From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 11:18:12 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4767
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
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Unacceptable topics:  

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The following sites maintain archives:

ece.rutgers.edu archives the hotrod and the z-car mailing lists.  This is
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Hotrod-related GIFs (and others) are archived at ftp.nau.edu.  Unfortunately
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----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 11:34:36 1993
Subject: SB Chevy Double-Humps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4768
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>>>So does this mean that all "double-hump" SB Chevy heads are "fuelie" heads?
>>>I had a '70 Caprice with the 300hp 350 engine that had double-hump heads
>>>and the accessory mounting holes.
   ^^^
   There are no bolt holes on the ends of the heads for installing alternators.
If there were, it's not a fuelie... 

>>>Basically I'm asking if all double-hump heads have better port flow and a 
>>>high probablity of big valves?  Did they all have small chambers?

Again, two size valves: 2.02/1.60 or 1.94/1.50. All were small chambers. The
no bolt holes "and humps" distinguish the fuelie heads from the run of the 
mill heads... 

-dan a.
dhoward@stratus.com

----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 11:44:07 1993
Subject: Re: 460 Ford parts (was Parts interchange)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4769
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Mar 30, 21:27, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: 460 Ford parts (was Parts interchange)
>
> Oh, and most of this stuff probably won't pass emissions for too many years
> (but with a mild cam, I bet I can get away with it in my Bronco. :-) )
>
> -- Steve
>

I've been wanting to put a 460 into my '85 Bronco, but my local 4x4
expert says that the transfer case won't handle it.  Any ideas?

Also, I'm about to start building a replacement 460 engine for my tow
car, the Mercury Grand Marquis Wagon - otherwise known as the Family
Truckster :-).

I would like to keep the cost reasonable.  Are there any cheaper
stroker kits than the Lunati?  I don't want to turn a lot of RPMs,
just get lots of good towing torque.

-Bob



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!mcigate!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 11:51:36 1993
Subject: Re:  small block chevy head id
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4770
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I have a 210 hp 327 out of a 67 camaro. Small journal with 1.94"/1.50"
>heads. The casting marks are 2 squared off pyramids.
>Jim Davies have never seen these heads. Whats funny is that it came
>out of the original camaro with a 4bbl carb NOT a 2bbl
>Any comments?
>
>Frank

I have a couple of lists of casting numbers and dates -- One source was
a GM parts manual and the other came from a hotrod magazine as far as I
know (read, disclaimer ;^)  Since they are already on a file in the computer
(thanks to Jerry Holley and Ernie Judd), I'll pass them along to the 'for-
what-ever-it's-worth' department..

Phil - Blown SB '31 Model A Ford - '64 F.I. Corvette

                              C U T  H E R E

===============================================================================

(Corvettes -- year, cubes, hp, casting numbers...)


   1962----327**300**340**360====3782462,3890462,3947041,3991492,3917291

   1963----327**300**340**360====3782461,3890462,3947041,3991492,3917291

   1964----327**300==3782461,3890462,3947041,3991492,3927186,3917291

   1964----327**365**375==3782461,3890462,3927186,3973414,3991492,3917291
   1964----327**365**375==3947041

   1965----327**350**360**375==3849820,3782461,3890462,3927186,3973414
   1965----327**350**360**375==3947041,3991492,3917291

   1966----327**350==3782461,3890492,3947041,3927186,3991492,3973414,3917291

   1967----327**325**350==3890462,3947041,3927186,3991492,3917291,3973414

   1967----350 C.I.D.==3980462,3917291,3927186,3947041,3991492

   1968----327**325**350==3917292,3927186,3947041,3991492,3890462,3917291
   1968----327**325**350==3973414
   1968----350cid=3917291,3917292,3927186,3947041,3991492,3890462

   1969----350cid**300=3947041,3927186,3991492
   1969----350cid**350**370=3927187,3973414,3991492,3927186,3947041

   1970----350cid**300=3927186,3991492,3947041
   1970----350cid**350=3927187,3973414,3991492,3927186,3947041
   1970----350cid**360**370=3973414,3991492,3927186,3947041
   1970----400cid=3951598

   1971----350cid**245**270=3973487,3998993,333882
   1971----350cid**330=3973487,3986316,3998916,3998993,333881,333882
   1971----400cid=3973493,3998997,333882

   1972----350cid**165**175**200=3973487,3998993,333882
   1972----350cid**255=3973487,3986316,3998916,3998993,333881,333882
   1972----400cid=3998997,333882

   1973----350cid**145**175**190=3998993,333882
   1973----350cid**245**250=330545,333881,333882

   1974----350=333881,333882
   1974----400=333882

   1975----350=333881,333882
   1975----400=333882



======================  And the other stuff...  ===========================


----------------------------------------------------
        CYLINDER HEAD IDENTIFICATION
---------------------------------------------------
CASTING NO.	YEARS	USED ON
		USED

333882		72	350
354434		75-76   262
3636839		55	265	
3703523		55	265
3713358		55-56	265 TRUCK
3713569		55-56	265 TRUCK
3725306		56-57	265
3731262		56	265 2+4 BARREL CARB CORVETTE
3731539		57-61	283 TRUCK
3731544		55-61	265-283
3731556		57	283 TRUCK
3740997		57	283
3743056		58	283 TRUCK
3755585		62-67	327 GMC AND TRUCK
3760116		59	283 1+4 BARREL CARB OR FI CORV.
3767460		62-64	283 OR 327
3748772		57-62	283
3755537		57-62	283
3755539		58-62	283 TRUCK
3755549		57-62	283 CAR AND TRUCK
3755550		57-62	283
3743096		62-67	327 GMC TRUCK
3748720		57-58	283 1+4 OR 2+4 BARREL CARB FI CORV.
3748770		55-61	265-283
3748770		60-67	265-283
3767462		62-67	327
3767465		60-61	283
3767754	        60-61	283
3767792		60-67	283 CAR AND TRUCK
3770126		67-70	327-350
3774682		60-64	283-327 CARS AND TRUCK
3774684		62-64	283-327 CHEV. TRUCK AND GMC
3774692		58-64	283
3782461		62-70	307-327-350
3795896		58-72	265-283-307-327
3798996		63-67	327
3814480		60-67	283-327
3814482		62-67	327
3817681		62-67	327
3836839		55	265
3836842	        57-67	265-283-327
3837064		56-62	265-283
3837065		55-56	265 TRUCK
3737775		62-67	283-327
3848720		57-58	283
3854520		62-67	283-327
3876775		60-67	283-327
3884520		60-67	283-327
3891462		62-67	307-327-350
3891492		64-67	327
3911032		68-69	307
3917290		68	327
3917291		68	350-327
3917291		67-70	302-327
3917292		68	327
3917293		68-69	307
3927185		68-72	307-327
3927186		68-72	327-350
3927187		69-70	302-350
3927188		69	307-327-350 LIGHT TRUCK APPL.
3932441		67-72	327-350
3961598		70-76	400
3961882          76	400
3932454		68-69	307
3946812		69	350 TRUCK 
3946813		69-70	350
3947041		69-70	350
39351598		70-71	400 WITH 2 BARREL CARB.
3964286		70-71	350
3970126		67-70	327-350
3973493		71	400
3973487		71	350 HIGH PERFORMANCE APPL.
3973487		71	350 TRUCK AND CAR
3986339		71	307
3991492		69-70	350
3998916		72	400
3998991		72	307
3998993		72	350 LOW PERFORMANCE TRUCK AND CAR
3998997		72	400
6260856		72	350



----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!prg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 11:59:13 1993
Subject: Bow Tie
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4771
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 
>>>Alright what is the difference between the old fuelly type, angular plug
>>>type and bow tie?  

	Beats me. Never had a pair of bow tie's...

>>>Did GM change over to these or are they strictly aftermarket?  

G.M. Aftermarket Parts.. You know... The Goodwrench Guys!!

>>>And what about these bow tie blocks?  What makes them
>>>different?  Or are they just 4 bolt mains on an aluminium casting?

A lot there.. the webbing between cylanders is beefier, along with thicker
walls. Deck thickness is greater also. But you gotta pay for it...

A stock two bolt main is good to 400 hp. the older stock 4 bolt mains are 
preferred.. And they are plentiful.  

-dan a.


----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 12:06:32 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4772
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>    Perhaps there is some confusion here.  The 351 engines were of two
> families, Windsor and Cleveland.  The progression of family tree/cousins is:
> 
>    Windsor:  255, 289, 302, 351W     Cleveland:  351, 351M, 400M
> 
	The 351M and the 400M are not of the cleveland type engine, they may
look alike, but a cleveland is very much like a windsor, the bellhousings
are the same, the heads have the same bolt pattern and can be swapped
with a little work, or so i hear, also i do believe they use the same 
engine mounts.  The C and M do have timing chain covers that look alike
but the 351m/400 is susposed to be a real easy swap for a 429/460. Also
the M family I do believe has longer rods and a higher deck height.


----------
Posted by: Robert A Walker 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 12:12:33 1993
Subject: Re: rotary
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4773
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:

>You obviously haven't ever played with a GSXR1100 :)
>              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Actually, I have owned a GSX-R 750, a 750 Ninja, and have ridden a GSX-R 1100,
as well as an FZR-1100 & 750, and the interceptor line.
Ahh, the advantages of having friends who work at motorcycle dealers. :)

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!dartw (Dart Woo)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 12:19:44 1993
Subject: RE: 318 high altitude help 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4774
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	Did I not understand this right, or did you not say that the
choice of mopar smallblock head doesn't affect compression?
	That doesn't sound right to me.  My brother bought a set of 360
police heads that had the bigger valves, but they also had a tremendously
large combustion chamber.  The compression is gonna go way down with those.
	Have you heard of these?  They were built in the 70's to get through
the emissions stuff.  I think compression ran at 8:1.
							FC&B

----------
Posted by: FC&B 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 12:26:27 1993
Subject: Re: SB Chevy Head ID
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4775
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>
> > Anyone built their own flowbench?  The plans in David Vizard's book
> > look interesting.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Kevin.
> >
> What is the name of this book?  I don't think I have seen this one around
> here.  Sounds quite interesting, though.
>
> thx
>
> -greg
>

The book is titled:
"How to Build and Modify Small Block Chevrolet Cylinder Heads"
Author is David Vizard, Published by Motorbooks International

It's about 160 pages, covers mostly closed chamber stock heads.  There
is also a section on Corvette aluminium heads, and some aftermarket
ones.

The parts of this book that I found the most interesting were the
flow bench charts that plotted flow numbers vs. valve lift after each
significant change was made to the port.

There were also a few dyno tests using various heads.

Anyway, there are plans in here for building a flow bench with a
barrel, shop vac, and a couple manometers.  Looks kinda neat.

Kevin.

----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 12:32:28 1993
Subject: Re: Edelbrock air/fuel ratio monitor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4776
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> >My next step is to change Edelbrocks "little black box" into a current
> >mode of operation and call NGK in hopes of finding an affordable UEGO.
> 
>      If you can find a UEGO, let me know.   Last I heard they were
> made of "Unobtanium", and way out of bounds on price.

You can get NGK UEGO sensors from your friendly local Horiba distributor.
Price $900.  We ordered a spare about 3 weeks ago, just got it yesterday.

-- 
Jon Lusky
lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu <<== preferred address
lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu

 79 Rx-7 12A/Holley 4bbl
 67 Camaro/350/4spd (under construction)
 89 Jeep Wrangler/258 (currently self destructing)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 12:39:23 1993
Subject: Re: Edelbrock air/fuel ration monitor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4777
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Bob Valentine  writes:

>     From the tone, I can tell that the design is not a good one.
>However, I'd like to get away from the DVM hanging under my dash....
>Would using a 3914 (I used those in grade school for really cool audio
>power meters...) suffice with a 1 wire O2 sensor?

>From what I've seen so far the electronic portion needs some improvements. The
input signal will have to be conditioned/filtered to gain a steady display. The
signal line from the sensor has no loading at all to reduce ignition noise. In
addition, I do not like the voltage generation mode of operation. From some of
the generic voltage-vs-current curves (as a function of lambda), in the SAE
transactions, I intend to find a load line that will maximize the sensor's
dynamic range and hope it works well for this sensor too. In the circuit to do
this, I will include some filtering. The use of the LM3914 is a good choice,
but I don't see it doing the job alone for a 1 wire or 3 wire sensor.


>  [chart showing voltage, air/fuel, lambda deleted]
>     So then, is this chart valid?

I don't think so. IMHO I think Edelbrock wanted a product to match MSD's O2
sensor, which has only one tri-color LED to indicate the mixture condition.
Their gimmick was to add more LED's and who would know if these LED's had any
real meaning? They almost flash in a believable fashion.


>     I don't have the reference here anymore, but I belive a LM3915
>works on current, rather than voltage.   Nice thing about this series
>is that you can chain several of them together to get a rather precise
>display. (ie., a 20 segment display... hell, just carpet the dash with
>those plug in segments! 8^>)

The LM3914 has a linear display and the LM3915 is logarithmic. Both are a
function of input voltage, and both will let you carpet the dash :) .


>     If you can find a UEGO, let me know.   Last I heard they were
>made of "Unobtanium", and way out of bounds on price.

The data sheet I have from HORIBA on their UEGO sensor for the MEXA-110 says
it's made of zirconia and ceramic :) . But at a price of $900, it is
unobtainable. If I can find the time, I'm still going to look for an affordable
one.

[I mentioned awhile back the MOTES A/F analyzer that competes with the MEXA
but costs less than Horiba's sensor.  They told me they were using, I believe,
the Bosch UEGO sensor that is much cheapter than the one Horiba uses.  
Someone else noted that one model of Honda lean burn engine uses a UEGO.
Might want to check the archives for that info.  They're at ece.rutgers.edu
JGD]

John S. Gwynne
   jgwynne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

----------
Posted by: John S Gwynne 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 12:46:43 1993
Subject: Re: TH700-R4 and TH200-4R
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4778
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> forth at high revs, at least on SBCs. If you have access to Research
-> Corp. datasheets it seems to me that they have a good one on this
-> problem of pump lug engagement.

 Eh?  Who is Research Corp, and what else do they have data sheets on?
                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 12:52:15 1993
Subject: Re: SB Chevy Double-Humps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4779
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> So does this mean that all "double-hump" SB Chevy heads are "fuelie" heads?
> I had a '70 Caprice with the 300hp 350 engine that had double-hump heads
> and the accessory mounting holes.
>
> Basically I'm asking if all double-hump heads have better port flow and a
> high probablity of big valves?  Did they all have small chambers?
>
> Thanks,
> Wynand
>     wdepuy@isye.gatech.edu

Just one more quick log to the fire, my dad's '66 Vette 327/300
(original) has the double hump heads and they are 202...  however I
dunno what the chamber size is...  we never measured it when the engine
was appart...  oh well...

Rob.

----------
Posted by: Rob Snyder 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 12:59:19 1993
Subject: Re: small block chevy head id
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4780
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I have a 210 hp 327 out of a 67 camaro. Small journal with 1.94"/1.50"
>heads. The casting marks are 2 squared off pyramids.
>Jim Davies have never seen these heads. Whats funny is that it came
>out of the original camaro with a 4bbl carb NOT a 2bbl
>Any comments?
>
>Frank

My '68 Camaro RS has a 327 - 210 bhp engine with a 2 bbl...  all stock
that has the double flattened pyramid heads on it...  I'm pretty sure
they are 194's but I'm not positive...  confusing...

Rob.

----------
Posted by: Rob Snyder 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 13:16:36 1993
Subject: Re: SB Chevy Head ID
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4781
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Anyone built their own flowbench?  The plans in David Vizard's book
-> look interesting.

 No fake?  It's only three hours to Memphis, which is the closest place
that has that book in stock.  I guess it's an excuse to let the Yamaha
stretch its legs a bit.  
                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 13:22:58 1993
Subject: Re: TH700-R4 and TH200-4R
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4782
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


TCI prices can vary widly.  If you call TCI, you get TCI list.  If you
say you are a "jobber?" you get "jobber list".  If you call Summit with a
particular TCI part number, and happen to be ordering other stuff anyway
so the shipping is not an impact, you pay about 45% of TCI list.  Thats
my experience.  

I'll trade you my Chevy-BOP plate for a running T700R4.  How is that?

	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 13:30:30 1993
Subject: Head gaskets
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4783
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Your friend is mistaken. The 'front' means the front on both sides.
Stands to reason, since the front cylinders always run coolest (since 
they are closest to the radiator and air flow) and the water outlet 
is at the front.

Steve.
BTW, the books agree (Just to be sure). :-)


----------
Posted by: emory!kcbbs.gen.nz!Steve_Baldwin (Steve Baldwin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 13:46:16 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4784
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:

>dennis writes in response to:

>>> >  Ford hasn't made the 352 for close to thirty years. 

>> Gee has it been that long since the Windsor, and Clevland days?

>   Perhaps there is some confusion here.  The 351 engines were of two
>families, Windsor and Cleveland.  The progression of family tree/cousins is:

>   Windsor:  255, 289, 302, 351W     Cleveland:  351, 351M, 400M

>   The 352 was from the FE or big block series as listed below:

>   FE:  332, 352, 390, 427, 428   where the 427 came in several varieties.

>   Still there was one more family of big big blocks:

>    429, 460.

>   Finally, from vague memory, I believe the Boss 302 was a cleveland variant.

I think the 302 BOSS was the 302 small block with special 351 cleveland heads.

My 0.02$

-- 
------------------------------------------------------
    /   /  /     /~~~    
   /   /  /     /~~    
  /___/  /___  /        ( = wolf )

----------
Posted by: emory!eua.ericsson.se!Ulf.Rosberg (Ulf Rosberg)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 15:21:17 1993
Subject: Head gaskets
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4785
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> of the head.  He says that they should be different.  Like the front
-> of the lef head would be open and the back of the right head would be
-> open.  The other ends would be closed.  Now, what do yall think?
...
-> BTW its a 70 351 Windsor

 The blocked holes go to the front.  Often, this means one gasket looks
like it's upside down.  Don't worry about it.

 The idea is to force coolant through the back of the engine by blocking
off the front return holes.

 I'm not familiar with blocking off the front on one side and the back
on the other.  What kind of engines does he normally do this to?
                                                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 15:31:26 1993
Subject: Re: Parts interchange: 1991/92 460 to 1970 429CJ
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4786
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> thanks for the info... My wallet is **CHAINED** to my hip!  Still, I
-> think I just might go for it!

 Let us know what they say - all I saw was their ad, which I duly noted
in the Vendor List.  If they claim to outflow BOSS heads, THAT would
truly be impressive... don't forget to ask about headers and intakes,
and if you need a special head gasket.  Also ask if they use standard
valves and springs out of something generic, or if they're customs.  And
if the secretary is cute, get her phone number....   
                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 16:08:46 1993
Subject: Re: SB Chevy Head ID
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4787
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Strong posibility here.  When Chevy was running low on parts they
-> ocassionally used a higher part in its place.

...and v.versa.  To Chevrolet, the difference between engine model
option codes was usually the carburetor, camshaft, pistons, and
distributor. *Generally* high performance option codes got the good
heads, four bolt bolts (if applicable), etc.  For "special option"
engines like the Z-28 and LT-1, the old 327/365, or Power Pack 283
exceptions are rare.  For "lesser" motors like the 327/300, 350/300,
etc, you can find darned near anything when
     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 16:14:33 1993
Subject: Re: Parts interchange: 1991/92 460 to 1970 429CJ
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4788
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> >  Ford hasn't made the 352 for close to thirty years.  I don't think
-> > they're running them anywhere.
->
-> Gee has it been that long since the Windsor, and Clevland days?  I
-> know if calculate cubes from there bore and stroke it adds up to 352.

 The 352 was an FE series engine; that is, a relative of the 390 and
428.  The Windsor and Cleveland are 351s by Ford's nomenclature, even
though they displace 351.85 cubes.
                                                                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 16:30:14 1993
Subject: Re: Rotary Bashing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4789
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


On 31 Mar 93 13:48, hotrod wrote:

>
>-> GM has a license from NSU/Wankel to produce rotaries.  The 1975 Chevy
>-> Monza was supposed to have a rotary, but all rotary plans at GM were
>-> dropped when the arab oil embargo hit.

I have a book about Corvette's.  It says that the '76 corvette was going
to have a 4 rotor 400hp rotary.  But, the gas crunch killed that.

Back on bikes: I have a friend with a 92 GSX1100R completely tricked
out with nitrous and custom made open pipes.  It throws flames out the
pipes and can light up the tire in any gear.  Needless to say he has
wheelie bars for racing (and they are curved from the force on them).

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 16:50:32 1993
Subject: Scales
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4790
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Could the person who made their own corner scales please write back
to me.  I lost you address.

Thanks
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 16:58:13 1993
Subject: Re: SB Chevy Head ID
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4791
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> > >  I have seen and held
> > > "double hump" castings with open chambers, small ports, and 1.72/1.50
> > > valves.
> > >                                                               
> > 
> > 
> > (Corvette, Camaro and Yenko Nova)
> 
> No not just Yenko Nova`s but the 350 HP 327 option was available directly
> from GM and was avasilable at any Chevy dealership.  It was only offered
> for 1 year on the normal order form but was available for 2 years on
> the special raceing order form which had many delete options like a heater.


I had a feeling that someone would find a Nova that I didn't know about. ;-)

Sorry about that Dennis but I don't know to much about Novas even though
I've often dreamed about a nice Dick Harrel 427 powered 68-69. :-)


                     | David Gunsul       
                     | ...!att!mgweed!mgwhiz!mogun!dcg
                     | or dcg@mogun.uucp      
                     |------------------------------------------------
                     |  It's amazing what $2,500 worth of big block
                     |  will do to $30,000 worth of high technology. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!mgwhiz!mogun!dcg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 17:03:22 1993
Subject: Re: 318
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4792
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>>    I was also told there a certain 360 heads which match up perfectly
>>    and increase compression x2.
The combustion chambers are slightly bigger in the 360 heads thus this will
slightly lower compression. This can be offset by shaving the heads.
360 Heads do match perfectly as long as you keep the stock 1.88 valves.
If you go to the larger 2.02 (340) valves you will have to make a small
notch in the block to clear the valve. The larger valves certainly will
help you motor breath.

>>    Any mopower experts out there?

>No I'm not a mopar man but from what I have heard the 360 was a smog engine
>so I wouldn't expect any improvement with those heads.  My route would be 
>to take the stock heads to a good racing machine shop and you would come
>out ahead dollar wise as well as power wise.
>> 
>dennis

360 heads have larger valves and larger ports, and they really help 318's
to breath as the port size on a 318 are really only 273 castings. You will
need a 340/360 intake manifold to go with that to make full use of the
bigger port size. A good manifold would be the 340/360 Edelbrock Performer.

With 360 heads, I would suggest you use a slightly bigger cam. It depends
if you do any port work. If you don't a good cam is 68 340 manual cam.

Chrysler now have a new 318 swirl port head. These heads are even better
that the 360 heads. Contact your nearest MOPAR PERFORMANCE dealer.

If you need any more help just mail me.

Doug Scott
University of Newcastle
Australia
email: doug@faceng.newcastle.edu.au

----------
Posted by: emory!pluto.UUCP!doug (Douglas Scott)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 17:09:33 1993
Subject: Turbo's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4793
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I'm planning a completly custom built car with mid engine design. My plan
is to use VW transaxle and a Volvo B23 engine with turbo's. One small turbo
(motorcycle style) for low rpm's and one really big for high rpm's.

My questions are:

1) Will the transaxle hold for the amount of power the engine produce? >200 hp
in a car that wheight less than 700 kg (~1400 lbs). If I change my mind, will
it hold for a Chevy SB?

2) Are there any good books about turbo charging?

3) Is there anybody out there with experience of using two turbo's in the way
I mentioned above?

Leif

----------
===============================================================================

Leif Olsson 
Department of Applied Electronics         email: leif@tde.lth.se
Box 118
S-221 00 LUND
SWEDEN

----------
Posted by: emory!tde.lth.se!leif (Leif Olsson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 17:14:16 1993
Subject: Re: 460 Ford parts (was Parts interchange)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4794
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> I've been wanting to put a 460 into my '85 Bronco, but my local 4x4
> expert says that the transfer case won't handle it.  Any ideas?

	What you should do is grab a t-18 and an NP205 out of an
old ford pickup or post 78 bronco.  Even the ones with 351M/400s
bolted to them are susposed to be a really easy bolt up to a
460.
 

----------
Posted by: Robert A Walker 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 17:19:13 1993
Subject: Re:  small block chevy head id
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4795
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> >I have a 210 hp 327 out of a 67 camaro. Small journal with 1.94"/1.50"
>         CYLINDER HEAD IDENTIFICATION
> ---------------------------------------------------
> CASTING NO.	YEARS	USED ON
> 		USED
> 
> 333882		72	350
                       ^^^^

I don't think this is correct.  The last time I was at a junkyard,
333882 castings were very common, I've seen heads made up through the
late 70's with this number on them.  In fact, I am currently running
a set of 333882 heads made in '76 or '77 (can't remember).


----------
Posted by: emory!wam.umd.edu!liane (Liane Marie Langbehn)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 17:24:33 1993
Subject: RE: 318 high altitude help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4796
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>	Did I not understand this right, or did you not say that the
>choice of mopar smallblock head doesn't affect compression?
>	That doesn't sound right to me.  My brother bought a set of 360
>police heads that had the bigger valves, but they also had a tremendously
>large combustion chamber.  The compression is gonna go way down with those.
>	Have you heard of these?  They were built in the 70's to get through
>the emissions stuff.  I think compression ran at 8:1.
>							FC&B

Police 360 heads are the same as any other 360 head from the same year.  The
hipo 360 differed from the standard 360 by having a hotter cam and a Thermoquad.
(lopo 360-4's didn't have the hotter cam.)

I don't have any figures in front of me, but I think all the small block 
chambers are reasonably close in size.  My 273 lopo heads (also used for 273 
hipo) are not strikingly different from my 340 "X" hipo heads as far as 
chamber size.  You can always measure them and mill them down to the size you 
need.  (Gotta mill the intake face a certain percentage of what you mill the 
block face so everything still fits, of course.)  Most of the compression 
differences on Chrysler engines were taken care of by using different 
pistons.  Smogger compression ratios were mostly 8.4:1, pre-smog non-
performance ratios were mostly 8.8:1, not a big difference.

David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 17:30:13 1993
Subject: Corvair list
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4797
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Since there has been some discussion referring to Corvairs, it might be useful 
to mention that there is a Corvair mailing list.  Mail requests to:

corvair-request@shadow.mitre.org

------
Bryan Blackwell bryan@mitre.org (703) 883 7329

'65 Corvair, '66 E-type, '69 Road Runner
If you have to ask the question, you won't understand the answer
------

----------
Posted by: "Bryan Blackwell"  
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  1 17:35:27 1993
Subject: Re: Edelbrock air/fuel ratio monitor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4798
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Also, if my intelligence is correct (and I believe it is), you can gat an NGK
UEGO at your local Honda dealer as they are using this sensor in their lean
burn Civic VX. 5 wire device. Not certain as to what each of the 5 wires does.
Maybe a good project. Don't have the part number handy. 

Jeff Armfield
cr00jsa@ctccummins.cummins.com

----------
Posted by: emory!ctccummins.cummins.com!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 00:13:57 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4799
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>>   Finally, from vague memory, I believe the Boss 302 was a cleveland variant.
>I think the 302 BOSS was the 302 small block with special 351 cleveland heads.
 
This is true.  The Boss 302 had heads that were quite like the Cleveland
heads with huge valves.  Also someone wrote earlier about how you could 
put the Cleveland heads on the Windsor and not the 351M or 400 heads.  Well I
have heard that these will work as well.  I feel that these are in the 
same family with the Cleveland.  Of course there are differences, but not
drastic ones.  My thougts.

Tom McClendon 
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu



----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 00:31:05 1993
Subject: Honda UEGO Sensor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4800
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I mentioned the Honda UEGO sensor in the Civic VX. Straight from Indy Honda :

P/N 395986   Price : $240.91

Jeff Armfield
cr00jsa@ctccummins.cummins.com

----------
Posted by: emory!ctccummins.cummins.com!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 00:42:06 1993
Subject: Re: 460 Ford parts (was Parts interchange)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4801
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 1, 10:31am, The Hotrod List wrote:
} Subject: Re: 460 Ford parts (was Parts interchange)
> On Mar 30, 21:27, The Hotrod List wrote:
> > Subject: 460 Ford parts (was Parts interchange)
> >
> > Oh, and most of this stuff probably won't pass emissions for too many years
> > (but with a mild cam, I bet I can get away with it in my Bronco. :-) )
> >
> > -- Steve
> >
> 
> I've been wanting to put a 460 into my '85 Bronco, but my local 4x4
> expert says that the transfer case won't handle it.  Any ideas?
> 
> Also, I'm about to start building a replacement 460 engine for my tow
> car, the Mercury Grand Marquis Wagon - otherwise known as the Family
> Truckster :-).
> 
> I would like to keep the cost reasonable.  Are there any cheaper
> stroker kits than the Lunati?  I don't want to turn a lot of RPMs,
> just get lots of good towing torque.
> 
> -Bob
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
> | Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
> | Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!mcigate!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
>  
> Bob, the May 93 issue of SUPER FORD page 89 shows L & L Products ad
offering a 429/460 Ford Swap kit  for Ford 2WD/4WD Trucks and Broncos
for 395 and some change.  L & L Products
                          3210 Century Drive
                          Rowlett, TX 75088
                          214 475-5202
                          214 475-8063 FAX
 They also offer a 302 conversion kit too.  They have advertise consistently
over the years with their big block conversions and Super Ford has in the past 
reviewed their kits.  Looks like they might be able to offer some help or 
answer some of your questions. Cheers!

 
> 
>-- End of excerpt from The Hotrod List



-- 
Mike

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive                      |  (Ford 302, Tri-Power,
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   |  4 spd, 9 inch)
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 00:47:23 1993
Subject: Re: Turbo's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4802
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 1) Will the transaxle hold for the amount of power the engine produce? >200 hp
> in a car that wheight less than 700 kg (~1400 lbs). If I change my mind, will
> it hold for a Chevy SB?

How much the car weighs has little bearing on how much power the trans can
handle - if anything, the lighter car would reduce the load on the trans
since the engine would be harder to load. The Bug transaxle is pretty tough
already, and there are a number of aftermarket goodies you can use to either
beef it up or to replace it with a dimensionally equivalent very-tough-case-
indeed. So given my druthers on a development plan, I would say get the car
built, stick in a VW transaxle, and jam a $300 VW flat four on the trans,
and see how it runs. It's almost free, compared to the rest of the project,
and this will give you the chance to shake out lots of bugs and gotchas
that are sure to come up, WITHOUT blowing your nice hi-power special engine.
Then, once you're happy with the way the car works, plug in the real engine
and go with that until the trans blows. Then you can put in a Rhino or
similar extra-tough aftermarket transaxle.


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 00:52:23 1993
Subject: Re: rotary
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4803
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <5k6t8+p@dixie.com> Jon Lusky writes:
>> All I have to say is that rotaries for their size cannot be beat for
>> making HP.
>
>You obviously haven't ever played with a GSXR1100 :)

	Or a ZX-11 :-) :-) (check .sig)

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC	  1991 ZX-11 - pending delivery
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 12:39:00 1993
Subject: Chevy head ID...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4804
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

've looked at the ID charts that have shown up here on this list for
double hump chevy heads, and it made me wonder about an old set that I
have sitting out in the back of a van I have sitting on my property. I
checked out the numbers (3890462) and it looks like they may have came
off of a corvette between the years of 62 to 68. How do I determine
which year they were produced or what year corvette they came from?
-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| What's the reward for a job well done?      Gary L. Berry |
|       No punishment.                         glb@s1.gov   |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Gary L. Berry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 12:48:50 1993
Subject: Re: 460 Ford parts (was Parts interchange)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4805
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I've been wanting to put a 460 into my '85 Bronco, but my local 4x4
> expert says that the transfer case won't handle it.  Any ideas?

I'll be putting my 460 (if you can still call it that when I'm done with
it :-) into a '79 Bronco.  I'm restoring the whole truck and turning it
into a showpiece that goes like hell, that's why I'm going nuts on the 
engine.  The guy I was talking to at the tranny shop said that the NP205
transfer case should hold it no problem (unless I'm putting out over 
750hp, which is possible) and I've got a C-6 in front of it.  From what
I've seen with these conversions, the weak link is the rear end/driveshaft.
I've got the 9" ford rear end, so it shouldn't be a problem, but I think
the '85's have the 8.8(?) rear end in them, and I've seen them go splatto
many times with a stock 460 install job, so I'd really worry about a
re-done 460 turning the rear pumpkin into a small supply of metal filings.

If you have a 460 you want to just drop in, and you have the 351M in your
Bronco now, then it should be a snap to just drop the engine in with a simple
conversion kit.  If you have the 302, you may have to change the transmission
(at least that's what I've been told, I've never done a 302 swap-out before.)

If you want nice low-end torque out of a 460, that is no big deal without
stroking it.  I just wanted something kinda unique, that's why I'm considering
the 512ci stroker kit.  I may just punch it .060 over and go with the aluminum
head/roller cam method of building power, although it will be a little higher
in the RPM range when making it's peak power, and as I may tow the race car
with it sometime, I will probably go for whatever low-end I can get now 
instead of re-camming it later.  

Anyway, I'd check your engine/trans/transfer case combo and see if what you
have will hold up well enough or not as is.  If you are just going with a
mildly warmed over 460, it may be okay to use what's there with a little
preventive maintainance/rebuilding...

-- Steve

----------
Posted by: emory!gte.com!stm0 (Steven McClure)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 13:03:27 1993
Subject: Re: SB Chevy Head ID
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4806
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> The early double bump heads were all the same casting, but they were
>-> finished in two ways;

> How early are we talking about, here?  I've seen quite a few variants.
>                
Lessee, now, double bump head castings;
1)all 327-300 hp
2)all 327-275 hp
3)327-250 hp 1965 and up
4)all 327 more than 300 hp eg 340-350-360-365 hp until bolt hole castings
appeared
JD




----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 13:09:49 1993
Subject: Alan Kulwicki dies.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4807
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I heard on the way in to work this morning that Alan Kulwicki died  
last night in a private plane crash with four or five other people.  
No other details were given.

----------
Posted by: emory!phoenix.az.stratus.com!scol (Scott Colbath)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 13:15:16 1993
Subject: Re: Turbo's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4808
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Then, once you're happy with the way the car works, plug in the real engine
> and go with that until the trans blows. Then you can put in a Rhino or
> similar extra-tough aftermarket transaxle.

Or, just go with a late style bus tranny, that'll never bust on you. 
They come with slightly taller gears, which would be better for your
aplication.  Adapters are redily available through Kenedy and I believe
BugPack.  Uncle runs 40" M+H paddles with a turbo 2000cc pinto, and
breaks the 930 cv-joints (from over-extension I say, but he thinks
otherwise. With the trailing arms extended over 4.5 inches what do
you think!?! Yeah, that's what I thought ;-) .

--DAVE (johnson@wrs.com)

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 13:38:53 1993
Subject: Re: Torque converters of the 70's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4809
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



My file server seems to be constipated so Ill try to resend this,

Ericy


In article , (Eric Youngblood) writes:
|> 
|> Does anyone know if there are differences in the stall speed of the torque
|> converters built and installed in the early 70's (ie 71 Pont TA w/ 455) and
|> those installed in the late 70's (ie 1976 & up).  I know GM began putting
|> lower stall converters about '75 to increase low speed mileage.
|> 
|> Any help appreciated.
|> 
|> $0.02
|> Ericy
|> 

----------
Posted by: emory!eru.mt.luth.se!Peon.w/o.Email   (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 13:45:03 1993
Subject: Re: Edelbrock air/fuel ratio monitor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4810
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>Hey, I could use one of those too!  The black box, that is.  We already
>shelled out $900 to the local Horiba distributor for a spare UEGO for
>our Horiba AFR analyzer, would be nice if we didn't have to fight for the
>electronics like we do now.  There must be ridiculous markup on these, though..
>They wanted $900 for the UEGO (NGK, btw), and $325 for a 20ft extension cord
>for it. 

Bosch now makes a sensor that gives the lamda on the lean side (apparently
it does work on the rich side as well, though one would have to confirm
this with Bosch). The sensor, refered to as the LSM-11, has a SRP here
in Canada of about $325 (considerably less than the UEGO). I believe that they
also sell a diplay unit.  

----------
Posted by: emory!drill.me.utoronto.ca!jaaske (Hannu Jaaskelainen)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 13:51:00 1993
Subject: SB Chevy Double-Humps
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4811
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> So does this mean that all "double-hump" SB Chevy heads are "fuelie"
-> heads?

 No.


-> Basically I'm asking if all double-hump heads have better port flow
-> and a high probablity of big valves?  Did they all have small
-> chambers?

 No.

 The markings *often* indicate such things, but if you buy heads by the
foundry marks without looking at the ports and chambers, you can wind up
shelling out lots of hard-earned dinero for junk.

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  2 13:57:56 1993
Subject: Re: Chemicals to deal with Rust (SUMMARY)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4812
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>    Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1993 13:00 EST
>    From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)


>    Thanks for the responses to my query on what chemicals are available to
>    deal with rust.

>    The only chemical mentioned was "Extend".  It is available in spray cans
>    or brush on.  Only time will tell...

>GAckk!  I knew I should have responded to the original question ...
>Sorry.
I have tried Extend, and some other rust convertors, and they surely do
turn the rust black, at least on the outside. Try scraping the rust after
the extend treatment, and you will see untreated rust underneath ;-(

In my experience, there are two ways to proceed, cheap/nasty or the right
way...cheap and nasty can be spraying the area with boiled linseed oil
( I use a schutz gun, works great) letting it dry then priming it with
an industrial primer, my favorite being RustOleum #269 damp-proof. This actaullygives a durable surface, the downside being that you cannot top coat it with
a lacquer, as primers that will penetrate and seal rust are enamel type. This isa great treatment for underbodies, though. Even quicker is spraying on
rustoleum R9Black. This stuff is designed for quickee rust prevention
on bare steel parts for up to one year. it looks like chassis black
but will wash off with thinner any time. Pretty cheap, too.

The good way consists of removing the rust, sand blasting, etc. If
you cant/dont want to use the normal methods, muriatic acid works
very well, if you use it correctly. It will leave you with
perfectly clean steel to metal-prep and prime. DONT use acid UNLESS
you understand the safety aspects.


>Should I tell you now what time will eventually tell you?

>Well, I suppose it _could_ work, but it never has for me...

>I'd recommend elbow grease, wire brushes, sandblasting, etc.
>Oxysolve (which is apparently a phosphoric (?) acid based product) or
>any similar products, essentially disolve rust.  They tend to be slow, but
>eventually do get rid of the stuff.  They're best used after getting rid
>of as much as you can the hard way.

>Me, I dont trust no `Converted' rust.


>Of course NIST stays away from any question of the effectiveness of any
>chemical whatsoever, and I'm speaking from personal experiences.
>Ever hear of the infamous Battery Additive incident?

Jim Davies






----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 01:59:19 1993
Subject: Re: Turbo's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4813
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Or, just go with a late style bus tranny, that'll never bust on you. 

Does the late bus trans share the early bus trans' trait of being the
reverse rotational output direction wrt input than the bug trans?


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 02:17:11 1993
Subject: Re: Torque converters of the 70's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4814
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Eric Youngblood (Peon w/o Email) wrote:
: 
: |> 
: |> Does anyone know if there are differences in the stall speed of the torque
: |> converters built and installed in the early 70's (ie 71 Pont TA w/ 455) and
: |> those installed in the late 70's (ie 1976 & up).  I know GM began putting
: |> lower stall converters about '75 to increase low speed mileage.

I think the stall speeds were pretty much the same, dependant more on engine
model.  With most of the factory cams, they had a lot of low end torque so
could handle a low stall speed.  My guess that it was only the more radical
cams that might have a slightly higher stall speed (like Pont 455SD, Olds
W-30 455, Buick GSX 455 and Chevy 454).  Since they didn't build any real 
radical cam motors in the late '70s, they didn't need higher stall anymore.  
I'm no expert so I'm just guessing.

Wes Fujii
________________________________________________________________
      ___   ___ ___ 
     /  /  /  //  /
    /  /__/  //  /    A real motor is an Oldsmobile Rocket 455
   /  HURST //  /     "This is NOT the new generation of Olds"
  /  /  /  //  /_______ 
 /__/  /__//  //  ___  \
          /  //  /   \  \       Wes "BANZAI" Fujii
         /  //  /OLDS/  /          Boise, Idaho
        /  / \  \___/  /      wesf@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
       /__/   \_______/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!boi.hp.com!wesf (Wes Fujii)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 02:22:46 1993
Subject: More on O2 sensors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4815
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Does anyone know what the optimum load is for the O2 sensor?

[Yes, high impedance.  JGD]

Thanks
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 15:11:21 1993
Subject: Re: Phone number
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4816
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I am looking for the phone number or address for Circle Track magazine.

						Thanks..


----------
Posted by: emory!Think.COM!salty (john saltamartine)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 15:21:20 1993
Subject: '72 Chevelle SS forsale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4817
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I don't want to sell this car, but I need money for college.
1972 Chevelle Super Sport
Rebuilt 402, four speed, 12 Bolt positrac
Numbers match
110,000 original miles
no rust
Looks and runs excellent
$5995 or best offer.
Call Dennis at (503)343-3759
or email dennisk@cs.uoregon.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uoregon.edu!dennisk (Dennis Kennedy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 15:25:45 1993
Subject: 153 cid Dodge
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4818
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I was just curious about the possibilities of bolting on one of the new
turbo III's onto a plain jane 153. (K VIN) Would the turbo, exhaust, intake,
etc. bolt on or would it be better just to do an engine swap.  Or would 135
parts work?  I just want to get some more power out of it....Your help would
be appreciated.

----------
Posted by: emory!rosie.uh.edu!st207 (Freeman, Corbett L.)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 16:41:55 1993
Subject: Re: Who is the fastest?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4819
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com writes...
> 
>It really would be interesting if sombody with the data available to
>them would post the present NHRA Stock class records and possibly even
>what car and engine holds that present record.  This would really give 
>people a better idea of what potential there machine really should
>have.  
> 
>Anybody out there with that data?

    All this information, and it's alot, is in each week's edition of
NHRA's National Dragster magazine.  I fills a newspaper-sized page, fine
print.  The quickest stock type car is the SS/A '68 Hemi Dart of Flaherty,
with a Ray Barton engine.  9.09 seconds in the 1/4.  The fastest SS/A is
the '68 Hemi Barracuda of Lee Bros. Performance.  They went 148.68 mph.
The records for Top Fuel are 4.784 sec and 301.70 mph set by Cory McClen-
athan and Kenny Bernstein respectively.  That's flyin'.  ;-)

    Jungle

----------
Posted by: emory!lims01.lerc.nasa.gov!xxkozak (JUNGLE)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 16:51:01 1993
Subject: Re: small block chevy head id
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4820
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> I have a 210 hp 327 out of a 67 camaro. Small journal with 1.94"/1.50"
> heads. The casting marks are 2 squared off pyramids.


Ah, this is the problem right here.
The squared off pyramids are NOT fuelie heads at all!

The pyramids mean that the heads were made at the Tonawanda (sp?)
plant in Michigan.


The Fuelie humps are rounded, this is why they are called "camel-hump"
Fuelie heads.
Remember though, the heads also must have NO accessory holes on the front.




                      
                                          
                     
                     |                    
                     | David Gunsul       
                     | mgwhiz!mogun!dcg@mgweed.att.com
                     |------------------------------------------------
                     |  It's amazing what $2,500 worth of big block
                     |  will do to $30,000 worth of high technology. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!mgwhiz!mogun!dcg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 16:52:41 1993
Subject: Re:  small block chevy head id
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4821
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I have a couple of lists of casting numbers and dates -- One source
-> was a GM parts manual and the other came from a hotrod magazine as


 Thanks *very* much!  That'll be quite useful.
                                                                                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 16:55:38 1993
Subject: Re: 460 Ford parts (was Parts interchange)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4822
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I would like to keep the cost reasonable.  Are there any cheaper
-> stroker kits than the Lunati?  I don't want to turn a lot of RPMs,
-> just get lots of good towing torque.

 You can offset grind the crank down to 2.125 and use small block
Chrysler rods for a .375 stroke increase.  With a .060 overbore, that
gives you 495 CID.  The standard pin height is 1.756; the stock rod is
6.6, and the Chrysler rod is 6.125.  That leaves you .100 shy of the
deck, so you would need to run 429 pistons to make up the difference.

 Chrome-A-Shaft wants about $200 to offset-grind a crank; a set of
rebuilt Chrysler rods would be about $100, and maybe another $50 to have
them narrowed to the Ford journal width, and you'd have to have the
small end bushings reamed for the larger Ford pins.  You'd have to have
it all rebalanced, of course.

 Sound cheap enough for a 495?
                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 17:01:14 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4823
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->      The 351M and the 400M are not of the cleveland type engine, they
-> may look alike, but a cleveland is very much like a windsor, the
-> bellhousings are the same, the heads have the same bolt pattern and
-> can be swapped with a little work, or so i hear, also i do believe
-> they use the same engine mounts.  The C and M do have timing chain
-> covers that look alike but the 351m/400 is susposed to be a real easy
-> swap for a 429/460. Also the M family I do believe has longer rods
-> and a higher deck height.

 The 351M and 400 (Ford doesn't call it the M) *are* Clevelands, at
least according to Ford.  They're high-deck 351C-4Vs with larger main
bearing diameters.  The bellhousing bolt patterns are the same as the
429/460, but they bolt in on Cleveland mounts, the heads are exactly
identical to the Cleveland, timing chains, water pumps, oil pans, and
assorted odds and ends are all the same as the Cleveland.

 The 351M/400 actually has the same deck height as a 460.  Why?
Holy Baud alone knows.  Ford simply does wierd things like that.
                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 17:07:21 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4824
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> This is true.  The Boss 302 had heads that were quite like the
-> Cleveland heads with huge valves.

 The *only* difference between the '70 BOSS 302 heads and the Cleveland
351 BOSS or HO heads is the water jacketing.  The 302 had Windsor-style
water returns in the intake manifold face, the Cleveland heads had the
Cleveland block-style returns.  The '69 BOSS 302 heads were fitted with
2.25/1.71 valves, which were downsized to 2.19/1.71 in '70.  Ford
evidently felt a 2.25/1.71 combo was a little more valve than a mere 302
could use.


->   Also someone wrote earlier about how you
-> could put the Cleveland heads on the Windsor and not the 351M or 400
-> heads.

 Whoever it was is wrong, because there's absolutely no difference at
all - not even Ford part numbers - between a 351C-2V, 351M, or 400 head,
other than some of the oddball 351M heads with the potbelly exhaust
port.  I happen to have a pair of 400 heads bolted on my 351W block,
sitting right there in the living room, right next to the refrigerator.
(hey, it's an old house, things are a little odd)
                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 17:12:27 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4825
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I think the 302 BOSS was the 302 small block with special 351
-> cleveland heads.

 Basically, you're right.  I have several magazine articles and some
Ford Muscle Parts literature from the late sixties, and best as I can
tell Mercury Division actually developed the 351C and shipped a very few
in '68 cars, though it was officially a '69 motor.  The BOSS 302
absolutely, positively did not ship until '69, and rather late in the
year at that.  However, Ford's Muscle Parts brochure claims the 351C was
developed from the BOSS 302, but I tend to believe that's ad hype.  If
it were true, then why develop a whole new short block to make the 351C,
rather than simply using the 351W, which came out in '68?

 The BOSS 302 was also available in the Cougar Eliminator, but as an
option.  I've seen half a dozen Eliminators, including several with the
shaker scoop, and all have been bog-standard 2-barrel 302 Windsors with
automatic transmissions.  The Mercury parts books also show the BOSS 429
as an optional engine, and parts breakdowns, and Mercury ads from
'69-'70 sometimes list the BOSS 429 as an option, but I've never seen an
Eliminator with either BOSS.
                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 17:18:19 1993
Subject: Re: Rotary Bashing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4826
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I have a book about Corvette's.  It says that the '76 corvette was
-> going to have a 4 rotor 400hp rotary.  But, the gas crunch killed
-> that.

 GM showed a lot of mid engine Corvettes, Wankel Corvettes, and mid
engined Wankel Corvettes at shows.  The two primary Wankel show cars
were the red two rotor and the yellow four rotor.  The four rotor car
could never have met bumper and headlight standards, as well as some
practical problems with simply getting in and out.  The two rotor car
looked sort of like a cross between a BMW M1 and a Fiero, except better
than both.  I liked it, anyway, and it met all Federal bumper, safety,
lighting, etc standards.

 Zora Arkus-Duntov wanted to use the 2-rotor show car body with the
turbocharged Buick V6 being developed for the Regal.  He wanted a by God
SPORTS car, not a Caprice-sized sled like what the '84 Vette became.
Duntov made such a fuss about it he was booted off the development team
after the Word From Above was, "absolutely NO WAY will the Corvette not
have a Chevrolet V8 engine."

 Warp yourself into an alternate universe and take a look at Duntov's
Corvette.  Mid-engined, 2900 pounds or so, with the Buick Grand National
GNX V6... baaaaaby... can you imagine squaring off against that in
A/Stock?
                                                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 17:27:12 1993
Subject: Scales
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4827
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Could the person who made their own corner scales please write back
-> to me.  I lost you address.

 I made a set.  What did you want to know?
                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 17:33:54 1993
Subject: Turbo's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4828
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> 1) Will the transaxle hold for the amount of power the engine
-> produce? >200 hp in a car that wheight less than 700 kg (~1400 lbs).
-> If I change my mind, will it hold for a Chevy SB?

 I don't know how much power your turbo Volvo would make, but the VW
transaxles the Baja boys build live with >400hp going through them in
serious off-road competition.  They'll hold a small block Chevy fine.
                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 17:42:06 1993
Subject: Chevy head ID...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4829
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> checked out the numbers (3890462) and it looks like they may have

 462s are general high-performance heads, and are considered desirable.
                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 17:48:40 1993
Subject: Re: Late style bus tranny (was Re: Turbo's)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4830
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



On Sat, 3 Apr 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> > Or, just go with a late style bus tranny, that'll never bust on you. 
> 
> Does the late bus trans share the early bus trans' trait of being the
> reverse rotational output direction wrt input than the bug trans?
> 

The direction of the bus tranny can be reversed by simply changing the
side the ring gear is in the case.  And of course rechecking the gear
lash.  The differential in the VW rear engine trannys can be installed
either direction without modifications.  That is how sand racers make the
mid-engine buggies.

Chip Schweiss
cschweis@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu



----------
Posted by: Chip Schweis 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr  4 13:11:59 1993
Subject: Re: Bores 'n Strokes (was Re: Cam)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4831
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
>P.S. If anyone is interested, I can find the bore and stroke for 
>the 221 Ford V8.

221 Ford:  3.50 bore by 2.87 stroke

Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"
 
						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!ARIEL.LERC.NASA.GOV!EDWLT12
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr  4 13:26:22 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4832
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

re: 351/400 Ford,
	I have heard that the 400 Ford had a poor combustion chamber design
that was prone to detonation.  Anyone clear that up?
	There was one in my family's '73 Merc wagon.  A lot of torque yes, but
talk about a weird engine!  The water pump used about 8 or 9 different bolts to
hold it on, and they were all different lengths!  Everytime dad got parts for itthey were different from any other Ford motor.
	I also recall that the disributor fused itself to the block after a whlebecause it was made out of some funky material.  I don't think dad retimed that
engine for the last 10 or so years we had it!
	Anyway, what about that combustion chamber design?
							FC&B

----------
Posted by: FC&B 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr  4 13:37:40 1993
Subject: Re: 460 Ford parts (was Parts interchange)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4833
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>  You can offset grind the crank down to 2.125 and use small block
> Chrysler rods for a .375 stroke increase.  With a .060 overbore, that
> gives you 495 CID.  The standard pin height is 1.756; the stock rod is
> 6.6, and the Chrysler rod is 6.125.  That leaves you .100 shy of the
> deck, so you would need to run 429 pistons to make up the difference.
>
>  Chrome-A-Shaft wants about $200 to offset-grind a crank; a set of
> rebuilt Chrysler rods would be about $100, and maybe another $50 to have
> them narrowed to the Ford journal width, and you'd have to have the
> small end bushings reamed for the larger Ford pins.  You'd have to have
> it all rebalanced, of course.


This sounds like my next 460 rebuild.

Thanks!

-Bob

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr  4 13:49:10 1993
Subject: Ackerman Angles
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4834
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Can someone explain to me why there is a tradeoff between Ackerman and
bumpsteer?  Bumpsteer is adjusted by moving the steering rack up and
down, Ackerman is adjusted by moving the steering rack back and forth,
right?


For instance, in the slot car mustang guide, the steering rack is
moved backwards to improve ackerman, and the offset bushings are
used to adjust bumpsteer.

What am I missing?

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr  4 13:56:23 1993
Subject: F-700
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4835
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Are discussions of tow vehicles (for race-cars, of course) within the
charter of hotrod or wheeltowheel?  Apologies in advance, if so.
Otherwise, please direct me to the tow-vehicle mailing list. :-)

While perusing the local "bargains-for-sale" paper here in Col.Spr,
I noticed a Ford F-700 truck for sale: $4999.

