From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 08:38:59 1993
Subject: Re: GM Bellhousing 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5163
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

--------

   In message  , you write:
 
| I need a bellhousing to mate to a '79 Chevy 350 SB engine. The
| bore size is not important, since I'm adapting it to fit a
| Ford four speed transmission.
|
| I am looking for the version that can accomadate a 14" flywheel.
| 

Ford transmission into a Jeep ... a T-18? I used a SM-465 in
my Jeep, but I'm helping my brother with a T-18 in his. We
both used a standard Lakewood "safety" bellhousing, but I had
to modify the index in mine. With a few exceptions, there are
primarily two types of bellhousings. One has an index of
4.xxx" used with car transmissions and the other is 5.xxx"
used with trucks.  Both will accommodate a 14" flywheel and
have the same bolt patterns. Almost every one modifies the
transmission in this conversion. Typically the outer diameter
of the bearing retainer is turned down to match the 4.xxx"
index of the car bellhousing, two or three of the mounting
holes on the transmission are slotted, and a lug welded on for
the fourth. You'll need an experienced welder for the lug
since the transmission case is cast iron. Put in a GM-to-Ford
pilot bushing, and the rest is easy :). I had what you are
looking for last Fall, but I scrapped it thinking I would
never need it. That one came from a junk yard.

| Incidentally, the Chevy SB and Ford trans are going into an AMC
| Jeep, so I'm used to doing things the hard way...

If your 350 is anything like mine (near 300HP), maybe I can
help make things a little easier once you start breaking drive
shafts and twisting axles.  My Jeep is "cherry" and doesn't
see any off pavement driving and I had no problem twisting
aftermarket forged axles in the AMC Model 20 ( Dura Blue 
axles / Detroit Locker / 33" tires / 4.11:1). I converted over
to a Summers Bothers Dana 60.

                                       John S Gwynne
                                          Gwynne.1@osu.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
               T h e   O h i o - S t a t e   U n i v e r s i t y
    ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA
                Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292
   Girls, Dirt Bikes, Jeeps, and Democracy. Is this a great Country or what?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: John S Gwynne 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 10:41:16 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5164
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
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The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
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----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 12:43:02 1993
Subject: Re: "Ram-Air" systems
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5165
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> Hi. There are several kits available for scooping
> air from the front of a car and feeding it to the
> air filter, presumably aiding in the breathing of
> the motor. (Mine is a late model Mustang)
> 
> The concept sounds plausible, at least for a fuel system
> that adapts well to the air flow.
> 
> What is the opinion of this august body?

Gale Banks told me that you'll see an increase of about 1hp
for every 10 degrees F you drop the intake air temp.  Underhood
air temp can EASILY be 100F over ambient.  That's 10 hp if you can
feed ambient air to the intake without restricting flow.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 13:38:35 1993
Subject: RE: "Ram-Air" systems
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5166
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Hi. There are several kits available for scooping
>air from the front of a car and feeding it to the
>air filter, presumably aiding in the breathing of
>the motor. (Mine is a late model Mustang)

Kenny Bell Products offer a Ram Air system for tthe late model 
mustang.  They claim something like .3 sec and 3 mph in the 
quarter mile making it the single best dollar per horsepower 
modifcation.  I know someone who has bought it but has not 
installed it.  His concern is small rodents.  Ken Bell's 
catalog has a basic philosophy on modifing mustangs and they 
publishes test data to back it up.  I'm slightly sceptical but 
it doesn't seem totally unreasonable.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 13:44:26 1993
Subject: RE: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5167
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Now, they both have the 326 motor in them, and I haven't
>the slightest clue about it.  Is it a good motor?  I intend 
>to rebuild the
>motor in whichever car I buy, although there's also a 400 
>listed in the parts
>section.....

>What's the general opinion of the 326?  Is it a good enigne 
>to build up?  Are
>parts available for it?  When did they stop making them?

I once test drove a 67 GTO with a 326 in it.  The owner 
claimed to have replaced the origional 4 barrel with a 2 for 
better gas milage.  A quick check confirmed my suspicions - He 
was trying to rip me off.

It made good noise but had all the get-up-and-go of my parents 
318 plymouth station wagon.  Just louder  

326 cu in - with the weight of 455 cuin.

If possible go with the 400.  I eventually bought a 70 GTO 
with one and couldn't have been happier (except maybe if it 
had been a four speed car).  A well tuned 400 / 4-speed 
firebird can to 13.00's in the quarter mile (quadra jet/stock 
exhaust manifolds, mild cam, and sreet tires= 12.71 at 
102mph).

My opinion: High torque + 4speed is the most livable 
combination.

If you interested in modifications:
Many parts are interchangeble except with late 400 pontiacs 
and 301 pontiacs (these are to be avoided - tough to get even 
headers).  I would double check on piston / connecting rod / 
crankshafts interchangeability- if you anticipate rebuilding. 

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 21:47:06 1993
Subject: TPS?  
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5168
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Just thought I had to share this little item with all of you....

    While accumulating parts for my Olds FI project, I just came
across a _original_ Throttle Position Sensor for the 76-79 FI'd Olds 
350's found in Sevilles and Eldos....

   Unit is stamped BOSCH, and has a 5 pin output.   Upon dis-assembly 
(It's NOT a sealed unit, by any stretch of the imagination), it
reveals some interesting things....   It has 2 contacts in it, one to
tell it when the throttle is in closing action, or in a opening
(accelerating) action.    Another contact (trace) tell it when it's
above or below 3/4 throttle.  When 3/4 throttle contacts are shorted
together, it implies full throttle.

   What tells it the delta-acceleration?   Easy.    On the trace that
is active while it is accerating (opening throttle), the wiper goes
over a "serated" area, in effect pulseing the output.   Odd.   Truly
odd.

   Other stuff included the intake air temp sensor screwed into the
intake, with no insulator, in the runner that's about 1/2 inch from
the exhaust crossover.   Yeah, real accurate.

   No 02 sensor, no MAP sensor (that I could find), and a HEI with a
vacumme advance.   Oddly, this thing started faster than most FI's
cars I've had.   Ran pretty good too.   (It was in the bone-yard with
a bad trans, so the guy gave me the manifold/injectors/harness for
$30, provided I removed  them) 8> 8>!

     Makes you realize just how far we've come in 10 years.   

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

[Gad, deja-vue all over again.  I was just working on one of those systems
last week.  A friend has a ragged out 76 Seville with the original injectors.
It was running like warmed over sin.  Two injectors were completely clogged.
Never seen that before.  

Anyway, not a bad engine when properly tuned.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 21:53:03 1993
Subject: Head porting - dynamic flow
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5169
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> mod that yields a 'constant flow' improvement still result in an
-> improvement in the 'dynamic flow' of a running engine?

 Yunick, Jenkins, SuperFlow, and Ford say continuous flow is sufficient.
Me... it looks like the valve opening and closing cause the whole thing
to go into a cocked hat.  For example, increasing bowl volume normally
does diddly-squat for static flow, but it appears to help overall
throughput on an actual, running engine.

 John has someone doing a flow bench article for PE now.  We've talked
about doing a motored "bench" before, and I will probably be building
one this summer.  With a motored bench you could also test the intake
system as a whole.  Not too important with individual runner port
injection systems, but for throttle body or carburetion on ye olde
X-plane, it looks like internal aerodynamics could get all weird in
there.
                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 21:58:41 1993
Subject: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5170
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I'm faced with a tough decision: should I get a '66 Lemans or '66
-> Firebird?

 Well, the first year for the Firebird was '67...   A friend of
mine has a fully restored '65 Le Mans with the 326 and automatic.  The
engine is getting a bit weak, and I've talked him into pulling it,
shoving it under the bench, and putting in a mildly reworked 400.  Later
he can always slide the 326 in if he gets the hots for absolute
originality.  We've looked for a 455 for over a year and haven't found
one (or a 421) so we're settling on the 400.


-> completely original.  Now, they both have the 326 motor in them, and
-> I haven't the slightest clue about it.  Is it a good motor?  I intend
-> to rebuild the motor in whichever car I buy, although there's also a
-> 400 listed in the parts section.....

 All Pontiac V8s are basically the same, except for the 301, which is
best forgotten.  All Pontiac V8 rods are 6.625 inches long.  The round
port heads (some of the hipo 350s had them, and some of the 400s) have
2.11/1.77 valves.  Compare that to the "Brand C" motors with their dinky
5.7 rods and nerdy little 2.02/1.60 valves.  Although I couldn't
actually admit it due to brand loyalty, it's better than Brand F engines
too.  The 4V Pontiacs also usually had windage trays, lots of room in
the crankcase to minimize windage problems, screw in studs, and the
usual hallmarks of performance engines.  Then, likely as not, Pontiac
would drop them into four door Bonneville station wagons.  Go figure.

 The problem, of course, is that the 326 is just as big as a 455, and
although it's plenty tough, it's a honking big motor weighing down the
front of the car.  Since you're gonna have the same weight anyway, might
as well go for the glory and get a 455 if you can find one; it's a
direct bolt-in.  Then you put your 326 air cleaner on it and tell
people, "yeah, those old pre-smog motors, they run pretty good, don't
they?  Man, you should SEE what a 455 will do..."   


 You might want to check with your insurance company before making a
decision.  Insurance rates are derived from astrology and sheep
entrails.  My company, for example, goes into conniptions when "Camaro"
or "Mustang" are mentioned, and automatically slam you with the higher
rate, even if the car is a four or six cylinder.
                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 22:06:01 1993
Subject: GM Bellhousing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5171
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I need a bellhousing to mate to a '79 Chevy 350 SB engine. The
-> bore size is not important, since I'm adapting it to fit a
-> Ford four speed transmission.

 You'll probably have better luck looking at yards which specialize in
pickups and the like.  The big flywheels weren't all that common in
passenger cars.

 If you want to go high-dollar, Lakewood sells a blowproof bellhousing
for GM with a Ford snout adapter ring, since the Top Loaders are popular
with the drag race crowd.
                                                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  1 22:11:32 1993
Subject: High Voltage Warning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5172
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I've just finished repairing two MSD-7AL ignition boxes for a friend who
shall remain nameless in order to protect the guilty.  One I had fixed
about 3 weeks ago.  The other one MSD had fixed at about the same time.
Both died while being used on his dyno.  The same thing killed both of
them.  High battery voltage.  This note is a warning as to how to avoid
the problem.  Fortunately the "fuse" in the -7 box is the power
transistors that only cost about $10.

Based on a hunch from seeing how his dyno room is configured, I sent him
a small stripchart recorder locked in a box with instructions to 
connect it to the battery on the dyno used to start the motors and
to let it run for a day and send it back to me.  The results are
interesting.

The dyno sits unused for long periods of time so the standard fare is 
to roll over the shop battery charger at the beginning of a test run,
hook it up and slam it on fast charge.  There it sits until the test
session is over.  Therein lies the problem.

When the battery is new it can take this treatment.  Fast charging does
shorten the battery life but it can generally take the current without
the terminal voltage increasing too much.  Not so as a battery ages
and its impedance rises.  The typical garage quick charger is a fairly
high voltage, fairly high impedance power supply designed to force 
lots of current into the battery regardless of terminal voltage.
Open circuit voltage can be 20 volts or more.

What I saw happen on the dyno battery was the quiesent voltage sitting
at about 11.5 volts which indicates a sick battery.  When the quick
charger hit it, the voltage quickly rose to 16 volts and crept up 
to over 20.  MSD boxes start getting annoyed at about 15 volts and
will puke a transistor or two at your feet at around 16 or 17 volts.
That is exactly what happened to both of these boxes.

The lesson here of course, is if you're going to use a quick charger,
disconnect the battery from everything.  This is particularly important
with fuel injected cars because the fuel injection computer typically
has voltage on it all the time

John

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May  2 14:27:00 1993
Subject: Re: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5173
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


As for what a 455 will do in a car consider a coworker at the gas 
station I worked at last summer bought a 1973 olds 98.  this car 
was a whale!  3 tons of moving steel.  had a 455.  

he'd hit the gas hard somtimes for show and this is what would happen. 
THe car would not move.  THe rear tires would be spinning at oh...about 
100 miles an hour.  Smoking everywhare.  and you could watch, repeat,
watch the gas gauge go down.  but I guess thats what happens when 
you open the tghrottle all the way.

well just thought i'd share that....

John

----------
Posted by: John Wilentz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May  2 14:36:50 1993
Subject: Pistons, parts, pricing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5174
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm just about to send my American Sedan Mustang 5.0 motor off to the
machine shop for a good bit of work.  I had ordered TRW pistons from
PAW (TRW L2482) that were supposed to be "exact factory duplicates"
(like the AS rules require).  I even called TRW to verify that.  In
addition, they were forged aluminum, and only a little over $150 for
the set of eight.

Well, when I they came in, I compared them to the pistons that came
out of my '88 GT, the pistons were obviously a little different.  The
piston ring heights and spacing were a little different, and there was
a dimple about 3/8" in diameter and 1/4" deep in the middle of the top
of each piston (lathe attach point?  forging mark?).  Otherwise, the
top was flat (the Ford factory part has a very slight depression in
the middle two thirds), but the valve reliefs look very close to the
Ford parts.  I did a little bit of research, and discovered that Ford
changed from English to Metric piston ring sizes for the 5.0HO motors
in 1986. So TRW is using the pre-86 ring widths and spacing for their
late model replacement pistons.

I wouldn't really care much about this, expect for having to conform
to the rulebook.  So, I called JBA and got a price for the Ford
replacement pistons in the 30 over size.  They told me $46 each!!!

So,

1) Where is the best price to be had on genuine Ford replacement
   parts? I've got to be able to do better than $46 each!

2) Is the TRW piston in fact a duplicate of an earlier ('85 maybe?)
   piston that I can use legally?

3) How hard would it be to get the SCCA to recognize the TRW piston
   as legal for the AS class?  Anybody out there ever get this kind
   of thing done?

4) Would it be better to use the earlier pistons with the
   thicker rings, or the later pistons with narrower rings?


-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May  2 14:47:01 1993
Subject: Cams, gears, and mileage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5175
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Subject: Cams, gears, and mileage

I am getting near the point of settling the cam/rearend choice for my
'70 Caprice, since I just got a "real" job after being a student for 23 years,
and I am hoping to start cutting metal soon.  My question concerns the effect
of this choice on mileage, or more to the point (given that this will be a
propane rig with trailering capability) range.  The guy on the tech line at
Crane Cams sez that, as long as the cam isn't so long that a lot of the intake 
charge gets flushed right out the exhaust at low speeds, the cam/rearend combo
will make little difference; his logic is that, for a fixed driving cycle,
basic engine choice (350 CID Chevy vs., say, a 4-banger that needs much more
throttle and therefore runs at a higher efficiency at a given cruising output)
and vehicle weight and aerodynamics are far bigger effects than the extra
frictional losses arising at higher revs with a bigger cam/lower rearend.
This appears to be borne out by the fact that factory mileage figures on the
trucks I've looked at don't vary among otherwise identical models with
different gearing; however, these all had the same cam, and for all I know
they only rate the "standard" ratio and then write it down on all the others
too.  What have been your observations in cases where you've tried different
setups on a given car?

For concreteness, I'm talking about a fairly short/tall combo here (202-214
intake degrees at .050", 2.56 to 3.31 gears) with a TH400; I'm also concerned
about the range of my vaporware car (216-222 degrees, 3.70 to 4.11, TH350?)
since I plan to run her on natural gas.  BTW, since I didn't get a lot of
amused/horrified responses to my posting "Drag/Slalom Pickup Truck??" and
since the Global West guru says they can "handle" it with no trouble, I may
very well decide to go with the '65 El Camino.  "Now look what you made me do!" 
Well, I'll burn that bridge when I come to it, i.e., when I have to get a
"beater" to drive while I take ol' Betsy-the-Carapace apart...

--Mark Looper
"Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"

----------
Posted by: emory!cco.caltech.edu!looper (Mark D. Looper)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May  2 14:53:21 1993
Subject: Re: Head porting - dynamic flow
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5176
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>  John has someone doing a flow bench article for PE now.  We've talked
> about doing a motored "bench" before, and I will probably be building
> one this summer.  With a motored bench you could also test the intake
> system as a whole.  Not too important with individual runner port
> injection systems, but for throttle body or carburetion on ye olde
> X-plane, it looks like internal aerodynamics could get all weird in
> there.
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

At one of the Superflow conferences I went to, one of the speakers was
talking about having a flow bench where the heads, intake, where
bolted onto a modified block.  The bottom of block the block had eight
hoses on it (one per cylinder... V-8).  The hoses were used to
alternately provide vacuum and pressure while a big electric motor
turned the crank (and thus the cam and valves).  They were able to
measure the airflow through the entire system.  Sounds pretty
radical, but I think a number of Winston Cup teams are working
with setups like this, especially for restrictor plate motors.
I think Yunick also has a similar setup in one of his labs.

-Bob

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May  2 16:27:38 1993
Subject: Re: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5177
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Speaking of Pontiac 455s...
I just put one in my '79 Firebird, along with a TH400 and a 3.73 posi
(10-bolt! don't know how long it will last) rear end.
It's pretty quick, still some bugs to work out though.
Such as:
Sometimes when the engine is hot (195 degrees on a 180 thermostat) and 
I slow down from >30 mph to an idle, tons of white smoke pour out the
passenger side of the exhaust (true duals), and a little from the left.
If I shut down and let it cool a bit, the problem seems to go away
except that at idle, I can see a little white/blue smoke from the 
passenger tailpipe but no exhaust from the driver's.  It's there, I
can feel it, but I can't see it.
Compression was fine (plug #8 seemed darker/richer than the rest).
Carberator was rebuilt, but problem still occurred (I thought it
might be a sticking float/needle & seat).
BUt now I'm thinking head gaskets, but I hope this isn't it because
the engine has 700 miles on it since it was rebuilt and I would
really hate to pull it/drop it in again!!!
Any ideas?

----------
Posted by: emory!Calvin.EDU!tkloos16 (Torin Klooster)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May  2 16:37:17 1993
Subject: Re: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5178
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Sun, 2 May 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> As for what a 455 will do in a car consider a coworker at the gas 
> station I worked at last summer bought a 1973 olds 98.  this car 
> was a whale!  3 tons of moving steel.  had a 455.  
> 
> he'd hit the gas hard somtimes for show and this is what would happen. 
> THe car would not move.  THe rear tires would be spinning at oh...about 
> 100 miles an hour.  Smoking everywhare.  and you could watch, repeat,
> watch the gas gauge go down.  but I guess thats what happens when 
> you open the tghrottle all the way.
> 
> well just thought i'd share that....

thats great John *grin*
is that the ghetto cruser look?

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May  2 19:12:53 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5179
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>On Sun, 2 May 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:
>
>> As for what a 455 will do in a car consider a coworker at the gas 
>> station I worked at last summer bought a 1973 olds 98.  this car 
>> was a whale!  3 tons of moving steel.  had a 455.  
>> 
>> he'd hit the gas hard somtimes for show and this is what would happen. 
>> THe car would not move.  THe rear tires would be spinning at oh...about 
>> 100 miles an hour.  Smoking everywhare.  and you could watch, repeat,
>> watch the gas gauge go down.  but I guess thats what happens when 
>> you open the tghrottle all the way.
>> 
>> well just thought i'd share that....
>
>thats great John *grin*
>is that the ghetto cruser look?
>
>----------
>Posted by: 
> 
>
>
>

Naw...he left it stock

----------
Posted by: John Wilentz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 07:52:21 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5180
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


If going fast is your thing heres an idea for you....

Take a handy 409 engine thats lying around and drop in a Karmann 
Ghia....whooo boy let the fun begin....

[Well, I did used to work with a fellow who dropped a big block chevy
into a Corvair.  Flipped the transaxle around so the engine went where
the back seat used to go.  I was driving my first turbo-Z car at the
time.  He and I would stage the daily Browns Ferry Nuclear Plant
Grand Prix on the ~2 mile long access road every evening as we left
work.  His problem was whichever direction the thing happened to be 
pointing when he pulled the trigger was where it went.  The added
weight and the tendency of that motor to send the tires back to their
roots (liquid state) made the car almost uncontrollable.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: John Wilentz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 15:35:29 1993
Subject: 66? Firebird
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5181
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Go with the 66 (sic) Firebird. They are rare as hell since they
didn't go into production until 1967. :-)

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 15:47:06 1993
Subject: Pistons, parts, pricing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5182
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> 3) How hard would it be to get the SCCA to recognize the TRW piston
-> as legal for the AS class?  Anybody out there ever get this kind
-> of thing done?

 The NHRA doesn't care, as long as the dome configuration is as similar
as possible and the pistons weigh about the same as the stockers.  The
SCCA Rule Nazis... you have two choices:  decide for yourself they're
equivalent parts and to hell with the SCCA, or write the BoD for an
official permission.

 I dunno about Ford, but I've never taken down to Chevy engines which
had even approximately similar pistons.  GM either issues change orders
daily or they have a zillion vendors supplying parts.
                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 15:56:59 1993
Subject: Cams, gears, and mileage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5183
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> intake degrees at .050", 2.56 to 3.31 gears) with a TH400; I'm also
-> concerned about the range of my vaporware car (216-222 degrees, 3.70
-> to 4.11, TH350?) since I plan to run her on natural gas.

 Use the T700R4.  3.03 first, 30% overdrive, lockup convertor.  As long
as you don't need to shell out big bucks for a high stall convertor, it
shouldn't cost much more than a T400.


-> amused/horrified responses to my posting "Drag/Slalom Pickup Truck??"
-> and since the Global West guru says they can "handle" it with no

 The weight distribution of the ElCo is about the same as the standard
Chevelle.  That steel bed is heavier than it looks.  A friend of mine
use to autocross a '79 and did as well as anyone in his class.

 I may be in the same situation you are.  I haven't been able to locate
an early Falcon two door at all.  Lots of four doors and wagons... and
several Rancheros.    The Ranchero just doesn't fit the image of
what I want to build.  Frankly, I couldn't mind a four door, but it'd be
impossible to sell when the time came.
                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 16:04:30 1993
Subject: Re: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5184
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I just put one in my '79 Firebird, along with a TH400 and a 3.73 posi
-> (10-bolt! don't know how long it will last) rear end.

 John Tolleson's lasted four years behind a STOUT 470 and is, as far as
I know, still doing just fine in the hands of its new owner.


-> If I shut down and let it cool a bit, the problem seems to go away
-> except that at idle, I can see a little white/blue smoke from the

 Textbook head gasket problem.  At least, you should hope it's a head
gasket - a cracked head or block will do the same, but they're not
anywhere near as common.

 Pontiac engines seem to be a bit picky about head gasket sealing.  I
don't care WHAT kind of miracle-whoopee gasket it is, run the car half
an hour and retorque the damned thing anyway.  And make sure the head
bolt threads in the block are clean (.45 cal gun brushes are good -
check your department store) and use GM head bolt sealer or KW
Kopper-Kote on the threads before you torque the heads.
                                                                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 16:09:51 1993
Subject: Re: GM Bellhousing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5185
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , you write:
> I need a bellhousing to mate to a '79 Chevy 350 SB engine. The
> bore size is not important, since I'm adapting it to fit a
> Ford four speed transmission.
> 
> I am looking for the version that can accomadate a 14" flywheel.
> 
> Does anyone know:
>   What GM makes might have this?
>   A good source for a used one?
>   If I can weld one if it's cracked?
> 
> 
> Mike
> PS - Thanks for the helpful replies to my brake line question. Ya'll
>      are great!
> 
>
A Lakewood scattershield/bellhousing should work fine. And, I just happen to
have one for sale! Imagine that! It's used to mate a 400 SB to a Muncie 
4sp. I am running a big-block clutch/flywheel. I'm not sure about the flywheel
diameter, but the clutch is an 11" unit. The flywheel is probably 14".
Mail mikes@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu if interested in the bellhousing. Oh, I also
need to sell the rest of the 4sp stuff:
Muncie M-21 
Hurst Indy Shifter (nearly new)
Flywheel
Clutch/pressure plate/T.O. bearing (nearly new)
Complete clutch linkage for early ('62-'67) Nova-Chevy II
Good luck...
Mike


From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 16:44:06 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5186
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Mon, 3 May 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

If going fast is your thing heres an idea for you....
 
 Take a handy 409 engine thats lying around and drop in a Karmann 
 Ghia....whooo boy let the fun begin....
 
 [Well, I did used to work with a fellow who dropped a big block chevy
 into a Corvair.  Flipped the transaxle around so the engine went where
 the back seat used to go.  I was driving my first turbo-Z car at the
 time.  He and I would stage the daily Browns Ferry Nuclear Plant
 Grand Prix on the ~2 mile long access road every evening as we left
 work.  His problem was whichever direction the thing happened to be 
 pointing when he pulled the trigger was where it went.  The added
 weight and the tendency of that motor to send the tires back to their
 roots (liquid state) made the car almost uncontrollable.  JGD]

In reply to John, well well well, as I seem to recal, that was the death
trapp mobile, at speeds of over 85 , the car was basically uncontrolable,
there wasn't enough weight to keep it on the ground.. 
*grin*  
 

<%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%><%>
		Fear causes hesitation and hesitation will
		cause your worse fears to come true....
		so it's simple, you project strength
			to avoid conflict........

----------
Posted by: "[Bjornson, Richard  WYC 012 x2034]........................." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 16:50:37 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5187
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>
>If going fast is your thing heres an idea for you....
>
>Take a handy 409 engine thats lying around and drop in a Karmann 
>Ghia....whooo boy let the fun begin....
>
>[Well, I did used to work with a fellow who dropped a big block chevy
>into a Corvair.  Flipped the transaxle around so the engine went where
>the back seat used to go.  I was driving my first turbo-Z car at the
>time.  He and I would stage the daily Browns Ferry Nuclear Plant
>Grand Prix on the ~2 mile long access road every evening as we left
>work.  His problem was whichever direction the thing happened to be 
>pointing when he pulled the trigger was where it went.  The added
>weight and the tendency of that motor to send the tires back to their
>roots (liquid state) made the car almost uncontrollable.  JGD]
>----------
>Posted by: John Wilentz 
> 
>
>
>


Well scince I know that the afforementioned swap was done to a Karmann 
Ghia lets see if i can recall a few interesting points......

well first of all you could be going 70 mph and if you floored the 
gas youd crack the tires loose instantly.
Karman Ghias werent really made to go over 70...so at 75+ they start 
getting really nasty handleing wise....they start to watn to fly. 
 theis makes them very difficult to steer.
Im not sure what tires the guy had on it...wide very wide im sure...
If he was sitting at a stop sign and there was a cop there he would 
have to heel toe it REALLY carfully rideing the clutch for a block 
or more to keep it from peeling out...
NEVER could hit the gas from a stop even in the slightest....
I f he did tires returned to molten state....

but the car was fast.
and powerful...consider that a Karmann Ghia wheighs about 1900 -2000 
lbs.  nasty Hp to wheight ratio.


----------
Posted by: John Wilentz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 19:20:58 1993
Subject: RE: Head porting - dynamic flow
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5188
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



> John has someone doing a flow bench article for PE now.  We've talked
>about doing a motored "bench" before, and I will probably be building
>one this summer.  With a motored bench you could also test the intake
>system as a whole.  

Would it be possible to get a small camera/fiber optic device to 
monitor airflow.  I'm thinking that something like what they do for 
wind tunnels.  Maybe you can "see" trouble spotss in stead of trial and 
error.  I have seen wind tunnel test with smoke injected into the 
airstream.

Would a similar arangement be possible or am I just blowing smoke?
                                
Dirk                                             

[I've never had much  luck with smoke because of the problem of making 
a smoke stream small enough to mean anything.  What does work, and what
comes with most commercial flowbenches, is a small hand-held pitot tube.
This can be used to probe around a port to see where the velocity profiles
are.  The problem with the commercial benches is they all seem to use 
large Dwyer water manometers.  These devices are slow to respond to 
begin with and when fed with a small bore pitot tube, are intolerably
slow.  A small pressure transducer close coupled to the probe and connected
to either a bargraph or an oscilliscope is vastly more responsive and will
allow one to see turbulence.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 19:26:41 1993
Subject: Re: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5189
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Sometimes when the engine is hot (195 degrees on a 180 thermostat) and 
>I slow down from >30 mph to an idle, tons of white smoke pour out the
>passenger side of the exhaust (true duals), and a little from the 
>left.
>If I shut down and let it cool a bit, the problem seems to go away
>except that at idle, I can see a little white/blue smoke from the 
>passenger tailpipe but no exhaust from the driver's.  It's there, I
>can feel it, but I can't see it.
>Compression was fine (plug #8 seemed darker/richer than the rest).
>Carberator was rebuilt, but problem still occurred (I thought it
>might be a sticking float/needle & seat).
>BUt now I'm thinking head gaskets, but I hope this isn't it because
>the engine has 700 miles on it since it was rebuilt and I would
>really hate to pull it/drop it in again!!!
>Any ideas?

Sounds like head gasket.  Ran into the same thing on a Turbo Thunder 
bird.  When the engine go hot it began to dump water into Number 1.  
Since it was a four cylinder it nearly killed the engine.  Since water 
flowed in at a steady rate - higher rpms caused less dilution.
Try doing a compression test when the engine is hot.  Make sure you 
pull all the plugs and leave the throttle wide open.



It shouldn't be your carb if your running a dual plane intake. 1-4-6-7 
and 2-3-5-8 are on different sides of the manifold.  Any problem with 
one "side"(intake manifold side that is) should show up at both 
exhausts.

Good Luck
Dirk


----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 19:32:01 1993
Subject: Need help building fuel injected Renault engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5190
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have a Renault 843 engine (1647cc, hemi). This engine was used in the R17.

It is to go into my 1969 Lotus Europa as a replacement for the stock Renault
821 (1565cc, non-hemi head) engine.

I wish to fuel inject this engine.

I am considering basing my system on the Bosch L Jetronic (+lambda) system
used in the Renault Fuego. A local junkyard has an air flow sensor, throttle,
plenum/intake manifold, O2 sensor, wiring harness, and brain from a Fuego for
$125.

I have been told that an intake manifold for the Fuego should bolt right on to
my 843 engine.

I intend this to be a "base camp" system. I'd like to get it online and fully
debugged before exploring other interesting ideas such as a hot-wire air mass
sensor, rising rate pressure regulator, custom control unit....

My problem is that the plenum/intake manifold for the Fuego is too large to fit
in the engine compartment of the Europa. (The Fuego manifold intake runners are
very long).

Some versions of the R17, in particular the R17 Gordini, were fuel injected.
I have a Haynes manual for the R17 that shows drawings of its system. In the
R17, the intake manifolds were little 'Y' shaped pieces. The injector bolted
into the top of the 'Y'. The air plenum was connected the bottom of each 'Y'
by flexible hoses. This configuration should fit in my engine compartment.

So, the "easiest" way for me to proceed appears to be finding an air plenum,
and intake manifolds from an R17.

Can anyone out there suggest a possible source for these bits? Any leads at
all will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Mark Reichert
markr@eye.com

ps. Sad story: Recently, I had heard of an R17 Gordini that was in a local
    junkyard. I went out there last saturday. Sure enough, he had gotten
    one in a few years ago. And, it was fuel injected. And, no one had taken
    any of the parts off of it. Unfortunately, that was the problem - no one
    was taking any parts off it. The guy sent it to the crusher last September.

----------
Posted by: Mark Reichert 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 19:38:25 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5191
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>[Well, I did used to work with a fellow who dropped a big block chevy
>into a Corvair.  Flipped the transaxle around so the engine went where
>the back seat used to go.  I was driving my first turbo-Z car at the
>time.  He and I would stage the daily Browns Ferry Nuclear Plant
>Grand Prix on the ~2 mile long access road every evening as we left
>work.  His problem was whichever direction the thing happened to be 
>pointing when he pulled the trigger was where it went.  The added
>weight and the tendency of that motor to send the tires back to their
>roots (liquid state) made the car almost uncontrollable.  JGD]

In fact, I think the Corvair actually made into the 10 worst-designed
cars ever built in a book on automotive lemons.  I can't remember
the name of the book (perhaps Automotive Lemons) but I was flipping
through the pages in a bookstore and noticed the Corvair in it.  The
author noted that it had really nasty rear-end behaviour.  I'm not
sure but I think they had equiped it with a swing-axle or something equally
assinine.

Anyhow, John, that was no ordinary poor-handling car you were driving.
It was a world-class lemon, according to the author of that book.

Cheers,

Andy

PS: What *is* the correct title of the book?

[Don't know about the book.  Wouldn't have been authored by Nader would
it?  My co-worker's car had maybe 500 extra pounds hung off the back
so "funny" handling was to be expected.

I'm actually quite fond of the Corvair.  The turbo Spyders were 
fairly fast and the handling was superior to most of the rest of the 
market at the time.  It certainly handled as well as one of the cult 
cars of era, the Porche 912.  

There is, BTW, a very active national Corvair club.  The local chapter
invited me to their meeting awhile back.  Lots of very nice hardware.

Then there was my aunt's corvair that deposited its engine in the 
middle of an intersection one day ... :-)   JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!lessfilling.rutgers.edu!froncio (Andy Froncioni)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May  3 19:43:34 1993
Subject: Metal Finishing Recipes, for anodization etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5192
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I used to have a really informative book on metal finishing.
It had recipes for anodizing, plating, irriditing and many other techniques for
some neat things. I lost it somewhere in the last 20 yrs. :(
Does anyone have some anodizing recipes and specs?
Does anyone know where to obtain this book, ie; a name and publisher?
Our local-yocal library can't find anything for me.
I've kicked myself a thousand times for losing it, I think that it was published
in the 40's or 50's.
I have a bunch of stuff for my cars and my Harley that are in need of some 
homebrew finishing.

Thanks!
Millam

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 09:30:06 1993
Subject: Re: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5193
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I'm faced with a tough decision: should I get a '66 Lemans or '66 Firebird?  I
>like both cars and have wanted one for a while.  Well, there happens to be one
>of each for sale locally.  I've taken a look at both, and they seem to be in
>decent, average condition, with the Firebird perhaps a little worse for wear
>(it definitely need a new interior).  The nice thing is that both cars are
>completely original.  Now, they both have the 326 motor in them, and I haven't
>the slightest clue about it.  Is it a good motor?  I intend to rebuild the
>motor in whichever car I buy, although there's also a 400 listed in the parts
>section.....
>
>What's the general opinion of the 326?  Is it a good enigne to build up?  Are
>parts available for it?  When did they stop making them?

First off, Firebirds weren't produced until 1967.  As for the 326, it all
depends on your intended use of the car.  If your looking for a nice car
to drive around, the 326 is fine.  If you want a decent street performer,
swap the 326 for the 400.  Parts are readily available for both, and
rebuilt are very reliable engines.

----------
Posted by: emory!woods.ulowell.edu!dicksonj
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 09:37:32 1993
Subject: Re: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5194
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>PS: What *is* the correct title of the book?
>
>[Don't know about the book.  Wouldn't have been authored by Nader would
>it?  My co-worker's car had maybe 500 extra pounds hung off the back
>so "funny" handling was to be expected.
>
 I dont know the title of the book either but I know of it.  It also targets 
The VW squareback as a lemon.  Which it aint.  but i digress.....

anyway...

Naders a bastard pure and simple.  IMHO

JOhn


----------
Posted by: John Wilentz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 09:43:01 1993
Subject: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5195
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Following up to my own mail about Ford replacement pistons...

Well, there IS an "identical" Ford replacement piston available from
NAPA, and made by Dana (according to the guy at NAPA).  It seems to be
closer to the Ford part than the the TRW part is.  Guess what...  it
costs $46!  Almost exactly what JBA's price on the Ford part is.
Gack!  Why does NAPA bother?


-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 09:48:15 1993
Subject: RE: Head porting - dynamic flow
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5196
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> slow.  A small pressure transducer close coupled to the probe and
-> connected to either a bargraph or an oscilliscope is vastly more
-> responsive and will

 Is there any way to use... uh... dang, can't remember the name - the
method they use to photograph pressure waves in wind tunnels.  Schliren
Effect?  Laser interferometry?  Voodoo?

[I can't spell it either :-) Schliren is close enough.  Problem is
how would you get the light across the flow unless you do a plastic 
replica of the port.  Schliren photography uses polarized light
in transmission mode and depends on the turbulence to rotate the 
polarization.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 09:53:53 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5197
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> In fact, I think the Corvair actually made into the 10 worst-designed
-> cars ever built in a book on automotive lemons.  I can't remember the
-> name of the book (perhaps Automotive Lemons) but I was flipping

 It was showpieced in Nutball Nader's "Unsafe at Any Speed."  Basically,
he proved that if you did weird things with the tire pressure and
cranked the steering wheel fast enough left to right, while going about
70mph, you could get the car to roll over.  Alas, that's not nearly as
nasty as it sounds.  Chrysler K-cars will do it with the greatest of
ease, and it's possible with the second-generation Camaro.  All proof
that you can make things foolproof, but not damned-fool proof.

 My old '60 Corvair drove like any other car.  There are several
Corvairs which compete at local autocrosses - in Stock - and
consistently run in the upper pack.
                                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 12:40:48 1993
Subject: Corvair comments
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5198
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hmm, seems a few people have made comments about Corvairs that are, shall we 
way, less than true, like:

|> author noted that it had really nasty rear-end behaviour.  I'm not
|> sure but I think they had equiped it with a swing-axle or something equally
|> assinine.

Well, so were Spitfires and VW's and Porsches.  I haven't recently heard anyone 
say they were "asinine".  In any case, the rear suspension was redesigned in '65
to use unequal length control arms in the rear, a la 'vettes and Jags, and there
are still Corvairs that are competitive in national autocross competition.  Auto
writers of the time noted that they handled differently from the front engine 
American sedans most people were used to.  Not worse, just different.  Of 
course, in mainstream culture, different is *bad*.
|> 
|> Anyhow, John, that was no ordinary poor-handling car you were driving.
|> It was a world-class lemon, according to the author of that book.

That guy didn't do his homework very well.  He seems to have neglected the sales
figures, for one thing.  GM didn't have any more warrenty problems with it than 
any of their other cars.  What killed the Corvair was the Mustang, plain and 
simple.

Then there was this:

|> In reply to John, well well well, as I seem to recal, that was the death
|> trapp mobile, at speeds of over 85 , the car was basically uncontrolable,
|> there wasn't enough weight to keep it on the ground.. 
|> *grin*

Well, thanks for the grin, but my coupe doesn't seem to have any problems at 
speeds well in excess of 85 *grin*.  For that matter, there are a lot of cars 
that weigh less than a Corvair does (2800 pounds or so) that don't either.  How 
about aerodynamics?  Corvairs *do* get light at about 100 without the stock 
front spoiler, but so do most cars of the era.

In any case, there is a Corvair e-mail list too.  Requests can come to:

corvair-request@shadow.mitre.org


------
Bryan Blackwell bryan@mitre.org (703) 883 7329

'65 Corvair, '66 E-type, '69 Road Runner
If you have to ask the question, you won't understand the answer
------

----------
Posted by: "Bryan Blackwell"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 12:54:07 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5199
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I hope you guys can help me with this problem.  I have a '71 Monte Carlo,
350-4, 270 hp., all original don't ya know.  Anyway, when I first take the car
out it hesitates, like it's misfiring. And after the car has warmed up, it runs
like new again.  To remedy the problem, I changed the points (the originals)
and set the dwell angle to factory specs.  The car just starts quicker now, and
still hesitates upon startup.  If the gas is floored right away, it back-fires
through the Carb. and sprays gas everywhere.  So I try not to do that anymore.

I've been thinking that the timing could be off.  But as they say don't mess
with something that isn't broken.  But if that is the problem, I could easily
fix it.  Or could the valves be going?

Advice wanted, please!

Monty Marty
Address: 2ss1eberhard@vms.csd.mu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!vms.csd.mu.edu!2SS1EBERHARD
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 13:05:31 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-16* (Late)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5200
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hello all,

I talked to John about resuming the posts of my weekly (usually) TV
list, and he gave it his OK. The following is what's left from last
Friday's (4/30) issue. I'll try to get a new issue out first thing this
Friday.

Cheers - Bill

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. I am also starting to receive 
information directly from TNN (The Nashville Network) and am very 
grateful to them for their help. A special thanks to Dan Jones for 
passing along ESPN's racing schedule. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE     TIME(Eastern)  NETWORK

WINSTON CUP, TALLADEGA (T)            5/4      1:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Glory Days                            5/4      3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Parnelli Jones5/4      3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/5      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
WINSTON CUP, TALLADEGA (T)            5/5      3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/5      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Troy Ruttman) 5/5      3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
WORLD (MOTORCYCLE) G.P., JEREZ (T)    5/5      7:30-10:00PM     HTS*
WORLD (MOTORCYCLE) G.P., JEREZ (T)    5/6      12:00-2:30AM     HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/6      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           5/6      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Cycle World                           5/6      1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     5/6      2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                5/6      3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
This Week On Pit Road                 5/6      7:30-8:00PM      HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                5/6      8:00-8:30PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (Impreza wagon)         5/6      8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           5/6      8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     5/6      9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                5/6      10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR (L)               5/6     11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                5/7      12:00-12:30AM    HTS*
AMA SUPERCROSS, TAMPA (T)             5/7      12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Cycle World                           5/7      12:30-1:30AM     HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/7      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             5/7      1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Prime Time Motorsports                5/7      1:30-2:00AM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     5/7      2:00-3:00AM      HTS*
This Week In NASCAR (T)               5/7      3:00-4:00AM      HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/7      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (IndyCar, Long Beach)  5/7      1:30-2:00PM      ESPN
This Week In NASCAR (T)               5/7      2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Checkered Flag (Talladega)            5/7      5:00-5:30PM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/8      1:00-1:30AM      MTV

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (?)            5/8      TBA              TBA
SpeedWeek                             5/8      10:30-11:00PM    ESPN
FORMULA 1, BARCELONA, SPAIN (L)       5/9    7:50AM-10:00AM     TSN [1]
FORMULA 1, BARCELONA, SPAIN (SD) ?    5/9     9:50AM-12:00PM    ESPN
ASA, THE MILWAUKEE MILE (L)           5/9      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
FORMULA 1, BARCELONA, SPAIN (SD)      5/9     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, POLE DAY(L)  5/15     TBA              TBA
SpeedWeek                             5/15     10:30-11:00PM    ESPN
NASCAR SOUTHWEST, SONOMA (T)          5/16     12:30AM          ESPN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (?)                5/16     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, SEARS POINT (L)          5/16     3:00PM           ESPN
IMSA, NEW ORLEANS (?)                 5/16     (Event canceled)
ASA, NASHVILLE MOTOR RACEWAY(L)       5/16     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 2ND DAY (L)  5/16     6:00PM        ESPN,TSN
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE(?)  5/22     TBA              TNN
SpeedWeek                             5/22     10:30-11:00PM    ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 3RD DAY (L)  5/22     5:00PM        ESPN,TSN
FORMULA 1, MONTE CARLO, MONACO (?)    5/23     9:20AM           TSN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (L)  5/23     4:00PM           ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (T)  5/24     12:00AM          TSN
BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (?)               5/29     TBA              TBA
SpeedWeek                             5/29     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
USAC MIDGETS, VENTURA (L)             5/30     12:00AM          ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS 500 (L)                  5/30    11:00AM-3:30PM  ABC,CTV
WINSTON CUP, WORLD 600, CHARLOTTE(L)  5/30     4:30PM           TBS
IMSA GTP, LIME ROCK (L)               5/31     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (?)                   6/5      TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                6/6      12:00PM          TNN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (L)                6/6      1:00-3:00PM      ABC
SCCA TRANS-AM, COLUMBUS (T)           6/6      1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (SD)               6/6     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (T)                6/7      2:30AM           TSN
ARCA, POCONO (L)                      6/12     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, MYRTLE BEACH (?)            6/12     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               6/13     12:30PM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (L)       6/13     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
IMSA, MID-OHIO (?)                    6/13     TBA              TBA
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (L)               6/13     3:00-5:30PM    ABC,TSN
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (SD)              6/13    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (T)       6/14     12:00-2:00AM     ESPN
IHRA SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)    6/19     1:30PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/19     8:00PM           ESPN
LEMANS, START (?)                     6/19     TBA              TBA
LEMANS, FINISH (?)                    6/20     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             6/20     12:00PM          CBS
BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (?)            6/26     TBA              TBA
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/26     8:00PM           ESPN
IMSA, WATKINS GLEN (?)                6/27     TBA              TBA
ASA, BRAINERD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY(L)6/27     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (L)                 6/27     4:00-6:30PM      ESPN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27     9:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, DETROIT (T)            6/28     1:00AM           ESPN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out SRC. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for 
info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If 
interested, please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 13:14:23 1993
Subject: Corvair
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5201
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 The Corvair had a swing axle type rear and its real problem was that if
you really made the tires bite the arm liked to plant, jack and tuck
under. Not good form. A decent sway bar would've fixed this right off,
but the GM brass decided $15 extra per car wasn't worth it. The last two
or so model years had the sway bar standard, but by then GM's lack of
investment had paid off big time. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 13:20:50 1993
Subject: Re: Pistons
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5202
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Have you tried checking PAW or one of the other mail order outfits for 
your particular piston?  They might offer it cheaper than JBA.  Also
what about piston offerings from Sealed Power?  Do they offer anything
which would be the quality match for your piston at a lower price?Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 16:03:40 1993
Subject: GM/Olds questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5203
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have some GM-related questions that I am seeking answers for,
to direct some future projects.

_Olds_403_engine_(1977-79)_
The consensus seems to be that this is a 350-type block, with 350
heads, 350 crank, and extremely large pistons.  1977 seems to be
the year of choice because of better bearing webs (?).  
Does anybody have any "real-world" driving experience with a
stock or slightly modified 403?  
How does it compare to a similar year 350?  (I have driven/owned
several stock/slightly modified Olds 350's)
How do you identify a 403 vs. 350 vs. 307?  (physical
charcteristics, block casting numbers, etc.)(A local junk yard
says they have a '77 403.  Also, the 350 in my wagon [diesel-
conversion by a previous owner] is the most powerful stock 350 I
have owned and has some slight differences than other 350's [may
be differences of year/model of unknown donor car])


_GM_auto_trans_
Someone posted the parasitic losses for the THM400 (~65 hp) and
the THM350 (~35 hp); does anyone know the losses for the THM200R4
and the THM700R4?
The THM700R4 only comes in the Chevy bolt pattern and requires an
adapter for BOP patterns.  There was some concern over using a
typical adapter plate because of the spacing/engagement of the
torque converter to the trans.  What is the best way to use a
THM700R4 with a BOP engine (at a reasonable cost)?

The THM200R4 is built-up to handle considerable loads in the
Buick GNs and also comes in a BOP (universal?) pattern.  As-in
the THM700R4's, are there certain ones (from certain cars) to
get/avoid?  
Art Carr seems to be the shop of choice to modify the trans for
higher output engines.  Does anyone know the torque rating of the
stock and Art Carr modifed trans?  Are these mods
difficult/expensive/require_custom_parts such that a decent local
trans shop could not do a similar upgrade to a THM200R4?  (I am
looking for about 50K miles of relatively trouble free driving
[some hot-rodding, mainly cruising] with an engine putting out
350 - 400 ft-lbs torque, not too radical of rear-end gear [mid
3.00's?], and about 3800 lbs of car.)


Olds_442_(late_model)_
I have seen a few late model 442's (about 1983-5).  Are these
"factory" 442's or just Cutlasses with decals that owners/dealers
slapped on?  If the factory "made" them, what years were they
available and what's the drive train? (307 with TBI and "dual"
exhaust ala Hurst Olds, a THM200R4 trans, posi rear-end?)

Thanks for any help.

----------
Posted by: emory!LIMS01.LERC.NASA.GOV!TPCLIFF
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 16:37:00 1993
Subject: Suspension Geometry Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5204
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I'm getting closer to having the disk brakes on my '64 Nova.  I have
the ball joints I plan to use, (Moog K719) which have a screw-in base,
and have ordered a ball joint sleeve that can be welded into the lower
control arm.  This will give me some room to work with, as far as the
height of the ball joint.

Question is, will changing the height (position) of the ball joint
affect the height of the car?  I know that on a car which has the
spring between the upper and lower control arms, raising the position
of the lower ball joint will lower the car.  But is true when the
spring sits on top of the upper control arm?

Oh, If anyone needs/wants some info on ball joints or adapter sleeves,
let me know.


Kevin

----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 16:43:32 1993
Subject: Corvairs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5205
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>In fact, I think the Corvair actually made into the 10 worst-designed
>cars ever built in a book on automotive lemons.  I can't remember
>the name of the book (perhaps Automotive Lemons) but I was flipping
>through the pages in a bookstore and noticed the Corvair in it.  The
>author noted that it had really nasty rear-end behaviour.  I'm not
>sure but I think they had equiped it with a swing-axle or something equally
>assinine.
>Anyhow, John, that was no ordinary poor-handling car you were driving.
>It was a world-class lemon, according to the author of that book.
>Cheers,
>Andy
>PS: What *is* the correct title of the book?
>[Don't know about the book.  Wouldn't have been authored by Nader would
>it?  My co-worker's car had maybe 500 extra pounds hung off the back
>so "funny" handling was to be expected.

>I'm actually quite fond of the Corvair.  The turbo Spyders were 
>fairly fast and the handling was superior to most of the rest of the 
>market at the time.  It certainly handled as well as one of the cult 
>cars of era, the Porche 912.  

[ ... ]

	Aw, Jeez.  Let's bash the Corvair, OK?  Here was a lightweight
(relatively) sedan/coupe vehicle produced with *OH MY GOODNESS* oversteer
capabilities.  The swing-axle rear in the 'Vair is not inherently evil.
Unforgiving, maybe, but not evil.  Toe changes in the rear axle as the
car rolls on its longitudinal axis in a curve made the thing handle great
(along with a competent front end) with the exception of Trailing Throttle
Oversteer, or 911 disease for you Porsche folks :).  TTO is the abrupt spin
you get into when you snap off the throttle in the middle of a curve near
the limit of adhesion.  BMW 2002s and 320is do it, too, because of their
semi-trailing arm rear suspensions.  I KNOW, I've done it.  Imagine the 
excitement when your $50,000 911 Turbo (older ones, new ones are more
forgiving) drags you backwards into the guardrail!!!  Fun and thrills for
the whole family.  
	The Corvair handled differently from any other mass-produced car
Detroit made at the time.  Every car made in that time period was designed
to understeer off the road.  Understeer is more predictable and generally,
people feel "safer" plowing straight off the road at thirty-five in their
big Chebbie than spinning out at forty in their Corvair *because they went
AAAAUGH I'm SPEEDING TOO FAST and lifted off the gas*.  People start learning
how do REALLY drive fast on twisty roads and they'd cure that problem.  Is
a swing-axle rear an incompetent system?  Ask me again at the next Firehawk
or Showroom Stock race when the M3 outcorners everybody (who just passed them
on the straightaway, hey, 5.0 beats 2.3 any day :).  Or at the SCCA Impoved
Touring races, where ITA 2002tii's and ITB 2002's (and the Japanese clone
Datsun 510's) run near the front of the pack.  

	*Just 'cause you don't know how to make it right doesn't mean it's 
bad.* Remember that next time your computer blows up.:)
	I'm not flaming you, Andy, just pointing out what Me Old Man has
passed on (I'm 22, and your youngest 'Vair is, what? 24?).

		Happy motoring,

			Thi VanAusdal

\-------------------------------------------------/
| My lady's motto: "If he ain't broke,  go back   |
|                   to the mall."                 |
/-------------------------------------------------\  	USC Gamecocks,
				                     You can't lick our 'Cocks.
						     Unless you ask nice.
Opinions are mine, and so are the typso. 
----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 16:54:45 1993
Subject: Information and Suggestions sought for Vette Project
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5206
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hello
I posted the following to "VetteNet" and got zero responses.  Maybe
someone here can help.  Please E-mail responses.  Thanks
nasa@suns.chinalake.navy.mil


Hi

I've been planning stage of building a car for several years.  I'm getting
to a realistic vehicle now.  Down from the 600hp, <3200lb, mid-engined
ideal.  It is to be a 30,000 mile a year, high-speed, highway-canyon-
running machine.  Due to lack of facilities, time, money and fabrication
experience it's going to have to be close to a "bolt-in/bolt-on".  The
current configuration is based on a late model Vette with, probably, a
BB engine.  Oh yeah, this will of course be "for non-highway use" since
there is no legal way to do this otherwise.  I still have a lot of questions
and would appreciate input.  I have big questions on the following:

Purchasing the base vehicle.  Off the top it would seem that a 84 or 85
Vette would be the place to start.  The cost is minimal and it seems to have
most of the necessary pieces.  Are there other features available on other
year models or through Chevy that would be important to consider? 

What is a good source of engineering data that covers the late model Vette? 
Details and differences on suspension, drivetrain etc.

What is a good source of chassis preparation and simular information on that
would help improve and "bulletproof"?  I have a 5th (?) edition 
"Chevy Power" handbook that has a Corvette chassis prep section the
cover of which shows a late model Vette but the text doesn't mention
anything about late model Vettes.  Does Chevy put publish or endorse
another source on "race" prepping Vettes?

Any idea where I can get good info on putting a BB in a late model?  I know
GM had at least one running around but have never heard of any others.  The
BB is about 3 inches longer (depends on waterpump) than the SB and 
3-4 inches wider depending on where it's measured. It doesn't seem that
would be a problem.

The Engine.  It has to produce a solid 500hp but still pull smoothly across
the powerband and be efficient.  It appears that a BB with one of the
Bowtie designs aluminum heads would be the best way to get this.
(Although the cost estimate has gone up since Chevy quit selling the
LS-6s for <$2700  :-(  )  With alum. heads & waterpump the BB and the
SB seem to weigh in about the same.  A large displacement ($$$) SB with the
new (finally!)  canted valve Bowtie heads is another possiblity.  Those
heads are $expensive though and I have no idea how well they would
work on the street.

Transmission.  For economy it is necessary to have at least one good
overdrive ratio.  A 6 speed manual would be fun but the cost of one
of the new (and marginally rated) ROD 6 speeds + clutch etc would
add at least $3500.  More with a dual disk clutch.  A beefed 700-R4
with lockup TC might work.  I've read of such units (possibly without
the lockup TC) being used in some very healthy cars.  It would
cushion the diff but would it really hold up?  Other possibilites
include the "DN" 5 speed but the ratio's are way wrong.  Other?

Cooling.  What exactly is the difference between the stock water/oil cooling
and the optional HD?

