From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 12:12:56 1993
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Someone talked about hooking up a Chrysler or GM HEI module to the Duraspark.
Are these modules any better than the duraspark module?  Would it just be 
better to run MSD 6A?  Or do I need both?  Also, what does anyone know about 
the MSD 5 module?  They seem to be a whole lot cheaper than the 6A.  Sorry for
all the questions.  Thanks.
Tom McClendon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

[Hey, don't worry about the questions.  That's what this list is for.  I'll
have to let someone else address the Duraspark but I can comment on the 
generic chrysler module.  I've used the generic chrysler module for
over a decade for everything from racing motorcycle engines up.
First a little background.

For electronically switched ignitions (as opposed to capacitor discharge)
where the coil is the energy storage element, there are only two 
major and two minor considerations.  The major ones are a) how much current
the pass transistor will flow and b) the dwell or how soon after the trigger
the ignition turns the current back on.  Just about every ignition system
I've looked at will pass more current than any commercially made coil 
will withstand so that is not really a consideration.  The sooner the
ignition switches back on after the trigger the better.  That is because
the inductance of the coil takes a finite amount of time to charge.
At high RPM on multi-cylinder engines, that charge time can approach 
the amount of time available between sparks.  (A reason why coil-per-coil
has become so popular)  There are "high performance" chrysler-style 
ignition modules sold for huge premiums (in the Summit catalog, Mopar
modules range in price from $39 to $79 compared to the $19 I pay
for mine) that claim more spark, stable dwell (who cares) and so on.
My measurements here in the lab shows that the generic module Rockhill
brand LX-101 (the cheapest I could find) turns the current back on
literally while the secondary ringing is still going on.

How much energy is delivered in the spark from an electronically switched
ignition is strictly dependent on the amount of current and the coil
inductance.  About the only effect the module can have on this is to 
switch the (-) terminal closer to ground.  The Rockhill module goes to 
within a few hundred millivolts of ground which is about as good as one can 
expect.  BTW, if there is an indication that there is insufficient 
spark energy in a drag racing or other short term environment, one
can increase the energy by reducing or eliminating the ballast resistor.
The coil will likely overheat over the long term so don't do it 
on the street.

The minor considerations are whether the module reduces the current at
idle and stop to protect the coil and whether the module actually
manages the charge in the coil.  Some brands of modules do this 
and some don't.  The original chrysler module DID.  
There is now a chip from Motorola available that does this and manages the
charge in the coil. That is, it figures out how much energy was used in the 
last spark and how much dwell is needed to fully recharge the coil 
and applies power accordingly.  I'm not aware of which modules use
this chip.  

The GM HEI-style module works equally well but is more trouble to use 
because it must be heat sunk.  On the other hand, there is a HEI module
combination used on some 84-87 GM trucks that listen to a knock sensor
and implement knock control.

Regarding MSD modules, I don't consider the MSD-5 to be any improvement 
over the factory modules.  They both deliver about the same energy.
The MSD-6 series is the all round best module for street and gasoline
fueled racing.  Lots of energy, fairly tolerant of low supply voltage
and reliable.  Note that the coil size does not matter with CDI ignition
because the coil functions only as a transformer and does not store 
energy.  The only size consideration is in regards to cooling.

The MSD modules will trigger from points, variable reluctor triggers
or the Mallory Unilite points substitute.

One thing to watch with all these modules is to correctly phase the variable 
reluctor pickup.  The waveform looks like this:


      /^\ 
     /   \
----/     \x      /------
           \     /
            \   /
             \ /
              V

The ignition should trigger at the zero crossing, point "x".  that is the
most stable point vs RPM.  If the polarity of the trigger is reversed, 
the ignition will likely trigger on the rising edge, the position of
which changes with RPM.  

Checking this is easy.  Take an old distributor cap and cut away some
of the side so that the trigger can be viewed but all leads are intact.
Install the cap and start the motor.  Hook a timing light to the center
lead and shine it on the trigger.  The image should show the teeth of
the rotor exactly aligned with the reluctor pole.  If it is advanced
or retarded from the pole, the phasing is wrong.  You should also see
the timing change with RPM if the phasing is wrong.  This is also
a good time to check the rotor phasing, that is, making sure the 
rotor aligns with a terminal when the spark triggers. connect the timing
light to the lead  nearest the hole and observe the rotor while the 
motor is running.  The rotor should be aligned with the terminal.  
Check it across the whole advance curve.  If the timing is off, it is
correctable by changing the position of the trigger vs the rotor.
Usually done with slotted holes in the pickup.

JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 12:45:43 1993
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Jetta (gawd I hate 'no subject line' :-)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> In the late 70's I read an article about an ex-NASA engineer who
> built and drove a hydraulic car.  He used a Volkswagen (Jetta??)
> as his platform.  The engine was Diesel and it ran a hydraulic
> pump which charged a pressure reservoir.  The reservoir was coupled
> through a throttling valve to four hydraulic motors, one on each
> wheel.  Braking was regenerative.  Engine starting was done by
> using pressure in the reservoir to motor the engine's pump.

I can't see how one would use hydraulics to store a pressurized
charge.  It seems that you would either need some hellatious
tank to take some serious press. (>10k psi), or not pressurize it that
much.  Unless you're talking about a pressure accumulator that
used a piston and spring (and maybe air-pressure on the other
side) to get any usable volume w/o having a 500 Lb tank in the
back seat (this would be akin to an Accu-Sump).  

> The car obtained 60 MPG (Diesel fuel is heavier than gasoline
> so that's about 70 MPG gasoline equivalent).

Am I the only one confused by this?  Are you saying that 'because
deisel fuel is heavier (I assume w.r.t. it's specific heat output),
carrying more of it around uses up another 10 mpg?'
If so, (and I can't think of another meaning to what you wrote) I don't
think that this is correct.  I am no chem-e, but I do beleive that
deisel has more specific heat output than gasolene.
And I do know that my dads old 78 rabbit diesel still gets ~55mpg
(with over 200k mi on it!) sans hydraulic-drive.

If I am just totally missing the point, could someone fill me in on it?

> I never heard anything more about this car.

Me neither.  I do remember an article in _Popular_Consenses_ concerning
a bus in sweden or finland or somewhere, that utilized harnessing the
braking energy that would normally be lost as heat, by running the drive
wheels to a clutch that, when accuated, engaged an air-compressor. The
compressed air was then stored in tanks until it was time to take-off
(not literally :-).  The compressed air turned the compressor, transmitting
the energy through the special clutch, to the wheels. (and away we go...)
In the same article, another bus was outfitted with a giant flywheel, and
used it to store energy of braking etc. (this seems more along the lines
of what your talking about...I think?!?!? since the engine was only used
to get the flywheel up to speed, and for maintaining flywheel speed).

Any way to cheat the system, I'm up for it :-)

DAVE (johnson@wrs.com) Internet Z-Club member #51

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 13:23:05 1993
Subject: Re: Would this improve internal friction?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams) writes:
" All Chevy 283s and early 327s came with offset pins to prevent piston
"slap when cold.  When the cam-ground piston was perfected they went to a
"central pin, though it looks like many of the benefits of the offset pin
"would still apply.

the pin is offset toward the *wrong* [;^>] side for noise reduction.

				pin offset
			 _______________________
		||	|			|
		||	|	     _   	|
		||	|	<-  (_)  ->	|
		||	|			|
		||	|     quiet -- power	|
		||	|      ___________	|
		||	|     /	    \	 \\	|
	       \||/	|    /	     \	  \\	|
		\/	|___/	      \	   \\___|
				       \    \
				        \    \
				         \    \
				          \    \
				           \    \
				            \    \
				             \    \
				              \    \


i read recently that chevy used offset pins on their recent ~350hp
crate motor when it came out, and [most] people today are so
unaccustomed to the sound of piston slap that early customers thought
the engines were about to self-destruct.  chevy changed the pin
location after only a few months.
-- 
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Andrew Hay	|	one step beyond the outer limits of the twilight       |
a_d_hay@att.com	|	zone in the darkened room at the night gallery	       |
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 13:32:40 1993
Subject: Forwarded: same number, different engine (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Forwarded message:
> From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb  4 16:47:15 1993
> 
> Not only did MoPar make two different 426s they also made two different
> 383s:
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
>  
> 
ummmmm, please refresh my aged memory...  please describe the 383s...  I'm also > not sure if I wanna accept bolting on a different set of heads as being
> 'completely different' (426 wedge versus 426 HEMI).  yeah, I know, some bottom
> end differences existed and cam... but if the *block* is identical I hesitate
> to call it 'completely different'.  now chrysler *DID* make two completely
> different 318s...
> 
> Walt K.
> -------
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)

My original post included this and I suspect John cut this for brevity:
(And foolish me forgot about the 318s, definately two different
engines.)
Aren't raised blocks different from low blocks?  (see below)
  

Seems like some topics keep coming up.
So what's the bore and stroke of a 383?
4.250x3.375  for the B
        or
4.031x3.75   for the RB

Hey,
      Here's some quotes from the 1959 Model Features Service Reference
Book 130:  (from about sept 1958)

DeSoto

Turboflash 383-cubic-inch V-8.  This is a new V-8 engine, and is used
with a two-barrel carburetor on the Firedome models.  It has a bore of
4.250 and a stroke of 3.375 inches.  It has a 10 to 1 compression
ration, and ignition timing is set 10 degrees Before Top Center.
      The same engine is used, with a four-barrel carburetor, for the
Fireflite models.  Compression ratio and ignition timing remain the same.
      When used in the Adventure model it is equipped with two
four-barrel carburetors, a special camshaft and a special intake
manifold.  This same equipment is available as optional equipment in
either the Firedome or Fireflite models when they are equipped with the
Torque-Flite transmission and a dual exhaust sytem.

Chrysler

Golden Lion 383.  This V-8 engine has a displacement of 383 cubic
inches, with a bore of 4.031 inches and a stroke of 3.750 inches.
Compression ratio is 10 to 1, and ignition timin is set 10 degrees
Before Top Center.  Premium fuel is required.  This engine, with a
two-barrel carburetor, is standard equipment in the Chrysler Winsor
models.
      The same engine, with a four-barrel carburetor, is standard
equipment in the Saratoga models.


Engine Number.  You will notice a distinctive numbering system for these
383-cubic-inch engines.  On the number pad of the engine you will find
the letters "ML" or "MR", followed by the number "383", and this
followed by the serial number of the engine.  The explanation is that
the 383-cubic-inch is used in several models, but with a different bore
and stroke combination.  Using a different stroke means that the
distance from the top of the block to the centerline of the crakshaft is
different.  Therefore, two blocks are used: one for the short-stroke
engine and one for the long-stroke engine.  All Dodge and DeSoto engines
of the 383-cubic-inch displacement class will have the "ML 383" marks
preceding the engine serial number.  The "M" is for 1959; the "L" is for
"low block" or the shorter stroke block.  Then used for certain Chrysler
models the marks "MR 383" preceding the engine number are used.  The "R"
designates the "raised block", or the longer stroke block.

It seems like all of these engines were available with two four-barrel
carbs.  I want one.  And this was 10 years BEFORE muscle cars.  But I
can't seem to locate much of this iron in the junkyards and I expect the
reason is that racers, and stockers from the early 60s and 70s knew
about these engines and picked the yards clean.  Then the crushers came
and took the sheet metal.  I know where there is a 58 (tower fin) Dodge
in a yard.  They are still out there, just getting scarce, that's all.

Tom Root

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 13:38:05 1993
Subject: Re: Red Ram Hemi
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> > 
> > Just DONT ASK about the engine ;-) Sorting out Chryslers hemis from the
> > 50s is a job for GOD, because even Chrysler is confused about it ;-)
> > Jim Davies
> >  
> 
> The Red Ram Hemi should be the 276.1 hemi called FireDome in Chryslers,
> but I can't tell for sure.  The Red Ram was also offered in 1954 and had
> a dealer option of an offenhauser four barrel manifold.
> Tom Root
> 
I checked several sources for the 1955 model year. And the sources conflicted,
of course. One implied that all Dodge V8s were hemis.

A second source suggested that the base Red Ram V8 was a Polyspheric head,
and only the SUPER Red Ram V8 (276) was a hemi. There was also a D500 
package indicated by a crossed flags emblem on the fender. The D500 package
was an upgraded suspension and maybe/maybe not some engine mods (that Offy
manifold?)

I thought that the Polyspheric engine was Plymouth only. I always wanted to
say I had a HEMI under the hood.

Somehow a POLY just doesn't cut it.  Sounds like a green bird on a tread
wheel that gets 25 miles per cracker!

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 13:43:07 1993
Subject: Re: 383cid SB Chevy - AGAIN
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>In article , you write...
>> 
>>-> 5) All factory 3.75" cranks were cast - for higher RPM's forged
>>->     ones  should  be  used. So you have to buy an custom-crank &
>>->     it could cost a few $$ bucks.
>> 
>> I don't really think cast vs. forged is an issue as long as you're not
>>experiencing detonation.  Other than a few extreme rarities, all Ford
>>and Pontiac cranks were cast (and rods too!) with no problems even in
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I could swear that the Ford rods are forged.  I'm almost positive the 302's
>and 351's rods are forged.  
I agree--Pontiac rods are *armasteel* which is cast iron, while all the ford
V8 rods I have seen are forged.

The only factory forged cranks fromFoMoCo are the
>BOSS 302/429 cranks, 
     -----------------> plus some 427 cranks, if I remember correctly ;-)

and the T'Bird SC's V6 crank (though as I understand it
>Ford forgot the art of forging crankshafts and had to go to Japan to get
>them.)
One of Fords *things* from years ago was successful substitution of
castings for forgings. They even tried it on the V12 aircraft engine
that Henry had developed for the P40 Ford was gonna licence build
in WW2. Too bad he cancelled it in a fit of pique ;-( That was one
interesting engine! Of course, 2/3 of it turned up in tanks later.
Be a good subject for your engines-of-yore serial, Dave.


>>NASCAR stuff, though I must concede nobody has run a Pontiac in NASCAR
>>for a long time.
>> 
>> Given two cranks at the same price it'd be foolish to pass up the
>>forged one, but I wouldn't get into a lather over it unless I was
>>building a real ground-pounder.
>>                                                    
>>
My sentiments exactly :-) 


Jim Davies

> 

----------
Posted by: emory!fraser.sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 13:48:53 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> On another issue: have found some info on high octane aviation gas,
>-> and its development and production in WW2. Would you believe octane
>-> ratings over 200 were available? Any interest in consuming bandwidth
>-> for this topic??

> How 'dey do 'dat?  Different rating system?
>                                   
Octane=100, as we all know, so apperantly anything above 100 octane is a
--Performance Number-- or, PN. The PN scale was not introduced until 1943,
although a predecessor was in use by the British. The PN scale was
introduced after the US Army/Navy specified a fuel with a lean rating of

100 octane and a rich rating equal to octane plus 1 cc lead. This was grade
100/125. The PN scale was developed because the military personnel were
confronted with the inability of making the brass 8understand that you could not assign an octane number to isooctane plus 1cc lead. Service personnel started to arbitrarily assigning octane numbers above 100, and so marking fuel trucks.
Chaos reigned, as different fields labeled fuel as 108 octane or any other
number, causing pilots to refuse the lower octane stuff as unsiutable. SNAFU,
anyone? Anyway, the army/navy and the brits got together and decided on th PN
system, where isooctane=100, giving 100% power in a supercharged engine, 
130 PN giving  130% power, and so on. PN numbers below 100 were evolved
later, but never were used in fuel specs. An example of lower PN is:
76PN=91 Octane

An interesting fact is that a water-cooled engine is often described
as mild, compared to an air-cooled engine, which is regarded as severe
in its octane, or PN demands *these are highly supercharged, high output
engines, of course* Anyhow, grade 115/145 avgas would effectively
be 145/145 in a mild engine, allowing around 40-45 psig manilfold
pressure, with intercooling, before detonation. Then, of course, there
was 150 PN fuel, which the brits used inpreference to Nitrous. Couldnt
catch a V-1 with a Spitfire using 100/130 gas, but fill it with 150 grade...
no problem :-) Further tinkering yielded 270PN fuel, which they never
were able to make detonate, although they busted lots of engines trying.
Allison used some of this stuff mixed with 100/130 to up the power on a
1710 from around 1500 HP to 2800 HP "for a short period" Bits were
coming out of engines, but not from detonation, they just werent strong
enough for the forces of normal combustion :-) Merlins put out 2200 HP
on about 45 psig manifold pressure, so the 1710 was getting about *SWAG mode*
say 65-70 psig at the intake valve.

Hope there are some fuel specialist type out there. Anyone?

Jim Davies




 >----------

----------
Posted by: emory!fraser.sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 13:55:15 1993
Subject: Re: To cast or not to cast 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


> Date:  Thu, 04 Feb 93 19:03:36 EST
> From:  Dan Malek 
> 
>
>> Date:  Thu, 4 Feb 93 18:11 EST
>> From:  Dave Williams
>> 
>>

>> What did these rods come out of?

>> I have half a dozen sets of 302 and 351 rods, and they're all cast.
>>                                                                   

>Hmmm...I will take a closer look, I have been pretty stupid lately :-(.
>The ones I have had in my hands recently are from 2.3L SVO 4-cyl engines.
>If they are cast, they are really clean castings, and I didn't think they
>were any special rod.  I will dig up a set of 302 rods I have (somewhere)
>and look at those as well.

Geeze....I hate it when this happens.  Dave is right, the rods are cast....
Well, most of them anyway.  I went to the machine shop last night and dug
through my box o' rods.  Aside from those I did not immediately recognize,
I found that the 302 and 351 rods were cast, the 4.0 V6 rods are forged,
and I can't tell what my 4-cyl SVO rods are because they have been polished
and shot peened, but I will suspect they are cast until I find out otherwise.
Thanks for the sanity check, and sorry if I confused anyone.

>>----------
>>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>> 


>	-- Dan


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 14:00:30 1993
Subject: Re: 383cid SB Chevy - AGAIN
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>In article , you write...
>> 
>>-> 5) All factory 3.75" cranks were cast - for higher RPM's forged
>>->     ones  should  be  used. So you have to buy an custom-crank &
>>->     it could cost a few $$ bucks.
>> 
>> I don't really think cast vs. forged is an issue as long as you're not
>>experiencing detonation.  Other than a few extreme rarities, all Ford
>>and Pontiac cranks were cast (and rods too!) with no problems even in
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I could swear that the Ford rods are forged.  I'm almost positive the 302's
>and 351's rods are forged.  
I agree--Pontiac rods are *armasteel* which is cast iron, while all the ford
V8 rods I have seen are forged.

The only factory forged cranks fromFoMoCo are the
>BOSS 302/429 cranks, 
     -----------------> plus some 427 cranks, if I remember correctly ;-)

and the T'Bird SC's V6 crank (though as I understand it
>Ford forgot the art of forging crankshafts and had to go to Japan to get
>them.)
One of Fords *things* from years ago was successful substitution of
castings for forgings. They even tried it on the V12 aircraft engine
that Henry had developed for the P40 Ford was gonna licence build
in WW2. Too bad he cancelled it in a fit of pique ;-( That was one
interesting engine! Of course, 2/3 of it turned up in tanks later.
Be a good subject for your engines-of-yore serial, Dave.


>>NASCAR stuff, though I must concede nobody has run a Pontiac in NASCAR
>>for a long time.
>> 
>> Given two cranks at the same price it'd be foolish to pass up the
>>forged one, but I wouldn't get into a lather over it unless I was
>>building a real ground-pounder.
>>                                                    
>>
My sentiments exactly :-) 


Jim Davies

> 

----------
Posted by: emory!fraser.sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 14:05:32 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Michael Brattland wrote
> 
> You have to be right.  There is no legal way to do it, with the possible 
> exception if the car is registered in one of the no smog check counties,
> which in the past tended to be the lightly populated, Northern California,
> Sierra Nevada counties, but I even think that loop hole is now gone.

Yes there is a way.  Check the cars at the site of the competition acording
to the local laws at the site of the competition.

> Bob Hale may know.  However, I have some pretty reasonable ideas how they
> may be doing it, such as engine swaps every other two years, or using the 
> registration sticker off another legal car which happens to be a garage
> queen.  Bad news and not what you want to do.  The other trick is working
> a deal with the smog guy who uses another like vehicle to run the smog 
> check and then writes a pass on your illegal car using those numbers.
> The state has really cracked down on this and is getting ready to take 
> the smog checking business back from small business and get into it
> themselves to clean up their act so to speak.

Wisconsin already has done this.  The DOT runs the emission stations and
if you fail twice you can only be liscensed on a temporary one year
waver if you prove you spent a minimum of $500.00 to improve the
emissions on the car.

>  All this points to getting
> excited about cars which were built before 1966, which you can still modify
> or swap motors to your hearts content.

Only partly true.  If you swap the motor here it must meet the standards
set for the car production date or the engine production date which ever
is lower.  So sw3apping in a 1989 engine into a 1955 car means you must
meet 1989 requirements simular to swapping in a 1969 hemi in a 1992
car you still need to meet 1992 requirements.

>  They are also getting fired up for
> another car crushing program so big business can win points against their
> own polution scores.

Yes the crushing machines should be really bustling around here.  I wonder
what the price of scrape iron is these days?
 > 
> 
> 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 14:12:40 1993
Subject: Octane ratings
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

  
Message-Id: <9302051830.AA03115@kcbbs.gen.nz>
Date: 5 Feb 93 18:30:26 EST (Fri)

>[Must be some other system.  Both research and motor octane scales end at  
>125.  
  
Is that by definition or observation ?  

[By definition, which I'm inclined to believe is based on observation.
The best book I've ever seen on the topic is "Automotive Fuels Handbook"
by Ownes and Coley.  Available from SAE.  In addition to about 700 pages
of fuel handbook, it is a venerable encyclopedia of references.  Each
chapter typically has a couple hundred references listed.  Book is pricey
at about $120 but well worth it for the fuel tinkerer.

The testing methods are ASTM D2699 for Research method and D2700 for
Motor method.  The methods differ in the "severity" of the test
environment.  Severity is generally defined as conditions conducive to 
knock.  The spread between motor and research numbers (research is always
larger) is the "sensitivity" rating of the fuel.  High sensitivity
fuels are likely to knock prematurely when conditions differ markedly
from the test engine.  Since the research engine runs at 600 rpm
and the motor at 900, most any modern engine differs markedly :-) 
That is why low sensitivity fuels are desired.  Example:  Toluene's
RON is 120 and MON is 109.  Xylene's RON is 118 and MON is 115.  Even
if an engine could normally run on toluene's MON of 109, xylene would be
a better fuel because it is less sensitive and thus less likely to knock.

The testing is done in a Waukesha patent test engine developed under
the supervision of the Cooperative Fuel Research (CFR) Committee in the 1930s.
It is a variable compression, variable timing, 3 carburator single
cylinder engine.  Testing is done by introducing the unknown into one
carburator and known references assumed to bracket the unknown in the others.
Each carb is switched in and the compression (research) or compression and
timing (motor) is adjusted to achieve the same indication on the "knockometer",
a knock sensor with an arbitrary 0-100 scale.  The Waukesha engine, also
known as the CFR engine is incapable of testing beyond 125 octane by
either method.

There has been much work done in areas like gac chromatography in an effort
to develop a test method that does not use this engine but yields the
same results.  Most have been unsuccessful.  Most, if not all gas blending
is still controlled by on-line CFR engines.  Foxboro makes a neat on-line
octane controller that consists of a small CFR-style engine and sufficient
electronics to generate a 4-20 ma (and presumably digital data) proportional
to octane.  Fills a full size instrument rack.
JGD]
  
My current bedtime reading says "A scale of 0 to 100 is devised by  
assigning a value of 0 to n-heptane (a fuel prone to knock), and a value  
of 100 to iso-octane (a fuel resistant to knock)."  
It then babbles on a bit about British and American standards, etc.  

[The fuels handbook, in the definitions section, says of octane, "Above
the level of 100, the octane rating is based on the number of milliliters
of TEL per gallon which is added to isooctane to give the same knock 
intensity as the fuel under test."  There is a whole chapter on the effects
of TEL.  In a nutshell, TEL's effect is less, the higher quality the 
base stock.  That is probably why the scale ends at 125.  Probably reaches
a plateau.  The table of octane ratings lists toluene's RON as 120 and
notest that benzine's rating is off-scale.  JGD]
  
The book is "Introduction to internal combustion engines" by Richard  
Stone. Don't know why it's called an _introduction_, it's way over the  
head of any mechanic I have ever met and it cost $100 for a bloody  
paperback !!  

[I have a book like that!  "Internal Combustion engine Fundimentals" by
Heywood.  Da bible.  JGD]
  
Steve.  
  
'62 Fairlane 351W,C4,etc  
'37 Ford 7Y original  
'54 Ford Pop - Flathead V8 (P.E. target)  
'64 wife - rough but not bad for age  
  
  

----------
Posted by: emory!kcbbs.gen.nz!Steve_Baldwin (Steve Baldwin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 16:29:38 1993
Subject: Re: AW Dyno
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>  If I gear it up for 6000 RPM, then the dyno will crap out at 450hp.
> That's not a whole lot of motor.
> [It shouldn't, should it?  The *power* would remain the same.  You'd
> simply halve the RPM and double the torque.  JGD]

Seems to me that John is right. Plus, you could measure the temperature
differential across the transmision oil cooler (you'll need one, at that
kind of power), times the flow and specific heat capacity, to get a pretty
accurate number for transmission power losses.


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 16:43:15 1993
Subject: Re: Polishing Aluminum Rims
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I second for Mothers polish.

it6 works great on Cragar SS rims

----------
Posted by: emory!ecs.umass.edu!BOZEK
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 16:48:04 1993
Subject: Re: Painting blocks inside ...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


For what it worth I used Rustoleum about three years ago on the
lifter valley of a 350 chevy.  I had the engine apart to replace a
head gasket about 3 weeks ago, and the rustoleum has not chipped,
or degraded in any manner I could tell.  I did it for the same reasons
mentioned: seal pores, aid oil drainback.

Kevin Smith

----------
Posted by: emory!ibeam.intel.com!kevins
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 16:53:05 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article <#mls_gj@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com writes...
> 
>-> Yup.  352, 390, 406, 410, 427, 428 and (I think) 462.  All FE series
>-> big blocks.  So, if you want a *real* Hot Rod Lincoln, find a 427
>-> SOHC
>....
>-> [Dave Williams:  Please list the other FE derivatives I missed.
> 
> There was a 360, 361, and 391, all truck variants.  I think they were
>the same bore and stroke as the car motors, just named differently so
>you'd know they were "truck" motors.

Thanks, Dave.  Sorry to the original poster for the mis-information.

I've read that the 391, at least, comes with a steel crank.  I read an
article about how the snout can be turned down for a standard car damper, so
the crank can be used in a car FE engine.
> 
> The 462 is not related to the FE series.
> 
> The 427 was never available in a production car; as far as I know it
>was the first "crate motor" out of Detroit.  Well, Shelby would install
>anything you wanted in a Cobra, and they built a couple of 427s with
>cammers.

Yeah, the SOHC 427 was only "over the counter".  Cost about $6,000 (I think
that's what I've read) back in the mid-sixties.
Hmm... A cammer in a Cobra...  Now *that* sounds like *fun*.

>                                    
> 
>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"

						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!mars.lerc.nasa.gov!edwlt12 (Mike Jamison (ADF))
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 17:00:57 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article <2klszlg@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com writes...
> 
[Much good info deleted]

>The T700/od combo is installed in some HOT Fords on the West Coast.
>As such, the T700-in-a-Ford kit is around.

I'd be interested in this conversion.  I hear the Ford C5 is stronger than the
C4, but that isn't saying much.  I haven't seen any high-stall lockup Ford
torque converters, either.  Do you have any names/addresses (prices?)?

Thanks in advance.
> 
>Why is it in high speed runs that nobody mounts tranny and oil coolers
>in the trunk deck, in the pressure node in front of the wing?

Possibly because of the longer high pressure lines?
> 
>Draw air in vertically, pass it through the coolers, and let it come
>out in the vacuume behind the wing.  This would produce thrust, reduce
>drag, and probably promote laminar flow.
> 
>Even if electric fans are need, this location must be better than in
>front of the radiator.
> 
>This technique was used by the Britten motorcycle, the orignal racing
>Buell motorcycle, and the Gossamar Challenger?  ( the thing that
>crossed the Greek sea, the pedaler was used to heat air and produce
>thrust, cooling his body in the process )  and in a few WWII era 
>aircraft.
> 
> 
>roof v
>---------
>         \
>          \
>           \   air in v   /    <-- wing on trunk deck
>            -------------/
> tranny cooler--> ooooo   \  --> air out
>                           \
>                           ||  <-- bumper
> 
> 
>Anybody got an idea?  I have a vague desire to by an extra trunk deck
>for my car and try this out.

How much gain do you think you'll get, vs. the cost/time involved in the 
modification?  (I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue your idea, just asking
how much you're willing to spend for one type of improvement over other,
guaranteed inprovements.  Of course, with the risk, and demostrable imp-
rovement, could come fame and fortune...)

>	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
>      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
>   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
>outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285
> 
>----------
>Posted by: emory!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)

Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"

						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!mars.lerc.nasa.gov!edwlt12 (Mike Jamison (ADF))
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb  5 17:09:56 1993
Subject: Televised Events #93-5
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------
				  TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
					    stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil
		   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

    EVENT                           DATE     TIME(Eastern)    NETWORK

AMA CAMEL PRO, OKLAHOMA CITY (T)    2/5      5:00-6:00PM        ESPN
Motoworld                           2/5      6:00-6:30PM        ESPN
This Week On Pit Road               2/5     11:30PM-12:00AM     HTS*
Movie: Bullitt                      2/6      12:30-3:00AM       WGN
Motoworld                           2/6      3:30-4:00AM        ESPN
The Great American Race (T)         2/6      6:00-7:00AM        ESPN
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel           2/6      9:00-10:55AM       ENC
World Of Speed & Beauty             2/6      9:30-10:00AM       TNN
Shadetree Mechanic                  2/6      10:30-11:00AM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                   2/6      12:30-1:00PM       DISC
Winners                             2/6      1:30-2:00PM        TNN
Truckin' USA                        2/6      2:00-2:30PM        TNN
NHRA Today                          2/6      2:30-3:00PM        TNN
Inside Winston Cup                  2/6      3:00-3:30PM        TNN
AMA, DAYTONA 200 (T)                2/6      3:30-5:00PM        TNN
MotorWeek'93(ToyotaT100,Dodge Viper)2/6      5:00-5:30PM        MPT**
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel           2/6      5:00-6:55PM        ENC
DAYTONA 500 QUALIFYING (SD)         2/6      7:30-8:30PM        ESPN
SpeedWeek                           2/6      8:30-9:00PM        ESPN
DAYTONA 24 HOURS (T)                2/6      9:00-11:00PM       ESPN
Motoworld                           2/7      2:30-3:00AM        ESPN
DAYTONA 500 QUALIFYING (T)          2/7      3:00-4:00AM        ESPN
SpeedWeek                           2/7      6:30-7:00AM        ESPN
Truckin' USA                        2/7      9:00-9:30AM        TNN
Truck & Tractor Power               2/7      9:30-10:00AM       TNN
Daytona: Drama, Danger, Dedication  2/7      10:00-10:30AM      TNN
NHRA Today                          2/7      10:30-11:00AM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                  2/7      11:00-11:30AM      TNN
RaceDay                             2/7     11:30AM-12:00PM     TNN
BUSCH CLASH (L)                     2/7      12:00-1:45PM       CBS
Shadetree Mechanic                  2/7      2:30-3:00PM        TNN
Winners                             2/7      3:00-3:30PM        TNN
NHRA Today                          2/7      3:30-4:00PM        TNN
ARCA 200, DAYTONA (SD)              2/7      4:00-6:00PM        ESPN
Alabama Salutes Richard Petty       2/7      4:00-7:00PM        TNN
RaceDay                             2/7      7:00-7:30PM        TNN
Thunder In The Distance(NHRA preview2/7      7:30-8:00PM        TNN
NHRA WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (L)    2/7      8:00-9:00PM        TNN
Road Test Magazine                  2/7      11:00-11:30PM      TNN
Truck & Tractor Power               2/7     11:30PM-12:00AM     TNN
Truckin' USA                        2/8      12:00-12:30AM      TNN
Winners                             2/8      12:30-1:00AM       TNN
NHRA WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (T)    2/8      1:30-2:30AM        TNN
AMA CAMEL PRO, PEORIA (T)           2/8      5:00-6:00PM        ESPN
AMA CAMEL PRO, SPRINGFIELD (T)      2/9      5:00-6:00PM        ESPN
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel           2/9      7:00-8:55PM        ENC
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel           2/10     5:30-7:25AM        ENC
DAYTONA 24 HOURS (T)                2/10     1:00-3:00PM        ESPN
AMA CAMEL PRO, SACRAMENTO (T)       2/10     5:00-6:00PM        ESPN
ARCA 200, DAYTONA (T)               2/11     1:00-3:00PM        ESPN
Daytona 500 Preview(driver intervws)2/11     2:00-3:00PM        HTS*
MIDGET NATIONALS, TULSA (T)         2/11     3:00-4:00PM        HTS*
Motoworld                           2/11     3:30-4:00PM        ESPN
MotorWeek'93(ToyotaT100,Dodge Viper)2/11     8:30-9:00PM        MPT*
This Week On Pit Road               2/11     7:00-7:30PM        HTS*
Daytona 500 Preview(driver intervws)2/11     7:30-8:30PM        HTS*
This Week On Pit Road               2/11    11:30PM-12:00AM     HTS*
Daytona 500 Preview(driver intervws)2/12     12:00-1:00AM       HTS*

		  ----------COMING EVENTS----------                

BUSCH GN, DAYTONA (?)               2/13     12:30PM            TBA
WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)            2/14     12:15PM            CBS
BUSCH GN, ROCKINGHAM (L)            2/27     1:00-3:30PM        TNN
WINSTON CUP, ROCKINGHAM (L)         2/28     12:00-5:00PM       TNN
BUSCH GN, RICHMOND (?)              3/6      TBA                TBA
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (L)           3/7      TBA                TBS
BUSCH GN, ATLANTA (?)               3/13     TBA                TBA
FORMULA 1, KYALAMI, SOUTH AFRICA (?)3/14     TBA                TBA [1]
WINSTON CUP, ATLANTA (L)            3/14     TBA                ABC

[1] TSN usually also carries the live broadcast. CBC also carries
F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your French isn't too rusty,
and you have access to it, you may also want to check out SRC. Thanks
to Tak Ariga for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburg                    Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If 
interested, please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stoffel              |  CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC  |<- x-DTRC               |
stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Code 859            |   x-NSRDC              |
(410) 267-3825            |  Annapolis, MD 21402 |   x-DTNSRDC (et alia)  |
_________________________________________________|________________________|

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!stoffel (William Stoffel)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 05:57:54 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Quoting from MISS INFORMATION'S AUTOMOTIVE CALENDER OF EVENTS Feb
93 issue, Jon Meyer writes" on January 8, 1993, the AQMD(Los Angeles
Basin Smog Plolice) passed Rule 1610 bringing back wholesale crushing
of used cars.  
Setting up three classes of targeted automobiles, large industrial 
polluters will postpone compliance with current rules by offering owners
of these cars $700.  For every 1965-71, 1972-74 and 1975 -81 automobile
that is crushed(only the sheet metal can be salvaged), the companies will
get "points" based on a complicated formula.  30,000 to 60,000 automobiles
built between 65 and 81 are expected to be crushed by the end of 93."
 
this is what you have to expect from some of jerks we have running 
these programs.
Mike Brattland

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:04:06 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I am not sure if this will get to you Mike Jamison, but it is 
Gene Christenson at Auto-Rite Transmissions in Van Nuyes CA
(818) 988 2167 that does T700-in-a-ford.  I think that if you brougt
him a running Ford, and at least $2000 you could get a strong T700
in your car.  It might cost $3000, I do not know.  Expect to pay
$1200 for the tranny and conveter, $100+ for the plate, $100+
for misc. hardware, and an unknown amount for installation.

	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:10:56 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Jesse Vitell writes:
"I have a 1971 Cutlass with a Rocket 350 and I'm looking boost performance 
a bit.  What would I do?"

The single most effective change that I know for pre-computer and
pre-turbo engines is to change the camshaft.  This is quite a bit
of work when the engine is still in the car, but the results are
worth it.

The second most effective change is to put in a free-flowing exhaust
system.  Headers are good but not mandatory provided that the car
has good-flowing exhaust manifolds.  Just changing a single exhaust
to a dual exhaust will probably gain you about 10 percent in power
and gas mileage.

In most cases the easy changes (such as carburetor replacement)
don't do much because the factory carb was usually well-matched
to the rest of the engine.  However, if you have put a better
exhaust system and a better cam in it then you will benefit from
improved carburetion.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (Bob Hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:17:11 1993
Subject: Re: To cast or not to cast
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Hmmm...I will take a closer look, I have been pretty stupid lately
-> :-(.

 Like I could say something.  I just broke off part of a $600 motorcycle
carburetor.  Times like that, even blasphemy seems inadequate.


-> The ones I have had in my hands recently are from 2.3L SVO 4-cyl
-> engines.

 Looks like a prime place to find a forged rod.  Now I'll dodge the
issue a bit - I was speaking mainly of the 302 and 351.  I don't recall
that I've ever exactly seen a rod out of a 2300.


-> If they are cast, they are really clean castings, and I didn't think
-> they were any special rod.  I will dig up a set of 302 rods I have

 Cast rods will have a parting line 1/16 to 1/8 wide, with the top of
the parting line being smooth.  Forged rods will have a parting line
3/16 to 1/4 wide, with the edges gnawed-looking where they ground the
flashing off.

 Cast vs. forged cranks are similar, except the parting line on a crank
can be as much as 3/4 wide.


 You have to remember this isn't nasty old gray cast iron we're talking
about.  The difference between "iron" and "steel" is tenuous at best,
but Ford used to show pictures of one of their cast steel rods which
they'd tied into a knot using a hydraulic press.  The sequence of photos
also shows them untying the knot, straightening, and resizing the rod,
ready to re-use.  Well, if you were proving a point, anyway.

 H-O Racing Specialties makes a major production of how bad Pontiac's
cast rods are, and how you should never run a 455 past 5800 RPM or the
rods will break, etc.  I've seen Pontiac rods and they make Ford rods
look positively spindly; either Pontiac made 'em out of compressed
cheese or H-O is making the hard sell for a set of their replacement
forged rods.

 Buick V6 rods are all cast according to one of my Buick books.  I dunno
if that includes the turbos as well.

 Small block Chevy rods are all forged as far as I know.  You have to
remember the Chevy is an *old* motor, designed before high strength
cast steel technology was fully developed.  GM's engineers probably
figured the forging dies have been paid for long ago, so why switch?
                                                                                                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:23:30 1993
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> spark energy in a drag racing or other short term environment, one
-> can increase the energy by reducing or eliminating the ballast
-> resistor. The coil will likely overheat over the long term so don't
-> do it on the street.

 The Mallory HyFire instructions say to remove or bypass the ballast
resistor.  I ran for five years like that, but that was a four cylinder
with a Mallory coil too.

[Doesn't the Mallory have an internal ballast?  I was thinking it did. JGD]

-> because it must be heat sunk.  On the other hand, there is a HEI
-> module combination used on some 84-87 GM trucks that listen to a
-> knock sensor and implement knock control.

 The module is $98.13 at my local Chevy dealer.  I haven't tried a parts
store though.
                          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:28:13 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> be checked at the competition site, against a set standard determined
-> by the local dmv or dtp of that state.
->      Legal bumper height
->      legal smog equipment
->      legal tire sizes and dot approved
->      legal emissions
->      etc. etc etc.

 I'd be in hog heaven with an Arkansas plate.  No bumpers required, no
smog check, no limit on tire sizes, DOT approval not required (the only
restrictions are on studded tires, and wear bars can't show), no window
glass, doors, hood, fenders, or anything else required.

 Arkansas DMV regs insist you have a muffler, which some modern cars
don't, since corrugated exhaust pipes have come into vogue for noise
reduction after the convertor.  Nobody actually crawls under and checks,
though.  The stupid third brake lights are not legal (code says all
brake lights must lie in the same horizontal plane) and those goddamned
stupid-ass Lumina vans with the taillights six feet in the air aren't
legal either, since the bottom of the light is above the minimum, but
they don't enforce that either.


 Looks like the choices would be:

     a) Car must be legal and registered in home state/county.
     b) Car must be legal in the state/county of the test.
     c) Car doesn't have to be legal anywhere, but must meet some
        arbitrary requirements set by the testers.

 Frankly, I'd like to see c).  That would give you a consistent set of
rules to build for.  The competition could be run anywhere.  I have
nothing against the guys with the trailer queens as long as they have to
meet the same specs the driven cars do.
 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:33:18 1993
Subject: T400 instruction
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 I'm looking for a set of instructions for a B&M shift kit for a T400.
If you happen to have an old set of instructions left after you've
installed a kit, I'd like a copy.

 Thanks,
     Dave
                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:41:47 1993
Subject: Re: Hydraulic Jetta (gawd I hate 'no subject line' :-)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dave Johnson writes in response to my posting:
"I can't see how one would use hydraulics to store a pressurized
charge.  It seems that you would either need some hellatious
tank to take some serious press. (>10k psi), or not pressurize it that
much.  Unless you're talking about a pressure accumulator that
used a piston and spring (and maybe air-pressure on the other
side) to get any usable volume w/o having a 500 Lb tank in the
back seat (this would be akin to an Accu-Sump)."

The energy was stored in a tank which consisted of a balloon filled
with nitrogen and a space for hydraulic fluid.  As fluid is pumped
in it compresses the nitrogen and stores the energy.

Later, Dave writes:
(me) The car obtained 60 MPG (Diesel fuel is heavier than gasoline
(me) so that's about 70 MPG gasoline equivalent).

"Am I the only one confused by this?  Are you saying that 'because
deisel fuel is heavier (I assume w.r.t. it's specific heat output),
carrying more of it around uses up another 10 mpg?'"

The issue here is miles per pound.  Diesel fuel is heavier than
gasoline per unit volume.  Six gallons of Diesel fuel weighs
about the same as 7 gallons of gasoline.  It takes more pounds of
Diesel fuel (and therefor more carbon and hydrogen and therefore
more energy) than gasoline to fill the same tank.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (Bob Hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:49:07 1993
Subject: please post this
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

As I read these articles, I see that someone is forgetting the simply fact that
the blades(or fins) in the turbo are turning at a good 200,000 rpms just after
they spool up. After that they can really get spinning.  That is where most of
the oil breakdown happens, in the turbo after the engine is shut off.  There is
an easy way to help prevent this though.

After the car(in my case a Dodge Shelby Turbo 2.2) has been driven for more
than ten minutes or after any hard run involving turbo use should be allowed to
spool down at idel for about one minute. This also allows the head to cool if
you wait for the fan to come on and then cool to off.  At idel speeds, there
isn't enough pressure in the turbo chamber to get the blades spinning.  A good
cool down also helps the bearings in the turbo.

[Very few if any turbos turn 200,000 rpm.  Possibly some of the tiny
motorcycle turbos approach that speed.  OEM turbos typically run in the
100,000 - 125,000 rpm.  Performance turbochargers, because of their generally
larger housings and wheels, run in the 80,000 rpm range.  I map the 
turbos I use on Z-car motors to 85,000 rpm and my homemade turbo tach
tells me I'm hitting it pretty much on the money.  While it is a good
idea to cool the turbo after a hard run, there is no requirement to wait for
spooldown.  The wheel spools down about as fast as it spools up.  A 
few seconds will do it.  JGD]

Another wise investment is a vaccum and boost pressure gague.  Keeping an eye
on pressures can save you gas.  I get 25mpg in the city and 35 on the highway. 
This is way above what Chrysler says it is supposed to be.

I am also trying to find information on my car.  If anyone knows how to get in
touch with someone that can tell me how many were made in each year that  would
be great.  Also the address for SHELBY motors in Calif. would be nice too.

Anyone interested in buying a 1987 Shelby with 57K miles let me know.  My
engine is perfect as for as turbos go.  

And to the oil point.  Try to use grade SF/CD and the weight reccommended by
the maker.  Change the oil every 2500 miles and you'll be doing good.  A new
filter never hurts either.  I also change to platinum plugs for an added boost.
If you have any qustions, just mail me.  I have lots of thick books.

Don Gilbert
DGilbert@vax.cns.muskingum.edu

----------
Posted by: "Donald Gilbert" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:54:52 1993
Subject: Re: Would this improve internal friction?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> eems to me most if not all engines use a pin offset around .060. It
-> was a perennial speed secret in all Mopar racing handouts to reverse
-> pistons for a slight, extra HP increase. Did it on lotsa engine, but
-> never noticed any noise increase, contrary to expectations ;-)

 Nope, it appears to have fallen from favor with Detroit V8s somewhere
in the mid 1960s.  Most replacements are also center-pin.  Slightly
offsetting the pin is a Good Thing as far as I'm concerned, and I'm not
sure why the practice has fallen from favor.

 It could be the reduction in inventory from not stocking both left and
right hand pistons, but compared to 593,200,392 dozen trim variations,
hubcaps, and whatnots...
                                                                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 06:59:04 1993
Subject: Re: 383cid SB Chevy - AGAIN
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> castings for forgings. They even tried it on the V12 aircraft engine
-> that Henry had developed for the P40 Ford was gonna licence build in
-> WW2. Too bad he cancelled it in a fit of pique ;-( That was one
-> interesting engine! Of course, 2/3 of it turned up in tanks later. Be
-> a good subject for your engines-of-yore serial, Dave.

 It'd be a good subject, except I've never heard of it!  I'm not into
aircraft stuff, though if you'd like to write a page or two on the
subject I'll certainly read it!  
                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 07:04:21 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> the 403 is basically a [REALLY] punched-out 350, and would be an easy
-> drop-in.

 Actually, a [REALLY] punched out 330!  By the way, all the short deck
Olds used the same stroke, from the 260 to the 403.

 Oldsmobile traditionally favored long stroke engines.  The 403 made up
for it - 4.35 x 3.39.  That's a stroke between a 327 and 350 Chevy,
with a bore larger than a 454 - about an eighth of an inch larger!

 For real performance work you might want to look real hard for a '77
solid-web 403.  Only 2500 were made.  The rest through '80 had windowed
main webs - that is, the main bearings were basically held on posts
instead of a solid wall of metal.  I've never read of any real problems
with the windowed blocks, but I'd want all the beef I could get for a
hipo motor.


-> [if you could wet-sleeve the 425 and put 403 pistons in, you'd get
-> about 475 cubes...]

 Wouldn't that be sweet?    I've never quite trusted sleeves that
went through into water though.  Now for a cheap alternative, you can
take the mondo-heavy-duty 350 Diesel block, punch it to 4.25, then put a
425 crank in for 341 cubes.  Then you could tell people it was a 260 or
307 Olds.  


-> the 400/425/455 is basically a raised-deck 350, and can be dropped in
-> with little work.

 Yep.  The difference is about the same as between a 302 and 351W Ford.
The high deck is about an inch wider on each side.  Most chassis that
will take a low deck will take a high deck.
 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 07:09:07 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


[very interesting fuel rating article deleted]

 Thanks!


-> coming out of engines, but not from detonation, they just werent
-> strong enough for the forces of normal combustion :-) Merlins put out
-> 2200 HP on about 45 psig manifold pressure, so the 1710 was getting
-> about *SWAG mode* say 65-70 psig at the intake valve.

 1710 what?  1710 cubic inch?

 That doesn't sound like a whole lot of power for 50-55 pounds of boost.
          

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 07:14:14 1993
Subject: Re: To cast or not to cast
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> the 4.0 V6 rods are forged, and I can't tell what my 4-cyl SVO rods
-> are because they have been polished and shot peened, but I will
-> suspect they are cast until I find out otherwise. Thanks for the
-> sanity check, and sorry if I confused anyone.

  I just checked my Racer Walsh and Esslinger catalogs and a 1975 Ford
service manual, and though there's plenty of talk about rods, none of
them say which kind they are.  Hmm.
   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 07:19:21 1993
Subject: Re: Would this improve internal friction?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> " All Chevy 283s and early 327s came with offset pins to prevent
-> piston "slap when cold."

> the pin is offset toward the *wrong* [;^>] side for noise reduction.

[drawing deleted]

 Your drawing is geometrically correct.  However, are you certain that's
the side the pistons are offset to?  I stole my bit of trivia from a
usually-reliable source - a 1964 Chevrolet 1-ton truck service manual.

 It wouldn't be the first time someone found an error in a factory
manual.
                                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 07:24:07 1993
Subject: Re: Optimum ignition timing question
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

John Gwynne on The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
:  writes:
: 
: >> Assuming there is no detonation, is more ignition advance
: >> always better for power?
: >
: >Not necessarily, after a certain point (called MBT, Minimum advance
: >for Best Torque), peak combustion temperature will start rising sharply
: >and little if any additional performance will be seen.
: 
[...]
: I had thought that one could establish the _optimal_ mechanical advance curve
: by increasing the advance (ie. changing springs, weights, and intial timing)
: with the vacuum advance disabled to the point "just before knocking" under all
: acceleration conditions in high gear. After which, the vacuum advance could be
: set under cruise conditions with an adjustable vacuum unit. How close to MBT
: will this method result in, and is there a better way that doesn't require a
: dynamometer?

I too would like to know what you net wizards think.  I am in the process of
tuning the SB 350 in my truck for optimum performance and mileage.  I have
installed a somewhat "lumpy" cam that can stand a bit more ignition advance
than the factory setting.  I have set it by ear at this point, but I want to
get the most torque for my fuel $$s.

How much of a timing "gap" is there between MBT and detonation??  If they are
*very* close, I will consider them the same for my purposes.

DER

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Don Robinson    (602) 752-6466     Internet:  vlsiphx!donr@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
   ** Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, **
   ** my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.   **

----------
Posted by: emory!marble.UUCP!donr (Don Robinson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 07:31:01 1993
Subject: Re: Electronc Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dave Williams on The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
[...] 
:  I loathe, despise, hate, detest, and plain don't like the DuraSuck.
: Every one I've owned has been plagued with the intermittent
: gollywobbles.  The boxes seem to die with monotonous regularity.  I
: could live with that, if they didn't start running funny beforehand.
: Let's see... carb problem?  Bad coil?  Bad wires or plugs?  Bad gas?
: Evil spirits?  Nope, it's probably the damned DuraSpark box.
:
:  I'd get the DuraSpark distributor, then see if a Chrysler box would
: work with it.  It'd take a little rewiring, but you could lop the
: pentagonal Chrysler connector off a car in the junkyard.  Then use the
: big O-transformer Mallory coil along with the MSD 6A.
 
Educate me a bit, please.  I assume the Duraspark "box" is the pickup module 
that "talks" to the coil.  If I remember right the MSD 6A is the processor 
box that does all the advance/retard/monitoring for more efficient ignition. 
Doesn't it also have knock sensing capability? 
 
So you like the MSD 6A but not the Duraspark setup, right? 
 
I have been thinking about installing some sort of ignition enhancement on
the Camaro project.  It has a std HEI ignition with no frills.  I wouldn't
mind having a "smarter" ignition system and possibly a knock sensor as well.

What do you recommend?

DER

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Don Robinson    (602) 752-6466     Internet:  vlsiphx!donr@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
   ** Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, **
   ** my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.   **

----------
Posted by: emory!marble.UUCP!donr (Don Robinson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb  6 14:49:41 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Oldsmobile traditionally favored long stroke engines.  The 403 made up
>for it - 4.35 x 3.39.  That's a stroke between a 327 and 350 Chevy,
>with a bore larger than a 454 - about an eighth of an inch larger!