It is a three-ton truck, crew cab, dually (of course).  Nice big
truck, fifth wheel and receiver hitch, ten speeds (5 speeds plus two
speed rear).  It has a 370 engine.

I'm looking for some advice/opinions:

1) I'm concerned about the engine size.  Seems a little small.
   I like to be able to cruise up hills at decent speeds.  The
   engine seems anemic.  Of course, with the gearing, it wouldn't
   stop me from getting anywhere, just slow me down.

2) Maintenance... How much is this think going to cost to fix when
   it breaks?  I'm worried more about the rear and the trans than
   I am about anything else.

What do you think?

Thanks,

-Bob



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr  4 14:02:40 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4836
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

: >         CYLINDER HEAD IDENTIFICATION
: > ---------------------------------------------------
: > CASTING NO.	YEARS	USED ON
: > 		USED
: > 
: > 333882		72	350
:                        ^^^^

: I don't think this is correct.  The last time I was at a junkyard,
: 333882 castings were very common, I've seen heads made up through the
: late 70's with this number on them.  In fact, I am currently running
: a set of 333882 heads made in '76 or '77 (can't remember).


:

I heard that the 333882 were bad heads because they crack.  I think it was
because they were made as emmision intermediate heads and they ran too hot. 
They were made '75-'76.  I heard that you should junk them and get another
set. 

Pat
maloney@badlands.NoDak.edu

----------
Posted by: Usenet login 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr  4 14:11:51 1993
Subject: Re: TH700-R4 and TH200-4R
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4837
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> forth at high revs, at least on SBCs. If you have access to Research
>-> Corp. datasheets it seems to me that they have a good one on this
>-> problem of pump lug engagement.

> Eh?  Who is Research Corp, and what else do they have data sheets on?

Research does research (what else) on automatic transmission related
problems. Has a hotline for trans mechanics to call when stumped on
obscure problems. Owned by Gil Younger, of TransGo shift kits. Very
professional.

Jim Davies



----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr  4 14:13:58 1993
Subject: Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4838
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


     I hope some of y'all can help me out here.    One of my friends
has a '79 Mustang which we built a 302/C4 for.   Runs great, only now
that the warm weather is approaching, some odd problems are occurring.

     The problem seems to be some form of "heat soak" that's
bothering the fuel system.   If we let the car idle for >10 minutes,
and the motor temp gets over 215 deg, it will start to idle rough, and
eventually stall.    It will not restart for about 20 minutes, even
though it has gas and spark;   the carb does not seem to be dumping
excess gas into the intake.    It will also do this same trick while
running on the highway, but the engine is at 200 degrees.

     My initial thoughts tended towards water in the gas, so we
dropped the tank.   About 1 cup of water.   Not enought to generate
problems.
     Next, I made real sure no fuel lines were touching or near any
heat sources.    The line from the pump to the carb does run really
close to the block, but nothing can be done about that.  Didn't help.
     Rebuilt the carb (2 bbl 500 cfm Holley).   No help.  Acutally
seemed to make the problem worse.
     Replaced fuel pump, as it was a little short on the volume test.
Didn't help.

     I checked the spark as soon as it died, and it wasn't that bad,
but could have been better.   Ie., it was a WEAK blue spark, as
opposed to the usual heavy blue spark.

     Does anyone have ANY thoughts on what to do?   
     Do Ford spark-boxes and their components have known thermal
       problems?
     Should I try fabricating some form of heat shield between the
       carb and the manifold?
     Could it be the "oxy" gas and warm weather?
     Should I tell him to junk the Ford and get a Olds?  8^>
     Could I wrap the fuel lines that are in the "hot" places with
       that abestos-type header wrap, for heat protection (if 
       that is indeed the problem)?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr  4 17:37:58 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4839
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>  The *only* difference between the '70 BOSS 302 heads and the Cleveland
> 351 BOSS or HO heads is the water jacketing.  The 302 had Windsor-style
> water returns in the intake manifold face, the Cleveland heads had the
> Cleveland block-style returns.  The '69 BOSS 302 heads were fitted with
> [...]
> I happen to have a pair of 400 heads bolted on my 351W block,
> sitting right there in the living room, right next to the refrigerator.
> (hey, it's an old house, things are a little odd)
>
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>  
> 
What modifications are required to Cleveland heads in order to install
them on a 351W?  The reason I ask is that I have a 351C that I suspect
the block is trash.  I figure that since I have the Cleveland heads in
hand, this is a perfect opportunity.  However, when I asked some ford
mechanics, they seemed to think that the mods would be so extensive and
expensive that I would be better off buying a set of aftermarket heads
for the 351W.  Maybe this would not be true for someone who could do
the work himself.
Also, what would it take to mount the 351W up to my existing transmission?
I have a 72 Cougar XR7 with an FMX auto tranny.

thx. 


----------
Posted by: emory!wam.umd.edu!liane (Liane Marie Langbehn)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 11:24:31 1993
Subject: Re: Torque converters of the 70's (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4840
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

->From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr  3 01:18:59 1993
->Subject: Re: Torque converters of the 70's
->
->Eric Youngblood (Peon w/o Email) wrote:
->:|> Does anyone know if there are differences in the stall speed of the torque
->:|>converters built and installed in the early 70's (ie 71 Pont TA w/ 455) and
->: |> those installed in the late 70's (ie 1976 & up).  I know GM began putting
->: |> lower stall converters about '75 to increase low speed mileage.
->
->I think the stall speeds were pretty much the same, dependant more on engine
->model.  With most of the factory cams, they had a lot of low end torque so
->could handle a low stall speed.  My guess that it was only the more radical
->cams that might have a slightly higher stall speed (like Pont 455SD, Olds
->W-30 455, Buick GSX 455 and Chevy 454).  Since they didn't build any real 
->radical cam motors in the late '70s, they didn't need higher stall anymore.  
->I'm no expert so I'm just guessing.
->
->Wes Fujii
->
My 1980 Z-28 came equipped with a higher stall speed than the plain-jane
Camaro's and Berlinetta's.  I think it is around  1600rpm (I'd have to
check the Car Craft issue from 1980 that has the Z-28 as the "cover car").
I remember a few people mentioning the "slip" in the tranny.  It's been in
a state of perpetual restoration the last 4 years so I'm a bit fuzzy on the
exact stall speed.  Tranny's about the only thing I haven't pulled out of
the car yet.  I suppose I'll have to take a closer look at it seeing as
how I still have to go shopping for a new cam.  I still kick myself for not
getting a 4-speed Z, but my then SO couldn't work a clutch.

-tom kroeten
 Minnesota Supercomputer Center

----------
Posted by: emory!msc.edu!tom (Tom Kroeten)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 11:36:07 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4841
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> What modifications are required to Cleveland heads in order to
-> install them on a 351W?  The reason I ask is that I have a 351C that
-> I suspect the block is trash.  I figure that since I have the
-> Cleveland heads in hand, this is a perfect opportunity.  However,
-> when I asked some ford mechanics, they seemed to think that the mods
-> would be so extensive and expensive that I would be better off buying
-> a set of aftermarket heads for the 351W.  Maybe this would not be
-> true for someone who could do the work himself.

 You need to drill three water holes on each deck surface; you can do
that with a hand drill.  The heads need to have the water returns
blocked off and a hole drilled in the intake face for the Windsor style
water return; B&A does it for $35.  Then you need a B&A Street BOSS
intake and some longer pushrods.

 The Street BOSS costs $265, which sounds like a whole lot until you
realize a comparable Edelbrock 351W intake costs the same.  It's a good,
clean conversion, and B&A has sold thousands of manifolds.


-> Also, what would it take to mount the 351W up to my existing
-> transmission? I have a 72 Cougar XR7 with an FMX auto tranny.

 If the car was originally a 351C, the Windsor block will bolt right up
with no changes.  And you can use your Cleveland motor mounts and
starter too.  Since you already have a Cleveland your exhaust should
bolt right up unless you have a crossover pipe; if so, you'll have to
either bend the pipe or have the crossover lengthened due to the
slightly taller deck on the Windsor.
                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 11:41:26 1993
Subject: 4l60 (thm-700r4) problem
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4842
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Before I drop the tranny out of our project truck, I'll let the net
speculate on my problems...
On the 1-2 shift (manually or automatic) at WOT it starts to shift, RPM's
drop a little, but I lose most if not all power at the output shaft.
It'll stay like this till I back off the throttle.  When I back out of it,
a few seconds later, the engine RPM finally drops to were it should be
for second gear, the tires chirp, and I start accelerating again (don't
back all the way out of the throttle, just down to about half throttle).
The 2-3 shift is very similar, but takes even longer to engage after I
back out.    TV cable setup isn't stock, but seems to be working (and it
is adjusted properly for WOT).  Fluid level is right at the full mark,
using Mobil One ATF.  Had the truck on the chassis dyno today and
noticed a puddle of ATF forming, dripping down from the flywheel cover.
I think this would most likely be a screwed up seal on the torque
convertor (last time the trans was known to be working properly for sure
was before the current engine was built/installed).  Assuming that the
torque convertor seal is bad, how likely is it that this is causing my
shift problems?  Should I tear down the tranny anyway while I've got
it out?

-- 
Jon Lusky
lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu <<== preferred address
lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu

 79 Rx-7 12A/Holley 4bbl
 67 Camaro/350/4spd (under construction)
 89 Jeep Wrangler/258 (currently self destructing)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 11:57:06 1993
Subject: Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4843
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>     I hope some of y'all can help me out here.    One of my friends
>has a '79 Mustang which we built a 302/C4 for.   Runs great, only now
>that the warm weather is approaching, some odd problems are occurring.
>
>     The problem seems to be some form of "heat soak" that's
>bothering the fuel system.   If we let the car idle for >10 minutes,
>and the motor temp gets over 215 deg, it will start to idle rough, and
>eventually stall.    It will not restart for about 20 minutes, even
>though it has gas and spark;   the carb does not seem to be dumping
>excess gas into the intake.    It will also do this same trick while
>running on the highway, but the engine is at 200 degrees.
>     Should I try fabricating some form of heat shield between the
>       carb and the manifold?

Yep - try the heat-shield. Rather, you could probably buy one at your local
parts store. It sounds like you're experiencing vapor lock - you've got spark,
gas and air, and the problem only occurs at high temperatures, when the gas is
on the verge of vaporizing. 200-215 degrees is a little higher than usual (most
cars run a 195 degree thermostat) and that could be causing the problem.
Installing a heat shield would also dissipate heat at the base of the
carbeurator. Good luck!

Christian Aasland - viper@vax1.mankato.msus.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU!VIPER
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 12:02:53 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4844
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->      I have heard that the 400 Ford had a poor combustion chamber
-> design that was prone to detonation.  Anyone clear that up?

 Same old combustion chamber design they used from '69-up.  It's an open
chamber, as opposed to the rarish 4V-closed chamber or Australian 2V
heads.  I've read the "prone to detonation" thing in the magazines too,
and I think they're full of it.


-> talk about a weird engine!  The water pump used about 8 or 9
-> different bolts to hold it on, and they were all different lengths!

 Ford's bad about that.  What's even better is when the car has power
steering and air...


->      I also recall that the disributor fused itself to the block

 Ford's good about that, too.  Ford used an O-ring on the distributor
shaft instead of a paper gasket under the flange.  The O-ring doesn't
leak, doesn't get torn when the distributor is moved or removed, and is
generally the hi-tech solution.  Well, medium-tech, anyway.  However,
that means the upper section of the distributor is dry instead of seeing
oil splash, and it will get condensed moisture and corrode, sealing
itself to the block.  LOTS of WD-40 and gentle persuasion with a BFH are
required to get it loose.
                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 12:38:55 1993
Subject: F-700
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4845
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> It is a three-ton truck, crew cab, dually (of course).  Nice big
-> truck, fifth wheel and receiver hitch, ten speeds (5 speeds plus two
-> speed rear).  It has a 370 engine.

 A 370?!  How old *is* this thing, anyway?  I thought Ford dropped that
engine long ago.


-> 1) I'm concerned about the engine size.  Seems a little small.

 It's probably OK given whatever the truck is geared with; unless
someone special ordered special tall gears it should pull any reasonable
hill with a full load - though last time I was in Colorado Springs, my
1-ton Chevy with the 4.56 rear felt awfully weak pulling the car hauler.
It had lived at 150 feet above sea level all its life.    Uh... is
this a vehicle that was originally delivered in Colorado?  You'll have
to rejet and retime it if not.

 BTW, the 370 is a truck-only variant of the 429/460 family, and one of
either will bolt right up, accessories and all.  A 351M/400 will bolt to
the trans and mounts, but I don't think the accessory holes are the
same.
                                                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 12:48:27 1993
Subject: Re: TH700-R4 and TH200-4R
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4846
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



-> Research does research (what else) on automatic transmission related
-> problems. Has a hotline for trans mechanics to call when stumped on
-> obscure problems. Owned by Gil Younger, of TransGo shift kits. Very
-> professional.

 Sounds great.  How do we get hold of them?
                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 13:03:38 1993
Subject: Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4847
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->    Do Ford spark-boxes and their components have known thermal
->      problems?

 YES!!!  Ford's Dura-Suck is the Ignition From Hell; its specialty is
intermittent failure, rather than just quitting altogether like Delco.
Hmm... I don't believe I've *ever* seen a Mopar electronic ignition
fail.

 I'd try replacing the box, and make sure all the connectors are clean
and it's well-grounded.
                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 13:04:57 1993
Subject: RE: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4848
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 	I have heard that the 400 Ford had a poor combustion chamber design
> that was prone to detonation.  Anyone clear that up?

	I'm not sure about the shape of the combustion chambers, but
i will tell you that they are prone to detonation, any low rpm load
with cheap gas and it starts knocking away.  

----------
Posted by: Robert A Walker 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 13:09:36 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4849
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Dave writes about the Cougar Eliminator:
>....I've never seen an Eliminator with either BOSS>
I've seen one with the Boss 302.  I've also seen one in a mag article which 
also lists the available engines in the Eliminator.  They did mention the 429
but I'm not sure if it was the Boss or not.  The one I saw was a 70'.  It did
not have the shaker scoop, but rather the Boss 429 type.  It was quite nice
none the less.  
Tom McClendon

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 13:14:40 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4850
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Liane's question was one of my own, that is was.  It seemed to expensive
for me, mostly because of the cost of the manifold.  You need to get the
B&A manifold designed for the swap.  I think it was around $260 or so. 
Of course right after I threw out the idea and got my other stuff I found
a guy who had a used one.  Oh well.  The water jacket stuff didn't seem
to be too difficult to me.  I'm sure that Dave can let you know about them.
I have a quite extensive file that I have from when I was asking questions
(and dreaming) about building such a motor.  If anyone would like this info
let me know.  
Tom McCledon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 13:20:10 1993
Subject: Re:  Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4851
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 It sounds like there's a cooling problem to me; why does the water temp
get up to 215? Or even 200? You might be pretty close or at diesel temp
there; I know my V-6 (at only 9-9.5:1) will run without spark if it gets
over 200. Not run well, just run on (have to stuff a towel down the carb
to shut it off). Maybe the radiator is not up to the task, or maybe there
is just a stagnant area inside the heads somewhere that is much hotter
than the average. If average is 200-215 I can see the possibility of
local boiling.

 If the thermostat is working and there's no gross problem with the 
cooling plumbing there's no reason fot the temp to be much above the
thermostat set point, especially at idle. I guess if there are underdrive
pulleys, the water pump might be too slow. 

 To prevent problems with vapor lock or fuel boiling in the bowl, I would
use the tank return line with a restrictor to allow some fuel circulation
at idle (but maintain head pressure at high demand). This will lower fuel
temperature in the line and also help purge any vapor bubbles if they form
under low-flow, high temperature conditions. If there is a problem with 
excessive heat at the carb, a phenolic spacer may be the ticket to cut
heat transfer from the intake. If the radiator is undersized and the fan 
is slow, however, the radiator air may be the source of heat for the carb.
A 4-cylinder radiator isn't always up to the task of cooling a larger
engine; ref dieseling above. I mention this because it sounds like a
transplant deal and there's always the temptation to save a few bucks.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 13:25:51 1993
Subject: Rotary Bashing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4852
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Warp yourself into an alternate universe and take a look at Duntov's
>Corvette.  Mid-engined, 2900 pounds or so, with the Buick Grand National
>GNX V6... baaaaaby... can you imagine squaring off against that in
>A/Stock?

I'll stay down on earth, thank you very much. 

Nope... 

My car doesn't pass tech. I will compete against dragsters, however.

I am building an alcohol injected '66 Vette to compete in super comp. (That's
the 8.90 class...)

-dan a.
dhoward@stratus.com 
----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 14:40:21 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4853
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 5, 12:01, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: 352
>
> ->      I have heard that the 400 Ford had a poor combustion chamber
> -> design that was prone to detonation.  Anyone clear that up?
>
>  Same old combustion chamber design they used from '69-up.  It's an open
> chamber, as opposed to the rarish 4V-closed chamber or Australian 2V
> heads.  I've read the "prone to detonation" thing in the magazines too,
> and I think they're full of it.

I've heard that the Ford trucks with that engine (and other engines)
have problems with running a bit too hot, leading to things like
cracked manifolds and possibly detonation.

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 14:49:01 1993
Subject: Re: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4854
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

My neighbor has a 70 BOSS 302 4 spd Cougar.  Pretty Bitchin car.  He 
doesn't even drive on Sunday's much either. Mike

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Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 14:54:16 1993
Subject: rotary
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4855
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  The local street racers who use rotaries tell me they use them because
they are cheap horsepower. I do not know what parts they use, but they 
often launch at 11000-12000 RPM with minimal parts failures. Their main
problems deal with rotor gear walkout because they haven't yet learned
about locking them in place with snap rings (never use set screws for this).
Apex seals don't mind revs if they are the race variety. Cast iron seals
are a good thing to avoid because :
  1) they are heavy and come off the rotor housing at high speeds, causing
them to hit it real hard and crack.
  2) they are two piece, making them a pain to install.
I have not played with a turbo II engine, although I intend to someday.
I would not replace my 12A with a stock turbo II engine because I think my
car would then go slower (Engines without turbos don't experience turbo lag!)
Anyway, porting changes the engine from a state of utter torquelessness
into a rev monster. Just don't overdo the porting.
As for the chassis, the locals like older rx-3's and suck, but I don't have any
of them to play with anymore, so I use an rx-7. The weight is about the same
as an rx-2 or rx-3, and the driveline is similar. The '79-'82 trans is the
good one. Avoid automatics - they only like torque. Sure a C-4 can be made
to handle much more power than a non turbo rotary can make, but we
found out that the high revs tend to kill 2nd gear rather quickly. Anyway
the automatic kills a rotary's ET's. 
If you want to build a rotary, E-mail me and tell you what you need.

----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr  5 14:58:16 1993
Subject: Re:  Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4856
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Nobody has suggested this yet, but

I read last year in HRM about a company that makes small block ford 
distributers that are GM HEI on top.  No more Dura-no-spark problems.

One of these may solve your problem.  Can even be combined with the
typical MSD setups for a real zapper.

	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

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Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 00:13:11 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4857
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> Nobody has suggested this yet, but
> 
> I read last year in HRM about a company that makes small block ford 
> distributers that are GM HEI on top.  No more Dura-no-spark problems.
> 
> One of these may solve your problem.  Can even be combined with the
> typical MSD setups for a real zapper.

I don't know the pros and cons of the HEI vs Duraspark distributors
mechanically, but as far as the module/box goes, the MSD 6AL has a
magnetic pickup input that will allow you to totally bypass the module/box
in either system (assuming you aren't using a conputer controlled
distributor).  And $150 for a 6AL beats the heck out of $300 for
a custom HEI for a Ford, anyway.


-- 
Jon Lusky
lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu <<== preferred address
lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu

 79 Rx-7 12A/Holley 4bbl
 67 Camaro/350/4spd (under construction)
 89 Jeep Wrangler/258 (currently self destructing)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 00:23:22 1993
Subject: Tow vehicles, was Re: F-700
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4858
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Bob Wise says:
>It is a three-ton truck, crew cab, dually (of course).  Nice big
>truck, fifth wheel and receiver hitch, ten speeds (5 speeds plus two
>speed rear).  It has a 370 engine.
>
>I'm looking for some advice/opinions:

Hey Bob,
  I assume you have checked the local laws about parking a monster
vehicle...  a friend got into a sticky situation because of some cheezy
ordinance:  turns out he couldn't park his car hauler at his house
because it was over a certain gross weight.  Something else to consider...
JC.  jca@fibercom.com

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Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James "Dude" Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 12:37:15 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4859
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> to be too difficult to me.  I'm sure that Dave can let you know about
-> them. I have a quite extensive file that I have from when I was
-> asking questions (and dreaming) about building such a motor.  If
-> anyone would like this info let me know.

 Aw, heck, Tom.  That's about the eighth time the question has come up
in the last year.  Why don't you make up a FAQ?  
                                                                           

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 12:42:10 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4860
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I've heard that the Ford trucks with that engine (and other engines)
-> have problems with running a bit too hot, leading to things like
-> cracked manifolds and possibly detonation.

 Possibly, but that's Ford's sorry-ass attempt at emission controls
causing the trouble, nothing to do with the combustion chamber shape.

 The whole Cleveland cylinder head is just a thinly disguised rip-off of
the big block Chevy head.  For a long time, Cleveland builders had to
make do with Chevy studs, valves, guide plates, and rockers, with a
little fiddling hither and yon.  Hey, if you're going to copy, you might
as well copy from the best, right?
                                                                  

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 12:46:35 1993
Subject: Re:  Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4861
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I read last year in HRM about a company that makes small block ford
-> distributers that are GM HEI on top.  No more Dura-no-spark problems.

 Hey, I did that in 1981!  Hacksawed the GM top off and had it welded
onto the Ford shaft.  Cleared the intake manifold (just barely) and
worked fiiiine.  Now that I have a lathe I could do it again, but after
listening to John talk about triggering the HEI or Chrysler modules with
points, I'll probably just use a Dura-Suck distributor housing and
pickup and a Chrysler module.  My buddy Doug is cloning a few Carter
Knock Eliminator boxes for it.  If it weren't for that and I had to
recurve the distributor, I'd certainly want the GM HEI top - you can get
zillions of weights, springs, and cams to control the advance, and
they're right there on the top.  Fords like to hide them underneath
where you have to disassemble the distributor to get to them.
                                          
[Oh my Gawd, what have I done?  (I gave Dave a Carter Knock Eliminator)
You're gonna actually create more of those things?  Carter's idea
of eliminating knock is to puke a piston through the bottom of the block!

All joking aside, Dave, why don't you adapt one of the GM knock controllers
instead?  It at least has a chance of working.  The problem with any of
these devices that don't do signature analysis is at high RPM where knocking
does the most damage, it is impossible in a generic manner, to 
discriminate between mechanical noise and knock.  The digital controllers
such as the J&S unit, can distinguish between knock and noise but that
unit is kinda expensive.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 15:40:36 1993
Subject: Early Nova Suspension Mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4862
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I think it was HRM that compared the stock suspension on an early
Nova with Rice Crispies, (snap, crackle pop). I'm trying to improve
the suspension/brakes on my '64 without paying more than the car's
worth, and could use a little help.

I picked up some spindles, rotors and calipers at a wrecking yard this
weekend.  I found a car there that had all the parts, and wasn't half
underwater.  I had to wade through 6" of mud, but the price was right,
$25 for all you can carry.  The donor car was a '78 Cutlass with 10.5"
rotors.  The spindles are 6.5" between the upper and lower ball
joints, which is about 0.5" taller than the Nova's.  I think an
alignment will be able to make up this difference.

I don't think the stock lower ball joint on the Nova will match these
rotors, it looks like the shaft is a little small.  So I have yet to
figure out what to do there.

I'm also thinking about trying to fit rack and pinion steering on
this thing.  The stock steering box is way worn out, and even after I
put new bushings in the idler arm, it still wobbles bad.

I have seen a lot of pinto racks used for swaps, but I think I want
something out of a car with about the same weight.  I would like to
stick with a manual rack if possible.  Any suggestions?  Any tips on
mounting the rack would also be appreciated.

I'm also looking for a source for poly bushings for this car.  I got a
catalog from Global West which has a lot of neato stuff.  They have a
kit to replace the lower control arm bushing with a spherical bearing,
but it runs about $150 each.  They also sell their Del-ALum Bu$hing$
for the upper control arms, but they are also priced way up there.
The eccentric lock out kit they sell looks like just a couple
squares of 1/4" steel.  I am guessing that these are welded to the
frame to prevent deflection in the stock eccentric retaining clip.

I'm still in the idea/parts collecting stage of this project, I hope
to be putting something together soon.

Thanks,

Kevin.~

----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 15:51:33 1993
Subject: cylinder heads
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4863
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Dave Williams replied...

 Possibly, but that's Ford's sorry-ass attempt at emission controls
causing the trouble, nothing to do with the combustion chamber shape.

 The whole Cleveland cylinder head is just a thinly disguised rip-off of
the big block Chevy head.  For a long time, Cleveland builders had to
make do with Chevy studs, valves, guide plates, and rockers, with a
little fiddling hither and yon.  Hey, if you're going to copy, you might
as well copy from the best, right?
------------------

Ummmm...  methinks you'll find that the bigblock Chevy head is a thinly-
disguised rip-off of the Chrysler 'polyspheric' head of the late-fities and
early-sixties...  I do agree with your sentiment and statement regarding
copying the best, however... since it was Chrysler that was copied.

Walt K.
----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 17:17:15 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4864
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

   
     Well, it looks as if I've finally solved the problem.    I tried
the heat shield under the carb, and it helped only a little...
     After messing with it a while, I found that the EGR spacer plate
that fits between the carb and the manifold was getting really damm
hot.   I yanked the plate, and installed a gasket that blocked EGR
gasses to the plate.   Car idles forever, without stalling.   It still
idles at 210 deg, even with a 190 deg thermostat.  (ECO-NAZI's FLAME ME)
     When we yanked the 4-holer, we replaced the 1 row radiator with a
2 row out of a 83' LTD.   The new (used, actually) radiator was really
clean...   For cooling, it's using 2 large fans, 1 pusher, 1 puller.
To my knowedge, a 3-row does not exist for a Fox body car.    
     
    Should a 2 row be able to cool this thing?   

Thanks for all your help, guys.   Just again proving this list is
great!

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  


----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 17:22:00 1993
Subject: Re: Early Nova Suspension Mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4865
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>...And Keven says lots of stuff about 64 nova...
> 
> I'm still in the idea/parts collecting stage of this project, I hope
> to be putting something together soon.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Kevin.~
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
>  
> 
> 
> 
Hey Kevin;


	My son and I are about in the same situation as you. His is a
63, but the spindles have been cut in half and rewelded together for the
slammed look. Since putting the 350 in with the Morraso pan, he now has
about an inch of clearence from the pan to the ground. Just leaning on
the fender causes it to bottom out (6cyl springs). We've looked at the
HRM article also, but haven't called about prices as yet for the beafier
lower control arms or bushings and ball joints. We're thinking of maybe
just grafting a camaro or later model nova front end onto the slightly
less than substantial frame rails of the 63, but need to look at it a
little more closely. I'll try to keep you posted if we come up with
anything.  BTW, where did you get those parts for $25??

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| What's the reward for a job well done?      Gary L. Berry |
|       No punishment.                         glb@s1.gov   |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Gary L. Berry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 17:31:45 1993
Subject: Re: 352
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4866
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article <1a!v+rp@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com writes...
>>  The *only* difference between the '70 BOSS 302 heads and the Cleveland
>> 351 BOSS or HO heads is the water jacketing.  The 302 had Windsor-style
>> water returns in the intake manifold face, the Cleveland heads had the
>> Cleveland block-style returns.  The '69 BOSS 302 heads were fitted with
>> [...]
>> I happen to have a pair of 400 heads bolted on my 351W block,
>> sitting right there in the living room, right next to the refrigerator.

So, what kind of gas mileage does your frig get :-)

>> (hey, it's an old house, things are a little odd)
>>
>> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>>  
>> 
>What modifications are required to Cleveland heads in order to install
>them on a 351W?  The reason I ask is that I have a 351C that I suspect
>the block is trash.  I figure that since I have the Cleveland heads in
>hand, this is a perfect opportunity.  However, when I asked some ford
>mechanics, they seemed to think that the mods would be so extensive and
>expensive that I would be better off buying a set of aftermarket heads
>for the 351W.  Maybe this would not be true for someone who could do
>the work himself.

I believe it mostly takes a bit of drilling (don't know if it's in the block
or the heads, or both) for the water jacket, and an aftermarket intake
manifold made specifically for Cleveland heads on the Windsor block.  An
article titled "Clevor" comes to mind - from Hot Rod? a few years back.
>Also, what would it take to mount the 351W up to my existing transmission?
>I have a 72 Cougar XR7 with an FMX auto tranny.

I think it bolts right up, but from what I've heard, you may want to put a
race-prepped C4 in, in place of the FMX.

> 
>thx. 
> 
> 
>----------
>Posted by: emory!wam.umd.edu!liane (Liane Marie Langbehn)


Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"

						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!venus.lerc.nasa.gov!edwlt12 (Mike Jamison (ADF))
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr  6 23:09:08 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4867
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 6, The Hotrod List wrote:


>      When we yanked the 4-holer, we replaced the 1 row radiator with a
> 2 row out of a 83' LTD.   The new (used, actually) radiator was really
> clean...   For cooling, it's using 2 large fans, 1 pusher, 1 puller.
> To my knowedge, a 3-row does not exist for a Fox body car.    

Sure one does. Just get a '79 Fairmont _towing package_ radiator, and
have your local radiator shop solder in a 1.25" inlet neck. Works great,
drops right in- that's what I use on my '86 Mustang track car. I liked 
the idea of getting for $85 what other guys were spending $250 to get 
from Modine or Griffin.

A two row really won't cool the car well enough for hard driving. The 
first season I had my car on the track, I took the advice of a friend 
who ran Mustangs in the Escort series- he told me that the best 
solution for overheating in a showroom stock Mustang was to stop 
looking at the gage... For the '88 season I finally decided I had 
to do something, and I'm glad I did. I still have my head gaskets.

I just hated hearing that metallic tinkling sound as the car cooled in 
the paddock between sessions. Look around and snag this replacement 
radiator- they're very cheap, and very worthwhile.

-skod

--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and sometimes driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@sun.COM

----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Scott.Griffith (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 06:35:22 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4868
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>      When we yanked the 4-holer, we replaced the 1 row radiator with a
> 2 row out of a 83' LTD.   The new (used, actually) radiator was really
> clean...   For cooling, it's using 2 large fans, 1 pusher, 1 puller.
> To my knowedge, a 3-row does not exist for a Fox body car.    
 
Both of those fans electric?  If so, get a real fan shroud and a clutch fan.
A clutch fan will flow ALOT more air than any electric fan I've tried.

-- 
Jon Lusky
lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu <<== preferred address
lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu

 79 Rx-7 12A/Holley 4bbl
 67 Camaro/350/4spd (under construction)
 89 Jeep Wrangler/258 (currently self destructing)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 06:39:59 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4869
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 6, 21:37, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
> On Apr 6, The Hotrod List wrote:
>
>
> >      When we yanked the 4-holer, we replaced the 1 row radiator with a
> > 2 row out of a 83' LTD.   The new (used, actually) radiator was really
> > clean...   For cooling, it's using 2 large fans, 1 pusher, 1 puller.
> > To my knowedge, a 3-row does not exist for a Fox body car.
>
> Sure one does. Just get a '79 Fairmont _towing package_ radiator, and
> have your local radiator shop solder in a 1.25" inlet neck. Works great,
> drops right in- that's what I use on my '86 Mustang track car. I liked
> the idea of getting for $85 what other guys were spending $250 to get
> from Modine or Griffin.
>

I'm using a four core from "Desert Cooler".  Works great.  After
buying it, I noticed that it is the same radiator as is in my '76
Mercury Grand Marquis Wagon (w/460), so you might try a radiator out
of a mid seventies big block car.

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 11:52:31 1993
Subject: cylinder heads
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4870
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Ummmm...  methinks you'll find that the bigblock Chevy head is a
-> thinly- disguised rip-off of the Chrysler 'polyspheric' head of the
-> late-fities and early-sixties...  I do agree with your sentiment and
-> statement regarding copying the best, however... since it was
-> Chrysler that was copied.

 Um, my '55 Chrysler service manual shows a polyspheric head.  Other
than being canted-valve, I don't see a whole lot of similarity between
it and the Chevy, but I won't argue the point.  

 One peculiar thing - the manual shows the heads had separate iron valve
seats.  Why would an iron head have separate seats?
                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 11:59:50 1993
Subject: Scales
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4871
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Sorry for the net send on this one.

I am having trouble getting mail out to Dave Williams.

Dave, could you please send me your design for the scales you built.

Thanks
Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:07:01 1993
Subject: Glass heads
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4872
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

John,

You mentioned a while back that you did some work with a Pyrex cylinder 
head. I may be in total dream mode here but what are the chances of 
that as a practical proposition ?
I'm thinking of my sidevalve motor here. A running motor with a pyrex 
head would sure make those finned aluminium Edelbrock heads look real 
boring.

Steve.

PS. When I say practical, I mean in it in the same way that a T-bucket 
is practical.

[Do-able but probably not too practical.  The head I made was for a small
2 stroke single cylinder with a simple hemi combustion chamber.  This 
shape was ground using fairly conventional lens-making techniques.
Grinding an arbitrary combustion chamber shape could be done with 
a sandblaster but polishing it optically smooth would be a real chore.

More importantly from a practicality perspective is the fact that
the glass does not conduct very much heat and therefore does not
cool.  My runs were only for seconds at a time.  In order to seal
the head to the cylinder, I had to fit an ordinary O-ring to the cylinder
and put rubber washers under the mounting bolts.  This limited the amount
of heat tolerable.  The spark plug was mounted in a metal sleeve epoxyed
into a hole drilled through the glass.  This also would withstand only
minor heat.

Last is the cost.  My experiment became a reality when I found an approx
4" thick pyrex mirror blank in the school's optical lab.  This thing 
was pretty expensive.  Getting a thick slab of glass large enough
to cover 4 heads would probably increase the national debt.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!kcbbs.gen.nz!Steve_Baldwin (Steve Baldwin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:12:44 1993
Subject: Ford block series question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4873
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Let me get this Ford stuff straight...
if the 289, 302, 352 is the "small block", and 352, 390, 427 is the
"big block", and 429, 460 is another "big block" series. Where does the
428 belong?

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:17:16 1993
Subject: Re: TH700-R4 and TH200-4R
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4874
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:



>-> Research does research (what else) on automatic transmission related
>-> problems. Has a hotline for trans mechanics to call when stumped on
>-> obscure problems. Owned by Gil Younger, of TransGo shift kits. Very
>-> professional.

> Sounds great.  How do we get hold of them?
>                                
Easiest way is to ask at any trans shop that has been around for awhile.
Almost everyone uses Gils kits. Better than free sex (to a trans mechanic)
JD



----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:22:16 1993
Subject: Re: Torque converters of the 70's (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4875
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>My 1980 Z-28 came equipped with a higher stall speed than the plain-jane
>Camaro's and Berlinetta's.  I think it is around  1600rpm (I'd have to
>check the Car Craft issue from 1980 that has the Z-28 as the "cover car").
>I remember a few people mentioning the "slip" in the tranny.  It's been in
>a state of perpetual restoration the last 4 years so I'm a bit fuzzy on the
>exact stall speed.  Tranny's about the only thing I haven't pulled out of
>the car yet.  I suppose I'll have to take a closer look at it seeing as
>how I still have to go shopping for a new cam.  I still kick myself for not
>getting a 4-speed Z, but my then SO couldn't work a clutch.

Common diameters of GM convertors are: 13, 12, 11, 10 inches
Everyone knows that, in general, as diameter decreases, stal speed
increase. Interestingly, though, many of GMs hiperf TCs were
built on the 13 inch pot, this unit is usually listed as a GM3
in overhaul books, and came with most th400 trans, but it will
fit in a th350 also. If you find a GM3 with plunge welded vanes,
you have found a GM hiperf GM3, often used in corvettes. If you
find one of these with six drive lugs, you have hit the jackpot ;-)
JD






----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:29:17 1993
Subject: Re:  Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4876
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [Oh my Gawd, what have I done?  (I gave Dave a Carter Knock
-> Eliminator) You're gonna actually create more of those things?
-> Carter's idea of eliminating knock is to puke a piston through the
-> bottom of the block!

 The one on Monzilla has been in operation about ten years, still works
fine, and was on the car when we took first place at the Divisionals.
It beats the snot out of playing Advance Curve Man any day of the week.

[Depends on what you call "work".  I know from instrumenting the one I gave
you that at medium and high engine speed it hears the valve train rattle
and slams the timing back more or less continuously.  Admittedly a
Datsun OHC engine and the BMW OHC engine (I ran it on both) have more valve 
noise than a V-8 with hydraulic lifters but I doubt the box's response to a 
bit less valve noise would be much different.  It DOES do a good job of 
getting rid of low speed rattle but that's mainly an esthethics issue. ]

-> All joking aside, Dave, why don't you adapt one of the GM knock
-> controllers instead?  It at least has a chance of working.

 You *are* joking.  I have been looking for one in the junkyard for
eight or nine months.  GM didn't make many of them.  My friendly Chevy
dealer wants THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS for the box, weirdo ignition module,
and sensor.  I ain't gonna pay it.

[Whot, did Slick Willie take all the good junk yards with him when he 
left? :-)  First little podunk 10 acre junkyard I walked into had
exactly what I wanted.  ]

-> discriminate between mechanical noise and knock.  The digital
-> controllers such as the J&S unit, can distinguish between knock and
-> noise but that unit is kinda expensive.  JGD]

 Isn't that one about $500?  From their propaganda sheet, it looked like
they expected you to already have a late-model, computer equipped car,
to which you attached their box.  I don't need an "engine management
system", I just want to keep from holing a piston at an embarrassing
moment.

[It will work with any conventional distributor ignition.  I'm not 
sure about points.  I did see one in use on an old Porsche 912 at the 
Porsche club race at Road Atlanta two weeks ago.  I didn't get a chance
to talk to him because I was too busy helping another fellow work
out his Electromotive crank trigger problem (Jon, don't say a WORD!) 
I'm going to see if I can get one of those to evaluage for the mag.]

 You keep mentioning all these wonderful systems, but I don't see
anything that will (a) work on a non-electronic motor, and (b) doesn't
cost the proverbial arm and testicle.  I can get the spark curve pretty
damned close with an ordinary distributor.  Is the last, ultimate degree
of timing that critical?  Not in my experience.  My $500 would be much
better spent somewhere else.
                                   
[That's a personal choice, of course.  I'd spend the $500 as insurance
against having a bad batch of gas or a mis-read timing mark trashing
my engine.  $500 is a lot of money but in the context of other 
Hi-Po parts, not terribly bad.  

For drag racing power, I agree that a simple distributor advance curve 
will do the job.  No concern with midrange power or economy.  For 
street hotrod motors - my main interest - I DO care about the best possible
midrange torque and the best possible mileage if for no other reason that
I want to skip a gas station here and there.  Electronic timing control
makes a remarkable difference in a street environment.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:33:56 1993
Subject: Hitachi distributor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4877
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I have a friend with an engine that has a Hitachi LED type distributor.
It also has a dual coil setup. The engine is out of the car and he'd
like to be able to fire it up without hooking up the computer, etc. to 
test for knocks, excessive smoke or other undesirable characteristics.

The distributor has four wires out: black/white, black, red and green.
One of the coils has three wires in and the other four. Is there a 
simple way to interconnect all three with 12V and a ground without
frying everything?

If not, what's the going rate for boat anchors?

Vic Cook

----------
Posted by: emory!sierra.com!vcook (Victor Cook)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:38:34 1993
Subject: Another Ford Engine Question (360)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4878
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I'm in the market for a towing vehicle for my Drag car.  I've found a 1970 
Ford Pickup with a 360 with an automatic transmission.

Of course, I can't just leave well enough alone.  If I get the truck I'd put 
a new cam (RV) in and probably try to improve the air flow into the 
cylinders via 4bbl and new intake.  (I'm pretty sure its only a 2bbl now)

My question:  Is the 360 any good?  What kind of performance does it 
provide?  Is it durable?, etc,etc...

You can respond here or E-mail me at:

ken.cullinan@clemsonsc.ncr.com

----------
Posted by: "Cullinan, Ken" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:44:43 1993
Subject: Crank Dampers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4879
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


   Hi all,

     I am currently running a Fisher friction damper on my drag car and feel
that it is causing the converter bolts to loosen.  I want to switch to 
either an ATI or Fluidampr.  I understand the ATI is tunable with O-rings,
but Vibratech claims their Fluidampr works over the complete RPM range as
is.  

    Is either damper better than the other?  Does anyone have any 
experience with either one?  Any help in choosing one over the other
will be greatly appreciated.

    Jungle

----------
Posted by: emory!lims02.lerc.nasa.gov!xxkozak (JUNGLE)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:49:33 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4880
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Both of those fans electric?  If so, get a real fan shroud and a clutch fan.

     I've been trying for 2 years to get one.   I couldn't cut down
the 4-holer shroud, and the inline and V sixer motor shrouds don't
fit.
     Seems every junkyard I go to either breaks them, or they're
missing when I get there.   Local Ford dealer doesn't even want to see
me, unless I'm interested in the entire Motorsport catalogue of
parts...

    Last summer, I bought one NEW for my '71 Olds, and it cost only
like $35.   I can't even find a new one for the Mustang.   Anyone got
_ANY_ sources for one?

>A clutch fan will flow ALOT more air than any electric fan I've tried.

    I'd agree.   The electrics were a quick alternative to the
non-existant shroud and fan.   It works pretty well.   Usually keeps
the car at 200-205 idling (no, we haven't tried the A/C 8)) and we can
turn them off after 30 mph...   I'd still like to get a shroud if
possible, and leave one of the fans in place for "severe duty"
events...

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 12:55:47 1993
Subject: Re: Early Nova Suspension Mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4881
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> just grafting a camaro or later model nova front end onto the
-> slightly less than substantial frame rails of the 63, but need to
-> look at it a little more closely. I'll try to keep you posted if we

 It'd be a LOT of work.  The Chevy II is a true unit body.  The Camaro
uses a rubber-mounted front subframe.  You could get it under there, but
the car would sit up like a four wheel drive.  To get the ride height
right, you'd have to section it into the unibody, which would be a ton
of sheet metal work and welding.

 It still wouldn't address the oil pan clearance problem.  The pan's
gotta go unless you raise the car back up.
                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 14:16:25 1993
Subject: Re: Ford block series question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4882
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Actually, the windsor series is made up of the 221,260,289,302,351W.
The FE Series is made up of the 352,390,406,427,428. The 385 series includes
the 429,460, which also has the BOSS 429.  I have forgotten what the cammer
came from but you also have the 427SOHC as another motor. Then there is 
the 351C Cleveland as opposed to the 351W Windsor and the BOSS 302, BOSS 351
and the 351M,400 which are variations of the CLeveland. It is a real hodge-
padge of cats and dogs engine wise, which now includes a 4.6 litre V-8 too.
Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 14:20:00 1993
Subject: 69 nova
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4883
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


greetings:
  i'm in need of some help with a brake swap for my 69 nova.  i want to
change the front drums for power disks.  many mail order places have
kits that run from $600 up, but i'm hoping to find something i can pull
from a junkyard and graft on.  also (while the front end is stripped
down, i'm going to re-bush (putting new bushings in) the a-arms, and i
was wondering what else i can do to improve the cornering (ie with new
bushings will the car be responsive, or will it still corner like a 
barge)?  i'm trying to keep this a lo-budget deal, so are new/tubular
a-arms worth the cost for a daily driver?
  i've gotten lots of advice about what constituted a plug-n-play part
(ie direct swap), but most of the info is contradictory (ie mr. a says
that car x parts will work, but mr. b says car x parts won't fit but the
parts from car y will do just fine...).  any thoughts?
  i don't do welding but am otherwise mechanically inclined (but this
will be my first brake conversion, and i want it to be safe).  please
mention what parts should be inspected carefully and what i should plan
on replacing/rebuilding so i can start saving...

later,
kc

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 14:34:09 1993
Subject: Re: Early Nova Suspension Mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4884
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> >...And Keven says lots of stuff about 64 nova...

[removed the remainder of Kevin's original post...]

> 	My son and I are about in the same situation as you. His is a
> 63, but the spindles have been cut in half and rewelded together for the

Whoa, this sounds spooky, is there really a robust, reliable and safe
way to do this spindle mod?

> slammed look. Since putting the 350 in with the Morraso pan, he now has

[balance ommited...]

-- 
Mark Walker			| I daydream about fusing two Buick 	
mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu.	| V6s into a V12 and stuffing it into a	
505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)	| chopped 'n dropped '53 Buick Super...	
Albuquerque, NM			| 	Am I sick, or what?		

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 14:41:23 1993
Subject: Ford block series question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4885
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


   Date: Wed, 7 Apr 93 10:14 EDT
   From: FBS3@OAS.PSU.EDU

   Let me get this Ford stuff straight...
   if the 289, 302, 352 is the "small block", and 352, 390, 427 is the
   "big block", and 429, 460 is another "big block" series. Where does the
   428 belong?

It's actually:

221, 255, 260, 289, 302W, 5.0, 5.0 HO -- "small-block", 8.2" deck
height, with Windsor inline-valve heads; 5.0 variants still in
production.

Boss 302 -- a 302W with modified Cleveland heads; built 1969-'70.

351W -- small-block with 9.5" deck height, Windsor heads; still in production.

351C -- small-block with 9.2" deck height (?) and Cleveland canted-valve
heads; built from '68(?) to '73(?).

351M, 400 -- variants of 351C; 400 still in production?

All of the small-blocks share bore spacing, most have nominal 4" bore
(except 221 and 255?), though many other details differ.

312(?), 332(?), 352, 390, 406, 427, 428 -- FE series, discontinued about
1970.  (Is this the "Y-block" series?)  427 "side-oiler" gained
notoriety in Cobras.

427 SOHC -- originally NASCAR special; FE (side-oiler?) block with
one-off single overhead cam heads.

370, 429, 460 -- "385" series, head design similar to Cleveland; 460
still in production as truck motor; very popular drag race engine.

Boss 429 -- another NASCAR special, a 429 with special "semi-hemi"
heads.  Again only available '69-'70, though replacement heads still
available through SVO.

The newest V8 family is the Modular.  Currently only available in 4.6
litre displacement, with SOHC 2-valve and DOHC 4-valve heads.

 -- Chuck Fry, certifiable late-model Fordnatic

     Chuck Fry  chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov  chucko@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov
   Join the Silicon Valley protest against 55 MPH!  Email me for details.
	    I alone bear responsibility for the claptrap above.

----------
Posted by: Chuck Fry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 14:47:46 1993
Subject: Re:  Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4886
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

    Date: Wed, 7 Apr 1993 10:51 EDT
    From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)

     You *are* joking.  I have been looking for one in the junkyard for
    eight or nine months.  ....

    [Whot, did Slick Willie take all the good junk yards with him when he 
    left? :-)  

_Jesus_, John, dont get him started on that again! :>
It's bad enough having to read it in the papers. :<

  bruce
  miller@cam.nist.gov
  

----------
Posted by: Bruce R. Miller 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 14:55:23 1993
Subject: Re: Ford block series question 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4887
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Frank writes:

> f the 289, 302, 352 is the "small block", and 352, 390, 427 is the
> "big block", and 429, 460 is another "big block" series.
> Where does the 428 belong?

   Maybe you are new to the group.

   Okay one more time.

   255, 289, 302, 351W are Windsor small blocks.
   351C is a Cleveland small block which was adulterated for smog to 351M and
      400M.
   332, 352, 390, 427 (special stroke/side oiler/high port, etc), 428 are
      'FE' Big Blocks or just big blocks.  I think there was a 40? in there as
      well.
   429, 460 are another big block family altogether.

----------
Posted by: Gordon Laird CDC 553-2988 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 15:00:24 1993
Subject: Spring settle
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4888
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I just dropped the motor in my car (70' fastback).  The front end didn't
go down as much as I wanted and now it is higher than the back.  I heard
that it takes a little while for the springs to settle.  How long would
yall figure, and how much will the settle?  I have 720# coils.  I wanted
the 620#, but the guy said it would lower my car close to 3 inches.  Thanks.
Tom McClendon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 15:48:46 1993
Subject: Manifold swap in 3rd generation Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4889
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

   I've got and 84 Berlinetta with the stock 305 4V, and I'm speculating 
about replacing the stock manifold with an aftermarket dual-plane perf.
manifold. Does anyone have any experience with the power increase acheived
with this simple swap? ie. is it worth the money?

----------
Posted by: emory!VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU!VIPER
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr  7 23:47:58 1993
Subject: Re: Early Nova Suspension Mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4890
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> > 	My son and I are about in the same situation as you. His is a
> > 63, but the spindles have been cut in half and rewelded together for the
> 
> Whoa, this sounds spooky, is there really a robust, reliable and safe
> way to do this spindle mod?

We've been running this setup for over two years, without any problems
(other than a real lousy ride), but that was with the 6-cyl. There was a
fair amount of welding done to get this to work. The fellow that did
this welding said he had done it numerous times before, again with no
problems.

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| What's the reward for a job well done?      Gary L. Berry |
|       No punishment.                         glb@s1.gov   |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Gary L. Berry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 06:41:25 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4891
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> >Both of those fans electric?  If so, get a real fan shroud and a clutch fan.
> 
>      I've been trying for 2 years to get one.   I couldn't cut down
> the 4-holer shroud, and the inline and V sixer motor shrouds don't
> fit.

Maybe it's time to go to a sheet metal shop and have a shroud built
or modified to fit...

[balance of post ommited...]

-- 
 "There's no such thing as fast enough!"  | Mark Walker
     (Or something to that effect...)     | mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu
                James Taylor              | 505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)
                _Two_Lane_Blacktop_       | Albuquerque, NM

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 06:47:11 1993
Subject: Radiator Shrouds
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4892
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> >Both of those fans electric?  If so, get a real fan shroud and a clutch fan.
>      I've been trying for 2 years to get one.   I couldn't cut down
> the 4-holer shroud, and the inline and V sixer motor shrouds don't
> fit.
>      Seems every junkyard I go to either breaks them, or they're
> missing when I get there.   Local Ford dealer doesn't even want to see
> me, unless I'm interested in the entire Motorsport catalogue of
> parts...

Ever considered laying one up out of glass?

-- 
Jon Lusky
lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu <<== preferred address
lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu

 79 Rx-7 12A/Holley 4bbl
 67 Camaro/350/4spd (under construction)
 89 Jeep Wrangler/258 (currently self destructing)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 06:52:30 1993
Subject: Re: rotary
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4893
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:

>  The local street racers who use rotaries tell me they use them because
>...
>If you want to build a rotary, E-mail me and tell you what you need.

This sounds interesting. Could you please send me more information.
Thanks.

Jay Monkman
j-monkman@uiuc.edu

----------
Posted by: Jay Monkman 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 06:58:05 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4894
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


  
              You can go to your local radiator shop and buy a new three
core for under $200, this is a standard issue cataloged part. If you
need a shroud you could pick up a new one at ford for a newer 5.0.
They are around $40 , pick a year say 88 5.0 mustang and get one. This
may not be the exact one but they run large plastic fans so an earlier
metal fan should fit no prob. If you do not have a freindly dealer
(i.e. lasy) ask to see the crash book. It is for collision work, they 
have all the pictures and part#'s you need. also you can get an idea
on price. The book is  not published by ford BTW I cant remember who.
                                              Good Luck....Tim

----------
Posted by: emory!ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu!HILLIARD (TIMOTHY A HILLIARD)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 13:24:50 1993
Subject: Re: Hitachi distributor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4895
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I have a friend with an engine that has a Hitachi LED type distributor.
> It also has a dual coil setup. The engine is out of the car and he'd
> like to be able to fire it up without hooking up the computer, etc. to 
> test for knocks, excessive smoke or other undesirable characteristics.
> 
> The distributor has four wires out: black/white, black, red and green.
> One of the coils has three wires in and the other four. Is there a 
> simple way to interconnect all three with 12V and a ground without
> frying everything?
> 
> If not, what's the going rate for boat anchors?
> 
> Vic Cook
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!sierra.com!vcook (Victor Cook)
>  
This is most likely the dual output distributor.  One set of LED's gives
Cylinder ID, the other gives crankshaft position (with a one degree
resolution).  This is simply an input to the computer.  It calculates
required advance and drives one or both coils as needed.

You will need a fair amount of wiring and the control computer to make it
spark.  Depending on year, the ECM drives the coils directly, or drives
a external transistors to switch the coil(s).  Don't try to play with the
distributor unless you know the connections.  The LED set is not
availiable separately, and the distributor is sky high to purchase.

----------
Posted by: emory!posms.aus.tx.us!rick (Rick Kirchhof)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 13:31:41 1993
Subject: Re: Early Nova Suspension Mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4896
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 I guess if you're desperate to get low, and can't find a supplier for
dropped spindles (actually raised; the car drops) then you'd have to cut
and weld. A very good welder who can restore the original metal properties,
as well as making the result match the original geometry (except for the
Z axis loc'n of the spindle) may be hard, though definitely worthwhile, to
find.

