/11     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
SCCA TRANS-AM, DES MOINES (L)         7/11     12:30PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, NEW HAMPSHIRE (L)        7/11     1:00PM           TNN
INDYCAR, CLEVELAND (L)                7/11     1:30-3:30PM    ABC,TSN
IMSA GTP, ROAD AMERICA (L)            7/11     4:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, HALIFAX (SD)              7/11     5:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, CLEV. OR F1, ENGLAND ?(SD)   7/11    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, TORONTO (?)               7/17     5:00-6:30PM      TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/17     8:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               7/18     12:00PM          TBS
INDYCAR, TORONTO (L) ?                7/18     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
INDYCAR, TORONTO (SD) ?               7/18     4:00-6:00PM      ABC
BUSCH GN, TALLADEGA (?)               7/24     TBA              TBA
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/24     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (L)    7/25     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, TALLADEGA (L)            7/25     12:15PM          CBS
PIKES PEAK (T)                        7/25     TBA              ESPN
IMSA, LAGUNA SECA (?)                 7/25     TBA              TBA
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (SD)   7/25    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
S.N.THUNDER (L)                       7/31     8:00PM           ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, SEARS POINT (T)        8/1      12:00PM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (L)                 8/1      2:00-5:00PM      ABC
ASA, HEARTLAND PARK RACEWAY,TOPEKA (L)8/1      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (SD)                8/1     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IMSA GTP, PORTLAND (T)                8/2      12:00AM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (T)                 8/2      2:30AM           TSN
BUSCH GN, INDIANAPOLIS (T)            8/7      8:00-10:00PM     ESPN
IHRA SUMMER NATIONALS, ATCO (T)       8/7      10:00PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, WATKINS GLEN (L)         8/8      1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LOUDON (L)                   8/8      3:30-5:30PM   ESPN,TSN
F ATLANTIC, NEW HAMPSHIRE (T)         8/9      7:30PM           TSN
BUSCH GN, MICHIGAN (L)                8/14     1:00PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        8/14     8:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LOUDON (SD)                  8/14    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, BUDAPEST, HUNGARY (L)      8/15     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             8/15     12:30PM          ESPN
NHRA NATIONALS, SONOMA (T)            8/15     3:30PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, TROIS RIVIERES (L)        8/15     5:00PM           TSN
FORMULA 1, BUDAPEST, HUNGARY (SD)     8/15    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
BUSCH GN, NEW HAMPSHIRE (?)           8/22     TBA              TBA
NHRA NATIONALS, SEATTLE (T)           8/22     1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, ROAD AMERICA (L)             8/22     2:00-4:30PM   ESPN,TSN
INDYCAR, ROAD AMERICA (SD)            8/22    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out SRC. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for 
info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 18 14:12:32 1993
Subject: My Straight Six
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5593
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



  Recently, I have taken my pride and joy (and only engine), 
which was a stock Chevy 250 Straight-6 engine, and have converted 
it into an axle twisting power mongrel.  This involved getting the 
engine balanced, installing a 465CFM Holley 4-bbl, a tuned intake 
manifold, a set of headers, a 218/218 (at .050") degree duration 
camshaft, and an MSD ignition.  After running for a while, I have 
some questions that perhaps some of you may be able to answer:

  First off, my middle two cylinders are running leaner than 
the remaining four outer cylinders.  Does anybody know what might 
cause this? I've been told to get a carburetor spacer -or- to get 
a carburetor base heater.  (I have not, as of yet, installed the 
carburetor heat stove pipe).  Don't both of these accessories do 
the opposite of each other? Which might help, and why?

  Secondly, when I recently removed the head, the exhaust 
valves were completely yellow.  I have assumed this is from an 
over-advanced ignition timing.  I have an adjustable timing control 
and for flat out highway driving, I can advance the timing 15 
degrees without any ping problem.  Is there anything wrong with 
having the timing so far advanced, as long as the engine doesn't 
knock or ping? What exactly is the yellow deposits, and how 
harmful is it to the engine?

  I have my stock harmonic damper installed on the car, which 
has a rubber inertial ring.  A performance harmonic damper for the 
250 is ridiculously priced, and costs about a third of what I have 
already spent on my engine.  I have come across a Chevy Performance 
305 damper with a steel inertial ring.  It is the same exact size 
as my damper.  Is it possible I could use this damper instead? If 
not, why not, and do you have any other suggestions?

  Lastly, just out of curiosity, where can I get information on 
the different racing classes and the official rules of NASCAR 
racing?

  Any and all information/advice is greatly appreciated.




                                                    Jason

There are two kinds of solar-heat systems: "Passive" systems collect the
sunlight that hits your home, and "active" systems collect the sunlight
sunlight that hits your neighbors' homes, too.

(jcborkow@remus.rutgers.edu)
(jcborkow@trident.usacs.rutgers.edu)

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 19 08:04:29 1993
Subject: For Sale: '72 Chevelle Parts
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5594
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm parting out a '72 Chevelle, some of the good parts are:

        A perfect black dash with gauges.
        Air Conditioning (Everything)
        Entire Front End -- shallow crease in left front fender, otherwise
evertything is perfect, original white paint.  Hood is perfect.  Grille has
two nicked fins, bumper perfect, headlight trim, corner moldings perfect,
turn signal plastic and metal frames fine.  I have the whole front clip off
the car already.
        Black steering column and steering wheel.
        All the smog stuff:  manifolds, air pump, tubing, anti-gulp valve,
etc.
        Black seat belts
        Rear tail-lights
        Back bumper (has two shallow dimples) tail-lights fine.


        The car is a 4-door Malibu.  The script on the front fenders says
"350 Malibu".  I know that probably nobody's fixing up any four-door Malibus,
but the front clip is the same as on El Caminos and two-door Malibus.
The seats and door panels are perfect (they were sealed in clear plastic when
the car was new by the original owner) but I know that probably nobody wants
them.

        I'm willing to sell this stuff pretty reasonably.  I can ship small
stuff, but not the hood, bumper, etc.

        If there's anything that you might need off this car, let me know.
I'll be sending what's left of it to the scrap-heap in about a month or so.

        Tom Carver

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 19 08:09:17 1993
Subject: My Straight Six
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5595
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> knock or ping? What exactly is the yellow deposits, and how
-> harmful is it to the engine?

 The yellow is crap left from additives in crummy gas.  There's not much
you can do about it.


-> has a rubber inertial ring.  A performance harmonic damper for the
-> 250 is ridiculously priced, and costs about a third of what I have

 Why do you want a steel damper?  The NHRA Safety Nazis have taken it
upon themselves to decide that, after over 75 years or more of use, cast
iron dampers are unsafe, but previous racing and street use doesn't seem
to back up their paranoia.  The steel damper will accomplish nothing
other than lightening your wallet.


-> First off, my middle two cylinders are running leaner than the
-> remaining four outer cylinders.  Does anybody know what might cause
-> this? I've been told to get a carburetor spacer -or- to get

 Stock sixes have sucko intake manifolding, as you probably noticed when
you pulled the old boat anchor off.  The center cylinders typically rin
'way rich.  Sounds like whoever did your aftermarket intake
overcompensated a bit.

 The carburetor spacer can help.  So could turning the carb 90 degrees
on the intake, but the spacer is probably simpler.
        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 19 08:14:28 1993
Subject: Re: 396 and Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5596
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Could someone explain what siamesed cylinder bores are?  Why do they
-> affect cooling?

 Siamesed bores are joined to the cylinders on each side.  That means
water cannot circulate all the way around the bores.  This causes them
to turn slightly elliptical when they get hot.  They don't turn THAT
elliptical - for example, the head bolts on a small block Chevy anchor
on the cylinder sleeves, and when you tighten the head the bore turns
pentagonal - but it can sometimes be a problem.  On the other hand,
joining the sleeves together can make them stronger.  You win some, you
lose some.


->  For that matter, what are siamesed int/ex ports?

 This has one runner servicing two valves.  A look at a Chevy six with
the intake off will show siamesed ports.  The 301 Pontiac has siamesed
intake ports, Olds and Pontiac V8s usually have the center exhaust ports
siamesed.

 Siamesing disrupts airflow on the intake side, and causes scavenging
problems and exhaust valve overheating on the exhaust side.  Engine
makers used to do it because it simplified the castings.
       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 19 08:19:28 1993
Subject: 375HP Street-Legal Mustang Engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5597
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hotrodders,
	Can you help me out? About 8 or 9 months ago, I saw an article about
a turbo'd 5.0 that had been given the thumbs-up sign by CARB at 3755ponies.
The article said they were working on approving the 450HP version as well.

Anyway, I can't find that article. I thought it was turbo magazine. Anybody out
there know who makes this beast, and where I can contact them?

My friend has a convertible with a V6, and the six is headed for the scrap heap.

Thanks in advance,
	Vince Reed
	UCSF division of Surgery

----------
Posted by: Vince Reed 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 19 08:22:31 1993
Subject: Re: 396 and Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5598
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi.  Well, I was thinking of using a small-block, but I figured if I was
going to purchase a new engine, I'd just go for the 502 right from GM.

You're right, I don't like the siamesed cylinders in the 400 small-blocks.
The siamesed cylinders means that they don't have any cooling passages between
the cylinders and tend to have cooling problems, and I've seen one too
many for me to go for a 400 over a 350 (I'd just make the 350 into a 383.)

But, I prefer big-blocks anyway, and the bang for the buck for a street 
engine seems to be the 502, as you can get a complete long-block with 
oval-port heads for around $4300, with rect-port heads $3900 (the oval-port
heads actually work better in this engine up until 7000RPM, so they are
a better deal for the street.)

-- Steve

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 19 08:26:49 1993
Subject: Siamesed
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5599
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 The name comes from Siamese twins, two siblings joined by one or more parts.

 Siamesed cylinder bores have their walls merger for some part of their 
periphery. This prevents coolant flow between them and results in extra
differential heating. In extreme use situations this may lead to cooling
problems, warping, etc. Siamesed bores are usually the result of an
engine type's modification to its utter displacement limit, to the end
that there's no room for anything but cylinders.

 Siamesed exhaust ports mean that two cylinders share one exhaust hole in
the head, a "Y" configuration. Old Caddy I had did this; others too I imagine.
Not the best configuration for exhaust system design since one leg of the
exhaust header will have twice as many pulses as the other two. Usually done
to motors nobody would normally think of as performance material. Maybe why.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 19 08:31:59 1993
Subject: Olds 350 vs Chevy 350
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5600
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In 1977, Olds was using primarily OLDS 350's in Cutlasses.  There is a 
real easy way to spot the Olds Engine:  1) The Oil fill is at the Front
of the engine in a standup tube. 2) There is a "hook" 1/2" water hose
between the intake and the water pump assembly.  

The only parts common between the two engines are the points and the
Quadrajet Carburetor.

With regard to valve noise, I can give you some firsthand experience.
The Olds rockers are PEDESTAL mounted in PAIRS.  The pedestals are aluminum
and they will wear off center, allowing the rocker to go off center and
subsequently wear the valve stem tips at a bevel, eventually causing valve tick.If you are lucky, you can just replace the pedestals and rocker arms and
be fine for quite a while.  If the noise is more severe, you may have to
get the heads worked and the valve stem tips ground flat.  

Caution on Olds valve jobs:  The valvetrain is non-adjustable.  If your heads
are milled, valves and tips reground, you may have a problem in that you
are now outside the range of travel of the lifters (ouch), and valves may
stay off their seats (I had this happen).  Then you have 3 options: get the
job done correctly, use adjustable pushrods ($), or the best option is to
buy one of the Olds to Chevy valvetrain conversion kits allowing the use
of guideplates, studs and adjustable rocker arms.  This whole mess is thanks
to cost cutting design which was used from 1964 until the last 307 ran
off the Olds engine line.  

I hope this all helps.

Ned Wilmarth
nwilmart@digi.lonestar.org

----------
Posted by: NED 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 19 12:42:10 1993
Subject: Carter 4bbl...model 9410/9510 ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5601
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


*>>> Please oh great netpool of rodding.......

     G'day again from the land of Oz. Can anybody over there help
     me to locate a Carter (no longer in production) 4bbl carby 
     model no.9410 I think. It is rated at 400 cfm and takes the
     same mounting flange as a small (eg.390 cfm) 4bbl Holley. I will 
     only be able to use 1. Brand new (don't all rush at once).
                         2. Second hand but not too much...B->
                         3. Reconditioned.
                         4. Needing recondition but with ness.parts.
     I have not been able to locate a single example over here and the
     prototype manifold goes on the little Buick in two weeks. It will
     have to be in good shape 'cause parts here are non-existent and it 
     needs to last a few years, at which point I will go back to the 390
     Holley if I can't rebuild it then. Don't flame me....I *like* Holley
     carbys...we run two of 'em on our flathead. But this is an experiment
     with a manifold designed for this carby on this (215 bored out to 240)
     little alloy Buick (nee:Rover). If it works we'll get 30 mpg. No I'm
     not crazy. But I am an Australian. This is also a "lean burn" or more
     rightly a "mean burn" manifold which we are certain can play a part in
     getting our rides past the new emissions standards being proposed which
     is starting to put the squeeze on old car drivers...unrightly so in the
     case of *most* hotrodders. I guess I won't see any of you down on the
     street...but if I try real hard (and you all rev your engines in unison)
     I might just hear you eh ? Check ya later...
                                                 Bigfoot.



-- 
  ___________________________________________________________________  
|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  ||
||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
  -------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU!rxkgre (Geof Evans)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Jun 20 02:42:49 1993
Subject: Olds 350 to Chevy 350 Swap (or is it visa-versa)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5602
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


How difficult to put a Chevy 350 in a 1977 Cutlass Calis, in place of an
Olds 350 R?  The trans is the same I believe, but will the mounts and the 
drive shaft length all match up correctly?  Has anyone ever done this that
would like to make any suggestions?  

Thanks again guys.

Take care,

SJRD

PS.  How do I reach, via E-mail, the people from the Dixie system via 
E-mail.  I tried to send a few thanks but the mail kept bouncing back.