That should be more than enough for now.  I'd appreciate hearing
all thoughs and suggestions.  
Oh Yeah.  Anyone know where I can legally get
a ZR-1 less engine and transmission at a very good price :-)

Thanks

cat

-- 

----------
Posted by: emory!suns.chinalake.navy.mil!nasa (Chris Adam Thomas)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 17:01:01 1993
Subject: Quadrajet Carb Problems
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5207
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I hope you guys can help me with this problem.  I have a '71 Monte Carlo,
>350-4, 270 hp., all original don't ya know.  Anyway, when I first take the car
>out it hesitates, like it's misfiring. And after the car has warmed up, it runs
>like new again.  To remedy the problem, I changed the points (the originals)
>and set the dwell angle to factory specs.  The car just starts quicker now, and
>still hesitates upon startup.  If the gas is floored right away, it back-fires
>through the Carb. and sprays gas everywhere.  So I try not to do that anymore.

I assume this is a Quadrajet carb?  Sounds to me like some sort of
choke problem.  Is your choke unloader working (the choke should close
completely before startup, then open up just a tiny bit after the
engine starts).

Also, when the engine is cold, there are some gizmos that keep the
secondaries from opening.  There's a little metal hook on top of the
secondary air valves that keeps the doors closed until the choke opens
fully.  I believe there's also a vacuum diaphram that helps to keep
these doors closed until warm up (maybe only on Olds engines?).  Might
check that to see if it holds vacuum.

--
Joseph P. Cernada	AIT, Inc.
914/347-6860		50 Executive Blvd.
cernada@ait.com		Elmsford, New York 10523

----------
Posted by: emory!shadow.ait.com!cernada (Joseph P. Cernada)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 17:07:41 1993
Subject: bounced mail from wheeltowheel
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5208
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 I tried joining the wheel-to-wheel mailing list a couple of times, but
I never got any mail from it.  This morning I got a piece and tried a
reply, but it bounced.  What the heck, I'll post it here.  

 The original poster was having troubles with loss of oil pressure in
his dry-sumped MGB, had already detonated one motor, and evidently has
an attitude problem.


-> Car Products pump easily produced 80 psi at idle last year, with cold
-> oil.  This year, I only saw 30 at idle, and up to seventy at higher
-> rpm.  My main concern was that I had blown a chunk of the casting out
-> and was dumping oil through that opening.  I was later assured that a
-> looser tolerance, cross-drilled crank could easily use about 4 times
-> as much oil as a stock set up.  Tearing apart the bottom end

 If you have indeed increased the clearances, then that's true.  The
 reason for opening clearances is to allow more oil to pass through
 the bearing for cooling.  For reasons I won't go into now I don't
 particularly care for the idea, but it's common practice.
 Crossdrilling doesn't usually make a whole lot of difference unless
 your volume was barely adequate to begin with; chances are you're
 full-up on volume since you're using a pump made for a loose V8.

[We had a rep from ACL Bearings speak at our last SAE section meeting.
ACL is more commonly recognized as Repco before the management buyout.
The talk was in the context of racing bearings.  He presented a graphic
that showed oil flow going up as large power of clearances above 0.0015.
He stated unequivocally that added clearances for "cooling" does
not achieve that effect and instead adds to the heat load of
the oil via extra pumping heating among other things.  To support the 
point he handed out the spec sheet and fitment guide for the bearings
for the Chevy/Iillmore Indy engine.  These bearings are fitted
to the crank with a clearance of 0.0015 +- 0.00015".  This advice 
pretty much jivves with my experiences.  I've never resorted to 
a high volume oil pump on any engine not getting an aftermarket 
turbocharger and have never seen oil-failure-induced failures.  JGD]

-> My problem is that I starve the pressure side of my oil system at
-> prolonged high rpms.  Or I'm not scavenging effectively.

 In your long and detailed message, you forgot entirely to mention
 what sort of oil tank/swirl pot/air separator you're using.  If you
 have too fine of a screen in the tank it could cause the symptoms
 you're talking about.


-> instead of sucking oil from the sump, it's now sucking oil and air.

 That's what it's supposed to do.  Your scavenge pump volume is
 several times the pressure pump volume for this very purpose.  The
 remote tank should be handling de-aeration.


-> One of my main concerns is that the the valve cover and lifter area
-> is packing up with oil, not draining into the pan fast enough to be

 You have the oil fill on the valve cover?  Get an extra oil cap and
 drill a hole through it (or use the PCV hole if there is one) and run
 a small hose to a vented plastic bottle.  If it fills with oil you
 have a drainback problem, otherwise, you are probably OK.


-> roughly $100 of RedLine 40 weight oil on the track and a painfully

 How much oil does this system hold?  Unless it's awfully expensive,
 you have enough oil to fill the engine until it runs out the top and
 plenty left over.  Let's see, that'd be a little over 17 GALLONS of
 Valvoline Racing at $1.45/quart.


-> I'm not looking for more, unverifiable, gut level feeligns on how to
-> fix this problem.  If you really can think of a problem, let me know.

 I realize you may be a little irritated by your car problem, but if you
 want a sure fix, feel free to trailer the car over here and I'll be
 happy to charge my usual rates for diagnosis and repair.  Exactly
 what sort of help do you expect from a bunch of people who've never
 even SEEN your car?
                            
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 17:13:01 1993
Subject: RE: Head porting - dynamic flow
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5209
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [I can't spell it either :-) Schliren is close enough.  Problem is
-> how would you get the light across the flow unless you do a plastic
-> replica of the port.  Schliren photography uses polarized light in
-> transmission mode and depends on the turbulence to rotate the
-> polarization.  JGD]

 Might not be too bad, kemosabe.  If I can ever track down that place
that sells port foam so I can make some plugs, I'm planning to cast up
some "heads" (just a pair of ports and a chamber) from paraffin so I can
"port" them with a putty knife.  It would be a bit of work to do it
right, but I could make dozens of 'em to test my porting ideas.  It'd
sure save a lot of hours with the die grinder and real heads.  

 If I could spray some release compound on the foam core, then dip it in
liquid acrylic (the stuff they use to make spider paperweights) a few
times, I'd have a clear plastic replica of the port.  Dunno if it'd be
opically correct enough for polarized light, but we could give it a
shot.  If nothing else, you could cut windows in it.
             
[Hmmm, paraffin heads.  what an idea!  I love it.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 17:20:13 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5210
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> It was showpieced in Nutball Nader's "Unsafe at Any Speed."  Basically,
>he proved that if you did weird things with the tire pressure and
>cranked the steering wheel fast enough left to right, while going about
>70mph, you could get the car to roll over.  Alas, that's not nearly as
>nasty as it sounds.  Chrysler K-cars will do it with the greatest of
>ease, and it's possible with the second-generation Camaro.  All proof
>that you can make things foolproof, but not damned-fool proof.

It wasn't Nader's book.  I promise to get the title of the bokk 
next time I go to the bookstore.  As I remember, it wasn't so 
much a consumer protection book as a tribute to some of the strangest
cars ever built, safety-be-damned.  More a book for collectors than 
for activists.

Cheers,

Andy

----------
Posted by: emory!lessfilling.rutgers.edu!froncio (Andy Froncioni)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 17:25:55 1993
Subject: Re: Corvairs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5211
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Andy writes:
"In fact, I think the Corvair actually made into the 10 worst-designed
cars ever built in a book on automotive lemons.  I can't remember
the name of the book (perhaps Automotive Lemons) but I was flipping
through the pages in a bookstore and noticed the Corvair in it.  The
author noted that it had really nasty rear-end behaviour.  I'm not
sure but I think they had equiped it with a swing-axle or something equally
assinine."

The early Corvairs did have swing axles.  I always thought that the
original Corvair designers must have copied most of the bad features
of the Volkswagen bug.

In later years (starting in 1965 if I remember correctly) they got
rid of the swing axles and put a decent suspension on the rear.
Unfortunately, by this time the car had a reputation and Nader was
very active in condemning it.  By 1969 the sales were so bad that
GM dropped the car even though the offensive problems had been
fixed.  It goes to show that the public perception, not reality,
is what makes or breaks a product.

Corvairs of any vintage did handle well.  The major problem was
what happened when you reached and surpassed its ability to grip
the road.  Most drivers aren't good enough to cope with the abrupt
loss of traction, nor do they recognize when they are about to
reach the limit of the car.  A bad combo.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 18:28:03 1993
Subject: RE: Metal Finishing Recipes, for anodization etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5212
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I used to have a really informative book on metal 
finishing.
It had recipes for anodizing, plating, irriditing and 
many other techniques....

If anyone has seen or hear of this book please post it. 
 Also, does anyone know if its possible to galvanize 
(spelling?) sheet metal at home?  Is it pratical to 
prevent rust?

Any info would help.

Thanks
Dirk

Wish this E-Mail had a spell checker! :{

 



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 18:32:06 1993
Subject: Re:  Information and Suggestions sought for Vette Project
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5213
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


For the most part only the engines and transmissions have changed in the 
late model vettes.  I would agree with you in looking for an 84 or 85.  I 
would also suggest looking for the Z51 suspension package if you want 
the ultimate in factory handling.  It's a bit rough on the backsides though.

----------
Posted by: Keith Kucera 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 23:16:51 1993
Subject: RE: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5214
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I hope you guys can help me with this problem.  I have 
>a '71 Monte Carlo,
>350-4, 270 hp., all original don't ya know.  Anyway, 
>when I first take the car
>out it hesitates, like it's misfiring. And after the 
>car has warmed up, it runs
>like new again.

Misss fires like the one you described are normally due 
to a lean mixture or inadaquate timing.

More than likely its either a missadjusted choke / 
choke unloader or the little tab that's supposed to 
keep the secondaries from opening when the engine is 
cold.

Try looking for differences between hot and cold.  
There are various systems designed for cold running.  I 
don't know specifically whats required for your year.  
But the cold start / run ssequence goes something like 
this:
	The choke should bbbe set according to specs.  
With the engine cold a quick pump of the gas should 
close the choke and put the carb on the fast idle cam.  
The choke opening can be found in most manuals. Use a 
drill of the proper size to check.  The secondaries 
should not be able to open.  If you open the throtle 
all the way you should be able to feel the extra spring 
pressure.
	The moment the car starts the vacumm operated 
choke unloader should open the choke approximately half 
way.  The proper amount I always find by trial and 
error.  If the car blowss black smoke and runss rough 
but doessn't necessarily die its to rich adjust it to 
open more.  If the car stumbles and can't be put in 
gear you might bbe running to lean.  On my 78 pontiac 
there is a valve that keeps the distributer at full 
vacumm advance until the water temp reaches a 
predetermined point.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 23:21:47 1993
Subject: Re: GM/Olds questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5215
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Someone wrote:
 
> _GM_auto_trans_
> Someone posted the parasitic losses for the THM400 (~65 hp) and
> the THM350 (~35 hp); does anyone know the losses for the THM200R4
> and the THM700R4?

These transmissions don't consume power as the above sentence
suggests.  Those "losses" are the power needed to accelerate
the transmission (to overcome its angular momentum) at some
unspecified  d RPM / dt.  I don't put much stock in such numbers.

The actual transmission losses are probaly about 3 HP plus about
2 percent of the power input to it.  There can be additional losses
in the torque converter.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)

----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May  4 23:26:19 1993
Subject: Re: Corvair comments
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5216
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>
>Then there was this:
>
>|> In reply to John, well well well, as I seem to recal, that was the death
>|> trapp mobile, at speeds of over 85 , the car was basically uncontrolable,
>|> there wasn't enough weight to keep it on the ground.. 
>|> *grin*
>
This was a Karmann Ghia with a 409 transplanted into it.
This was a deathtrapp car.
It wanted to become airborne at about 80-90 mph!

not a Corvair...

ps.  anyone know where i can get my hands on a corvair engine and tansaxle
to bastardise into my bug?  (actually im just kidding...tho this was popular
aat one time i hear)

John


----------
Posted by: John Wilentz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May  5 10:38:42 1993
Subject: GM/Olds questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5217
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> _Olds_403_engine_(1977-79)_
-> The consensus seems to be that this is a 350-type block, with 350
-> heads, 350 crank, and extremely large pistons.  1977 seems to be the
-> year of choice because of better bearing webs (?).

 Yes.  The '77 has solid webs.  The '78-'81 have skeletonized main webs
and other weight-saving things.  The solid webs are stronger, but nobody
seems to know where the limits of the skeleton webs are.  Or if they do,
they aren't talking.


-> How does it compare to a similar year 350?  (I have driven/owned

 It's a 350, bored all the way out to 403.  3.39 stroke, 4.38 bore.
That makes the 403 one of the most radically oversquare engines Detroit
ever made.


-> How do you identify a 403 vs. 350 vs. 307?

 Olds made it very easy.  Down on the side of the block, under the
exhaust manifold, they usually case "350", "403", or whatever.  Most, if
not all, 403s came in Pontiac Firebirds and Trans Ams.


-> The THM700R4 only comes in the Chevy bolt pattern and requires an
-> adapter for BOP patterns.  There was some concern over using a
-> typical adapter plate because of the spacing/engagement of the
-> torque converter to the trans.  What is the best way to use a
-> THM700R4 with a BOP engine (at a reasonable cost)?

 I have since got some more information on this from my friend Tommy
Wilson, who's a local mechanic.  His mother-in-law happens to own an '85
Olds with the 350 OLDS motor and the 700R4.  GM made at least that one
700 in corporate pattern.    Since Pontiac and Buick V8s bit the
dust long ago, anything you find will probably be from an Olds.  Another
friend has an '84 with the 307 Olds, but it has the 200-4R, not a 700.

 As far as the spacing problem, if you're worried about the convertor
engaging the splines, my recommendation would be to have a shop machine
some 1/4 inch thick spacer washers to put between the convertor and
flexplate.


-> I have seen a few late model 442's (about 1983-5).  Are these
-> "factory" 442's or just Cutlasses with decals that owners/dealers
-> slapped on?

 I never could spot anything different about the 442s; they look like
plain old Olds with decals to me.  If anyone knows different, I'd be
interested in knowing what to look for too.
                                                                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May  5 10:44:09 1993
Subject: Suspension Geometry Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5218
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Question is, will changing the height (position) of the ball joint
-> affect the height of the car?

 In your case, moving the lower ball joint around won't affect the ride
height at all - it's determined by the upper joint, A-arm, and the
spring.  Moving the joint up and down WILL change the "instant center"
and roll geometry though.  Unfortunately, it's pretty hard to actually
measure the geometry you have, so you can't easily tell if moving the
joint would do any good or not.  


-> Oh, If anyone needs/wants some info on ball joints or adapter
-> sleeves, let me know.

 Please!
                                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May  5 10:49:45 1993
Subject: Information and Suggestions sought for Vette Project
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5219
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Any idea where I can get good info on putting a BB in a late model?
-> I know GM had at least one running around but have never heard of any
-> others.  The BB is about 3 inches longer (depends on waterpump) than
-> the SB and 3-4 inches wider depending on where it's measured.

 Greenwood and Lingenfelter both sell big block conversions.  If I
remember right, the Lingenfelter even has official CARB Smog Nazi
certification.

 As for fitting it in... Jay and I have spent hours with the hood up on
his '90, staring.  The valve covers of the 350 practically rub the
firewall.  The front pulley cames damned close to the power rack.  The
sides are pretty darned tight too!

 The options are:  cut the fiberglass firewall out and move the engine
back, with the joy of rebuilding half the innards under the dash, plus
the firewall is a *structural* part of the 'vette chassis, plus
fabricating new pedals... and there's the problem of the shifter not
matching up with the hole any more, and the rest of the stuff that's
now the wrong length... OR cut away the front crossmember, move it and
the rack forward for clearance, and live with bump steer problems.

 There is a third option.  We haven't actually measured yet, but we've
wondered if we could ditch the thick balancer and big pulley and run a
thin balancer and a custom pulley flat against it, with a narrow
serpentine belt.  That'd require custom pulleys and bracketry everywhere
else, but that's easy lathe and welder work, not carving on the chassis.
For that matter, we could machine an outer ring from mild steel, then
cut the proper grooves for the belt on the balancer itself, like many
six cylinder engines do.  This would require appropriately sized
accessory pulleys, though.
                                                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May  5 10:55:05 1993
Subject: Information and Suggestions sought for Vette Project
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5220
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Any idea where I can get good info on putting a BB in a late model?

 I just ran over to Tommy's.  The 396 on his engine stand is exactly 30"
from the bellhousing face to the outside of the bottom pulley.  The
distance from the outer pulley to the washer on the end of the crank is
3-1/4".  That means 26-3/4" is as short as you could go.
                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May  5 11:00:05 1993
Subject: Re: Head porting - dynamic flow
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5221
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Dave Williams writes:

> Is there any way to use... uh... dang, can't remember the name - the
>method they use to photograph pressure waves in wind tunnels.  Schliren
>Effect?  Laser interferometry?  Voodoo?

>[I can't spell it either :-) Schliren is close enough.  Problem is
>how would you get the light across the flow unless you do a plastic 
>replica of the port.  Schliren photography uses polarized light
>in transmission mode and depends on the turbulence to rotate the 
>polarization.  JGD]

It's "schlieren" photography; my dictionary says the word is German for
"ulcers", and in an aerodynamic context it refers to regions of different
density from the bulk.  My understanding is that the different densities
(whence refractive indices) of the schlieren causes them to act as very
weak lenses which will disperse or concentrate portions of a shaft of light
passing through the bulk medium, thereby causing them to show up as bright
and dark regions when you focus the light on a screen.  (I don't think
polarized or monochromatic light is required.)  Anyway, you should be able
to do the clear-plastic-model trick, but you'd have a big "background" imposed
on the signal inasmuch as the port model itself would act as a (very weird)
lens.  I don't know if the problem is sufficiently linear that digital image
processing would let you subtract that background out directly.

Speaking of digital equipment, didn't I see a brief article in one of the
car mags a couple of months back about micromachined mass airflow sensors?
That is, microscopic silicon devices that act like the (macroscopic) hot wire
in your fuel-injected car?  The idea was that these things were small enough
that you could "seed" the walls of the port with enough of them to get a
good idea of flow (along the walls, anyway) without taking up enough space to
disturb that flow significantly.  Anyone heard any more about this?

--Mark Looper
"Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"

----------
Posted by: emory!cco.caltech.edu!looper (Mark D. Looper)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May  5 11:10:57 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5222
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> and set the dwell angle to factory specs.  The car just starts quicker now, and
> still hesitates upon startup.  If the gas is floored right away, it back-fires
> through the Carb. and sprays gas everywhere.  So I try not to do that anymore.

Two ideas...  first, make sure your vacuum advance is connected to ported
vacuum, not manifold vacuum.

But assuming you have a Quadrajet, the problem is most likely the air valve
flying open to quickly, causing a major leanout which will cause intake
backfiring.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May  5 11:16:21 1993
Subject: Re: Information and Suggestions sought for Vette Project
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5223
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have an article in a vette mag at home about a chevy special projects 
engineer putting a 454 boat motor in a 84late model vette. I also believe
that a kit is available thru some branch of GM to do this so you dont have
to do any fabrication of pieces. This 454 had FI on it just like the 350,
and was as fast as the ZR1. 
  I will get the info for you but I am out of town on business and wont be
back untill May 23. I will let you know then what I manage to dig up.
                          Doug Black

----------
Posted by: emory!techops.cray.com!u5423 (Douglas Black)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May  5 11:22:02 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5224
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> It wasn't Nader's book.  I promise to get the title of the bokk next
-> time I go to the bookstore.

 "Unsafe at Any Speed" by Nader et. al. was the first to start the
Corvair bashing.  Then the rest of the wolf pack joined in.
                                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May  5 14:48:52 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5225
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Olds_442_(late_model)_
>I have seen a few late model 442's (about 1983-5).  Are these
>"factory" 442's or just Cutlasses with decals that owners/dealers
>slapped on?  If the factory "made" them, what years were they
>available and what's the drive train? (307 with TBI and "dual"
>exhaust ala Hurst Olds, a THM200R4 trans, posi rear-end?)

I know that they made 442s (factory original) in '79, which is what
I am concerned about... Is the tranny crossmember on the 442 a dual
exhaust one?  What I mean is, does it have two humps in it, or just
the one?  I have a '79 Regal that I converted to duals, and the pipe has
to go around the stock crossmember.  If I could just swap one out of a
442, that would be very nice!  Thanks for your help.

--
                                 - Mike Golden -
                            mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu
                        "Keep honking... I'm reloading."

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May  6 07:36:07 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5226
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Thankx for your advice about the carb. problems.
I'll check out the choke later tonight.

Monty Marty
'71 Monte Carlo
2ss1eberhard@vms.csd.mu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!vms.csd.mu.edu!2SS1EBERHARD
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May  6 07:41:12 1993
Subject: RE: GM Questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5227
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I have found no listing of any 403's past '79.  What cars had the '80
-> and '81.

 Yep.  I was winging it that time, but I went back and checked my
sources - as far as I can tell, you're correct - '79 should be the last
year.
                                                                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May  6 07:46:33 1993
Subject: Re: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5228
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I ran across a '68 Firebird here in town.
428cid .020 over, less than 3000miles on rebuild
4-spd. with aluminum case
new clutch and plate 3.46 Posi
New interior
Power Disc Brakes
Custom exhaust with cutouts
complete '73 Nova suspension
New black paint with really nice Maroon High-lights (really sharp!)

ABSOLUTELY NO RUST!

My friend Pete put it together and now has to sell it to move to Oregon.
asking price is $6250.00
I would be willing to deliver almost anywhere in the country for the 
cost of a rent-a-wreck home, expenses and a maybe a small fee.
***************************************************************
Millam E. Tackitt                        met@naucse.cse.nau.edu

1967 Cougar XR-7 271/289 4spd/CR 4spd
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 3-dueces and an Auto 
1953 3/4 ton Chevy pickumup truck
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 Auto (SPORT console) sold and gone 5-2-93 :(
***************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May  6 07:52:17 1993
Subject: Re: Head porting - dynamic flow
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5229
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Dave Williams writes:
> It's "schlieren" photography; my dictionary says the word is German for
> "ulcers", and in an aerodynamic context it refers to regions of different
> density from the bulk.  My understanding is that the different densities
> (whence refractive indices) of the schlieren causes them to act as very
> weak lenses which will disperse or concentrate portions of a shaft of light
> passing through the bulk medium, thereby causing them to show up as bright
> and dark regions when you focus the light on a screen.  (I don't think
> polarized or monochromatic light is required.)  Anyway, you should be able
> to do the clear-plastic-model trick, but you'd have a big "background" imposed
> on the signal inasmuch as the port model itself would act as a (very weird)
> lens.  I don't know if the problem is sufficiently linear that digital image
> processing would let you subtract that background out directly.

I can confirm (we did it in the Doc Edgerton Strobe Lab) that monochromatic
and polarized light are NOT required. We used this technique to photograph
the shock waves coming off a 22cal bullet slicing a playing card in half.
No focussing required: it's basically a shadow picture. You put the strobe
on one side, the (quite normal, everyday style) print paper on the other side,
shoot the bullet through the middle, and trigger the strobe off of the shock 
wave, using a trigger microphone that is placed at an appropriate distance
back and away such that the trigger hits the strobe just as the bullet is
where you want it. You have to fiddle the strobe intensity such that the
print paper is exposed right to the middle of its dynamic range, so that the
schlieren effect will make the biggest difference to the print darkness.
Note that the result is a "negative" - the bullet shows up as a white outline.

For use on a target consisting of a clear plastic model, you most certainly
do NOT want to used polarized ANYTHING, as most easy-to-use plastics have
the property of differentially rotating different colors of light, with the
result that you would get bands of light & dark on the print that have nothing
to do with either the thickness of the plastic nor the density of the air.
So take off the polarizing filter from the strobe, and use plain old light.

As far as the notion of using digital image processing to subtract out the
plastic from the image, I'd say forget it. Take two images: one without flow,
one with, and just look at them. You'll be able to see where the high density
gradients are (they will be darker) and where they aren't.

Note that since this is a shadow effect (transmitted rather than reflected
light), it does not lend itself to readily available high speed motion picture
equipment such as the Edgerton prism camera. Fortunately, you can simlate it
by performing many cycles, and triggering the strobe at a different point
each cycle. If more details are needed, let me know - I still have the text
book from the course.


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May  6 07:58:54 1993
Subject: Re: GM/Olds questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5230
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> The actual transmission losses are probaly about 3 HP plus about
> 2 percent of the power input to it.  There can be additional losses
> in the torque converter.
 
According to the Banks Dynafact in my truck, locking the TCC made a jump
of 5-8hp at the rear wheels at 60-65 on the highway.  (1991 GMC 2500,
4L60 (700R4) trans, computer lockup disabled (no computer..)).


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May  6 14:34:54 1993
Subject: Archives
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5231
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Sorry to put this to the group but how do I get at the archived
material at ece.rutgers.edu by email ?
Possible or not ?

Steve.

[There are no provisions at ece.rutgers.edu.  I'm posting this to the list
so that someone maybe can suggest an ftp-by-mail server.  If someone 
twists my arm enough, maybe I'll put the archives on my mail server :-)
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!kcbbs.gen.nz!Steve_Baldwin (Steve Baldwin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May  6 14:43:07 1993
Subject: Early Novas (again) 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5232
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hey guys...me again. YAENQ (Yet Another Early Nova Question):

To Kevin Fultz: What spindles are you using for the disc brake swap in your
Nova? How about steering? Are you keeping the Nova steering? Any details on
your swap would be appreciated.

I wanted to put power brakes on my '67. Is the only thing I need to do is put
a power booster on? On mine, the brake lines go right from the master cylinder
to what looks like a "fuel block" which has a wire attached to it. Then the 
lines go to the front and rear wheel cylinders. Any guesses as to what the 
block is? Some kind of proportion valve? Is the wire for the brake warning
light?

Thanks for any help....
Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!mikes (Mike Sheumaker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May  6 15:37:43 1993
Subject: Miniature airflow sensors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5233
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Mark Looper writes:

>...That you could "seed" the walls of the port with enough of them to get a
good idea of flow (along the walls, anyway) without taking up enough space to
disturb that flow significantly.  Anyone hear any more about this?

Yes.  There was an article in the May '93 issue of CAR CRAFT. (p.20)

It's just a basic overview of the new sensor, nothing too technical.

The article is a little too long to type out the whole thing.
So Mark if you can't find the article I could send you a copy.

Martin
'71 Monte Carlo
2ss1eberhard@vms.csd.mu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!vms.csd.mu.edu!2SS1EBERHARD
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 05:41:58 1993
Subject: Re: Canyon Vette
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5234
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




> current configuration is based on a late model Vette with, probably, a
> BB engine.  Oh yeah, this will of course be "for non-highway use" since
> there is no legal way to do this otherwise.
>
> Purchasing the base vehicle.  Off the top it would seem that a 84 or 85
> Vette would be the place to start.  The cost is minimal and it seems to have
> most of the necessary pieces.  Are there other features available on other
> year models or through Chevy that would be important to consider?
>
Selecting a 70-74 Corvette would be a good alternative.  First, you could
legally run a big-block because GM was still dropping them under the hood.
Second, you avoid all the megahassles of rounding up all the accessories
if you can find a a Corvette with a BB already in it.  Third, you can
proabably find a base car for less money.  Which leaves more money
for the Everything Else We Always Underestimate or Forget.
>
> What is a good source of chassis preparation and simular information on that
> would help improve and "bulletproof"?  I have a 5th (?) edition
>
The stock chassis is fine.  I'd rebuild the front end, and replace worn
out springs, shocks, etc.  You might want to add an axle-locating device
to increase traction (e.g. traction bar).  See how the body rolls while
cornering.  Bigger anti-sway bars or a panhard bard should stop excess.
No sense putting in a heavy roll cage if you don't need one.

What needs to be bulletproof is the drivetrain.  See below.
>
> The Engine.  It has to produce a solid 500hp but still pull smoothly across
> the powerband and be efficient.  It appears that a BB with one of the
> Bowtie designs aluminum heads would be the best way to get this.
>
GM BB cubic inches are probably the least expenseive way to produce this
kind of torque up through 6000 rpms.

You can order a crate long-block from RHS (476 CID) which dynos at 500hp
at 5500 rpms and 535 ft/lbs at 4500 rpms for about $3500.  If you want
to do it yourself, follow John Lingenfelter's advice and use the oval
port heads for the street/canyons:  "On the street, it's pounds of
feet and the ovals will deliver."   If you can afford the $2000
for a good set of aluminum heads, get them with the biggest valves
available.
>
> Transmission.  For economy it is necessary to have at least one good
> overdrive ratio.  A 6 speed manual would be fun but the cost of one
> of the new (and marginally rated) ROD 6 speeds + clutch etc would
> add at least $3500.  More with a dual disk clutch.  A beefed 700-R4
> with lockup TC might work.
>
Economic Hot Rod...kind of an oxymoron isn't it?  (grin)

TCI sells tough TH400s and TH700R4s.  The former is much cheaper and is a tough
cookie.  The latter has a 3.07 first gear and a .70 overdrive.  The TH400 will
fit right in.  The TH700R4 will require some fitting.  The rear end should be
the good ole 12-bolt posi.  Connect with a balanced driveshaft done by a shop
with a good rep.  Usually one that does semi-truck shafts can make a good one.
You don't piss off teamsters with shoddy work! (grin)
>
> Cooling.  What exactly is the difference between the stock water/oil cooling
> and the optional HD?
>
I think.....
HD cooling has a huge radiator and a bigger/better fan.  The HD oiling
may have a better windage tray and an oil cooler - it's hard to beat the
stock oiling system on a GM BB.  You might want to consider a transmission
cooler as well.

BTW, even at 500/535, a two-bolt main block and cast crank will do as long
as you don't dump in a bunch of nitrous!  If you think you may upgrade the
engine with a blower and/or nitrous, I would consider a four-bolt and a
forged crank.  Spring for some forged pistons.  The most important thing
is precision machining and assembly (i.e. blueprinting and balancing).
You can spend a lot of bucks just to watch expensive fireworks.

The porkypine heads are canted to breathe well.  I suggest 2" primary
header pipes and 3" exhaust and tail pipes for an overbored 454.

So, try finding an early seventies BB.  Get together a mighty Rat and
drop it in with a TH400 or TH700.  Rebuild worn suspension and replace
spent accessories.  Add aftermarket intake and exhaust.  Clean up the
interior and exterior to suit.  Blast canyons!

Eric Webb
ewz@nccibm1.rtpnc.epa.gov

----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 14:46:19 1993
Subject: AC & Heater efficiency
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5235
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Someone posted a reply a while back about how the heater core
can interfere with the AC system efficiency.  The poster stated
that many cars are equipt with a vacumm operated valve that shuts
off the hot water to the heater core when the heater control is off.

Of course, my 77 TA has no valve in the heater core supply hoses so
a healthy supply of 200 degree water flows through the heater core
during hot summer weather.  The heater box relies on a damper door
to route air through the AC evaporator and then to the passenger
compartment.  Meanwhile the core is radiating its heat to the box
assembly and interior dash area.  All of this is on the passenger
side of the firewall so it adds to the heat load the AC must cope with.

My idea is to install one of those vacumm operated valves in the 
supply hose, but I am wondering if the added flow through the core
and back into the rear of the block is required.  Do Pontiac SB 400's
depend on the heater hoses for additional circulation?

How about some sort of three way valve to bipass the core and directly
back into the block?

Ok Pontiac guru's

what do you think.

$0.02

Ericy

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 14:51:27 1993
Subject: Re: Nova Brakes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5236
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




> I wanted to put power brakes on my '67. Is the only thing I need to do is put
> a power booster on? On mine, the brake lines go right from the master cylinder
> to what looks like a "fuel block" which has a wire attached to it. Then the
> lines go to the front and rear wheel cylinders. Any guesses as to what the
> block is? Some kind of proportion valve? Is the wire for the brake warning
> light?
> Mike
>
Mike,
   To power-assist braking, you just need to add a booster unit.  Usually you
buy an integrated master cylinder/booster assembly.  The booster will use
engine vacuum to reduce pedal effort, so make sure you have enough or you'll
need a "vacuum reservoir."

    The junction box below the master cylinder is a pressure warning device.
It contains a piston centered when brake fluid pressure is OK.  If the
pressure drops due to fluid loss at any wheel, the piston moves off center
causing a circuit to complete, and a warning light to go off on the console.

Eric
internet ewz@nccibm1.rtpnc.epa.gov

----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 15:36:48 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-17*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5237
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. I am also starting to receive 
information directly from TNN (The Nashville Network) and am very 
grateful to them for their help. A special thanks to Dan Jones for 
passing along ESPN's racing schedule. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE     TIME(Eastern)  NETWORK

Checkered Flag (IndyCar, Long Beach)  5/7      1:30-2:00PM      ESPN
This Week In NASCAR (T)               5/7      2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Checkered Flag (Talladega)            5/7      5:00-5:30PM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/8      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (Talladega)            5/8      6:30-7:00AM      ESPN
World Of Speed & Beauty (sprint school5/8      9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (fuel injectors)   5/8      10:30-11:00AM    TNN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (?)            5/8      1:00-3:30PM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                     5/8      2:00-2:30PM      DISC
Truckin' USA                          5/8      3:30-4:00PM      TNN
NHRA Today                            5/8      4:00-4:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    5/8      4:30-5:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek '93 (Mitsubishi Galant)     5/8      5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
Indy:A Race For Heroes(Gordon Johncock5/8      5:00-5:30PM      ESPN
Legends Of The Brickyard (1983)       5/8      5:30-6:00PM      ESPN
SAAB PRO, ATLANTA (T)                 5/8      6:00-6:30PM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             5/8      10:30-11:00PM    ESPN
USAC, S.N. THUNDER, VENTURA (L)       5/9      12:00-1:30AM     ESPN
SpeedWeek                             5/9      2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             5/9      3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
SCCA, LONG BEACH (T)                  5/9      3:30-4:30AM      ESPN
Legends Of The Brickyard (1982)       5/9      4:30-5:00AM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (San Marino)           5/9      5:00-5:30AM      ESPN
FORMULA 1, BARCELONA, SPAIN (L)       5/9    7:50AM-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
Truckin' USA                          5/9      9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Cycle World                           5/9      9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Trucks & Tractor Power                5/9      9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Alan Kulwicki)               5/9      10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today                            5/9      10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Motor Sports Hour                     5/9      10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
Inside Winston Cup                    5/9      11:00-11:30AM    TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    5/9     11:30AM-12:00PM   HTS*
RaceDay (L)                           5/9     11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
ASA, THE MILWAUKEE MILE (L)           5/9      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
Legends Of The Brickyard (1992)       5/9      4:00-4:30PM      ESPN
World Of Speed & Beauty (demo. derby) 5/9      4:00-4:30PM      TNN
Winners (Alan Kulwicki)               5/9      4:30-5:00PM      TNN
Road To Indianapolis (race preview)   5/9      4:30-5:30PM      ESPN
SCCA, ROAD ATLANTA (L)                5/9      4:30-6:00PM      HTS*
NHRA Today                            5/9      5:00-5:30PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    5/9      5:30-6:00PM      TNN
Prime Time Motorsports                5/9      6:00-6:30PM      HTS*
Shadetree Mechanic (fuel injectors)   5/9      6:30-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    5/9      7:00-7:05PM      TNN
AMA SUPERCROSS, DAYTONA (T)           5/9      7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           5/9      8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine                    5/9      11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks & Tractor Power                5/9     11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
FORMULA 1, BARCELONA, SPAIN (SD)      5/9     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
Speed Racer                           5/9     11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
SCCA, ROAD ATLANTA (T)                5/10     12:00-1:30AM     HTS*
Truckin' USA                          5/10     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (demo. derby) 5/10     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
INDY LIGHTS, LONG BEACH (T)           5/10     3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/10     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             5/10     1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
Road To Indianapolis (race preview)   5/10     1:30-2:30PM      ESPN
Glory Days                            5/10     2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
This Week On Pit Road                 5/10     5:00-5:30PM      HTS*
Indy:A Race For Heroes (A.J.)         5/11     12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
SAAB PRO, ATLANTA (T)                 5/11     1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/11     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Glory Days                            5/11     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Legends Of The Brickyard (1983)       5/11     4:00-4:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/11     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Mario)        5/11     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Jim Rathmann) 5/11     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
Countdown To Indy (recap of today)    5/11     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/12     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
USAC, S.N. THUNDER, VENTURA (T)       5/12     4:00-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/12     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Countdown To Indy (recap of today)    5/12     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/13     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           5/13     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Cycle World                           5/13     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     5/13     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                5/13     3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
Indy:A Race For Heroes(Gordon Johncock5/13     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
MIDGET WORLD CHALLENGE, PHOENIX (T)   5/13     7:30-8:30PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (Mitsubishi Galant)     5/13     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Cycle World                           5/13     8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     5/13     9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                5/13     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR                   5/13    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
Countdown To Indy (recap of Thursday) 5/14     12:00-12:30AM    HTS*
AMA SUPERCROSS, ATLANTA (T)           5/14     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Cycle World                           5/14     12:30-1:30AM     HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/14     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             5/14     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Motor Sports Hour                     5/14     1:30-2:30AM      HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                5/14     2:30-3:00AM      HTS*
This Week In NASCAR                   5/14     3:00-4:00AM      HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/14     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
This Week In NASCAR                   5/14     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
INDYCAR, FINAL PRE-QUAL. PRACTICE (L) 5/14     3:00-4:00PM      ESPN
Prime Time Motorsports                5/14     7:00-7:30PM      HTS*
Countdown To Indy (recap of today)    5/14     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/15     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
FORMULA 1, BARCELONA, SPAIN (T)       5/15     4:00-6:00AM      ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, POLE DAY(L)  5/15     TBA              TBA
SpeedWeek                             5/15     10:30-11:00PM    ESPN
NASCAR SOUTHWEST, SONOMA (T)          5/16     12:30-2:00AM     ESPN
WINSTON CUP, SEARS POINT (L)          5/16     3:00-6:00PM      ESPN
IMSA, NEW ORLEANS (?)                 5/16     (Event canceled)
ASA, NASHVILLE MOTOR SPEEDWAY(L)      5/16     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 2ND DAY (L)  5/16     6:00PM        ESPN,TSN
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (L)5/16     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE(L)  5/22     7:30-10:30PM     TNN
SpeedWeek                             5/22     10:30-11:00PM    ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 3RD DAY (L)  5/22     5:00PM        ESPN,TSN
FORMULA 1, MONTE CARLO, MONACO (?)    5/23     9:20AM           TSN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (L)                5/23     1:00-3:00PM      TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (L)  5/23     4:00PM           ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (T)  5/24     12:00AM          TSN
BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (?)               5/29     TBA              TBA
SpeedWeek                             5/29     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
USAC MIDGETS, VENTURA (L)             5/30     12:00AM          ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS 500 (L)                  5/30    11:00AM-3:30PM  ABC,CTV
WINSTON CUP, WORLD 600, CHARLOTTE(L)  5/30     4:30PM           TBS
IMSA GTP, LIME ROCK (L)               5/31     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (L)                   6/5      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                6/6      12:00PM          TNN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (L)                6/6      1:00-3:00PM      ABC
SCCA TRANS-AM, COLUMBUS (T)           6/6      1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (SD)               6/6     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (T)                6/7      2:30AM           TSN
ARCA, POCONO (L)                      6/12     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            6/12     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MYRTLE BEACH (L)            6/12     5:00-7:00PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               6/13     12:30PM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (L)       6/13     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
IMSA, MID-OHIO (?)                    6/13     TBA              TBA
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (L)               6/13     3:00-5:30PM    ABC,TSN
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T)6/13     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (SD)              6/13    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (T)       6/14     12:00-2:00AM     ESPN
IHRA SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)    6/19     1:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE (T) 6/19     3:30-5:30PM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/19     8:00PM           ESPN
LEMANS, START (?)                     6/19     TBA              TBA
LEMANS, FINISH (?)                    6/20     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             6/20     12:00PM          CBS
USAC & NASCAR, COPPER WORLD CLASSIC(T)6/20     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
NHRA, WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (T)     6/20     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (L)            6/26     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (T)                6/26     4:00-5:30PM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/26     8:00PM           ESPN
IMSA, WATKINS GLEN (?)                6/27     TBA              TBA
ASA, BRAINERD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY(L)6/27     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (L)                 6/27     4:00-6:30PM      ESPN
NHRA, HEARTLAND GRANDNATIONAL (L)     6/27     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27     9:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, DETROIT (T)            6/28     1:00AM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)              7/3      11:00AM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, PORTLAND (T)           7/3      8:00PM           ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (L)          7/3      9:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (L)                 7/4      7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
BUSCH GN, MILWAUKEE (?)               7/4      TBA              TBA
PIKES PEAK (?)                        7/4     (live coverage unlikely)
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (SD)                7/4     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IHRA NATIONALS, LIECESTER (T)         7/10     5:30PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/10     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SILVERSTONE, ENGLAND (L)   7/11     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
SCCA TRANS-AM, DES MOINES (L)         7/11     12:30PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, NEW HAMPSHIRE (L)        7/11     1:00PM           TNN
INDYCAR, CLEVELAND (L)                7/11     1:30-3:30PM    ABC,TSN
IMSA GTP, ROAD AMERICA (L)            7/11     4:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, CLEV. OR F1, ENGLAND ?(SD)   7/11    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/17     8:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               7/18     12:00PM          TBS
INDYCAR, TORONTO (L) ?                7/18     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
INDYCAR, TORONTO (SD) ?               7/18     4:00-6:00PM      ABC

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out SRC. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for 
info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If 
interested, please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 15:44:34 1993
Subject: monte carlo parts
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5238
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Do any of you know where I can get doors, fenders, etc. that are in good       
condition(no rust or dents) that will fit my '79 Monte Carlo.  My driver's side
door was just trashed so I'm in desperate need of one of those right now.  I've looked at a lot of junkyards, but at least as far as the doors are concerned,  
they're all rusty.  I couldn't find anyone who makes aftermarket body panels 
for it either.  I spent a lot of time getting this car on the road, but if I    can't readily find replacement body panels, I'll almost be forced to make it a  Sunday car.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  BTW, PA and NJ are the     states I'm closest to.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Troy Kratzer  
LAN Administrator
Internet:tkratzer@attmail.com
----------
Posted by: emory!cbnewsf.cb.att.com!tkratzer (troy.d.kratzer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 15:49:53 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5239
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I heard from someone that the whole brake rotor and caliper from a Caprice
would bolt right in to my '79 Regal.  I guess that the Caprice have bigger
rotors and pads.  Is this correct?  Is it worth the effort to do the
change?  Thanks for your help.

--
                                 - Mike Golden -
                            mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu
                        "Keep honking... I'm reloading."

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 15:55:33 1993
Subject: Re: Early Novas (again)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5240
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>
> Hey guys...me again. YAENQ (Yet Another Early Nova Question):
>
> To Kevin Fultz: What spindles are you using for the disc brake swap in your
> Nova? How about steering? Are you keeping the Nova steering? Any details on
> your swap would be appreciated.
>
> I wanted to put power brakes on my '67. Is the only thing I need to do is put
> a power booster on? On mine, the brake lines go right from the master cylinder
> to what looks like a "fuel block" which has a wire attached to it. Then the
> lines go to the front and rear wheel cylinders. Any guesses as to what the
> block is? Some kind of proportion valve? Is the wire for the brake warning
> light?
>
> Thanks for any help....
> Mike
>
>

I picked up some spindles and rotors off of a 78 Cutlass that I think
will work out for me.  I have yet to do an accurate comparison between
these and the stock spindles.  I have measured the distance between
the top and lower ball joint mountings and fount this spindle to be
0.5" taller.  I have yet to measure the position of the spindle and
any wheel offset that may happen.  This isn't the "recommended"
spindle to use, but it was cheap.

I am planning on keeping the steering as is, at least for now.  The
block you mention above is the combination valve.  I think yours has a
proportion valve and a brake warning switch combined.  My Nova has a
single piston master cylinder that "has to go".  I am not sure if I
will use a combination valve, or pick up an adjustable proportioning
valve for mine.

I picked up some rotors and calipers off the rear of a 77 Cadillac the
last time i was at the wrecking yard.  I was getting some other parts,
and since the price was $25 for all you could carry, it didn't cost me
anything.  The calipers have a lever that attaches to the parking
brake cable, which would simplify a rear disk swap.

As soon as I get the ball joint sleeves I ordered, I'll post some
measurements on them and the ball joints I've looked at.

Kevin.

----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 16:00:40 1993
Subject: Banks Dynafact (Was: Re: GM/Olds questions)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5241
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>According to the Banks Dynafact in my truck, locking the TCC made a jump

What's a Banks Dynafact?  If I'm reading this right, it's measuring the
hp while you are driving.  How is that accomplished?

>of 5-8hp at the rear wheels at 60-65 on the highway.  (1991 GMC 2500,
>4L60 (700R4) trans, computer lockup disabled (no computer..)).

-- 
Mark Walker			| My old man always said:
mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu	|	"Too much is just right!"
505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)	| Guess that applies to my preferences
Albuquerque, NM			| in performance cars.

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 16:06:41 1993
Subject: High performance
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5242
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

My wife faxed me this today.  Seems related to high performance :-)

WARNING!

You are looking at a 

HIGH PERFORMANCE WOMAN.

I can go from ZERO to BITCH

in 2.1 seconds.

Caution: Handle with CARE.  The Bitch Switch sticks.

John

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May  7 17:37:02 1993
Subject: Banks Dynafact (Was: Re: GM/Olds questions)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5243
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

   Date: Fri, 7 May 93 15:37 EDT
   From: mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu

   What's a Banks Dynafact?  If I'm reading this right, it's measuring the
   hp while you are driving.  How is that accomplished?

Hmmm.  Seems to me you could get a good idea of driveshaft HP by
measuring the displacement of the transmission and/or motor mounts and
multiplying by the speed.

I've never heard of a Dynafact either, but that's one way you could do
it. 
 -- Chuck Fry, not sure of his horsepower today either

  Chuck Fry  chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov  POB 60772, Palo Alto CA 94306
     Support the Fair Speed Limit Act!  Write your Congresscritter.
 Derate all salespeople's claims by 0.25 to determine true performance.
	     I bear sole responsibility for this claptrap.

----------
Posted by: Chuck Fry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  8 02:40:41 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5244
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Two ideas...  first, make sure your vacuum advance is connected to ported
>vacuum, not manifold vacuum.
>
>But assuming you have a Quadrajet, the problem is most likely the air valve
>flying open to quickly, causing a major leanout which will cause intake
>backfiring.
>
>Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky

Jonathon - I have been wondering about this for a couple of weeks.
           Could you explain what ports the vacuum signal (that's
           turning it on or off, right?).  Also, what determines
           when/why you'd want the vacuum signal to be on or off.
           I'll guess one reason is to prevent too much advance
           while starting the car to avoid stackfire, but I don't
           really understand.  If the vacuum signal to the 
           distributor is ported, (I have a Holley) then why
           must I disconnect it when setting initial advance?

           thanks if you can answer these questions

           Paul 

----------
Posted by: emory!everest.tandem.com!paul (Paul Duffy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  8 03:36:57 1993
Subject: Banks Dynafact (Was: Re: GM/Olds questions)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5245
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Hmmm.  Seems to me you could get a good idea of driveshaft HP by
-> measuring the displacement of the transmission and/or motor mounts
-> and multiplying by the speed.

 You could get a very nice picture of your torque curve by using a
strain guage on a motor mount (or an inline driveshaft sensor) and an
accelerometer.  Alas, it requires a moving vehicle, and preferably
something along the lines of a motorhome or dump truck so you don't just
roast the tires off.  Don't forget your license plate and insurance,
too.

 Heck, as long as the car was on the street it'd probably be fine, but
I'm still looking for a reasonably priced dyno.
                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  8 12:33:06 1993
Subject: Re: Banks Dynafact (Was: Re: GM/Olds questions)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5246
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>    What's a Banks Dynafact?  If I'm reading this right, it's measuring the
>    hp while you are driving.  How is that accomplished?
> 
> Hmmm.  Seems to me you could get a good idea of driveshaft HP by
> measuring the displacement of the transmission and/or motor mounts and
> multiplying by the speed.
> I've never heard of a Dynafact either, but that's one way you could do
> it. 

The Banks Dynafact is an intertial dynamometer.  It's realtime inputs are
vehicle speed sensor and an accelerometer.  It is programed with vehicle
weight, pitch during acceleration, and then coast downs are done from 70 mph
to model aerodynamic drag and 10mph to model frictional losses (wheel
bearings, brake pads, etc).  It outputs MPH, Horsepower, and Acceleration.
I don't know if they are commericially available yet.  We've had ours a
little over two years, and at the time we got it, it was the first one to
ever leave the posession of Gale Banks ENgineering.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  8 12:42:53 1993
Subject: Possessed Coil Wire
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5247
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Yet another MSD question...

Had our Formula-SAE car cranked up tonight in the dark, and
noticed a nice purple glow coming from our Moroso blue-max coil
wire.  I wasn't arcing to anything, just the core glowing bright
enough to be visible in the dark thru the insulation.  It's
being fired by an MSD-7A and mallory promaster coil.  Anyway, is
it unusual to see the coil wire glow when using a 7A, and is it an
indication of a problem with the wire?  The moroso wire is about 800ohms
per foot, and the coil wire is about 5 feet long.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  8 17:37:30 1993
Subject: Street Rod AC
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5248
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hello all,

I'm at the point in building my 1/2T '55 Chevy Stepside to consider the options
available for an AC/Heater unit.  I'm planning on an after-market model as I've
slicked off the firewall for dress/appearance and want something very compact
to fit under the dash.

Question is, I've seen units put out by both "Vintage Air", and "Air-tique".
Does anyone have any experience/preference with either of these vendors, or
do you have any better recommendations.  Finally, what CFM volume should I be
looking for to keep my little fat bod cool?

Any thoughts/ideas appreciated.

Stan Shore

----------
Posted by: emory!ocetca.att.com!sds
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  8 21:03:32 1993
Subject: Interesting Mustang place
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5249
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I was out looking for Knardly parts (68 plymouth fury) today and stumbled 
into a nifty place kinda out in the boonies.  Called the "Mustang Farm"
(404 606 0305) run by a fellow named Lee Mathias, it deals only with
mustangs from 64 to 73 vintage.  There's a little museum attached with a
dozen or so interesting cars and a fairly large boneyard.  This place is
next to a junk yard that specializes only in old cars of all types,
which is how I ran into the place.  Don't know the name of this junk
yard but it is run by a fellow named Dean Lewis and the phone is 404 382
6141.  They are both located about a mile off I-75 in White, Georgia
north of Atlanta.  Both would be useful even if you had to call and
ship.

John

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May  8 21:08:37 1993
Subject: Possessed Coil Wire
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5250
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> per foot, and the coil wire is about 5 feet long.


 Uh, are you trying to send signals to Mars, or what?  Can't you get the
coil any closer to the engine than that?
                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 06:10:33 1993
Subject: O2 sensors, M85, stoichiometry
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5251
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Anyone here ever used a zirconia O2 sensor with M85?
Should stoich still be approx .5v (how bad is the hydrogen
shift with methanol)?  Right now my engine is running like
crap, and won't run at all unless O2 sensor voltage is > .8v.
Could I have somehow damaged the sensor in such a way that it would
be reading high?  I know my voltmeter isn't the problem, since
I get the same numbers from an oscilliscope.  Anyone know the
stoiciometric A/F ratio for M85?  Hydrogen/carbon ratio &
oxygen/carbo ratio?
 
Also, anyone have a suggestion as to how low I can go with the pulse
width @ 40 psi to Rochester 31lb/hr injectors before I start having
problems?

[I have tested a Rochester ball-and-seat type injector on the flowbench.
The dynamic flow starts deviating pretty badly at around 2 ms.  The 
minimum usable (defined as the narrowest pulse that will cause a 
recognizable dollip of fuel to emit while viewed with a strobe light)
is about 1.2 ms.  If you'd like to send me those injectors, I'd be 
happy to run 'em through the bench and see what they'll do.  
24 hour turnaround is possible.  JGD]

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 
----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 06:15:14 1993
Subject: Re: Possessed Coil Wire
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5252
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> -> per foot, and the coil wire is about 5 feet long.
> 
>  Uh, are you trying to send signals to Mars, or what?  Can't you get the
> coil any closer to the engine than that?

If the coil is anywhere near our crank angle sensor or cam sensor 
(flying magnets, not sure of the pickup type, we snagged 'em off
a new GM 2.2l or a Quad4 i think) it royally messes up the signals.
And the only space big enough to fit the coil in the engine compartment
is right next to the cam sensor.  No room for it in the cockpit or side
pods.  Best place we could find for it inside the monocoque was behind
the right rear axle :).

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 13:38:08 1993
Subject: First Crash At Indy
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5253
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



For those of you familiar with the month of May in Indianapolis, the first
full weekend always kicks off with the Mayor's Breakfast. After the 
breakfast is finished, all the patricipants are allowed to drive their street
cars on the track. Usually the public is pretty restricted on how fast they
are allowed to go on the Brickyard, but apparently things got a bit out of
hand this year. Reports of cars drafting at 90 to 100 mph have surfaced. But
the worst is the elderly couple in their new Cadillac who decided to try the
groove near the wall and promptly stuffed the Cadillac into it. Thus stopping
the whole show after half a lap. Just a real idea of how cray things get
around here in May.

Jeff Armfield

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Posted by: emory!ecn.purdue.edu!armfield (Jeffrey S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 13:42:55 1993
Subject: Ford Engine Question.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5254
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have a 1985 Ford Thunderbird I have been working on for a while (the 
first non-GM vehical I've played with) and I have a few questions.   

1.  Will a 351(x) fit into the T-bird without much modification (besides it 
looks like making custom headers)?

2.  Will the 351(x) mate to the C-5 Transmission alread in there?  Also how 
much trouble is it to replace the C-5 with the AMD?

Thanks in advance,

SJRD

----------
Posted by: emory!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!bphdarcy (Sean J. Roc D'Arcy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 15:38:20 1993
Subject: Re: O2 sensors, M85, stoichiometry
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5255
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> [I have tested a Rochester ball-and-seat type injector on the flowbench.
> The dynamic flow starts deviating pretty badly at around 2 ms.  The 
> minimum usable (defined as the narrowest pulse that will cause a 
> recognizable dollip of fuel to emit while viewed with a strobe light)
> is about 1.2 ms.  If you'd like to send me those injectors, I'd be 
> happy to run 'em through the bench and see what they'll do.  
> 24 hour turnaround is possible.  JGD]
 
Hmmm...  that might explain why we haven't been able to get this thing
to run under 4,000 rpm, although our seem to spray a nice little shot
at 1.6ms, sometimes(had cranking injection time set at 1.6, and spun the
engine with the starter).