 Some of the suspension places sell aftermarket lowering spindles for a
variety of platforms; they are most likely to advertise in some of the
"street rod" mags (mondo custom chopit slamit chromeit) although they
occasionally have ads in CC/HR/PHR. I would suggest trying to get some
guidance from a technical person at the vendor and see if any of the
lowered setups also do anything for handling; some spindles are out for
basic behavior modification too.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 13:37:22 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4897
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu writes:

>     I've been trying for 2 years to get one.   I couldn't cut down
>the 4-holer shroud, and the inline and V sixer motor shrouds don't
>fit.
>     Seems every junkyard I go to either breaks them, or they're
>missing when I get there.   Local Ford dealer doesn't even want to see
>me, unless I'm interested in the entire Motorsport catalogue of
>parts...

>    Last summer, I bought one NEW for my '71 Olds, and it cost only
>like $35.   I can't even find a new one for the Mustang.   Anyone got
>_ANY_ sources for one?


Try Dugan Racing Enterprises in Georgia.  In their 1992-3 catalog
they list various model year (used) shrouds ranging in price from
$29-$49.  They also have a complete line of performance products,
inlcuding Motorsports items.  They'll even be able to sell you the
fan blade and clutch.

Dugan Racing Enterprises
1175-D Hwy. 23
Suwanee Georgia 30174
(404)932-5480



-Buck

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Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Bob.Cisneros (Bob Cisneros-Banzai Institute)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 13:45:40 1993
Subject: Electromotive DFI
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4898
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> -> All joking aside, Dave, why don't you adapt one of the GM knock
> -> controllers instead?  It at least has a chance of working.
> 
>  You *are* joking.  I have been looking for one in the junkyard for
> eight or nine months.  GM didn't make many of them.  My friendly Chevy
> dealer wants THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS for the box, weirdo ignition module,
> and sensor.  I ain't gonna pay it.

How bout using the sensor and conditioning module from a late model car,
and building a seperate box to handle retarding the timing (taking its
input from the conditioning module).

> Porsche club race at Road Atlanta two weeks ago.  I didn't get a chance
> to talk to him because I was too busy helping another fellow work
> out his Electromotive crank trigger problem (Jon, don't say a WORD!) 
> I'm going to see if I can get one of those to evaluage for the mag.]

Actually, I've been meaning to ask you about that.... I've had that old
HPV3 sitting on the shelf for a few years, and was thinking it'd really
be nice to get it working and use it on something (something = someone
else's car/project :).  WHat do I need to replace the stock trigger
with?

[ I'll trigger from almost anything.  I hooked mine up to my BMW using
the wiring diagram for the modules out of an old Chilton's manual.
The BMW has a conventional variable reluctance trigger for its electronic
ignition.  JGD]
                                    
> For drag racing power, I agree that a simple distributor advance curve 
> will do the job.  No concern with midrange power or economy.  For 
> street hotrod motors - my main interest - I DO care about the best possible
> midrange torque and the best possible mileage if for no other reason that
> I want to skip a gas station here and there.  Electronic timing control
> makes a remarkable difference in a street environment.  JGD]

No kidding!  As a data point, at 1000 rpm in our cng truck were running
25 degrees total advance at WOT, and 47 at hot idle (52 on cold idle,
and it would probably like a little more).

-- 
Jon Lusky
lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu <<== preferred address
lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu

 79 Rx-7 12A/Holley 4bbl
 67 Camaro/350/4spd (under construction)
 89 Jeep Wrangler/258 (currently self destructing)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 13:52:18 1993
Subject: Re: Manifold swap in 3rd generation Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4899
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you write:
>From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
>Subject: Manifold swap in 3rd generation Camaro
>Date: Wed, 07 Apr 93 19:38:22 GMT
>   I've got and 84 Berlinetta with the stock 305 4V, and I'm speculating 
>about replacing the stock manifold with an aftermarket dual-plane perf.
>manifold. Does anyone have any experience with the power increase acheived
>with this simple swap? ie. is it worth the money?
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU!VIPER

Well actually yes, but you may not be able to tell it just by driving the 
car.  You may actually gain only 5hp out of the swap, but you have paved the 
way to further mods if you like to in the future.  The only effective way I 
have found to tell a difference between before and after is to get an 
accurate time-to-distance of each setup.  Just like hipo computer chips in 
the newer cars, I have yet to ride or drive in one that I felt had a very 
noticeable change in it.  Yet it was actually much quicker as the clock 
ticks.  If you like to mod the car further, mail me.  I had experience 
turning a 1986 Firebird with a 2.8l V-6 into a real stormer (for a V-6 mind 
you).  It was bored, balanced, blue-printed with ported and polished heads.  
The car sported Hedmann headers with a Flow master exaust system.  Although 
it couldn't take a 5.7 TPI, it could give almost any stock 5.0 Z car a run.  
Any way, in the process of doing this, I learned an awful lot about what 
one can and can't do with these computer cars.  Good luck...Nemisys. 

----------
Posted by: emory!math.concord.wvnet.edu!muncys (SHANNON MUNCY)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 13:58:22 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4900
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The book is probably published by Mitchell here in San Diego.mgb

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Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 14:03:21 1993
Subject: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4901
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                          SUBJECT:  Blower Cams, etc.
I ran across an article in the newest Turbo magazine (May 1993) that was
written by David Vizard.  The article was extremely interesting (at least to
me, being a Turbo car owner).  I seem to remember a discussion recently about
his book and about blower cams and cam overlap.  Well here's a (hopefully)
brief summary of some of the major points he made in his article:

Intakes
=======
Recommends K&N filters (hmmmm...John has a different opinion )
Straight runs of plumbing recommended

Carbs & Charge Cooling
==================
Highly recommends port injection
Dry blower (if possible)
Holley throttle body injection is OK (Yech!)

Heads
======
Porting is important (contrary to the urban legend)
Spend alot of time on the exhaust ports to make up for being able to pack more
air into the intake port via boost

Valves
=======
Larger exhaust valves than normally aspirated
He lists a good ratio for a big bore SBC as 2.02 intake with 1.8 exhaust

Cams
=====
Opening the exhaust valve is good, but a band-aid for smaller exhaust valves
Blown motor makes power over more of the compression stroke
Early opening of the exhaust valve can cause wasted HP and eats away bottom end
Belt driven superchargers should have wider lobe separation ... wider the more
boost used
Turbo motors need cams designed with the difference in boost to exhaust back
pressure in mind... he says this is very poorly done by many manufacturers
Turbo motors, especially street driven, often like no overlap or even NEGATIVE
overlap(!)

Pistons
=========
Avoid open chamber heads for low compression, instead use small combustion
chambers and dished pistons
This maximizes quench quality and can mean up to 50 HP in a SBC over an open
chamber/flat top piston combo
Wider rings are recommended

Exhaust
===========
Backpressure can directly affect a turbo
Not as critical on a belt driven blower, but important

Ignition
=========
Some kind of computerized management system is recommended
High-Energy spark is a must

All in all, a very informative article ... It's on pages 60-69 in the May 1993
issue of Turbo magazine.  A good read!


-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  More *POWER*!  More *BOOST*!  Urrrrr! Urrrrr!

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 14:08:24 1993
Subject: Ford Fuel Injection Specs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4902
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 A friend of mine said that he saw a listing of Ford Fuel Injector             
 Specifications posted here.  I would really appreciate it if somebody who
 has this information could post it again.  Thank you very much.
   

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Posted by: emory!meibm5.cen.uiuc.edu!kh10516 (Kenneth E Hardman)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 16:21:37 1993
Subject: Is there a lockup torque converter available
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4903
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I have a 1979 F150 FORD Pickup.  I also have a 18 foot car trailer.  I
plan to do some long distance hauling this summer.  The truck currently
has a 9" 2.75 rear.  I am going to replace it with a 3.25 that I picked
up at a local salvage yard.  The motor is a 351M with a 2 barrel and has
dual exhaust with glass packs ( the best part ).  The transmission is a
C6.

      I plan to install the largest capacity transmission coller that I
   can find, so far about 18000lb gross.

Now the question: Is there a lockup style torque converter that I
install to gain back the rpm's that I lose with the higher ratio rear.
I know that I can buy an aftermarker OD that goes on in place of the
factory tailshaft and is electrically controlled ($ 1000 +).  Secondly,
seeing that if I find a converter I must take out the transmission,
should I have the local transmission person install a shift kit for
firmer shifts in the process.

   Thanks,
           Bill


                   <   )
 \==================   ==================/  This is all mine, no one else's.
  \================     ================/   Bill Poudrier  Maynard MA, 01754
                  /// \\\

----------
Posted by: emory!genrad.com!wdp (William D. Poudrier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 16:28:48 1993
Subject: Steering mods (Was: Early Nova Suspension Mods)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4904
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> > 
> > > 	My son and I are about in the same situation as you. His is a
> > > 63, but the spindles have been cut in half and rewelded together for the
> > 
> > Whoa, this sounds spooky, is there really a robust, reliable and safe
> > way to do this spindle mod?
> 
> We've been running this setup for over two years, without any problems
> (other than a real lousy ride), but that was with the 6-cyl. There was a
> fair amount of welding done to get this to work. The fellow that did
> this welding said he had done it numerous times before, again with no
> problems.

I'll be darned.  Maybe I'm just a wimp when it comes to steering mods.
Could you e-mail his name and phone number to me?  I'd be interested
in speaking with him about the required welding.

Does anyone know if there is a safe way to shorten (or lengthen for
that matter) the linkage rod that connects the pittman and idler arms?
(Can't think of the name of the rod at this moment to save my neck!)

-- 
 "There's no such thing as fast enough!"  | Mark Walker
     (Or something to that effect...)     | mwalker@houdini.eece.unm.edu
                James Taylor              | 505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)
                _Two_Lane_Blacktop_       | Albuquerque, NM

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 18:35:36 1993
Subject: Early Nova Suspension Mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4905
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Have you guys seen the ad in the April '93 Super Chevy from Fatman Fabrications?
They offer a:
BOLT ON (their emphasis) 62-67 Nova Coil-over Strut kit.
(I'll quote the whole ad)

Replace your troublesome Box nova front end with our '82 and up Camaro Strut
Kit. Struts are modified to use adjustable coil overs for up to a 3" drop. You
also gain disc brakes, rack&pinion steering and more room for a big block. No
more oil pan/steering hassles and lose 100 lbs. too! Bolts into mostly existing
holes for easy installation in finished cars. Kit includes all non-factory 
parts. ......$1495.00

I thought $1500 was kind of steep for brackets and such, so I called the Co. to
find out just what "non-factory"parts meant. They are mailing me a blurb and a
catalog. I'll summarize when I get the stuff.

BTW, in the same issue, in the "New Products" section, there is a small picture
of the setup. It looks like you supply the spindles, struts, rotors and 
calipers. Oh, and the steering rack. Again, $1500 sounds like alot of money for
brackets, but I'll save criticism until I see for myself.

(Boy, if that sucker was $500, they'd already have my check!!)

On the same note, how hard (easy) would it be to build a tube front sub-frame
for an early Nova, and stick an A-arm/disc brake setup on it? 

Later, Mike
 
********************************************************************************
*             |                     Mike Sheumaker
*            /O\                    University of Illinois
*  \_______[|(.)|]_______/          Computer and Communications Services Office
*    o   ++   O   ++   o            Campus Area Networking Group (In the CAN!)
*
* "You can shoot down all thi MiGs you want, but if you return to base and the 
*  lead Soviet tank commander is eating breakfast in your snack bar, Jack,
*  you've lost the war." (A-10 pilot's motto, Nellis AFB 1982) 
********************************************************************************

----------
Posted by: Mike Sheumaker 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 18:40:40 1993
Subject: Thought you might get a chuckle
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4906
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I recently started reading these automotive related news groups like
alt.hotrod and rec.autos*.  When I ran across something that I thought
my wife would be amused by, I'd tell her the story that evening just like
I had been doing with the newsgroups I read.  Well, for a couple of
months now thought one of the news groups was:

			Wreck.Autos.Tech

Now, I got a real belly laugh out of this but had to admit, given the
stuff I drive and the toys I play with, the misunderstanding was
understandable.

-- 
 My old man always said:		| Mark Walker
	"Too much is just right!"	| mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu
 Guess that applies to my preferences	| 505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)
 in performance cars.			| Albuquerque, NM

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 18:52:26 1993
Subject: Knock sensor signature analysis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4907
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The discussions about knock sensors got me to wondering what the signal
signature for these devices looks like.  Since I work in a EE
department big on DSP (Digital Signal Processing), I got to wondering
about the possibility of smart (well, smarter than the OEM and less
money than other existing solutions) use of the signal the
sensor provides.  Is this information readily available for these
sensors?  

[See "Automotive Electrical/Electronic Systems" from Bosch.  Page 133
has some good scope snapshots taken from their narrow band sensor.  I also
have some scopemeter screens stored away around here somewhere if you're
interested in GIF files. The OEMs will supply information on their
sensors if you find the right person.  I have some Bosch info here.]

Oh, it also seems like I saw an article somewhere that mentioned use
of a more common device (a microphone or something) as the sensor.
Ring a bell with anyone?

[There are three basic types of sensors in use.  The resonant sensor,
the narrow band sensor and the wide band sensor.  A resonant sensor is
tuned to the block's mechanical knock resonance and provides some 
mechanical selectivity.  Not commonly used because so many things can
change the block's resonant frequency.  Narrow band sensors are 
also resonant but with a much lower Q.  These are typical of OEM sensors.
Wideband sensors, also called accelerometers or microphones, are sometimes
used but the demand on signal processing is much greater.

Do I hear a volunteer to do a DSP knock controller?  :-)  JGD]

-- 
 "There's no such thing as fast enough!"  | Mark Walker
     (Or something to that effect...)     | mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu
                James Taylor              | 505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)
                _Two_Lane_Blacktop_       | Albuquerque, NM

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 18:58:46 1993
Subject: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4908
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Can anyone share experience switching from Goodyear Eagle STs (read:no traction)
to BF Goodrich TA radials?   I am considering BFG TA's as replacements and I 
would like to get better grip.  Will these make a noticeable difference?

Thanks,

Ericy

      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
      |                         \,  _}                              |
      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr  8 19:02:59 1993
Subject: Re: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4909
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Ken Mosher writes:

>I ran across an article in the newest Turbo magazine 

	I'd be interested in finding out more about this "Turbo Magazine".

	Any info would be appriciated.

	Pete

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 10:11:03 1993
Subject: Scales
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4910
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

reply-to: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)

-> Sorry for the net send on this one.
->
-> I am having trouble getting mail out to Dave Williams.
->
-> Dave, could you please send me your design for the scales you built.


 Dang.  I've had a couple of reports of trouble.  I think Chaos' gateway
software doesn't like return addresses with '%' characters in them.

 I'll answer here on the list since others might be interested.

 The scales are 5:1, made of 2x1 channel iron and 2x2 angle.  They look
like this:

-----------------------   1/4" 8x8 rocker plate with 1x1 angle rocker
          / \
                                                            ____
        __|| piece of 1x1 angle                            |    |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|                      2x1 channel                               |
------------------------------------------------------------------
--------                                                    | |
       |                                                    | |
       |  10" piece of 2x2                          adjustable bolt
       |                                            for scale height
                                                    adj.
       ^rocker point is HERE

 The scale rocks on the 10" angle.  Weld on the 1x1 piece to between the
pivot point and the bolt hole; try for about 150 pounds on the scale -
that's where they're most accurate.  The rocker plate is to keep the
tire from affecting the scale readings.  My rockers are just loose
plates, but you could make them pivot if you want.  My welder charged me
$60 to make up a set of 4, back about 8 years ago.

 My original design used 1-1/2 square tubing; the welder simplified it
to the channel and angle (it looks like a T-square from the top) and it
works just fine.
    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 10:19:50 1993
Subject: Ford block series question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4911
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> if the 289, 302, 352 is the "small block", and 352, 390, 427 is the
-> "big block", and 429, 460 is another "big block" series. Where does
-> the 428 belong?

 There is no 352 small block.

 Ford makes several different series of engines, the better to confuse
you with.  

Windsor:  221, 260, 289, 302, 351W, 351K, 255
        the 351K is a 351W with 302 heads; the intake manifold and heads
        are different.  Definitely low performance.  The 255 is Ford's
        copy of the Pontiac 301 - hollow crankshaft and all.  Run away!
        Run away!


Cleveland: 351C-4V, 351V-2V, 351M, 400       (Ford also calls these
        the "385 Series" motors)
        The 2v and 4v Clevelands actually have different cylinder heads;
        not just a different intake manifold.  The 351M and 400 are of
        the Cleveland family, though the interchangeability ain't much.
        All 351M and 400 motors are of the "2V" type.  In Australia
        there was also a 302 Cleveland, a destroked 351.


BOSS 302:   302
        This is a 302 Windsor with a pair of 4V Cleveland heads.  It
        is officially listed as a Cleveland motor, but only the heads
        and intake interchange with the Cleveland family, everything
        else is Windsor.  The 351X I and others have mentioned, using
        400 heads on a 351W block, would have been related to the BOSS
        302, except Ford never actually built a 351X, so we hot rodders
        had to do it.


FE:  332, 352, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428, also 360, 361 and 391 truck, and
     some other odd sizes

        These are the old-style big blocks.  They use a "Y" block with
        the main caps recessed deeply into the block, like a Buick V6.
        The cylinder heads are very small, with about 1/4 of the "head"
        actually being part of the intake manifold, which is enormous.
        The valve cover sits over BOTH the head and a ridge on the
        intake, like a 2.8 Chevy V6.  For a while, Ford offered a
        Single Overhead Cam "crate motor" back in the sixties - the
        fabled Cammer 427.  Shelby actually delivered a few Cobras
        with overhead-cam 427s.


"335 Series": 429, 460, 370 truck

        These are big blocks.  You might think of them as big block
        Clevelands - they are very similar to the Clevelands.  The
        429 and Cleveland heads are fair copies of the big block
        Chevy head.  The BOSS 429 used a different head with wider
        valve angles, and huge cast magnesium valve covers even
        larger than those on the Mopar Hemi.  There was also a race-
        only 490-inch BOSS.


462:    Lincoln

        There was another size in this series (412?) but you seldom
        see them.  They were Lincoln's copy of the 409 Chevy, with
        the top of the block sawed off at an angle and a flat face
        head.  They were pretty sad, and are mostly forgotten.


 There are also the new SOHC and DOHC V8s, but I know little about them.
                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 10:28:50 1993
Subject: Re:  Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4912
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [Whot, did Slick Willie take all the good junk yards with him when he
-> left? :-)  First little podunk 10 acre junkyard I walked into had
-> exactly what I wanted.  ]

 We don't have junkyards around here.  They all got together and formed
a union, or something.  75% of dealer list price, take it or leave it.
I try to find what I need at the scrap iron places first, but they
usually don't have much.


-> I want to skip a gas station here and there.  Electronic timing
-> control makes a remarkable difference in a street environment.  JGD]

I don't want to sound like a broken record here, but who makes one of
these miracle boxes that'll work with my non-computer engine?  All I
need is a damned knock sensor; most of these places either sell boxes
that plug into your existing (or non-existing, in my case) EEC-IV or TPI
unit, or complete crank-trigger, coilless wonderjobbies that cost almost
as much as a whole motor.  

[maybe I won't sound like a broken record either.  J&S's Digital
Safeguard box can be triggered from most anything that can fire a coil.
>From the cover letter on their literature package:


	Dear Sirs:

	Thank you for your interest in the Digital SafeGuard.  We have included
	all available information, including our dealer pricing

	The enclosed four page brochure on the SafeGuard was written for our
	earlier analog unit, which did not have the rev limiter or built-in
	magnetic pick-up adapter.  It does, however, give a good idea of a basic
	knock control system, so we have included it in the package.

	With the new system, you can set an aggresive timing curve, then let the
	SafeGuard fine tune it for maximum power in each cylinder, under all
	conditions, such as boost pressure, nitrous oxide injection, varying
	octane, altitude, humidity, intercooler efficiency, etc.

	The system is capable of retarding the knocking cylinder up to 6 degree
	before it comes around to fire again.  Total retard capability is 20
	degrees, in steps as small as 2 degrees.

	Blown engines without intercooles encunter pre-ignition, which is not
	the same as detonation.  This can trick the computer into retarding the
	wrong cylinder.  In this case, a user programmable switch can be set to
	retard all cylinders by the same amount.

	An easily set digital rev control is also included.  At the selected
	limit, program control allows two cylinders to fire, then skip one, fire
	two more, skip another, etc.  For six cylinder engines, the program
	fires three and skips two.  This rotates the misfiring cylinders
	throughout the firing order, and allows a large drop in power without
	stumbling or backfiring.  Note that this is not a hard limit, but about
	a one third drop in power.  We use it more as a "shift alert", as it
	gently reminds the driver to get his foot off the throttle.

	The unit also features a built in high energy coil driver, delivering at
	least seven amps of coil current to a high energy coil.  This compares
	to five and a half amps in the GM HEI.  No ballast resistor is required,
	simplifying the installation.

	The unit can be triggered from points, OEM electronic, or directly from
	magnetic pick-up.

	Sincerely,
	John and Shirley
	J&S Electronics

I should note that I've never personally evaluated this unit.  However,
everyone I've talked to says it works as advertised.  Retail on this
box is $450.  Kinda high but compared to say, an MSD box, rev limiter
and "timing computer" or boost retard, it's not bad.  

The GM unit is another system that will trigger from any kind of
variable reluctor distributor.  It will probably trigger from points if
you really insist.  There's one of the largest junk yards (Longs) in the
south just this side of Nashville on I-24 so I know you're within, what,
maybe 3 hours of a source.

Sorry, I just can't come up with a source of free units. But the available
units can be had for prices that are quite in line with other high 
performance parts.  JGD]


----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 10:37:36 1993
Subject: Re: Stalling in a '79 Mustang UPDATE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4913
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->   Last summer, I bought one NEW for my '71 Olds, and it cost only
-> like $35.   I can't even find a new one for the Mustang.   Anyone got
-> _ANY_ sources for one?

 In a related vein, some of the '60s large Olds used a very neat fan
shroud.  The used a 4 or 5 inch steel ring, like a section cut out of a
55 gallon drum, bolted to the engine block with assorted bracketry.  The
radiator had about a 1" sheet metal lip all the way around, and the
"shroud" was canvas.  Since the rear opening didn't move in relation to
the engine, the fit between the fan and the duct could be very tight for
high efficiency.  It probably wasn't worth the extra effort since Olds
went back to fiberglass shrouds later.

 For an engine swap or oddball that needs a shroud, this is *the* way to
go!  And since it collapses when unbolted, it's easy to remove and
reinstall for servicing the front of the engine.  I get tired of having
to unbolt the shroud, then unbolt the fan, then remove the shroud and
fan together...
                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 10:51:41 1993
Subject: Re: Steering mods (Was: Early Nova Suspension Mods)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4914
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I'll be darned.  Maybe I'm just a wimp when it comes to steering mods.
> Could you e-mail his name and phone number to me?  I'd be interested
> in speaking with him about the required welding.
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a safe way to shorten (or lengthen for
> that matter) the linkage rod that connects the pittman and idler arms?
> (Can't think of the name of the rod at this moment to save my neck!)
> 
> -- 
 Mark Walker
> 
Hey Mark;

	His name is Chuck, and he is the owner of The Chop Shop in
Lakeport California. I've never had to call him, so I don't have his
number. I also don't remember his last name, but like I said, he's the
owner and main worker there. His specialty is chopping 50's style mercs,
and putting BIG blocks in them. Beautiful work, and at the end of the
day he loves sitting around drinking beer and bench racing...

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| "You'll never find a more wretched hive     Gary L. Berry |
|  of scum and villany"                        glb@s1.gov   |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Gary L. Berry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 11:03:06 1993
Subject: Re: Early Nova Suspension Mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4915
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> > 63, but the spindles have been cut in half and rewelded together

> Whoa, this sounds spooky, is there really a robust, reliable and safe
> way to do this spindle mod?

 Well, considering some of the old Can-Am and Formula cars used to weld
up front spindles from sheet metal and tubing, the basic idea ain't that
bad.  If it has proven reliable in service, then there's no problem.

 It's not something I'd try on my own, but why argue with success?
                                                                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 11:10:13 1993
Subject: Spring settle
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4916
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I just dropped the motor in my car (70' fastback).  The front end
-> didn't go down as much as I wanted and now it is higher than the
-> back.  I heard that it takes a little while for the springs to
-> settle.  How long would yall figure, and how much will the settle?

 I assume you're talking about a Mustang?  Unless you have a BOSS, which
had shorter front springs, the car is *supposed* to look like it is
going uphill.  Take a look at some of Ford's old promotional literature
- all the Mustangs looked like the rear springs were collapsed.

 If it settles at all, your springs are bad.  To get the ride height you
want, you'll probably have to reach in with a torch and lop off a coil.
        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 11:17:42 1993
Subject: Re:  Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4917
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> _Jesus_, John, dont get him started on that again! :>
-> It's bad enough having to read it in the papers. :<

 Hey, that "Self-Control in 10 Easy Lessons or a Bullet Through The
Head" course REALLY DID work.  I dinna say nothin'.
                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 11:23:02 1993
Subject: Manifold swap in 3rd generation Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4918
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I've got and 84 Berlinetta with the stock 305 4V, and I'm speculating
-> about replacing the stock manifold with an aftermarket dual-plane
-> perf. manifold. Does anyone have any experience with the power
-> increase acheived with this simple swap? ie. is it worth the money?

 The stock Chevy spreadbore intake is VERY VERY GOOD up to about 4500
RPM on a 350; it's good for more than that on a 305, particularly a
stock 305.  I seriously doubt you can find an intake that would make
any noticeable difference in power; only an Offenhauser Dual Port will
do anything for economy, and you'd probably lose some low-RPM
flexibility with the Offy.

 Unless you just want the manifold for looks, you'd be better off
putting your money somewhere else.
                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 11:27:24 1993
Subject: Electromotive DFI
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4919
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> > dealer wants THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS for the box, weirdo ignition
-> module, > and sensor.  I ain't gonna pay it.
>
> How bout using the sensor and conditioning module from a late model
> car, and building a seperate box to handle retarding the timing
> (taking its input from the conditioning module).

 Nope.  The system John and I are talking about is the weirdo "Computer
Controlled Spark" from the early '80s, which appeared on assorted
pickups and a random sampling of cars.  It's a plain old non-computer
HEI with a knock sensor box and sensor.  The box is like $160, the
special HEI module is $90, and the knock sensor another $100, though you
could probably use any knock sensor.  John can evidently waltz into his
friendly junkyard and get them for peanuts.  The only way I can get one
is to steal it off a parked car.

[ Actually I thought the junk yard situation here in Atlanta was pretty
dismal.  Bill Southern's little yard is nice and he's a rodder to boot
but it's small and it is only one yard.  Where I came from (Cleveland,
TN, Odometer rollback capital of the US), there's a 100 acre junkyard on
every major highway.  There's also something like 300 licensed used car
dealers in this little 20,000 population berg.

So guys.  What IS the junkyard situation elsewhere besides Atlanta and 
Little Rock?

I've not priced the box but the 5 wire HEI module is about $30 
from NAPA and the knock sensor is $12.  No fair quoting dealer
prices. No one pays that much..... Do they?  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 11:33:30 1993
Subject: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4920
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Valves
-> =======
-> Larger exhaust valves than normally aspirated
-> He lists a good ratio for a big bore SBC as 2.02 intake with 1.8
-> exhaust

 ARRK!  How ya gonna get a 1.8 exhaust in a Chevy chamber without moving
the valve guide over?  You'd also be VERY close to the cylinder wall.
                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 11:39:33 1993
Subject: Re: Electromotive DFI
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4921
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Actually, I've been meaning to ask you about that.... I've had that old
> HPV3 sitting on the shelf for a few years, and was thinking it'd really
> be nice to get it working and use it on something (something = someone
> else's car/project :).  WHat do I need to replace the stock trigger
> with?
> 
> [ I'll trigger from almost anything.  I hooked mine up to my BMW using
> the wiring diagram for the modules out of an old Chilton's manual.
> The BMW has a conventional variable reluctance trigger for its electronic
> ignition.  JGD]

How did you adapt that to the 60 tooth (or 120 if cam driven) wheel?

[Damn, Jon.  I just noticed what you wrote.  I thought you were talking
about the box used on 84 GMC SUVs and used a standard HEI distributor
with a 5 wire module and an outboard electronics box.  Sorry.  I'll
look up the number of the Hall Effect device I use.  It's a Microswitch
part, I think.  JGD]

-- 
Jon Lusky
lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu <<== preferred address
lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu

 79 Rx-7 12A/Holley 4bbl
 67 Camaro/350/4spd (under construction)
 89 Jeep Wrangler/258 (currently self destructing)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 11:44:50 1993
Subject: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4922
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

whats the word on putting a 400 Small block into an early '70s Nova
that is say 70 to 72


Engine mounts?
space?

John

----------
Posted by: John Wilentz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 11:50:04 1993
Subject: Re: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4923
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> Can anyone share experience switching from Goodyear Eagle STs (read:no traction)
> to BF Goodrich TA radials?   I am considering BFG TA's as replacements and I 
> would like to get better grip.  Will these make a noticeable difference?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ericy
> 
In my van years, I used a lot of the BFG TA's, mostly the 50 series. I
really liked the way they handled, but they just didn't last very long.
I could only get about 20k worth of life out of them. They also weren't
steel belted back then (70's), and I don't know if they are now. They
look great. So, maybe there is a trade off between traction and
longevity (hardness/softness verses traction verses wear).

-- 
 -----------------------------------------------------------
| "You'll never find a more wretched hive     Gary L. Berry |
|  of scum and villany"                        glb@s1.gov   |
 -----------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Gary L. Berry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 13:36:24 1993
Subject: Re: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4924
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>>Blower Cams, etc.
Ken Mosher writes:

>I ran across an article in the newest Turbo magazine 

	I'd be interested in finding out more about this "Turbo Magazine".

	Any info would be appriciated.

	Pete

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)...]

The magazine is published bimonthly:

Turbo & Hi-Tech Performance
Mag-Tec Productions Inc.
9952 Hamilton Ave.
Huntington Beach, CA 92646

(714) 962-7795
24 Hr. Fax (714) 965-2268

They cover all sorts of supercharged/turbocharged vehicles and have alot of
articles about fuel injection and engine management systems.  The technical
content varies ... sometimes very detailed, other times glossy and fluffy. 
Overall, I like the magazine ....

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... 3600 pounds of blown Buick V6 ... scary, scaaarrry! ..."
 





----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 13:45:04 1993
Subject: Re: Ford block series question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4925
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

actually the 352 was made up until 1968? I beleive.
Back home my next door neighbor has one in their 1968 Ford Galaxie.
says right on the air cleaner "352"
then i read somwhere else that that was the lasst your for that engine.
So to sum up Ford made a 352
and I think 68 wa the last year for it


John

----------
Posted by: John Wilentz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 13:51:42 1993
Subject: Re: Knock sensor signature analysis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4926
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> The discussions about knock sensors got me to wondering what the signal
> signature for these devices looks like.  Since I work in an EE
...

> [See "Automotive Electrical/Electronic Systems" from Bosch.  Page 133
> has some good scope snapshots taken from their narrow band sensor.  I also

Thanks for the lead John,  I've already been on the phone trying to
track down a local source for the publication.

> have some scopemeter screens stored away around here somewhere if you're
> interested in GIF files. The OEMs will supply information on their
> sensors if you find the right person.  I have some Bosch info here.]

I may be interested in the GIFs depending on what I find.  It's true
about finding the right OEM personnel, I had some great luck with Delco
in the mid-70's on a problem with the CD ignition system for a 442.  I
do wish there was an easier way to get service bulletins and the like
out of the manufacturers though.

> Oh, it also seems like I saw an article somewhere that mentioned use
> of a more common device (a microphone or something) as the sensor.
> Ring a bell with anyone?
> 
> [There are three basic types of sensors in use.  The resonant sensor,
> the narrow band sensor and the wide band sensor.  A resonant sensor is
> tuned to the block's mechanical knock resonance and provides some
> mechanical selectivity.  Not commonly used because so many things can
> change the block's resonant frequency.  Narrow band sensors are also
> resonant but with a much lower Q.  These are typical of OEM sensors.
> Wideband sensors, also called accelerometers or microphones, are
> sometimes used but the demand on signal processing is much greater.

Thanks for the overview.  Seems like there ought be some potential
benefits of doing the additional signal processing though...

> Do I hear a volunteer to do a DSP knock controller?  :-)  JGD]

Well..., kinda.  I think it would be real interesting to do this, and
it fits in with my current hotrodding interests (more power, economy
and breathable air via electronics) and work environment.  Only problem
is, there's a new baby on the way in 7 to 10 weeks, and I'll bet it's
going to be awhile before I do much hotrodding at all.  In any case, I
am collecting data, and keeping it in mind (would love to be published
in PEm, don't ya know!).

-- 
Mark Walker			| My old man always said:
mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu	|	"Too much is just right!"
505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)	| Guess that applies to my preferences
Albuquerque, NM			| in performance cars.

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 13:57:47 1993
Subject: Re: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4927
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>Blower Cams, etc.

-> Valves
-> =======
-> Larger exhaust valves than normally aspirated
-> He lists a good ratio for a big bore SBC as 2.02 intake with 1.8
-> exhaust

[... ARRK!  How ya gonna get a 1.8 exhaust in a Chevy chamber without moving
the valve guide over?  You'd also be VERY close to the cylinder wall....
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)]

That's what *HE* (David Vizard) said ... to quote the article:

"In the case of the Chevy small-block for instance, Brodix and other
manufacturers can supply a special casting which can be ported and machined for
a 1.7 to 1.8 inch exhaust valve, as opposed tot he normally used 1.6 inches."

He also states that "In most cases this does mean a sacrifice of intake
size"..... except in the case of Brodix heads on a big-bore Chevy, where you
can make a 2.02 intake fit.

Since I was giving the reader's digest version, I probably over simplified all
this in my summary.  The point I was trying to extract was that the ratio of
intake to exhaust is considerably different in a forced induction motor than a
normally aspirated motor.  Sorry about that!

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... 3600 pounds of blown Buick V6 ... scary, scaaaarrry!..." 





----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 14:04:24 1993
Subject: Re: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4928
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 > 
> 
> Can anyone share experience switching from Goodyear Eagle STs (read:no traction)
> to BF Goodrich TA radials?   I am considering BFG TA's as replacements and I 
> would like to get better grip.  Will these make a noticeable difference?

Well I made the switch several years back on a Chevy van.  Took of a set
of 275/70R15 Eagles and put on the Goodrich equivalents.  I did not notice
any traction diference however on a van I didn't to any 100+ mph slalon
courses either.  What I did notice was a difference in tire wear.  With the
Goodyears I got 60,000 mile on a set of 4 and with the Goodrich tires I
couldnt even squeeze 40,000 on a set.

dennis 
 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 14:08:50 1993
Subject: Early Nova Suspension Mods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4929
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Replace your troublesome Box nova front end with our '82 and up
-> Camaro Strut Kit. Struts are modified to use adjustable coil overs
-> for up to a 3" drop. You also gain disc brakes, rack&pinion steering
-> and more room for a big block. No more oil pan/steering hassles and
-> lose 100 lbs. too! Bolts into mostly existing holes for easy
-> installation in finished cars. Kit includes all non-factory parts.
-> ......$1495.00

 That's the same basic idea I had when I decided to convert a Falcon to
Mustang struts.  However, a no-cutting, bolt-in strut conversion ain't
gonna get you anywhere - in fact, the new, longer steering shaft to the
rack and pinion will probably get in the way of any existing headers.
As for the 100 pound thing - strut front ends are generally heavier than
A-arm rigs to begin with, but I strongly doubt the whole thing weighs
100 pounds to start with, not counting brakes.  The *only* thing you'd
gain other than the discs would be the ability to run a conventional
Chevy rear sump pan instead of the Chevy II pan, but Moroso, Champ, or
practically anyone will be happy to sell you any kind of Chevy II pan
you want.

 Struts have geometry problems that can be easily avoided by A-arms.
The *only* reason I'm even considering the Ford conversion is because it
will take moderately serious torch work to get the 351 in there anyway,
and I'd rather go to struts than build a new upper A-arm mount,
fabricate a two or three inch shorter A-arm, and live with some truly
sucko camber change.  Considering the range of possible geometries with
such a short arm, in this particular application the strut is a better
deal.

 Besides, the Chevy II will take a big block without cutting.  You can
buy headers and oil pans for the swap.  There's absolutely nothing at
all wrong with the front end design, and a set of early Camaro disc
brake spindles will give you discs if you wish.  Maybe I'm missing the
point here, but my main reaction is "why?"
                                                                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 14:15:21 1993
Subject: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4930
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Can anyone share experience switching from Goodyear Eagle STs
-> (read:no traction to BF Goodrich TA radials?   I am considering BFG
-> TA's as replacements and I would like to get better grip.  Will these
-> make a noticeable difference?

 Unless they've changed a whole lot in the last five or six years, the
T/A Radials are bottom-rung rubber.  That is, good tread life, so-so
traction.

 If you want something that sticks to the road like chewing gum on a
shoe, you need to check out Hoosier in the Vendor List.  Hoosier makes
tires with rubber so soft they pick up sand, loose change, cigarette
butts, or small animals.  They look like giant frosted donuts when you
drive around the pits.  
                                                                                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 14:31:17 1993
Subject: Re: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4931
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->      I'd be interested in finding out more about this "Turbo
-> Magazine".

 Turbo is sort of like a high tech National Enquirer for cars.  It has
pretensions for high-tech automobilia, but its editors apparently know
relatively little about cars, though I'm sure their journalistic
credentials are impeccable.  They specialize in "advertorials", that
is, self-serving articles written by advertisers, nerd car road tests,
hype, and "technical" articles that are often so amazingly full of
excrement it's a wonder the magazine doesn't come in a plastic bag.  On
rare occasions there'll be something interesting in there, but it's
usually just a teaser, or what looks like half of an article.  Turbo
appears to be written for "enthusiasts" who pay other people to work on
their cars, as opposed to the greasy-knuckle types who will eventually
be reading Performance Engineering.  A mass gag reaction to Turbo is one
reason John finally started making PE a reality.

[This is true.  I hate to say anything about an direct competitor in this
forum :-)  The advectorials are kinda handy as a vector to people who
can be pumped for information, which is why I still subscribe.  Oh, Dave,
don't forget the Turbo club.  For a few extra sheckles, the subscriber
gets to join this "club".  It gets you a cap and a "newsletter" full of
only slightly more technical advectorials.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 15:30:34 1993
Subject: Re: Scales
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4932
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


On 9 Apr 93 00:30, hotrod wrote:

>-----------------------   1/4" 8x8 rocker plate with 1x1 angle rocker
>          / \
>                                                            ____
>        __|| piece of 1x1 angle                            |    |
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>|                      2x1 channel                               |
>------------------------------------------------------------------
>--------                                                    | |
>       |                                                    | |
>       |  10" piece of 2x2                          adjustable bolt
>       |                                            for scale height
>                                                    adj.
>       ^rocker point is HERE

How do you drive your car onto these without pushing off (or rocking
off) the rocker plates?

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 16:38:29 1993
Subject: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4933
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I think Comp T/As give the best bang for the buck in high-po tires.
I've had comparable results between Comp T/As and the OEM Gatorbacks on
my Mustang -- but the Comps were about 30% cheaper.  The Comps seemed to
get slightly fewer miles than the Gatorbacks, but that may have been due
to the track time I put on them.  And you can't complain about the
price!  Check the Tire Rack ads in _Car_and_Driver_ for an example.

The only real disadvantage to the old-style (2nd generation) Comps is
that they squealed under heavy cornering.  They felt pretty good on the
track, although not quite as confidence-inspiring at the limit as a
fully warmed up set of Gatorbacks.  I haven't yet leaned hard enough on
my brand-new 3rd generation Comps to find out how they compare.

The Eagle GT and T/A (as opposed to the Comp T/A) seem to be aimed at
the "not-ready-for-real-performance-tires" market.  I have no use for
such tires on a serious performance machine.

 -- Chuck Fry, wearing out a tiring topic
--
     Chuck Fry  chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov  chucko@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov
   Join the Silicon Valley protest against 55 MPH!  Email me for details.
	    I alone bear responsibility for the claptrap above.

----------
Posted by: Chuck Fry 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 19:17:02 1993
Subject: Re: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4934
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>>Blower Cams, etc.
[...  so amazingly full of excrement it's a wonder the magazine doesn't come in
a plastic bag....]

So what do you REALLY think Dave? <*GRIN*>  BTW, it does come in a paper bag
..... draw your own conclusions :^)

[... Turbo appears to be written for "enthusiasts" who pay other people to work
on their cars, as opposed to the greasy-knuckle types who will eventually be
reading Performance Engineering....]

Well, I find that occaisonally the mag has some good things in it regarding the
GNs ... mostly "newsy" stuff about events, which is my main reason for
subscribing.  It also has LOTS of ads for turbo supply places, so I can do some
"phone shopping" for different bits and pieces.

However, I consider myself the  "greasy-knuckle type" (much to my wife's
dismay!), but sometimes a little light fluff can be entertaining ... and once
in awhile there is actually some technical data thrown in for good measure.  I
feel that, in general, Dave's statement as to the content of the mag is pretty
accurate, but *I'd* like to separate myself from that sort of characterization!

So ANYWAY, I'm also a subscriber to PE, and plan to pour over every issue in
detail ... but until I start seeing PE in my mail box, I have to be content
with what I can get ahold of.

If I have to read YET ANOTHER small block Chevy build up in one of the Car
Craft/Hot Rod/Popular Hot Rodding mags, I'll SCREAM!  Or see a bunch of
posturing "ProStreet" cars that have "estimated E.T.s" ....

At least Turbo has a few tidbits that pertain to my turbo car ... and nobody
really covers the ol' big block Buicks <*sigh*>.  ... See what ya did Dave?  Ya
made me defend a mag I didn't even particularly LIKE!!  <*GRIN*>

[... For a few extra sheckles, the subscriber gets to join this "club".  It
gets you a cap and a "newsletter" full of only slightly more technical
advectorials.  JGD]

BWAHAHAHAH HAHAHA!  As Al Borland would say "I don't think so Tim."
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)]

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: Hairdryers and Horsepower!
 





----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 19:22:34 1993
Subject: Connecting MSD to my car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4935
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I want to get a MSD 6AL ignition. But I wanted to
know if anybody had any experience hooking one up.

The current system is what I think they call a Breakerless Induction?

It's has a  magnetic wheel in the distributor instead of points.

Does the MSD just replace the current control box, thanks for
any input.

[yep.  Painless installation.  JGD]

-- 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
romansks@unvax.union.edu  |  
                          |  
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: Steve Romanski 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 19:28:41 1993
Subject: Re:  Ford Fuel Injection Specs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4936
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>> A friend of mine said that he saw a listing of Ford Fuel Injector            
>> Specifications posted here.  I would really appreciate it if somebody who
>> has this information could post it again.  Thank you very much.
   

I happened to save these when they were posted, hope it's what you're looking
for...  (Both were originally posted by Dan Malek )

=====================================

Since John asked, here is my current list of stock fuel injectors from Ford.
I only work with Ford stuff because I used to work there, and I can't keep up
with these details for every manufacturer (I wish I could).  Explanation and
further information follows the table.


Flow      PSI  Resist  Mfg.  Part     Color  Application

1.76 (14)  ??    2.25 Bosch  E3EE-BA  Blue   1983 1.6L
1.76 (14)  ??    2.35 ND     E4EE-AA  Blue   1984 1.6L
1.76 (14)  30   16.20 ND     E59E-AB  Gray   1985-6 2.3L Truck, 5.0L SEFI
1.76 (14)  33   14.50 Bosch  E67C-AB  Gray   1986 2.9L, 3.0L
1.76 (14)  33   14.50 Bosch  E67E-BB  Gray   1986 5.0L SEFI
2.45 (19)  40    2.25 Bosch  E6EE-AB  White  1985-6 1.9L
2.45 (19)  32   16.20 ND     E6TE-AB  Gold   1986 5.0L HO SEFI
2.45 (19)  33   16.20 DKK    E5TE-AB  Gold   1985-6 5.0L Truck
2.45 (19)  33   14.50 Bosch  E5TE-BB  Gold   1986 5.0L Truck
3.00 (23)  ??    2.40 Bosch  E4EX-AA  Black  1984-5 1.6L Turbo
3.86 (30)  35-45 2.40 Bosch  E3ZE-BA  Green  1983 2.3L Turbo
3.86 (30)  35-45 2.35 DKK    E4ZE-AA  Green  1984 2.3L Turbo
4.41 (35)  35-45 2.35 DKK    E5ZE-AB  Gold   1985-6 2.3L Turbo
4.54 (37)  40    2.25 Bosch  E3VE-A1A Green  1984-6 3.8L CFI
4.54 (37)  40    2.0  ND     E3VE-A2A Green  1984-6 3.8L CFI
5.81 (46)  33    2.40 Bosch  EOSE-A1A Blue   1980-3 5.0L CFI
5.81 (46)  33    2.00 ND     EOSE-A2A Blue   1983-4 5.0L CFI
5.81 (46)  33    2.25 Bosch  EOSE-A1A Blue   1984 5.0L CFI
6.60 (52)  32    2.25 Bosch  E4ZE-CA  Gray   1984-5 5.0L HO CFI
7.00 (56)  16    1.40 Bosch  E43E-AC  Blue   1985-6 2.3L HSC
8.00 (64)  16    1.40 Bosch  E53E-AB  Green  1985-6 2.3L HO HSC, 2.5L HSC

The flow rate is gm/sec and lb/hr in parenthesis.  The resistance is obvious.
The manufacturer is next, I think ND is Nippondeso (sp?), I can't place DKK.
The part number is constructed as follows.  All injectors carry a basic part
number 9F593, which is prefixed with a production release, and followed by
a revision/application code.  For example E3EE-BA from the table will be
E3EE-9F593-BA to your local dealer.  The tops of the injectors are color
coded, as a quick check to the technician to make sure an engine contains the
"same" injectors.  I included some sample applications which may help the
dealer if you are buying new, or yourself if scrounging in a junk yard.
I don't know at what pressure the flow rate was measured.  The value in the
table is listed as the operating pressure for the engine.  The turbo engines
use a regulator that increases pressure as the boost increases, hence the
multiple values in the table (I assmume the flow is at the lower pressure).
I don't know what was used for the density of the fuel.  I typically use
0.79 (rounded up to 0.8 for "quickie" calculations), and I have seen John
use 0.775 for "racing" fuel.  From this you could probably come close to
a ml/min value.

The last two big injectors on the list are classified as "low pressure"
in the manual.  Since these are on engines I have never seen, nor have a
manual for, I don't know what they look like.  These engines are used in
the Tempo, and I am guessing that they may use a single central injector.

I am expecting a 1993 electronics manual for my new Explorer I recently
purchased (I really need more garage now :-), which will contain a new
table.  When it arrives (week or so), I will update and re-post this table.


=====================================


also:
 
=====================================



I promised an injector update when I got my new shop manuals.  Well, I got
them, and here is the info:

Flow   Part      Color          Application
14     F1ZE-B4C  Gray           1.9 - 3.8L
19     FOTE-D1A  Yellow/Orange  4.6L SOHC
24     F2LE-B2A  Lt. Blue       4.6L DOHC
25.3   F3DE-A2B  Blue/Green     3.0L Flex Fuel
30     F1SE-E1A  Red            3.8L SC

Flow is lb./hr. for gasoline (I don't know how the flex fuel was measured).
All have impedance of 11-18 Ohms.  The basic part number is 9F593, so a
complete part number would be F1ZE-9F593-B4C.

These are the newest injectors.  The 5.0L/5.8L/7.0L/7.5L V-8 use "older"
part number 19 and 24 lb./hr. injectors.

Now here is the interesting part.  These injectors are described as 
"Deposit Resistant, Top Feed Stage III".  The further description and
cut away diagrams show an injector with multiple plungers and the following
words (from memory):  Fuel metering controlled by adjustable top plunger,
lower pintle and orifice designed to control injection timing, spray pattern,
and minimze deposits.

I just love words like "adjustable".  Wouldn't it be cool if these were
all the same injector, adjusted differently.  I think I need to purchase
a few and take them apart, just to see how adjustable they really are.  Or
is this the way injectors are designed and I just was not aware of this
information?


From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr  9 19:35:45 1993
Subject: Fuel injector testing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4937
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

One of my projects is to amass mfr's specifications and actual performance
data on as many types of fuel injectors as possible.  To that end, I offer
the following free service to anyone who desires to take advantage of it.

If you send me:

*	An injector or set of injectors.
*	The make and model of the vehicle and engine the injector came from.
*	The car mfr's P/N for the injector if known.
*	The mfr's redline recommendation for the engine if known.
*	A 3.5" floppy disk.
*	Sufficient funds for return shipment to you.
*	Your *address*  **IMPORTANT**

I will run them through the injector test suite, a subset of SAE J1832,
as described in the article in the upcoming issue of PE magazine.  I
will also ultrasonically clean and flush them.  In return you will
receive 

* 	the injectors back. 
*	a hard copy report on each injector's characteristics, including actual 
	static and dynamic flow and electrical characteristics; 
*	the output file generated by the fuel injection flow bench software.  

In other words, you get your injectors cleaned and characterized at no cost to 
you other than shipping.

You may ship the injectors to:

John De Armond C/O Performance Engineering Magazine
1555 Whitlock Road
Marietta, GA 30066
404 578 9547

Please contact me before shipping for any last minute details.

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 09:06:30 1993
Subject: Re: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4938
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 9, 15:38, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Time to get a grip (tires)
>
> The only real disadvantage to the old-style (2nd generation) Comps is
> that they squealed under heavy cornering.  They felt pretty good on the
> track, although not quite as confidence-inspiring at the limit as a
> fully warmed up set of Gatorbacks.  I haven't yet leaned hard enough on
> my brand-new 3rd generation Comps to find out how they compare.
>

For track use, if the (street-type) tires aren't squealing under
cornering, then you are not going fast enough.  I include the soft
racing versions of the street radials in that statement.  The softer
compounds _do_ squeal more quietly than the harder street compounds.
Racing slicks squeal a little when they are new.  Otherwise, its hard
to get a good squeal unless the track is very smooth.  The Hoosiers
sort of fall in between, and I've never run them, but I expect that
they squeal some under heavy cornering.

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 09:12:17 1993
Subject: Re:  Stalling in a '79 Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4939
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [maybe I won't sound like a broken record either.  J&S's Digital
-> Safeguard box can be triggered from most anything that can fire a
-> coil. >From the cover letter on their literature package:

 I wrote J&S several months ago and never got a reply.  They're
evidently not too interested in selling their product.


-> Retail on this box is $450.  Kinda high but compared to say, an MSD
-> box, rev limiter and boost retard

 If I were building a high-dollar race engine it might be worth it to
get the last two or three horses, but I don't need a kitchen sink too;
just the knock sensor.  So basically it's a slightly smarter version of
the Carter box, only it costs $450 instead of $89.  For that kind of
money, I'd see better return from some of Hoosier's streetable slicks,
or even nitrous.


-> south just this side of Nashville on I-24 so I know you're within,
-> what, maybe 3 hours of a source.

 I could probably make it in 3 hours on the Yamaha, but I'd have half
the law enforcement in two states in fits.  At the legal limit it's
2-1/2 hours just to Memphis.  Nashville's a fair piece from there.
                                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 09:19:04 1993
Subject: Electromotive DFI
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4940
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I've not priced the box but the 5 wire HEI module is about $30
-> from NAPA and the knock sensor is $12.  No fair quoting dealer
-> prices. No one pays that much..... Do they?  JGD]

 Unh... I'm not *that* dumb, John.  I tried pricing the module - which,
BTW, the dealer says is a seven wire part - at NAPA and other places,
but none of them have a listing for it.   I'd like to know what the $12
knock sensor is for; the lowest price I could find was for a Chrysler
for $38.  And you still need the brain box, which is still gonna be $160
from the dealer.

[My knock sensor is for a Dodge turbo Lazer.  Only because someone suggested
it to me several years ago.  I should note that NAPA carries two lines
of such parts.  One is "name brand" such as Standard Parts.  The other
is what the guy behind the counter calls "green box" parts because they
are in otherwise unmarked green and white boxes.  The green box parts are
less than half the price of "name brand".  I recently went to buy a 
chrysler ignition box that I pay $19.50 for.  The guy laid a Standard Parts
unit on the counter and chirped "$55".  He almost had my plastic before
it sunk in.  After the roof settled and he got me a green box part, I
laid them side by side.  Same damn boxes including the various production
markings on the bottom.  The local Downeys carries the same lines so
this green box generic line must be pretty common.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 09:30:57 1993
Subject: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4941
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> whats the word on putting a 400 Small block into an early '70s Nova
-> that is say 70 to 72
->
-> Engine mounts?
-> space?

 Since it's exactly the same size as the original 307, you just unbolt
the original engine and bolt the 400 in its place.  Absolutely no
trouble.