----------
Posted by: emory!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!bphdarcy (Sean J. Roc D'Arcy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Jun 20 02:52:09 1993
Subject: Olds 350 vs Chevy 350
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5603
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> stay off their seats (I had this happen).  Then you have 3 options:
-> get the job done correctly, use adjustable pushrods ($), or the best
-> option is to buy one of the Olds to Chevy valvetrain conversion kits
-> allowing the use of guideplates, studs and adjustable rocker arms.

 No big deal.  Ford has also used nonadjustable valvetrains for years.
Fortunately, Olds made the bases of the rocker pedestals flat, and for
about $5 you can buy a shim kit to reset the lifter travel without
resorting to expensive fixes.
                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Jun 20 02:55:16 1993
Subject: Carter 4bbl...model 9410/9510 ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5604
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->    me to locate a Carter (no longer in production) 4bbl carby
->    model no.9410 I think. It is rated at 400 cfm and takes the

 Edelbrock picked up the Carter tooling from Federal-Mogul, but they're
only making the 625 and 750 cfm versions.  I tried to locate a 400 or
500 for my wife's RX7, but had to settle for a 625.  Fortunately the
AFBs are quite tuneable.


->    prototype manifold goes on the little Buick in two weeks. It will

 Prototype manifold?  What'cha doin?
                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Jun 20 17:51:18 1993
Subject: kit car stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5605
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 Kit Car Magazine is now Specialty Car Magazine; I dunno when they
changed.  I picked up an issue last night.  The mag seemed to mostly
concern Cobra kits.

 There were a few interesting pieces of information, true or not.  An
editorial said that SAAC (Shelby) had lost its trademark suit with Ford
over the Cobra name; the court reportedly ruled Ford had done nothing
with the name since the old Cobra days, so it was no longer a trademark
and now in the public domain.  While interesting, this doesn't quite sit
right.  In the mid '70s Ford sold the pathetic Mustang II Cobra with
horrible gorpy graphics on the sides.  Later they sold an equally
pathetic Mustang III.  Actually, there have been several different
Mustang III "Cobras", including one in current production.  It's
interesting, anyway.

[Disclaimer:  I ain't no P&T lawyer but I've bought quite a few.  As I 
understand the law, a trademark is deemed abandoned if due dilligence is
not exercized to protect it.  This is one reason notices of trademark
infringement are so snotty and why most companies so vigorously persue
infringement.  In this instance Ford did nothing for years to protect its
trademark against the clone makers.  Another aspect is the fact that 
a trademark registration must be renewed after a period of time and 
specific application must be made to make the trademark "durable" - that
is permanent and presumed valid.  Until then the mark can be challenged
and the holder must prove it valid.  Plus the registration can expire
if not re-registered.  Ford may have neglected to re-register the mark
because they may have viewed the Cobra as a one-shot program.  Finally
"Cobra" may have been deemed a word in common usage by the P&T office. 
If so, then registration is much more difficult and easier to challenge.
It may be that they had to register the snake logo along with the word
"Cobra".  This is all shootin' from the derrier since I've seen nothing 
first hand on the case.  JGD]

 An article on a replicar mentioned the Packard name was now the
property of one C. Budd Bayliff of Van Vert, OH.  He's building
Packard-style replicars.  The same article mentioned the Studebaker name
"had slid off into oblivion", though whether that means it has reverted
to public domain or merely means the name is not often recognized is
questionable.  I had thought Avanti Corp. had the rights to the
Studebaker name, but it might have died out when the original company
moved to Canada.

 Finally, a small classified ad in the back - "Kit car company for sale
- $45,000."  Kelmark, 4633 Lambeth Way, Holt, MI 48842. 517-694-8098
after 6 PM.
                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Jun 20 18:38:57 1993
Subject: Olds 350 to Chevy 350 Swap (or is it visa-versa)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5606
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> How difficult to put a Chevy 350 in a 1977 Cutlass Calis, in place of
-> an Olds 350 R?  The trans is the same I believe, but will the mounts
-> and the drive shaft length all match up correctly?

 The Chevy's bolt pattern at the transmission is different, and will not
mate to the Olds transmission.  The motor mounts, starter, exhaust
manifolds, and exhaust pipes are different.  You'd also need all the
proper Chevy brackets for the p/s and air - and for the correct side.

 It's not a difficult swap, but frankly I think you'd be better off
building up the Olds 350.  If you get the hots for mega-power, simply
drop in a 400, 425, or 455 Olds.  Everything bolts right up, except
you'll need to do a little fiddling with the air conditioner brackets
unless you get the bracket from the big motor.  The weight difference is
50 pounds, which you'll probably never notice.

 It'd take a LOT of 350 Chevy to compete against even a stock,
smog-legal 455.  Depending on the year, the big Olds was rated at as
high as FIVE HUNDRED foot-pounds of torque, and they'd do it on regular
gas.  As the Australians say, "there's no replacement for displacement."

 If you want a high-winding motor, look for an Olds 403.
                                                                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Jun 20 23:43:26 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5607
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Path: VM1.MCGILL.CA
From: DPGP058 
Subject: RE: Carter 4bbl...model 9410/9510 ?
Message-ID: <20JUN93.19774832.0071@VM1.MCGILL.CA>
Lines: 19
Sender: usenet@MUSICA.MCGILL.CA
Organization: McGill University
References:  
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1993 23:18:36 GMT

In article  hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>
>->    me to locate a Carter (no longer in production) 4bbl carby
>->    model no.9410 I think. It is rated at 400 cfm and takes the
>
> Edelbrock picked up the Carter tooling from Federal-Mogul, but they're
>only making the 625 and 750 cfm versions.  I tried to locate a 400 or
>500 for my wife's RX7, but had to settle for a 625.  Fortunately the
>AFBs are quite tuneable.
>
>.
I recently picked-up an Edelbrock(Carter AFB) 600 cfm for my '85
Mustang 5.0 ... Their catalogue includes 500 cfm AFBs all the way
to 750 cfm.  The 500 cfm might be what you're looking for, although
I think it's only available with a manual choke. And yes, they are
quite tuneable.

Gerry

----------
Posted by: emory!sifon.cc.mcgill.ca!news
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 21 03:38:03 1993
Subject: Re: For Sale: '72 Chevelle Parts
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5608
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:

>I'm parting out a '72 Chevelle, some of the good parts are:

>        Black seat belts

How much do you want for these?  My roomate needs a set for his '66 Chevelle
so that it will pass safety inspection at the local track.... Also does it
have:
an overflow tank
4bbl carb and intake

Thanks.

-- 
.--------------------------.-----------------------------------------------.
| Mike Golden              | '79 Buick Regal:                              |
| mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu |  Chevy 350cid, TH350, 4bbl Qjet, dual exhaust |
`--------------------------'-----------------------------------------------'

----------
Posted by: emory!cwis.unomaha.edu!mgolden (Brian Golden)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 21 03:43:23 1993
Subject: kit car stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5609
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> specific application must be made to make the trademark "durable" -
-> that is permanent and presumed valid.  Until then the mark can be
-> challenged and the holder must prove it valid.  Plus the registration
-> can expire

 Is there a simple, inexpensive way I can tell if a trademark is valid
or has lapsed?  Is that sort of information online anywhere, or will a
simple letter to the P&T Office do, or do I have to buy a judge?
              
[Unfortunately no.  The problem is not only are trademarks registered
with the P&T office which is only partially computerized, states also
recognize STATE registration.  When I was researching "Performance
Engineering" for the magazine, I paid an information broker specializing
in P&T matters about $100 to research the name.  She found similar hits
in at least 5 databases.  I took these hits to my P&T lawyer (who
recommended I use a broker instead of paying her 3X to do the same job)
for an opinion.  Her opinion was that the hits were not close enough
to prohibit my registration but that it may take several rounds of 
communications with the PO examiner.  I decided to wait a year or so and
then go back with a "common usage" registration.  "Common usage" is 
a method of trademarking a name that might not otherwise qualify by 
proving that the name has been linked to the product or company by common
usage.  I did file a "reservation" (think of it as a placeholder at the
Patent Office) for when I do decide to do the registration.
This kind of stuff makes me want to toss {my hands up, cookies}
so I take the "handle it, handle it" attitude with my attorney.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 21 15:48:16 1993
Subject: Custom pulleys
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5610
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Any idea where I can get some custom pulleys.  Are there special shops
or should I just go to a machine shop and have one cut out of a block
of steel?

This is for a supercharged Rx7.  None of the performance Rx7 places
have what I need.

Thanks
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 21 15:59:04 1993
Subject: Re: Carter 4bbl...model 9410/9510 ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5611
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

> Prototype manifold?  What'cha doin?

>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

*>>> A couple of race engineers (Traco Oldsmobile, Allan Moffat, Repco F1 1966)
     are developing a range of intake manifolds to finally rid the V8 of it's
     longterm "gas guzzler" identity in an effort to stave off pending efforts
     to legislate them out of existence due to their *inefficiant* fuel use.
     The trick is to retune the intake runners regarding length of inlet tract
     and configuration of cylinders paired together. The basic design hasn't
     been changed since the fifties or before and the prototypes so far test
     benched have indicated 30-35 mpg possible. We have monitored fuel burn
     efficiency at the spark plug and have seen it vary from 20% rich at idle
     to 20% lean at 3000 rpm, and other cylinders the exact opposite ! This new
     design is being developed under the brief of mean fuel efficiency to rest
     somewhere between 3% lean or 3% rich at all rpm...of course 0% would be         ideal but walk before you crawl I always say. This is not a *power* intake
     manifold as such but 100% fuel efficiency must generate the maximum amount
     of available power from every litre (ne:gallon B->...) of fuel burned.
     Believe it or not we want to try and offer a way to save all those ol'
     bent eights from the scrap heap...and stop the govt. having cause to mess
     with all those rodders who would prefer to keep using an *old* style of
     engine as against the newer fuel injected electroniclly managed Northstar
     (albeit a great NEW design) type of modern V8 engine...such as BMW, Audi
     Lincoln etc. are launching from now on. Why can't you keep your Y-block,
     289, Flathead, Hemi or mouse...if it get's 30+ mpg and passes the EPA
     test (lean or "mean" burn tuning is gonna help in this regard !) then
     they have less REAL reason to legislate against us. Besides...if this sort      of economy is locked inside my engine (potentially) then I want it's
     reality in my pocket...wouldn't you ??? So far we have prototyped intakes
     for Chevy smallblock...Cleveland smallblock (Windsor to follow)...Holden
     (an Oz derivative) 253/308...and the Buick/Oldsmobile/Rover alloy V8.
     The Chevy version is at the foundry being cast in first generation form.
     I guess that's what we're doin'. Thanks for the imfo on Eldelbrock's
     production of the Carter style range...I'll try to write them for details.
     You couldn't find a 400 cfm (9410) for the RX-7...when rejetted did the 
     625 cfm work out OK ?
                          Check ya later alligator,
                          In a while crocodile.
                                               Bigfoot.


[ (this isn't criticism, just a different perspective.)  I wonder why you 
are in effect, trying to re-invent the wheel?  While some economy can be
gained from equalizing fuel/air distribution, several intractable emissions
and economy will remain as long as the fuel introduction point is 
significantly upstream of the intake valve.  A wetted intake necessitates
acceleration enrichment which harms economy and is the major source of 
coasting emissions.  The latter is particularly difficult to deal with.

The industry has determined that electronic injection is the only way to 
solve the problems.  I agree (no surprise :-)  At the same time I understand
and appreciate your desire to retain the appearance and simplicity of a carb 
atop a low-rise manifold.  Why not do an innovative combination of the
two technologies?  Design a manifold so that port injection is done 
from the UNDERSIDE where the injectors would be invisible.  Use the
carb as a throttle body and flowmeter.  The venturi signal could be 
routed to a monolithic DP sensor that could be hidden literally inside
the choke bimetal housing.  This would be a mass flow system that 
could self-tune to the extent one standard map per engine family would
work.  This would be a little more expensive than a strictly carburator
installation but it WOULD meet any emission standard in effect today
including evaporative emissions.  JGD]

-- 
  ___________________________________________________________________  
|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  ||
||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
  -------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!rxkgre (Geof Evans)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 21 16:07:38 1993
Subject: Re:  My Straight Six
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5612
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

->  Why do you want a steel damper?  The NHRA Safety Nazis have taken it
-> upon themselves to decide that, after over 75 years or more of use, cast
-> iron dampers are unsafe, but previous racing and street use doesn't seem
-> to back up their paranoia.  The steel damper will accomplish nothing
-> other than lightening your wallet.
-> 
-> ----------
-> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
->  
-> 
-> 
Regarding steel vs. cast iron dampers.  I thought that the choice
was primarily a matter of RPM.  Cast iron being perfectly acceptable
for up to around 5500 or 5800 RPM, (similar to the upper RPM limit
of a cast crank, and cast pistons), and anything more required the
use of a steel damper (and also a steel crank and forged pistons).

George Kulp

----------
Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 21 16:40:09 1993
Subject: More on Cobra Saga
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5613
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>From classic-mustangs-request@mustang.fc.hp.com Mon Jun 21 05:34:13 1993

Could Shelby he headed for the Slammer?

  An article in the July 1993 issue of Car and Driver magazine reveals some
surprising new details about Carroll Shelby's recent run in with the law after
resuming Cobra production.

Shelby has claimed that the Cobra's were being constructed on leftover
chassis' from the original run of 427's which commenced in 1965.  Paul
Dean of the Los Angeles Times revealed that Shelby told him that the 43
chassis had in fact been produced by Cobra restorer Mike McCluskey over
the past three years and Shelby had requested that they be left outside
exposed to the elements to make them appear to be "authentic" What
really laded the ol' Snake Charmer in deep doo doo was when he acquired
duplicate titles from the DMV for the chassis, claiming the originals
had been lost.