    Could someone explain to me the pros/cons of long vs short rod
motors?  I seem to remember something like long rods = low rpm torque,
and short rods = higer rpms.     What effect does bore size have in
this whole relationship?  

>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

                      -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb  7 02:27:24 1993
Subject: Pontiac Connecting Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



	I am in the process of planning a 455 Pontiac build up for a
street/strip car.  The main concern about my build-up are the rods.  As anyone
who has ever built a Pontiac knows the rods are the week link in Pontiac
motors.  On 455's Pontiac engineers set a factory redline of 5200 rpm's.  In
most cases this is plenty of rpm to make power, but the cam I have chosen the
peak horsepower occurs at 5500 rpm's.  I have a set of early forged
rods('58-'62) that I planned on using.  The early forgings are not heat
treated, I heard that this makes them softer than the stock cast rods,
but they can be heat treated to 32C on the Rockwell Hardness Scale. 
This would make them as strong as Super Duty rods which can last to a 7500 rpm
redline in a Pontiac 455.  The only problem with this is it is a very expensive
process.  I have been brainstorming for alternatives, and the idea I came up 
with was to try to use 455 Oldsmobile rods in my Pontiac motor.  I have read 
that they are very similar to the Pontiac rods, and I believe they are forged. 
If memory serves me correct I believe the factory redline is 5500 rpm's in like
a '69 442.  That is even with a longer stroke then the Pontiac motor, meaning 
they would be able to withstand a higher redline in the 455 Pontiac.  The Olds 
rods are also longer than the Pontiac's, 6.735 in. vs. 6.625 in.  This would 
improve the rod to stroke ratio slightly.  Does anyone know if this would work?
Would the clearances on the bearings be correct?  Would the side clearance be 
within the excepted limits?  Would maching costs make this idea economically 
impractical?  I would like to use some sort of factory rod for this build-up, 
I am not interested in spending $800-$1000 for aftermarket or rare factory 
experimental rods.

				Thanks for your time,

				    Steven Nove

----------
Posted by: emory!ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu!v127klmr (Steven E Nove)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb  7 02:37:49 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> -> coming out of engines, but not from detonation, they just werent
> -> strong enough for the forces of normal combustion :-) Merlins put out
> -> 2200 HP on about 45 psig manifold pressure, so the 1710 was getting
> -> about *SWAG mode* say 65-70 psig at the intake valve.
>  1710 what?  1710 cubic inch?
>  That doesn't sound like a whole lot of power for 50-55 pounds of boost.

If this is the Rolls-Royce Merlin engine, the displacement is about
17 liters, according to AutoWeek a few years back...


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb  7 02:42:33 1993
Subject: please post this
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> [Very few if any turbos turn 200,000 rpm.  Possibly some of the tiny
-> motorcycle turbos approach that speed.

 The one in the Yamaha Seca Turbo runs at 250,000.  The Honda CX500
Turbo runs about 200,000.

 Of course, the Yamaha unit has a 1.58" compressor.
                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb  7 02:49:54 1993
Subject: Re: Electronc Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Educate me a bit, please.  I assume the Duraspark "box" is the pickup
-> module that "talks" to the coil.

 Nope, the pickup module is inside the distributor.  The Duraspark box
is the part that mounts to the fender.


-> If I remember right the MSD 6A is the processor box that does all
-> the advance/retard/monitoring for more efficient ignition.

 Beats me.  I got a lot of fancy color advertising in from MSD, but they
didn't bother telling what their stuff *did*, just how wonderful it'd be
after I wrote them a fat check.

[It is strictly a multiple discharge CDI box.  You have to buy other 
expensive red boxes to do advance control and such.  Even the rev 
limiter requires buying the MSD 6AL. I think the box itself is worth
the money, particularly if you can find somone to sell it to you at jobber
price but I think some of their other stuff is, ah, high.  JGD]

-> So you like the MSD 6A but not the Duraspark setup, right?

 Right.


-> I have been thinking about installing some sort of ignition
-> enhancement on the Camaro project.  It has a std HEI ignition with no
-> frills.  I wouldn't mind having a "smarter" ignition system and
-> possibly a knock sensor as well.
-> What do you recommend?

 I'm a reactionary.  Contrary to what the car magazines say, I like the
HEI just fine.  It's a very nice system, reliable, compact, etc, etc,
and has enough spark to knock you on your ass.  To the best of my
knowlege nobody is making an inexpensive knock sensor rig anymore, like
the old $75 Carter Knock Eliminator.  You can get the factory parts to
add a knock sensor to the HEI - John posted some information on this
some months ago - but unless you find a truck to strip the parts from,
the Chevy dealer will hit for your in the neighborhood of $350.  I'd buy
a spring and weight kit and play with the curve a bit, but unless you're
doing something radical I wouldn't worry about dropping a lump of cash
to replace a good HEI.

[I think the HEI is a pretty good system too, and will have hard data
to prove it after I finish my testing for the upcoming ignition article.
JGD]



----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb  7 06:43:14 1993
Subject: Rods/strokes/bores (was: Re: No Subject Line)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Bob Valentine writes:

>    Could someone explain to me the pros/cons of long vs short rod
>motors?  I seem to remember something like long rods = low rpm torque,
>and short rods = higer rpms.

	Actually, in general it's the reverse.  What's usually considered is
the ratio of the rod length to the stroke length; this gives the geometry
of rod and piston position as a function of crankshaft rotation angle.  A
longer rod for a given stroke gives less of a maximum angle between the rod
and the bore centerline; this decreases side-loading of the piston against
the bore, and thereby cuts friction and wear.  There are also some (I think)
largely negligible improvements in that a longer rod/stroke ratio moves the
peak piston speed and therefore airflow demand later into the intake stroke,
by which time the valve has had a little more time to come open and meet the
demand.  My understanding is that a shorter rod/stroke ratio does give a bit
more torque in the same way that leaning at an angle on an angled prybar
works better than pushing straight down on it; however, tests I've seen in
print suggest that this is eaten by the increased friction so there is no net
gain, and indeed a loss at high RPMs.

	So why use a short rod?  Deck height!  You have to fit half the
stroke, plus the rod length, plus the compression height (distance from
wristpin centerline to piston crown), plus usually a couple .010"s clearance,
into the distance from crankshaft CL to block deck.  Such limited experience
as I have is with the smallblock Chevy, all but one of whose variants have
the same rod length.  Initially, a 3" stroke and 5.7" rod were used; this
rod/stroke ratio of 1.90:1 is very near the point of diminishing returns as
ratio is increased, and with a reasonable compression height gives the
very compact 9.025" crank-to-deck distance of the SBC.  However, when you
start stroking the motor, with a street-usable ring pack you can't make the
compression height too small, so you can't keep the rod/stroke ratio constant
by lengthening the rod as well.  Given the additional desire for parts
commonality, Chevy made all SBC's up to 350 CID with the same rod length; the
350 has a 3.48" stroke, for a rod/stroke ratio of 1.64:1--definitely less
than optimal for a revvin' mill.  It gets worse--the compression height on
the 350 was about as small as they wanted to go on a production engine, so
when they introduced the 400 CID, 3.75" stroke SBC they actually had to cut
the rod length to 5.565" to fit the block's crank-to-deck dimension, for a
very small 1.48:1 rod/stroke ratio with the same compression height as the 350.

> ... What effect does bore size have in
>this whole relationship?  

	In the statement quoted at the top of this posting, perhaps you
were thinking about long and short _strokes_; in that case you do want a
shorter one for a high-rev motor.  A big bore allows you to use a shorter
stroke for a given displacement; this is advantageous for a free-revving
mill because your reciprocating mass (piston + rings + wristpin + rod) will
have to move a shorter distance each stroke and will thus have to accelerate
and decelerate less violently at a given RPM.  (A bigger (thus heavier) piston
will be necessary to fill the bigger bore, but I guess the tradeoffs are
still in favor of the big-bore/short-stroke combo for revving.)  Also, a
shorter-stroke crank will have its rod-journal mass closer to its centerline,
and thus it will have less rotational inertia to overcome when accelerating.

	One note about bore size:  early engines with their small bores
were limited by the octane rating of the available fuels.  A big bore is
prone to detonation, in that the flame front starting at the sparkplug takes
longer to reach the extremities of the combustion volume; thus the radiated
energy has a longer time to pre-heat the unburned fuel/air there, and in severe
conditions it can get hot enough to ignite spontaneously and all at once.
A 4"-bore engine was just not practical until fuel octanes climbed high enough
in the late '50's or early '60's.  This is why huge engines with 6" or 12" or
bigger bores just about have to be diesels--there's no fuel-air present to
autoignite except at the injector where you can control it.  These monsters
_can_ be converted to spark ignition if you use natural gas as the fuel,
with a 130 or 140 octane rating (depending upon whom you ask) and the
corresponding detonation resistance.  You knew I was gonna find a way to
drag the conversation around to alternative fuels, didn't you?

	Finally, "I'm not an automotive engineer, but I play one on weekends".
My PhD is in magnetospheric physics of the planet Neptune, for Pete's sake!
All of the above is book-learnin', and if somebody's experience is contrary
to my generalizations, please don't let them stand uncorrected.

--Mark Looper
"Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"

----------
Posted by: emory!cco.caltech.edu!looper (Mark D. Looper)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb  7 06:49:41 1993
Subject: Re: Red Ram Hemi (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Will try and find my notes on Chrysler mid 50s V8s. The best PUBLISHED
list available is a mopar bulletin *cant remember the number* but it
was included in some of their DC bulletin packs. I found it especially
interesting that 1) they used rod/main bearing sizes to distinguish
family origin, which was what I had settled on earlier, when I wanted to
understand this mess ;-) and 2)they also admitted that their were combinations
made that they couldnt document. My list is a little more complete than mopars,
but the main info is in the mopar bulletin. I will look for this info, but
its stored in a warehouse, a big, messy one. Lets NOT get into flathead sixes,
another major mess ;-)

Jim Davies

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb  7 06:56:45 1993
Subject: Re: T400 instruction
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dave, I believe I may  be able to comeup with one this  weekend. 
A friend of mine who passed awaylast fall dad recently put the B & M
Shift kit in his roadster.  Friday we are hauling some of the remaining
parts, bits and pieces to the Big Three Swap Meet this Sat and Sunday,
the 13thand 14th.  If it is among the stuff, I will e-mail you for your 
address and fire it yourway.
Mike Brattland Brattlan@cyber.net/Brattlan@nprdc.navy.mil

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb  7 07:02:17 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

ay!relay2!uranus!dtix.dt.navy.mil!oasys!stoffel
From:     stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.sport,alt.hotrod
Subject: Televised Events #93-5
Message-Id: <30733@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
Date: 5 Feb 93 15:04:18 GMT
Expires: 13 Feb 93 05:00:00 GMT
Reply-To: stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil (William Stoffel)
Followup-To: rec.autos.sport
Distribution: na
Organization: Annapolis Detachment, CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC
Lines: 141


----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  TV Events

A compilation of info. gleaned from TV listings, auto mags., newspapers,
tea leaves, and my favorite bartender. PLEASE confirm dates and times
with your local listings before setting your VCRs.

TVE will USUALLY be updated on Friday morning and will be most accurate
(or least inaccurate) for the following 7 days. If your favorite event
is "TBA'd", please don't panic unless it's in the 7 day window.

If you are having trouble with this list arriving at your site in
a timely fashion, please let me know via e-mail and I will also start
mailing you a copy.

Comments, suggestions, additions, extra pit passes, etc. to:
                                            stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil
                   ---------------------------------

(T)=Taped  (L)=Live  (SD)=Same Day  (?)=dunno

    EVENT                           DATE     TIME(Eastern)    NETWORK

AMA CAMEL PRO, OKLAHOMA CITY (T)    2/5      5:00-6:00PM        ESPN
Motoworld                           2/5      6:00-6:30PM        ESPN
This Week On Pit Road               2/5     11:30PM-12:00AM     HTS*
Movie: Bullitt                      2/6      12:30-3:00AM       WGN
Motoworld                           2/6      3:30-4:00AM        ESPN
The Great American Race (T)         2/6      6:00-7:00AM        ESPN
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel           2/6      9:00-10:55AM       ENC
World Of Speed & Beauty             2/6      9:30-10:00AM       TNN
Shadetree Mechanic                  2/6      10:30-11:00AM      TNN
Wild About Wheels                   2/6      12:30-1:00PM       DISC
Winners                             2/6      1:30-2:00PM        TNN
Truckin' USA                        2/6      2:00-2:30PM        TNN
NHRA Today                          2/6      2:30-3:00PM        TNN
Inside Winston Cup                  2/6      3:00-3:30PM        TNN
AMA, DAYTONA 200 (T)                2/6      3:30-5:00PM        TNN
MotorWeek'93(ToyotaT100,Dodge Viper)2/6      5:00-5:30PM        MPT**
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel           2/6      5:00-6:55PM        ENC
DAYTONA 500 QUALIFYING (SD)         2/6      7:30-8:30PM        ESPN
SpeedWeek                           2/6      8:30-9:00PM        ESPN
DAYTONA 24 HOURS (T)                2/6      9:00-11:00PM       ESPN
Motoworld                           2/7      2:30-3:00AM        ESPN
DAYTONA 500 QUALIFYING (T)          2/7      3:00-4:00AM        ESPN
SpeedWeek                           2/7      6:30-7:00AM        ESPN
Truckin' USA                        2/7      9:00-9:30AM        TNN
Truck & Tractor Power               2/7      9:30-10:00AM       TNN
Daytona: Drama, Danger, Dedication  2/7      10:00-10:30AM      TNN
NHRA Today                          2/7      10:30-11:00AM      TNN
Inside Winston Cup                  2/7      11:00-11:30AM      TNN
RaceDay                             2/7     11:30AM-12:00PM     TNN
BUSCH CLASH (L)                     2/7      12:00-1:45PM       CBS
Shadetree Mechanic                  2/7      2:30-3:00PM        TNN
Winners                             2/7      3:00-3:30PM        TNN
NHRA Today                          2/7      3:30-4:00PM        TNN
ARCA 200, DAYTONA (SD)              2/7      4:00-6:00PM        ESPN
Alabama Salutes Richard Petty       2/7      4:00-7:00PM        TNN
RaceDay                             2/7      7:00-7:30PM        TNN
Thunder In The Distance(NHRA preview2/7      7:30-8:00PM        TNN
NHRA WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (L)    2/7      8:00-9:00PM        TNN
Road Test Magazine                  2/7      11:00-11:30PM      TNN
Truck & Tractor Power               2/7     11:30PM-12:00AM     TNN
Truckin' USA                        2/8      12:00-12:30AM      TNN
Winners                             2/8      12:30-1:00AM       TNN
NHRA WINTERNATIONALS, POMONA (T)    2/8      1:30-2:30AM        TNN
AMA CAMEL PRO, PEORIA (T)           2/8      5:00-6:00PM        ESPN
AMA CAMEL PRO, SPRINGFIELD (T)      2/9      5:00-6:00PM        ESPN
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel           2/9      7:00-8:55PM        ENC
Movie: Heart Like A Wheel           2/10     5:30-7:25AM        ENC
DAYTONA 24 HOURS (T)                2/10     1:00-3:00PM        ESPN
AMA CAMEL PRO, SACRAMENTO (T)       2/10     5:00-6:00PM        ESPN
ARCA 200, DAYTONA (T)               2/11     1:00-3:00PM        ESPN
Daytona 500 Preview(driver intervws)2/11     2:00-3:00PM        HTS*
MIDGET NATIONALS, TULSA (T)         2/11     3:00-4:00PM        HTS*
Motoworld                           2/11     3:30-4:00PM        ESPN
MotorWeek'93(ToyotaT100,Dodge Viper)2/11     8:30-9:00PM        MPT*
This Week On Pit Road               2/11     7:00-7:30PM        HTS*
Daytona 500 Preview(driver intervws)2/11     7:30-8:30PM        HTS*
This Week On Pit Road               2/11    11:30PM-12:00AM     HTS*
Daytona 500 Preview(driver intervws)2/12     12:00-1:00AM       HTS*

                  ----------COMING EVENTS----------

BUSCH GN, DAYTONA (?)               2/13     12:30PM            TBA
WINSTON CUP, DAYTONA (L)            2/14     12:15PM            CBS
BUSCH GN, ROCKINGHAM (L)            2/27     1:00-3:30PM        TNN
WINSTON CUP, ROCKINGHAM (L)         2/28     12:00-5:00PM       TNN
BUSCH GN, RICHMOND (?)              3/6      TBA                TBA
WINSTON CUP, RICHMOND (L)           3/7      TBA                TBS
BUSCH GN, ATLANTA (?)               3/13     TBA                TBA
FORMULA 1, KYALAMI, SOUTH AFRICA (?)3/14     TBA                TBA [1]
WINSTON CUP, ATLANTA (L)            3/14     TBA                ABC

[1] TSN usually also carries the live broadcast. CBC also carries
F1 racing, but it may be tape-delayed. If your French isn't too rusty,
and you have access to it, you may also want to check out SRC. Thanks
to Tak Ariga for info. on coverage in Canada.

* HTS (formerly Home Team Sports) is a regional sports network centered
in the Baltimore/Wash. DC area. If you have a regional sports network,
please check their listings for these shows. If they don't have them,
you may want to ask them why they don't. Your times will almost
certainly vary from those shown with the probable exception of "This
Week In NASCAR". On race weeks TWIN is usually broadcast live from a
nearby location  at 11:00PM (Eastern) on the Thursday before the race.
An interesting show which usually includes a live audience,
driver/guest, and viewer call-ins. It also (at least on HTS) gets
rebroadcast a couple of times during the week. This show, as well as
many of the others, originate on the Prime Network.

Other possible cable sources for at least some of these shows;

    Network               Area                         Thanks to...

     TSN                 Canada                       Tom Haapanen
     MSG                New York                    G. Bruce Rodgers
  SportSouth            Atlanta                      David Cornutt
    "    " (aka SPS) E. Tenn. & West NC                 Ken Key
  PrimeTicket         Southern CA                      Chuck Fry
    Empire              Buffalo
     NESN           Boston/N. England                 Trace Kangas
     KBL                Pittsburg                    Mike Sturdevant
     PASS               Michigan                         Hartz
   Sunshine             Florida
     HSE                 Texas
     PSN           Minneapolis/St. Paul               Dean Barker
     PSN                Seattle                         Gary Eng
  SportsChannel (SC)    Chicago                      Jim Fuerstenberg

** MPT (Maryland Public TV) - "MotorWeek '93" is produced by MPT
and distributed to other public TV stations around the US. If
interested, please check the listings for your local public TV
station(s).  [Also please remember to send them a couple $'s if you
like the show. Those folks will always appreciate the help.]

__________________________________________________________________________
Bill Stoffel              |  CARDEROCKDIV, NSWC  |<- x-DTRC               |
stoffel@oasys.dt.navy.mil |  Code 859            |   x-NSRDC              |
(410) 267-3825            |  Annapolis, MD 21402 |   x-DTNSRDC (et alia)  |
_________________________________________________|________________________|

----------
Posted by: emory!di.epfl.ch!news
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 02:35:53 1993
Subject: Re: please post this (mini turbos)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> -> [Very few if any turbos turn 200,000 rpm.  Possibly some of the tiny
> -> motorcycle turbos approach that speed.
> 
>  The one in the Yamaha Seca Turbo runs at 250,000.  The Honda CX500
> Turbo runs about 200,000.
> 
>  Of course, the Yamaha unit has a 1.58" compressor.

Wow! That's small! I liiiikeit!  

Now...just get four of those puppies, and my 510 project would
*really* be cooking :-)

DAVE (johnson@wrs.com) Internet Z-Club member #51

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 02:41:21 1993
Subject: crack checking
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 While looking through one of my old Ford service manuals, I found the
following:

       "Minute cracks not visible to the naked eye may be detected
        by coating the suspected area with a mixture of 25 percent
        kerosene and 75 percent light engine oil.  Wipe the part
        dry and immediately apply a coating of zinc oxide dissolved
        in wood alcohol.  If cracks are present, the coating will
        become discolored at the defective area."

 Sounds good.  The kerosene and oil part is OK, but where is a good
source of zinc oxide?  What kind of alcohol is "wood" alcohol?  Am I
correct in assuming a 50/50 mixture?


 BTW, my favorite welder showed me a trick for finding cracks in cast
iron.  Take the torch and heat the suspected area, and any cracks will
show right up.
                                                   
[Dye penetrant inspection kits should be available from any welding 
supply store.  Should not cost more than $15 or so.  Everything one
needs in 3 easy aerosol cans.  JGD]

John
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 02:46:48 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I don't know what the mechanical differences were but the 1970 GS350 was
rated at 315 hp while the standard 4 barrel was something like 285.
The compression ratio was the same so maybe the cam changed.  My 72 GS350
came with dual exhausts, apparently that was the only diff in 72.

Let me know what you find out.  I getting ready to go through my GS.

Thanks, 

Randy

----------
Posted by: emory!gatech!sdf.lonestar.org!randykim (Randy Kimes)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 02:52:12 1993
Subject: Oxygen Sensor help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


It was bound to happen, so after about a year of driving with an
wire attached to my oxy sensor (loose inside the car) so I can measure
the voltage with my voltmeter, it shorted and killed the sensor.

I got a cheapie ($30)from the parts store (dealer wanted $120).
This is a one wire sensor.  I put in the new sensor, cleared the 
computer, and the sensor puts out about .78 v at idle.  I tried 
to adjust the mixture, but the sensor still puts out approx the
same voltage.

Another thing:  when I get off the throttle (while car is moving) 
I measure a negative voltage.  I don't remember the old sensor doing
this.

Are all oxy sensors (of the same number of wires) created equal?
This is on a rotary that can have exhaust temps near 2000 F at full
throttle.

On the various displays netters have built do they average the reading
over some period of time?  This new sensor seems all over the place.

Maybe the new sensor is no good?

Any help would be appreciated

Rob
gallant@oasys.dt.navy.mil
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!oasys.dt.navy.mil!gallant (Robert Gallant)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 02:56:56 1993
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> 
> 
> > Date:  Fri, 5 Feb 93 00:04 EST
> > From:  hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
> 
> 
> >There is now a chip from Motorola available that does this and manages the
> >charge in the coil. That is, it figures out how much energy was used in the 
> 
> Part number, please :-).  Thanks John.
> 

that part is MC3334.  you will find it being used in my upcoming
article in Performance Engineering on electronic ignitions.

-tim drury

----------
Posted by: emory!calsun.gatech.edu!tdrury (Tim Drury)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 11:41:40 1993
Subject: Pontiac Connecting Rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> with was to try to use 455 Oldsmobile rods in my Pontiac motor.  I
-> have read that they are very similar to the Pontiac rods, and I
-> believe they are forged. If memory serves me correct I believe the
-> factory redline is 5500 rpm's in like a '69 442.  That is even with a
-> longer stroke then the Pontiac motor, meaning they would be able to
-> withstand a higher redline in the 455 Pontiac.  The Olds rods are
-> also longer than the Pontiac's, 6.735 in. vs. 6.625 in.  This would
-> improve the rod to stroke ratio slightly.  Does anyone know if this
-> would work? Would the clearances on the bearings be correct?  Would
-> the side clearance be

 You'll have to mosey on down to an engine rebuilder's and measure a
couple of rods to find out the width.  If the Olds rods are wider, no
problem.  Just have them narrowed when you have them rebuilt.  If
they're narrower, you'd be better off looking for something else if the
side clearance comes out to more than .025 or so, unless you want to
braze some metal to the sides before resizing.

 Narrowing is no problem.  We Ford fans have to narrow practically
everything since Fords have the narrowest journals around.

 To save you some time, the Olds rods are supposed to be .935 wide.
I'd be very interested in the width of the Pontiac rods.

 Since the difference in rod length between the Olds and Pontiac is .11,
you could probably just chuck the pistons in a lathe and turn off most
or all of the rim around the dished area for instant flat-tops with the
correct pin height.  This would save the $600 or so a set of custom
pistons would cost.  You can safely turn .050-.080 off the actual piston
deck with no problem, more if you're not likely to have detonation.

 All Olds rods use a .980 pin.  By a wild stroke of luck, Pontiac *ALSO*
uses .980!  No boring or bushing required.

 Remember this rig will have to be rebalanced.  The balancer should have
enough metal to work over the rods and pistons without having to add
heavy metal to the crank.  In fact, if you invested in a set of thinwall
pins you'd probably be real close to start with.
                                                                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 11:46:57 1993
Subject: Re: T400 instruction
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> the 13thand 14th.  If it is among the stuff, I will e-mail you for
-> your address and fire it yourway.

 Thanks, Mike.  I just got mail from Mark Looper (who also seems to have
packrat blood) and he'll be sending some copies my way.

 I love this list.  If I'd posted a message like that in r.a.t., someone
would have wanted to know if a shift kit was better than pink windshield
wipers...
                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 11:52:32 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Dave Williams writes
> -> Dennis Bednarek writes
> -> be checked at the competition site, against a set standard determined
> -> by the local dmv or dtp of that state.
> ->      Legal bumper height
> ->      legal smog equipment
> ->      legal tire sizes and dot approved
> ->      legal emissions
> ->      etc. etc etc.
> 
>  I'd be in hog heaven with an Arkansas plate.  No bumpers required, no
> smog check, no limit on tire sizes, DOT approval not required (the only
> restrictions are on studded tires, and wear bars can't show), no window
> glass, doors, hood, fenders, or anything else required.

Well Arkanasa laws may be lenient however a lot of these are covered
under The federal boys laws on polution and saftey which the federal
government is allowing the states to monitor in exchange for all the 
federal road money.  Sooner or later the fedas will say Arkansas no more
money for ypou unless you enforce our laws.  Thats when you want to be
in the scrape iron business in Arkansas.
> 
> 
>  Looks like the choices would be:
> 
>      a) Car must be legal and registered in home state/county.
>      b) Car must be legal in the state/county of the test.
>      c) Car doesn't have to be legal anywhere, but must meet some
>         arbitrary requirements set by the testers.
> 

My vote is for B.  This keeps everybody running by the same rules and
you can still call it a street competition.  If ypou vote for C then
it really is not a street competition and you might as well then go by
the NHRA rule book.  Many classes for many types of off street machines.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 11:57:11 1993
Subject: Re: same number, different engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Not only did MoPar make two different 426s they also made two different
383s:

About the 426s. Are you talking about the Max-Wdge and Hemi versions or
the two types of Hemis. Race and Street. The Max-Wedge was made until
'64, I believe. Then the Hemi replaced t as the power leader. Correct me
if I'm wrong.


take it easy,

John Stucke

----------
Posted by: emory!tfs.COM!johns (John Stucke)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 19:21:41 1993
Subject: Re: Electronc Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dan metioned some other alternatives that should be looked at.  I would
like to know more about these.  Thanks.
Tom

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 19:25:11 1993
Subject: Re: company e-mail adresses ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I wish they did.  Frankly, I would not be surprised to find that Ford is
connected to the innernet somehow.  Of course, they will probably not 
provide their addresses for obvious reasons. Mike Brattland

[Bet there's a bunch on the Internet too :-)  There are a bunch of 'em
around including on this list.  I don't post addresses without permission
so you'll have to rely on them speaking up.  Bunch of Ford guys on the
net too.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 19:33:11 1993
Subject: Re: Red Ram Hemi
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>I thought that the Polyspheric engine was Plymouth only. I always wanted to
>say I had a HEMI under the hood.
The correct answer here is--sort of. Some blocks were used with hemi heads,
some with poly heads, some with both. Even the 354 came with poly heads,
in some car lines. Called a spitfire, I believe.

>Somehow a POLY just doesn't cut it.  Sounds like a green bird on a tread
>wheel that gets 25 miles per cracker!

Careful here, old buddy, after all, where do you think GM got the idea for
the 396/427 from?

JD
expecting to be roasted for that last comment ;-)

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 20:25:47 1993
Subject: Re: Electronc Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> Educate me a bit, please.  I assume the Duraspark "box" is the pickup
>-> module that "talks" to the coil.

> Nope, the pickup module is inside the distributor.  The Duraspark box
>is the part that mounts to the fender.


>-> If I remember right the MSD 6A is the processor box that does all
>-> the advance/retard/monitoring for more efficient ignition.

> Beats me.  I got a lot of fancy color advertising in from MSD, but they
>didn't bother telling what their stuff *did*, just how wonderful it'd be
>after I wrote them a fat check.

>[It is strictly a multiple discharge CDI box.  You have to buy other 
>expensive red boxes to do advance control and such.  Even the rev 
>limiter requires buying the MSD 6AL. I think the box itself is worth
>the money, particularly if you can find somone to sell it to you at jobber
>price but I think some of their other stuff is, ah, high.  JGD]

>-> So you like the MSD 6A but not the Duraspark setup, right?

> Right.


>-> I have been thinking about installing some sort of ignition
>-> enhancement on the Camaro project.  It has a std HEI ignition with no
>-> frills.  I wouldn't mind having a "smarter" ignition system and
>-> possibly a knock sensor as well.
>-> What do you recommend?

> I'm a reactionary.  Contrary to what the car magazines say, I like the
>HEI just fine.  It's a very nice system, reliable, compact, etc, etc,
>and has enough spark to knock you on your ass.  

Yes, this is a perennial favorite training demo, just spinning the shaft by 
hand on a removed one will knock you on your ass, if you can get a victimm
to hold onto a plug lead ;-)

To the best of my
>knowlege nobody is making an inexpensive knock sensor rig anymore, like
>the old $75 Carter Knock Eliminator.  You can get the factory parts to
>add a knock sensor to the HEI - John posted some information on this
>some months ago - but unless you find a truck to strip the parts from,
>the Chevy dealer will hit for your in the neighborhood of $350.  I'd buy
>a spring and weight kit and play with the curve a bit, but unless you're
>doing something radical I wouldn't worry about dropping a lump of cash
>to replace a good HEI.

>[I think the HEI is a pretty good system too, and will have hard data
>to prove it after I finish my testing for the upcoming ignition article.
>JGD]

Good, will look for this stuff. Only perf. oriented complaint that seems
to have some merit is lack of high rpm capability. While this sounds like
a control unit type of problem, I have noticed, on EVERY HEI I have set
up and run in a synchrograph, that timing accuracy starts to go away at
around 5000 revs, and the arrows are all over the dial over 6000, compared
to any old ford or mopar electronic distributor. I have picked severely
studentized examples out of a junkbox, bang the pickup sorta straight,
and then run it as fast as the synchrograph will go without problems.
I dont understand this, and have not put a lot of time into it, so input
would be welcome :-)

Jim Davies





----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 20:30:34 1993
Subject: Re: 383cid SB Chevy - AGAIN
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> castings for forgings. They even tried it on the V12 aircraft engine
>-> that Henry had developed for the P40 Ford was gonna licence build in
>-> WW2. Too bad he cancelled it in a fit of pique ;-( That was one
>-> interesting engine! Of course, 2/3 of it turned up in tanks later. Be
>-> a good subject for your engines-of-yore serial, Dave.

> It'd be a good subject, except I've never heard of it!  I'm not into
>aircraft stuff, though if you'd like to write a page or two on the
>subject I'll certainly read it!  
>                                            

This thing looks like a Big-Block V8 when you first see it (the V8 tank
engine) as far as size goes. Its a 60 degree, not 90 degree engine,
which is why its so narrow for 1100 cubes. Aluminum block and heads,
with 4 valves/cyl., DOHC per bank and about the neatest cam drive
setup Ive ever seen :-) Anyway, this is also getting a little off
topic for alt.hotrod, so let me know if you want more and I will email you
some info.

JD


----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 20:35:05 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> lets not forget the 427 SOHC, which was a top-end bolt onon the 427
>-> block OK, what did I leave out??

> The cammer block had slightly different oil drainback provision than
>the wedge.   According to the info I have, the cammer heads will bolt
>on, but you need to do a little machine work to make everything work
>right.

> Sorta like putting Mopar Hemi heads on a wedge block, I guess.
>                                                      

Ford stated at the time of introduction that the normal 427 block
could be used for the SOHC top end. For the hemi-head mopar conversion,
the wedge block is missing all the inboard head stud holes--the material
is not even on the wedge block, so you cant drill it! Seems to me that
the block was scalloped for pushrod clearance, also.

JD


----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 20:40:02 1993
Subject: Re: Limited Slip vs. Positraction
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


> I have the impression that the two are somehow different, but have never
>gotten it clear in my mind. Anybody able to explain? I have one diff with a
>spring and clutch pack center section. I just got another which the guy kept
>saying was limited slip, but the way he described it, it acted like an open
>diff. I didn't care, since it looked clean and was a freebie thrown in on the
>motor deal. I haven't popped the lid yet. It does have outboard keepers, not
>C-clips, anyway. Older GM 10-bolt. Definitely not locked or clutched in the
>same way as the other rear I have. Comments?

A point to keep in mind is that Positraction is a sales related/invented
name, in the same way that sure-grip, equa-lock, twin-traction, safe-t-track
and god knows what else is. Most of these components were supplied by outside
vendors, Eaton and Spicer/Dana being the big players, therefor, a Spicer
Powr-Lok type unit could be found in an early mopar or chevy, whereas
a Borg-Warner spin-resistant could be found in a 69 or later mopar or
olds 10 bolt, or even a quadra-trac transfer case. Another player, of course, isDetroit Automotive, but their locker has never been factory-available in CARS.
The premier unit, IMHO, is Gleason Gears unit, currently called the Torsen, 
and formerly called the Dual-Drive. All this stuff breaks down into a
few design types, so describe your unit a bit more, and Ill try to help.
Off line, I think ;-)

Jim Davies
 

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 20:45:15 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>[very interesting fuel rating article deleted]

> Thanks!


>-> coming out of engines, but not from detonation, they just werent
>-> strong enough for the forces of normal combustion :-) Merlins put out
>-> 2200 HP on about 45 psig manifold pressure, so the 1710 was getting
>-> about *SWAG mode* say 65-70 psig at the intake valve.

> 1710 what?  1710 cubic inch?

> That doesn't sound like a whole lot of power for 50-55 pounds of boost.
>          
Dont forget, the above was a guess, as the source didnt state the boost,
or the exact blend for the 2800hp-V1710 test. Something to keep in mind
is that IC engines dont scale up well, in other words, if you doubled the
size of an engine you wouldnt get double the HP. This assumes you are
doubling the displacement without increasing the number of cylinders.
Another thing to remember about these HP aircraft piston engines is that
even though they used all the latest types of design ideas eg Aluminum
blocks/heads, usually 4 valves/cylinder, OHCams, sodium cooled valves
(invented for A/C engines) turbos, superchargers, charge cooling etc.,
there duty cycle was similar to a boat or truck engine. In other words,
an engine rated at, say, 1500 HP would operate for hours ata time at a
large percentage of this rating, say, 1200 HP. Consider doing that in
your average car engine. 

Found some specs from Rolls-Royce re the merlin (V-1650) which might
be of interest:
merlin 66--2050 HP @ 25 lb. boost(dry) or, 1.24 hp/cu. in
merlin RM17SM--2200 HP @ 30 lb. boost(dry)
--max. endurance tested @ 36 lb. boost (wet)--2640 HP
they also endurance tested a few for 100 hrs @ 18 lbs boost
Note: all tests done at 3000 RPM, which is 3000 FPM piston speed,
or the same piston speed as a 302 Ford turning 6000 RPM. To put
it into a context we can understand, this would be equivelant to
testing a 302 at about 380 HP @ 6000 RPM for 100 hours. All this
military engine stuff was limited in HP output by detonation, and
few engines were at WOT at maximum HP ratings. Some could get 30-40%
increase in power if suitable fuel was available, simply by opening
the throttle more.

JD



----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 20:50:23 1993
Subject: Any tips on curing an exhaust leak?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Hi.  I've just had a set of chromed BBK 1 5/8" headers installed on my
'86 Mustang.  The first time I left the shop, they leaked *bad*!  The
shop owner suggested these things sometimes clear themselves up.  (??) I
didn't buy it, and a second effort involving some persuasion with a
board and a floor jack was better, but I can still hear a leak when I
get on the gas.  Apparently the header end is displaced laterally from
where the rest of the exhaust thinks it should be.

Any ideas? My first race of the season is on the 14th.


----------
Posted by: emory!sybase.com!joe (Joseph Weinstein)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 20:54:09 1993
Subject: Private to Mark Russell at Motorola
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



Sorry everyone, I hate to do this but......


Mark, any mail I send to you bounces back.  Would you please send some
mail directly to me (along with a phone number), so I can trace the
headers.


Thanks.



	--- Dan  
		

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 23:29:25 1993
Subject: Horiba Inst, UEGO, BMEP, BSFC, life...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


On Jan 7, 1993, the following exchange transpired regarding
the use of oxygen sensors:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Horuba, should this be Horiba Instruments?

[yes.  Well, they ARE next to each other on the keyboard :-)


Today I talked to a Horiba Instruments representative. After I convince him I
did not wish to buy a MEXA110 analyzer for $8800 he informed me that the most
inexpensive UEGO bases analyzer was approximately $2500 :(. This unit was not
even a standard catalog item, but rather a special item used to test race cars.

[Yes, they had this stuff on display at the PRI show.  $2500 is list; they
intimated that selling price was much less.  JGD]


During our discussion, I was told that Horiba and, I believe he said, General
Electric teamed together to develop the first UEGO sensors in the '70s. Since
then, NGK, under some sort of agreement, was selected to produce the current
sensors. He implied that NGK would not be able to directly sell UEGO's. The
sensor itself with no electronics cost roughly $900 :( , and this was
apparently due to the low production volume. I could tell he was "dying" to
sell detroit on the idea of using these in there cars due to the wider fuel/air
ratios covered. In passing I mentioned the above Motes reference, and the
response was of the sort "... if anyone else is using a UEGO for this type of
application, *I'm going to sue them* ... we own the rights ..." Any how, I've
found myself discouraged on the prospect of obtaining a UEGO.

John, $250 for the sensor and electronics? Is it possible that these
analzyers were indeed lambda sensor based?

Who/where/what is Motes?

[Boy was that guy full of &#$%^*.  Here's a quick brain dump.

Motes is made in Astralia and imported by JGM Automotive tooling, 5692
Buckingham Drive, Huntington Beach, CA 92649, 714 895 7001.  Person I
chatted with at PRI was Jim Munn.  Jim indicated they use a inexpensive
Bosch sensor that must be a new development.

Horiba Inst 3901 Varsity Drive, Ann Arbor, MI 48108 313 973 2171.
Person I chatted with was Rob Stawarz.  He told me the marketing manager
is Don Johnson.

On the UEGO, here is a bunch of information.  There are 2 major SAE papers of
interest, 890299 by several scientists from Hitachi, and 860409, again
by engineers at Hitachi.  A related paper is 860408 on how to drive a 
conventional zirconia sensor over a wide range using the pumped current mode.
These are in the 89, 86, and 86 editions of "Sensors & Actuators" from SAE
or can be bought individually from SAE.  

I also have on hand, compliments of "a friend" who may identify himself
if he so desires, some information that may be proprietary.

One item is the data sheet for the NTK #TL-7113 UEGO sensor and #TC-5111
control module.  Each sensor and control module is individually
calibrated.  The cal sheet example covers a range of 10:1 to 19.6:1 on
gasoline.  That pretty much covers the range of flammability for gas :-)
The notes on the drawing note that the sensor and the control module is
made by Ceramic Sensor Co, ltd, of Japan for NGK sparkplugs.

Another item is a letter from Epcom Corp, PO Box 47032, Oak Park, Michigan
48237, (313) 257 0627.  This letter covers the data sheet for the company's
Model 10630 air/fuel analyzer.  The picture looks a lot like the NTK  unit
but with a microprocessor to linearize the sensor and a digital display.
It is built into a Hammerlund cast aluminum box.  The price is listed
as $1247 ea or $987, quantity 10 (anyone interested in a bulk order? :-)
The unit has a display and a voltage output.  Range is 8:1 to 25.5:1.
The data sheet notes that it will accept either the Hitachi or NGK sensor.

How's that for a brain dump? :-)

JGD]


Form "Holley Carburetors and Manifolds" by M. Urich and B. Fisher, maximum
economy is near 16:1 and maximum power approximately 13.3:1 (based on maximum
Brake Mean Effective Pressure (BMEP) and minimum Brake Specific Fuel
Consumption (BSFC)). In addition, the reference states that mixtures as lean as
18:1 are sometimes approached when seeking peak economy at high engine speeds
and low loads. The Edelbrock air/fuel ratio monitor works over the range 12:1
to 15:1. Not much overlap :( . Are there other portable *calibrated* exhaust
gas analzyers with a broader air/fuel range for less than, say, $500?

Finally, BMEP and BSFC in the above reference did not have a labeled y-axis.
Just how much do these quantities change as the air/fuel ratio is varied from
18:1 to 13:1?


Thanks,
John Gwynne
   jgwynne@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

----------
Posted by: John S Gwynne 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 23:36:00 1993
Subject: Re: please post this (mini turbos)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> >  Of course, the Yamaha unit has a 1.58" compressor.
->
-> Wow! That's small! I liiiikeit!
->
-> Now...just get four of those puppies, and my 510 project would
-> *really* be cooking :-)

 Due to fuel system problems, the bike hasn't run since April.  (got
some shitty gas that ate every piece of rubber in the entire fuel
system!)  I got it operational yesterday, then got all the turbo stuff
back on today.

 Besides the Stapp-like grin, I can once again scratch my ankles without
bending over.  Just point it in the appropriate direction, whack the
throttle open, and the giant Foot comes down from the heavens and kicks
your ass over the horizon.   BOOOOOOOST!

 That's the air cooled, two valve, 650cc motor.  I have a water cooled,
five valve (three intake, two exhaust), 700cc motor sitting in the shop.
It's from a Maxim X, and it's basically a cross between the Maxim/Seca
motor and the FZR Genesis mill.  Most importantly, it has the Seca
cylinder bank angle and the correct motor mounts to slide right into the
chassis.  I'll have to turn the domes off the pistons since 11.2:1 is a
little high for a turbo motor, then fabricate bracketry for the
radiator, and I'll have to turn some header extenders on the lathe since
the cylinder head on the 700 doesn't come quite far enough forward and
the Turbo headers will hit the chassis otherwise.  Then I'll have even
*more* fun!
                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb  8 23:42:21 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> >      b) Car must be legal in the state/county of the test.
-> >      c) Car doesn't have to be legal anywhere, but must meet some >
->         arbitrary requirements set by the testers.
-> >
->
-> My vote is for B.  This keeps everybody running by the same rules and
-> you can still call it a street competition.  If ypou vote for C then
-> it really is not a street competition and you might as well then go
-> by the NHRA rule book.  Many classes for many types of off street
-> machines.

 Good.  Then we hold it in Arkansas, and all the guys with the smog cars
might as well leave them on the trailer, 'cause they'll get their doors
blown off.

 Of course, if you hold it in a smog-Gestapo state like California,
where you would have to have a special California car to even qualify...
                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 00:45:50 1993
Subject: hydraulic lifters - how do they work ? (var.duration&)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> built up - but how do they exactly work ? How do those socalled
-> "Variable-Duration"  lifters  work  & what's different in their

 Basically, they're pre-worn-out lifters with a very high bleed rate.
At low RPM so much oil escapes they can't open the valves all the way.
As revs come up, they are able to open the valve properly before the oil
bleeds off.

 No magic there, except I've always wondered how long they'd last.
                                                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 00:51:36 1993
Subject: company e-mail adresses ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Here's another one : have company's like RHS or PAW e-mail adresses ?
-> Please post any adresses you know of !

 The closest I know of is FAX numbers.  You need the big address list at
Performance Engineering's mail server.


 The newest version of this list may be obtained via internet mail from
Performance Engineering Magazines's mail server.  To retrieve it, send
mail to listserv@dixie.com and in the body of the message include the
following:
             address    (optional)
             send vendors
                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 00:57:18 1993
Subject: How to detect/prevent leaning out?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> leaning out the fuel mixture while under boost.  Is there some way I
-> can measure the fuel mixture?  Maybe some sort of sensor in the
-> exhaust? How about exhaust temp?  Will it raise and lower dramaticly

 An oxygen sensor in the exhaust would probably be the simplest way to
see if you're running too lean.

 You might also order a copy of B&M's Blower Handbook.  It's slanted
toward B&M products, of course, but it has an astonishing (well, to me
anyway) amount of good, useful information on blower setup, tuning,
and the like.  My copy was $6 from a local speed shop's book rack.
                                                                                             
[I meant to mention in my brain dump previously, a very reliable method
of measuring A/F ratio on a fuel injected car is to measure the output
of the MAF sensor for air and compute the fuel flow from how long the 
injector is open, and the flow capacity of the injector, 
and do a simple division.  IF you use a GM MAF whose output is a variable
frequency pulse train, you can do the whole thing through the parallel
port of a PC. Just use the microsecond timer code from my fuel injector
flow bench software and tweak it around to read bits instead of outputting
them.  Hook the injector signal through a diode pointing toward the 
computer to one bit and the MAF to another and measure when the bits
change.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 01:02:48 1993
Subject: I too love this list...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Dave-- Cast any intake manifolds yet?

 Not yet.  I've been sidetracked into other projects, plus I think I'll
stay with the small stuff for the next few tries.  
           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 10:48:07 1993
Subject: Subscribe addresses for Mustang and MOPAR Lists
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Can someone provide me with the 
current 
e-mail subscription addresses for the two subject lists. Thanks.
Mike 

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive                      |  (Ford 302, Tri-Power,
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   |  4 spd, 9 inch)
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 11:03:22 1993
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> 
> that part is MC3334.  you will find it being used in my upcoming
> article in Performance Engineering on electronic ignitions.


	Speaking of which, any idea when the first issue of Perf Eng 
	will be shipped.

	Thanks...

[Tentative schedule is for first of march.  I have a deal underway 
that should be consumated in the next few days that will firm up the date.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!gvls1.VFL.Paramax.COM!sloride!derekp (Derek Pietro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 11:15:26 1993
Subject: Re: hydraulic lifters - how do they work ? (var.duration&)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> -> built up - but how do they exactly work ? How do those socalled
> -> "Variable-Duration"  lifters  work  & what's different in their
> 
>  Basically, they're pre-worn-out lifters with a very high bleed rate.
> At low RPM so much oil escapes they can't open the valves all the way.
> As revs come up, they are able to open the valve properly before the oil
> bleeds off.
  
  A friend of mine talked to Dave Crower about these when he was
looking for a cam profile for his 327.  Even though Crower makes/sells
their own version of this type of lifter, he strongly discouraged
my friend from using them.  You'll never get full lift/duration out of
your cam with this type of lifter, according to what I heard secondhand.
They might be neat for a daily driver, but have no place in a bracket racer.

> ----------
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 11:21:59 1993
Subject: Re: Electronc Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> 
> >[I think the HEI is a pretty good system too, and will have hard data
> >to prove it after I finish my testing for the upcoming ignition article.
> >JGD]
> 
> Good, will look for this stuff. Only perf. oriented complaint that seems
> to have some merit is lack of high rpm capability. While this sounds like
> a control unit type of problem, I have noticed, on EVERY HEI I have set
> up and run in a synchrograph, that timing accuracy starts to go away at
> around 5000 revs, and the arrows are all over the dial over 6000, compared
> to any old ford or mopar electronic distributor. I have picked severely
> studentized examples out of a junkbox, bang the pickup sorta straight,
> and then run it as fast as the synchrograph will go without problems.
> I dont understand this, and have not put a lot of time into it, so input
> would be welcome :-)
> 
> Jim Davies
> 

Jim,

I don't think you'll find this a problem with this ignition system.  It
has been designed to run on a Formula SAE car powered by a Honda CBR 600.
max RPM will be 15000.  High enough for you?

-tim drury

----------
Posted by: emory!calsun.gatech.edu!tdrury (Tim Drury)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 11:27:58 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Dave Williams wrote
> -> >      b) Car must be legal in the state/county of the test.
> -> >      c) Car doesn't have to be legal anywhere, but must meet some >
> ->         arbitrary requirements set by the testers.
> -> >
> ->
> -> My vote is for B.  This keeps everybody running by the same rules and
> -> you can still call it a street competition.  If ypou vote for C then
> -> it really is not a street competition and you might as well then go
> -> by the NHRA rule book.  Many classes for many types of off street
> -> machines.
> 
>  Good.  Then we hold it in Arkansas, and all the guys with the smog cars
> might as well leave them on the trailer, 'cause they'll get their doors
> blown off.
> 
>  Of course, if you hold it in a smog-Gestapo state like California,
> where you would have to have a special California car to even qualify...
>                       
Yes it is a dellima if you want to call it a street machine race.  A street
machine to me is a vehicle that can legally be driven on the street and meets
all local and federal laws.  Anything other than that would mean that calling
it a STREET TRIPLE CROWN is a falsity.  For non-street machines there are
loads of legal ways to race.  The NHRA has loads of catagories for you folks
Pure stock, stock, super stock, modified production, altered, funny car to
just name a few.  And if you cannot compete under those rules you can always 
try bracket racing.  But if we want to play with street machines I think its
only fair to have them all pass the same set of legal standards confirming
that they are legally street able.

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 12:37:52 1993
Subject: Re:  hydraulic lifters - how do they work ? (var.duration&)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dave Williams sez:
>Some other dude asks about variable duration lifters:
>-> built up - but how do they exactly work ? How do those socalled
>-> "Variable-Duration"  lifters  work  & what's different in their
>
> Basically, they're pre-worn-out lifters with a very high bleed rate.
>At low RPM so much oil escapes they can't open the valves all the way.
>As revs come up, they are able to open the valve properly before the oil
>bleeds off.
>
> No magic there, except I've always wondered how long they'd last.

My friends have run Rhodes lifters in everything from a 400 SB Chevy
tow truck to a 440 Satellite Convertible.  I personally have run them in
two engines: a 396 and a 350.  I probably still have the Rhodes literature
somewhere, but their basic slant is that the valves open fully, but
because the lifters bleed down rapidly, at lower RPM the duration the
valve is open is drastically lessened.  I recall the literature saying
that at RPM's higer than 3000, the lifters effectively work the same
as normal hydraulic lifters.  Sounded good to me, since I was building
"torque" applications.  The set in the 350, now with about 40,000 miles
on them are rather noisy.  3.5 years later, the car still runs the same
1/4 mile times.  The engine does seem to have an unusually long and flat
torque curve...  I don't personally know anyone who did dyno tests
or watched their 1/4 mile times change with strictly the lifter mod.
So maybe all the benefit is in my mind???   Oh, yeah, the Rhodes literature
claimed the the "mild solid lifter sound" was from the valves closing
faster than normal at lower RPMs.

Hope this helped...
JC.  jca@fibercom.com

----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (J.C. "J. Hoss" Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 12:44:13 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>Dont forget, the above was a guess, as the source didnt state the boost,
>or the exact blend for the 2800hp-V1710 test. Something to keep in mind
...
>testing a 302 at about 380 HP @ 6000 RPM for 100 hours. All this
>military engine stuff was limited in HP output by detonation, and
>few engines were at WOT at maximum HP ratings. Some could get 30-40%
>increase in power if suitable fuel was available, simply by opening
>the throttle more.
>
>JD
>Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)

Very interesting.  Any idea what the composition of that 270 PN fuel was? 
Also, was the 145 PN fuel basically an aromatic base stock with lots of
lead?

Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 12:48:32 1993
Subject: Edelbrock / Weber FI System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Just got my latest copy of Street Rodder and saw a 1/3 page ad describing 
a new Edelbrock/Weber FI system. Based on the 68HC11, includes standard 
Victor Jr manifold with injectors installed, fuel pump, fuel rails, etc. with
a Mickey Mouse looking head unit for changing parameters. Looked very 
interesting until i saw the $3000 sticker. It was nice, bit it ain't no 
three grand worth of nice. 

Is that you Mike Brattland that was mentioned in Frank Oddo's column in Street
Rodder?