 BTW, the Pontiac 455 will also drop in using Ventura mounts.  It sits
further down and back than the Chevy, and handling isn't affected much.
After all, the Ventura came with the 350 Pontiac, and the 350 and 455
are externally identical.  Or you could slide in a 455 Buick on Skylark
mounts, or a 455 Olds on Omega mounts, or...  basically, anything GM
made will drop right into the mid-series Novas, on factory mounts.  You
can't hardly do a real engine swap in a Nova unless you're using a Ford
or Chrysler motor; GM made it too easy to use GM parts.
       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 09:52:46 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4942
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu






Since those year Nova's came with both small and big block's it should
just be a matter of using the motor mounts from a small block car, since
all Chevy small blocks are the same size.  Just remember that the 400 is
an externally balanced engine and will require a flexplate(automatic),
or flywheel(manual) from a 400.  It also uses its own harmonic balancer,
but that should already be on your engine.

Roger Mrdutt rjm@els.cray.com

----------
Posted by: emory!cray.com!rjm (Roger Mrdutt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 10:01:05 1993
Subject: Re: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4943
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> In my van years, I used a lot of the BFG TA's, mostly the 50 series. I
> really liked the way they handled, but they just didn't last very long.
> I could only get about 20k worth of life out of them. They also weren't
> steel belted back then (70's), and I don't know if they are now. They
> look great. So, maybe there is a trade off between traction and
> longevity (hardness/softness verses traction verses wear).

I've got 205/60HR13 BFG TA's on my Rx-7.  They are AWFUL as far as handling
goes.  Almost 1/4" of tread squirm (in a single direction) with full tread
and a couple of inches of sidewall flex.  They drive like it, too.
Really kicking myself for not spending $20 more and buying A509's from
Tire Rack, but nooooooooooooo, I had to have tires that weekend.

-- 
Jon Lusky
lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu <<== preferred address
lusky@gnu.ai.mit.edu

 79 Rx-7 12A/Holley 4bbl
 67 Camaro/350/4spd (under construction)
 89 Jeep Wrangler/258 (currently self destructing)

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 10:06:27 1993
Subject: Re: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4944
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <6t-vmxf@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>> Can anyone share experience switching from Goodyear Eagle STs (read:no traction)
>> to BF Goodrich TA radials?   I am considering BFG TA's as replacements and I 
>> would like to get better grip.  Will these make a noticeable difference?

>In my van years, I used a lot of the BFG TA's, mostly the 50 series. I
>really liked the way they handled, but they just didn't last very long.
>I could only get about 20k worth of life out of them. They also weren't
>steel belted back then (70's), and I don't know if they are now. They
>look great. So, maybe there is a trade off between traction and
>longevity (hardness/softness verses traction verses wear).

maybe?  there's no maybe about it.  when dealing with competent, top
notch tire companies, there is generally a direct tradeoff between
traction and wear.  occasionally this tradeoff point shifts, in response
to changes in technology, but it is and always has been there.

having said that, i will testify that BFG makes an excellent performance
tire, whereas Goodyear is erratic (occasionally stunning, oftimes
disappointing.)  The Goodyear Eagle line is very erratic, and the
Eagle ST falls on the downside of the line.  it's not that goodyear
is incapable of putting out a good tire, but it is definitely true
that their heart is rarely in it.  you should be aware that BFG and
Yokohama tend to dominate a lot of the racing where streetable tires
are mandated by the sanctioning body: they put a lot more effort into
their street tire lines, whereas Goodyear tends to emphasize their slick
production.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

----------
Posted by: emory!uu2.psi.com!!welty (richard welty)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 14:35:40 1993
Subject: Re: Knock sensor signature analysis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4945
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> > [See "Automotive Electrical/Electronic Systems" from Bosch.  Page 133
> > has some good scope snapshots taken from their narrow band sensor.  I also
> 
> Thanks for the lead John,  I've already been on the phone trying to
> track down a local source for the publication.
> 
> > have some scopemeter screens stored away around here somewhere if you're
> > interested in GIF files. The OEMs will supply information on their
> > sensors if you find the right person.  I have some Bosch info here.]
> 
> I may be interested in the GIFs depending on what I find.  It's true
> about finding the right OEM personnel, I had some great luck with Delco
> in the mid-70's on a problem with the CD ignition system for a 442.  I
> do wish there was an easier way to get service bulletins and the like
> out of the manufacturers though.
> 


I may be able to help with the service bulletins.  I sell for a company
named Alldata.  They have basically ALL of the TSB's for domestic
manufacturers and a large number of those of imports available.

This is a CD-ROM set runnning on a proprietary server that goes into the
shop.  Right now, there are about 60,000 pages of TSB info in the system.
I may be opening the door WAY too wide, but I have one of the machines
as a demo unit, and will research info if needed.  E-mail me if you have
a specific need.
--
Rick Kirchhof   Austin, Texas                   | Experience is what you
Domain: rick@posms.aus.tx.us                    | get when you don't
Bang path: .....!cfi.org!posms!rick             | get what you want.            
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: emory!posms.aus.tx.us!rick (Rick Kirchhof)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 14:40:14 1993
Subject: Re: 153 cid Dodge
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4946
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>I was just curious about the possibilities of bolting on one of the new
>turbo III's onto a plain jane 153. (K VIN) Would the turbo, exhaust, intake,
>etc. bolt on or would it be better just to do an engine swap.  Or would 135
>parts work?  I just want to get some more power out of it....Your help would
>be appreciated.

	Well, the parts would bolt on, but you also need a lot of
other new stuff.  For example, the crank, rods, pistons, and cam are
different, the ECM probably won't work right, and you need a new fuel
tank (for a higher pressure system).    My ride is an '86 Lancer 2.5L(153)
and its got a load of miles, and I'm also interested. I have found out that
an entire swap is easiest, and good luck finding a TurboIII 2.5L. A 2.2L
Turbo I would be a lot more available, and you can put Turbo II & III
stuff on it.   What is the K engine in anyway? And if you got the money,
Crysler has the Turbo IV out.
	e-mail me at    trot3702@nova.gmi.edu
			
					Jason "mopar" Trotter

----------
Posted by: emory!nova.gmi.edu!trot3702 (Jason Mopar Trotter)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 10 14:45:15 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4947
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I am planning a restoration on a 70-72 nova, with a few mods...
I plan to drop in a 400 small block, and I need to know which manual &
automatic transmissions will bolt up to the 400.....

If anyone has any ideas on handling improvements also, don't hesitate to
give me advice.
If anyone has questions about 66-67 Nova I have already done that
restoration...


          "There's no such thing as fast enough"
                   -- James Taylor
                   -- Two Lane Blacktop



     Feel The Bass go BOOM! 


----------
Posted by: "The Green Skittle............................................." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 11 01:17:43 1993
Subject: Olds Compression Ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4948
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


    Well, I hope this question is a little simpler than the cooling
problems I was having in that '79 Mustang.  8)

    On my (never ending) rebuild of the 350 Olds for my '71 Cutlass,
I'm trying to figure out what pistons I'll need to get 9:1 or 9.5:1
compression with the post-'71 "-7" heads.s.   Sorry, but I don't know
the size of the combustion chambers.   Can anyone suggest a good book 
with all this kind of data in it?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 11 01:22:51 1993
Subject: Need Electrical Wiring Diagrams for 1970 Mercury Marauder
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4949
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



Greeting Everyone - 

..and now for something completely different!

I am in need of a detailed electrical wiring diagram for
a 1970 Mercury Marauder.  These diagrams should include
all primary and secondary electrical systems, both underhood
and throughout the rest of the car, and should also have 
the appropriate color codes listed for the various 
connectors and terminations.

I have already consulted Helm, and they can only go back as
far as 1977 with these types of requests.

So, does anyone know of a place to get this kind of info?

For more detail, generalized diagrams for Ford/Mercury
 full size 1970 autos may suffice.  

Thanks - 

Mark F. Mitcham

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
1970 Mercury Marauder:
     429 CJ Motor (someday may sport those BOSS SVO heads!)
     C-6 Automatic
     3.83:1 Posi Rear End
     Last 1/4 mile:  17.35s (Jul 1989 - before the posi and
     trans work)

1973 AMC Gremlin:
     258 CID Six Cylinder
     Chrysler 3 Speed Manual
     OVER 350,000 MILES ON THE ORIGINAL MOTOR!
     (and it doesn't burn a drop of oil! - but, its got alot of
     compression loss)
     Last 1/4 Mile:   20+s (1986?)

1969 Mercury Marauder X-100
     429 CJ Motor
     C-6 Automatic
     4.11 Posi Rear End
     Last 1/4 Mile:  16.98s (Jul 1989)

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!triton.unm.edu!markm ()
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 11 12:33:41 1993
Subject: Re: Need Electrical Wiring Diagrams for 1970 Mercury Marauder
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4950
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Sat, 10 Apr 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> So, does anyone know of a place to get this kind of info?
> For more detail, generalized diagrams for Ford/Mercury
>  full size 1970 autos may suffice.  


If you have a semi-decent public library, go there, thats where I founf
complete wiring diagrams for 60's chevys and other makes too...

-Rich

          "There's no such thing as fast enough"
                   -- James Taylor
                   -- Two Lane Blacktop



     Feel The Bass go BOOM! 


----------
Posted by: "The Green Skittle............................................." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 11 12:38:47 1993
Subject: Re: Olds Compression Ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4951
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In alt.hotrod you write:


>    Well, I hope this question is a little simpler than the cooling
>problems I was having in that '79 Mustang.  8)

>    On my (never ending) rebuild of the 350 Olds for my '71 Cutlass,
>I'm trying to figure out what pistons I'll need to get 9:1 or 9.5:1
>compression with the post-'71 "-7" heads.s.   Sorry, but I don't know
>the size of the combustion chambers.   Can anyone suggest a good book 
>with all this kind of data in it?

If you find the information I'd appreciate it as well.  I have a '76 455 I
might rebuild after the summer.  With a choice of compression of 10.25 or
8.5 I'd like something in between....of course there is always water
injection.....

  Thanks,
  Greg

-- 
===========================================================================
  "Bureaucracy is a challenge to be conquered with a righteous attitude,
     a tolerance for stupidity, and a bulldozer when necessary"
                  -- Peter's Laws

----------
Posted by: Gregory Mark Stiegler 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 11 16:39:57 1993
Subject: Re: Need Electrical Wiring Diagrams for 1970 Mercury Marauder
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4952
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I am in need of a detailed electrical wiring diagram for
> a 1970 Mercury Marauder.  These diagrams should include
> all primary and secondary electrical systems, both underhood
> and throughout the rest of the car, and should also have 
> the appropriate color codes listed for the various 
> connectors and terminations.
> 
> I have already consulted Helm, and they can only go back as
> far as 1977 with these types of requests.
> 
> So, does anyone know of a place to get this kind of info?
> Thanks - 
> 
> Mark F. Mitcham
> 

When I called Helm for service manuals for my car (72 Mercury Cougar), 
they couldn't help me either, but gave me the number of a company that
deals in older automotive literature.  I called the company and was able
to get a full set of service manuals, as well as vacuum and wiring diagrams.
The wiring diagrams are great.  They fold open to almost poster size,
which will make it much easier to trace a circuit than diagrams printed
on a single page as in my 72 Chevelle manual.  

Faxon Auto Literature
1655 East Sixth Street
Corona, California  91719
1-800-458-2734

"We stock...95% of factory wiring diagrams from 1946-1992"


----------
Posted by: emory!wam.umd.edu!liane (Liane Marie Langbehn)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 03:11:34 1993
Subject: 1908 Trans-Am question?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4953
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


This woman I know wants to sell her car, and buy something more suitable
to her temperment and needs.  So, she wants to sell a 1980 Turbo Trans-Am
(Pace Car special edition?) and asked me what it might be worth.  I know as
much about American V8s as I do Mongolian wedding etiquette, so I thought
I'd see if anyone out there could offer a more educated guess.  I told her
it might sell for around $2,500 to $3,000, it is in pretty good shape, well
maintained and such.  If I'm way out of line, either up or down, I'd like
to hear about it.  And I'll let you have a bite of her famous fudge to boot!

Thanks,
mjb.

----------
Posted by: emory!triumph.cs.utah.edu!mjb (Mark J Bradakis)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 03:16:27 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4954
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 > 
> whats the word on putting a 400 Small block into an early '70s Nova
> that is say 70 to 72

No sweat.
> 
> 
> Engine mounts?

Standard 350 engine mounts for that year should work.  Both the 350 and 400
are small blocks with the same mounts.

> space?

Well if a 350 fits so will a 400. They are both the same deminsions.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 10:41:22 1993
Subject: Olds Compression Ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4955
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> If you find the information I'd appreciate it as well.  I have a '76 455 I
> might rebuild after the summer.  With a choice of compression of 10.25 or
> 8.5 I'd like something in between....of course there is always water
> injection.....

There was supposedly a '68-'70 Olds 455 with 9:1 compression; the
310-HP Rocket 455 V-8.  Available in Delta 88's and Vista Cruisers.
You could get an early set of cylinder heads and go this route.

This info is from the "Oldsmobile 4-4-2 & W-Machines Restoration
Guide."  It's an ok book if you want info about several years of cars
(1964-1972), but mostly it's options info photocopied from the various
years shop manuals.

--
Joseph P. Cernada	AIT, Inc.
914/347-6860		50 Executive Blvd.
cernada@ait.com		Elmsford, New York 10523

----------
Posted by: emory!ait.com!cernada (Joseph P. Cernada)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 10:46:06 1993
Subject: Olds Compression Ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4956
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>     On my (never ending) rebuild of the 350 Olds for my '71 Cutlass,
> I'm trying to figure out what pistons I'll need to get 9:1 or 9.5:1
> compression with the post-'71 "-7" heads.s.   Sorry, but I don't know
> the size of the combustion chambers.   Can anyone suggest a good book 
> with all this kind of data in it?

I'm posting this instead of replying directly 'cause I saw someone
else was interested in this info (also wanted to see if we could flush
out any more Olds fans).

I heard (from some car mag) that Mondello was putting together some
sort of Oldsmobile facts book.  You might try giving them a call.
They might also know your combustion chamber size.

Also, there was a '70 version of the Rocket 350 w/ 9:1 compression,
maybe you can scrounge a pair of the "6" heads?

--
Joseph P. Cernada	AIT, Inc.
914/347-6860		50 Executive Blvd.
cernada@ait.com		Elmsford, New York 10523

----------
Posted by: emory!ait.com!cernada (Joseph P. Cernada)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 10:51:10 1993
Subject: Re: 1908 Trans-Am question?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4957
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Mark J Bardakis asks
> 
> This woman I know wants to sell her car, and buy something more suitable
> to her temperment and needs.  So, she wants to sell a 1980 Turbo Trans-Am
> (Pace Car special edition?) and asked me what it might be worth.  I know as
> much about American V8s as I do Mongolian wedding etiquette, so I thought
> I'd see if anyone out there could offer a more educated guess.  I told her
> it might sell for around $2,500 to $3,000, it is in pretty good shape, well
> maintained and such.  If I'm way out of line, either up or down, I'd like
> to hear about it.  And I'll let you have a bite of her famous fudge to boot!
> 
> Thanks,
> mjb.
> 
Well Mark if you take a basic 18,000 starting price and calculate it will loose
15 % value each year then 2,600 would be correct.  However this is a limited
production machine and I think you could get twice that if it is low milage 
and in good shape.

dennis
 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 10:57:07 1993
Subject: Re: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4958
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Eric Youngblood writes:

Can anyone share experience switching from Goodyear Eagle STs (read:no tractio)
to BF Goodrich TA radials?   I am considering BFG TA's as replacements and I 
would like to get better grip.  Will these make a noticeable difference?

	I went from Eagle GTs to BFG TA's. The GTs were definitely stickier on
	dry pavement, but terrible in the rain and snow. The TA's have a 
	slightly softer sidewall than the GTs, but for a daily driver 
	performance tire their great. Their great in the snow and rain ( for a
	performance tire), the ride is smooth and quiet, handling is still
	respectable, and they last (I've gor over 40K on them and they still
	have over 50% of their tread left).

	I don't know abount the Eagle STs but I'm very happy with my TAs.

	Pete

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 11:01:43 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4959
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>whats the word on putting a 400 Small block into an early '70s Nova
>that is say 70 to 72

	If you have a small block in there now, the 400 will drop in without
any problem. The 400 is identical to just about any other Chevy SB except for
the number of freeze plugs. If you have a six in there now, just get some
mounts out of a junk nova with a SB or buy news ones. Just remember to use the
400 flex plate (the 400 is balance at he flex plate).

	Pete

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 12:36:45 1993
Subject: Re: Olds Compression Ratios 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4960
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>I heard (from some car mag) that Mondello was putting together some
>sort of Oldsmobile facts book.  You might try giving them a call.
>They might also know your combustion chamber size.

    Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

>Also, there was a '70 version of the Rocket 350 w/ 9:1 compression,
>maybe you can scrounge a pair of the "6" heads?

    My 200k beater motor is a '70, with the "-6" heads.     Problem
is, I've got a freshly re-done and ported -7 heads that I'd like to
use.    I figured that since I need new pistons for the
motor-under-construction, I'd use the -7's and get the corrosponding
pistons to get 9:1.    Those -6 heads are pretty far gone.....

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 12:47:16 1993
Subject: Malibu code breakdown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4961
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a friend who just bought a 78 Malibu w/ a 4 speed. He swears its a
factory trans, But I say no way. The radiator still has the fittings for the
automatic trans cooler, but he said that could have been replaced sometime
throughout its life. Does anybody know the codes for the 4 speed in a 78
Malibu with a 305, So we can end this argument for good?

Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 13:00:48 1993
Subject: Re: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4962
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <0c-v21n@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>Ken Mosher writes:
>
>>I ran across an article in the newest Turbo magazine 
>
>	I'd be interested in finding out more about this "Turbo Magazine".

"Turbo & Hi-Tech Performance ISSN 0894-5039
 is published bi-monthly by Mag-Tec Productions Inc.,
 9952 Hamilton Ave., Huntington Beach CA  92646
 (714) 962-7795.  Subscription rates: 1-YR (6 issues)
 $16.97; 2-yrs (12 issues) $22.97.  CA residents add 7.5%."

You can also join the Turbo Club of America, and get discounts on parts from
a bunch of dealers/manufacturers.  Its a pretty good magazine, even if they
don't proof-read to see if they left any out ;^)

Later,
Pat

Pat Kindell                        CX500T,KDX200,XL250R
Convex Computer Corp.cT/CJ              DoD # 117  AMA # 613655
3000 Waterview Parkway             WFO # $*&%^_*&%!!
Richardson, TX  75083-3851         kindell@eugene.convex.com

Disclaimer: see above.

----------
Posted by: emory!convex.com!kindell (Pat Kindell)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 14:17:43 1993
Subject: Re: Time to get a grip (tires) 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4963
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Eric Youngblood writes:
>
>Can anyone share experience switching from Goodyear Eagle STs 
>to BF Goodrich TA radials?   I am considering BFG TA's as replacements and I 
>would like to get better grip.  Will these make a noticeable difference?

     I went from ST's (SuckyTraction) to BFG TA's.    Not only were
they cheaper than ST's, but they have excellent wet traction, and they
did almost as good as snow tires in Syracuse snow.   (Hey, my car's a
heavy-duty daily driver....) I've got 30k on them, and I've hardly
worn 1/2 the tread off of them.   In dry traction, they grip better
than ST's.

     On the tire subject, has anyone had experience with how 65 ratio
tires handle compared to 60 ratio tires?   I can tell the difference
between 60's and 70's, but I've yet to try 65's.

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  


----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 14:26:15 1993
Subject: Re: Steering mods (Was: Early Nova Suspension Mods)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4964
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Hey Mark;
> 
> 	His name is Chuck, and he is the owner of The Chop Shop in
> Lakeport California. I've never had to call him, so I don't have his

Thanks for the info Gary, I appreciate you taking the time.  The Chop
Shop seems to ring a bell, makes me wonder if it's been mentioned
in a Rod & Custom article or something.

> number. I also don't remember his last name, but like I said, he's the
> owner and main worker there. His specialty is chopping 50's style mercs,
> and putting BIG blocks in them. Beautiful work, and at the end of the
> day he loves sitting around drinking beer and bench racing...

Sounds like a great place to checkout every once in a while.

-- 
Mark Walker			| My old man always said:
mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu	|	"Too much is just right!"
505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)	| Guess that applies to my preferences
Albuquerque, NM			| in performance cars.

----------
Posted by: emory!warlock.eece.unm.edu!mwalker
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 14:31:49 1993
Subject: Re: Olds Compression Ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4965
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Olds engines changed compression with the pistons.
The low performance comp.(8.5-9), used pistons with a dish the came to within
about 1/4 inch(approx.) of the outer edge. The 10-10.5 pistons had a much smaller
dish in the pistons(approx. 3/4-1 inch in from edge.

----------
Posted by: emory!cray.com!rjm (Roger Mrdutt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 14:38:05 1993
Subject: Aluminum rods in a street engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4966
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Does anyone have some experience running Al rods. All the information I have 
ever read said not to run Al rods on the street due to stretching and shedding
problems. I have rebuilt a few Triumph triples and never have encountered any
of the alleged problems. The Triumph rods are admittedly in a very low power
engine, but then they got run pretty hard.
Al rods are much cheaper than steel and they are soooo nice and light.
Any thoughts, info, etc. ?
Millam

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 14:41:19 1993
Subject: Technical Service bulletins (Was: Re: Knock sensor signature analysis)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4967
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

[lead in stuff ommited...]

> > ...  I
> > do wish there was an easier way to get service bulletins and the like
> > out of the manufacturers though.
> > 
> 
> I may be able to help with the service bulletins.  I sell for a company
> named Alldata.  They have basically ALL of the TSB's for domestic

Where have I heard that name before?  Has the company had other
technical info products in the past?

> manufacturers and a large number of those of imports available.

I'll be darned, I hadn't expected something like this to be available.  I
can't say I have any current needs though.  I was just lamenting the
lack (in my experience) of even a list of the available service bulletins.
I would have just liked to know what was available.  I prefer the
prevention route on dealing with machines (and software!).  

What kind of indexing of the TSBs is provided.

> This is a CD-ROM set runnning on a proprietary server that goes into the
                                         ^^^
Why was it necessary to make access restricted to particular hardware?

> shop.  Right now, there are about 60,000 pages of TSB info in the system.

Are the figures reproduced with similar quality as the paper TSBs?  How
about color?

> I may be opening the door WAY too wide, but I have one of the machines

Thanks for the offer.  I considered it to be quite generous on your part.

> as a demo unit, and will research info if needed.  E-mail me if you have
> a specific need.
> --
> Rick Kirchhof   Austin, Texas                   | Experience is what you
> Domain: rick@posms.aus.tx.us                    | get when you don't
> Bang path: .....!cfi.org!posms!rick             | get what you want. 
-- 
Mark Walker	mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 15:02:14 1993
Subject: Re: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4968
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Since I was giving the reader's digest version, I probably over
-> simplified all this in my summary.  The point I was trying to extract
-> was that the ratio of intake to exhaust is considerably different in
-> a forced induction motor than an

 Yeah.  Of course, not all engines use grossly mismatched intake and
exhaust valve sizes like Ford and Chevy - Pontiac valves are much closer
in size, and at first glance on some Mopar heads you have trouble
telling the intake from the exhaust.
                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 15:07:34 1993
Subject: Re: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4969
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> [This is true.  I hate to say anything about an direct competitor in
-> this forum :-)

 No problem.  I'll just give my usual honest opinion, and you can chime
in with an occasional "uh-huh".
                                                                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 15:12:21 1993
Subject: Re: Scales
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4970
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> How do you drive your car onto these without pushing off (or rocking
-> off) the rocker plates?

 You jack the car up and assemble the four scales under it.  Since
jacking with weight distribution is usually a lengthy task it's no
trouble, particularly when you consider the price.  If you want drive-on
scales, you'd better have a firm grip on your wallet.
                                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 16:40:44 1993
Subject: RE: Malibu code breakdown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4971
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

[details about agument over originality of "factory" 4-spd in '78 Malibu 
deleted]

I have seen one of these offered for sale in my area (Sandusky, OH); 
never went to look at it though.  they also claimed it was factory.

----------
Posted by: emory!tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov!"LIMS::TPCLIFF"
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 16:45:01 1993
Subject: Re: Blower Cams, etc.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4972
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> So ANYWAY, I'm also a subscriber to PE, and plan to pour over every
-> issue in detail ... but until I start seeing PE in my mail box, I
-> have to be content with what I can get ahold of.

 Yeah, we need to aim a virtual kick down Atlanta way and get John
moving again.


-> feel that, in general, Dave's statement as to the content of the mag
-> is pretty accurate, but *I'd* like to separate myself from that sort
-> of characterization!

 Well, if you'd kept quiet, nobody would have known, right?  
I admit, once every six months or so I break down and buy a copy too,
but at least I don't tell anyone.  Er... hmm....
                                                                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 16:50:01 1993
Subject: Electromotive DFI
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4973
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> less than half the price of "name brand".  I recently went to buy a
-> chrysler ignition box that I pay $19.50 for.  The guy laid a Standard
-> Parts unit on the counter and chirped "$55".

 Try Wal-Mart - the Chrysler modules are $14.67, GM modules $14.89.
                                                        
[Neither the K-marts nor the Wal-Marts around here carry the Chrysler 
modules.  They have the HEI blobs and sometimes some of the Ford
modules.  Spent the better part of a saturday awhile back driving around
looking for said item.  Querying the stock-droid as to why no chrysler
modules only elicited the usual droid look.  I try not to think sinister, 
conspirital thoughts but....  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 16:56:01 1993
Subject: Olds Compression Ratios
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4974
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->   On my (never ending) rebuild of the 350 Olds for my '71 Cutlass,
-> I'm trying to figure out what pistons I'll need to get 9:1 or 9.5:1
-> compression with the post-'71 "-7" heads.s.   Sorry, but I don't know
-> the size of the combustion chambers.   Can anyone suggest a good book
-> with all this kind of data in it?

 Hey, at least yours isn't on a stand in the living room.  It's annoying
as hell to wander in in the morning and see AB has hung laundry all over
it.  I mean, it's not a freaking laundry rack.  On the other hand, she
hasn't complained about it any.  

 I happen to have a relatively enormous amount of Oldsmobile
information I've gathered in hope of doing an Olds article for PE,
assuming we manage to kick John back into gear and I can convince him to
run an article on something that's not electronic.  Opening a window
into that file, we find various raw data:

[Hey, dud, I'll print anything that's fit to print and fits the charter.  
But it's gotta be in my grubby little hands in order to get printed. (hint)  I'm
learning that after hassling with advertising (I've hired and fired 2 reps
so far), begging authors to tickle the keys is going to take up the 
biggest chunk of my time.  Not unique to amateur authors either.  Grrrr.  JGD]

=============

'68-'70 W31 heads had 2.005 intake, 1.630 exhausts; they were just
standard heads with the pockets opened up to accept 455 valves.  1970
W31 heads had valve rotators.  CC Jan '80 says the heads are good to
6500 on the 350, 6000 on the 403.

455 heads flow more air than 403 heads - (HR May 80)


the best heads are "C" castings. (PHR May '85)  They can be fitted with
2.072 intakes and 1.625 exhausts.


all '78 and later heads are lightweight castings; some pre-'78s were
lightweight.  Later heads are 12 pounds lighter.  All lightweight heads
were cast by Pontiac Motor Division and have casting number 554716 and
"PMD" cast in.  The big block 2.0/1.6 valves can be backfitted.  (Std is
1.875/1.5) The head bolts were changed from 7/16 to 1/2 inch somewhere
around 1978. Early blocks will accept late heads, but require special
Fel-Pro gasket #8171-1 to prevent water leaks.
 - (HR Feb '80)

early motors used rubber umbrella valve stem seals, later used Teflon

The W-31 hipo heads were available from '68-'70, part number 230119.
Identifiable by "400" and "370" straddling the center lower head bolt
over center exhaust port) and "D" or "F" cast into lower left by head
bolt. W-31s had screw in studs and guide plates.
 - (HR Feb '80)


Mondello says the '67 Toronado head pn 411188 is the absolute best head;
the 430 head's steel exhaust seat inserts can come loose.  The Toro
head's combustion chambers can be brought down to 67cc.  - (HR Jan '81)


mid-'80 Olds switched from 5/16 to 3/8 pushrods; may require special
pushrods when crossbreeding heads and blocks  - (PHR Aug '84)

pre-'77 350 heads have 7/16 bolt holes, all 403s have 1/2  - (PHR Apr
'86)

when putting 're-'77 350 heads on a 403, the locating pin holes in the
head must be drilled out to 5/16 inch so they will line up with the
block pins.   - (PHR Apr '86)


casting #  number(1)      valves     CID     year   chamberCC
409-147      7          1.875,1.5    350   '68-'70      70
411-929      8          1.875,1.5    350   '71-'76      81
544-716      3A         1.875,1.5    350   '77-'80      75
554-717      4A         2.00,1.5     403   '77-'79      83
(1) cast on left bottom corner of head
  - (PHR Apr '86)


455 marine heads are not siamesed - exhaust ports are wider - NHRA
accepts them as stock - (CC Dec 77)


'85 307 heads have D shaped center exhaust ports instead of square,
restricted high swirl intake ports  (HR Mar 86)

=====================

 There ya go!  Notice (ahem) the sources are included.  I'd like to get
some actual airflow figures for the heads, but that'll probably have to
wait for my flow bench.
                                                                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 17:02:06 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4975
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->      If you have a small block in there now, the 400 will drop in
-> without any problem. The 400 is identical to just about any other
-> Chevy SB except for the number of freeze plugs.

  Some of the last 400s came with four freeze plugs in the usual
small block location instead of the six plugs the early blocks used.
I guess Chevy had managed to improve their casting process and wanted to
eliminate the troublesome plugs.

 FYI, the factory calls them "core plugs".  When the blocks are cast,
the sand cores are assembled like a giant jigsaw puzzle.  The water
jacket cores are thin and weak, and require support from the sides to
keep from breaking when they're hit by molten iron being poured in.
Since the 400s had no jacketing between the cylinders, there was
naturally no sand there, so the extra core support was added.  These
holes are then reamed out and plugged to keep water from running out.
They don't, and never had, anything to do with water freezing, though
they'll usually get pushed out if the block does freeze up.

 Anyway, the four-plug 400 blocks are *quite* popular in some racing
circles.  After all, they look just like 350... or even 305... blocks.
                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 17:07:29 1993
Subject: Malibu code breakdown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4976
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I have a friend who just bought a 78 Malibu w/ a 4 speed. He swears
-> its a factory trans, But I say no way. The radiator still has the
-> fittings for the automatic trans cooler, but he said that could have
-> been replaced sometimethrou Malibu with a 305, So we can end this
-> argument for good?

 For a couple of years in there, no manual transmissions were offered.
However, the manual WAS available for a couple of years, with certain
packages.  I don't have any codes for this, though.

 GM was real weird about manual trans back in the late '70s, early '80s.
                                                                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 23:47:09 1993
Subject: Re: Scales
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4977
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


On 12 Apr 93 15:05, hotrod wrote:

> You jack the car up and assemble the four scales under it.  Since
>jacking with weight distribution is usually a lengthy task it's no
>trouble, particularly when you consider the price.  If you want drive-on
>scales, you'd better have a firm grip on your wallet.

I saw some digital readout bathroom scales that have a max capacity
of 325lbs. They use a strain gauge for the measurement.  They are $25
each.  I think i'll pick up one to see if it can be disassembled without
destroying it.  If so I'll get six, mount three on a steel plate for
each wheel.  Measure two wheels and block the other for the correct
height.  It will be a little inconvenient but I will be able to drive
onto them.

[I've ripped a bunch of digital scales apart (in the store and out :-) and
have never seen any that use strain gauges.  They use the same mechanism
as the conventional "analog" scales, only with a shaft encoder wheel 
instead of a pointer.  A pair of optical interrupters feed the quadrature
signals (so direction can be dertermined) to a custom chip.  This chip, in
order to reduce costs, has a "feature" that makes the scales useless for our 
needs.   The scale is turned on by operating a switch.  The chip assumes
there is no load on the scale and sets zero accordingly.  As weight is
applied, the scale tracks the rotation of the encoder wheel which oscillates
just like the dial on analog scales.  When the chip detects the wheel is
fairly stable, it displays the reading and starts timing out for an auto
shutdown.  It will not attempt to acquire another reading until the turn-on
switch is operated again.  Which, of course, tells the scale to again
assume zero weight and to zero the display.  Thus the chip enforces the 
usual method of blubber evaluation of hit switch, stand on scales, read
weight, turn around and leave.  Not good when there's a car sitting on the 
platform.  JGD]

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil

-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 12 23:55:38 1993
Subject: Planning Pont 400 rebuild
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4978
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I've decided it's time to do a complete engine rebuild on my 70 Firebird
Formula 400.  This will be my first rebuild so I apologize if the questions
seem somewhat basic.  My objectives are to build a strong, reliable street
machine that can be used as a daily driver and to maintain original power
outout while lowering the compression ratio.  I'd appreciate advice on the
following subjects:

1. Books.  I'd like to get some recommendations about general guides to
rebuilding an engine.  The auto mags I read seem to have dozens of useful
tips for doing a quality job.  Are there any books that have most of these  
suggestions in one place?

2. Machine work.  There seems to be an incredible range of machining options
available for the rebuilder.  I plan to rebore the cylinders, grind the 
crank, and grind the valve seats.  I'd like to receive recommendations for
other operations that I've read about.  These include align boring the 
crank journals, align boring the cylinders, balancing the crank, etc.
I'd like this engine to last a long time so I don't mind spending a little
more to put it together right.

3. Hardened valve seats.  Are these worth installing?

4. So Cal Shop Recommendations.  I'd appreciate getting some recomendations
for good shops in San Diego and Orange counties.

Any other miscellaneous recommendations will also be appreciated.  Thanks.

Fred Criscuolo
fcriscuo@ucsd.edu





-- 
   +------------------------ .signature ----------------------------------+
   | Fred Criscuolo                                (619) 546-4083 (voice) |
   | fcriscuo@ucsd.edu                             (619) 625-4516 (fax)   |
   +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

----------
Posted by: emory!network.ucsd.edu!fred (Fred Criscuolo)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 00:21:25 1993
Subject: Re: Olds Compression Ratios 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4979
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I happen to have a relatively enormous amount of Oldsmobile
>information I've gathered in hope of doing an Olds article for PE,
>assuming we manage to kick John back into gear and I can convince him to
>run an article on something that's not electronic.  Opening a window
>into that file, we find various raw data:

      Well, once this thing is together and broken in,  I'll hopefully
have a little something to contrbute when I get the port FI on it.
I"m planning on using the manifold and injectors from a 76-79(?)
Seville that had the FI'd Olds 350.    Amazingly, junkyards place NO
value on this stuff.   I picked up the manifold (with 4 NEW
injectors), wiring harness and all the sensors (new also) for a measly
$25 bucks.  The computer was already gone, but I don't think I would
have made much use of it anyway.....

      Anyone want to suggest a CHEAP computer to use with this?   

>casting #  number(1)      valves     CID     year   chamberCC
>409-147      7          1.875,1.5    350   '68-'70      70
>411-929      8          1.875,1.5    350   '71-'76      81
>544-716      3A         1.875,1.5    350   '77-'80      75
>554-717      4A         2.00,1.5     403   '77-'79      83
>(1) cast on left bottom corner of head
>  - (PHR Apr '86)

   Thanks.   This is just what I've been looking for.    Does anyone
have a formula that would let me figure the change in compression when
going from 70 --> 81 cc heads?    Or, what compression would each one
yield with the standard low-comp Olds piston?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 00:33:12 1993
Subject: An anniversary of sorts
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4980
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well guys, today marked an important day of sorts.  I think.  Two years
ago at 9:00 in the morning, my house and office was burning down and I
was standing there in my birthday suit watching it happen.  That was the event,
more than anything else, that got me into this crazy magazine business.
How time flies when you're having fun....

John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 09:45:20 1993
Subject: another Ford engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4986
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



So where does the 312 cid motor from the 55-57 Thunderbirds
fit in?

Just curious?

Steve Cole

----------
Posted by: emory!rigel.tamu.edu!smc9782 (DEAD DOG)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 09:50:26 1993
Subject: Re: Technical Service bulletins (Was: Re: Knock sensor signature analysis)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4987
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> > I may be able to help with the service bulletins.  I sell for a company
> > named Alldata.  They have basically ALL of the TSB's for domestic
> 
> Where have I heard that name before?  Has the company had other
> technical info products in the past?

The founder of Alldata, was also the founder of Alltest, an automotive
test equipment company that he sold out of in 1987.  Alltest is still in
existance.  Alldata is a one product company, _data_.

> 
> > manufacturers and a large number of those of imports available.
> 
> I'll be darned, I hadn't expected something like this to be available.  I
> can't say I have any current needs though.  I was just lamenting the
> lack (in my experience) of even a list of the available service bulletins.
> I would have just liked to know what was available.  I prefer the
> prevention route on dealing with machines (and software!).  
> 
> What kind of indexing of the TSBs is provided.
>

TSB's are available by subject using specific search patterns such as: 
Drivability, PROM updates, noise, leaks, etc.  They are also available
for search by title, TSB number, and procedure updates to manuals.
 
> > This is a CD-ROM set runnning on a proprietary server that goes into the
>                                          ^^^
> Why was it necessary to make access restricted to particular hardware?
> 
Mainly to provide the fastest access and print times.  The fax similar
internal printer prints text or graphics at 12 seconds per page.  Since a
large part of what is offered is in the nature of sales help (recall
searches, TSB updates, explanations of interference vs free-running
engine designs) it is most important that it print quickly, on demand,
and without excess noise.  We are in the process of providing a DIAL UP
access port that will print on a 24 pin or a laser.  It now exists, but
is not for sale everywhere.  This is the exact same data we place in the
field, but only on a pay-as-you-go basis.

> > shop.  Right now, there are about 60,000 pages of TSB info in the system.
> 
> Are the figures reproduced with similar quality as the paper TSBs?  How
> about color?
> 
The TSB data as other info in the system is not altered or edited other
than to block out logos and trademarks.  Data is rendered in B/W at 200
dpi.  Since we store on CD-ROM, we have no need to condense or edit 
source material.


----------
Posted by: emory!posms.aus.tx.us!rick (Rick Kirchhof)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 09:59:03 1993
Subject: Re: Planning Pont 400 rebuild
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4981
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



|> 
|> I've decided it's time to do a complete engine rebuild on my 70 Firebird
|> Formula 400.  This will be my first rebuild so I apologize if the questions
|> seem somewhat basic.  My objectives are to build a strong, reliable street
|> machine that can be used as a daily driver and to maintain original power
|> outout while lowering the compression ratio.  I'd appreciate advice on the
|> 


 I've got a 77 TA w/ the Pontiac 400 cid engine. It was overhauled about
18k miles ago which included a mild performance street cam (intake .465 / 214 dur
@ .050, exhaust .480/224 dur @ .050). The heads had a "street-comp" port and valve
job (whatever street-comp is?). It has forged aluminum pistons and runs at 9.0:1
compression. The entire crank assembly has been balanced & blueprinted, high 
volume oil pump with Valvoline 10w30 synthetic oil.
Its induction starts with the open scoop at the base of the windsheild through a
K&N cotton/wire mesh air filter, Holley 650 vac sec "emission" legal carb. It has
the original stock Pontiac manifold. The exhaust begins at 1-5/8" Hooker headers
w/ 3" collectors and includes a crossover pipe. The dual exhaust is 2-1/4" and
uses high flow mufflers.
The TH350 is driven by the stock 1200-1500 stall torque converter. The governor
is adjusted to provide WOT shifts at 5300 rpm. The power is transmitted to the
wheels through a GM 10-bolt 3.08 differential. Traction (or lack of) is provided
by Goodyear ST P235R15 radials. Track times (including rollout of 0.29 secs)
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 
   (soon to be BFG P245 60's)         
indicate an extreemly sluggish 60 foot times in the 2.8 second range, 0-60mph is
achieved in ~6.0 & 1/4 mile at ~14.4 secs at 102mph.

The engine idles well :   ~19" @ idle (14" in gear stopped) runs cool and gets
about 14-15 mpg around town.  I drive this daily to and from work and the setup
is very streetable.  It is also *very* fun when you lean on it a bit.  This
engine gets plain mean above 2500 rpm and *really* pulls hard through 4800 rpm.

The 3.08 axle and low stall converter while hampering launch put the engine revs
right about 3000 (on the fat part of the torque curve) at about 75 mph for good
cruise economy.  


Hope this helps,

keep us informed on your progress.

$0.02

Ericy


      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
      |                         \,  _}                              |
      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 10:04:48 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4982
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Dave Williams says about Chevy small blocks:
"Anyway, the four-plug 400 blocks are *quite* popular in some racing
circles.  After all, they look just like 350... or even 305... blocks."

But to really fool the inspectors you need to internally balance the
crank so that you don't have that giveaway cut on the damper and the
weight on the flywheel.

BTW, speaking of 400s, for a short while Chevy had a large-block
402 which is sometimes referred to as a 400.  Of course these
won't necessarily fit into the space where a small block would go.
Be careful when somebody offers you a 400 and make sure it's what
you want.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 10:12:10 1993
Subject: Aluminum rods in a street engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4983
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Does anyone have some experience running Al rods. All the information
-> I have ever read said not to run Al rods on the street due to
-> stretching and shedding problems. I have rebuilt a few Triumph
-> triples and never have encountered any of the alleged problems. The
-> Triumph rods are admittedly in a very low power engine, but then they
-> got run pretty hard.
-> Al rods are much cheaper than steel and they are soooo nice and
-> light. Any thoughts, info, etc. ?

 Jenkins and Yunick say to throw them away after 50 runs or a season on
the track, but those were all-out race motors 20 years ago.  Triumph
wasn't the only bike manufacturer to use aluminum rods, and Nash
automobiles used them too.

 H-O Racing Specialties claims they've run aluminum rods over 100,000
miles in their street motors without problems, and just put the rods
back in when they overhauled the motor.

 Metallurgically, of course, aluminum WILL eventually fatigue.  Nobody
seems to have a firm grip on "eventually" though.  The thought of
aluminum uprights and A-arms on the '84-up Corvettes gave me the
heebies, but they seem to have worked out OK in service.

 If I needed an odd rod length and had to go to aluminum rods, I'd just
chuck 'em in and not worry about it.  I dunno about you, but I have this
horrible tendency to take my motors apart and fiddle with them.  
They wouldn't likely see more than 10..20,000 miles between teardowns,
so an eyeball or maybe dye-penetrant inspection should catch any
potential problems.
                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 10:17:28 1993
Subject: Electromotive DFI
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4984
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> looking for said item.  Querying the stock-droid as to why no
-> chrysler modules only elicited the usual droid look.  I try not to
-> think sinister, conspirital thoughts but....  JGD]

 My brother used to be a manager at a Wal-Mart.  Basically, they operate
on the skid-from-Taiwan system.  They have a very fancy barcode
inventory system, continuous datalinks to the main offices in Arkansas,
and all that junk, but basically, it doesn't work too well.  The stores
will sell out of something, and then they're out.  They aren't allowed
to order anything on their own, so they just make excuses until
something shows up.  In some cases, inventory is an "experiment", so you
might see something once, and then never again.  Inventories are also
varied according to region, whim in Springdale, and astrology.

 If you think that's bad, you'd faint if you knew how Waldenbooks or
B.Dalton work.  They literally have NO idea of what they have, is on
order, or on back order.

 AutoZombies are based out of Memphis, and operate much like WalMart,
except they can order stuff from the Memphis depot.  Stock is updated
weekly, but they have no real control of what is kept.
                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 10:22:35 1993
Subject: Re: Time to get a grip (tires)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4985
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <1c-v1ln@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com writes...
> 
>Can anyone share experience switching from Goodyear Eagle STs (read:no traction)
>to BF Goodrich TA radials?   I am considering BFG TA's as replacements and I 
>would like to get better grip.  Will these make a noticeable difference?
> 
In my opinion, BFG Radial T/A's are excellent for traction under acceleration
and braking.  This is do to the soft side walls and fairly soft (when new)
streetable rubber compound.  However, BFG's suck for cornering.
This is due to the soft side walls.  Funny isn't it ?
> 
>----------
>Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)


Steve Cole 

----------
Posted by: emory!rigel.tamu.edu!smc9782 (DEAD DOG)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 12:49:42 1993
Subject: RE: Malibu code breakdown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4988
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

[details about agument over originality of "factory" 4-spd in '78 Malibu 
deleted]

	My 78 Monte Carlo owners manual gives engine and performance specs
fot both the auto and the 4 speed manual. Maybe you could also get the
4 speed in the Malibu since their essentially the same car.

	Pete

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 12:54:56 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4989
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>->      If you have a small block in there now, the 400 will drop in
>-> without any problem. The 400 is identical to just about any other
>-> Chevy SB except for the number of freeze plugs.

>  Some of the last 400s came with four freeze plugs in the usual
>small block location instead of the six plugs the early blocks used.
>I guess Chevy had managed to improve their casting process and wanted to
>eliminate the troublesome plugs.

> FYI, the factory calls them "core plugs".  When the blocks are cast,
>the sand cores are assembled like a giant jigsaw puzzle.  The water
>jacket cores are thin and weak, and require support from the sides to
>keep from breaking when they're hit by molten iron being poured in.
>Since the 400s had no jacketing between the cylinders, there was
>naturally no sand there, so the extra core support was added.  These
>holes are then reamed out and plugged to keep water from running out.
>They don't, and never had, anything to do with water freezing, though
>they'll usually get pushed out if the block does freeze up.

> Anyway, the four-plug 400 blocks are *quite* popular in some racing
>circles.  After all, they look just like 350... or even 305... blocks.
                           

>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

	I guess I didn`t feel like looking up the gory details on a subject
not relavent to the original question. Still the best way to determine from
the ouside if its a 400, aside from looking up the casting numbers, is by the 
number of freeze plugs. Its a good place to start without pulling the head and 
measuring the bores.

	I was burned by this when a freind gave me a so called 400. It had the 
same number of plugs as a 305 or 350, and guess what, it was a 305 (bummer).

	Pete
 

----------
Posted by: emory!ll.mit.edu!psanders (Peter Sanders)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 13:00:02 1993
Subject: Re:  Planning Pont 400 rebuild
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4990
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 Depending on the maintenance over the last 23 years, you might get away 
without all of the grinding you anticipate; in my opinion any material not
ground out now means another rebuild still possible later (like year 2116
or so). I strongly recommend you find a machine shop which is capable of
doing the work needed but also capable of passing up unnecessary work. 
Some places will be perfectly happy to do what you tell them you think you
need. I don't get into the machining steps until they have tanked and
measured the block and crank. That way we all know just what needs doing.
I have lost a lot of wallet ballast once by signing up for the whole
shopping list. 

 I don't think GM went to hardened seats until '71 or '72; I also think
in some cases it took them a few more years to get it right. The stock
hardened seats are done by induction heating of the head as I recall.
They aren't inserts. An earlier head should run you about $50-$100 for
the pair to have the exhaust seats installed. If you entertain notions of
larger valves, the seats should be part of that package. 

 If you get the Real Shop Manual it should have all tolerances for the 
engine components as well as assembly,disassembly and setup info. It's
worthwhile to search for all the aftermarket info you can find, though,
since the shop manuals stop at restoring original performance and give
little insight to what the performance limits and best upgrades might
be. I know there're a bunch of Firebird parts houses out there, and the
places that do GTO stuff might also be good to try since they cover the
earlier years of the 400. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 13:04:54 1993
Subject: Re:  another Ford engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4991
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> So where does the 312 cid motor from the 55-57 Thunderbirds
> fit in?

   The 312 motor started life as the flathead replacement in 1954 as a 
   239 cubic inch machine.  Mercury on the other hand hat a 255 cubic
   inch varient.  This is when Ford/Mercury actually had different
   motors.  It then evolved into the 272, 292, 312.  Production of this
   motor ended in 1962 for the full size models and 1961 for the fairlane.
   The 1962 fairlane had the first small block windsor 221.


                    / \
                   <   ) 
 \==================   ==================/  This is all mine, no one else's.
  \================     ================/   Bill Poudrier  Maynard MA, 01754 
                  /// \\\

----------
Posted by: emory!genrad.com!wdp (William D. Poudrier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 16:51:50 1993
Subject: Re: Planning Pont 400 rebuild
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4992
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <9gcv7s+@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> 
> I've decided it's time to do a complete engine rebuild on my 70 Firebird
> Formula 400.  ...

> 1. Books.  I'd like to get some recommendations about general guides to
> rebuilding an engine.  The auto mags I read seem to have dozens of useful
> tips for doing a quality job.  Are there any books that have most of these  
> suggestions in one place?

I would suggest you call Ames Performance Engineering at 800/421-2637
(orders) or 603/876-4751 (tech line) and get the Firebird catalog
(which is free).  In the back of the catalog there should be a good
literature section (the Full Size and GP catalog has one) that includes
books on Pontiac engine buildup.

Currently on the newsstands around here Peterson Publishing has special
Hot Rod series on engines, on display until the end of this month I
think.  It would be good for orientation, but probably shouldn't be
taken as the last word on engine buildup.  These guys make mistakes
too, and there are manufacturer specific differences that have to be
taken into account.  Also, pick up a Hemmings Motor News for additional
leads on Pontiac vendors.

You might also try the archive of Alt.hotrod as per this excerpt:

	ece.rutgers.edu archives the hotrod and the z-car mailing
	lists.  This is available only via anonymous ftp.  Jialin
	Li is the contact.  jialin@ece.rutgers.edu

for general build up tips.  There were some traffic about the quality of
connecting rods on GM products recently.

> available for the rebuilder.  I plan to rebore the cylinders, grind the 
> crank, and grind the valve seats.  I'd like to receive recommendations for
> other operations that I've read about.  These include align boring the 
> crank journals, align boring the cylinders, balancing the crank, etc.

Align boring the block mains can be avoided if a _straight_ crank
rotates easily and uniformly by hand when installed with the correct
clearances and with engine oil on the bearing surfaces.  If the block
seems to need aligning, try to find a shop that can align hone rather
than bore.  As I understand it, the honing operation avoids moving the
crank centerline towards the camshaft centerline.

Balancing the rotating/reciprocating components is worthwhile, and you
might consider a Fluidamper harmonic balancer.  I haven't used one yet,
but it seems like A Really Good Thing (tm).

[not much to say on balance of questions...]

I would use new motor and transmission mounts, all new water and
possibly vacuum hoses, and verify that your exhaust system is in
excellent condition before dropping in the rebuilt engine.  While the
car is apart, the radiator may be due for service, and it would be
worthwhile the check out the condition of the gas tank and fuel supply
system.

You might also want to consider sending your carb to The Carb Shop or
some similar place that can bring it back from the (probably) very worn
state it is in.

Have you given any thought to freshing up the transmission (assuming it is
automatic)?

-- 
Mark Walker			| "There's no such thing as fast enough!"  
mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu	| 	(Or something to that effect...)     
505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)	|		James Taylor 
Albuquerque, NM			|		_Two_Lane_Blacktop_ 

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 16:58:08 1993
Subject: Re: Comment on "Desert Cooler" radiator
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4993
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>>I'm using a four core from "Desert Cooler".  Works great.  After
>>buying it, I noticed that it is the same radiator as is in my '76
>>Mercury Grand Marquis Wagon (w/460), so you might try a radiator out
>>of a mid seventies big block car.
>>
>>-Bob

I put a new "Desert Cooler" radiator in a 280 Z Datsun I had
and it came apart at the seams after 2 years.
It was under warranty and they replaced it without even looking at the 
old one or asking for it back. I assume that means they
have been having problems. I bought it at Kragen.


Dexter Anderson

[Now you have MY interest, considering I have a Z with a serious overheating
problem.  Is "Desert Cooler" a brand name?  Did you use the stock radiator
or did you have to have new pipe fittings attached?  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Dexter.Anderson (Dexter Anderson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 17:03:52 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4994
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> But to really fool the inspectors you need to internally balance the
-> crank so that you don't have that giveaway cut on the damper and the
-> weight on the flywheel.

 If they're gonna see the flywheel, you're caught already.  In many
cases, though, for engines which retain most of the power/air/accessory
junk, you have to be pretty acrobatic just to see the balancer.  It's a
calculated risk.  Of course, nobody says you can't use a 350 balancer
and put the counterweight inside the pulley. 


-> BTW, speaking of 400s, for a short while Chevy had a large-block 402
-> which is sometimes referred to as a 400.

 Yeah.  Those used to cause endless trouble, as GM variously referred to
them as "396", "400", and "402."  In some year/models, 2V engines were
small block, 4V were big block.  I've seen Chevelles with "SS396" and
"SS402" badges.  The first time I saw an SS402 I did a doubletake.
                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 18:40:00 1993
Subject: request: 69 nova rebuild help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4995
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


greetings:
  i'm looking for general comments on rebuilding a 69 nova.  first
thing to be done is a front-end rebuild.  the manual brakes *have*
to go.  what other vehicles can i swap from?  what should i buy as
a re-built/new & what can be refurbished?  will just re-bushing the
a-arms help tighten up the steering, or will a sway bar be needed
to tighten the front end up?  (this will be for a daily driver, w/
an eye towards possible light rally use)
  what difference would be noticeable between mono- and multi- leaf
rear springs (to replace the stock ones, now dead)?  also, does any
company out there make rear bars for the 69 nova?  so far both the
catalogs i've received have had a blank spot where the 68-69 nova's
should be.  also, recommendations for diameter?
  i've got more questions if anyone wants to try to help...

later,
kc

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 18:56:54 1993
Subject: RE: Ford block series question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4996
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




> Ford makes several different series of engines, the better to confuse
>you with.  