The plot thickens!  It seems that Shelby had approached the owner of AC
Cars, Ltd.  (who produced the original Cobra chassis), Brian Angliss in
1987 about the producing the new frames, further requesting that they be
shipped into the U.S.  labeled as "washing machine parts."  When Angliss
refused Shelby made some rather unkind remarks about AC Cars to which
Angliss responded with a libel suit ( from which Angliss was the
victor).  Thus for 9 buyers have anteed up the $500,000 dollars for what
Shelby has maintained were 1965 Cobra's.  Needless to say, the
purchasers are not amused.  Shelby maintains he has done nothing wrong
since the 30 frames contain "pieces' of the original frames.  The
California DMV thinks otherwise though, it has launched an investigation
into how Shebly was able to acquire new titles for never registered
vehicles.

The whole thing brings to mind the tale of the Farmers Axe.  He had the
same axe for 50 years, he had only replaced the head three times and the
handle 12 times, but, he had been using the same axe for 50 years.

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 21 16:44:50 1993
Subject: Holley 4010 and 4011
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5614
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I was wondering if anyone has any experience/knowledge/folklore that
they could share on using one of the new Holley 4010/4011 carbs.

The application I am considering one for would be on a mild chev 327
in a '64 Nova.  This car is used daily on the street.

The alternatives I am considering are an older Holley, probably spread
bore, and Q-jet.

>From what I have read, the 4010/4011 would be a nice carb for the car,
but I am not sure it would be worth the added cost.


Thanks,

-Kevin

kevinf@sequent.com

----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 21 17:48:03 1993
Subject: Re:375 hp street legal 5.0
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5615
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Vince Reed asks about the turbo kits for the 5.0.
The company is Turbo Technologt inc.
6229 so. Adams, Tacoma Wa. 98409
They have the 375 & 450 hp kits carb. exempt- orders no. D-140-26 & 27.
They start at $2995 (I think that is for the 300 hp kit) for the twin
turbo kit.

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 10:23:13 1993
Subject: Re: 375HP Street-Legal Mustang Engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5616
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The current issue of (I think) Super Ford has a 
review of this system.  I've seen ads for it in Muscle Mustangs & Fast Fords.
The company name escapes me right now, but look through MM&FF or Super Ford
at your newstand and you should find it.  If you can't, E-mail and I'll find
you the name from my mags.

  -- Dino --


----------
Posted by: emory!Engn.Uwindsor.Ca!dbortol (Dino Bortolin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 10:32:54 1993
Subject: Re: Holley 4010 and 4011
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5617
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Kevin Fultz asks about various carburetors, including the Holley
replacement for the Quadrajet.

I had one of those Holley spreadbores once.  Total junk.  It idled
lousy, had a bad tip-in stumble (which was made worse by the Holley
field man when he drilled out the pump shooter nozzles), and was
very difficult to install because the left front mounting hole is
essentially covered up by various parts of the carburetor.

BTW, I finally diagnosed the tip-in stumble.  The shooter nozzles
were too _large_ and the fuel was just dripping onto the top of the
butterfly plates instead of spraying into the air stream.  Smaller
shooter nozzles fixed it.  But the idle problem wasn't fixable.

Bob Hale

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 10:44:36 1993
Subject: Re: Carter 4bbl...model 9410/9510 ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5618
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> significantly upstream of the intake valve.  A wetted intake
-> necessitates acceleration enrichment which harms economy and is the
-> major source of coasting emissions.  The latter is particularly
-> difficult to deal with.

 FYI, the GM Tuned Port Injection uses a snotload of acceleration
enrichment, based on the delta-time from the throttle position sensor.
As far as I can tell they do it to enhance throttle response.  I had an
old Mustang with a 302 and the Autolite 2bbl on it once.  I found that I
could disconnect the accelerator pump entirely (very easy on the
Autolite) and the throttle response got a little soggy, but nothing
you'd really complain about.  It was a pain to start, though.

[True TPI introduces a bit of acceleration enrichment.  The system on my
wife's toyota does the same thing.  BUT!  It is a matter of degree.
The toyota system fires two extra asynchronous pulses during acceleration.
That amounts to perhaps 1-2 CCs extra.  Compare that to the 10 cc stock
Holly accelerator pump or the optional 50 cc pump it required to get rid of
the flat spot on my Z with a 390 CFM carb.  There is hidden enrichment in
some systems that is not apparent at first glance.  Dumping the vacuum
in the intake volume through a relatively small carb/throttle body such as
with your old Mustang provides momentary extra gas.  Ditto with mass flow
FI systems.  In the old L-jetronic FI systems with the flapper air flow 
meter, there is even more enrichment from the inertia of the flapper.
This is tuned by adjusting the clearance of the damping vane.  In 
all cases the amount of gas involved is small compared to performance
carb setups.  JGD]

 The TPI also richens the mixture at idle and during cold running.
According to the service manuals, the AFR can hit 4:1!
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 12:41:27 1993
Subject: Re:  My Straight Six
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5619
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Regarding steel vs. cast iron dampers.  I thought that the choice was
-> primarily a matter of RPM.  Cast iron being perfectly acceptable for
-> up to around 5500 or 5800 RPM, (similar to the upper RPM limit of a
-> cast crank, and cast pistons), and anything more required the use of
-> a steel damper (and also a steel crank and forged pistons).

 Not that I'm aware of.  Pro Stock drag racers have been turning upwards
of 9,000 RPM since the early '70s with plain old stock Chevy cast iron
dampers.  The NASCAR boys typically run 1,500-2,000 RPM less.

 Cast cranks and pistons aren't limited by RPM in any way.  They're just
not real amenable to detonation, which is what usually destroys most
extremely high output engines.
                                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 15:39:50 1993
Subject: Re: 375HP Street-Legal Mustang Engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5620
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article zh0wy0n@dixie.com, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> Hotrodders,
> 	Can you help me out? About 8 or 9 months ago, I saw an article about
> a turbo'd 5.0 that had been given the thumbs-up sign by CARB at 3755ponies.
> The article said they were working on approving the 450HP version as well.
> 
> Anyway, I can't find that article. I thought it was turbo magazine. Anybody out
> there know who makes this beast, and where I can contact them?
> 
> My friend has a convertible with a V6, and the six is headed for the scrap heap.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 	Vince Reed
> 	UCSF division of Surgery
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: Vince Reed 


There was a test on this kit in the Jan. '93 Car Craft.
It is made by 
DDMI/Spearco
Dept.CC
14664 Titus St.
Panorama City,
CA 91402
818/901-7851
FAX:818/785-4362

Cost is $5000 for the 375HP, $8500 for the 450HP.
It looks awesome if you got the bucks!!!!!!

----------
Posted by: emory!cray.com!rjm (Roger Mrdutt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 15:50:17 1993
Subject: Re: Carter 4bbl...model 9410/9510 ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5621
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  jgd@dixie.com writes:
>The industry has determined that electronic injection is the only way to 
>solve the problems.  I agree (no surprise :-)  At the same time I understand
>and appreciate your desire to retain the appearance and simplicity of a carb 
>atop a low-rise manifold.  Why not do an innovative combination of the
>two technologies?  Design a manifold so that port injection is done 
>from the UNDERSIDE where the injectors would be invisible.  Use the
>carb as a throttle body and flowmeter.  The venturi signal could be 
>routed to a monolithic DP sensor that could be hidden literally inside
>the choke bimetal housing.  This would be a mass flow system that 
>could self-tune to the extent one standard map per engine family would
>work.  This would be a little more expensive than a strictly carburator
>installation but it WOULD meet any emission standard in effect today
>including evaporative emissions.  JGD]

	It would also make it a pain to service the injectors, as you'd have
to pull the manifold to do so.  Form should follow function, not vice versa.

[Not if one wants the system to look "traditional".  JGD]

Off my soapbox,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 15:54:19 1993
Subject: Simple differential question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5622
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 When you refer to a ring gear as, say, 8.50", to what dimension does that
refer? Outer diameter, bolt circle, tooth centerline, inner diameter... ?

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 15:58:49 1993
Subject: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5623
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                          SUBJECT:  Pistons
[..Cast cranks and pistons aren't limited by RPM in any way.  They're just not
real amenable to detonation, which is what usually destroys most extremely high
output engines....]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)...]

This brings up a question in my mind about piston materials ....

Good ol' cast pistons have been used as OEM for decades.  They are cheap and
durable enough for most applications.  Pretty much a known quantity.

Forged pistons have traditionally been the performance alternative.  It is my
understanding they are much more forgiving of detonation and are stronger than
their cast equivalents.  They also require looser tolerances, due to their
thermal characteristics ... i.e. they "grow" more as they heat up.  That's
sometimes why you hear a deep "knock" or slight "clatter" on performance motors
with forged pistons on cold startup.  As they heat up the clearance tighten and
the noise stops.   (At least that's they way it has been explained to me ... is
this right?)

Now there is alot of hype about the hyperuetectic (sp?) or high silcon steel
pistons.  What's the deal here?  Are these a "Good Thing" or a "Bad Thing"? 
Failing that generalization ... are they good for some applications and bad for
others?

A friend of mine put them in his Buick GS Stage I motor last year and they were
basically destroyed by the end of the summer.  He took it to the track only 3
times that summer.  His 455 is relatively mild with 10.5:1 compression, MSD
ignition, Mickey Thompson headers, KB107 cam, and B4B intake.  It has run 13.0s
on street tires at 105 mph through the mufflers.

Anywa, I saw some of the pistons ... one was actually missing pieces of the
outer edge and the others all showed some degree of cracking or breakage.  The
spec sheet wasn't included with the pistons from the distributor and the
machine shop set them up to"normal" clearances, somewhere around 0.020".   (In
fact, NO literature of any kind was in any of the boxes the pistons came in) 
After my friend wrote a letter complaining about the pistons, Federal Mogul,
who turns out to be the manufacturer, responded that they should have been set
up at 0.010" (tight!) ... and that they had no control over the aftermarket
distributors, blah, blah, blah.  Basically, a "not our fault" thing.  Kind of
disappointing that the tone of the letter was so condescending, instead of
constructive and helpful, since alot of the information concerning set up was
quite good.

My question is ... any opinions on hyperuetectic pistons?  What is their
advantage over traditional alternatives?  I freely admit that misapplication of
a product can cause bad results, but then I don't think my friend really knew
exactly WHY the pistons were supposedly the hot setup for his motor.
 


-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  A *BOOST* of Buick Performance

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 16:13:44 1993
Subject: Re:  My Straight Six
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5624
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Jun 21, 11:56pm, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: Re:  My Straight Six
> 
> -> Regarding steel vs. cast iron dampers.  I thought that the choice was
> -> primarily a matter of RPM.  Cast iron being perfectly acceptable for
> -> up to around 5500 or 5800 RPM, (similar to the upper RPM limit of a
> -> cast crank, and cast pistons), and anything more required the use of
> -> a steel damper (and also a steel crank and forged pistons).
> 
>  Not that I'm aware of.  Pro Stock drag racers have been turning upwards
> of 9,000 RPM since the early '70s with plain old stock Chevy cast iron
> dampers.  The NASCAR boys typically run 1,500-2,000 RPM less.
> 
>Sunday during the Michigan 400 the Thunderbird crowd, i.e. Mark Martin/
Jack Roush were running their car around 8900rpm and clearly were running
away from everyone throughout the race.  I believe they commonly run the 
motors in the 8500 rpm range.  They interviewed Roush and this particular
area was a discussion point during the race.   
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)



-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive(brattlan@speedway.net| ( Ford 302 Tri-Power  
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   | 4 spd, 9 inch )
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 22 21:56:56 1993
Subject: 63-67 Corvettes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5625
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Although this is not a "Hot Rod" specific question, I am hoping for some
feedback. I have been looking for a 63-67 BB Corvette to restore for 
a while. Is there anyone out there who has an opinon (or should I say
Corvette specfic opinion) as to which Corvette year is a better one. I know
as far as BB goes, I'm looking at 65-67. 
I've been leaning towards the 67/427 concept. Are there any pros or cons with
this idea? I guess another question would be, are there any BB Corvettes
left out there to restore or are they all already gone. I can't seem to find
a matching number vette under $35,000. Is this reality?

Any comments?

Tim Brazil       
Oakland, CA

brazil@ingres.com

----------
Posted by: emory!ingres.com!brazil (Ya can't git dare from here)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 06:51:03 1993
Subject: RE: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5626
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



>Now there is alot of hype about the hyperuetectic (sp?) or high silcon steel
>pistons.  What's the deal here?  Are these a "Good Thing" or a "Bad Thing"? 
>Failing that generalization ... are they good for some applications and bad for
>others?

Most pistons are aluminum even the hyperuetectic (sp?).  Cast pistons
have their place but if your going to spend $3000 on a rebuild spend the
extra $200 and get forged.  Tight machining and longer connecting rods
(small Chevy) will limit the rock at TDC.

[Depending on the application, I'd conditionally argue otherwise.  While
they've improved them quite a bit, forged pistons still need lots of 
clearance which means cold and maybe hot noise, extra oil consumption and
relatively short ring life.  Hypereutetic pistons are almost as strong
as forged but retain the low expansion coefficient of cast.  Unless 
the machine is destined for high RPM use or can suffer severe detonation,
I'd not fool with forged.  Extra oil consumption is of particular concern
because oil in the combustion chamber lowers the octane of the mix
and leads to detonation.  Oh, lest I forget.  There seems to be two camps
at diametrical extremes regarding hypereutetic pistons.  One
camp says they're junk.  The other agrees with me.  Several engine
builders I respect as well as the performance branches of many OEMs 
recommend hypereutetic.  JGD]

>A friend of mine put them in his Buick GS Stage I motor last year and 
>they werebasically destroyed by the end of the summer.  He took it to the 
>track only 3
>times that summer.  His 455 is relatively mild with 10.5:1 compression, MSD
>ignition, Mickey Thompson headers, KB107 cam, and B4B intake.  It has run 13.0s
>on street tires at 105 mph through the mufflers.

>Anywa, I saw some of the pistons ... one was actually missing pieces of the
>outer edge and the others all showed some degree of cracking or breakage.  The

Could be pinging especially with 10.5:1.....