Jeff Armfield
cr00jsa@ctccummins.cummins.com

----------
Posted by: emory!ctccummins.cummins.com!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 12:53:03 1993
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> 
> [I think the HEI is a pretty good system too, and will have hard data
> to prove it after I finish my testing for the upcoming ignition article.
> JGD]
> 

I've heared that the MSD 6H should be the box for the HEI. Is this an old
box, and what are the difference between the MSD 6H and MSD 6A?

I'm happy with my HEI but it could be better.

Leif

----------
Posted by: emory!tde.lth.se!leif (Leif Olsson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 14:36:40 1993
Subject: Re: Subscribe addresses for Mustang and MOPAR Lists
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In article <6zssxda@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>Can someone provide me with the 
>current 
>e-mail subscription addresses for the two subject lists. Thanks.
>Mike 

The Mustangs list (you're interested in late models, I assume?) is run
by Gary Gitzen (garyg@cup.hp.com), and the request address is
mustangs-request@cup.hp.com.  I don't have the Mopar address, being a
true-blue Ford fan.
 -- Chuck Fry  Chucko@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov


----------
Posted by: emory!ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov!chucko (Chuck Fry)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 14:46:02 1993
Subject: Re: Subscribe addresses for Mustang and MOPAR Lists
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>Subject: Subscribe addresses for Mustang and MOPAR Lists
>
>Can someone provide me with the 
>current 
>e-mail subscription addresses for the two subject lists. Thanks.
>Mike 

I don't do Mustangs, but here's the Mopar info:

mopar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu, to join contact jarvis@casbah.acns.nwu.edu
>
>===========================================================================
>Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
>600 Coldstream Drive                      |  (Ford 302, Tri-Power,
>El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   |  4 spd, 9 inch)
>619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
>619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
>                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
>    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
>                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
>For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
>===========================================================================
>
(I don't see any Mopars on that list - whatcha got?)

David Wright - 65 Plymouth Belvedere II 4-door 273
	       74 Dodge Challenger Rallye 360

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 15:58:45 1993
Subject: Edelbrock / Weber FI System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>Just got my latest copy of Street Rodder and saw a 1/3 page ad describing
>a new Edelbrock/Weber FI system. Based on the 68HC11, includes standard
>Victor Jr manifold with injectors installed, fuel pump, fuel rails, etc. with
>a Mickey Mouse looking head unit for changing parameters. Looked very
>interesting until i saw the $3000 sticker. It was nice, bit it ain't no
>three grand worth of nice.

that price is ridiculous.  dont be thrilled by the 68hc11, it only
costs $5.  i just received four 68hc16s.  these make the hc11s look
like 50's technology.  the hc16 runs at 16 to 25 mhz compared with
2 to 8 mhz for the hc11.  it has many more functions.  i'm going
to build an fi system with the hc16 and like the ignition controller
i've built for GT Motorsports (to be explained in Perf. Eng.) it
should cost less than $150.

it makes me giddy with greed to think of the mark-up this system
would get on the commercial market.

-tim drury


----------
Posted by: emory!spbted.gatech.edu!tdrury
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb  9 16:07:43 1993
Subject: 1967 Forebird 400 for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


			1967 Firebird 400

Project that has not been finished:
Newly rebuilt motor, balanced with high volume oil pump, slightly more
radical cam.
Edlebrock performer manifold, carter AFB performer carb.
Refurbished Turbo 400 transmission with B&M comp. shift kit
Rebuilt 292 positrac rear end
1"Herb Adams sway bars 
Stainless steel bushing kit and Nitrogen filled shocks (not installed)
Front end bushings and ball joints replaced <4,000 miles ago
Radiator, heater core and water pump replaced <5,000 miles ago
89,000 original miles, second owner
Needs paint and interior
I have most of the stock parts that have been replaced

$5,000.00 obo

If interested, reply via e-mail or phone, as this is posted in some
groups that I don't read.

*********************************************************************
Tom Dietrich             
e-mail txd@Able.MKT.3Com.COM                   Ma Bell (408) 764-5874
*********************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!able.mkt.3com.com!txd (Tom Dietrich)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 06:21:03 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Bob Hale on The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
: Yes, it's gone.  California now applies the same requirements to
: vehicles in any part of the state.  Also, the exemption for
: vehicles above 8500 pounds GVWR is gone.  The state hasn't yet
: started to do anything about Diesel inspections but I believe
: that is coming too.  Also, there's a possibility of the inspections
: going to an annual basis.

What frequency is it now?  Here in AZ we have annual emissions inspections.

: All of you guys outside of California may be enjoying your
: freedoms now, but problems created by the California government
: tend to be copied by other states.  Know your representatives
             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So true.  Arizonans can attest to that!

: and let them know your opinions!

DER

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Don Robinson    (602) 752-6466     Internet:  vlsiphx!donr@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
   ** Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, **
   ** my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.   **

----------
Posted by: emory!marble.UUCP!donr (Don Robinson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 06:43:11 1993
Subject: maf sensor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


would a microphone element work as a maf sensor?  a electret mic or a
piezo mike cartridge placed in the airflow stream would be very
inexpensive.

[I'm not sure what you'd be measuring.  there is a flowmeter technology
called vortex shedding that uses microphones for detection.  It works
by placing an airfoil in the flow.  The air flow sheds vortices off
its trailing edge.  A microphone can be placed in that area to count
the pressure transients.  A ready-made MAF would be a lot easier to use,
of course.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 06:52:29 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In alt.hotrod you write:

>>Dont forget, the above was a guess, as the source didnt state the boost,
>>or the exact blend for the 2800hp-V1710 test. Something to keep in mind
>...
>>testing a 302 at about 380 HP @ 6000 RPM for 100 hours. All this
>>military engine stuff was limited in HP output by detonation, and
>>few engines were at WOT at maximum HP ratings. Some could get 30-40%
>>increase in power if suitable fuel was available, simply by opening
>>the throttle more.
>>
>>JD
>>Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)

>Very interesting.  Any idea what the composition of that 270 PN fuel was? 

this was triptane *trimethylbutane* plus 4cc TEL gives 270 PN rich, or, in
a liquid cooled engine 270/270 PN. In other words, a rich A/F mixture is
of no extra value in knock suppression in a *mild* engine.
 
[Fuels handbook lists triptane as RON 112, MON 101.  Elsewhere it is 
rated as equal in octane to isooctane with 1.8 ml/gal TEL.  JGD]


Others of possible interest include:

octane *trimethylpentane* plus 1 cc TEL/US gallon gives 125 PN, which
sounds like the same number JGD mentioned.

octane plus 4 cc lead gives a grade 153/153

--there are only about 6 hydrocarbons known that will give a lean PN
of around 150 wth 4cc TEL

there were various 150 PN fuels. The brits made 100/130 into 100/150 by:
adding 2 t0 2 1/2% methyl aniline, plus total TEL raised to 6 cc/ US gal.

US version of 100/150 used 100/130 plus 3% Xylidine

>Also, was the 145 PN fuel basically an aromatic base stock with lots of
>lead?

lean PN was important for cruise RANGE, especially in severe engines, therefor
the interest in raising this. This was a goal of the US navy, due to there
large numbers of air-cooled engines. They wanted grade 120/150 but settled
for 115/145 which went into production around VE day, and cost a large
price in 100/130 production- for every gallon of 115/145 produced, 100/130
production dropped 2 gallons, because only selected octanes could be used,
therefor, 100/130 could not be reblended into 115/145. TEL about 4cc/gallon.



Jim Davies
----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 11:53:17 1993
Subject: Re:  Edelbrock / Weber FI System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I'm familiar with the 'hc11 since we're using it as a basis some control systemshere. For our next generation ECMs, we're looking at using the 68331 chip. I
know the 'hc11 is dirt cheap which is why the $3000 sticker looked laughable
to me.

Jeff Armfield
cr00jsa@ctccummins.cummins.com

----------
Posted by: emory!ctccummins.cummins.com!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 11:57:31 1993
Subject: Re:  maf sensor
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>would a microphone element work as a maf sensor?  a electret mic or a
>piezo mike cartridge placed in the airflow stream would be very
>inexpensive.
>	
These devices will only measure the fluctuating pressure, not
the static pressure.

Jeff

----------
Posted by: emory!kirkof.psu.edu!jag (Jeff Giordano)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 12:26:46 1993
Subject: How to detect/prevent leaning out?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> and do a simple division.  IF you use a GM MAF whose output is a
-> variable frequency pulse train, you can do the whole thing through

 That reminds me.  Does anyone have info on the GM MAFs?  I need to know
the min/max pulsewidth, voltage, and whether it uses a reference
voltage.

 Second, is there a cheaper MAF to work with?  New ones are +/- $150,
and I'm not real happy about trusting a junkyard part that has lain in a
mudhole for a few months.
                                                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 12:31:41 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> it a STREET TRIPLE CROWN is a falsity.  For non-street machines there
-> are loads of legal ways to race.  The NHRA has loads of catagories
-> for you folks Pure stock, stock, super stock, modified production,

 Yeah, but as far as I know the NHRA only sanctions drag races.  SCTA
and some others do top-end runs, the SCCA (the scum) and Equipe Rapide
do autocross, and ne'er the several shall meet.

 I don't really care if we're dealing with a "legal street" car here.
There are 50 states and Baud alone knows how many counties and cities
all with their very own safety and smog laws, or none, as the case may
be.  Trying to make it a "run what ya brung" is never going to fly
without some arbitrary set of rules.

 To the best of my knowlege, there is no racing organization sponsoring
an all-around test of a vehicle's performance capability.  I'd like to
see such a thing.  Think of the options!  Assuming all categories were
equal in points, how would you balance the contradictory requirements
for drag racing and top speed?  Once you drop in the twin turbo big
block, how much will it hurt the autocross times?  Maybe you could run
in a Solo I type high speed curvy section too.  Then require the cars
run the entire course in the same trim they were teched in as - same
tires, same rear axle, same induction, etc.
    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 12:37:12 1993
Subject: Edelbrock / Weber FI System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Just got my latest copy of Street Rodder and saw a 1/3 page ad
-> describing a new Edelbrock/Weber FI system. Based on the 68HC11,
-> includes standard Victor Jr manifold with injectors installed, fuel
-> pump, fuel rails, etc. with a Mickey Mouse looking head unit for
-> changing parameters. Looked very interesting until i saw the $3000
-> sticker. It was nice, bit it ain't no three grand worth of nice.

 Those are very hot in Europe right now.  The British importer sells
them with two barrel throttle bodies that are a direct bolt-on
replacement for Weber DCOE or Dell'Orto DHLA carbs.  Edelbrock evidently
swung their own deal.
                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 13:11:03 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Don Robinson asks about the frequency of California vehicle
inspections.  At the present time the inspections are done
every two years.  If your VIN ends in an odd digit then you
get inspected in an odd year, otherwise in an even year.

For those who may be curious, in California the process is
that you find a state-licensed but privately-owned shop to
do the inspection for you.  If you don't pass and can't pass
even after spending $x then you can visit the referee board
which is a state-run facility which has the authority to
make waivers.  Although the referee board is state-run it
is actually contracted to one or more private companies.
The value of $x varies with the model year of the vehicle
starting from a low of $50 or $60 up to $300 or $450 - newer
vehicles have a higher limit.

BTW, the $x limit does not apply if there has been "tampering"
with the vehicle's emission control systems.  In other words, if
there is anything non-stock then the limit doesn't apply.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net

----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (Bob Hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 13:20:48 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

        Reply to:   RE>How to detect/prevent leani
[Second, is there a cheaper MAF to work with?  New ones are +/- $150,
and I'm not real happy about trusting a junkyard part that has lain in a
mudhole for a few months.
                                                                               
                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)]

I happened to see an ad this Sunday for either NAPA or Champion ... they had
"GM Mass Air Flow" sensors "to fit most GM cars" on sale for "88.99-129.99".  I
know that NAPA usually wants about $110 for a MAF to fit my GN....

Bottom line is ... I think that some of the discount parts suppliers may be
able to get the MAFs cheaper than the dealer.

Ken Mosher
Buick GN:  " ... WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH! ... "
 





----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 18:54:56 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Bottom line is ... I think that some of the discount parts suppliers
-> may be able to get the MAFs cheaper than the dealer.

 I'm still getting up to speed on this stuff.  Back six or seven years
ago, all that stuff was dealer-only, and you were damned happy if you
didn't have to special order it.

 Progress..
                                                                                                                      
[Yep, though I'm still most fond of diving for goodies in the junkyard.
The kind of junkyard where the guy says "Eh?  I probably have it.  GM
on that hill, ford on this hill and mopar over on that one.  Get what
you want."  I go with the bolt cutters and the Carolina Smoke Wrench 
(acetylene torch) in the back of the truck.  You outta seen the carcass
after I extracted the air conditioning system for my Z from an old
lincoln :-)  I've had real good luck with getting electronics from the 
junk yard as long as the weiners have not opened the intake or exhaust
and as long as the magic boxes have not gotten wet.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 10 21:28:00 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dave Williams writes:

> To the best of my knowlege, there is no racing organization sponsoring
>an all-around test of a vehicle's performance capability.  I'd like to
>see such a thing.  Think of the options!  Assuming all categories were
>equal in points, how would you balance the contradictory requirements
>for drag racing and top speed?  Once you drop in the twin turbo big
>block, how much will it hurt the autocross times?  Maybe you could run
>in a Solo I type high speed curvy section too.  Then require the cars
>run the entire course in the same trim they were teched in as - same
>tires, same rear axle, same induction, etc.

...and so we come back around to my original posting!  To remind people,
"Real Street Triple Crown" is a term I picked up out of some magazine to
describe the (fictitious) award earned by a car that can accelerate, brake,
and corner all at one gravity or more.  He's right, there is no racing
sanctioning organization running some open contest where this kind of car
would be advantageous (as far as I know, anyway); I was thinking of building
a car to enter into the annual _Car_Craft_ magazine "Real Street Eliminator"
invitational.  The most recent one was reported in the December 1992 issue,
I think, and it shows a lot of this balancing act--for example, the fastest
drag car was an 11-second 1955 Chevy, but it was last or nearly last in
braking and the slalom, not to mention in the (small-points) fuel economy
category; the winner was a 5-liter Mustang that did well in all the objective
categories, and also the subjective ones (ride-and-drive, fit-and-finish).
It was, as suggested above, a one-combination (in particular, one-set-of-tires)
event, with "triathlon"-like multiplicity of tests; anybody know how to go
about do-it-yourselfing a sanctioning body from the ground up, so more than
ten or twelve cars a year can participate?

--Mark Looper
"Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"

----------
Posted by: emory!cco.caltech.edu!looper (Mark D. Looper)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 11 12:29:17 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Okay enough is enough.

Lets class it this way.  Street and open class.

Street class must meet all polution laws that are US feds put on us.
Open can be anything safe.  Both must run on pump gasoline of XXX octane 
rating and meet minimum saftey rules as perscribed by the feds.

Sub classes are to by cubic inch to lbs ration and further divided by
	carborated, injected, and blown or nitros.  This would avoid
	the funny car from going against the original beatle.

Once the first even is entered no modifications to the vehicle would be 
allowed.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 11 12:56:48 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


> Progress..
>                                                                                                                      
>[Yep, though I'm still most fond of diving for goodies in the junkyard.
>The kind of junkyard where the guy says "Eh?  I probably have it.  GM
>on that hill, ford on this hill and mopar over on that one.  Get what
>you want."  I go with the bolt cutters and the Carolina Smoke Wrench 
>(acetylene torch) in the back of the truck.  You outta seen the carcass
>after I extracted the air conditioning system for my Z from an old
>lincoln :-)  I've had real good luck with getting electronics from the 
>junk yard as long as the weiners have not opened the intake or exhaust
>and as long as the magic boxes have not gotten wet.  JGD]

Ah, junk yards I have known! God, there are some *class* acts out there.
I still remember the one that demo'd a carbless slant 6 by stuffing a
gas soaked rag into the intake and starting it. Low tech at its best ;-)
Of course, in this neck of the woods, a torch is formally known as a gas axe.
Then there was the time we got kicked outa a hick town by the fuzz for
posession of safebreaking tools (gas axe) and beer (underage) but they let
us keep the 383 we had liberated from some hulk hanging over a cliff.
Ah, nostalgia. I love the smell of burnt type F, in the morning :-)

JD

[Now THAT brings back another old memory.  (Oh gawd, another one)  Back when
I was running heavy equipment for the gummit, my most frequent "hotrod" was
a Cat 6 wheel pan (earthmover).  The huge diesel engine used a small gasoline
"pony motor" to crank it.  Problem was, we got these things surplus off
the express barge from Viet Nam and all of 'em had had the carbs on the 
pony motors robbed (among other things.)  Der high command determined 
that carbs on pony motors were frivilous, non-essential accessories (as 
opposed to, say, air conditioned foreman's shacks) so we had to make do
with what we had.  The drill was to have an oiler stand next to the pony
motor like an old west cowboy with a can of ether in each hand.  Fire
the pony motor on ether and then try to meter the spray so the motor ran
enough to crank the diesel.  Of course, every time the oiler let it get
a bit lean, it would backfire and set the overspray on fire.  All the pans
looked like they'd taken RPGs in the side.  Huge black sploches :-)
Ahh, the good old days....  And yes, we DID dragrace these things.
Trick was dinking with the injection unit to bypass the govenor. JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 11 13:06:16 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Regarding octane ratings of TRIPTANE:
John, your ratings numbers sound like original research octane numbers
for this stuff. Apperantly there was some early controversy about the
value of this product. A rough and ready account:

Lovell (from NACA, predecessor of NASA) finds triptane to be better than
isooctane, *a great deal better*

Later tests using a different test engine/operating conditions *undefined*
show triptane to be only slightly better than isooctane

In 1938, a quantity of triptane sufficient to test in a supercharged
engine *of laboratory type* was produced and tested by the ethyl corp.--
this gave the same answer as Lovell "from this time triptane was regarded as
the last word in high PN aviation fuel"

In 1941, an army test found triptane, without TEL to have a PN of 100/165, in
other words, equal to isooctane (lean) and much better rich. The view was that
it was "the best hydrocarbon for an aviation fuel that had been seen to that
date"

Later tests by Curtiss-Wright confirmed this test

Subsequent to this, GM (research laboratories div.) built and operated a 150
gal. per day triptane plant from '43 to '45, this product going to an army
sponsored but NACA run program. "as a whole fuel, triptane plus 4cc TEL was
explored in single cylinders of various aircraft engines but none had sufficientmechanical strength to produce knock on this fuel without wrecking the cylinder.
In fact, very few lab engines used for fuel evaluation were strong enough to
permit triptane plus 4cc TEL to be appraised. NACA, however, carried out a 
very complete evaluation of triptane in blends with 100/130....The NACA tests
showed triptane to have the highest effective PN of any then known possible
hydrocarbon component of aviation fuels."

Some other info on knock testing:
The method developed was initially known as the ASTM C3 method, later
the number was changed to F4. This used a supercharged CFR engine, supplied
by Waukesha. This was based on a "long established technique used for
motor (car) fuels" BTW. isooctane plus 1cc TEL gives 125 octane fuel.
Wasnt this the upper octane limit you mentioned? Can you repeat the
name etc. of your source, I didnt get it the first time. Maybe I can
find a copy, locally.

Jim Davies

[The book is "Automotive Fuels Handbook" by Owen and Coley.  From the SAE 
press.  Very expensive (>$100).  

The triptane thread is very interesting.  This jives with a conversation I
had with a chemist affiliated with BP.  I asked him what was in the 
Formula 1 "wundergas".  He didn't know for sure but he suspected it to be
a mix of a heavy aromatic to get the heating value up, triptane and lots
of TEL to get the octane and flame propagation enhancers (proprietary 
compounds) to make the stuff burn fast enough to let the engines turn
the RPM they do.  He said he was positive, based on the smell, that a lot
of triptane was involved.  Now to find a source......  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 11 13:15:52 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

When you buy and and sell and every other year. Mike Brattland

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 11 17:35:17 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> [Yep, though I'm still most fond of diving for goodies in the
-> junkyard. The kind of junkyard where the guy says "Eh?  I probably
-> have it.  GM on that hill, ford on this hill and mopar over on that
-> one.  Get what you want."

 I remember junkyards like that, long ago.  Around here they're all
"auto recyclers" now, and wear white uniforms.  You go up to the
counter, tell them what you want, and they see if they have it, then
call the dealer for a price, knock off 25% from retail, and it's yours,
if you're willing to pay 75% of list for whatever it was you wanted.
Usually I'm not.

 They'd have a fit if you even suggested going back into their
privacy-fenced, employee-only "dismantler storage areas", particularly
without escort.

 Of course, even if you *DID* want the part, it's usually pretty hard to
make yourself heard.  They're all on this local intercom system,
jabbering and swapping parts.  "Monte Carlo front cap, front cap,
what'cha gimme for a front cap?  Lookin' for a blue '91 Toyota door,
Toyota door..."  and then there's a national echo system of some sort
running too, also at earsplitting volume.

 Pfaugh.

[Yep, that seems to be what we have here in Atlanta.  The best place in the 
Southeast for junkyards IMNO is Cleveland, TN.  Known as the odometer
rollback capital of the world, there are something like 300 licensed 
used car dealers in this town of 20,000.  Yep, this is the place you saw
on "60 minutes".  There must be at least 20 HUGE junkyards around that town.  
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 11 21:27:54 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article , hotrod@dixie.com writes...
>hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> 
> 
>>-> lets not forget the 427 SOHC, which was a top-end bolt onon the 427
>>-> block OK, what did I leave out??
> 
>> The cammer block had slightly different oil drainback provision than
>>the wedge.   According to the info I have, the cammer heads will bolt
>>on, but you need to do a little machine work to make everything work
>>right.

Mainly, from what I remember (read, actually, don't remember much from
'65 :-)) the camshaft bearings had to be more or less plugged (with plugs
that let the oil travel through them.  Don't want to stop flow to the crank
now.)  Also, the number 1 (and 2, I think, for purposes of stability) cam
bearings were fitted with a "dummy" cam which was used to drive the oil
pump/distributor assembly.

> 
>> Sorta like putting Mopar Hemi heads on a wedge block, I guess.
>>                                                      
> 
>Ford stated at the time of introduction that the normal 427 block
>could be used for the SOHC top end. For the hemi-head mopar conversion,
>the wedge block is missing all the inboard head stud holes--the material
>is not even on the wedge block, so you cant drill it! Seems to me that
>the block was scalloped for pushrod clearance, also.

Although you can pick up a 427 block for a relatively reasonable price, (I
saw one at a swap meet for $150, and boy did I *want* to pick it up.  Space
limitations and physical strength sort of got in the way :( )
the cammer *heads* are, well, quite expensive.  You may be able to get away
with duping someone into thinking their side-oiler can be gotten elsewhere
"cheap", but anyone with one or more SOHC heads *knows* what they're worth.

> 
>JD
> 
> 
>----------
>Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)

Anyone know anything (like you Ford guys who don't include your addresses)
about the Mustang Mach III prototype.  Mostly, like:  Is Ford actually 
planning on supercharging a 4.6L DOHC for the public???  Now *that* would
put a little fun into a T-Bird SC (the car could kind of use 450 horses,
since it weighs almost 2 tons).

Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"

						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!venus.lerc.nasa.gov!edwlt12 (Mike Jamison (ADF))
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 11 21:34:34 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Lets class it this way.  Street and open class.

 Interesting idea.


-> Street class must meet all polution laws that are US feds put on us.

 No help there.  Several states have regulations much more stringent
than the Federal ones.  Since the builders would presumably shoot for
the lowest standard, you'd wind up with unstreetable machines again.
Also, it kinda locks out any Canadians who'd want to compete.


-> Both must run on pump gasoline of XXX octane

 Why limit to gasoline?  If someone wants to run propane, CNG, or corn
squeezin's, it's fine with me.


-> Sub classes are to by cubic inch to lbs ration and further divided by
->      carborated, injected, and blown or nitros.  This would avoid

 I dunno.  There are already enough variables.  If, after a certain
number of events, it became apparent a certain type of car was able to
consistently win (such as the Honda CRX's reign of terror in SCCA
autocross) then Something Should Be Done.  Otherwise, it seems like a
lot of hassle for not much.  Back long, long ago drag races were run by
eliminations, and at the end of the day, one lone car took the prize.
Now it's all brackets, and you can lose every damned run and still win.
Madness.  I'd like to see things as simple as they could be made.  God
alone knows the existing racing organizations don't think they've
accomplished anything until you have to have a priest interpret the
rulebook.


-> Once the first even is entered no modifications to the vehicle would
-> be allowed.

 I agree 100%.  Otherwise people like me would be swapping entire
powertrains between events.  
                                                                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 11 21:38:29 1993
Subject: stroker cranks
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 I just got another call from a guy who wanted to know what crank some
of the Brit engine builders are using to get 2.9 liters out of a 2.0
Pinto motor.  I told him I didn't know.  

 Apparently, so the story goes, someone found a Toyota crank that would
fit after some massaging.  That's not as bizarre as it sounds - some
places sell "universal" forged cranks you can machine for your Chevy,
Ford, or Chrysler.

 Anyway, has anyone come across anything on this?
                                                                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 00:56:51 1993
Subject: shortening rods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 While perusing a 1977 issue of Cycle Magazine, I found something rather
interesting - an article on Powroll's 541 stroker kit for the Yamaha
TT500 single.  The TT500 used a built-up crank, so Powroll merely bored
the crankpin holes further out, sleeved them back to the right diameter,
and pressed it back together.  Since this popped the piston out the top,
they were faced with either a custom high-pin piston or a custom short
rod.  Since torque was the word, they went to a shorter rod.

 They shortened the stock rod.

 There is a photo of a shortened rod, with discoloration and a visibly
thickened area at the center of the beam.  The process evidently
involved putting the rod on a fixture, heating it until it got soft, and
(probably) using something like a portable hydraulic ram to shorten the
rod.  The article mentioned no laboratory testing had been done, but
Powroll had sold several thousand rods over a two year period with no
reported failures.

 Nowadays we'd see about mixing and matching rods out of something else,
perhaps narrowing or bushing one end or the other if required, but the
Powroll method is quite interesting.  Maybe someday I'll have to use it
for something.
                                     
[They were doing that trick in the early 70s.  We used to use their 125 cc
bore/stroker kit for the Honda 70 minibike.  I always marveled that they
could just inductively heat the rod and squish it up and have it work.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 01:07:47 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

On Feb 11, 17:20, The Hotrod List wrote:
> Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
>
> -> [Yep, though I'm still most fond of diving for goodies in the
> -> junkyard. The kind of junkyard where the guy says "Eh?  I probably
> -> have it.  GM on that hill, ford on this hill and mopar over on that
> -> one.  Get what you want."
>
>  I remember junkyards like that, long ago.  Around here they're all
> "auto recyclers" now, and wear white uniforms.  You go up to the
> counter, tell them what you want, and they see if they have it, then
> call the dealer for a price, knock off 25% from retail, and it's yours,
> if you're willing to pay 75% of list for whatever it was you wanted.
> Usually I'm not.
>

Any good yards around Colorado?  Here in Colorodo Springs, every
dealer has the _exact_ same price on the same parts.  Hmmmmm.  Maybe
this is from the standard percentage calculation.  Sure feels like
collusion, though.

-Bob


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:rmwise | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-----------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-592-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 06:47:25 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>The triptane thread is very interesting.  This jives with a conversation I
>had with a chemist affiliated with BP.  I asked him what was in the 
>Formula 1 "wundergas".  He didn't know for sure but he suspected it to be
>a mix of a heavy aromatic to get the heating value up, triptane and lots
>of TEL to get the octane and flame propagation enhancers (proprietary 
>compounds) to make the stuff burn fast enough to let the engines turn
>the RPM they do.  He said he was positive, based on the smell, that a lot
>of triptane was involved.  Now to find a source......  JGD]
>----------

Re: triptane sources, some trivia
prewar price--$30.00/gallon
supplied by Dow Chemical, using a synthesis method evolved by the Ethyl
Corp. and reqiuring 2 lbs of magnesium for each gallon of triptane

GMs plant used a different process, not requiring magnesium

NACAs triptane evaluation papers are probably still available through
the usual sources.

triptane is a paraffin
two objections to triptane: relatively high freezing point, curable by
blending with about 15% isopentane, such blending being necessary in any 
case to obtain the volatility required...other objection being the cost,
circa '45, "several dollars" a gallon, together with equally large
manpower requirements, and, the "entire US production of chlorine"

The Allies consumed 19 Billion US gallons of 100/130 avgas in war2

trivia question for today: how much water can a IC gas engine ingest
before in ceases to run?

[Lots.  To the point the exhaust looks like a steam locomotive, as 
several unfortunate 'Vette and Porch drivers have gotten to see 
while following my Z :-)  With too much water, the engine starts feeling
soggy :-) before it actually stops running.  JGD]

JD

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 06:53:55 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


>[Now THAT brings back another old memory.  (Oh gawd, another one)  Back when
>I was running heavy equipment for the gummit, my most frequent "hotrod" was
>a Cat 6 wheel pan (earthmover).  The huge diesel engine used a small gasoline
>"pony motor" to crank it.  Problem was, we got these things surplus off
>the express barge from Viet Nam and all of 'em had had the carbs on the 
>pony motors robbed (among other things.)  Der high command determined 
>that carbs on pony motors were frivilous, non-essential accessories (as 
>opposed to, say, air conditioned foreman's shacks) so we had to make do
>with what we had.  The drill was to have an oiler stand next to the pony
>motor like an old west cowboy with a can of ether in each hand.  Fire
>the pony motor on ether and then try to meter the spray so the motor ran
>enough to crank the diesel.  Of course, every time the oiler let it get
>a bit lean, it would backfire and set the overspray on fire.  All the pans
>looked like they'd taken RPGs in the side.  Huge black sploches :-)
>Ahh, the good old days....  And yes, we DID dragrace these things.
>Trick was dinking with the injection unit to bypass the govenor. JGD]


ell, that reminds ME (doddering old fart mode: engage) about how I
found about the effects of ether on diesels. Got sucked into painting
a cement truck in a buddies paint shop. Next morning something else
neede paint, but of course the mixer truck woulbdnt start. Popped the
hood on the old Dodge tandem, stared at the 225 horse Claterpillar for
a while, then took the pre-cleaner top off and sprayed in the ether

Lotsa either, cause it was a long way from the pre-cleaner to the
engine. Cranked the key and that sucker lit on the first rotation
of the crank. It pinned the tach at 4000 revs, for a LOONNGGGG time,
hammering like hell. Sounded sorta like a healthy smallblock chevy for
a while ;-) Didnt pop, though. Was expecting to see the 14 inch clutch
appearing in the cab, as it headed for the moon. 

JD

[Should I?  Nah.  I won't go into when I used to run the gummit's locomotive
and how one could rock the thing up on one rail with a leeetle bit too much
ether.  :-)  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 06:58:58 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

> I remember junkyards like that, long ago.  Around here they're all
>"auto recyclers" now, and wear white uniforms.  You go up to the
>counter, tell them what you want, and they see if they have it, then
>call the dealer for a price, knock off 25% from retail, and it's yours,
>if you're willing to pay 75% of list for whatever it was you wanted.
>Usually I'm not.

> They'd have a fit if you even suggested going back into their
>privacy-fenced, employee-only "dismantler storage areas", particularly
>without escort.

> Of course, even if you *DID* want the part, it's usually pretty hard to
>make yourself heard.  They're all on this local intercom system,
>jabbering and swapping parts.  "Monte Carlo front cap, front cap,
>what'cha gimme for a front cap?  Lookin' for a blue '91 Toyota door,
>Toyota door..."  and then there's a national echo system of some sort
>running too, also at earsplitting volume.

You DID have to mention these places, didnt you :-) Gotta admit, though,
that you can have some fun poking in there core piles.
> Pfaugh.

>[Yep, that seems to be what we have here in Atlanta.  The best place in the 
>Southeast for junkyards IMNO is Cleveland, TN.  Known as the odometer
>rollback capital of the world, there are something like 300 licensed 
>used car dealers in this town of 20,000.  Yep, this is the place you saw
>on "60 minutes".  There must be at least 20 HUGE junkyards around that town.  
>JGD]
>----------
My favorite junkyard in the whole world is at an old Indian reserve called
Skookumchuck. This place is a full 4X4 gastank into the bush north of here.
Like to stop off, get the siphon hose going, move the coleman stove a long
way off from the refuelling, brew up a coffee, then stroll around, enjoying
the ambience of the place. Its remote and hidden, so nothing gets ripped
off. Lotsa cars from '40s, 50s etc, side by side. Come back 5 years later,
and all your old friends are still there. Timeless.

JD

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 13:30:05 1993
Subject: Re: Electronic Ignition
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dave Williams on The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
: 
: -> because it must be heat sunk.  On the other hand, there is a HEI
: -> module combination used on some 84-87 GM trucks that listen to a
: -> knock sensor and implement knock control.
: 
:  The module is $98.13 at my local Chevy dealer.  I haven't tried a parts
: store though.

My Chevy dealer wants about $60.  I have to get one for my Blazer soon.  I
will be checking the parts stores first before going to the dealer.

If anyone is interested in reverse engineering the old piece, I could
donate it as a PE project guinee pig.  I wouldn't mind having this setup
on the Camaro project.   Just a thought.

[If no one else sticks their hands up, send it to me and I'll farm it out
around here.  Could you also get some GM part numbers and post them?
I'd like to be able to reference numbers instead of just describing
the box and module.  Thanks  JGD]

DER

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Don Robinson    (602) 752-6466     Internet:  vlsiphx!donr@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
   ** Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, **
   ** my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.   **

----------
Posted by: emory!marble.UUCP!donr (Don Robinson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 13:34:35 1993
Subject: Re: stroker cranks
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> 
>  I just got another call from a guy who wanted to know what crank some
> of the Brit engine builders are using to get 2.9 liters out of a 2.0
> Pinto motor.  I told him I didn't know.  
> 
>  Anyway, has anyone come across anything on this?
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

Last fall at Macungie, I met a rodder with a neat Pinto powered '26 T Coupe.
He claimed 400+ horsepower. He smiled and I smiled, so I really I don't know
what it put out.

But he did say that it was built by Esslinger Engineering, possibly for use
in homebuilt aircraft.  It did have a special head as I recall.

There is an Esslinger company in Mendota Heights, MN (800)392-0334, but I
don't know if it's the same company. (It's too early call right now)   

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 13:40:12 1993
Subject: Re: Edelbrock / Weber FI System
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

As a matter of fact, it was me. Mike Brattland

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 13:45:22 1993
Subject: Junkyards!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Every spring my car club buddies and I go on a Pennsylvania junkyard tour.

We still have lots of old fashioned yards. The kind where the owner says,
"Sure, go in and have a good time. Just remember to put the hood down when
your done."

I can think of several where the yard is at least a square mile in size, 
some spread over a mountain side.  A few with cars dating from the twenties.
Some of the best are the smaller ones, though, maybe specializing in one or
two makes, or a period, say the fifties.

One has a row of sedan deliveries from the fifties including Olds and Pontiac.

Another has a couple of fourdoor hardtop station wagons. (Remember who 
made them?)

One has woodies next to a couple of '47 Lincolns.

And one where the owner and his sons met us with loaded shotguns and dogs...
But then told us to have fun when he found out we weren't from the government!  

It's snowing right now, but spring is coming...

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 13:49:49 1993
Subject: Tri-Y's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I've asked this question before and recently asked the classic mustang list,
but I didn't many responses.  Its time to get off my butt and get my engine
together, so I need to get some headers.   There is a place that sells Tri-Y's
for about $110.  They say that they are made mainly for 65-68 stangs.  The guy
said that I could probably massage them in to my 70 Fastback (351 Windsor).  I
don't know how I like the idea of paying $110 and then having to bend these
things to get them in.  Another place can get me some Headman headers for $83.
So, should I go for the Tri-Y's or save some cash and go with the others?  
Are the Tri-Y's worth the extra cost?  Any info or ideas would be greatly
appreciated.  Thanks.
Tom McClendon
gt7038d@prism.gatech.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!prism.gatech.edu!gt7038d (MCCLENDON,WILLIAM THOMAS)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 14:01:31 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


> 
> -> Lets class it this way.  Street and open class.
> 
>  Interesting idea.
> 
> 
> -> Street class must meet all polution laws that are US feds put on us.
> 
>  No help there.  Several states have regulations much more stringent
> than the Federal ones.  Since the builders would presumably shoot for
> the lowest standard, you'd wind up with unstreetable machines again.
> Also, it kinda locks out any Canadians who'd want to compete.

Not really.  I believe California is the only state with tougher emissions
laws than the Feds put out.  It is a matter that not all states enforce 
these laws equally.
> 
> 
> -> Both must run on pump gasoline of XXX octane
> 
>  Why limit to gasoline?  If someone wants to run propane, CNG, or corn
> squeezin's, it's fine with me.

How about Nitro in the street class agains a propane car?  Not to fair 
in my mind.
> 
> 
> -> Sub classes are to by cubic inch to lbs ration and further divided by
> ->      carborated, injected, and blown or nitros.  This would avoid
> 
>  I dunno.  There are already enough variables.  If, after a certain
> number of events, it became apparent a certain type of car was able to
> consistently win (such as the Honda CRX's reign of terror in SCCA
> autocross) then Something Should Be Done.  Otherwise, it seems like a
> lot of hassle for not much.  Back long, long ago drag races were run by
> eliminations, and at the end of the day, one lone car took the prize.

Yes and you had handicaps created mainly by the 700 plus classes.
Pure stock /single carborated /automatic transmission/15 lbs per cubic inch.
Altered/blown/manual transmission/7 lbs per cubic inch
etc.
 
> Now it's all brackets, and you can lose every damned run and still win.
> Madness.  I'd like to see things as simple as they could be made.  God
> alone knows the existing racing organizations don't think they've
> accomplished anything until you have to have a priest interpret the
> rulebook.

Okay then it would fair to evenly match a 1965 Chaporel with 427 cubic
inches twin overhead cams, and a supercharger weighing under 2,000 lbs.
Against a 4 cylinder carborated 1992 sedan weighing 3,000 lbs.  And not 
have any handi caps.
> 
> 
> -> Once the first even is entered no modifications to the vehicle would
> -> be allowed.
> 
>  I agree 100%.  Otherwise people like me would be swapping entire
> powertrains between events.  
>                                                                                                         
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>  
> 
> 
> 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 16:52:25 1993
Subject: RFI: Elec Fuel Pumps & Pressure
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Looking for a listing of high pressure/volume electric fuel pumps. I'd like to
replace the one in my GN. Its max pressure is 75 psi max. The free flow rate is
30 gal/hr. I'm mainly interested in "in-tank" applications. I've heard that
Buick Park Avenue Ultra and some PFI S-10's came with higher flow pumps.

Thanks for any info,

Ron
mellum@skyler.mavd.honeywell.com

[This isn't an in-the-tank pump but the old Datsun/Bosch for the Z car
pump delivers 40 gal/hr at up to 120 psi.  It is a positive displacement
roller pump so the delivery does not vary much if any with pressure.
It is also a very efficient pump, drawing only about 2 amps at 40 psi.
I can usually get one for $30 or less from a junkyard.  

A couple of thoughts.  Instead of a much larger pump, consider two pumps,
with one actuated by a boost pressure switch.  A very high volume pump
may very well overwhelm the regulator.  Even if it doesn't, the regulator gain
(slope of pressure vs flow) is not that high so pressure will rise at low
injector flow.  Either condition results in high pressure at idle which
will mess up the idle mix and maybe economy.  Switching the second pump in
as it is needed works much better.

Be careful of the power draw from other pumps.  Some I've looked at 
draw very high current.  The Holly is one of the worst.  The high current
pumps heat the gas but worse, it could burn out the ecm or relay.  
Some ECMs regulate pump speed by varying the applied voltage.  Don't know
if the GN is one of these but if it is, a power hog may smoke the 
internal transistor.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: "Mellum Ron" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 16:57:42 1993
Subject: '38 flathead
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I have some valve covers and an intake manifold for a '37 or 8 Ford flathead.
They have been sitting in a shed on a Louisiana farm for only God know how
long.  They're covered with rust.  Are they good for anything other than
sentiment??

----------
Posted by: emory!jane.uh.edu!st207 (Freeman, Corbett L.)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 17:03:41 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I've been eavesdropping...
There are plenty of organizations/classes for single purpose racers.
It seems to me that the beauty of the idea being discussed is that
you've got to build a car than can do _everything_ very well, not just
go straight fast XOR handle, ...

Perhaps taking that idea a bit further can resolve some of the
controversies   :+   [this is a smiley with tongue in cheek]

In that context:

    Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 13:50 EST
    From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)

    > -> Lets class it this way.  Street and open class.
    >  Interesting idea.

Why bother.

    > -> Street class must meet all polution laws that are US feds put on us.
    >  No help there.  Several states have regulations much more stringent...
    > Also, it kinda locks out any Canadians who'd want to compete.
    Not really.  I believe California is the only state with tougher emissions

Try this: Use a more liberal definition of street car, but
include emissions & fuel economy as part of the scoring. 
[but see caveat below about scoring]

    > -> Both must run on pump gasoline of XXX octane
    >  Why limit to gasoline?  If someone wants to run propane, CNG, or corn
    > squeezin's, it's fine with me.
    How about Nitro in the street class agains a propane car?  Not to fair 
    in my mind.

How about it?  If it cant perform it dont belong here!
Otherwise, a propane car may be helped by emission & economy scoring.

Perhaps the addition of some sort of endurance phase would help, too.

    > -> Sub classes are to by cubic inch to lbs ration and further divided by
    > ->      carborated, injected, and blown or nitros.  This would avoid
    > 
    >  I dunno.  There are already enough variables.  If, after a certain
    > number of events, it became apparent a certain type of car was able to ...

    Yes and you had handicaps created mainly by the 700 plus classes.
    Pure stock /single carborated /automatic transmission/15 lbs per cubic inch.
    Altered/blown/manual transmission/7 lbs per cubic inch
    etc.

Why have classes? That seems to violate the `do all things well' spirit.
A top-fuel dragster just aint gonna do so well on the slolom anyway.
Not to mention the emissions scoring :>

    Okay then it would fair to evenly match a 1965 Chaporel with 427 cubic
    inches twin overhead cams, and a supercharger weighing under 2,000 lbs.
    Against a 4 cylinder carborated 1992 sedan weighing 3,000 lbs.  And not 
    have any handi caps.

Hmm, How'd this car get in here? A 3000lb, 1992 4cylinder sedan is only
going to do 1G in the Vertical phase of the competition.  -- remember,
the 1G mark is where we started on this.

A '65 Chaporall, hmmm.  Or an F40, street legal and all. Some rich guy
just drives in and takes the show. 

Ok, if you want to have classes, they should be based on cost... too bad
you'd never get an honest answer. 
That's really where half of the classes and restrictions in standard
racing comes from anyway.

    > -> Once the first even is entered no modifications to the vehicle would
    > -> be allowed.

That, in any case!

    > Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
    ----------
    Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 

I'll be the first to admit that this is a can'o worms.  Trying to come
up with a scoring scheme which would weigh the various aspects of
performance against economy, emissions, endurance, and other
hair-brained qualities would be a political morass.
Still, I like the idea.

Too bad I'll be gone next week and cant take the flames directly.  Maybe
my mailbox will have cooled off by then! :>

Have fun.

  bruce
  miller@cam.nist.gov
  

----------
Posted by: Bruce R. Miller 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 18:29:28 1993
Subject: Need Piston suggestions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I'm in the process of modifying my A-code '66 289 in my '66 Mustang GT. 
I am putting on '78 302 heads, which I have ported, polished, and opened
up for larger valves.  

My concern is how low my compression will be with these heads since they
are open chamber, and the original heads are closed chamber.  I believe
these heads have a 63cc chamber, but I am not positive (I can't measure
them while I am at school and they are not).  The pistons I currently have
are dished.  I want to achieve a compression ratio of 9.5:1 to 10.0:1. 
Can anyone suggest a name and part number, or a place that can help for a
piston that will achive this c/r.  I'm looking for either good cast, or
forged pistons. 

Also can anyone tell me how durable the lower end on these 289's are. 
This is not a Hi-Po block, it has two bolt mains.  Will it have any problems
with running 6500 rpm? 

Chip Schweiss
cschweis@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu



----------
Posted by: Chip Schweis 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 20:34:11 1993
Subject: Re: Red Ram Hemi
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In article  you write:
>hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>
>>I thought that the Polyspheric engine was Plymouth only. I always wanted to
>>say I had a HEMI under the hood.
>The correct answer here is--sort of. Some blocks were used with hemi heads,
>some with poly heads, some with both. Even the 354 came with poly heads,
>in some car lines. Called a spitfire, I believe.
>
>>Somehow a POLY just doesn't cut it.  Sounds like a green bird on a tread
>>wheel that gets 25 miles per cracker!
>
>Careful here, old buddy, after all, where do you think GM got the idea for
>the 396/427 from?
>
>JD
>expecting to be roasted for that last comment ;-)
>


We ran a 354 w/Hemi heads in my dad's Top Gas Dragster about a year
ago.  Using a 14-71 supercharger we were able to get the car into
the high 7's, I think that 7.78 sec was the best pass. The car
might have gone faster had it not kept blowing head gaskets.  The 
stud locations on the early hemi's (354, 392) is not very good for
high performance applications.  We used a girdle on the bottom end
for crankshaft support.


			Chris Demke


Chris.Demke@west.sun.com


----------
Posted by: emory!sundude.JPL.NASA.GOV!chris (Chris Demke)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 20:39:08 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent leaning out?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


emory!convex.com!mschlott (Mike Schlottman) writes:
"                                                 Is there some way I can
"measure the fuel mixture?  Maybe some sort of sensor in the exhaust?

yeah -- an oxygen sensor, just like every new car has.

"p.s.  If anyone would care to make me an offer on this blower the right 
"      dollar amount might talk me out of it.  I have been told that it
"      may be worth some real money.

lathams are quite rare, and it should be valuable on that account.
dunno if the compressor is more efficient; that would raise its value,
too.
-- 
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Andrew Hay	|	one step beyond the outer limits of the twilight       |
a_d_hay@att.com	|	zone in the darkened room at the night gallery	       |
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnews.cb.att.com!adh (andrew.d.hay)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 12 20:44:57 1993
Subject: Re: '38 flathead
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> 
> I have some valve covers and an intake manifold for a '37 or 8 Ford flathead.
              ^^^^^^^^^^^^                                            ^^^^^^^^
	      ????????????                                            ????????
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!jane.uh.edu!st207 (Freeman, Corbett L.)
>  
> 
> 
> 

----------
Posted by: James Anderson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 13 07:39:17 1993
Subject: Re: More Octane Stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>
Jim Davies posted (along with other extremely interesting stuff):

Regarding octane ratings of TRIPTANE:

In 1941, an army test found triptane, without TEL to have a PN of 100/165,
in other words, equal to isooctane (lean) and much better rich. The view
was that it was "the best hydrocarbon for an aviation fuel that had been
seen to that date", and isooctane + 1 cc TEL has a PN of 125.
>

Earlier, someone (JGD, I think) posted octane ratings for toluene and
xylene, and make the point that the smaller the difference between MON and
RON the lower the sensitivity to changes in operating conditions.  Is there
any simple correlation between MON/RON and the lean/rich PN's?  Also,
xylene was about 120 octane without any TEL, so wouldn't it take less TEL
to make 100/130 (say) aviation fuel from xylene (or a mixed aromatic  base
stock) than from isooctane and other aliphatic hydrocarbons?  Also,
wouldn't this be a better starting point for the /150 fuel, or does a given
amount of TEL not raise the octane (or PN) of xylene as much as it does
isooctane?

[I don't think there is any relationship between the ratings.  The octane
scale is nominally based on n-heptane having a value of 0 and iso-octane
having a value of 100 under a given set of conditions.  Problem is, these
conditions are entirely arbitrary.  The effect of TEL is not constant.
It has less effect on high quality base stock.  There are a series of
charts on pages 95-98 of the fuels handbook on the effects of TEL.
All the curves are leveling off at about 0.8 gm/L.  From the chart,
a naptha base has an octane rating of about 72 without TEL.  One gm/L
boosts the rating to about 87 or 15 points.  A catalytic reformate base
has a rating of about 97 without TEL and only 103 with it, or only 
6 points increase.  These are all RONs.  JGD]

On another subject, about 6 years ago Pop Hot Rodding tested octane
boosters and recommended SoCal octane booster.  This was an 8 oz bottle 
which would treat 60 gallons of gas (or 30, if you doubled the
concentration for even more octane), raising the octane about 2 points.  I
recall them starting with 92 octane and getting 94 or 95, adding the double
dose.  We analyzed some for fun, and it turned out to be red dye, an
aromatic solvent mixture, and a white waxy solid (whose name is in my notes
at home, not here at the lab, but was a bicyclic, branched hydrocarbon). 
Did anyone ever use this stuff, what were your impressions, and why don't I
see it advertised anymore?  Would a small amount of paraffin, either this
stuff or triptane, in fuel, be a problem clogging fuel injectors?

Thanks for all the info; the discussions here are great.
Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 13 07:43:53 1993
Subject: Re: stroker cranks
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> There is an Esslinger company in Mendota Heights, MN (800)392-0334,
-> but I don't know if it's the same company. (It's too early call right
-> now)

 The Pinto Esslinger people are in South El Monte CA.  I haven't called
because I've had them give me the runaround on stuff before, like their
camshafts.  I haven't looked at their recent listings, but they used to
sell cams as "torque", "midrange" and "top end", and they weaseled
around when I tried to get some numbers out of 'em.  Scroom.
                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 13 07:48:36 1993
Subject: Need Piston suggestions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> My concern is how low my compression will be with these heads since
-> they are open chamber, and the original heads are closed chamber.

 '66 289 std. 2V head:  63.5cc nominal
 '78 302 (all):         69.0cc nominal

 I've never seen a 289 with dished pistons.  TRW and Speed-Pro don't
make replacements either.

 TRW shows their flat top piston in a 302 as 8.35:1 CR with the 69cc
chamber.  Your 289 will be less than that, though I don't remember the
formula to calculate all this offhand.  TRW sells their part number
L2249NF domed piston which is rated at 10.57:1 in the 63.5cc 289
chamber, so it'd be less than that in a 69cc chamber, somewhere between
9.5 and 10.


-> Also can anyone tell me how durable the lower end on these 289's are.
-> This is not a Hi-Po block, it has two bolt mains.  Will it have any
-> problems with running 6500 rpm?

 All 289 blocks and all 302s except the '69-'70 BOSS are two bolt main.
6500 was the factory red line for many models.  The only thing you need
to do is use a good premium rod bolt when you assemble the bottom end,
and be *very* careful running the nuts down - you can accidentally
overtorque the 5/16 bolts with a 6" 3/8 ratchet.  Lower end troubles
with the small Ford are rare.
                                                                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 13 07:53:25 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>trivia question for today: how much water can a IC gas engine ingest
>before in ceases to run?

>[Lots.  To the point the exhaust looks like a steam locomotive, as 
>several unfortunate 'Vette and Porch drivers have gotten to see 
>while following my Z :-)  With too much water, the engine starts feeling
>soggy :-) before it actually stops running.  JGD]

Well, heck, thats close enough ;-) The answer, according to Pratt&Wwhitney,
is that an engine will take two gallons of water for every gallon of fuel,
before firing ceases. BTW, apperantle H20/wood alky is USUALLY better
than H20/grain alky for injection, although *certain chemicals* are
considerably better than either alchohol. *sigh* another sleuthing job!
Although nitrous was used by all combatants in war2, before becoming
obsolete  in '44, the allies preferred either/or high octane fuel or
water injection.
JD

[2:1 sounds about right.  I've never sat down and figured what the ratio
works out to on my Z motor.  I do know the 2.5 gal tank seems to last
only minutes.  I use 50-50 methanol and water most of the time.  I've
actually not seen that much, if any difference between pure water and 
the mix but the mix doesn't freeze.  