>FE:  332, 352, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428, also 360, 361 and 391 truck, and
>     some other odd sizes

>        These are the old-style big blocks.  They use a "Y" block with
>        the main caps recessed deeply into the block, like a Buick V6.
>        The cylinder heads are very small, with about 1/4 of the "head"
>        actually being part of the intake manifold, which is enormous.
>        The valve cover sits over BOTH the head and a ridge on the
>        intake, like a 2.8 Chevy V6.  For a while, Ford offered a
>        Single Overhead Cam "crate motor" back in the sixties - the
>        fabled Cammer 427.  Shelby actually delivered a few Cobras
>        with overhead-cam 427s.

Every article/book I have read about the Shelby Cobras claims that Shelby did
NOT offer the cammer 427 in his cars.  There are stories that owners did many 
things to their Cobras -- dual Paxton turbochargers, the cammer, etc... but it
was not delivered that way by Shelby.

Russell 

----------
Posted by: "Russell M. King, TRIUMF, (604)222-1047x311" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 19:06:56 1993
Subject: Re:78 Malibu
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4997
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Thanks for all the replys but what I wanted to know was how I go about
finding out if this particular car came with this combo. I realize that
there were cars made w/4 speeds, but with bench seats and trans cooler
radiators?  Can I tell from the VIN?
Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 19:16:06 1993
Subject: Re: scales
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4998
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

      If you want to do it like the pros, get a load cell for a commercial 
weighing system.  The load cells run $200-250 used from electronic surplus
houses like C & H and others (mail me if you need an address).  This gets you a
compression canister with a max load from 500 to 25,000 lbs depending on what
you order.  The canister is about  6 inches tall and 3.5 inches in diameter and
the load is applied to a 1-14 threaded hole in each end of the can or directly
to the end of the canister if you're not real fancy about your setup.  All you
have to do is dig a hole in the driveway, put a piece of steel plate in the
bottom to set the cell on, and bolt another plate on top.  That takes care of 
the mechanicals of the setup.  For the electronics, you need one of the fancy 
$2000 indicator boxes like we use in the lab or you can make do with a surplus 
precision potentiometer box for about $30 and any semi-regulated power supply. 
The load cells are simple strain gage units with a full wheatstone bridge 
internally.  You put a voltage on two opposite corners of the bridge and read 
the output in millivolts on the other corners.  If you want to know more, drop 
me a line and I'll explain how the electronics work.

Steve Johnston
johns_sa@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu

[How 'bout posting some contact information for these surplus outfits.
I have a NICE indicator box scavenged from a DOT weighstation but I don't
have any cells.  Sure would like to find a cheap one.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU!JOHNS_SA
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 19:21:28 1993
Subject: Re: Scales 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 4999
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Ah, but the scale mechanism that John describes might be useful for
things like spring testing setups...

[Probably.  But they're no more accurate than the analog scales so they're
probably not worth the hassles.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 19:26:15 1993
Subject: Re: Bow Tie
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5000
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

X-News: woods alt.hotrod:416

>From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
>Subject:Bow Tie
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 93 16:03:12 GMT
>Message-ID:<+!7tq5+@dixie.com>

> 
>Alright what is the difference between the old fuelly type, angular plug
>type and bow tie?  Did GM change over to these or are they strictly
>aftermarket?  And what about these bow tie blocks?  What makes them
>different?  Or are they just 4 bolt mains on an aluminium casting?
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)


Bow Tie heads are different than fuelly heads. They are aftermarket heads made
by G.M. They are avaible in both cast iron and alluminum, and they also have no
heat risers in them.  Bow Tie blocks are very different fron production blocks
in that they have no water jackets between adjacent cylinders. In other words
they have siameesed cylinders, similar to the 400 block. They are not 4-bolt
mains, they have 2-bolt mains. The reason for this is to simplify the
instilation of splayed 4-bolt caps. As far as I know Bow Tie heads or blocks
have never come stock on a car.


----------
Posted by: emory!woods.ulowell.edu!thibeauls
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 19:31:34 1993
Subject: Re: Comment on "Desert Cooler" radiator
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5001
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 13, 14:12, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: Comment on "Desert Cooler" radiator
>
> >>I'm using a four core from "Desert Cooler".  Works great.  After
> >>buying it, I noticed that it is the same radiator as is in my '76
> >>Mercury Grand Marquis Wagon (w/460), so you might try a radiator out
> >>of a mid seventies big block car.
> >>
> >>-Bob
>
> I put a new "Desert Cooler" radiator in a 280 Z Datsun I had
> and it came apart at the seams after 2 years.
> It was under warranty and they replaced it without even looking at the
> old one or asking for it back. I assume that means they
> have been having problems. I bought it at Kragen.
>
>
> Dexter Anderson
>
> [Now you have MY interest, considering I have a Z with a serious overheating
> problem.  Is "Desert Cooler" a brand name?  Did you use the stock radiator
> or did you have to have new pipe fittings attached?  JGD]
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Dexter.Anderson (Dexter Anderson)
>
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from The Hotrod List



Well, it must be a brand name, because there is no way the radiator
that fit in my wagon could fit in my Z.

-Bob

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 13 19:37:37 1993
Subject: Re: Comment on "Desert Cooler" radiator
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5002
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>>I put a new "Desert Cooler" radiator in a 280 Z Datsun I had
>>and it came apart at the seams after 2 years.
>>It was under warranty and they replaced it without even looking at the 
>>old one or asking for it back. I assume that means they
>>have been having problems. I bought it at Kragen.
>>
>>
>>Dexter Anderson
>>
>>[Now you have MY interest, considering I have a Z with a serious overheating
>>problem.  Is "Desert Cooler" a brand name?  Did you use the stock radiator
>>or did you have to have new pipe fittings attached?  JGD]
>>----------
>>Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Dexter.Anderson (Dexter Anderson)
>> 
JD
I am doing this from memory but what I did was buy a 
NEW radiator from Kragen (Chain here in California).
It said "Desert Cooler" on a sticker
on the side of the radiator. I will try to find the documentation
tonight. 
It was a stock replacement. The only thing I changed was the
mounting because this radiator had 1 more core, 4 -vs- 3 I 
think. (The mounting bolts hit the fins so I had to install the bolts
with the heads in toward the radiator.)

When I replaced the defective one I went back to a 3 core one. It
was a stock Datsun and I did not have any cooling problems.

Dexter

----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Dexter.Anderson (Dexter Anderson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 04:46:16 1993
Subject: Re: 78 Malibu 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5003
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Thanks for all the replys but what I wanted to know was how I go about
>finding out if this particular car came with this combo. I realize that
>there were cars made w/4 speeds, but with bench seats and trans cooler
>radiators?  Can I tell from the VIN?

     From the VIN you'd be able to tell what motor and body style it
came with, and SOMETIMES what tranny it came with.  If it's still the
factory sticker on the rad. support, it might tell you what tranny it
had.   From the code stamped on the motor (if it's the original) you
can often tell.   Motors manuals have a very complete look up of
these.
     Exactly what interior it came with, well, you'd need the build
sheet for it.   I've never seen any other way of telling the EXACT
interior it had.   Try taking out the back seat.   The often leave
them under/in the rear seat.  
     The "trans cooler" radiator is sort of a moot point; they often
put in the auto-trans radiator, instead of having a different side
tank w/o the cooler in it.
     To figure out if it was a factory 4 speed, just look for evidence
of a automatic; wrong steering column, shift indicator in the dash,
non-factory looking hole cut in the floor for the shifter, ect...

I almost bought a '70 Chevelle that they guy swore up and down was a
factory 4 speed.   Everything was right, except for the shifter hole
in the floor.   Looked like someone used a axe and a hammer to cut it.
Yeah right, US quality may not be 100%, but that didn't come from 
GM like that......

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 04:57:11 1993
Subject: Thought you might get a chuckle (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5004
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I recently started reading these automotive related news groups like
> alt.hotrod and rec.autos*.  When I ran across something that I thought
> my wife would be amused by, I'd tell her the story that evening just like
> I had been doing with the newsgroups I read.  Well, for a couple of
> months now thought one of the news groups was:
> 
> 			Wreck.Autos.Tech
> 
> Now, I got a real belly laugh out of this but had to admit, given the
> stuff I drive and the toys I play with, the misunderstanding was
> understandable.

***> Are you suggesting I drive a wreck ??? Moi ??? Hey don't jive me man...
     I'm gonna paint it, real soon. And all one color too, just for a change.

     -Bigfoot.

----------
Posted by: emory!minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU!rxkgre (Geof Evans)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 05:03:43 1993
Subject: Re: Scales 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5005
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

	Ah, but the scale mechanism that John describes might be useful for
	things like spring testing setups...

	[Probably.  But they're no more accurate than the analog scales so 
	they're	probably not worth the hassles.  JGD]

Except that it seems that I can use them as the basis for a homebuilt
rig instead of shelling out the bucks for a prebuilt one. Unless you
know a source for a *cheap* valve spring and/or suspension spring tester?

[Oh, I'm all in favor of building such a device.  I was simply pointing
out that the analog scales are as accurate as the digital ones but without
the hassles of having to rezero.  

A very cheap way to test springs is to simply install a pressure gauge
on a hydraulic jack, say on a press, and calibrate it in lbs.  JGD ]
----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 11:53:36 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5006
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


> Yeah.  Those used to cause endless trouble, as GM variously referred to
>them as "396", "400", and "402."  In some year/models, 2V engines were
>small block, 4V were big block.  I've seen Chevelles with "SS396" and
>"SS402" badges.  The first time I saw an SS402 I did a doubletake.
>                                                     
If I remember right my Dad had a 402 in his 72 Impala.  The label on the
car said 400.  He said that the 402 would blow away the 400.  Was this
due to compression ratios or other things, or does the big block have
some other inherent factor which make it more powerful.  
>----------
Mark W. Blunier
mwbg9715@ucs.cso.uiuc.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!mwbg9715 (Mark Wayne Blunier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 12:00:11 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5007
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> BTW, speaking of 400s, for a short while Chevy had a large-block
> 402 which is sometimes referred to as a 400.  Of course these
> won't necessarily fit into the space where a small block would go.
> Be careful when somebody offers you a 400 and make sure it's what
> you want.

I've never heard anyone refer to a 402 as a 400...  I usually call it
a 396 bored .030 (.032 actually, i think) over.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 12:08:25 1993
Subject: request: 69 nova rebuild help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5008
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> the manual brakes *have* to go.

 Why?  If you have discs the pedal pressure may be a little higher than
you're used to, but you can just swap to a smaller bore master cylinder
to fix that.  I have a chart of GM cylinder sizes around somewhere.

 My '60 has manual drums, and although it's not the usual GM "one toe to
slam the front bumper into the ground" rabid assisted braking, a firm
foot on the pedal can lock up all four wheels even at highway speeds.

 When you add power assist, you lose a lot of brake feel, you lose
clearance in the engine compartment, and you have to limit engine mods
to allow for adequate vacuum, unless you go to a Bendix Hydroboost,
at which point you have to have power steering, or at least the pump,
brackets, and hoses.

 There are cases where power assist is a necessity, but unless you've
changed something pretty far away from stock, there's no need to add
power brakes to your car.


 Power assist can be overdone.  Heck, fifty years ago Chevy used to make
power SHIFTERS!  Yep, the thing on the column just operated a selector
valve.  You'd shift, and it'd use engine vacuum to change gears in the
manual transmission.  Took its bloody time, too.
         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 15:39:40 1993
Subject: RE: Ford block series question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5009
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Every article/book I have read about the Shelby Cobras claims that
-> Shelby did NOT offer the cammer 427 in his cars.  There are stories
-> that owners did many things to their Cobras -- dual Paxton
-> turbochargers, the cammer, etc... but it was not delivered that way
-> by Shelby.

 One of my books - "The Cobra Story" by Shelby, I think - has a picture
of a factory 427 Cammer with a really ugly fiberglass hardtop.  It was
special ordered for drag racing according to the text.  It also
mentions at least one other car was fitted with the Cammer from the
beginning.  Various sources have mentioned Shelby American refitting
Cammers into cars which came in for rebuild.  If your '65 was getting a
little worn, Shelby was always happy to take it back and upgrade it to
'66 or '67 spec.  Probably drives the concours dweebs nuts.

 Shelby also built one car with an all-aluminum 390, which was some sort
of road race prototype engine according to what I've read.  Strange
since Ford was mainly staying with the 289 and 427.  I figure someone
glommed on to some unobtainium factory protoype pieces on their way to
the salvage yard, and had Shelby install the motor instead of whatever
the car was to have come with.

 The Paxtons are superchargers, not turbos, BTW.  Auto superchargers are
just a sideline for Paxton, which is one reason for their on-again,
off-again appearance in the auto world.  Last time I talked to them, the
rep said their largest single customer was the US Navy, who bought
zillions of Paxton blowers for ventilation systems.
                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 15:44:49 1993
Subject: Re:78 Malibu
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5010
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 > 
> Thanks for all the replys but what I wanted to know was how I go about
> finding out if this particular car came with this combo. I realize that
> there were cars made w/4 speeds, but with bench seats and trans cooler
> radiators?  Can I tell from the VIN?
> Frank

Well Frank there are only three systems that I know of.  
	1. Get the vehicle identification number and send it to any
		one of a few companies that will trace it down and
		give you a complete breakdown of how it was delivered
		from the factory.  If you have a breakdown list there
		are a few things you can get out of the number yourself
		like original engine, transmission, body style, and
		color.  Perhaps someone can furnish you with an address
		to get this info.
	2. Look for a factory options plate, usually under the hood that
		codes the major options.
	3. Look for the factory build instructions (paper) usually in
		trunk or glove box that lists all options.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 15:50:22 1993
Subject: Exhaust
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5011
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well the engine is through and sounds quite good.  Its very loud though.
Oh course with open headers I would expect it to be.  Its now time for some
exhaust.  I would like to run the aluminized(?) pipes.  Does anyone know 
about these or have any opinions?  I hear that they are supposed to last 
much longer than regular pipes.  Any other things I should think of?  Also,
what kind of mufflers should I use?  (turbos, etc.?)  And another question:
what size pipes should I run?  If it matters, its a 70 mustang with a 351W,
some slight performance mods (performer intake, holley car, etc.), 2 5/8"
headers w/ 3" collectors.  Thanks.
Tom McClendon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu


----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 17:19:28 1993
Subject: Ford rack and pinion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5012
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 I had the "opportunity" to help a buddy of mine fix his steering problems 
last week. His Pinto was all over the road, due to wear in the linkage and 
loose wheel bearings. Anyhow, I had the steering assembly out on the driveway 
and was kind of impressed with how simple it was. I know lots of folks use
them as the easy way to add steering to their kitmobiles, and I've also 
heard negative, nonspecific comments made about them. 

 Does anybody here have a stong opinion (nahh...) about these units and their
applicability as replacements for the traditional GM trapeziodal iron, or
:O even facts? It looks to me like maybe a 20lb weight savings and maybe
get some road feel in the bargain. What might the downside be? This would 
be a '71 A-body.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 17:24:49 1993
Subject: Re: Scales
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5013
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On the subject of scales, here's the company that sells used load cells,

	C & H Sales Co.
	P.O. Box 5356
	Pasadena, Ca 91117-9988
	1-800-325-9465

[I just called these dudes.  Free catalog is available.  In response to
my query about load cells, the guy said, and I quote, "We have a shitload 
of them".  :-)  JGD]

I've dealt with this company before and their descriptions of equipment in the
catalog is accurate.  In addition to load cells, they have motor of all sizes
and RPM, tons 'o solenoids and solenoid valves, gauges, pumps, transformers,
relays up to huge, switches, SCRs, pressure transducers, laser parts, military
carrying cases, and other odd stuff.  They seem to have a mix of military
hardware, aircraft, and older electronic overstock, most of which is new.

Other surplus firms I know of are:

	Marlin P. Jones & Assoc.
	P.O. Box 12685
	Lake Park, FL 33403-0685
	407-848-8236

They have a more computer/radio orientation to their stock but carry lots of
individual components and a good selection of power supplies

	Herbach and Rademan
	P.O. Box 122
	Bristol, PA 19007-0122
	1-800-848-8001

This catalog is more oriented toward science fair/hobbyist types but has lot of
lasers, new multimeters and test equipment, rechargeable batteries, and lots of
other goodies.

If anyone gets a load cell and decides to hook it up, I have a listing of
wiring diagrams/color codes for almost all makes of load cells along with specs
of driving and output voltages which makes life much easier.  Do not attempt to
open a load cell to figure out how to wire it, this often results in permanent,
unrepairable damage, speaking from past experience.

Steve Johnston
johns_sa@jhuvms.hcf.jhu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!JHUVMS.HCF.JHU.EDU!JOHNS_SA
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 17:34:00 1993
Subject: Tomco Injectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5014
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   Tomco Injectors
I'm looking for some injectors for my Grand National ... last weekend I went
12.06's @ 111 mph, but after analyzing the data I recorded from the scan tool,
I find the car was leaning out, picking up excessive detonation retard and
hurting the MPH.  I really wanted my 11! <*pout*>

Anyway, the popular next step upgrade in the Turbo Regal circles is the Tomco
disc style "red-stripe" injectors which are rated at about 34 lbs/hr @ 45 psi
(I think).  However, nobody seems to have these in stock for a decent price, so
I'm looking for alternatives and/or a source for the red-stripes.

Also, I'm upgrading the stock turbo to a new modified turbo, so I'm going to
start having even more problems very soon ... I need the extra fuel capacity to
take advantage of the greater air flow.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... 3600 pounds of blown Buick V6 ... scary, scaaaarry! ..."


[Eric Webb, webb.eric@epamail.epa.gov, gave me his old injectors when he 
replaced them with larger injectors, an ATR chip and new heads (no further
info on that) on his 86 GN.  He's no longer on the list but you might be 
able to mail to him.   The old injectors are Bosch # 0-280-150-218.  
(this number is on the flange of the injector.) On
my flowbench, they flow 45 lbs/hr of mineral spirits at 39 psi, my standard
test pressure.  Gasoline flows about 10% more.  If the GN runs a different
pressure, let me know and I'll re-run 'em.  If you're interested, I could
also pressure curve the injectors to see if higher fuel pressure would 
help much.  He send the old injectors to me in the boxes from the new ones.  
The new injectors came in Bosch boxes and bear the part number 0-280-150-756.  
I believe Eric told me they were rated at 60 lbs/hr.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 17:44:42 1993
Subject: SWAP SHORELINE
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5015
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   SWAP SHORELINE

     Swap Shoreline  > > >   Sunday,  APRIL 25  < < <  Swap Shoreline

In CA there are a number of swap meets that people flock to: Pomona is big in
the south, Turlock is big in the valley, Pleasanton is big (sometimes) in the
bay area - now there's another big one around - Bill Graham Enterprises went to
Drive Magazine & asked for help to put on big swap meets at the Shoreline
Ampitheatre in Mountain View - there are five a year with the first one this
season coming up next week -

     Swap Shoreline  > > >   Sunday,  APRIL 25  < < <  Swap Shoreline

Shoreline is located on Hwy 101, take the Shoreline Ampitheatre exit, in
Mountain View (near Moffet Field) north of San Jose



----------
Posted by: "Sharen Rund" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 17:55:42 1993
Subject: Re: request: 69 nova rebuild help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5016
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>greetings:
>  i'm looking for general comments on rebuilding a 69 nova.  first
>thing to be done is a front-end rebuild.  the manual brakes *have*
>to go.  what other vehicles can i swap from?  what should i buy as

I'd say your best bet would be to find a '68-'74 Nova with disk brakes.
You'll need the spindles plus all the disk brake stuff that goes on them.
Also needed is the master cylinder and proportioning valve that matches
the disk brakes.  If you want to swap the mono spring for multi-leaf
grab them at the same time. You'll also need to swap the rear-end as
the spring perch is deeper for the thicker multi-leaf spring set up.

It looks like your best bet is to buy a non running parts car with the
stuff you need. Swap back your old stuff and resale the parts car. Much
cheaper than a salvage yard!

'67-'69 Camaro parts will also work for both ends. I also have Chevelle
parts listed for the front brake swap up to '72. These notes are from
stuff I have saved for a future disk brake swap on my Camaro.  It
seems that '67-'69 Camaros and '68-'74 Nova's are basically the same
in the front and rear suspensions, so maybe sway bars from a Camaro
would bolt in to your Nova? 
 

   Bill Drake   -   bill@ecn.purdue.edu

   47 Ford Coupe////454/AT/3:00//// the "Fat Rat"
   69 Camaro convertible////327/AT/2:73
   73 Camaro LT

----------
Posted by: emory!ecn.purdue.edu!bill
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 18:06:19 1993
Subject: Help with noisy valve train
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5017
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I have a 1979 Ford F-150 with a 351M engine.  The engine has an Edelbrock
Performer intake/Holley carb and Blackjack AK500 Headers.  One bank of my 
engine is making a lot of noise, like there is something wrong in the 
valve train.  I have thought of two approaches:  buy a mechanics 
stethoscope and try to determine if it is in the valve train.  If so, then
remove the valve cover and take a look.  The second is to replace the header
gasket, as I have read that a leaking header can sound like a valve
ticking.  Please comment.
Thanks
Larry Tur

----------
Posted by: emory!atlantaga.ncr.com!Larry.Turvy (Larry Turvy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 14 18:12:41 1993
Subject: Re: Planning Pont 400 rebuild
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5018
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Mark,
Thanks for your advice.  I'll look for the Peterson book.  I already
have the AMES catalog and have found them to be a good source for Firebird
parts.  A trans rebuild is in the plans as is a new exhaust system.  I
rebuilt the Q-jet last year.

Fred


-- 
   +------------------------ .signature ----------------------------------+
   | Fred Criscuolo                                (619) 546-4083 (voice) |
   | fcriscuo@ucsd.edu                             (619) 625-4516 (fax)   |
   +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

----------
Posted by: emory!network.ucsd.edu!fred (Fred Criscuolo)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 11:59:31 1993
Subject: 1968 Olds 442 vs the CA smog Nazis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5019
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Here is a brief history of my 1968 Olds 442.
I purchased the car in jan or feb of 1984, with a 455 (not original motor),
with an Offenhauser intake manifold, Holley 780 carb (vac secondaries),
Morosso air cleaner, headers, and the like. It passed the 'smog inspection'
by having the vaccuum advance of the distributor disconnected.

All was happy until the dreaded bi-annual california smog inspection.
I decided that my car would pass inspection.
I called up CARB and they told me lots of things.
They said that I needed a TAC (thermostatic air cleaner),
a PCV (positive crankcase pressure valve), a heat stove, and an
OEM or direct replacement carb and intake manifold.
They said that a swapped engine must be before mar 1984 if it is to use
smog equipment the year of the car, otherwise it must be the smog equipment
the year of the engine (presumabily max the year of the car).

Over time, I had replaced the Offy manifold with an Edelbrock Torquer.
Now Edlebrock does not claim that this is a 'direct replacement', however,
due to Appendix K of the CARB, any manifold will do as long as it has
provisions for all emmission equipmenmt. I only needed a choke stove,
and the manifold has one. Edelbrock neglected to ship the block off plate
for the chock stove, which is also useful to mount a bi-metallic choke
control. They gave me one for free, however, when I mentioned not getting one.

I went to the junk yard several times. I was hunting for a 1968 Olds, so I 
could grab the air cleaner, heat stove, choke and the like.
I got the air cleaner, as well as several others from different years.
The 1968 cleaner hooks to the heat stove in a unique way. I was unable
to remove the heat stove from the 1968, as well as a few other cars, since
they were way-rusted, and it was cramped. I found a bi-metallic choke
control and got that as well, unfortunately, it was incompatable with
the Torquer manifold.

I never got a carb, instead a friend of mine gave me a quadrajet, which almost
certainly came from a certain 1968 Olds 442 junker that I had, 
(which was featured in the Chicago video 'Stay the Night'), since I
needed a front end clip.

I called economy smog in gardenia. They have a universal heat stove.
Just specify the diameter of the air cleaner inlet. Bolts to headers.
I bought this for around $15. It works very nicely with my headers.
The OEM ones would not have worked nearly as well.

I used the Edelbrock recommended bi-metallic choke control and box,
which are roughly 1971 chevy 350 parts. Purchased new at a chevy dealer.

I was concerned that the choke control was not 1968 vintage Olds.
I was told that most anything will work. I was told than most any air cleaner
will work, as long as it fits on top of the quadrajet, and has a TAC.

I decided to use an air cleaner from a 1970 or so Olds station wagon.
It had the air inlet on the correct (less crowded) side, and was in good
shape, and said Olds 455 Rocket on top.

I took the parts to Bob Jennings Dyno tune, and had them rebuild the
quadrajet, and tune it to the car. They also checked the timing, and I 
told them to minimize emissions.

I was concerned that I would fail visual inspection due to the Jacobs
electronics, the Allison distributor, and the non stock engine.

The inspector did not ask me if it was the OEM engine. He just assumed
that it was a 455, since it said so on the air cleaner. He did not
ask for the EO numbers for the Jacobs and Allison stuff (which I had with me).
Turned out it was a little lean at idle. He adjusted it. I passed.

I was worried that he would send me to a referree station, and that I would
need detailed proof that the engine was swapped before mar 1984.
I had no real proof, but I did buy the car with that engine in it, before
mar 1 1984.

I also got my 1987 Shelby CSX smogged there. No problems.
A FOAF (friend of a friend) tells me if you have the stage II computer,
the big throttle body, and a low restriction exhaust, that it won't be
noticed.

	Jeff turbo Deifik	jdeifik@isi.edu		turbo@isi.edu
-------

----------
Posted by: Jeff Deifik 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 12:08:11 1993
Subject: Thought you might get a chuckle (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5020
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> ***> Are you suggesting I drive a wreck ??? Moi ??? Hey don't jive me
-> man...   I'm gonna paint it, real soon. And all one color too, just
-> for a change.

 Faaaar out.  Of all the cars I've had, only a handful have actually had
decent paint.  Most of 'em were in primer, though I admit a couple were
all one color of primer.

 Back when I was in high school I built my first 302 Capri - a '72
model.  Yes, children, there were Capris before the bastard Mustang
thing.  Weighed 2400 pounds on certified scales and went pretty well
with the 3.44 axle.  It needed a little bodywork, and when I was done I
sprayed it with Borden Ultra-Flat Black, which they apparently don't
make any more.  The Ultra-Flat was *really* black!  Later cars were
usually red or gray primer.  

 At one time I had a '75 Kawasaki Mach III, raised compression, Denco
pipes, some porting work.  The paint was peeling off the tank, so I
sanded everything and shot it with flourescent lime green poster paint
from a spray can, then clearcoated it.  It really was flourescent, and
at night, under the street lights, it looked like it glowed in the
dark.  I thought it was plenty tuff, but everyone else said it looked
like radioactive vomit.
                                                                                                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 12:16:02 1993
Subject: sprucing up an old spedo
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5021
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

greetings:
  i've got another question.  i've noticed (in several older cars)
that after 15 to 20 years, the speedo begins to read fast.  on one
of my cars, a change in tire size was sufficient to correct a small
diviance, but the nova reads 80 when it is really doing 60, and it
is already on 225/70r14's.  other than getting a different gear
(which only masks the problem), is there a way of restoring the
speedo?  i plan to keep the car for a few years, and i'd like to
keep the big old 0-120 dash.  any clues for rebuilding or leads for
reproduction mechanisims?
 
thx,
kc

ps - in the 4th line - should have been deviance, and in the last
     line - should have been mechanisms.  sorry 'bout that.

[I have a friend here in Atl who owns a speedo shop.  I've watched them in
action.  They can do whatever it takes to make the speedo right.  That includes
recharging the magnet, rebuilding the mechanism and even installing a gearbox
to fix badly in error problems such as caused by changing rear end ratios.
Usually around $50 or so for basic speedo service and recal.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 12:20:53 1993
Subject: Re: request: 69 nova rebuild help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5022
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you write:
>
>-> the manual brakes *have* to go.
>
> Why?  If you have discs the pedal pressure may be a little higher than
>you're used to, but you can just swap to a smaller bore master cylinder
>to fix that.  I have a chart of GM cylinder sizes around somewhere.

  thanks for the reply.  the answer is mostly psychological.  i'm
still recovering (mentally, no injuries (except monetary)) from
plowing the back of my fiancees abs-equipped car.  almost $2000
in damage to her car and probably as much to mine (no estimates,
i didn't have collision on my other car and this was a new
purchase...).  it was wet out and she panic-stopped.  she later
said that she knew she was in trouble when her abs kicked in.
the biggest physical problem that i have with the current brakes
is the pedal height.  it sits about 4 inches forward of the gas
pedal and it takes quite a bit of effort (and, more importantly, 
time) to get to it, and apply enough pressure to engage the
brakes.  yes, allot of the problem involves lack of familiarity,
and practice will help, but i just have a bad feeling about them.
(just a dumb superstition, probably, but ever since the invention 
of disk brakes, the disparity in stopping ability has been
increasing and increasing and ....)
  as to the clearance and vacuum levels, it's got a straight 6
and i have no plans (or $$$) to go to an 8.  it's just a good
looker (with a bloody nose), not a 12 second screamer. 
  i meant to mention that i was wanting to switch to disks on
the front, but that was inadvertently left out of my previous
message.  any clues as  to what will fit (ie what years and
models to scrounge for)?

later,
kc

----------
Posted by: emory!cs.uah.edu!kking (Ken King)
      (Computer Science Dept., Univ. of Alabama-Huntsville)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 12:29:07 1993
Subject: Performance Engineering
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5023
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>Well guys, today marked an important day of sorts.  I think.  Two years
>ago at 9:00 in the morning, my house and office was burning down and I
>was standing there in my birthday suit watching it happen.  That was the event,
>more than anything else, that got me into this crazy magazine business.
>How time flies when you're having fun....
>
>John

John,
	Can you tell us just what "Performance Engineering" magazine is?
It sounds interesting.  How do I get me one?

Thanks,
Pat

Pat Kindell                        CX500T,KDX200,XL250R
Convex Computer Corp.              DoD # 117  AMA # 613655
3000 Waterview Parkway             WFO # $*&%^_*&%!!
Richardson, TX  75083-3851         kindell@eugene.convex.com

[Guess it has been a while since I've plugged my rag.  In a nutshell, PE
is a magazine aimed at people interested in the high technology end of 
high performance, particularly as applies to the use of computers, electronic
vehicle controls and advanced materials.  Not necessarily limited to cars.  

For example, the current issue just about to be printed contains the second
part of the series on a fuel injection flow bench, a construction article
on a digital direct ignition system and a suspension article, among the 
goodies.  Among upcoming articles is a construction article on building
an electronic fuel injection ECU.

A free sample is available.  send your postal address to perform@dixie.com.
Do NOT send the sample request to this list or to me personally.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!convex.com!kindell (Pat Kindell)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 12:34:44 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5024
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> If I remember right my Dad had a 402 in his 72 Impala.  The label on
-> the car said 400.  He said that the 402 would blow away the 400.  Was
-> this due to compression ratios or other things, or does the big block
-> have some other inherent factor which make it more powerful.

 The heads!  The big block has canted-valve heads with 2.19/1.71 valves
in them, and ports that make small block ports look hypoxic.
Everything else is bigger and stronger, etc.

 That's why we were discussing offset-grinding the 366 truck motors down
to 355 last year.  Some circle tracker classes limit you to 355, all
iron, and have weight limits.  The big block would give you a
substantial edge in power if you could make a good tradeoff for the 200
pounds of extra lard.

 Hey, anyone else remember when Ford used to brag about the Pinto having
"500 pounds more road-hugging weight than any car in its class!"?

                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 12:44:18 1993
Subject: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5025
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I've never heard anyone refer to a 402 as a 400...  I usually call it
-> a 396 bored .030 (.032 actually, i think) over.

 Your local Chevy dealer's parts manuals will refer to them variously as
400s or 402s.  Ah doan know wah.  Frankly, I have no idea why the 402
existed at all, unless they were 396 blocks that got FUBARed on the
boring machine.  You see that often enough, particularly in Chrysler
products (well, maybe Chrysler is a little more honest about it), but to
have so many rejects you can create a whole new engine designation...

 BTW, standard bore 402 pistons are usually cheaper than +.030 396
pistons.  They're usually the SAME part number; the price difference
depends on whether it's oversize or not.  I found this out while helping
a friend do a 386 over the winter.
                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 12:49:07 1993
Subject: Re: An anniversary of sorts
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5026
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

[Talking about the series of articles I wrote about my fire for Midnight
Engineering Magazine.]

-> That be me.  That was a 4 part series.  The first 2 parts are
-> available from my file server as fire.01 and fire.02

 What happened to 3 and 4?

{say, people - this is a hell of an interesting article on how to
 (try to) recover disks, docs, and equipment after it has been
 thoroughly smoked, doused with fire foam, and flooded with water.
 The semi-paranoid fire protection measures I'm building into my
 workshop are a direct result of the one part of the series I got.}
                                                                            
[Thanks.  Issues containing Parts 1 and 2 sold out completely so I've
been offering the text files as a substitute.  Bill Gates (pub of ME)
was selling back issues of the other articles so I had not been competing
with him for the other two parts.  Guess I ought to go ahead and post
those other two articles on the server.  That I just did.  They
are now available as fire.03 and fire.04.  To get them, send mail to
listserv@dixie.com.  Include in the body the statement "send fire.03"
and the same for fire.04.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 12:54:45 1993
Subject: Re: Help with noisy valve train
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5027
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article  you write:
>
>I have a 1979 Ford F-150 with a 351M engine.  The engine has an Edelbrock
>Performer intake/Holley carb and Blackjack AK500 Headers.  One bank of my 
>engine is making a lot of noise, like there is something wrong in the 
>valve train.  I have thought of two approaches:  buy a mechanics 
>stethoscope and try to determine if it is in the valve train.  If so, then
>remove the valve cover and take a look.  The second is to replace the header
>gasket, as I have read that a leaking header can sound like a valve
>ticking.  Please comment.

I have a '70 Toyota Landcruiser FJ40 with a 350 Chevy under the 
hood.  The hydraulic cam is bumpier than stock, the nuts on the rockers 
are old and when the two get together a month after I set the lash
there's a lot of noise from under the hood and once the covers are off 
there's a visible gap between the rocker tip and valve stem on the closed 
valves.  

So, before you buy anything, yank the valve covers and get the lash
set correctly.  

On hydraulic cams, you can set the lash with the valve covers 
off and the engine running by backing off an adjusting nut until
there's clicking, tightening it until the clicking just stops,
and then another 1/4 - 1/2 turn to take up about 1/3 of the 
lifter's "spring action".  I can never tell which lifter's 
clicking, so I don't use this method.

Instead, I put a wrench on one of the harmonic balancer bolts, and 
turn the engine over by hand.  When the exhaust valve is open
open on a cylinder, I set the lash on the intake, tightening 
the nut while turning the pushrod between my fingers until 
I feel a little resistance (this is 0 lash), and then another 
1/2 turn.  With mechanical cams, you can use the same method,
only use an appropriate feeler gauge between the valve 
and rocker, and don't add the extra turn to compress the lifter.


-- 
Boycott USL/Novell for their absurd anti-BSDI lawsuit. | Drew Eckhardt
Condemn Colorado for Amendment Two.		       | drew@cs.Colorado.EDU
Use Linux, the fast, flexible, and free 386 unix       |  

----------
Posted by: Drew Eckhardt 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 13:00:08 1993
Subject: Re:  Help with noisy valve train
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5028
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 Valve train noise is constant with load. Exhaust leaks are most noticeable
under load. If you put it in gear, push the throttle and it gets louder
then it's an exhaust leak. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 13:04:30 1993
Subject: Re: Help with noisy valve train
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5029
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I have a 1979 Ford F-150 with a 351M engine.  The engine has an Edelbrock
> Performer intake/Holley carb and Blackjack AK500 Headers.  One bank of my 
> engine is making a lot of noise, like there is something wrong in the 
> valve train.  I have thought of two approaches:  buy a mechanics 
> stethoscope and try to determine if it is in the valve train.  If so, then
> remove the valve cover and take a look.  The second is to replace the header
> gasket, as I have read that a leaking header can sound like a valve
> ticking.  Please comment.

My guess would be the header gasket, but I'm not familiar with
Ford noises (mainly Chevy).  You might try listening with a long screw
driver (handle against your ear, tip on engine) around the valve cover.
If you can't hear a knocking sound, then its most likely a header gasket.
Header gaskets often don't last very long, anyway.  I had a cheap set
blow out in under 30 minutes (at idle, adjusting rockers of a SBC).

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 13:11:53 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5030
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is what will become a periodic posting of the charter of the hotrod
mailing list.  With all the new participants  we are picking up from
the alt.hotrod group, many have probably not seen this.  It is automatically
posted twice a month, on the 1st and on the 15th.

I wrote the charter in consultation with several people who helped get the
list going.  It has changed several times over the about 2 years the list
has been going.  If you think there needs to be another change, then
by all means bring it up for discussion.  My experience has been that 
most people don't seem to care a whole lot about the charter so 
I try to seek a consensus among those who do.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------

The mailing list hotrod@dixie.com is chartered to provide a
forum for  people interested in high performance vehicles to
exchange ideas and  discuss topics of current interest. This
list is chartered as broadly as possible consistent with  noise
supression.  I believe it to be more constructive to list
unacceptable topics and behavior rather than trying to
ennumerate permissible behavior. 

Unacceptable topics:  

*	Discussions about stock street cars.
*	Discussions about magic elixirs such as Slick 50 with no technical basis.
*	Ford vs Chevy vs ... bashing.
*	Foreign or domestic car bashing.
*	Purely Cosmetic issues concerning stock street cars.  (Buyer's guide
	to fuzzy dice/air fresheners, for example.)
*	Usenet-style flaming of any sort.

Explicitly acceptable is any discussion regarding increasing the performance
of any vehicle.   "For Sale" and other commercial messages, tastefully
done, are permitted.  Please, no hype.

To subscribe to this list, send email to hotrod-request@dixie.com.

Include on the Subject: line the keyword "subscribe" and a return path to 
your site.  Example:  If you are at foo@bar.edu,

Subject: Subscribe foo@bar.edu

If you do not include a return path, my Incredibly Dumb Mail Slave will
try to extract a path from your mail header.  If it does not  work, this
slightly less dumb mail manager (me) will not intervene.  Include a path.

To be dropped from the list, mail to hotrod-request@dixie.com with the 
following subject line:

Subject: drop foo@bar.edu

The address given MUST be EXACTLY the same as the address you used to 
subscribe with.

To post to the list, send mail to hotrod@dixie.com.  Please
include  a meaningful subject line.  Inquiries, and other administrivia should 
be addressed to jgd@dixie.com.   

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The list is echoed to Usenet on alt.hotrod.  You may be able to get this
group at your site.  In order to ensure your post is properly returned
to the list, be sure to mark alt.hotrod moderated and point the mailfile
back to hotrod@dixie.com.

If you get alt.hotrod, I urge you to use that venue instead of subscribing
to the list.  The list membership is approaching 300 which makes things,
ummm, interesting here.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot of people ask if they are missing articles or if they have been 
unsubscribed from the list.  There are easy answers to these questions.
Each article is assigned a sequential serial number that is contained
in the mail header X-sequence:  If you see missing numbers, you know
you have missed articles.  See below for the archive site.

The only two reasons anyone is ever unsubscribed from the list is a) if
that person asks and b) if mail to an address bounces.  Because of the
way mail agents handle undeliverable mail, I get gobs of bounced
messages.  That combined with the volume of the list means I must 
remove an address on the first round of bouncing.  If you are on
an Internet-based machine that uses SMTP, being down for even a 
short time will result in bouncing.  UUCP sites seem to have about a
day of cushion.  The volume of messages on the list is seldom less
than 10 messages a day even on the weekend so if you don't get 
messages for a day, you know you're off the list.  Simply send a new
subscription request to rejoin.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following sites maintain archives:

ece.rutgers.edu archives the hotrod and the z-car mailing lists.  This is
available only via anonymous ftp.  Jialin Li is the contact.  
jialin@ece.rutgers.edu

Hotrod-related GIFs (and others) are archived at ftp.nau.edu.  Unfortunately
the university does not allow incoming anonymous ftp so new GIFs must
be mailed to Milam, met@sunset.cse.nau.edu.  

These archive addresses are noted in the mail headers of each message.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I maintain a mail file server on dixie.com.  This is primarily to support
articles in my magazine, Performance Engineering (TM) but it is also
useful to hotrod list members. Software for articles and other car-related
files are available.  To get a directory, mail to 

	listserv@dixie.com

In the BODY of the message, include the statement 

address foo@bar.com                     <<-- optional.  Where you want it sent
Index

to get a file,

send file_name

If you get empty messages in return, that means the very sorry server
software I'm now using has crashed.  Send another request.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 15:36:14 1993
Subject: Re: Ford rack and pinion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5031
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>> Does anybody here have a stong opinion (nahh...) about these units and their
>>applicability as replacements for the traditional GM trapeziodal iron, or
>>:O even facts? It looks to me like maybe a 20lb weight savings and maybe
>>get some road feel in the bargain. What might the downside be? This would 
>>be a '71 A-body.

Having a Pinto with a small block Ford, the manual rack unit seems to be
pretty durable; I had no problems with it for the 12 years I had it in the
car.  The downside was that for parking and slow speed manuevering you have
to be a weightlifter.  Was pretty good at any speed over 10 MPH - plenty
of road feel.  I switched to a power unit from a '79, and it's MUCH easier
to steer, plus it has a better turning ratio to boot.

No ideas on using it on your A-body, except for the usual chassis fabrication
stuff and measurements - lower arm length, Ackermann, track width, etc.

----------
Posted by: emory!wv.MENTORG.COM!derekd (Derek Deeter)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 15:44:41 1993
Subject: Re: 1968 Olds 442 vs the CA smog Nazis
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5032
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The fact that you purchased the car before 1984 should be just fine.
If they ask, all you can say is that you have not changed the engine
since purchase.  I am glad to read where you have had success.
Unfortunately, the Smog Nazis here in California are moving to take
control of the inspection process to keep the Washington Bubbas happy
which will certainly make it tougher on everybody, besides screwing
a bunch of small business guys who have invested large sums of money
in equipment to do these tests. Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 16:22:59 1993
Subject: Re: Re: engine swap
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5033
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Dave I like your use of "FUBAR"!  Great term! It says a lot in 5 letters!
Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 16:28:01 1993
Subject: Atlanta IMSA Camel-GT this weekend
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5034
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The Atlanta chapter of the IMSA Camel-GT is this weekend at the Atlanta 
International Raceway (the stock car track).  Paddock Tickets for all three days
are available free for the asking from any Atlanta area Toyota dealer.
If you plan on coming, let me know.  I'll be there all three days.

John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 16:33:25 1993
Subject: Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5035
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

With all the discussion about the drawbacks of the Ford "Durasuck"
ignition, I've been wondering what was the right ignition approach for
my AS mustang road race car.

I poked through my new MSD catalog, and I notice that they have
distributors that have a magnetic pickup on them that plugs into th
MSD spark box.  They also have other modules which you can plug in to
vary spark timing by RPM and vacuum.

Doesn't this sound like a better approach than cutting and welding HEI
sytems to run on a Ford?

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 16:39:33 1993
Subject: looking for a rev limiter for a Boss
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5036
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Netters--

  I'm looking for a rev. limiter for a Boss 302.  If anyone
has one they want to get rid of or know where I might
get one please let me know.  Thanks.

			--Kevin

******************************************************
Kevin McIntyre -  Hewlett-Packard, Boise Division
e-mail: kmcintyr@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
address: P.O. Box 15, Boise, ID  83707  M/S 130
fax: 208-323-3457
phone: 208-323-2567

These are my opinions only and don't mean anything
to anyone else... well... ok, maybe to my cat.
******************************************************

----------
Posted by: Kevin McIntyre - HP Boise Printer Division 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 17:43:55 1993
Subject: Re:  sprucing up an old spedo
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5037
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

(JGD commented...)

>[I have a friend here in Atl who owns a speedo shop.  I've watched them in
>action.  They can do whatever it takes to make the speedo right.  That includes
>recharging the magnet, rebuilding the mechanism and even installing a gearbox
>to fix badly in error problems such as caused by changing rear end ratios.
>Usually around $50 or so for basic speedo service and recal.  JGD]

I wasn't going to ask, but now that we seem to have touched on speedo's, my
hotrod Olds :^) seems to be reading fast, and a quick check a week ago while
on the E-W Tollway, locked on 'Cruise', mile after mile I was able to verify
an 11.3% error!  Whoa', I thought, better check these tires, they must be
pretty far off from what they are suppose to be, or I've worn them down nearly
to the rims!  At which time I noticed, my trip odometer was tracking the mile
markers to within 1%!  This was strange to me...

Checked the tires, they're right, and plenty of tread...  Hmmm..  Then, last
night I went out for a cruise and noticed that the instant I turned on the key,
the speedo took a quick jump up and settled right back down to zero..  I was
shocked, this analog readout must be just a basic meter movement!!?  Is it
possible?  I realize I've never bought a new car before, and this is the newest
car I have ('86), when (or did they?) start putting in analog meters for
speedo's?  If this is the case, anyone know where the calibration pot is!?

Phil

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!prg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 17:51:39 1993
Subject: Re: sprucing up an old spedo
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5038
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

A while back I inquired of the local speedo shop (San Diego Speedo Tach)
about changing the scale and recalibrating an 85 MPH speedo to get
100 or 120 MPH full scale.  They said no problem, in fact many people
don't even bother to change the scale but just recalibrate so that
the KPH scale reads in MPH.  I asked what the limits were and was told
that he could make it read 1000 MPH full scale if I wanted.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 15 17:59:02 1993
Subject: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotrod List Charter
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5039
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I maintain a mail file server on dixie.com.

 Oh Mighty Sysadmin, what wonders might we request of dixie.com?

[Everything.... ]

 There's the vendor list, your fire articles, and the Chrysler ignition
schematic - is there a directory?
                                                                                
[Yes.....



Oh, you wanted to actually SEE the directory.  Here's what you get if
you mail to the server and say "index".


Subarchive: PERFORM (path: perform) -- Files:
  perform (1 part, 4439 bytes) --  Information on Performance
	Engineering Magazine (TM)
  help (1 part, 3783 bytes) --  The general system help file
  port11.zip (1 part, 39981 bytes) --  Utility to manipulate
	I/O ports on the IBM PC.  Very handy to poke around things like
	a parallel port.
  fit.zip (2 parts, 65490, 19578 bytes) -- The fuel injector
	flowbench driver software.  Version 1.01  From Vol 1, issue 1
  vendors (2 parts, 65512, 61407 bytes) -- Dave William's
	comprehensive list of hotrod vendors.
  fire.01 (1 part, 39934 bytes) --  My Midnight Engineering
	article on my office fire - part 1
  fire.02 (1 part, 33045 bytes) --  My Midnight Engineering
	article on my office fire - part 2
  fire.03 (1 part, 26889 bytes) -- My Midnight Engineering
	article on my office fire - part 3
  fire.04 (1 part, 21605 bytes) -- My Midnight Engineering
	article on my office fire - part 4
  chry.ps.z (1 part, 52000 bytes) -- Schematic and instructions
	for using Chrysler's ignition module in others cars.
  lp.zoo (1 part, 5045 bytes) -- Very high speed parallel port
    driver -- looks like the PC bios printer service.

JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 16 00:25:19 1993
Subject: Re: Help with noisy valve train
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5041
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I have a '70 Toyota Landcruiser FJ40 with a 350 Chevy under the 
> hood.  The hydraulic cam is bumpier than stock, the nuts on the rockers 
> are old and when the two get together a month after I set the lash
> there's a lot of noise from under the hood and once the covers are off 
> there's a visible gap between the rocker tip and valve stem on the closed 
> valves.  

1st, if it is the nuts, why not buy some new ones?  You shouldn't need
touch those more than a few times in the life of an engine...
2nd, are you sure the valve springs aren't binding?
 
> On hydraulic cams, you can set the lash with the valve covers 
> off and the engine running by backing off an adjusting nut until
> there's clicking, tightening it until the clicking just stops,
> and then another 1/4 - 1/2 turn to take up about 1/3 of the 
> lifter's "spring action".  I can never tell which lifter's 
> clicking, so I don't use this method.
> Instead, I put a wrench on one of the harmonic balancer bolts, and 
> turn the engine over by hand.  When the exhaust valve is open
> open on a cylinder, I set the lash on the intake, tightening 
> the nut while turning the pushrod between my fingers until 
> I feel a little resistance (this is 0 lash), and then another 
> 1/2 turn.  With mechanical cams, you can use the same method,
> only use an appropriate feeler gauge between the valve 
> and rocker, and don't add the extra turn to compress the lifter.

I usually use the latter method when I first put an engine together,
and so far, it has never gotten me even close.  The valves are always
too tight when I do it this way...  sometimes as much as 3 turns.  This only
applies to hydraulic lifter, btw.  Mechanical I set 'em to cold specs,
run it, and then adjust them to hot specs.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 16 00:32:12 1993
Subject: Chrysler Engine Codes ???
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5042
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


	I've got two '86 Lancers giving me two codes each. The first
is a 2.5L automatic that idles like crap. It is giving out codes 13
and 51. My book is 320 miles away, so I am looking for any kind of help.
The owner of that car just had a flex-plate put in, and just recently
I changed his air and fuel filters. Both of which were pretty crusty.
	The other car is mine. Also a 2.5L, but with a 5-speed. I bought
the car with a high idle problem, and am looking for a fix. It is giving 
codes 15 and 37. I believe 15 is for the distance sensor (which when faulty
will cause high idle), but I just replaced that. I was told that 37 is
for the shift light (which is vacuum actuated and would cause the car to
idle high if faulty via vacuum leak) well, my shift light could be bad,
I never shift to it, but it does look off. 
	I would appreciate it if someone could help me out with these 
trouble codes, or give me some new directions to search. Thanx!

						Jason Mopar Trotter

[This isn't hotrodding so please reply in email.  Thanks  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!nova.gmi.edu!trot3702 (Jason Mopar Trotter)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 16 00:40:53 1993
Subject: Re: request: 69 nova rebuild help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5040
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

  
	I just got done restoring a 69' camaro about a three years ago.  The 
	disk brakes of the camaro will fit the nova.  I would advise you to
	by a car with disk brakes for parts, this is what I did otherwise it
	will cost a lot to buy all the parts needed to switch to disk brakes.

	A good source for parts is Harmon's Chevrolet Restorations Parts,
	highway 27 North, Geneva, Indiana 46740 . They carry Nova and camaro
	parts.

	The rear sway bat of a camaro will fit a nova.  I would also put on 
	multi leaf rear spring unless you want the rear to sag.  But you might
	want to check out the new fiberglass rear springs for the camaro they
	are lighter and have more spring ratio.

	If I can help you more email me at css31271@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

					Chris Sayre

----------
Posted by: "Christopher S. Sayre" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 16 00:41:25 1993
Subject: Cool Flathead Ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5043
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

*>>> Hey guys...we need a non-vacumn advance distributer for our 8BA flatmotor
     'cause we're whacking two holley's (97 replica) on an Offenhauser manifold
     and we don't have any vacumn takeoff on the carby's...just an out for the
     wipers off the manifold (not recommended for ignition advance) so we are
     wondering what the wisdom of the list has to offer...a magneto for a  daily     (street) driver ??? Or a modified later smallblock item ? Please get back
     to us...our baby needs us and we need it ! 

                                              -Geof an Anita :'53 Ranchero

----------
Posted by: emory!minyos.xx.rmit.OZ.AU!rxkgre (Geof Evans)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 16 13:38:01 1993
Subject: Excedrin FUBAR #436
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5044
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Last night I "improved" the software that runs the file server here at
dixie.com.  As a result, this morning I got to reload it from backups. :-(
Net result was that if you sent a request to listserv@dixie.com yesterday
or last nite and have not received a reply, you probably never will.
You'll need to send your request again.

One side benefit of all this monkeying around is I think I've found 
why this thing randomly aborted itself.  I think it is fixed now.

Final note: The FIT (fit.exe) software that accompanies the fuel
injection flowbench in my sample edition is about to be upgraded to
version 2.0.  I rewrote it essentially from scratch for the current
edition of the mag, adding a bunch of features and fixing a bunch of bugs
Very heavy testing has failed to turn up any significant bugs this time (keep
the fingers crossed).  The new version will be on the system by Monday.

John

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 17 01:36:28 1993
Subject: 402 vs. 400 Chevy
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5045
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Where was a question posted on why the 402 big block would blow away
the 400 small block.

I have a 1972 Chevy Caprice with a 400 small block.  It has a bad hesitation
problem, and for that reason alone, I would say a 402 would blow me away.  If
anyone has a solution to to hesitation problem, please E-mail me directly.