>spec sheet wasn't included with the pistons from the distributor and the
>machine shop set them up to"normal" clearances, somewhere around 0.020".   (In

Is that normal for _CAST_ pistons?

>fact, NO literature of any kind was in any of the boxes the pistons came in) 
>After my friend wrote a letter complaining about the pistons, Federal Mogul,
>who turns out to be the manufacturer, responded that they should have been set
>up at 0.010" (tight!) ... and that they had no control over the aftermarket

That sounds about right for cast.

>distributors, blah, blah, blah.  Basically, a "not our fault" thing.  Kind of
>disappointing that the tone of the letter was so condescending, instead of
>constructive and helpful, since alot of the information concerning set up was
>quite good.

[While the damage he describes sounds like detonation damage, 0.020 clearance
is terribly loose and could lead to skirt cracking or even ring land
breakage as the piston cocks.  My rule for cast piston clearance is
0.001 + (0.001 * diameter_in_inches) for engines I build for others.
This assumes a GOOD hone is used such as the Sunnen SK50 and that a 
deck plate is used during the boring and honing operation.  I set my 
own engines up tighter because I break the pistons and rings in by
motoring the engine with an electric motor before final assembly and can
catch any tight spots before damage is done.  I get a lot of argument 
from some quarters regarding my clearancing practices but experience
has shown my engines last a LONG time when built this way and properly 
broken in. JGD]

>My question is ... any opinions on hyperuetectic pistons?  What is their
>advantage over traditional alternatives?  I freely admit that misapplication of
>a product can cause bad results, but then I don't think my friend really knew
>exactly WHY the pistons were supposedly the hot setup for his motor.

Good pistons for Street/strip with out NOx.  But those buicks put out
500 ft-lbs or torque...  maybe he was just pushing it.  Its still a cast
piston.  Try the Keith Black Silvo-lites - also cast but 20% stronger
than normal.  Then go with forged.

Dirk


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 14:42:04 1993
Subject: RE: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5627
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Okay it appears that forged pistons are better than cast, but now I
have a question.  On a small block Chevy how many RPM's can you safely
turn with caste pistons as opposed the forged?  Also isn's the rods
really the limiter rather than the pistons?

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 14:46:41 1993
Subject: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5628
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Now there is alot of hype about the hyperuetectic (sp?) or high
-> silcon steel pistons.  What's the deal here?  Are these a "Good
-> Thing" or a "Bad Thing"? Failing that generalization ... are they
-> good for some applications and bad for others?

 They're stronger than conventional castings, not as strong as forgings.
The high silicon content adds strength and resistance to heat.
(silicon, BTW, is the primary incredient of ordinary dirt, and whenthe
chunks are big enough, you call it sand.  High-silicon aluminum alloys
can take the edge off carbide cutting tools astoundingly fast!)

 TRW publishes plenty of hate material about hyper-eutectic pistons, but
they're coming out with a line of their own.  For a sprint car, Pro
Stocker, or NASCAR racer, I'd still want forgings.  I don't have any
problem with the HE pistons on the street.  Heck, I seldom have trouble
with plain old cast pistons.


-> Anywa, I saw some of the pistons ... one was actually missing pieces
-> of the outer edge and the others all showed some degree of cracking
-> or breakage.

 That type of damage is typical of detonation.  As a S.W.A.G., I'd
figure the HE pistons might be a little more brittle than conventional
castings.  From what I remember proper heat treating would take care of
this under normal conditions, but "heat treat" and "piston" aren't
really complementary terms.

 High-alloy aluminum really isn't an alloy.  Technically, it's a
solution, particularly with silicon and zinc alloys.  Given enough time
the additives will precipitate out into pockets, which will weaken the
structure.

 Still, it sounds more like a detonation problem than an actual piston
problem.


-> machine shop set them up to"normal" clearances, somewhere around
-> 0.020".   (In fact, NO literature of any kind was in any of the boxes
-> the pistons came in) After my friend wrote a letter complaining about
-> the pistons, Federal Mogul, who turns out to be the manufacturer,
-> responded that they should have been set up at 0.010" (tight!) ...
-> and that they had no control over the aftermarket

 HOLY CRIMINY!  You should be looking at somewhere around .0025-.0045
for clearance.  +.020 is first overbore if you can get pistons that
size.  I guess it wouldn't blow too much oil if the rings were the right
size, but the piston was probably rattling around there like a marble in
a Cuisinart.  Big clearances went out of style thirty years ago, but I
guess some shops haven't been clued in yet.

 .010 sounds awfully wide, too.  Ford recommends .0025-.004 for cast
pistons, a couple thou more for forgings.

 My Federal-Mogul HE pistons didn't come with directions either, so I
set things up to standard Ford clearance.  My brother bought a set of
the Silv-O-Lites for his drag motor.  In all fairness, the Federals are
pretty cobby looking.  They look like they were cast in used kitty
litter.  The Silv-O-Lites by comparison are machined all over and
apparently used permament molds for the inside.  It's a good-looking
part.  I would have got them instead, only the Federals are specials
with Cleveland comes and Windsor pins.


-> -- Buick Grand National:  A *BOOST* of Buick Performance

 If you're thinking about your GN, I'd recommend forgings.  It's the
type of high temp, high stress, potential detonation application
forgings are designed for.  Besides, you only have to buy six; you'll
save money.  
                                                                                                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 14:56:20 1993
Subject: RE: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5629
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

John "Any Day Now, Trust Me" deArmond sez:

> I set my 
>own engines up tighter because I break the pistons and rings in by
>motoring the engine with an electric motor before final assembly and can
>catch any tight spots before damage is done.

  An excellent idea, one I'd like to know a little more about.  Do you
use cutting oil or lapping compound or motor oil on the bores during this
pre-break in?  Or just spin the engine dry?  I've only had experience
rebuilding street engines and know the typical shadetree practice of
honing and assembly.

[I have an old 1/2 hp gearmotor I bought surplus a long time ago.  I think
the output shaft turns 200 rpm or something like that.  It has about a 
2" pulley.  I just set the new short block on a stand, install the crank
pulley and vee belt 'em together.  I use moly disulphide powder in STP
for the bottom end assembly lube which stays in place forever until real
oil hits it.  Cylinder lube is just plain old motor oil.  I've tried
several fancy ways of applying oil to the cylinders including making a 
manifold that would drip onto each cylinder but the KISS principle works
best.  A couple of shots from an oil can to each cylinder every couple
of hours works fine.  I'll run it for a couple of hours initially or
until the sound changes (the scraping of rings against brand new 
hone marks goes away), then remove the pistons and look at them.  Any
tight spots on either the rings or the pistons will have started making
shiny spots on the piston or ring and usually on the cylinder too.
A little sandpaper can smooth a high spot.  after cleaning and reassembly,
I'll run the thing as long as I have the patience for, usually a day.
JGD]

  Ron "Don't Chuck That Washer Motor, Honey" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 15:06:16 1993
Subject: Re: 63-67 Corvettes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5630
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Jun 22,  8:58pm, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: 63-67 Corvettes
> I've been leaning towards the 67/427 concept. Are there any pros or cons with
> this idea? I guess another question would be, are there any BB Corvettes
> left out there to restore or are they all already gone. I can't seem to find
> a matching number vette under $35,000. Is this reality?
> 
 Tim since you live in Oakland, you might want to consider the 65 so that 
you do not have to worry about the smog equation, especially if you plan to
modify it.  If you find one with all the California emissions equipment, then
you are okay in any case.
Lastly, go for the Tri-Power. Last years Big Three Swap meet at the Murph here
in San Diego had a Vette in your category for 25K. Consider visiting the next
Pamona Swap Meet. They always have a selection.



-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive(brattlan@speedway.net| ( Ford 302 Tri-Power  
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   | 4 spd, 9 inch )
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 15:10:10 1993
Subject: RE: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5631
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Just for reference

>From Mopar's Direct Connection book

for a 440

Cast Pistons 	.0015"-.002"
Forged ones	.0079" -.009"

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 15:14:33 1993
Subject: RE: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5632
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Previous posters wrote:
>>spec sheet wasn't included with the pistons from the distributor and the
>>machine shop set them up to"normal" clearances, somewhere around 0.020".   (In
>
>Is that normal for _CAST_ pistons?
>
>>fact, NO literature of any kind was in any of the boxes the pistons came in) 
>>After my friend wrote a letter complaining about the pistons, Federal Mogul,
>>who turns out to be the manufacturer, responded that they should have been set
>>up at 0.010" (tight!) ... and that they had no control over the aftermarket
>
>That sounds about right for cast.

That sounds way too loose for almost any piston, except maybe those
8 inch diameter slugs I've seen used in water pump engines.

For a 350 Chevy, the factory specs for their cast pistons are about
.0015 to .002.  Even the high-perf factory engines only called for
about .0035.

Aftermarket forged pistons for the SB Chevy do need to be somewhat
looser.  I normally use .006 and possibly a bit more (.0065) on
the two rear cylinders since they are the hottest.  This is on a
4 inch bore diameter.  It does give some piston slap on a cold morning.
The thought of .010 clearance makes me shudder.

Bob Hale

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 16:53:09 1993
Subject: Hydrocarbon sensor?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5633
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Here's a good one for you.  A friend of mine took her car to a garage to
have a coolant loss diagnosed.  The mechanic claims to have a machine that
can "detect hydrocarbons in the coolant" and thus diagnosed a head gasket
leak.  Anyone ever heard of such a critter?  Unless this guy was trying
to use his emissions analyzer for this purpose, I have no idea what he was
doing.  My BS alarm is at full tilt.  Anyone else's?

John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance cars?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
The Great Tragedy of the 20th century is that Clinton's name isn't on the Wall.

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 18:37:44 1993
Subject: Re: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5634
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>Pistons
[...HOLY CRIMINY!  You should be looking at somewhere around .0025-.0045...]

In my original post I left a zero out of my specs for piston clearances ...
<*embarassed blush*>.  I meant 0.0020" NOT 0.020".  Sorry for the confusion!

[... In all fairness, the Federals are pretty cobby looking.  They look like
they were cast in used kitty litter....]

Har Har Har!  The ones we installed in the 455 were pretty nice looking ... 

[...If you're thinking about your GN, I'd recommend forgings.  It's the
type of high temp, high stress, potential detonation application
forgings are designed for.  Besides, you only have to buy six; you'll
save money.  ...

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams).....]

The advantages of have two less holes in the block ... <*grin*>  I just wonder
about the TDC "rocking".  My car is still street driven quite a bit (hell, it
gets 23+ mpg on the highway!) and I hate the thought of it knocking or using
oil.  It's my understanding that the stock pistons are hyper-eutectic or
something similar.  When I did my heads last fall @ 35,000 miles, the pistons
looked great ... no signs of anything unusual.  Also, no ridge ... everything
looked brand new!  Since I'm just aiming for consistent 11.50s (the car went
12.02 recently in 85 degree heat), I think I may just go back to OEM when it
comes time to rebuild, unless someone can convince me otherwise ...

Ken Mosher
Buick GN:  ...turbo whine and tire smoke ...
                                                                               
                                         
 





----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 18:42:21 1993
Subject: RE: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5635
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Okay it appears that forged pistons are better than cast, but now I
>have a question.  On a small block Chevy how many RPM's can you 
>safely
>turn with caste pistons as opposed the forged?  Also isn's the rods
>really the limiter rather than the pistons?

Depends really....

Late model cast pistons will wall apart at around 6500 depending on 
other engine components.  It seems that GM or whoever needed to 
lighten the pistons.  This was done by weakening the pin area among 
other things.  On the intake strock the rod and its pin can pull 
through the bottom of the piston.  This may lok to some as rod 
failure but the rod (in all likely hood) will still be intacked but 
bent.  Car Craft once compared mustang vs. camaro with stock short 
blocks and anything goes on top.  The Camaro detonated at about 6750 
rpm (lasted for a few passess though).

The stress on the piston and rods depend on alot of factors.  Having 
an intake that restricts air flow causes the piston to do more work 
(requires more force) to move the piston down on the intake stroke.  
I don't know if the difference between intakes ( I mean the entire 
intake system - carb / cam /valve/heads/manifold) is enough to change 
what rpm the bottom end will let go.  But, I do beleive that maximum 
stress is actually done on the intake stroke.  This is the time when 
those connecting rod bolts are stressed the most (traditionally the 
weak spot on bottom ends).

Forged pistons turn 10,000+ rpm in chevy drag motors - for how long I 
not sure.  I belieive some racers (running both steel and alum 
connecting rods) have engines that turn in the 10,000rpm range and go 
all season without touching the motor.YMMV

Dirk



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 23 18:47:46 1993
Subject: Hydrocarbon sensor? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5636
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Here's a good one for you.  A friend of mine took her car to a garage to
>have a coolant loss diagnosed.  The mechanic claims to have a machine that
>can "detect hydrocarbons in the coolant" and thus diagnosed a head gasket
>leak.  Anyone ever heard of such a critter?  Unless this guy was trying
>to use his emissions analyzer for this purpose, I have no idea what he was
>doing.  My BS alarm is at full tilt.  Anyone else's?
>
I have heard that there is some sort of way to detect exhaust gasses in coolant,
although I thought it might be some sort of chemical test.  I don't remember the
details or the source.  (I've got it in my mental "common knowledge" file, so I
must have heard it from various sources?)

... time passes ...

Okay, I just called my mechanic.  He says there's two ways of doing it.  One
way is with an IR analyzer, but the better way is with "block check".  Don't
know whether that's a brand name or generic name, but you put a chemical inside
a tool and put the tool in the radiator and run the engine.  The chemical soaks
up the exhaust gasses if present and turns color as an indicator.