[What is the duty cycle at WOT?  If it is not the lesser of >90% or 1 ms
closed time, the injectors are too big.  It will therefore be impossible
to get the motor to idle down because the idle mixture would require such
a small open time.  

It IS possible to control the injector in the sub-2 ms range but it is
tedious.  Your ECU must have the capability of non-linear mapping so that
you can move more map points down low and it must have supply voltage
compensation.  The dynamic flow deviates negatively, that is, the delivered
flow is less than indicated, at short times and is repeatable so it works in 
your favor if your ECU can take advantage of it.   What you have to do is
map every .25 ms or so between the minimum interval and about 2 ms.
The minimum interval (the lowest time where any repeatable discharge is 
observed) must be determined experimentally.  It is real easy to do 
with a synchronized strobe light.  The FITFOTO software available from
my server is designed to do just that.  It is designed to fire an injector
and then after a keyboard-settable delay, fire a strobe light.  It is
specifically designed to fire a General Radio Strobotach.

BTW, if your ECU gives you the option, peak-and-hold drive is a big, big
win in situations like this.  Not only does it knock the injector open
faster and close it faster, it is also much less sensitive to supply voltage.
JGD]

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Blowers are great but it'd be damn nice if I could get one
        to last more than a day. (grenaded the Camden vane blower
          for the Nth time)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 15:45:30 1993
Subject: AN in-car HP/torque meter...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5256
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I had an idea for an in-car power meter:

Place a magnetic sensor on the drive shaft near the front, which spins
past a detector. Another sensor and detector is at the other end of the
shaft.  The two signals are synchronized ie:  the time between the two
signals when there is no torque on the drive shaft is noted (a function
of RPM).

Now, this signal will change at a given shaft RPM. in linear relation to
the torque through the drive shaft. An engineering text would provide the
amount of deflection for the shaft for a given torque, or better, the system
could be calibrated one time on a dyno.

Joe

Joe Weinstein   joe@sybase.com   Sybase 1650 65th st.  Emeryville Ca 94608
        					       510-596-3620
[This has been done and commercial sensors are available.  BUT it is not 
as accurate as inertial instruments like the Dynofact simply because the 
inertial measurement neatly factors out wheel spin.  torque is directly
translatable to forward thrust or acceleration.  Think of torque as 
thrust around a circle.  Given the thrust (force) and the weight of the
vehicle, the power (horsepower for example) necessary to generate this 
thrust is a simple physics calculation.  JGD]
COGITO ERGO SPUD  -- "I think therefore a yam"

----------
Posted by: emory!sybase.com!joe (Joseph Weinstein)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 15:55:55 1993
Subject: Stupid Taurus Question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5257
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have an 87 Taurus with the 3.1 V6.  When I remain stopped at traffic
lights the engine idle will sometimes begin to drop to the point of
stalling.  If I catch it and drop it into neutral the idle will fluxuate
for some time.  I've tried cleaning the throttle body and the idle air
thing (cylinder on side of throttle body) with no luck.  Next I thought
I'd try fuel injector cleaner followed by a new fuel filter.  Any
suggestions welcome.

Keith Kucera 
Autocrossers are us.

[This is firmly within the relm of discussing stock vehicles and against
the list's charter so any comments should go via email directly to Keith.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: Keith Kucera 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 16:04:23 1993
Subject: Re: Banks Dynafact (Was: Re: GM/Olds questions)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5258
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


|> The Banks Dynafact is an intertial dynamometer.  It's realtime inputs are
|> vehicle speed sensor and an accelerometer.  It is programed with vehicle
|> weight, pitch during acceleration, and then coast downs are done from 70 mph
|> to model aerodynamic drag and 10mph to model frictional losses (wheel
|> bearings, brake pads, etc).  It outputs MPH, Horsepower, and Acceleration.
|> I don't know if they are commericially available yet.  We've had ours a
|> little over two years, and at the time we got it, it was the first one to
|> ever leave the posession of Gale Banks ENgineering.
|> 
|> --=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 

I spoke with a Banks rep a few months ago and he indicated the dynafact is
targeted for sometime this summer if all goes well.  

Vericom makes a performance computer that measures speed & distance, HP, 
torque, wheel spin, & G force. It can also monitor RPM and time to speed
or distance.  

They have been producing these accelerometers for past 10 years or more.
I have used one for a couple of years and have been very satisfied. The
results are extreemly accurate.

Vericom :

Minnetonka Warehouse Supply, Inc.
Vericom VC2000 Computer Division
6008 Culligan Way
Minnetonka, Minn 55345
612-933-4256  

$0.02

Ericy

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 17:40:54 1993
Subject: Re: Ford Engine Question. 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5259
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Mon, 10 May 93 12:51 EDT
> From:  hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
> 
>
>I have a 1985 Ford Thunderbird I have been working on for a while (the 
>first non-GM vehical I've played with) and I have a few questions.   

Ahhhh....Good Fun.

>1.  Will a 351(x) fit into the T-bird without much modification (besides it 
>looks like making custom headers)?

Well....The biggest problem with the T-bird is its sloping hood.  A 351W
will fit in the engine bay, but it is much too tall to close the hood.
This is even a common problem when people swap the Mustang 5.0L HO into
the T-bird, it is still too tall.  The factory 5.0L option uses a different
intake plenum than the Mustang.

If you decide to do this, you don't have to build custom headers or too
much other stuff.  BBK has done a 351W engine swap for the late model
Mustang, and offer headers and P/S brackets to make it a "bolt in" operation.

>2.  Will the 351(x) mate to the C-5 Transmission alread in there?  Also how 
>much trouble is it to replace the C-5 with the AMD?

No.  The easiest approach is to use the AOD found on the 5.0L.  It will
bolt right up.  Get a double hump crossmember for the tranny so you can
run dual exhaust.  No driveshaft changes.

>Thanks in advance,

You're welcome.  There is a lot of detail I have left out, including swapping
the engine control electronics.  Swapping the electronics on a T-bird is
a real pain in the butt because the engine control wiring is integrated
with the remainder of the wiring harness (unlike the Mustang, where the
engine electronics harness is separate.....mostly).

>SJRD

	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 17:49:08 1993
Subject: Turborcharged Two-Stroke
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5260
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Gentlemen:

    I would like to elicit suggestions and sources for specific parts
that I need for a project that I am working on.  For my master's thesis
in Mechanical Engineering I am developing a turbocharging system for 
a two-stroke engine to be installed in a Bonneville Lakester.
    The car was built as a senior mechanical engineering project last year
to compete in the 500cc Lakester class at Bonneville.  A Lakester is      
non-production based car, i.e. built from scratch, with the wheels outside 
of the body.  The wheels and tires cannot be faired or covered in any way,
and this is the major aerodynamic limitation for the class.  The car has 
set three records on the salt flats: USFRA K/GL @ 143 mph, SCTA K/GL @ 130    
mph and SCTA K/FL @134 mph.
    The car is powered by a 500cc, 4 cylinder water cooled two-stroke engine
from a Yamaha RZ500 street bike.  These were not sold in the U.S., and 
are thus quite rare here, but I was able to find the engine in a junk     
yard in Canada.  For my M.S. thesis, I am developing a turbocharger system
that will utilize expansion chamber exhaust pipes, ice water intercooling, and
electronic fuel injection. 
    It is with some of the specific parts that I need suggestions.  First,
as this engine is a two stroke, it has no engine oil pump that can be used
to supply oil to the turbocharger bearings, so I need to find a 12 volt
electric oil pump that can pump about 1/2 gallon per minute at about 40 psi.
I have found a turbocharger pre-oiler that could work, but at a price of
$350, this does not seem very attractive.  Current draw of the pump is not  
a big concern because I can always add more batteries.
    I am going to attempt to build my own fuel injection system for the sole
reason that I do not want to shell out $1300-2000 for a Haltech or  
Electromotive system.  I have found a $200 controller based on Intel's 
8051 chip, with on board A/D, digital I/O and a host of other goodies, 
maufactered by a company call Blue Earth Research (I think).       
I have heard rumors that Performance Engineering Magazine will be running
an article on inexpensinve EFI, but as I have only recently sent in my
subscription, I have not received a copy nor do I know when this article     
will be published.  I recall reading something that hinted that this      
system might also be based on the 8051 family, so I am quite interested
in learning more about this.  My system will be quite simple- just based
on mass air flow and engine speed.  So, are there any sources of Mustang
mass airflow sensors other than the junk yard?  What about injectors that 
do not cost $40 each from the magazine advertizers?
    Thank your for your assistance.

----------
Posted by: emory!meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu!kh10516 (Kenneth E Hardman)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 17:54:25 1993
Subject: Re: Banks Dynafact (Was: Re: GM/Olds questions)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5261
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>-> Hmmm.  Seems to me you could get a good idea of driveshaft HP by
>-> measuring the displacement of the transmission and/or motor mounts
>-> and multiplying by the speed.

> You could get a very nice picture of your torque curve by using a
>strain guage on a motor mount (or an inline driveshaft sensor) and an
>accelerometer.  Alas, it requires a moving vehicle, and preferably
>something along the lines of a motorhome or dump truck so you don't just
>roast the tires off.  Don't forget your license plate and insurance,
>too.

About 3 or 4 years ago we displayed a non-contacting torque meter to
measure torque and power on a pto shaft.  A gear was placed on each
end of a pto shaft.  Magnetic pickups (I think) were used to sense the
teeth of the gears.  When the shaft was loaded a phase lag was created
between the two signals.  From this we could calculate torque and power.
We were loading the tractor with a dyno, and the results that we got
were within 5% of each other.  I think this could be done using the drive
shaft.

Mark W. Blunier
MWBG9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 17:59:35 1993
Subject: Re: AN in-car HP/torque meter...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5262
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> [This has been done and commercial sensors are available.  BUT it is not 
> as accurate as inertial instruments like the Dynofact simply because the 
> inertial measurement neatly factors out wheel spin.  torque is directly
> translatable to forward thrust or acceleration.  Think of torque as 
> thrust around a circle.  Given the thrust (force) and the weight of the
> vehicle, the power (horsepower for example) necessary to generate this 
> thrust is a simple physics calculation.  JGD]
> COGITO ERGO SPUD  -- "I think therefore a yam"

To elaborate a bit on John's commentary, the inertial measurement of actual
vehicle dynamics gives an exact* measure of the applied force on the
vehicle - which in turn gives the exact measure of the force applied
by the vehicle (action equals reaction). The problem with not factoring
out wheelspin (which is also a problem for the "glue a strain guage to
the motor mount" solution) is that the torque applied to the diff from
the driveshaft is equal to the torque applied to the roadway, plus the
dissipative losses in the rear end, plus any torque required to maintain
instantaneous acceleration of the rearend - even if you can estimate
the frictional losses, the acceleration of the wheels/axels/diff while
spinning up or spinning down is a factor that is very difficult to correct
for, and even a small amount will give "strange" torque-to-the-road values.
Consider a dragster, for instance, where the tires wind up on launch: that
windup, and the subsequent unwinding, will give some very interesting
characteristics for the driveshaft output torque wrt the torque applied to the
asphalt.

* "exact", of course, to the limits of the accuracy of your inertial 
measurement equipment...


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 18:04:49 1993
Subject: Re: Ford Engine Question. 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5263
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Sean J. Roc D'Arcy asks:

> 1.  Will a 351(x) fit into the T-bird without much modification (besides it 
> looks like making custom headers)?

     Yes.  I assume you have the 302 already and you are refering to the 351W
police cruiser engine of similar vintage.  However, the deck height on the
351 is about 1.3 or so inches higher.  That means you may have to figure
out where to remove an inch from the air cleaner box to get it under the 
hood.  This depends on the intake manifold, the 2700V carb, air filter
box, and such.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the 351 exhaust bolts very close to 'right
up' to your exhaust system.  However, I would recommend scrounging up an
1987 or later Mustang dual exhaust.  The Mustang and T-bird (of your vintage)
are both Fox bodies and should interchange all sorts of components.

> 2.  Will the 351(x) mate to the C-5 Transmission alread in there?  Also how 
> much trouble is it to replace the C-5 with the AMD?

    Yes, most likely.  However, as soon as you stuff the throttle, you will
likely twist that tranny into a pretzel with the torque of the police 351.
Where ever you find the 351, yank the tranny as well.



   Now for the annoying details that will kill you (installation wise).  The
stock 302 is electronic TBI.  The 351 Police is (I think) pure variable
venturi carb [maybe there is some feedback electronics?].  The wiring 
harness, computer (on your t-bird), and other things (like electric fuel
pump on T-bird) don't match.  You can't just plug the 351 into the electrica
recepticals you see lying around inside the engine compartment.
   So what is a poor boy suppose to do?  Pull the 302.  Replace the short
block with the 351.  Make a few adjustments in engine mounts and air filter
box and stuff it right back in.  The heads should bolt right up.  Consult
an expert about the tranny or replace it with the Police Unit.  With this
set up, you kill two birds with one stone.  No one, absolutely no one,
including a smog inspector will be able to tell any difference under the
hood.  Second, you'll have the fastest middle ager car on the block.

----------
Posted by: Gordon Laird CDC 553-2988 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 10 19:09:19 1993
Subject: Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5264
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I recently purchased a 93 5.0 Mustang LX and I was wondering what
performance modifications can be made without greatly shortening
the life of the engine.  I do not plan to do any racing.

Karl Siebert
karls@eru.ericsson.se

----------
Posted by: emory!erusunsrv3.ericsson.se!karls (Karl Siebert)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 09:50:04 1993
Subject: Re: Turborcharged Two-Stroke 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5265
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Mon, 10 May 93 17:10 EDT
> From:  hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
> 
>Gentlemen:

(I am not so sure about this :-).

> ........

>    The car is powered by a 500cc, 4 cylinder water cooled two-stroke engine
>from a Yamaha RZ500 street bike.  These were not sold in the U.S., and 
>are thus quite rare here, but I was able to find the engine in a junk     
>yard in Canada.  For my M.S. thesis, I am developing a turbocharger system
>that will utilize expansion chamber exhaust pipes, ice water intercooling, and
>electronic fuel injection. 

Cool.

>    I am going to attempt to build my own fuel injection system for the sole
>reason that I do not want to shell out $1300-2000 for a Haltech or  
>Electromotive system.  I have found a $200 controller based on Intel's 
>8051 chip, with on board A/D, digital I/O and a host of other goodies, 
>maufactered by a company call Blue Earth Research (I think).       
>I have heard rumors that Performance Engineering Magazine will be running
>an article on inexpensinve EFI, but as I have only recently sent in my
>subscription, I have not received a copy nor do I know when this article     
>will be published.  I recall reading something that hinted that this      

(I could...but I won't :-)

>system might also be based on the 8051 family, so I am quite interested
>in learning more about this.  My system will be quite simple- just based
>on mass air flow and engine speed.  So, are there any sources of Mustang
>mass airflow sensors other than the junk yard?  What about injectors that 
>do not cost $40 each from the magazine advertizers?
>    Thank your for your assistance.

I do a lot of Ford electronics work (I will have the PE article real soon
now John), but I use the Motorola 68HCxx so I am not much good with the
Intel *stuff*.  You can get air flow meters from various places, and I
get a pretty good deal on new ones from my local dealer, but the best
price is still my favorite Mustang recycler.  I don't know what size
meter you need, but you don't want to go too big or too small.  Too
small is an obvious restriction, but too big is a problem also (but not
as much) because at low air velocities the meter becomes erratic.  I don't
know how to size them either, except by trial and error (and experience).

I will make one suggestion here.  Consider not using mass airflow.  Why?
Because you have a very specialized application (i.e. you are writing your
own EFI software), and you can reduce the cost by not using one.  The
flow restriction is probably not a big deal because of the turbo.  Use an
absolute pressure sensor and air temperature sensor (far down the intake
after the intercooler), and possibly throttle position sensor.  You need
these anyway, and along with your knowledge of the remainder of the engine
you should be all set.  Mass air is nice when you don't want to (or
can't) change code when engine mods are made, or you are operating at
extreme weather fluctuations.

Injectors....I can easily get 14, 19, and 30 lb./hr. from the same Mustang
recycler, around $10 each (depending on availability, i.e. how many wasted
engines exist).  The 35, 46, and 52 lb./hr. are harder to find because of
their limited use.  Mabye you can even talk John into a cleaning and
analysis, since I don't have my machine built yet.

Good Luck.  Let me know if I can help further.

>----------
>Posted by: emory!meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu!kh10516 (Kenneth E Hardman)
> 



	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 09:58:42 1993
Subject: Re: Turborcharged Two-Stroke 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5266
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I will make one suggestion here.  Consider not using mass airflow.  Why?
>Because you have a very specialized application (i.e. you are writing your
>own EFI software), and you can reduce the cost by not using one.  The
>flow restriction is probably not a big deal because of the turbo.  Use an
>absolute pressure sensor and air temperature sensor (far down the intake
>after the intercooler), and possibly throttle position sensor.  You need
>these anyway, and along with your knowledge of the remainder of the engine
>you should be all set.  Mass air is nice when you don't want to (or
>can't) change code when engine mods are made, or you are operating at
>extreme weather fluctuations.

I'm a real fan of speed-density because of its simplicity and adaptability
and I almost always recommend it.  Except for 2-strokes. Problem is 
2 stroke engines have essentially no manifold vacuum and what vacuum 
there is goes away real fast. Then there's the severe reversion problem 
on non-reed-valved engines that will drive a MAP sensor crazy.  The 
problems are recognized to the extent that Haltech makes a special 
speed-alpha version for two strokes.  I consider speed-alpha too crude
for anything except continuous wide open applications like racing
boats.  The MAF sensor will solve most of these problems.  

Let me suggest a real simple design.  This is not my idea.  A loyal reader
sent me some Mitsubishi Starion injectors to flow and clean, along with
some pages from the service manual.  This engine is turbocharged and
uses a quasi-throttle body scheme. A pair of HUGE (>170 lb/hr) injectors
spray into a plenum upstream of the throttle but downstream of the turbo.
Here is the innovatively simple part.

The airflow meter is the variable frequency type.  IT generates a pulse
train whose frequency varies with the flow.  The ECU fires the injectors
at a fixed pulse width at some sub-frequency of the flow signal completely
asynchronous to the crankshaft or ignition.  The more air flow, the more
pulses and the more firings per unit time.  This is a very elegant solution.
The flowmeter signal has to be compensated only for air temperature
and cold starting.  I suspect the ECU does this by varying the width
of the "fixed" injector pulse.  This could be done with not much more
than a binary counter and a 555 monostable multivibrator with the 
temperature sensor in the pulse width circuit.  The MAF from some of the
GM small 4 cylinder engines such as the Cavilier are variable frequency
and are about the right size. I have one here in the lab for testing.

Because of the high RPM involved and it being a 2 stroke, you may have to do
a throttle body-style design.  A revolution at 10,000 rpm is only 6 ms
so you wouldn't have much dynamic range for a port injection scheme.
You COULD go with two injectors per cylinder but injection into a plenum
would probably be simpler.

I'd set the pulse width at 
>Injectors....I can easily get 14, 19, and 30 lb./hr. from the same Mustang
>recycler, around $10 each (depending on availability, i.e. how many wasted
>engines exist).  The 35, 46, and 52 lb./hr. are harder to find because of
>their limited use.  Mabye you can even talk John into a cleaning and
>analysis, since I don't have my machine built yet.

That offer of a free analysis and cleaning is still open.

>	-- Dan
>----------
>Posted by: Dan Malek 
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Lee Harvey Oswald: Where are ya when we need ya?

----------
Posted by: jgd@dixie.com (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 11:42:21 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5267
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>           distributor is ported, (I have a Holley) then why
>           must I disconnect it when setting initial advance?
>           thanks if you can answer these questions
>           Paul 
>----------
>Posted by: emory!everest.tandem.com!paul (Paul Duffy)

I think the reason is to ensure that you are sitting on figurative
level ground, that is, centrifugal advance only.  Sometimes you can
get more vacuum out of an engine at tune-up speeds than other times,
and thus would the timing setting be skewed (screwed).

	I guess.
				Thi VanAusdal

--
\---Thi VanAusdal e-mail: ausdal@charlie.ece.scarolina.edu---/ USC Gamecocks,
| My lady's motto: "If he ain't broke, go back to the mall." | You can't lick
/---No, I am NOT ASE certified.  So what?--------------------\	our 'Cocks...
Opinions are mine, and so are the typso.                  Unless you ask nice.

----------
Posted by: emory!usceast.cs.scarolina.edu!ece.scarolina.edu!ausdal (Thi Van Ausdal)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 11:55:29 1993
Subject: Re:  Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5268
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I highly recommend swapping the stock mufflers for a pair of Walker
Dynomax Super Turbo Mufflers.  I tried both straight pipe and the
Walkers.  Straight pipe kills the low end torque and your ears at 1800
RPM (65-70mph).  The Walkers will give you a noticable power improvement
throughout the power band and only slightly increase sound.  And you
can't beat the price.  A local shop installed mine for a total price of
$75.  Most bang for the buck.

Next remove the intake silencer from inside the right front fender.
This is basically a muffler for the intake and supposidly gives 5-10 hp.
It takes some manouvering to get it out, but it'll come.

Next trick is to install a cooler thermostat.  Stock I think is around
180 or 190 degrees.  The local parts store has 160 degree thermostats.

[I would recommend against this unless you know why you're lowering the
engine temperature and how to evaluate the results.  Many but not all 
engines make more power at higher temperatures. See this month's 
"Circle track" magazine for a report on the GM restrictor motor that
does.  The engine management system may not like the cooler temperature
too and may never come out of cold enrichment.  JGD]

Another popular item is to replace your stock pullies with underdrive
pullies.  These are available from most speed shops.  These will cause
your accessories to turn slower, lessoning their parasitic drain on the
engine.

[I'd advise against this one too unless you know the specific problem 
you are trying to fix.  Ford, in particular, is pushing the limit
with their alternators trying to reduce weight and drag in an effort
to improve CAFE.  I have documented a T-bird where the alternator
was too small to supply the load at low engine speed.  Ford patched over
the problem with a larger battery.  A week of stop-and-go traffic still
left his battery drained.  Before slapping a "trick" part on the beast,
make some measurements to see if it will work.  Measure the current 
flow at idle and low speed with all the accessories and head lights on
and see if the alternator can keep up.  If it is marginal, slapping an
underdrive pulley on the thing will only make it worse.  Ditto with the
water pump.  I'd bet (without having actually measured it) that 
the water pump is on the edge too, all for CAFE considerations.  JGD]

Handling wise, a must do is to slide in the front struts to achieve
maximum negative camber.  Raise the front of the car with the wheels off
the ground and loosen the three nuts on the top of each strut tower
under the hood.  You'll also have to remove the rivit.  Then slide the
top of the strut in towards the engine as far as possible and tighten
the nuts.  You'll notice this as soon and you enter the first hard
corner.  The car actually turns!!  I've seen as much as 1.5 degrees of
negative camber from this trick.  Make sure to have your toe set since
this trick will cause toe out (which is good for quick turn-in but bad
for straight line stability)

Happy Stangin

Keith Kucera
kkucera@sun06.mtgy.gtemtc.com

----------
Posted by: Keith Kucera 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 12:03:38 1993
Subject: Re: O2 sensors, M85, stoichiometry
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5269
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> [What is the duty cycle at WOT?  If it is not the lesser of >90% or 1 ms
> closed time, the injectors are too big.  It will therefore be impossible
> to get the motor to idle down because the idle mixture would require such
> a small open time.  
 
Hmmm, I'm not sure...  I'll have to talk to Brian about it in the
morning, and look at some of the maps.

> It IS possible to control the injector in the sub-2 ms range but it is
> tedious.  Your ECU must have the capability of non-linear mapping so that
> you can move more map points down low and it must have supply voltage
> compensation.  The dynamic flow deviates negatively, that is, the delivered
> flow is less than indicated, at short times and is repeatable so it works in 
> your favor if your ECU can take advantage of it.   What you have to do is
> map every .25 ms or so between the minimum interval and about 2 ms.

I think the breakpoints in my map have to be evenly spaced, but the ECU
does do interpolation between map points.  Also have supply voltage
compensation, but I dunno if the curve is correct.
 
> BTW, if your ECU gives you the option, peak-and-hold drive is a big, big
> win in situations like this.  Not only does it knock the injector open
> faster and close it faster, it is also much less sensitive to supply voltage.
 
Yeah, weve got peak and hold drivers, and the injectors are 1.8ohms.
SOmething strange happened when we tried to hook up the scope, though...
When I hook up either lead from the scope to the ground wire of the injector,
I get a small arc from the clip to the wire and the injector hangs open.
This is with and without the other lead from the scope connected, and w or w/o
the car not connected to the lap, battery charger, or anything like that.
Strange, eh?

[The way almost all these things work is there is battery voltage on one
side of the injector and the other side is switched to ground through
a transistor to fire the injector.  If your scope does not have isolated
inputs (most don't) and you try to connect the scope directly across
the injector, the ground side of the scope will either short  the battery or
fire the injector depending on which side you're on, assuming there is
a ground path back, which there usually is.  Easily solved.  Simply
connect the ground lead to ground and probe each injector pin with the probe 
until you find the pin that is switched.  50% probability :-).  You'll
see that lead go to ground when the injector is fired.  The waveform will
look quite similar to the scope shots in my FI flowbench article.  
This is an area where portable scopes like my Scopemeter or the Tek
portable really shine.  Being battery powered and having isolated inputs,
I don't have to think about ground loops.  JGD]

The ECU is the "low-end" NOS/EFI Technologies speed density unit.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 12:13:46 1993
Subject: M85 info
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5270
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


[this article was SUPPOSED to go to lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu]
Finally, someone dealing with M85.  Hey, I'll make you a deal, I'll
tell you what I know if you tell me what you know!  I'm looking to
do an M85 conversion in my late model 5.0L Mustang (doubt I'll keep
the stock engine, but it's definitely going into that body).  I need
some help with locating the proper fuel injection components (I want
to do it with fuel injection) as well as some counseling on the
actual construction of the engine... precautions?  Needed parts?  So
far I think I've got a lot of info, but I certainly don't have
enough.  So please, if you can help me out, I'd be very grateful.

But as for what you asked about M85, I'll see if this helps you.  I
have a research paper here (I don't know who wrote it, I wasn't
doing this research for school reasons) that speaks of methanol
vehicles.  While it doesn't give the exact stoichiometric a/f ratio
for M85, it does say a bit about related subjects that might provide
you with enough info to figure it out... it says that straight
methnol has a ratio of 6.4:1.  When you mix methanol with gas it
lowers the ratio of the gasoline.  For 5% methanol mixed with
gasoline, the ratio becomes 14.1:1 and for 10% methanol in gasoline
the ratio becomes 13.7:1.  The paper also states that the ratio of
gasoline is 14.5:1, in case you needed to know.  I would think that
you might be able to find out what you want to know with this
information...
 
I apologize to the authors of this paper, but I do not have the
information about who wrote it and when and other such information
on hand, I didn't think anyone would ever want to know so I didn't
copy the information.  I can give credit for it if people would
like.
 
And oh, please, HELP ME FIND INFO!  I'm an innocent and desperate
student, please be kind and help a moron in distress.

[My old pal, "Automotove Fuels Handbook" from SAE has a lot of info on
methanol and M85 fuels.  Lots and lots of references too.  If your
library doesn't have it, it might be a well-spent $100 to buy it yourself.
There are tones of things being published on methanol in the various 
SAE proceedings, particularly with regard to flexi-fueling.  If you're
going to drive this car on the street, I'd highly suggest you look at going
the flexi-fuel route.  This involves installing a fuel composition sensor in 
the gas line that tells the ECU what ratio of meth and gas is being 
burned so it can adjust the ratio accordingly.  I've seen several new product
announcements in the "Automotive Engineering" recently regarding 
composition sensors so they are available.  Flexi-fuel lets you use a tank
of gasoline if you get stuck where you can't get meth or M85.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!sdcc13.ucsd.edu!bkolodzi (Hurdy Gurdy Man )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 12:32:42 1993
Subject: Motor oil
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5271
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In my nice new Summit catalog there is a listing for Pennzoil motor
oil, specifically their GT Performance Racing Oil.  This stuff is
billed as being made for engines running on alcohol, nitromethane
and racing gasolines and that it is supposed to handle the diluting
effects of nitromethane and alcohol.  Does anybody know anything
about this stuff?  Are there any other brands of oil out there that
do the same thing?  

Another thing is that this oil is only available (or at least they
only show listings) in SAE 50, 60, and 25W-50 grades.  This brings
up another question.  What defines the weight of oil for a particular
engine?  I heard that you need higher weight oils in engines that
have larger clearences to make up for the increased size, is that
true?  And help and info about this more than likely generic and
FAQ-ish info is greatly appreciated.

----------
Posted by: emory!sdcc13.ucsd.edu!bkolodzi (Hurdy Gurdy Man )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 12:38:41 1993
Subject: Re: Ford Engine Question.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5272
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> So what is a poor boy suppose to do?  Pull the 302.  Replace the
-> short
-> block with the 351.  Make a few adjustments in engine mounts and air
-> filter box and stuff it right back in.  The heads should bolt right
-> up.

 BRAWWWK!  That'd work - in fact, that's exactly what a 351K is - but
the 302 heads suck anyway, and bolting them onto the 351 results in a
motor somewhere between a warm rubber band and something you scrape off
your shoe.  Like a 351K.  Besides, you need *everything* else from the
351 - timing cover, intake manifold, distributor, oil pan, damper, and
whatnot.

 BTW, you'd have to use 351K heads.  302 heads have holes for 7/16" head
bolts.  351W blocks are set up for 1/2" head bolts.

 Due to differences in the intake manifolding, the 351s are usually the
exact same height as a 302 despite being an inch or so wider.  Chances
are it'd fit fine.

 If clearances are tight enough to prevent using the 351, you can modify
the 302.  '68-'73 351 Windsor heads have much bigger ports and valves
and are quite worthwhile.  You can also offset-grind the crank out to
315 or so, or even cut down a Cleveland crank to punch the 302 out to
351, though you get into some strange rod/pin arrangements.
                                                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 12:47:39 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5273
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod,wiz.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: Re: Possessed Coil Wire
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
References: <7q8vhzf@dixie.com>
Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 14:03:11 GMT
Lines: 20

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>> 
>> 
>> -> per foot, and the coil wire is about 5 feet long.
>> 
>>  Uh, are you trying to send signals to Mars, or what?  Can't you get the
>> coil any closer to the engine than that?

>If the coil is anywhere near our crank angle sensor or cam sensor 
>(flying magnets, not sure of the pickup type, we snagged 'em off
>a new GM 2.2l or a Quad4 i think) it royally messes up the signals.

Well, you could always do what they did to the original LT-1 engine, and
put the coil inside a metal box to deaden the RF noise.  Just a suggestion.

--
                                 - Mike Golden -
                            mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu
                        "Keep honking... I'm reloading."

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 12:56:25 1993
Subject: Turbocharger oiling
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5274
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


We finally have this year's Formula SAE car running, and I am concerned
about oiling of the turbocharger.  The car itself has lost about 60 pounds
from last year, and has had its Kawasaki engine replaced with a Yamaha
FZR600.  We are running an AirResearch T02 with A/R of .47 and fairly
small turbine and compressors (I didn't order it, so I do not know exactly
what they are.)  Carburetion is a 37mm CV Keihin which was kindly donated
by the mechanic of the local Kaw dealer last year.  Its from some 1974
750 four with two carbs, or something like that.

Anyway, when we first fired it, oil was blowing out the exhaust side.
Oil pressure on startup is around 60-80 psi, depending.  The fellow who
sold us the turbocharger said that the oil pressure is too high, and that
is causing it to blow past the seal.  The problem does seem to get better
when the idle oil pressure drops to 20-40 psi.  Problem is, last night
when driving, we noticed a little smoke (oil and gasoline since I think we
are a bit rich on the top end).  Is the smoke only because of the high oil
pressures at high RPM, or is the turbocharger in need of a new seal?

Another question:  We are running a 20mm restriction as per rules.  Problem
is the boost pressure goes to 5 psi and stays there.  The wastegate never
opens, and the boost never drops off as we hit choked flow.  I am wondering
if we have some massive vacuum leaks upstream of the turbo (we use high
pressure rubber hose for carb/venturi/turbo mounting) which never let it
choke, or do we have massive leaks downstream that never let it pop off.
The manifold probably does have some pinholes, but we leak tested it with
compressed air and fixed all the obvious holes.  We are using thick neoprene
for manifold to engine interface (I know probably not the right material).

Finally, are there any Keihin experts out there?  The mechanic at the bike
shop was very helpful, but he's not always available. I need to know if there
is any way to slow down the opening of the slide other than by using stiffer
springs.  We have gone to a stiffer spring than last year, but some of the
2000-3000 RPM driveability that we had has gone away, and I am afraid that
the spring is so stiff it is not allowing the slide to open all the way.
Last year we installed jets in the bleed circuits from the bottom of the
carb to the top, so would blocking these off help?  Also, would maybe
adding some washers (additional slide mass) inside the slide make any
difference?  This carb is somewhat unique in that it has an idle, midrange,
and main jet instead of just 2 jets.

Thanks in advance, and I apologize if this is more rec.motorcycle than
hotrod.

Thomas Brunner
Graduate Research Assistant, University of Illinois Autolab
tabg2553@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

----------
Posted by: "Thomas A. Brunner" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 21:30:54 1993
Subject: Re: O2 sensors, M85, stoichiometry 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5275
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Mon, 10 May 93 03:04 EDT
> From:  Jonathan Lusky
> 
>Anyone here ever used a zirconia O2 sensor with M85?

>From my documentation, it appears that Ford uses them on their M85
flex-fuel Taurus.

>Should stoich still be approx .5v (how bad is the hydrogen
>shift with methanol)?  Right now my engine is running like

It seems to me that regardless of the gazintas (gasoline vs. methanol),
the combustion process should result in the same gazottas (mostly CO2
and H2O, plus the other NOx, aldehydes and stuff).  The O2 sensor
should be OK.

>crap, and won't run at all unless O2 sensor voltage is > .8v.
>Could I have somehow damaged the sensor in such a way that it would
>be reading high?  I know my voltmeter isn't the problem, since
>I get the same numbers from an oscilliscope.  Anyone know the
>stoiciometric A/F ratio for M85?  Hydrogen/carbon ratio &
>oxygen/carbo ratio?

As I recall (and this is a little foggy) from watching the 100%
methanol engines on the dyno, they run an AFR somewhere around 10:1.
I can only guess that M85 will be somewhere close to that, rather
than the 14.7:1 for gasoline.

[Automotive Fuels Handbook lists stoich for methanol as 6.45:1 and 
the best power full throttle mixture of around 4:1.  That fits pretty 
well to my rule of thumb experience of 3X enrichment over gas.  JGD]

I will go into my experiences with O2 sensors, so you can tune out at
this point if you are not interested.  I have found that you can't
run an engine at stoich all of the time (I was aware of acceleration
enrichment and running rich at WOT, but there is more).  I have found
that at idle and very light engine loads (i.e. air flow is below some
low water mark level), there is no way an engine will run at stoich,
you have to run it rich.  After an acceleration phase, I don't hop to
the O2 adjustment too fast.  The extremely rich condition (to the sensor)
will cause you to slam the AFR way too lean, and the engine will do the
choke and puke until your algorithm settles down.  You have to slowly
work into the O2 adjustment.

There is also some lag in the closed loop feedback.  Some engines are
worse than others, but the point is that you don't actually maintain
the set point of 0.45 or 0.5 volts.  For example, if you detect a rich
condition and start to lean out the injectors, when you get to the set
point the injectors are running much too lean.  You start making it a
little richer, but the O2 is lagging and it continues to tell you lean
and by the time it swings back through stoich and to rich, you are really
running rich.  Part of the problem is the very non-linear nature of the
sensor.  The other part is that "really rich" to the sensor is about an
AFR of 14.5:1 for gasoline, and "really lean" is about 14.8:1.

I have about a dozen different algorithms, and the very simple seem to
work the best.  Here is what I do, and I hope someone can tell me how
to do this better.  Below a certain air flow low water mark (and especially
at idle), I don't even look at the O2 sensor.  I rely on the injector
maps and other sensors to get the injector pulses to make the engine run.
The O2 is pegged big time rich at this point.  After an acceleration
phase that caused enrichment, I wait about 100 engine revolutions using
the injector map and other sensors before engaging the O2 algorithm.
This seems to cure the lean out condition right after the enrichment.
When running closed loop, you don't want to sample the O2 and make
adjustments too quickly.  Things just don't happen that fast in an engine,
especially when you have more computes than most folks have on their
desks.  I sample the O2 once per engine revolution, and make a very small
change in the injector pulse width.  My current algorithm computes a
percentage change, which is adjusted up or down depending upon O2 value.
It can handle both positive and negative adjustment from the current
injector map value.  The change is very small.  I can adjust the injector
pulse by as little as 0.4%, and that is the granularity of the change
once I am within the mostly linear "window" of the O2 sensor.  A very
small change in the injector pulse width makes a big difference at the
O2 sensor.

[I can see a couple of problems.  First off, you probably need to 
do a composite sample on the oxygen sensor.  It is so fast that if you
sample it only once a revolution and use that value, you'll likely only
see one cylinder and it could vary significantly from cycle to cycle.
If you have the CPU cycles, you should sample the sensor several times
per revolution and run a sliding average.  If you don't have the CPU cycles,
build an analog low pass filter into the sensor circuit that will average
over a significant period of time.  JGD]

That's enough writing for now.  This is working pretty well for
me, but it changes a little from one engine to another.  I am looking
for more suggestions, also.

Now, can someone tell me how they do FI enrichment when coming off of idle?
I can get it right about 90% of the time, but I always find that 10%
when I pull out in front of some big truck.


[What is the configuration of the injectors and intake?  Is much of the
intake manifold wetted?  These problems you've described sound exactly
like the ones I've experienced with throttle body injection.  A whole bunch
of fuel must be injected to wet the manifold in addition to that needed 
for acceleration enrichment.  The enrichment wave form looks like a 
tail pulse.  Sharp rise and a slow decrease to the new steady state 
value.  Closed loop control is greatly complicated by this delayed
fuel transport mechanism.  JGD]

	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 21:37:01 1993
Subject: Re:  Turbocharger oiling
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5276
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I've had a couple of bikes with regular-ish Keihin carbs and they've all had
direct linkages to the slides, no springs inside except for one that holds 
the mixture needle in place. Is this what you want to do, change the mixture?
If so there're a bunch of little grooves at the top of the needle and you
can set mixture by selecting which one the keeper clip is snapped into.

The carb racks I've rebuilt all have master spring providing the return force
for the whole set. The internal spring is not for return, just to hold the 
needle in place. If you're using one off a rack, maybe the main return
spring is missing? Just a thought.

[He's using a CV-type carb which does have a spring that offsets air velocity
induced vacuum on a piston that operates the slide.  A butterfly throttle
is actually hooked to the throttle cable.  

The first thought I had when I read the original post was "Are you blowing
or sucking through the carb?"  CV carbs don't work much at all when blown
through.  The piston slide arrangement is designed to maintain a pretty
constant air velocity thru the venturi.  When the air density changes markedly,
the mixture goes all to hell because more air mass for a given velocity
flows.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 21:41:23 1993
Subject: 351K ??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5277
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> When did Ford come up with this gem?

 Mid '70s through at least early '80s.  Easily identified by having only
one intake manifold bolt at the end of the head instead of a pair.  If
the heads are off, they have 9/16 head bolt holes and 302-style
rectangular water passages.


->  And why??

 Who the hell knows?  The 351W isn't exactly a deep breather to begin
with.
                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 21:46:30 1993
Subject: Turborcharged Two-Stroke
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5278
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> a big concern because I can always add more batteries.
->   I am going to attempt to build my own fuel injection system for the

  For what you're doing, why not just run a simple bypass valve system
with an electric fuel pump and nozzles in the intake tract?  Move the
valve by hand to adjust the mixture for maximum power.  That's basically
how airplanes used to do it.  Toss in a $35 oxygen sensor to make sure
you don't lean it out too far, and you're in business.  Total cost:
probably $150 if you buy everything new.


-> as this engine is a two stroke, it has no engine oil pump that can be
-> used to supply oil to the turbocharger bearings, so I need to find a
-> 12 voltelectric

 How about driving a standard mechanical pump via the alternator shaft?
The Kent 1600 used in the '70-'71 Pinto is designed for external
mounting and would cost $30 or so, or you could use any Ford-style
gerotor set and make up your own housing.


-> yard in Canada.  For my M.S. thesis, I am developing a turbocharger
-> system that will utilize expansion chamber exhaust pipes, ice water
-> intercooling, and electronic fuel injection.

 I realize expansion chamber design is very weird, but I have doubts the
chambers would function normally when restricted by the turbo.  The
turbo also aggravates the two stroke's main problem, which is heat.
Unless you're trying to prove a point with the turbo, I'd strongly
recommend you use a supercharger instead.  One of the small B&M units
would work.  You could drive it off the crank or the clutch basket,
depending on what was easiest.  With the supercharger, you'd still have
the boost (and even the intercooler) without the heat load of the turbo
trying to turn the piston into Silly Putty, plus you would be able to
adjust the port heights for blowdown cooling.  With continuous flow fuel
injection your gas mileage would go to hell in a handbasket, but for
something running only a few miles at a time you could live with it.


-> Electromotive system.  I have found a $200 controller based on
-> Intel's 8051 chip, with on board A/D, digital I/O and a host of other
-> goodies, maufactered by a company call Blue Earth Research (I think).

 I'd be interested in finding out more about this system.


 You might also get a few comments from the two stroke mailing list:
2strokes@MicroUnity.com.
                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 22:12:38 1993
Subject: For Sale: 4-Gas Exhaust Analyzer
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5279
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


For Sale:  Sun model SGA-9000 4-Gas Automotive Exhaust Analyzer

This is a BAR-80 certified exhaust gas analyzer that measures Carbon
Monoxide (CO), Carbon Dioxide (CO2), Oxygen (O2), and Hydrocarbons (HC).
Like all BAR-80 style units, it has a heated measurement bench, the
ability to calibrate the system using external calibration gas, and 
auto zero routine to adjust for normal clean air.  

It was purchased from a garage going out of business.  It was not working
at the time, and was repaired by Sun factory service.  All of the tubing
and filter bowls were replaced.  At the time, it was eligible for the Sun
extended factory warranty.  To qualify for the warranty, a service checkout
by Sun would be needed.  Since the repairs, it has been stored.  All
functions work perfectly, and it currently reflects accurate readings
using calibration gas.  Since the repair included a new O2 sensor, and
that was about 2 years ago, it may require another O2 sensor before long.

This unit is currently available from Sun, and had a list price of over 
$5300 when new.  The measurement bench is the same one as in a BAR-90 
certification machine except for not measuring Oxides of Nitrogen.
BAR-90 smog test machines can come with or without NOX benches depending
on the law and individual test requirements for the area.  It has the 
ability to drive a PC compatible parallel printer.  It does not have the 
data storage and anti-tamper devices, required in BAR-90 analyzers and 
so can't be used to do exhaust pass/fail inspections.  It will tell if a 
smog test can be passed by a vehicle, not to mention all of the
diagnostics and timesaving possible with exhaust gas testing.

I am asking $2000 plus shipping for it.  I may be reached by email.  You 
can also use snail mail or phone as below.  

	Rick Kirchhof
	6102-B Bullard Dr.
	Austin, Texas 78757    (512) 454-4306  (home)

----------
Posted by: emory!posms.aus.tx.us!rick (Rick Kirchhof)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 22:18:21 1993
Subject: Re: Banks Dynafact 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5280
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Vericom makes a performance computer that measures speed & distance, HP, 
>torque, wheel spin, & G force. It can also monitor RPM and time to speed
>or distance.  

Actually, the units measure t and a, and using some ideas like F = ma and
acceleration is the derivative of velocity with respect to time, and velocity
is the derivative of distance, compute the rest.  You need to have a good
idea of the vehicles weight if you want to calculate actual numbers, as the
unit assumes 1 for m in the F = ma equation.  The newer ones do have more
inputs, I believe, to map the time and distance figures to engine rpm.

But nitpicking aside, I have one of their old units, and it is indeed quite
handy for getting some idea of a motors power curve as it actually is in
a given installation.  It is a time consuming process to get a decent graph,
but you can measure intervals of 0-5 mph, 5-10 mph, etc. to get a peak
power point about every few hundred rpm, and calculate nice hp and torque
curves. I understand the new Vericom 2000 units do a lot more in this
regard, making it a lot easier to use than the early simple-minded units.

But if you want to check the effects of lots of changes to your vehicles,
this is a good solution.

mjb.

-- 
"Great ale makes great times.  Great times make great friends.
 Great friends make great neighborhoods.  Great neighborhoods make
 great cities.  Great cities make great nations.  Great nations make
 a great world.  Therefore, the greatness of the world depends on ale."

----------
Posted by: emory!triumph.cs.utah.edu!mjb (Mark J Bradakis)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 11 22:23:00 1993
Subject: Higher RPM unstability
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5281
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	Here is a quick question refering to my Mustang's 302 (Now 306).
At about 4800-5000 RPM, I suddenly experience a rapid loss of power, surging,
and a strange noise (kinda airy).  The equipment on this engine consists of
Comp Cams 268, Edlebrock Performer intake, Carter AFB (Slightly richer than
out of the box), MSD 6A with Duraspark distributor (4 BTDC initial advance),
Carter High Volume fuel pump, headers (1 5/8"), about 10:1 compression (with
TRW forged pistons).  The engine will rev up to just under 6000 before loosing
all willingness to rev.  I don't think this is valve float (springs were
matched to cam) because I have heard what that sounds like.  I suspected fuel
starvation, but can't seem to see any other evidence that this is so.  I also
investigated excessive advance, but disconnecting the vacuum advance and
retarding the initial advance didn't seem to change the point at which this
occurs (but made getting there much less responsive).  I have tried a different
carburator too (Holley) with no change.  Can anybody help me become less
perplexed?  It has always done this.
--Alex
 

----------
Posted by: emory!othello.ucdavis.edu!ez027115 (Team Borg)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 09:24:13 1993
Subject: Re: M85 info
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5282
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> [this article was SUPPOSED to go to lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu]
> Finally, someone dealing with M85.  Hey, I'll make you a deal, I'll
> tell you what I know if you tell me what you know!  I'm looking to
> do an M85 conversion in my late model 5.0L Mustang (doubt I'll keep
> the stock engine, but it's definitely going into that body).  I need
> some help with locating the proper fuel injection components (I want
> to do it with fuel injection) as well as some counseling on the
> actual construction of the engine... precautions?  Needed parts?  So
> far I think I've got a lot of info, but I certainly don't have
> enough.  So please, if you can help me out, I'd be very grateful.
 
Personally, I think methanol is really nasty stuff and I'd rather be
running racing gas.  I just started working on the project recently,
so I'm not extremely versed in dealing with M85.  Since this is a race
car with a fairly short intended life span, we've probably done some things
that are totally unsuitable for long term use (what do I mean "probably"
:).  To run M85, you'll need to almost double the flow capacity of your
fuel system (pump, injectors, lines?).  You'll also need to replace
any parts that aren't resistant to methanol.

[I'm with you on that one, Jon.  If you look at methanol objectively,
it has all the characteristics that are considered BAD in a fuel.
Low vapor pressure, high heat of vaporization (mixed blessing. Helps
cool the charge louses up cold running), sucks water like a cheap
whore, doesn't mix with oil very well when moist, corrodes just about
everything except cast iron or stainless, etc, etc Based on my experiences 
with racing motorcycles and racing chainsaws on straight methanol, I'm 
pretty sure I could get similar specific power from modern high octane 
racing gas.  Such stuff wasn't available 20 years ago so methanol was the name
of the game.  JGD]

> you with enough info to figure it out... it says that straight
> methnol has a ratio of 6.4:1.  When you mix methanol with gas it
> lowers the ratio of the gasoline.  For 5% methanol mixed with
> gasoline, the ratio becomes 14.1:1 and for 10% methanol in gasoline
> the ratio becomes 13.7:1.  The paper also states that the ratio of
> gasoline is 14.5:1, in case you needed to know.  I would think that
 
Stoich for gasoline should be 14.7:1.  I think stoich for M85 is 9.18:1,
but I'm not sure and wanted to verify it.
 
> [My old pal, "Automotove Fuels Handbook" from SAE has a lot of info on
> methanol and M85 fuels.  Lots and lots of references too.  If your
> library doesn't have it, it might be a well-spent $100 to buy it yourself.
> There are tones of things being published on methanol in the various 
> SAE proceedings, particularly with regard to flexi-fueling.  If you're
> going to drive this car on the street, I'd highly suggest you look at going
> the flexi-fuel route.  This involves installing a fuel composition sensor in 
> the gas line that tells the ECU what ratio of meth and gas is being 
> burned so it can adjust the ratio accordingly.  I've seen several new product
> announcements in the "Automotive Engineering" recently regarding 
> composition sensors so they are available.  Flexi-fuel lets you use a tank
> of gasoline if you get stuck where you can't get meth or M85.  JGD]

Last time I went to the library I was looking for papers specifically about
methanol, and all of them I found mainly concentrated on either cold
starting or special lubricants.  Didn't think of checking the Automotive
Fuels Handbook (never looked at it, but have heard of it.  I'm sure my faculty
advisor has it sitting on the bookshelf in his office, but he's in Korea this
week).  I definately agree on the flexi-fuel part, but is there any off the
shelf ECU that will utilize the fuel composition meter?

[No.  This is strictly a roll-yer-own proposition.  I recall a Toptech (or
whatever SAE calls their topical symposia) announcement coming through here
awhile back on flexi-fuel.  The proceedings should be available and should
directly address the issues surrounding flexi-fuel.  JGD]

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 09:32:03 1993
Subject: Re: Higher RPM unstability
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5283
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 	Here is a quick question refering to my Mustang's 302 (Now 306).
> At about 4800-5000 RPM, I suddenly experience a rapid loss of power, surging,
> and a strange noise (kinda airy).  The equipment on this engine consists of
...
>occurs (but made getting there much less responsive).  I have tried a different
> carburator too (Holley) with no change.  Can anybody help me become less
> perplexed?  It has always done this.

Off the top of my head, it sounds like you are sucking the float bowls dry
due to inadequate fuel flow.  Tee in a fuel pressure gauge at the carb
to verify you are maintaning fuel pressure up top.  I have a little 1" Holley
fuel prssure gauge with a couple of feet of hose that I just clip under
a windsheild wiper for this type of testing.



While I'm on the subject of fuel pressure, is referencing the fuel pressure
regulator to MAP necessary for custom/racing EFI applications?  It seems
to me that it would be very important, especially on a blown engine,
in order to keep fuel flow a function of pulse width instead of pulse
width and MAP.  Our F-SAE guys had been running with the regulator referrenced
to atmosphere, and I think that would at least partially explain the trouble
we've been having getting the engine to run at low RPM and/or high MAP.
Will hopefully have the engine put back together tomorrow to test this
theory.  Am I correct in my reasoning, or does it really not make that big
of a difference (ie.. something that could easily be corrected for in the fuel
map)?

[Referencing atmospheric pressure is hideously wrong.  If your fuel pressure
is referenced to atmospheric while the injector discharge is seeing
manifold pressure, the differential pressure across the injector and thus
the flow is REDUCED with increasing boost - just the opposite of what you
want.  If they've sized the injectors large enough to run properly at
WOT under boost, they're terribly, grossly oversized for idling.
This is worse than you might at first think because flow across an orfice
varies as the square of the differential pressure.  If you know the 
flow F1 at a pressure P1, you can compute the flow F2 at another pressure P2
with the following formula:

F2 == F1 * sqrt(P2/P1)

This holds over a reasonable range of pressures.  A large change in pressure
might edge the velocity in the orfice close to the critical flow, at which
point all computational bets are off.  But you get the idea.

A not-so-obvious related problem is the fact that most injectors' opening
and closing delays change with fuel pressure.  Sometimes significantly.
This stands to reason since the fuel pressure is almost always working 
with the spring to hold the valve shut.

Reference your fuel pressure to whatever the injector discharge port
sees so the pressure across the metering orfice is constant.  JGD]

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 17:26:49 1993
Subject: Trans-Am Special Edition for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5284
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


The car is in Ohio.  I have not seen it.  I have no financial interest in the 
car.  Interested parties will deal directly with the owner, I just do not have 
the phone number right now.  I should have it tomorrow. Respond directly to me 
at phile@pwcs.stpaul.gov as I am not a member of this list (I can be found on 
the autocross list).

1978 Special Edition Trans-Am (Gold)

Mint condition.  Under 31,000 miles.  All original parts including tires.  
T-top.  Four-stick.  400 CID engine with 350 heads (I don't know the 
significance of this, I'm a Lotus guy).  Only 1500 manufactured.  No rust.  
Never seen salt.  Never wrecked or scratched.  $12K, negotiable.

phile@pwcs.stpaul.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!gatech!pwcs.stpaul.gov!phile (Philip J Ethier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 17:36:45 1993
Subject: Howdy, y'all
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5285
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



You know, I've been sitting here reading this newsgroup and it
finally hit me that hey!  I can ask questions in here (duh).  Well,
I have quite a few, but let me give you a bit of background info so
that you'll better know what I'm asking for...

I am a 19 year old first year student here at UCSD, and though I
currently have no declared major I am looking towards a field
involving automotive design.  I am currently doing small personal
projects in an attempt to further my education, but I have hit a
serious dry spot for information.  But recently I found this
newsgroup, and after reading it a few times it has occurred to me
that the people on here have backgrounds in the work I want to
pursue, so I thought that I should pose a few questions.  First of
all, for anybody willing to answer, what sort of educational and
experience backgrounds are common to people who post in here?  I
would like an idea of what I should pursue in order to advance my
education.  Second, could people please post addresses where one
such as myself could order textbooks/research papers/other materials
that have information dealing with the subjects spoken of here?  The
library here really lacks from what I have seen, so I am forced to
look elsewhere.
 