Another very effective knock control scheme is to inject pure toluene
or xylene through aux injectors when needed.  Pure toluene or xylene 
sucks as a carburated fuel because it has a high, single vapor pressure.  
Not terrible but still not real hot with PFI.  When combined with premium
gasoline, it works great.

I've not yet tried a combination of water and toluene.  Could be  interesting.
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 13 14:31:36 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien) writes:
"Seems like I must have flipped a bit in the tens digit - 1650ci is 27 liters.
"The story in AutoWeek was about a wealthy German industrialist who commissioned
"a "special" from Rolls Royce when his old Rolls was a bit "too slow" -
"a fiberglass bodied, Merlin-engined monster that he claim was too fast for the
"photo-radar to identify. The Rolls Royce company indicated that performance
"of this special was "adequate".

and to further confuse the issue, here's another data point:  the
merlin was one of a family of engines.  there was a larger member, the
37L griffin, and at least one smaller member, the kestrel.  it may have
been about 17L.  i believe it was used in tanks.
-- 
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Andrew Hay	|	one step beyond the outer limits of the twilight       |
a_d_hay@att.com	|	zone in the darkened room at the night gallery	       |
		+--------------------------------------------------------------+

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnews.cb.att.com!adh (andrew.d.hay)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 13 14:38:13 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>ell, that reminds ME (doddering old fart mode: engage) about how I
>found about the effects of ether on diesels. Got sucked into painting
>a cement truck in a buddies paint shop. Next morning something else
>neede paint, but of course the mixer truck woulbdnt start. Popped the
>hood on the old Dodge tandem, stared at the 225 horse Claterpillar for
>a while, then took the pre-cleaner top off and sprayed in the ether

>Lotsa either, cause it was a long way from the pre-cleaner to the
>engine. Cranked the key and that sucker lit on the first rotation
>of the crank. It pinned the tach at 4000 revs, for a LOONNGGGG time,
>hammering like hell. Sounded sorta like a healthy smallblock chevy for
>a while ;-) Didnt pop, though. Was expecting to see the 14 inch clutch
>appearing in the cab, as it headed for the moon. 

>JD

>[Should I?  Nah.  I won't go into when I used to run the gummit's locomotive
>and how one could rock the thing up on one rail with a leeetle bit too much
>ether.  :-)  JGD]

Thank you for ending this, before I was forced to tell the story about
barrel-rolling a Whiting TrackMobile. You know its time to change jobs
when your life sounds like a bullshit story heard in a bar ;-)
JD

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 13 14:42:57 1993
Subject: Re: Junkyards!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>I can think of several where the yard is at least a square mile in size, 
>some spread over a mountain side.  A few with cars dating from the twenties.
>Some of the best are the smaller ones, though, maybe specializing in one or
>two makes, or a period, say the fifties.

>One has a row of sedan deliveries from the fifties including Olds and Pontiac.

>Another has a couple of fourdoor hardtop station wagons. (Remember who 
>made them?)

>One has woodies next to a couple of '47 Lincolns.

>And one where the owner and his sons met us with loaded shotguns and dogs...
>But then told us to have fun when he found out we weren't from the government!  
I HOPE you shook this mans hand, brother ;-)

JD





----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 13 19:27:03 1993
Subject: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


I'm sorry if this subject has been beaten to death already, but I've
not had time to read this list much lately. :-(

I've gotten into this discussion many times already, and have heard
many different opinions about which is the fastest American production
car (as available from the factory, of course...not including any
aftermarket gadgets).

I guess this could be broken down into several different categories,
like fastest 1/4 mile times, top speed, fastest car built before
1975, fastest car built after 75 (nothing built during 1975 was fast,
right? :-)

My guess for the post 75 era would be the Viper.  For the pre-75, I
would guess something powered by a 426 hemi?

pc

-- 
      -m---------    Patrick Connor           Pyramid Technology   
    ---mmm-------    (408) 428-8819           3860 North 1st St.
  -----mmmmm-----    pc@pyramid.com -or-      San Jose, CA           
-------mmmmmmm---    uunet!pyramid!pc         95134              

----------
Posted by: emory!pyramid.com!pc
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 14 02:44:18 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


>     > -> Both must run on pump gasoline of XXX octane
>     >  Why limit to gasoline?  If someone wants to run propane, CNG, or corn
>     > squeezin's, it's fine with me.
>     How about Nitro in the street class agains a propane car?  Not to fair
>     in my mind.
>

I believe that two propane powered 300ZX twin-turbo cars won their class
at the Pikes Peak Hillclimb this year.  No Nitro cars competed.

I would hope that this "triple-crown" stuff would use a road course
instead of (or along with) the 1/4 mile as a performance measure.

Of course, this takes a good driver to get a good score...

-Bob

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:rmwise | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-----------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-592-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 14 02:48:37 1993
Subject: parts for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 Posted for a friend:

for '65 or newer Pontiac V8  (400 or 455)

     *  Offenhauser 360 2x4 intake manifold, polished
        two Holley 600 CFM vacuum secondary
        chrome air cleaners
        linkage

     *  Mallory dual point, with new points and cap

 All parts in excellent condition.

 For sale, but would prefer to trade for 2x4 setup for small block
Chevy or ???

 He was running this system on a 455 Firebird.  It has pretty good low
end torque for a 2x4.

 John Tollison
 127 Georgia Ave.
 Jacksonville AR 72099
 (501)988-1588 days
                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 14 18:53:26 1993
Subject: Re: More Octane Stuff
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In alt.hotrod you write:

>>
>Jim Davies posted (along with other extremely interesting stuff):

>Regarding octane ratings of TRIPTANE:

>In 1941, an army test found triptane, without TEL to have a PN of 100/165,
>in other words, equal to isooctane (lean) and much better rich. The view
>was that it was "the best hydrocarbon for an aviation fuel that had been
>seen to that date", and isooctane + 1 cc TEL has a PN of 125.
>>

>Earlier, someone (JGD, I think) posted octane ratings for toluene and
>xylene, and make the point that the smaller the difference between MON and
>RON the lower the sensitivity to changes in operating conditions.  Is there
>any simple correlation between MON/RON and the lean/rich PN's?

See original post, if you havent got it, ask and Ill repost :-)
)
  Also,
>xylene was about 120 octane without any TEL, so wouldn't it take less TEL
>to make 100/130 (say) aviation fuel from xylene (or a mixed aromatic  base
>stock) than from isooctane and other aliphatic hydrocarbons?  Also,
>wouldn't this be a better starting point for the /150 fuel, or does a given
>amount of TEL not raise the octane (or PN) of xylene as much as it does
>isooctane?

>[I don't think there is any relationship between the ratings.  The octane

John, have another look at my post about the development of the PN number
system, I think there is a direct relationship, but the definitive answer
may be in the ASTM F4 method description, if it was available. Anyone??

>scale is nominally based on n-heptane having a value of 0 and iso-octane
>having a value of 100 under a given set of conditions.  Problem is, these
>conditions are entirely arbitrary.  The effect of TEL is not constant.
>It has less effect on high quality base stock.

This does not appear to be a constant, though. Some constituents seem to be very sensitive to TEL--remember 100 PN gas plus 1cc TEL/gallon gives 125 octane.
Triptane plus 4cc TEL/gal gives 270 PN.

  There are a series of
>charts on pages 95-98 of the fuels handbook on the effects of TEL.
>All the curves are leveling off at about 0.8 gm/L.  From the chart,
>a naptha base has an octane rating of about 72 without TEL.  One gm/L
>boosts the rating to about 87 or 15 points.  A catalytic reformate base
>has a rating of about 97 without TEL and only 103 with it, or only 
>6 points increase.  These are all RONs.  JGD]

>On another subject, about 6 years ago Pop Hot Rodding tested octane
>boosters and recommended SoCal octane booster.  This was an 8 oz bottle 
>which would treat 60 gallons of gas (or 30, if you doubled the
>concentration for even more octane), raising the octane about 2 points.  I
>recall them starting with 92 octane and getting 94 or 95, adding the double
>dose.  We analyzed some for fun, and it turned out to be red dye, an
>aromatic solvent mixture, and a white waxy solid (whose name is in my notes
>at home, not here at the lab, but was a bicyclic, branched hydrocarbon). 
>Did anyone ever use this stuff, what were your impressions, and why don't I
>see it advertised anymore?  Would a small amount of paraffin, either this
>stuff or triptane, in fuel, be a problem clogging fuel injectors?

>Thanks for all the info; the discussions here are great.


Jim Davies


----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 14 19:03:15 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien) writes:
>"Seems like I must have flipped a bit in the tens digit - 1650ci is 27 liters.
>"The story in AutoWeek was about a wealthy German industrialist who commissioned
>"a "special" from Rolls Royce when his old Rolls was a bit "too slow" -
>"a fiberglass bodied, Merlin-engined monster that he claim was too fast for the
>"photo-radar to identify. The Rolls Royce company indicated that performance
>"of this special was "adequate".

>and to further confuse the issue, here's another data point:  the
>merlin was one of a family of engines.  there was a larger member, the
>37L griffin, and at least one smaller member, the kestrel.  it may have
>been about 17L.  i believe it was used in tanks.

Well, since you brought it up ... the Kestrel was first, had o one piece
block, and was too small, so was replaced by the merlin, which reverted to
a crankcase/blocks setup, aluminum, of course. The griffon was developed
during the war, although it was the same displacement as the Buzzard, 
which predated all of these other engines. All were aluminum V12s with
double cross-bolted mains, marine type rods, forged everything, shaft
drive OHC, 4 valves/cyl. Reading RRs development story about valves
is a rather interesting trip through steel metalurgical development,
with the sodium cooled valve being the final solution. The tank engine,
BTW, was called the meteor, and was a derated merlin, which put out
5-800 hp depending on vintage, etc. RR wound up more or less redesigning
all brit tank powertrains on the fly during the war as their tanks
were a classic example of british chunderheadedness. The merlin, of 
course, was built under licence by packard during the war. The original
deal was for ford to do it. but henry was getting pretty far out
of it by then and finally refused to do it.  The real interesting A/C
engines of war2 were the piston engines under development to replace
all the prewar stuff that was used. Sadly, the gas turbine ended interest
in them even though some were all ready to go. Short strokes, high revs
and lots of power. Then there was the RR Crecy- a V12, two stroke, sleeve
valve, stratified charge, direct injection drop in replacement for the 
merlin. Ricardo was pulling 360 HP out of a one cylinder development
engine on gas. 

JD







----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 14 19:08:57 1993
Subject: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> I've gotten into this discussion many times already, and have heard
-> many different opinions about which is the fastest American
-> production car (as available from the factory, of course...not
-> including any aftermarket gadgets).

 Well, first you'd have to define "production car."  The FIA thought the
Ford GT40 was a production car.  I'd put it down on the list for
the go-fast crown since the 427s could pull over 200mph with appropriate
gearing.  The Daytona Coupe Cobras would flat get with it too.
                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 14 19:21:15 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> I would hope that this "triple-crown" stuff would use a road course
-> instead of (or along with) the 1/4 mile as a performance measure.

 As long as we're bench racing, there's no need to limit it to three
tests.  How about -

        1/4 mile ET - any drag strip

        top speed - flying mile perhaps - you can generally find three
                or four miles of straight road if you try hard enough,
                but using half of Nevada wouldn't be always be
                practical

        standardized autocross course (like the one Popular Science
                used to use - which would make results more repeatable
                from site to site) - for more fun, make it a head to
                head Pro Solo style elimination

        closed circuit or Solo I high speed handling test - there are
                dirt or asphalt ovals available practically everywhere,
                and you could mark off a bent course with cones.  Equipe
                Rapide used to rent a section of MidAmerica Park with a
                winding public road, which they shut down and raced on.

        emissions (extra points to cleaner cars) - stuff a sniffer
                up the exhaust and give some weighted point bonus for
                every ppm or % the car beats *current* Federal
                standards.  (since this is competition, we wouldn't
                care what (if any) standards the car originally met)

        economy (extra points to more frugal cars) - something similar
                to the old Mobil Economy Run


 Freebie points for emissions and economy would tend to balance the
all-out, well-it's-legal-in-Arkansas high roller machinery and the
for-real street driven machinery.
                                                                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 01:36:26 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>-> I've gotten into this discussion many times already, and have heard
>-> many different opinions about which is the fastest American
>-> production car (as available from the factory, of course...not
>-> including any aftermarket gadgets).
>
> Well, first you'd have to define "production car."  The FIA thought the
>Ford GT40 was a production car.  I'd put it down on the list for
>the go-fast crown since the 427s could pull over 200mph with appropriate
>gearing.  The Daytona Coupe Cobras would flat get with it too.

OK, my definition of production car is something that is street legal, has
license plates and all that, and most of all, something anyone could 
could purchase from a car dealer.   Does the GT40 meet all this?

If so, what was the top speed?  Who is second fastest? :-)

pc

-- 
      -m---------    Patrick Connor           Pyramid Technology   
    ---mmm-------    (408) 428-8819           3860 North 1st St.
  -----mmmmm-----    pc@pyramid.com -or-      San Jose, CA           
-------mmmmmmm---    uunet!pyramid!pc         95134              

----------
Posted by: emory!pyramid.com!pc
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 06:48:24 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


While fully aware of the possible effects of continuing this discussion,
I'll nonetheless dust off this gem from 4 years ago, posted to rec.autos,
back when a sane person might actually read it.  Remember, it is 4 years old
so no Mazda twin-turbo RX7, no Viper, no ZR-1, etc.

Wonder if this fellow is still around, collecting data?  Maybe a quick ping to
the address listed might be in order.

Hmmm, I didn't see my current autocross ride, a Triumph Spitfire, listed.
Must be a mistake.

mjb.
----

    From: sbrodsky@hawk.ulowell.edu (Scott Brodsky)
    Newsgroups: rec.autos
    Subject: Top 100 0-60 times (7sec and under)/ also WANTED:road tests
    Date: 15 Jan 89 23:33:45 GMT

  I've been wanting to post a list like this for quite a while, I have a
  data base file of over 500+ road tests.  The following is the top 100
  0-to-60 times of the cars:

  Coincidentally, the top 100 0-60 times are ALL the cars in my database
  that are in the 7 Second and Under Club (7SUC).

    MODEL                YEAR O_60 Q_MI TOP ENGINE              BHP_RPM
    -----                ---- ---- ---- --- ------              -------
    Porsche 959          1988  3.6 12.0 190 6flat turbo 4v dohc 444@6500
    Buick Regal GNX      1987  4.7 13.5 124 V6 turbo            300@4400
    Dodge Charger        1968  4.8 13.5     426 HEMI            425@5000
    Porsche 911 Carrera4 1989  4.8 13.3 161 flat 6 sohc         246@6100
    Buick Regal GN       1986  4.9 13.9 124 V6 turbo            245@4400
    Callaway Corvette    1986  5.0 13.7 178 V8       ohv twin   345@4000
    Porsche 911 Turbo    1986  5.0 13.4 153 6cyl    sohc turbo  282@5500
    Porsche 911 Turbo    1978  5.0 13.7 156 6fl sohc turbo      253@5500
    Ferrari GTO          1985  5.0 14.1 189 V8 dohc turbo       400@7000
    Ferrari Boxer        1982  5.1 13.5 168 12flat dohc         360@6200
    Lamborghini Countach 1986  5.2 13.7 173 V12  4v dohc        420@7000
    Shelby AC Cobra      1970  5.2 13.7 134 289cu               271@6000
    Porsche 928S4        1987  5.3 13.9 159 V8 4v dohc          316@6000
    Lotus Turbo Esprit   1988  5.3 14.1 148 4in 4v dohc turbo   215@6250
    Pont Turbo TA 20th   1989  5.3 13.9 150 ohv V6 2v turbo     250@4000
    Ferrari Testarossa   1986  5.3 13.4 181 12fl 4v dohc        380@5750
    RUF Porsche Turbo    1984  5.3 14.2 154 6fl sohc turbo      300@5500
    Chevy Chevelle SS454 1970  5.4 13.8 132 454                 450@5200
    Lamborghini Miura S  1970  5.5 13.9 168 dohc 2v V12         430@7350
    Porsche 944 Turbo S  1988  5.5 13.9 140 4in sohc turbo      247@6000
    DeTomaso Pantera GT5 1984  5.5 14.0 137 V8 ohv              350@6000
    Ferrari 512 BB       1978  5.5 14.2 188 12flat dohc         360@6200
    Porsche 928S4        1987  5.5 13.9 165 V8   4v dohc        316@6000
    Lotus Turbo Esprit   1986  5.6 14.3 152 4cyl 4v dohc  turbo 215@6250
    Plymouth Superbee    1969  5.6 14.0 129 383 cu              335@5200
    Chevy Corvette       1988  5.6 14.3 154 V8 ohv              245@4300
    Porsche 911 Cabrio   1986  5.7 14.3 130 6cyl    sohc        200@5900
    Porsche 911 Club spt 1988  5.7 14.3 149 6cyl    sohc        214@5900
    Lamborghini Countach 1982  5.7 14.1 150 V12 dohc            325@7500
    Ford Mustang Boss    1970  5.8 14.4   0 V8       ohv        290@5800
    Plymouth AAR Cuda    1970  5.8 14.3 128 340 Six-Pack        290@5000
    Chevy Corvette       1986  5.8 14.4 154 V8       ohv        230@4000
    Pontiac Firebird TA  1969  5.8 14.4   0 V8       ohv        335@5000
    Dodge Challenger RT  1970  5.8 14.1 146 426 HEMI            425@5000
    Lotus Turbo Esprit   1988  5.8 14.3 152 4cyl 4v dohc turbo  215@6240
    Chev Chevelle SS396  1969  5.8 14.4 116 396 cu              325@4800
    Porsche 928S         1985  5.9 14.2 143 V8 4v dohc          288@5750
    Lamborghini Countach 1978  5.9 14.6 164 V12 dohc            325@7500
    Plymouth Val Duster  1970  5.9 14.4 114 340                 275@5000
    Porsche 944 Turbo    1986  6.0 14.6 155 4cyl    sohc turbo  217@5800
    Chevy Corvette conv  1988  6.0 14.6 158 V8   2v ohv         245@4300
    Dodge Dart GTS       1969  6.0 14.4 114 340                 275@5000
    Dodge Charger Dayton 1969  6.0 13.9 140 426 HEMI            425@5000
    Ferrari 328 GTS      1986  6.0 14.5 149 V8   4v dohc        260@7000
    Ford Mustang LX 5.0  1987  6.0 14.6   0 V8       ohv        225@4000
    Chevy Corvette       1988  6.0 14.6 158 V8       ohv        245@4300
    Porsche 944 Turbo    1986  6.0 14.6 155 4cyl    sohc turbo  217@5800
    BMW M1               1980  6.2 14.5 156 6in dohc            235@6500
    Porsche 911 Carrera  1984  6.2 14.6 146 6fl sohc            200@5900
    Porsche 911SC        1978  6.3 15.3 126 6fl sohc            172@5500
    Pontiac FireForm 5.0 1987  6.3 14.9   0 V8       ohv        205@4400
    Maserati Biturbo E   1985  6.3 15.0 129 V6 sohc twin turbo  205@5250
    Chevy Corvette conv  1987  6.3 14.8 150 V8       ohv        240@4000
    Porsche 928S         1986  6.3 14.7 152 V8      dohc        288@5750
    Maserati 430         1989  6.3 15.0 150 V6 turbo sohc 3v/cyl225@5600
    BMW M5               1987  6.3 14.6 147 6in                 256@6500
    Ford Mustang GT      1988  6.4 15.0 142 V8       ohv        225@4400
    Ferrari 308 GTB      1976  6.4 14.6 154 V8 dohc             243@7700
    Toyota Supra Turbo   1987  6.4 15.0 145 V6 turbo            230@5600
    Ford Mustang Boss302 1970  6.4 14.9 118 302cu               290@5800
    Plymouth GTX         1971  6.5 14.9 130 440 cu              370@4600
    Toyota MR2 Superchg  1988  6.5 15.0 130 4in supercharged    145@6400
    Dodge Charger SE     1971  6.5 14.8 133 440cu               370@4600
    Chevy Corvette       1978  6.5 15.2 132 V8 ohv              220@5200
    Plymouth GTX         1971  6.5 14.9 130 440cu               370@4600
    Porsche 911 Cabrio   1988  6.5 15.0 149 6cyl 2v sohc        214@5900
    Pontiac Trans-Am     1978  6.5 15.3   0 V8 ohv              220@4000
    Mazda RX-7 Turbo     1986  6.6 15.2 145 2-rotor Wankel turbo182@6500
    Chevy Corvette       1985  6.6 15.0 149 V8 ohv              230@4000
    Mits Eclipse Turbo   1989  6.6 15.1 143 4in 4v dohc turbo   190@6000
    Lotus Turbo Esprit   1984  6.6 15.3 148 in4 dohc turbo      205@6000
    Porsche 944 Turbo    1988  6.6 15.1 149 4cyl 2v sohc turbo  217@5800
    Chevy Corvette       1979  6.6 15.6   0 V6 ohv              220@5200
    Ford Taurus SHO      1989  6.6 15.2 140 dohc 4valve V6      220@6000
    Chevy Camaro IROC-Z  1987  6.6 14.9 150 8cyl     ohv        215@4400
    Toyota Supra Turbo   1989  6.6 15.2 140 in6 dohc turbo 4v/cy232@5600
    Shelby GLH-S         1986  6.7 15.3 120 4in     sohc  turbo 175@5300
    Porsche 911SC        1980  6.7 15.3 138 6fl sohc            172@5500
    Ford Mustang GT      1987  6.7 15.3 148 V8       ohv        225@4400
    Ferrari 412          1985  6.7 15.0 147 V12     dohc        340@6000
    Ferrari 328 GTS      1988  6.7 15.0 149 V8   4v dohc        260@7000
    Nissan 300ZX Turbo   1986  6.7 15.3 143 V6           turbo  228@5400
    Ford Taurus SHO      1989  6.7 15.1 143 V6 dohc 4v/cyl      220@6000
    Chevy Camaro IROCL88 1987  6.8 15.3 149 V8       ohv        220@4200
    Chevy Corvette L88   1968  6.8 14.1 151 V8       ohv        430@5800
    Ferrari 308 GTSi     1983  6.8 15.2 142 V8 4v dohc          230@5800
    Mercedes Benz 560SL  1988  6.8 15.2 137 V8   2v sohc        227@4750
    Porsche 944S         1987  6.8 15.2 143 4in 4v dohc         188@6000
    BMW M3               1987  6.9 15.2 141 4in                 192@6750
    BMW 750iL            1988  6.9 15.2 155 V12     dohc        300@5200
    Porsche 928S         1983  7.0 15.4 136 V8 sohc             234@5500
    Toyota Supra         1986  7.0 15.4 133 6cyl 4v dohc        200@6000
    Mercedes Benz 560SEC 1986  7.0 15.5 145 V8      sohc        238@5200
    Shelby CSX           1987  7.0 15.4 131 4in sohc turbo      175@5300
    Plymouth Road Runner 1975  7.0 17.1 115 400cu               190@4000
    BMW 333i Alpina      1979  7.0 15.7 129 6in sohc            220@6000
    Porsche 911 Cabrio   1983  7.0 15.5 124 6fl sohc            172@5500
    Toyota MR2 Superchg  1988  7.0 15.3 135 4cyl 4v dohc superch145@6400


    If anyone can help me out, I'm looking for some road tests of
	*** 68-70 Dodge Chargers w/318, 383, and 440 ***
	*** 70-74 Barracuda w/318, 340, 383, and 440 ***
	*** 68-74 Camaros and Z28s ***
	*** All corvettes ***
	  and other MOPARS and musclecars from the 60's and early 70's.


	Specifically I need:
	  MODEL
	  YEAR
	  ISSUE (magazine publication, book, date of that issue)
	  LISTPRICE
	  PRICE of car tested
	  0-60
	  QTR_MI
	  TOP SPEED
	  BRAKING distance from 80mph to 0mph
	  SLALOM
	  LATERAL G's 
	  MPG City EPA
	  ENGINE SPECS (#cyls, cyl configuration, #valves/cyl, sohc or dohc,
			turbo, super, twin-turbo)
  	  DISPLACEMENT in cc's
	  PEAK HP@RPM    
	  PEAK TORQUE@RPM
	  FUEL DELIVERY (type of injection/carbeuration, #barrels)
	  TRANS (3-4-5 speed man/auto)

 	if anyone can supply some muclecar road tests with all the records
	above, I might be persuaded to post the entire listing of 500+
	cars.  Thanks!
---
Scott Brodsky
sbrodsky@hawk.ulowell.edu
---
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott Brodsky,     University of Lowell, MA,      sbrodsky@hawk.ulowell.edu
"If my calculations are correct, when this baby hits 88mph ... you're gonna
see some serious shit!"

----------
Posted by: Mark J Bradakis 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 06:55:55 1993
Subject: Re: Real Street Triple Crown
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 > Dave Williams initial suggestion.
 
> -> I would hope that this "triple-crown" stuff would use a road course
> -> instead of (or along with) the 1/4 mile as a performance measure.
> 
>  As long as we're bench racing, there's no need to limit it to three
> tests.  How about -
> 
>         1/4 mile ET - any drag strip
points equal to fastest ET = 1 point 532 car gets 532 points etc.
> 
>         top speed -  
	use salt flats to asure adequate space.
fastest t.s = 1 point etc.

>         standardized autocross course 
	Use Elkhart lake nice fast course with sharp turns.  Each entry runs
	3 laps each timed. 
Fastest lap time  gets 1 point.  etc down the line.
> 
> 
>         emissions (extra points to cleaner cars) - stuff a sniffer
>                 up the exhaust
Yea lowest hydro gets one point, worst gets equal to no of entries etc.
also some rating on additional points for CO
> 
>         economy (extra points to more frugal cars)
Great 60 mile course any speed car that uses least gas gets 1 point etc.
> 

Final results  (possible)

Modified 1963 "_____"
	1/4 mile   ET = 7.12 sec @ 197 mph		1 point
	top speed    206 mph				7 points
	Auto cross 2:47 			      203 points
	Emissions Hydro		24.8		      358 points
	Emissions CO		4.9		      263 points
	Economy	  64 gallons			      507 points
		total 				     1339 points

Yogi
	1/4 mile	ET 27 sec.		      506 points
	top speed	78 mph			      389 points
	Auto cross	5.43			      402 points
	Emissions Hydro 0.2				3 points
	Emissions CO	0.0				1 point
	Economy 1.4 gallons				2 points
		total				     1303 points

Who is the hotter of the two?

 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 07:00:20 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


There are other questions regarding fastest.  Are you refering to top speed
capability or 1/4 mile times.

427 Cobra's and 427 Vette's would be top contenders for the top speed awards
however these were far from 1/4 mile performance machines (suspension).  On
yhe 1/4 mile circuit some of the 427 Nova's would be right up there mainly
because 4.56  to 5.13 gears were available as factory options which on the
Hemi's were not factory available.  Now if gear changes and tire changes
are allowed it might be completly different.

The big question then exists as to what is stock?  Pure show room condition,
NHRA pure stock definations (alows bluiprinting) or NHRA stock (alows loads
of minor modifications? 

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 15:33:18 1993
Subject: Bureau of Weights and Measures
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 I had to rearrange my scrap pen to make room for more scrap. Since I was
moving the motors around I decided to weigh the pieces and test the assertion
that Buick big blocks weigh about the same as small blocks. It appears to be
true. Weights of various engine pieces:

Engine Disp          350 small block        430 big block
Block                     150lb                 160lb
Heads (pr)                100lb (bare)          120lb (stuffed) ~110 bare
Intake (iron)              48lb                  44lb
Exhaust (iron, pr)         28lb                  25lb
Crankshaft                 50lb                  65lb

 In fact some of the BBB pieces are actually lighter than their SBB counter-
parts. The 350 intake is a real piglet; going to aluminum there would shave
1% of the total car weight. 

 The total weight is pretty close; the blocks are identical in width but
the big block is about an inch longer (bigger bore). The 400, 430 and 455
are basically the same casting. The 400 is the 430 except less material 
was removed from the bores. 

 How does the SBB350 compare with Chevy weights?

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 15:39:04 1993
Subject: no subject (file transmission)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Hey,
	I've been trying to make a list of mopar engines built since world
war II arranged by family.  Apparently this is not an easy task.  I'll
post what I have and wait for the inevitable corrections.  Please be
patient with me.  I don't think that the entire list appears anywhere in
any publication.  But parts appear here and there and if we all get
together with what we have, it just might happen.

How do we define a "family of engines"?
Engines that look identical or very much the same.

         170             60-70           slant/six
slant/6  198             70-74           slant/six
         225             60-83           slant/six

         350             58              wedge
BB       361             58-66           wedge
         383             59-71           wedge
         400             72-78           wedge

         383             59              wedge
RB       413             59-65           wedge
         426             63-65           wedge
         440             66-78           wedge
Isn't there another 413 not related to this one?

         273             64-67           wedge
LA       318             67-             wedge
         340             68-73           wedge
         360             74-             wedge

         276.1           52-             hemi         FireDome
         315             56              hemi
50s      330             56              hemi
         331.1           51-             hemi         FireDome
         341             56              hemi
         354             56              hemi
         392             57              hemi

HEMI     426             64-65,68        race hemi
         426             66-67,69-71     street hemi
 
         260             55              poly-head
         270             55              poly-head
         300             55              poly-head    Spitfire
         318             56-66           poly-head

         236             49              flat-head six
         217.8         pre-war           flat head six
There very well may be other flat head six engines.


In which families do these engines belong?
         303              56         Hy-Fire V-8 Dodge golden lancer
         301              57            

There are undoubtably 1950s engines not listed.  Do you know of any?

16.3870640 cu. cm. = 1 cu. in.
1000 cu. cm. = 1 liter

in Dodge 600
 1.7 - VW engine
 2.2 - Mopar engine
 2.5 - Bigger 2.2 (stroked?)
 2.6 - Mitsubishi engine

Since 1978, Homegrown:
  238      3.9l Magnum V6, 180hp, ???lb-ft
  318      5.2l Magnum V8, 230hp, ???lb-ft
  360      5.9l Magnum V8, 235hp, ???lb-ft
  489      8.0l R/T V10, 400hp, 450lb-ft

Are these engines grouped by displacement or is there some other more
distinguishing characteristic?	

  2.2l Carb'd, 90hp, ???lb-ft
  2.2l Shelby (GLH) Carb'd, 115hp, ???lb-ft
  2.2l TBI, 99hp, ???lb-ft
  2.2l Turbo I, 146hp, 170lb-ft
  2.2l Intercooled Turbo II, 174hp, 190lb-ft
  2.2l Shelby Intercooled Turbo II, 175hp, 175lb-ft
  2.2l R/T Intercooled 16V Turbo III, 224hp, 217lb-ft
  2.2l Intercooled VNT Turbo IV, 174hp, 190lb-ft
  2.5l TBI, 99hp, 135lb-ft
  2.5l Turbo I, 150hp, 170lb-ft
  2.5l High-Torque Turbo I, 152hp, 210lb-ft

  3.3l V6, 145hp, ???lb-ft
  3.5l 24v V6, 210hp, ???lb-ft
  3.9l V6, 125hp, ???lb-ft

  5.9l Cummins Turbo Diesel, 165hp, 400lb-ft

Since 1978, Imported:
  1.6l Peugeot
  1.7l VW
  2.6l Mitsubishi
  3.0l V6 Mitsubishi, 141hp, 170lb-ft

Tom Root
with help from members of hotrod@dixie.com and
mopar@casbah.acns.nwu.edu.
Send corrections and additons tom@marie.stat.uga.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 15:44:08 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 > 
>     From: sbrodsky@hawk.ulowell.edu (Scott Brodsky)
>     Mark Bradakis listed a prior post of the fastest 100 cars compiled by 
>     Scott Brodsky deleted from here to avoid redundancy. 

Gee its a nice interesting list yet looking at it, at appears that loads of
Cheyies are missing.  AS
	1966 NOVA 327@350 HP
	1970 Nova 396
	1971 Nova 427
	1973 NIKI 454 Nova
	--- 396 Camaro
	--- 427 Camaro
	--- 454 NIKI Camaro
	and the list could go on and on.
		What about the older machine like 1957 injected 327's?

Now let the MOPAR people claim you missed, and the Ford people claiming
you missed the 390 and 427 fairlanes, and 289 falcons.  etc.  etc.
Or did they fall outside the top 100's.

[I don't think many of those were geared for top speed, were they? JGD]

dennis

----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 15:49:21 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>Wonder if this fellow is still around, collecting data?
I doubt it, if it's a school address, he may have graduated, like I should
be.
>Hmmm, I didn't see my current autocross ride, a Triumph Spitfire, listed.
>Must be a mistake.
>    MODEL                YEAR O_60 Q_MI TOP ENGINE              BHP_RPM
>    -----                ---- ---- ---- --- ------              -------
>    Porsche 959          1988  3.6 12.0 190 6flat turbo 4v dohc 444@6500
>    Buick Regal GNX      1987  4.7 13.5 124 V6 turbo            300@4400
>    Dodge Charger        1968  4.8 13.5     426 HEMI            425@5000
"There is no substitute for cubic inches..."
"... except cubic dollars."  --my dad, probably quoting someone else
[Lots of quick cars deleted...]

>    BMW M1               1980  6.2 14.5 156 6in dohc            235@6500
		Hey, as a Bimmerphile, I know that it's really   277 bhp.
[Lots more quick cars deleted...]

>Scott Brodsky,     University of Lowell, MA,      sbrodsky@hawk.ulowell.edu
>Posted by: Mark J Bradakis 

	Thi VanAusdal,
	Univ. So. Carolina

----------
Posted by: emory!usceast.cs.scarolina.edu!ece.scarolina.edu!ausdal (Thi Van Ausdal)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 15:53:50 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Howdy!

Now that I'm a turbo car owner, I've been thinking about some
issues relating normally aspirated cars and turbo cars.
The reason that a turbo car of a given displacement can make more
power than an equally sized n.a. car is clear: decrease compression
ratio, but increase manifild pressure so that more air and fuel go in.
But, if I look at some numbers on turbo cars, I have some questions:
Suppose that you drop the C.R. to 8:1, but you put 2 bar pressure at
the intake manifold.  How does this motor stay together?  I mean we
can't build a 16:1 n.a. motor....  Obviously there must be a bit more
inefficiency in filling the cylinders in the turbo car, but how much?

[Quite nicely, actually.  A bit tricky but doable.  The turbo Z engines
I build will run at 25-30 psi manifold pressure. It requires racing
gas and fairly heavy water injection but it DOES make a LOT of power.
I have never had the opportunity to balance off boost vs compression
but I do know that a low compression, high boost motor is very doggy
off-boost.  JGD]

How much less efficient do the cylinders get filled with 2 bar of pressure?
Where is the largest inefficiency?  

[The problem is the exhaust also has an above atmospheric pressure in it
which limits filling.  I typically see 10-12 psi of pressure between the
exhaust port and turbo inlet on the above described motor.  This is IMHO
kinda high and could be improved by juggling turbine wheel size and A/R
housing size but again we're talking about a lot of bux to do so.  One
thing the higher restriction turbine does is give a bit better throttle
response because it spools up faster.  JGD]

I have gotten the impression (wrongly???) that efficeincy of the intake
tract and valve timing etc. were less critical on a turbo car.  This
could just be that most are designed to help low end response????

[to make a given amount of power, that is true.  To achieve the best power
or to achieve the best efficiency, tuning matters just as much as with
normally aspirated engines.  JGD]

Any ideas?

Brandon

----------
Posted by: Brandon Dixon 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 15:58:48 1993
Subject: For Sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I have a bunch of late model mustang stuff lying about the garage.
I'm in the middle of a project converting my ITE/Firehawk mustang to
SCCA American Sedan specs. I've also got a bunch of stuff left over
from when I ran the car in Solo II ESP.  I'm getting rid of the seat
because I've got a custom butler-built seat now :-).  I'm getting rid
of the cage because I can use a full weld-in cage in AS.

All prices are somewhat negotiable.  Please give me a call if you want
to talk about any of it.

For Sale - Misc Late Model Mustang Race/Street parts:
----------

Corbeau Kevlar race seat (fair condition) - $350

Firehawk/SCCA legal 6 point bolt-in roll-cage with window net - $400

JBA rear strut tower brace - Make offer

JBA G-load brace - Make offer

Several sets of FI manifolds, injectors, throttle bodies - Make offer

1988 speed density computer - Make offer

SVO 1 5/8" stainless shorty headers - Make offer

Various red interior pieces - inquire

4 15" Aluminum LX Wheels - make offer

4 RE71R full tread (rain) 225-50-R15 1 rain race on them, almost
perfect condition - $75 each


-Bob


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:rmwise | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-----------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-592-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 15 16:05:39 1993
Subject: Late Model Mustang Parts
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I omitted from my previous mail...

For sale:

two Koni SS rear shocks
two Koni rear quad shocks

6 races - excellent condition - stiff as all get out (too stiff for
the low rate springs I'm using on the rear now... thats why I'm
selling them)

Make me an offer!

-Bob


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Bob Wise          | INET:622-1322 | MCIMail:rmwise | Pager:719-577-1928 |
| Unix Consultant   |-----------------------------------------------------|
| Consultant to MCI | Phone:719-592-1322 | Internet:rmwise@apdev.mci.com  |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------
Posted by: emory!mcigate.apdev.mci.com!rmwise (Bob_Wise)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 04:15:03 1993
Subject: Fastest car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com








>My guess for the post 75 era would be the Viper.  For the pre-75, I
>would guess something powered by a 426 hemi?


Nope - Cobra, of course.

----------
Posted by: emory!frame.com!dkl (Doug K. Landau)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 04:19:22 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>Now let the MOPAR people claim you missed, and the Ford people claiming
>you missed the 390 and 427 fairlanes, and 289 falcons.  etc.  etc.
>Or did they fall outside the top 100's.

Okay, for fastest 1/4 miler: 1968 Hemi Dart/Cuda.
>
>[I don't think many of those were geared for top speed, were they? JGD]
>
Some of the cars mentioned above were available with highway gearing for the
top speed category.  Some are just for the 1/4 mile category.

>dennis
>
David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 04:24:33 1993
Subject: valve seats
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 I recently came across an old motorcycle magazine.  It mentioned some
guy's super-duper porting job, then mentioned he'd whittled his own
valve seats out of beryllium-copper alloy.  The beryllium-copper was
supposed to match the heat expansion of the head a little closer than
the usual cast iron seat, and it had much better thermal conductivity,
which is fairly important on air cooled motors.

 If I can scavenge some tubing or bar stock it looks like it'd be easy
enough to play around with on the lathe.  However, does anyone know of a
place which already sells seats made of this stuff?  If not, how about a
place that'd be willing to sell *very* small quantities of the metal,
like a foot or so of bar?
              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 04:29:23 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> OK, my definition of production car is something that is street
-> legal, has license plates and all that, and most of all, something
-> anyone could could purchase from a car dealer.   Does the GT40 meet
-> all this?

 Yes, yes, yes, and yes, though you'd have had to lead the dealer around
by the nose to get one.  Ford sold most of the GT40s directly, bypassing
the dealer network.


-> If so, what was the top speed?

 It depended on gearing and state of tune.  Well over 200 though.
                                                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 04:34:49 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>[The problem is the exhaust also has an above atmospheric pressure in it
>which limits filling.  I typically see 10-12 psi of pressure between the
>exhaust port and turbo inlet on the above described motor.  This is IMHO
>kinda high and could be improved by juggling turbine wheel size and A/R
>housing size but again we're talking about a lot of bux to do so.  One
>thing the higher restriction turbine does is give a bit better throttle
>response because it spools up faster.  JGD]

I have always theorized that the high back pressure is helpful in
reducing conrod loading at high revs. Comments?

[Well, a 4" dia piston with 12 psi of pressure has about 150 lbs 
of pressure on it.  Does that help?  Dunno.  Would be an interesting
problem to compute.  JGD]

>I have gotten the impression (wrongly???) that efficeincy of the intake
>tract and valve timing etc. were less critical on a turbo car.  This
>could just be that most are designed to help low end response????

>[to make a given amount of power, that is true.  To achieve the best power
>or to achieve the best efficiency, tuning matters just as much as with
>normally aspirated engines.  JGD]

>Any ideas?

All engineering books I have read agre that to get max. HP from a 
supercharged engine, lower the compression ratio, and up the boost.

[Probably true but that does not address driveability.  To see an 
example of that, look at the Porche turbo race cars or F1 cars before
turbos were banned.  JGD]

The real limitation is detonation, and the higher the octane rating,
the more of both you can have (C/R and boost, that is) In world war one
the germans were using *overcompressed* engines as a stopgap method of
gaining altitude performance without a supercharger. This was just a
higher C/R, by about 2 points I think, and the pilots couldntuse full
throttle until a certain altitude because of detonation with the low
octane fuel then used, so not much is new :-). 

Remember the Olds turboed 215 V8 in theearly
sixties? It had a 10.5 to 1 C/R and the turbo, plus MW50 injection
to keep everything together. An interesting attemp to get both fuel
economy and power. 

My understanding of engine component stress and supercharging is that
you can increase the power output a lot via supercharging without
damaging anything, as long as you avoid detonation, and can take
care of the extra heat generated, simple in a water cooled engine,
but not in an air cooled one. A highly loaded, blown engine that
starts detonating will grenade quickly if you dont reduce the load.

JD

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 13:59:45 1993
Subject: FWD>Fuel Pump
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               FWD>Fuel Pump


                          SUBJECT:  High volumne Fuel Pump for the GN
One in-tank fuel pump that a friend of
mine was using instead of an aux. fuel pump.  He is using an adjustable
pressure regulator and has the fuel enhancer and the car went 12.32 @ 109 last
fall.  It's a very light T-Type.

Here's the part numbers:

GM #25116853
AC #EP-270

This pump was available mainly on the Syclones and is about 1/2" shorter than
our pumps.  As a result, when you mount it on the sending unit, you need to
fabricate a little extender to be able to run the stock pulsator and still have
the sock rest on the bottom of the tank like it should.  Very easy to do with a
piece of steel fuel line.

It has the highest GPH rating of all the pumps AC makes ... although my GM
parts source tells me that the new NorthStar V8 in the '93 Allante may be the
hot ticket.  He's still trying to eyeball it to see how it would fit on our
sending units.

-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  More *POWER*!  More *BOOST*!  Urrrrr! Urrrrr!




----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 14:05:15 1993
Subject: Re: Need Piston suggestions 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


> Date:  Fri, 12 Feb 1993 15:36:38 -0600 (CST)
> From:  Chip Schweis 
> 
>I'm in the process of modifying my A-code '66 289 in my '66 Mustang GT. 
>I am putting on '78 302 heads, which I have ported, polished, and opened
>up for larger valves.  

>My concern is how low my compression will be with these heads since they
>are open chamber, and the original heads are closed chamber.  I believe
>these heads have a 63cc chamber, but I am not positive (I can't measure
>them while I am at school and they are not).  The pistons I currently have
>are dished.  I want to achieve a compression ratio of 9.5:1 to 10.0:1. 
>Can anyone suggest a name and part number, or a place that can help for a
>piston that will achive this c/r.  I'm looking for either good cast, or
>forged pistons. 

Good concern.  The orignal heads were 63.5 cc.  The '78 heads are 69cc, plus
you have opened them up some more.  The dished pistons don't seem to be
stock.  I would strongly recommend taking your time and carefully measuring
and computing the CR.  I am sure the TRW will have exactly what you need,
but be careful with piston/valve clearance.  These are issues I don't even
want to guess about.

What are you doing about the valve train?  The '66 uses an adjustable
hydraulic ball/socket rocker, with close tolerance head pushrod holes for
guiding the pushrods.  The '78 uses stamped steel, not adjustable, pedestals.
Note that the stock pushrods are *slightly* different length between the
two different engines.  Just thought you should know.......

>Also can anyone tell me how durable the lower end on these 289's are. 
>This is not a Hi-Po block, it has two bolt mains.  Will it have any problems
>with running 6500 rpm? 

The only problem I ever had with my 289s was one broken rod bolt (of course,
that lead to many other instantaneous problems :-).  The 289's short stroke
does not place high stresses on the lower end, so you should be fine.

>Chip Schweiss
>cschweis@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu



----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 14:27:46 1993
Subject: Re: '38 flathead
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

By valve covers, you probably meant to say heads.  At a swap meet
someone will probably be interested.
Mike Brattland

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 14:31:57 1993
Subject: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


i was wondering why con rods need to be reconditioned.
do the big ends get out of round or does the metal stretch?
what is the limiting measurement before the rod needs to be
redone?
dan stanger

----------
Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 14:36:37 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Doug K. L. replied to an unknown poster
> 
> >My guess for the post 75 era would be the Viper.  For the pre-75, I
> >would guess something powered by a 426 hemi?

Well if the posting earlier is accurate fastest pre 75 US machines are
1.	1968 Charger with 426 Hemi
2.	1970 Shelby Cobra 289 cu. in.
3.	1970 Chevelle SS454
		I'm surprised that the 426 Hemi Challanger,  Shelby 427 Cobra,
		Nova 327,350HP, or 396, 427, or 454 didn't make the top three,
		or even the top 100?

Then sorry about your viper but of US post 1975 machines.
1.	Buick Regal Grand Sport
2.	Calloway Corvette (is this really a stock machine?)
3.	Pontiac Turbo TA
4.	Chevey Corvette
		Surprising again all GM products with 2 even having 6 bangers
		in them. 
> 
> 
> Nope - Cobra, of course.
Sorry Cobra 289 cu in came in second of US machines.

Now let's think about the European 12 cylinder cars.  With us cranking out 
almost 200 HP out of about 2 liter engines if we just lenghtened the engine
to 8 cylinders w could come up with a 4.4 liter 400 hp engine.  Then extend
it to 12 cylinders and get a 600 HP 6.6 liters engine.  That's less cubes
than the prior Hemi and more horsepower.  Why don't the US manufactures apply
some of there new technology to larger engines and create some real machines
again?

dennis
 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 14:42:00 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Dave Williams an obvious FORD man writes
> _> An unnamed individual asked
> -> OK, my definition of production car is something that is street
> -> legal, has license plates and all that, and most of all, something
> -> anyone could could purchase from a car dealer.   Does the GT40 meet
> -> all this?
> 
>  Yes, yes, yes, and yes, though you'd have had to lead the dealer around
> by the nose to get one.  Ford sold most of the GT40s directly, bypassing
> the dealer network.

Well the same story applied to McClarians, and Chaporales with Chevey
engines who were not included in the listing either.  And if you added them
with the Ford GT's it would probably drop many cars down.
> 
> 
> -> If so, what was the top speed?
> 
>  It depended on gearing and state of tune.  Well over 200 though.
> 
All three of these were 200 plus machines even hitting 230 at LeMan's.
Back in the late 60's these three dominated European road racing and
they all had US built engines.                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 14:51:58 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Jim Davis wrote:
> 
> My understanding of engine component stress and supercharging is that
> you can increase the power output a lot via supercharging without
> damaging anything, as long as you avoid detonation, and can take
> care of the extra heat generated, simple in a water cooled engine,
> but not in an air cooled one. A highly loaded, blown engine that
> starts detonating will grenade quickly if you dont reduce the load.
> 
That gets me wondering if that's half the reason so many blowers seem
to erupt on Nitro Machines.  Early detonation leaking into the blower
filled with compressed fuel and air and pop.  Just an idea.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 17:38:41 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

[To continue our discussion of turbo stuff:]

>How much less efficient do the cylinders get filled with 2 bar of pressure?
>Where is the largest inefficiency?  

>[The problem is the exhaust also has an above atmospheric pressure in it
>which limits filling.  I typically see 10-12 psi of pressure between the
>exhaust port and turbo inlet on the above described motor.  This is IMHO
>kinda high and could be improved by juggling turbine wheel size and A/R
>housing size but again we're talking about a lot of bux to do so.  One
>thing the higher restriction turbine does is give a bit better throttle
>response because it spools up faster.  JGD]

>I have gotten the impression (wrongly???) that efficeincy of the intake
>tract and valve timing etc. were less critical on a turbo car.  This
>could just be that most are designed to help low end response????

>[to make a given amount of power, that is true.  To achieve the best power
>or to achieve the best efficiency, tuning matters just as much as with
>normally aspirated engines.  JGD]

My current car (944T) with an aftermarket chip falls into the category 
that we were describing: 8:1 c.r. and 2bar of boost.  I runs great on
93 octane without any water injection or other detonation prevention
methods.  I guess that I'm trying to figure out where to go from here.
I may not have much room without water injection or other detonation
prevention techniques (or GOOD gas of course).
I would be interested in measuring the backpressure prior to the
'charger.  How did you instrument this?  Things are pretty hot there.

[Just weld on a socket and attach a steel tube fitting to the header.
or drill and tap the cast iron exhaust manifold.  Run steel tubing 
for a foot or so.  Hot gasses won't go any farther than that.
Then use the pressure indicator of your choice.  I generally use a 
pressure transmitter and stripchart recorder but an ordinary pressure
gauge works fine.  BTW, an ordinary oil pressure transmitter works
fine if you drive it with a constant current, use kelvin sensing (separate
wires for excitation and measurement) and calibrate it against a gauge.
Being cheap, or more accurately, not caring to drive across atlanta to
buy the things, I make my sockets out of short lengths of rod stock or
thick walled tubing, depending on what I have on hand.  Just weld it on,
drill the hole into the exhaust and tap appropriate pipe threads.  
Because I have a bunch left over from my nuking days, I use Swagelock
stainless steel compression fittings but ordinary steel will work.  JGD]

The exhaust side of the plumbing seems to be about as free flowing as
I can get: the headers are nice and the pipe is large enough.  I'll
assume that the cat flows well enough (unless someone tells me otherwise).

The intake side of things looks like it could be improved by porting the
manifold, but this could turn out to be a marginal improvement if the
exhaust side of things is the real bottleneck.  

[The problem you run into with many OEM turbos is they are sized for good
throttle response which means a small turbine and a small A/R housing
with lots of wastegate bypass.  This works but the turbine represents a 
lot of restriction.  Add a new PROM or otherwise muck with the wastegate
so that a lot more exhaust flow goes through the housing and the 
exhaust pressure rises.  This pressure effectively subtracts from the 
intake pressure.  You suffer the additional heating from compressing
atmospheric pressure air but you get only a fraction of the power the
gauge manifold pressure would indicate.  A more realistic pressure indication 
is the differential across the engine.  That is, the manifold pressure minus
the exhaust pressure.  You can easily measure this even without a DP cell.
Simply mount a common pressure gauge in a small, heavy glass jar and pipe
the jar to the low pressure side.  Pipe the gauge to the high pressure side
and the gauge will read the difference.  JGD]

My turbo has 72k on it, so I guess that it's day will come.  There was
an S model unit with a slightly larger exhaust housing, so it may be worth
the trouble then.

While I have your attention, there seems to be a lot of net knowledge
about domestic engine management boxes, but are there folks out there
that know the insides of a bosch motoronic box?  Got any ideas about how
to obtain description of the data format on the eproms?

Thanks!
Brandon Dixon
bdd@cs.princeton.edu

----------
Posted by: Brandon Dixon 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 17:49:03 1993
Subject: '75 FORD 302 Timing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 
     I just rebuilt a '75 302 for a 79 Mustang, nothing special, just mild
performance mods.   The only problem is setting the initial spark
timing.   Looking at  the tab on the blo, there are two ways I can set
it:
       
  B   -------     <---  Look here with the timing light
  L   |     |
  O   |     |               or
  C   |     /
  K   ----/   <-----  Look here with the timing light

     The advance numbers are cast into the balancer.   The top and the
bottom of the tab are easily viewed, so I can't tell which one to look
at.  Right now, it's set at 8 degrees, by the top of the tab.  Runs
good, but I can tell it needs some more....
   