David Wright - 65 Plymouth Belvedere II 4-door 273
	       74 Dodge Challenger Rallye 360
	       85 Toyota Camry Deluxe 5-speed
	       90 Toyota Corolla Deluxe 5-speed

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 24 07:15:12 1993
Subject: Re: Hydrocarbon sensor?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5637
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <#9+x94h@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>Here's a good one for you.  A friend of mine took her car to a garage to
>have a coolant loss diagnosed.  The mechanic claims to have a machine that
>can "detect hydrocarbons in the coolant" and thus diagnosed a head gasket
>leak.  Anyone ever heard of such a critter?  Unless this guy was trying
>to use his emissions analyzer for this purpose, I have no idea what he was
>doing.  My BS alarm is at full tilt.  Anyone else's?

	Hmm...coolant is ethylene glycol, a cousin to ethanol.  Both are
hydrocarbons.

	The BS meter just wrapped the needle 'round the peg!

[From the posts here and email I've gotten, it appears there is a gadget
designed to detect fuel residue in the coolant.  Someone's supposed to be
sending the name of this gadget and where to get.  Learn something every
day. JGD]

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 24 07:25:02 1993
Subject: Hydrocarbon sensor?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5638
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> can "detect hydrocarbons in the coolant" and thus diagnosed a head
-> gasket leak.  Anyone ever heard of such a critter?  Unless this guy
-> was trying to use his emissions analyzer for this purpose, I have no
-> idea what he was doing.  My BS alarm is at full tilt.  Anyone else's?

 I tend to agree with you.  There are plenty of legit places where the
coolant could pick up hydrocarbons - the radiator and heater hoses,
lubricant used to put them on (if any), various radiator additives which
have soluble lubricants for the water pump, and general crap left in the
water jackets from the beginning.

 I'd guess that enough of a compression leak to put measurable
hydrocarbons in the coolant would be blowing bubbles in the radiator.
                                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 24 07:34:06 1993
Subject: Re: Carter 4bbl...model 9410/9510 ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5639
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>> Prototype manifold?  What'cha doin?
>>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

>*>>> A couple of race engineers (Traco Oldsmobile, Allan Moffat, Repco F1 1966)
>     are developing a range of intake manifolds to finally rid the V8 of it's
>     longterm "gas guzzler" identity in an effort to stave off pending efforts
>     to legislate them out of existence due to their *inefficiant* fuel use.
>     The trick is to retune the intake runners regarding length of inlet tract
>     and configuration of cylinders paired together. The basic design hasn't
>     been changed since the fifties or before and the prototypes so far test
>     benched have indicated 30-35 mpg possible. We have monitored fuel burn
>     efficiency at the spark plug and have seen it vary from 20% rich at idle
>     to 20% lean at 3000 rpm, and other cylinders the exact opposite ! This new
>     design is being developed under the brief of mean fuel efficiency to rest
>     somewhere between 3% lean or 3% rich at all rpm...of course 0% would be         ideal but walk before you crawl I always say. This is not a *power* intake
>     manifold as such but 100% fuel efficiency must generate the maximum amount
>     of available power from every litre (ne:gallon B->...) of fuel burned.
>     Believe it or not we want to try and offer a way to save all those ol'
>     bent eights from the scrap heap...and stop the govt. having cause to mess
>     with all those rodders who would prefer to keep using an *old* style of
>     engine as against the newer fuel injected electroniclly managed Northstar
>     (albeit a great NEW design) type of modern V8 engine...such as BMW, Audi
>     Lincoln etc. are launching from now on. Why can't you keep your Y-block,
>     289, Flathead, Hemi or mouse...if it get's 30+ mpg and passes the EPA
>     test (lean or "mean" burn tuning is gonna help in this regard !) then
>     they have less REAL reason to legislate against us. Besides...if this sort      of economy is locked inside my engine (potentially) then I want it's
>     reality in my pocket...wouldn't you ??? So far we have prototyped intakes
>     for Chevy smallblock...Cleveland smallblock (Windsor to follow)...Holden
>     (an Oz derivative) 253/308...and the Buick/Oldsmobile/Rover alloy V8.
>     The Chevy version is at the foundry being cast in first generation form.
>     I guess that's what we're doin'. Thanks for the imfo on Eldelbrock's
>     production of the Carter style range...I'll try to write them for details.
>     You couldn't find a 400 cfm (9410) for the RX-7...when rejetted did the 
>     625 cfm work out OK ?
>                          Check ya later alligator,
>                          In a while crocodile.
>                                               Bigfoot.
>[ (this isn't criticism, just a different perspective.)  I wonder why you 
>are in effect, trying to re-invent the wheel?  While some economy can be
>gained from equalizing fuel/air distribution, several intractable emissions
>and economy will remain as long as the fuel introduction point is 
>significantly upstream of the intake valve.  A wetted intake necessitates
>acceleration enrichment which harms economy and is the major source of 
>coasting emissions.  The latter is particularly difficult to deal with.
>The industry has determined that electronic injection is the only way to 
>solve the problems.  I agree (no surprise :-)  At the same time I understand
>and appreciate your desire to retain the appearance and simplicity of a carb 
>atop a low-rise manifold.  Why not do an innovative combination of the
>two technologies?  Design a manifold so that port injection is done 
>from the UNDERSIDE where the injectors would be invisible.  Use the
>carb as a throttle body and flowmeter.  The venturi signal could be 
>routed to a monolithic DP sensor that could be hidden literally inside
>the choke bimetal housing.  This would be a mass flow system that 
>could self-tune to the extent one standard map per engine family would
>work.  This would be a little more expensive than a strictly carburator
>installation but it WOULD meet any emission standard in effect today
>including evaporative emissions.  JGD]

*>>> Oh yeah but I'm doing this in my driveway with my trusty toolbox and
     some new gaskets and linkages. No drills, pumps, flowmeters, ECU's or
     injectors just a *bolt on* modification so we can get a fuel efficient
     simple *low tech* carburettered V8...something this traditional *low tech*
     tuner can understand...B-> I KISS my car every day (Keep It Simple Stupid).     Not a critisism...just a different perspective. P'raps a more *common*
     perspective...but valid for me and maybe a few others. Keep on roddin'.

[I must have misunderstood.  I thought you were involved in the development
of this system.  Sorry.  JGD]

-- 
  ___________________________________________________________________  
|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  ||
||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
  -------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU!rxkgre (Geof Evans)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 24 14:43:23 1993
Subject: Re: Hydrocarbon sensor?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5640
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>        Hmm...coolant is ethylene glycol, a cousin to ethanol.  Both are
>hydrocarbons.

Just can't let this one pass.  Neither are hydrocarbons, they are both alcohols.

>From posts on rec.autos.tech the product is Blok-Chek (spelling is a
guess), from Snap-On.  My bet is that it detects not hydrocarbons from
unburned fuel but acids formed when CO2 and NOx are dissolved in water,
maybe even by just the pH change.

Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov   the sometimes pedantic chemist

[There is a gadget sold for checking combustion efficiency (damn, I can't
remember the name) of boilers and furnaces and such that does actually
measure CO and residual fuel in the flue gas.  Used to have to use one
during my VERY brief career in a coal fired power plant.  It was a wet
chemistry that required a sample to be pumped through an absorption 
column soaked with the indicator.  How far down the column the color
changed in response to a given volume of sample gas indicated the 
concentration.  Sounds like someone has packaged this same chemistry
up for automotive use.  Hmmm..  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 24 14:53:16 1993
Subject: when to retorque the head bolts?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5641
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

John just posted a message on my behalf, asking about machines to
detect hydrocarbons in coolant.  He forwarded the reply --
thanks.

My question was about part of a larger problem, which now is:
when is it permissable or desirable to retorque the head bolts?
Is it ever?

The car has hydrocarbons (400 ppm) in the coolant (hence my
question about the machine), but no oil in the coolant.  It loses
a little coolant (recently ~2 cups was added), with no obvious
stains on the engine, and no obvious white smoke in the exhaust.
Also, the engine pings.  The check engine light came on last
December and more coolant was added; recently the check engine
light came back on and adding coolant did not help.

Based entirely on the observation of the hydrocarbons in the
coolant, the mechanic has suggested pulling the head for
inspection.  I, unfortunately, am 2,100 miles away, so I can't do
any further tests on it myself.  He has said he won't inspect the
spark plugs or test the timing because that would be redundant.
(Maybe, but I would do it anyway.)

The car, BTW, is an '83 Omni, 2.2L, automatic, 96K.  The engine
has an aluminum head and an iron block.  It does not dump engine
codes. 

The car is not quite in the class of this mailing list :-) but I
would appreciate any help you could give.  Please e-mail for now;
I have sent a subscription request to John but it will take a
while.

Thanks.

-- Louise Penberthy


Louise Penberthy                     |  "You're shull of fit, Weezie, but
Dept of CSIS, Kennesaw State College |   I love you anyway."
PO Box 444, Marietta, GA  30061      |          -- Tony Vila, to me
louise@pravda.cc.gatech.edu          |          

----------
Posted by: emory!cc.gatech.edu!louise (Louise Penberthy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 24 15:02:24 1993
Subject: Hydrocarbon sensor? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5642
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Okay, I just called my mechanic.  He says there's two ways of doing it.  One
> way is with an IR analyzer, but the better way is with "block check".  Don't
> know whether that's a brand name or generic name, but you put a chemical inside
> a tool and put the tool in the radiator and run the engine.  The chemical soaks
> up the exhaust gasses if present and turns color as an indicator.

I saw a device in the auto parts store the other day.  Some kind of a
clear cylinder that you stuck in the radiator filler hole.  The
instructions said to start the car and look for bubbles in the
cylinder.  Supposedly, bubbles indicated a blown head gasket.

--
Joseph P. Cernada	AIT, Inc.
914/347-6860		50 Executive Blvd.
cernada@ait.com		Elmsford, New York 10523

----------
Posted by: emory!shadow.ait.com!cernada (Joseph P. Cernada)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 24 20:07:34 1993
Subject: RE: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5643
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article <+#-x-jl@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
|> 
|> >Okay it appears that forged pistons are better than cast, but now I
|> >have a question.  On a small block Chevy how many RPM's can you 
|> >safely
|> >turn with caste pistons as opposed the forged?  Also isn's the rods
|> >really the limiter rather than the pistons?
|> 
|> Depends really....
|> 
|> Late model cast pistons will wall apart at around 6500 depending on 
|> other engine components.  It seems that GM or whoever needed to 
|> lighten the pistons.  This was done by weakening the pin area among 
|> other things.  On the intake strock the rod and its pin can pull 
|> through the bottom of the piston.  This may lok to some as rod 
|> failure but the rod (in all likely hood) will still be intacked but 
|> bent.  Car Craft once compared mustang vs. camaro with stock short 
|> blocks and anything goes on top.  The Camaro detonated at about 6750 
|> rpm (lasted for a few passess though).
|> 
|> The stress on the piston and rods depend on alot of factors.  Having 
|> an intake that restricts air flow causes the piston to do more work 
|> (requires more force) to move the piston down on the intake stroke.  
|> I don't know if the difference between intakes ( I mean the entire 
|> intake system - carb / cam /valve/heads/manifold) is enough to change 
|> what rpm the bottom end will let go.  But, I do beleive that maximum 
|> stress is actually done on the intake stroke.  This is the time when 
|> those connecting rod bolts are stressed the most (traditionally the 
|> weak spot on bottom ends).
|> 
|> Forged pistons turn 10,000+ rpm in chevy drag motors - for how long I 
|> not sure.  I belieive some racers (running both steel and alum 
|> connecting rods) have engines that turn in the 10,000rpm range and go 
|> all season without touching the motor.YMMV
|> 
|> Dirk
|> 
|> 
|> 
|> ----------
|> Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)

Does not the stroke length play a big role in determining maximum Revs?

Long stroked engines tend to accelerate/decelerate the piston more at
lower revs. I was under the impression that the G forces generated on 
the connecting rod (and transmitted to the bearings) by the sudden 
acceleration/decelerations of the piston mass is what could ultimately
damage the rod &/or bearings from over reving. 

I recall reading that most production engines equipt with stock rods
would be pushing it if piston speed exceeded 3500 feet per minute.

Am I only seeing part of the picture?

$0.02
Ericy

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Jun 24 20:16:04 1993
Subject: Re: Hydrocarbon sensor?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5644
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>>        Hmm...coolant is ethylene glycol, a cousin to ethanol.  Both are
>>hydrocarbons.
>
>Just can't let this one pass.  Neither are hydrocarbons, they are both
>alcohols.

	Not to pick a nit, but alcohols contain hydrogen and carbon in
abundance.  Just what is the formal definition of a hydrocarbon anyway?

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 25 14:46:34 1993
Subject: when to retorque the head bolts?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5645
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> My question was about part of a larger problem, which now is:
-> when is it permissable or desirable to retorque the head bolts? Is it
-> ever?