Last, my current project (as I mentioned once in a previous post) is
building a methanol powered (more realistically, M85 due to
availability reasons) 1987 Mustang GT.  It is not for street use,
unless of course I can figure out how to run it as an FFV... and the
main point behind it is for me to LEARN.  I want to understand more
about vehicles, and this is my next stepping stone.  I am hoping
that people on here can help me out with the things I am trying to
learn.  I do not want to be a bother, and would be perfectly willing
to ask questions to specific people in private mail if necessary in
order to avoid cluttering the newsbase, but I really need to find
people of whom I can ask questions.  I have more or less decided that
this is the field I am going to pursue, but in all my research this
is the only place I have found that has people who know what way I
need to go if I hope to achieve anything.  So my question is, are
there people out there who can help me with all my questions?
Believe me, I have tons.  But I do not want to be a burden to
anyone, so please, if there is anyone who wouldn't mind being
inconvenienced by an incredibly inquizzitive future automotive
engineer, please contact me either on here or in mail (mail is
probably best to avoid annoying the uninterested masses).  My
address (though I'm sure it's on the header) is
bkolodzi@sdcc13.ucsd.edu, and will probably change to something else
during the summer, but really that's irrelevant.  But please,
someone out there help me... I'm really lost in this search.

----------
Posted by: emory!sdcc13.ucsd.edu!bkolodzi (Hurdy Gurdy Man )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 17:47:22 1993
Subject: Announcing: Internet Datsun 510 mailing list!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5286
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




	My sysadm has agreed to set up a mailing list for
Datsun 510 owners....for now, just a simple alias on our mail system.
The charter for the list has yet to be written, but will be
something along the lines of "for people interested in Datsun 510s (68-73);
however, discussions about Nissan/Datsun cars with similar components
(L-series motors, IRS, etc) are welcome".

	To suscribe, send e-mail to *me* (dye@lachman.com) with:

1) a valid internet-format return address
2) your interest in 510s, what years you own, etc.
3) If we only get 4-5 people, do you want to do the list anyway

--Ken

-- 
Ken R. Dye				an optimist is a guy		 |
Lachman Technology, Inc., Chicago	that has never had		 | 
(708) 505-9555 x341			much experience			 |
dye@lachman.com							archy	 |

----------
Posted by: emory!lachman.com!dye (Ken R. Dye )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 17:52:34 1993
Subject: Re:  External Oil Pumps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5287
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 So the 1600 Pinto motor used an external oil pump, hmmm? Anybody know of 
other engines that had either belt or electrically-driven oil pumps hung
outside? I have two uses in mind - one being a generator with a busted
internal oil pump that the Onan guy wants lots of money for, the other being
a bypassing/upgrade of the Buick oiling system on the Skylark. For the latter
I think I might want a bit more volume than a pump sized for the 1600; 2X
the journals and the journals being 2X the face area, etc. Definitely need
a mechanical pump for the car, and a good sized one too. Would the 1600
pump be suitable (maybe with some manifolding/orificing) for a poor man's
dry sump scavenge pump? 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 19:23:54 1993
Subject: Re: O2 sensors, M85, stoichiometry 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5288
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Tue, 11 May 93 21:07 EDT
> From:  hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
> 
>

>As I recall (and this is a little foggy) from watching the 100%

>[Automotive Fuels Handbook lists stoich for methanol as 6.45:1 and 
>the best power full throttle mixture of around 4:1.  That fits pretty 
>well to my rule of thumb experience of 3X enrichment over gas.  JGD]

Thanks.....like I said, a little foggy.


>[I can see a couple of problems.  First off, you probably need to 
>do a composite sample on the oxygen sensor.  It is so fast that if you
>sample it only once a revolution and use that value, you'll likely only
>see one cylinder and it could vary significantly from cycle to cycle.
>If you have the CPU cycles, you should sample the sensor several times
>per revolution and run a sliding average.  If you don't have the CPU cycles,
>build an analog low pass filter into the sensor circuit that will average
>over a significant period of time.  JGD]

That explains many things.  I am using the stock analog electronic pieces,
which appear average the signal.  When I hook up to the O2 sensor directly,
I can see the cylinder pulses.  Hmmmm....I wonder....:-).

>[What is the configuration of the injectors and intake?  Is much of the
>intake manifold wetted?  These problems you've described sound exactly
>like the ones I've experienced with throttle body injection.  A whole bunch
>of fuel must be injected to wet the manifold in addition to that needed 
>for acceleration enrichment.  The enrichment wave form looks like a 
>tail pulse.  Sharp rise and a slow decrease to the new steady state 
>value.  Closed loop control is greatly complicated by this delayed
>fuel transport mechanism.  JGD]

It is port fuel injected, the injectors spray right at the base of the
intake valves.  I was hoping not to have any wetting problems.  I currently
do about a 2.5x sharp peak, and then decrease the pulse width to the map
values over a rather short period of time (maybe 8-10 pulses).  I guess I
have the right idea, I just need to keep working at it.  I am trying to
determine whether the peak or the decay should be modified based upon
inputs like the throttle position delta and temperatures.  I have learned
not to attempt closed loop control while this is in progress.

Thanks for you help.

	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 19:28:43 1993
Subject: Re: Higher RPM unstability 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5289
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Team Borg asks:

   [  . . . recounts high rpm cut out on modified 302 . . . ]

   Could be fuel starvation.  I.E. the fuel pump can't keep up or you have a
restriction in the fuel filter.

    I've seen behavior like this one other time, on a 4 cylinder Honda 
Motorcycle.  It was ignition related.  The dwell on the 2 points was very
critical and difficult to set.  Only a few degrees off, and the bike would
behave exactly as described.  
    Since you don't have points, my thought is that the MSD unit is demanding
too much charge/responsiveness out of your coil.  At high rpm, it can not
rebuild a field in the amount of time required for the next spark.
    BTW, I've never found much quality or substance to ACCEL's claims about
their much touted 'super' coils.

----------
Posted by: Gordon Laird CDC 553-2988 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 19:35:28 1993
Subject: Re: Turborcharged Two-Stroke
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5290
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> -> as this engine is a two stroke, it has no engine oil pump that can be
> -> used to supply oil to the turbocharger bearings, so I need to find a
> -> 12 voltelectric
>  How about driving a standard mechanical pump via the alternator shaft?
> The Kent 1600 used in the '70-'71 Pinto is designed for external
> mounting and would cost $30 or so, or you could use any Ford-style
> gerotor set and make up your own housing.

This suggestion suffers from the same problem as the blower idea below:
parasitic power loss. For a top-speed-record attempt, you want ALL the
power (or as much as you can arrange) going to the driveshaft. So run
a total-loss electrical system, maybe use a little bigger battery, and
yes, go with an electric oil pump for the turbo. The extra mass of the 
battery won't affect top speed, just how long it takes to get there. And
it might even help hold the car down a bit...

>  I realize expansion chamber design is very weird, but I have doubts the
> chambers would function normally when restricted by the turbo.  

This is a questionable area. The timing of the pressure waves may not
be affected significantly by the backpressure, but they would be affected
by increased exhaust temperature. However, the normal design of expansion
chambers supports two effects: creation of a supercharging effect by
impinging a positive pressure wave on the exhaust port after the intake
port has closed, forcing some expelled charge back into the cylinder,
and providing an assist to the purging of the cylinder while both ports
are open by impinging a negative pressure wave on the exhaust port at the
right point in the cycle.  The need for the first effect is eliminated 
since you already have supercharging from the turbo. So the point of the
exhaust design becomes more of a question of effective purging of exhaust
gasses from the cylinder, which gets harder due to the backpressure from the
turbo. So an exhaust system design which maximizes the purging effect may
give significant gains.

[I think a series of chambers followed by a turbocharger has a good
possibility of working.  The stinger serves only to provide a pressure
bleed and thus establishes the average pressure in the chamber.  I
proved to myself many years ago that I could achieve the same result
with a long, large diameter stinger as I could with a short, small
diameter stinger.  Anybody remember that funky stinger-out-the-side-
of-the-chamber scheme Sachs or some such company did in the 70s?  If the
convergent cone terminates at the turbo inlet, it is coceivable that the
turbo could provide the backpressure.  The suction and plugging pulses
would function normally and would augment the forced induction.  I'd
expect the chamber dimentions to be different because more plugging than
suction would likely be needed because of the positive intake pressure.
On the other hand, it might be that a lower exhaust port, to make the
power stroke longer, offset by a stronger suction cycle, might also be a
win.

this sounds like a really interesting development project.  JGD]

-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 19:41:22 1993
Subject: Higher RPM unstability
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5291
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> At about 4800-5000 RPM, I suddenly experience a rapid loss of power,
-> surging, and a strange noise (kinda airy).

 From your description it sounds like a possible ignition problem.  Can
you scrounge another distributor and disconnect the MSD?
                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 19:47:30 1993
Subject: Re: Turborcharged Two-Stroke
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5292
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> a big concern because I can always add more batteries.
>->   I am going to attempt to build my own fuel injection system for the

>  For what you're doing, why not just run a simple bypass valve system
>with an electric fuel pump and nozzles in the intake tract?  Move the
>valve by hand to adjust the mixture for maximum power.  That's basically
>how airplanes used to do it.  Toss in a $35 oxygen sensor to make sure
>you don't lean it out too far, and you're in business.  Total cost:
>probably $150 if you buy everything new.

The electric fuel pump and nozzles might work, but I am not sure that 
it would give the control needed for changing engine load and rpm- maybe
you could explain more about how to make such a system work.  Unfortunately,
oxygen an oxygen sensor will not work on a two stroke- there is *always*
oxygen in the exhaust due to short circuiting of the intake charge 
during scavenging, i.e. some of the fresh mixture goes right out the        
exhaust.  I have read of a transient oxygen sensor to sample exhaust gas
during blowdown, but the frequency response of the sensor is such that this
is only feasable at engine speeds below 1500 rpm. 

>-> as this engine is a two stroke, it has no engine oil pump that can be
>-> used to supply oil to the turbocharger bearings, so I need to find a
>-> 12 voltelectric

> How about driving a standard mechanical pump via the alternator shaft?
>The Kent 1600 used in the '70-'71 Pinto is designed for external
>mounting and would cost $30 or so, or you could use any Ford-style
>gerotor set and make up your own housing.

This could be a possibility, but I would have to redo the ignition system.
The end of one of the crankshafts has the generator on it, with the 
ignition pick included on it.  I think it would be easier if I could find
an electric pump- if such a thing exists.

>-> yard in Canada.  For my M.S. thesis, I am developing a turbocharger
>-> system that will utilize expansion chamber exhaust pipes, ice water
>-> intercooling, and electronic fuel injection.

> I realize expansion chamber design is very weird, but I have doubts the
>chambers would function normally when restricted by the turbo.  The
>turbo also aggravates the two stroke's main problem, which is heat.
>Unless you're trying to prove a point with the turbo, I'd strongly
>recommend you use a supercharger instead.  One of the small B&M units
>would work.  You could drive it off the crank or the clutch basket,
>depending on what was easiest.  With the supercharger, you'd still have
>the boost (and even the intercooler) without the heat load of the turbo
>trying to turn the piston into Silly Putty, plus you would be able to
>adjust the port heights for blowdown cooling.  With continuous flow fuel
>injection your gas mileage would go to hell in a handbasket, but for
>something running only a few miles at a time you could live with it.

It is true that two much back pressure in the expansion chamber can       
overheat the pistons, but on a naturally aspirated two-stroke, there
is already back pressure from the size of the oulet pipe.  These are        
typically about one third of the area as the exhaust port, and help   
retain the exhaust pulses in the expansion chamber to assist scavenging.
It is possible to size the outlet pipe larger so that the total back         
pressure does not get too high.

>-> Electromotive system.  I have found a $200 controller based on
>-> Intel's 8051 chip, with on board A/D, digital I/O and a host of other
>-> goodies, maufactered by a company call Blue Earth Research (I think).

> I'd be interested in finding out more about this system.

Don't have the info here, but I'll bring it in tomorrow and post some of the
details.

> You might also get a few comments from the two stroke mailing list:
>2strokes@MicroUnity.com.
>                  

>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

Thank you for your comments.

----------
Posted by: emory!meibm6.cen.uiuc.edu!kh10516 (Kenneth E Hardman)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 19:53:29 1993
Subject: M85 vs. Ethanol
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5293
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                          SUBJECT:  M85 vs. Ethanol
All this talk of M85 and Methanol got me thinking about the guy in TA/FC that
runs Ethanol instead of Methanol.  He's out of Division 5 and I've seen his car
run at our local track ... it's hard to miss, since it has a big corn kernel on
the side! <*grin*>  Also, when he makes a pass, it smells like beer and
bratwursts cooking!

Anyway, I'd think that Ethanol would be less corrosive and easier to work with?
 It would still have an affinity for water (but then it would make a good
cocktail, eh?   Could someone enlighten me as to why Methanol is the fuel
of choice in the alcohol ranks and not Ethanol?

[Ethanol carries less molecular oxygen than methanol (50% vs 34.8), 
has a lower heat of vaporization (0.93 vs 1.17 MJ/kg), a higher boiling
point (78 vs 65 deg C) and a slightly lower specific energy (3.00 vs 3.08).
Given that the costs are not much different and the fact that methanol
does not risk having BATFascists plow tanks through the side of your house 
like pure ethanol does, methanol is the logical choice.  JGD]

-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  More *POWER*!  More *BOOST*!  Urrrrr! Urrrrr!

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 19:59:44 1993
Subject: Re:  Higher RPM unstability
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5294
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have spent some time working with the Edelbrock version of the CAFB.  Its 
not too bad to work with.  I suggest you make yourself a stand-alone 02
sensor ( email me if you need my description ), and tune from the Edelebrock
book.  There is a good 2D graph for primary rods and jets.  I went through
about 12 iterations before I got it about right.  

Are your secondaries opening correctly?  Are you using a double line feed,
or are you counting on internal filling at that high fuel feed level?
It may be that if you have a single feed, your far secondary jet sucks
its bowl empty.  Thus the lack of power.

	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 20:11:09 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5295
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


ITS ALL GOTTA GO.  Blah Blah blah, but its not at the Northeast trade
center, its at my house in Lowell, or perhaps in Tewksbury, MA.

FREE/Cheap stuff


	350 CID Chevy motor, parts there of.  4 bolt short block, on
	an engine stand.  Various bits and pieces, not what you would
	call new.  Take it, pay me for the engine stand if you want that.


        Real, Big drafting desk.  No drafting machine, but this is one
	of those professional units from about 20 years ago.  Sprung
	two axis movement for a 4' * 6' board.  Two drawer 3' * 6'
	desk on the "other side".  Includes some paper, plus keys to 
	the desk.  If you are nice, I'll include the chair I made.
	Make a cheap offer.  You pick it up.


	Trailer kits.  Some of the stuff you need to make a single
	axle trailer.  Ford Fiesta axle, bar stock, channel stock,
	mounted, balanced tires, plus a 55 gallon drum exactly the
	correct size to make fenders.  I have not quite enought stuff
	for 2 trailers, but take what you need.  Look at my finished
	one for ideas.  Single digit prices.  You pick up.


	Wire rope.  Big reel of thick stuff.  Suitable for a crane.
	Stricly Free.  No warrentee, etc.


	3/4" hole, 1/2" bolt concrete anchors.  I have a lot of these.
	I only need a few.  


        Ford 9" rear end.  From a '72 Tbird.  Massive drum brakes,
	two sets of axels, one set of springs.  Not nodular or posi,
	First person with more than $25 ( and a few strong friends )
	takes it.


	The heart of a street rod.  500 CID '72 Caddilac motor and
	related, freshly rebuilt TH400.  Motor not together, but its
	re-assemblable.  Think about an offer.


	Complete Ford Fiesta front end.  Everything that was not part
	of the unibody -- motor, tranny, shafts, brakes, control arms,
	shifter, rack.  Plus about 1000 lbs of other Fiesta parts.  
	cranks, flywheels, cams, pistons, valvetrains.  Bosch
	electrical parts ( yeah, some of the same pieces are on BMWs
	and Mercedes ).  Some glass, a radiator, and a hood.  Some parts 
	free.


	About 1000 lbs worth of Olds parts.  Take a 69 Cutlass
	convertable 2 door, a 76 Cutlass 2 door, and a 82 Cutlass 4
	door, make one car, and you have a mountain of stuff left
	over.  Engine and drivetrain parts mostly.  Cheap-o-rama.
	Two solid BOP TH350s, belt-driven accessories, air cleaners,
	driveshaft, carb., etc.


	Hilti explosive-driven pins.  Free.


Email me.  General terms are 1) you come over and pick it up, 2) pay
by cash
	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

----------
Posted by: emory!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 12 20:17:27 1993
Subject: Re: Corvair comments
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5296
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


It's been a week since the last posting in this thread but I so rarely
get to add anything to this list (I lurk) so I thought I could copy
some text out of a magazine that might be of interest.  There is an
article in this June's Classic Auto Restorer on Corvairs (primarily
the turbocharged ones).

First, Bryan Blackwell (bryan@mitre.org) responded to an earlier
posting about the Corvair's "poor handling" and "really nasty rear-end
behaviour" by noting a change in the '65 to unequal length control
arms in the rear.  The C.A.R. article notes two changes in the '64 model
meant to deal with these problems as well.  

"Suspension changes in the 1964 decreased the car's notorious oversteer
and senstivity to cross winds by adding an anti-roll bar at the front
and a transverse leaf spring spanning the independent swing-axle rear
suspension.  The transverse spring was designed to counteract the
tendency of swing-axles to change camber when cornering hard."

Perhaps of more interest to the readers of this list is:

"The 1964 model year brought further development.  Displacement of all
Corvair engines was increased from 145 to 164 cubic inches by
lengthening the stroke from 2.60 to 2.94 inches.  In turbocharged
form, torque was increased by more than 10 percent, to 232 pounds-feet
at 3200 rpm.  Horsepower remained at 150 bhp, but peak horsepower was
achieved at 400 fewer rpm."

By 1965, things had improved.

"The final generation engine delivered 180 bhp at 4000 rpm and a
thumping 265 pounds-feet of torque at 3200 rpm.  Typical 0-60 mph
acceleration was 9.5 seconds, and the car could hit 115.  Gas mileage
was still over 20 mpg at normal highway speeds."

A couple of other things seemed relevant.  First, while folks were
talking about the Corvair getting light at about 100, it should be
noted that before GM decided on turbocharging it had designed a '61
show car with a Paxton centrifugal blower.  In a similarly equipped
Corvair, Andy Granatelli reached 142 at the Bonneville Salt Flats.  I
know this is probably comparing apples and oranges to some extent but
I think it's telling nonetheless.

The other thing that seemed relevant was the claim that Chevrolet had
planned to discontinue the Corvair once the costs associated with the
major change in 1965 had amortized.  Complaints about the car were not
even registered yet.  Chevrolet just wanted to focus on the Camaro.


At any rate, it's a pretty interesting article.

Richard

beckwith@ils.nwu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!ogun.ils.nwu.edu!beckwith (Richard Beckwith)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 07:17:39 1993
Subject: Re: AC & Heater efficiency
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5297
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article  Peon w/o Email (Eric Youngblood) writes:
>
>Someone posted a reply a while back about how the heater core
>can interfere with the AC system efficiency.  The poster stated
>that many cars are equipt with a vacumm operated valve that shuts
>off the hot water to the heater core when the heater control is off.
>
>Of course, my 77 TA has no valve in the heater core supply hoses so
>a healthy supply of 200 degree water flows through the heater core
>during hot summer weather.  The heater box relies on a damper door
>to route air through the AC evaporator and then to the passenger
>compartment.  Meanwhile the core is radiating its heat to the box
>assembly and interior dash area.  All of this is on the passenger
>side of the firewall so it adds to the heat load the AC must cope with.
>
If the standard heat control valve won't shut it off, go down to the
local auto parts store & get a universal heater control valve. Install
it inline with your heater hose, connect up a cable to the control valve,
and voila' - no hot water when it's not needed.
 
Ted Brooks
 ______________________________________________________________________
| Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are my own, and do not reflect    |
| those of my employer. Advice is free, but you get what you pay for.  |
----------
Posted by: emory!mcnc.org!brooks (Ted Brooks)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 07:46:45 1993
Subject: Howdy, y'all
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5298
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> You know, I've been sitting here reading this newsgroup and it
-> finally hit me that hey!  I can ask questions in here (duh).  Well, I
-> have quite a few, but let me give you a bit of background info so
-> that you'll better know what I'm asking for...

 What you're in is either alt.hotrod or wiz.hotrod.  They gateway into a
"mailing list", which operates by usenet email.  The list is based at
dixie.com, run by John DeArmond, who's a wild and crazy guy.  The list
is/will eventually be a part of Performance Engineering Magazine's
resources.  Most of the people on the list are heavy-duty technoids, and
we're an amazingly friendly and helpful bunch.  


-> education.  Second, could people please post addresses where one such
-> as myself could order textbooks/research papers/other materials

 Basically, you need to sign up for the SAE.  That used to give you a
substantial discount on all sorts of reference material, though in the
last few years the cheap bastards have cut the member discount to a bare
minimum, and in the case of some of the more interesting references,
there's no discount at all.  Still, they're the best single source.
UCSD's engineering department ought to have information on joining.


-> Last, my current project (as I mentioned once in a previous post) is
-> building a methanol powered (more realistically, M85 due to
-> availability reasons) 1987 Mustang GT.  It is not for street use,
-> unless of course I can figure out how to run it as an FFV... and the
-> main point behind it is for me to LEARN.  I want to understand more

 How about leaving the Mustang alone and using a motorcycle?  You can
pick up bent bikes cheap.  If you need more room to work, fabricate a
sidecar - the rec.motorcycles FAQ can give you a few leads on that.
Depending on the year, the bike will be exempt from California smog
checks, take up less room in the shop, and be a whole lot cheaper in
general.  Plus you'll be able to operate it on the road to get a feel of
what your modifications have accomplished, instead of sitting in the
garage going "vroom, vroom" with no smog gestapo papers.


-> about vehicles, and this is my next stepping stone.  I am hoping that
-> people on here can help me out with the things I am trying to learn.
-> I do not want to be a bother,

 The state of the art being as it is, we all have to do a certain amount
of reinventing the wheel.  Don't worry about it.


-> inconvenienced by an incredibly inquizzitive future automotive
-> engineer, please contact me either on here or in mail (mail is

 If you want to *design* as an engineer, as opposed to merely
being an administrator, you're realistically looking at a fairly small
set of job options. A job - any job - as a faceless minion of the Big
Three.  A career designing flat washers or whatever for a Big Three
supplier. Maybe an eventual chance to do real design work at a "small"
company like Cartpillar or Mack. Or... you could go for the glory and
try for one of the big, factory-backed racing teams.

[Dave, Don't forget the US design arms of most of the jap car companies and 
some of the europeans and huge performance aftermarket biz.  How many
vendors do you have in your vendor database?  And there's always room
for more.  Cheap instrumentation of all sorts is a wide open field.
If I had my career to do over again, I'd do my time with one of the big
companies to get grounded and make contacts and then sally forth to
do something neat.  Hmmm, I guess I AM doing something neat right now :-)
but it sure has taken a long time.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 07:53:34 1993
Subject: Re:  External Oil Pumps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5299
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> So the 1600 Pinto motor used an external oil pump, hmmm? Anybody know
-> of other engines that had either belt or electrically-driven oil
-> pumps hung outside?

 The Pinto pump is similar to the Buick, in that one end fits up against
the engine.  It's driven by the distributor shaft.  You could belt-drive
one, but you'd need a faceplate/mounting bracket kit.  You can get them
in England, but I don't have a name or address.  One of the guys in
british.cars or wheeltowheel might know.


-> a bypassing/upgrade of the Buick oiling system on the Skylark.

 What's wrong with the Buick's pump?  Not enough pressure, or not enough
volume?  At least you don't have an external drive belt to break or
hoses to leak.  If you're desperate for volume, will one of the
long-rotor pumps for the V6 work?
                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 07:59:28 1993
Subject: reply for 79 monte parts
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5300
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Would the person with the address
    mathcs.emory.du!NWILMART%castor.UUCP
please resend your message to me using the address
    tkratzer@attmail.com

I tried to send direct mail, but it bounced.

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnewsf.cb.att.com!tkratzer (troy.d.kratzer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 11:59:55 1993
Subject: THIS INTERESTING PLACE....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5301
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


X-News: vaxc alt.hotrod:2126

>From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
>Subject:Interesting Mustang place
>Date: Sun, 09 May 93 00:50:25 GMT
>Message-ID:<9d7vww_@dixie.com>

>I was out looking for Knardly parts (68 plymouth fury) today and stumbled 
>into a nifty place kinda out in the boonies.  Called the "Mustang Farm"
>(404 606 0305) run by a fellow named Lee Mathias, it deals only with
>mustangs from 64 to 73 vintage.  


I was just reading this and thought hey...
I wonder..
Any of you guys out there in the states know anything about the
best car in my life??

are there many minis around??
(i know there are a few clubs spattered about but are they common??...
or just plain unheard of??)
anybody read "miniworld"????
LUV....E.M.

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 12:10:02 1993
Subject: Re:  External Oil Pumps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5302
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>  What's wrong with the Buick's pump?  Not enough pressure, or not enough
> volume?  At least you don't have an external drive belt to break or
> hoses to leak.  If you're desperate for volume, will one of the
> long-rotor pumps for the V6 work?

 The only thing wrong with the stock Buick -pump- is that eventually the gears
wear into the alloy body and you lose some presure. There're shim plates you
can buy to give a fresh hard wear surface, no biggie. However the pump is the
least of the wierdness.

 You start off with about a foot and a half of 1/2" suction run right off the 
pan. This can be a big limitation on oil draw, especially for thicker oil.
The run is cast into the lower passenger side of the block and can't be
enlarged more than another 1/16" or so. Contrast this with a Chevy type pump 
which sits right above the oil sump inside the engine. You can get bigger
pickup tubes and bore out the run and radius the right angle bends but you're
still looking at a pretty inefficient arrangement.

 Then after oil leaves the pump, you have a pretty tortuous oil distribution
system. This is easier to deal with by extra pressure probably than to try
bypassing the craziness. Some Buick aftermarket places sell lots of oil 
system doodads for dealing with known problems - oil squirters for the
distributor gear, bypass kits to route oil directly to the driver's side
lifter gallery and top end (allegedly subject to complete oil starvation
if the cam bearing spins because it passes -through- the front cam bearing)
and so on. 

 So I'm looking at the dry sump stuff in Summit and Jeg's catalogs and 
gagging over $400 price tags on pretty little red and blue anodized
pumps. I'd like to dig up a junkyard equivalent as I'm sure you can 
understand. Hmmm. I wonder how well a power steering pump would work.
Gobs o' pressure but too little flow?

 Still need a source for electric oil pumps too.

 The

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 12:26:11 1993
Subject: more Corvair comments
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5303
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  hotrod@dixie.com [Richard Beckwith] writes:
(some matl edited...)
>...article in this June's Classic Auto Restorer on Corvairs (primarily
>the turbocharged ones).  First, Bryan Blackwell (bryan@mitre.org) responded
>to an earlier posting about the Corvair's "poor handling" and "really nasty
>rear-end behaviour" by noting a change in the '65 to unequal length control
>arms in the rear.  The C.A.R. article notes two changes in the '64 model
>meant to deal with these problems as well:
>"Suspension changes in the 1964 decreased the car's notorious oversteer
> and senstivity to cross winds by adding an anti-roll bar at the front
> and a transverse leaf spring spanning the independent swing-axle rear
> suspension.  The transverse spring was designed to counteract the
> tendency of swing-axles to change camber when cornering hard."

	These changes by Chevrolet were mimicing the work by mostly-
	California hot-rodders who added both the front sway bar, and
	the transverse leaf spring to 60-63 corvairs to improve the
	handling.  These techniques were probably borrowed from similar
	efforts made to early VW bugs that had swing axle rears ends.  The
	products were made by EMPI as well as others, and they sold them
	for VWs and for Corvairs.

>Perhaps of more interest to the readers of this list is:
> "The 1964 model year brought further development.  Displacement of all
> Corvair engines was increased from 145 to 164 cubic inches by
> lengthening the stroke from 2.60 to 2.94 inches.  In turbocharged
> form, torque was increased by more than 10 percent, to 232 pounds-feet
> at 3200 rpm.  Horsepower remained at 150 bhp, but peak horsepower was
> achieved at 400 fewer rpm."

	In the non turbo motors (164 cid, 95 and 110 bhp gross options)
	the (gross) torque went from about 132 ft-lbs (for the 145 cid motor)
	to 154 to 160 ft-lbs (gross) respectively.  With no change in car mass,        this dramatically improved the performance.

>By 1965, things had improved.
> "The final generation engine delivered 180 bhp at 4000 rpm and a
> thumping 265 pounds-feet of torque at 3200 rpm.  Typical 0-60 mph
> acceleration was 9.5 seconds, and the car could hit 115.  Gas mileage
> was still over 20 mpg at normal highway speeds."

	0-60 in 9.5 seconds is probably an over estimate.  Closer to
	10 seconds is more realistic.  The 140 bhp version (non-turbo)
	would get to 60 in about 10.5 to 11 seconds.

>A couple of other things seemed relevant.  First, while folks were talking
>about the Corvair getting light at about 100, it should be noted that 
>before GM decided on turbocharging it had designed a '61 show car with a
>Paxton centrifugal blower.  In a similarly equipped Corvair, Andy Granatelli
>reached 142 at the Bonneville Salt Flats.  I know this is probably comparing
>apples and oranges to some extent but I think it's telling nonetheless.

	There is a collection of corvair road tests that were compiled into
	a book:  'Corvair 1959-1969' or something like that, Brookland
	Publ. I think, that has a road test of a similar, and possibly the
	very same car.  It was a 1961 2dr coupe, with a 145 cid engine (in
	98 bhp form, with the hotter camshaft).  A Paxton supercharger was
	added, blowing thru a box-sealed carb.  I think the boost was limited
	for the road test car, as opposed to the Bonneville model.  The road
	car did 0-60 in 10.6 seconds, which is quite good give the smaller
	engine.  This performance figure is just about the same as the 0-60
	for 62-64 turbo (Spyder) corvairs.

>The other thing that seemed relevant was the claim that Chevrolet had planned >to discontinue the Corvair once the costs associated with the major change in >1965 had amortized.  Complaints about the car were not even registered yet.
>Chevrolet just wanted to focus on the Camaro.  At any rate, it's a pretty
>interesting article.   -Richard,      beckwith@ils.nwu.edu

	I have read, and probably believe, that the corvair would have been
	discontinued in 1965 or 1966, but that GM/Chevy hung on to the car
	to prove a point to the public that it was a good car and that they
	would not discontinue the car line in the face of the lawsuits that
	made it to the courtroom at the time.  This was also the time-frame
	for Ralph Nader's book "Unsafe at Any Speed", with the corvair
	playing the major role in Chapter 1 (but not a major player elsewhere
	in the book.)  Chevy also evidently curtailed production of the car
	(I think at the Willow Run, Michigan plant) intentionally and not
	due to a lack of demand (I don't know if this is really true, but it
	makes sense in light of GM's decision to keep selling the car).


----------
Posted by: emory!athena.mit.edu!kdrolt (Kenneth D Rolt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 12:41:45 1993
Subject: Aftermarket Catalytic Converters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5304
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Has anyone out there tried an aftermarket catalytic converter such as the 
one made by Thrush.  Are there any others on the market?  Do you you feel 
they're worth the investment (~$100)?

Thanks,
Todd

----------
Posted by: emory!lims02.lerc.nasa.gov!svraust (TODD AUSTINSON)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 12:46:25 1993
Subject: Re:  External Oil Pumps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5305
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>> External Oil Pumps

-> a bypassing/upgrade of the Buick oiling system on the Skylark.

> What's wrong with the Buick's pump?  Not enough pressure, or not enough
>volume?  At least you don't have an external drive belt to break or
>hoses to leak.  If you're desperate for volume, will one of the
>long-rotor pumps for the V6 work?

Well, according to Mike Tomazeski (sp?) of TA Performance, the stock oiling
system needs some help, but he uses a fairly stock oil pump in his 9.50
Sportwagon and recommends only minor work to upgrade the system.  (Completely
aside, but you should see that wagon!  5 ft wheel stands and 140+ mph in the
1/4!)

In the tech sessions at the GS Nationals, Mike talked alot about how they
rework some of the oil galleries and change the way the oil is routed through
the block.  I was kind of lost, since I sold my big block car before I had a
chance to really tear it apart and see how things worked.  Anyway, the main
concern seemed to be:

1.  To supply enough oil to the cam bearings in a high HP application
2.  To keep the pressure drop to a minimum at the back of the block.
3.  To keep the drag from the oil pump from chewing up the cam gear.

In regards to #3, the "high volume" kits for the street were NOT recommended
for that very reason.  He said that with a minor bit of rework to the oil
passages and rerouting a couple things, you can do just fine using the stock
oil pump without killing cam and distributor gears.  If I remember right, he
has a kit to do that in his catalog.  Every year that I hear Mike at the
Nationals, I gain some more respect about what he knows about the Buick oiling
system.... then again, anyone who makes that kind of HP and torque has HAD to
learn, via the school of hard knocks!  Tales of broken camshafts and scored
cranks litter his talks!

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... if Darth Vader drove a Buick ..."




----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 18:02:50 1993
Subject: Ignition Coils
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5313
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
|> Team Borg asks:
|> 
|>    [  . . . recounts high rpm cut out on modified 302 . . . ]
|> 
|>    Could be fuel starvation.  I.E. the fuel pump can't keep up or you have a
|> restriction in the fuel filter.
|> 
|>     I've seen behavior like this one other time, on a 4 cylinder Honda 
|> Motorcycle.  It was ignition related.  The dwell on the 2 points was very
|> critical and difficult to set.  Only a few degrees off, and the bike would
|> behave exactly as described.  
|>     Since you don't have points, my thought is that the MSD unit is demanding
|> too much charge/responsiveness out of your coil.  At high rpm, it can not
|> rebuild a field in the amount of time required for the next spark.
|>     BTW, I've never found much quality or substance to ACCEL's claims about
|> their much touted 'super' coils.
|> 
|> ----------
|> Posted by: Gordon Laird CDC 553-2988 

This may be an FAQ, but what would be a good coil to use?  One car (the RR) has 
the mopar perf electronic ignition, which I plan on upgrading to the "chrome" 
control box.  The Corvair has an MSD 5 with a Mallory coil (the funny looking 
one), and I've had problems with the engine not turning many RPM's, though I 
suspect this is fuel, not ignition, related, as the engine will rev unloaded to 
7,000.


------
Bryan Blackwell bryan@mitre.org (703) 883 7329

'65 Corvair, '66 E-type, '69 Road Runner
If you have to ask the question, you won't understand the answer
------

----------
Posted by: "Bryan Blackwell"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 18:09:11 1993
Subject: Re: Turbocharger oiling
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5314
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <579v9+#@dixie.com> you wrote:

[ ]

: Anyway, when we first fired it, oil was blowing out the exhaust side.
: Oil pressure on startup is around 60-80 psi, depending.  The fellow who
: sold us the turbocharger said that the oil pressure is too high, and that
: is causing it to blow past the seal.  The problem does seem to get better
: when the idle oil pressure drops to 20-40 psi.  Problem is, last night
: when driving, we noticed a little smoke (oil and gasoline since I think we
: are a bit rich on the top end).  Is the smoke only because of the high oil
: pressures at high RPM, or is the turbocharger in need of a new seal?

[ ]

: Thomas Brunner
: Graduate Research Assistant, University of Illinois Autolab
: tabg2553@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

First check the oil drain. It should be > 3/4" tube with no tight
bends. It must drain above the sump oil level. (The drain must
never be submerged. And yes, I'm assuming a wet sump.) 

Next, if the carb setup is drawthrough (carb upstream of the turbo),
check that the turbo is usable for this application. The compressor
side seal needs to handle a vacuum.

I've never had a problem with a turbo that routinely sees 80+ psi
oil pressure. If the drain setup and compressor seal type are ok,
then check the seals.

---
Norb Brotz                Cray Research Park    Internet: nbrotz@palm.cray.com
Sr. Programmer/Analyst    655F Lone Oak Drive   UUCP:     uunet!cray!nbrotz
Software Division         Eagan, Mn. 55121      phone:    (612) 683-5698

----------
Posted by: emory!palm.cray.com!nbrotz (Norb Brotz)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu May 13 18:13:10 1993
Subject: Re: THIS INTERESTING PLACE....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5308
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

1275 Coopers are bitchin!  Absolutely no doubt about it! Like to have one
to go along with my other toys.  They are around and I think well appreciated
by many.Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu May 13 18:13:25 1993
Subject: Mustang List
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5309
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hey guys,

	sorry to bug you about this, but does anyone know if the mustang
list is still functioning.  I tried to subscribe, but no reponse.  Any help
is much appreciated.

Karl
karls@eru.ericsson.se
proud owner of a '93 5.0 LX

----------
Posted by: emory!erusunsrv3.ericsson.se!karls (Karl Siebert)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu May 13 18:37:57 1993
Subject: Jacobs Ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5310
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a 79 T-Bird with a 351 Windsor.  The car has 60,000 miles on it and
I am considering putting on a Jacobs ignition system.  They call it the Team
setup.

Does anyone have any info on this system?

I'm not after a fast car (Too Old for that) what I want to do is improve
mileage, cold starts and overall performance.  

I imagine this would also help me pass emissions more easily.

Any kind of feed back would be appreciated - Thanks

----------
Posted by: emory!ccsua.ctstateu.edu!parys
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu May 13 18:38:07 1993
Subject: RE: M85 vs. Ethanol
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5312
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

There once was an article in the Wasshington Post about 
farmers and  ethanol.  It seems if you use ethanol just for 
fuel :-) you don't have to pay taxes.  The farmer that was 
interviewed substituted ethanol for diesel.

Does this seem right?

I could grow the corn....:-)

DIRK

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu May 13 18:38:13 1993
Subject: Re: M85 vs. Ethanol
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5311
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>Anyway, I'd think that Ethanol would be less corrosive and easier to work with?
> It would still have an affinity for water (but then it would make a good
>cocktail, eh?  
I use to supervise production at an ethanol plant.  Although I never tried it,
some of the workers said that the 200 proof mixed 50/50 with water tasted
just like an extremely good quality vodka.
>Could someone enlighten me as to why Methanol is the fuel
>of choice in the alcohol ranks and not Ethanol?

>Given that the costs are not much different and the fact that methanol
>does not risk having BATFascists plow tanks through the side of your house 
>like pure ethanol does, methanol is the logical choice.  JGD]

The BATF is very careful that only when pure ethonal is sold it is only to
a bonded purchaser.  The 200 proof that we sold to terminals for mixing
with gasoline was denatured with 5% gasoline so that people couldn't
drink it.  The 200 proof that was sold for industrial uses was denatured
with 5% methanol.  The plant I worked at didn't sell any alchohol for
consumption.
Mark W. Blunier
mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu May 13 18:39:01 1993
Subject: Re: Howdy, y'all
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5306
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> -> education.  Second, could people please post addresses where one such
> -> as myself could order textbooks/research papers/other materials
> 
>  Basically, you need to sign up for the SAE.  That used to give you a
> substantial discount on all sorts of reference material, though in the
> last few years the cheap bastards have cut the member discount to a bare
> minimum, and in the case of some of the more interesting references,
> there's no discount at all.  Still, they're the best single source.
> UCSD's engineering department ought to have information on joining.
 
I'm not sure if UCSD has an SAE student chapter.  You can call SAE
headquarters in Warrendale, Pa at 412-776-4841 to find out if they do,
and who to contact there, and if they don't they should be able to tell you
how to go about joinging (think they'll send you an application).
Competing in SAE student design competition is a great way to learn,
and you get to build race cars with other peoples' money :).

> -> Last, my current project (as I mentioned once in a previous post) is
> -> building a methanol powered (more realistically, M85 due to
> -> availability reasons) 1987 Mustang GT.  It is not for street use,
> -> unless of course I can figure out how to run it as an FFV... and the
> -> main point behind it is for me to LEARN.  I want to understand more
 
What is the intended purpose of the 'Stang?  If you do plan to run it
on the street in CA, don't forget that all of your modifications must be
CARB approved or exempted.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Thu May 13 18:39:06 1993
Subject: Re: M85 vs. Ethanol
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5307
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>[Ethanol carries less molecular oxygen than methanol (50% vs 34.8), 
>has a lower heat of vaporization (0.93 vs 1.17 MJ/kg), a higher boiling
>point (78 vs 65 deg C) and a slightly lower specific energy (3.00 vs 3.08).
>Given that the costs are not much different and the fact that methanol
>does not risk having BATFascists plow tanks through the side of your house 
>like pure ethanol does, methanol is the logical choice.  JGD]

	How about "denatured" ethanol, or perhaps isopropanol?  The latter
isn't corrosive.  Don't know about the O2 content, but it makes a FINE
substitute for water in water injection systems :-).

[I have only heard this second hand but I understand that the BATFascists
get excited about even denatured ethanol in large quantities because of
the relative ease of de-denaturing.  For example, I used to de-denature
Fisher Scientific's denatured ethanol by passing it through an activated
charcoal column.  We used the ethanol for cleaning high impedance nuclear
detector electronics and the denaturant (gasoline and some complex organic
substance that I can't remember the name of) left residue.  It was cheaper
to filter than pay the booze tax.  I've never seen isopropanol mentioned
as a motor fuel.  Wonder why?  JGD]

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 19:48:43 1993
Subject: Cheap Computer
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5315
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

To those interested in a cheap computer that could possibly be used for
fuel injection:

Blue Earth Research manufactures fairly powerful computers that fit in your
hand.  I am going to attempt to use one of these for electronic fuel 
injection for my turbocharged two stroke project.  Specifications follow:

Micro 440e:  ($200)
  - based on Intel 8051 chip, programmable in machine language or on-board
    basic, though basic is probably not fast enough for fuel injection
  - 32k RAM, 32k EPROM
  - 3 16-bit timers
  - duplex serial port
  - 12 digital I/O lines
  - 8 channel 8-bit 0-5 volt A/D converter
  - 5 volt regulator

Expansion Modules for 440e:
  - I/O expansion- 24 digital I/O lines -- $79
  - Memory expansion- 128kx8 SRAM -- $109
  - 4 channel 12-bit 0-5volt A/D converter --$119

Micro 485:   ($300)
  - 8051 chip
  - 128k RAM, 32k EPROM, 1k EEPROM
  - 4 channel 12-bit 0-5 volt A/D converter
  - RS-422/485 communications
  - 27 digital I/O lines
  
The 485 is has more 'stuff', but is non-expandable as the 440e is.  I will 
probably start with a 440e because it is more flexible, and I can forsee 
needing more than 4 analog inputs.
   
Manufacture's address: 165 West Lind Ct.  Mankato,MN 56001-0400  (507)387-4001

   

----------
Posted by: emory!meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu!kh10516 (Kenneth E Hardman)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 13 19:59:46 1993
Subject: Re: Mustang List
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5316
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The classic list is though I haven't seen any recent posts.
Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 08:08:11 1993
Subject: Ball Joint Stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5317
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I got the ball joint sleeves I ordered from Coleman Racing the other
day, and thought I would post the dimensions for ball joints that can
be used with them.

They make three different sleeves which are threaded for screw-in
ball joints.  They make one sleeve which is straight and one inch high
for the K772 ball joint.  And two sleeves for the K727 ball joint,
both one inch high, one straight, and one with a stepped shoulder.
They also have a sleeve for a K6141 ball joint, but I haven't seen
one of these.  The price on the sleeves is $7.80 for all but the
stepped sleeve, which cost $9.50.  I had them shipped UPS COD, add
another $10.

The K727 ball joint is supposed to used in a '63-64 Chrysler Imperial,
and the K772 is another Chrysler application.  The sleeve for the
K772 is also supposed to fit a K719, never saw one of those either.
The K6141 has some GM application.  Seems it has a 10 deg taper
instead of the 7 deg used on the others.  I read somewhere that the
SAE standard for all ball joints and tie rods was 7 deg, or 0.125 "
per 1 " length, but that source was from 1977.

Here's an ASCII drawing and dimensions from the two ball joints that
I looked at.





                      ______   _________________________________
                     |______|                                 |
                     |______|                                 |
    D _____________  |______|  _____________________________  |
                     /      \                             |   |
                    /        \                            |   |
                   /          \                           |   |
    C __________  /____________\  _____________________   |   |
                  |            |                     |    |   |
              ____|____________|____   ___________   |    |   e
             |                      |           |    |    d   |
    B _____  |                      |           |    c    |   |
             |                      |           b    |    |   |
             |______________________|   _____   |    |    |   |
    A ----  |________________________|  ___a____|____|____|___|_____



            TRW    Moog            TRW   Moog
           10171N (K727)         10173N (K772)

      A   2.110 " X 2.2?? "     1.900 " X 2.125 "
      B   1.985 " dia           1.815 " dia
      C   0.890 " dia           0.785 " dia
      D   0.755 " dia           0.675 " dia
      a   0.600 "               0.310 "
      b   1.105 "               1.670 "
      c   1.505 "               2.140 "
      d   2.635 "               3.045 "
      e   3.805 "               4.200 "

      $   36.75                 23.10   (from Coleman)


The dimension A is a sort of square flange, so you can torque the
thing to the recommended 120 ft-lb.

The sleeve I bought is for the K772 and is 1 " high and 2.375 " dia.


Coleman machine Inc.
N1597 US-41
Menominee MI 49858
(906) 863-7883

----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 08:14:07 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5318
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have an 89 Taurus with the 3.0 V6.

Don't get nervous. I DONT want to discuss stock cars.
I would like to know if anyone out there has attempted to hotrod this
engine.

I can upgrade the suspension and tires easily.

I could probably go for a freer flowing exhaust system.  Headers are out.
I could make tube headers but they would be heating up hoses, ac etc.
All i have found for the engine is a K&N air filter, which does seem to help 
breathing a bit.

I know that noone is making speed parts for this engine but has anyone tried
anything with the Fuel Inj system, cams, heads,etc?

How about supercharging? This would be expensive but feasible, it just
looks like the underhood real estate is very crowded.

tom muscarello
muscarel@bert.eecs.uic.edu
csctjm@hawk.depaul.edu

----------
Posted by: Thomas Muscarello 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 12:40:25 1993
Subject: '79 Camaro subframe connectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5319
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I bought a '79 Camaro for my first attempt at a econo bracket race car.
I'm looking at different subframe connectors to support the unibody,
to prevent quarter panel ripples under torque.

Anyone have any advice about using bolt-ons vs. weld-ons? I've heard that
some bolt-on models will wallow the holes out after a while.

I was considering bolt-ons since I don't have a welder, but I could
buy one I suppose. I did some welding in high-school metal shop,
but that's the extent of my welding experience.
--
Greg

----------
Posted by: emory!moxie.hou.tx.us!hackney (Greg Hackney)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 12:49:05 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5320
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Posted by: emory!lims02.lerc.nasa.gov!svraust (TODD AUSTINSON)
>
> Has anyone out there tried an aftermarket catalytic converter such as the
> one made by Thrush.  Are there any others on the market?  Do you you feel
> they're worth the investment (~$100)?
>
> Thanks,
> Todd

When i improved the exhaust system on my ALFA sedan i removed the catalytic
converter.  It was a monster, weighed a lot, had small inlet and outlet, and
flowed in a bizarre pattern. My converterless exhaust system ran straight from
the header to a rear Ansa muffler.  Instant power, nice note.  I passed
all our state emission tests with no problem.  (the car doesn't have nany
of the other pollution crap either.)  Last year they started a visual
inspection and i had to put the converter back EVEN THOUGH I PASSED THE
SNIFFER TEST.  I got a cat from Shankle.  It had decent sized inlet and
outlet. It doesn't weigh much at all. Best part is exhaust flows straight
through,  You can look through it.  It has a screen containing catalyst
coating.  It is small, allows me to pass visual test, & has NOT affected
the car's power in any noticeable way.  The thing cost about $100.  It
did make the car run cleaner.  You can find other similar things in catalogs
such as Summit.
An aside:
The mopes at the test facility think that the FI intake with its air horns,
and K&N filters are "dual carbs".  (They said it.)  When they start looking
for the air pump as part of visual inspection, which i'm sure they will do,
i will tell them that the mechanical FI pump is the air pump.

tom muscarello
muscarel@bert.eecs.uic.edu
csctjm@hawk.depaul.edu

----------
Posted by: Thomas Muscarello 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 13:04:30 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5321
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I tried posting this to the italian cars list.  Supposedly it got
through but i don't know if that list is alive anymore.
I am posting to hotrod list also because it is about hotrodding (even though
it deals with a non-US engine). Maybe somebody can help.

I promise to post on my 302 Z28 and 69 AMX 390 projects later on.

____________________________________________________________
I am at a point in planning my summer work on the Alfa sedan and need
some info from all the knowledgeable gearheads out there on the net -

I am now running a 2.0 engine with a few mods. Exhaust flows through tube
headers and a bigger than stock pipe, then through a nice free flow
see through catalytic converter (for our state EPA) and finally out a rear
ANSA resonator.  I have a Shankle Quadraflow on in place of the stock
airbox.  The distributor is electronic and i get nice spark.  Compression 
ratio is stock 9.0:1.

Fuel injection is stock mechanical SPICA right now.
the engine has stock cams, though i will replace  them this summer.   

HERE IS WHERE I NEED HELP:
Does anyone know of a bolt on supercharger (SUPERCHARGER not Turbocharger)
setup for this engine?  There seems to be room in the engine compartment
of the sedan. Surely someone in UK or OZ should know of something.
The engine has only about 11,000 miles on it and is very strong. (That is 
original miles. It is a 79 and is brand new.  Too many cars - not enough
time.) I should be able to boost the engine a bit.  9.0:1 CR and aluminum
heads should take this.  I can always get a FI unit that flows better from
Norman racing.
The 5 speed and transaxle should take more power.

If anyone knows of anything please respond to the list or to me personally.

Thanks.

Tom Muscarello
muscarel@bert.eecs.uic.edu
csctjm@hawk.depaul.edu

----------
Posted by: Thomas Muscarello 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 13:42:27 1993
Subject: Re: Jacobs Ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5322
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I have a 79 T-Bird with a 351 Windsor.  The car has 60,000 miles on it and
> I am considering putting on a Jacobs ignition system.  They call it the Team
> setup.
> Does anyone have any info on this system?
 
Haven't tried it, but I did try Jacobs plug wires on a friends 327...
They were great until the first time he changed the plugs, when he found
the insulation to have become hard and brittle and basically shattered when
he tried to pull the wires off the plugs.

> I'm not after a fast car (Too Old for that) what I want to do is improve
> mileage, cold starts and overall performance.  
 
Personally, I like the MSD 6A series.  I don't have any data on actual power
and milage improvements, but I did observe much better cold starting with
the MSD than without.

> I imagine this would also help me pass emissions more easily.
 
Probably not.  Ignition shouldn't affect CO very much at all, and unless
your current system is just in really bad shape, you shouldn't see much of a
difference in HC.


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 13:49:53 1993
Subject: Re:  Jacobs Ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5323
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I read an article on the Jacobs ignition system in Grassroots Motorsports 
Magazine.  It was given high marks and should achieve your stated goals.

Keith Kucera

kkucera@sun06.mtgy.gtegsc.com

----------
Posted by: Keith Kucera 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 13:54:28 1993
Subject: Re: THIS INTERESTING PLACE....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5324
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>1275 Coopers are bitchin!  Absolutely no doubt about it! Like to have one
>to go along with my other toys.  They are around and I think well appreciated
>by many.Mike
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)




yea too right!!!!!

I'm thinking about saving all my pennies for a 1380 twin cam conversion
for my '80 clubman....
Major trouser trauma!!!!!
Your underwear won't know what hit it!!!
0-60 in about 6.5 secs..........from a mini!!!!

Is the mini popular in the states???

----------
Posted by: 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 14:01:29 1993
Subject: Re:  External Oil Pumps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5325
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Fiestas have, and still do use external oil pumps.  Want some?  This is
exactly the type of thing I am currently giving away.

	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 15:40:51 1993
Subject: Administrivia
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5326
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

It's that time of year again.  School's out and accounts are going away.
Please, pretty please, if your account is going away for the summer,
please unsubscribe to the list rather than just letting mail bounce.
To do that, send mail to hotrod-request@dixie.com and on the subject
line say "drop your@address".

The list will be down from now until Sunday night.  I'm headed to the 
University of Central Florida to speak at the SAE Mini-Baja Competition
Awards Banquet.  Should be fun.  

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance cars?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Whadda ya call the big sore on the butt of the US?  A Hilliaroid.