     Also, any good notes on base timing (what should it be?!?!?).

---> Bob "Yeah, I'm a Ascii Artist... NOT!" Valentine
---> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 17:57:00 1993
Subject: Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



        I am looking for a good, lightweight means of intercooling a
        supercharged (roots type) gas dragster.  A typical intercooler
        for a blown V8 sits between the supercharger and the intake
        manifold, the intercooler being nothing more than a small 
        radiator with water circulating through it.  This is great
        except for the fact that water = weight, and in drag racing
        weight = slow.  My idea is to use some type of compressed
        gas ( nitrogen, C02, etc..) instead of water.  The gas would
        flow through the intercooler cooling the incoming air/fuel
        mixture, and then out into the atmosphere.  The gas would 
        need to be non-toxic.  The compressed gas tank would only     
        need to hold about a 10-15 second charge.  Does this sound
        feasable???  How much gas at what psi would I need to do
        the same job as water??? 



                        Chris Demke
                        Sun Microsystems
                        Chris.Demke@west.sun.com

[CO2 would work but I can't imagine an SFI/DOT approved pressure vessel
being lighter than a small radiator and a bit of water.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!sundude.JPL.NASA.GOV!chris (Chris Demke)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 16 18:03:13 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


  writes
 on Date: Thu, 11 Feb 93 21:17 EST

(stuff deleted)

>Although you can pick up a 427 block for a relatively reasonable price, (I
>saw one at a swap meet for $150, and boy did I *want* to pick it up.  Space
>limitations and physical strength sort of got in the way :( )
>the cammer *heads* are, well, quite expensive.  You may be able to get away
>with duping someone into thinking their side-oiler can be gotten elsewhere
>"cheap", but anyone with one or more SOHC heads *knows* what they're worth.

427so stuff is rare and expensive here in B.C., Canada, and in fact I'm looking
for one this year - any suggestions?  

Russell King

----------
Posted by: "Russell M. King, TRIUMF, (604)222-1047x311" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 04:58:39 1993
Subject: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 I finally tracked PRD back down.  They're still around and making CF
pushrods.  Unfortunately, they prices have gone up quite a bit since
they've moved.  They're wanting $180 for a set of 5/16 rods, $220 per
set of 3/8, and $336 per set of 7/16.

 Oddly, they don't make any mention of the special plastic guide plates,
which are presumably no longer considered necessary.

 I still like the idea of lightening the valvetrain, but this is a bit
on the expensive side for what is basically an arrow shaft with a couple
of ball ends.  Maybe I'll save my money and just put some pinstripe tape
all over the taillights...


 I might see about making some pushrods out of 7075 aluminum; I can get
the ball ends from Comp Cams.
                                                                                                                       

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 05:12:25 1993
Subject: lifter resurfacing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 Most modern V-8 engines don't use flat lifters.  If you hold a lifter
against a straightedge and look, you'll see the surface is actually
crowned on a new lifter.  I first became aware of this when Ford warned
people against using conventional lifters on their DOZX-series BOSS
cams, which were ground with a different spherical radius, something
like 100 inch instead of 80 inch.  (I'm too lazy to dig up the reference
now)

 The spherical radius is supposed to help the lifter rotate.  The cam
lobe is slightly offset from the center of the lifter bore.  The extra
drag of the oil on the offset side is supposed to slowly turn the lifter
in its bore, evening wear etc.

 It looks like I'm going to have to mock up something with one of the
spare engine blocks, a cam, and an electric motor to drive it.  I have
serious doubts the lifter rotates at all in normal use.  The friction in
the pushrod ends would tend to keep it straight.  Rather than cudgeling
my brains trying to work out a theory, I'll cheap out and just run a
test motor up and see.   

 Anyway, this gets back to something else.  I just overhauled a 3000
mile old 350 Chevy.  The crown was gone from all the lifters.  Since I
kept them in proper order I just popped them back in, but this made me
wonder how necessary the spherical radius was.  Baud knows I've pulled
out enough lifters which were cupped the other way.  I was sort of
thinking about chucking a few in a lathe with a grinding fixture to see
how a flat lifter would work when I found a photo of a lifter
refinishing machine in an 1967 car repair manual.  Yep, some shops used
to just grind used lifters back flat.  Presumably, not all cars use
radiused lifters anyway.
                                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 05:16:13 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dennis Bednarek writes:
"That gets me wondering if that's half the reason so many blowers seem
to erupt on Nitro Machines.  Early detonation leaking into the blower
filled with compressed fuel and air and pop."

Usually when a blower explodes near the starting line it's because
one of the intake valves didn't make a good seal when it closed.
When the spark lights the mixture in that cylinder then the flame
leaks around the valve back into the manifold and blower.

Remember that these engines are essentially new when they are run.
They don't run long enough between overhauls to get thoroughly
debugged!

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (Bob Hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 05:24:39 1993
Subject: Re: Need Piston suggestions 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



On Tue, 16 Feb 1993, Dan Malek wrote:

> 
> > Date:  Fri, 12 Feb 1993 15:36:38 -0600 (CST)
> > From:  Chip Schweis 
> > 
> >I'm in the process of modifying my A-code '66 289 in my '66 Mustang GT. 
> >I am putting on '78 302 heads, which I have ported, polished, and opened
> >up for larger valves.  
> 
> >My concern is how low my compression will be with these heads since they
> >are open chamber, and the original heads are closed chamber.  I believe
> >these heads have a 63cc chamber, but I am not positive (I can't measure
> >them while I am at school and they are not).  The pistons I currently have
> >are dished.  I want to achieve a compression ratio of 9.5:1 to 10.0:1. 
> >Can anyone suggest a name and part number, or a place that can help for a
> >piston that will achive this c/r.  I'm looking for either good cast, or
> >forged pistons. 
> 
> Good concern.  The orignal heads were 63.5 cc.  The '78 heads are 69cc, plus
> you have opened them up some more.  The dished pistons don't seem to be
> stock.  I would strongly recommend taking your time and carefully measuring
> and computing the CR.  I am sure the TRW will have exactly what you need,
> but be careful with piston/valve clearance.  These are issues I don't even
> want to guess about.
> 
> What are you doing about the valve train?  The '66 uses an adjustable
> hydraulic ball/socket rocker, with close tolerance head pushrod holes for
> guiding the pushrods.  The '78 uses stamped steel, not adjustable, pedestals.
> Note that the stock pushrods are *slightly* different length between the
> two different engines.  Just thought you should know.......
> 

Good point, though it is a problem I have already resolved on these heads,
but failed to mention.  I used a kit made by Crane which converts from the
pedestals to screw in studs with guide plates, for a fully ajustable valve
trane.  

Chip Schweiss
cschweis@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu




----------
Posted by: Chip Schweis 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 05:28:17 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest car
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> 2.   Calloway Corvette (is this really a stock machine?)

 It has a Chevrolet RPO number, same as the Yenko Novas did.  GMAC will
finance it and GM will honor the warranty, so that looks like stock to
me.   I think Callaway is flat-out lying with some of their numbers, but
that's beside the point.


-> it to 12 cylinders and get a 600 HP 6.6 liters engine.  That's less
-> cubes than the prior Hemi and more horsepower.  Why don't the US
-> manufactures apply some of there new technology to larger engines and
-> create some real machines again?

 Sheer horsepower isn't really the problem.  For example, my pal Jay has
a Mitsubishi Galant Turbo 4x4 rated at 200hp and a Corvette rated at
245hp.  The Mitsubishi is lighter than the 'vette, and given the numbers
you'd think the Galant would at least perform in the 'vette's general
range.  Unfortunately, the 'vette will just annihilate it, turbocharger,
four wheel positrac, and all.

 The difference is in the shape of the torque curve.  The Corvette comes
on with twice the torque to start with and peak-to-peak is still close
to twice as much, plus the Corvette's red line is just above where the
Galant starts to make serious boost.  Even the turbo can't compensate
for 2000cc vs 5700cc.  The Corvette has "only" 45hp more, but the power
is everywhere instead of jammed up at the top of the curve.

 Another friend of mine just picked up a 455 Olds motor for his pickup
truck.  Yeah, it's only rated at 270hp, hardly more than the 350 Olds in
there now.  But it's rated at 505 ft-lbs of torque!  Horsepower numbers
alone don't give a good indication of an engine's performance.
                                                                                        
[Speaking of that, did anyone see the blurb in the back of this month's
Car & Driver about the Hyundai marine diesel engines?  20,000 hp at 88 RPM.
That's 1,193,636 ft-lbs of torque from an engine with a 20 ft stroke. :-)
A picture showed the writer standing up under a crank journal.  JGD] 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 05:31:36 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Well the same story applied to McClarians, and Chaporales with Chevey
-> engines who were not included in the listing either.  And if you
-> added them with the Ford GT's it would probably drop many cars down.

 Ford actually sold some GT40s as street cars.  Bruce McLaren built
*one* M6BGT for street use.  Jim Hall has, to the best of my knowlege,
never built a street Chapparal.

 BTW, the McLarens usually came set up for the small block *Oldsmobile*
motor.  Most were either special-ordered with Chevrolet engines, or were
converted after delivery, according to my copy of "The Racing Sports
Car."
                                                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 05:34:45 1993
Subject: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> i was wondering why con rods need to be reconditioned.
-> do the big ends get out of round or does the metal stretch?
-> what is the limiting measurement before the rod needs to be
-> redone?

 If an engine is run for a long time under detonation, it'll eventually
pound the big ends out of round.  If it has been run without oil
pressure the bearing shells may spin.  If either happens, the rebuilder
takes a little metal off the cap, then rebores the rod round.  A
correctly rebored rod may show an unmachined patch up to 1/2 inch wide
at the parting line - this is just fine.  Some shops wind up shortening
the whole rod by a detectable amount, trying to get a clean cut all the
way around, since some customers bitch iffen it ain't all shiny.

 The shops buy manuals with the limits for this sort of stuff, or the
numbers can be found in the factory service manuals, or sometimes in the
bearing catalogs.
                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 05:39:13 1993
Subject: alt.hotrod car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



Thanks to my ol' email hotrodding friend Bill Drake for posting a picture of
my '64 Fuelie Corvette and blown '31 Model A  :^)

Bill also posted a couple of pictures of Geofs 'ute for your viewing pleasure.

Isn't it about time for the first annual alt.hotrod car show on ftp.nau.edu?
C'mon and get those pictures ftp'd!

Phil - WB9AAX

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!prg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 05:50:19 1993
Subject: Re: Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

A number of Bonneville racers have been using nitrous as a cooling
agent in their cars.  One thing you should be careful of is regulations.
Many of the good cooling gases also make good oxyginators...course if you
wanted to run nitrous anyway....                                       

-- 
===========================================================================
  "Bureaucracy is a challenge to be conquered with a righteous attitude,
     a tolerance for stupidity, and a bulldozer when necessary"
                  -- Peter's Laws

----------
Posted by: Gregory Mark Stiegler 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 13:32:39 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>>[The problem is the exhaust also has an above atmospheric pressure in it
>>which limits filling.  I typically see 10-12 psi of pressure between the
>>exhaust port and turbo inlet on the above described motor.  This is IMHO
>>kinda high and could be improved by juggling turbine wheel size and A/R
>>housing size but again we're talking about a lot of bux to do so.  One
>>thing the higher restriction turbine does is give a bit better throttle
>>response because it spools up faster.  JGD]

>I have always theorized that the high back pressure is helpful in
>reducing conrod loading at high revs. Comments?

>[Well, a 4" dia piston with 12 psi of pressure has about 150 lbs 
>of pressure on it.  Does that help?  Dunno.  Would be an interesting
>problem to compute.  JGD]

Well, its a start :-)

>All engineering books I have read agre that to get max. HP from a 
>supercharged engine, lower the compression ratio, and up the boost.

>[Probably true but that does not address driveability. 

Agreed, low comp. is bad for driveability, only helping at max. boost

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 13:38:52 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Dave Williams wrote
> 
>  I finally tracked PRD back down.  They're still around and making CF
> pushrods.  Unfortunately, they prices have gone up quite a bit since
> they've moved.  They're wanting $180 for a set of 5/16 rods, $220 per
> set of 3/8, and $336 per set of 7/16.
> 
>  Oddly, they don't make any mention of the special plastic guide plates,
> which are presumably no longer considered necessary.
> 
>  I still like the idea of lightening the valvetrain, but this is a bit
> on the expensive side for what is basically an arrow shaft with a couple
> of ball ends.  Maybe I'll save my money and just put some pinstripe tape
> all over the taillights...

$336 buys a lot of pin stripe tape.  Ever think about a functional hood
scoop, or spoiler.  Maybe even a complete ground effects package.  Then
you could have the pin striping painted on by someone like Butch who
painted my old 1963 Bel Aire.  Or if your looking for power you could
change to a gear driven cam, or perhaps a set of 14:1 buckets, etc.

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 13:51:35 1993
Subject: Request for FAQ entries
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Greetings 'rodders.

I have volunteered to compile a FAQ for this group but there's only
so much I can do alone.  If anyone has anything they consider to be
a frequently asked question, please e-mail me and I'll compile them
into the FAQ file.  Don't forget to put the answer in the mail as I
will not know enough about everything (anything?) to do it myself.

Mail me with any entries at: etljmme@etlxd20.ericsson.se
                      or at: etljmme@etlxd30.ericsson.se

Many thanks to you all (as I will no doubt learn alot in the process),

Jim.

----------
Posted by: emory!etlxd20.ericsson.se!etljmme (Jim)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 13:56:47 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Dennis replies
> Dave Williams wrote
> -> I wrote 
> 
> -> Well the same story applied to McClarians, and Chaporales with Chevey
> -> engines who were not included in the listing either.  And if you
> -> added them with the Ford GT's it would probably drop many cars down.
> 
>  Ford actually sold some GT40s as street cars.  Bruce McLaren built
> *one* M6BGT for street use.  Jim Hall has, to the best of my knowlege,
> never built a street Chapparal.

If I recall the old european racing laws a certain number of them had to 
be available to the public to race in races like LeMann's.  And the 
McClerean's and Chapparels did race at LeMann's.
> 
>  BTW, the McLarens usually came set up for the small block *Oldsmobile*
> motor.  Most were either special-ordered with Chevrolet engines, or were
> converted after delivery, according to my copy of "The Racing Sports
> Car."
>                                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 14:02:40 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List
> 
> 
>  If an engine is run for a long time under detonation, it'll eventually
> pound the big ends out of round.  If it has been run without oil
> pressure the bearing shells may spin.  If either happens, the rebuilder
> takes a little metal off the cap, then rebores the rod round.

I got my Roundel just the other day...  seems the new BMW hi-po motor
has the cap located by a deliberate fracture, now that's intense!

First it's disposable lighters, now con-rods.  What's the world coming to? :-)

[This technique is actually very old and works real well.  McCulloch has
done this since at least the 60s on their chain saw and kart engines.  
In their case, they run needle bearings directly on the hardened rod.
They bore the hole and then fracture the rod at a built in defect.
The rather large grains in the metal makes the cap align perfectly.  JGD]

DAVE (johnson@wrs.com) Internet Z-Club member #51

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 14:33:30 1993
Subject: Wheel Bolt Pattern List   (2)                version 93.16.02
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


5 on 115mm
        Buick - Century, Electra, LeSabre, Regal, Riviera (some) '83-'89
        Cadillac - Allante, most others '84-'89
        Chevrolet - Celebrity '85-'89
        Oldsmobile - Regency, Ciera, Cutlass, Delta 88 '84-'89
        Pontiac - 6000 '83-'89
                - Bonneville, Grand Am '86-'89


5 on 120mm   (4.72)
        BMW 2500, 2800, 3.0, 520, 530, 630, 730
        BMW - all 5 bolt to '89


5 on 130mm
        Porsche - 911, 912, 944 to '89


4 Bolt Wheels --------------------------------------------------------

4 on 3-3/4
        Austin Marina
        Triumph Spitfire, TR7
        Lotus


4 on 98mm  (3.858)
        Alfa Romeo Alfetta
        FIAT
        Lancia


4 on 100mm  (3.93)
        Acura - Integra   to '89
        Audi - most models  to '89
        Audi Fox
        BMW 1600, 2002
        BMW - 2002, 300-series  to '89
        Chevy - Chevette  '76-'87
              - Spectrum, Nova  '80-'89
        Dodge - Omni, Rampage, Aries, 024 '79-'85
              - Charger, Daytona (FWD)  '82-'89
        Honda - all (except '76-'80 Accord, Civic)  to '89
        Isuzu - Impulse, I-Mark  to '89
        Nissan - Pulsar, Sentra  '87-'89
        Opel Kadett
        Plymouth - Horizon, TC3, Reliant, Voyager '78-'89
        Renault - all to '89
        Toyota - Celica, MR2, Tercel '86-'89
        VW - Dasher, Fox, Jetta, Rabbit, Scirocco  to '89


4 on 4
        Austin-Healey Sprite
        Crosley - all '39-'52
        MG Midget
        Jensen Healey
        Opel Manta, Kadette
        GM L-body
             Buick Skyhawk '75-'81
             Chevrolet Vega, Monza '71-'81
             Pontiac Sunbird, Astre '76-'81
             Oldsmobile Starfire '75-'81


4 on 4-1/4     (4 on 108 mm)
        Alfa Romeo (exc. Alfetta)
        Ford - Fairmont '78-'86
             - Mustang 4-bolt patterns '74-'93
             - T-Bird '80-'88
             - Pinto '71-'80
             - Fiesta '78-'85
             - Escort  all (RWD and FWD)
             - Cortina all
             - Taurus, Tempo, EXP to '89
             - German-built Capri I, II, III '69-'8?
        Mercury - Capri '71-'88
             - Cougar '79-'88
             - Merkur, Topaz, Lynx '80-'89
             - Zephyr '78-'86
        Plymouth Cricket
        Porsche - 924 '77-'84
        Sunbeam - Tiger, Alpine '65-'70


4 on 110mm (4.33)
        Mazda - RX2, RX3, RX4, GLC, 626, P.U. '71-'82
              - RX7 to '85

4 on 4-1/2
        Acura - Legend '86-'89
        Buick - Special '61-'63
        Chevrolet
            Corvair all 4-bolt
            Chevy II  all 4-bolt
            Sprint '85-'87
            Nova ('61-'70)
        Datsun/Nissan - most models to '89
        Dodge Colt '79-'88
        Dodge Colt (early)
        Ford
            Mustang all '65-'68 4-bolt
            Falcon, Maverick, Granada all 4-bolt
        Mazda - 626, RX7 '83-'87  ????
        MGA, MGB, MGC
        Olds - F-85 '61-'63
        Plymouth - Arrow, Sapporo '79-'88
        SAAB all      ???
        SAAB - 900 to '87
        Toyota - most exc. MR2 and P.U. to '89
        Triumph TR 1..6


4 on 110mm (4.724)
        Honda


4 on 130mm (5.11)
        Porsche - 914 '71-'82
        VW Beetle, 411, 412, 1500 Sedan, Transporter/Vanagon


** END OF FILE **
                                                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 14:41:42 1993
Subject: Wheel Bolt Pattern List   (1)                version 93.16.02
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


first draft:    dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us    (Dave Williams)
                      (circa 1985-ish, from American Racing catalog)
as amended by:  bill@ecn.purdue.edu              (Bill Drake)
contributors:   none so far

        This list merges the ones posted by Dave Williams and Bill Drake
        on the hotrod mailing list.  Additions and corrections are
        welcome.  I know there are some inconsistencies, but I have
        left them in rather than trying to second-guess things.
        Please send comments to dave.williams@chaos.lrk.ar.us.

========================================================================
6 Bolt Wheels ----------------------------------------------------------

6 on 5-1/2"
        Chevrolet - all to '48
        Chevy/GMC - P.U., van to '70
                  - 4x4 P.U., Blazer '71-'89
                  - LUV 2WD '72-'84
        Dodge - D-50, Ram 50 P.U. '79-'87
        Ford - Courier PU '72-'84
        Mazda - P.U. '72-'89
        Nissan/Datsun - P.U.. Pathfinder '67-'89
        Toyota - SR5, 4WD P.U., Landcruiser, 4-Runner (some) to '89


5 Bolt Wheels ----------------------------------------------------------

5 on 4
        64-69  Mopar "A" 13"
        65-76  Mopar "A" 14"
        Dodge - Aspen, Dart, Demon, Swinger (w/o discs) '63-'72
        Plymouth - Barracuda, Duster, Valiant (w/o discs) '61-'74


5 on 4-1/4
        Volvo 140, 164 15"
        Volvo - all to '89
        Ford - T-Bird '89


5 on 4-1/2    (114.3 mm)
        AMC Gremlin, Hornet, Pacer, Javelin, Matator, AMX
        AMC - most models (exc. Jeep) '40-'89
        Chrysler/DeSoto - all full size RWD cars (exc. Imperial) '37-'89
        Datsun/Nissan - 1600-2000 '65-'73
                      - 300ZX, 200SX V6 (some) to '89
        Dodge van
        Dodge 1/2 ton PU
        Dodge - all full size cars & P.U.'s '37-'89
              - Dart, Demon, Swinger '73-'80
        Ford 1/2 ton van
        Ford Granada, Monarch
        Ford - All full size cars '49-'72; '79-'85
             - Fairlane '62-'79
             - T-Bird '55-'71; '77-'79
             - Mustang (5-bolt) '65-'73
             - Maverick 5-bolt all
             - Mustang SVO '85-'86
             - Ranchero '68-'84
             - Aerostar, Probe, Bronco II/Ranger to '89
        Hudson - all '48-'56
        Lincoln - all '70-'72; '80-'89
        Mazda - RX7 Turbo, 626, 929, MX6 '86-'89
        Mercury - all full size cars '52-'54; '61-'72; '79-'85
                - Cougar '67-'79
        Mopar '73-up "A" body
        Plymouth - all full size cars '37-'89
                 - Barracuda '70-'74
                 - Duster, Valiant, Volare '73-'80
        Pontiac - Tempest, LeMans '61-'63
        Studebaker - all '51-'66
        Toyota Crown, Hilux PU
        Toyota - 2WD P.U. '69-'89
               - Supra Turbo '86-'89
        Volvo 122, 1800


5 on 4-3/4
        Buick - Regal, Century, Special (most mid-size) '64-'80's
        Chevy van
        Chevrolet - all (exc as noted elsewhere) '49-'89
        Corvette all
        Corvair '65-'69 5-bolt
        GM compact and midsize
        Oldsmobile - 442, Cutlass, F-85, Toronado
                     (most mid-size) '60's-'80's
        Pontiac - GTO, LeMans, Firebird, Grand Prix
                  (mid size) '64-'80's

5 on 5
        Austin-Healy 3000
        Buick LeSabre, Centurion, Riviera, Electra
        Buick - Electra, LeSabre, Riviera, (most full-size) '35-'87
        Cadillac - DeVille, Fleetwood '38-'89
                 - SeVille '77-'79
        Chevrolet 3/4 ton vans
        Chevrolet - Bel Air, Biscayne, Impala, Caprice, Kingswood
'71-'76
                  - above w/HD package wagons '77-'89
                  - Blazer 2WD '71-'83
        Chrysler - Imperial '67-'71
        Ford, LTD '73-'75
        Ford - T-Bird '72-'76
             - Galaxie, LTD, Custom '73-'78
        Lincoln - all (exc Versailles) '60-'67; '73-'79
        Mercury - all '55-'60
                - Cougar, XR7 '73-'77
        Oldsmobile - all full size RWD '40-'87
        Packard - all '51-'55
        Pontiac - all full size RWD '40-'86
        Rover


5 on 5-1/2
        AMC - Jeep (5 bolt) '42-'89
        Chrysler - 8 cyl. & wagon '46-'55
                 - Imperial '54-'66
        Ford 2 ton van
        Ford Bronco, F100
        Ford - all '28-'48
             - full size P.U., van, Bronco '49-'89
        International Scout, Travelall
        Lincoln - all '52-'60
        Mercury - all '39-'51
        Suzuki - Samurai '86-'89


5 on 100mm
        Buick - Century, Skylark, Skyhawk FWD '79-'87
              - LeSabre, Riviera, Somerset '85-'88
        Chevrolet - Beretta, Citation, Cavalier, Celebrity, Corsica
                    '80-'89
        Chrysler - Laser, Lebaron '85-'87
        Dodge - Daytona, Aries, Charger, Lancer, Caravan '85-'89
        Oldsmobile - Calais, Ciera, FWD '82-'87
                   - Firenza, Omega FWD '79-'86
        Plymouth - Sundance '87-'89
        Pontiac - 6000, Grand Am, J2000, Sunbird, etc. FWD '82-'87
                 - Fiero '82-'88


5 on 112mm   (4.409)
        Audi - 5000 Turbo, Quattro '86-'87
        Mazda - RX7 GSL '86-'87
        Mercedes - all '77-'89
        VW - Transporter, Vanagon '71-'89

(continued)
                                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 14:46:42 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> 
>  I finally tracked PRD back down.  They're still around and making CF
> pushrods.  Unfortunately, they prices have gone up quite a bit since
> they've moved.  They're wanting $180 for a set of 5/16 rods, $220 per
> set of 3/8, and $336 per set of 7/16.
> 
>  I still like the idea of lightening the valvetrain, but this is a bit
> on the expensive side for what is basically an arrow shaft with a couple
> of ball ends.  Maybe I'll save my money and just put some pinstripe tape
> all over the taillights...

I'd like to see how they do the carbon fiber pushrods...  making
a carbon fiber rod seems really simple at face value, but it takes
us about two hours to lay up one carbon fiber pullrod (suspension) for our
FOrmula-SAE cars, and about 1 out of 3 ends up in the trashcan.  How much
load does a pushrod take, btw?  Carbon fiber isn't really great in
compression.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 17:55:47 1993
Subject: Re: lifter resurfacing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>  It looks like I'm going to have to mock up something with one of the
> spare engine blocks, a cam, and an electric motor to drive it.  I have
> serious doubts the lifter rotates at all in normal use.  The friction in
> the pushrod ends would tend to keep it straight.  Rather than cudgeling
> my brains trying to work out a theory, I'll cheap out and just run a
> test motor up and see.   


I saw a cut-away motor at the Boston Science Museum (I think that's where
it was). Part of the block was cut away and you could turn the engine
over using an electric motor. I was curious to see how much the lifters
would turn, and I was surprised to find that they were turning about
45 degrees each time they were lifted. Of course things may be different
when the motor is actually running. 

John
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
John H. Hartman				
Graduate Student, UCB Sprite project	
jhh@sprite.berkeley.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!sprite.Berkeley.EDU!jhh (John H. Hartman)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 18:04:44 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> >I have always theorized that the high back pressure is helpful in
> >reducing conrod loading at high revs. Comments?
> >[Well, a 4" dia piston with 12 psi of pressure has about 150 lbs 
> >of pressure on it.  Does that help?  Dunno.  Would be an interesting
> >problem to compute.  JGD]
> Well, its a start :-)

Assuming a 4" stroke and 4000rpm, the piston experiences between 0 and 50g's
of acceleration. How much does a 4" piston weigh? 150lbf is 
"reasonably significant" if the piston is in the region of 3 lb mass...


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 18:18:11 1993
Subject: Re: Junkyards!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I love the idea of junkyard tours.  Are any of these in eastern PA?
I'm in the North Jersey SRA and suspect our guys would love to do this.

Cheers...

Frank Carey at Bell Labs            1937 Ford 400/350

----------
Posted by: emory!arch2.att.com!fec
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 18:22:22 1993
Subject: oops...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I wrote that for a 4" throw at 4000rpm you get 0 to 50 g's, but that's
wrong, it's actually - to 25 g's. This means that for a piston that weighs
less than about 7 pounds, the 150lb of force from the exhaust pressure will
make quite a significant difference.


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 18:28:44 1993
Subject: IROC El Camino kit?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Someone was telling me about a kit to put a Camaro front-end on an El Camino.
I am planning to build an IROC-Z sedan delivery from a '78-84 GM mid-size
station wagon and a Camaro front end.  I bought the wagon and have been
pricing Camaro front ends ($$$ for good sheet metal).  I think that this
kit is fiberglass and that the company is out of Tennessee.  Anybody here
know any more? (name, address, price of kit?)

----------
Posted by: emory!LIMS01.LERC.NASA.GOV!TPCLIFF
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 18:53:10 1993
Subject: Olds 403 questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


There was some discussion about the Olds 403 engine (1977-9).  I have a
chance to get one for a project car that already has an Olds 350 in it.
I am looking for comments/insights/impressions as to the 403's
reliability and performance (stock).  Any hot rod tips for this engine
(interesting parts, etc.)

[I know that the 403 drops into directly in place of the 350; that's
why I am interested.]

Thanks

----------
Posted by: emory!LIMS01.LERC.NASA.GOV!TPCLIFF
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 18:58:25 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> $336 buys a lot of pin stripe tape.  Ever think about a functional
-> hood scoop, or spoiler.  Maybe even a complete ground effects
-> package.  Then you could have the pin striping painted on by someone
-> like Butch who painted my old 1963 Bel Aire.

 That was just another snide dig at the purple-plastic-hubcap crowd.
Around here (and presumably other places) the hot, Hot, HOT thing is to
put tape all over the taillights.  Zowie.  I'm so impressed I might fall
asleep.

 Back inna old days they would have been subjects of ridicule.  Nowadays
they call them hot rodders.  Go figure.

 I always lusted for a real Von Dutch pinstripe job though, but he died
a couple of years ago.  I can just visualize it a few decades from now -
yet generic art gallery, paintings on the walls, and an authentic Von
Dutch fire engine or '53 Merc on a pedestal.  He supposedly striped some
fire engines for the city of Phoenix.  I hope they're smart enough to
keep them.
                                                                                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 19:02:49 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> >  Ford actually sold some GT40s as street cars.  Bruce McLaren built
-> > *one* M6BGT for street use.  Jim Hall has, to the best of my
-> knowlege, > never built a street Chapparal.

> If I recall the old european racing laws a certain number of them had
> to be available to the public to race in races like LeMann's.  And
> the McClerean's and Chapparels did race at LeMann's.

 The GT40s raced in Production class.  The McLarens etc. raced in Sports
Racing or Sports Prototype class, whatever it was.  There were probably
more completed GT40s than all the McLaren models put together.

 Porsche's 917 debuted in the racer class, then when Porsche completed
enough of them they moved to the production car class.  Porsche
originally didn't intend to sell any of the 917s - they built the extras
to satisfy the homologation rules, sold one or two to crazoids who were
willing to cough up enough money to support a small third world country,
and retired the rest as "garage queens" for spares.  Most of those were
eventually sold to wealthy Europeans who detuned them for club racing or
(in some races) licensed them as actual street cars.
                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 17 19:08:22 1993
Subject: Water Injection, Intercooler Sprays
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


        I'm not sure if this topic was brought up before on this mailing
list, but I was wondering what experiences people have been having with
intake system Water Injection Systems, and/or Intercooler External Sprays.
I was looking at using the Spearco's systems to decrease my octane require-
ments in my turbo car.

        I know that water injection is a fairly common
thing, but what about the effectiveness of the intercooler sprayer, which
sprays water on the outside (intake side) of the intercooler to help
the cooling ability as the water evaporates.

        JOHN RUNNIONator

----------
Posted by: emory!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jlrg0421
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 01:27:21 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In article <0c3sj7f@dixie.com> johnson@wrs.com writes:
>I got my Roundel just the other day...  seems the new BMW hi-po motor
>has the cap located by a deliberate fracture, now that's intense!

>[This technique is actually very old and works real well.  McCulloch has
>done this since at least the 60s on their chain saw and kart engines.
> ... JGD]

Ford has also picked up this technique for (at least some versions of)
the new modular V8s.  Good to see that they're in good company.

 -- Chuck Fry  Chucko@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov!chucko (Chuck Fry)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 01:33:37 1993
Subject: Re: Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


> 
> In article <1lrfmvINNja@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov> you write:
> > 
> >         I am looking for a good, lightweight means of intercooling a
> >         supercharged (roots type) gas dragster.  A typical intercooler
> >         for a blown V8 sits between the supercharger and the intake
> >         manifold, the intercooler being nothing more than a small 
> >         radiator with water circulating through it.  This is great
> >         except for the fact that water = weight, and in drag racing
> >         weight = slow.  My idea is to use some type of compressed
> >         gas ( nitrogen, C02, etc..) instead of water.  The gas would
> >         flow through the intercooler cooling the incoming air/fuel
> >         mixture, and then out into the atmosphere.  The gas would 
> >         need to be non-toxic.  The compressed gas tank would only     
> >         need to hold about a 10-15 second charge.  Does this sound
> >         feasable???  How much gas at what psi would I need to do
> >         the same job as water??? 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >                         Chris Demke
> >                         Sun Microsystems
> >                         Chris.Demke@west.sun.com
> > 

> If my guess is correct, you are looking for a
> fairly low profile manifold to fit in place of the intercooler's radiator, but
> run CO2 (or a like gas) thru it instead of water.

   Correct.

> 	If you want only a 10 to 15 second charge for the run, this would mean you
> would have to open a valve before you started your pass.  Actually, you would
> probably want to open it before you staged in order to get the CO2 intercooler
> at operating temp.  If this isn't done, it would cool off during the run.  This
> could cause inconsistent runs.  Opening of a valve could be done by a crew

	I agree with starting the intercooler just before staging.  I would 
	start AND stop the gas flow with an air solenoid switch, similiar to
	those used for shifting a LENCO transmission.  That way the driver
	could turn the intercooler on and off from inside the car.

>  The idea of blowing the gas out into the
> atmosphere is good, but it would have to go thru a reducer so that enough would
> be retained in the manifold to cool it.  After all of this, you still would have
> to carry a decent amount of gas.  The only way to shut it off after the run is
> to have it run out of gas (nobody at end of track.)  Then, I'm not sure if the
> sanctioning body would appreciate the gas just blowing out of a manifold.  

	Do you think that they would mind having nitrogen or C02 exhaust??
	Both are already a part of the atmosphere.  It wuld be like adding
	a cup of water to the ocean!!

> 	There are some other factors too.  What kind of gas.  How do I plumb it?  When
> do I turn it on?  How thick sould the manifold be?  How do I internally plumb
> the manifold (intercooler).

	These are the basic questions that I need answered.  I'm still not even
	sure that the escaping gas would cool things off as well as water.

> 	If I were to want an intercooler for drag racing, my answer would be simple. 
> Nitrous.  There is more than one way to look at NO2.  Most people see it as a

	Nitrous is out of the question.  The class we are running in is 
	called Top Gas West.  It's a loose organization of racers on the
	west coast.  The rules are simple: supercharged OR turbocharged
	OR nitrous injection, no combinations.  Unlimited cubic inches,
	no weight restrictions, draster or funny car or door slammer.
	Basically a 'run what you brung' class as long as the main fuel is 
	gasoline.  I believe the E.T. record is currently 6.69 sec set
	by a blown 426 Hemi.  A popular combination is to take an A/D dragster
	and add nitrous.
	  I don't think that anyone pays much attention to intercooling
	supercharged engines because it is illegal in NHRA racing.  But
	in Top Gas West there is no such rule!!


> 	If you want more info, or an explanation in more detail, write me: 
> my address is munson1@iastate.edu
> 
> 					Scott 
> 
			
			Chris Demke
			Chris.Demke@west.sun.com

----------
Posted by: emory!sundude.JPL.NASA.GOV!chris (Chris Demke)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 01:38:45 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Jonathan Lusky writes:

> I'd like to see how they do the carbon fiber pushrods...  making
> a carbon fiber rod seems really simple at face value, but it takes
> us about two hours to lay up one carbon fiber pullrod (suspension) for our
> FOrmula-SAE cars, and about 1 out of 3 ends up in the trashcan.  How much
> load does a pushrod take, btw?  Carbon fiber isn't really great in
> compression.

That's a bunch of hooey.  I'm working on a project right now
where we are using carbon fiber in an extremely compression
dominated situation.  Average strengths for the carbon fiber
/toughened epoxy system we are using are around 180 ksi.
Granted there are a few materials which are better than this, and
strengths of the same material in tension are over 300 ksi.
But I would hardly call 180ksi compression strength "not too
great".

I would be interested to see how they're making these rods.
If they are even remotely affordable then they are probably
using some kind of quick process which would result in quality
that will provide performance nowhere near the stuff I mentioned.

Steve
--
 Steve Andersen  DoD #0239                               andersen@me.udel.edu
 (302) 832-0136                                     andersen@zr1.ccm.udel.edu
 1992 Ducati 907 I.E.                                      1987 Yamaha SRX250
 "Life is simply a consequence of the complexities of carbon chemistry..."





----------
Posted by: Steve Andersen 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 01:44:14 1993
Subject: Optimum ignition timing - REPOST
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

John Gwynne on The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
:  writes:
: 
: >> Assuming there is no detonation, is more ignition advance
: >> always better for power?
: >
: >Not necessarily, after a certain point (called MBT, Minimum advance
: >for Best Torque), peak combustion temperature will start rising sharply
: >and little if any additional performance will be seen.
: 
[...]
: I had thought that one could establish the _optimal_ mechanical advance curve
: by increasing the advance (ie. changing springs, weights, and intial timing)
: with the vacuum advance disabled to the point "just before knocking" under all
: acceleration conditions in high gear. After which, the vacuum advance could be
: set under cruise conditions with an adjustable vacuum unit. How close to MBT
: will this method result in, and is there a better way that doesn't require a
: dynamometer?

I too would like to know what you net wizards think.  I am in the process of
tuning the SB 350 in my truck for optimum performance and mileage.  I have
installed a somewhat "lumpy" cam that can stand a bit more ignition advance
than the factory setting.  I have set it by ear at this point, but I want to
get the most torque for my fuel $$s.

In a previous post on this thread it was mentioned that there may be a fair
amount of timing advance between MBT and detonation.

How much of a timing "gap" is there between MBT and detonation??  If they are
*very* close, I will consider them the same for my purposes.

Would very much appreciate any thought you may have.

DER

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Don Robinson    (602) 752-6466     Internet:  vlsiphx!donr@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
   ** Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, **
   ** my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.   **
----------
Posted by: emory!marble.UUCP!donr (Don Robinson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 01:49:17 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article <=l2s4k@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com writes...
> 
>  writes
> on Date: Thu, 11 Feb 93 21:17 EST
> 
>(stuff deleted)
> 
>>Although you can pick up a 427 block for a relatively reasonable price, (I
>>saw one at a swap meet for $150, and boy did I *want* to pick it up.  Space
>>limitations and physical strength sort of got in the way :( )
>>the cammer *heads* are, well, quite expensive.  You may be able to get away
>>with duping someone into thinking their side-oiler can be gotten elsewhere
>>"cheap", but anyone with one or more SOHC heads *knows* what they're worth.
> 
>427so stuff is rare and expensive here in B.C., Canada, and in fact I'm looking
>for one this year - any suggestions?  

If you find yourself in the states, check out a few swap meets.  I only
know of the ones near Cleveland, OH.  There's generally a "super Ford
swap meet" in Columbus, OH, in the spring - usually around April.  I've seen
two rebuilt cammers for sale at swap meets - they seem to run at about the
$12,000 mark.  I believe this is a deal, since, if I'm not mistaken, they
were about $6,000 over-the-counter in the mid '60's.  Consider that a 'vette
was about $4,000 back then, look what it costs now :-(
> 
>Russell King
> 
>----------
>Posted by: "Russell M. King, TRIUMF, (604)222-1047x311" 


Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"

						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!venus.lerc.nasa.gov!edwlt12 (Mike Jamison (ADF))
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 01:55:23 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>-> >  Ford actually sold some GT40s as street cars.  Bruce McLaren built
>-> > *one* M6BGT for street use.  Jim Hall has, to the best of my
>-> knowlege, > never built a street Chapparal.
>
>> If I recall the old european racing laws a certain number of them had
>> to be available to the public to race in races like LeMann's.  And
>> the McClerean's and Chapparels did race at LeMann's.
>
> The GT40s raced in Production class.  The McLarens etc. raced in Sports
>Racing or Sports Prototype class, whatever it was.  There were probably
>more completed GT40s than all the McLaren models put together.
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
> 

A gentleman in my home town of Pascagoula, MS, collects Fords.  Last time I
talked with him (1980 or so) he had two GT350 Mustangs, a GT500 Mustang, a
289 Cobra, a 427 Cobra (the 425 hp dual quad one), and a GT40.  He told me
that there were seven (7) left in the world at that time, and knew the
serial numbers and owner's names of each.  One was at the Indy museum, but
I don't remember who had the other five.  Every now and then, late, late at
night, he would take the GT40 for a spin on Interstate 10.  It had a 302
with four Weber two barrels.  He said it had a better top end but the 427
Cobra was faster to 120 mph.  Don't know what his collection includes
nowadays.
Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

----------
Posted by: emory!helix.nih.gov!ijames
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 07:46:28 1993
Subject: Re: How to detect/prevent le
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies) writes:
"[Now THAT brings back another old memory.  (Oh gawd, another one)  Back when
"I was running heavy equipment for the gummit, my most frequent "hotrod" was
"a Cat 6 wheel pan (earthmover).
[]
"Ahh, the good old days....  And yes, we DID dragrace these things.
"Trick was dinking with the injection unit to bypass the govenor. JGD]

so what did they do in the quarter?  enquiring minds want to know...

[Oh, probably about 10 minutes :-)  These races were usually a combination
of top speed runs and chicken.  The latter because there was the lake at
the end of the run and the guy who shut off and dumped the pan last (can
you say brake?) won.  Yes, I've scooped water :-)  Then there was the 
F*ck-up Contest.  We had a $500 pool to be paid to whomever screwed up
the worst (this WAS a union job, after all).  The guy that won it
was a 400 lb black ex-football player we called "Big'un"  Big'un would
go by the grease rack every day and find the biggest, whitest rag in
the rag bin and tuck it under his hardhat to shield his neck.  Whizzing
away on his pan, he looked like a huge, black Lawrence of Arabia.  Anyway,
he won by running a pan full of dirt off in the lake.  Those pans would
do about 60 mph wide open.  He must have hydroplaned an eight of a mile 
before sinking.  I can still see that huge white towel and the huge-er
toothy grin as he slowly went down with the ship :-)  He didn't even
get fired.  JGD]

-- 

		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnews.cb.att.com!adh (andrew.d.hay)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 07:52:05 1993
Subject: Re: Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

An unusual idea someone is considering of supercooling a 6/71 type
blower.  They discussed gas verses liquid.  Well the effeciency
of liquid is much greater compared to gases when it come to absorbing 
your unwanted heat.  However I would consider a system like freon
in air conditioners. 

The liquid could be priorly compressed into a can and then released
into the cooler causing prety cool temperatures.  Then it could be 
further exhausted into a chamber.  After the run the contents of the 
chamber could be recompressed and recycled.

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 07:56:41 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> > 
> >>Although you can pick up a 427 block for a relatively reasonable price, (I
> >>saw one at a swap meet for $150, and boy did I *want* to pick it up.  
> 
> If you find yourself in the states, check out a few swap meets.  I only
> know of the ones near Cleveland, OH.  There's generally a "super Ford
> swap meet" in Columbus, OH, in the spring - usually around April.  I've seen
> two rebuilt cammers for sale at swap meets - they seem to run at about the
> $12,000 mark.  I believe this is a deal, since, if I'm not mistaken, they
> were about $6,000 over-the-counter in the mid '60's.  Consider that a 'vette
> was about $4,000 back then, look what it costs now :-(

I'm not sure on how F.O.R.D. is on this but I'd try piecing one out directly
from them if you have the old part numbers.  I have heard that people are
still buying new HEMI engines from Crysler in parts.  Perhaps F.O.R.D. has
the same thing going.
 
dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 08:01:31 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List
> 
> A gentleman in my home town of Pascagoula, MS, collects Fords.  Last time I
> talked with him (1980 or so) he had two GT350 Mustangs, a GT500 Mustang, a
> 289 Cobra, a 427 Cobra (the 425 hp dual quad one), and a GT40.  He told me
> that there were seven (7) left in the world at that time, and knew the
> serial numbers and owner's names of each.  One was at the Indy museum, but
> I don't remember who had the other five.  Every now and then, late, late at
> night, he would take the GT40 for a spin on Interstate 10.  It had a 302
> with four Weber two barrels.  He said it had a better top end but the 427
> Cobra was faster to 120 mph.  Don't know what his collection includes
> nowadays.
> Carl Ijames     ijames@helix.nih.gov

I may be wrong, but in some rag about 5 years ago there was a story about
the GT-40. On the cover was a severe z-axis view of about 30 GT-40's parked
on a racetrack in a pseudo pole lineup.  In the article it mentioned that
not one of them would command less than a $1.5 mil price tag, so I doubt
any of them were repro's.  If someone has the article, they could fill in
some more of the details.  I do remember, however, thinking how ugly the
seats looked upoulstered in that brass grommet embossed velour :-)

DAVE (johnson@wrs.com) Internet Z-Club member #51

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 08:06:38 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> 
> Jonathan Lusky writes:
> 
> > I'd like to see how they do the carbon fiber pushrods...  making
> > a carbon fiber rod seems really simple at face value, but it takes
> > us about two hours to lay up one carbon fiber pullrod (suspension) for our
> > FOrmula-SAE cars, and about 1 out of 3 ends up in the trashcan.  How much
> > load does a pushrod take, btw?  Carbon fiber isn't really great in
> > compression.
> 
> That's a bunch of hooey.  I'm working on a project right now
> where we are using carbon fiber in an extremely compression
> dominated situation.  Average strengths for the carbon fiber
> /toughened epoxy system we are using are around 180 ksi.
> Granted there are a few materials which are better than this, and
> strengths of the same material in tension are over 300 ksi.
> But I would hardly call 180ksi compression strength "not too
> great".
> 
> I would be interested to see how they're making these rods.
> If they are even remotely affordable then they are probably
> using some kind of quick process which would result in quality
> that will provide performance nowhere near the stuff I mentioned.

Guess I need to keep my over generalizing to r.a.t...
The compression strength of carbon fiber is excellent, but that
wasn't what I was getting at.  Buckling is my main concern. It seems that 
you can orient your layers of fiber to increase your Pcr, but in my experience
that is much easier said than done.  I wish I knew how to describe it
mathmatically, I might understand it better.  My mechanics of materials
book doesn't ever mention composite columns (and it seems pretty
intuitive to me that Pcr=pi^2EI/l^2 isn't going to work for composites,
especially with fibers oriented in more than one "direction").
Anyway, I'd sure like to see how they make those push rods.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 13:28:36 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>I got my Roundel just the other day...  seems the new BMW hi-po motor
>has the cap located by a deliberate fracture, now that's intense!

>First it's disposable lighters, now con-rods.  What's the world coming to? :-)

>[This technique is actually very old and works real well.  McCulloch has
>done this since at least the 60s on their chain saw and kart engines.  
>In their case, they run needle bearings directly on the hardened rod.
>They bore the hole and then fracture the rod at a built in defect.
>The rather large grains in the metal makes the cap align perfectly.  JGD]

The new Ford 4.6 OHC V8 also uses cracked rods, made out of sintered iron.

JD
----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 13:51:51 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>> >I have always theorized that the high back pressure is helpful in
>> >reducing conrod loading at high revs. Comments?
>> >[Well, a 4" dia piston with 12 psi of pressure has about 150 lbs 
>> >of pressure on it.  Does that help?  Dunno.  Would be an interesting
>> >problem to compute.  JGD]
>> Well, its a start :-)

>Assuming a 4" stroke and 4000rpm, the piston experiences between 0 and 50g's
>of acceleration. How much does a 4" piston weigh? 150lbf is 
>"reasonably significant" if the piston is in the region of 3 lb mass...

I was actually refering to TDC on the exhaust stroke.

JD








----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 13:57:47 1993
Subject: Re: lifter resurfacing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

> Anyway, this gets back to something else.  I just overhauled a 3000
>mile old 350 Chevy.  The crown was gone from all the lifters.  Since I
>kept them in proper order I just popped them back in, but this made me
>wonder how necessary the spherical radius was.  Baud knows I've pulled
>out enough lifters which were cupped the other way.  I was sort of
>thinking about chucking a few in a lathe with a grinding fixture to see
>how a flat lifter would work when I found a photo of a lifter
>refinishing machine in an 1967 car repair manual.  Yep, some shops used
>to just grind used lifters back flat.  Presumably, not all cars use
>radiused lifters anyway.
>                                 
One of the local cam grinders, who I have used extensively and
happily has a lifter resurfacing rig made out of a small kwik-way
boring bar set at about an 88 degree angle over a custom made 
horizontal belt sander. Lifter is chucked in bar, powered up and hand fed
onto the belt. A mister is used for cooling. Work great, of course
only selected lifters are refaced but the product is OK. I have used a
lot of these, and, as far as I can remember, have never had to warrenty one.


Jim Davies

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 14:03:11 1993
Subject: Re:  IROC El Camino kit?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The first name that pops to mind when you mention Tennessee is Choo Choo Customs
in Chattanooga. They've been expanding thier product line recently. I wouldn't
be surprised to see something like this from them. They advertise in Hot Rod 
(I think I prefer "Warm Rod" as Dave Williams so eloquently put it).

----------
Posted by: emory!ctccummins.cummins.com!cr00jsa (J S Armfield)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 14:08:17 1993
Subject: btu's in gallon of gasoline?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Hey,
	How many btu's in a gallon of gasoline?
Tom Root

[Depends on the blend.  Looks like a pump gas will be around 19,500 btu/lb
while a racing fuel containing a lot of toluene will be closer to 17,000  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!marie.stat.uga.edu!tom (Tom Root)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 14:13:10 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



> Guess I need to keep my over generalizing to r.a.t...
> The compression strength of carbon fiber is excellent, but that
> wasn't what I was getting at.  Buckling is my main concern. It seems that 
> you can orient your layers of fiber to increase your Pcr, but in my experience
> that is much easier said than done.  I wish I knew how to describe it
> mathmatically, I might understand it better.  My mechanics of materials
> book doesn't ever mention composite columns (and it seems pretty
> intuitive to me that Pcr=pi^2EI/l^2 isn't going to work for composites,
> especially with fibers oriented in more than one "direction").
> Anyway, I'd sure like to see how they make those push rods.

Actually you're quite close.  For composites the critical buckling
load is: Pcr=n^2pi^2(bD11)/l^2  where n is the mode shape, and bD11
is the composite equivalent of the flexural rigidity (EI) for an isotropic
material.  D11 will be sensitive to the fiber orientations in the rod/beam.
For certain types of materials and orientations/loading conditions, 
transverse shear deformation can become important also.

I agree that a pushrod is most likely a buckling critical application,
and therefore requires different consideration than a strength critical
one.  This places even further constraints on manufacturing quality
as buckling is a defect sensitive "condition".

Based on a few quickie calculations it is appears pretty easy
to make a pushrod of reasonable dimensions to handle fairly
heavy spring loads.  I'm not very familar with the dimensions
of "real" pushrods however, but if you consider steel at 30Msi
stiffness, and a composite pushrod at say 15-20Msi, based on the
fact that the buckling load is more sensitive to dimensions
than stiffness (h is cubed in the calculation of D11 similar to
I=bh^3/12 for isotropic materials)  it would require a major
increase in diameter to be successful.  The increase in size
would also have little impact on weight savings as cf/epoxy is 
about 1/5 the density of steel.

My guess would be that the pushrods are probably pultruded
(similar to extrusion, but the fibers are used to pull the 
material through the die) in a basically unidirectional form
with perhaps some type of +/- 45 degree fabric surface
veil on the outside.  Can't think of another cheap/fast
method for doing this at the moment...