 There's no reason not to retorque, though it's rare for a head bolt to
loosen up in service, at least with original factory engines.  If it has
been rebuilt and the builder used one of the moly based greases as a
thread lube, it's a lot more likely.  I've had head bolts back out when
lubed with that stuff, though some people swear by it.
                                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 25 14:59:40 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-24*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5646
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE  TIME(Eastern, USA)  NETWORK

This Week In NASCAR (T)               6/25     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Speed Racer                           6/26     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Jet Ski Racing                        6/26     4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
World Of Speed & Beauty (Charlotte)   6/26     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (small engine maint6/26     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
OFF-ROAD RACING, LAKE GENEVA (T)      6/26     12:00-1:00PM     ESPN
TOYOTA ATLANTIC, MILWAUKEE (T)        6/26     1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
Inside Winston Cup                    6/26     1:30-2:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (L)            6/26     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                     6/26     2:00-2:30PM      DISC
INDY LIGHTS, MILWAUKEE (T)            6/26     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
OLDS RACING SERIES, ATLANTA (T)       6/26     2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Hydroplane Racing, Miami (T)          6/26     3:00-4:00PM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (T)                6/26     4:00-5:30PM      TNN
SCCA, DETROIT (T)                     6/26     4:00-5:00PM      ESPN
F ATLANTIC, MOSPORT (T)               6/26     5:00PM           TSN
MotorWeek '93 (Bonneville SLE)        6/26     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
NHRA Today                            6/26     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
SpeedWeek                             6/26     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/26     8:00-11:00PM     ESPN
SpeedWeek                             6/27     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             6/27     3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
OLDS RACING SERIES, ATLANTA (T)       6/27     3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
INDY LIGHTS, MILWAUKEE (T)            6/27     6:00-6:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          6/27     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Trucks & Tractor Power                6/27     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Cycle World                           6/27     9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Winners (Danny Sullivan)              6/27     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today (Live from Topeka)         6/27     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Motor Sports Hour                     6/27     10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
Inside Winston Cup                    6/27     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    6/27    11:30AM-12:30PM   HTS*
ASA, BRAINERD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY(L)6/27     2:00-4:30PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (L)                 6/27     4:00-6:30PM      ESPN
IROC #3, TALLADEGA (T)                6/27     4:00-5:00PM      ABC
Winners (Danny Sullivan)              6/27     4:30-5:00PM      TNN
NHRA, HEARTLAND GRANDNATIONAL (L)     6/27     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    6/27     7:00-7:30PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (small engine maint6/27     8:00-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27     9:30PM           TSN
Road Test Magazine                    6/27     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
Trucks & Tractor Power                6/27    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer                           6/27    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA                          6/28     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (Charlotte)   6/28     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
NHRA, HEARTLAND GRANDNATIONAL (T)     6/28     1:00-2:00AM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (T)        6/28     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (T)                 6/28     1:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Motoworld                             6/28     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
IHRA, SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)   6/29     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/29     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
The Glory Days                        6/29     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
IMSA, EXXON SUPREME, LEXINGTON (T)    6/29     4:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/30     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
OFF-ROAD RACING, LAKE GENEVA (T)      6/30     4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
SCCA, DETROIT (T)                     6/30     2:30-3:30PM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           7/1      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Jet Ski Racing, Denver (T)            7/1      1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
NHRA SPRINGNATIONALS, COLUMBUS (T)    7/1      12:00-1:00PM     HTS*
Cycle World                           7/1      1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Hydroplane Racing, Miami (T)          7/1      2:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Motor Sports Hour                     7/1      2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Jet Ski Racing, Denver (T)            7/1      3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Prime Time Motorsports                7/1      3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
Checkered Flag (IndyCar, Portland)    7/1      5:00-5:30PM      ESPN
MIDGET WORLD CHALLENGE, PHOENIX (T)   7/1      7:30-8:30PM      HTS*
Cycle World                           7/1      8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (Bonneville SLE)        7/1      8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel             7/1      9:00-11:00PM     ENC
Motor Sports Hour                     7/1      9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                7/1      10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR (L)               7/1     11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
NHRA SPRINGNATIONALS, COLUMBUS (T)    7/2      12:00-1:00AM     HTS*
AMA SUPERCROSS, SAN JOSE (T)          7/2      12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Jet Ski Racing, Long Beach (T)        7/2      1:00-1:30AM      HTS*
Speed Racer                           7/2      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             7/2      1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
SAAB PRO SERIES, DETROIT (T)          7/2      4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel             7/2     10:30AM-12:30PM   ENC
This Week In NASCAR (T)               7/2      2:00-3:00PM      HTS*

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)              7/3      11:00AM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, PORTLAND (T)           7/3      8:00PM           ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (L)          7/3      9:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (L)                 7/4      7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
BUSCH GN, MILWAUKEE (?)               7/4      TBA              TBA
PIKES PEAK (?)                        7/4     (live coverage unlikely)
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (SD)                7/4     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IHRA NATIONALS, LIECESTER (T)         7/10     5:30PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/10     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SILVERSTONE, ENGLAND (L)   7/11     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
SCCA TRANS-AM, DES MOINES (L)         7/11     12:30PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, NEW HAMPSHIRE (L)        7/11     1:00PM           TNN
INDYCAR, CLEVELAND (L)                7/11     1:30-3:30PM    ABC,TSN
IMSA GTP, ROAD AMERICA (L)            7/11     4:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, HALIFAX (SD)              7/11     5:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, CLEV. OR F1, ENGLAND ?(SD)   7/11    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, TORONTO (?)               7/17     5:00-6:30PM      TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/17     8:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               7/18     12:00PM          TBS
INDYCAR, TORONTO (L) ?                7/18     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
INDYCAR, TORONTO (SD) ?               7/18     4:00-6:00PM      ABC
BUSCH GN, TALLADEGA (?)               7/24     TBA              TBA
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/24     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (L)    7/25     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, TALLADEGA (L)            7/25     12:15PM          CBS
PIKES PEAK (T)                        7/25     TBA              ESPN
IMSA, LAGUNA SECA (?)                 7/25     TBA              TBA
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (SD)   7/25    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
S.N.THUNDER (L)                       7/31     8:00PM           ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, SEARS POINT (T)        8/1      12:00PM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (L)                 8/1      2:00-5:00PM      ABC
ASA, HEARTLAND PARK RACEWAY,TOPEKA (L)8/1      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (SD)                8/1     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IMSA GTP, PORTLAND (T)                8/2      12:00AM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (T)                 8/2      2:30AM           TSN
BUSCH GN, INDIANAPOLIS (T)            8/7      8:00-10:00PM     ESPN
IHRA SUMMER NATIONALS, ATCO (T)       8/7      10:00PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, WATKINS GLEN (L)         8/8      1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LOUDON (L)                   8/8      3:30-5:30PM   ESPN,TSN
F ATLANTIC, NEW HAMPSHIRE (T)         8/9      7:30PM           TSN
BUSCH GN, MICHIGAN (L)                8/14     1:00PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        8/14     8:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, LOUDON (SD)                  8/14    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, BUDAPEST, HUNGARY (L)      8/15     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             8/15     12:30PM          ESPN
NHRA NATIONALS, SONOMA (T)            8/15     3:30PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, TROIS RIVIERES (L)        8/15     5:00PM           TSN
FORMULA 1, BUDAPEST, HUNGARY (SD)     8/15    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
BUSCH GN, NEW HAMPSHIRE (?)           8/22     TBA              TBA
NHRA NATIONALS, SEATTLE (T)           8/22     1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, ROAD AMERICA (L)             8/22     2:00-4:30PM   ESPN,TSN
INDYCAR, ROAD AMERICA (SD)            8/22    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, LIME ROCK (T)          8/28     1:00PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, BRISTOL (T)                 8/28     4:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, BRISTOL (L)              8/28     7:30PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SPA, BELGIUM (L)           8/29     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
NHRA NATIONALS, BRAINERD (T)          8/29     1:00PM           ESPN
ASA, I-70 SPEEDWAY, ODESSA, MO (L)    8/29     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, VANCOUVER (L)                8/29     4:00-6:00PM    ESPN,CBC
FORMULA 1, SPA, BELGIUM (SD)          8/29    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, VANCOUVER (T)             8/30     5:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, VANCOUVER (T)                8/30     9:00-11:00PM     ESPN
IHRA NATIONALS, SCRIBNER (T)          8/31     12:30AM          ESPN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out SRC. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for 
info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 25 15:15:56 1993
Subject: RE: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5647
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Does not the stroke length play a big role in determining maximum Revs?
>
I would think so.  But as every engine could have a different stroke they 
probably have different piston designs - as far as thickness in areas go.  
I just tried to comment on and article I remeber reading in HR or CC.  
Again they observed piston failure in one of their test cars. It was an 
1982 Z-28 running 12.ish quarter miles - Until the piston broke.  The chevy 
305 has the same stroke as a 350 so the 350 with heavier pistons should do 
worse.

>Long stroked engines tend to accelerate/decelerate the piston more at
>lower revs. I was under the impression that the G forces generated on 
>the connecting rod (and transmitted to the bearings) by the sudden 
>acceleration/decelerations of the piston mass is what could ultimately
>damage the rod &/or bearings from over reving. 
>
I've allways heard the weak spot is in the rod bolt.  If the bolt gets 
stretched too far it will lose its clamping force which in turn could lead 
to all kinds of damage.  On every engine rebuild I was advised to change 
the rod bolts (cheap insurance) perferably to SPS ones.

>I recall reading that most production engines equipt with stock rods
>would be pushing it if piston speed exceeded 3500 feet per minute.
>
We'll lets see... the 350/305 has a 3.45" stroke

Assuming connecting rod length is long enough that the only angle thats 
import is the crank angle

ft/sec = stroke * 2 * Pi * rpm/60

2348   = 3.45 * 2 * Pi * 6500 / 60

I think perhaps 2000 ft/sec.  Perhaps acceleration is more important?

>Am I only seeing part of the picture?

Ther are lots of interrelated problems.  How bout rod length to stroke 
ratio?

Because of all the variations and my lack of money I tend to go by others 
experiences.  If I was running a race team with unlimited engine 
developement budget (can you say Honda F-1) I might fool around with 
unproven parts.  I think we all agree that cast pistons work O.K. In low to 
moderate HP engines tthat don't see alot of revs.

BTW - Under detonation cast pistons seem to fail at their edges (broken 
lands / rings etc) while forged break at the center (pokes a hole right 
down the middle).  detonation also destroyes the bearing crush on the rods 
and mains and can cause the main caps to walk.  Heavy detonation is like 
taking a hammer and pounding on the pistons.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 25 18:41:38 1993
Subject: Re:  when to retorque the head bolts?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5648
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 Don't a lot of the econo engines use stretch type head bolts, which are
supposedly a one-time deal? I think you need to know if this is the case
with yours. If so, I'd buy a new set of good ones since they ought to be
cheap enough.

 If the gasket has been running for a while with a leak simple retorqueing
may not completely seal it. I know plain steel gaskets can get chowed once
the leak gets opened up. Composition ones will be more resistant, and may
have enough crush left that they'll reseal under restored pressure. Not
knowing, I'd be inclined to replace that too.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 25 18:45:19 1993
Subject: Re: Hydrocarbon sensor?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5649
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>        Not to pick a nit, but alcohols contain hydrogen and carbon in
>abundance.  Just what is the formal definition of a hydrocarbon anyway?
>
>Later,
>-- 
>Chris BeHanna   DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
>behanna@syl.nj.nec.com            1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
>Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC    1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
>agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

Something that only contains carbon and hydrogen.  Alcohols contain oxygen,
in the form of -OH.  H H   is ethane, a hydrocarbon.  Substitute -OH for
one -H
                H-C-C-H
                  H H
and you get ethanol, an alcohol.  Substitute another -OH for one of the
-H's on the other carbon and you get ethylene glycol, a di-alcohol.  It
turns out that varying the number of carbons and hydrogens in a hydrocarbon
makes a small difference in chemical and physical properties (compare
ethane with propane), while adding a new functional group (the -OH) makes a
big difference.  Look at the boiling points of ethane and ethanol.  Thus
molecules are primarily classed by the functional groups they contain. 
Even hydrocarbons are further subdivided by the bond order between carbons
(single, double, triple, or aromatic - ethane, ethylene (more properly
ethene), acetylene (or ethyne), and benzene) ...

Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 25 22:29:20 1993
Subject: RE: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5650
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article <+6=xg2j@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
|> 
|> >Does not the stroke length play a big role in determining maximum Revs?
|> >
|> I would think so.  But as every engine could have a different stroke they 
|> probably have different piston designs - as far as thickness in areas go.  
|> I just tried to comment on and article I remeber reading in HR or CC.  
|> Again they observed piston failure in one of their test cars. It was an 
|> 1982 Z-28 running 12.ish quarter miles - Until the piston broke.  The chevy 
|> 305 has the same stroke as a 350 so the 350 with heavier pistons should do 
|> worse.
|> 
|> >Long stroked engines tend to accelerate/decelerate the piston more at
|> >lower revs. I was under the impression that the G forces generated on 
|> >the connecting rod (and transmitted to the bearings) by the sudden 
|> >acceleration/decelerations of the piston mass is what could ultimately
|> >damage the rod &/or bearings from over reving. 
|> >
|> I've allways heard the weak spot is in the rod bolt.  If the bolt gets 
|> stretched too far it will lose its clamping force which in turn could lead 
|> to all kinds of damage.  On every engine rebuild I was advised to change 
|> the rod bolts (cheap insurance) perferably to SPS ones.
|> 
|> >I recall reading that most production engines equipt with stock rods
|> >would be pushing it if piston speed exceeded 3500 feet per minute.
|> >
|> We'll lets see... the 350/305 has a 3.45" stroke
|> 
|> Assuming connecting rod length is long enough that the only angle thats 
|> import is the crank angle
|> 
|> ft/sec = stroke * 2 * Pi * rpm/60
|> 
|> 2348   = 3.45 * 2 * Pi * 6500 / 60
|> 
|> I think perhaps 2000 ft/sec.  Perhaps acceleration is more important?
|> 

Your equation is correct if we were trying to calculate the linear feet per
revolution of the rod at the crank, But I am refering to the distance the
piston travels vertically in the bore.  The distance is linear so Pi is not
required.

  stroke given in inches  
  total distance = 2r or 2 * stroke

 ft/sec = (stroke * 2 * RPM) / 12inches
 ft/sec = (stroke * RPM) / 6

so...

  the  350/305 has a 3.45" stroke
       ft/min = (3.45 * 6500) / 6
       ft.min = 3737.5
                          
With stock parts I think you'd be on the ragged edge.

Regards,

Ericy

[4000 ft/min has traditionally been the touchstone for high performance
pistons.  Modern pistons can exceed it with care.  But that is only the
average speed.  The problem is the equations above don't indicate the
acceleration/deceleration profile and that is the most critical
parameter.  Rod length must enter into the equation.  Trying to figure out
what the acceleration limit should be could get very complicated very
quickly.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Jun 25 22:34:34 1993
Subject: Re: Hydrocarbon sensor?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5651
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The mechanic was probably talking about a chemical reactant rather
than an electronic detector. The chemical process uses a cylinder
that seals onto the radiator fill hole. The cylinder is filled with
a bluish chemical that reacts with the hydrocarbons that bubble out
of the radiator in the event of a head gasket failure or from a
cracked head.
This process will detect some mighty small leaks, believe you me!