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 15:54:52 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-18*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5327
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. I am also starting to receive 
information directly from TNN (The Nashville Network) and am very 
grateful to them for their help. A special thanks to Dan Jones for 
passing along ESPN's racing schedule. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE     TIME(Eastern)  NETWORK

This Week In NASCAR, San Diego (T)    5/14     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
INDYCAR, FINAL PRE-QUAL. PRACTICE (L) 5/14     3:00-4:00PM      ESPN
Prime Time Motorsports                5/14     7:00-7:30PM      HTS*
Countdown To Indy (recap of today)    5/14     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/15     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
FORMULA 1, BARCELONA, SPAIN (T)       5/15     4:00-6:00AM      ESPN
World Of Speed & Beauty (S. Nationals)5/15     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (starting problems)5/15     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, POLE DAY(?)  5/15     12:00-2:30PM     ABC
Winners (Sammy Swindell)              5/15     1:30-2:00PM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                     5/15     2:00-2:30PM      DISC
Truckin' USA                          5/15     2:00-2:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today (Live from Mid-South Natnls5/15     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    5/15     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
COPPER WORLD CLASSIC, PHOENIX (T)     5/15     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
MotorWeek '93 (Supra & BMW 318i)      5/15     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
SpeedWeek                             5/15     10:30-11:00PM    ESPN
Indy 500 Summary (1st day time trials)5/16     12:00-12:30AM    ESPN
NASCAR SOUTHWEST, SONOMA (T)          5/16     12:30-2:00AM     ESPN
SpeedWeek                             5/16     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Motoworld                             5/16     3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
Indy 500 Summary (1st day time trials)5/16     3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
INDYCAR, FINAL PRE-QUAL. PRACTICE (T) 5/16     4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
Glory Days                            5/16     5:30-6:00AM      ESPN
Legends Of The Brickyard (1982)       5/16     6:00-6:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          5/16     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Cycle World                           5/16     9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Trucks & Tractor Power                5/16     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Sammy Swindell)              5/16     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    5/16     10:30-11:00AM    HTS*
NHRA Today (Live from Mid-South Natnls5/16     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Movie: Bullitt                        5/16    10:35AM-1:05PM    TBS
Inside Winston Cup                    5/16     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay (L)                           5/16    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
ASA, NASHVILLE MOTOR SPEEDWAY(L)      5/16     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 2ND DAY (L)  5/16     3:00-4:00PM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, SEARS POINT (L)          5/16     4:00-7:00PM      ESPN
Winners (Sammy Swindell)              5/16     4:30-5:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    5/16     5:00-5:30PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (starting problems)5/16     5:30-6:00PM      TNN
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (L)5/16     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    5/16     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
COPPER WORLD CLASSIC, PHOENIX (T)     5/16     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           5/16     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine                    5/16     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks & Tractor Power                5/16    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer                           5/16    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA                          5/17     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (S. Nationals)5/17     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
Indy 500 Summary (2nd day time trials)5/17     1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T)5/17     1:00-2:00AM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, SEARS POINT (T)          5/17     3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/17     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 2ND DAY (T)  5/17     1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
This Week On Pit Road                 5/17     5:00-5:30PM      HTS*
Countdown to Indy (recap of today)    5/17     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/18     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Danny Sullivan5/18     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Indy 500 Summary (2nd day time trials)5/18     2:00-2:30AM      ESPN
Movie: Le Mans                        5/18     4:00-6:00AM WNUV (Balt.)
Speed Racer                           5/18     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Indy:A Race For Heroes (A.J.)         5/18     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
Countdown to Indy (recap of today)    5/18     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/19     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           5/19     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (F1, Spain)            5/19     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
Countdown to Indy (recap of today)    5/19    11:30PM-12:00AM   HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/20     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Movie: Grand Prix                     5/20     1:00-4:00AM WNUV (Balt.)
Speed Racer                           5/20     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
WINSTON CUP, SEARS POINT (T)          5/20     1:00-3:00PM      ESPN
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Emo)          5/20     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Indy:A Race For Heroes                5/20     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
Checkered Flag (Sonoma)               5/20     5:00-5:30PM      ESPN
MotorWeek '93 (Supra & BMW 318i)      5/20     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Prime Time Motorsports                5/20     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR, Charlotte (L)    5/20    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
Countdown to Indy (recap of Thursday) 5/21     12:00-12:30AM    HTS*
AMA SUPERCROSS, IRVING (T)            5/21     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/21     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             5/21     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/21     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
NASCAR SOUTHWEST, SONOMA (T)          5/21     1:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Countdown to Indy (recap of today)    5/21     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE(L)  5/22     7:30-10:30PM     TNN
SpeedWeek                             5/22     10:30-11:00PM    ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 3RD DAY (L)  5/22     5:00PM        ESPN,TSN
FORMULA 1, MONTE CARLO, MONACO (?)    5/23     9:20AM           TSN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (L)                5/23     1:00-3:00PM      TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (L)  5/23     4:00PM           ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (T)  5/24     12:00AM          TSN
BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (?)               5/29     TBA              TBA
SpeedWeek                             5/29     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
RaceDay (L)                           5/30    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
USAC MIDGETS, VENTURA (L)             5/30     12:00AM          ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS 500 (L)                  5/30    11:00AM-3:30PM  ABC,CTV
WINSTON CUP, WORLD 600, CHARLOTTE(L)  5/30     4:30PM           TBS
RaceDay Update (L)                    5/30     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           5/30     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
IMSA GTP, LIME ROCK (L)               5/31     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (L)                   6/5      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/6     11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                6/6      12:00PM          TNN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (L)                6/6      1:00-3:00PM      ABC
SCCA TRANS-AM, COLUMBUS (T)           6/6      1:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (SD)               6/6     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (T)                6/7      2:30AM           TSN
ARCA, POCONO (L)                      6/12     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            6/12     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MYRTLE BEACH (L)            6/12     5:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               6/13     12:30PM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (L)       6/13     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
IMSA, MID-OHIO (?)                    6/13     TBA              TBA
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (L)               6/13     3:00-5:30PM    ABC,TSN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     3:25-4:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T)6/13     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (SD)              6/13    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (T)       6/14     12:00-2:00AM     ESPN
IHRA SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)    6/19     1:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE (T) 6/19     3:30-5:30PM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/19     8:00PM           ESPN
LEMANS, START (?)                     6/19     TBA              TBA
RaceDay (L)                           6/20    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
LEMANS, FINISH (?)                    6/20     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             6/20     12:00PM          CBS
USAC & NASCAR, COPPER WORLD CLASSIC(T)6/20     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     3:25-3:30PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (T)     6/20     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/20     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (L)            6/26     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (T)                6/26     4:00-5:30PM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/26     8:00PM           ESPN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
IMSA, WATKINS GLEN (?)                6/27     TBA              TBA
ASA, BRAINERD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY(L)6/27     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (L)                 6/27     4:00-6:30PM      ESPN
NHRA, HEARTLAND GRANDNATIONAL (L)     6/27     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27     9:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, DETROIT (T)            6/28     1:00AM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)              7/3      11:00AM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, PORTLAND (T)           7/3      8:00PM           ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (L)          7/3      9:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (L)                 7/4      7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
BUSCH GN, MILWAUKEE (?)               7/4      TBA              TBA
PIKES PEAK (?)                        7/4     (live coverage unlikely)
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (SD)                7/4     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IHRA NATIONALS, LIECESTER (T)         7/10     5:30PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/10     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SILVERSTONE, ENGLAND (L)   7/11     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
SCCA TRANS-AM, DES MOINES (L)         7/11     12:30PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, NEW HAMPSHIRE (L)        7/11     1:00PM           TNN
INDYCAR, CLEVELAND (L)                7/11     1:30-3:30PM    ABC,TSN
IMSA GTP, ROAD AMERICA (L)            7/11     4:00PM           ESPN
INDYCAR, CLEV. OR F1, ENGLAND ?(SD)   7/11    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/17     8:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               7/18     12:00PM          TBS
INDYCAR, TORONTO (L) ?                7/18     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
INDYCAR, TORONTO (SD) ?               7/18     4:00-6:00PM      ABC

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out SRC. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for 
info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If 
interested, please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 16:03:33 1993
Subject: Re:  '79 Camaro subframe connectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5328
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I currently have the bolt-on's in my '81 Z28 with T-tops (strictly for use
on the street) and I haven't had any problems with them yet.  I haven't
even had a chance to drill the sidemount bolts in yet either, and they are
still tight as ever (they have been on about 2 years now.)  The body flex
has been greatly reduced, and I figure when I put the side bolts in it
should help even more.  You can always get the bolt on's, and if they start
moving on you, just weld'em in place, there is plenty of room.

-- Steve

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 14 16:07:57 1993
Subject: CEI's new sparks
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5329
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Has anybody else read the May 10 EE Times article on CEI's plasma plugs?
It sounds interesting, but I am hoping for some more facts.  ( JGD, havv
you checked this out? )  It sounds like an incremental advance being
touted as a revolution.  The idea that more energy could be sent to the
FAM sounds correct, and the broadening of the combustion range sounds
possible, but how come its not standard everywhere?

	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

[I don't get EE Times.  Can you give a bit more info?  Like what is CEI?
I'll followup.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May 16 02:42:32 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5330
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
forum for  people interested in high performance vehicles to
exchange ideas and  discuss topics of current interest. This
list is chartered as broadly as possible consistent with  noise
supression.  I believe it to be more constructive to list
unacceptable topics and behavior rather than trying to
ennumerate permissible behavior. 

Unacceptable topics:  

*	Discussions about stock street cars.
*	Discussions about magic elixirs such as Slick 50 with no technical basis.
*	Ford vs Chevy vs ... bashing.
*	Foreign or domestic car bashing.
*	Purely Cosmetic issues concerning stock street cars.  (Buyer's guide
	to fuzzy dice/air fresheners, for example.)
*	Usenet-style flaming of any sort.

Explicitly acceptable is any discussion regarding increasing the performance
of any vehicle.   "For Sale" and other commercial messages, tastefully
done, are permitted.  Please, no hype.

To subscribe to this list, send email to hotrod-request@dixie.com.

Include on the Subject: line the keyword "subscribe" and a return path to 
your site.  Example:  If you are at foo@bar.edu,

Subject: Subscribe foo@bar.edu

If you do not include a return path, my Incredibly Dumb Mail Slave will
try to extract a path from your mail header.  If it does not  work, this
slightly less dumb mail manager (me) will not intervene.  Include a path.

To be dropped from the list, mail to hotrod-request@dixie.com with the 
following subject line:

Subject: drop foo@bar.edu

The address given MUST be EXACTLY the same as the address you used to 
subscribe with.

To post to the list, send mail to hotrod@dixie.com.  Please
include  a meaningful subject line.  Inquiries, and other administrivia should 
be addressed to jgd@dixie.com.   

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The list is echoed to Usenet on alt.hotrod.  You may be able to get this
group at your site.  In order to ensure your post is properly returned
to the list, be sure to mark alt.hotrod moderated and point the mailfile
back to hotrod@dixie.com.

If you get alt.hotrod, I urge you to use that venue instead of subscribing
to the list.  The list membership is approaching 300 which makes things,
ummm, interesting here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of people ask if they are missing articles or if they have been 
unsubscribed from the list.  There are easy answers to these questions.
Each article is assigned a sequential serial number that is contained
in the mail header X-sequence:  If you see missing numbers, you know
you have missed articles.  See below for the archive site.

The only two reasons anyone is ever unsubscribed from the list is a) if
that person asks and b) if mail to an address bounces.  Because of the
way mail agents handle undeliverable mail, I get gobs of bounced
messages.  That combined with the volume of the list means I must 
remove an address on the first round of bouncing.  If you are on
an Internet-based machine that uses SMTP, being down for even a 
short time will result in bouncing.  UUCP sites seem to have about a
day of cushion.  The volume of messages on the list is seldom less
than 10 messages a day even on the weekend so if you don't get 
messages for a day, you know you're off the list.  Simply send a new
subscription request to rejoin.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following sites maintain archives:

ece.rutgers.edu archives the hotrod and the z-car mailing lists.  This is
available only via anonymous ftp.  Jialin Li is the contact.  
jialin@ece.rutgers.edu

Hotrod-related GIFs (and others) are archived at ftp.nau.edu.  Unfortunately
the university does not allow incoming anonymous ftp so new GIFs must
be mailed to Milam, met@sunset.cse.nau.edu.  

These archive addresses are noted in the mail headers of each message.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I maintain a mail file server on dixie.com.  This is primarily to support
articles in my magazine, Performance Engineering (TM) but it is also
useful to hotrod list members. Software for articles and other car-related
files are available.  To get a directory, mail to 

	listserv@dixie.com

In the BODY of the message, include the statement 

address foo@bar.com                     <<-- optional.  Where you want it sent
Index

to get a file,

send file_name

If you get empty messages in return, that means the very sorry server
software I'm now using has crashed.  Send another request.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 01:40:11 1993
Subject: Re:  External Oil Pumps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5331
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> So I'm looking at the dry sump stuff in Summit and Jeg's catalogs and
-> gagging over $400 price tags on pretty little red and blue anodized
-> pumps. I'd like to dig up a junkyard equivalent as I'm sure you can
-> understand.

 Hmm.  I was doodling an external pump once, but I've wondered how they
kept them from weeping oil at the drive.  Now that I think of it, you
could just ignore the weep and run a drain line back to the pan.
Otherwise, I guess I could experiment and see.

 Do we need sealed ball bearings, a plain old bushing, or what? at the
pulley end?  I have a lathe, and if I can't find any stock the right
size, I guess I could cast up a housing from aluminum.  Scrounge a
gerotor set off an old Ford pump... are you interested?
                                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 01:46:02 1993
Subject: Re: Aftermarket Catalytic Converters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5332
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <16!wa=b@dixie.com> you write:

>Has anyone out there tried an aftermarket catalytic converter such as the 
>one made by Thrush.  Are there any others on the market?  Do you you feel 
>they're worth the investment (~$100)?
>
>Thanks,
>Todd


I vaguely remember from the Mustang magazines that removing the 4 cats on a 
stock 5-liter and replacing them with the 2-cat hi-po Thrush system will 
give you about 15-20 more horsepower.  Then again, you should also look at 
other things at the same time.  Like trashing the stock lo-flo mufflers and 
springing for a pair of Flowmasters.  I recall that'll add another 10 or so 
HP.

>From what I've heard about the Thrush system it's well worth the money AS 
LONG AS you follow through with other mods which will in turn increase the 
performance of the cats (like high-flo mufflers, etc).

-Dan

----------
Posted by: emory!symantec.com!daniel (Dan Neuwirth)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 01:59:01 1993
Subject: Comments.....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5333
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu





	Well, I don't really write to this list much, primarily, I just read.
But I thought I'd throw this out to see if I can get some comments.  About a
year ago I picked up a 1977 corvette.  It is a 350/350 combination with the 350
rated from the factory at 190 hp.  I believe this is the slowest vette to ever
come from the factory.  Anyway, it had about 50k original miles, but the
parentage is somewhat lost, though everything appears stock.  I get a break on
insurance as they list the 77 vette as a 'sports car', not as a 'high
performance sports car'. (that's what my insurance man tells me)

	Since, I've had it, I've replaced 2 calipers, one disc, the master
cylinder, the radiator and two U-joints (2 more to go).  I've also rebuilt the
Q-jet.  Oh, it came with dual exhaust and no cats and I pulled off the AIR
pump.  Where I live, there are no smog checks (for the time being, I did save
everything).

	I still have a few things to do before I delve into the engine.
Primarily, replace all the bushings and go through the power steering.  Anyway,
the car seems pretty tight and is a lot of fun to drive.  So, I found an old
magazine that listed the 0-60 time for this year vette at 9.5 seconds and
decided to see how mine compared.  Lacking any sophisticated equipment, I
tried just using my stop watch and watch the speedo.  Well, I tried this 3
times in a row, from a standing start (on wet road no less and my tires are not
that hot) and I got 7.2 seconds.. granted, my speedo can be off, but 2 seconds
off the factory time seems a bit much for minor changes that I've made.

	I have tuned it and everything is set to factory specs, but I'm
wondering if my 350 may not be stock.  The prior owner just picked it up from a
auto auction and repainted it, he doesn't know who owned it before, so he is of
no help..

	So, how valid is my method for checking performance?  And, what would
you think off a car that you picked up thinking was stock and finding it
performed 20% faster than the (slim) info you could find on it?



--
Tracy J. Evans
Hewlett-Packard
1-503-750-3837

----------
Posted by: Tracy J. Evans 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 02:08:20 1993
Subject: Late Model ('79+) Mustang events in Los Angeles Area
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5334
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Anybody know of any late model (1979+) Mustang shows or events in the Los 
Angeles/SoCal area?  I have a mildly upgraded '91 5-liter and I'd like to 
see what some other people have done with their cars.

Thanks---

-Dan

----------
Posted by: emory!symantec.com!daniel (Dan Neuwirth)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 02:18:04 1993
Subject: Re: CEI's new sparks
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5335
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Has anybody else read the May 10 EE Times article on CEI's plasma plugs?
> It sounds interesting, but I am hoping for some more facts.  ( JGD, havv
> you checked this out? )  It sounds like an incremental advance being
> touted as a revolution.  The idea that more energy could be sent to the
> FAM sounds correct, and the broadening of the combustion range sounds
> possible, but how come its not standard everywhere?

I've heard something about some type of plasma plugs, but if I remember
right those hadnt proven to have any significant advantage over a standard
plug.  However, I heard that from someone in the railplug group here,
which is developing plasma rail plugs (sorta like using a plasma rail gun
as a spark plug).  I think they're dumping a couple of joules into
each spark with the rail plugs right now.   Talk about the CDI from hell...

[Hmm, there was an outfit selling "plasma ignitors" at the PRI show last
November.  Claimed to be custom made for top fuel.  These were "mystery
tubes" that connected to the end of the wire and fit down in the plug
wells on the Hemi heads.  After seeing one demonstrated on the test machine,
it was obvious that these were simply high voltage capacitors hooked across
the high tension leads.  probably does sharpen up the leading edge of
the magneto spark.  No idea whether they work or not.  JGD]

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 02:28:16 1993
Subject: Re: Turborcharged Two-Stroke
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5336
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> The electric fuel pump and nozzles might work, but I am not sure that
-> it would give the control needed for changing engine load and rpm-
-> maybe you could explain more about how to make such a system work.

 You're talking about a constant-speed system, more or less.  Airplanes,
Indy cars, drag racers, and a few intrepid road racers controlled the
mixture manually for ages.


-> Unfortunately, oxygen an oxygen sensor will not work on a two stroke-
-> there is *always* oxygen in the exhaust due to short circuiting of
-> the intake charge during scavenging, i.e. some of the fresh mixture
-> goes right out the exhaust port

 Yeah, you're right.  You might be better off monitoring exhaust temp to
watch for leanout.


-> > How about driving a standard mechanical pump via the alternator
-> shaft? >The Kent 1600 used in the '70-'71 Pinto is designed for
-> external >mounting and would cost $30 or so, or you could use any
-> Ford-style >gerotor set and make up your own housing.

> This could be a possibility, but I would have to redo the ignition
> system. The end of one of the crankshafts has the generator on it,
> with the ignition pick included on it.  I think it would be easier if
> I could find an electric pump- if such a thing exists.

 I guess I don't understand, here.  You have four crank ends, the
intermediate shaft, and who-knows-what, all available for driving
anything you want, with a little machine work.

 If you're insistent on an electric pump, contact the manufacturer of
the turbo and see what the minimum oil flow is at operating temp. Then
pick up a likely electric pump (Mallory makes an inexpensive one good to
15psi on gasoline), warm up a bucket of oil, drop it in, and see what it
flows.


-> overheat the pistons, but on a naturally aspirated two-stroke, there
-> is already back pressure from the size of the oulet pipe.  These are
-> typically about one third of the area as the exhaust port, and help
-> retain the exhaust pulses in the expansion chamber to assist
-> scavenging.

 Ah, not always.  The tuned expansion-chamber-as-we-know-it is a fairly
recent development.  Back inna old days, the hot setup was the "blooey
pipe", which was basically a bent megaphone.

 I'm still not convinced you'll get any useful pressure-wave phenomena
with the turbo plugging up the exhaust, nor am I convinced the waves, if
present, would be any better than simply cranking up the boost.


-> Don't have the info here, but I'll bring it in tomorrow and post some
-> of the details.

 Thanks!
                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 02:41:27 1993
Subject: Howdy, y'all
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5337
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [Dave, Don't forget the US design arms of most of the jap car
-> companies and some of the europeans and huge performance aftermarket
-> biz.  How many vendors do you have in your vendor database?

 You're right.  I was in this guy's situation in 1977 or so, looking to
go on to college and engineering stuff.  The furriners weren't doing
much over here then, and many of the old-line vendors were shutting down
due to the depression and the smog nazis.  For a while there, it looked
like hot rodding was going the way for the coach-and-four.  After taking
a long, realistic look a look at the dismal situation, I decided not to
go that route.  I haven't sat down to review the situation nowadays, but
things are sure a whole lot better than they were, and more options to
shoot for.
                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 02:46:45 1993
Subject: Re:  External Oil Pumps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5338
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> In the tech sessions at the GS Nationals, Mike talked alot about how
-> they rework some of the oil galleries and change the way the oil is
-> routed through the block.

 I wound up having to plumb external oil lines on the last Cleveland I
built, which is one reason I used a Windsor block this time.  
                                                                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 02:50:45 1993
Subject: Fuel computers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5339
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Can anybody out there suggest a fuel injection computer other than a
Haltech?  I'd like it to 1) operate at least 8 injectors 2) work
with turbos/blowers/whatever as well as normal aspiration 3) cost
less than the Haltech piece.  That's about it.  Hopefully it'll be
fairly easy to program, too.  I'm not too picky about what it can
do, just so long as it does those three things I'm a happy camper.

[I like the Electromotive and the Motes systems.  I'm assuming you're
speaking of a general purpose system that can be adapted to any engine.
The big name guys make systems for V-8s that work well according to what 
I've heard.  The Motes system is a little less expensive than the Haltech
but not much.  Probably as cheap as you're going to get for a ready-to-install
unit.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!sdcc13.ucsd.edu!bkolodzi (Hurdy Gurdy Man )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 02:55:33 1993
Subject: Re: Turborcharged Two-Stroke
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5340
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> since you already have supercharging from the turbo. So the point of
-> the exhaust design becomes more of a question of effective purging of
-> exhaust gasses from the cylinder, which gets harder due to the
-> backpressure from the turbo. So an exhaust system design which
-> maximizes the purging effect may give significant gains.

 Since you're building for a very narrow RPM range, it might be
worthwhile just to treat the exhaust as a simple tuned column.
                                                                                                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 03:00:01 1993
Subject: Re: M85 vs. Ethanol
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5341
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>There once was an article in the Wasshington Post about 
>farmers and  ethanol.  It seems if you use ethanol just for 
>fuel :-) you don't have to pay taxes.  The farmer that was 
>interviewed substituted ethanol for diesel.

A farmer does not have to pay the raod taxes on fuel that is not used
on the road.  This means we have to keep track of the fuel used in
our trucks, which are used on the road, and pay taxes on the fuel used
accordingly.  The fuel used in the tractors is basically exempt.
This is regardless of the type of fuel (gas/diesel/ethonal, etc).

>Does this seem right?

Does to me, unless you're thinking of a different tax.

>I could grow the corn....:-)

Growing the corn is easy :).  Getting a liscense for the still is
expensive, and makes it not worth it in general IMHO.

>DIRK
Mark B.

----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 03:05:08 1993
Subject: Falcon interchange
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5342
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 This morning my pal Ron and I went out looking for likely victims for
the 351 transplant.  I haven't been out and about much since I got my
leg crunched five years ago, so I was a little out of touch with what
was around in the area.

 We found something I'd semi-seriously looked for since high school - a
1953 Studebaker Commander.  It's the same as the Hawk except for the
trim - a Maverick-sized car with a huge engine compartment and the slick
Leowy body.  The front and back glass were intact, there were no major
dents, all the chrome (actually polished stainless) is intact, and the
tires have air.  Alas, it looks like monkeys started to do bodywork on
it long ago, and did it with a disc grinder and about 10-grit discs.
Then other monkeys had slathered Bondo over that, which was peeling off
and of course had caused further corrosion from rain and condensation.
Aaaaargh!  The right front fender is hopeless, but one fender wouldn't
be too hard to get.  The problem is, the body is deeply pitted over
maybe 75% of its area.  You'd have to strip the filler off, tank it, and
then figure out what to do with the pitting.  It looks like more
bodywork than I want to get into.  I got a professional opinion on the
body, and the opinion was "hell, no, I won't touch it with a ten foot
pole."

   I might have tried it anyway, but a fair chance of failure on a
$1000 investment just doesn't look good right now.


 Meanwhile, I managed to turn up one (1) '63 Falcon two door bodyshell,
with glass.  The trunk lid and doors are bashed, the hood and grille are
missing, and the front fenders are in sad shape.  On the other hand, the
actual shell is arrow-straight and rustfree, has a clear local title,
and the glass has no chips or scratches.  We settled on $50, but the guy
wants to strip the interior first.  Fine by me.

 I'll have to scavenge new doors.  If I wait long enough I'll find
another two door.  However, there are a zillion four doors, Rancheros,
and station wagons around.  Does anyone know if the four door fenders
and hood will fit a two door?  What about the trunk lid?  I tried a
couple of body shops, but their catalogs don't actually say - it just
has the usual generic "specify body style" boilerplate.

 Once I have the shell here I'll be able to measure for the new rear
wheelwells and figure out what I'll do to the "frame rail" unibody
stiffeners.  It'll probably be more complex than changing the front out
to struts, but what the heck.
                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 13:10:33 1993
Subject: Re:  CEI's new sparks
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5343
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'll type in the first little bit to spark some interest....

PLASMA FIRES UP AUTO IGNITION

Arlington, Mass. -- A new ignition system based on plasma conduction
cuts auto emissions by 90 percent while increasing mileage.

The result of 15 years of research and development at Combustion 
Electromagnetics Inc. ( CEI, Arlington ), the approach views fuel combustion
as an electromagnetic component that must be included in a complete model of
ignition electronics.   The redesigned ignition system uses a novel spark-
plug design that enhances the plasma interface between spark and fuel mixture,
but uotherwise employs standard automobile electrical components and can be
retrofitted to any car.

etc......

Quoted without permission from page 33 of the May 10 EE Times.
	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 13:20:56 1993
Subject: Mustangs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5344
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Can someone post or mail me the current address for the mustangs
mailing list?  I was subscribed at one time, but was kicked of the
list due to some nameserver problems here.  I haven't been able
to get a subscribe request since, although my email works fine
everywhere else.

Thanks,

-Bob




-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 15:54:34 1993
Subject: Re: Comments.....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5345
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Anyway,
> the car seems pretty tight and is a lot of fun to drive.  So, I found an old
> magazine that listed the 0-60 time for this year vette at 9.5 seconds and
> decided to see how mine compared.  Lacking any sophisticated equipment, I
> tried just using my stop watch and watch the speedo.  Well, I tried this 3
> times in a row, from a standing start (on wet road no less and my tires are not
> that hot) and I got 7.2 seconds.. granted, my speedo can be off, but 2 seconds
> off the factory time seems a bit much for minor changes that I've made.

I have wondered about the accuracy of a speedometer under acceleration
conditions.  Mine seems to read about 5 MPH high at 60 under full
throttle conditions.

I built a little gadget to measure 0-N MPH times.  It consists of
a DC generator mechanically coupled to the speedometer cable, a box
of electronics which contains two comparators, a time base, and
a counter.  One comparator has its threshold set to about a millivolt
above zero and the other comparator is connected to a variable
reference voltage.  The first one starts the counter and the second
one stops it.

To use the box I cruise at the desired set speed (60 MPH, for example)
and adjust the reference voltage until the comparator output is just
toggling (it sees the ripple on the generator's output).  Then I get
set up to make the acceleration run, press the reset button, and go
for it.  I find that the comparator output goes true well after the
speedo reads the set speed.  For a 0-60 test the speedo usually reads
about 65.

Has anyone else experienced this acceleration-dependent behavior
in a speedo?

[Absolutely.  My speedo expert tells me most speedos are under-damped 
intentionally so that people will err or the side of NOT breaking the
speed limit.  JGD]

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 17:27:24 1993
Subject: Mustang and other lists 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5346
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Bob-

This was just sent to me this morning as I'm thinking about buying a 79 
Mustang pace car, and wanted to get some input.  This should help a lot 
of people.  (reprinted without permission of Richard Welty.  Hope he doesn't
mind.  =)  ) 
> Automotive Mailing Lists (Electronic Mail, that is):
> 
> [last updated 3/17/93; new lotus, exotic cars list subscription info;
>    added Portland, OR motorsports list, Corvair list, Triumph TR8 list -- rpw]
> 
> There are a number of electronic mailing lists on the network devoted to
> various special automotive topics.
> 
> To the best of my knowledge, all the lists appearing here have open
> membership policies.  It is my policy not to list `closed' mailing lists
> here.
> 
> Most mailing lists provide separate addresses for administrative
> queries and for general mail; where separate administrative
> addresses exist, I have listed those below, as the general addresses
> are not appropriate for inquirys and requests.
> 
> Audi
>          (send requests to quattro-request@aries.east.sun.com)
> 
> Autocross/Solo
>          (send requests to autox-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)
> 
> BMW
>          (send requests to bmw-request@balltown.cma.com
>           both regular and digest forms available)
> 
> British Cars
>          (send requests to british-cars-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)
> 
> Buick Grand National/Regal/GNX
>          (send requests to gnttype-request@srvsn2.monsanto.com)
> 
> Camaro/Firebird (GM F-body)
>          (send requests to f-body-request@boogie.EBay.Sun.COM)
> 
> Corvair
>          (send requests to bryan@pegasus.mitre.org)
> 
> Corvettes
>    there are two lists; the first is more of a competition oriented
>    list, and the second is more general in nature (or so i am told)
> 
>    Competition:
>           (send requests to vettes-request@cimage.com)
>    General:
>           (send requests to vettes-request@compaq.com)
> 
> Datsun/Fairlady Roadsters
>          (send requests to datsun-roadsters-request@hoosier.cs.utah.edu)
> 
> Dodge Stealth/Mitsubishi 3000GT
>         (send requests to stealth-req%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu)
> 
> Eclipse/Talon/Laser
>          (send requests to diginst!talon-request@radius.com)
> 
> Electric Vehicles
>          (send requests to info-ev-request@ymir.claremont.edu)
> 
> Exotic-Cars
>          (send requests to exotic-cars-request@sol.asl.hitachi.com)
> 
> Fabrication (race cars)
>          (send requests to racefab-request@pms706.pms.ford.com)
> 
> International Harvester (discussion of Scouts, pickups, etc.)
>          (send requests to ihc-request@balltown.cma.com)
> 
> Italian Cars
>          (send requests to italian-cars-request@balltown.cma.com;
>           both regular and digest forms available)
> 
> Hondas
>          listserv@brownvm.brown.edu; use standard listserv subscription
>          procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be
>          "sub HONDA-L your-real-name" with no subject line in the header
> 
> Hot rods
>          (send requests to hotrod-request@dixie.com)
> 
> Land Rovers
>          (send requests to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com)
> 
> Lotus
>          (send requests to lotus-cars-request@netcom.com)
> 
> Mazdas
>          (send requests to mazda-list-request@ms.uky.edu)
> 
> Miata
>          listserv@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu; use standard listserv subscription
>          procedure: the mail message body to listserv should be
>          "sub miata your-real-name" with no subject line in the header
> 
> Merkurs
>          (send requests to merkur-request@pcad.UUCP)
> 
> Mopar
>          (mostly high performance Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth products.
>           send requests to mopar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu)
> 
> MR2
>          (send requests to mr2-interest-request@validgh.com)
> 
> Mustangs
>    There are two lists, the first is for Mustangs through 1973,
>    the second for Mustangs from 1980 on.  nobody cares about
>    the Mustang II, so don't ask.
> 
>    classic:
>          (send requests to classic-mustangs-request@hpfctjc.fc.hp.com)
>    modern:
>          (send requests to mustangs-request@cup.hp.com)
> 
> Offroad & 4X4
>          (send requests to offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu)
> 
> Porsches
>          (send requests to porschephiles-request@tta.com)
> 
> Portland, Oregon Motorsports Activities
>          (send requests to pdxracer-request@reed.edu)
> 
> Rally
>          (send requests to rally-request@stratus.com)
> 
> RX7
>          (send requests to jjn@cblpf.ATT.COM)
> 
> Saabs
>          (send requests to saab@network.mhs.compuserve.com)
> 
> Saturn
>          (send requests to saturn-request@oar.net)
> 
> School (high performance driving schools)
>          (send requests to school-request@balltown.cma.com)
> 
> Sentra SE-R, G20, N2000
>          (send requests to se-r-request@pencom.com)
> 
> Supras
>          (send requests to supras-request@vicor.com)
> 
> Toyota
>          (send requests to toyota-request@quack.sac.ca.us)
> 
> Triumph TR7/V8, TR8
>          (send requests to jtc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu)
> 
> Volvos
>          (requests to swedishbricks-request@me.rochester.edu)
> 
> Wheel-to-Wheel Racing
>          (forum for race drivers, workers, crew, and wannabes;
>           send requests to wheeltowheel-request@abingdon.sun.com)
> 
> Z-Cars (Nissan/Datsun)
>          (send requests to z-car-request@dixie.com)
> -- 
> richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
> ``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
>   a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith
> 

----------
Posted by: emory!me1.lbl.gov!lomax (Ian Lomax)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 17 17:37:23 1993
Subject: Re:  CEI's new sparks
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5347
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 17, 12:07, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re:  CEI's new sparks
> I'll type in the first little bit to spark some interest....
>
> PLASMA FIRES UP AUTO IGNITION
>
> Arlington, Mass. -- A new ignition system based on plasma conduction
> cuts auto emissions by 90 percent while increasing mileage.
>
> The result of 15 years of research and development at Combustion
> Electromagnetics Inc. ( CEI, Arlington ), the approach views fuel combustion
> as an electromagnetic component that must be included in a complete model of
> ignition electronics.   The redesigned ignition system uses a novel spark-
> plug design that enhances the plasma interface between spark and fuel mixture,
> but uotherwise employs standard automobile electrical components and can be
> retrofitted to any car.
>
> etc......
>
> Quoted without permission from page 33 of the May 10 EE Times.
> 	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
>       Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
>    inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
> outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285
>
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
>
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from The Hotrod List



I called information and got their number.  The number is
617-641-0520. The lady that answered the phone was very rude and
abrupt with me. Even before I asked about racing involvement.  She
told me that there was no product available.  I asked if they had any
interest in testing with a race team.

She said, "Well, the race team gets a good ignition, but we don't get
anything out of it."

Hmmph! Doesn't sound like they have thought this through.

While still trying to be nice about it, I reminded her that a great
many corporations, some not even producers of automotive products,
have found exposure in the racing scene to be highly beneficial. Not
to mention valuable test data.  She asked for the name of my team,
address, and phone number, and said she would file for "if they ever
changed their minds".

I would be concerned about buying a product from a automotive products
company that exhibits 1) hostile attitude towards interested consumer
2) Anti-racing attitude.

If anyone else has a different experience with this company, I would
be interested to hear it.


-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 13:35:34 1993
Subject: Re: Comments.....
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5348
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Has anyone else experienced this acceleration-dependent behavior
> in a speedo?
> [Absolutely.  My speedo expert tells me most speedos are under-damped 
> intentionally so that people will err or the side of NOT breaking the
> speed limit.  JGD]

The one in my Rx7 does the opposite - the needle lags the "steady state" speed
reading by about 5mph during full throttle acceleration. This was determined by
a less interesting method than the comparator/generator system (which sounds
quite accurate). I just used the tach to get a speed estimate - it tracks
really tightly (it's easy to tell by ear that it follows the revs quite
well). Steady state speed readings in each gear were checked against tach
reading, and then acceleration run, also checked against the tach. This
was made much easier by a willing volunteer passenger/guage reader.


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 13:43:01 1993
Subject: Speedos and sensors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5349
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I had some e-mail asking about my 0-60 meter and thought that I would
pass on the question and answer here.

The question was how I manage to connect both the speedo and the
sensor at the same time.

Quite a few years ago I happened across a closeout sale of MPG meters.
These meters had a clever arrangement - the vehicle speed was sensed
by a small DC generator which had a male speedo fitting on one end
and had a female fitting on the other.  I just used this generator
in series with the speedo cable.

I wish I knew where to get more of these; it's a really handy thing.
The company that made it had a mold built which has the appropriate
threads for a speedo cable on the one end, and the other end takes
a plastic collar which is internally threaded to match the tranny.
That mold cost them a lot of money; too bad they don't seem to be
in business any more.  I would like to buy some empty housings.

If you have access to a lathe then you could make such a housing
in about 1/2 of a day.  The bearings and square shaft would take
some extra time.


Perhaps someone could comment about the availability of modern parts
which would do the same thing.  Perhaps a pulse counting sensor
could be modified.  The hard part is getting the housing; changing
the guts should be easy.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)


[I'm not sure about analog generators but digital interruptors are commonly
available because they are used on many cars.  A good source for new ones
is a speedometer repair shop.  This would be only slightly more complicated
to use.  A single tach-to-analog chip would do, as would a simple 
microprocessor.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: Bob Hale 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 13:52:28 1993
Subject: Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5350
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

G'day peoples.
 
There has been a good deal of discussion about the evils of the often
used Glycol on the local net. The conclusion reached by the article
below seems to sum up the thinking fairly well.
 
Although it probably pertains more to Australian climate, there are
plenty of places in the USA that have the same climatic condititions.
 
-------------  Start article  ----------------
 
                    WHAT'S WRONG WITH ETHYLENE GLYCOL?
 
SUMMARY:
 
In short, ethylene glycol is an antifreeze and nothing more which is not
required in most of Australia.  Glycol has no anti-corrosion properties,
it is
infact corrosive.  To offset this fact manufacturers add anti-corrosives
to the
glycol mix/preparation.  Over the life of the coolant the anti-corrosion
properties of the additives are depleted.  Once they fall too low you have
a coolant that is primarily oxalic acid which is highly corrosive to metals.
Added to this is that ethylene glycol is highly toxic.
 
No internal combustion engine on the market today needs glycol in the
cooling system.  No engine has been designed to need glycol.  Glycol is
simply an antifreeze.
 
 
Following are 1) Toxicity and 2) Corrosivity assesments of ethylene glycol.
 
1: TOXICITY
 
NOTE: The following was paraphrased from a paper by Dr Neil North (Dr North
is an industrial chemical consultant working in the area of material safety
data, environmental disposal of chemicals and the safe and the development
of safe and effective alternative chemical products 15/10/90).
 
The minimum faltal dose for ethylene glycol 50% water 50% is around 200ml
for an adult male.  A 4 yeard old needs around 40ml (one large mouth-full).
 
Hot coolant gives of vapours, so the vapours that come from your glycol
filled system may (after prolonged exposure such as radiator/cooling-system
mechanics) be harmful.  The maximum "safe" ceiling for such vapours has
been set at 50ppm.  The vapour comming from your radiator can reach 100+ppm.
 
Effects of ethylene glycol poisoning:  If ingested or inhaled in sufficient
quantities its immediate effect is on the centeral nervous system (CNS)
where it can result in headaches, tremors, drowsiness and convulsions.  The
short term effects of high doses includes kydney damage leading to a reduced
ability to urinate and accumilation of liquid on the lungs.  Both can be fatal.
 
With respect to the toxicity of ethylene glycol, one manufacturer issues the
following safety precautions:  "Avoid skin contact.  Wear impervious gloves,
full face sheild or chemical goggles and overalls.  Use with adequate
ventilation.  If using a resperator ensure that cartridges are correct
and are
in good working order.  Always wash hands before smoking, eating
drinking or
using the toilet."
 
If ethylene glycol is so dangerous then why is it used and why has it become
increasingly popular in Australia over the last decade?  The answer to this
question may lie in the internationalising of the vehicle industry.  With
very few exceptions the worlds vehicle manufacturers are international
organizations with headquarters in the Northern hemisphere, producing
standardised vehicles for the world market.  Most of these vehicles are sold
in Europe, Nth America and Japan.  In these countaries their cold winters
makes the use of an antifreeze essential and for this purpose ethylene glycol
is excellent (apart from toxicity).  Vehicle manufacturers often supply their
own anitfreeze and specify that only this product can be used in their vehicle
for the warranty to stay intact.  On a world scale the OZ market is so small
that little effort is made to re-design for Australian conditions.
 
This problem is compounded by distributors who advertise that their
manufacturer recommended coolant is the best and only product to use if you
want the engine to last.
 
In the long term there is no compelling reason why Australian vehicles must
use glycol coolants (unless operating in the Tasmanian or Snowy Mountains).
There are water-based (glycol free) coolants which are much cheaper than
glycol based ones and have an excellent performance record.
 
 
2: CORROSIVITY
 
The following is paraphrased from an article by Charles B. Jordan (1986)
"US Army Antifreeze after 50 years". Engine coolant testing: Second symposium
American society for testing and materials. Philadelphia. pp249-255.
 
and
 
Moror Equipment News (Trade journal) June 1990...
 
The terms "antifreeze" and "coolant" are often used interchangeably, however
there is a difference.  In this article coolant is defined as "any liquid
that circulates through the cooling system of any heat generating equipment
and transfers heat from the equipment through some type of heat
exchanger to
the air. "Antifreeze is a substance which is added to a coolant to prevent
freezing of the coolant when low temparatures prevai.  While heat transfer
and freezing protection are the main functions, an antifreeze should also
be noncorrosive, stable, of low viscosity, should not foam, should prefferably
increase the boiling point of the coolant, non toxic, non flammable and should
not produce an unpleasant odour.
 
Ethyline glycol was first used some 50 years ago, givin excellent freeze
protection, freezing at around -50 degrees Celcius (50% glycol water mix).
Proper inhibition of ethylene glycol to control corrosion is extreemly
important.
 
Water alone is a cooling system will result in corrosion, glycol alone is
also a corrosive agent.  Together in solution, water and glycol will
obviously cause cossosion over a period of time.  Ethylene glycol oxidises
through several stages to oxalic acid. Most of the series of oxidation products
to and including oxalic acid are corrosive to metals.  Conditions conducive
to breakdown are present in an engine cooling system.  These include
heat (specifically engine hot-spots), galvanic or electrolytic couples of
the several metals that are in the system, occasionaly the prescence of
combustion gasses, water impurities and elastomer additives.
 
To this end Antioxidants and alkaline formulations are added to the glycol
mix. These include many compounds which are used in cooling systems where
antifreeze properties are not required and include primary, secondary and
tertiary amines; organic and inorganic phosphates (flo-kleen falls into this
category, tannin phosphate), sillicates cresols and otherphenolic substances;
a wide variety of sulphur compounds; soaps; alkali metal salts; and the entire
gamut of borates have been used.
 
These inhibitors slow down the corrosion process caused by the water and the
glycol.  They may coat the metal surfaces and prevent corrosion by passivation.
The inhibitor system (during engine operation) is beeing continuously depleted
in the performance of these actions.
 
In 1972 the US army set up a study to determine whether the inhibitors
in the
glycol mix were being depleted. A prime function of these inhibitors is to
provide alkilinity to neutralize the organic acids formed by the oxidization
of the glycol.  The test was conducted over a period of several years in all
types of vehicles and showed that in a glycol mix 40% of vehicles needed
attention. Of this 40%, 3% had antifreeze in their systems that was highly
corrosive.
 
Ref: Moror Equipment News, June (1990)
 
     C. B. Jordan (1986) US army antifreeze after 50 years, Engine coolant
        testing: Second symposium, American society for testing and materials,
        philadelphia.
 
     C. B. Jordan (1969) Government technical report CCL #267 US Army, Coating
           and chemical laboratory, Aberdeen Proving ground.
 
     P.J Hyde & I.M. Ritchie (19??) The reaction between amiminium metal and
          the aqueous solutions of the nitride ion. Australasian corrosion
          Associatiom.
 
 
-------------  End article  ----------------
(Authors name/internet address available if required)
 
So comments anybody?
 
The thing that "worries" me is that this stuff is actively trying to
destroy my block!

----------
Posted by: emory!werple.apana.org.au!speednut (Mark Jose)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 14:02:31 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5351
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Does anyone know of a bolt on supercharger (SUPERCHARGER not
-> Turbocharger) setup for this engine?  There seems to be room in the
-> engine compartment of the sedan.

 ASCII and ye shall receive:  B&M makes a "universal" 4-cyl supercharger
kit for 2.0-2.5 sized motors.  Give 'em a call.
                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 14:41:08 1993
Subject: 351K ??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5352
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



>>-> When did Ford come up with this gem?
>>
>> Mid '70s through at least early '80s.  Easily identified by having only
>>one intake manifold bolt at the end of the head instead of a pair.  If
>>the heads are off, they have 9/16 head bolt holes and 302-style
>>rectangular water passages.                                                   >>                  
>>
>>----------
>>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 
I recently got the book, How to Rebuild your Small Block Ford.  In it, there
is a table giving head specifications for all the small blocks.  It doesn't
say for sure, but it implies that in 1975, they made a 351W head casting that
matches the 302W, i.e., with the single intake manifold bolts at each end and
rectangular water passages, but using the 1.9 exhaust valves.  In 1977, they
changed the 351W valve size to the smaller 1.7 (302W) valves.  

Is the 1975 casting the same as the earlier 69-up 351W heads, or are they
similar to the 302W heads?  If they are similar to the 302, it would seem 
that these 1975 heads could be a cheap source of GT40-like heads to use 
on a 302W.  Or is there something else to beware of?


-- 
Derek Deeter                           derekd@wv.mentorg.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wv.MENTORG.COM!derekd (Derek Deeter)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 17:46:31 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5353
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> There are water-based (glycol free) coolants which are much cheaper than
> glycol based ones and have an excellent performance record.
 

What glycol free coolant products are available in the US?  It's warm enough 
here to use something else most of the year.

Keith Kucera
Montgomery, Alabama, USA

----------
Posted by: Keith Kucera 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 18:44:34 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5354
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> > There are water-based (glycol free) coolants which are much cheaper than
> > glycol based ones and have an excellent performance record.
> What glycol free coolant products are available in the US?  It's warm enough 
> here to use something else most of the year.

Water 8*)

Actually, try some Water Wetter as well - it reportedly helps a lot.

-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

[Actually pure water - even distilled water - is a poorer coolant than
anti-freeze because it will cause corrosion and because the anti-freeze
elevates the boiling point of the solution.  The elevated boiling point
is important because it helps cool hot spots in the head that might otherwise
transition into film boiling (essentially no cooling).

I have experimented with distilled water in one of my Z cars.  Both the engine
and the radiator were new or freshly rebuilt so there was no residual crud.
Within a week, the water was red with rust.  

Has anyone experimented with propylene glycol?  I've seen several writeups
in the mags but no hard data.  I'd like to hear some first-hand experience.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 18:49:07 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5355
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi Tom,

There was a stock supercharged Fiat 124 Spider sold in the States in the
late '70s.  That system might be compatable with your Alfa.  Otherwise,
Judson is a fairly well known brand.  Check with local speed shops or in
Hot Rod type magazines.  The 9.0:1 compression ratio may be a little high 
though.  Most supercharged/turbocharged engines have rather low compression
ratios (around 7.0 to 8.5:1).  The compressor is artificially raising
the compression under boost so the engine sees something like 10.5 to 
maybe as much as 12:1 and without water injection to cool down the intake
your engine is going to start pre-detination.  This will either severly
limit your fun or if you don't pay attention, fry the motor.  Besides,
you don't have to add "just water" to your water injection!! That why 
some states object to water injection.  The "other" things added such 
as alcohol add to the hydrocarbons in the exhaust. 

...anyway, I hope this is of some help.

'later,
   Gary

 
         


----------
Posted by: Gary Goodlund 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 18:59:19 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5356
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 18, Keith Kucera wrote:

> What glycol free coolant products are available in the US?  It's warm enough 
> here to use something else most of the year.

Well, I very much like Redline Water Wetter. The granular
mix-it-yourself stuff has waterpump lubricants and anticorrosive
agents, but mostly it's a surfactant to help keep steam pockets from
forming. In my cooling-challenged track car, it's good for about
15-20degF reduction in water temps. And best of all, it is
significantly less _slick_ than glycol mixes. 

This is especially germane in track use, where coolant is often
spilled on the surface. As far as I'm concerned, glycol-based coolants
ought to be banned from racing for this reason alone. Several of the
worst incidents I've seen as a flagger were caused by slick conditions
from glycol-based coolants. The Redline stuff is still slick, mind
you, but not disastrously slick, a la oil. And it evaporates back to a
dry, sticky surface rather than needing speedydry to get up all the
traces.

-skod

--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and sometimes driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@sun.COM

----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Scott.Griffith (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 18 23:35:53 1993
Subject: Vette Gears
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5357
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Perhaps the Vette group should get this post; then again, they
don't seem interested much in modifying .

Anybody know what type of differential housing is at the tail 
of the late model Corvettes (1984-1993)?  By type I mean the 
moniker used to order replacement gears.  For example, there are 
four or five GM 10 Bolts, including the "new style" (post '89).

I would like to exchange the 3.07 gears with 3.73 gears, but 
don't want to pay for an entire differential package from 
somebody like Ecklers.  I want to order the gears directly from 
Richmond Gears and save the old gears and megabucks.  I already 
have an inexpensive source for the speedo gears.

Any thoughts about this exchange?  I think a bit of mechanical 
advantage would be fun.  Mileage on the highway shouldn't suffer 
too badly with the TH700-R4 overdrive ratio of 0.70.  But this is 
my daily driver, so I don't want to dump MPG into the toilet.
Thanks.  


Eric
internet ewz@nccibm1.rtpnc.epa.gov

----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 09:02:46 1993
Subject: More on cooling the intake for more power...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5358
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Hi. I tried cooling my upper intake manifold for my last
race. I expected that ice-water soaking into a rag would
lower the temperature quickly, but I realized during the
cool-down breaks that heat was conducting from the block and
heads, and it'd be a losing battle trying to get the intake
comparatively cool.

Who else out there is running a phenolytic (or other poor
heat conducting) spacer between the lower intake manifold
and either:

1 - the head.
	This would be best from a coolness of charge point of view.

2 - the upper intake manifold.
	This would keep less of the intake tract cool, but might
	be easier to make and/or install.

?
Joe Weinstein   joe@sybase.com   Sybase 1650 65th st.  Emeryville Ca 94608
        					       510-596-3620
COGITO ERGO SPUD  -- "I think therefore a yam"

----------
Posted by: emory!sybase.com!joe (Joseph Weinstein)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 14:26:50 1993
Subject: Vette Rears
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5359
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


84-93 Vettes have Dana Style rear carriers made of Aluminum.  Two carriers
were used, the Dana 27 in Early Automatic cars and the Dana 44 in later
cars and, I believe, in early stick shift cars.  For performance use
the Dana 44 is the only way to go and there are NUMEROUS posi carrier
and locking diff. internals available from Reider Racing and others.

Note that changing Dana gears requires a case spreader tool and a dial
indicator to remove the carrier and bearings without damage.   You can
make one from bar stock and threaded rod.

Check the gear catalogs for exact applications of ring and pinions as
the pinion shaft length may be unique on these carriers.

The Dana is a tough rear capable of 400 ft-lb+ and is used in trucks,
Jeeps, and was even used in Studebakers and Avantis.

----------
Posted by: NED 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 14:39:54 1993
Subject: intake temp
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5360
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

what are anyone's opinions on welding shut the exhaust passage that  
flows under the intake on small block chevys.   Would this significantly  
reduce intake temperature?  How about plumbing this passage for  
cooling? (once it is closed to exhaust of course)

Mike Kreiberg
56 chevy truck-327-4spd
59 elcamino 283-4spd

----------
Posted by: emory!NeXTwork.Rose-Hulman.Edu!kreibema
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 14:48:29 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5361
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>[Actually pure water - even distilled water - is a poorer coolant than
>anti-freeze because it will cause corrosion and because the anti-freeze
>elevates the boiling point of the solution.  The elevated boiling point
>is important because it helps cool hot spots in the head that might otherwise
>transition into film boiling (essentially no cooling).
>
>I have experimented with distilled water in one of my Z cars.  Both the engine
>and the radiator were new or freshly rebuilt so there was no residual crud.
>Within a week, the water was red with rust.  
>
>Has anyone experimented with propylene glycol?  I've seen several writeups
>in the mags but no hard data.  I'd like to hear some first-hand experience.
>JGD]

	I have three gallons of propylene glycol (1/2 for the bike, one for
the truck, and one for the lady's car).  I haven't tried it yet.  Next week is
the 12K service on the ZX-11, so I'll be putting the propylene glycol in it
(60/40 or 50/50 mix) then.  The manufacturer claims it's run 1,000,000 miles
and more in commercial diesels with no ill effects.  I'll let you know how it
goes.

[Waitaminit.  I thought one was supposed to run proplylene glycol without
water.  Unless my brain has core dumped this morning, I distinctly remember
reading that water would greatly lower the boiling point of PG.  What's
the poop?  JGD]

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 14:53:24 1993
Subject: 351K ??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5362
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Is the 1975 casting the same as the earlier 69-up 351W heads, or are
-> they similar to the 302W heads?  If they are similar to the 302, it
-> would seem that these 1975 heads could be a cheap source of GT40-like
-> heads to use on a 302W.  Or is there something else to beware of?

 Basically, most '76-later are simply 302 heads with larger head bolt
holes.  They're good for doorstops and wheel chocks.  You want the early
heads with eight bolt holes.
                                                                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 14:57:14 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5363
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Well, I very much like Redline Water Wetter.

 Back when it came out, Red Line was very chary of describing exactly
what Water Wetter was.  I figured it's probably just plain old
detergent; something to break surface tension.  However, I can't really
see how that would accomplish anything in a sealed and pressurized
cooling system.  At 15psi, one would assume the coolant was in fairly
intimate contact with most parts.


-> has waterpump lubricants and anticorrosive agents,

 Yeah, but you can buy that stuff anywhere.  Well, you used to be able
to, I haven't looked for it lately.
                                                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 15:01:56 1993
Subject: Re: Vette Gears
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5364
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 18, 10:15pm, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: Vette Gears
> 
> Perhaps the Vette group should get this post; then again, they
> don't seem interested much in modifying .
> 
> Anybody know what type of differential housing is at the tail 
> of the late model Corvettes (1984-1993)?  By type I mean the 
> moniker used to order replacement gears.  For example, there are 
> four or five GM 10 Bolts, including the "new style" (post '89).
>
  I believe you have a Dana 44, 12 bolt.  However, you shouldn't have 
any trouble tracking down a ring and pinion , including installation
kit from a variety of sources when you need it.  Most Vetts if not all
come with limited slip differentials too.
> 
> Eric
> internet ewz@nccibm1.rtpnc.epa.gov
> 


-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive(brattlan@speedway.net| ( Ford 302 Tri-Power  
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   | 4 spd, 9 inch )
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 15:07:29 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5365
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Distilled water is HIGHLY reactive. DON'T EVER put pure distilled
water into your cooling system. On the other hand, mixed with
equal parts of ethylene glycol, you're in good shape.

[The real issue is dissolved oxygen.  Deaerated distilled or deionized water
is NOT reactive.  Water in the radiator quickly becomes saturated with
oxygen unless a closed recovery system is used, in which case, it becomes
saturated a bit slower.   Ethylene glycol is fairly corrosive without its
anti-corrosive additive package.  Got to see that effect first hand a few
years ago.  I working heavy equipment maintenance on a government construction
site.  Some low-bid wazo in purchasing bought a bunch of ethlyene glycol 
feedstock in 55 gal drums because it was cheaper than anti-freeze.  No
additive package, no dye, just ethylene glycol.  The destruction was massive.
I graduated to "heavy equipment mechanic" while being pressed into service
flushing and repairing all the equipment on the site.  It looked almost
like someone had poured acid in the cooling systems.  In many cases we had
to actually pull heads to get to all the water passages in order to clear
the rust clogs.  The wazo probably got promoted. JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!rtfm.mlb.fl.us!gwalker (Grayson Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 15:12:20 1993
Subject: Fuel Computers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5366
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Sorry about not replying to the original message, but my system will
only allow me to post if I start a new message.  Ain't technology
grand?
 
Anyway, I am writing as a followup to my previous question about
fuel computer manufacturers.  The two manufacturers mentioned...
Electromotive and Motes... could I please have their addresses or
phone numbers?  I'd like to contact them for further information.