Steve




----------
Posted by: Steve Andersen 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 14:22:46 1993
Subject: Re: Olds 403 questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


>There was some discussion about the Olds 403 engine (1977-9).  I have a
>chance to get one for a project car that already has an Olds 350 in it.
>I am looking for comments/insights/impressions as to the 403's
>reliability and performance (stock).  Any hot rod tips for this engine
>(interesting parts, etc.)

>[I know that the 403 drops into directly in place of the 350; that's
>why I am interested.]

If you have the opportunity try to find a 455, it also bolts in place of the
350 as long as you have about an inch of extra clearance above and to the
side of the heads, it will give you a load more torque.  I have one myself
I'm trying to figure out what to do with...sell most likely...
If you take a bone stock '76 455 (such as mine) and add a non-emmisions
designed cam it should be good for about 250hp and 360ft/lb, if you want to
bunmp the compression from 8.5 back up to 10.25 it will be good for over
360hp and 500ft/lb....

-- 
===========================================================================
  "Bureaucracy is a challenge to be conquered with a righteous attitude,
     a tolerance for stupidity, and a bulldozer when necessary"
                  -- Peter's Laws

----------
Posted by: emory!rpi.edu!stiegg (Gregory Mark Stiegler)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 15:29:29 1993
Subject: Re: Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


If you are interested in cooling with liquid gases, check out liquid 
hydrogen.  Its heat capacity is off the scale ( if memory serves correctly )
compared to nearly everything else.  

Yeah, it can be made to explode, and its cold.  My thought is to make a 
low pressue liquid tank, and just vent the stuff.  I do not think I'd want
to try to burn it in the engine in a drag environment.  Just use it as
a cooling fluid, and vent it vertically.

The trick would be to keep the hydrogen exhaust at a non-explosive 
concentration.  I'm not sure how to do that.

GE makes a series of moderate sized generators that use hydrogen gas
as the cooling medium.  It was chosen because it has the highest heat
capacity and resulted in low drag.

	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

[GE and Westinghouse makes big 'uns with hydrogen cooling, if 1200 MWE is
big :-)  Pressurized to 75 psi too.  I still have a snapshot memory (like
the memory of where you were when Kennedy was killed) from when I was
attending the TVA College of Nuk'lar Knowledge and the instructor stood
us before the generator at Sequoyah NP in Chattanooga told us that whole
structure, almost as long as a football field, had 75 psi of hydrogen in
it.  Wow.

Back to hotrodding, this discussion is, I think, shortchanging good old 
fashioned water.  None of these gases has anywhere near the specific heat
of water.  Handling some of these cryrogenic liquids, avoiding hydrogen
enbrittlement, avoiding vibration stress fracture in the metal that would
be below the Nil Ductility Transition temperature would be major tasks
and carrying enough for a day of competition would be interesting.  Not
to mention expensive. The cooling requirements are not great.

Consider a 1000 cfm engine on an 8 second run.  It uses 133.3 cu feet of air.
Using my refrigeration handbook values of 0.075 lbs/cu ft at STP and
.24 btu/lb for air, that works out to 133.3 cu ft * .075 lbs/cu ft * .24 btu/lb
which equals 2.4 BTU.  Water has a specific heat of 1 btu/lb by definition
so 1 lb of water at, say 33 degrees could absorb this heat and only
rise 2.4 degrees. Double or triple this value to account for supercharging
energy input and cooling task is still trivial.

So for a heat exchanger large enough to fit under the blower, if you
simply fill it with freezing water, it will do a marvelous job of
cooling the intake charge.  The biggest problem would be to create
enough turbulence in the water to keep the heat transfer going.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 15:34:38 1993
Subject: 350 pistons & con rods and crank for sbc
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


does anyone have a set of 20 or 30 over 350 pistons and con rods they want
to part with?  new or (used in good condition would be ok).  i also need
a crank for the 350.  one turned or in usable shape without turning is
acceptable.  email with what you got.
dan stanger
dxs@evolving.com

----------
Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 16:30:35 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In article <0c3sj7f@dixie.com>, you write...
>The Hotrod List
>> 
>> 
>>  If an engine is run for a long time under detonation, it'll eventually
>> pound the big ends out of round.  If it has been run without oil
>> pressure the bearing shells may spin.  If either happens, the rebuilder
>> takes a little metal off the cap, then rebores the rod round.
> 
>I got my Roundel just the other day...  seems the new BMW hi-po motor
>has the cap located by a deliberate fracture, now that's intense!

Ford's new DOHC 4.6L V8 uses the same technique - it's in their Lincoln Mark
VIII brochure.  I think GM's Northstar V8 also employs this technique.

> 
>First it's disposable lighters, now con-rods.  What's the world coming to? :-)

Recyclable :)
----------
Posted by: emory!MARS.LERC.NASA.GOV!EDWLT12
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 21:27:44 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

... [connecting rod] cap located by a deliberate fracture ... ???

Will someone please elaborate of this?  What is the purpose of this
fracture, and where is it located?  What are the tradeoffs?

George Kulp

----------
Posted by: emory!gvlf9.VFL.Paramax.COM!georgek
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 21:32:06 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


> Based on a few quickie calculations it is appears pretty easy
> to make a pushrod of reasonable dimensions to handle fairly
> heavy spring loads.  I'm not very familar with the dimensions
> of "real" pushrods however, but if you consider steel at 30Msi
> stiffness, and a composite pushrod at say 15-20Msi, based on the
> fact that the buckling load is more sensitive to dimensions
> than stiffness (h is cubed in the calculation of D11 similar to
> I=bh^3/12 for isotropic materials)  it would require a major
> increase in diameter to be successful.      ^
                                              |
                                              |
                                             NOT
                                             
Ooops, sorry 'bout that one!!!!

Steve


----------
Posted by: Steve Andersen 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 18 21:37:23 1993
Subject: regrinding lifters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


what does a set of these cost and who does it?

----------
Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 00:57:49 1993
Subject: carburetors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 What happens if you use a vacuum secondary carb that is too big?

----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 01:02:10 1993
Subject: Pictures
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

                          SUBJECT:  Pictures
I have a couple pictures that I'd like to post to the GIF archive.  Problem is,
I can't remember where it is! 

I tried to e-mail Phil but it bounced, so if someone could point me to the
archive and kindly clue me into how to ftp my pictures up, I'd be much
obliged....

BTW, I am on the net (not a BBS), so this should be pretty straight forward ...
I just haven't tried this before.

Thanks!

-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National:  A *BOOST* of Buick Performance

[Gad, doesn't anyone read the mail headers? :_)  Who says they're boring?
The GIF site addresses are listed in each message mail header.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 01:07:02 1993
Subject: Mazda/Rotary/RX-7 mailing lists?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Are there any Mazda/Rotary mailing lists?  If so, would someone
please post or tell me how I can sign up?  My RX-7 will need a 
new clutch soon, and I wanted to get some ideas on a heavy-duty
replacement clutch.  Do people still use Centerforce DF clutches
these days?

Thanks,
Pat

Pat Kindell                        CX500T,KDX200,XL250R,RX-7
Convex Computer Corp.              DoD # 117  AMA # 613655
3000 Waterview Parkway             WFO # $*&%^_*&%!!
Richardson, TX  75083-3851         kindell@eugene.convex.com

------------------- Standard Disclaimer goes here -----------------

----------
Posted by: emory!convex.com!kindell (Pat Kindell)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 01:11:25 1993
Subject: TH350 - internal gears swapping ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



Has anyone changed the internal gears of the TH350 ?
I've read of such conversions - any experience there ?
BYe,werner

----------
Posted by: emory!cleveland.freenet.edu!bh725 (Werner J. Karl)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 01:16:14 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> I'd like to see how they do the carbon fiber pushrods...  making a
-> carbon fiber rod seems really simple at face value, but it takes us
-> about two hours to lay up one carbon fiber pullrod (suspension) for
-> our FOrmula-SAE cars, and about 1 out of 3 ends up in the trashcan.

 As far as I know, you can get standard wound tubing in various
diameters.  AO Smith makes CF tubing big enough to walk through.


-> How much load does a pushrod take, btw?  Carbon fiber isn't really
-> great in compression.

 You're looking at 210# open pressure in a standard small block Chevy
engine, about 550# in a dispose-a-motor Pro Stocker.  Figuring 550#
* 1.6 rocker (most drag motors don't use more than 1.6) you have 880
pounds in simple compression, plus a bending moment on the rocker end
from friction in the cup, but it's probably negligible.

 You could look in an engineering book for analysis of thin columns, but
you'd have to get the appropriate numbers from the composite vendor.

 Remember, machine-wound stuff is generally stronger than prepreg.
                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 01:55:06 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> >Assuming a 4" stroke and 4000rpm, the piston experiences between 0 and 50g's
> >of acceleration. How much does a 4" piston weigh? 150lbf is 
> >"reasonably significant" if the piston is in the region of 3 lb mass...
> I was actually refering to TDC on the exhaust stroke.

Right, and that is where the peak acceleration occurs. The 50g's is wrong, 
though, as I pointed out in a correction, it's 25g's.


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 01:59:06 1993
Subject: Re: carburetors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
>  What happens if you use a vacuum secondary carb that is too big?
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: James D Rosemary 

Poor low RPM driveability and economy.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 09:30:05 1993
Subject: Re: carburetors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> James D. Rosemary asks
> 
>  What happens if you use a vacuum secondary carb that is too big?
> 
Basicly you choke the engine with to much fuel.  
An old formula someone gave me once was this.

2.8E-4 x (cubic inches) x (max. rpm's) = cfm.

If you use a smaller carburator you will experience slight gains at lower
rpm's and loss at max. rpm's.  On the other hand an oversized carburator
will create looses on both the top and bottom end.

some rough calculations with this yield a 305 V-8 with a 500 cfm 2v should
peak around 5,700 rpms,  or the soame carburator on a 350 would peak at
5,000 rpm's.  Simularly a 454 engine with a 4500 series holly dominator
1150 cfm would need to run around 8,900 rpm's. (who would logicly run a pair
these?)  Then on a rat 500 cubic inch engine designed to crank 7,350 
rpm's a dominator 1050 would be ideal.

get the picture?

Dennis
    

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 09:36:17 1993
Subject: Re: Mazda/Rotary/RX-7 mailing lists?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> Are there any Mazda/Rotary mailing lists?  If so, would someone
> please post or tell me how I can sign up?  My RX-7 will need a 
> new clutch soon, and I wanted to get some ideas on a heavy-duty
> replacement clutch.  Do people still use Centerforce DF clutches
> these days?

rx7club@cbjjn.att.com

I use a stock Mazda clutch on my 82 12A.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 09:41:36 1993
Subject: Re: carburetors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>  What happens if you use a vacuum secondary carb that is too big?
>  
You get a hefty primary, and a secondary that needs even more vacume
to meter right.

DAVE (johnson@wrs.com) Internet Z-Club member #51

ps- Is there such a thing as 'too big' :-)

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 09:48:19 1993
Subject: Re: TH350 - internal gears swapping ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Karl J. Werner asked
> 
> Has anyone changed the internal gears of the TH350 ?
> I've read of such conversions - any experience there ?
> BYe,werner
> 
Well I just took a quick glance through some of my catalogs and found
loads of parts to build up TH350 transmissions for racing.  Valve bodies,
torque converters, bullet proof cases, shifters, etc.  However I DID NOT
see anything for changing the internal gear ratio's on TH 350's.  Only
gear sets for 3, 4, and 5 speed manual transmissions, power glides and
torque flites.  So probably not.

But it gives me an idea for people that don't want to run numerically
high rear ends on the street.  Say a TH350 with 3rd gear at 1:1, 2 nd
gear about 1.7 and 1st about 2.90.  Then a 3.23 rear axle ratio and 
a torque converter at 3,500 stall speed should work fine on an engine
with a 3,500 to 6,000 rpm range.  No you probably would not hit the traps 
in third gear.

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 09:53:26 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List
> 
> ... [connecting rod] cap located by a deliberate fracture ... ???
> 
> Will someone please elaborate of this?  What is the purpose of this
> fracture, and where is it located?  What are the tradeoffs?

John pretty much explained it...

Imagine a con-rod that is one peice (ie, the would-be cap is part of the
rod, and cannot be removed { kinda hard to put on the crank too :-)  }).
Now take the rod and break it where the would-be cap and rod would normally
be bolted together.  What you're left with is basically the same thing as
a regular rod, except that instead of a machined surface adjoining the cap
and rod ( subject to all tolerance, workmanship, problems { early-morning
assembly-line hangovers :-)  }), you now have a surface that yields perfect
alignment of the cap wrt the rod.  It also has the added benefit of keeping
the cap in place with the infinitely-many peaks and valleys of the fracture 
(no more tolerance-fit rod-bolts to be relied upon).

Trick indeed...

DAVE (johnson@wrs.com) Internet Z-Club member #51

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 09:59:41 1993
Subject: Re: regrinding lifters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> ----------
> Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs
>   > 
> 
> what does a set of these cost and who does it?
> 

Handy catolog check
	Crane variable duration			60.00 set
	Crowler Roller			       250.00 set
	Rhodes					70.00 set
	Speed Pro				40.00 set

At these prices who would spend the time regrinding them?
dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 10:05:00 1993
Subject: Triathlon of Motor Sports (was: Real Street Triple Crown)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Subject: Triathlon of Motor Sports (was: Real Street Triple Crown)

The direction of the "Real Street Triple Crown" thread has turned toward
trying to define rules for a competitive event to reward the versatility
of a "real street" car.  Some of us, including myself, have said there is
currently no such sanctioned contest.  Turns out there is:  check out the
March 1993 issue of _Hot_Rod_ for a short article on their participation
in the second annual "Triathlon of Motor Sports" of the Las Vegas Motor Sports
Association last November.  They even placed fifth overall (behind four
"purpose-built race cars", and ahead of a stack of Corvettes) in a
Global-West-suspended, mouse-powered early Chevelle like I wannabe when I
grow up!  Does my rusty ol' heart good...

The contest is two quarter-miles, plus four laps on a "banked 3/8 mile oval",
plus four laps on a 1.6-mile road course; add all the times, and lowest
total wins.  Thus the high-twelves _Hot_Rod_ Chevelle was edged for fourth
place overall by an 1800lb V4 (yes, 4) Saab that ran mid-15's in the quarter
mile but picked up one second per lap of the oval and one and a half on the
road course.  A motorcycles-and-steamrollers Pro-"Street" car with all its
stopping power in the transbrake and 'chute would have to run negative
quarter-mile times to compensate for its unreality in the other events, even
if it didn't urf up its coolant before turn four! There are few details about
rules in the article; one set of tires and no gear ratio changes, but nothing
about legality of retuning the suspension between rounds to hook up on the
dragstrip, or to optimize for left turns on the oval.  There are classes; the
Chevelle ran in A/Production, whatever that is.  This event runs at Las Vegas
International Speedway (next round is mid-March); they suggest that the
necessary tracks are present in one facility at Memphis and Indianapolis, so
similar events could be staged there.

I'm gonna write for rules; the address is Nevada Motor Sports Association,
1500 Stardust Rd., Suite B1034, Las Vegas, NV 89109.  They also give a
number for the promoter, John Green, at 818-994-2318; that's a local
call for me in L.A. County, not in Las Vegas, fyi.  Why the heck am I
telling you this stuff anyway--you probably already read the article!

--Mark Looper
"Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"

----------
Posted by: emory!cco.caltech.edu!looper (Mark D. Looper)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 10:10:14 1993
Subject: Re: Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> 
> If you are interested in cooling with liquid gases, check out liquid 
> hydrogen.  Its heat capacity is off the scale ( if memory serves correctly )
> compared to nearly everything else.  
> 
Helium would be a little safer.  Remember a couple weeks age the Hindenburg(sp)
had a mishap thanks to hydrogen.  Helium is inert and super cold in liquid 
state. 

[Hmm, rumor I heard was that the Hindenburg exploded 'cause NBC Dateline
was there playing with their little rocket motors...... JGD]
 
> Yeah, it can be made to explode, and its cold.  My thought is to make a 
> low pressue liquid tank, and just vent the stuff.

No pressure needed as it warms it produces its own pressure.  Problem is to 
keep either of these cold enough not to go up in smoke untill you need them.
 
Then you do have the option of liquid nitrogen.  Not quite as cold but
believe me a lot less expensive for this idea. 

----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 14:00:41 1993
Subject: Re: Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I will not repeat my discussion about hydrogen, or John's discussion about
water.

I agree with John, as does John Lingenfelter.  His 280mph?  twin turbo vette
a few years back used a fuel cell that had been modified to be filled with
slush!  Slush was used to cool the intercooler, if I remember correctly.

	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285

----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 14:10:02 1993
Subject: Re: Triathlon of Motor Sports (was: Real Street Triple Crown)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


The Sonett V4 that came in 4th was owned and driven by Bud Clark, and looked
from the picture to be a Sonett V4 with a Sonett III nose, modified to tilt
from the front.  Those cars can really be made to stick.

Bud is an ace mechanic who used to work on Corvettes for a living, and as
such is no stranger to 'Murrican V8s.  I still remember a ride Bud gave me
in an 11-second drag car, on the streets of a city which shall remain
nameless.  I was hanging off the roll cage where the back seat used to be...
what a blast!

Bud used to (maybe still does?) co-own a Saab and Volvo repair shop in
Orange, CA.  His partner, Jay Arruda, built some serious V4 motors.  I used
to own a Sonett III (which also used the V4) for which Jay built a hot
motor.  It was tons of fun until the transaxle self-destructed from the
strain.  Jay's own cars were interesting too; he had the autocross setup for
Sonetts down pat.  He is the only guy I've ever known who could get a
front-wheel drive car to oversteer under power!

Ah, memories... if anyone reading this is in Orange County, could you see if
J&B Imports is still in business in Orange?

-- 
       -------------------------------------------------------------
	Chuck Fry   Recom Technologies at NASA Ames Research Center
	   chucko@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov  chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov
	    I alone bear responsibility for the claptrap above.

----------
Posted by: emory!freud.arc.nasa.gov!chucko (Chuck Fry)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 14:17:43 1993
Subject: Transbrakes (was Triathlon of Motor Sports)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Mark Looper sez:
>[groovy verbiage on the Auto Triathlon deleted]
>road course.  A motorcycles-and-steamrollers Pro-"Street" car with all its
>stopping power in the transbrake and 'chute would have to run negative
                       ^^^^^^^^^^
This is a joke, right?  The transbrakes I am familiar with provide
a "clutch-like" mechanism for launching automatic-transmission equipped
vechicles by "holding" the transmission between 1st and reverse gears.
I didn't see any smileys in your post...  so just making sure.
Excuse my analness if this was a joke!  :-)
JC.  jca@fibercom.com

[Probably refering to the type of linelock that switches a solenoid 
in a line going to rather small, rear-only brakes.  JGD]

ps Hey Mark, I've got a couple Chevelles too:  '68 SS, '72 Malibu
  I haven't decided which one is going to be the "road car"!

----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James "Dude" Akers)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 14:34:24 1993
Subject: Re: Pictures
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

        Reply to:   RE>Pictures

>I have a couple pictures that I'd like to post to the GIF archive.  Problem
is,
>I can't remember where it is! 

[Gad, doesn't anyone read the mail headers? :_)  Who says they're boring?
The GIF site addresses are listed in each message mail header.  JGD]

<* Blush *>  Awwww shucks ....  sometimes the obvious is too easy!

Sorry!

Ken Mosher
Buick GN: Hairdryers and Horsepower!
----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 14:37:23 1993
Subject: Re: carburetors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>> James D. Rosemary asks
>> 
>>  What happens if you use a vacuum secondary carb that is too big?
>> 
>Basicly you choke the engine with to much fuel.  
>An old formula someone gave me once was this.
>
>2.8E-4 x (cubic inches) x (max. rpm's) = cfm.
>
>If you use a smaller carburator you will experience slight gains at lower
>rpm's and loss at max. rpm's.  On the other hand an oversized carburator
>will create looses on both the top and bottom end.
>
>Dennis
>
Okay, I've seen two posts that respond without taking into account the point
that this is a _vacuum_ _secondary_ carb he's asking about.  Especially if
it's a spread bore design, the vacuum control on the secondaries (air doors
on Carters, I don't know about other models) can be adjusted to not choke the
engine at the top end, while still giving good low end performance and economy.

Could some of you respond taking this into account?

David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 14:53:12 1993
Subject: mazda clutch
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I use a centerforce II with a stock 1982 disk. It grabs very well but is still
smooth. Only thing that worries me is that the old engine beat up the springs
in the clutch pretty bad, and now I have an engine that seems to put out at least twice the torque, so I have probably nuked it pretty bad. I am told that the
centerforce dual friction disk is good. I know a guy who used one and he said
it works very well. Also, if you are really into beating up the car, you could
use a drag racing disk with copper pucks like the local street racers use.

----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 14:57:28 1993
Subject: Re:: Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

-------
I've been reading this for a while and am frankly amazed at some of the
suggestions... liquid hydrogen, liquid helium...  C'mon, if you want to use 
a cryogenic approach, why not good old LN2?  Especially since the dewars
for LHe have an outer dewar filled with LN2 to enable the LHe to be kept
sufficiently insulated (insert the phrase 'that I have ever seen' between
'dewars' and for LHe).  LHe boils at 4K, not really practical to handle,
LN2 boils at 77K, a little better but still not very practical.  I am in
agreement with John that plain old ICE WATER is very practial and very
affordable and readily-obtainable.  Did you ever try to get ahold of some
liquid hydrogen? or helium or even nitrogen?

Walt K.
-------

----------
Posted by: emory!halibut.nosc.mil!koziarz (Walter A. Koziarz)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 15:02:46 1993
Subject: Re: Mazda/Rotary/RX-7 mailing lists?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> The Hotrod List writes:
> > Are there any Mazda/Rotary mailing lists? 

> rx7club@cbjjn.att.com

The Rx7 administrative address is

jjn@cbjjn.att.com


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 15:29:11 1993
Subject: A/C Recharge Station for sale
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I have a factory reconditioned Murray Air-Tune IV air conditioning recharge
station for sale.  It has automatic sequencing, digital scale readout, heater,
and the hook-up to connect it to a recovery station (Murray 1000 or similar).
THIS IS NOT A RECOVERY STATION.  I was told these went for over $1500 new.
I asking $650 or best offer.  I will consider delivery within Northern/Central
Ohio, Southeastern Michigan, Eastern Indiana, Western Pennsylvania (basically
about 4 hours from Sandusky, OH [Cedar Point])

NOTE:  Although the average person can no longer buy R-12/-22 in 8 oz.
cans, you can still buy it in bulk 30 lb. jugs.  This station makes it
easy to work with.

E-mail me at tpcliff@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov or call me at
(216) 977-0036 days or (419) 433-7094 eves/weekends

----------
Posted by: emory!LIMS01.LERC.NASA.GOV!TPCLIFF
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 15:33:02 1993
Subject: Re: carburetors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 09:38:14 1993
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 93 04:20 EST
Subject: Re: carburetors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com
Reply-To: hotrod@dixie.com

>>  What happens if you use a vacuum secondary carb that is too big?
>>  
>You get a hefty primary, and a secondary that needs even more vacume
>to meter right.

 I found a sort of soggy low end but no problem getting high RPM with a
2X oversize. If you have a very large carb you may end up never using the
secondaries at all unless you adjust the vacuum action, and if you do end
up using them it'll make the metering yet a bit more inaccurate. 

>ps- Is there such a thing as 'too big' :-)

 No, there's no such thing as a carb that's too big; it's the motor that's
too small!

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 15:36:39 1993
Subject: Re:  TH350 - internal gears swapping ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 I've had them out and back in again, but not changed ratios. I have seen 
low gear sets offered for the TH400; I don't remember if I've ever seen them
for the TH350. The TH400 ones were over $300; seems a bit pricey to me for
a planetary gear cluster. From what I've heard the TH350 already has a lower
first gear ratio than the TH400, so maybe there isn't as much call for low
gear TH350 gear sets.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 16:54:45 1993
Subject: stock mazda clutch
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I used to have a stock mazda clutch. It started giving me trouble when I 
started performance modifications. I had the clutch done by a so called
reputable mechanic and was severly disappointed by the work. He failed to
reconnect the springs in the shifter and used really pathetic parts. I
found that the clutch would slip in third under hard use. A few months later
I decided to replace the clutch and flywheel (cast iron flywheels don't
like high revs). It did not surprise me to see that the disc the mechanic
installed looked like graphite because it certainly drove like it. It 
looked like the thin metal the lining is riveted onto was about to rip
along the edges. I have had no problems with my real stock disc that
came from the dealer. I use a centerforce II plate, and it engages about an
inch from the floor, but works very well. Moral of this story: If you want
the clutch done right, do it yourself or at least supply the parts yourself.

On a different subject, I have found that tire compound has an alot to do
with wheel hop. About a year ago I installed a posi rear and found out all
about the wonders of wheel hop. Everyone had different ideas of how to
fix the problem, all involving new parts or modifications that I didn't
particularly like (solid bushings, etc.) I insisted that no mod's were
necessary because the four link (all the links are on the outside near the wh
wheels as opposed to many Fords and Chevys I have seen) is not prone to
wheel hop. Four new suspension links and a pair of Koni's later, the situation
had not improved much. I then got some BFG Comp T/A's and the problem went
away. Only thing is that the Pirelli's I used to have, though only H rated,
could take speed. The V rated BFG's could not.

----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 16:59:40 1993
Subject: Re: carburetors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article <_s4snml@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
>  What happens if you use a vacuum secondary carb that is too big?
> 
> ----------
	Well, it will bog down the motor.

----------
Posted by: emory!IASTATE.EDU!munson1 (Liberty J Matt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 17:14:27 1993
Subject: Re: Sonnet V4
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> 
> The Sonett V4 that came in 4th was owned and driven by Bud Clark, and looked
> from the picture to be a Sonett V4 with a Sonett III nose, modified to tilt
> from the front.  Those cars can really be made to stick.
> 
If I remember correctly, that V4 was a Ford product. I believe it was also
used in the German Taunus and the Euro-spec Capri, too. In rear drive
configuration. 

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 18:35:33 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dave Williams writes about compression forces on pushrods:
" You're looking at 210# open pressure in a standard small block Chevy
engine, about 550# in a dispose-a-motor Pro Stocker.  Figuring 550#
* 1.6 rocker (most drag motors don't use more than 1.6) you have 880
pounds in simple compression, plus a bending moment on the rocker end
from friction in the cup, but it's probably negligible."

These numbers are good for the static load but there's also a
dynamic load which will depend on the RPM, the shape of the
cam lobe, the mass of the rocker arm (and its shape), and the
mass of the valve.  I haven't even done a back of the envelope
calculation on these so I don't know how much they will add to
the compression on the pushrod.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 18:39:40 1993
Subject: obsolete tools
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


does anyone know of a source for tools listed in factory service manuals
that are obsolete, such as certain types of pullers, etc?

----------
Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 23:43:23 1993
Subject: interference fit
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

i need information on inteference fits.  in particular
the fit between a piston pin and connecting rod.
the pin is about 1 inch in diameter and the rod hole is
about  .001 to .0015 undersize.  my questions are:
how much force is required to force the pin through
the rod hole.
how much force is required to start the pin in the
rod hole.
i would like to buy or build a puller to do this.
the manual that i have (1955 chev shop manual)
states that a kent moore puller j5538 is used
as follows:  the puller, rod, pin and piston
is assembled and put in a vice.  the puller is turned
and if less than 15 ftlb is required to turn it
then the pin is too thin (or the hole in the rod is too big).
the a anvil on the other, and how much force is lost
in friction in turning the nut.  if i build a puller
i would probably use a thrust bearing in place of the
anvil.  any ideas on how i could guide the pin in the
correct location to start the pin without galling the
inside of the rod?
thanks,
dan stanger
dxs@evolving.com

----------
Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs (Dan Stanger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 23:46:40 1993
Subject: Re: Triathlon of Motor Sports (was: Real Street Triple Crown)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Chuck Fry asks:
"Ah, memories... if anyone reading this is in Orange County, could you
see if J&B Imports is still in business in Orange?"


Information has a listing for that name: 714-282-7378.
I haven't called them to see if it is the same business.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 23:51:07 1993
Subject: Re: carburetors
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

David Wright says:
"Okay, I've seen two posts that respond without taking into account the point
that this is a _vacuum_ _secondary_ carb he's asking about.  Especially if
it's a spread bore design, the vacuum control on the secondaries (air doors
on Carters, I don't know about other models) can be adjusted to not choke the
engine at the top end, while still giving good low end performance and economy.

Could some of you respond taking this into account?"


Generally (with the exception of Q-jets and other oddities) the
carburetor designer scales both the primaries and secondaries in
proportion to the flow capability of the carb.  Therefore a
carb that is too big for the engine will typically have primaries
that are too big for that engine.

Since the primaries are the ones that give driveability on the
street you shouldn't use primaries which are too big or you will
hurt the streetability of the engine.  If it is a race-only car
then different considerations will apply.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Fri Feb 19 23:56:06 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dave Williams on The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
[...]
: pressure the bearing shells may spin.  If either happens, the rebuilder
: takes a little metal off the cap, then rebores the rod round.  A
: correctly rebored rod may show an unmachined patch up to 1/2 inch wide
: at the parting line - this is just fine.  Some shops wind up shortening
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why is this fine?  I would think that it would indicate the hole is still
not round, true?

: the whole rod by a detectable amount, trying to get a clean cut all the
: way around, since some customers bitch iffen it ain't all shiny.
: 
:  The shops buy manuals with the limits for this sort of stuff, or the
: numbers can be found in the factory service manuals, or sometimes in the
: bearing catalogs.

Maybe this is the answer to the above question?  The "within round"
tolerance is loose enough that it doesn't *have* to be perfectly
round?

DER

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Don Robinson    (602) 752-6466     Internet:  vlsiphx!donr@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
   ** Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, **
   ** my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.   **

----------
Posted by: emory!marble.UUCP!donr (Don Robinson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 00:01:24 1993
Subject: Re: alt.hotrod car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Phil Gunsul on The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
: Thanks to my ol' email hotrodding friend Bill Drake for posting a picture of
: my '64 Fuelie Corvette and blown '31 Model A  :^)
: 
: Bill also posted a couple of pictures of Geofs 'ute for your viewing pleasure.

Where, WHERE?!  I want pictures!  Phil, are you talkin' about the ftp.nau.edu
site mentioned below?
 
I don't suppose anyone has a suggestion for a poor slob like moi on
getting these pictures via Email???  Anyone????   I don't have access
to the Internet.  :^(

: Isn't it about time for the first annual alt.hotrod car show on ftp.nau.edu?
: C'mon and get those pictures ftp'd!

DER

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Don Robinson    (602) 752-6466     Internet:  vlsiphx!donr@asuvax.eas.asu.edu
   ** Any resemblance between the above views and those of my employer, **
   ** my terminal, or the view out my window are purely coincidental.   **

[Here's what I have in my files regarding ftp-by-mail:

In article <1992Jan19.123551.3520@verifone.com> jimmy_t@verifone.com writes:
} Someone at the Interop UUNET booth said they were working on
} an FTP Mail server whose usage would be restriced to UUNET customers.
} Any progress?

You probably spoke to me.  I was working on the server early in the
fall, but wasn't able to get it working at the time.  I haven't been
able to do much with it since then either.  It is still on my list of
things to do though [along with the ton of postings to uunet.tech I had
in mind when I originally created the uunet.* groups].

There is a ftp-by-mail server reachable as ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com
(send it a message with "help" in the subject or body for more info).
I here that responses can take some time due to high demand though.

On a somewhat related note, you can locate various software packages
and obtain listings of various ftp archives by sending mail to any of
several Archie servers.  The closest archie server to UUNET (a short T1
line away) is on archie.sura.net.  I recommend it above the others if
your message is sent through UUNET.

For more info on archie send a message with "help" in the subject or
body to archie@archie.sura.net, or retrieve the archie man page from
uunet!~/pub/archiving/archie/archie.man.txt.Z
-- 
James Revell   sr uunet postmaster      /8^{~
---------------------
JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!marble.UUCP!donr (Don Robinson)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 00:06:15 1993
Subject: Re: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> of acceleration. How much does a 4" piston weigh? 150lbf is

 About a pound.
                                                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 00:16:25 1993
Subject: Olds 403 questions
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> [I know that the 403 drops into directly in place of the 350; that's
-> why I am interested.]

 The 403 is a wildly oversquare 350 - 4.38 x 3.31.  That's a larger bore
than a 454 Chevy and slightly more stroke than a 327 Chevy.  Plus the
403 has 6.0 inch rods on that 3.31 stroke.

 The first year 403s are the most desirable since they have solid main
webs.  The subsequent years had vented main webs, scalloped oil pan
rails, and other lightening features.  The heads weren't the absolute
best Olds had, but they were OK.

 I sorta have a letch to build a 403 someday, should I come across one.
You could build one baaaad high-winding beast from it.
                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 01:33:50 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> 289 Cobra, a 427 Cobra (the 425 hp dual quad one), and a GT40.  He
-> told me that there were seven (7) left in the world at that time, and
-> knew the serial numbers and owner's names of each.

 I think he may have been referring to the Cobra Daytona Coupe, not the
GT40.  There were only half a dozen or so Coupes.  There were *lots* of
GT40s.

 Interestingly, the GT40s were built in England, though I forget if it
was Broadley or Wyer who did them.  Anyway, just as happened with the
Cobras, the Brits kept on making them for a while.  I have a 1988 info
packet somewhere where you could buy a *brand new* GT40 Mark IV, made on
the original tooling in the original plant.  The price had more zeroes
than you'd want to know, and then figure it took three dollars to make a
pound then...
                                     

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 01:38:41 1993
Subject: Re: Hot Rod Lincoln
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> I'm not sure on how F.O.R.D. is on this

 Say, partner - we Ford fans are takin' issue wit ya.

 That's Ford - and smile when you say it.  That's old Henry's last name,
which he put on his cars, like the Chevrolet brothers, Feruccio
Lamborghini, Walter P. Chrysler, Gottleib Daimler, or Soichiro Honda
among others.  It's not an acronym like R.E.O. or F.I.A.T. or S.A.A.B.
or B.M.W.


 PS: I read an interview with Mazda's CEO a few years ago.  They asked
him what "Mazda" meant.  He said it didn't mean anything, they had just
made it up.  I guess they'd never heard of Ahura Mazda or Mazda lamps.

 PPS:  The word "Camaro" doesn't mean anything at all.  Chevy PR took a
lot of flak for that back in the late '60s.
                                                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 02:57:12 1993
Subject: Re: lifter resurfacing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> One of the local cam grinders, who I have used extensively and
-> happily has a lifter resurfacing rig made out of a small kwik-way
-> boring bar set at about an 88 degree angle over a custom made
-> horizontal belt sander. Lifter is chucked in bar, powered up and hand
-> fed onto the belt. A mister is used for cooling. Work great, of
-> course only selected lifters are refaced but the product is OK. I
-> have used a lot of these, and, as far as I can remember, have never
-> had to warrenty one.

 I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing how you'd use a boring bar, but
unless you have the lifter on some sort of slide of pivot you're going
to wind up with a conic section on the nose, not a spherical radius.
An 80-inch spherical radius is 6'6".   I was figuring flat might be
easier to do, and obviously the lifter is flat for a while before it
wears a cup.

 Could you give me the name and perhaps phone number of this place?  I'd
like to talk with them.

 This isn't all for a way to save $10 on a $35 set of Chevy lifters.
Every now and then you come across an old or foreign motor where you
simply can't get parts like that anywhere.  Also, I just want to know
how to do it.
                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 03:02:58 1993
Subject: btu's in gallon of gasoline?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> [Depends on the blend.  Looks like a pump gas will be around 19,500
-> btu/lb while a racing fuel containing a lot of toluene will be closer
-> to 17,000  JGD]

 That reminds me.  I just got back from an intensive two-day orientation
at a new customer site - I'll be doing some maintenance on some
hazardous waste material disposal software.  Toluene, benzine, and
xylene are on the "nasty" list along with nitroparaffin, sodium azide,
and the like.  You wouldn't BELIEVE the paperwork involved in
transporting hazardous materials - EPA, DOT, and state manifests, plus
assorted other junk, six copies of this, four of that, etc.  No wonder
the stuff is hard to get.

 Ever wonder why the price of chrome plating has gone through the roof?
In many areas, it costs them three or four times more to dispose of old
solution than it did in the first place.
                                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 03:08:41 1993
Subject: Re: carbon fiber pushrods
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> heavy spring loads.  I'm not very familar with the dimensions
-> of "real" pushrods however, but if you consider steel at 30Msi

 7 to 10 inches long, probably 2/3 are 5/16 diameter, the rest are 3/8
diameter. 5/16 or 3/8 ball end usually, though some cup ends may use a
larger radius.

 Some racing pushrods are 7/16, using 3/8 ball ends.
                                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 03:14:02 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Imagine a con-rod that is one peice (ie, the would-be cap is part of
-> the rod, and cannot be removed { kinda hard to put on the crank too
-> :-)  }).

 Now imagine a Yamaha TZ700 four, with the crank built up out of lots of
little pieces pressed together over one-piece rods, then painstakingly
aligned and straightened.  Expensive too.  For real kicks, try one of
the old Bugatti straight-eights, all ball and roller bearing, pressed
together crank.


-> Now take the rod and break it where the would-be cap and rod would
-> normally be bolted together.

 This is where I'm still left pretty much in the dark.  A rod brittle
enough to break ain't worth much in a motor - you can usually bend even
cast rods clear in half without breaking them.  Are they dipping the
rods in liquid nitrogen or something?

[The chainsaw con rod is forged and can also be bent.  The grain structure on 
the fracture suggests the rod is highly hardened for fracture and then 
annealed later.  I'd anticipate the sintered metal rods to be brittle
but I don't know, having never seen one.  JGD]


-> assembly-line hangovers :-)  }), you now have a surface that yields
-> perfect alignment of the cap wrt the rod.  It also has the added

 Similar to the way most aluminum rods have sawtooth mating surfaces
instead of smooth like steel rods.
                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 03:19:04 1993
Subject: Re: regrinding lifters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


->      Crane variable duration                 60.00 set
->      Rhodes                                  70.00 set
-> At these prices who would spend the time regrinding them?

 If you could regrind them for $20, and they performed equivalent to
before, you'd have $40 you could spend on something else.

 If you needed a set of lifters for, say, a Hupmobile or a
Hispano-Suiza, and a moldy cardboard box of NOS lifters was $500, you'd
have $480 you could spend on something else.
                                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 03:23:21 1993
Subject: Re: Sonnet V4
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> If I remember correctly, that V4 was a Ford product. I believe it was
-> also used in the German Taunus and the Euro-spec Capri, too. In rear
-> drive configuration.

 It was designed by Ford USA as a Volkswagen-killer back in the '50s,
for a front wheel drive minicar called the Cardinal.  The Cardinal never
made it here, but got foisted off on Ford/Germany (Taunus) who fiddled
with it, then built a few.

 The *German* spec Capri used the Cardinal V4.  The *British* spec Capri
also used a V4, but it was a wholly different motor.

 Ford sold zillions of the motors as irrigation pump engines, bunches to
SAAB for cars, etc.  They also tacked on two more cylinders and removed
the balance shaft to make the 2300 Ford V6 in the early German Capris,
which was enlarged to 2600, then 2800cc in the Capri II.  It also came
in the Pinto.  If you look at a V4 and V6 together it's amazing how
similar they are - pretty much like a 229 and a 305 Chevy.
        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 03:28:29 1993
Subject: Re: TH350 - internal gears swapping ?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

> I've had them out and back in again, but not changed ratios. I have seen 
>low gear sets offered for the TH400; I don't remember if I've ever seen them
>for the TH350. The TH400 ones were over $300; seems a bit pricey to me for
>a planetary gear cluster. From what I've heard the TH350 already has a lower
>first gear ratio than the TH400, so maybe there isn't as much call for low
>gear TH350 gear sets.

The ratios are the same for 350s and 400s. For a lower first gear ratio,
get a 700 r4. They throw in an overdrive free :-)

JD


----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 03:33:59 1993
Subject: Re: regrinding lifters
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>> ----------
>> Posted by: emory!evolving.com!dxs
>>   > 
>> 
>> what does a set of these cost and who does it?
>> 

>Handy catolog check
>	Crane variable duration			60.00 set
>	Crowler Roller			       250.00 set
>	Rhodes					70.00 set
>	Speed Pro				40.00 set

>At these prices who would spend the time regrinding them?

Good point. For the record, the price was 50 cents per lifter, it
was a few years ago ;-) and prices for new are higher up here.

JD




----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 03:38:26 1993
Subject: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> I am not sure if I have a problem or not.  I have a Holley 750 carb 
> on a basically stock 350 Olds Rocket and I don't think I have enough 
> air going into the carb.  Would that be the fault of the carb or 
> something else?  THe only other mods on the engine are an Edelbrock 
> Performer Intake (with a spacer) and a Mallory Coil (it just replaces 
> the old coil so I'm not sure if its perfomance or not).
> Any suggestions?
> 

Hmmm, first, the 750 should be more than adequate for a mid RPM
(6000?) 350.  Is this a vacuum secondary carb?  If so, then have
you ever changed the spring?  If you have the original spring, then
chances are very good that your secondaries are barely opening.
I know this is true with the 600's I've played with.  Get a spring
kit and start going softer, then feel your jaw drop when your secondaries
open for the first time :).
If you have a double dumper (err, pumper), then none of this really applies.


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 03:43:05 1993
Subject: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Would anyone care to commment on the best way to adjust the rockers
on a smallblock chevy with a hydraulic cam?  Actually a crower hydraulic
roller, crower stainless roller lifters, comp cams stud girdles.
Someone (my "boss") already set them, but I found two that were
definately two tight (was doing a leakdown test), and think
that the rest are probably to tight as well.  Is there anythign that
could cause them to get tighter after a few hours of running?
Or were they just plain over tightened in the first place?
And finally, what is the proper way to readjust them?  On the two I
played with, I had to go out several turns (after the place where they
finally sealed)before I got any difference in rocker noise.  Should
I totally remove the stud girdles when I'm adjusting the rockers, or
just loosen the half I'm working on?
 

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 06:57:59 1993
Subject: Hotrodding a "Mileage Maker" 223 six?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


I'm thinking of using some of the goodies that Clifford
sells to hop up a 223 six.  Most likely headers and a
manifold to start with.  I'm not looking for whopping
horsepower, just a little more performance and hopefully
economy.  I've thought seriously of swapping in a 5.0 V8
instead, but I think a hot rodded 6 would be a lot more
fun.  BTW, this is in a '59 Mercury M100 1/2 ton.

So, does anybody have any experience with these engines?
Any tips?  Carb suggestions?  Is the fact that the 223
has only 5 main bearings gonna be a big problem?

Thanks,
Dave Angus
dnwangus@flash.lakeheadu.ca

----------
Posted by: emory!FLASH.LakeheadU.CA!dnwangus (Dances-with-voles)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 07:02:12 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov!chucko (Chuck Fry) writes:
"In article <0c3sj7f@dixie.com> johnson@wrs.com writes:
">I got my Roundel just the other day...  seems the new BMW hi-po motor
">has the cap located by a deliberate fracture, now that's intense!
"
">[This technique is actually very old and works real well.  McCulloch has
">done this since at least the 60s on their chain saw and kart engines.
"> ... JGD]
"
"Ford has also picked up this technique for (at least some versions of)
"the new modular V8s.  Good to see that they're in good company.

i've also seen it on roller bearings -- they claim the rollers last
longer because the halves of the race fit together tighter.

-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnews.cb.att.com!adh (andrew.d.hay)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 15:55:54 1993
Subject: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article <4j5s8pd@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> I am not sure if I have a problem or not.  I have a Holley 750 carb 
> on a basically stock 350 Olds Rocket and I don't think I have enough 
> air going into the carb.  Would that be the fault of the carb or 
> something else?  THe only other mods on the engine are an Edelbrock 
> Performer Intake (with a spacer) and a Mallory Coil (it just replaces 
> the old coil so I'm not sure if its perfomance or not).
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Oh, I am also looking for a sway bar for a 71 Cutlass Convertible.
> Anyone?
> 
> Thanks, 
> 
> Jesse
Make sure that your air cleaner has the capability to pull in the needed air. 
Stock air cleaners are usually closed with a silly snorkel.  For a motor with
any power, these don't work that well.  Also, make sure your problem is airflow,
it may be something else.  Try posting more information about the problem,
you're likely to get valuable feedback.

----------
Posted by: emory!IASTATE.EDU!munson1 (Liberty J Matt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 16:00:17 1993
Subject: Re: Re:: Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article <-f5sfm=@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> -------
> I've been reading this for a while and am frankly amazed at some of the
> suggestions... liquid hydrogen, liquid helium...  C'mon, if you want to use 
> a cryogenic approach, why not good old LN2?  Especially since the dewars
> for LHe have an outer dewar filled with LN2 to enable the LHe to be kept
> sufficiently insulated (insert the phrase 'that I have ever seen' between
> 'dewars' and for LHe).  LHe boils at 4K, not really practical to handle,
> LN2 boils at 77K, a little better but still not very practical.  I am in
> agreement with John that plain old ICE WATER is very practial and very
> affordable and readily-obtainable.  Did you ever try to get ahold of some
> liquid hydrogen? or helium or even nitrogen?
> 
Actually, liquid notrogen is vary cheap.  Since over 70% of our atmosphere is
made up of it, it is readily avaliable.  However, nothing remotely practical
beats ice water.  For a motor that will only be running for less than 1 minute
(burnout, staging, and pass included), the best bet would be to run really cold
water thru an intercooler.  This could be done with very little weight gain. 
For this, a giant radiator isn't needed, just a way to hold ice water, and
circulate it just enough.

----------
Posted by: emory!IASTATE.EDU!munson1 (Liberty J Matt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 16:05:29 1993
Subject: Re: Hotrodding a "Mileage Maker" 223 six?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Sounds interesting, however, if you decide that you do not want 
to hazzle with the clifford equipment, a 460/C6 works pretty good
in your platform. Someone that frequents the cruz nights in our
area here in San Diego was running a similar setup.  It was a 
real sleeper.    Your Merc is a rare one.  With the size of the 
engine compartment, anything would work. Good Luck.Mike B

===========================================================================
Michael G. Brattland (brattlan@cyber.net) | 1923 Ford Roadster
600 Coldstream Drive                      |  (Ford 302, Tri-Power,
El Cajon, CA 92020-7721                   |  4 spd, 9 inch)
619 444-1944 (H)                          | 1971 Porsche 911T
619 553-7814 (W)                          |  (Carbs & 5 spd, Orig Owner)
                                          | 1988 Ford F150 4x4
    "3 Deuces and a 4 speed!"             |  (302, 5 spd)
                                          | Ex-Jeepster Commando Owner
For Tech Info on Ford Small and Big Block Tri-Powers, e-mail me!
===========================================================================

----------
Posted by: "Michael G. Brattland" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 20 16:11:03 1993
Subject: fuel delivery
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I have a street ported 12A rotary with a history of nasty fuel starvation
problems. It used to have two small fuel pumps, one of which somehow became
disconnected, causing starvation to the point of detonation. I found
the problem, fixed it, and only mildly improved the situation. I then
replaced the wimpy pumps with a Mallory 110. I checked the fuel line for
kinks and found none. Later I decided that the side draft carb needed 
smaller air jets to compensate for the larger venturis. I noticed a 
significant performance improvement when I installed them, along with
more detonation. I replaced the wimpy fuel pressure regulator with a 
Holley regulator and thought my problems were solved until detonation
returned a few weeks later while running it hard. I could try to find a 
better float valve, but I'm probably pushing the little side draft right
over the edge as it is. I have decided to get a Holley. A guy I know let
me borrow his 700 double pumper for a test run to get an idea of what size
carb I need. His carb was jetted rich because he was racing with open exhaust,
and the primary accelerator pump had been acting up. Nonetheless, the carb
went on. It drove pretty well on the primaries, and pulled pretty well
at high RPM after it had a chance to recover from excessive richness. Due
to the jetting, we could not be sure whether or not it was too big, so a 
650 was decided on. The carb MUST be dual feed. This is why a double
pumper looks attractive for this use. I considered a vacuum, but only the 750
has dual feeds. Any ideas?

----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 21 02:57:07 1993
Subject: Re: alt.hotrod car show
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>Phil Gunsul on The Hotrod List (hotrod@dixie.com) wrote:
>: Thanks to my ol' email hotrodding friend Bill Drake for posting a picture of
>: my '64 Fuelie Corvette and blown '31 Model A  :^)
>: 
>: Bill also posted a couple of pictures of Geofs 'ute for your viewing pleasure
>
>Where, WHERE?!  I want pictures!  Phil, are you talkin' about the ftp.nau.edu
>site mentioned below?
> 
>I don't suppose anyone has a suggestion for a poor slob like moi on
>getting these pictures via Email???  Anyone????   I don't have access
>to the Internet.  :^(
>
>DER
>
>[Here's what I have in my files regarding ftp-by-mail:
>{stuff removed}
>There is a ftp-by-mail server reachable as ftpmail@decwrl.dec.com
>(send it a message with "help" in the subject or body for more info).
>I here that responses can take some time due to high demand though.
>JGD]

And I can pass along a quick step-by-step on using the mailserver..  As
John was indicating by his addition, you don't need to be connected directly.
To obtain a listing of what pictures are out there at N.A.U. (ftp.nau.edu)
using ftpmail, all that is required is that you can send and receive a mail
message.  The following mail message will bring you a listing of what pictures
are out there [ you, of course, need to substitute your email address in
the "reply" line ;^) ]

==============================================================

mail ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com

reply prg@mgweed.att.com
connect ftp.nau.edu
cd graphics/gif/racing/hotrods
dir
quit

=============================================================

That's all there is to it!  You will get a message back from the 'gatekeeper'
indicating it has received your request.  Usually, overnight, the request
will be serviced and you'll receive back an actual directory listing of
what is out there.

To download the two pictures Bill scanned for me, I sent the following mail
to the gatekeeper.

============================================================

mail ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com

reply prg@mgweed.att.com
connect ftp.nau.edu
binary
btoa
cd graphics/gif/racing/hotrods
get Corvette.GIF
get ModelA.blown.GIF
quit

============================================================

A couple of slight differences here.  You MUST tell this automated server
that the file you are requesting is in a 'binary' format and, in this case,
I wanted it to use 'btoa' to convert the file from binary to an ASCII format
for transfer through the mail system [you could alternately request it to
use 'uuencode' -- I will be happy to discuss off the hotrod list the meanings
of these terms and what to do with them if someone is not familiar with them.]
The above assumes your own machine, or the machine you talk to has a 'smart'
mailer that can interpret the internet address, failing that, you'll need
to substitute in a full path to the DEC machine and back to you in a 'bang'
path format..

Phil Gunsul

----------
Posted by: emory!mgweed.att.com!prg
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 21 03:03:52 1993
Subject: GT-40, original, replica and remake
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

We had this discussion a while back on the Exotic-Cars list. Here's a
hastily thrown together (and rather long) summary:

I've got an article in Sports Car graphic or some such, describing the
(then) brand-new GT40 effort- They introduced the prototype with a 260. (It may have
been an aluminium version of the 260 yet.)