***************************************************************
Millam E. Tackitt                        met@naucse.cse.nau.edu

1967 Cougar XR-7 271/289 4spd/CR 4spd
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 3-dueces and an Auto 

If you think gun "control" laws will work, try asking a 
criminal if they give a damn about laws in the first place!
***************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 26 09:38:09 1993
Subject: Re: Hydrocarbon sensor?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5652
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Regarding the block check - it's just a litmus solution that is
usually blue.  If it turns yellow it is detecting blow by acids.
It attaches to the radiator in place of the cap.

Paul


----------
Posted by: emory!everest.tandem.com!paul (Paul Duffy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Jun 26 09:43:57 1993
Subject: Re: Block check
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5653
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Whoops I didn't mean blow by, I meant combustion gas acids
in the coolant indicating bad head gasket.

Paul

----------
Posted by: emory!everest.tandem.com!paul (Paul Duffy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Jun 27 01:41:32 1993
Subject: Re: Carter 4bbl...model 9410/9510 ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5654
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>>     The Chevy version is at the foundry being cast in first generation form.
>>     I guess that's what we're doin'. Thanks for the imfo on Eldelbrock's
>>     production of the Carter style range...I'll try to write them for details.
>>     You couldn't find a 400 cfm (9410) for the RX-7...when rejetted did the 
>>     625 cfm work out OK ?
>>                          Check ya later alligator,
>>                          In a while crocodile.
>>                                               Bigfoot.

>*>>> Oh yeah but I'm doing this in my driveway with my trusty toolbox and
>     some new gaskets and linkages. No drills, pumps, flowmeters, ECU's or
>     injectors just a *bolt on* modification so we can get a fuel efficient
>     simple *low tech* carburettered V8...something this traditional *low tech*
>     tuner can understand...B-> I KISS my car every day (Keep It Simple Stupid).     Not a critisism...just a different perspective. P'raps a more *common*
>     perspective...but valid for me and maybe a few others. Keep on roddin'.

>[I must have misunderstood.  I thought you were involved in the development
>of this system.  Sorry.  JGD]

*>>> Oh poisonous barbs, be wary my ears ! Just because my involvment is 
     in the road testing and susequent tuning (which includes the actual
     physical construction/configuration of the manifold prototype) you
     think that isn't development work ??? Anybody out there who want's to
     help us develop this manifold through locating a Carter 9410 or the
     bits to tune down an Edelbrock 625 (how successful was that ???) then
     I'd be glad to hear from you. I am not interested in fuel injection but
     some of the team is and research that also. I am doing the stuff that
     relates to those of us running Y-blocks and mouses and Red Ram Hemi's
     and Windsors and Stude's and any ol' iron in the traditional fashion.

*>>> She's got a competition clutch with 4 on the floor,
     Just a dual quad, positraction pillarless 4 door,
     Tuned length headers and vertex fired,
     Twin glass packs and wide white tyred,
     Blue dot lenses and full moons'n' frenched,
     My baby loves me an' I love to wrench.

________________________________________________________________________
>|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  ||
>||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------

>----------
>Posted by: emory!minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU!rxkgre (Geof Evans)
-- 
  ___________________________________________________________________  
|| Geof Evans                 | DOMAIN: rxkgre@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au  ||
||   If they *really* wanna know...tell 'em that God was drunk.      ||
  -------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au!rxkgre (Geof Evans)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 28 13:44:55 1993
Subject: Re: coolant loss.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5655
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On the subject, and not recalling whether the idea has been mentioned.
One, commonly overlooked cause of coolant loss, is a defective radiator
cap!  I learned this lesson, painfully decades ago.  I have occasionally
forgotten it, at some cost.  Now, I remember.  A cap that no longer
maintains design pressures will slowly allow coolant to percolate out of
the system.  Because this occurs while the vehicle is hot and in motion,
there is rarely any trace of the coolant stream out through the cap.
However, the coolant loss is frustratingly steady and persistant.

----------
Posted by: Gordon Laird 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 28 13:56:20 1993
Subject: Re: Simple differential question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5656
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> When you refer to a ring gear as, say, 8.50", to what dimension does that
>refer? Outer diameter, bolt circle, tooth centerline, inner diameter... ?
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)

This is the outer diameter of the tooth side of the ring gear.
JC.  jca@fibercom.com

----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James C. Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 28 14:45:42 1993
Subject: Re: when to retorque the head bolts?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5657
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Dave Williams writes:
> There's no reason not to retorque, though it's rare for a head bolt to
>loosen up in service, at least with original factory engines.  If it has
>been rebuilt and the builder used one of the moly based greases as a
>thread lube, it's a lot more likely.  I've had head bolts back out when
>lubed with that stuff, though some people swear by it.

My experience has been that you usually don't have to retorque head
bolts on a stock to moderate engine, especially if you use the thin
stainless sheet metal head gaskets.

If you are making a lot of power, or have used a composition type of
head gasket, then it's a really good idea to retorque the bolts after
the engine has been warmed up once and cooled down.  It's amazing how
much more twist you have to put on the bolts to get them back up to
the specified torque.

Of course, this assumes conventional bolts and not the stretch bolts
where you torque to some value and then tighten them a fraction of a
turn more.

Bob Hale

----------
Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Jun 28 14:51:06 1993
Subject: Vendor List
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5658
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 The Automotive Vendor List is a featured file in Compuserve's
newsletter this month.  Jeez, I'm famous.

 I also realized the list contains directions to get the new version off
dixie's server, but no pointer to my own BBS, the only hope of the net
impaired.

[Compu$erve victims, er, I mean users can retrieve the file from here
too.  I think the command is ">INTERNET internet@address"  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 07:13:18 1993
Subject: Re: when to retorque the head bolts?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5659
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> My experience has been that you usually don't have to retorque head
-> bolts on a stock to moderate engine, especially if you use the thin
-> stainless sheet metal head gaskets.

 True.  I never have any trouble with the steel gaskets, but those are
usually found on small Chevys.  I don't think I've ever seen a Ford with
steel shim gaskets.

 Oddly, the absolute *worst* gaskets (I won't buy them if there's
*anything* else available) are the Fel-Pro Permatorque Blues.  First,
they leak water despite their fancy blue sealer, at least on the small
block Fords, where they gave me absolute hell.  Second, they need to be
retorqued at *least* once after the engine has been thoroughly warmed
up.  I just rebuilt the engine in my pickup, and wound up retorquing it
three times - it had sagged 5-10 ft-pounds each time.

 I prefer plain old cardboard DG or McCord gaskets with sealer - plain
old aluminum spray paint works fine.  Yeah, they don't come off as clean
as the Fel-Pros, but they don't leak.
                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 11:41:14 1993
Subject: Re: when to retorque the head bolts?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5660
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Oddly, the absolute *worst* gaskets (I won't buy them if there's
>*anything* else available) are the Fel-Pro Permatorque Blues.  First,
>they leak water despite their fancy blue sealer, at least on the small
>block Fords, where they gave me absolute hell.  Second, they need to be
>retorqued at *least* once after the engine has been thoroughly warmed
>up.  I just rebuilt the engine in my pickup, and wound up retorquing it
>three times - it had sagged 5-10 ft-pounds each time.
>
> I prefer plain old cardboard DG or McCord gaskets with sealer - plain
>old aluminum spray paint works fine.  Yeah, they don't come off as clean
>as the Fel-Pros, but they don't leak.
>                                                             
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

Que? I used Fel-Pro Blues on my small chevy. Didn't retorque and had
no problems. Used 1 1/2 quart of oil since rebuild. That's 5000 miles
ago, and no water at all.

/Markus


----------
Posted by: emory!sta.ericsson.se!etxmst (Markus Strobl 98121)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 11:46:57 1993
Subject: Re: when to retorque the head bolts? 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5661
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

->From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 06:12:36 1993
->-> My experience has been that you usually don't have to retorque head
->-> bolts on a stock to moderate engine, especially if you use the thin
->-> stainless sheet metal head gaskets.
->
-> Oddly, the absolute *worst* gaskets (I won't buy them if there's
->*anything* else available) are the Fel-Pro Permatorque Blues.  First,
->they leak water despite their fancy blue sealer, at least on the small
->block Fords, where they gave me absolute hell.  Second, they need to be
->retorqued at *least* once after the engine has been thoroughly warmed
->up.  I just rebuilt the engine in my pickup, and wound up retorquing it
->three times - it had sagged 5-10 ft-pounds each time.
->
I haven't rebuilt any Ford motors, but I've used the Fel-pro permatorque
gaskets on every Chevy smallblock I've every rebuilt (approx. 40).  They
seem to be rather sensitive to any contamination of metal surfaces (I 
have had a few coolant leaks from the front of the intake).  I've never
found one where I've had to retorque.  I just finished a head gasket job
on a 2.0 in an 87 Cavalier (gadzooks!, a pushrod 4 cylinder in 1987) that
I found to have the Fel-pro gaskets.  Problem was one of the dowel pins 
was missing from the block.  Some people shouldn't be allowed to pick up
a wrench.

-tom kroeten
 Minnesota Supercomputer Center

----------
Posted by: emory!msc.edu!tom (Tom Kroeten)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 13:12:24 1993
Subject: 1966 Mustang Restoration Information Please?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5662
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi - I'm posting this for a friend that has recently picked up a 1966 'stang.
	I also posted for him yesterday, and I/we appreciate all the tips
	from the people who responded - thanks!

	Please respond to his email directly:  mvgmj@mvgpk.att.com

Forwarded message:

Hello - 
I recently purchased a 66 Mustang convertible. Just about
everything from the firewall back needs to be replaced. The
structural members are sagging and the door tops pinch the
quarterpanel. I have access to the necessary equipment (torch,
mig welder, tools) and am considering tackling the job. It
costs a small fortune to have the work done.

I assume one starts with the front torque box and works back
(torque box-inner rocker-outer rocker-rear frame rail). I
understand there is a jig that mounts from the dash to the
door jam and rear seat area that maintains the correct dimensions.
Can the jig be purchased? Is there a way around the need to purchase
one time tools? Am I crazy for even thinking about starting this 
project?

If any weekend mechanic has tried this in the past, I sure would
appreciate any advice.

					- George
					mvgmj@mvgpk.att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnewsf.cb.att.com!mvcjp (charles.j.pouliot)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 15:55:51 1993
Subject: Tach for MSD?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5663
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well, I got the Corvair back on the road this weekend (been wearing stupid grin 
since), and I now remeber a little problem I was having before.  The car has an 
MSD-5 with a Mallory coil.  The distributor is a stock rebuilt one.  The problem
is, I have a Sun Super Tach II in it, and I've never been able to get the thing 
to read correctly.  It tends to bounce around, though it seems to be at 
approximately the right RPM.  I have put on the MSD tach adapter kit, so that 
isn't it.  So I have two options:

1)  Figure out a way to make the Super Tach and the MSD get along

2)  Replace the Super Tach with one that works ok with the box

Obviously, a cheap fix of the existing setup would be nice, but I'll live with 
the new tach option.  A 2 5/8" or so face would be nice, since I'd like it to 
fit in the stock dash.  What I think is happening is the tach is getting funky 
signals when the MSD goes from multi to single sparks, so if I can isolate the 
signal from the points (which is what the kit is supposed to do), it should work
fine.  Any thoughts?

------
Bryan Blackwell bryan@mitre.org (703) 883 7329

'65 Corvair, '66 E-type, '69 Road Runner
"Yeah, it's nice, but it needs a little more power"
------

[Does the -5 have a tach output or is that something they trimmed of this low
end box?  If it has a tach output, the signal will only be about 15 volts.
The supertach is set up to read the rather large (400 volts or more) inductive
kick on the primary side of the coil.  When I put -6 boxes on Datsun Z-cars,
I have to open the tach and bypass a scaling resistor in order to get it to
read the lower voltage.  You might call the mfr and ask if there is any 
adjustment to make the tach work with this low signal.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: "Bryan Blackwell"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 17:13:35 1993
Subject: Back on line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5664
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Well, I am about settled in here in SoCal.  Anybody nearby?

Having read much in "Warm Rod" about some of the local places, I went to
check a few out the other day.  I went down to Van Nuyes and checked out
Auto-Rite and Cars and Concepts.   

They were just like any other small auto places, just famous.  Gene at 
Auto-Rite really knows a those T700R4s, and has in production a Ford
kit for them.  Mating plates, and real, custom made Ford/GM torque converters.
Neat stuff. 

He was working on a Silver State Challenge car, installing the extra large
Wilwood disk kit.  It was a late modle Mustang, and there was a way-radical
351 on the floor.  Should be an interesting car.

Two stalls over, two weeks behind sched was that truck that occupies a few
pages in this months HRM, the Edelbrock rebuild.  In reality, it is a short
bed, not the long bed in the drawings.  Paint is trick, and even nicer than
was shown.  It was interesting to see the stuff live....  

It is just amazing to see what is right here.  I went to Two Brothers Racing,
and have been dealing with SuperTrapp.  Half of the names I can think of for
high power & performance are an hour's traffic filled drive away.  I have 
spoken with Global West, and have begun my quest for a car like the 
Jeff Smith Triathalon car....  I hope the $ and time hold out.
Frank Evan Perdicaro 			Dianippon Screen Enginerring of America
 Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.	   3700 Segerstrom Ave
  inhouse: frank@rebel, x210		      Santa Ana CA
   outhouse: frank@dsea.com, 714-546-9491x210	 92704

----------
Posted by: emory!rebel.dsea.com!frank (Frank Evan Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 17:17:45 1993
Subject: street comp. ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5665
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

   Whats the story on street compression ratios?  I'm rebuilding a '69
Chevy 350, and the original compression ratio is advertised as 10.25/1,
but I've had late-model heads (larger vol. combustion chambers) on it 
for years to bring it down to ~9/1.  Is 10.25/1 too high for 92 octane 
pump gas?  Can I go higher if I use computer controlled spark advance and 
fuel injection?  
   I read about modern motorcyle engines with comp. ratios _above_ 11/1 
(sport bikes), and they just use mutiple carbs not fuel injection.  Can 
they do this because the air/fuel charge is cooler (via fresh air scoops)?  
   There must be more to managing detonation than just comp. ratio.  I know 
that motorcycle engines use 4 (sometimes 5) valves per cylinder. Does the 
combustion chamber shape contribute that much as far as resistance to 
detonation?  
   How can I get my 350 to survive with, say 10.5/1 comp. ratio without 
resorting to water injection and/or some kind of knock sensor to retard the
timing?  Can carefull cam selection help, or do I need to get the heads 
reworked (combustion chamber reshaped)?  I'd like to get the comp. ratio as
high as is practicle.  