[Motes is imported from Australia by 
JGM Automotive Tooling
5692 Buckingham Drive
Huntington Beach, CA 92649
714 895 7001

Electromotive Inc
14004-j Willard Road
Chantilly, Va 22021
703 378 2444

You should note that Electromotive has a mixed reputation.  I've always had
good luck from them after replacing their crappy crank trigger sensor.
Others have had lots of troubles and report Electromotive to be somewhat
unresponsive.  I've heard enough mention of cold weather starting problems
to think it to be a generic problem.

JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!sdcc13.ucsd.edu!bkolodzi (Hurdy Gurdy Man )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 15:29:13 1993
Subject: Re: More on cooling the intake for more power...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5367
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Tue, 18 May 1993, Joseph Weinstein wrote:
> Hi. I tried cooling my upper intake manifold for my last
> race. I expected that ice-water soaking into a rag would
> lower the temperature quickly, but I realized during the
> cool-down breaks that heat was conducting from the block and
> heads, and it'd be a losing battle trying to get the intake
> comparatively cool.

If you leave your hood up and place a full bag of ice with a towel wrapped
around it on top of your intake while in the paddock or waiting to start, you
should be able to cool the upper manifold significantly and the lower manifold
to a lesser extent. The block and heads will be draining heat up through the
manifolds, but this will help to get more heat out of the entire system.

> Who else out there is running a phenolytic (or other poor
> heat conducting) spacer between the lower intake manifold
> and either:

Phenolic spacers are fairly common since they are cheap and hyped by advertisers.

> 1 - the head.
> 	This would be best from a coolness of charge point of view.

This would require milling the manifold down to fit the extra material of spacer
in the V between the head intake faces. I would worry about gaskets and other
problems with such a setup. I don't think the benefits would really be worth the
difficulty involved.

> 2 - the upper intake manifold.
> 	This would keep less of the intake tract cool, but might
> 	be easier to make and/or install.

These are common. You can buy a kit with a 1/2" or so spacer and longer manifold
bolts from any number of aftermarket suppliers. I have some doubts about how
effective they really are, but the principle is sound.

The best way to improve intake charge temperature is with a fresh air induction
system. By taking outside air, the initial charge temperature can be as much as
100 deg lower (though it will end up heating more due to higher temperature
difference, so the net result is less). Ram air and cowl induction systems that
do this were discussed recentely, so I'll refer you to those posts. Ethyl glycol
and a condenser are also an interesting approach (a la the Mach III cold-pack),
though this is out of range for most owners (and not really worth it unless you
are supercharging).

If you want to improve the cooling of your engine, you'll be much better served
by a large 3 or 4 row radiator. The stock radiator is a two row unit about 1.5"
thick, and is severely taxed under even midly strenuous conditions. Many of the
units both contain more cores and have a higher density of cooling fins/tubes.

A good, high flow aluminum radiator would be my first choice since it will both
improve the cooling situation and also lighten the front end to some degree.
You'll have to watch out for problems with the flairs for the inlet hose, as
most replacements have 1.5" fittings which are really a stretch for the 1.25"
hose and flair the stock unit uses. You can have a new flair put on by a shop to
solve this problem.

Another option is to drop in a radiator from a 79 Fairmont with the towing package,
as it is a heavy duty tow radiator (three row, 2.5"). This is cheaper than a new
aftermarket replacement radiator, but even the best units aren't that expensive.
Someone previously mentioned that there is a shop in New York which will build
custom 4-row aluminum radiators for c. $165. BBK sells 3 row radiators for $189
and the police hoses and clamps for $139. Many other aftermarket retailers also
offer replacement units.

Other options are electric fan conversions (more for the power than the ability
to reduce engine temps) and/or and oil cooler. Improving oil conditions with a
conversion to dry sumping or adding a windage tray and/or baffles will also help
a little to control engine temps (though their main benefit is in preventing oil
starvation under prolonged heavy lateral force, preventing aeration of the oil, 
and providing all components with a healthy, clean oil suppy at all times.

Regardless of your system you should use Redline's WatterWetter which reduces the
surface tension of the water/anti-freeze mixture to prevent hot spots. Try to
use as little anit-freeze as necessary since it reduces the cooling systems
ability to transfer heat (but give yourself enough safety margin, frozen coolant
is not a good thing... ).

						Happy Motoring,
							Robert Seymour

Robert Seymour				rseymour@reed.edu
Physics and Philosophy, Reed College	(NeXTmail accepted)
Artificial Life Project			Reed College
Reed Solar Energy Project (SolTrain)	Portland, OR

----------
Posted by: Robert Seymour 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 15:35:16 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5368
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


On 18 May 93 18:52, hotrod wrote:

>Well, I very much like Redline Water Wetter. The granular
>mix-it-yourself stuff has waterpump lubricants and anticorrosive
>agents, but mostly it's a surfactant to help keep steam pockets from
>forming. In my cooling-challenged track car, it's good for about
>15-20degF reduction in water temps. And best of all, it is
>significantly less _slick_ than glycol mixes. 

Fisher Scientific sells Aerosol.  You can get it in solid form (100
%) for $27 for 500g,  (75% aqueous) $19.35 for 500ml, (10% clear, laboratory
Aerosol) $54.25 for 4Liters.'

Here is the description for the 10%:

Laboratory Aerosol 10% is a remarkable chemical solution which makes
"water wetter" because it reduces surface tension and interfacial tension
to a considerable degree even though it may be present in very low
concentration.

It's funny how redline also uses the term water wetter.  I picked up
the redline liquid water wetter (no lube or anticorrosives).  I has
the same odor as the 10% Aerosol.  Except the redline has a weaker smell.
My guess is that the redline is something like a 2 to 5 % solution
(when starting from the 10% Aerosol).

I am going to try cutting the 10% Aerosol and compare drops of it (on
various surfaces)to drops of the redline.  Maybe I'll put some of each
in a pan, heat on a stove and adjust the mixture of Aerosol until bubbles
form at the same temp.

Anyway starting with the 10% and cutting it even more, you will end
up with a lot of low cost "water wetter".  Then if you want, add your
favorite waterpump lube and anticorrosion stuff.

Anybody have any other ideas on how to figure out the concentration
of the redline?  Maybe weight?

Oh by the way these prices are from an '88 catalog.  Fischer's number
is                corp. headquarters, they have locations all over the
US).

I have no connection with Fischer......blah, blah , blah..........

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 15:40:37 1993
Subject: Fischer Scientific
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5369
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Oh by the way these prices are from an '88 catalog.  Fischer's number
>is                corp. headquarters, they have locations all over the
>US).

Don't know what happened to the number:
(412)562-8300

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 15:47:21 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5370
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 I recall seeing some product announcements for chemically inert coolants; I
think they were heavily fluorinated hydrocarbons (called Fluorinert I believe).
The heat transfer was not quite as good as water but the stuff had a pretty
high boiling point and wouldn't be capable of supporting galvanic corrosion.
Has anyone ever played with water-less coolants? You'd need something pretty
low in viscosity but with reasonable heat capacity. A very light mineral oil
might be suitable (if it didn't want to decompose).

 Getting away from water based coolant would allow higher operating 
temperatures while still enforcing some uniformity of temperature (unlike
water which will form steam pockets allowing local hot spots). 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 16:06:55 1993
Subject: Supercharged Fiats?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5371
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 I know that there were turbocharged Fiats (good for a whopping 140HP vs 100
for "normal" Fiat Spiders) but I've never heard of them using superchargers.
I'd be interested to know more, if true. 

 According to Car Cruft this month the truism that boost increases final
cylinder temperature is only true if the forced mixture is not intercooled.
A cooled mixture can run with "normal" compression ratios. Of course it's
a tiny bit easier to write it than to do it... I always suspect the 
journalists' grasp of physics (no offense to our esteemed publisher).
Their "technical explanation" uses da big woids but makes a few 
assumptions that may be too convenient. However I do think that a lot of
the low compression boosted motor theory derived from the days when the
Roots blower/mixture heater was the only game in town and nobody used
intercoolers.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 16:12:31 1993
Subject: RE: Vette Gears
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5372
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



>Anybody know what type of differential housing is at the tail 
>of the late model Corvettes (1984-1993)?  By type I mean the 
>moniker used to order replacement gears.  For example, there are 
>four or five GM 10 Bolts, including the "new style" (post '89).

>I would like to exchange the 3.07 gears with 3.73 gears, but 
>don't want to pay for an entire differential package from 
>somebody like Ecklers.  I want to order the gears directly from 
>Richmond Gears and save the old gears and megabucks.  I already 
>have an inexpensive source for the speedo gears.

Have you talked to the tech department of Richmond Gear?  They've 
always been able to help me sort through the various GM rear axles.  
They may not carry the parts but they still have the info.  Check 
with a local speed shop for information - they might know the answer 
or at least know the number of someone who does.

>Any thoughts about this exchange?  I think a bit of mechanical 
>advantage would be fun.  Mileage on the highway shouldn't suffer 
>too badly with the TH700-R4 overdrive ratio of 0.70.  But this is 
>my daily driver, so I don't want to dump MPG into the toilet.
>Thanks.  

The TH700-R4 has something like a 3.04 1st gear.  Personal opinion 
(from driving an IROC 5.0 and a Z28 5.0 - TBI engine) the 
transmission / power train combo is great.  Traction is more or less 
not there - thanks to low-end torque.  It seems the chevy engines 
don't pull (stock intake and cam) well above 5000rpm.

If you want more wheel spin ( - come to think of it it seems 
corvettes plant the rear pretty well - better than camaros anyway) 
try changing the torque converter to a higher stall (be 
conservative) lock-up converter.  You'll be with-in a hair of the 
same mpg with great off the line power.  Additionally you may want 
to investigate a way to switch the torque converter lockup on and 
off.  I seem to remember some kits being offered but I don't 
remember by whom.  I think some of the TH700's used a simple 
electric signal that you can interrupt with a switch.



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 18:35:29 1993
Subject: Miller Cycle engine?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5373
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone have info on "Miller Cycle" engines?  The May 10 Autoweek
says that Mazda and Honda will be producing them soon.

"The engine also has a unique combustion cycle.  While a conventional
engine has equal-length strokes, Mazda's Miller has a shortened
combustion stroke because the inlet valves stay open even after the
pistons begin to rise.  Mazda said the advantage in that design is a
lower compression ratio but a higher fuel expansion ratio."

--
Joseph P. Cernada	AIT, Inc.
914/347-6860		50 Executive Blvd.
cernada@ait.com		Elmsford, New York 10523

----------
Posted by: emory!ait.com!cernada (Joseph P. Cernada)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 18:45:18 1993
Subject: Re: intake temp
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5374
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> what are anyone's opinions on welding shut the exhaust passage that  
> flows under the intake on small block chevys.   Would this significantly  
> reduce intake temperature?  How about plumbing this passage for  
> cooling? (once it is closed to exhaust of course)

A lot of aftermarket manifolds actually block this, other manifold gaskets
have small port shaped metal inserts that block the passage.   The down side
is that some carb chokes won't work (properly) without that heat well..

It does lower the intake temp......but some feel that the carb needs that delta
in temp to work properly.   In the old days (early 70's) it was well known
that by blocking those passages you could actually get an extra 10-12 horses
this on a 302 Z-28...

As far as welding them, most heads are cast and you will play hell with 
tolerances doing any welding on them.....

On the big block mopar intakes there is a windage tray under the manifold 
runners that we filled with ice between passes...that definitely helps..

dave


--
Dave Dabay  Telecommunications Network Supervisor    703-831-5482   KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu

----------
Posted by: dave dabay 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 18:56:33 1993
Subject: CarTech adjustable fuel regulator
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5375
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone have experience with this item? They claim that you can 
adjust it for preload (static pressure) and rate of gain. The adjustable
rate of gain sounds like a unique feature... Does anyone else make a
fuel pressure regulator that is adjustable in this manner? Sounds like
the hot ticket for a turbo'ed EFI motor. The other adjustable regulators
that I've seen are only adjustable for preload, and give a constant 
(linear) increase in fuel vs. manifold pressure. I don't think this is
what I'd want. I rater like the idea of having near stock fuel pressure
until the boost starts to build.
So, is this CarTech regulator a good product, or what?

...Greg
gag@arlvax.psu.edu

----------
Posted by: GREG GRANVILLE 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 23:40:06 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5376
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Fisher Scientific sells Aerosol.  You can get it in solid form (100
>%) for $27 for 500g,  (75% aqueous) $19.35 for 500ml, (10% clear, laboratory
>Aerosol) $54.25 for 4Liters.'
>

93/94 catalog prices are $33.40, $23.95, and $65.60, respectively.  Phone #
is 1-800-766-7000.  Aerosol is really the sodium salt of dioctyl
sulfosuccinate, a common surfactant.  Aldrich Chemical has 99% pure
material for about the same price and 96% pure material for $23 for 1000 g.

>It's funny how redline also uses the term water wetter.  I picked up
>the redline liquid water wetter (no lube or anticorrosives).  I has
>the same odor as the 10% Aerosol.  Except the redline has a weaker smell.
>My guess is that the redline is something like a 2 to 5 % solution
>(when starting from the 10% Aerosol).

>Anybody have any other ideas on how to figure out the concentration
>of the redline?  Maybe weight?
>
>Rob
>gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil

Is the Redline sold as a solid or (I assume) a liquid solution?  One way to
get an idea of total solids would be to take a known volume (100 to 200 ml)
and evaporate it to dryness in a pre-weighed beaker, if you have access to
a balance which can handle a few hundred grams at +/- .1 gram or so.  How
expensive is the Redline WaterWetter?


Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 23:45:12 1993
Subject: Re:  intake temp
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5377
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 Some gasket sets include heat riser blockoff plates for this purpose - 
especially the ones for performance applications.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 23:50:24 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5378
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I recall seeing some product announcements for chemically inert
-> coolants; I think they were heavily fluorinated hydrocarbons (called
-> Fluorinert I believe).

 Callaway was supposed to be running some type of flourocarbon coolant
in their turbo Corvettes for a while.  Dunno what happened to that.

 I have a problem with anything that originates at Callaway.  Their
claimed boost/bhp figures just don't make sense.  Add less than 1/2
atmosphere of boost, and increase power by more than half - must be the
negative entropy additive in the oil or something.
    
[Last time I bought any Fluroinert, before the econazi tax, it was several
hundred dollars a gallon.  It's big claim to fame is a high boiling point
(>400 deg, depending on which particular one).  It's specific heat isn't
very hot (NOT the hot ticket for cooling applications).  It is a good
dielectric so it is a useful coolant for things that operate at high 
voltages such as large power vacuum tubes.  Very pure water has displaced
it for most such applications because of the cost.  Frankly I can't imagine
using something in a radiator whose cost is measured in dollars per drop :-)
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 23:55:38 1993
Subject: Fiberglass bed for '54 Chevy truck?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5379
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Has anyone ever bought a fiberglass bed for an old truck?  I heard that they
make them for use on drag trucks.  

I have a '54 Chevy truck with a hot-rodded 350, I slammed the front using a
Mustang II front suspension.  I'm almost through with the truck except for
the bed and rear fenders.  The whole back end is in almost unrepairable
condition.  If I could find a fiberglass bed and rear fenders, I could get
rid of about 500 pounds and save countless hours of body work.  My other
option would be to trash the bed and make a wood flat-bed, but I kind of like
the look of huge bulbous fenders tightly wrapped around fat tires in the
back.  I know they make replacement steel sections for the bed, but it would
add up to too much dough.

I did all the work on the truck myself except for stitching the upholstery. 
The truck has a .030 over 350 4-bolt main Chevy with TRW forged pistons, a
hot cam, a Weiand intake, a Holley spread-bore replacement that I blueprinted
myself, a Mallory Unilite distributor, the cylinder heads are from a Z-28,
the 350 TH trans and driveshaft came from a '75 Impala wagon, the 10-bolt
differential came from a '72 El Camino, the front suspension is from a '78
Pinto wagon.  I had to weld in a Fat-Man Fabrications crossmember, I boxed in
the frame, welded in strut rod mounts, made custom motor mounts and a custom
trans cross-member.  I adapted some '89 Camaro disc brakes to the Ford
spindles, I made a stainless steel firewall, I put in a '75 Firebird tilt
column which required a Borgeson U-joints to couple to the Ford rack and
pinion, I installed a Lokar shifter, a Mustang II master cylinder under the
floorboards.  I customized the original gauges and completely rewired the
entire truck for 12 volt.  The front of the truck is Porsche Gaurd's Red
laquer that I sprayed myself.  The grill is white enamel.  The front fenders
are about 3" off the ground.  The dash and rear wall inside are black enamel,
but the inside door panels are Red with grey velour inserts that match the
grey velour seat.

Now that I have it running and in almost show quality up front, I'm at a
standstill because I don't want to spend too much time or money on the bed.
By doing 99% of the work myself and getting most of the parts from junkyards,
swap meets and $100.00 parts cars, I was able to make the truck on a limited
budget.  Any ideas on how I can finish it up cheaply?

I got a lot of encouragement by reading "Rod & Custom Magazine" -- it's a
great magazine for do-it-yourselfer hot rodders.  I'm also in the Kustom
Kemps Society of America which has a nice newsletter sort of magazine. 

I learned a lot putting this truck together and I'd be happy to encourage the
hobby by helping any new rodders out by answering questions or giving out
tips.  

Tom Carver

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 09:45:22 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5380
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>	I have three gallons of propylene glycol (1/2 for the bike, one for
>the truck, and one for the lady's car).  I haven't tried it yet.  Next week is
>the 12K service on the ZX-11, so I'll be putting the propylene glycol in it
>(60/40 or 50/50 mix) then.  The manufacturer claims it's run 1,000,000 miles
>and more in commercial diesels with no ill effects.  I'll let you know how it
>goes.
>
>[Waitaminit.  I thought one was supposed to run proplylene glycol without
>water.  Unless my brain has core dumped this morning, I distinctly remember
>reading that water would greatly lower the boiling point of PG.  What's
>the poop?  JGD]

	The manufacturer of the coolant recommends a 50/50 or 60/40 mixture,
which yields the following protection

	Mix (glycol/water)		Freeze/Boil

	33.4/66.6			4F/265F
	50/50				-29F/270F
	60/40				-66F/273F

	The trick thing is that you never change it.  You just test it with
the test strips they sell you and add an ounce or so of additives every year
or two.  Nice. If you ever do change it, you can just pour it down the drain,
as it's biodegradeable.  Double nice.

Later,
	
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - needs a name
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 09:57:33 1993
Subject: Re: Supercharged Fiats?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5381
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>James asked
> 
>  I know that there were turbocharged Fiats (good for a whopping 140HP vs 100
> for "normal" Fiat Spiders) but I've never heard of them using superchargers.
> I'd be interested to know more, if true. 

Well the last one I saw was back in about 1972.  I'm not sure what year of
body it was but he was running a fully blown (6-71) Chevy 409 that was poked
to 427.  If I recall correctly he gave our econo rail a very time trying
to keep ahead of him even with about a second handicap.  And were turning
upper 8`s at that time.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 13:40:02 1993
Subject: Re: Supercharged Fiats?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5382
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Unbelievable. How do you fit a big Chevy into a Fiat? It must've been a
tube frame with a Fiat hat. I tried to put a Buick V-6 into my Fiat Spider
and had to move everything out of the engine compartment - even the 
steering box. Thing went like hell as long as you didn't want to turn.
Couldn't keep an alignment more than 5 miles because the crossmember I
welded up (had to cut out the original) kept spreading and the wheels 
developed camber like this -     /  \  

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 13:44:45 1993
Subject: Fiberglass bed for '54 Chevy truck?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5383
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> condition.  If I could find a fiberglass bed and rear fenders, I
-> could get rid of about 500 pounds and save countless hours of body
-> work.

 Uh, the whole bed assembly doesn't even weigh that much to start with.
Without the wood, I doubt it weighs more than a hundred pounds, with
probably less than a hundred pounds of wood.  My brother and I simply
picked up the one from his '52 and carried it around.

 Street-type (as opposed to lightweight racing part) fenders tend to be
*heavier* than steel due to their thickness, particularly ones that are
sprayed with chopped glass instead of laid up with mat.

 If you simply want glass, no problem.
                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 13:50:35 1993
Subject: Flow Bench?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5384
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi everyone.  Well, my garage is almost complete (yay!) and I now find myself
thinking of all the goodies I can finally go out and purchase to put in it.
First thing is to get my valve grinding machines and seat grinders so that I
can rebuild my own heads again now that I have space.  One thing I would like
to do is start porting/polishing, and was wondering about flow benches.  Does
anyone have any specs on them?  Like, maybe how to build my own? I keep hearing
rumors of P.E. coming out soon (I have to get off my lazy butt and get a
subscription... :) )  Are any articles in the queue for P.E. on flow benches?
I'm looking for really detailed information here, on either ready-to-go flow
benches, or extremely technical and detailed specifics in building one.

[I think so.  Promises, promises..... :-)  Until I have ASCII in hand,
it ain't an article.  

The basic bench is pretty trivial.  A blower capable of sucking the required
volume of air, a still volume to give nice laminar flow and some kind of
flow measurement device.  A handheld pitot tube is handy for finding 
velocity profiles and turbulence but not absolutely necessary.  The whole
thing can be built into a 55 gal drum.  JGD]

Also, along the same lines, what different ways are there to measure turbulence
in different areas in the intake/exhaust runners/ports?  Anyone know of any
good books on these subjects?

Thanks in advance for any info!!!

-- Steve McClure

   Steven T McClure     ex-'84 GPZ 750 Turbo pilot       stm0@gte.com
GTE Government Systems         DoD #0425              
  Needham, Ma. 02194            /*  Insert standard disclaimer here. */
Beta software: 'beta than nothing, and that's usually all it is...

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 14:00:02 1993
Subject: RE: intake temp
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5385
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Mike writes:
>what are anyone's opinions on welding shut the exhaust passage that  
>flows under the intake on small block chevys.   Would this 
>significantly  
>reduce intake temperature?  How about plumbing this passage for  
>cooling? (once it is closed to exhaust of course)

Welding on cast iron is a tough one - get a professional if you've never 
done it before.  Some after market / race cylinder heads have no exhaust 
passage.

My own experience - I simply close off the passage with a performance 
racing gasket - It does hurt low speed cold weather performance but 
after a few miles you can't tell the difference.

Plumbing for coolant sound interesting.  It (the manifold) would heat up 
to about 200deg quickly (though not as quick as with the exhaust) and 
stay at that temperature.  This might give you a very stable intake 
manifold temperature. Someone once suggested plumbing it with freon to 
give a coooling effect - you would need an expansion chamber for this to 
work.

If you do decide to block the exhaust passage remember to remove the 
valve downstream on the exhaust manifold.

Dirk 



----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 14:05:13 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5386
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>-> Well, I very much like Redline Water Wetter.

> Back when it came out, Red Line was very chary of describing exactly
>what Water Wetter was.  I figured it's probably just plain old
>detergent; something to break surface tension.  However, I can't really
>see how that would accomplish anything in a sealed and pressurized
>cooling system.  At 15psi, one would assume the coolant was in fairly
>intimate contact with most parts.


Actually some high temp parts (areas around cylinder head's exhaust 
ports) may actually have no contact with water.  The water instantly 
vaporizes on contact with the hot surface.  This form a vapor barrier 
and reduces the cooling efficiency.  The fix is to design the cooling 
systtem to be turbulent so that water is constantly splased on the 
heads.  I recall another fix as running a no - water pump system 
(Popular Science a few years back). Cooling was done by boiling off the 
water and then condensing it back in a radiater / expansion tank.  Tthis 
system was being tested on a TA or GTO race car.  Don't know what 
happened.

I still don't see what the "wetter" will do.

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 14:27:45 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5387
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Is the Redline sold as a solid or (I assume) a liquid solution?  One way to
>get an idea of total solids would be to take a known volume (100 to 200 ml)
>and evaporate it to dryness in a pre-weighed beaker, if you have access to
>a balance which can handle a few hundred grams at +/- .1 gram or so.  How
>expensive is the Redline WaterWetter?

Redline sells both a liquid (no lubricants or anticorrosives) and a
powder (more like little pellets, which has the lubricants and anti-
corrosives).

I have the liquid.  It cost something like $5 + shipping, this is direct
from Redline.

I'll check out what the resolution of my electronic scale is and boil
some Redline.

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 14:33:05 1993
Subject: Two questions.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5388
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Ok, question number one.  I've seen intake manifolds for sale that
look to be constructed from sheet metal and whatnot.  Basically a
home-brew, non-cast intake manifold.  My question is, how feasible
is it for an individual to build his/her own intake manifold?  How
much structural strength does the intake manifold apply, anyway?
 
 [Not too hard to build if you have the means to cut and weld the sheet
 metal. I've built them for motorcycle engines.  JGD]

Alright, so that was two questions right there, but here's another
one.  Fuel pumps.  If you were to run two pumps in series, like say
two pumps capable of flowing 500HP of gas, would they actually flow
enough for more than 500HP or would it still be at 500HP?  Seems the
current rage with the Mustang magazines it to run an auxiliary fuel
pump instead of just a single brand new pump, and I'm curious about
the theory behind it all.

[Two pumps in series would have the capacity of the lowest flow one.
It would have the theoretical ability to double the pressure of one
pump - not needed, of course.  Two pumps in PARALLEL double the capacity
of one pump.  There are several reasons to run two pumps.  Two small pumps
are probably cheaper than a large one, particularly if the large one is
a low production volume racing pump.  Also probably more available.
If the ECU has the ability, sequencing the pumps as needed (idle and low
speed on one pump, turn the second one on at a programmed fuel demand point)
reduces the power draw (significant in some cases) and reduces fuel heating.
Fuel heating is something people don't think about.  I have a Holly 
EFI pump here that draws 9 amps.  That's 124 watts at 13.8 volts.  
All that heat is dissipated into the fuel either as pumping losses or
heat from the motor.  This heat combined with the heat from the engine
compartment can be significant.  The Bosch pump I use on my fuel injection
flow bench only draws about 3 amps at 38 psi but it still heats the couple of
gallons of working fluid 10 degrees in just a few minutes.  

All that said, the main reason is most likely economic.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!sdcc13.ucsd.edu!bkolodzi (Hurdy Gurdy Man )
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 14:39:50 1993
Subject: Re: Miller Cycle engine?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5389
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
: Does anyone have info on "Miller Cycle" engines?  The May 10 Autoweek
: says that Mazda and Honda will be producing them soon.
: 
: "The engine also has a unique combustion cycle.  While a conventional
: engine has equal-length strokes, Mazda's Miller has a shortened
: combustion stroke because the inlet valves stay open even after the
: pistons begin to rise.  Mazda said the advantage in that design is a
: lower compression ratio but a higher fuel expansion ratio."
: 

The Miller cycle engine is a convention piston engine with the following
differences WRT "conventional" 4 cycle engines.

1. Increased mechanical compression ratio (10:1 or so)
2. Very late intake valve closing timing (~90 ABDC)
3. Intercooled supercharging.

Part-load implications:
The high mechanical CR results in good thermal efficiency because thermal
efficiency depends on expansion ratio. The late intake closing results
in low trapping efficiency at low speeds. This means that for a given mass of
inducted air the throttle has to be open further than in a conventional engine.
This reduces pumping losses and therefor improves fuel economy. Also, at
moderate to high loads the late intake closing provides some octane requirement 
relief (reduced effective compression ratio).

WOT implications:
Without supercharging, the engine would have poor low-speed torque. As
speed increases torque could approach the levels of a "conventional" engine.
With the intercooled supercharging, in essence a portion of the compression
work is transferred from the cylinder to the supercharger. Here, the 
intercooler acts to reduce octane requirement, allowing the use of high 
mechanical compression ratios. 

Depending on the design goals the ultimate torque curve at WOT could be 
better than that of the "conventional" engine.



*************************************************************************
*My opinions are mine and do not necessarily reflect in any way those   *
*of my employer.                                                        *
*Chris Warren:  ccw@slee01.srl.ford.com                                 *

----------
Posted by: emory!slee01.srl.ford.com!ccw (C. C. Warren)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 14:44:58 1993
Subject: Miller Cycle engine?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5390
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> "The engine also has a unique combustion cycle.  While a conventional
-> engine has equal-length strokes, Mazda's Miller has a shortened
-> combustion stroke because the inlet valves stay open even after the
-> pistons begin to rise.  Mazda said the advantage in that design is a
-> lower compression ratio but a higher fuel expansion ratio."

 That's another variant of the old Crower "Mileage System".  You run
14:1 or 16:1 CR, then hold the intake valve open to bleed pressure back
into the intake, resulting in a trapped CR of around 8:1 to 9:1.
Crower's implementation didn't work all that well, but I think probably
part of his problem was he was recommended SP2P or 2P-180 style
small-runner, dual plane intakes with small carbs.  The enormous
reversion in the intakes confused the hell out of the carbs.  Hot Rod
built a 350 Chevy using the Crower system back, oh, well over ten years
ago now.  I wrote to both of them suggesting they try an Offy 360 with a
four inch spacer, or maybe the Weiand tunnel ram with the single 4V top,
but never got any reply.  Hot Rod gave up on the project car after a few
issues, and Crower gave up shortly after.

 There's nothing wrong with the concept, but it doesn't really get you
that much.  It's a crutch to get slightly better economy from large
displacement motors, without re-engineering them into small displacement
motors.  The proper solution is to simply use a smaller motor.

 Crower would probably be happy to grind you one of his Mileage System
cams, though you'd have to go to someone else for the super-CR pistons
(Crower sold some cheap castings with big domes).
                                                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 16:39:49 1993
Subject: Knock sensing via sparkplug
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5391
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In the June R&T page 141 I read about Saab using a new (to me)
method of knock sensing:

"A low voltage is applied across the plug gap (... causing a current ...)
Measurement of this current (... can be used as a knock sensor)."

Anyone have any other references to this?  Thanks.

Peter Dufault
HD Associates

----------
Posted by: emory!world.std.com!hd (HD Associates)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 16:44:18 1993
Subject: Re:  Fiberglass bed for '54 Chevy truck?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5392
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Tom Carver (carver@sierra.stanford.edu) described his '54 truck and
got me all excited.  It seems he's done a lot of stuff that I want 
to do to my Jeep.  I started to send him an email response and thought
maybe I'd send it to the list as well.  So here goes.


I'm writing because I've been *slowly* working on a 67 Jeepster and
was thinking about what would be involved in replacing the firewall.
I have to do something about the floors.  I welded in some aluminum
diamond plate for the meantime but want to do something a little nicer
for the long term.  It needs new rocker panels so I've been thinking
about building rock rails that join to the new floor.  When I started
thinking about that, I realized that I might want to do something
about the firewall at the same time.  The firewall is generally good
but I would prefer having something a little slicker (and with holes
where I need them not where they should have been on the original
truck.  What was involved in replacing the firewall?  I imagine you
scabbed in the new one but what kind of lip did you have when you took
out the old one?  How did you connect it to the floorpan?

I am going to put in a new column in July and would love to know any
tricks you think are important there.  I want a tilt column with
lights, wipers, and (maybe) cruise.  I'm thinking a Japanese column
but would love to find an American column that has what I need.  I got
the Borgeson catalog and noticed something that seemed important.
They said that the angle of the column was an important safety factor.
Did you look into that at all?  I was just thinking that the angle
would depend on the location of the hole in the firewall and whatever
mounting hardware I needed to hang off the dash.  Did you need to do
much to mount your new column?

Sorry for all the questions (and no answer to yours) but it seems
like you've been through a bunch of the stuff that I plan to do
(and some of it quite soon).                                 

Thanks in advance,

Richard

beckwith@ils.nwu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!ogun.ils.nwu.edu!beckwith (Richard Beckwith)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 16:48:59 1993
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5393
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 19, 11:15pm, The Hotrod List wrote:
} >Fisher Scientific sells Aerosol.  You can get it in solid form (100
} >%) for $27 for 500g,  (75% aqueous) $19.35 for 500ml, (10% clear, laboratory
} >Aerosol) $54.25 for 4Liters.'
} 93/94 catalog prices are $33.40, $23.95, and $65.60, respectively.  Phone #
} is 1-800-766-7000.  Aerosol is really the sodium salt of dioctyl
} sulfosuccinate, a common surfactant.  Aldrich Chemical has 99% pure
} material for about the same price and 96% pure material for $23 for 1000 g.

Anyone know what impurities are likely to be in that other 4%, how
corrosive it is, and what the appropriate concentrations are?  Might be
time for a group buy...

} >It's funny how redline also uses the term water wetter.  I picked up
} >the redline liquid water wetter (no lube or anticorrosives).  I has
} >the same odor as the 10% Aerosol.  Except the redline has a weaker smell.
} >My guess is that the redline is something like a 2 to 5 % solution
} >(when starting from the 10% Aerosol).

Don't forget the pink dye. :-)

} Is the Redline sold as a solid or (I assume) a liquid solution?  

Both.  The crystalline form is sold as a combination "water wetter",
anti-corrosive, and water pump lubricant.  (This version apparently
contains phosphates, which FoMoCo recommends against in its cars.)  The
liquid only contains the water wetter.

} How expensive is the Redline WaterWetter?

About $5-7 for a single treatment in either form.  It seems to work,
both from my own experience and those of other Mustang nuts.

 -- Chuck Fry, keeping it cooler than usual

-- 
  Chuck Fry  chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov  POB 60772, Palo Alto CA 94306
     Support the Fair Speed Limit Act!  Write your Congresscritter.
 Derate all salespeople's claims by 0.25 to determine true performance.
	     I bear sole responsibility for this claptrap.

----------
Posted by: emory!freud.arc.nasa.gov!chucko (Chuck Fry)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 16:59:25 1993
Subject: Re: Fiberglass bed for '54 Chevy truck?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5394
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 19, 11:42pm, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: Fiberglass bed for '54 Chevy truck?
> Has anyone ever bought a fiberglass bed for an old truck?  I heard that they
> make them for use on drag trucks.  
> 
> I have a '54 Chevy truck with a hot-rodded 350, I slammed the front using a
> Mustang II front suspension.  I'm almost through with the truck except for
> the bed and rear fenders.  The whole back end is in almost unrepairable
> condition.  If I could find a fiberglass bed and rear fenders, I could get
> rid of about 500 pounds and save countless hours of body work.  My other
> option would be to trash the bed and make a wood flat-bed, but I kind of like
> the look of huge bulbous fenders tightly wrapped around fat tires in the
> back.  I know they make replacement steel sections for the bed, but it would
> add up to too much dough.
> 
> Tom Carver
> Posted by: Tom Carver 

-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive(brattlan@speedway.net| ( Ford 302 Tri-Power  
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   | 4 spd, 9 inch )
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 19:45:02 1993
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5395
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>} >Fisher Scientific sells Aerosol.  You can get it in solid form (100
>} >%) for $27 for 500g,  (75% aqueous) $19.35 for 500ml, (10% clear, laboratory
>} >Aerosol) $54.25 for 4Liters.'
>} 93/94 catalog prices are $33.40, $23.95, and $65.60, respectively.  Phone #
>} is 1-800-766-7000.  Aerosol is really the sodium salt of dioctyl
>} sulfosuccinate, a common surfactant.  Aldrich Chemical has 99% pure
>} material for about the same price and 96% pure material for $23 for 1000 g.
>
>Anyone know what impurities are likely to be in that other 4%, how
>corrosive it is, and what the appropriate concentrations are?  Might be
>time for a group buy...

I called Aldrich's Tech. Info line and the very nice young lady told me
that their last batch had about 1% water, and she guessed the rest would be
sodium benzoate or a similar sodium salt.  Shouldn't cause problems in an
aluminum/steel/copper system.  Also, they have no minimum order...

[Got a number for Aldrich? JGD]

>} Is the Redline sold as a solid or (I assume) a liquid solution?  
>
>Both.  The crystalline form is sold as a combination "water wetter",
>anti-corrosive, and water pump lubricant.  (This version apparently
>contains phosphates, which FoMoCo recommends against in its cars.)  The
>liquid only contains the water wetter.
>
>} How expensive is the Redline WaterWetter?
>
>About $5-7 for a single treatment in either form.  It seems to work,
>both from my own experience and those of other Mustang nuts.
>
> -- Chuck Fry, keeping it cooler than usual

I take it that you are using the liquid form, to avoid the phosphates.  If
you have their number, you should be able to call Redline and request a
Material Safety Data Sheet, which should list the ingredients.  It would be
interesting to see what surfactants they are using.

Also, has anyone heard of using polyethylene oxide (PEO, molecular weight
100,000 or so) to lower viscosity in an automotive cooling system.  I know
that a few percent lowers viscosity substantially, enough so that fire
fighters use it in their tank trucks to squeeze more water through their
hoses.  Should be stable and safe in a radiator, but I don't know if the
increased flow would yield a significantly cooler engine.

Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov, wanting to keep it cooler than usual

----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 19:51:18 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5396
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

->From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 19 14:51:35 1993
->
-> I recall seeing some product announcements for chemically inert coolants; I
->think they were heavily fluorinated hydrocarbons (called Fluorinert I believe).
->The heat transfer was not quite as good as water but the stuff had a pretty
->high boiling point and wouldn't be capable of supporting galvanic corrosion.
->
A product of 3M.  We use it here in our Cray-2 4/512.  From the jug label:

"Thermal decomposition may produce toxic products.  Small amounts of 
decomposition may occur at 200 degrees C.  Increased rate of decomposition
at increased temps."

One of our on-site Cray techs says someone in their Kansas City center 
ingested some on a bet, alledgedly no ill effects.  Lots of it sitting around
here.  

-tom kroeten
 Minnesota Supercomputer Center

[There is a whole family of Fluoroinert products.  The highest boiling point
ones are used for vapor reflow soldering.  That is, they boil at a high enough 
temperature to melt solder.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!msc.edu!tom (Tom Kroeten)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 19:55:59 1993
Subject: Re: Fiberglass bed for '54 Chevy truck?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5397
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Has anyone ever bought a fiberglass bed for an old truck?  I heard that they
>make them for use on drag trucks.  
>
>I have a '54 Chevy truck with a hot-rodded 350, I slammed the front using a
>Mustang II front suspension.  I'm almost through with the truck except for
>the bed and rear fenders.  The whole back end is in almost unrepairable
>condition.  If I could find a fiberglass bed and rear fenders, I could get
>rid of about 500 pounds and save countless hours of body work.  My other
>option would be to trash the bed and make a wood flat-bed, but I kind of like
>the look of huge bulbous fenders tightly wrapped around fat tires in the
>back.  I know they make replacement steel sections for the bed, but it would
>add up to too much dough.

Sounds like a nice truck your building.
I'd look for a good used steel bed to replace your old one. Don't go with a
wood flatbed, that would be heavier than a steel bed. There is a company
that has an ad in Street Rodder that makes a complete fiberglass truck of
your Chevy body style. I haven't scene one up close so I can't make any
comments. If they sell the bed I'd be enterested in the price because they
make a 36 Ford that would use the same bed as the 37 waiting in the barn.

   Bill Drake   -   bill@ecn.purdue.edu

   47 Ford Coupe////454/AT/3:00//// the "Fat Rat"
   69 Camaro convertible////327/AT/2:73
   73 Camaro LT

----------
Posted by: emory!ecn.purdue.edu!bill
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 20:33:57 1993
Subject: Re:  Fiberglass bed for '54 Chevy truck?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5398
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Tom Carver (carver@sierra.stanford.edu) described his '54 truck and
-> got me all excited.

 I'll give a brief description of my brother's '52 Chevy pickup:  15
(fifteen) miles since a full outer restoration, complete with original
color puke-green paint.  Underneath, he'd added a 12 bolt posi with 3.08
gears, a T350, and a 10.5:1 350 Chevy with 283 power pack heads, a
Duntov hydraulic cam, an Offy Dual-Port, a 600 Holley, and an HEI.  He
went into the military before it was complete and our Dad finished it
for him, and the only time it's ever been on the road was to get the
exhaust pipes put on.  I got a copy of his orders and the title and
obtained an antique license for him since this is his home state.

 Last year he (my brother) got the crazies, and decided he'd turn the
truck into a bracket racer.  He hasn't done the chassis work yet (needs
ladder bars BAD) but it runs and he's driven it around a bit - remember
it's legal - except the new motor is rather stronger than the old.  A
.030 over 350, 10.5:1 Keith Black pistons, Milodon 6" aluminum rods, the
reciprocating assembly was balanced by Chrome-A-Shaft in Memphis,
custom-ground Sig Erson cam (260/264 @ .050, 104 lobe center, .600/.600
lift), with complete pushrod/spring/retainer/etc kit, Crane roller
rockers, Summit gear drive, Accel BEI distributor, Offy 2x4 "360"
intake and two 625 Carter AFBs, and a custom-built set of 2" diameter x
40" long zoomies coming out under the front fenders.  B&M shift kit and
a TCI 4500 stall convertor.  He's running 461 casting heads he got in
the Philippines, ported by some crazoid with a BIG grinder and a welder
- the exhaust ports look like intake ports, and the intake ports... he
had to take a LOT off the intake to match the ports. They're ported
by-guess-and-by-gosh, but the floor and shortside radii look pretty
close to the stuff in Jenkins and the Chevy Power manual, so they're
probably OK.  Maybe not any better than a set of new Darts, but, hey,
they're paid for.

 It runs and it's legal, as long as he doesn't get foolish and rack the
exhaust when he's too near a cop.  He's going to remove a leaf from each
side to lower the front a bit, then take it to work and weigh it at each
end so we'll know where the CG is, so we can figure out where to put the
ladder bars.

 Personally, I thought it was a bit squirrelly with the old motor in
there, and up around 70 mph its handling, or lack of it, made me
nervous.  Ah, well, the NHRA Safety Nazis will probably keep him from
killing himself, assuming he manages to get it down the track at all -
right now it'll shift through all three gears without moving an inch.
DEFINITELY need to do something about that traction problem...


-> the Borgeson catalog and noticed something that seemed important.
-> They said that the angle of the column was an important safety
-> factor.

 I think they're full of it.  Production automobiles have been made with
practically every possible steering wheel angle.  At opposite extremes,
Americans tend to like their wheels nearly vertical, hands at 10 and 2
o'clock.  Italians like 'em down at 45 degrees or so, and drive with
their hands at 5 and 7 o'clock.
                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 20 20:40:56 1993
Subject: Firewall replacement
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5399
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>I'm writing because I've been *slowly* working on a 67 Jeepster and
>was thinking about what would be involved in replacing the firewall.

>truck.  What was involved in replacing the firewall?  I imagine you
>scabbed in the new one but what kind of lip did you have when you took
>out the old one?  How did you connect it to the floorpan?

I made a new firewall for my fatrat project, along with front floor
section and trans tunnell. First I cut out the old firewall leaving a
2 inch lip around the edge. This was used to weld the new firewall
to, much easier than making new lips. Then I used posterboard to
make my templates. I had to add a 5" recess due to the new engine
location, a flat one would be easier. I also located my tilt column
at this time. A sheetmetal brake was used to make all my bends. I 
then used a beadroller to add a design, it also stiffened it up. A large 
flat firewall will do some vibrating. The floor sections were made up
at the same time. 

I then mocked everything together. When everything fit right I
wirewelded it all in. It was a big job but well worth it when done.
Or you could take an easier route some people take. Weld your new
firewall over your exsisting one.

As for you steering column, you don't want it so steep your u-joints
get into a bind. That's probably what Borgeson was getting at.  I had
a problem with one of my Borgeson joints when I first bought them.
I had a 5/8 36 spline steering box so that's what I ordered and it
didn't fit. Turns out they make a special 5/8 36 spline for the Mopar
steering box.  AAAarrrrgggggggg.

   Bill Drake   -   bill@ecn.purdue.edu

   47 Ford Coupe////454/AT/3:00//// the "Fat Rat"
   69 Camaro convertible////327/AT/2:73
   73 Camaro LT

----------
Posted by: emory!ecn.purdue.edu!bill
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 21 10:05:46 1993
Subject: about Flourinert
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5400
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I forwarded a couple of the cooling messages to a friend of mine who is
a mech engineer and has been working on cooling high-wattage chips for
the past few years; I knew that he'd done some long term experiments
with Flourinert. Here's what he has to say:

---------------  


I don't know much about how bad ethylene glycol is for the environment,
though I was aware it's no longer considered cool to send it down the
drain.  And even growing up, I was careful not to leave it unattended;
I've heard cats like the sweet taste, and poison themselves.  And I've
always avoided Austrian wine.  But seriously...

> I recall seeing some product announcements for chemically inert coolants; I
> think they were heavily fluorinated hydrocarbons (called Fluorinert I believe.
> The heat transfer was not quite as good as water but the stuff had a pretty
> high boiling point and wouldn't be capable of supporting galvanic corrosion.
> Has anyone ever played with water-less coolants?

You had the name "Fluorinert" exactly right.  It's made by 3m, though
Montedison in Italy makes a similar product line.  They're not just
heavily fluorinated, they're fully fluorinated; no hydrogen at all.  
That's what makes them inert, ozone-safe, and wildly expensive.  
In modest quantities, the cheapest grades are over $300/gallon.  
And they're not that good as coolants: while they have a high specific 
heat, comparable to water, their thermal conductivity is 10X worse.
So it's typically used only military stuff and megabuck supercomputers.
I did build some experimental cooling systems for smaller computers a
few years back, and simplified things enough that before I called it 
quits, I had a system where the cost of the rest of the cooling system
was less than the cost of the Fluorinert to fill it.  That how come I
know a bit about the stuff.

> You'd need something pretty
> low in viscosity but with reasonable heat capacity. A very light mineral 
> oil might be suitable (if it didn't want to decompose).
>  Getting away from water based coolant would allow higher operating 
> temperatures while still enforcing some uniformity of temperature (unlike
> water which will form steam pockets allowing local hot spots). 

If all you want is higher operating temperatures, why not straight
water?  Just crank up the pressure.  There are other possibilities from
the high tech world.  One that is curently trendy seems to be poly-alpha-
oelefins (PAO).  These are supposedly non-fouling (unlike some earlier 
fluids) have decent oxidative and moisture stability and cost a mere 
$30/gallon, I'm told.  IBM uses this instead of helium to fill the modules
in their latest mainframes.  There are several companies that make PAO 
(Royal Lubricants and Frisbi[?], I recall).  I don't know upper temperature 
limets, etc.  There's a more expensive version ($100/gallon) that has 
microencapsulated phase change material, but I think it might be tailored 
for lower temperature electronic cooling.  It's supposedly been selected 
for Lockheeds ATF (Advanced Technology Fighter) program.  So if you've
got to have the most high tech stuff . . .


/Bill



------- End of Forwarded Message

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 21 13:04:15 1993
Subject: Re: Speedos and sensors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5401
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you wrote:
: I had some e-mail asking about my 0-60 meter and thought that I would
: pass on the question and answer here.

: The question was how I manage to connect both the speedo and the
: sensor at the same time.

A company that I used to work for made Taximeters.  Our sensor consisted of a 
small circular magnet that would fit inside the transmission end of the speedo
cable. A little plastic box that clipped over the outside of the cable has
a Hall sensor and signal conditioning in something about 1"x0.5"x0.5". 
Installation was a breeze. Undo the cable and slide the magnet onto the inner
and then screw the cable back on. Clip the transducer on the side and you're
away. 
This magnet was tiny. About the size of a ferrite bead. The hole was a push
fit on the cable and the outside diameter would fit inside the part of the
housing attached to the cable (<5mm OD).
The magnets were a stock item from somewhere, but I have no idea where. If you
can find them, it's a simple and tidy way of getting a speed reading.

Steve.



----------
Posted by: emory!kcbbs.gen.nz!steveb (Steve Baldwin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 21 13:16:16 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-19*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5402
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. I am also starting to receive 
information directly from TNN (The Nashville Network) and am very 
grateful to them for their help. A special thanks to Dan Jones for 
passing along ESPN's racing schedule. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE     TIME(Eastern)  NETWORK

NASCAR SOUTHWEST, SONOMA (T)          5/21     1:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Countdown to Indy (recap of today)    5/21     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
World Of Speed & Beauty (VW Nationals)5/22     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (clutches)         5/22     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Wild About Wheels                     5/22     2:00-2:30PM      DISC
Truckin' USA                          5/22     2:00-2:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today                            5/22     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    5/22     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
NHRA, SOUTHERN NATIONALS, ATLANTA (T) 5/22     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 3RD DAY (L)  5/22     4:00-7:00PM    ESPN,TSN
Wd World Of Sports (some Indy coverage5/22     4:30-6:00PM      ABC
MotorWeek '93 (sports cars & the Eldo)5/22     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE(L)  5/22     7:30-10:30PM     TNN
SpeedWeek                             5/22     10:30-11:00PM    ESPN
Indy 500 Summary (3rd day time trials)5/23     12:00-12:30AM    ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 3RD DAY (T)  5/23     12:30-2:30AM     ESPN
Motoworld                             5/23     3:00-3:30AM      ESPN
Indy 500 Summary (3rd day time trials)5/23     3:30-4:00AM      ESPN
Indy 500 Summary (3rd day time trials)5/23     6:30-7:00AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          5/23     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
FORMULA 1, MONTE CARLO, MONACO (?)    5/23     9:20AM           TSN
Trucks & Tractor Power                5/23     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Cycle World                           5/23     9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Winners (Dave Shultz)                 5/23     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
Motor Sports Hour                     5/23     10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
NHRA Today                            5/23     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    5/23     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay (L)                           5/23    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    5/23    11:30AM-12:00PM   HTS*
Legends Of The Brickyard (1992)       5/23     1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (L)                5/23     1:00-3:00PM      TNN
NHRA Today                            5/23     3:30-4:00PM      TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (L)  5/23     4:00-5:00PM      ABC
F ATLANTIC, ROAD ATLANTA (T)          5/23     4:00PM           TSN
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Louie Meyer)  5/23     4:00-4:30PM      ESPN
Inside Winston Cup                    5/23     4:00-4:30PM      TNN
Winners (Dave Shultz)                 5/23     4:30-5:00PM      TNN
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Little Al)    5/23     4:30-5:00PM      ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (L)  5/23     5:00-7:00PM      ESPN
IROC #2, DARLINGTON (T)               5/23     5:00-6:00PM      ABC
Shadetree Mechanic (clutches)         5/23     6:30-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    5/23     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, SPORTSNATIONALS, ATLANTA (T)    5/23     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           5/23     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine                    5/23     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks & Tractor Power                5/23    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer                           5/23    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA                          5/24     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (T)  5/24     12:00AM          TSN
World Of Speed & Beauty               5/24     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
INDIANAPOLIS QUALIFYING, 4TH DAY (T)  5/24     4:00-6:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/24     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Louie Meyer)  5/24     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
This Week On Pit Road                 5/24     5:00-5:30PM      HTS*
Indy 500 Summary (4th day time trials)5/25     12:30-1:00AM     ESPN
M.T. OFF-ROAD CHAMPIONSHIP, TEMPE (T) 5/25     1:00-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/25     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           5/25     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Checkered Flag (NASCAR, Sonoma)       5/25     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
SpeedWeek                             5/25     2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Indy 500 Summary (4th day time trials)5/25     3:00-3:30PM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/26     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           5/26     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           5/27     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           5/27     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Indy 500 Preview                      5/27     12:00-1:00PM     HTS*
Cycle World                           5/27     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     5/27     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                5/27     3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
Indy:A Race For Heroes (Little Al)    5/27     3:30-4:00PM      ESPN
MotorWeek '93 (sports cars & the Eldo)5/27     8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Prime Time Motorsports                5/27     10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR, Charlotte (L)    5/27    11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
AMA SUPERCROSS, CHARLOTTE (T)         5/28     12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/28     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             5/28     1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           5/28     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Glory Days                            5/28     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POLE DAY AT CHARLOTTE (T)5/28     7:00-9:00PM      HTS*
NASCAR, SPORTSMAN 100, CHARLOTTE (T)  5/28     9:00-11:00PM     HTS*
WINSTON CUP, POLE DAY AT CHARLOTTE (T)5/29     12:00-2:00AM     HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/29     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Movie: Grand Prix                     5/29     1:30-4:30AM   WDCA (DC)
NASCAR, SPORTSMAN 100, CHARLOTTE (T)  5/29     2:00-4:00AM      HTS*

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (?)               5/29     TBA              TBA
SpeedWeek                             5/29     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
RaceDay (L)                           5/30    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
USAC MIDGETS, VENTURA (L)             5/30     12:00AM          ESPN
INDIANAPOLIS 500 (L)                  5/30    11:00AM-3:30PM  ABC,CTV
WINSTON CUP, WORLD 600, CHARLOTTE(L)  5/30     4:30PM           TBS
RaceDay Update (L)                    5/30     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           5/30     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
IMSA GTP, LIME ROCK (L)               5/31     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, DOVER (L)                   6/5      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/6     11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                6/6      12:00PM          TNN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (L)                6/6      1:00-3:00PM      ABC
F ATLANTIC, MILWAUKEE (T)             6/6      5:00PM           TSN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (SD)               6/6     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (T)                6/7      2:30AM           TSN
ARCA, POCONO (L)                      6/12     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            6/12     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MYRTLE BEACH (L)            6/12     5:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               6/13     12:30PM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (L)       6/13     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
IMSA, MID-OHIO (?)                    6/13     TBA              TBA
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (L)               6/13     3:00-5:30PM    ABC,TSN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     3:25-4:00PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MONTREAL (T)              6/13     7:00PM           TSN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T)6/13     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (SD)              6/13    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (T)       6/14     12:00-2:00AM     ESPN
IHRA SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)    6/19     1:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE (T) 6/19     3:30-5:30PM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/19     8:00PM           ESPN
LEMANS, START (?)                     6/19     TBA              TBA
RaceDay (L)                           6/20    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
LEMANS, FINISH (?)                    6/20     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             6/20     12:00PM          CBS
USAC & NASCAR, COPPER WORLD CLASSIC(T)6/20     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     3:25-3:30PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (T)     6/20     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/20     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (L)            6/26     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (T)                6/26     4:00-5:30PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MOSPORT (T)               6/26     5:00PM           TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/26     8:00PM           ESPN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
IMSA, WATKINS GLEN (?)                6/27     TBA              TBA
ASA, BRAINERD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY(L)6/27     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (L)                 6/27     4:00-6:30PM      ESPN
NHRA, HEARTLAND GRANDNATIONAL (L)     6/27     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27     9:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, DETROIT (T)            6/28     1:00AM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)              7/3      11:00AM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, PORTLAND (T)           7/3      8:00PM           ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (L)          7/3      9:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (L)                 7/4      7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
BUSCH GN, MILWAUKEE (?)               7/4      TBA              TBA
PIKES PEAK (?)                        7/4     (live coverage unlikely)
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (SD)                7/4     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IHRA NATIONALS, LIECESTER (T)         7/10     5:30PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/10     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SILVERSTONE, ENGLAND (L)   7/11     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
SCCA TRANS-AM, DES MOINES (L)         7/11     12:30PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, NEW HAMPSHIRE (L)        7/11     1:00PM           TNN
INDYCAR, CLEVELAND (L)                7/11     1:30-3:30PM    ABC,TSN
IMSA GTP, ROAD AMERICA (L)            7/11     4:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, HALIFAX (SD)              7/11     5:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, CLEV. OR F1, ENGLAND ?(SD)   7/11    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, TORONTO (?)               7/17     5:00-6:30PM      TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/17     8:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               7/18     12:00PM          TBS
INDYCAR, TORONTO (L) ?                7/18     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
INDYCAR, TORONTO (SD) ?               7/18     4:00-6:00PM      ABC
BUSCH GN, TALLADEGA (?)               7/24     TBA              TBA
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/24     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (L)    7/25     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, TALLADEGA (L)            7/25     12:15PM          CBS
PIKES PEAK (T)                        7/25     TBA              ESPN
IMSA, LAGUNA SECA (?)                 7/25     TBA              TBA
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (SD)   7/25    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
S.N.THUNDER (L)                       7/31     8:00PM           ESPN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out SRC. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for 
info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If 
interested, please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 21 13:29:23 1993
Subject: Re: about Flourinert
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5403
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


On Thu, 20 May 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> If all you want is higher operating temperatures, why not straight
> water?  Just crank up the pressure.  There are other possibilities from
> the high tech world.  One that is curently trendy seems to be poly-alpha-
> oelefins (PAO).  These are supposedly non-fouling (unlike some earlier 
> fluids) have decent oxidative and moisture stability and cost a mere 
> $30/gallon, I'm told.  IBM uses this instead of helium to fill the modules
> in their latest mainframes.  There are several companies that make PAO 
> (Royal Lubricants and Frisbi[?], I recall).  I don't know upper temperature 
> limets, etc.  There's a more expensive version ($100/gallon) that has 
> microencapsulated phase change material, but I think it might be tailored 
> for lower temperature electronic cooling.  It's supposedly been selected 
> for Lockheeds ATF (Advanced Technology Fighter) program.  So if you've
> got to have the most high tech stuff . . .