--

I believe (this is from an old a fuzzy memory, so I've probably got it
wrong) that the original series was commissioned by Ford and actually
built by Eric broadley and Lola.  These cars were fitted with 289s and
were constructed in 1963.  The Mk I series cars were built by Ford and
contained improvement to the original cars.  The Mk II series were a
complete remake of the car from the ground up to take advantage of the
427 motor.  This was the car that won LeMans (and swept the top three
places, but still lost the championship that year to Ferrari and his
P4/3s).  The Mk III series were the _road_ cars and used 289s and were
very limited in number.  The Mk IV series were not related to the Mk
II or Mk III developments, but were an offshoot of the Ford J-car
program (narrower accomadations), an internal in-house development
that split from the original GT40 line (full width cockpits).
Historical footnote, Ken Miles was killed testing the original J-car,
a bread-van looking affair which the Mk IV, thankfully, did not
resemble.  The Mk IV was the car that won at LeMans in '67 with Foyt
and Gurney at the wheel.  The Mirage series of cars were John Wyer
developments after Ford officially bailed out of the program, and were
based on the older GT40 line with 289 and 302 engines and full width
cockpits.  This due to the banning of prototypes (the J-car line) with
engines larger than 3 liters (183 cu in).  These are the cars that won
in '68 and '69, ending Ford's reign at LeMans.

The current line of Safir Engineering cars is (supposedly) built on
the same fixtures as the older GT40 cars and incorporate new
improvments as well.  Just as AC builds a `new' Cobra (but cannot call
it such due to legal constraints) called the Mk IV, so Safir builds a
`new' GT40 called the Mk V.  Personally, a rose is a rose is a rose...

--

Some information from the Shelby American World Registry, 
1987 edition:


Prototypes:
    Coupe....................5
    Roadster.................5
    Mk II....................2
Production:
	Racing Coupe............49
	Road Coupe..............30
	Mk II....................8

The GT40 MkI was the original GT40 design.  Between the years 1964-69 it was
extensively modified as part of ongoing development.  It primarily used the 
small block 289 Ford engine although versions were built with the Ford 256ci 
aluminum-block pushrod Indy motor, 4-cam Indy motors, and maybe 1 or 2 other
types.  Nearly all kits and replicas are patterned after the MkI (ERA/GTD/Safir).

The MkII was essentially a MKI with a 427 engine stuffed in the back.
Rear bodywork on the MkII was different (more scoops) and most underpinnings
were beefed up to withstand the extra torque and weight of the 427.  These
cars could top 220MPH at LeMans.  The MkI was the "customer" version of the 
GT40.  MkIIs were used only by the factory supported teams.  Interestingly,
the MkII won the LeMans 24hr race in 1966, but a MkI won the event in 1968
and 1969.  

There were two street versions of the GT40, the MkI road coupe and the MkIII.  
The MkI road coupe was a standard GT40 MkI race car with carpet, a detuned 
engine (still with Webers), and the necessary lights, etc.  The list price was 
$15,400 in 1966 (sniff, sniff).  All MkIs were right hand drive with the shift
lever mounted driver's right (in the door sill).  The MkIII was built as a 
street model.  It had a longer tail section with a small luggage compartment.
The interior had a/c, stereo, etc.  As Roland indicates, only 7 MkIIIs were
built (2 prototypes + 5 production).  Four of the MkIIIs were left hand drive.
Fiberfab built a MkIII replica called the Avenger GT, but I'm not sure if you 
can still get one of these.

The MkIV was considered a GT40 although it was constructed around a different
chassis.  The new chassis conformed to the FIA Appendix "J" regulations,
hence the J in the serial numbers.  Only 10 of the chassis were ever assembled
into complete cars.  The last 2 assembled were actually built as Group7 Can-Am
cars.  The remaining 2 chassis were spare tubs.  The MkIV has a much narrower
cockpit and windshield than the other GT40s.  It also has a rounder nose and
horizontal flat surfaces on either side of the cockpit.  A MkIV won LeMans
in 1967 with Gurney/Foyt.  A replica of the MkIV was built in the early 70's
(with Chevy power), but is extremely rare.  I don't believe anyone makes a 
MkIV replica or kit today.  In the early 1980's 3 of the 8 MkIV coupes were 
owned by Trans-Am driver Les Lindley!

Mirage.......................3

Ah, the rarest of the rare!  The Mirage was a heavily modified GT40 MkI which
was built by John Horsman while employed by John Wyer (Gulf racing team).
Mirages were essentially GT40 MkI tubs which were lightened and had a narrower
roof grafted onto them.  They were only raced for the 1967 season.  Chassis
M10001 still exists, M10002 was destroyed by Dick Thompson at the Nurburgring
in 1967, and M10003 was rebodied into GT40 MkI #1074 for the 68-69 seasons.
Chassis #1074 is the sister car to #1075 (which won LeMans in _both_ 68 & 69).
I believe #1075 is owned by Harley Cluxton in Arizona and is worth >$5M.

Mk III.......................7
Alan Mann:
   Lightweight Mk I..........2
   Lightweight Mk II.........3

These were aluminum-bodied versions of the MkI and MkII with lightened chassis.

'J' Chassis.................12
Post Production Chassis*.....7

* Un-numbered chassis left over when production ceased 
  in 1969.  Some were used to repair existing cars and 
  some were used to assembled completely new cars.

The above table does not include the 19 JW Automotive so called "Safir"
Mk Vs.  Even though these cars were supposedly built using much of the
same tooling, they were not part of the original GT40 production. There
are 2 versions of this
car.  Most Safirs are MkI replicas, but a handful of them are MkII replicas.
I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe there are only about 5 MkIIs.
Safir MkIs are selling for about $350K and I've seen MkIIs selling for $500K.

--

The Safir Mk V were made by JWA (John Wyer & John W-something) and were
updated versions of the GT40 MkI.  Safir also made ~5 MkII replicas
with big-block motors.  In the case of the MkIIs, they can't be called
reproductions because the original MkIIs were made in the USA by Kar
Kraft (I think).

The MkII that Holman/Moody is building is a more recent effort and
is supposedly being done with the original Kar Kraft drawings.  The 
last I read about the project, the asking price was $850K.

--

One of the founders of Holman-Moody is currently building brand new
GT40 MkIIs.  I can't remember if it's Holman or Moody, though. 
Apparently much of the original design of the MkIIs was done at H-M, so
the original drawings still exist. I have read that the original Kar
Kraft body molds are being used for this
project.  The whole affair sounds very similar to the Safir MkV -- original
design with a few updates brake calipers, tub construction, etc.  I think
the asking price for the new MkII is about $850K. 

--

The January (Buyers' Guide) issue of Peterson's Kit Car mag lists
5 different GT40 kits.  SIAC Int'l, GTD Developments, ERA, NAF,
and Hardy Motors all build GT40 kits.  The NAF (North American
Fiberglass) kit is build on a Fiero chassis and is about 6" wider
than the more accurate replicas, which means you can probably 
actually sit in one.  It is actually wider, taller, shorter length,
and shorter wheelbase, than the "real" replicas.  GTD Developments
is in England.

--

IMHO the ERA replica is head and shoulders above the rest.  I have the 
complete sales package on this kit.  It's almost identical to the original
GT40 -- chassis, suspension, cockpit, instrument panel, etc, etc.
I believe the body molds were lifted off a real GT40.  It's available
with either the standard GT40 tail section or the JWA-style tail
(the wide-hipped version used on the Gulf GT40s).  You can even get the 
extra wide BRM rear wheels.  I've seen the ERA up close and it's as
close to the real thing as you can get (except the Safir).  

The kit sells for about $50K and you still need the engine, transaxle
(ZF or Porsche 915), wheels, tires, exhaust system, and a few small bits.
Most of the wiring, hydraulics, exterior panels, and cooling system are
already installed.  I'd estimate that it would cost $85K-$100K total.

I think the GTD is available only as a turnkey car.  I know of one for
sale in the Livermore, CA area for $95K.  I've been quoted $125K for
a new one.  It's a little steep pricewise for what you get.  The GTD 
has several compromises which make it more streetable.  Most notably,
it has rubber suspension bushings instead of the heim joints used in
the ERA.   

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 21 03:10:55 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I was plannong on getting a new air cleaner but that isn't where 
my problem is.  When I have the air cleaner off and have the car 
running it seems like nothing is going in.  I don't think the idling 
screws are the problem either.  I followed the instructions to adjust 
them: 1.5 turns out.   This morning I found out I have a cracked 
water pump, but I don't think that that would have anything to do 
with the air flow.  Also when I accelerate the engine boggs out for 
about a second.  That rarely happens but nevertheless it does happen 
on occaision.  
This may sound a stupid question but I cannot remember if the carb 
is a vac secondary or double pumper?  Maybe some one could describe 
how to check it?

--
rapier@camelot.bradley.edu

"I don't shower much"
			--Fletch

----------
Posted by: Jesse Vitell 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 21 03:15:20 1993
Subject: Re: : Intercooling a supercharged engine
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>Actually, liquid notrogen is vary cheap.  Since over 70% of our atmosphere is
>made up of it, it is readily avaliable.  However, nothing remotely practical
>beats ice water.  For a motor that will only be running for less than 1 minute
>(burnout, staging, and pass included), the best bet would be to run really cold
>water thru an intercooler.  This could be done with very little weight gain. 
>For this, a giant radiator isn't needed, just a way to hold ice water, and
>circulate it just enough.

A very simple method is to stop at the local Quick-E-Mart on your way to the
track, pickup a bag or two of ice (depending on the size of your intercooler)
for each run you plan to make, and load the ice over the intercooler before
the run (or in the intercooler w/water if you have a water/air exchanger). 
-- 
===========================================================================
  "Bureaucracy is a challenge to be conquered with a righteous attitude,
     a tolerance for stupidity, and a bulldozer when necessary"
                  -- Peter's Laws

----------
Posted by: emory!rpi.edu!stiegg (Gregory Mark Stiegler)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 21 03:21:10 1993
Subject: Re: fuel delivery
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> I have a street ported 12A rotary with a history of nasty fuel starvation
> problems. It used to have two small fuel pumps, one of which somehow became
> disconnected, causing starvation to the point of detonation. I found
> the problem, fixed it, and only mildly improved the situation. I then
> replaced the wimpy pumps with a Mallory 110. I checked the fuel line for
> kinks and found none.

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge?  Its a must have for diagnosing
fuel starvation problems when adequate fuel delivery is uncertain.
I have a little 1" Holley gauge that I throw under a windsheild wiper
for such testing.  Make sure you T into the fuel line as close to the carb
as possible.  On my stock port 12A with a 465cfm Holley, I used a Holley
"red" pump (no regulator, no return line) and have no trouble keeping
5psi fuel pressure at WOT at 7000RPM. 

> Later I decided that the side draft carb needed 
> smaller air jets to compensate for the larger venturis. I noticed a 
> significant performance improvement when I installed them, along with
> more detonation. I replaced the wimpy fuel pressure regulator with a 
> Holley regulator and thought my problems were solved until detonation
> returned a few weeks later while running it hard. I could try to find a 
> better float valve, but I'm probably pushing the little side draft right

Hmmm, I don't think I've ever experienced detonation in a rotary, but I've
never run one lean.  I know that peak combustion temp peaks just lean of
stoich (don't remember where exactly), but after a point comes back down.
If your running *really* lean then you should be loosing a lot of power.
Maybe your richening of the mixture brought the A/F ratio back to around
the point where peak temp occurs.  I strongly reccomend using an O2 sensor
for tuning.  It isn't accurate out at the A/F ratios where peak power and
peak economy occur, but it at least lets you get close to stoich, which
you can use as a baseline. 

> over the edge as it is. I have decided to get a Holley. A guy I know let
> me borrow his 700 double pumper for a test run to get an idea of what size
> carb I need. His carb was jetted rich because he was racing with open exhaust,
> and the primary accelerator pump had been acting up. Nonetheless, the carb
> went on. It drove pretty well on the primaries, and pulled pretty well
> at high RPM after it had a chance to recover from excessive richness. Due
> to the jetting, we could not be sure whether or not it was too big, so a 
> 650 was decided on. The carb MUST be dual feed. This is why a double
> pumper looks attractive for this use. I considered a vacuum, but only the 750
> has dual feeds. Any ideas?

650 is WAY too big for a street port 12A, IMHO.  Racing Beat specs a 465cfm
for both the stock and street port 12A.  I have a friend that drag races
with street port 13B's, and he only uses a 600's, which are a little on the
big side but are cheap.  WHy must the carb be dual feed?  Need the center
pivot floats to keep the floats from getting thrown around in curves?
No big deal, you can put center pivot float bowls on any Holley 4bbl, which
also gives you the dual feed.  Racing Beat even sells it as a kit, although
you can probably get the parts cheaper somewhere else (or gut a 750).  I'm
a strong believer in vacuum secondaries, too..

Good luck.


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 21 03:26:26 1993
Subject: Re: lifter resurfacing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> One of the local cam grinders, who I have used extensively and
>-> happily has a lifter resurfacing rig made out of a small kwik-way
>-> boring bar set at about an 88 degree angle over a custom made
>-> horizontal belt sander. Lifter is chucked in bar, powered up and hand
>-> fed onto the belt. A mister is used for cooling. Work great, of
>-> course only selected lifters are refaced but the product is OK. I
>-> have used a lot of these, and, as far as I can remember, have never
>-> had to warrenty one.

> I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing how you'd use a boring bar, but

Guess I should have mentioned that the boring bar head was modified
and had a big drill chuck on it to hold the lifter.

>unless you have the lifter on some sort of slide of pivot you're going
>to wind up with a conic section on the nose, not a spherical radius.
>An 80-inch spherical radius is 6'6".   I was figuring flat might be
>easier to do, and obviously the lifter is flat for a while before it
>wears a cup.

> Could you give me the name and perhaps phone number of this place?  I'd
>like to talk with them.

Shadbolt Cams, 604-738-9505. Barry is probably the one to talk to. Good
people.


> This isn't all for a way to save $10 on a $35 set of Chevy lifters.
>Every now and then you come across an old or foreign motor where you
>simply can't get parts like that anywhere.  Also, I just want to know
>how to do it.
>                   

>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 01:01:11 1993
Subject: Re: con rod reconditioning
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> : correctly rebored rod may show an unmachined patch up to 1/2 inch
-> wide : at the parting line - this is just fine.  Some shops wind up
-> shortening                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> Why is this fine?  I would think that it would indicate the hole is
> still not round, true?

 The part you're most interested in is the top and bottom.  In fact,
many bearing shells, such as the original Moraine ones in the 350 Chevy
I just overhauled, are actually thinner at the ends.  After 3000 miles
you could see the dark area where the surface overlay had not been worn
off.  This is mainly to ensure you don't have a misalignment for some
reason, with one shell acting as a wedge to scrape the oil off the
crank.


-> Maybe this is the answer to the above question?  The "within round"
-> tolerance is loose enough that it doesn't *have* to be perfectly
-> round?

 That too.  You'd be surprised at some tolerances - for example, Ford
allows .003 out of round on the main bores and .0015 on the crank, for a
maximum possible runout of .0045.  The oil clearance is only .0025.  You
can see why paranoid engine builders don't just slap the bearings in and
torque it down.
                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 01:04:40 1993
Subject: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Would anyone care to commment on the best way to adjust the rockers
-> on a smallblock chevy with a hydraulic cam?

 Start the motor, back off one rocker at a time until it starts to
chatter, snug it until it just quits, then tighten 1/4 turn.

 For the ultimate techno-pizazz you can rotate the cam until it's on the
base circle, back off the rocker until the plunger in the lifter is up
against the snap ring, set zero with a dial indicator, and then tighten
the rocker nut until you move the plunger down .020 or so.  It comes out
the same in the end.


-> played with, I had to go out several turns (after the place where
-> they finally sealed)before I got any difference in rocker noise.

 Normal Detroit hydraulic lifter range is .060.


-> finally sealed)before I got any difference in rocker noise.  Should I
-> totally remove the stud girdles when I'm adjusting the rockers, or
-> just loosen the half I'm working on?

 I can't imagine the stud girdles being worth anything on a hydraulic
cammed motor since it won't rev to the ranges where you need mondo
bastard springs, but what the heck.  You only have to loosen the ones
you're working with.
                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 01:10:03 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> I was plannong on getting a new air cleaner but that isn't where 
> my problem is.  When I have the air cleaner off and have the car 
> running it seems like nothing is going in.  I don't think the idling 
> screws are the problem either.  I followed the instructions to adjust 
> them: 1.5 turns out.   This morning I found out I have a cracked 
> water pump, but I don't think that that would have anything to do 
> with the air flow.  Also when I accelerate the engine boggs out for 
> about a second.  That rarely happens but nevertheless it does happen 
> on occaision.  
> This may sound a stupid question but I cannot remember if the carb 
> is a vac secondary or double pumper?  Maybe some one could describe 
> how to check it?
> 

Sure.  A vac.  sec.  will have a piece shaped like a toy "top" on the
passenger side.  Try flipping the primaries over with your fingers (use
the throttle link.).  If the secondaries open after you turn it a ways,
it is a mech.  secondary carb.

The bogging may be caused by the wrong size squirter.  The squirter is
the piece that injects fuel from the accelerator pump.  Changing that
may be in order.  If the bogging is the only problem, this may be the
fix.  If it boggs down at other times, you may need to change the vac.
sec.  springs.  You should also make sure you have the correct jetting.
Running too rich, or too lean doesn't help the problem any.

You may also want to re-analyze that spacer.  A spacer is a way of
tuning an engine.  It gives more plenum volume, and therefore raises the
rpm range of your intake.  If the cam is stock, maybe the intake and cam
aren't working well together with that spacer.  Matching cam and intake
is very important to how a car runs, and how much power it makes.  Scott

----------
Posted by: emory!IASTATE.EDU!munson1 (Liberty J Matt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 01:16:00 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
|> I was plannong on getting a new air cleaner but that isn't where 
|> my problem is.  When I have the air cleaner off and have the car 
|> running it seems like nothing is going in.  I don't think the idling 
|> screws are the problem either.  I followed the instructions to adjust 
|> them: 1.5 turns out.   This morning I found out I have a cracked 
|> water pump, but I don't think that that would have anything to do 
|> with the air flow.  Also when I accelerate the engine boggs out for 
|> about a second.  That rarely happens but nevertheless it does happen 
|> on occaision.  
|> This may sound a stupid question but I cannot remember if the carb 
|> is a vac secondary or double pumper?  Maybe some one could describe 
|> how to check it?
|> 
|> --
|> rapier@camelot.bradley.edu
|> 
|> "I don't shower much"
|> 			--Fletch
|> 
|> ----------
|> Posted by: Jesse Vitell 


Hi Jesse,

A vac sec carb will have a vacumm acuator on the passenger side of the
carb. It is near the back and has a rod that extends downward that is
connected to the secondary throttle linkage.  

You can look down the bores and see if you have squiter nozzels in both
the primary and secondary sides. You can test them by moving the throttle
(the slightest movement should cause a pair of fuel streams to be shot from
each equipt shooter)  Obviously vac sec only has squirter nozzle on the 
primary side.

A holley 750 on a basically stock 350 can provide more than enough
air flow.  I have a 650 on my modified 400. Unless I rev past 5600
rpm (Which I never do, 3.75" stroke you know) my engine does not 
need a bigger carb.  

You say : "when I accelerate the engine boggs out for about a second"
90% of the time this is due to a sudden lean out (ie.. too much air)

The type of carb is *very* important to determine what's going on. You
also must know *exactly* when the bog occurs.

Holley vac sec carbs are great for a street driven machine. Your engine
will *never* be over carburated when properly set up and you will get
better gas mileage than mech sec. 

So, what to do :

Vac secondary carb -
  Holley makes two versions of this 1) Emission type  2) Non-emission
  The emission carb has all the hook-ups for EGR's  etc and typically
  are jetted leaner and are equipt with two stage power valves.
  The non-emission carb will not be equipt to support emissions equipment
  and of course is jetted on the rich side and has a single stage power valve.

  If you have a emissions vac sec carb I can say with 99% certainty that it
  is equipt with reverse idle mixture screws. What this means is that the
  idle mixture screws control are *air* bleed and not the fuel.  This allows
  extreemly fine adjustment of the air/fuel ratio for emissions purposes.
  To fatten up the mixture on this type you turn the screws clockwise thus
  restricting the air bleed.  counter-clockwise rotation will *lean* the
  mixture on this type carb.

  The secondaries will open up when the airflow is sufficient to start the
  secondary main metering system. If they open too soon there will not be
  enough airflow and the engine will encounter a lean stumble.

Mec secondary carb -
   Again you can get both emissions supported models or non-emission type.
   The type of mixture screws vary on mech sec models so you have to check
   the specific carb in question to know what you've got. 
   The key here is that *you* have control of the secondary opening point.
   If you stomp on the pedal (opening primary & secondary plates) there is
   not sufficient airflow to draw fuel from the mains. This "hole" is covered
   up by additional shot of fuel by the accelerator pumps.  The amount of pump
   shot and the duration are controlled by 1) pump cams attached to throttle
   2) size/type pump nozzles  3) displacment of pump itself.
   (note: this applies to vac sec carbs too)

Possible scenarios:

  1. Engine bogs on the line

    Vac sec - 1) insufficient primary pump shot (this occurs on light vehicles
    with manual tranny's due to engine's ability to *quickly* build revs)
              2) Too much initial shot (this typically occurs on heavy cars
    with automatic tranny & stock converter (engine slowly builds revs). The
    engine can take a few seconds to recover. throttle response feels sluggish.

    Mec Sec - 1) insufficeint pump shot (almost always, but depending on car and
    transmission the duration and timing of the shot have an effect.)

  2 Engine takes off well but bogs in the 2000-3000 rpm range.
    
    Vac sec - 1) Secondaries opening too soon - try stiffer vac sec. spring
                 (could be a power valve problem sticking or not enough flow)
    Mec sec - 1) power valve problem, engine may need to have full enrichment
                 sooner, thus the bog.

          
If you suspect that the engine is not getting enough air watch the exaust,
you'll know because of the black smoke that would accompany an engine going
overrich.  But, engines that are too rich tend to feel sluggish in thier 
throttle response rather than distinctive bogs or stumbles.

Good Luck,

$0.02
Ericy

      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
      |                         \,  _}                              |
      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*

   

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 01:24:47 1993
Subject: Re: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Jonahan Lusky asks about setting valve lash with hydraulic lifters.

I have no experience with the particular parts he is using but the
following principles have been very useful to me.

The factory system is designed to have aabout 1/8 inch of
adjusting range in the lifters.  This is two turns of a 3/8-16 nut
which they use on the rocker studs.  Thus, 1 turn down from no
lash approximately centers the adjustment and this is the commonly
found spec for lash.

Many people believe that they are better off with less clearance
because if the valves happen to float then there is less clearance
to take up and the piston will be farther from the piston when
valve float does occur.  Thus, racer specs vary from 1/8 to 3/4
of a turn on the lash adjustment.

My experience has been that setting lash on a partly-warmed up
engine gives you a setting which is tighter than you expected
after the engine fully warms up.  Accordingly, I let the engine
warm up fully before doing the final setting.

My lash setting method is: do the intial adjustment (on a newly
assembled engine) by rotating the crankshaft until it is at TDC
on cylinder 1.  Set the lash on the lifters which are on the heel
of the cam by tightening the adjustment until the pushrod becomes
hard to rotate by hand, then about 1/2 turn more.  Rotate the
crankshaft one full turn and do the remaining lifters.  Note that
the lifters need to be full of oil before doing this; in my case
I have alreqady pressurized the oiling system by driving the oil pump
with a 1/2 inch electric drill motor until oil is freely running
out of the pushrods.

After the rough initial adjustment I fire up the engine.  I adjust
the timing to some reasonable place just so that I can carry on
with the other adjustments - I go back to the timing later.  As
the engine is warming up I back off each lifter adjustment until
that lifter just starts to clatter and then I turn it in just a
bit to quiet it down.  After all the lifters are done and the
engine is fully warmed up I recheck that each one is just short
of the clatter point.  Then I shut the engine off and tighten each
lash adjustment by the desired amount (I usually use 3/4 turn).

Yes, I know that this procedure is contrary to the "run it above
2000 RPM for the first half hour" school of thought.  The reason
for the high RPM run-in is to make sure that the cam gets
properly lubricated during the critical break-in period.  I just
let the engine run at 1200-1500 RPM which seems to provide plenty
of splash oiling for the cam.  I've never had a premature cam
failure but, on the other hand, I've never built an engine with
a .560 lift cam either.  I also make sure that the cam and lifters
are heavily oiled and moly greased during installation.

This entire process is facilitated by having some junk yard valve
covers which have had the tops cut out installed on the engine.
This contains the oil and allows easy access to the adjustments.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 01:27:37 1993
Subject: Re: lifter resurfacing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Shadbolt Cams, 604-738-9505. Barry is probably the one to talk to.
-> Good people.

 Thanks Jim!  I'll give 'em a call later in the week.
                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 08:37:31 1993
Subject: Re: Transbrakes (was Triathlon of Motor Sports)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

James "Dude" Akers writes:

>>... A motorcycles-and-steamrollers Pro-"Street" car with all its
>>stopping power in the transbrake and 'chute would have to run negative
>                       ^^^^^^^^^^
>This is a joke, right?  The transbrakes I am familiar with provide
>a "clutch-like" mechanism for launching automatic-transmission equipped
>vechicles by "holding" the transmission between 1st and reverse gears.
>...

>[Probably refering to the type of linelock that switches a solenoid 
>in a line going to rather small, rear-only brakes.  JGD]

Actually, I was talking vaguely--I _did_ mean a transbrake, but I meant
"stopping power" in the sense of "keeping it stopped" (on the line) as
well as "getting it stopped".  Sorry about the apparent ignorance!  I
have enough of a problem with the real thing without exaggerating it...

>ps Hey Mark, I've got a couple Chevelles too:  '68 SS, '72 Malibu
>  I haven't decided which one is going to be the "road car"!

Drool drool drool...
  
--Mark Looper
"Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"

----------
Posted by: emory!cco.caltech.edu!looper (Mark D. Looper)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 08:42:49 1993
Subject: Re: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> -> finally sealed)before I got any difference in rocker noise.  Should I
> -> totally remove the stud girdles when I'm adjusting the rockers, or
> -> just loosen the half I'm working on?
> 
>  I can't imagine the stud girdles being worth anything on a hydraulic
> cammed motor since it won't rev to the ranges where you need mondo
> bastard springs, but what the heck.  You only have to loosen the ones
> you're working with.

Well, they probably aren't...  we had a rocker nut come loose last
year, so the the person who had adjusted the valves (the chairman
of the project) insisted it must be a problem with the studs or nuts,
and bought the stud girdle to keep it from ever happening again.  I say
he forgot to tighten the setscrew...  Regardless, they look cool :).
Also, with our previous intake design (roots type blower mounted
over the right header on its side blowing thru an air/water intercooler)
adjusting the rockers on 2,4,6,8 took a couple of hours.  Now we've got
that down to an hour or so, but it still takes quite a while to change
plugs (friggin hooker supercomp jumbo headers).  

We really don't need the stud girdles for anything else, we never plan
to run at more than 6000rpm.  Right now, we can't even get that high
under load (on the road).  At 4000RPM at WOT, A/F ratio is about 21:1 (17.3:1
or so is stoich for natural gas).  At 4400, its 25:1 and the tach pretty
much stops moving.  Damn CNG carb (Impco at the moment).  Kinda
sad to have so much money in a 350cid v-8 and only be putting out 130hp
at the rear wheels.  At least weve got two months left to get it working
right (and hopefully we'll have at least one or possibly two natural
gas injection systems to play with by the end of next week).


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 08:47:36 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Seeing as though I have now identified my carb as being a Vacuum 
Sec and I can relate to one of your scenarios, how do I fix it?
The scenario is when I floor it off the line it boggs and is very 
slow.  I do have an auto trans (350) but the converter is at 2000rpm.
What should I do?  Speaking of the trans, as I have raced it I found 
that my optimum shifting speed out of 1st is at 51mph.  Thats a bit 
high you think?  I don't have a tach so I don't know the rpms.  My 
best race time is at 16.00sec.  pathetic huh?

--
rapier@camelot.bradley.edu

"Well I guess it goes from God to Jerry to you to the cleaners.
                     Right, Kent?"
					--Real Genius

----------
Posted by: Jesse Vitell 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 13:31:32 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams) writes:
" Interestingly, the GT40s were built in England, though I forget if it
"was Broadley or Wyer who did them.  Anyway, just as happened with the
"Cobras, the Brits kept on making them for a while.  I have a 1988 info
"packet somewhere where you could buy a *brand new* GT40 Mark IV, made on
"the original tooling in the original plant.  The price had more zeroes
"than you'd want to know, and then figure it took three dollars to make a
"pound then...

john wyer, i believe.  when ford pulled out [they'd gotten all the pr
they could...] he picked up gulf as sponsor and called them mirages.
they continued to evolve.  tooling for the gt40 was just stored in the
back of the shop and dusted off in the late '80s, when an original
repro was marketable.

-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnews.cb.att.com!adh (andrew.d.hay)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 13:41:17 1993
Subject: Re:  fuel delivery
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 The high-end carb shops often massage the fuel inlet pieces of the carb to
improve maximum inlet flow. This includes relieving the float valve body,
maybe even adding outlet slots as well as enlarging, maybe redrilling the
center orifice as well. This is something that had best be "done clean"
to keep the float valve from leaking at low demand, high pressure. Take a
look at the race carbs that are set up for alcohol; all sorts of tricks of
this sort are applied.

 Holley fuel bowls are pretty much interchangeable; there is only one type
of gasket anyway. If you want dual feeds, try and find a 750 or larger
and swap. You also have the choice of side- or center-hung floats; center-hung
are probably better anywhere but the drag strip. You can buy replacement 
float valves and butcher them however you please to chase fuel flow.

 As far as fuel starvation under high demand or at random, maybe you want a
bypass/return regulator instead of a blocking regulator. Blow off any excess
fuel and return it to the tank. The regulator should be as close to the carb
as practical. A good fuel pump close to the fuel tank, 3/8" line up and 1/4"
back ought to keep the engine fed if the pump is pushing OK.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 13:52:41 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 There is typically very little flow at idle. I don't think you have a general
air flow problem if you get to 51MPH in first gear. I think your poor 1/4 mile
times are due to the initial hesitation.

 Your secondaries should not open until higher in the RPM range. Your first
problem is getting there. Killing the bog is a matter of adjusting the 
mixture via the main jets, accelerator pump cam, squirter and power valve.

 Does it really bog for a whole second, or is that a figure of speech? In 
my experience what I consider a "bog" is a transient loss of power or 
failure to respond, and lasts a second or less. Any sustained lack of power
points to a steady-state mixture/timing error under those conditions.
If the condition is really transient then its correction lies with the
accelerator pump circuit - squirter, cam, maybe the accelerator pump 
actuator lever spring and nut. 

 The Holley book sez not to adjust the spring, but this spring lets you tailor
the hardness/profile of the pump shot to some extent. Compressing the spring
by tightening the nut gives a faster, harder shot; loosening makes it come on
and tail off more slowly. If you feel like the car initially jumps, and then
bogs, then takes off again, you may want to soften the shot up some.

 Another thing I have noticed is that the standard Holley accelerator pump
cam (the green one) gives the entire shot right off idle; there is no mid-range
action. This may or may not be OK for your setup. One thing it does mean is
that if you are idling high on the primaries, you may not be in the working
range of the pump cam slope. The cam has a flat side and a round side :)
and all of the accelerator pump action results from the change in radius
at a given point. The green cam has an abrupt transition. Some others have 
a softer radius change profile; some continue to squirt through the entire
throttle angle. If you look at the follower arm that actuates the accelerator
pump, the arm should be resting on the flat section of the pump cam. If your
throttle is set high, it will be up on the "corner" of the cam; this means that 
you do not get the full shot intended; it's over before it starts. 

 The throttle lever has two holes for mounting the pump cam. The cam has
anywhere from 2-4 holes in its body. The combination lets you change the
angle the pump cam sits at, to move the accelerator pump profile relative to
the throttle angle. If you experiment with this you may find a better 
angle for your setup.

 I haven't ever found a quantitative description of how Holley pump cam 
profiles go. The best way I have found to judge profile is to pair or
stack them up and put a bit of wire or welding rod through the holes. You
can look at them side-on and sort of see the differences in profile, lift,
etc. I spent an afternoon swapping pump cams in and out, and it did improve
things quite a bit off the line. The package of pump cams is not real cheap
but might be worth playing with. I've never changed a squirter. The reason
to change squirters is if the quantity of fuel delivery is your problem
rather than the timing and profile of the shot. A bigger squirter will
hit harder but be over quicker given the same pump cam, spring adjustment,
etc. If you need less amplitude but more sustain, a bigger squirter will
take you in the wrong direction. 

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 14:04:02 1993
Subject: Re: Sonnet V4
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Dave Tartaglia  writes:
"If I remember correctly, that V4 was a Ford product. I believe it was also
"used in the German Taunus and the Euro-spec Capri, too. In rear drive
"configuration. 

anyone interested in the Real Story [tm] behind this?
well, here goes anyway:

ford of germany bought some saabs to evaluate fwd.  they didn't like
the ring-ding motor, so they put their own v4 in the nose.
when ford was finished [finnished? ;^>], saab bought the cars back to
evaluate the v4s.
this motor is a heavy 60 degree v, made by cutting 2 cylinders off the
very heavy 2.6/2.8L [and others] v6, ancestor of the current 2.9 &
4.0.
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!cbnews.cb.att.com!adh (andrew.d.hay)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 14:09:43 1993
Subject: holley carb on 12A
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Racing Beat uses 465 vac sec on stock and street ported 12A'S.  Rotary 
Engineering tells me they use 600's on stockers. I calculated the
airflow of my engine based on 80% volumetric efficiency, but unfortunately
this does no good since carbs are flowed at quite a high vacuum, giving
a high number for the flow rating. Because of this, I can't relate the two.
I don't want to use the kit racing beat sells to convert to dual feeds
because they want way too much for it. I must have dual feeds - the 
whole reason I am doing this is to eliminate fuel starvation. I'd rather
go overboard on the fuel system than throw the dice again. I tend to
think that my engine is ported more than racing beat does their engines
because they say there is a big difference between 12A's and 13B's. I have
not seen this. I guy I know has a 13B that is more ported than my 12A,
and a better exhaust system as well. I followed him to the shop once, a
trip for which he always runs full throttle the whole way, and he was unable 
to get me off his rear bumper. (until my fuel starvation set in).
(Both cars had about the same overall gearing and the same weight)
The bottom line is that I need dual feeds, and would prefer a vacuum carb
because they are cheaper (maybe) and more driveable, etc. A 750, though
too big, is dual feed and the price is right. A 600 is better except
that it is single feed. Maybe a used 600 converted to dual feed w/
secondary metering block? Anyone know what the cost of this is?

----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 14:28:37 1993
Subject: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I got a unique call today. fellow wanted to know if I'd be interested
in his buddy's car project.  Seems they've transplanted the turbine engine
from a Bell Jet Ranger helicoptor into a Trans-Am and they use the 
thing to prowl the streets of Tulsa.  Hmmmm.

Anyway, the guy that did this is supposed to call me with more details.

73 John

-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
jgd@dixie.com                        | perform@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 16:40:45 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> john wyer, i believe.  when ford pulled out [they'd gotten all the pr
-> they could...] he picked up gulf as sponsor and called them mirages.
-> they continued to evolve.  tooling for the gt40 was just stored in
-> the back of the shop and dusted off in the late '80s, when an
-> original repro was marketable.

 It's amazing how that sort of tooling manages to survive.  Makes you
wonder if Lance Reventlow's Scarab tooling is rusting in someone's
garage in California, or whatever.

 I used to think I had a bunch of junk around until I saw magazine
articles on AJ Foyt, Smokey Yunick, and Mickey Thompson (RIP).  I guess
when you have 40-odd years of collecting and a couple of cow barns to
put it in, stuff *would* tend to build up.  What amazed me about
Thompson's junk pile was the number of complete cars - having a $70,000
car that hit the wall at 140mph, most people would scrounge it for
parts.  Thompson just towed 'em behind the barn and dumped them.
                                                                                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 16:45:52 1993
Subject: LAWNMOWERS from HELL!!!!
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I saw the ultimate L.F.H. the other day on the news. It was a  
Smallturbine engined riding mower making about 160 hp according to  
the owner. The guy was hanging wheelies in his yard on the newsclip  
and he also stated that it would go 60 mph. The funny thing was,  
across the front of the mower was an emblem which said "DIXIE MOWER".  
Hey John, are you hiding something from us?

[I'll never tell. :-)  I will tell about the "lawn mower" I helped my
French teacher's husband build when I was in high school (helped==welded 
some stuff for him).  Running gear was some kind of old car from the
junk yard that had a full chassis.  A large block chevy supplied power.
There was an extra transmission in the drive shaft so the thing could
go reasonably slow and have several gears in reverse.  High float tires
all around.  The cutting head consisted of THREE of those huge triple
blad bushhog heads like the highway departments use mounted in a kinda
triangle with about 10% overlap.  They were all geared together with
motorcycle-type chain and driven from the harmonic balancer.

This sucker cooked!  The blade tips popped like an airplane prop when the
tips go supersonic.  It would mow at about 30 mph.  His goal was to be
able to cut his 100 acre "yard" in two hours.  I think he just about 
made it :-)  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!phoenix.az.stratus.com!scol (Scott Colbath)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 16:54:35 1993
Subject: Re: valve seats
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dave, I'm not sure if you are aware of it but the Berylium-copper
alloy is EXTREMELY toxic. A few whiffes of it as it is machined and
you'll never recover. Use a full blown respirator. 
The aerospace and jet industries usually have scraps floating around.

***************************************************************
Millam E. Tackitt                        met@naucse.cse.nau.edu

1967 Cougar XR-7 271/289 4spd/CR 4spd
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 3-dueces and an Auto 
1953 3/4 ton Chevy pickumup truck
1968 Galaxie XL-GT 345/390 Auto (SPORT console)
***************************************************************

----------
Posted by: emory!naucse.cse.nau.edu!met (Millam Tackitt)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 17:30:50 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

->Subject: Re: Fastest Car?
->Posted-Date: Saturday, Feb 20 01:15:43
->
->-> 289 Cobra, a 427 Cobra (the 425 hp dual quad one), and a GT40.  He
->-> told me that there were seven (7) left in the world at that time, and
->-> knew the serial numbers and owner's names of each.
-> I think he may have been referring to the Cobra Daytona Coupe, not the
->GT40.  There were only half a dozen or so Coupes.  There were *lots* of
->GT40s.
->
-> Interestingly, the GT40s were built in England, though I forget if it
->was Broadley or Wyer who did them.  Anyway, just as happened with the
->Cobras, the Brits kept on making them for a while.  I have a 1988 info
->packet somewhere where you could buy a *brand new* GT40 Mark IV, made on
->the original tooling in the original plant.  The price had more zeroes
->than you'd want to know, and then figure it took three dollars to make a
->pound then...
->                                     
I have an article from the L.A. Times (approx. date 1/29/93) on Carroll Shelby
and his heart transplant and recent work on "The Shelby Heart Fund".  It
mentions his fund raising efforts hinge on his mechanical left-overs from
the Cobra.  Apparently he has been storing a stack of original Cobra
chassis (43 to be exact) and engines.  Imagine 43 mint, zero-miles, never
driven Cobra 427SCs.  He says in the article that it costs him $150,000 to
assemble each car, the selling price being $500,000 netting the heart
fund $350,000 per car.  He says he's had offers from Japan to buy all the
cars but will not create a monopoly on the cars that would damage the market
and diminish the image of the car.  He has sold two of the six sold so far
to a Japanese collector and will keep two, including the first of the new
issue. He says, "I'll sell two or three a year, and not to speculators or
someone who wants to bury the car in a private collection.  I want the car
to be driven at vintage racing events". 

I like this guys approach to historic automobiles and racing.  Let's see, if
I sell the house I'm 1/5th of the way there.  Now if I can just work out 
a payment schedule with him  :-)  He is going to make some auto enthusiasts
pretty damn happy.  Maybe the Clinton Administration could buy all of them
and raffle 'em off as a way of reducing the budget deficit.  Now my 
pre-occupation is getting me rambling .....

-tom 

----------
Posted by: emory!msc.edu!tom (Tom Kroeten)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 17:33:47 1993
Subject: Re: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> or so is stoich for natural gas).  At 4400, its 25:1 and the tach
-> pretty much stops moving.  Damn CNG carb (Impco at the moment).

 Is this a limit on the air or fuel flow of the carb?  Why not run two
of them?
                                                                                   

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 17:53:51 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> 
> I got a unique call today. fellow wanted to know if I'd be interested
> in his buddy's car project.  Seems they've transplanted the turbine engine
> from a Bell Jet Ranger helicoptor into a Trans-Am and they use the 
> thing to prowl the streets of Tulsa.  Hmmmm.
> ----------
> Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
> 
The Tucker Lives Again!

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 17:58:35 1993
Subject: Re:  fuel delivery
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

James W. Swonger writes:
" As far as fuel starvation under high demand or at random, maybe you want a
bypass/return regulator instead of a blocking regulator. Blow off any excess
fuel and return it to the tank. The regulator should be as close to the carb
as practical. A good fuel pump close to the fuel tank, 3/8" line up and 1/4"
back ought to keep the engine fed if the pump is pushing OK."

This is an excellent idea, one which I've been meaning to implement.

After I discovered that the factory pump would produce a nice 5 PSI
at 2000 RPM cruising but only 1.2 PSI at 5500 RPM WOT I decided to
improve that situation.  I installed an 8 PSI mechanical fuel pump
and a Holley blocking regulator set to 5 PSI.

However, this setup has a problem.  It tends to vapor lock.  I made
some improvement in the vapor lock problem by installing a fixed
orifice bypass (I used a .055 hole) back to the fuel tank but there
are still times when it does vapor lock.

This brings me to my question - who makes a bypassing regulator
that is adjustable in the 4.0 to 5.5 PSI range?  I want a regulator
with three connections - in, out, and bypass out.  The adjustment
need not be easy - it's a set and forget operation so I should
only need to do it once.

Thanks for the help.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net

[Kenne Belle makes 'em for fuel injection but they're expensive - about $100.
What I use is the poor man's solution.  Usually the regulator has 2 inlets
or if not, a tee can be added.  Fuel goes in one inlet and on the other
inlet is installed a small jet sized such that pressure is maintained
at the max flow to the carb.  This line is the return to the tank.
The short line between the regulator and carb is still dead-headed
but it would be with the bypass regulator too.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 18:03:36 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List
> 
> I got a unique call today. fellow wanted to know if I'd be interested
> in his buddy's car project.  Seems they've transplanted the turbine engine
> from a Bell Jet Ranger helicoptor into a Trans-Am and they use the 
> thing to prowl the streets of Tulsa.  Hmmmm.
> 
> Anyway, the guy that did this is supposed to call me with more details.

Shit, If I had the time, I'd get started on that article idea on my friends
turbine powered boat (the one that uses two of those very same engines.)
We could have a turbine extravaganza...

The slick thing about those engines (all 1275 hp of them :-)
is that they have a super-simple output shaft.  Just slip on
the mating pline and your off.  I can't image what that would 
be like on the street.  Even a Turbo-Hydramatic 400 is only sooo
strong :-)

DAVE (johnson@wrs.com) Internet Z-Club member #51

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 18:08:48 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> Seeing as though I have now identified my carb as being a Vacuum 
> Sec and I can relate to one of your scenarios, how do I fix it?
> The scenario is when I floor it off the line it boggs and is very 
> slow.  I do have an auto trans (350) but the converter is at 2000rpm.
> What should I do?  Speaking of the trans, as I have raced it I found 
> that my optimum shifting speed out of 1st is at 51mph.  Thats a bit 
> high you think?  I don't have a tach so I don't know the rpms.  My 
> best race time is at 16.00sec.  pathetic huh?

I'd start out with getting a spring kit for the secondaries, and 
trying progessively stiffer springs until the bog is gone.
16sec ain't too bad depending on what your running...  A friend with a
66 'Stang with a mildy hopped up 289 ran 17.23 saturday--thats bad.
> 
> rapier@camelot.bradley.edu


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 21:03:34 1993
Subject: holley on rotary
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

One point of interest - on a rotary, the carb sits  sideways (primary on
the left, secondary on the right) This is not they way Holley's are  really
meant to mount, hence the need for  dual feeds. I have a Holley regulator
and Mallory pump. The fuel line has no kinks, etc. I believe this to be
more than enough for the 12A. The whole reason I am changing to a Holley
is too eliminate fuel starvation, so I'm not going to even try side hung
single feed setup. I have learned enough about fuel delivery to confirm
my suspicions that many show cars  are not meant to be driven (4 webers
on a big blobk  with one of those little chrome regulators with the
knob on top? I don't think so)

----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 21:04:20 1993
Subject: Re:  never driven Cobra 427SCs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

There are two other aspects of this story that make it much more
interesting. First, is that Ole Shel' apparently has had to remake a
bunch of the tooling for parts where the original tooling was lost and
the aftermarket suppliers either don't have anything or it's not up to
snuff. This makes the folks with earlier (original? :-) 427s happy.

Second, rumor has it that the frames were registered at the time of
manufacturing. Seems that the 427SC VIN-equivalent was the frame number
(this is before Uncle stepped in and demanded a uniform VIN scheme). So
the frames are registered and titled as of 1965 or so, which means that
they are free of smog regulations. Not only will the be never-driven
Cobra 427SCs, they will be never-driven 427SCs with 1965 safety and
emissions requirements.

I remember him saying he was keeping one for himself and one for each
of his grandchildren... not a bad present!

----------
Posted by: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 21:06:47 1993
Subject: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> in his buddy's car project.  Seems they've transplanted the turbine
-> engine from a Bell Jet Ranger helicoptor into a Trans-Am and they use
-> the thing to prowl the streets of Tulsa.  Hmmmm.
-> Anyway, the guy that did this is supposed to call me with more
-> details.

 Verrry interesting.  I'd be interested in how they're hooking it to the
rear wheels - the old Chrysler Turbines used lots of reduction gears and
a variable-pitch torque convertor, best as I can remember.
                                                                                               

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 21:10:44 1993
Subject: Re: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

That sounds like a little too much horsepower for two Jet Ranger
turbines.  About half that figure is closer for two. Mike Brattland

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Mon Feb 22 21:15:28 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

James W. Swonger writes:
" I haven't ever found a quantitative description of how Holley pump cam 
profiles go."

I understand that one of the Holley books has quantitative data
for these cams.  However, I didn't have the book and I needed
some data so I measured a bunch of them and tabulated the results.

My method was to fit a dial indicator so that I could read the
lift at the cam follower and then to measure the lift as I moved the
throttle to each of the fast idle steps on the choke cam.  I don't
have the table with me but if someone is interested I will dig it
up and post it.  My findings were that the #2 hole in the cam
always gave a larger/sooner shot of fuel than the #1 hole.  The
difference between the #1 and #2 holes was greater than the
difference between cams so if you just wanted a small change you
needed to swap cams but a large change could sometimes be done
just by changing mounting holes.

Better yet, if someone has the Holley book maybe they would be
willing to post the factory data.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!merlin.gatech.edu!ucsd!btree!hale (hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 00:35:22 1993
Subject: Re: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List
> 
> That sounds like a little too much horsepower for two Jet Ranger
> turbines.  About half that figure is closer for two. Mike Brattland

I guess the military jobs have different powerplants.

DAVE (johnson@wrs.com) Internet Z-Club member #51

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 00:44:08 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>I'd start out with getting a spring kit for the secondaries, and 
>trying progessively stiffer springs until the bog is gone.
>16sec ain't too bad depending on what your running...  A friend with a
>66 'Stang with a mildy hopped up 289 ran 17.23 saturday--thats bad.
>
>--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
>    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /

17 seconds?  I guess I don't feel too bad now.  Well Ive played with 
the carb and have replaced an engine mount.  Unfortunately I have 
to replace the other one cause now my engine is on a slant!!!  But 
now the car *seems* faster.  I think my problem is pretty much cured 
now.  Its too bad I can't really tell cause there is such bad weather 
here in Peoria, Ill.

--
rapier@camelot.bradley.edu

"Up your butt, Jobu!"
			--Major League

----------
Posted by: Jesse Vitell 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 00:49:39 1993
Subject: Re: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> 
> -> or so is stoich for natural gas).  At 4400, its 25:1 and the tach
> -> pretty much stops moving.  Damn CNG carb (Impco at the moment).
> 
>  Is this a limit on the air or fuel flow of the carb?  Why not run two
> of them?

Its a fuel flow problem...  very poor design of the second stage regulator
(PEV) that feeds the carb.  Running two will help.  Were supposed to be
getting a really trick controller for the Impco, and we see what it does
(have no idea how it works at the moment), and are also trying to get a
couple of CNG injection systems (major problem is that nobodies' controllers
are designed anything besides the stock engine, and no one has been
willing to give us calibration software).  At this point, tho, I think
the improperly calibrated setup would be working much better than the
friggin carbs.  (insert light bulb).  GUess I ought to bolt it on and
find out.
We also have an airflow restriction (carb will supposedly flow 460cfm),
but we shouldn't be hitting that yet.  
Also discovered tonight that a couple of plug wires are bad (arc'ing
thru cracks in the insulation), so that is probably majorly contributing
to the low power output, but still doesn't explain the readings on
the Horiba.


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 00:53:26 1993
Subject: Re: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> 
> -> or so is stoich for natural gas).  At 4400, its 25:1 and the tach
> -> pretty much stops moving.  Damn CNG carb (Impco at the moment).
> 
>  Is this a limit on the air or fuel flow of the carb?  Why not run two
> of them?

Its a fuel flow problem...  very poor design of the second stage regulator
(PEV) that feeds the carb.  Running two will help.  Were supposed to be
getting a really trick controller for the Impco, and we see what it does
(have no idea how it works at the moment), and are also trying to get a
couple of CNG injection systems (major problem is that nobodies' controllers
are designed anything besides the stock engine, and no one has been
willing to give us calibration software).  At this point, tho, I think
the improperly calibrated setup would be working much better than the
friggin carbs.  (insert light bulb).  GUess I ought to bolt it on and
find out.
We also have an airflow restriction (carb will supposedly flow 460cfm),
but we shouldn't be hitting that yet.  
Also discovered tonight that a couple of plug wires are bad (arc'ing
thru cracks in the insulation), so that is probably majorly contributing
to the low power output, but still doesn't explain the readings on
the Horiba.


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 08:46:02 1993
Subject: Re: valve seats
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I'm glad sombody else posted about ber-cu.  I've heard that its the ber
part thats really toxic.  

The only two uses I know of for the stuff is laser mirrors holders --
I have held these -- and high performance aircraft brakes.  The brakes
were just like motorcycle basket clutches, with one part connected
to the wheel ( the basket ) and the other part connected to the strut.

Very high surface area, good strenght and good hot strength.  Not much
heat capacity.  I think the piston just rides on one plate and compresses 
the stack.

The laser mirror holders were machined round, then castellated, then acid
dipped.  The rejects I saw spent a few too many tenths of a second in 
the bath.

	 Frank Evan Perdicaro 				Xyvision Color Systems
      Legalize guns, drugs and cash...today.		101 Edgewater Drive
   inhouse: frank@marvin, x5572				Wakefield MA
outhouse: frank@contex.com, 617-245-4100x5572		018801285


[WARNING:  This is long.

Strangely enough, a discussion about Cu-Be has been going on on the net so
it got my interest up.  Cu-Be is a very common alloy, used in all kinds
of stuff.  Not really knowing anything about the toxic properties of the 
alloy, I consulted an MSDS database.  This database entry is about
as pessimistic as things can get, hosting dire warnings about "sand, washed
and dried".  Nontheless, here it is unedited in all its glory and splendor.
Summary:  This stuff doesn't look very bad unless you grind it and snort
it.  A lot of the warning text is boilerplate that appears unchanged 
throughout this database. 