As for engine specs, this is right out of the 1972 Chevrolet service manual:

Engine | CID | bore  | stroke | compression | carburetor |   H.P.   |  torque
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LF-6   | 400 | 4.125 |  3.75  |    8.5:1    |  2 bbl     | 170@3400 | 325@2000
LS-3   | 402 | 4.125 |  3.76  |    8.5:1    |  4 bbl     | 210@4400 | 345@3200

David Nieters
University of Minnesota
daven@vx.cis.umn.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!vx.cis.umn.edu!daven (David Nieters)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 17 01:46:17 1993
Subject: Re: 402 vs. 400 Chevy
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5046
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

daven@vx.cis.umn.edu (David Nieters) writes:

>Where was a question posted on why the 402 big block would blow away
>the 400 small block.

...

>As for engine specs, this is right out of the 1972 Chevrolet service manual:

>Engine | CID | bore  | stroke | compression | carburetor |   H.P.   |  torque
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>LF-6   | 400 | 4.125 |  3.75  |    8.5:1    |  2 bbl     | 170@3400 | 325@2000
>LS-3   | 402 | 4.125 |  3.76  |    8.5:1    |  4 bbl     | 210@4400 | 345@3200

This 1972 info dates from after GM's 1971 unilateral disarmament in the HP
wars, so all the engines are low-compression.  Since a 402, a.k.a. "big-block
400", a.k.a. "4-bbl 400", is just an overbored 396 (as noted in several earlier
postings), there were probably some high-compression 1970 versions just as there
were 396's, whereas all (small-block) 400's had low compression.  Moreover,
all 400's until about 1975 had 2-bbl carbs; 396's came in both 2-bbl and 4-bbl
versions, but my understanding is that 402's (whether they were called 396's,
400's, or 402's) all came with 4-bbl carbs.  I only have data on full-size
Chevies (no high-compression 402's available, and none of the highest-power
396's (up to 375HP, I think...?)), but an indication of the effect of the
extra compression and breathing ability (including 2.19"/1.72"(?) vs.
1.94"/1.60" valves (a peculiar combination found only on 1970 400's, I'm told),
oval-port heads, and a better rod/stroke ratio), with mild cams, can be seen
by comparing the figures below (output figures are gross, whereas 1972's
above are net):

Year | CID | bore  | stroke |  rod  |  comp.  | carb. |   H.P.   |  torque
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1970 | 400 | 4.125 |  3.75  | 5.565 |  9.0:1  | 2-bbl | 265@4400 | 400@2400
1968 | 396 | 4.094 |  3.76  | 6.135 | 10.25:1 | 4-bbl | 325@4800 | 410@3200
                              ^^^^^
                              ...right?  I'm a mouser, not a rat fink...

--Mark Looper
"Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"

----------
Posted by: emory!cco.caltech.edu!looper (Mark D. Looper)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 17 10:42:38 1993
Subject: Re: Ford rack and pinion 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5047
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Thu, 15 Apr 93 15:04 EDT
> From:  hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
> 
>


>Having a Pinto with a small block Ford, the manual rack unit seems to be
>pretty durable; I had no problems with it for the 12 years I had it in the
>car.  The downside was that for parking and slow speed manuevering you have
>to be a weightlifter.  Was pretty good at any speed over 10 MPH - plenty
>of road feel.  I switched to a power unit from a '79, and it's MUCH easier
>to steer, plus it has a better turning ratio to boot.

If you go up to '85 and newer 5.0L V8 Mustangs (and T-Birds probably), you
can get a better (faster) 15:1 ratio.  The older and all 4-cyl still use
the 20:1.  You can also adjust the "lightness" (less road feel), or
"heavyness" by swapping (or filling or drilling) the restrictor in the
pump/hose connector.  The more fluid you pump, the lighter the steering, but
the hotter it (the fluid) gets.  I like the heavier steering, so I run the
20:1 restrictor with the 15:1 rack.  Some autox guys run very little
restriction for very quick steering.  If for some unknown reason you want
manual steering, you can run it without a pump.

I have had several cars with hundreds of thousands of "normal" driving on
these racks, and never had a problem.  Of course, as soon as I say this
there will be someone that responds and has had nothing but problems :-).

>No ideas on using it on your A-body, except for the usual chassis fabrication
>stuff and measurements - lower arm length, Ackermann, track width, etc.

I am surprised how often I see these in "custom" applications, so they must
be fairly easy to adapt to suit your needs.

I almost forgot.  In later model ('88+ maybe?) racks, Ford installed steering
stops (to keep those big fat tires from rubbing the chassis :-).  They are
under the bellows and easily removed if the rack does not seem to have
enough travel for your application.

>----------
>Posted by: emory!wv.MENTORG.COM!derekd (Derek Deeter)
> 


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 17 10:54:43 1993
Subject: Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5048
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> I poked through my new MSD catalog, and I notice that they have
-> distributors that have a magnetic pickup on them that plugs into th
-> MSD spark box.  They also have other modules which you can plug in to
-> vary spark timing by RPM and vacuum.
->
-> Doesn't this sound like a better approach than cutting and welding
-> HEI sytems to run on a Ford?

 That's fine, as long as something is taking care of the spark curve,
like a knock sensor.  Otherwise, the Ford distributor puts you through
grief trying to dial in an advance curve - unless you like building
ships in bottles, you have to pull the damned distributor and take it
apart for each spring or weight change.  With the HEI, you just pop the
cap and there it all is.

 I just noticed there's a place in Memphis selling Ford distributors
with HEI tops.  They talk all around it, but it's pretty obvious it's an
HEI.
                                                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 17 23:58:56 1993
Subject: Mustang or Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5049
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I'm trying to decide want would be a better car to buy .  I want power
    but don't want to go broke. I like both cars and would like to buy
    one new. I would be thankful for any suggestions anyone could give
    me.

         Terri

[Go drive them both and then decide.  That's the only good way to select a 
car. JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!uicvm.uic.edu!U30943
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 18 00:07:49 1993
Subject: Re: 402 vs. 400 Chevy
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5050
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>5.565
>6.135

 My source shows 6.125, but yeah, the big blocks use a pretty short rod.
 That's about the same size as a small block Chrysler rod.
                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 18 00:12:18 1993
Subject: Re: Ford rack and pinion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5051
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> 20:1 restrictor with the 15:1 rack.  Some autox guys run very little
-> restriction for very quick steering.

 Um.  I had a very hard time explaining this to a friend of mine, and he
still doesn't quite believe me.

 Jay's Corvette has something like 2.2 turns lock to lock.  It drives
like a go-kart.  He thinks it has quick steering because he can bounce
the rack off the left and right bump stops with a couple of yanks on
the wheel.  Unfortunately, the car can't change direction that rapidly,
so the steering wheel is more like a giant volume control than a
directional control.

 A given car can only respond so fast to steering input, and after that
all you're doing is scrubbing off rubber.

 My '72 Capri autocrosser is 3.5 turns lock to lock - "slow" steering -
but just a flick of the wrist can have you chasing your own rear bumper.
It's extremely sensitive on the highway... sensitive enough that you
MUST keep your attention on the road, or the car will wander away.
Steering input is absolutely linear.  Most later cars use variable ratio
steering, with a big dead spot in the middle, and then all of the sudden
the wheels slam to the side.  If you're driving a barge on crummy street
tires, this is OK, but for precision pointing through a slalom it sucks
road kill.  Most people, however, have never driven anything except
variable-ratio steering, and they think it's good, not knowing any
better.

 Quick or slow steering isn't how fast the road wheel is geared to the
steering wheel, it's how fast the car changes direction to follow the
road wheel.
                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 18 07:06:16 1993
Subject: Re: Mustang or Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5052
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> I'm trying to decide want would be a better car to buy .  I want power
>     but don't want to go broke. I like both cars and would like to buy
>     one new. I would be thankful for any suggestions anyone could give
>     me.
> 
> [Go drive them both and then decide.  That's the only good way to select a 
> car. JGD]

If I could just get a new Mustang with the Chevy LT1... :) And a GM steering
column.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 18 22:46:16 1993
Subject: Re: Mustang or Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5053
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> If I could just get a new Mustang with the Chevy LT1... :)

 Yeah.  Chevy's been sticking the 350 in the Camaro for ages, and Ford
keeps wimping around with the 302.  They have not one, not two, but
THREE 351W crate motors, but so far I haven't heard a believable excuse
as to why at least one isn't available in the Mustang.  Looks like
they're giving up entirely.  Hell, the injected 460 will practically
fall in there, and that'd give the Bowtie Brigade a collective hernia,
but nooooooo......

 Hey, am I the only one who thinks the new Camaro looks like a Geo
Storm?  All those aero turdmobiles look alike anyway, but this is
ridiculous.  Hmm... maybe the insurance company could be fooled by a
couple of Geo badges?
                                                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 19 03:09:14 1993
Subject: 402 vs. 400 Chevy
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5054
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Where was a question posted on why the 402 big block would blow away
the 400 small block.

I have a 1972 Chevy Caprice with a 400 small block.  It has a bad hesitation
problem, and for that reason alone, I would say a 402 would blow me away.  If
anyone has a solution to to hesitation problem, please E-mail me directly.

As for engine specs, this is right out of the 1972 Chevrolet service manual:

Engine | CID | bore  | stroke | compression | carburetor |   H.P.   |  torque
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LF-6   | 400 | 4.125 |  3.75  |    8.5:1    |  2 bbl     | 170@3400 | 325@2000
LS-3   | 402 | 4.125 |  3.76  |    8.5:1    |  4 bbl     | 210@4400 | 345@3200

David Nieters
University of Minnesota
daven@vx.cis.umn.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!vx.cis.umn.edu!daven (David Nieters)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 19 10:36:47 1993
Subject: Re: 402 vs. 400 Chevy
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5055
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> David Nieters wrote
> 
> Where was a question posted on why the 402 big block would blow away
> the 400 small block.
> 
> I have a 1972 Chevy Caprice with a 400 small block.  It has a bad hesitation
> problem, and for that reason alone, I would say a 402 would blow me away.  If
> anyone has a solution to to hesitation problem, please E-mail me directly.
> 
> As for engine specs, this is right out of the 1972 Chevrolet service manual:
> 
> Engine | CID | bore  | stroke | compression | carburetor |   H.P.   |  torque
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> LF-6   | 400 | 4.125 |  3.75  |    8.5:1    |  2 bbl     | 170@3400 | 325@2000
> LS-3   | 402 | 4.125 |  3.76  |    8.5:1    |  4 bbl     | 210@4400 | 345@3200
> 
comparing HP at different RPM can be quite misleading.  Horspower is basicly
torque multiplied by RPM with a constant factor also applied so when you try
and claim one engine or the other produces more horsepower you must have to 
compare them at there peak, or at the same rpm's.  Actually either of these
engines are capable of an easy 5,000 RPM's and if torque were to remain 
constant up to 5,000 RPM's then the 400 would give 250 HP while the 402 would
give 238 hp.  However the 400 with the 2 barrel carberator would probably
have a torque drop due to a lack of fuel at that RPM's (unless thay had a 570
CFM 2 barrel) so these engines could be a lot more equally matched.  What
would be a better comparison would be if they both were 4 barrel carberated
and then evaluating the entire power curve.  When you go back you find the GM
played games in there hp ratings to assure the the numbers came out the way
they wanted them.  Mainly rating engine horsepower at lower RPM's than where
they produced peak HP.  This is especially true when they did not want to exceed
425 HP so they lowered the RPM`s they they rated the engines at.  They also
played these games when the big blocks first cam out to assure they were 
higher rated than the small blocks.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 19 10:42:15 1993
Subject: new camaros
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5056
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

->  Hey, am I the only one who thinks the new Camaro looks like a Geo
Storm?  All those aero turdmobiles look alike anyway, but this is
ridiculous.  Hmm... maybe the insurance company could be fooled by a
couple of Geo badges?


 I was putting it as a cross betwwen a Geo Storm, and a 300ZX.

----------
Posted by: emory!resdgs1.er.usgs.gov!mfugazzo (Mark Fugazzotto)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 19 13:05:29 1993
Subject: Re: Ford rack and pinion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5057
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 Is there any way to modify a variable-ratio rack or box to be more
linear, or to tailor the curve? I figure the basic machanism is pretty
linear itself - how is it made nonlinear, just the degree/profile of
assist or by the geometry of the linkage?

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 19 13:25:52 1993
Subject: Holley idle restrictions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5058
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I am installing a 34-6 kit (holley secondary metering plate to metering
block conversion) and the new metering plate has no idle restriction
in the idle delvery circuit. Can someone tell me where I can get these
brass plugs or what size is needed to fill the whole?
Does anybody from Holley inc. read this post?
 
thanks

----------
Posted by: emory!tamvm1.tamu.edu!X128CB (Chuck Braden)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 19 13:29:25 1993
Subject: Re: Mustang or Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5059
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <1fjvk3k@dixie.com> you write:
>
>I'm trying to decide want would be a better car to buy .  I want power
>    but don't want to go broke. I like both cars and would like to buy
>    one new. I would be thankful for any suggestions anyone could give
>    me.
As a life long mustang fan I hate to say this, but if you want a new one
right now the Camaro is probably the better car (I haven't driven one,
but the technical specs look good). Remember that the current Mustang is
based on a 10 year old platform. I think the Camaro runs a bit more,
but the bang/$ is probably good. If you can wait a few more months
for the new mustang, you can make a apples to apples comparison by
looking at the new mustang.

Good luck!
-jeffreyr-

----------
Posted by: emory!uts.amdahl.com!jeffreyr (Jeff Reichenberg)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 19 13:35:46 1993
Subject: Re: new camaros
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5060
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Mon, 19 Apr 1993, The Hotrod List wrote:

> ->  Hey, am I the only one who thinks the new Camaro looks like a Geo
> Storm?  All those aero turdmobiles look alike anyway, but this is
> ridiculous.  Hmm... maybe the insurance company could be fooled by a
> couple of Geo badges?
>  I was putting it as a cross betwwen a Geo Storm, and a 300ZX.

It does look like a geo from the front, but look anywhere else and there
is no mistakin' it for a Camaro...
plus with the GM "same car" different nameplate, just go to Pontiac and
find a much different front facia...

-Rich


      "If a tree falls on your head in the forest, but
       It doesn't make a sound, you still feel it... "      
                
 


     Feel The Bass go BOOM! 


----------
Posted by: "It's Me........................................................." 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 19 15:53:20 1993
Subject: Desert Cooler Radiator
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5061
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Just saw an ad in Street Rodder for U.S. Radiator who proudly claim to be 
manufacturers of Desert Cooler Radiators. If there's still any interest I can
post the address and phone number. 

Jeff Armfield
cr00jsa@ctccummins.cummins.com

----------
Posted by: emory!ctccummins.cummins.com!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 19 16:36:44 1993
Subject: Re: Mustang or Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5062
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article 020120U30943@uicvm.uic.edu,  () writes:
> I'm trying to decide want would be a better car to buy .  I want power
> 
>     but don't want to go broke. I like both cars and would like to buy
> 
>     one new. I would be thankful for any suggestions anyone could give
> 
>     me.
> 
>          Terri


Alot depends on your budget.
The Mustang 5.0 LX is probably your cheapest performance.
The G.M. car is going to give you leading edge performance, handling and
braking. I would take tha Firebird Formula over the Camaro Z28 in the looks
and performance, and i think the Formula is cheaper????? It is a better looking
car.
Also, the Mustang is at the end of its body-style life, the Firebird/Camaro is
at its start, so your NEW car will look new longer(if you can afford it).

That's my .02 worth without getting into Ford vs. GM.

rjm@els.cray.com

----------
Posted by: emory!cray.com!rjm (Roger Mrdutt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 07:44:33 1993
Subject: Re: Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5063
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 17, 10:18, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Ignition
>
> -> I poked through my new MSD catalog, and I notice that they have
> -> distributors that have a magnetic pickup on them that plugs into th
> -> MSD spark box.  They also have other modules which you can plug in to
> -> vary spark timing by RPM and vacuum.
> ->
> -> Doesn't this sound like a better approach than cutting and welding
> -> HEI sytems to run on a Ford?
>
>  That's fine, as long as something is taking care of the spark curve,
> like a knock sensor.  Otherwise, the Ford distributor puts you through
> grief trying to dial in an advance curve - unless you like building
> ships in bottles, you have to pull the damned distributor and take it
> apart for each spring or weight change.  With the HEI, you just pop the
> cap and there it all is.
>
>  I just noticed there's a place in Memphis selling Ford distributors
> with HEI tops.  They talk all around it, but it's pretty obvious it's an
> HEI.
>
>
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>
>
>
>-- End of excerpt from The Hotrod List



Yes, I talked to these guys.  The seem to know what they are talking
about.  They have a fair amount of roundy-round racing experience.

HOWEVER, you tell them what you application is, and they set up the
curve.  They say that the curve is not "user adjustable".  They did
say that they would recurve it for free if I wasn't satisfied.

I think that this is what I will run on my AS car.

-Bob



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 07:53:46 1993
Subject: Re: Ford rack and pinion 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5064
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Date:  Sat, 17 Apr 93 20:18 EDT
> From:  hotrod@dixie.com (Dave Williams)
> 
>
>-> 20:1 restrictor with the 15:1 rack.  Some autox guys run very little
>-> restriction for very quick steering.

> Um.  I had a very hard time explaining this to a friend of mine, and he
>still doesn't quite believe me.

	<...discussion of good/bad steering deleted...>

> Quick or slow steering isn't how fast the road wheel is geared to the
>steering wheel, it's how fast the car changes direction to follow the
>road wheel.
>                  

Bad word choice (should have been "light", not "quick"), and I certainly
agree with everything you said.  I guess I should have just stated the
facts and forgot the examples.  1.) there are different rack ratios,
2.) they are fixed ratio racks, 3.) factory used different sized fluid
restrictors to limit boost depending upon ratio, 4.) the boost is adjustable
to suit your requirements.

I have helped a couple of good autox drivers adjust their steering to
suit their needs.  Their problem with the 15:1 ratio was that they
could not "flick" the wheel, so we drilled out the restrictors to
give them more boost (my "everything is adjustable" example :-).  Like you
said, on the highway these modifications require your absolute attention.
This is all I know.  I just help build 'em, not drive 'em.



	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 08:11:53 1993
Subject: Brake line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5065
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


This isn't a "real" hotrod question, but any number of
y'all have probably built your own rod and can answer
this:

I need brake line tubing - that's the solid steel lines -
 along with fittings. 

Anyone know of a supplier of long lengths of tubing 
 and/or fittings?

Problem is, the local shops will only sell premade lines 
 (with flares and fittings), with a maximum length of 60".
 I have a few runs of more than 90", and I prefer not to 
 use compression fittings to join 2 lengths if I can avoid it.

Thanks,
Mike
mrmike@uiuc.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!geta.life.uiuc.edu!mrmike (Mike McCaughey)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 08:18:07 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5066
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Path: cwis!mgolden
From: mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu (Brian Golden)
Subject: 350 Chevy hesitation.....
Message-ID: 
Sender: news@news.unomaha.edu (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Date: Tue, 20 Apr 1993 05:42:30 GMT
Lines: 16

Okay, here's the situation.... I hav a '79 Regal that I dropped a '78 350
in.  It has a TH350 tranny, and stock 10-bolt posi rearend.  Cyclone headers
and dual turbo mufflers.  4 bbl. quadrajet that I just replaced the float on.
Well, enough background.

Anyway, any time that I step on the gas quickly (read: stomp on it), the
engine hesitates badly.  I was thinking that this might be the accelerator
pump putting too lean of a charge or too rich of one into the engine.  The
timing is set right, and there are no vaccume leaks (that I know of).  All
teh carb linkage seems to be working fine... Doesn't make any difference if
the engine is warm or cold... Anyody have any ideas?  Thanks.

--
                                 - Mike Golden -
                            mgolden@cwis.unomaha.edu
                        "Keep honking... I'm reloading."

----------
Posted by: emory!dns.unomaha.edu!news (UNO Network News Server)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 08:22:37 1993
Subject: Re: Mustang or Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5067
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>  Hey, am I the only one who thinks the new Camaro looks like a Geo
> Storm?  All those aero turdmobiles look alike anyway, but this is
> ridiculous.  Hmm... maybe the insurance company could be fooled by a
> couple of Geo badges?

That was my exact thought almost...  both my mother and my sister have geo
storms.  Maybe I should get a new camaro?

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 11:32:59 1993
Subject: Re:  Brake line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5068
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 I've seen brake line advertised by the roll; can't remember just where. A
mag like Cars & Parts or other restoration-oriented, advertising-heavy
magazine should have enough leads.

 Brake lines use a double flare (the end is folded in so the flare has two 
layers and the outside becomes the inner sealing face) and in all my tool
shopping, scrounging and scavenging I've yet to find a double flaring 
tool. I don't think either single flare or compression unions will stand up
to high pressure as well as the double flare.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 11:38:13 1993
Subject: mixing your own gas (FAQ)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5069
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Sorry about this posting, I know it has been discussed
before but I have a high compression (11:1) older
(not sure if it has hardened valve seats) auto that 
I would like to add octane and lead to.  The few methods
I know about are:

1) a product called Lead Supreme 130 (someone recommended
   on this group) which increases octane and lead content
   using TEL (at a price)

2) the auto store stuff (probably not worth the money, comments?)

3) I can still get leaded gas here in Idaho but does it have enough
   for the older engines?

and the unknown question

4) air-craft fuel (can it be used, what porportions, hazards, etc.?)


Also can you purchase the chemicals yourself (by other names) and mix
them yourself (ie. I seem to remember someone stating that toluene can
be bought at paint stores?).  

As you can see (or read), I could use some help here.





				--Thanks,
					Kevin.



******************************************************
Kevin McIntyre -  Hewlett-Packard, Boise Division
e-mail: kmcintyr@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
address: P.O. Box 15, Boise, ID  83707  M/S 130
fax: 208-323-3457
phone: 208-323-2567

These are my opinions only and don't mean anything
to anyone else... well... ok, maybe to my cat.
******************************************************

----------
Posted by: Kevin McIntyre - HP Boise Printer Division 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 14:41:40 1993
Subject: Re:  Brake line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5070
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

James Swonger writes:
> in all my tool shopping, scrounging and scavenging I've yet to
> find a double flaring tool.

Eastwood carries a decent one, but I think that it is made by KD Tools?

Brandon Dixon

[Double flares are also the rule for refrigeration work.  I got mine
from my friendly local refrigeration supply store.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: Brandon Dixon 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 14:46:53 1993
Subject: Re:  Brake line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5071
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

        Reply to:   RE>> Brake line
[... Brake lines use a double flare (the end is folded in so the flare has two 
layers and the outside becomes the inner sealing face) and in all my tool
shopping, scrounging and scavenging I've yet to find a double flaring 
tool.....
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)...]

Good ol' J.C. Whitney sells a flaring kit with the double flare adapters.  I
used a friend's when I put a line lock on my GN and three other turbo Regals in
my Buick club.  It wasn't a work of art, as far as tools go, but it worked.  As
long as you don't do brake lines for a living, it should be good enough for the
occaisonal use.  I think he bought the basic flaring tool for around $15-20 and
spent another $5-7 for the double flare adapters.

I did a couple Gran Sports in the club about a month later and borrowed one
from a muffler brake shop (they do alot of exhuast work for the club) and it
was a much sturdier tool.  However, being a Snap-On, it was alot more $$$$ as
well!

For what it's worth ....

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: "... 3600 pounds of turbo Buick V6 ... scary, scaaarrrry! ..."
 
----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 14:51:53 1993
Subject: Re: Re:  Brake line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5072
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have seen several street rod shops in advertisements in mags advertising
the rolls of brake line.  The double flaring tools are available across
the counter at any full service auto parts store.mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 14:57:06 1993
Subject: Re:  Brake line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5073
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 20, James Swonger wrote:

>  I've seen brake line advertised by the roll; can't remember just where. A
> mag like Cars & Parts or other restoration-oriented, advertising-heavy
> magazine should have enough leads.
> 
>  Brake lines use a double flare (the end is folded in so the flare has two 
> layers and the outside becomes the inner sealing face) and in all my tool
> shopping, scrounging and scavenging I've yet to find a double flaring 
> tool. I don't think either single flare or compression unions will stand up
> to high pressure as well as the double flare.

Amen on this topic. The only fittings to use for brake plumbing are
either SAE double flare, ISO metric (bubble) flare, or preferably AN
37deg single flare. And the only hard line to use is real honest to
Gawd Bundyweld or the equivalent- you can get it in 20 foot rolls from
many vendors, such as Pegasus, Aircraft Spruce, and your friendly
neighborhood dirt-track store, for about $8. I always trade at the
local circletrack hangout, primarily because I like the people, and
secondly because you can't beat the prices.

_Never_ use compression fittings for brake plumbing. I have a further
rule that I use, which is to never use anything but steel fittings.
For my track car, I've purged all the SAE double flare fittings out of
the plumbing except for the two I'm stuck with at the master cylinder-
everything else is AN single flares, and 3AN tube nuts and sleeves. It
was a lot of work, but the parts are universally available at every
race shop in every backwater in the country, so I know I can get what
I need. 

Good flaring tools are easy to come by. Get the catalog from:

Aircraft Spruce and Specialty Company
201 West Truslow Ave.
Fullerton, Ca 92632
714-870-7551

This company specializes in selling stuff to aircraft homebuilders-
which makes it an exellent source for wierd tools, small quantities of
raw materials (ever try to buy just 2 feet of 4130 chromoly tubing
before?), GOOD hardware (meaning NAS and AN mil/aero-spec fasteners)
and other nifty arcane thinguses. If you are in a part of the country
that doesn't have places that sell to us crazed enthusiast-types, you
need this catalog.

They have the Rol-Aire Imperial, which is the flaring tool of choice
for 37deg AN single flares, and several SAE and ISO flaring tools as
well. I forget whose SAE tool I use- it's basically rusting from
neglect now.

I'll put in this next part even though I know most readers of this
list know this already, since the topic of compression fittings has
come up. If I save even one person from making a big mistake, this
will be worth the bandwidth wasted:

Under no circumstances use pure copper tubing in brake or fuel
plumbing, despite the fact that it is easily available and appears to
be easy to work with. The problem is that it work-hardens and becomes
very, very brittle- especially at flare fittings. Under the cyclical
loadings seen from brake applications, and in the presence of moisture
(and possibly high concentrations of chlorides, if you live in a road
salt area), they will almost certainly fail. They will tend to crack
and fail right at the flare, generally with little or no warning. 

[Well said.  Copper also catalyzes the auto-oxidation of fuel, the 
mechanism of sludge formation.  Copper should never be in contact 
with fuel.  JGD]

There, I feel better. Best of luck!

-skod

--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and sometimes driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@sun.COM

----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Scott.Griffith (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 15:11:41 1993
Subject: Re: mixing your own gas (FAQ)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5074
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

as  i hear any leaded gas you canstill buy nowadays really doesn't 
have that much lead at all....


I remember a stry I heard from and old guy once...
he worked at an airbase in WW@ and He told about how every morning 
they used to go out to the planes and have to drain off like a gallon 
from each planes gas tank to get rid of cany condensation that might 
have formed overnight .  they used to just throw the gas away.
So he would take some every day and fill up his car (It was an old 
studebaker) with some of the gas...
he says it ranged from 140 to 180 octane.  
at least i think...maybe it was more like 110 to 140..im not sure 
it was a while ago...

but basically he got free super high octane gas for years when whe 
worked at that airfield.

no real point to this just passing it along...


John

----------
Posted by: John Wilentz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 20 15:16:42 1993
Subject: Brake Lines
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5075
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Source for brake lines:

	The Right Stuff
	(614) 899-9090

These guys sell pre fabricated, correctly bent, correct color end fitting
brake lines in steel and stainless.

They may also sell you raw material and fittings if you have a need
to do your own.

Ned Wilmarth
digi!devel!nwilmart

----------
Posted by: emory!digi.lonestar.org!leonis!NWILMART (NED)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 08:39:08 1993
Subject: Re: Brake line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5076
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> Brake lines use a double flare (the end is folded in so the flare has two 
>layers and the outside becomes the inner sealing face) and in all my tool
>shopping, scrounging and scavenging I've yet to find a double flaring 
>tool. I don't think either single flare or compression unions will stand up
>to high pressure as well as the double flare.

    I bought a double-flaring tool from a local autoparts store for
    about $25.  It was crap.  The "clamping" part of the tool just
    couldn't hold the tube in place while I was flaring.  Probably
    about 1 in 10 flares turned out OK, but I didn't trust them. 
    Instead, I used double-ended fittings to join lines together, and
    coiled up any extra line.  If you really want to "flare-your-own",
    I'd suggest buying a decent ( >$25 ) tool, or find a shop that will
    do it.
----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!pjnelson (Peter J Nelson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 08:47:51 1993
Subject: Re: Brake line 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5077
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Of course, Scott Griffith will probably pipe up hear and swear against
the double flare. I have a quote here somewhere from a different list
(the > part is the original message and the non-> part is Scott). 

[On Jan 29, Scott.Griffith@eng.sun.com wrote:]

On Jan 29, John Lupien wrote:

> I have a double-flare kit. It also does single-flares. I have about a
> 50% success rate in making a good double flare. So on any given run of
> line, I have about a 25% chance of getting two good double flares.
> My hit rate for single flares is closer to 95%, so I get a good pair
> of single-flares about 90% of the time. This means that double-flare
> lines are quite annoying to make by comparison. 

Right- if you're still trying to seal to an SAE 45deg flare. This
usually has a male-threaded tube nut that bears directly on the OD of
the flared tube- so you need a double flare to help control galling
that can result in stress cracking right at the flare. In short, you
need "give" there. Problem is, the deformation that results is kind of
irreversible, so the next cycle or two will result in your having to
use astronomical torques to keep the flare from weeping. It's even
worse if you use a single flare in an SAE flare nut and seat, and
worse still if the seat is brass- the flared tube is sqaushed from
both sides, even as it is deformed by the nut galling on it. The brass
seat deforms and work hardens. It may seal _once_, with a ton of
torque and some luck. I've done it (to repair a split hard line), but
I felt _very_ spooky about it and got it outta there ASAP.

The AN single flare is an entirely different kettle of fish. It is
still a concave flare, but its 37deg angle seals by stretching, not
squashing.  And the tube is supported by a separate sleeve that the
female-threaded tube nut bears upon. This isolates the flare from the
torques imparted by the nut. So rather than trying to get a seal
despite the presence of rotating torques and the resulting galling,
you press the flare between precisely-machined (steel!) seat and
precisely-machined support sleeve.  The sealing area under compression
is at least double that of the SAE flare.

This works a hell of a lot better. An additional bonus is that the OD
of the nut is a lot larger than the 3/8" of an SAE nut, which means you
won't kill as many trying to get the proper sealing torque. Even so,
I'd still never attack _any_ tube nut without using a flare nut
wrench.

The SAE stuff was designed to go together once on the assembly line,
and then be "immortal", as defined by Detroit. It's pretty good at it,
too! The AN stuff is designed for field serviceability, long fatigue
life, and a level of bulletproofness the SAE never considered. It
could be worse- we could be talking about the ISO "bubble" flares,
which I've still never successfully made yet- and not for lack of
trying. 

The whole reason I harp on repeatability and multiple mate-demate
cycles is that, to the best of my knowledge, I have never once put
something on the car, and had it _stay_ put on. I always forgot
something, or broke something during the season, or needed to swap out
something because it was at the end of its service life. Race cars
ain't Detroit, thank Gawd.

> Regarding performance, on the other hand, although I have never experienced
> a failure on either type of flare, the double-flare has that nice "squish"
> feeling as you tighten the flare nut, that indicates to me that it is
> getting a superior seal. It's like the difference between a steel washer and an
> aluminum crush washer on the oil drain plug: the steel doesn't crush,
> and although if you torque it enough it seals, the crush washer seals
> better at a lower torque. 

Just wait'll you try the AN stuff- the torque required for a seal
during the _second_ mating cycle is the same as that required the
first.

-skod

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 08:54:17 1993
Subject: Brake line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5078
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I got my double flaring tool from snap-on. Does all sizes and is guaranteed--
although expensive...

-dan a.
dhoward@sw.stratus.com

----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 08:59:30 1993
Subject: msd6 ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5079
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I noticed that msd has 3 different msd6 boxes... Anyone know what the 
differences are between them? I don't have their catalog.

msd6a 	          msd6al 	        msd6alt (i think these are the names)
[Basic box        With shock mtg    Integral rev limiter
				  and rev limiter
				  connection 
JGD]

-dan a.
dhoward@sw.stratus.com

----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 09:04:49 1993
Subject: Re:  Brake Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5080
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu





         J.C. Whitney sells a brake line kit that contains 25 ft of 
quality brake line and a whole assortment of fittings. I've ordered
2-3 kits in the past few years and have had no problems with them.
You get all this for the amazing price of $13-16, depending on what 
catalog you order from(I get one once a week almost). The also sell
a flaring kit that is kind of cheap(quality and price) but I have had 
no problems with the double flares I have made. BTW flaring kits should
not be a problem to find, any tool dealer would have them.
                                              Tim.

----------
Posted by: emory!ucsvax.ucs.umass.edu!HILLIARD (TIMOTHY A HILLIARD)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 09:10:13 1993
Subject: Injectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5081
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

                          SUBJECT:  Injectors
I ran across the following information about injectors and thought it may be of
general interest:

Manufacturer        Part #        Flow @ 45 psi
================================================
Lucas              5208006         15.8 lbs/hr
Lucas              5207011         23.9 lbs/hr
Bosch (Stock GN)   0-280-150-218   29.8 lbs/hr
Bosch (Supercoupe) 0-280-150-756   32.0 lbs/hr
Bosch (Porsche)    0-280-150-213   33.0 lbs/hr
Bosch              0-280-150-911   33.0 lbs/hr
Lucas              5207009         33.2 lbs/hr
Lucas              5207008         40.1 lbs/hr
Bosch              0-280-150-803   40.0 lbs/hr
Lucas              5107010         52.0 lbs/hr
AC Rochester       MSD 2014        72.0 lbs/hr
Bendix (red)       GM25500139      82.0 lbs/hr
AC Rochester       MSD 2015        96.0 lbs/hr
Bendix (white)     GM (alcohol)   180.0 lbs/hr

This data was gathered from ATR's literature enclosed in their 7th injector
kit.  Also, they note that the rated flow is NOT at rail pressure.  The value
at 45 psi is the differential pressure across the injector.  In other words, if
the fuel pressure is 65 psi @ WOT and the boost is set at 20 psi, the
differential pressure is 45 psi.

They also included an A/F ratio graph that confirmed what I saw on the chassis
dyno with my car ... namely that under boost the car should hover around 12.5:1
for best HP and detonation resistance.  A crude ASCII rendering of the graph is
below:
___
   |         ! *******    !       !       !        !
   |         **        ******     !       !        !
   |      *  !            !  *****!       !        !
BHP|    *    !            !       **      !        !
   |  *      !            !       ! **    !        !
   |*        !            !       !   **  !        !
___|         !            !       !      *!        !
   |  RICH   !  CORRECT   !  LEAN ! LIGHT !* SEVERE!
   |         !    A/F     !       ! KNOCK ! *KNOCK !
   |         !            !       !       !  *     !
   |         !            !       !       !   *    !
   |         !            !       !       !    *   !
   |         !            !       !       !     *  !
   |         !            !       !       !      * !
___|_________|____________|_______|_______|________|
   |         |            |       |       |        |
  11.0      12.0         13.0    13.5    14.0     14.7
                      Air/Fuel Ratio


-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  More *POWER*!  More *BOOST*!  Urrrrr! Urrrrr!

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 09:16:49 1993
Subject: New Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5082
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On the subject of Mustang vs. Camero:
Why buy a brand new Mustang or Camero when you can build a quicker one
for half the cost? I have yet to encounter a stock Mustang or Camero
that performs better than my 84 LX, and it cost me about 6700 Canadian
to build. Trust me, there is no greater feeling than building your own
car.
G.H. Stockholm


[I've gotten a couple of gentle reminders from list members that 
this thread has been about stock vehicles - against the charter.
Oops.  Let's let this be the end.

Oh, and G.H.  I agree 1000%!!!  Buy? New Car? me? Never! :-)  JGD]

----------
Posted by: A0RB 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 09:24:15 1993
Subject: Brake Lines - Copper
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5083
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

     Isn't it true that copper tubing is available for brake lines which is
much different than the copper tubing available from the hardware store?

----------
Posted by: TIMOTHY COLLINS 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 09:29:54 1993
Subject: Re: Ford rack and pinion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5084
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> suit their needs.  Their problem with the 15:1 ratio was that they
-> could not "flick" the wheel, so we drilled out the restrictors to
-> give them more boost (my "everything is adjustable" example :-).

 Back when we were running Monzilla we ran into pump catch.  You're out
there in the slaloms left-right-left-right-SCREEEEECH as the pump
finally runs out of stuff.  The proper solution would be an accumulator,
but there wasn't really a place for one in a V8 Monza with power
steering, power brakes, and factory air.  After flipping through some
old Mitchell manuals we found some GM power steering pumps had higher
line pressures, so in in fit of "what the hell" we tried one from a late
'60s Cadillac.  It also had a smaller diameter pulley.  What the heck,
it wasn't the "proper" solution, but it cured the symptoms.  
                                                                                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 09:35:33 1993
Subject: long rod 351W
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5085
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


 Early last year, digging through various sources, I assembled a list of
dimensions for small block Ford parts.  I found that 351M rods would fit
in a 351W.  The 351W rods are 5.995 inches, the 351Ms are 6.65.  Bearing
and pin diameters are the same.  The long rod swap requires a special
piston, of course.  Arias gave me a price of $640 for eight 1.19 pin
height pistons, and that's with the pin up in the oil ring groove.  When
I started my 351 I gave a figurative toss of the dice - B&A wanted $150
a set for their hyper-eutectic (Federal-Mogul) custom pistons with 351W
pin height and 351C domes, and I already had a set of six inch Windsor
rods.  For an easy savings of $500 there was no competition.

 Someone else finally figured it out.  There's an article in the May
Popular Hot Rodding, which just showed up in the local supermarket.
I bought it and read it, and I'm somewhat shocked.  It's by Peter
Sauracker, who's the technical guru at Circle Track.  (if you look at
the bylines, all these auto-journalist types frequently wander hither
and yon)

 Anyway, I've sometimes disagreed with Sauracker, but I've never caught
him in an obvious cockup.  He totally blew it on this one, though.  I
dunno if it's entirely his fault - the jeeter-types who put this thing
together seemed to have some pretty contradictory ideas as to what they
wanted.

 "...objectives...must make tons of power and torque...in a streetable
RPM range...want the engine to be simple...maximum price of $5000 to pay
for a professionally assembled long block."

 DAVE:  for five grand just for the short block, I'd buy one of Lunati's
        510 cube 460 strokers.  $5000 seems like a hell of a lot for a
        street motor - my B&A Windsor will only cost $2500 complete, and
        that includes *everything*, as I had no usable parts around to
        scavenge.


[looking for] "...425 ft-lbs torque and 375hp..."

DAVE:   Let's open the Racer Walsh catalog here.  On page 14, we find
        the 351 HO marine motor rated at 285hp and 355 ft-lbs.  It's a
        brand new Ford motor, not rebuilt, with the GT40 heads, a marine
        cam, and a point distributor.  No mention of the type of intake,
        but it comes with a Holley carb.  All for $2295.  You could
        probably find 20 ft-lb of torque given the $2805 left in the
        budget, wot?


 "There has been a little known secret in engine technology that many
people don't understand or even know about in some cases.  Employing
this secret can result in a tremendous step forward in the power
produced by most street cars, yet does not adversely affect
dirveability, fuel mileage, vacuum, idle quality, and all our other
requirements.  What is it?  Rod length."

 DAVE:  BRAAAWK.  That's my bogosity meter hitting the peg.  Long rods
        tend to *reduce* torque at lower RPMs where this engine is
        supposed to run, aggravate reversion problems due to late
        intake valve closing, aggravate overlap problems, tend to make
        the engine more sensitive to spark timing and detonation due to
        higher peak cylinder pressures, etc.  Long rods are great in
        many cases, but just sliding a set in ain't gonna make granny's
        Windsor a torque monster.


 "...Ford 351 Windsor...9.300 deck height."

DAVE:   The Cleveland is 9.200.  The Windsor is 9.500.  Where does
        Sauracker get 9.300?


"combined with using special smaller pistons...inexpensively gain a full
.500-inch in rod length."

DAVE:   SMALLER pistons?  Is this guy for real, or what?


"Crane...cast iron aftermarket...64cc chamber...Fireball heads...special
JE dished pistons to get 9.5:1 CR"

DAVE:   certainly going low-buck here, aren't we?  What's a set of those
        heads cost, about a grand?  They babble about the requirement
        for a dished piston to get the 9.5:1 CR with the tiny 64cc
        chamber.  Interestingly, the early Windsor heads were 60.5cc,
        2V 302s were 64cc, and 4V 302s were 58cc.  Do these people know
        how to figure compression?


"...used the longer 351M/400 rod..."

DAVE:   the rods are the same length - 6.65" - but the 400 rod has a
        larger pin end for the special 400-size pin, which is different
        from all other Ford small blocks


 There's some other stuff in the article - the high-dollar Crane heads
are mated with a 224 degree roller cam, 1.5" tube headers, and a 650
Holley, and then one of Weiand's high-RPM dual-plane intakes.  Well, I
guess nobody thought about putting a tunnel ram and a single two barrel
on it. The parts mismatch looks sorta like they put this thing together
out of leftover parts and what was on sale.

 The whole article is written in a mixture of "gee whiz" and incorrect
facts.  Sauracker also has a *second* article in the same issue,
recycling a Circle Track article from last year, pictures and all.  That
kind of thing is considered to be just a little tacky.  He even has a
third article in the same issue, but it's just another "notes to
newbies" thing.


 It ain't just Sauracker, folks.  There are gross technical errors all
though the magazine.  Has PHR really sunk so low since I last bought a
copy?  I guess they have.  
                                                                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 12:08:56 1993
Subject: Re: Mustang or Camaro
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5086
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In article <1993Apr19.133020.8273@walter.cray.com> rjm@cray.com (Roger Mrdutt)  
writes:
> In article 020120U30943@uicvm.uic.edu,  () writes:
> > I'm trying to decide want would be a better car to buy .  I want power
> >     but don't want to go broke. I like both cars and would like to buy
> >     one new. I would be thankful for any suggestions anyone could give
> >     me.
> A lot depends on your budget.
> The Mustang 5.0 LX is probably your cheapest performance.
> The G.M. car is going to give you leading edge performance, handling and
> braking. I would take tha Firebird Formula over the Camaro Z28 in the looks
> and performance, and i think the Formula is cheaper????? It is a better 
> looking car. Also, the Mustang is at the end of its body-style life, the 
> Firebird/Camaro is at its start, so your NEW car will look new longer(if you 
> can afford it).

The question boils down to: do you want the performance out of the box, or  
through custom tweaking? For the price of the F-body (Camaro or Firebird), you  
can put together a Mustang that will put most cars on the road to shame. An LX  
5.0L can be had for around $12,000-15,000 (I've been looking around, so this is  
confirmed). Put another $5,000-8,000 into it, and you'll come up with a  
warhorse that will slaughter bowties (GMs).

With $5,000 or more to put into a Mustang, you can beef up the engine to a  
healthy 300 - 350 hp, put handling over 1.0g, and revamp the braking with a  
really good system. The drawback is that, even if the work is done by a shop,  
you need to learn what works and what doesn't, and which modifications will  
work well together.

If you are more worried about how popular the body style happens to be at this  
time, your talking to the wrong person. I like the 87-93 Mustang LX body,  
though I'm not exactly enamoured.

-----
Robert Seymour				rseymour@reed.edu
Physics and Philosophy, Reed College	(NeXTmail accepted)
Artificial Life Project			Reed College
Reed Solar Energy Project (SolTrain)	Portland, OR

----------
Posted by: emory!reed.edu!rseymour (Robert Seymour)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 12:13:01 1993
Subject: Re: mixing your own gas (FAQ)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5087
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Kevin asks
> 
> Sorry about this posting, I know it has been discussed
> before but I have a high compression (11:1) older
> (not sure if it has hardened valve seats) auto that 
> I would like to add octane and lead to.  The few methods
> I know about are:
> 
Well my son has an older 10.5 compression ratio car that he has been putting
unleaded pump gas into to about 9 months.  So far he only retarded the spark 
a bit to compensate for the lack of octane.  The valves seem to holding up
fine even though that only about 17,000 miles since he got it.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 12:36:33 1993
Subject: Re: msd6 ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5088
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> 
> 
> I noticed that msd has 3 different msd6 boxes... Anyone know what the 
> differences are between them? I don't have their catalog.
> 
> msd6a 	          msd6al 	        msd6alt (i think these are the names)
> [Basic box        With shock mtg    Integral rev limiter
> 				  and rev limiter
> 				  connection 
> JGD]

Did that get munged, john?

6A: Basic box
6AL: rubber mounts, internal rev limiter, magnetic pickup input (not sure
     if the 6A has this)
6T: I really have no idea...

I have a 6AL and love it.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 12:42:03 1993
Subject: Re: Injectors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5089
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> They also included an A/F ratio graph that confirmed what I saw on the chassis
> dyno with my car ... namely that under boost the car should hover around 12.5:1
> for best HP and detonation resistance.  A crude ASCII rendering of the graph is

Quick side note:  12.5:1 applies only to gasoline...  anyone know AFR is ideal
(power wise) for M85?


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 12:47:25 1993
Subject: long rod 351W
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5090
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>  Early last year, digging through various sources, I assembled a list of
> dimensions for small block Ford parts.  I found that 351M rods would fit
> in a 351W.  The 351W rods are 5.995 inches, the 351Ms are 6.65.  Bearing
> and pin diameters are the same.  The long rod swap requires a special
> piston, of course.  Arias gave me a price of $640 for eight 1.19 pin
> height pistons, and that's with the pin up in the oil ring groove.  When
> I started my 351 I gave a figurative toss of the dice - B&A wanted $150
> a set for their hyper-eutectic (Federal-Mogul) custom pistons with 351W
> pin height and 351C domes, and I already had a set of six inch Windsor
> rods.  For an easy savings of $500 there was no competition.
> 
>  Someone else finally figured it out.  There's an article in the May
> Popular Hot Rodding, which just showed up in the local supermarket.
> I bought it and read it, and I'm somewhat shocked.  It's by Peter
> Sauracker, who's the technical guru at Circle Track.  

< rest of stuff deleted >

 I was on the phone with Bill Mitchell (the HARDCORE MOTOR guys). He just 
placed an order for a long-rod windsor (before my 486 cube chevy ;'). 
These guys have been "pushing" the ford long-rod idea for those folks 
building windsors. The guy on the phone (tony) made it sound like it was 
worth the effort and money (the long-rod ford) if you are drag-racing a Ford.

Those guy's aren't gonna recommend a long rod and low compression for the 
street. I wouldn't want that combo either... Sounds like there are a whole 
bunch of us that agree on this (maybe except Sauracker)... 

It doesn't sound like a combo i'd want to go to the grocery store in.. 

-dan a.
dhoward@sw.stratus.com

----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 12:53:39 1993
Subject: Re: New Mustang
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5091
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>Why buy a brand new Mustang or Camero when you can build a quicker one
>for half the cost? I have yet to encounter a stock Mustang or Camero
>that performs better than my 84 LX, and it cost me about 6700 Canadian
>to build. Trust me, there is no greater feeling than building your own
>car.
>G.H. Stockholm

>[I've gotten a couple of gentle reminders from list members that 
>this thread has been about stock vehicles - against the charter.
>Oops.  Let's let this be the end.

>Oh, and G.H.  I agree 1000%!!!  Buy? New Car? me? Never! :-)  JGD]

Agreed. Stock vehicles are boring. But I see nothing wrong with 
hotrodding NEW cars. The technology present in new "performance"
cars gives you a much better foundation upon which to start building.
The way I see it, there are two kinds of hotrodding.. People who fool
with carb jets and advance weights, and those who play with ECU code,
fuel injectors, and turbos. Not everyone is into 60's and 70's stuff.
The bottom line is G-forces. We all want'em. Some of us just seem
to have different ways of going about getting more of 'em.

Greg Granville        Applied Research Lab - PSU     (814)865-3310 (work)
gag@arlvax.psu.edu        University Park, PA        (814)339-7244 (home)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
        Officer, are you sure your radar is properly calibrated?
It's just a little 4 cylinder Plymouth... It couldn't possibly go 145mph!

----------
Posted by: GREG GRANVILLE 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 16:23:43 1993
Subject: Re: Brake Lines - Copper
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5092
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 21, Timothy Collins wrote:

>      Isn't it true that copper tubing is available for brake lines which is
> much different than the copper tubing available from the hardware store?

The copper-looking tubing you can get for brake plumbing is actually
mild steel with a very thin copper cladding on the OD. This helps in
corrosion resistance, and also helps the line seal if used in a double
flare- the soft copper cladding deforms and seals on the brass seat.

This is one of the reasons that people have sometimes gotten confused
about what kind of hard line is acceptable. They see the copper
cladding, and assume that pure copper is the right stuff. Most
hardware store folks aren't astute enough to ask what application
they're using it for, or know the difference, so they end up building
unsafe brake systems. It does happen...

I once fished a very nicely turned out Formula Atlantic out of a
tirewall at Lime Rock when a pure copper brake line broke at a
fitting. Turns out the car's previous owner had used some to
field-repair crash damage, and had sold the car without changing it
out. Since then, I have advised friends who are buying used race cars
to take a magnet to any coppery-looking lines, just in case. If it
doesn't stick, inspect it _very_ closely- it may be copper-clad
stainless, but it probably isn't. But I'm wierd about my braking
systems, after all. I like them to _work_.

-skod

--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and sometimes driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@sun.COM

----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Scott.Griffith (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 16:28:51 1993
Subject: Re: long rod 351W
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5093
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 21,  2:29, The Hotrod List wrote:
>
>  DAVE:  BRAAAWK.  That's my bogosity meter hitting the peg.  Long rods
>         tend to *reduce* torque at lower RPMs where this engine is
>         supposed to run, aggravate reversion problems due to late
>         intake valve closing, aggravate overlap problems, tend to make
>         the engine more sensitive to spark timing and detonation due to
>         higher peak cylinder pressures, etc.  Long rods are great in
>         many cases, but just sliding a set in ain't gonna make granny's
>         Windsor a torque monster.
>

Smokey has been selling this idea for a long time, and for two valve
production V8 engines, at least, I think he is right.

Circle track did a big dyno test to check out long vs. short rods, and
the results were conclusive.  I can dig up the issue date if you want.
Long rods are not going to reduce your low RPM torque.  In the Circle
Track dyno test, the longer rods did better everywhere. By the way,
what the heck does a long rod have to do with when the intake valve
closes????  Sounds to me like you are confusing cams and cranks ;-).
You complain about "higher peak cylinder pressures". Sounds like more
torque to me!  What about the improved piston dwell time?

[Dave's right about altered timing.  Think about it.  The real issue 
on both cam and ignition timing is NOT crank angles but where the piston
actually is (and to some extent it's recent motion history) when
the event happens.  Rod length changes change where the piston is in
the cylinder at any given crank angle other than TDC and BDC.  Since
the cam and ignition timing is fixed to crank angle, their effective
timing vs actual piston position DOES vary.  JGD]

Maybe you should go work for PHR. :-) :-)

-Bob


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 17:38:17 1993
Subject: brakes (do I need em)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5094
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 I'm no genius, but I think the first response will be yes.
Any way, I've swapped out the front and rear brakes on my car
(76 Vega) for a set of wilwood disk brakes all the way around.
I put the 4 piston calipers w/e-brake in the rear and the Dyna-lite
2 piston calipers in the front. Also I've put a proportioning valve
in the line going to the rear. 
 The problem I'm having is NO brake pressure!! The fluid will squirt
out of the calipers with some good force, and the pistons will clamp
lightly onto the disks. But no matter how fast and hard you pump (that
is my wife pumps) the pedal I can't get a solid feel. 
 This is by the way using a freshly rebuilt (stock Vega) master cylinder.
I ordered a new master cylinder from wilwood ($100 ouch!) but that hasn't
arrived yet. Do you think this may solve the problem??
 Also someone has recommended to me that I may need some residual pressure
valves. What exactly do these do?? Might I need them??
 The Brake system is all located in its stock location, that is the master
cylinder is mounted on the firewall above the calipers.
  Any help or suggestions would be greatly appretiated!!!

                                             Mark F.

----------
Posted by: emory!resdgs1.er.usgs.gov!mfugazzo (Mark Fugazzotto)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 18:23:38 1993
Subject: Re:  Brake line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5095
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In article <#7lv4gg@dixie.com>, James Swonger writes:

> Brake lines use a double flare (the end is folded in so the flare has two 
>layers and the outside becomes the inner sealing face)

umm, the SAE flare should be a double flare.  if you use AN flares,
you can use single flares reliably (more reliably than SAE doubles,
actually.)  however, if you want to use AN singles, you must do a very
complete conversion, as you should _not_ use a 37 degree AN flare in
a 45 degree SAE fitting (``That would be wrong'' -- Richard M. Nixon)

> and in all my tool
>shopping, scrounging and scavenging I've yet to find a double flaring 
>tool.

try either Aircraft Spruce & Specialty (in CA) or Pegasus Auto Racing
Supplies (in WI, as i recall.)  mumble (i don't have the addresses or
phone numbers on me.)