Just a tidbit.  Polyalphaolefins used to be used as the basis
on which several synthetic motor oils were concocted (Older
formula Mobil 1 for example).  The synth manufacturers have
mostly switched over to a Di-ester formulation since the
ester's have some better lubrication qualities.  I would 
expect the PAO coolant to have somewhere near the PAO
oil's temperature capability...

Steve
--
 Steve Andersen  DoD #0239                               andersen@me.udel.edu
 (302) 832-0136                                     andersen@zr1.ccm.udel.edu
 1992 Ducati 907 I.E.                                      1987 Yamaha SRX250
 "Life is simply a consequence of the complexities of carbon chemistry..."



----------
Posted by: Steve Andersen 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 21 17:34:24 1993
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol (Aldrich's number)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5404
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>[Got a number for Aldrich? JGD]

I knew this would come back to haunt me.  Aldrich Chemical Co., Milwaukee,
Wisconsin, 1-800-558-9160 orders, 1-800-231-8327 tech info, M-F 7:00 am to
7:00 pm, weekends 8:00 am to 12:00 noon.

Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

[Thanks!  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 21 17:39:00 1993
Subject: Re: Miller Cycle engine?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5405
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>Part-load implications:
>The high mechanical CR results in good thermal efficiency because thermal
>efficiency depends on expansion ratio. The late intake closing results
>in low trapping efficiency at low speeds. This means that for a given mass of
>inducted air the throttle has to be open further than in a conventional engine.
>This reduces pumping losses and therefor improves fuel economy. Also, at
>moderate to high loads the late intake closing provides some octane requirement 
How do they controll the air fuel mixture.  It seem that this setup would
really screw up a carburated system, with some of the air moving forward,
back, and forward past the carb.  Even with port injection it seems like
the air/fuel ratio would get messed up a little.

Mark W. Blunier

----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 21 17:44:43 1993
Subject: Re: about Flourinert
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5406
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>If all you want is higher operating temperatures, why not straight
>water?  Just crank up the pressure.  There are other possibilities from
>the high tech world.  One that is curently trendy seems to be poly-alpha-
>oelefins (PAO).  These are supposedly non-fouling (unlike some earlier 
>fluids) have decent oxidative and moisture stability and cost a mere 
>$30/gallon, I'm told.  IBM uses this instead of helium to fill the modules
>in their latest mainframes.  There are several companies that make PAO 
>(Royal Lubricants and Frisbi[?], I recall).  I don't know upper temperature 
>limets, etc.  There's a more expensive version ($100/gallon) that has 
>microencapsulated phase change material, but I think it might be tailored 
>for lower temperature electronic cooling.  It's supposedly been selected 
>for Lockheeds ATF (Advanced Technology Fighter) program.  So if you've
>got to have the most high tech stuff . . .
>
>/Bill
>
>------- End of Forwarded Message
>
>Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
> 
We use a PAO based oil in our mechanical vacuum pumps.  It was developed by
a local company, Appropriate Technical Resources, Laurel, MD
(301-467-1270).  They include anti-oxidants and a pH indicator.  Stuff
really stands up to water and organic solvents that would turn a
mineral-oil based vacuum pump oil to sludge.  Also does a very good job of
protecting the pump from corrosion.  Has a flash point of 510 deg. F and a
viscosity of 55 cst at about 170 deg. F.  I was told that the viscosity
doesn't fall nearly as rapidly as mineral oils as the temperature
increases, but have no numbers at hotter temps.  Don't know what the heat
capacity or thermal conductivity are.  We pay $13.50 per one liter bottle
(only 8 times more than Prestone :-)).  I'm sure buying even 5 gallons at
once would get a substantial discount.
Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 21 17:49:15 1993
Subject: Re: Speedos and sensors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5407
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hi,
	I think you wanted to send your message about speedo magnets to
someone else.  I'm the guy who posted about my '54 Chevy truck.

Thanks anyway,
	Tom

----------
Posted by: Tom Carver 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 21 23:36:24 1993
Subject: Need advise about restricting Mass Air Sensor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5408
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a 4" MAS and I think that the size is causing a large bog in my
acceleration. It feels just like I'm running a dominator carb, far too
much area across the metering device to attain adequate pressure drop.
My idea is to restrict the MAS from 4" down to 3-1/2". My computer allows
for a complete range of fuel calibration so I don't think that there should 
be a problem with just recalibrating the unit to match the new airflow.
The new pressure drop should be sufficient to motivate the sensor much 
quicker than it has been.

Is there a problem that I am over-looking here?

Mucho Gracias'

Millam

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May 22 08:29:59 1993
Subject: Re: Miller Cycle engine?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5409
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> How do they controll the air fuel mixture.  It seem that this setup
-> would really screw up a carburated system, with some of the air
-> moving forward, back, and forward past the carb.  Even with port
-> injection it seems like the air/fuel ratio would get messed up a
-> little.

 Oh, it DOES.  You need a large plenum volume for carbureted engines,
and volume helps isolate the MAP and MAF on injected motors.  The best
possible system for such a an engine would be a speed-density rig with
some sort of waveform smoothing on the MAP sensor.

 The strong reversion pulses mean that fuel will still be blown back
into the intake system even with port injection, since the air is
flowing OUT of the chamber when the valve closes.  This means you're
handling wet fuel flow PLUS the injectors, so you'd be running a
carb-type intake designed to handle wet flow.
                                                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May 22 08:36:24 1993
Subject: old photo
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5410
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 I was flipping through a 1962 Hot Rod Annual a few minutes ago.  On
Page 49 there's a most interesting photograph, purportedly showing a
tubular chassis.

 On close examination, yes, this is a tubular chassis.  Looks like a
4-tube job with some smaller-diameter triangulation tubes barely
visible.  We can only see from the rear up to the firewall - the car is
mid-engined, and for the photo to be from 1962, it'd be a VERY early
attempt at a mid-engined car.  I'm not sure if Cooper was building their
first open-wheel mid-engine cars in 1962 or not.

 The engine is a small block Chevy, with the cast aluminum Corvette
valve covers and bolt-on cast aluminum Offenhauser or Moon breather
vents.  A big magneto hides the carburetion from view, but there are
three rubber fuel lines heading behind it; probably a 3x2bbl setup.
What looks like a regular front oil fill comes out just behind the
magneto; looks like someone made it fit the old crankcase breather port
in the back of the block.  There are tube headers, but they're rather
laughable by modern standards - looks like four pieces of 1.5" or so
pipe about 5" long, curving up to meet a log pipe of about 2" diameter,
with no collector.  The log manifold comes just barely behind the valve
covers.

 Back in the 1970s Smokey Yunick advertised his fancy cooling system for
the small block Chevy, taking water from the front of the cylinder heads
instead of through the intake.  Whoever built this car beat him by 15
years or more - except for coming out the back instead of the front, the
layout is identical, right down to the positioning of the ports.

 There's a conventional aluminum Chevy bellhousing.  There's a big hole
cut where the clutch fork goes, and a long, curved arm sticking out,
connected to a cable.  Cable clutch.  I converted a Ford housing that
way once.  Worked just fine.  There's what looks like a 3-speed Saginaw
trans center section bolted to that, with an about 1/2" thick aluminum
plate, a maybe 4" long casting of some sort (tailshaft support?) which
is bolted to a Halibrand quick-change.  It's a pretty long arrangement
to stuff into a mid-engined car, but it looks like it would work OK.

 The Halibrand is equipped with inboard disk brakes.  Solid rotors,
maybe 10" diameter, but discs - that was rare in 1962!  The calipers are
enormous and appear to be fixed, four piston types.  I regret I cannot
identify their source.  There are hefty-looking U-joints and driveshafts
heading out past the edge of the picture - there has to be either a
spline or a donut at the far end, because there's a big De Dion tube
arching back around behind the Halibrand.  There's a Watts link with the
roll center apparently at hub centerline, very nice bracket work.  The
fore/aft location is by smallish-looking parallel links with rod ends,
going from the uprights up to what looks like just ahead of the
bellhousing flange.

 Suspension is by coilover shock, also unusual in 1962.  There's a sway
bar running atop the chassis with long driving links, everything mounted
in rod ends, very normal ...er... modern looking.  The brake lines are
evidently routed INSIDE the upper right frame rail.  There's just a
little stub of line visible, and the rubber brake hoses coming off that
to the calipers.

 The car is apparently self-starting.  You can just barely see the curve
of a starter in front of the bellhousing.

 The firewall looks like it's aluminum, maybe three feet wide.  On the
right hand side, hanging outboard of the chassis, we can see the curved
shape of what looks like a streamlined fuel tank.  I can't tell if it's
a single seater or two seater.  There are a couple of brackets sticking
up randomly, apparently to support bodywork.

 Every nut I can see has a flat washer under it, and the nuts are the
Nylok type.  Even the shocks and sway bar mounts.

 Lots of things aren't the way we'd do them today, but for 1962 this car
was awesomely advanced.  31 years later, I wouldn't feel embarrassed if
I'd built it.  The workmanship is impressive.

 Not bad for "How Much Detail Can You Extract From One Picture" eh?

 Alas, I have absolutely no clue as to what this car is!  What long
wheelbase, mid-engined, full-bodied, Chevy-powered racing sports cars
ran in 1961-1962?  I've never even seen a picture of one of Lance
Reventlow's Scarabs - could this be a Scarab?  It's approximately the
right year.
                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May 22 14:36:21 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5411
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com writes:
"Has anyone experimented with propylene glycol?  I've seen several writeups
"in the mags but no hard data.  I'd like to hear some first-hand experience.

no firsthand experience, but i could swear i've seen it for sale to
rodders *somewhere*...
it's supposed to raise the boiling point more than ethylene glycol,
and it's much less toxic [it may even be edible!].
probably just as corrosive, though.
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of:	Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh (Sandwich Maker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat May 22 14:41:04 1993
Subject: 1962 Hot Rod Yearbook - Blast from the past
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5412
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 There's another interesting photo in this book.  It is supposed to
be of a Scott fuel injection system.  The car is a twin engined
rail - about half the cars in the book are two or four engined.
The thing has two small block Chevy motors with enclosed chain-driven
superchargers.  I bet those old cast aluminum chain cases would be
worth a pretty penny at the nostalgia meets.  Looking at the engines,
we notice short chromed Chevy valve covers that'd get pocked and dented
by any modern high-lift camshaft, zoomies with tubes maybe 5 inches
long, and magnetoes mounted on the front of the intake.  Eh?  Wait
a sec... what's that peeking off to the left of the blower drive?
A round canister with "AC" plainly visible... the engines are turned
around backwards, taking the final drive off the crank snouts, and the
flywheel flanges are driving the blowers, which are reversed on the
intakes.  Faaar out.  O wonder what they do for flywheels?

 There are also a couple of shots of Potvin kits.  These are regular
6-71 blowers mounted ahead of the engine, driven straight off the
crank.  They suck in one side, then blow out the other.  A casting
accepts two 3" or so diameter pipes running back to a special, very
low intake manifold with two cast-in logs to accept the pipes.  Looks
like it would be very easy to intercool, but you would have a heck of
a time fitting it in anything streetable.  They looked very tuff,
though.

 Another interesting piece is an old Enderle tunnel ram.  A tunnel
ram in 1962?  Yep!  Only... where you'd normally see the plenum, there
are a pair of huge 2.5 or 3" butterflies, one for the front four
cylinders, one for the back.  It looks-a-verra-nahss.  Unfortunately,
the butterflies are on a longitudinal shaft and open right-to-left.
Looks like intake flow would be biased heavily to the left bank for
anything except full throttle.

 There's a photo of Mickey Thompson working on is four-engined
Bonneville streamliner.  He has a flat-top haircut and no shirt, and
at least two largish tattoos.  I never knew MT had tattoos.  Lots of
Moon and MT cast aluminum fuel system pieces, keg type fuel tanks,
fuel tank pumps - these old timers used a bicycle type pump to
pressurize
their fuel tanks.  The Safety Nazis would have convulsions at the
thought now.

 You know how the direct-drive water pumps are the hot thing for
the Chevy roundy-pounders now?  There's a photo of a beautifully
polished cast aluminum Lehman direct-drive pump on the front of a
small block Chevy.  Eat your heart out, Circle Trackers.  How about
those fancy Oberg screen type oil filters?  There's a photo of an
identical filter from Eelco, circa 1962.  Lots of Eelco parts for
Chrysler Hemis, Oldsmobiles, etc. - this was before they went strictly
VW, I guess.

 Lots of photos of multiple carb installations with the ubiquitous
"fuel blocks".  Most of 'em used clear plastic tubing and those sleazy
round wire spring clamps.  Some car show photos, showing fuel and oil
cans in trunks, chromed tire irons, and tool boxes.  Also button-tufted
Naugahyde radiator core covers for when you're at the car show, cars on
display while half-hidden by angel hair, how to build your own
removeable
hardtop (covered in white Naugahyde, with pleated panels), and more.
Oh, remember the craze a couple of years ago for spraying kandy colors
over your chrome parts for the "tinted look"?  Cal Custom was selling
that stuff in 1962.  Looked just as stupid back then too.  Oh, and those
killer Moon spun aluminum wheel covers?  People used to paint spider
webs on them, but I never knew some people painted 'em over like
horrible
Easter eggs.  Yuck.
                                                                                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May 23 14:26:17 1993
Subject: Re:  Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5413
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


jws@mlb.semi.harris.com (James W. Swonger) writes:
" I recall seeing some product announcements for chemically inert coolants; I
"think they were heavily fluorinated hydrocarbons (called Fluorinert I believe).
"The heat transfer was not quite as good as water but the stuff had a pretty
"high boiling point and wouldn't be capable of supporting galvanic corrosion.
"Has anyone ever played with water-less coolants? You'd need something pretty
"low in viscosity but with reasonable heat capacity. A very light mineral oil
"might be suitable (if it didn't want to decompose).

trouble is, water has the best heat capacity of _anything_.
antifreeze boils higher, but has _less_ heat capacity.
freons and fluorinerts generally have pretty minuscule heat capacities.

" Getting away from water based coolant would allow higher operating 
"temperatures while still enforcing some uniformity of temperature (unlike
"water which will form steam pockets allowing local hot spots). 

anything that boils will form 'steam' pockets.  have you already tried
super-pressure [25psi] radiator caps?

water wetter probably is a simple surfactant, but i'd be a little
surprised if it was plain old laundry detergent.
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of:	Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh (Sandwich Maker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May 23 14:35:09 1993
Subject: Re: More on cooling the intake for more power...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5414
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Robert Seymour	 writes:
"Regardless of your system you should use Redline's WatterWetter which reduces the
"surface tension of the water/anti-freeze mixture to prevent hot spots. Try to
"use as little anit-freeze as necessary since it reduces the cooling systems
"ability to transfer heat (but give yourself enough safety margin, frozen coolant
"is not a good thing... ).

from my chemistry days --
water with any significant amount of antifreeze will not freeze solid
above ~-65F; it will freeze *slushy* [which is tough to pump] and the
slush will get thicker as the temp. drops...
so your car is safe until you try to drive it.  then, warm the car up
until you get normal coolant circulation, before you move it.  this
might require you to shut off and restart the engine several times to
keep it from boiling over before the heat thaws the radiator.
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of:	Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh (Sandwich Maker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun May 23 15:36:36 1993
Subject: Re: Miller Cycle engine?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5415
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


cernada@ait.com (Joseph P. Cernada) writes:
"Does anyone have info on "Miller Cycle" engines?  The May 10 Autoweek
"says that Mazda and Honda will be producing them soon.
"
""The engine also has a unique combustion cycle.  While a conventional
"engine has equal-length strokes, Mazda's Miller has a shortened
"combustion stroke because the inlet valves stay open even after the
"pistons begin to rise.  Mazda said the advantage in that design is a
"lower compression ratio but a higher fuel expansion ratio."

sounds like you take your basic high-compression motor, then put in a
cam with a shortish exhaust duration but a *real* long intake
duration and low overlap.  the intake closes well into the compression
stroke, so that the effective compression is greatly reduced...
would this also reduce the effective displacement of the engine?
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of:	Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh (Sandwich Maker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 09:17:18 1993
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5416
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>Distilled water is HIGHLY reactive. DON'T EVER put pure distilled
>water into your cooling system. On the other hand, mixed with
>equal parts of ethylene glycol, you're in good shape.

Given what you say below, it is not the glycol that is important it
is the inhibitors that come with the glycol.  So unless you are after
antifreeze why use glycol at all?

[Because EG also raises the boiling point of the coolant. This is a subtle
point lost on many people.  Bulk cooling isn't the issue in most cases.
The issue is cooling hot spots such as between the valves and around the
exhaust port.  If a hot spot gets hot enough to cause localized film
boiling, that spot get VERY hot because steam is a very poor conductor of
heat.  The higher temperature increases the film thickness which raises
the thermal resistance and so on until some equilibrium is reached or
something breaks.  Such hot spots can cause detonation, burned valve
seats, stuck valve guides and other such nasties.  

Now, raising the pressure in the system with a higher PSI cap directly
helps.  BUT.  Adding glycol is a freebie because it raises the
boiling temperature even higher for a given temperature.  Given all
the benefits from EG coolant, using it is kinda a no-brainer.  Only
if unusual service conditions exist should some alternative be 
investigated.  JGD]


Regards Scott
_______________________________________________________________________________
Scott Fisher [scott@psy.uwa.oz.au]  PH: Aus [61] Perth (9) Local (380 3272).                
                                                             _--_|\       N
Department of Psychology                                    /      \    W + E
University of Western Australia.      Perth [32S, 116E]-->  *_.--._/      S
Nedlands, 6009.  PERTH, W.A.                                      v       

Joy is a Jaguar XJ6 with a flat battery, a blown oil seal and an unsympathetic 
wife, 9km outside of a small remote town, 3:15am on a cold wet winters morning.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!psy.uwa.oz.au!scott (Scott Fisher)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 13:03:57 1993
Subject: coolants...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5417
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Folks,

Since you all want to use water as a coolant due its superior heat
capacity, but don't like the corrosive contributions it makes why not look
around at your nearest Cummins dealer for 'Cummins DCA'.  This is an
anti-corrosive additive targetted at engines operated in a tropical climate 
where antifreeze would be difficult to obtain.  It contains anti-corrosion
and waterpump lubrication additives.  This sounds like it might be just
what you all seem to be looking for.

Walt K.
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 13:12:29 1993
Subject: Top radiaotr hose collapeses
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5418
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Guys

First off sorry about the spelling, new workstation....

Now to the problem:
	1980 Ford Bronco, tow vehicle for the toys...
	I have a top radiator hose that collapses after an hour or
	so of normal use(not towing) ....seem to remember this as a
	symptom....

	Over the past weeks the temp gauge has been creeping up...hoses
	are only 5-6 months old, new thermostat and water pump....



Any ideas ???


dave

	
--
Dave Dabay  Telecommunications Network Supervisor    703-831-5482   KD3PC
Radford University Computer Services	Internet: ddabay@ruacad.ac.runet.edu

----------
Posted by: dave dabay 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 13:21:30 1993
Subject: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5419
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  This might be pushing the list charter a bit, but if you have a problem
with it just give me a buzz, John.  I figure you folks, sharing common
interests and all, as well as possessing more than the average bear's
share of computer knowledge, would be a good knowledge base for my
quest.

[As long as you plan on parking HOTRODS in that garage... :-)  JGD]

  Given the chance to build your own garage, what would you do?  Dimensions,
special goodies like a mounting location for an engine hoist, workbench
design, stuff like that.

  I've got something in mind around 40'x30' that would fit 4 cars with
room for a work bench on one side, but am open to suggestions.

  Also, anybody have any recommendations for a simple houseplans design
program, with pre-made plans that could be altered and printed to take
along to the county permit office?  I don't need full-featured CAD, just
a shareware-type thing.

  Ron "Thanks" Rader

[I've been looking this situation myself.  I'm outta Marietta just as 
soon as I can sell this pad.  My plans are to buy some acrage out somewhere
where they don't even know what the word "zoning" means, erect a 6-8 bay 
building, move the magazine to the building and live in one section while
we build a house.  This has to be cheap since I'm broke so that's what I've
been paying attention to.

One of the cheapest quality constructions is metal-sheathed post-&-beam,
barn-style.  A friend just built a two story, approx 2500 sq ft two bay
garage and had he not poured the Mother of all slabs for a floor, would
have cost under $7000.  The traditional metal building is also fairly
cheap, particularly compared to traditional wood.  I've also discovered
that there is a fair trade in used metal buildings.  Not a bad deal at
all if you want to get in real cheap and don't mind having to paint it
or do minor repairs.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 13:32:22 1993
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5420
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>[Because EG also raises the boiling point of the coolant. This is a subtle
>point lost on many people.  Bulk cooling isn't the issue in most cases.
>The issue is cooling hot spots such as between the valves and around the
>exhaust port.  If a hot spot gets hot enough to cause localized film
>boiling, that spot get VERY hot because steam is a very poor conductor of
>heat.  The higher temperature increases the film thickness which raises
>the thermal resistance and so on until some equilibrium is reached or
>something breaks.  Such hot spots can cause detonation, burned valve
>seats, stuck valve guides and other such nasties.  
>
>Now, raising the pressure in the system with a higher PSI cap directly
>helps.  BUT.  Adding glycol is a freebie because it raises the
>boiling temperature even higher for a given temperature.  Given all
>the benefits from EG coolant, using it is kinda a no-brainer.  Only
>if unusual service conditions exist should some alternative be 
>investigated.  JGD]
>

Hold on a second, John - Due to its lower heat capacity, EG ends up raising
the internal temperature.  According to Redline's (advertising) numbers, this
rise in internal temperature is on the order of the rise in boiling point, so
you effectively have no improvement or degradation on the high temp end by
using EG.  Are Redline's numbers fudged, or is EG really only useful as
anti-freeze?

David Wright

[I've not seen Redline's propaganda.  What I use is experience, SAE standards,
what professional tuners do and experimentation.  You'll not see any
pro tuner, from Indy cars to IMSA, not use anti-freeze.  There is a reason.
A simple experiment will illustrate the effect.  Get a Caldrod heater such
as a water heater element or even one of those little coffee cup heating
elements.  Attach a thermocouple.  Plop it in a basin of your fluid of 
interest, turn it on and note the temperature when it reaches an equilibrium.
At equilibrium, this models the situation in a head quite well.  Try
50-50 antifreeze and then pure water.  The antifreeze cooled element will
get a LITTLE hotter but not much.  Now crank up the heat flux (use a higher
wattage element, for example) until film boiling occurs.  Not how tremendously
hotter the element gets.  Avoiding film boiling is paramount.

The most telling evidence is actual experience.  The limiting factor with
the turbocharged Datsun engines I build is cooling.  This manifests itself
as delayed onset of detonation during full throttle running and as bulk
overheating after extended running.  I know from experimenting that raising
the coolant pressure raises the boost pressure at which delayed detonation
occurs.  I also know from experimentation that pure water - even distilled
water directly from my still - is significantly worse than 50-50 antifreeze.
I have NOT experimented with other concentrations.  That would be 
most interesting.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 13:37:20 1993
Subject: Re: old photo
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5421
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I was flipping through a 1962 Hot Rod Annual a few minutes ago.  On
>Page 49 there's a most interesting photograph, purportedly showing a
>tubular chassis.
>
...
>
> Alas, I have absolutely no clue as to what this car is!  What long
>wheelbase, mid-engined, full-bodied, Chevy-powered racing sports cars
>ran in 1961-1962?  I've never even seen a picture of one of Lance
>Reventlow's Scarabs - could this be a Scarab?  It's approximately the
>right year.
>                  
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

Sounds like the CHERV I. Chevrolet Engineering Research Vehicle I was
made up by Chevy engineering as a project car.  The original magazine
article (and this is from posisbly faulty 30 year old memory) touted the 
fact that the aluminium block 327 put out 350 hp while weighing only
350 lbs. One hp per pound was big news in a v8 engine in those days.
I don't think it was ever raced but some of the engineering was used
in the Corvette stingray's that were raced at Sebring.

The Scarab's were front engined sports racing cars that were totally
different from the CHERV I. I saw the Scarabs race a couple of times
and I still think they are the best looking cars I've ever seen. I have
some great memories of Augie Pabst and Lance Reventlow power sliding
the Scarabs around the infield course at Wis. State Fair Park.

----------
Posted by: Chuck Weber 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 17:33:54 1993
Subject: Re: Top radiaotr hose collapeses
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5422
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

How about getting one with a spring inside to keep it in it's intended shape.
Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 17:42:43 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5423
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 24, 13:19, The Hotrod List wrote:
>   Given the chance to build your own garage, what would you do?  Dimensions,
> special goodies like a mounting location for an engine hoist, workbench
> design, stuff like that.
>
> [I've been looking this situation myself.  I'm outta Marietta just as
> soon as I can sell this pad.  My plans are to buy some acrage out somewhere
> where they don't even know what the word "zoning" means, erect a 6-8 bay
> building, move the magazine to the building and live in one section while
> we build a house.  This has to be cheap since I'm broke so that's what I've
> been paying attention to.
>
> One of the cheapest quality constructions is metal-sheathed post-&-beam,
> barn-style.  A friend just built a two story, approx 2500 sq ft two bay
> garage and had he not poured the Mother of all slabs for a floor, would
> have cost under $7000.  The traditional metal building is also fairly
> cheap, particularly compared to traditional wood.  I've also discovered
> that there is a fair trade in used metal buildings.  Not a bad deal at
> all if you want to get in real cheap and don't mind having to paint it
> or do minor repairs.  JGD]
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)



Addons:

1) Sandblast booth large enough for an entire car.

2) Paint booth large enough for an entire car.

3) Cleanroom for engine assembly.

I don't recommend using the same area for #1 and #3. :-)

-Bob



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 17:51:52 1993
Subject: Re:  Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5424
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I just built my first dream garage (well, I'm actually finishing it up right
now.)  I built it 24' x 46', four bay doors and a single person entrance on
one end.  Each door is 8'x8', with a 3' wide person door to handle large
objects.  It is a one story building, but the upper half is the same height
as the lower half, so I can put in a second story with slanted ceilings if I
want (read: loft to store junk in. :) )  I say first dream garage, because
I already have plans to fill the whole thing, so I may want another.  
Unfortunately, I couldn't really go much bigger without getting on the bad
side of the building inspector as the town by-laws I live in will only allow
housing for 5 vehicles in my zoning, and I was pushing it with that size as
far as he was concerned.

After everything is all said and done, I spent roughly $8500 (including $1500
for the slab.)  I did all the work myself, right down to designing the plans,
renting a backhoe, leveling the land, digging the foundation trench, laying
the foundation, framing, roofing, trim and siding.  Well, I did get some help
from some friends (amazing what work you can get done for a case of beer :) )
but I can safely say that I built everything myself, with help when I needed
it.  And boy, did I need it in places. :) :)

The garage leaves lots of room between each car, and the one end there is
about 6 feet of spare space for workbenches, etc.  It was designed with no
posts in the middle of the floor anywhere, so it is all open space.  I designed
it using MacDraw on the Macintosh, and just went to the building inspector,
wrote a little note on why I wanted such a garage, gave him my drawings, and
he gave me a permit.  It's taken me a while, but I've been building the whole
thing myself, so it's worth it.  

First project in it is rebuilding my '79 Bronco, then rebuilding my big blocks
and finding homes for them (my '84 Camaro is getting one, but I haven't decided
which to put in first, the 396 or the 454. :) )

Anyway, if you can, build your own garage to suit your own tastes.  I know
I'll outgrow mine quick, but hey, I have enough land to build another if I can
convince them to let me (and my budget allows!) :) :)

-- Steve

   Steven T McClure     ex-'84 GPZ 750 Turbo pilot       stm0@gte.com
GTE Government Systems         DoD #0425              
  Needham, Ma. 02194            /*  Insert standard disclaimer here. */
Beta software: 'beta than nothing, and that's usually all it is...

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 18:01:23 1993
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol. 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5425
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

JGD sez:

	I also know from experimentation that pure water - even distilled
	water directly from my still - is significantly worse than
50-50 			
	antifreeze. I have NOT experimented with other concentrations.  That 
	would be most interesting. 

One of the bits of accumulated wisdome for keeping old Triumph (cars)
running cool is to use a 75-25 mix of deionized water and ethylene
glycol. The theory is that this provides the protection of the glycol
(and raised boiling point) without sacrificing as much of the specific
heat as a 50-50 mix does. I don't have any numbers handy (but I can
look for them when I get home), but it's probably a worthwhile experiment.

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 18:08:15 1993
Subject: Re: Miller Cycle engine?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5426
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 22,  3:34, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: Miller Cycle engine?
>
> -> How do they controll the air fuel mixture.  It seem that this setup
> -> would really screw up a carburated system, with some of the air
> -> moving forward, back, and forward past the carb.  Even with port
> -> injection it seems like the air/fuel ratio would get messed up a
> -> little.
>
>  Oh, it DOES.  You need a large plenum volume for carbureted engines,
> and volume helps isolate the MAP and MAF on injected motors.  The best
> possible system for such a an engine would be a speed-density rig with
> some sort of waveform smoothing on the MAP sensor.
>
>  The strong reversion pulses mean that fuel will still be blown back
> into the intake system even with port injection, since the air is
> flowing OUT of the chamber when the valve closes.  This means you're
> handling wet fuel flow PLUS the injectors, so you'd be running a
> carb-type intake designed to handle wet flow.
>
>
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from The Hotrod List



I think this is an appropriate example...

On my 5.0HO mustang, carbon builds up in the intake all the way to
the throttle butterfly.

-Bob

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 18:13:16 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5427
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>   Given the chance to build your own garage, what would you do?  Dimensions,
> special goodies like a mounting location for an engine hoist, workbench
> design, stuff like that.
> 
>   I've got something in mind around 40'x30' that would fit 4 cars with
> room for a work bench on one side, but am open to suggestions.


Depending on your preferences, one bay should have either a pit or
a lift.  I've seen some lifts which winch up two rails after you
have driven onto the rails; these might actually be affordable.

I would include enough ventilation so that I could run engines in
the garage for extended periods.  Of course, the garage would have
at least one 50 amp 240 volt circuit for the arc welder and probably
two 30 amp 240 volt circuits for big power tools, air compressor, etc.
And a lot of 20 amp 120 volt circuits.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 18:17:40 1993
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5428
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> [ JGD writes ] I also know from experimentation that pure water - even distilled
> water directly from my still - is significantly worse than 50-50 antifreeze.
> I have NOT experimented with other concentrations.  That would be 
> most interesting.  JGD]

I once had a car with very marginal cooling.  I found that a 1/3
antifreeze and 2/3 distilled water mix worked a lot better than
either a 50/50 mix or plain water.  The antifreeze containers used
to have a chart which showed concentration versus freezing protection
but I haven't seen those charts for years.  Now they all seem to say
use a 50/50 mix.  It figures; that means more profit for them.

BTW, I finally fixed that cooling problem by changing the heads on
the engine.  Helped the power and mileage, too.  The original heads
were a low-turbulence open design and the replacements were Chevy
202 FI heads.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)



----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 18:22:46 1993
Subject: 6 speed transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5429
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 

Has anyone purchased the new BorgWarner/Doug Nash 6 speed transmission,  
that Summit racing is remarketing? I had my heart set on the five speed  
and running a medium gear ratio, but the idea of having my cake and eating  
it too is pretty appealing. Has anyone seen better pricing than the  
2800.00 price tag Summit wants? I was having a difficult time convincing  
the better half that we really needed the new 5 speed for 1400.00+. Double  
that and I am way out on a limb.

If you have purchased it, what did the shifter set you back? What gear  
ratio did you end up with in the rear end? How's gate on the tranny.

--
Paul Bleimeyer
Mayo Foundation
Rochester, MN 55905
bleimeyp@mayo.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!wolf.mayo.edu!bleimeyp (Paul Bleimeyer)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 18:27:11 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5430
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 - Dave Williams -
Thanks for sharing your inspection of the circa 1962 mid-engine
racer chassis with us over the network news.  Solid rotors and 
fixed calipers with two opposing pistons were standard on the 
Avanti which appeared in the showrooms in 1962.  This brake 
technology came from Jaguars and Mercedes.  The coil-over-shock
suspensions were used on (Standard-)Triumph Spitfires and Heralds
of the same era.
				Rhett George

----------
Posted by: Dr. R. T. George 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 18:32:35 1993
Subject: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5431
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Given the chance to build your own garage, what would you do?
-> Dimensions, special goodies like a mounting location for an engine
-> hoist, workbench design, stuff like that.

 I just built one last summer.  It's on a 20x35' concrete slab, framed
on 2x6s on 16" centers, ten feet tall, and uses 7-element trusses to
support the roof.  It was originally intended to be 3 cars plus a bench.
I changed it to two cars plus a work area.

 The trusses and walls freaked the building inspector (I had to get a
variance to build the freaking thing...).  You can latch onto any piece
of timber anywhere and yank a big block without even a creak.  I went a
little crazy, I guess.  Commercial trusses are put together with gang
nails.  Mine have big plywood panels on each side of each joint, held by
a handful of screws and big gobs of construction adhesive.  I even glued
and screwed the plywood sheathing onto the skeleton, though I used
ordinary nails to hold the siding on.


 Anyway, here are my ideas:

1) leave room to work!  I planned for one garage queen and one bay to
   use for maintenance, and left the rest open for future use.  This
   room has already been encroached on my an engine lathe and (as soon
   as I go get it) a milling machine.

2) Let there be light!  Use LOTS of flourescent lights.  Switch them
   all individually to keep the light where you need it, so the power
   company doesn't have to declare a windfall profit statement.

[YES!!!!!  Spend the extra bux on high efficiency units too.  The builder
that rebuilt my house after the fire did NOT replace my lights with
high efficiency.  Ga Power paid extra dividends the first month I was
back in the house.  Over $600 on the old power bill.  Zounds!!!  I didn't
use the lights the next month and illuminated the office with a single
250 watt mercury vapor stand-light I built.  The bill was down to the 
more usual $400 a month for summertime.  I'm changing the ballasts
as I can afford it.

If you can afford it and have a high ceiling, 175 watt metal-halide lamps in 
broad dispersal fixtures are much cheaper to operate and the light is MUCH
nicer for working with metal.  One or two will illuminate a whole bay.  JGD]

3) make sure there's proper ventilation for painting, degreasing,
   welding, etc.

4) windows are just entry points for theives, and don't admit much
   useable light anyway

5) plan for paint or linoleum on the floor.  It'll last a lot longer
   than you think, particularly if you put some pieces of plywood down
   before you put down your car stands.  No more concrete ass from
   sliding around.

[I did my shop floors with Epoxy floor paint after the fire.  A 2
gallon set (one each of hardner and resin) cost $100 but did a whole bay.
This stuff is slicker'n greased owl snot, is resistant to every chemical
known to man and makes sliding things around feel like they are on rollers.
Awhile back I spilled a gallon of nitro on the floor.  It ran over onto the
part that was merely painted and not epoxyed.  That paint came up 
right down to the concrete.  The epoxy paint wasn't even de-glossed.
An added benefit I hadn't thought of before I did the floor is that
I rarely use a creeper.  It is so slick I just slide in on my back.
Strangely enough, rubber-soled shoes get a real good grip.  JGD]

6) put in LOTS of electrical outlets - I have one every four feet,
   on two different circuits, alternating.  They're also 48" high,
   so I don't have to crawl under things to plug stuff in

7) run an air manifold - I ran 1" ID 400psi PVC pipe, with a takeoff
   every 8 feet.  That way I can use short air hoses and not have to
   trip over them all the time.

[Circle track magazine ran a piece a couple of years ago on this.  They
summarized a number of accidents caused by PVC piping that had been
weakened by stuff the air compressor had sucked in and had burst.  Apparently
the shards are hazardous.  This warning regarded ordinary PVC water pipe so 
it may not be as big a concern with your system.  I found it just as cheap to 
install soldered copper tubing in my shop.  I ran 1" tubing around the shop
and installed a ball valve on each tap so I could unload the hose without
having to uncouple it.  A BIG side benefit is the added volume such a system
brings to the plate.  I computed the volume of mine at about 20 gallons.
That adds a lot of reserve to my 60 gal 5 hp compressor.  I'd have run larger
pipe had I been able to buy it cheaply.  JGD]

8) run a couple of power plugs and air fittings OUTSIDE, too

9) don't forget 220v - lots of welders and most machine tools are
   switchable 110/220 or 220 only, like my compressor

10) put the compressor OUTSIDE to save your eardrums

11) intercom and remote doorbell from the house

12) mine has 5 runs of 6-conductor twisted pair, three coax lines
    (Ethernet, spare, cable TV, two phones, etc)  Also wall plates
    for all this stuff - the shop nearly has a wiring harness!

13) run a water line out if possible.  Good for washing hands, parts,
    etc.  If you can get a crapper out there, even better.  I was going
    to pass on that, but it looks like I'll be tearing and house down
    and building another one soon, so I'll be living in the shop for a
    while.

14) something STRONG to hook onto for pulling motors - I designed my
    trusses for anything, and eventually I'll have an X-Y gantry rig
    and a power winch to lift and move engines anywhere in a 20x8 area.
    I specifically did NOT want a cherry picker - they take up space,
    and your friends always want to borrow them.

15) go as large as you can possibly afford.  In my case, I ran out of
    space to build on before I ran out of ambition.  No matter how big
    it is, it'll wind up stuffed like a fat lady's suitcase.  


-> have cost under $7000.  The traditional metal building is also fairly
-> cheap, particularly compared to traditional wood.

 That varies by region.  The best price I found for a metal building was
$9500.  I (over)built in wood for $3500.

[yep.  I live in the land of $3.95 8 ft 2X4s so metal is attractive.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 18:39:22 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5432
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 24,  1:14pm, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: Dream Garage
>   This might be pushing the list charter a bit, but if you have a problem
> with it just give me a buzz, John.  I figure you folks, sharing common
> interests and all, as well as possessing more than the average bear's
> share of computer knowledge, would be a good knowledge base for my
> quest.
> 
> [As long as you plan on parking HOTRODS in that garage... :-)  JGD]
> 
>   Given the chance to build your own garage, what would you do?  Dimensions,
> special goodies like a mounting location for an engine hoist, workbench
> design, stuff like that.
> 
>   I've got something in mind around 40'x30' that would fit 4 cars with
> room for a work bench on one side, but am open to suggestions.
> 
>   Ron "Thanks" Rader
> 
> Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
>
Ron here are a couple of thoughts.
 **Plan for your air compressor and the air delivery in your new shop. Go for
   a 60 gallon 5 HP 220volt.
 **Plan your electrical so you can have a convenient 220 40 to 50 amp welding
   circuit where you want it.
 **I would go for a roll around engine crane which can be disassembled.  Much
   versatile and besides you can loan it to your hot rod buddies.
 **Plan for overhead storage in the rafters. Consider a folddown stair so you
   stow your bits and pieces.
 **Consider a small room of the garage that can be setup as a small paint booth
   Great way to deal with small parts.  My friend has one in his shop at home.
 **Pits are sometime nice additions if planed for correctly. 
 **Plan for the lighting over the parking stalls and the benches.
 **Electrical outlets--everywhere!
 **built in cabinets for storage and a couple of bookshelves too!
 **Telephone, TV, radio, computer locations and connections.
 **Deepsink with hot and cold water for cleanup.
Just a few thoughts.

  


-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive(brattlan@speedway.net| ( Ford 302 Tri-Power  
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   | 4 spd, 9 inch )
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 18:44:25 1993
Subject: Re: Top radiaotr hose collapeses
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5433
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I had a similar problem with a flathead '53 Ford.  Even brand new hoses
would collapse.  Solved the problem by inserting light gauge wire spring
coils, same diameter as inside diameter of hose, inside hose...no more
collapse.

Hope this helps.

Dick

----------
Posted by: emory!asuacad.bitnet!IFRAM
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 19:00:57 1993
Subject: Re: Top radiaotr hose collapeses
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5434
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


It sounds as though the thermostat is not opening, even though it may
be new. If it is easy to get to the easiest thing to do is to remove
it and drop it in a pan of boiling water and see if it will open. If 
not it is pobably defective. The temperature rating is often stamped
on the thermostat as well - you may want to check it to see if it is 
the correct temperate for your car. I have purchased a bad thermostat
before with the same type of symptom. I have also hade the wire that
holds the hose in shape rust thru and jam the thermostat so that it
will not open. If you suspect the thermostat you could remove it entirly
and put the hose back on. It will run fine and you can easily see if the
problem persists.
You could also just disconnect the hose and see if water is coming thru
but be very careful - the water will be extremely hot and worse would be
steam generated when the pressure is released.
The down side is it could be a block in the water jacket of the engine.
But if you find this is the problem don't give up to quickly. Get a 
radiator flush kit, the type with the parts you splice into your hoses
and try back flushing the system.

----------
Posted by: emory!sr.hp.com!bault (Bob Ault)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 19:06:45 1993
Subject: Plain ol' removal of Catalytic
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5435
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                               - - Mail - - 
         May 21, 1993         10:15am    
   FROM: Paul Donnelly II                
     TO: Persons of Interest             
SUBJECT: Plain ol' removal of Catalytic  

Barring any Emission control legal violations (I don't live in an area 
where
they check for anything).  Is it possible/a good idea to just plain remove
the catalytic converter from a computer car?  

Most of the Hot Rodding I've done has been on non-computer (and for that 
matter non-emission vehicles) and I am unsure as to whether the computer 
will freak out upon removal of the cat'.

The vehicle in question is a 1990 454SS Pickup (Chev), I imagine there 
would be a perceivable performance improvement upon removal, or are the 
catalytic converters good enough these days that I may not notice?

[I doubt you'd notice a lot of difference and if you did, the WOT mixture
would likely be hosed.  Given marginal gains, I'd leave it in place. JGD]


Paul Donnelly II  --  paul.donnelly@metrokc.gov
Network Engineer - Municipality of Metropolitan Seattle

* 1971 Chevelle Convertible
* 1983 Camaro
* 1990 454SS Pickup
----------
Posted by: Paul Donnelly II 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 21:28:43 1993
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5436
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 24, John DeArmond wrote:

> I've not seen Redline's propaganda.  What I use is experience, SAE standards,
> what professional tuners do and experimentation.  You'll not see any
> pro tuner, from Indy cars to IMSA, not use anti-freeze.

Man, I hate to argue with you on your own list, John- but this
sweeping generalization is wrong. There are a number of pro tuners
who do not use glycol, in Indycars, IMSA, NASCAR, and other
categories. I would go so far as to say that the vast majority of F1
teams do not use glycol. They make it work for a number of reasons,
but one major one is safety. That stuff is slick as snot when dumped
on the track, and it does not evaporate or get absorbed by the
pavement- it just lays there being slick. Given that an F1 car pukes
about 50% of its coolant and oil load over the course of an event, the
grip gets pretty dodgy even using pure water.

I spent a good many hours in the Jaguar pits at the 1990 Daytona 24
Hours (when I was off shift at my turn), and watched them play their
fun and games with their cooling systems. They kept breaking waterpump
drives, and eventually killed the block by overheating. Similarly, the
privateer Nissan right next door (Busby, I think, bought the '89 Elvis
chassis), and had problems after hitting some debris and holing the
radiator. Both were running without glycol. The Jags mixed in some
sort of soluble oil, and eventually tried the old NASCAR trick of
mixing in some sodium silicate solution, but there was no antifreeze
to be seen. And I'd credit both teams with having some significant
development work in.

Antifreeze has its place, but IMHO the racetrack isn't one of them.
There are better ways to lube the water pump, control corrosion, and
fix heating problems. If the only way you can get your motors to live
is by using glycol, go for it! But it's not the ideal solution to the
problem, nor is it the universal solution. Glycol coolant mixes are
not permitted in AMA motorcycle competition for a good reason...

-skod

--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and sometimes driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@sun.COM

[  Hey, don't worry about arguing with me.  I can take it :-)

I'll back off relative to F1 because I don't have any first-hand experience.
That's far enough from anything we're likely to ever do that it doesn't
much matter.  I do know for a fact that every car I had a chance to look
at at the GP of Atlanta uses antifreeze.  That goes for GTP cars (all 7 of
'em), Camel lites, super cars and Formula firehawk, formula saab (that Zerex
sponsors 'em probably has nothing to do with it :-), and formula ford.
I found it surprising enough to see the bright green coolant dripping from
engines being removed from cars that I started taking notice.  Not because
I expected to see pure water but because I expected something exotic 
like propylene glycol.  

I know you don't like antifreeze in racing cars.  My opinion is different but
those are both just opinions.  I think the technical merits for some mix
of antifreeze and water are strong enough that it will be around for quite
some time.  it's not THAT much less slick than plain old water or water
with an additive package.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Scott.Griffith (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 21:36:32 1993
Subject: RE: Need advise about restricting Mass Air Sensor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5437
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>I have a 4" MAS and I think that the size is causing a large bog in my
>acceleration. It feels just like I'm running a dominator carb, far too
>much area across the metering device to attain adequate pressure drop.
>My idea is to restrict the MAS from 4" down to 3-1/2". My computer allows
>for a complete range of fuel calibration so I don't think that there should 
>be a problem with just recalibrating the unit to match the new airflow.
>The new pressure drop should be sufficient to motivate the sensor much 
>quicker than it has been.

>Is there a problem that I am over-looking here?

>Mucho Gracias'

>Millam

The MAS doesn't control the air flow the throttle plate does.  Make sure you've 
callibrated the MAS for the injectors your using.

Dirk




----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 24 23:32:44 1993
Subject: Garage Sizes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5438
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

My garage is 30 X 28 deep and has plenty of depth for  a 68 Roadrunner
with lawn equipment parked behind it, a workbench in front of it and
6 feet of depth to spare.  The only change I would recommend is to add
WIDTH as you cannot work around the left of car #1 or the right of car #3
except to get in or out.  The extra width would be for clearance for
body/paint/buffing or just working around the wheel wells.  I would
allocate 14 feet of width per car.  Also, if you put up waterproof
(green) sheetrock and setup one bay as a stall with a drain, you
can have your own indoor car wash; real handy in the winter.
Also, depending on real estate considerations, those neat looking
floor lifts that let you stack cars need about 10 feet vertical to stack
anything other than Ferraris.  Of course, keep your compressor OUTSIDE and
plumb the shop for air and 220.  Fluorescent lights should be deployed 
everywhere, including some on the walls if you do much critical paint
finishing in the shop.

My .02
Ned Wilmarth

----------
Posted by: NED 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 09:01:41 1993
Subject: '66 Galaxie cooling, brakes, suspension
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5439
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



   For the last few years I've messed with old Fords, mostly restoring
them.  My latest acquisition is a '66 Galaxie 500.  There's nothing 
special about the car so I won't feel guilty about modifying it.
However, I'm kinda new at this, so if someone out there could help me
out with a few suggestions, I would really appreciate it.

   First of all, the current radiator is shot and needs to be replaced.
It's a 2-core radiator.  About 17"x22", I believe.  I'm suprised that this
could adequately cool the 390 that was originally in the car, but it looks
like it's the original radiator.  The car currently has a 351W, but I plan
to replace it with a 429 eventually.  So I need a radiator that will be
able to keep a 429 cool.  Can anyone suggest another car that might have a 
similar sized radiator but in either a 3-core or 4-core?  Or is there 
someplace that will custom build radiators?

   My next two priorities are going to be updating the brakes and the
suspension.   The car currently has 4-wheel drum brakes, no power.  
I want to add power brakes, disc on the front, and maybe even disc
on the rear.  Can anyone recommend a source for getting the parts or
kit that I would need to do this?

   I also plan on rebuilding the suspension with polyurethane parts
from Just Suspension and adding front and rear sway bars.  Any comments
on this?  Is there something I could do better here, or anything about
this that I shouldn't do?

   Any suggestions/advice/comments would really be appreciated!   

   A note to the moderator:  I've tried to subscribe to this list from
my "real" account, but I have never been able to get a response from your
server.  My e-mail address is sysprog@morekypr.morehead-st.edu or
sysprog@morekypr.bitnet.  Any ideas why I can't get a response?
I would much rather access this list/newsgroup from there.  My access to
this site is rather slow....

Larry Estep					ak512@yfn.ysu.edu
* '70 Cobra Torino, 429				sysprog@morekypr.bitnet
* '70 Cobra Torino, 429CJ			sysprog@morekypr.morehead-st.edu
* '66 Galaxie 500, 351W(temporary!)	

----------
Posted by: emory!yfn.ysu.edu!ak512 (Larry Estep)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 09:08:34 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5440
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> racer chassis with us over the network news.  Solid rotors and
-> fixed calipers with two opposing pistons were standard on the
-> Avanti which appeared in the showrooms in 1962.  This brake
-> technology came from Jaguars and Mercedes.  The coil-over-shock
-> suspensions were used on (Standard-)Triumph Spitfires and Heralds of
-> the same era.

 All true.  I was trying to point out, though, that it was rather
unusual to see them all combined on one car, particularly a homebuilt.
Most homebuilts were about like Max Balchowsky's homebuilt Ole Yeller
cars, or the Cunninghams, etc.

 BTW, yesterday I found an Avanti sitting behind a shed in North Little
Rock, Arkansas.  The '63 Lark and '53 Hawk made me suspect I'd found a
Studebaker fan.  
                                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 09:16:26 1993
Subject: 6 speed transmissions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5441
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Has anyone purchased the new BorgWarner/Doug Nash 6 speed
-> transmission, that Summit racing is remarketing?

 Nope, but the German box in the Corvette has a 50% overdrive.  Shift
Jay's ragtop into high and the engine goes "fub."
                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 09:23:11 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5442
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Depending on your preferences, one bay should have either a pit or a
-> lift.  I've seen some lifts which winch up two rails after you

   I just passed up a chance to buy a Bean optical wheel aligner
for $500.  The main cabinet is maybe ten feet long, and the guts have to
be installed in a fair-sized pit.  The thing is all there, in excellent
condition, and even has most of the optional accessories, but I ain't
got no place to PUT the thing.  WARGH!
                                                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 09:27:05 1993
Subject: Re: Garage Sizes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5443
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well my suggestion is to go as large as you can before you end up with me 
situation.  When I originally designed my house I included a 24 X 32 foot
attached garage.  Between my wife and the builder they talked me into a
24 X 28 attached garage.  Since then we have gone from two cars mine and
my wifes, to 4 cars my project car, my daily car, my wifes car, and my sons
car.  Next year we will probably have a 5th naimly my daughters car.  Well
the simple solution for me was to build a unattached 24 X 42 foot garage.
Unfortunatly the township rejected my plans claiming the the maximum
size of an unattached building is 300 square feet.  My senond option of adding
a 24 X 24 foot area to my present attached garage was also rejected because
it would exceed the maximum size for an attached garage of 1/4 the square 
footage of the house.  There for the only way I can enlarge my garage is to
enlarge my house first or at the same time.  And believe me it is a lot 
cheaper to add a 576 square foot garage then to put a 2,200 square foot 
addition on your house that you don't even need.  Present estimates are:
	2,200 addition  	$98,000.
	24 X 24 garage addition	 $9,000. 
	20 X 15 added garage     $6,500.
		TOTAL          $113,000.

Well for now my options appear to either move which I cannot afford or to
store my cars under canvans.


dennis
  

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 15:37:36 1993
Subject: Re: Evils of Glycol.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5444
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com writes:
"Now, raising the pressure in the system with a higher PSI cap directly
"helps.  BUT.  Adding glycol is a freebie because it raises the
"boiling temperature even higher for a given temperature.  Given all
"the benefits from EG coolant, using it is kinda a no-brainer.  Only
"if unusual service conditions exist should some alternative be 
"investigated.  JGD

glycol raises the boiling point but _lowers_ the heat capacity of the
cooling system.  i had a vivid demonstration of this about 7 years
ago: my heater hose rotted out inside and blew off the water pump on
the highway while i was driving home one warmish winter.  i limped to
the next exit and gas station, topped off the system with water,
crossed my fingers, and drove around for the next two weeks with no
recurrence while i shopped for antifreeze.
as soon as i refilled the system with antifreeze, *bang* the hose blew
off again!  that's when i looked at it real hard and discovered the
rot.
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of:	Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh (Sandwich Maker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 15:41:46 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5445
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com writes:
"If you can afford it and have a high ceiling, 175 watt metal-halide lamps in 
"broad dispersal fixtures are much cheaper to operate and the light is MUCH
"nicer for working with metal.  One or two will illuminate a whole bay.  JGD

do you mean 'metalarc' [scandium vapor] or tungsten-halogen?  metalarc
lamps have efficiency and life comparable to mercury- and
sodium-vapor though more expensive, but THE BEST color rendition -
better than tungsten and comparable to daylight.