   Any comments are welcome.

Thanks,
Pat

Pat Kindell                        kindell@eugene.convex.com
Convex Computer Corp.              CX500T,KDX200,XL250R
3000 Waterview Parkway             DoD # 117  AMA # 613655
Richardson, TX  75083-3851         WFO # $*&%^_*&%!!

----------
Posted by: emory!convex.com!kindell (Pat Kindell)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 21:53:33 1993
Subject: Re: when to retorque the head bolts?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5666
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Que? I used Fel-Pro Blues on my small chevy. Didn't retorque and had
-> no problems. Used 1 1/2 quart of oil since rebuild. That's 5000 miles
-> ago, and no water at all.

 YMMV, as they say on BIX.  Obviously, they must work for *someone*.
                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 21:58:01 1993
Subject: Re: when to retorque the head bolts?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5667
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I found to have the Fel-pro gaskets.  Problem was one of the dowel
-> pins was missing from the block.  Some people shouldn't be allowed to
-> pick up a wrench

 Ah, the old dowel pin schtick.  I've been there.  Brought a 351C block
back from the machine shop, washed it, and started to assemble.  No
dowels.  (well, actually Ford uses hollow doohickies where the head
bolts go through, but they do the same thing.)  Curses.  As I stormed
out to the machine shop, I *just happened* to notice the oil gallery
plugs were gone too.  Then comes Scene 2, where I'm telling the machine
shop I WANT MY GODDAMNED DOWELS AND PLUGS RIGHT NOW, NOT MONDAY
MORNING!, and get some bozo trying to tell me "you're not supposed to
re-use that sort of part anyway."  I wound up pointing at a nearby 302
and saying, "okay, since you don't re-use those parts, you won't mind
letting me have the ones out of *that* block, right?"  gobble-gobble-
gobble.

 And people wonder why I act like such a hardass when I get machine work
done any more.  Jeez.
                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 22:02:57 1993
Subject: Re:  street comp. ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5668
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 I think one reason motorcycles can get by with higher compression is that
they are aluminum; there is better heat transfer to the coolant (on the
newer liquid-cooled bikes anyway). Aluminum heads on cars are supposed to
let you run slightly higher compression ratios.

 Chamber design definitely affects maximum compression ratio; however
it seems to be a sort of black art, one which maybe won't be easy to
get right first time with the die grinder. 

 The higher-compression heads in many cases were also better-flowing; I
know this was the case for Buicks. Lower CR went hand in hand with smog
laws and caring about MPG, so manifolds and heads ended up being designed
for more velocity, swirl, etc. and less outright flow.

 A lower temperature thermostat would help you a little. Even better 
would be a reverse-flow cooling system, where the heads get the water
from the radiator first. There's not much you can do with the stock
water pump but an electric could be modified. Dunno if simple reversing
of rotation would suffice.

 Probably the best addition would be an ignition with knock sensing retard.
That'd keep you out of trouble pretty much.

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Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Jun 29 22:07:30 1993
Subject: Modulators
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5669
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone know where I can get a modulator for a T400 which has
a larger than stock area?  I want the stock spring force but
I want it to be more sensitive to engine vacuum.

Alternatively, I could build or modify something if there is a
source of parts.

Thanks for your help.

Bob Hale                                   hale@brooktree.com

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Posted by: emory!brooktree.com!hale (bob hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 30 07:10:35 1993
Subject: Back on line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5670
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> They were just like any other small auto places, just famous.  Gene
-> at Auto-Rite really knows a those T700R4s, and has in production a
-> Ford kit for them.

 Yeah, and he doesn't return mail, either.  I guess if he's not
interested enough in selling the things to follow up a written enquiry,
screw him.  I'll build my own.

 Anyone else interested in a GM-trans-on-Ford adapter?
                                                               

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 30 15:17:26 1993
Subject: Re: street comp. ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5671
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Pat asked
> 
>    Whats the story on street compression ratios?  I'm rebuilding a '69
> Chevy 350, and the original compression ratio is advertised as 10.25/1,
> but I've had late-model heads (larger vol. combustion chambers) on it 
> for years to bring it down to ~9/1.  Is 10.25/1 too high for 92 octane 
> pump gas?  Can I go higher if I use computer controlled spark advance and 
> fuel injection? 

The one true limiter of compression ratio is what is available in gasoline
basic octane rating.  Normally with a 10.25 ratio 92 octane would squeek
you through.  In the event that there would be some pinging with 92 octane
there are several alternatives.  The simpilest if the engine is fairly
stock is to simply retard the spark a couple degrees, however if there is
a performance cam involved this is not always a practical alternative.
With other performance modificiations involved I believe your only alternative
is to add one of the many available octane boasters, or go to a high percentage
of alcohol mixture.  Not the achohol mixture will require loads of work on 
you fuel system.
>    I read about modern motorcyle engines with comp. ratios _above_ 11/1 
> (sport bikes), and they just use mutiple carbs not fuel injection.

Well there were also chevy small blocks produced directly from chevy that
sprouted 12.0 compression ratios.  I had also helped build some drag engines
again chevy small blocks that went up to 13.5 and these were all carborated.
If you can get the octane up high enough I believe a practicle ceiling today 
is probably somewhere in the 11's if you want any streetability.

>    How can I get my 350 to survive with, say 10.5/1 comp. ratio without 
> resorting to water injection and/or some kind of knock sensor to retard the
> timing?  Can carefull cam selection help, or do I need to get the heads 
> reworked (combustion chamber reshaped)?

1. good octane booster
2. retardation of spark
3. don't pick a cam that requires 20 degrees advance on idle. Duntoff stock
	cams are okay but stay away from there service package cams unless
	you are not planning on using this machine on the street.
> 

dennis
 
> 
> 
> 

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Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 30 15:19:23 1993
Subject: Lock-up Torque Converters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5672
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi All,

This isn't much of a hotrod question, but the wealth of automotive talent on
this network should be able to answer my question easily.

I've got an '83 Olds equipped with a TH350 (3 speed w/o OD) that is doing funny
things at highway speeds.  It is equipped with what I've been told is a 
"lock-up" torque converter that supposedly acts similar to an OD at highway
speeds.  The problem is, the damn thing shifts in and out continually, depending
on the accelerator pedal position.  That's not too bad, except that it shifts
exactly opposite of what you'd expect, i.e., when the pedal is pressed, the
damn thing up-shifts into what feels like a higher gear (RPMs drop off); when
you let up on the pedal, the friggin' thing down-shifts into a lower gear (RPMs
increase).

What the heck is going on?  Is there a throttle position sensor screwed up or
is it a solenoid on the transmission that is snafu'd?  Any comments/ideas would
be appreciated on possible causes as well as a description of how the thing is
supposed to work in the first place...

Thanks,
Stan Shore

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Posted by: emory!ocetca.att.com!sds
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 30 15:25:10 1993
Subject: Re: Back on line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5673
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Dave Williams wrote
> 
> -> They were just like any other small auto places, just famous.  Gene
> -> at Auto-Rite really knows a those T700R4s, and has in production a
> -> Ford kit for them.
> 
>  Yeah, and he doesn't return mail, either.  I guess if he's not
> interested enough in selling the things to follow up a written enquiry,
> screw him.  I'll build my own.
> 
>  Anyone else interested in a GM-trans-on-Ford adapter?

I doubt that you will get many takers on this.  Few people that appreciate
a GM transmission would want Ford Power.  Now if were talking about Ford
rear axles, and torqueflite transmissions with Chevy engines and we turned
the clock back a couple decades we probably would have them lined up.
 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 30 15:29:57 1993
Subject: RE: street comp. ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5674
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  
>   How can I get my 350 to survive with, say 10.5/1 comp. ratio without 
>resorting to water injection and/or some kind of knock sensor to retard the
>timing?  Can carefull cam selection help, or do I need to get the heads 
>reworked (combustion chamber reshaped)?  I'd like to get the comp. ratio as
>high as is practicle.  
>
>   Any comments are welcome.
>
>Thanks,
>Pat

Detonation is a result of combustion chamber pressures not necessarily 
compression ratio.  For example my 10:1 '70 GTO needed 92 octane gas with Comp 
Cams 252 duration cam.  Switching to the Ram Air IV cam (advertised duration 
close to 300) killed my low end torque but I could run 89 octain unleaded.  I 
suspect at extreme rpm's - not the territory of a Pontiac - I may have still 
had problems - but normally the carb is running rich (on the power valve).

So this means you can:

1) retard timing - fiddle with advance curves and adjustable vacumm advance
	- you lose some power / response
2) run on the rich side - rich mixtures burn cooler - but require more advance
	- you lose some power / maybe gain some response
3) run cooler - lower thermostat - fresh air induction 
	**** run a reverse flow cooling system - look at the new Chevy LT1
	10:1 and no problem.  I heard this was an old NASCAR trick but I've
	never seen it done as a retrofit on an earlier block.
4) retard the cam - this lowers combustion pressures esp. at low rpms.
5) run a longer duration cam - crower used to make a cam that would allow 13:1
	on pump gas.  Mixed results on that one.  Maybe you can find a better
	compromise on cams.
6) polish everything in the combustion chamber - sharp edges can be localized 
	hot spots.  Removing sharp edges - without reducing the "squish" area
	might help some. I don't know how much this will help.  The only 
	changes on my GTO were the cam and polished heads - after the rebuild.
	The cam came latter - the car was almost undrivable with the 252 cam 
	after the rebuild.
7) closed loop fuel injection - better control over mixtures should allow
	better milage / more power and better control over detonation.  The
	Holley "Pro-Jection" is a relatively cheap route but I've heard bad
	things about the electonics on the internet.  I believe Edlbrock makes
	a stand alone port injected system but it runs around $3000 mail 
	order.  I've always wondered if it were possible to adapt the Ford EFI
	unit to an other wise stock aftermarket manifold.  You could machine
	for the injectors, use a carb for a throttle contro -or fit the Ford
	unit (need that throttle position sensor)- mount oxygen sensor, and
	use and aftermarket MAF sensor (tuned to the injectors of course).
	You would need different fuel pumps etc. Can anyone comment?  Their
	should be plenty of donor cars out their.

I'm going to run into the same problem.  I have 9.8 - 10.0 : 1 on my truck 
engine to be installed - the wildest cam is going to be 268 advertised 
duration.  Since I still need low end torque I'm afraid to go any wilder.  I'm 
going to make a separate post to get more info from the net.

Good Luck
Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 30 15:35:38 1993
Subject: Final touches on an engine rebuild - opinions wanted
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5675
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm build an engine for a Chevy Blazzer that I'm restoring/modifying 
(restoring the outer sheet metal - can you say rust :-().  Anyway the machine 
work on the engine was completed a year ago (some surface rust has even 
formed)- I haven't assembled it but I will this summer.

The engine is a 350 - from '75 corvette
steel crank
LT1 rods - with SPS bolts
Manley flat top forged pistons - very close to TRW / Speed Pro ones
Plasma Moly top ring
'492 double hump heads with accesory bolts ('69 early hp heads)
	-64cc (heads have been decked / surfaced)
	-SS valves 1.92 intake and 1.60 exhaust
	-with dual springs/ bronze guides/guide plates etc....
	-bowl area ported
	-matched to Edelbroc performer Intake.
	-650 double pump carb (might switch to vacumm secondary one)
	****Next time I'll get Dart heads and save a little***

The blazer is heavy - 4700 lbs, I've got a DN 5 speed set up for a NP203 
transfer case - hope I can get it to work with the NP205 currently installed.  
This means I have a 3.36 first gear with 3.07 final drive.

I have two questions:
1) What about Zero Gap second rings... I hear they're good but can they last
	80,000 miles?  What's the opion on the net?
2) Since I'm going to be near 10:1 compression I'm considerering all types
	of solutions that will let me live with cheap gas.  Has anyone 
implemented reverse flow cooling on their engines. (I mean modify an 
"standard" system to work in the reverse direction).  Does anyone know of 
articles magazines that discuss this kind of conversion?  Any opinions on how 
it should be done.  Custom electric water pumps are easy to buy - but they all 
say "drag race use only" - does anyone know of an exception?  Not enough flow? 
 Circle track had an article showing the Hendrick Motorsport Chevy race motor 
- it had purge lines running from the back of the cylinder heads - I think 
this would help keeping the heads cool - but maybe I could get the water to 
flow through lines like these. 

Any comments about the set-up would be appriciated.  It was my intention to 
build an extremely reliable engine (ie one that would not leave me stranded 
deep in the woods).  No fuel injection, electric fuel-pump as backup to a 
mechanical one, hyd cam, HEI ignition.... Oh yeah NO2 for performance - but 
Marland has made it illegal -> thanks to some moroooooons that made homemade 
NO2 setups that eventually injured some firefighters after an accident.
But I'm not bitter :-|....

Thanks in advance
Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Jun 30 18:44:05 1993
Subject: Re: Back on line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5676
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 How do the Ford E4OD overdrive 4-speed autos compare to the 700R4 as far as
durability, capacity, ratios? I never see them mentioned, but they're 
behind the 302 on big fords nowadays. Our MkVII has the 225HP 302, E4OD
and Traction-Loc; now that it's out of warranty I can begin to play.
Thing just loafs on the highway; 2000RPM @ 70. Anybody ever break an E4OD?
Being stuck between a 3:1 rear and 400lb-ft (I wish...) is what you call
job-related stress. If I got the wife a Vortec for "her" birthday, would I
be getting a new tranny for mine?

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)