> I don't think either single flare or compression unions will stand up
>to high pressure as well as the double flare.

actually, single flared AN fittings are the only thing that Carroll Smith
will suffer to put on his race cars, which is a Very Strong recommendation.

cheers,
  richard
-- 
richard welty        518-393-7228       welty@cabot.balltown.cma.com
``Nothing good has ever been reported about the full rotation of
  a race car about either its pitch or roll axis''  -- Carroll Smith

----------
Posted by: emory!uu2.psi.com!!welty (richard welty)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 21 18:33:04 1993
Subject: Southern Nationals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5096
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Who's coming to the Southern Nationals this weekend in Commerce, GA?
I'll be there all three days.  Would like to meet anyone else
who's going to be there.  This should be a WONDERFUL weekend with
weather decidely on the cool side.  With the excellent track surface 
at the Atlanta track, ETs should be excellent.

John

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 22 12:12:20 1993
Subject: Re: brakes (do I need em)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5097
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

If you are using your stock vega master cylinder, than if you had drum brakes
on the rear, it means their is a residule valve in your rear system and if 
your vega hd drum brakes on the front, then you have one in the front circuit
also, which is a big reason for your problems.  General rule of thumb is disk 
brakes require no residule valve unless the master cylinder is located below 
the height of your calipers, then you will need a 2psi valve in that particular
line.  Another example of a required residual valve is with disk brakes such
as the Hurst airheart spot brakes which have mechanical retractors, in which
case Airheart specifies a 10 psi residual valve.  Normal drum brakes run
10 psi residual valves.  Without looking at my JFZ catalog, I would guess
they would say the same thing--no residual valves.  Usually the residual 
valve looks like a tiny "COOLEY CAP"located in the master cylinder where 
your brake line connects.  You need only manually pick it out of there and 
you have resolved your problem.  I am sure your new JFZ master cylinder
will cure your problem, but there are a lot of stock dual master cylinders 
out there which are already setup for disc drum or 4 wheel disc brakes which
you can substitute.  If you have access to a Wagner catalog, both the old 
and new versions not only show you pictures but also provide the diameter 
size of the cylinders so that you can match it to the system you are building.
If you want to read more about this, pick up a copy of the HP book on
Brakes.  Good reading.Mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 22 12:18:58 1993
Subject: Re: long rod 351W
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5098
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Smokey has been selling this idea for a long time, and for two valve
-> production V8 engines, at least, I think he is right.

 Grumpy Jenkins beat him to it, or at least was the first to make a big
production out of it.  However, both Grumpy and Smokey build engines
that turn far above the redline of the "stump puller" motor which was
supposedly being built.


-> Circle track did a big dyno test to check out long vs. short rods,
-> and the results were conclusive.

 Results are always conclusive when they're repeatable.  Again, the kind
of engines Circle Track is usually talking about are what's in your race
car, not what's in your car hauler, which is what the long-rod 351 was
supposed to be.


-> what the heck does a long rod have to do with when the intake valve
-> closes????  Sounds to me like you are confusing cams and cranks ;-).
...
-> You complain about "higher peak cylinder pressures". Sounds like more
-> torque to me!  What about the improved piston dwell time?

 Hokay.  Maybe it's not obvious.    What you get with the longer
rod is improved dwell time near TDC and, to a lesser extent, BDC.  Your
speed curve is sorta egg-shaped.  By slightly lengthening the dwell at
TDC, you're basically increasing effective overlap and scavenging.  You
can take advantage of this with proper induction, exhaust, and cam to
get more top end power.  On the other hand, the increased dwell will
cause higher peak cylinder pressure near TDC given usual intake valve
closing figures.  This cylinder pressure isn't doing you any good - the
rod is nearly straight up and down, and even tremendous amounts of extra
pressure won't help the dyno figures much.  High *peak* pressure is
fairly useless, and can cause serious detonation problems as well as
bearing loads.  What you would ideally want is peak pressure when the
crank is at 90 degrees, where it has the most leverage.  Alas, if you
wait that long to fire the charge you don't have any compression on it,
so you lose power.  Increasing the average cylinder pressure is a Good
Thing, but *where* you increase the pressure is more important than how
much, see?

 Now, back to the chase:  The engine Sauracker reported on was a very
mild torque motor, albeit with a wad of high-dollar parts.  The jump
from 6.0 to 6.65 rods sounds real impressive until you look at some
non-Chevy motors:
        350 Olds: 6.0 inches
        350 Pontiac: 6.625
        351M Ford: 6.65
        360 Mopar: 6.125

 These engines, at least in stock form, aren't generally considered real
ground-pounders.  From what I see, rod length doesn't really matter for
mildly tuned, street-type motors.  Racing engines are a whole 'nother
bag of snakes, but again, the article wasn't about a racing motor.


-> Maybe you should go work for PHR. :-) :-)

Hey, no need to get insulting...
                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 22 12:25:28 1993
Subject: brakes (do I need em)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5099
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> The problem I'm having is NO brake pressure!! The fluid will squirt
-> out of the calipers with some good force, and the pistons will clamp

 Sounds like your master cylinder bore is too small to feed all those
calipers.  Most Vegas have a 7/8 bore cylinder.  What you need is Puhn's
Brake Handbook, available from most speed shops, which will tell you how
to figure up the fluid volume required.
                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 22 12:33:51 1993
Subject: Re: brakes (do I need em)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5100
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 21, Mark Fugazzotto wrote:

> I've swapped out the front and rear brakes on my car
> (76 Vega) for a set of wilwood disk brakes all the way around.
> I put the 4 piston calipers w/e-brake in the rear and the Dyna-lite
> 2 piston calipers in the front. Also I've put a proportioning valve
> in the line going to the rear. 

This sounds very spooky to me. If you have the Dynalite 2-pots with
the 1.75" pistons in the front, that gives you 2.41in2 of piston area
per caliper. Then if you have the 4-pots with the 1.75" pistons in the
rear, that gives you 4.82in2 per caliper- or double the total clamping
force from the rear calipers. That is going to give you a _very_
tail-happy braking setup, and even your prop valve may not be enough
to get a balance. This will work, sort of, on a drag car with huge
meats in the rear, but isn't at all what you want for a street car.

To make this work, you'd like a _lot_ more piston area in the front
than what you have now- it's simple hydraulics. If the piston areas
are the same front and rear, your prop valve will be enough to get you
into balance.  Starting out with a tail heavy bias (by a factor of 2)
is going to give you headaches, and get you backwards a few times...

If I've made the wrong assumptions about your piston sizes, please let
me know. That info is critical for setting up braking effort.

>  The problem I'm having is NO brake pressure!! The fluid will squirt
> out of the calipers with some good force, and the pistons will clamp
> lightly onto the disks. But no matter how fast and hard you pump (that
> is my wife pumps) the pedal I can't get a solid feel. 
>  This is by the way using a freshly rebuilt (stock Vega) master cylinder.

Well, let's look at this. We'll assume for the minute that the MC is
healthy, and all its seals are alive. I don't know what brake setup
the Vega had to start with, but I'll assume it had small disks in the
front and maybe drums in the rear, and a split system with a dual
tandem master cylinder?  With the Wilwood setup, you now probably have
roughly a factor of 2 to 4 more total wheel cylinder piston area than
you used to.  Which means that your stock MC will give you a hydraulic
ratio that's _wrong_ by a factor of 2 to 4. If your stock MC is only
3/4" bore (for example), you may end up with a very, very long, soft
pedal that's way too sensitive (again, by a factor of 2 to 4).

If you increase caliper piston area, you have to increase MC piston
area proportionally to keep the same pedal stroke and feel. What bore
is the master cylinder?

> I ordered a new master cylinder from wilwood ($100 ouch!) but that hasn't
> arrived yet. Do you think this may solve the problem??
>  Also someone has recommended to me that I may need some residual pressure
> valves. What exactly do these do?? Might I need them??

The residual pressure valves keep the pistons from over-retracting,
and are a necessary evil if your rear axles have play along the axle
shaft (the rear rotors will knock the pistons back even further, as
the axle shafts move in and out). The valves close to keep some
pressure in the caliper even when the pressure in the line from the MC
drops back to ambient. This will keep the pads in light contact with
the rotor, rather than allowing the piston seal to fully retract the
piston. Some people like to use them to cover up the effects of
strange hydraulic ratios for heavy cars. They do reduce the pedal
stroke, but by definition they cause brake drag as well.

It's unclear how much the Wilwood MC will help, without knowing its
size. If you can find out the bores on all the pistons, you can figure
out what your hydraulic ratios used to be, and what they are now.
Basically, let's look at exactly what the brake system _was_, and then
see what parts you need to make it more or less the same thing
hydraulically _now_. You ought to be able to get exactly the pedal
feel you want, but you'll almost certainly have to tune the MC bore to
do it with that radically different caliper setup.

What are you doing with the car? Drag racing, street driving, road
racing? If it's either of the last two, you'll be swapping calipers
front-to-rear... 

-skod

--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and sometimes driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@sun.COM

----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Scott.Griffith (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 22 12:42:39 1993
Subject: Early Nova front ends 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5101
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Hey all you Nova guys... in the April 1993 issue of Super Chevy, there is a 
feature on a '67 Nova drag car. The guy installed a rack-n-pinion Pinto front
steer setup, and disc brakes. The rest of the suspension looks like the stock
Nova stuff. I was wondering if anybody knew what spindles and other stuff he
might have used.

I just recieved a Fat Man Fabrications catalog and a detail sheet for the
Nova-late Camaro front end kit. In short, it looks like a lot of money for
brackets and such. You have to supply all "factory" parts like steering rack,
spindles, struts, and disc brakes. (oh, forgot about the late Monte Carlo 
steering column). The kit is $1495. I would guess that a person might be
able to get the rest of the stuff from a junkyard for about $750. (Does that
sound right?) Sure seems like alot of money. Advantages, however, are:
100 lbs. less weight, adjustable ride height coil-overs, and you can hack the
shock towers for a big-block.

Anyway, if someone knows a better (cheaper) way to add front steer and disc
brakes to an early Nova, I'd sure appreciate it.


********************************************************************************
*             |                     Mike Sheumaker
*            /O\                    University of Illinois
*  \_______[|(.)|]_______/          Computer and Communications Services Office
*    o   ++   O   ++   o            Campus Area Networking Group (In the CAN!)
*
* "You can shoot down all thi MiGs you want, but if you return to base and the 
*  lead Soviet tank commander is eating breakfast in your snack bar, Jack,
*  you've lost the war." (A-10 pilot's motto, Nellis AFB 1982) 
********************************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!mikes (Mike Sheumaker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 22 17:49:15 1993
Subject: Re: long rod 351W
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5102
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 22,  1:34, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: long rod 351W
>  Results are always conclusive when they're repeatable.  Again, the kind
> of engines Circle Track is usually talking about are what's in your race
> car, not what's in your car hauler, which is what the long-rod 351 was
> supposed to be.

Were they not repeatable?

> rod is nearly straight up and down, and even tremendous amounts of extra
> pressure won't help the dyno figures much.  High *peak* pressure is

Sounds like a good application for another idea Smokey's been pushing
then, offset wrist pins.

-Bob

[Offset pins work well and have been pretty standard in racing motorcyle 
engines for over 30 years.  The problem with them is there is a strong
rocking couple at BDC that causes strong slapping.  If there is just
a bit of excess skirt clearance, the slap will break the skirt.  voice
of experience talking.  Not much of a problem with high-buck racing
engines that get new pistons fairly often but a REAL problem with 
econo-motors operated by people with zero budget (me!)  I started mounting
the piston reversed (a la street engines) in order to be able to run
a season on a piston.  A little less power but no more broken skirts.
JGD]


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 22 23:05:02 1993
Subject: brakes (do I need em)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5103
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Well, reading this list is sorta like when I was first learning German.  
I'd be in a conversation, understanding just enough and had something
`interesting' to add... but by the time I'd formulated a more or less
coherent german expression of my idea, the subject had already been
changed a couple of times!

Anyway, Scott (not to mention Dave & Michael) already covered my main
thoughts; calipers possibly on the wrong ends and master cylinder moving
too little fluid --- and with significantly more detail and authority
than I would have.   But there was one other thing puzzling me:

    Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1993 17:07 EDT
    From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)

	...    . Also I've put a proportioning valve
    in the line going to the rear. 

The only proportioning valves I've seen connect the front and rear to
regulate the pressure to the rear by noting the pressure differential
between front & rear.  Is that not the case here?  

Anyway, to add some levity; consider this `description' of the operation
of the NP (proportioning) valve from the '75 Datsun 280Z shop manual:

"This valve controls the pressure of the rear wheel cylinder to prevent
the earilier locking of the rear wheel.  The valve serves as a mere
connector independently of the rear system.
  When the front brake is leaking, the split point becomes much higher.
This causes the rear brake to behave as if it were without the
NP-valve."
[SIC!]

Alles klar?

[Love that Japlish :-)  JGD]

  bruce
  miller@cam.nist.gov
  

----------
Posted by: Bruce R. Miller 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 22 23:09:47 1993
Subject: brakes (do I need em)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5104
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


- -> The problem I'm having is NO brake pressure!! The fluid will squirt
- -> out of the calipers with some good force, and the pistons will clamp

Call wildwood direct.  Phone number 805 388 1188. They are more than happy
to help you... especially when you probably need more (of their) parts...
They, after all, are one of the "braking experts"....


-dan a.

----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 22 23:14:19 1993
Subject: Crankshaft Materials
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5105
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


    Can anyone outline the differences between a "standard" cast
crank, and a Nodular iron crank?     I'd assume that a Nodular crank
is stronger, but is it worth trying to find?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 23 19:59:34 1993
Subject: Re: long rod 351W
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5106
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Bob says:
-> Sounds like a good application for another idea Smokey's been pushing
-> then, offset wrist pins.

 Offset pins have been around a *long* time.  Heck, Chevy used offset
pins in the 265 and 283.  My Dycke's Automotive Encyclopedia covered
offset pins (AND the displacement changes, AND the way they change the
shape of the velocity curve!) in its 1918 edition.


John adds:
-> engines for over 30 years.  The problem with them is there is a
-> strong rocking couple at BDC that causes strong slapping.

 You don't have to offset them THAT much.  Chevy claims the reason for
offsetting the pistons in the first place was to reduce slap.  However,
it was causing wear problems with only-timey 1950s lubricant and ring
technology, so they quit.  Other GM divisions continued to use offset
pins, though I'd have to dig through my piston catalogs to find which.

 In the old days in the motorcycle world, one of the tricks was to
offset the cylinder from the crank axis.  This works similarly to
offsetting the pin.  Maely used to do it to his flat track motors.
Interestingly, Gordon Jennings pooh-poohed the idea when he reported it.
                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 23 20:11:13 1993
Subject: Crankshaft Materials
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5107
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


->   Can anyone outline the differences between a "standard" cast
-> crank, and a Nodular iron crank?     I'd assume that a Nodular crank
-> is stronger, but is it worth trying to find?

 Hokay.  There are three basic types of crankshaft:

FORGED STEEL:  "Steel" is a term that covers a multitude of alloys.
        In many cases, the only thing that makes a part "steel" instead
        of "cast iron" is that the iron is poured and the steel is
        forged or rolled.  As used for cranks, it's always forged.  It's
        still the strongest type of crank, though there are residual
        stresses from the forging and machining processes.

CAST IRON:  This is what we ordinarily call "gray cast iron" or "Detroit
        Wonder Metal."  It's fairly strong, has excellent wear and
        temperature characteristics, and it's nearly as cheap as dirt.
        It's main problem is that it's brittle.  Take a gray iron part,
        whack it just right, and it could break like a piece of china.
        Proper design gets around this by designing in adequate section
        areas for the anticipated load.

NODULAR IRON:  This is a fairly recent development, coming to the auto
        world in the 1950s.  It's a very high carbon "iron".  Its
        tensile strength is only so-so, but it's astoundingly tough -
        Ford used to show their nodular iron conrods being tied into
        knots on a hydraulic press.  Then they'd untie them, hammer them
        straight, and put them back in the engine!  GM calls cast
        nodular iron "Armasteel".  In Europe, they call it "Spheroidal
        Graphite" iron, or SG.

 All have been used in Detroit engines.  If you'll tell us what engine
you have, we can probably tell you what sort of cranks are available.

(BTW, I didn't cover billet cranks, which are simply machined out of
chunks of steel, because I don't know of any post-WWII cars that used
them.  Dusenberg and Stutz used billet cranks.)
               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 23 20:32:22 1993
Subject: Re: msd6 ignitions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5108
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

the MSD-6 is the CD box
MSD-6T is the CD box with a plug for the Rev limiter
MSD-6M is a water proof -6T unit for marine use
MSD-6AL is the CD box with integral Rev Limiter

***************************************************************
Millam E. Tackitt                        met@naucse.cse.nau.edu

1967 Cougar XR-7 271/289 4spd/CR 4spd
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 3-dueces and an Auto 
1953 3/4 ton Chevy pickumup truck
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 Auto (SPORT console)
***************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 23 20:37:54 1993
Subject: Re: Brake Lines - Copper
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5109
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Cu has the unfortunate physical property that it work-hardens.
I don't think that there is an alloy that extrudes well enough to
work even if said alloy didn't work-harden.
Stick with stainless steel.

***************************************************************
Millam E. Tackitt                        met@naucse.cse.nau.edu

1967 Cougar XR-7 271/289 4spd/CR 4spd
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 3-dueces and an Auto 
1953 3/4 ton Chevy pickumup truck
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 Auto (SPORT console)
***************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 23 20:43:07 1993
Subject: MSD Info
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5110
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I just happened to be at PV Speed at lunch.  Picked up the MSD
booklet.

MSD 6A ( 6200 ) 

MSD 6AL ( 6420 ) 
'6A + Soft Touch

MSD 6M ( 6450 )
'6A Marine

MSD 6T ( 6400 ) 
'6A Track

This information is out of date.  Anybody car to put the additional
part numbers in, with short descriptions?
	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

----------
Posted by: emory!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 24 05:39:14 1993
Subject: Re: Nova Discs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5111
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Hey all you Nova guys... in the April 1993 issue of Super Chevy, there is a
> feature on a '67 Nova drag car. The guy installed a rack-n-pinion Pinto front
> steer setup, and disc brakes. The rest of the suspension looks like the stock
> Nova stuff. I was wondering if anybody knew what spindles and other stuff he
> might have used.
>

Well, I don't own a Nova, but my 68 Camaro has a 70 Chevy II 12-bolt posi
axle that is just great.  So I know how proper interchange information can
be a money and time saver.  Disc brakes will interchange as TRUE bolt-ons
within the following GM families:

    68-74 X-Bodies (Novas, Omegas, Venturas, and Apollos)
    67-69 F-Bodies (Camaros and Firebirds)
    64-72 A-Bodies (Chevelles, Monte Carlos, Cutless, Lemans, Skylarks)
    ??-75 H-Bodies (Vega, Monza, Astre, Starfire, Sunbird, Skyhawk)

Note that the 77+ Monza brakes will bolt on to the H-bodies listed
above.  These brakes have ventilated rotors.

CAVEAT: when swapping between models within a family (e.g Nova/Omega),
make sure you use the steering arm supplied on the destination vehicle.
The steering arm is bolted to the spindle and its location varies among
family models.  The new spindle should bolt right up.

It's hard as Hades around here to find a donor Camaro or Firebird any more
for a brake transplant.  Oh, and if you do go to one of the new style
boneyards (hand's off and no spittin) - and mention "Camaro", the price
will be higher than if you said "Firebird".

If you do find a place like this, tell them you need to replace the disc
brakes on grandma's 71 Olds Omega. (grin)

Now, this doesn't mean you can't take the four-wheel disc system from
a 79 'Vette and get it to work on a Camaro.  But it aint a bolt-on.

The '67 Nova dragster probably had aftermarket drag front discs
like those available from Wilewood.  They often have aluminum calipers,
and lightweight roters to save weight.  Plus the pads are often more
grippy.  They'll work on a street car, but you need to match the rotor
width to the weight of a daily driver or they'll wear too quickly.

> I just recieved a Fat Man Fabrications catalog and a detail sheet for the
> Nova-late Camaro front end kit. In short, it looks like a lot of money for
> brackets and such. You have to supply all "factory" parts like steering rack,
> spindles, struts, and disc brakes. (oh, forgot about the late Monte Carlo
> steering column). The kit is $1495. I would guess that a person might be
> able to get the rest of the stuff from a junkyard for about $750. (Does that
> sound right?) Sure seems like alot of money. Advantages, however, are:
> 100 lbs. less weight, adjustable ride height coil-overs, and you can hack the
> shock towers for a big-block.
>
> Anyway, if someone knows a better (cheaper) way to add front steer and disc
> brakes to an early Nova, I'd sure appreciate it.
>

I suppose the Fat Man didn't get that way by giving parts away. (grin)
It isn't clear to me what you want to accomplish with the steering.  If
you want a faster ratio gearbox, you can probably get that from GM.

I just bought everything for my 68 Camaro front disc conversion from an
Auto Parts store, except for spindles and splash guards, for $271.  This
includes a remanufactured Delco Morraine master cylinder/power booster,
but everything else is new:

  11" Rotors ................. 120
  2-Piston Calipers ..........  28
  MC/Booster ................. 110
  Bearings / Seals / Hoses ...  66
  Nuts, Bolts kit ............  15
                               ---
  SubTotal ................... 339
  20% Discount ...............  68  (frequent buyer discout)
                               ---
  Total ...................... 271

Now, the Wilewood or Lamb systems are lighter and prettier.  But at
twice the cost, they won't stop my big block Camaro much faster.  For
me the difference means I can afford disc brakes up front.

Hope you find this information useful.

Eric Webb
Internet EWZ@NCCIBM1.RTPNC.EPA.GOV

----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 24 05:49:51 1993
Subject: a different injection question...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5112
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

-------
Does anyone out there have information on the adjustment range and
procedure for a Bosch VE-type pump as installed on Cummins B5.9-160
engines?  And, yes, it is my truck and, no it isn't stock anymore... I need 
just a *bit* more juice... gotta send more smoke out my 3.5-inch
straight-pipe than before...

Walt K.
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Apr 24 05:57:32 1993
Subject: NHRA Southern Nationals - Friday
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5113
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Today was my first day to attend an NHRA drag race as a "media scum" :-)
GAWD does the NHRA media machine load you down with stuff.  It sure
is nice to be treated like the royalty of the media instead of a mere
paying customer :-)  And it is a unique experience to have the exhaust blast 
knock the lenses out of your glasses as Amato's last run did :-)  

Here are the numbers for final qualifying at the end of Friday.  I can
say one thing.  The combination of an excellent track surface (one can
hardly walk on the starting line it is so sticky), cool dry air and
a favorable wind is making for some damn fast times.  In Top Fuel,
you almost have to run 300 mph to qualify!  

NHRA bought the track from Gary Brown this year and has done significant
work, particularly on the public address system.  They had concert-style
speakers spaced about every 25 feet down the track.  You could hear
the announcer over everything except the fuel cars.  NICE!

Sears was there with a film (real film, not video) crew filming for an
upcoming commercial.  They're getting into drag racing in a big way.
Was also interesting in seeing Sequent Computers on the side of a Top
Fuel car.  

If John Force can get his car to run on all 8, he may break 300 mph
this meet.  Who would have believed?   And who'd have believed
that Force has gone a whole day without a fire :-)

Everyone seemed to be running RacePack's new data acquisition computer.
Tiny little thing, built into an extruded aluminum housing.  I'm trying
to talk one of the Top Fuel or Funny Car guys into giving me some data
to print.  It is fascinating, particularly the clutch data.


TOP FUEL
           # DRIVER              CAR           MOTOR        ET     MPH
 1.        3 Kenny Bernstein     93 Swindahl   KB    500    4.877  297.42 
 2.      738 Rance McDaniel      92 Swindahl   TFX   500    4.884  300.10 
 3.        1 Joe Amato           93 Swindahl   KB    500    4.890  300.90 *
 4.        4 Eddie Hill          93 Uyehara    JP-1  498    4.899  286.62 
 5.      319 Scott Kalitta       91 Hadman     KB    500    4.927  298.30 
 6.        7 Pat Austin          93 WAR        WAR   498    4.929  300.80 
 7.        5 Ed McCulloch        93 Swindahl   KB    500    4.947  285.71 
 8.       1O Dannielle DePorter  92 Hadman     KB    500    4.972  289.48 
 9.      768 Mike Dunn           92 Uyehara    Dodg  500    4.992  261.55 
10.      503 Tommy Johnson Jr.   91 Swindahl   KB    500    4.997  277.94 
11.      712 Don Prudhomme       93 Swindahl   KB    500    5.020  266.98 
12.       98 John Andretti       90 Swindahl   KB    500    5.041  297.52 
13.      108 Bruce Larson        92 McKinney   JP-1  500    5.146  278.46 
14.        8 Michael Brotherton  92 Swindahl   Dodg  496    5.149  240.70 
15.      484 Jimmy Nix           93 McKinney   JP-l  500    5.232  201.74 
16.      303 Pat Dakin           88 Don Long   KB    500    5.259  274.39 
---CUT---
17.      301 Jim Head            93 Holt       KB    498    5.305  197.36 
18.      107 John Carey          93 Rowe       KB    498    5.313  279.15 
19.      736 Shelly Anderson     93 Uyehara    BAE   500    5.612  174.89 
20.      223 Mike Smith          92 Rowe       KB    498    6.306  145.81 
21.      300 Jack Ostrander      92 Swindahl   JP-1  500    8.216  104.22 
22.        9 Doug Herbert        93 Swindahl   KB    500    9.282   89.00 

* NEW TRACK/EVENT RECORD


FUNNY CAR

        # DRIVER             CAR              MOTOR        ET     MPH
1.      2 John Force         93 Cutlass       KB    490    5.120* 290.32*
2.    606 Gordie Bonin       93 Oaytona       KB    500    5.148  286.53
3.      3 Al Hofmann         93 Daytona       KB    500    5.163  290.88
4.      5 Chuck Etchells     93 Daytona       KB    500    5.207  283.64
5.    217 Freddie Neely      92 Probe         KB    500    5.208  284.45
6.    213 Jim Epler          92 Daytona       KB    500    5.281  266.11
7.      1 Cruz Pedregon      93 Cutlass       KB    500    5.330  269.70
8.      4 Del Worsham        92 Cutlass       KB    496    5.402  276.41
9.    782 Gary Densham       93 Cutlass       KB    500    5.404  263.00
10.    10 Gary Bolger        93 Trans Am      KB    496    5.409  268.01
11.     6 Tom Hoover         91 Daytona       KB    500    5.417  260.11
12.     8 Gordon Mineo       93 Firebird      JP-l  496    5.418  265.40
13.   132 Jerry Caminito     93 Cutlass       KB    500    5.422  273.72
14.   222 Paul Smith         91 Cutlass       KB    500    5.597  206.04
15.   506 Jack Wyatt         91 Oaytona       KB    497    5.686  232.91
16.   888 Kenji Okazaki      93 Daytona       KB    500    6.167  155.44
----CUT---
17.   305 Dean Skuza         91 Probe         KB    500    6.391  155.89
18.     9 Whit Bazemore      91 Probe         KB    500    6.894  127.69
19.   310 Rick Krahe         91 Daytona       KB    498    6.920  135.35
20.   385 Gary Cellone       93 Daytona       KB    498    7.614  113.73

* NEW TRACK/EVENT RECORD


ProStock
            # DRIVER             CAR            MOTOR        ET     MPH
 1.         1 Warren Johnson     93 Cutlass     Olds  499    7.126  194.30   
 2.         2 Scott Geoffrion    93 Daytona     Dodg  498    7.145  193.38   
 3.        21 Kurt Johnson       92 Cutlass     Olds  499    7.152  192.18   
 4.       124 Frank Iaconio      93 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.161  192.02   
 5.        15 Joe Lepope Jr      93 Beretta     Chev  498    7.182  192.22  
 6.         7 Mark Pawuk         92 Cutlass     Olds  498    7.191  191.89   
 7.       299 David Rampy        93 Cutlass     Chev  499    7.206  190.63   
 8.         5 Bob Glidden        91 Probe       Ford  497    7.207  192.22   
 9.         8 Bruce Allen        93 Lumina      Chev  498    7.223  191.65   
10.       303 Rusty Glidden      91 Probe       Ford  497    7.228  192.18   
11.       244 Mark Osborne       93 Cutlass     Olds  498    7.232  191.08   
12.       353 Lewis Worden       93 Oldsmobile  GM    498    7.240  191.69   
13.         6 Larry Morgan       93 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.252  191.12   
14.        10 Rickie Smith       93 Trans AM    Pont  499    7.265  190.23   
15.         3 Jerry Eckman       92 Trans Am    Pont  500    7.274  190.75   
16.       381 Jerry Haas         92 Trans AM    Pont  500    7.275  190.59   
---CUT---                                        _ _
17.         9 Jim Yates          93 Firebird    Pont  498    7.278  189.15   
18.       221 Morris Johnson Jr  91 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.282  188.52   
19.       200 Vince Khoury       93 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.285  190.35   
20.      3682 Ray Franks         90 Camaro      Pont  500    7.286  190.67   
21.       257 Gary Brown         92 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.289  190.79   
22.       752 Gordie Rivera      93 Beretta     GM    500    7.294  189.83
23.       315 Steve Schmidt      93 Trans Am    Pont  500    7.298  185.07   
24.       207 Hike Thomas        93 Cutlass     GM    499    7.321  191.04   
25.       189 Paul Rebeschi Jr   90 Grand Prix  Pont  500    7.323  189.59   
26.       714 Harry Scribner     92 Trans Am    Olds  496    7.331  189.35   
27.       449 Tim Jost           93 Beretta     Chev  497    7.364  186.83   
28.       260 George Bryce       92 Lumina      GM    500    7.397  184.65   
29.      1123 Bob Perry          90 Grand Prix  Pont  498    7.398  187.77   
30.      1525 John Nobile        93 Cutlass     Olds  498    7.419  189.23   
31.       781 Greg Thomas        93 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.506  184.01
32.       204 Kevin Sparks       89 LeBaron     Chry  499    7.692  177.20   

In an ironic twist, Gary Brown, former owner of the Atlanta Dragway until
this year failed to qualify his ProStocker.  

TOP ALCOHOL DRAG

 1.   7303 Brooks Brown       91 Heubert       KB    526    5.795    226.87  
 2.      1 Blaine Johnson     91 Hadman        Olds  528    5.817    236.15  
 3.     63 Jay Payne          93 URC           BAE   464    5.855    235.23  
 4.      3 Chuck Baird        90 Dragster      CRE   437    5.894    239.04  
 5.      2 Tom Conway         92 Uyehara       KB    447    5.916    235.35  
 6.    687 Tiffani Hyland     92 Hadman        Dodg  439    6.014    228.83  
 7.     34 Bill Reichert      92 Bowen         BNR   438    6.031    224.49  
 8.   7106 Jeremy Torstveit   92 McKinney      BAE   451    6.037    228.83  
 9.   1982 Ray Noonan         89 Dragster      8NR   456    6.048    223.82  
10.   1595 Augie Vettorino    93 Dragster      KB    427    6.051    226.98  
11.     10 Mike Kosky         92 Dragster      Olds  453    6.057    226.47  
12.   7000 Darryl Hitchman    91 Hadman        Olds  457    6.069    222.88  
13.      6 Rlch McPhillips    93 Jinkens       Chry  453    6.D89    225.45  
14.     23 Tony Lebor         89 Horton        BAE   417    6.17D    222.49  
15.   2672 Gary Edelmann      93 Dragster      BAE   450    6.189    219.72  
16.     24 Bill McCornack     93 Davis         Aria  453    6.266    218.71  
---CUT---
17.      5 Bill Barney        92 McKinney      BAE   479    6.371    218.34  
18.    216 Don Blackshear     93 Dragster      Dodg  442    6.442    217.23  

TOP ALCOHOL FUNNY CAR

1.   484  Jeff Rapp        92 Cutlass     TFX   541  5.956  235.04  
2.    10  Chuck Cheeseman  91 Oldsmobile  KB    541  5.976  230.71  
3.     3  Tony Bartone     91 Trans Am    BNR   541  5.989  233.46  
4.     1  Bob Newberry     93 Achieva     BNR   526  5.994  230.65  
5.    33  Al Dapozzo       93 Achieva     KB    542  6.004  231.60  
6.     2  Pat Austln       93 Achieva     WAR   540  6.008  236.03  
7.     8  Frank Manzo      93 Daytona     Dodg  533  6.023  234.07  
8.   700  Randy Anderson   93 Formula     BAE   542  6.066  237.40  
9.   450  Joe Penland      93 Achieva     KB    526  6.097  228.31  
10.   22  Terry Mulllns    93 Achieva     BAE   542  6.114  230.29  
11.  232  Gary Rettell     92 Daytona     Dodg  540  6.141  224.49  
12.    5  Danny Townsend   93 Pontiac     JP-1  526  6.162  229.00  
13.   34  Tim Wilkerson    93 Firebird    BAE   526  6.167  226.18  
14.  424  Michael Fialho   93 Daytona     Chry  540   DQ

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Lee Harvey Oswald: Where are ya when we REALLY need ya?

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 25 01:01:48 1993
Subject: Re: Crankshaft Materials 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5114
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

[Crank material descriptions deleted]
>
> All have been used in Detroit engines.  If you'll tell us what engine
>you have, we can probably tell you what sort of cranks are available.

   Olds 350.    A Nodular crank was supposidly available from 68-70,
and I think I can get my hands on one.  I was mainly interested in the
difference between the materials.   

   Is it worth obtaining and machining for a <275 horse street motor?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Apr 25 01:13:22 1993
Subject: Re: MSD Info
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5115
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Ok, now who knows what the 7 series designations are?

We picked up a used 7A for our Formula-SAE car. Anyone know if the 7A
is suitable for road race type applications? (4 cylinder engine, 13,000
rpm max).  Guess I ought to call Autotronics and ask...

[7A works wonderfully for road racing.  A lot of weight for your application
though.  For non-drag use I recommend getting a Blaster coil recommended
for that box.  I'll dig the part number out tomorrow if no on else does.
The 7a delivers so much power to the coil that stock coils have a 
tendency to overheat and start leaking oil.  I repair -7A's for Gary
John Racing Engines and my burn-in test is to run the box at 
"10,000" rpm for an hour using a pulse generator.  First time I 
did that with a regular coil I walked off and left it and came back
to a swelled and very hot coil.  Admittedly a worst case scenario
but considering how cheap Blaster coils are, no use taking chances.  JGD]

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 01:29:57 1993
Subject: Re: long rod 351W
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5116
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 23, 19:56, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: long rod 351W
>
> Bob says:
> -> Sounds like a good application for another idea Smokey's been pushing
> -> then, offset wrist pins.
>
>  Offset pins have been around a *long* time.  Heck, Chevy used offset
> pins in the 265 and 283.  My Dycke's Automotive Encyclopedia covered
> offset pins (AND the displacement changes, AND the way they change the
> shape of the velocity curve!) in its 1918 edition.
>
>
> John adds:
> -> engines for over 30 years.  The problem with them is there is a
> -> strong rocking couple at BDC that causes strong slapping.
>
>  You don't have to offset them THAT much.  Chevy claims the reason for
> offsetting the pistons in the first place was to reduce slap.  However,

Yes, they were used to reduce slap.  But to reduce slap, the pins are
offset in the _opposite_ direction from what is desired for best power.

Smokey talks about reversing the Chevy pistons in order to get more
power.  He says it was worth 5-6hp in a stock small-block.

-Bob

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 01:39:02 1993
Subject: Re: MSD Info
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5117
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> [7A works wonderfully for road racing.  A lot of weight for your application
> though.  For non-drag use I recommend getting a Blaster coil recommended
> for that box.  I'll dig the part number out tomorrow if no on else does.
> The 7a delivers so much power to the coil that stock coils have a 
> tendency to overheat and start leaking oil.  I repair -7A's for Gary
> John Racing Engines and my burn-in test is to run the box at 
> "10,000" rpm for an hour using a pulse generator.  First time I 
> did that with a regular coil I walked off and left it and came back
> to a swelled and very hot coil.  Admittedly a worst case scenario
> but considering how cheap Blaster coils are, no use taking chances.  JGD]

We picked up the 7A used pretty cheap, although I agree about the weight.
Right now were using a mallory promaster coil, but I'm not sure which model.
I wasn't around when all this stuff was aquired a little over a year ago.
We don'treally have that much idea as to how wellit works, since weve been
having a little trouble keeping valves in the head for the last month
(first time, they broke at the keeper (spring not seated properly) and just
rode up and down on the pistons. Last time, and exhaust valve smacked a piston
and totally destroyed the head (and knocked a whole in the  piston and split
it in half...  by the indentations, I counted at least 8 crank revolutions
after it broke).  Haven't even begun to dig into the hi load and hi rpm
areas of the fuel map, got lot of work left before we head to Detroit.
But this week I get to find out how many FTP cycles it's possible to run one
vehicle thru in 5 days (natural gas truck.. we just switched fuel systems
and EGR control strategies this weekend).

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 01:44:42 1993
Subject: Drag/Slalom Pickup Truck??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5118
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Subject: Drag/Slalom Pickup Truck??

My current signature quote is from a T-shirt by Top Dead Center Apparel;
before I appropriated it, I appended "fat ol' smallblock '70 Caprice,
vaporware '64 Chevelle" in that position.  I've been doing a lot of bench
wrenching (the precursor to bench racing :-), and besides discovering that
parts for a '65 are noticeably easier to come by than for a '64, I have also
been thinking about the advantages of having a truck with which to run down
parts while I'm working over the Caprice.  Since I'm unlikely to be able
to stable three vehicles, I thought I might combine the latter two by getting
a '65 El Camino.

The trouble is, I selected the Chevelle in the first place because, in
addition to readily-available resto parts (you just try to find roofrail
weatherstrip for a '70 4-door Caprice...), there are those dandy H-O Racing
and Global West Suspension kits that let you turn your grocery-getter into a
ZR-1 class corner burner.  Awright, then, how about an El Camino?  The
parts will bolt up okay, but am I trying to change the laws of physics
in attempting to produce accelerative and cornering traction in a vehicle
like that?  Even with aluminum heads and manifold on a smallblock up front,
and the weight of a gaseous-fuel tank out back (another reason I'm considering
a pickup), it's bound to be nose-heavy and, more to the point, tail-light.
Also, without the stiffening effect of a sedan roof I may have a flXible
flyer here; am I being over-optimistic in hoping that a roll cage extending
back to the tailgate (it could double as a camper frame on civilian duty...)
would be an adequate, if rather silly-looking, fix?

Hey, bench wrenching is cheaper than bench racing--I'm not even spending my
limited fund of credibility here by claiming this would work...

--Mark Looper
"Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"

----------
Posted by: emory!cco.caltech.edu!looper (Mark D. Looper)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 01:51:11 1993
Subject: Re: Crankshaft Materials
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5119
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> Olds 350.    A Nodular crank was supposidly available from 68-70,
-> and I think I can get my hands on one.  I was mainly interested in
-> the difference between the materials.
-> Is it worth obtaining and machining for a <275 horse street motor?

 I wouldn't bust my tail looking for one.  The Olds crank is plenty
beefy - plain old iron is plenty for 275hp.  I wouldn't pass up a Real
Good Deal, you understand.

 According to my information, ALL 350 Olds cranks are nodular iron.
All 330 cranks are forged and have the same stroke as the 350, but
the flywheel bolt pattern is different.
                                                                                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 07:20:57 1993
Subject: Performance heads question...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5120
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


>*******************************************************
I was wondering if anyone out there could give me some info about the
differences in a couple of the different performance heads out there for the
small block Chevy... my question is as follows:
I have:
-.030 over 327
-3310 Holley (750 vac. sec. w/ a secondary metering block and 74's for jets on
both sides)
-Edelbrock Performer RPM manifold
-GM 461 heads w/Z-28 springs (no other mods or porting)
-Comp.Cams 292 Magnum (292/292-.507/.507)
-1 5/8" primary tube headers w/3" collectors
-TRW hi-vol. oil pump
-LT-1 mechanical fuel pump
-GM HEI, curved to the cam w/an Accell Super Coil
-Sealed Power forged pistons (yield around 10.0:1 w/ the 64cc chambers)
-stock crank and rods

-TH-350 (B&M Trans-Pack)
-GM "Vega" stall converter (flash speed, 34-3500)

I am planning on adding:
-MSD 6al
-Edelbrock Victor Jr.(always wanted one)
-Holley "blue" fuel pump and regulator
-a split duration cam w/a little less duration but with more lift (I want to
keep the hp peak below 6200 and build for torque)
-Dart II Sportsman heads
-and eventually put most of this into a 406 w/ a really tough bottom end.

--I was wondering if anyone had any info about a comparison between Dart
Sportsmans, GM Bowties, and the Crane Fireball heads.  Initially the Dart II's
sounded the best, but I could get the Bowties for about $100 less.  I also
heard that the Crane heads were Dart Sportsmans w/some exhaust and bowl
work....what's the scoop?......any responses would be greatly appreciated!

Mark Holman....'72 RS Z-28....



----------
Posted by: emory!VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU!KOOLGUY
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 10:40:10 1993
Subject: Scales and Stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5121
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Here's some info on scales;

Sears (as well as other stores) sells a bathroom scale made by Health-
O-Meter.  It is a strain gauge, digital, springless scale.  It has a
five year warranty.  Stock number 6497.  Cost is $24.99.

I opened on up and it has a little cantilever beam with a strain gauge.
You tap the scale, it turns on and zeros itself.  When the scale reads
zero, apply weight.  The reading stays on as long as load is applied
and updates display about every 3 to 4 seconds.  Max load is 300 lbs.

There was an ad in Circle Track Mag for some multiplier arm type of
scales.  The guy is making them for $60 per wheel.  Mike Fitzpatrick
(503) 882-2357.

Speedway Engineering sells a load checker for $135.  They have them
in 300, 600, and 1000 lb capacity.  I'll probably purchase on of these.

** I am not affiliated with any of these companies/people.

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 16:41:23 1993
Subject: brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5122
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The topic of crankshaft materials reminds me of something that I've been
wondering about for awhile. What are disc brake rotors typically made of?
I've heard that one of the primary causes of rotor warpage at high temps
is due to the fact that the original castings may not have been properly
"stress relieved". Can someone describe what this process involves, and
is it possible to have this process re-applied to a new set of rotors
prior to installing them on a vehicle that is going to see hard brake
usage?
Also, what is the wisdom on milling gas sweeping slots into the surface
of the rotor. What about drilling holes in them? Will either of these
pratices cause more problems than they are intended to solve?

Thanks...

Greg Granville
gag@arlvax.psu.edu

----------
Posted by: GREG GRANVILLE 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 16:52:06 1993
Subject: Re: drag/slalom pickup
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5123
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Mark Looper writes that he is interested in a 65 El Camino.
Wow, I've a 65 Camino since 1974 and love it dearly.
It has a 327 w/ isky cam, 11.5 trw slugs 1.94" heads, Turbo 350,
ps/pb/air, factory tach, gauges, tilt, air, wood wheel.
I've put the swaybars from a BB chevelle, boxed lower control arms
and a/c springs. It's no Corvrtte but it handles decently. It has a 12 bolt
posi w/ 3.73's. I would love to talk El Caminos with you cause I know them
well being I did a frame off on mine.
Frank

----------
Posted by: emory!OAS.PSU.EDU!FBS3     (SZYMKOWSKI.FRANK)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 17:00:29 1993
Subject: Structural Integrity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5124
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


   Well, now that the weather has finally gotten warm, I got to drop
the top yesterday.    My Olds now feels much "looser", with 
a lot more body flex than it used to have.     
   
   While I was under it today, I noticed that most of the body mounts
are cracked/squished.    Therefore, I plan on replacing them soon.

  Will replacing them help reduce body flex/twisting?

  Will poly-urethane body mounts squeak?  (like the control arm ones)
    Is it worth the extra cost?

  Without adding a roll bar, what can be done to make the car 
   a little stiffer?

                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Apr 26 17:08:21 1993
Subject: NHRA Southern Nationals
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5125
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Here's the wrap-up of the Southern Nationals.  Sorry I didn't get Saturday's
qualifying data posted Saturday night.  I got in real late, was kinda
fried and found dixie.com in a slightly crashed state.  Figures.
Anyway, here's the poop.  First the final qualifying data.

Funny Car, Saturday Final

        # Driver           Car              Engine       ET     MPH
 1.     5 Chuck Etchells   93 Daytona       KB    500    5.099  291.07
 2.     2 John Force       93 Cutlass       KB    490    5.120  290.32
 3.   606 Gordie Bonin     93 Daytona       KB    500    5.148  286.53
 4.     3 Al Hofmann       93 Oaytona       KB    500    5.163  290.88
 5.   217 Freddie Neely    92 Probe         KB    500    5.185  279.58
 6.     4 Del Worsham      92 Cutlass       KB    496    5.218  287.44
 7.   782 Gary Densham     93 Cutlass       KB    500    5.241  274.64
 8.     9 Whit Bazemore    91 Probe         KB    500    5.242  280.28
 9.   213 Jim Epler        92 Daytona       KB    500    5.281  266.11
10.     1 Cruz Pedregon    93 Cutlass       KB    500    5.305  259.74
11.    10 Gary Bolger      93 Trans Am      KB    496    5.344  272.39
12.   222 Paul Smith       91 Cutlass       KB    500    5.380  273.88
13.   385 Gary Cellone     93 Daytona       KB    498    5.402  270.02
14.     6 Tom Hoover       91 Daytona       KB    500    5.417  260.11
15.     8 Gordon Mineo     93 Firebird      JP-l  496    5.418  265.40
16.   132 Jerry Caminito   93 Cutlass       KB    500    5.422  273.72
---CUT---
17.   506 Jack Wyatt       91 Daytona       KB    497    5.686  232.91
18.   310 Rick Krahe       91 Daytona       K8    498    5.798  266.19
19.   888 Kenji Okazaki    93 Daytona       KB    500    6.167  155.44
20.   305 Dean Skuza       91 Probe         KB    500    6.391  155.89
21.   208 Gary Litton      92 Probe         K8    500     DO


Top Fuel, Saturday Final

          #   DRIVER              CAR              MOTOR        ET      MPH 
  1.      319 Scott Kalitta       91 Hadman        KB    500    4.857   295.08
  2.        4 Eddie Hill          93 Uyehara       JP-l  498    4.872   293.06
  3.        3 Kenny Bernstein     93 Swindahl      K8    500    4.877   297.42
  4.      738 Rance McDaniel      92 Swindahl      TFX   500    4.884   300.10
  5.        1 Joe Amato           93 Swindahl      KB    500    4.890   300.90
  6.        7 Pat Austin          93 WAR           WAR   498    4.926   299.10
  7.        8 Michael Brotherton  92 Swindahl      Dodg  496    4.945   278.03
  8.        5 Ed McCulloch        93 Swindahl      KB    500    4.947   285.71
  9.      768 Mike Dunn           92 Uyehara       Dodg  500    4.958   288.09
 10.      736 Shelly Anderson     93 Uyehara       BAE   500    4.963   282.30
 11.       10 Dannielle DePorter  92 Hadman        KB    500    4.972   289.48
 12.       9B John Andretti       90 Swindahl      KB    500    4.996   298.90
 13.      503 Tommy Johnson Jr.   91 Swindahl      KB    500    4.997   277.94
 14.      4B4 Jimmy Nix           93 HcKinney      JP-1  500    5.017   257.65
 15.      712 Don Prudhomme       93 Swindahl      KB    500    5.020   266.98
 16.      303 Pat Dakin           88 Don Long      KB    500    5.023   284.18
---CUT---
 17.        9 Doug Herbert        93 Swindahl      KB    5D0    5.049   292.87
 18.      108 Bruce Larson        92 HcKinney      JP-1  500    5.068   287.35
 19.      107 John Carey          93 Rowe          KB    498    5.101   277.69
 20.      223 Mike Smith          92 Rowe          KB    498    5.109   280.81
 21.      301 Jim Head            93 Holt          KB    498    5.140   257.14
 22.      300 Jack Ostrander      92 Swindahl      JP-I  500    5.197   251.67


Top Alcohol, Saturday Final

          # Driver           Car              Engine       ET       MPH
 1.     484 Jeff Rapp        92 Cutlass       TFX   541    5.956    235.04
 2.       1 Bob Newberry     93 Achieva       BNR   526    5.974    231.54
 3.      10 Chuck Cheeseman  91 Oldsmobile    KB    541    5.976    230.71
 4.       3 Tony Bartone     91 Trans Am      BNR   541    5.989    233.46
 5.       2 Pat Austin       93 Achieva       WAR   540    5.998    235.17
 6.      33 Al Dapozzo       93 Achieva       KB    542    6.000    233.64
 7.     232 Gary Rettell     92 Daytona       Dodg  54D    6.013    233.22
 8.       8 Frank Manzo      93 Daytona       Dodg  533    6.023    234.07
 9.     700 Randy Anderson   93 Formula       BAE   542    6.066    237.40
10.     450 Joe Penland      93 Achieva       KB    526    6.097    228.31
11.      22 Terry Mullins    93 Achieva       BAE   542    6.114    230.29
12.       5 Danny Townsend   93 Pontiac       JP-1  526    6.162    229.00
13.      34 Tim Wilkerson    93 Firebird      BAE   526    6.167    226.18
14.     424 Michael Fialho   93 Daytona       Chry  540    7.496    128.62


Pro Stock, Saturday Final

         # Driver              Car            Engine       ET      MPH
 1.      1 Warren Johnson      93 Cutlass     Olds  499    7.126   194.30
 2.      2 Scott Geoffrion     93 Daytona     Dodg  49&    7.145   193.38
 3.     21 Kurt Johnson        92 Cutlass     Olds  499    7.152   192.18
 4.    124 Frank Iaconio       93 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.161   192.02
 5.     15 Joe Lepone Jr       93 Beretta     Chev  498    7.182   192.22
 6.      7 Mark Pawuk          92 Cutlass     Olds  498    7.191   191.89
 7.    299 David Rampy         93 Cutlass     Chev  499    7.204   190.43
 8.      8 Bruce Allen         93 Lumina      Chev  498    7.205   192.47
 9.      5 Bob Glidden         91 Probe       Ford  497    7.207   192.22
 10.   244 Mark Osborne        93 Cutlass     Olds  498    7.207   191.53
 11.     6 Larry Morgan        93 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.219   191.48
 12.    10 Rickie Smith        93 Trans AM    Pont  499    7.221   190.67
 13.  3682 Ray Franks          90 Camaro      Pont  500    7.227   191.44
 14.   303 Rusty Glidden       91 Probe       Ford  497    7.228   192.18
 15.   200 Vince Khoury        93 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.233   192.47
 16.   353 Lewis Worden        93 Oldsmobile  GM    498    7.236   190.19
---CUT---
 17.   381 Jerry Haas          92 Trans AM    Pont  500    7.242   191.20
 18.   257 Gary Brown          92 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.250   191.73
 19.   207 Mike Thomas         93 Cutlass     GM    499    7.257   190.63
 20.   714 Harry Scribner      92 Trans Am    Olds  496    7.261   188.95
 21.     3 Jerry Eckman        92 Trans Am    Pont  500    7.274   190.75
 22.     9 Jim Yates           93 Firebird    Pont  498    7.278   189.15
 23.   221 Morris Johnson Jr   91 Cutlass     Olds  500    7.282   188.52
 24.   752 Gordie Rivera       93 Beretta     GM    500    7.294   189.83
 25.   189 Paul Rebeschi Jr    90 Grand PriY  Pont  500    7.298   190.S9
 26.   315 Steve Schmidt       92 Cutlass     Pont  500    7.298   185.07
 27.   781 Greg Thomas         93 Cutlass     Chev  500    7.315   189.83
 28.  1525 John Nobile         93 Cutlass     Olds  498    7.338   189.11
 29.  1123 Bob Perry           90 Grand Prix  Pont  498    7.344   188.40
 30.   449 Tim Jost            93 Beretta     Chev  497    7.364   186.83
 31.   260 George Bryce        92 Lumina      GM    500    7.397   184.65
 32.   204 Kevin Sparks        89 LeBaron     Chry  499    7 99Z   177.20


----------------------------------------------------------------

Sunday Final.  

This will be brief because the ladder sheets can't be scanned.  Astericks
indicate wins.  Some information is not complete because we had to leave
before the final time sheets were posted so I'm having to take final
round times from dictation.  BTW, if you watched the finals live
on TNN, you saw me.  I was the big dude with the beard, in a black stripped
shirt and blue pants standing right at the tree on the left lane.  
That was an "interesting" place to be during the fuel rounds.