[Yes, the metal-arc tubes, not sodium vapor or Quartz-halogen  JGD]
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of:	Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh (Sandwich Maker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 15:46:42 1993
Subject: Re: '66 Galaxie cooling, brakes, suspension
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5446
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a '69 Galaxie and need a new throttle cable for it.  I've tried the
local junkyards without any luck.  Do you know where I might be able to get
hold of one?

Thanks

Ender

----------
Posted by: emory!kraft.apdev.cs.mci.com!ender (Ender_Wiggin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 15:50:36 1993
Subject: Dream Garage Bits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5447
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  Thanks to all and sundry for the suggestions and observations wrt
garage tips.  I'm saving it all for posterity, now let's hope I can
come up with something presentable for the county inspector.  Keep
them coming!

  Still looking for a basic CAD program for messing around with plans...
if you've ever seen me with a pencil, you'd know why ;) .

  Ron "Big Honkin' Garage" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 15:55:25 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5448
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I helped my dad build part of a dream garage, but the divorce put a stop
to it.

We made a 30 x 40 building with 14' to the bottom of the second floor.  No
posts.  We were planning to put a few pipes ( like 2" ) vertically in the 
floor for frame pulling, and general hold down.  We were going to put in a
lift, and a couple of big sections of railroad track just sticking through
the concrete.  ( want something not to move?  weld it to the track, then
cut it off later. )

Second floor is a 12 pitch in front with two 8' hipped dormers, and a shed
in the back to a 8' ceiling.  We made up all custom trusses so there are no 
posts on the second floor either.  There is a 4'x8' "tile" on the
second floor, and we made a roll around gantry to just fit up there.
A winch is mounted on it, and things can be lifted off a trailer right
up to the second floor ( like a motorcycle for the winter, or a motor
to work on. )

One of the 3 bays is drive through, with big doors.

It has water, and a 200 amp service.  Ideally, the compressor would
have been in the trusses on the second floor, way out of the way.

In my garage, but not there, I have used those $10 300 watt exterior
halogen lights.   They work great.  Good spectrum, cheap to install.

All the steel was scrap, and all the wood was new.  He and I did most
of it, except for the steel erection -- needed a crane.  Yes, we set
up the steel for dollies.

Quick rule of thumb for steel.  One inch of web for one foot of span
produces a floor that is adequately stiff.  Less means bounce.  We put
26" web for a 30' span -- its not a trampoline, but it does bounce.




	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 17:27:06 1993
Subject: Garage Sizes
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5449
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> plumb the shop for air and 220.  Fluorescent lights should be
-> deployed everywhere, including some on the walls if you do much
-> critical paint finishing in the shop.

 A friend works at a place without a lift, so he has to do front-end
work on the floor.  He says he'd kill for some flourescent lights set
into the wall to illuminate under the car - that drop lights are always
in your way.  (true)
                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 18:27:09 1993
Subject: Re: '66 Galaxie cooling, brakes, suspension
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5450
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On May 25,  3:32pm, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: Re: '66 Galaxie cooling, brakes, suspension
> I have a '69 Galaxie and need a new throttle cable for it.  I've tried the
> local junkyards without any luck.  Do you know where I might be able to get
> hold of one?
> Ender
> Posted by: emory!kraft.apdev.cs.mci.com!ender (Ender_Wiggin)
>-- End of excerpt from The Hotrod List
Ender, try Obsolete  Ford Parts Inc., 6601 B S Shields Oklahoma City,
OK 73149 405 631-8988/631 3933(Obsolete and Dales Manufacturing are one
in the same.
Also, try Galaxie Performance, in Michigan at 517 371-2396.  Both advertise
in HEMMINGS.  I have Obsolete's catalog and use some Dale's carb linkage 
made for Fords so they will be a good start.  Galexie shows up at all  the 
big swap meets back east and only deals by phone and mail order but specializes
in Galaxies.  Give them a try.



-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive(brattlan@speedway.net| ( Ford 302 Tri-Power  
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   | 4 spd, 9 inch )
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 18:32:17 1993
Subject: Hotrodding a 1967 Ford Galaxie 500 XL convertible
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5451
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I just picked up the convertible over the weekend and I'm going to be doing
some work on it to make it more reliable. Since we've got a dragstrip
nearby (Sears Point International Raceway), I'm inclined to make it real 
streetable but also wothry of the strip. The car has a 390 - 4bbl, C-6 
auto and 9 inch non - posi rearend and weighs about 3800 pounds. I'd like
to have the car run in the 15's at over 90 mph.

I'll take the plunge and drop in some decent posi gears but don't know how 
low to go. Is 4.11 good enough or do I need to go lower? Are off-brand gears
durable or should I stay with Ford gears?

Since I I know the carb needs to be rebuilt, I'm gonna get another carb. 
Any suggestions on a carb/intake manifold combo?


Thanks in advance for the help.


Craig
--
Craig Eid 
e-mail address    craige@hpsad.sad.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!sad.hp.com!craige (Craig Eid)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 18:52:20 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage Bits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5452
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>  Thanks to all and sundry for the suggestions and observations wrt
>garage tips.  I'm saving it all for posterity, now let's hope I can
>come up with something presentable for the county inspector.  Keep
>them coming!

I haven't read any comments rerarding pits.  It would seem that having
a pit so that you could work below the car without using a jack would
be useful.  Any good reasons not to have a pit?

Mark W. Blunier   mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

[only reason I can think of is getting a lift instead :-)  Having worked
under both, I'd take a lift any day over a pit but lacking the $$$$$
for one, a pit will do just fine, thankyoujustthesame.  :-)

If your county prick, er, I mean, county inspector is anything like mine,
the pit is probably something you'll have to add after the fact.  If
you get a bunch of crap, perhaps you could excavate the pit, cover it,
pour the slab and after inspection, cut the slab out over the hole.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue May 25 19:00:37 1993
Subject: octane vs effective CR
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5453
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Is there a relationship between the pounds of compression that
register on a compression gauge and the octane requirements of
that particular combination? 

For a static CR of say, 9.0 - 10.5, cam timing and profile can
alter the effective reading quite a lot. Dome shape, ignition
timing and other factors come into play also, but in the end,
there has to be an optimum octane range that will prevent
detonation and provide the best level of performance vs $$$.

I'd like to cut the experimentation to a minimum by using a
somewhat scientific method to establish a starting point.

Suggestions?

Vic

----------
Posted by: emory!sierra.com!vcook (Victor Cook)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 04:52:35 1993
Subject: Garage safety
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5454
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

:I haven't read any comments rerarding pits.  It would seem that having
:a pit so that you could work below the car without using a jack would
:be useful.  Any good reasons not to have a pit?
:Mark W. Blunier   mwbg9715@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
 
:[only reason I can think of is getting a lift instead :-)  Having worked
:under both, I'd take a lift any day over a pit but lacking the $$$$$
:for one, a pit will do just fine, thankyoujustthesame.  :-)
 
I would ask you to consider the potential problem of a pit 
filling with a heavier than air solvent. An explosion could 
easily occur. In the interest of safety, think about possible 
explosion/fire problems in your garage area. Solvent, paint 
storage should be well thought out. If in a cold climate what 
about your heat source...any open flames?
 
Also I read earlier about copper lines for an air compressor 
system. I believe that copper is not allowed for high pressure in 
all states. I think the problem has to do with creep at the 
soldered joints. (The joint slides apart over time under the 
influence of high pressure. Your *friendly* building inspector 
should be able to tell you if copper is ok)

[I have a bit of a problem believing copper/hard soldered piping will
have any problem with any pressure under 200 psi.  My air compressor
has an upper setpoint of 175 psi.  My static water pressure is 
150 psi as measured by a gauge on a spigot.  That doesn't count
the pretty severe water hammer that results from the 1/8 mile long
line from the street to the house.  The water piping is >25 years 
old.  My Machinist Handbook didn't have any rating for copper pipe
but 1" sched 40 pvc pipe is rated for 220 psi service.  The reason
I use copper is that if it were to burst for some reason, it won't
generate shrapnel.  Hell, I couldn't get it to make shrapnel when used
as a pipe bomb (I didn't say that! :-)  I'm not disputing what you
say regarding inspectors. I've seen crazier things from 'em.  JGD]
 
Hey, it's nice to live in Upper Michigan...in the wilderness. No 
problems with wierd zoning laws. No one ever checks my cars for 
emissions, etc. It's just too cold to work in the garage in the 
winter.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Collins
Say ya to da U.P. eh!
----------------------------------------------------------------
 

----------
Posted by: TIMOTHY COLLINS 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 04:57:51 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage Bits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5455
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I haven't read any comments rerarding pits.  It would seem that
-> having a pit so that you could work below the car without using a
-> jack would be useful.  Any good reasons not to have a pit?

 I live in what is basically reclaimed swamp.  Dig down more than a
foot or two and water will start seeping into the hole.

 I'd need a concrete-lined pit with a sump pump, and then one of the
damned neighbor kids would probably climb the fence, jump in, break its
neck, and its parents would want to sue.  Yuk.  That, or the pump would
jam with leaves and I'd wind up with a fish pond.
                                                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 05:02:15 1993
Subject: octane vs effective CR
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5456
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Is there a relationship between the pounds of compression that
-> register on a compression gauge and the octane requirements of
-> that particular combination?

 Not particularly.  I once built a 12.5:1 302 Ford with a cam big enough
to register 130 psi cranking pressure.

 Intake valve closing point would have a lot to do with things, maybe
even more than mechanical CR.  You could probably find the exact closing
point by putting a degreed timing tape on the balancer and using a dial
indicator to find the actual closing point.
                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 13:37:37 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage Bits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5457
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Any good reasons not to have a pit?

  Back in L.A. (yeah, I know, bad example bringing up the People's Republic
Of California ;) I remember the city inspectors giving my Grandma's next-
door neighbor a load of shit about his little ancient one car garage.  It
had a pit right in the center, which must have been put in when the place
was built.

  Their excuse for the weed up their collective ass was "fire danger."
Which, when you think about it, seems like a plausible problem.  One
easily overcome in my mind:  just make the pit long enough so that you
can escape the flames next time you drop that lit cigar in the can
of gas you were using to clean your wheel bearings ;) .

[Yep or a simple exhaust fan.  Probably not a bad idea anyway so that
fumes don't cause those lovely headaches.  JGD]

  Heck, if those chuckleheads at Jiffy Lube can build an entire business
around a garage with a pit, seems to me Joe Shadetree can make life working
under his cars a little easier.  I have no idea what my local building
codes say about the matter.

  Anybody have any experience with drive-on ramps?  Seems to me they wouldn't
be difficult to build.

  Ron "Yeah, But I'd Rather Have A Lift Anyway" Rader

----------
Posted by: emory!bbt.com!rlr (Powdered Toast Man)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 13:48:04 1993
Subject: fiberglass bodies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5458
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 Has anyone on the list ever built a fiberglass body?  Not popping molds
off an existing car; I mean building the male model over a chassis using
electrical conduit and plywood and using that to pull molds from?

 I've seen pictures of mockups and "clays" which were built with
stringers like a model airplane, then finished off with clay or plastic
filler.

 I'm wondering how hard it would be to keep everything straight, how to
avoid flat spots, dimples, or ripples while forming and sanding, etc.
Real car panels are almost always curved in three dimensions.

 The idea of building something like this has been bugging me for some
time, but I'm not all that great a bodyman, though I guess I'd have to
learn real fast.  There are three possibilities:

        A) build a whole body

        B) do a Can-Am or SR style car, using the two dimensional
           curves of a chassis tub (or just sheetmetal) from the
           firewall back, with only the nose piece out of fiberglass.
           If you look at the old Can-Am series cars, that's how
           most of them were made

        C) look for an unfinished kit car, an old Alfa or TR or
           Healey, and strip the body off it.  (yeah, right...)

        D) swear off hotrods and buy a used Yugo
                                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 14:02:42 1993
Subject: aluminum radiators
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5459
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 I'm sorta looking around for an aluminum radiator.  The size really
doesn't matter much, but cost is a factor.  The VW Rabbit radiators are
attractive from a cost standpoint, and they're very light.  However, a
351 Ford probably needs a little more cooling than a 1600cc VW.

 I've seen cars with a pair of the little (what, 10x12"???) Vega
radiators, one on each side of the water pump.  A pair of Rabbit
radiators might work, but I'd probably wind up putting one in front of
the other.  In this case, should they be:

        a) parallel
        b) series, hot water going to the front
        c) series, hot water going to the back

 As far as I can tell, "C" looks like the way to go.
                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 14:11:28 1993
Subject: Garage safety
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5460
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> easily occur. In the interest of safety, think about possible
-> explosion/fire problems in your garage area. Solvent, paint

 I did even better - I called my friendly local fire department and got
the fire/arson/code inspector guy to come down.  We talked about wiring,
(no problem), leaving the air tank and lines pressurized when unattended
(he said there wasn't enough volume of air there to do much if there was
a fire), solvent tank (he said basically anything's OK as long as it's
covered - even kerosene or other flammable solvents - just don't leave
it open) - how to properly store welding bottles (strap or chain to keep
them from tipping over), paint and other supplies, etc.  He said the
major thing was to watch for greasy rags or paper towels - that under
certain conditions they might self-ignite, but that a closed-top dirty
rag hamper would be more than adequate.  I showed him my 5-gallon bucket
of soapy water I throw dirty shop rags into, and he thought it was neat.
                                                                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 16:48:07 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5461
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>
>-> Does anyone know of a bolt on supercharger (SUPERCHARGER not
>-> Turbocharger) setup for this engine?  There seems to be room in the
>-> engine compartment of the sedan.
>
> ASCII and ye shall receive:  B&M makes a "universal" 4-cyl supercharger
>kit for 2.0-2.5 sized motors.  Give 'em a call.
>                          

Could someone elaborate on the impact of a supercharger on a
computer controlled fuel injected engine.  Specifically I was 
thinking that the boost pressure wouldn't be linear from idle 
on up, so just changing the fuel injectors to ones with a larger
flow wouldn't do it.  I had in mind a less-than-popular engine
like the renault built 182ci 3.0l in my wife's '91 Dodge Monaco,
with distributorless ignition and multiport fi.  Basically I am
wondering what (in general) is needed other than bolting on the
supercharger, like change the fuel injectors or computer?


Don Magee
AT&T Bell Labs

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnewsf.cb.att.com!djmagee (donald.magee)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 16:55:55 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage Bits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5462
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:


>-> I haven't read any comments rerarding pits.  It would seem that
>-> having a pit so that you could work below the car without using a
>-> jack would be useful.  Any good reasons not to have a pit?

> I live in what is basically reclaimed swamp.  Dig down more than a
>foot or two and water will start seeping into the hole.

> I'd need a concrete-lined pit with a sump pump, and then one of the
>damned neighbor kids would probably climb the fence, jump in, break its
>neck, and its parents would want to sue.  Yuk.  That, or the pump would
>jam with leaves and I'd wind up with a fish pond.
>                                                                                                              
The info I got on pits from an inspector was that these things fill up
with combustible fluids ie gas and oil. A spark comes alone and poof.
Therefore a pit is a definate no no, from a inspection point of view.

Having created my dream garage, (I ran out of property, otherwise it
would have been bigger) I incorporated a couple of features no one has 
yet mentioned. 

I put in a "rear" garage door. That way I can dump a car
in the back yard, if I need the room, but don't want to clutter up the
drive way. 

I insulated it and put in 220 Volts for a $100. 5KW space heater. When 
its -20 C outside I can work in coveralls with no jackets.
(This is Canada, it get real cold.)

I laid a 2x2 around the perimeter in the concrete. This channel can then be
used to place boards in so that I can flood the concrete floor, if I ever
get to painting a car.

Thats my .02

Fred
-- 
nnm.,bnbnmb,mb,nbb,nb,nb,nbn
jhlkjhljkhljhljhlkjhlkjhljkhlkjhlkj
jhljkhljhljhljkhlkjhlkjhlhjklhjkhlkjhl

----------
Posted by: emory!gandalf.ca!froberts (Fred Roberts)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 19:39:05 1993
Subject: RE: aluminum radiators
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5463
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> I've seen cars with a pair of the little (what, 10x12"???) Vega
>radiators, one on each side of the water pump.  A pair of Rabbit
>radiators might work, but I'd probably wind up putting one in front of
>the other.  In this case, should they be:
>
>        a) parallel
>        b) series, hot water going to the front
>        c) series, hot water going to the back
>
> As far as I can tell, "C" looks like the way to go.
 
I agree:

You want to maximize heat transfer.  Heat transfer is a function of 
temperature difference and a transfer coeffecient.  The transfer 
coeffecient is related to surface area and material.  The coldest air 
would remove the heat the best from the coolest water (the front 
radiator).

Assume that the air temperature is raise to the temperature of the water 
after passing through a radiator.  After going through the first 
radiator (senario B) the air and water would be about the same 
temperature.  Therefor the second radiator wouldn't do anything.  This 
exagerates but you get the point.

Parralel won't work - how could you guarentee getting the water evenly 
from both radiators?  Colder water does settle tto the bottom but I 
would think that most of the force moving water around is from the pump 
not the thermals.                          

[Actually parallel would be the way to go.  Evenly splitting the flow is
not a big issue unless the system is right on the edge.  And because
flow vs backpressure is a square law function, they will naturally tend to
balance themselves. More important
is the pressure drop across the radiators.  Hooked in series, the 
head doubles.  Hooked in parallel, it halves.  A factor of 4 different.
Does it matter?  Depends on the pump.  If the pump's head curve doesn't
go that high (for series operation) and it cavitates, then it matters 
very much.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 19:46:01 1993
Subject: Re: fiberglass bodies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5464
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>  Has anyone on the list ever built a fiberglass body?  Not popping molds
> off an existing car; I mean building the male model over a chassis using
> electrical conduit and plywood and using that to pull molds from?

Never done a fiberglass body, but have done two carbon fiber monocoques
(1990 sunrayce car and 93 formula-sae car).  The method we used for the
formula car male molds was to do I simple 3d CAD drawing of the body.
We then sliced the CAD model every 6 inches longitudinally, and plotted
the slices.  Cut out the plots and glued them to sheets of aluminum,
and then cut out these aluminum templates on the bandsaw and cleaned
the edges up with a file (a CNC waterjet cutter would made this a breeze).
Stacked up all of the templates and drilled four holes thru them (may
have done them in two or three batches, I wasn't around when this was done)
to run all-thread thru to line them up.  We then cut out oversize blocks
of 1" high density foam to fill in the space between the templates.
Bolted and glued it all together.  Then cheesegrated, filed, and sanded
until we had a smooth continuous curve that touched all the templates.
Had to fill with bondo and repeat in some places.  Shot primer on it,
sanded, primed, sanded, etc.  Not sure if we put a sealer over the primer
when it was done or just put a release agent (several coats of Carnuba wax
and a coat of PVA) directly on the primer.  The method we used for the
solar car was similar, except we made seperate male mold for the "top" and
"bottom" of the car and used plaster between the templates instead of
foam, with the templates mounted to steel girders (and aligned with a
transit) instead of freestanding.



-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed May 26 20:02:07 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5465
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Could someone elaborate on the impact of a supercharger on a
> computer controlled fuel injected engine.  Specifically I was 
> thinking that the boost pressure wouldn't be linear from idle 
> on up, so just changing the fuel injectors to ones with a larger
> flow wouldn't do it.  I had in mind a less-than-popular engine
> like the renault built 182ci 3.0l in my wife's '91 Dodge Monaco,
> with distributorless ignition and multiport fi.  Basically I am
> wondering what (in general) is needed other than bolting on the
> supercharger, like change the fuel injectors or computer?

Most of the kits I've seen for speed density equipped cars retain
the stock ECM, injectors, sensors, etc, and have additional injectors
to provide extra fuel under boost.  Not the most elegant setup,
but a lot easier and cheaper than going to an aftermarket ECU.


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 27 05:38:42 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5466
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----- News saved at 25 May 93 14:19:41 GMT
>>   Given the chance to build your own garage, what would you do?  Dimensions,
>> special goodies like a mounting location for an engine hoist, workbench
>> design, stuff like that.
>>

I've been looking real close at the old German style barn design.
a LARGE central structure, two stories tall, perhaps 60' long and
30-40' wide. With outrigger side rooms for the individual rooms,
each room could easily be sectioned off and sealed for cleanliness.
With the proper hillside in back to utilize as a ramp to the top floor
the second story could be used for your special project.
I'd have my clean room/assembly room in the top with a nice elevator 
platform for movement, no chain hoists for this.
One part of a side would definitely house my living quarters ie;
kitchen, shower, bed. ( I hate having to walk back to the house and
get cleaned up at 2 or 3 in the morning!)
As far as the "perfect" garage goes, I haven't seen a structure more
suited for the purpose, assuming of course that one has the room and
de moola. :)
***************************************************************
Millam E. Tackitt                        met@naucse.cse.nau.edu

1967 Cougar XR-7 271/289 4spd/CR 4spd
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 3-dueces and an Auto 

If you think gun "control" laws will work, try asking a 
criminal if they give a damn about laws in the first place!
***************************************************************
----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu May 27 05:53:15 1993
Subject: modification of restriction query
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5467
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm afraid that my query was mis-understood.
I had asked about restricting the airflow thru my 4" MAS.
I didn't mean restrict it as in CFM rating, I meant restrict it as in redirect 
the airflow across the wire. Hopefully with a concentration effect, ie;
make a 3" MAS.
I can open the ends of the MAS, simple circlip design, insert a 3" tubular
affair made from, say, PVC. If inserted in a non-concentric, off-center, way
I can redirect all airflow over the wire/sensor. I don't think that I want a 
venturi effect, so I mean to just eliminate the "dead-air" zone.
The hot-wire/sensor is only 1/2" into the airstream and with the 4" ID of this
MAS, I figure the pressure drop is so small at my 6900' altitude that my
system is registering similar to a far too large carburator.

My Computer allows for a very large range of fuel adjustment, so I think
that my idea is feasible, but I don't know.
Any thoughts are more than welcome.

Millam

[Been meaning to comment on this.  What you propose will probably work if you
don't introduce turbulence that adds noise to the flow signal.  I'd be
kinda surprised if that is the real problem, though.  In any event you 
need to do some testing to determine what the problem is.  What kind of 
ECU?  What you must do is look at the airflow signal during the interval
where the problem arises, at idle and at WOT.  You want to verify that there
is a live zero at idle and that the meter's output is a significant
portion of its full scale output without saturating.  You need to look
at the meter during the transient period to see the airflow signature.
If your intake manifold has a decent amount of volume, the inrush when
the throttle is opened should provide a spike of extra fuel as this
flow registers on the meter.  If the manifold volume is relatively
small, acceleration enrichment may be necessary.  If you can program
the acceleration enrichment envelope, you should be able to solve the 
problem without restricting the air meter.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 07:35:01 1993
Subject: where to get injection kit
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5468
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a Toyota 3RC  2.0L  4 cylinder
I want to replace the carburetor with a injection kit  <$1000
and I have not found anything for a 4 cylinder
and if I get a supercharger will it still work.



	Thanks
		-Keith
		 keithhar@eb5ts4.EBay.Sun.COM

----------
Posted by: emory!ebay.sun.com!Keith.Hargrove (Keith Hargrove)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 07:39:58 1993
Subject: Nothing sounds like a good pair of glass packs.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5469
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



    Gents,

       I assume that most of the people who read this group are fond of
   the sound a good set of glass packs makes on the output of a fine 
   old american V8 and others.  I dearly love the rumble myself.  I do 
   have some concerns about my truck, however relating to economy and
   polution.  

    The symptoms:

        When I hit the accelerator hard the exhaust makes 3 or 4 loud
        pops and then becomes a throaty roar.  The question is the 
        pops and what causes them.

        If I hit the accelerator quickly and then release it the 
        truck really backfires quite loudly.  This tends to wake up
        the boys in blue :-}.

        If I am on the highway press some on the accelerator and then
        back off completely you can actualy see the backfires at night
        coming out of both tail pipes.

        The insides of the tail pipes are always sooty black, even after
        a 70 mph spin down the highway ( oops I mean 55 mph ).

       I somehow think that the truck is running rich, It only has a 
   2 barrel.  I tend to believe that some of the noise is the excess 
   fuel that the accelerator pumps dumps into the motor.

       The motor is a 1979 ford 351M.  If I am correct in my fuel theory
   and have to mess with the carburetor I will probably put on a 4 barrel.

       Has anyone in this group installed an aftermarked 4 barrel on
   a 351M/400 motor?  Any recommendations?   I have been looking at the
   edlebrock/AFB combination.



                     
                    / \
                   <   ) 
 \==================   ==================/  This is all mine, no one else's.
  \================     ================/   Bill Poudrier  Maynard MA, 01754 
                  /// \\\

----------
Posted by: emory!genrad.com!wdp (William D. Poudrier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 07:45:36 1993
Subject: Repost: 12-volt conversion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5470
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Article 1257 (7 more) in rec.autos.antique:
From: achenbac@epcot.spdc.ti.com (Jeff Achenbach)
Subject: Re: 12 volt conversion-questions
Nntp-Posting-Host: epcot
Organization: TI Semiconductor Process and Design Center
Date: Tue, 25 May 1993 20:36:52 GMT
Lines: 50

   Sorry if this is inappropriate for this group, but it seemed the most
reasonable of the choices. If a modification to an antique to enhance 
drivability is offensive to you, please hit "d" or kindly direct me to
a more appropriate venue.

   My '47 Plymouth has a 6 volt positive ground system. As the taillights
are rather small, they are not very visible at night, and the headlights
are pretty dim as well. I like the looks of these taillights, so would like
to make them brighter for safer night driving. I'm not interested in
installing larger modern lights. The battery is not charging (again), so
I may be missing a problem. Background:

   I rewired the entire car with a harness that came with it, new in the box.
About halfway through, I started finding things were not quite right.  Close,
but not exactly the same as stock. Comparing to other diagrams, I think it 
may have been for about a '50 or '51 model. Using my trusty VOM, a soldering
iron, and heat shrink tubing, I got everything working except the ammeter and
the battery was running down. I had the generator overhauled, and according
to the ammeter it was overcharging (lights were brighter too) but then after
a few days it quit. I changed the regulator, and the ammeter then indicated
normal charging (but lights were again pretty dim) for about 3 days, then it
quit again. 
   Presently, I see three options:
     1. Try and find the problem again. Fix it and I'll still have dim lights.

     2. Buy an internal regulator, 1 wire GM style 6 volt alternator from 
        JC Whitney. Should take care of the charging problem with no other
        changes required, but will still have dim lights. Course it may be
        a negative ground setup. Does it matter if it's only a single wire
        to the battery? I suspect it would.

     3. Change over to twelve volt with single wire internal regulator GM
        style alternator. Near as I can figure, I'd want to change the 
        ignition coil and condensor, battery, and light bulbs. I could put
        a resistor in the line to the radio. How about the horns and gas
        gauge? As these are negative ground alternators, would the radio
        work at all? What about the starter? Could it be (need it be) 
        reconfigured to keep it from cranking in reverse?

   3 seems to me to be the best solution for a long term fix and a nice 
daily driver. I haven't a lot of money to spend on this, and would like
to keep costs down to $200-300, if possible. Anyone done this? If this 
has been discussed at length before, or is not welcome conversation on 
the antique group, I'd appreciate e-mail responses. Otherwise I'll watch
here for them.

Thanks for any help,

                   Jeff Achenbach

Jeff's an old friend here.  Can anyone help him out? Please send copy to
mopar-send@casbah.acns.nwu.edu.
tom root

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 07:50:06 1993
Subject: clutch question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5471
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I need some wisdom on clutches.
I can get a custom made ceramic clutch (the guy told me that the material
is like the "velvet touch" brakes that were out a while ago.

Or a Centerforce Dual Friction. The ceramic one is cheaper by about $200.
Is the Centerforce much better, or is the custom one a better deal.

What exactly is the material that the "velvet Touch" brakes are made of
and is it a worthy clutch material?????

Thanks, Frank Szymkowski
(215) 8817373

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 07:54:13 1993
Subject: Info
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5472
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'd like info about your interest group.  I have an interest in
rebuilding '30s classics into 'rods.  Any info would help.
 
Thanks,
 
Brian Rust
rust@macc.wisc.edu
 
 
	 Brian Rust  . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
 	 . Software Copyright & Licensing      .
	 . Division of Information Technology  .
	 . University of Wisconsin-Madison     .
	 . 1210 West Dayton Street, Room 2173  .
	 . Madison  53706		       .
	 . rust@macc.wisc.edu	608-263-9484   .
	 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

----------
Posted by: BRIAN RUST 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 07:58:59 1993
Subject: RE: aluminum radiators
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5473
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> is the pressure drop across the radiators.  Hooked in series, the
-> head doubles.  Hooked in parallel, it halves.  A factor of 4
-> different.

 Looks like it may be tabled now.  Unless I need to use two radiators
for space considerations (one on each side of a mid engined car, for
example) it looks like the way to go is one radiator - I just flipped
through Circle Track, and Griffin aluminum racing radiators are going
for $180 or so.  That's less than I've been quoted for some stock
radiators!
                                                                
[Ain't that amazin'?  I dropped a little over $200 for a larger radiator
for my Z from a radiator shop and then I notice these kinds of prices.
Grrrr..  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 08:03:15 1993
Subject: Re: fiberglass bodies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5474
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> have done them in two or three batches, I wasn't around when this was
-> done) to run all-thread thru to line them up.  We then cut out
-> oversize blocks of 1" high density foam to fill in the space between
-> the templates.

 Sounds like the way to go!  I'll have to spec out the price of bulk
foam locally.

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 13:43:19 1993
Subject: *Televised Events #93-20*
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5475
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

----------------------------------------------------------------------
			       TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times 
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					  stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil

		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

12:00AM = 0000 hours = start of day

    EVENT                             DATE     TIME(Eastern)  NETWORK

Glory Days                            5/28     2:00-2:30PM      ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POLE DAY AT CHARLOTTE (T)5/28     7:00-9:00PM      HTS*
NASCAR, SPORTSMAN 100, CHARLOTTE (T)  5/28     9:00-11:00PM     HTS*
WINSTON CUP, POLE DAY AT CHARLOTTE (T)5/29     12:00-2:00AM     HTS*
Speed Racer                           5/29     1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Movie: Grand Prix                     5/29     1:30-4:30AM   WDCA (DC)
NASCAR, SPORTSMAN 100, CHARLOTTE (T)  5/29     2:00-4:00AM      HTS*
World Of Speed & Beauty (vintage bikes5/29     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (struts & springs) 5/29     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Indy 500 Preview                      5/29     12:00-1:00PM     ESPN
Indy 500: Four Time Winners           5/29     1:00-2:00PM      ESPN
MIDGET WORLD CHALLENGE, PHOENIX (T)   5/29     1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
500 Festival Parade (L)               5/29     1:00PM WYVN, Martinsburg
BUSCH GN, CHARLOTTE (L)               5/29     1:05-4:05PM      TBS
This Week In NASCAR, Charlotte (T)    5/29     2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Truckin' USA                          5/29     2:00-2:30PM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                     5/29     2:00-2:30PM      DISC
NHRA Today                            5/29     2:30-3:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    5/29     3:00-3:30PM      TNN
Cycle World                           5/29     3:00-4:00PM      HTS*
AMA, DAYTONA 200 (T)                  5/29     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
Race To The Bricks (1992)             5/29     4:30PM WJAL, Hagerstown
MotorWeek '93 (BMW M5)                5/29     5:00-5:30PM      MPT**
SpeedWeek                             5/29     7:30-8:00PM      ESPN
S.N. THUNDER (or hockey??)            5/29     8:00-11:00PM     ESPN
S.N. THUNDER (or hockey??)            5/30     12:00-2:00AM     ESPN
SpeedWeek                             5/30     2:30-3:00AM      ESPN
Legends Of The Brickyard (1992)       5/30     3:00-4:00AM      ESPN
Indy 500: Four Time Winners           5/30     4:00-5:00AM      ESPN
Indy 500 Preview                      5/30     5:00-6:00AM      ESPN
Legends Of The Brickyard (1992)       5/30     6:00-6:30AM      ESPN
Truckin' USA                          5/30     9:00-9:30AM      TNN
Cycle World                           5/30     9:30-10:30AM     HTS*
Trucks & Tractor Power                5/30     9:30-10:00AM     TNN
Winners (Danny Sullivan)              5/30     10:00-10:30AM    TNN
NHRA Today                            5/30     10:30-11:00AM    TNN
Motor Sports Hour                     5/30     10:30-11:30AM    HTS*
INDIANAPOLIS 500 (L)                  5/30    11:00AM-3:30PM  ABC,CTV
Inside Winston Cup                    5/30     11:00-11:30AM    TNN
RaceDay (L)                           5/30    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
Winston Cup Weekly                    5/30    11:30AM-12:00PM   HTS*
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T)5/30     2:00-3:30PM      TNN
NHRA Today                            5/30     3:30-4:00PM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                    5/30     4:00-4:30PM      TNN
WINSTON CUP, WORLD 600, CHARLOTTE (L) 5/30     4:05-9:05PM      TBS
Winners (Danny Sullivan)              5/30     4:30-5:00PM      TNN
Shadetree Mechanic (struts & springs) 5/30     6:30-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    5/30     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
AMA SUPERCROSS, DAYTONA 125 (T)       5/30     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           5/30     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
Road Test Magazine                    5/30     11:00-11:30PM    TNN
Trucks & Tractor Power                5/30    11:30PM-12:00AM   TNN
Speed Racer                           5/30    11:30PM-12:00AM   MTV
Truckin' USA                          5/31     12:00-12:30AM    TNN
World Of Speed & Beauty (vintage bikes5/31     12:30-1:00AM     TNN
Speed Racer                           5/31     6:00-6:30AM      MTV
SpeedWeek                             5/31     1:00-1:30PM      ESPN
IMSA GTP, LIME ROCK (L)               5/31     1:30-4:00PM      ESPN
Secrets Of Speed (Powerboat racing)   6/1      1:00-1:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/1      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
SpeedWeek                             6/1      1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/1      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           6/2      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
USAC MIDGETS, INDIANAPOLIS (T)        6/2      3:30-5:30AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/2      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Glory Days                            6/2      2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Movie: Grand Prix                     6/3      12:30-3:30AM     WGN
Speed Racer                           6/3      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           6/3      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Cycle World                           6/3      1:00-2:00PM      HTS*
Motor Sports Hour                     6/3      2:00-3:00PM      HTS*
Motoworld                             6/3      2:30-3:00PM      ESPN
Prime Time Motorsports                6/3      3:00-3:30PM      HTS*
MIDGET WORLD CHALLENGE, PHOENIX (T)   6/3      7:30-8:30PM      HTS*
Cycle World                           6/3      8:30-9:30PM      HTS*
MotorWeek '93 (BMW M5)                6/3      8:30-9:00PM      MPT**
Motor Sports Hour                     6/3      9:30-10:30PM     HTS*
Prime Time Motorsports                6/3      10:30-11:00PM    HTS*
This Week In NASCAR, Bethesda (L)     6/3     11:00PM-12:00AM   HTS*
AMA SUPERCROSS, PONTIAC (T)           6/4      12:30-1:30AM     ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/4      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
Motoworld                             6/4      1:30-2:00AM      ESPN
Speed Racer                           6/4      6:00-6:30AM      MTV
Speed Racer                           6/5      1:00-1:30AM      MTV
IMSA GTP, LIME ROCK (T)               6/5      3:00-5:00AM      ESPN

		  ----------COMING EVENTS---------- 

BUSCH GN, DOVER (L)                   6/5      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/6     11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, DOVER (L)                6/6      12:00PM          TNN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (L)                6/6      1:00-3:00PM      ABC
F ATLANTIC, MILWAUKEE (T)             6/6      5:00PM           TSN
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (SD)               6/6     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
INDYCAR, MILWAUKEE (T)                6/7      2:30AM           TSN
ARCA, POCONO (L)                      6/12     1:30PM           ESPN
BUSCH GN, MARTINSVILLE (T)            6/12     3:30-5:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, MYRTLE BEACH (L)            6/12     5:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               6/13     12:30PM          ESPN
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (L)       6/13     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
IMSA, MID-OHIO (?)                    6/13     TBA              TBA
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (L)               6/13     3:00-5:30PM    ABC,TSN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     3:25-4:00PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MONTREAL (T)              6/13     7:00PM           TSN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/13     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, MID-SOUTH NATIONALS, MEMPHIS (T)6/13     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/13     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, BELLE ISLE (SD)              6/13    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
FORMULA 1, MONTREAL, CANADA (T)       6/14     12:00-2:00AM     ESPN
IHRA SPRING NATIONALS, BRISTOL (T)    6/19     1:30PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP,THE WINSTON,CHARLOTTE (T) 6/19     3:30-5:30PM      TNN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/19     8:00PM           ESPN
LEMANS, START (?)                     6/19     TBA              TBA
RaceDay (L)                           6/20    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
LEMANS, FINISH (?)                    6/20     TBA              TBA
WINSTON CUP, MICHIGAN (L)             6/20     12:00PM          CBS
USAC & NASCAR, COPPER WORLD CLASSIC(T)6/20     2:00-3:25PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     3:25-3:30PM      TNN
RaceDay Update (L)                    6/20     7:00-7:05PM      TNN
NHRA, WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (T)     6/20     7:05-8:30PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/20     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, WATKINS GLEN (L)            6/26     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
BUSCH GN, NAZARETH (T)                6/26     4:00-5:30PM      TNN
F ATLANTIC, MOSPORT (T)               6/26     5:00PM           TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        6/26     8:00PM           ESPN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27    11:30AM-12:00PM   TNN
IMSA, WATKINS GLEN (?)                6/27     TBA              TBA
ASA, BRAINERD INTERNATIONAL RACEWAY(L)6/27     2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (L)                 6/27     4:00-6:30PM      ESPN
NHRA, HEARTLAND GRANDNATIONAL (L)     6/27     6:00-7:00PM      TNN
RaceDay (L)                           6/27     8:30-9:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27     9:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, PORTLAND (SD)                6/27    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
SCCA TRANS-AM, DETROIT (T)            6/28     1:00AM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)              7/3      11:00AM          ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, PORTLAND (T)           7/3      8:00PM           ESPN
USAC SPRINTS, WINCHESTER (L)          7/3      9:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (L)                 7/4      7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
BUSCH GN, MILWAUKEE (?)               7/4      TBA              TBA
PIKES PEAK (?)                        7/4     (live coverage unlikely)
FORMULA 1, FRANCE (SD)                7/4     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IHRA NATIONALS, LIECESTER (T)         7/10     5:30PM           ESPN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/10     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, SILVERSTONE, ENGLAND (L)   7/11     8:50-11:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
SCCA TRANS-AM, DES MOINES (L)         7/11     12:30PM          ESPN
WINSTON CUP, NEW HAMPSHIRE (L)        7/11     1:00PM           TNN
INDYCAR, CLEVELAND (L)                7/11     1:30-3:30PM    ABC,TSN
IMSA GTP, ROAD AMERICA (L)            7/11     4:00PM           ESPN
F ATLANTIC, HALIFAX (SD)              7/11     5:30PM           TSN
INDYCAR, CLEV. OR F1, ENGLAND ?(SD)   7/11    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
F ATLANTIC, TORONTO (?)               7/17     5:00-6:30PM      TSN
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/17     8:00PM           ESPN
WINSTON CUP, POCONO (L)               7/18     12:00PM          TBS
INDYCAR, TORONTO (L) ?                7/18     1:30-3:30PM      CBC
INDYCAR, TORONTO (SD) ?               7/18     4:00-6:00PM      ABC
BUSCH GN, TALLADEGA (?)               7/24     TBA              TBA
S.N. THUNDER W/FASTMASTERS (L)        7/24     8:00PM           ESPN
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (L)    7/25     7:50-10:00AM ESPN,TSN [1]
WINSTON CUP, TALLADEGA (L)            7/25     12:15PM          CBS
PIKES PEAK (T)                        7/25     TBA              ESPN
IMSA, LAGUNA SECA (?)                 7/25     TBA              TBA
FORMULA 1, HOCKENHEIM, GERMANY (SD)   7/25    11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
S.N.THUNDER (L)                       7/31     8:00PM           ESPN
SCCA TRANS-AM, SEARS POINT (T)        8/1      12:00PM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (L)                 8/1      2:00-5:00PM      ABC
ASA, HEARTLAND PARK RACEWAY,TOPEKA (L)8/1      2:00-4:00PM      TNN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (SD)                8/1     11:30PM-1:30AM    CBC
IMSA GTP, PORTLAND (T)                8/2      12:00AM          ESPN
INDYCAR, MICHIGAN (T)                 8/2      2:30AM           TSN

[1] CBC also carries F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your 
French isn't too rusty, and you have access to it, you may also want to 
check out SRC. Thanks to Tak Ariga, Tim Dudley, and Tom Haapanen for 
info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburgh                   Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If interested, 
please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 13:57:14 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage Bits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5476
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Very useful, as I'm planning a garage in the semi-near
future.  Although my dream garage -to-be isn't quite as dreamy as some
of yalls, it may give some ideas, or vice versa.
I cant build quite as large as I'd like -- my resident building
inspector sez : "no bigger than the house!"

I'm planning 3 bays;
 1) general shop area, work benches, hopefully water & toilet.  Metal &
woodworking machinery as space & budget permit.
 2) parking and routine car maintenance.
 3) Long term project car.

So if you cant smell the problems coming:
 in 1) will be the occasional engine building _&_ wood work.
Gack!
 in 3) will be welding, sand blasing _and_ painting.
Gack! Gack!
[well, not simultaneously, anyway]
 And in 2) will be my latest (finally finished) love.
Gack! Gack! Gack!

Sooo, some sort of `cleanliness' (yeah, me too: just look it up!)
or at least cleanableness, is going to be essential.

One idea I have is to build up the block foundation a couple of rows
higher than the floor, use whatever the latest wonder paint is on the
floor & the strip along the wall.  Any shelves & cabinets would be
on longer legs to clear that area.  Then I can concievably clean (sweep,
blow, hose off) the floor reasonably well.  

I dont want to have permanent partitions between the bays, but if I 
install industrial grade shower curtains to use when I'm doing something
particularly nasty, I hope to keep the mess to a minimum.

Any thoughts with that?

    Date: Wed, 26 May 1993 16:47 EDT
    From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)

    In alt.hotrod you write:
    >-> I haven't read any comments rerarding pits.  

I'd be interested in hearing more variations on pits or ideas for cheep
homemade lifts.

A guy in the neighborhood has a pit in his garage that is wider than the
car.  He's got two rails that rest on lips in the front & back.
This is nice so you can get all around the bottom of the car, but would
seem to be a particular headache when you also want to lift the wheels
off the rails on jackstands (which is most of the time for me).

My pipe-dream lift would be a pair of contraptions with hydraulic jacks
and fork-lift like arms.  Use one to lift one end.  Two to lift the
whole car.  And of course the forks can be bolted to the frame and
rotated to get a rotiserie!... Haven't quite worked out the details yet! :>

  bruce
  miller@cam.nist.gov
  

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Posted by: Bruce R. Miller 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 15:37:28 1993
Subject: RE: Nothing sounds like a good pair of glass packs.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5477
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


    Gents,

       I assume that most of the people who read this group are fond of
   the sound a good set of glass packs makes on the output of a fine 
   old american V8 and others.  I dearly love the rumble myself.  I do 
   have some concerns about my truck, however relating to economy and
   polution.  

    The symptoms:

        When I hit the accelerator hard the exhaust makes 3 or 4 loud
        pops and then becomes a throaty roar.  The question is the 
        pops and what causes them.

        If I hit the accelerator quickly and then release it the 
        truck really backfires quite loudly.  This tends to wake up
        the boys in blue :-}.

        If I am on the highway press some on the accelerator and then
        back off completely you can actualy see the backfires at night
        coming out of both tail pipes.

        The insides of the tail pipes are always sooty black, even after
        a 70 mph spin down the highway ( oops I mean 55 mph ).

       I somehow think that the truck is running rich, It only has a 
   2 barrel.  I tend to believe that some of the noise is the excess 
   fuel that the accelerator pumps dumps into the motor.

       The motor is a 1979 ford 351M.  If I am correct in my fuel theory
   and have to mess with the carburetor I will probably put on a 4 barrel.

Check your timing - probably not advance enough - this could account for all 
your problems.  Make sure the vacumm advance is hooked to the ported vacumm.  I 
always like tuning the car without any vacumm advance and just adding the vacumm 
to give better highway milage...  
This doesn't rule out a carberator problem you still could have bad accelorator 
pump - although usually the engine won't pop - it'll just fall on its face.

Good Luck
Dirk  

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Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 15:41:48 1993
Subject: Re: Repost: 12-volt conversion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5478
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have done a few of the mods you are talking about
the starter is ok 12V will make it fast but is will work
the lamp holders in the tail will need to be cut. The peg that keeps
the light in is in a new spot on the 12V lamps
the rest of the  lamps are easy
the instruments is the hard part you can get a dc to dc converter
get a >5 amps at 12V this will give you -12V
usr a voltage regulateor like a LM7905 -5 volt regulateor and add a 
restor network to make it a 7 to 8 volts
one of LM7905 is good for 1 amp use more then one
one for the radio if it is 1 amp or less
one for the instruments if the instruments are more then one amp split
them up on the ones I did I had a regulateor for each instruments
by changing the voltage I could calibrate the instruments

I hope this helps good luck.


P.S. the starter motor is like a ac motor no magnet

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Posted by: emory!EBay.Sun.COM!Keith.Hargrove (Keith Hargrove)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 17:35:10 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage Bits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5479
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> floor & the strip along the wall.  Any shelves & cabinets would be on
-> longer legs to clear that area.  Then I can concievably clean (sweep,

 No shelves!  Down with shelves!  Shelves suck!

 Put doors on them all, and turn them into cabinets.  It's a whole lot
easier to keep clean, gives you a place to put your beer ads and nudie
pictures, and keeps your good stuff out of sight so your friends don't
walk off with it.
              
[:-)  AMEN!  Plus things in cabinets survive fires better, as I learned 
from mine.  What he really needs to do is design the place to what in
the food business is called CIP (clean in place), that is, built to be
hosed down.  My stall is semi-CIP now.  I don't have waterproof walls
yet but they still withstand a quick sweep with the high pressure 
car wash wand.  Being able to hose the whole place down is VERY nice
when you need a clean environment for painting or engine assembly.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri May 28 17:43:50 1993
Subject: Re: clutch question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5480
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>I need some wisdom on clutches.
>I can get a custom made ceramic clutch (the guy told me that the material
>is like the "velvet touch" brakes that were out a while ago.

>Or a Centerforce Dual Friction. The ceramic one is cheaper by about $200.
>Is the Centerforce much better, or is the custom one a better deal.

>What exactly is the material that the "velvet Touch" brakes are made of
>and is it a worthy clutch material?????

I used some of these velvet touch brakes once;  the stuff looks like its
made entirely from powdered metal.  For a clutch it sounds a little iffy.
The velvet touch brakes were somewhat worse than the normal composition
brakes cold; it was when they were heated up that they really ran much better.
I would also be wary of wearing out the pressure plate as well; the velvet
touch brakes were supposed to last longer, but they caused drums or rotors
to wear out a little faster.  I had them on for about 6 years (can't remember 
the mileage) and then they started to disentegrate.

I also had the kind of clutch with a solid hub and 6 sintered bronze pads -
a hot setup for racing, as long as you never slip the clutch.  On the street,
slipping the clutch is unavoidable; that disk did pretty well, but it
ground down the pressure plate surface so much that it started slipping
after about 6 months of street use.

I would recommend going to the largest diameter clutch you can stuff in, if
you aren't there already, and/or a stronger pressure plate.  Anyone have any
luck with those dual disk setups?

-- 
Derek Deeter                           derekd@wv.mentorg.com

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Posted by: emory!wv.MENTORG.COM!derekd (Derek Deeter)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 31 20:41:55 1993
Subject: Re: Dream Garage Bits
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5481
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> yet but they still withstand a quick sweep with the high pressure car
-> wash wand.  Being able to hose the whole place down is VERY nice when
-> you need a clean environment for painting or engine assembly.  JGD]

 Dang.  That's a good idea, John.  I don't have all the insulation in
yet (it costs money, you know...) so I can go for the water-resistant
sheetrock instead of the regular stuff when it's time.

 No bare studs in MY shop.  Sheetrock is $3.50 for a 4x8 sheet, and it
takes white paint very well.  I want LOTS of light, which calls for
mondo wads of lumens to start with, plus white ceiling and walls and a
light-gray floor.  Cabinetry will probably be some light, non-white
color for a little variety.

 When it gets dirty, I can just fire up the old paint gun... 
                                    

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 31 21:38:48 1993
Subject: Holley mixture adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5482
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Has anyone ever modified a Holley to richen the primary power circuit?
I have a problem where the cruise mixture is fine but when the manifold
vacuum drops then the mixture is too lean and the engine bogs.  I'm
running 66 jets on the primary to partially compensate for this; the
engine actually prefers 65s for cruising but with 65s the engine
*really* falls on its nose during acceleration on the primaries.

The carb is an 0-1850 which has vacuum secondaries.  Once the
secondaries open then things are fine; the mixture from the secondary
side is rich enough to cover the primary side problem.

The engine is a 350 Chevy with a Schneider hydraulic cam (fairly mild).

I can see where Holley used small holes for the primary power circuit
but these are part of a complex metering block which would no doubt
really object to having little drill shavings left in it.  Is there
some way to modify this beast without ruining it?  Thanks.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!hale@brooktree.com (preferred)


----------
Posted by: Bob Hale 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 31 21:45:29 1993
Subject: Re: Repost: 12-volt conversion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5483
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>      3. Change over to twelve volt with single wire internal regulator GM
>         style alternator. Near as I can figure, I'd want to change the 
>         ignition coil and condensor, battery, and light bulbs. I could put
>         a resistor in the line to the radio. How about the horns and gas
>         gauge? As these are negative ground alternators, would the radio
>         work at all? What about the starter? Could it be (need it be) 
>         reconfigured to keep it from cranking in reverse?

	4. Change to an 8V system.  This was a fairly common mod in the
	  early 70's for 6V (esp. POS GND) cars that will retain all your
	  stock sockets/bulbs/instruments/wiring/etc.  Worked fine, lights
	  were almost as bright as today's non-halogen, although the life
	  was reduced somewhat if the regulator was set to 9.5 (setting
	  recommended for an 8V battery). Cranked like a turbo when the
	  battery had a full charge. :->  Uses old starter and generator.

> 
>    3 seems to me to be the best solution for a long term fix and a nice 
> daily driver. I haven't a lot of money to spend on this, and would like
> to keep costs down to $200-300, if possible. Anyone done this? If this 

     4 should cost <$200 (for battery and regulator).

> has been discussed at length before, or is not welcome conversation on 
> Thanks for any help,
> 
>                    Jeff Achenbach
> 
This is the simplest _upgrade_ that I know of, although the simplest 
_fix_ would be to find the problem with your current system, and make
the necessary repairs.  A properly charging system should give you 
servicable lighting. 
NOTE: the mod. depends on the availability of 8V battery and regulator.
I have not used/looked for/paid any attention to/seen any 8V accessories
in the last ~10 years, but _someone_ should still have such.

Good luck.
als

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Posted by: emory!hounix.org!als (Alan Squyres)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 31 21:51:20 1993
Subject: Whipple superchargers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5484
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hello all,

Back some time ago I read in one of the car rags about a twin-screw
(helical?) supercharger developed by Art Whipple and now sold as a
simple bolt-on kit for 88 & up Chevy/GMC 454, 350 & 4.3 V6 TBI  
systems.  It claimed a boost of 100 HP but at a cost of $3200.00,
so says my local retailer.  My questions are:  Is this at all
worthwhile?  Can I expect increased fuel efficiency?  What about
cooling?  Also, somewhat unrelated, any opinions on Borla exaust
systems as well as Doug Thorley headers?

Thanks.

Mark - burens@caesi.scg.hac.com

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Posted by: emory!caesi.scg.hac.com!burens
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 31 21:56:27 1993
Subject: fiberglass bodies
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5485
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have one friend that made a mould for a fibreglass carson top for his
deuce roadster. I looks really good and is practical he swears
emphaticly (?sp) that it's a "_never again_" job. This guy's a cop
during the day and built the whole roadster himself. Steel body, tube
chassis, IFR, engine, paint, wiring, ...., everything. He gets a very
streetable rod that still runs 10 second quarters.

Another couple of guys I know are doing exactly what you are considering
and they are currently about 2 years behind schedule. They are still
doing the same amount of hours (2 nights a week) but it was a _much_
longer job than they ever imagined. Almost finished now however, and it
would almost seem to be worth it (from an outsider's point of view). 

If you think that you could form a romantic relationship with sandpaper
and make it last, the results are very impressive.

Steve.

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Posted by: emory!kcbbs.gen.nz!Steve_Baldwin (Steve Baldwin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 31 22:06:46 1993
Subject: Re: Nothing sounds like a good pair of glass packs.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5486
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod Bill writes:
>        If I am on the highway press some on the accelerator and then
>        back off completely you can actualy see the backfires at night
>        coming out of both tail pipes.

Isn't such backfiring out the pipes usually related to an ignition
miss?  Perhaps there's loose wire in the distributor that only
shows up when the vacuum advance moves it around.  Since you mention
the sound of a glass pack I assume you don't have an exhaust leak
near the engine.  This is an almost guaranteed way to get a POP when
you quickly release the accel (like during a gear change).

>       Has anyone in this group installed an aftermarked 4 barrel on
>   a 351M/400 motor?  Any recommendations?   I have been looking at the
>   edlebrock/AFB combination.

I love the AFB on my 283 Chevy.  I am also a fan of the mechanical
secondaries.

-greg

-- 

===============================================================================
Gregory A. Parmer			|INTERNET:  gparmer@acenet.auburn.edu
Computing Applications Specialist	|VOICE: (205) 844-9660
Alabama Cooperative Extension Service	|FAX: (205) 844-3501
Auburn University, AL  36849-5646	|
===============================================================================

----------
Posted by: Gregory A. Parmer 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon May 31 22:55:59 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: I'm back
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5487
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


No, the list hasn't been down, just yer administrator.  Down for 3 LOVELY
days of vegetating at my place in the Smokey Mountains.  A little time
off does wonders for the soul.

John

----------
Posted by: hotrod (The hotrod mailing list)