Top Fuel

1st Round

Kalitta vs Dakin*
McCollouch vs Dunn*
McDaniel vs Johnson*
Amato vs John Andretti*
Hill* vs Prudhomme
Brotherton* vs Anderson
Bernstein* vs Nix
Austin* vs DePorter

2nd round

Dakin vs Dunn*
Johnson vs Andretti*
Hill* vs Brotherton
Bernstein* vs Austin

Semi:

Dunn* vs Andretti
Hill* vs Bernstein

Final 

Hill*  4.89/290.93
vs 
Dunn   9.09/88.7  (smoked the tires)


Funny Car

1st Round

Etchells* vs Caminito
Bazemore* vs Epler
Hoffmann* vs Cellone
Neely* vs Smith
Force* vs Mineo
Densham vs Pedregon*
Bonin vs Hoover*
Worsham vs Bolger*

2nd Round

Etchells* vs Bazemore
Hoffman vs Neely*
Force* vs Pedregon
Hoover* vs Bolger

Semi:

Etchells* vs Neely
Force* vs Hoover

Final

Force* 	5.30/284
vs
Etchells 5.28/286


Top Alcohol Dragster

1st Round

Brown* vs McCornack
tortsveit vs Barney*
Baird* vs McPhillips
Hyland* vs Kosky
johnson* vs Lebor
Reichert* vs Vettorino
Payne* vs Edlemann
Conway* vs Hitchman

2nd Round

Brown* vs Barney
Baird* vs Hyland
johnson* vs Reichert
Payne* vs Conway

Semi:

Brown vs Baird*
Johnson vs Payne*

Final

Baird 5.92
vs
Payne* 5.86


Top Alcohol Funny Car

1st Round

Rapp* vs Fialho
bye vs bye
Bartone* vs Mullins
Austin* vs Penland
Newberry* vs Wilkerson
Rattell vs Manzo*
Cheeseman* vs Townsend
Dapozzo vs Anderson*

2nd Round

Rapp* vs bye
Bartone* vs Austin
Newberry* vs Manzo
Cheeseman* vs Anderson

Semi:

Rapp* vs Bartone
Newberry* vs Cheeseman

Rapp* 
vs
Newberry


Pro Stock

1st Round

W. Johnson* vs Worden
Allen vs Glidden*
Iaconico* vs Franks
Lepone vs Smith*
Geoffrion* vs Khoury
Rampy* vs Osborne
K. Johnson* vs Glidden
Pawuk vs Morgan*

2nd Round

W Johnson* vs Glidden
Iaconio* vs Smith
Geoffrion* vs Rampy
K Johnson* vs Morgan

Semi: 

W Johnson* vs Iaconio
K Johnson* vs Geoffrion

Final

W Johnson*   7.17/193
vs 
K Johnson    7.22/193

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Notes from Around the Track

MSD is now the exclusive US distributor for Rochester high flow, high
performance injectors.

MSD is now selling fuel system components including injectors, connectors,
injector mating fittings and weld-in mipples, adjustable fuel pressure 
regulators, rigid stainless steel fuel tubing, temperature sensors,
throttle position sensors, etc.  They are also now making an EFI trigger
distributor.  It contains a sensor that generates a pulse at 45 deg BTDC
on cylinder 1.

Holly #3210, 670 CFM throttle body for 87-89 GM pickup trucks with
TBI injection.  This throttle body is much better than the crappy
Pro-jection TB and contains an idle air control stepper.  It would be
a good choice for those wanting to do a TBI injection system OR 
for someone who wants to add port FI to a carburated engine.

Got the inside poop on the Holly Pro-jection from a reliable source.
MSD greatly regrets taking on that design job (MSD designed the 
ECU for the Pro-jection).  It was built to holly's spec.  Not only
did Holly spec a production cost but also a very low development
cost.  What Holly did, in effect, was to have a minimum system
designed so that they could get their name in the EFI market but
without having to actually do much.  Rumor has it Holly has a
warehouse full of take-backs.

Accel has a new "power processor" EFI controller designed for stand-alone
applications such as retrofitting carburated engines with EFI.  This is 
a speed-density controller and can be had in either open or closed loop
(lambda sensor) versions.  I could not get prices because the unit 
is very new.  The ECU is very small and uncomplicated so the price should
be reasonable.

VP Racing Fuels - trackside price check

VP Red - $3.50 gal/ 190.00 per drun
C-12 - 4.50 gal/ 235.00 per drun
c-14 - 5.25 gal/300.00 per drum
C-15 - 5.50/310.00 per drum
Nitro - 50.00 gal/1050.00 drum

Pat Austin set Top Fuel top speed record at 303.64 mph in the first round of
eliminations.

Atmospheric conditions were almost perfect with low temperatures, low
humidity and a light tail wind for most of the weekend.  Unfortunately
for the record book, the track developed a little "jink" at about the 
300 foot mark.  This made the Pro Stock bikes shake all over and
made the fuel guys back down to keep from smoking the tires as 
that spot was passed.

NHRA put the Junior Dragsters on the main program.  While obviously a 
crowd pleaser, placing the kiddie racing in the middle of the program
bumps many of the comp classes at the tail end or early morning end
of the program.  My stroll through the pits elicited many comments
from the racers.  Typical: "I've spent over $100,000 to bring 
a Super Comp car to this national.  Then I get upstaged by kids
running $2000 cars and by the time I got to run, the stands were 
empty of people, including potential sponsors.  Something's not fair."
I like the idea of a junior league but NHRA must figure out how to
make it work with the other classes.

The NHRA media machine is very impressive.  I have more information than
I could ever use.  Very good show.

They really do stop the racing for commercials when they do these
live broadcasts.  Novel concept.  Would be even novel-er if NASCAR
did that :-)

This was the first year of operation of the track by NHRA who bought it
last year from Gary Brown.  Most notable improvement was the sound system
which could be heard over all but the fuel cars.

Fairly reliable rumor has it there are plans in the works to lay a 
concrete surface the entire length of the 1/4 mile.  This will make
an outstanding race surface.

In the Pro Stock final, Warren Johnson beat his son Kurt by virtue of
a superior reaction time.  In the winner's circle, WJ said that his 
kid was bragging that he was going to put one on dad so he (WJ) 
had to teach the kid a thing or three.  He cut one of his best ever
reaction times.  

Eddy Hill noted in the Winner's circle that his old car, the Nuclear
Bannana, had over 500 passes on it.  Amazing.

John Force stated that they're going to the wind tunnel with their
car in an effort to be the first Funny Car to break 300 mph.
Who would have ever figgured?

Note:  I have massive amounts of data from the races that I've not
reported in this note.  If you have a question about some run,
let me know.

John

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 01:58:48 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5126
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

The brand new issue of SUPERFORD has an article which revolves around
this subject and addresses the issues that were discussed on the net 
a while back. Mike

>From classic-mustangs-request@mustang.fc.hp.com Mon Apr 26 12:23:54 1993
  The California Dept of Motor Vehicles (DMV) has opened an investigation to
determine the year of production of Carroll Shelby's new Cobras. The
investigation focuses on whether the cars can be considered continued
production of a 1965 model, and thus free from smog controls and crash-safety
requirements, or whether they are, in fact, 1992 model-year cars.
  The number of parts that were produced in 1991 and '92 and the number of
original Cobra pieces will likely be factors in the investigation.
  "That's the problem," said Rodney Laderas, a supervisor at the DMV's Division
of Registration and Investigative Services.  "In the past, for instance, we
would claim any car produced in 1993 is a 1993 vehicle.  But there are a lot of
things to consider here.  Was it remanufactured? If so, when? Which parts? The
engines, transmission, drivetrain, outer shell?
  "A lot of the Cobras were race cars, and were wrecked, so a lot of the parts
had to be replaced. Does that make it a 1993? I don't think so. But there are a
lot of things ongoing here, and it's too early to say anything."
  "All of them were sold as race cars," Shelby said, "and there are no
regulations on race cars. I've never sold one of these cars to be driven on the
street. Let them investigate all they want to.  As long as I don't sell them as
street-legal then there's no federal requirement, no state requirement, none of
that.
  "All I want is, I'd like somebody to state that I'm the manufacturer of the
car, not Brian Angliss."

=Ken=

----------------------------------------------------------------
Email: Ken Corpus:Wbst139:xerox / Internet: kc.wbst139@xerox.com
Internal mail stop: 139-25B /  Phone: ext 29105 or 8*222-9105
----------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 02:04:47 1993
Subject: Re: long rod 351W (question)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5127
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

X-News: mkvax1 alt.hotrod:1610

>From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
>Subject:Re: long rod 351W
>Date: Thu, 22 Apr 93 20:54:58 GMT
>Message-ID:

>[Offset pins work well and have been pretty standard in racing motorcyle 
>engines for over 30 years.  The problem with them is there is a strong
>rocking couple at BDC that causes strong slapping.  If there is just
>a bit of excess skirt clearance, the slap will break the skirt.  voice
>of experience talking.  Not much of a problem with high-buck racing
>engines that get new pistons fairly often but a REAL problem with 
>econo-motors operated by people with zero budget (me!)  I started mounting
>the piston reversed (a la street engines) in order to be able to run
>a season on a piston.  A little less power but no more broken skirts.

----I was wondering upon reading this what exactly was meant by reversing the
piston....is it assembling the motor w/ the piston mark (that little dimple on
the piston face) pointing towards the bottom of the motor or what?  It always
looked to me that most piston skirts were symetrical...whats the scoop?

[It means installing the piston with the directional arrow pointing
opposite the factory markings.  If the piston originally pointed
forward, then the piston is installed pointing to the rear.  Piston
skirts typically aren't exactly symetrical.  They are designed so the
piston will assume a round cylinder shape at operating temperature and
temperature gradient.  What strange cold piston shapes are required are
application- specific but in general, a cold piston tapers toward the
top and is wider across the skirts than across the sides.  The thrust
side skirt will sometimes have additional side clearances because that
side gets hotter.  But this stuff is not the issue.  The issue is where
the wristpin is located.  If it is not located on the centerline of the
piston, the pin is offset and the piston will bear a direction marking
of some kind.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU!KOOLGUY
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 02:11:20 1993
Subject: Automotive programs(ie.Quart.Jr.)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5128
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

To: Fellow bench racers...

I'm looking for some automotive software that helps develop engine and
performance combos.
I already have the Quarter Jr. program but am looking for more.  I heard about
2 other programs that are out there (The Dyno and Controlled Induction Jr.) and
was wondering if anyone out there had access to them (or others).
--PLEASE give me a hand w/ this I've read all my magazines and I can't get my
car out of storage for another 3 weeks.

----Mark..(c.o.KOOLGUY's account)
----The winter bench racer!

----------
Posted by: emory!VAX1.Mankato.MSUS.EDU!KOOLGUY
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 02:23:02 1993
Subject: RacePak vs. Cygnus Data Aquisition computers
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5129
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


In your article about the Southern Nationals I noticed that you mentioned 
that a lot of the racers were using the new RacePak computer.  I don't
understand what makes a Racepak so special.  I have been using a Cygnus
from ProSport Engineering on our Top Alcohol Dragster for over a year
now.  The Cygnus is less than one third the size of a Racepak, weighs
less, downloads in ASCII and costs about one quarter the price!!!  The
Cygnus computer provides 3 rpm inputs (engine RPM, output shaft RPM and
front wheel RPM), 3 pressure inputs (blower boost, fuel pressure and I	
don't know what to use the 3rd one for) and 8 EGT inputs.  Why pay sooo  
much for a RacePak?  What gives?!?!
  BTW, we qualified our Top Alcohol Dragster at the division 7 meet at
Bakersfield, CA last weekend with a 6.025 sec, 230.29 mph.  Our driver
is Michael 'Spike' Gorr, from Gorr Fuel Systems.  I've got the ASCII data
downloaded from the Cygnus if anyone is interested.



			Chris Demke
			Sun Microsystems
			chris@sundude.jpl.nasa.gov

P.S. Spike red-lighted in the first round of eliminations.  Oh well, that's 
why they call it racing, not winning...

[I would love to see your ASCII data dumps.  I have a previous generation
RacePak on my bench.  Based on what I've seen (things like uncompensated
T/C cold junctions, etc), I am underwhelmed.  There are three things
that make the RacePak dominant in this, the ultimate copycat sport:

*	Everyone else is using it.
*	It does not look like a computer and so does not trip the computerphobia
	present in LOTS of racers.
*	Kenny Bernstein's company is selling the thing.

Additionally, there are some benefits to getting a quick graphics dump
of the clutch speed or something like that instead of having to munge 
around with a laptop.  You just send out whomever has an extra pair of hands
to plug in the printer and let it run.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!sundude.JPL.NASA.GOV!chris (Chris Demke)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 02:31:21 1993
Subject: NHRA Southern Nationals - Friday
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5130
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> Today was my first day to attend an NHRA drag race as a "media scum" :-)
....
> ProStock
> 	    # DRIVER             CAR            MOTOR        ET     MPH
>  1.         1 Warren Johnson     93 Cutlass     Olds  499    7.126  194.30   
....
> 
> TOP ALCOHOL DRAG
> 
>  2.      1 Blaine Johnson     91 Hadman        Olds  528    5.817    236.15  
> 

Are these standard Olds big block motors or are they special racing
blocks?

--
Joseph P. Cernada	AIT, Inc.
914/347-6860		50 Executive Blvd.
cernada@ait.com		Elmsford, New York 10523


[I don't know specifically about those two racers but I do know
about Gary Brown's engines because I've spent a bit of time in his
shop.  He and WJ are good friends so I assume he does things 
pretty much the same way.  In the case of Gary's motors, both the 
block and heads are Brodix aluminum parts.  Nothing production about 
them.  I saw a Pro Stock engine and a large block chevy engine
sitting side by side in Gary's dyno room.  The big block looked
like a toy compared to the Pro Stock motor.  Everything looks the same,
only bigger.  Much bigger.  Probably the only thing Olds about those
engines are the dollars that built 'em :-)  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!shadow.ait.com!cernada (Joseph P. Cernada)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 12:43:44 1993
Subject: Re:  Structural Integrity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5131
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 My Skylark flexes quite a bit with all of the panels off. The frame doesn't
look like it can supply much torsional rigidity. I think whatever you get
is going to come from the body - firewall, driveshaft tunnel, rear axle hump.
If your floorboards are going... well, at least it won't fold like a unibody,
but it'll probably flex more than usual.

 Since body mounts aren't supposed to move, they shouldn't squeak either.
A mount that's gone or broken will sort of decouple the frame from the
body and make flex a bit worse. I figure on going with regular for mine;
in another 20 years it'll need another teardown anyway I figure.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 12:49:06 1993
Subject: Re: Structural Integrity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5132
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>    Well, now that the weather has finally gotten warm, I got to drop
> the top yesterday.    My Olds now feels much "looser", with 
> a lot more body flex than it used to have.     
>    
>    While I was under it today, I noticed that most of the body mounts
> are cracked/squished.    Therefore, I plan on replacing them soon.
> 
>   Will replacing them help reduce body flex/twisting?

It should, IMHO.  On a similar topic, the subframe bushings on my
beater 67 Camaro are totally shot (some are missing, too).  I've been
toying with the idea of making aluminum blocks to replace them,
since I can do that for free (courtesy of the SAE scrap cabinet).
Anyone have some pros/cons of doing this?  It seems like it would be
a good idea particularly if I plan to put in subframe connectors (the
floor is already completely rotted, so cuttting doesn't bother me).

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 15:27:46 1993
Subject: brake rotors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5133
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> What are disc brake rotors typically made of?

 The usual material is plain old gray cast iron.  It has near-ideal
thermal and wear characteristics.  Drawbacks are: rust, tendency to
heat-crack under severe abuse.

 Motorcycles sometimes use stainless steel brake rotors, but that's
purely cosmetic.  The stainless brakes are pretty, but their stopping
power sucks.


-> Also, what is the wisdom on milling gas sweeping slots into the
-> surface of the rotor. What about drilling holes in them? Will either
-> of these pratices cause more problems than they are intended to
-> solve?

 From the rec.motorcycles FAQ:

Q:  Are drilled or slotted rotors more efficient than solid rotors?

A:  There are many different reasons rotors are drilled or slotted.
    Sometimes the rotors are drilled to lighten them, though your weight
    savings is probably negligible.  Honda claims the discontinuities
    help braking in the rain and provide an escape route for mud or
rust.

    Fred Puhn's "Brake Handbook" says, "Some rotors have slots or holes
    machined into their contact surfaces.  These reduce hot-gas and
dust-
    particle buildup between pad and rotor.  Although fade caused by
    gas buildup is less for a disc brake than for a drum brake, some
    fade still occurs.  This is more prevalent with large brake pads,
    because the hot gas has a harder time escaping than with small pads.
    Therefore, slots or holes have greater effect in racing, where pads
    are large and temperatures are very high."

    Newcomb & Spurr's "Braking of Road Vehicles", 1967, tells us the
    mass of the rotor is the primary factor for preventing brake fade.
    When the rotor mass has absorbed enough heat, the brake will fade.
    Vented rotors and ducting schemes will cool the rotor faster, but
    it takes time; in rapid repeated braking cycles vented rotors do
    little better than solid ones.

    Carroll Smith's "Prepare To Win", 1975, says "Lately you may have
    seen discs with tangential slots milled in the friction surfaces
    or holes drilled in a tangential pattern normal to the friction
    surface.  This is an effort to wipe the "fireband" or boundary
    layer off the disc before it reaches the point of contact with
    the pad and to provide the very hot particles of friction material
    worn off with some place to go other than the operating area."
                                                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 15:37:57 1993
Subject: Re: Structural Integrity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5134
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In "Structural Integrity" you write:
"   While I was under it today, I noticed that most of the body mounts
"are cracked/squished.    Therefore, I plan on replacing them soon.
"
"  Will replacing them help reduce body flex/twisting?

yes.

"  Will poly-urethane body mounts squeak?  (like the control arm ones)

possibly.  probably?

"    Is it worth the extra cost?

depends on how you feel about squeaking.	;^>

"  Without adding a roll bar, what can be done to make the car 
"   a little stiffer?

replace the body mounts with polyurethane ones...
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of:	Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 15:47:49 1993
Subject: Re: Early Nova front ends
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5135
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Stuff deleted...

>
> Anyway, if someone knows a better (cheaper) way to add front steer and disc
> brakes to an early Nova, I'd sure appreciate it.

The following is a list of vehicles that can be scavanged for parts
for your disk brake conversion:

67-69 Camaro/Firebird
67-72 Chevelle, El Camino, Monte Carlo, Buick Special and GS, Olds
      442 and Cutlass, Pontiac GTO and Lemans/Tempest
68-74 Nova/Omega

If you are talking about '62-'67 Novas, then you have to change the
lower ball joint to one with a larger tapered end.

Since the lower control arm is so narrow, the only ball joints that I
had found that look like they could be made to fit, are the ones
with the round, press-in base.  You can send your control arms to
Global West Suspension Components, and they will modify them to
accept these ball joints for you.  Not sure on the price though.

Today a friend dropped off a book for me that had a threaded-in
ball joint used with a threaded adapter that could be welded to the
control arm.  It mentioned that Speedway Engineering sold these
adapters, but I haven't had a chance to contact them yet.  The book
was written in 1977, so who knows if the're still available.
Seen one of these or know of a source for them?  It looks like it
would really make things a lot easier.

Kevin.


Kevin Fultz
Sequent Computer Systems Inc.
kevinf@sequent.com

----------
Posted by: Kevin Fultz 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 19:31:14 1993
Subject: Re: Structural Integrity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5136
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

 Using aluminum or other hard mounts is liable to increase the noise level
by coupling the frame and running gear more directly to the sheet metal. 
The bunge of the rubber also allows slight body-frame shifts to happen
without all of the stress being concentrated at one spot. I think a hard
mount may cause more local metal fatigue. Of course my car appears to have gone 
for many tens of thousands of miles with some of them missing entirely...
didn't even notice until I took it apart and found some pieces didn't need
tools....

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 19:46:42 1993
Subject: THM400 for _TRADE_
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5137
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a THM400 transmission for _TRADE_

__OFFERING__
THM400 from a '79 eville, BOP pattern, short tail shaft
worked when removed from Caddy several years ago
I'll throw in a filter kit and driveshaft w/THM400 yoke

__WANT__
I want a good running THM350 
BOP or uni pattern, short tail shaft
Prefer recently rebuilt and shift kit

__WHY__
I want to replace the THM200 metric trans in my '80 Olds 
Cutlass S/W with a heavier duty trans with a minimum of 
hassle.  I was going to put in the THM400 (that's why I 
have the driveshaft), but the engine I will be using now 
will be a basically stock Olds 350.  I don't want to give 
up the extra horsepower to run the THM400 since I don't 
need the extreme durability of the THM400.  Future projects
planned will either be Chevy-powered or use a modifed THM700R4.

All offers will be considered.

I live in Sandusky (Huron), Ohio.  I drive regularly to 
Cleveland and Toledo and sometimes to Columbus and Indiana
(Portland, Jay County).  I would be willing to deliver/pick-up
within these constraints.

Need to act soon because the THM200 is acting up.

Days (216) 977-0036     Evenings (419) 433-7094
Email  tpcliff@lims02.lerc.nasa.gov   or 
       rmc1862@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!LIMS01.LERC.NASA.GOV!TPCLIFF
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 20:00:07 1993
Subject: Re: brake rotors (long)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5138
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 26, Greg Granville wrote:

> What are disc brake rotors typically made of?
> I've heard that one of the primary causes of rotor warpage at high temps
> is due to the fact that the original castings may not have been properly
> "stress relieved". Can someone describe what this process involves, and
> is it possible to have this process re-applied to a new set of rotors
> prior to installing them on a vehicle that is going to see hard brake
> usage?
> Also, what is the wisdom on milling gas sweeping slots into the surface
> of the rotor. What about drilling holes in them? Will either of these
> pratices cause more problems than they are intended to solve?

Brake rotors are usually your basic gray crummy cast iron. Rotors for
production applications are almost always sand cast, and do have some
built in stresses from uneven cooling- the automakers really are
primarily focussed on cost, so the quality of these guys is pretty
marginal. They are usually overweight to compensate. They have sand
inclusions, bubbles, prosities, and they are usually cast in one piece
with the hub- which leads to some nasty stresses whrn the OD is
incandescent and the hub is cold. It also leads to cooked wheel
bearings, pronto. They almost always exibit quite a lot of core shift,
which leads not only to balance problems but also to premature warpage
(due to one working surface heating more quickly than the other). This
is worsened in brake designs where the pads are asymmetrical, like my
Mustang- the driven pad is smaller than the slave pad, so the heat
loads differ on the two faces of the rotor.

The aftermarket rotors available for racing applications (Coleman,
Brembo, and other vendors) are usually a better class of materials-
some of the ASTM high-temperature cast irons are the norm. The best of
these are usually vacuum degassed to eliminate porosities that can
lead to cracking. These are also designed to run on a separate hub
adapter (the hat), which eliminates one major source of stresses and
also cuts the heat transfer to the hub and wheel bearings.

Warpage is usually caused by differential heating, and it's not clear
to me that any sort of stress relief can be made to work for any long
period of time. I have warped and cracked more stock Detroit rotors on
my track car than I care to think about, and I can't think of any
mechanical or thermal stress relief technique that might help them. I
routinely used to run the rotors well up into the bright orange
incandescent range- any rotor, no matter the quality of the original
casting, will begin to behave pretty erratically at these temps!

The best way to keep rotors alive is to keep them cool. _Massive_
quantities of air ducted right into the rotor eye, and kept there with
a blanking plate that more or less fills the eye, is the ideal. The
vanes will pump the air through the rotor and help with the airflow.
Wheels that help exhaust the hot air outboard help as well- my best
results on the stock rotors have been with the old Kelsey-Hayes
3-blade "blower" wheels- they were ugly as sin, but they moved a lot
of air out of the wheel wells. Keeping the rotors cool will also pay
amazing benefits in pad life. My finding has been that pad wear, even
with carbon race pads, goes up exponentially once rotor temps reach
about 800degF.

The next best way to keep rotors alive is to heat-cycle them very
gently. Take a lap to heat them up to working temps, and use the
cooloff lap to cool them gently. If you're on the street, and intend
on some heavy driving, the same rule applies- heat them gradually. An
absolutely guaranteed rotor killer is to do a max-effort high speed
threshold braking maneuver on cold rotors. Cast iron's thermal
conductivity is really pretty poor- so the surface will go up to
_insane_ temps, with the vanes between the faces still dead cold. The
thermal stresses are immense, and the stock low-quality casting won't
take it. Surface heat checking is the best you can hope for! I refer
to this kind of stop as "the rotor giving its life to save yours".

The last thing to help keep rotors alive is to work on your braking
technique. As you roll onto the brakes entering a corner, come on them
progressively and smoothly, and _slowly_ increase the pressure until
you get to the threshold. Luckily, this is also the best way to keep
the car balanced entering a corner, so it's a useful exercise in that
respect as well. If your braking style is one of planting th car's
nose _all at once_ when you get to the braking zone, you might want to
try working on braking a little easier, a little earlier at the start.
You'll find that you can then brake harder later in the corner, and
the wight will transfer more gently. 

It's a subtle thing, but what you're trying to do is to spread the
heat load in the brakes out over a little bit longer time- and more
improtantly, reduce its peak value. For the massive, 11/10s, fully
committed, hairy outbraking move, then do what you've gotta. But if
you aren't under pressure to pass or be passed, work on being gentle
and progressive with the pedal.

Drilled and milled rotors are great for racing, if done right. I'm
running nothing but carbon pads these days, on a very heavy car for
road racing, so playing with the rotors is not good for me. Drilling
can aid in cooling, and aids in fade control by providing a place for
the high temperature gases to escape to, but can lead to warpage and
cracking much earlier if the car is seriously underbraked. The holes
need to be drilled and chamfered in such a way as to avoid creating
new stress raisers, and I have never figured out how to do that very
well.  Milling consists of cutting a shallow groove in the rotor face,
also to provide a gas escape- I like this better, since it creates
less in the way of a stress raiser if a radiused groove is used. These
days, I just slot the _pads_ for fade control, and leave the rotor
alone. IMHO, for an underbraked car on stock rotors, drilling or
milling is a waste-you'll be throwing them away very soon, and the
removal of metal is almost certain to make that sooner.

Before I did good brake ducts, I used to go through a set of carbon
pads a day and a set of rotors in a weekend on my nice overweight
Mustang GT track car. With ducting, I get 4 days out of pads, and
about 4 out of rotors (using the stock rotors). I've since gone to
custom Coleman directionally vented rotors on custom hats, and I don't
have enough data yet to predict long term life, but it looks like I
might be able to keep pads on the car about 4 days, and the rotors
might last a season.  Which is the next best thing to _immortal_, to
me. I've got a pile of rotors that are cracked so badly you can see
light through 'em in the garage...

If you are going to run a stock 1-piece rotor hard, you _must_ use a
good high temp synthetic grease (Mobil One or Redline) on the wheel
bearings, and keep after them. Any stock grease will melt out and
blow by your grease retainer, leaving you with dry bearings. Been
there, done that, back when I first started playing with the car on
the track.

Hope this helps!

-skod

--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and sometimes driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@sun.COM

----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Scott.Griffith (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 20:09:00 1993
Subject: Swapping Pistons ...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5139
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I'm in the planning stage of rebuilding my Rover 3.5L aluminum V8
engine.  I would like to up the displacement a bit by boring out the
3.5 inch liners and pressing in liners for 94 mm pistons.  This will
give me approximately 3.9L. I'm trying to come up with a relatively
inexpensive source of pistons since I'm not too keen on paying the 100
pounds/piston the UK specialists are asking.

So far I've thumbed through an old Sealed Power catalog looking for
potential candidates, one of them being 94 mm Toyota Land Cruiser
pistons.  First question, I assume the abbreviated "Comp. Dist. = 1.87
in" in the catalog refers to the top of piston to wrist pin center
distance?  I using this number, plus a measured number from a Rover
engine piston, to keep the compression ratio in the right ballpark.
Second, is there an easy way to find out wrist pin diameter?  If the
piston wrist diameter is larger than the rod, can the piston be bushed
or are you basically stuck?  I've read that you can ream out piston
wrist pin diameters to compensate for small differences.

Finally, are there any other factors that need to be considered when
trying something like this?  Thanks for any information or comments and
I hope these questions aren't too elementary for this list. --rod.

-- 
Rod Barman, Dept. of E.E., University of British Columbia
rodb@salmon.ee.ubc.ca

----------
Posted by: emory!ee.ubc.ca!rodb
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Apr 27 20:14:15 1993
Subject: Re: Wheel stud question...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5140
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 27, 10:49, Akkana wrote:
> Subject: Re: Wheel stud question...
> Ulrich Wiedmann asks about wheel studs ... I was going to reply by email,
> but apparently other people are also looking, so I'll post it.
>
> (1) Get a machine shop to fabricate some for you.  I never had any success
> with this approach -- every machine shop I called said they couldn't or
> wouldn't do it -- but at that time I was just trying shops I picked out
> of the yellow pages.  If you know someone at a machine shop, or go to a
> racing oriented shop, you might be able to talk someone into it.
> They'll be expensive compared to the prefab ones at SuperShops.

This may be an unsave approach.  For something as critical as wheel
studs, the threads should be cold rolled, _NOT_ machined.

-Bob



-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:468-2222 | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-------------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-535-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com    |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.cs.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 28 08:37:51 1993
Subject: Re: NHRA Southern Nationals Olds motor??
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5141
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


> [I don't know specifically about those two racers but I do know
> about Gary Brown's engines because I've spent a bit of time in his
> shop.  He and WJ are good friends so I assume he does things 
> pretty much the same way.  In the case of Gary's motors, both the 
> block and heads are Brodix aluminum parts.  Nothing production about 
> them.  I saw a Pro Stock engine and a large block chevy engine
> sitting side by side in Gary's dyno room.  The big block looked
> like a toy compared to the Pro Stock motor.  Everything looks the same,
> only bigger.  Much bigger.  Probably the only thing Olds about those
> engines are the dollars that built 'em :-)  JGD]
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!shadow.ait.com!cernada (Joseph P. Cernada)

I believe this motor is a special motor that Warren Johnson and Oldsmobile 
developed a few years ago that uses alot of big-block chevy parts but improves
on some shortcomings. It uses bbchevy crank, special Olds heads, and some
other bbchevy parts. It is capable of from 350-640 cubic inches. You can
get one from G.M. if you have the cash.

----------
Posted by: emory!cray.com!rjm (Roger Mrdutt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 28 12:37:14 1993
Subject: Re: brake rotors (long)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5142
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

[excellent article on brake rotors deleted]

>Hope this helps!

>-skod
--
>Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware

It sure did... Thank you very much for the explanation. I've had
poor success with OEM rotors also. They run nice and true when cold,
but as soon as I get them toasty, they buckle badly... Not a nice
feeling when you're trying to go from 110 to 45 as quickly as
possible. I'll have to try a set of aftermarket rotors, and maybe 
I'll fabricate some air ducting.

Thanks again,

Greg Granville
gag@arlvax.psu.edu

----------
Posted by: GREG GRANVILLE 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 28 14:38:14 1993
Subject: Brake lines
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5143
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Well, after the recent discussion on SAE versus AN flares for
brake line plumbing, I twisted off and bought the Rol-Aire
flare tool from Aircraft Spruce. As I read the instructions
on this little $80. wonder, I noted with some consternation
that it is not for use on steel or stainless steel line.

As soon as my eyes re-focused and my heart rate slowed back
to normal, I thought "That can't be right ..this tool looks
too good to only work on sissy materials." But just to be on
the safe side, I figured I'd ask the person that made the 
original recommendation.

Also, you can buy AN tube nuts, sleeves and fittings in either
aluminum or steel. What is the best mix for converting a SAE
brake system to AN. I assume aluminum would be okay for the
tube nuts and sleeves, but what about the adaptor fittings and
tees that are required for the rest of the hardware? Any 
comments or suggestions?

Vic

----------
Posted by: emory!sierra.com!vcook (Victor Cook)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 28 14:47:34 1993
Subject: Rover 3.5 Rebuild/Displacement Increase
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5144
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


I remember reading somewhere that Buick, who originally designed this
engine, used crankshaft dimensions that were identical for both the
215 V8 and the Buick 300 V8, except for stroke.  You will have to check
the specs on this, but I recall that the 300 crank can be installed in
the 215 block.  The resulting compression increase would probably require
some piston changes.  

----------
Posted by: emory!digi.lonestar.org!castor!NWILMART (NED)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 28 14:54:09 1993
Subject: Re: Re: brake rotors (long)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5145
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

Great post!

mike

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 28 14:58:22 1993
Subject: Swapping Pistons ...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5146
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> So far I've thumbed through an old Sealed Power catalog looking for
-> potential candidates, one of them being 94 mm Toyota Land Cruiser

 The thing you're most concerned about is the compression height, or pin
height as it's sometimes called.  You can turn up to .080 off the top of
the piston if you have to, but you can't add metal by any practical
process.

 Pin diameters hang pretty close around an inch.  If the new piston's
pin is larger, just have the rod bored.  If it's smaller, have the rod
bushed.  No problem.  If you have to bore or bush, you can also have the
new hole moved just a little to shorten or lengthen the rod +/- .030 or
so to bring the deck height dead on.

 In other cases, you can swap rods too.  The usual case is to find a rod
with a smaller, wider big end.  Then you turn the crank down to the new
size, and narrow the rods.  It'd be better to widen the crank journals,
but that's usually several times more expensive than narrowing the rods.

 The L100/each price for pistons is severely silly.  Arias or Venolia
will custom make forged pistons for you in any bore, dome shape, and pin
height, for around $75/set.  Their prices aren't cast in stone, either -
they'll dicker with you on the phone.  Arias quoted me $615 for a set of
eight specials last year.  If you're looking at $300 for a set of
off-the-shelf forgings, plus another $100 or more in rod work, the
extra $200 for custom, guaranteed-correct parts doesn't look too bad.
                                                                                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 28 15:38:19 1993
Subject: RE: NHRA Southern Nationals - Friday
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5147
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

This is in regaurds to  the question about Olds racing 
big blocks.  

Olds produces (sells) a modified chevy big block with 
extra webing and I believe it s a tall block (truck 
block)  This is of the MarkIV design.  Warren Johnson 
was chief consultant in the design.  It is known as the 
DRHC or something like that.  The GM high performance 
parts catalog list the block in the Olds section but 
suggest getting a lot of the internals from Chevy.

The hot ticket for big block chevy racers is the new 
heads without siamized runners.  This allows better 
distribution of the air/fuel mixture as each runner 
looks about the same size.  Makes it look sort of like 
Ford heads.

Have I confused?  Most of the information is from 
magazines like Hot Rod.

.02
Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 28 23:14:47 1993
Subject: re: Olds Suspension
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5148
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu




>       Does this also apply to body mounts?   I thought that they only
> lubricated the suspension ones, since they tend to twist, not
> compress.

Hi Bob -
I'm not sure that you'll find many garages that will lift the body
up off the frame to lubricate body mounts!   But body mounts
both compress and shear side to side.  Anyone who knows what body mounts
are can do it in their own garage.  If you have the squeaky type mounts,
I recommend lubing the tops and bottoms with white lithium because it
doesn't attract dirt like most other lubricating compounds.  Most new
cars come with this stuff smeared on door hinges and contact points.
Between WL and silicone, you can quiet most any squeek.  Vaseline will
also work in a pinch, IMHO.

>
> >Typically, anti-roll bars are a cost-effective way to decrease body
> >roll during cornering.  I assume your Olds is a rear drive, solid axle
> >car?
>      'Bout all they made in '71.  8^)   I was acutally referencing a
> "roll bar", i.e. - thingy that keeps your head from getting crushed
> if you roll the car over.    Somehow, a 8 point cage in a convertible
> just don't seem right.....

Oops, I didn't catch the year of the car.  Sorry.

I understood that you meant a minimal roll cage.  Perhaps I confused
the issue by my use of "anti-roll" bars instead of "sway bars" or
"anti-sway bars"?  I use "anti-roll" because the bars address body
roll.  Generally I call stuff inside the frame "roll cages."  While
roll cages can't always stop a car from rolling over and over, they
too will lessen body roll.  Of course, this comes at the expense of
weight, entry, ride quality, and cosmetics.  Unless you drag race
the Olds under 12 seconds, even a six point cage seems excessive.
But...
I barrel-rolled my Corvette a couple of years ago off an oil patch
on a curve.  Glad I wasn't in a convertible, or I wouldn't be here
posting you! (grin)

>      Yep.    Sears gets my shocks back about once a year.   Thank
> god for the lifetime warrenty!
>
Gabriel makes a great set of gas shocks for half the cost of Bilsteins
or Konis.  If you want to try a new shock, they are a great bang for
the buck (this from a die-hard Bilstein fan).

Have you ever read Puhn's "How to Make Your Car Handle"?  If not, you'll
probably learn more than you'll ever need about suspension systems.  If
so, never mind! (grin)

Good luck with dusting off your Olds classic.

Eric Webb
ewz@nccibm1.rtpnc.epa.gov

----------
Posted by: ERIC WEBB 919-541-7896 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Apr 28 23:24:08 1993
Subject: Re: Brake lines
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5149
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

On Apr 28, The Hotrod List wrote:

> Well, after the recent discussion on SAE versus AN flares for
> brake line plumbing, I twisted off and bought the Rol-Aire
> flare tool from Aircraft Spruce. As I read the instructions
> on this little $80. wonder, I noted with some consternation
> that it is not for use on steel or stainless steel line.

I'll look at the poop sheet that came with mine, if I can still find
it, tonight. I remember no such prohibition on mine. Anyway- if you're
not supposed to use it for steel or stainless, then the Rol-Aire folks
will just have to come and haul me away, kicking and screaming. I've
been using it on both steel and stainless, wth uniformly good success,
since 1987. That's about 8 cars' worth of flares.  Haven't hurt the
tool or myself yet. I'd say go for it, and ignore the instructions.

By the way, I was originally turned on to the tool for steel hard
lines by reading Carroll Smith's car prep series, and he intimates
that it's his tool of choice for flaring steel. So if it's good enough
for him...

> Also, you can buy AN tube nuts, sleeves and fittings in either
> aluminum or steel. What is the best mix for converting a SAE
> brake system to AN. I assume aluminum would be okay for the
> tube nuts and sleeves, but what about the adaptor fittings and
> tees that are required for the rest of the hardware? Any 
> comments or suggestions?

Steel. Steel everywhere. Nuts, sleeves, tees, unions- everything. In a
pinch, there are some brass fittings that can be used, but _only_ if
the steel equivalents aren't available. Not even the weight-mad F1
guys use aluminum- they go straight from steel to titanium.

The aluminum stuff isn't really suitable for brake use, at least for a
heavy car that sees roadracing duty. Some light cars may use it, or
cars that seldom use their brakes (sprint cars sometimes use it). You
can make a judgement call based on the weight of the car, and its
intended use, but in my book the braking system is the wrong place to
shave ounces...

The only aluminum I use is in the castings that I can't get away from,
and I keep a _very_ close eye on the threads for the banjos and
nipples. Brake system pressures can get well up there, and the
cyclical loading is not your friend.

-skod

--
Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware
expatriate SCCA New England Region Flagging/Communications worker
(and sometimes driver, of anything that turns both right and left,
and can pass tech...) Return Path : skod@sun.COM

----------
Posted by: emory!Eng.Sun.COM!Scott.Griffith (Scott Griffith, Sun Microsystems Lumpyware)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 29 08:40:23 1993
Subject: Re: Structural Integrity 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5150
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

--------

   In message  , you write:
 
| It should, IMHO.  On a similar topic, the subframe bushings on my
| beater 67 Camaro are totally shot (some are missing, too).  I've been
| toying with the idea of making aluminum blocks to replace them,

Be careful of the dissimilar metal problems. I find frames
always tend to rust/corrode heavily at the body mount locations
as it is. As I understand it, the dissimilar metal problem is
the motivation for using composite graphite spacers in body
lifts for 4x4 trucks/jeeps/etc.

                                       John S Gwynne
                                          Gwynne.1@osu.edu
_______________________________________________________________________________
               T h e   O h i o - S t a t e   U n i v e r s i t y
    ElectroScience Laboratory, 1320 Kinnear Road, Columbus, Ohio 43212, USA
                Telephone: (614) 292-7981 * Fax: (614) 292-7292
   Girls, Dirt Bikes, Jeeps, and Democracy. Is this a great Country or what?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: John S Gwynne 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 29 12:38:45 1993
Subject: 305 heads on 350 block?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5151
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I have a 305 (TPI) that kicked the bucket.  I'm having difficulty finding a
reasonably priced rebuilt 305 short block with the necessary flat-top pistons,
so I think I'll go with a 350 sort block.  I know that a 350 with flat-top
pistons would give too high compression with the 305 heads.  Will a dished-
piston 350 (stock mid-80's) give decent compression with these heads?
The 305's original compression was 9.5:1.  Thanks in advance.

Wynand DePuy
   wdepuy@isye.gatech.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!chmsr.isye.gatech.edu!wdepuy (Wynand Crawford Depuy)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 29 16:42:59 1993
Subject: Buick 215/Rover 3.5L comments
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5152
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


First, thanks to everyone ...  Perhaps, I should have mentioned that I 
have the Hotrod article, the Hardcastle Rover Book and info from various
tuners in the UK.  I've also chatted with Phil Baker on the phone a couple
of times.

If you look carefully at the the Hotrod piston/crank chart, you'll
notice that there is no piston listed that is approximately 94mm and
will give you a decent compression ratio with the stock crank.  The
Ford 255 pistons have a compression height of around 1.5 in while the
stock Rover pistons are at approx 1.8 in.  By the way, the reason I'm
picking 94mm is because I have read that that is the maximum size one
can safely sleeve to without breaking into the water jackets.  It is
also the size of the new Range Rover 3.9L pistons.  The 94mm Toyota
pistons look like a perfect match.

I do not want to change to the Buick 300 crank because the rear of the
block has to be modified and the crank hangs far enough out the back to
be a problem.  I'm also not interested in drastically changing the
intake, exhaust, heads, etc. at this point.  There is a Rover stroker
crank available in the uk but it is around 600 pounds.

I have a couple more questions.  What is the margin of slop that a
Felpro head gasket can handle?  Would a change from 88.9 mm to 94 mm
require more than trimming?  What is a good compression ration to aim
for given the engine and heads are aluminum and I'm planning on using
94 pump octane gas?  Currently the car is 10.5:1 and last time it was
running seemed fine with 94 and a little bit of timing retard. I was
thinking of around 9.5:1 to 10:1.  Finally, does switching to a
composition gasket like a Felpro from the stock steel shim gasket
really have a significant effect on compression ratio?  According to my
calculations that switch alone would lower the compression ration to
9.7:1 from 10.5:1.

Again, thanks for any comments ...

-- 
Rod Barman, Dept. of E.E., University of British Columbia
rodb@salmon.ee.ubc.ca

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Posted by: emory!ee.ubc.ca!rodb
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 29 17:40:05 1993
Subject: Re: Structural Integrity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5153
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

> 
> --------
> 
>    In message  , you write:
>  
> | It should, IMHO.  On a similar topic, the subframe bushings on my
> | beater 67 Camaro are totally shot (some are missing, too).  I've been
> | toying with the idea of making aluminum blocks to replace them,
> 
> Be careful of the dissimilar metal problems. I find frames
> always tend to rust/corrode heavily at the body mount locations
> as it is. As I understand it, the dissimilar metal problem is
> the motivation for using composite graphite spacers in body
> lifts for 4x4 trucks/jeeps/etc.

Hmmm, how about covering the contact surfaces of the spacers with
carbon fiber (probably wet layup with Derakane 8084)?

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \ "Turbos are nice, but I'd rather be blown!" /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

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Posted by: emory!gnu.ai.mit.edu!lusky
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Apr 29 17:47:29 1993
Subject: Re: MSD ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5154
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Sorry for bringing this up again, but I was wondering what the final
consensus was regarding MSD ignitions on mild performance engines.
(Ie GM pushrod V8's w/ HEI)  Everything I have read indicates that
at the very least I should expect a smoother idle and increased efficeincy.
What results can I expect? (ie.. would this result in one or two tenths 
quicker in the quarter mile?)

I'd like to hear opinions on the potential performance gains this may offer.
I have heard that MSD wont signifigantly improve power in quench type combustion
chambers but, anywhere from 3 to 5 percent gains in power for open type chambers.

Can anyone substantiate/explain?

BTW a local supplier says a complete kit designed to work in tandom w/
the existing reluctor and pickup will run $209.95  Is this reasonable ?

Appreciate the help,

Ericy
      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
      |                         \,  _}                              |
      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*

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Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 30 02:40:35 1993
Subject: Re: Structural Integrity
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5155
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


talk on aluminum body mounts deleted...	

I have one item i've used in place of the "stock rubber" body mounts...
A hockey puck. They are considerably stiffer, last "forever", and are very
customizable. I have used these on a variety of vehicles, and they have never 
been removed due to failure. 

	The first vehicle I used these on was a fiberglass bodied Jeep CJ-5.
I raised the body 3" with the hockey pucks. It was considerably cheaper than
buying a 3" body lift. You can walk into a sporting goods store (at least in 
Mass) and buy hockey pucks in bulk for around $1 a peice...

	My friend just used this idea (hockey puck) on his GTO. had to cut them
in half, drill a hole, and narrow the circumference a little bit. They worked 
for us. No more changing "squishy" mounts for us...

-dan a.
dhoward@sw.stratus.com



----------
Posted by: Dan Howard 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 30 03:04:45 1993
Subject: 305 heads on 350 block?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5156
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


-> so I think I'll go with a 350 sort block.  I know that a 350 with
-> flat-top pistons would give too high compression with the 305 heads.

 Give me the casting numbers, and I can probably find out the nominal
chamber volume.  Then you can just look in the CR chart in the piston
catalog and find the CR.

 Even better, go to your local pharmacy and ask them for a 100cc
syringe.  That's about the size of a small flashlight.  There are laws
against "drug paraphernalia" here, but once I explained what I wanted it
for, one of the local pharmacists gave me one for free.  They're great
for checking chamber volumes, and they also make dandy squirt guns...
                                     

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Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 30 04:39:53 1993
Subject: New fuel injection tester software available
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5157
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In preparation for the publication of Volume 1, Issue 2 of my magazine 
(finally!), I've posted a new and greatly improved version of the 
software that drives the fuel injection flow bench project presented in 
Issues 1 and 2.  This version 2.0 is an almost complete rewrite 
of the package that fixes many bugs and adds some very significant
new features.  Among them is the capability of using a gasoline flowmeter
to measure the injector flow and the capability to execute script files.
These two capabilities enable one to automate the testing of fuel injectors.

Another new package added is FITFOTO, software that works with the flowbench
and a stroboscope to permit the observation of the injector discharge
pattern and to photograph those patterns.  

to get these files, send mail to listserv@dixie.com.  In the body of the 
message include the following statements:

get fit.zip
get fitfoto.zip

To also get a directory of other files available include the command

index

John

[Dave, I'll put a disk in the mail for Courts of Chaos.]

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 30 14:43:16 1993
Subject: Head porting - dynamic flow
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5158
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

In everything I have read about cylinder head porting, the flow
benches that are used (and the flow results) are based on
a static valve opening and a 'constant' flow.  I was thinking about
this the other day, and I wondered what the correlation was to
the 'dynamic' (pulsed) flow of the port.  That is, will a porting
mod that yields a 'constant flow' improvement still result in an
improvement in the 'dynamic flow' of a running engine?

In exhaust systems, you can put an 'H' pipe at the spot where the
paint burns off first -- that's where the pressure waves collide.
Hotrod folklore says this is the best spot to locate the H pipe.
I don't think that spot would show up if you were trying
to choose a crossover pipe location using a constant flow.

Based on that, I would expect that flowing port mods might come up
with different information if the flow bench was set up to simulate
the operating environment.  The flow characteristics should even
change as the RPM changes - the 'resonant' flow pulse frequency (as
well as the harmonics) should flow differently.

Some of this is covered by intake manifold designs that vary the
runner lengths in an attempt to address this, but I have never
seen anything attempting to address porting mods directly.

Is there such a thing as a 'dynamic flow' flow bench?  Does it
show any appreciable difference than 'constant flow' benches?

Pat
patman@ctron.com
'64 Nova SS

----------
Posted by: "Patrick C. Mancuso" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 30 17:54:07 1993
Subject: "Ram-Air" systems
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5159
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu


Hi. There are several kits available for scooping
air from the front of a car and feeding it to the
air filter, presumably aiding in the breathing of
the motor. (Mine is a late model Mustang)

I know of one high performance motorcycle (the Kawasaki
ZX-11) that does this.

I have also heard of some kits being "affectionately"
called RAM-DIRT systems, because they purportedly
just fill up the filter with dirt, small rodents etc.

The concept sounds plausible, at least for a fuel system
that adapts well to the air flow.

What is the opinion of this august body?

joe

Joe Weinstein   joe@sybase.com   Sybase 1650 65th st.  Emeryville Ca 94608
        					       510-596-3620
COGITO ERGO SPUD  -- "I think therefore a yam"

----------
Posted by: emory!sybase.com!joe (Joseph Weinstein)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 30 18:02:59 1993
Subject: Pontiac 326 4V?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5160
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu



I haven't seen ANY activity on this list recently; is it still working?  At
any rate, I need to get the opinions of any Pontiac fans that might be out
there.

I'm faced with a tough decision: should I get a '66 Lemans or '66 Firebird?  I
like both cars and have wanted one for a while.  Well, there happens to be one
of each for sale locally.  I've taken a look at both, and they seem to be in
decent, average condition, with the Firebird perhaps a little worse for wear
(it definitely need a new interior).  The nice thing is that both cars are
completely original.  Now, they both have the 326 motor in them, and I haven't
the slightest clue about it.  Is it a good motor?  I intend to rebuild the
motor in whichever car I buy, although there's also a 400 listed in the parts
section.....

What's the general opinion of the 326?  Is it a good enigne to build up?  Are
parts available for it?  When did they stop making them?

Any help would be appreciated.

THanks,
Mike 

----------
Posted by: Mike Lee - Team Banana Racing 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 30 19:37:08 1993
Subject: RE: Head porting - dynamic flow
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5161
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

>In everything I have read about cylinder head porting, the flow
>benches that are used (and the flow results) are based on
>a static valve opening and a 'constant' flow.  I was thinking about
>this the other day, and I wondered what the correlation was to
>the 'dynamic' (pulsed) flow of the port.  That is, will a porting
>mod that yields a 'constant flow' improvement still result in an
>improvement in the 'dynamic flow' of a running engine?



>Based on that, I would expect that flowing port mods might come up
>with different information if the flow bench was set up to simulate
>the operating environment.  The flow characteristics should even
>change as the RPM changes - the 'resonant' flow pulse frequency (as
>well as the harmonics) should flow differently.

One of the problems with designing around resonance etc of exhaust systems is 
the fact that every change in your exhausts systems restriction ( each bend, 
T, muffler etc) creates a reflection.  Just imagine all the reflections and 
harmonics.  Maybe with solinoid operated valves you could simulate the real 
world situation.  What about fuel separation?  How would you model the 
air/fuel mixture.  I still think that porting is more of an art than a 
science.

[One issue IS how to model the sonic activity in the system but the actual
waveforms can easily be determined by the use of pressure transducers.
As far as the porting (as opposed to intake and exhaust systems) is 
concerned, fairly simple pulsating flow can simulate the environment
fairly well.  At least as important is flowing the same working fluid.
With carburators that means wet flow.  Even with port injection,
actual conditions are still important because of the disruption of the air
flow caused by the fluid injection.  I don't personally consider porting
as much an art as simply a process of trial and error.  JGD]

About extruded porting (I think thats what its called).  After it smoothed 
out passages wouldn't result in worse flow?  Just like rivers - older ones
meander more due to the water eroding on the outsides of bends.  

[Most engines that are candidates for the Extrude-hone process need
more flow capacity much more than they need refinements in flow patterns.
For racing engines, it has been widely held that a slightly rough 
port surface aids runability in carburated applications.  My experience
with racing motorcycle engines tends to confirm that theory.  The theory
is the roughness tends to break up laminar flow near the wall which
aids the evaporation of the still-liquid gasoline.  This should not
be an issue with port fuel injection.  Avoiding turbulent flow should become
the dominant issue.  Smooth surfaces and gentle transitions are the rule.
Observation of a Camel Light fuel injected Chevy racing engine at the 
Atlanta Grand Prix a couple of weeks ago tends to confirm that theory.
Intake ports were very smooth.  JGD]

Or don't I understand the process? 

Dirk

----------
Posted by: emory!STDVAX.GSFC.NASA.GOV!OADDAB (DIRK BROER)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Apr 30 19:42:33 1993
Subject: GM Bellhousing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
X-Sequence: 5162
X-Archives: ece.rutgers.edu

I need a bellhousing to mate to a '79 Chevy 350 SB engine. The
bore size is not important, since I'm adapting it to fit a
Ford four speed transmission.

I am looking for the version that can accomadate a 14" flywheel.

Does anyone know:
  What GM makes might have this?
  A good source for a used one?
  If I can weld one if it's cracked?

The local boneyards either don't have them or won't sell one
without the attached trans. I found one ($40) at a speed shop,
but it's cracked around the starter mount point...

Incidentally, the Chevy SB and Ford trans are going into an AMC
Jeep, so I'm used to doing things the hard way...

Mike
PS - Thanks for the helpful replies to my brake line question. Ya'll
     are great!

----------
Posted by: emory!geta.life.uiuc.edu!mrmike (Mike McCaughey)