-----------------
                           material safety data sheet
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            substance identification

 substance: beryllium-copper master alloy

 trade names/synonyms:
   ohs02945

 cercla ratings (scale 0-3):  health=3  fire=3  reactivity=0  persistence=3
 nfpa ratings (scale 0-4):  health=3  fire=3  reactivity=0
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                           components and contaminants

 component: copper                                          percent: > 94.85
            cas# 7440-50-8

 component: beryllium                                       percent: 3.75-4.50
            cas# 7440-41-7

 component: iron                                            percent: <  0.15
            cas# 7439-89-6

 component: aluminum                                        percent: <  0.13
            cas# 7429-90-5

 component: silicon                                         percent: <  0.15
            cas# 7631-86-9

 component: tin                                             percent: <  0.03
            cas# 7440-31-5

 component: lead                                            percent: <  0.01
            cas# 7439-92-1

 component: nickel                                          percent: <  0.05
            cas# 7440-02-0

 component: chromium                                        percent: <  0.02
            cas# 7440-47-3

 component: cobalt                                          percent: <  0.10
            cas# 7440-48-4

 component: zinc                                            percent: <  0.03
            cas# 7440-39-3

 exposure limits:
 copper (dust and mist):
   1 mg(cu)/m3 osha twa
   1 mg(cu)/m3 acgih twa

 beryllium and compounds, (as be):
   2 ug/m3 osha twa; 5 ug/m3 osha ceiling; 25 ug/m3/30 minutes osha peak
   2 ug/m3 acgih twa
   acgih a2-suspected human carcinogen.
   not to exceed 0.5 ug/m3 niosh recommended exposure criteria

   measurement method: particulate filter; acid; flameless atomic absorption
   with a high-temperature graphite analyzer; (niosh vol. iii # 7102).

   subject to sara section 313 annual toxic chemical release reporting
   subject to california proposition 65 cancer and/or reproductive toxicity
     warning and release requirements- (october 1, 1987)

 **osha limits adopted january 19, 1989 are subject to the decision of the
   11th circuit court of appeals (afl-cio v. osha) as of july 7, 1992.**

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  physical data

 description: reddish, ductile, malleable metal

 solubility in water: insoluble

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                             fire and explosion data

 fire and explosion hazard:
 dangerous fire hazard when exposed to heat or flame.



 firefighting media:
 use dry sand, dolomite, graphite, sodium chloride, soda ash, or appropriate
 metal-extinguishing powder. do not apply water to burning material (nfpa
 fire protection handbook, 16th edition).

 firefighting:
 move container from fire area if you can do it without risk. apply cooling
 water to sides of containers that are exposed to flames until well after fire
 is out. stay away from ends of tanks. for massive fire in cargo area, use
 unmanned hose holder or monitor nozzles; if this is impossible, withdraw from
 area and let fire burn (1990 emergency response guidebook, dot p 5800.5,
 guide page 32).

 extinguish using agent for type of fire. avoid breathing fumes from burning
 material.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                               transportation data

 department of transportation hazard classification 49-cfr 172.101:
   *flammable solid

 department of transportation labeling requirements 49-cfr 172.101 and
 subpart e:
   *flammable solid

   *hazard classification and label apply to dust and powder form only.

 department of transportation packaging requirements: 49-cfr 173.154
 exceptions: 49-cfr 173.153

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    toxicity

 copper:
 toxicity data: 120 ug/kg oral-human tdlo; 3500 ug/kg intraperitoneal-mouse
   ld50; reproductive effects data (rtecs); tumorigenic data (rtecs).
 carcinogen status: none.
 local effects: irritant- inhalation, eye.
 acute toxicity level: insufficient data.
 target effects: poisoning may affect the liver and kidneys.
 at increased risk from exposure: persons with pre-existing respiratory,
   liver, kidney, skin, and blood disorders or wilson's disease.

 beryllium:
 toxicity data: 496 ug/kg intravenous-rat ld50; mutagenic data (rtecs);
   tumorigenic data (rtecs).
 carcinogen status: anticipated human carcinogen (ntp); human limited evidence,
   animal sufficient evidence (iarc group-2a). beryllium metal produced
   lung tumors in rats exposed intratracheally, and osteosarcomas in rabbits
   by intravenous or intramedullary routes. the epidemiological evidence
   that occupational exposure to beryllium may lead to an increased lung
   cancer risk is limited.
 local effects: irritant- inhalation, skin, eyes.
 acute toxicity level: insufficient data.
 target effects: sensitizer- respiratory. poisoning may affect the spleen,
   liver, kidneys, and heart.
 at increased risk from exposure: persons with chronic lung disease.
 additional data: may cross the placenta. contact with beryllium compounds
   may exacerbate a preexisting berylliosis condition.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          health effects and first aid

 inhalation:
 copper:
 irritant.
   acute exposure- powdered dust may cause irritation of the upper respiratory
     tract and ulceration and perforation of the nasal septum. a feeling of
     illness similar to the common cold has been reported with symptoms of
     chills and stuffiness of the head. workers exposed to copper dust in
     concentrations of 0.075 to 0.120 mg/m3 complained of mild nasal
     discomfort. exposure to copper fume may cause irritation to the mucous
     membranes. freshly formed copper fumes may cause metal fume fever.
     symptoms may include a sweet, metallic, or foul taste in the mouth, dry
     throat, coughing, fever, chills, muscle aches, weakness, lassitude,
     nausea, rarely vomiting, mild to severe headaches, and sometimes
     exaggerated mental activity. workers exposed to concentrations of 1 to 3
     mg/m3 experienced an altered taste response but no nausea.
   chronic exposure- prolonged industrial exposure may cause a green
     discoloration of the skin, hair and teeth. welders exposed to copper fume
     experienced atrophic rhinitis, metallic taste, runny nose, and mucosal
     irritation of the mouth and eyes. it is inconclusive as to whether
     prolonged exposure has any affect on the nervous system. a small number
     of studies suggest an affinity of copper for the sympathetic system,
     however, there is no proof that chronic poisoning will affect either the
     central or peripheral nervous system.

 beryllium:
 irritant/sensitizer/carcinogen.
 10 mg/m3 immediately dangerous to life or health.
   acute exposure- brief, intense exposure to pulmonary irritants may cause
     severe chemical pneumonitis. symptoms may include bronchial spasm,
     nasopharyngitis, tracheobronchitis, cough, blood tinged sputum, dyspnea,
     cyanosis, nasal discharge, fever, anorexia, fatigue, tachycardia and
     possibly cor pulmonale. fatal pulmonary edema or spontaneous pneumothorax
     have been reported. studies in rats indicate a severe, chemical
     pneumonitis followed by a quiescent period of minimal inflammation and
     mild fibrosis occurs. later, progressive fibrosing pneumonitis was
     observed in these rats. with sufficient exposure, effects as detailed in
     chronic exposure may occur.

   chronic exposure- in addition to the effects described in acute exposure,
     prolonged or repeated exposure may cause "berylliosis", a disorder that
     generally affects the upper and lower respiratory tract, but the onset may
     be marked by weakness, fatigue, and weight loss with or with dyspnea.
     symptoms may be delayed from 1-25 years from exposure and may be
     precipitated by additional physical stress. signs of pulmonary
     insufficiency and systemic effects may occur including dyspnea on
     on exertion or at rest, burning chest pain, constant non-productive
     hacking cough, wheezing, clubbing of fingers, low blood pressure,
     enlarged liver, spleen and parotid gland, osteoarthropathy, increase in
     hematocrit, elevated serum uric acid, nephrolithiasis, hypercalciuria
     with or without stones, hypercalcemia, spontaneous skin lesions, and
     cor pulmonale due to increasing pulmonary fibrosis and pulmonary
     resistance. less common effects may include hemoptysis, seizure disorders
     and palpitations. severely disabled persons may show cachexia and signs of
     right heart impairment with severe non-productive cough, spontaneous
     pneumothorax, and bouts of chills and fever. death may be due to cardiac
     or respiratory failure, or in rare cases, renal failure. pathological
     findings include extrapulmonary changes of focal granulomatous lesions in
     the abdominal lymph nodes, spleen, liver, and bone marrow, as well as
     renal involvement. human studies indicate that berylliosis may be a
     disease resulting from pulmonary sensitization and responding with
     inflammatory changes which tend to be granulomatous. cumulative exposure
     to beryllium has produced decreased lung function that is distinct from
     berylliosis. epidemiological studies show an excess of lung cancer in
     white males occupationally exposed to beryllium or beryllium compounds.

 first aid- remove from exposure area to fresh air immediately. if breathing
   has stopped, perform artificial respiration. keep person warm and at rest.
   treat symptomatically and supportively. get medical attention immediately.

 skin contact:
 copper:
   acute exposure- may be irritating and cause keratinization. allergic
     dermatitis although rare, has been reported. dermal absorption is
     negligible through intact skin.
   chronic exposure- repeated or prolonged contact may cause irritation and
     discoloration of the skin.

 beryllium:
 irritant.
   acute exposure- may cause irritation. sensitization is reported to not
     occur from contact of intact skin with beryllium metal. however,
     accidential implantation of particles beneath the skin may cause necrosis
     of adjacent tissue, formation of ulcer, and granulomatous hypersensitivity
     reaction.
   chronic exposure- repeated exposure to irritants may cause dermatitis.

 first aid- remove contaminated clothing and shoes immediately. wash affected
   area with soap or mild detergent and large amounts of water until no
   evidence of chemical remains (approximately 15-20 minutes). get medical
   attention immediately.

 eye contact:
 copper:
 irritant.
   acute exposure- the dust may cause irritation with redness and pain. copper
     particles in the eye may result in a foreign body response with
     characteristic discoloration of ocular tissue, degeneration and/or
     detachment of the retina, and atrophy of the globe.
   chronic exposure- repeated or prolonged exposure to irritants may cause
     conjunctivitis.

 beryllium:
 irritant.
   acute exposure- contact with dust may cause conjunctival inflammation.
     introduction into corneas of rabbits produced slight clouding of the
     surrounding cornea.
   chronic exposure- may cause conjunctivitis and possibly severe periorbital
     edema.

 first aid- wash eyes immediately with large amounts of water or normal saline,
   occasionally lifting upper and lower lids, until no evidence of chemical
   remains (approximately 15-20 minutes). get medical attention immediately.

 ingestion:
 copper:
   acute exposure- 120 ug/kg ingested by a human caused gastrointestinal
     disorder with nausea and vomiting.
   chronic exposure- copper is an essential element and is found in most human
     diets in minute amounts. prolonged ingestion through the diet is not known
     to cause toxic effects except in people with a recessive gene disorder
     termed wilson's disease which causes an abnormally high absorption,
     retention, and storage of copper by the body. this disease may cause a
     dysfunction of and structural damage to the liver, central nervous system,
     kidney, bones and eyes. the disease is usually progressive and may be
     fatal if left untreated. reproductive effects have been reported in
     animals.

 beryllium:
   acute exposure- may cause coughing and shortness of breath. experimental
     evidence suggest that little beryllium is absorbed from the
     gastrointestinal tract.
   chronic exposure- in animal studies, beryllium metal eaten in the diet at
     a level of 5% is so poorly absorbed that no effect on growth occurred over
     long periods of feeding. however, beryllium tends to displace magnesium
     in the body after a prolonged period of time.

 first aid- treat symptomatically and supportively. get medical attention
   immediately. if vomiting occurs, keep head lower than hips to prevent
   aspiration.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                   reactivity

 reactivity:
 stable under normal temperatures and pressures.

 incompatibilities:
 copper:
   acetylene: forms explosive copper acetylide.
   acetylenic compounds: formation of explosive acetylides.
   aluminum + sulfur: possible explosion.
   ammonium nitrate: violent or explosive reaction.
   barium bromate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   barium chlorate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   barium iodate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   1-bromo-2-propyne: formation of explosive compound.
   calcium bromate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   calcium chlorate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   calcium iodate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   chlorates: explosive reaction.
   chlorine: ignition reaction.
   chlorine + oxygen difluoride: explosive reaction at -10 c.
   chlorine trifluoride: intense reaction with possible ignition.
   dimethyl sulfoxide + trichloroacetic acid: possible explosion.
   ethylene oxide: possible explosion.
   fluorine: ignition reaction.
   hydrazinium nitrate: ignition reaction.
   hydrazoic acid: possible explosion.
   hydrogen peroxide: violent decomposition.
   hydrogen sulfide: intense exothermic reaction with possible ignition.
   lead azide: forms explosive copper azide.
   magnesium bromate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   magnesium chlorate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   magnesium iodate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   phosphorus: incandescent reaction.
   potassium bromate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   potassium chlorate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   potassium dioxide: incandescent reaction.
   potassium iodate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   sodium azide: forms explosive compound.
   sodium bromate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   sodium chlorate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   sodium iodate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   sodium peroxide: incandescent reaction.
   sulfur + chlorates: spontaneous explosion.
   sulfuric acid: intense reaction.
   zinc bromate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   zinc chlorate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.
   zinc iodate: explosive reaction by heat, impact or friction.

 beryllium:
   acids (strong): reacts to produce flammable hydrogen gas.
   alkali metals: reacts to form salts.
   bases (strong): attacked and evolves flammable hydrogen gas.
   carbon dioxide: violent reaction.
   carbon dioxide & nitrogen: may ignite on heating.
   carbon tetrachloride: forms shock-sensitive mixture.
   chlorine: incandescent reaction when heated.
   fluorine: incandescent reaction when heated.
   halides: reacts.
   halocarbon solvents: may form shock-sensitive mixtures.
   hydrochloric acid: reacts with finely divided or amalgamated beryllium.
   lithium: severely attacks beryllium metal.
   nitric acid (dilute): reacts with finely divided or amalgamated beryllium.
   oxidizers: reacts vigorously.
   phosphorus: incandescent reaction on heating.
   sulfuric acid (dilute): reacts with finely divided or amalgamated beryllium.
   trichloroethylene: forms shock-sensitive mixture.

 decomposition:
 copper:
 thermal decomposition may release toxic and/or hazardous gases.

 thermal decomposition releases highly toxic fumes of beryllium oxide.

 polymerization:
 hazardous polymerization has not been reported to occur under normal
 temperatures and pressures.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              storage and disposal

 observe all federal, state and local regulations when storing or disposing
 of this substance. for assistance, contact the district director of the
 environmental protection agency.


                                  **storage**

 store away from incompatible substances.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              conditions to avoid

 avoid dispersion of dust in air. finely divided particles, dust, or fumes may
 be flammable or explosive. keep away from sparks or ignition sources.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            spill and leak procedures

 water spill:
 the california safe drinking water and toxic enforcement act of 1986
 (proposition 65) prohibits contaminating any known source of drinking water
 with substances known to cause cancer and/or reproductive toxicity.

 occupational spill:
 residue should be cleaned up using a high-efficiency particulate filter
 vacuum.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              protective equipment

 ventilation:
 process enclosure ventilation recommended to meet published exposure limits.
 ventilation equipment must be explosion-proof.

 respirator:
 the following respirators are recommended based on information found in the
   physical data, toxicity and health effects sections. they are ranked in
   order from minimum to maximum respiratory protection.
 the specific respirator selected must be based on contamination levels found
   in the work place, must be based on the specific operation, must not exceed
   the working limits of the respirator and must be jointly approved by the
   national institute for occupational safety and health and the mine safety
   and health administration (niosh-msha).


   any dust, mist, and fume respirator.

   any chemical cartridge respirator with a dust, mist, and fume filter.

   any powered air-purifying respirator with a dust, mist, and fume filter.

   any type 'c' supplied-air respirator with a full facepiece operated in
     pressure-demand or other positive pressure mode or with a full facepiece,
     helmet or hood operated in continuous-flow mode.

   any self-contained breathing apparatus with a full face piece operated in
     pressure-demand or other positive pressure mode.

 for firefighting and other immediately dangerous to life or health conditions:

   any self-contained breathing apparatus that has a full facepiece and is
     operated in a pressure-demand or other positive-pressure mode.

   any supplied-air respirator that has a full facepiece and is operated in a
     pressure-demand or other positive-pressure mode in combination with an
     auxiliary self-contained breathing apparatus operated in pressure-demand
     or other positive-pressure mode.

 clothing:
 employee must wear appropriate protective (impervious) clothing and equipment
 to prevent repeated or prolonged skin contact with this substance.

 gloves:
 employee must wear appropriate protective gloves to prevent contact with this
 substance.


 eye protection:
 employee must wear splash-proof or dust-resistant safety goggles and a
 faceshield to prevent contact with this substance.

 emergency wash facilities:
 where there is any possibility that an employee's eyes and/or skin may be
 exposed to this substance, the employer should provide an eye wash fountain
 and quick drench shower within the immediate work area for emergency use.

JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!contex!marvin.contex.com!frank (Frank Perdicaro)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 10:01:31 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> mentions his fund raising efforts hinge on his mechanical left-overs
-> fromthe Co chassis (43 to be exact) and engines.  Imagine 43 mint,
-> zero-miles, never driven Cobra 427SCs.

 I have read this in several places, but as far as I can tell from
reading the Code of Federal Regulations and the packet the DOT sent me
along with my manufacturer's certificate, those cars will have to be
titled as 1993s if they're put on the street.  Back in '68 you could
assemble anything you wanted, stamp your lucky number on it for a serial
number, and that was that.  Nowadays you're assigned a Federal
manufacturer ID and a range of numbers and a checking algorithm to
verify real serial numbers.

 Since the cars were never completed or titled, it's doubtful the DOT
would recognize them as 1968 models, no matter how long ago the chassis
was built.  Here in Arkansas there'd be no problem registering a
non-EPA, non-DOT car, but in Smog Gestapo states it might be a bitch.


 Sure, even if they are real NOS Cobra chassis, that doesn't mean much.
Besides, you can buy a real AC for less, and it *is* the Real Thing
(tm), except they don't have the rights to the Cobra name.

 I always liked the Frua-bodied AC 428 coupe, too.   
                                                                                                        

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 10:06:31 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> The Tucker Lives Again!

 Chrysler Turbine Car, maybe, but the Tucker was a rear engined, air
cooled flat six (eight?), used an aircraft engine for power.  Of course,
back during the '20s and '30s, it wasn't all that unusual to see
Continental or Lycoming motors in cars.

 Hey, does anyone remember the name of a movie from the mid'60s about
some hot rodder who built a turbine car and entered it in some sort of
road race or rally?  I saw it when I was a kid, but I never knew the
name of the movie.
                                                                  
[Hmm, Well, Andy Granitelli built an Indy car that ran so good they banned
it but I can't recall a movie about it.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 10:12:02 1993
Subject: Re: Transbrakes (was Triathlon of Motor Sports)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 > 
> >>... A motorcycles-and-steamrollers Pro-"Street" car with all its
> >>stopping power in the transbrake and 'chute would have to run negative
> >                       ^^^^^^^^^^
> >This is a joke, right?  The transbrakes I am familiar with provide
> >a "clutch-like" mechanism for launching automatic-transmission equipped
> >vechicles by "holding" the transmission between 1st and reverse gears.
> >...
> 

Actually most well built steam rollers (funny cars) have a greatly improved
breaking system over stock.  If your going to travel at 200 or more miles
per hour you better be able to stop it.  And as far as keeping it stopped
how do you think they hold them back on the line when there pumping 1,000
plus horsepower out?

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 10:17:18 1993
Subject: Re: holley carb on 12A
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>. A 750, though
> too big, is dual feed and the price is right. A 600 is better except
> that it is single feed. Maybe a used 600 converted to dual feed w/
> secondary metering block? Anyone know what the cost of this is?

A 600 double pumper costs about $198.   HLY-0-4776
A 650 double pumper costs about $212    HLY-0-4777
A 600 series 4160 universal 4 V $133	HYL-0-1850
A 600 series 4010 Square bore   $157    HYL-o-84010
A 750 smallest dominator        $395    HYL-0-80186

These prices are rough comparisons and may vary by location and time of
odering.
  

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 10:21:23 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 > 
>  There is typically very little flow at idle. I don't think you have a general
> air flow problem if you get to 51MPH in first gear. I think your poor 1/4 mile
> times are due to the initial hesitation.
> 
Sorry to disappoint everey one but this sounds more like a poor gear selection
problem to me.  %1 mph in first gear depending on the transmission ratio 
is awfull fast for a drag type vecicle.  Sounds more like a car built for top 
speed rather than 1/4 mile performance.  If the engine is not putting out 
enough torque to overcome the initial inertia of standing still this initial
torque can be increased be reducing to a numerically higher rear axle ratio.
An example is a change from 3.23 gears to 4.88 gears would increase torque
on the line by 50 percent and bring the speed in 1 st gear down to around
34 miles per hour.  If the first gear ratio we are talking about is 2.66
then the top speed would be around 90 miles per hour or ET range of 14.3
to 16.00 sec.  However On a street transmission this is more likely to be
between a 3.27 ratio and a 4.41 ratio creating a top speed between 111 mph
and 149.9 mph for a car that should be turning near or under 13.0 sec.
times.  

Unfortunatly all the needed info I seemed to miss to give you better details
so if you can detail me in on some added facts like rpm's at 51 mph in 1st
gear, present rear axle ratio, transmission type, tire size etc. I can give 
you better and more accurate details.

dennis
 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 10:26:45 1993
Subject: Re: valve seats
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>Millam E Tackitt wrote
> 
> Dave, I'm not sure if you are aware of it but the Berylium-copper
> alloy is EXTREMELY toxic. A few whiffes of it as it is machined and
> you'll never recover. Use a full blown respirator. 
> The aerospace and jet industries usually have scraps floating around.
> 
Actually the effects of Berylium are not that quick to hit you.  We converted
at work from Berylium-copper tools to a combination of aluminium-brass and
titanium tools.  The reason they gave us was the long range effects of
Berylium in causing cancer.

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 10:31:24 1993
Subject: plug wires
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Anyone have any recommendations on plug wires?
I'm using a "small" computer controlled HEI to trigger an MSD-6AL
which fires thru a mallory Promaster coil, if it makes any difference.

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 10:36:57 1993
Subject: FYI
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

This came off the net.  Thought it would be of enough interest to
post it here.
John
-----------------------------------------------------

Here's a list of states & localities where laser speed detection is
in use.  This was taken from Road Rider's Motorcycle Consumer News
magazine.  (A good publication, IMO.)  They got their information
from the Radio Association Defending Airwave Rights (RADAR), which
is in no way responsible for the accuracy of the information.  (Nor
am I.  8^)

Apologies for type-os... It's a big list 8^)

Alabama -        Birmingham
Arizona -        Phoenix
                 Scottsdale
California -     Beverly Hills
                 Chula Vista
                 Covina
                 El Monte
                 Huntington Beach
                 San Diego
Colorado -       Aurora
                 Denver
Conneticut -     Cheshire,
                 New Britain
                 New Canaan
                 Windsor
Florida -        Orlando
                 St. Petersburg
Georgia -        Georgia State Police
                 Atlanta
Illinois -       Glenwood
                 Palos Hills
                 Rosemont
                 Wheaton
Iowa -           Cedar Rapids
Louisiana -      Louisiana State Police
                 Baton Rouge
                 Monroe
                 Shreveport
Maryland -       Maryland State Police
                 Chevy Chase
                 Hagerstown
                 Prince George's County
                 Montgomery County (Ack!  I live here!)
Massachusetts -  Easthampton
                 Medford
Michigan -       Michigan State Police
                 Birmingham
                 Clinton
                 Eaton
                 Ingham
                 Lansing County
                 Rochester County
Missouri -       St. Louis
New Jersey -     New Jersey State Police
                 Fair Lawn
New Mexico -     Las Cruces
New York -       New York State Police
                 Herkimer
                 Long Island
                 Madison
                 Oneida
                 Onondaga
                 Oswega
                 Remsen County
                 Rochester County
                 City of Fulton
                 City of Syracuse
Ohio -           Ohio State Police
                 Beachwood
                 Cincinnati
                 Cleveland Police
                 Columbus
                 Dayton City Police
                 Medina
                 "All throughout the state"
Oklahoma -       Moore
Oregon -         Tigard
Rhode Island -   Rhode Island State Police
South Carolina - Charleston
Tennessee -      Tennessee State Police
                 Chattanooga
                 Knoxville
                 Memphis
                 Nashville
Texas -          Austin
                 El Paso
                 Fort Worth
                 Harris County
                 Houston
Vermont -        Burlington
Virginia -       Cape Charles
Washington -     Washington State Police
                 Spokane
Wisconsin -      Oshkosh
-- 
jimb@access.digex.com  | (Cage) 1991 323se (MD ZCP-710)            | Comus Road
Merry Land (MD) U.S.A. | (Bike) Looking for liter class sportourer | ClarksBURG
-----------------------+-------------------------------------------+-----------
Mail is forwarded to NeXT                      "Happy Happy Joy Joy!"   -Stimpy

----------
Posted by: jgd (John De Armond)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 14:35:07 1993
Subject: Re:  never driven Cobra 427SCs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Second, rumor has it that the frames were registered at the time of
-> manufacturing. Seems that the 427SC VIN-equivalent was the frame
-> number (this is before Uncle stepped in and demanded a uniform VIN
-> scheme). So the frames are registered and titled as of 1965 or so,

 I flat don't believe it.  When you buy a new car, there is no title
until you apply for one.  That's in all 50 states, 'cause manufacturers
don't do titles, just Certificates of Origin where required.

 California has had motor vehicle inspections for a loooong time.  I
can't imagine the state of California inspecting, titling, and
registering a car that didn't exist.
                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 14:46:06 1993
Subject: New 427SCs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 It strikes me that if, indeed, Shelby manages to title the new Cobras
as 1965 models, someone is going to owe a whopping lot of tax - and
it'll probably be Shelby.  The IRS is certain to notice $21.5M worth of
taxable property, and they'd be quite happy to charge back taxes and
penalties for every year right back to 1965.

 Ow-ow-ow-owwww.................
                                                                                                              

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 14:51:28 1993
Subject: ZF
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 I wrote off to ZF North America's Chicago office for some more
up-to-date information (the last packet I had was from 1983) and they've
moved, and forwarding has expired.  The old addresses were:

ZF North America                US importer                     05/83
3225 Commercial Avenue                     BOTH ADDRESSES BAD 02/93
Northbrook IL 60062
or
PO Box 66253
AMF O'Hare IL 60666


 If anyone in Chicago could look up their new address, I'd be grateful.


 This is the same ZF that made the Pantera transaxles, which were still
available new back in 1983.
                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 15:02:26 1993
Subject: Re: valve seats
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

        Reply to:   RE>>valve seats
Ok, this has nothing to do with BE-CU or the toxicity thereof but ....

I did my own porting/polishing job on my 1987 Buick V6 Turbo heads last summer.
 It was a fun and interesting project that resulted in about a 30 HP increase
(conservatively, since the car went from 12.50s to 12.0s ... I attribute .1 or
.15 to the cam change I made at the same time.  I think the combination of
heads and cam may produce more power than the sum of the parts) and has me
thinking about doing another set using the lessons I've learned.  I'm thinking
about more work in the valve bowl area and back cutting the little lip on the
valves ...

The question?  I noticed that the valve seats were NOT hardened ... no inserts,
no special anything ... just machined into the head!  I was wondering why ...
this car is designed to run Unleaded gas and is Turbo charged besides.  I'd
think that hardened valves seats were a necessity for those kinds of
application.  I did notice that the seats were very wide ... I assume this
helps with durability and heat dissipation.

Any helpful tips as to new things I should try on the next set of heads I try? 
I thought about bigger valves, but the combustion chamber design of the 3.8
litre V6 (3.8" bore) make this pretty much a wash IMHO, since the valves will
be close to the bore and be shrouded.... I spent alot of time unshrouding the
valves on my last set of heads.

Any clues as to why these heads would not have hardened valve seats?

Ken Mosher
Buick GN:  "... If Darth Vader drove a Buick ..."


----------
Posted by: "KEN MOSHER" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 15:06:26 1993
Subject: Speaking of airflow...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


With all this talk of carb airflow, does anyone have some real numbers on
the relative flow rate of air filters, such as K&N, ITG, and those nice shiny
chrome things that cost about $7.49 at the national chain stores?

mjb.

[I trashed 2 racing engines in a row several years ago thanks to K&N.  
Stubborn me, I couldn't believe that heavily advertised filter would
pass enough dirt to trash an engine in one race so I bought a new filter
and tried it again.  Needless to say, even my (non-hotrodded) lawnmower
will ever see a K&N.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!triumph.cs.utah.edu!mjb (Mark J Bradakis)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 15:35:03 1993
Subject: Re: lifter resurfacing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> Shadbolt Cams, 604-738-9505. Barry is probably the one to talk to.
>-> Good people.

> Thanks Jim!  I'll give 'em a call later in the week.
>                                           
Ask Barry if he still has his 340 cuda. A 69, I think. Last time I was
there, he still had it, and it was pretty nice.

JD



----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 15:39:50 1993
Subject: Re^4: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

It seems that everybody has missed the obvious cause of bogging. Good 
old fashioned vacuum leak. 
Check all the bits'n'pieces that get plugged into the carb and manifold 
or use (was it John's) trick of waving an (unlit) propane torch around 
suspect places and listen for a rev change.

Ignition timing will also give bog-like symptoms.

Steve.


----------
Posted by: emory!kcbbs.gen.nz!Steve_Baldwin (Steve Baldwin)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 15:43:50 1993
Subject: Re: plug wires
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Jonathan Lusky asks about spark plug wire recommendations.

I have bad news and I have good news.  The bad news is Accel wires -
I had a set of that stuff (their 9mm bright yellow wires) for less
than a year when it started to break down and arc through the
insulation.  The good news is Jacobs wires - although Jacobs seems
to be full of it when he writes, the wires work well, have held
up for 8+ years for me, and have a lifetime warranty.

I never had much luck with the factory type wires, either OEM or
from the auto parts stores.  They only seem to last about 2 years
before the carbon gets intermittent.

I would be interested in hearing reports on other brands.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net

----------
Posted by: emory!UCSD.EDU!btree!hale (hale)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 15:48:17 1993
Subject: RFI: Racing Entry Fees
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Hi All:

I'd like to put together a list of the entry fees for different tracks around
the nation/world. I'm asking for your help in doing this. If you have
information from your local track such as the entry fee for:

1) Car and driver (by class if more than one)
2) Spectator
3) Test and Tune

and could e-mail it to me that would be great. I'll compile all the inputs and
publish a final listing of it. Other information that would be nice is length
of season (ie March-Oct), 1/4 or 1/8 mile track, payouts for each class, ET
break points for the classes, etc. Thanks much for the inputs. One of the
reasons I'm doing this is that I'm convinced our local tracks here in Minnesota
are WAY over priced, but have no data to back it up.

Thanks Again,
Ron

mellum@skyler.mavd.honeywell.com 

----------
Posted by: "Mellum Ron" 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 15:53:04 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Okay Dennis, here is what I have:

It is a 1971 Cutlass convertible.  

ENGINE:   Rocket 350 with the Holley 750 Vac Sec, adapter between 
          the Holley and the intake, Edelbrock performer intake, 
          and a Mallory coil.  The engine is otherwise stock.  Timing 
          is advanced to ??? but its not correct.

TRANS:    350 Turbo, 3spd (obviously), 200 Stall converter and a 
          shift kit.                      ^0

REAREND:  Stock single squealer.  I don't know what gear is back 
          there.


--
rapier@camelot.bradley.edu

"Up your butt, Jobu!"
			--Major League

----------
Posted by: Jesse Vitell 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 15:58:21 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>-> fromthe Co chassis (43 to be exact) and engines.  Imagine 43 mint,
>-> zero-miles, never driven Cobra 427SCs.
>
> I have read this in several places, but as far as I can tell from
>reading the Code of Federal Regulations and the packet the DOT sent me
>along with my manufacturer's certificate, those cars will have to be
>titled as 1993s if they're put on the street.  Back in '68 you could
>assemble anything you wanted, stamp your lucky number on it for a serial
>number, and that was that.  Nowadays you're assigned a Federal
>manufacturer ID and a range of numbers and a checking algorithm to
>verify real serial numbers.
>
> Since the cars were never completed or titled, it's doubtful the DOT
>would recognize them as 1968 models, no matter how long ago the chassis
>was built.  Here in Arkansas there'd be no problem registering a
>non-EPA, non-DOT car, but in Smog Gestapo states it might be a bitch.
>
The way I read things, VIN's were actually assigned/registered/whatever needed
to be done legally in those days to make the car "real".  The fact that it
never was titled won't change the "official" year of manufacture.  Just because
it wouldn't fly for cars officially built today doesn't mean it doesn't work
for these vehicles which met the rules back then.  (I agree it sounds pretty
shady, but Shelby sounds pretty confident that he's on firm ground.)

David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 16:08:24 1993
Subject: plug wires
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

With an MSD, you aren't supposed to use solid core wires. I use them anyway
but mine have a resistor in the end. Works fine. Stay FAR AWAY from
accel wires. A freind of mine used them on his stang. They are pretty 
weak.

[I use the magnetic supression type wires.  They work just fine and keep
the static low enough that I can hear Rush Linbaugh just fine :-)  JGD]
----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 16:26:56 1993
Subject: tires
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

ANy impressions of Mickey Thomson competitors? I'm looking for a fairly
soft tire for 13x5.5 rims. By fairly soft I mean soft enough to hook up
well but not really soft like Hoosiers, Racemasters, etc. I currently
have BFG comp T/A's (205-60VR13) and they don't hook up real well.
(I also think the V rating is a shovel full...) I will most likely
use deeper gears with the softer tires, so an increase in outer
diameter won't bother me too much. The BFG's are 22.6", and the MT's are
23.6".

----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 16:31:18 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

As I recall, the jet rangers run roughly 320 to 420 shaft horsepower, whether
it is an early jet ranger or a later model.  Now if you are talking Huey's,
shaft horsepower is more what you were talking.  It takes a prety sizeable 
transmission(aircraft) to hande 1275 shaft horsepower.
Mike B( also professional rotorhead)

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 16:36:06 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I read the article myself a while back and I believe Shelby is quoted 
as saying that he actually formally titled every chassis and has California
pink slips for each one bearing the magic date 1965. Only last year was the
law changed to make you have to pay a 5 buck fee on a car you wanted to
keep garaged with buying the full license, so Shelby probably has to pay
5 bucks againgst 500k value but it is certainly worth it.  I believe he 
also has the black and yellow plates too for each chassis.  In which
case, their is no problem except with uncle sam on the capital gains when
he sells them.mgb

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Tue Feb 23 16:42:37 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



Begin forwarded message:

>Hey, does anyone remember the name of a movie from the mid'60s about
>some hot rodder who built a turbine car and entered it in some sort  
>of road race or rally?  I saw it when I was a kid, but I never knew  
>the name of the movie.
                                                                  

Sure! Death Race 2000. That flick gets two thumbs up 

----------
Posted by: emory!phoenix.az.stratus.com!scol (Scott Colbath)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:48:02 1993
Subject: Re: Speaking of airflow...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
>  From David Vizard's "Performance With Economy":
> 
>       CFM/in^2          filter
>         2.9             typical paper filter, 12,000 dusty miles
>         5.1             K&N filter after 500 mile Baja race
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                          but how well is it filtering at this point?

>         5.2             best paper element (Motorcraft) new
>         6.5             new K&N filter
> 
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:49:29 1993
Subject: Re: New 427SCs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


__@/  It strikes me that if, indeed, Shelby manages to title the new Cobras
__@/ as 1965 models, someone is going to owe a whopping lot of tax - and
__@/ it'll probably be Shelby.  The IRS is certain to notice $21.5M worth of
__@/ taxable property, and they'd be quite happy to charge back taxes and
__@/ penalties for every year right back to 1965.
__@/ 
__@/  Ow-ow-ow-owwww.................

I don't think so:  No back taxes since Shelby didn't have _income_ on the
frames (until now).  Of course, he'll have to pay taxes on the profits
when he makes & sells the car, but at least he won't be paying IRS interest
rates.  Please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Personally, I hope he does manage to sell them as '65s, just for the
amusement value.  Perhaps auctioning off one a year to the highest bidder?
That'd be something to see.  :-)

--joe decker
joe@synaptics.com, decker@alumni.caltech.edu
*** opinions strictly mine ***


----------
Posted by: emory!uunet.UU.NET!synaptx!joe (Joe Decker)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:49:31 1993
Subject: Re: valve seats
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Frank Perdicaro wrote
> 
> I'm glad sombody else posted about ber-cu.  I've heard that its the ber
> part thats really toxic.  
> 
> The only two uses I know of for the stuff is laser mirrors holders --
> I have held these -- and high performance aircraft brakes.  The brakes
> were just like motorcycle basket clutches, with one part connected
> to the wheel ( the basket ) and the other part connected to the strut.

Well Beryllium Copper is also used in the manufacture of tools that are
non-metalic for use around powerfull magnets and also non-sparking for
use around jet fuel and other explosive fuels.  It's a lot harder than
the aluminium brass tools and also a lot cheaper than the titanium tools
we switched to.

----------
Posted by: hotrod@dixie.com
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:54:20 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> in his buddy's car project.  Seems they've transplanted the turbine
>-> engine from a Bell Jet Ranger helicoptor into a Trans-Am and they use
>-> the thing to prowl the streets of Tulsa.  Hmmmm.
>-> Anyway, the guy that did this is supposed to call me with more
>-> details.

> Verrry interesting.  I'd be interested in how they're hooking it to the
>rear wheels - the old Chrysler Turbines used lots of reduction gears and
>a variable-pitch torque convertor, best as I can remember.
>                                                                                               
If I remember correctly...been a while...but didnt Mopar use a 3spd
Torqueflite WITHOUT torque convertor in the turbine cars? Dont forget,
a gas turbine gives full torque at stall.

Nice thing about turboshaft engines *not turboprop* is that a lot
of them have an output shaft speed of around 6600 RPM. Kinda handy
for use in a car, I would think. 

JD



----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:54:28 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> The Tucker Lives Again!

> Chrysler Turbine Car, maybe, but the Tucker was a rear engined, air
>cooled flat six (eight?), used an aircraft engine for power.  Of course,
>back during the '20s and '30s, it wasn't all that unusual to see
>Continental or Lycoming motors in cars.

> Hey, does anyone remember the name of a movie from the mid'60s about
>some hot rodder who built a turbine car and entered it in some sort of
>road race or rally?  I saw it when I was a kid, but I never knew the
>name of the movie.
>                                                                  
The movie name is a blank to me, too, but the movie had the Mopar
turbine car in it. Kinda funny, when you remember that Mopar built
the turbine to have about the same power as a 318. 



JD


----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:54:33 1993
Subject: Dana/Spicer 44's
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Well, I was kind of surprised that nobody on this list had 
any suggestions on hotrodding a 223 Ford inline six, other
than to swap in something else.  Maybe that's a sign that
I should toss it and put in a 302.

Anyway, today's question is whether there is good shortcut
way to replace the clutch pack in limited slip Dana 44. 
The bible says to use a special spreader tool to spring the
case apart, but I heard there is supposed to be an easier
way to do this.  Any ideas?

Thanks,
Dave

dnwangus@flash.lakeheadu.ca

----------
Posted by: emory!FLASH.LakeheadU.CA!dnwangus (Dances-with-voles)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:54:52 1993
Subject: Phase I done, need phase II help
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


Well I just lighted of my project engine that took about 3 years and
over $6,000.00 to complete.  About 3 years ago I obtained a small
block Chevey 350 engine out of a bone yard with the goal of producing
a 425 HP plus engine for a future drag machine.  Well yesterday I finally
cranked it over and woke up all the neighbors.  Hp should be well over the
initial goal of 425 if I believed all the manufacturers literature and
bull I'd have to claim about 800 hp but you all know how much they push
there claims.

Now my next phase is phase II.  Initially this was to fit this little gem 
a mid 60's Nova or Camaro body.  However my ambitions have grown since then
and I'm considering the altered classes in which I could possibly liscense
this future machine as a street rod.  This is where I'm asking for help.
Does anyone know of sources for tubular chassis that could handle this engine 
with a fiberglass replica 32 ford body or simular.  I really like the old
Willies but believe there a little big for a small block.  Perhaps an Anglia
body may work as well.  But now I need the basic frame and running gear
and need sources, so any help would be appreciated.

dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:54:55 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> Jesse wrote
> 
> Okay Dennis, here is what I have:
> 
> It is a 1971 Cutlass convertible.  
> 
> ENGINE:   Rocket 350 with the Holley 750 Vac Sec, adapter between 
>           the Holley and the intake, Edelbrock performer intake, 
>           and a Mallory coil.  The engine is otherwise stock.  Timing 
>           is advanced to ??? but its not correct.
> 
> TRANS:    350 Turbo, 3spd (obviously), 200 Stall converter and a 
>           shift kit.                      ^0
> 
> REAREND:  Stock single squealer.  I don't know what gear is back 
>           there.
> 
> 
Real simular to my 1972 when I had it.

Suggestions 

Carb.	A 750 is good to about 7,500 rpm's a little high for that engine.
	Mine ran best with a 4011 series 650 cfm holley spread bore, with
	your manifold i'd try a Holley 4150 double pumper at 600 or 650
	cfm.  

Transmission:  Hey my olds sold me on the 350 Turbo's.  2,000 plus stall
	speed should work okay with stock cam and a set of good gears.
	But with a set of low gears you should get a great line shot.

Rearend	Well an open rear is waste of rubber the track and now traction.
	First you need a posi unit, then you need to decide how much street
	drivability you want to give up for a low ET.  Ideal 1/4 ET with
	that engine etc would be around 4.88.  This is not real streetable
	so I would consider 4.11 for a compromise unless you do verey little
	highway driving, then try the 4.56's.  If all your driving is highway
	and you need to watch your gasoline money then try 3.73's.  You are
	most probably running a ratio of  between 2.73  and 3.23's now.

Hope this helps.
dennis

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:55:04 1993
Subject: Re: plug wires 
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


> Date:  Tue, 23 Feb 93 04:27 EST
> From:  hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
> 
>Anyone have any recommendations on plug wires?
>I'm using a "small" computer controlled HEI to trigger an MSD-6AL
>which fires thru a mallory Promaster coil, if it makes any difference.

I am not going to make a recommendation, just provide a personal observation.
I purchased some "aftermarket performance" wires (I can't remember the name
but it was some common ignition manufacturer) and the engine ran horribly.
After much screwing around, I finally got the scope out and noticed that the
wires were so noisy that they were confusing the computer digital signals
that controlled the ignition module.  I then purchased the stock Ford
Motorcraft wires (which actually cost less money), and the noise was now
very low.

Since ignition wires seem to be like a religion to some people, I won't
make any recommendation because I don't want to end up arguing about it.
I just wanted to point out that depending upon how much "computer control"
you have, be aware of the noise factor and that switching to a different
wire could help or hurt the situation.

>-- 
>--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 


	-- Dan

----------
Posted by: Dan Malek 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:55:23 1993
Subject: Re: plug wires (Jacob vs generic)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> I've had my OEM Starion wires for 6.5 years (Sept 86) without
> any problems except recent minor cracks in some parts of one
> cable rubber.

That's all it takes to start a wet weather misfire.  I replace plug
wires every couple of years at most.

> I was interested in upgrading to Jacob but the $40+ price for
> non ceramic boot type 8mm has kept me away. I'm thinking of 
> getting a generic 7-7.5 mm lifetime warranteed set from Autozone
> for $15--17. Champion I think.

This is false economy.  $40-50 is a very typical price for spiral core
wires, and the good ones will last a lot longer than the "lifetime"
wires.  I currently have the Jacobs on my Mustang, but any number of
other reputable brands (MSD, Mallory, Accel, etc) should work just as
well.  The generic carbon core resistor wires are junk -- what good are
"lifetime" warranties if the replacement part fails as quickly as the
original, and doesn't perform well to start with?



-- 
     Chuck Fry  chucko@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov  chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov
   Join the Silicon Valley protest against 55 MPH!  Email me for details.
	    I alone bear responsibility for the claptrap above.

----------
Posted by: emory!freud.arc.nasa.gov!chucko (Chuck Fry)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:55:26 1993
Subject: Re: Speaking of airflow...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> [I trashed 2 racing engines in a row several years ago thanks to K&N.  
> Stubborn me, I couldn't believe that heavily advertised filter would
> pass enough dirt to trash an engine in one race so I bought a new filter
> and tried it again.  Needless to say, even my (non-hotrodded) lawnmower
> will ever see a K&N.  JGD]

This is pretty much my experience with K&N as well, except not as
extreme.  I had a K&N filter on my Jeep for about 20k.  I let it go
about 5,000 miles of city driving without reoiling it and found an
unacceptable layer of dust/small dirt inside of the element.
I also decided that the I'd rather spend $2.50 on a new paper filter
than spend over an hour cleaning the K&N and a couple of hours waiting
for it to dry.  I haven't had good luck with foam, either, mainly being
that it didn't flow worth crap when it was oiled (had foam filters on
the SU's on my Z...  car was noticeably faster when I replaced them with
stock aircleaner and paper element.  Not exactly a fair comparison since
the paper filter had a larger area, tho).  Until someone is able to show
me some merit to other types of filters, I'll stick to paper, and if it
doesn't flow enough, I'll get a bigger one.
Me hold grudges?  Nah.... :)

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:55:36 1993
Subject: Re: plug wires
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> With an MSD, you aren't supposed to use solid core wires. I use them anyway
> but mine have a resistor in the end. Works fine. Stay FAR AWAY from
> accel wires. A freind of mine used them on his stang. They are pretty 
> weak.

Right now its got 800ohm/foot resistance wires, can't remember the make
(they're blue, with stainless steel covering, I didn't buy em).  Our EGT
is pretty high (1300F at stoich at idle, 1600F under 100hp load lean
(combustion temp peaks rich of stoich for Methane, btw) god knows what it'll
be under a 400hp load with a rich mixture), and it takes a major toll on
the plug wire insulation. 

> [I use the magnetic supression type wires.  They work just fine and keep
> the static low enough that I can hear Rush Linbaugh just fine :-)  JGD]

I'm using AutoZone's finest $20 magnetic suppression wires on my Jeep,
Camaro, and Rx-7.  The set on the Jeep I found to be about 1.3ohms/ft.
So far, no problems with any of them, but none have seen very harsh
conditions.  No static problems, even with the $35 Kraco radio in the
Mazda.

A non-net.person reccomended some fiberglass reinforced wires made by
MSD..  anyone have any experience with those?


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 12:55:45 1993
Subject: Re: tires
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> ANy impressions of Mickey Thomson competitors? I'm looking for a fairly
> soft tire for 13x5.5 rims. By fairly soft I mean soft enough to hook up
> well but not really soft like Hoosiers, Racemasters, etc. I currently
> have BFG comp T/A's (205-60VR13) and they don't hook up real well.
> (I also think the V rating is a shovel full...) I will most likely
> use deeper gears with the softer tires, so an increase in outer
> diameter won't bother me too much. The BFG's are 22.6", and the MT's are
> 23.6".

WHat's the application?  Drag racing?  Autocross?  If the latter,
I doubt the MT's hold a candle to Yokohama's A008Rxx (where xx is the
latest autocross compoound, not sure what it is this season).  I think
a few people had good luck with Bridgestone RE71R's last year, too.

For drag racing, I know nothing.  Stiff sidewalls aren't good for
drag racing, right?

-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:00:02 1993
Subject: Re: Re^4: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>It seems that everybody has missed the obvious cause of bogging. Good 
>old fashioned vacuum leak. 
>Check all the bits'n'pieces that get plugged into the carb and manifold 
>or use (was it John's) trick of waving an (unlit) propane torch around 
>suspect places and listen for a rev change.
>
>Ignition timing will also give bog-like symptoms.
>
>Steve.
>
>
>----------
>Posted by: emory!kcbbs.gen.nz!Steve_Baldwin (Steve Baldwin)
> 
>
>
>


Vacuum leak?  I doubt it.  All my hoses are new as of last summer. 
Besides a leak would cause rough idle wouldn't it?

As for timing, it could be.  I honestly don't know where its timed 
at.  

--
rapier@camelot.bradley.edu

"Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb!"
					--Spaceballs

----------
Posted by: Jesse Vitell 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:00:04 1993
Subject: Speaking of airflow...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> With all this talk of carb airflow, does anyone have some real
-> numbers on the relative flow rate of air filters, such as K&N, ITG,
-> and those nice shiny

 From David Vizard's "Performance With Economy":

      CFM/in^2          filter
        2.9             typical paper filter, 12,000 dusty miles
        3.2             worst paper element tested (Fram)
        4.0             typical paper filter, 5000 miles
        4.5             foam filters, Unifilter, Ram Flow, Filtron, etc
        4.9             typical paper element, new
        5.1             K&N filter after 500 mile Baja race
        5.2             best paper element (Motorcraft) new
        6.5             new K&N filter

 The numbers are from Vizard's flow bench.  He's been a K&N evangelist
for a long time, though.


-> and tried it again.  Needless to say, even my (non-hotrodded)
-> lawnmower will ever see a K&N.  JGD]

 I'm not buying anything from scumbags who want you to place an order on
their 900 number.  Kee-rist!
                                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:00:07 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List
> 
> As I recall, the jet rangers run roughly 320 to 420 shaft horsepower, whether
> it is an early jet ranger or a later model.  Now if you are talking Huey's,
> shaft horsepower is more what you were talking.  It takes a prety sizeable 
> transmission(aircraft) to hande 1275 shaft horsepower.
> Mike B( also professional rotorhead)

Jets are not my forte'...  you are right, it is the huey engine's in the
boat.  As far as coupling the power, it is delevered through a system that
allows the prop-depth to be changed on-the-fly.  When he trim's up the
props, the thing flat-out moves!  Every time I see him the first thing he
says is "I got it up to 1xx mph today!"   Must be nice to just play with 
your toys all day.  This guy is retired and is a self-made millionaire.
You might have heard of him, he invented the 'Anersen Pool-Sweep.'
Now he just gets to play with his toys...  very nice indeed:-)


DAVE (johnson@wrs.com) Internet Z-Club member #51

----------
Posted by: David Johnson 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:00:14 1993
Subject: Re: New 427SCs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>  It strikes me that if, indeed, Shelby manages to title the new Cobras
> as 1965 models, someone is going to owe a whopping lot of tax - and
> it'll probably be Shelby.  The IRS is certain to notice $21.5M worth of
> taxable property, and they'd be quite happy to charge back taxes and
> penalties for every year right back to 1965.
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

Well, it can't be quite that bad. First of all, the cars are not worth
$500,000.00, they only cost $150,000 to "finish up". Second, what's been
sitting since 1965 is the tub. Certainly not $150,000 worth of inventory,
more like $3,000 per tub. So what if he winds up having to cough up the
$5.66 per year per tub?


-- 
---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:00:22 1993
Subject: Re: Speaking of airflow...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> [I trashed 2 racing engines in a row several years ago thanks to K&N.  
> Stubborn me, I couldn't believe that heavily advertised filter would
> pass enough dirt to trash an engine in one race so I bought a new filter
> and tried it again.  Needless to say, even my (non-hotrodded) lawnmower
> will ever see a K&N.  JGD]

Did you forget to oil it or something? I've been running a K&N for about
three years now, clean it before events, and have not experienced any
problems...

---
John R. Lupien
lupienj@wal.hp.com

[What kind of event?  Almost all my racing has been off-road.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: emory!wal.hp.com!lupienj (John Lupien)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:00:24 1993
Subject: plug wires
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Anyone have any recommendations on plug wires?

 I'm interested too.

 Seems like in the last few years, most plug wires have gone to hell in
a handbasket.  I don't particularly want yellow or blue or pink wires
with someone's name on them, just plain old black or brown is fine.
                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:00:26 1993
Subject: Re: valve seats
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> The question?  I noticed that the valve seats were NOT hardened ...
-> no inserts, this car is designed to run Unleaded gas and is Turbo
-> charged besides.  I'd think that hardened valves seats were a
-> necessity for those kinds of application.

 In a nutshell, unleaded fuel has little to do with valve or seat wear,
and trying to harden cast iron - particularly in a high temp area such
as a valve seat - is pretty much a waste of time.

 The old horror stories about unleaded fuel were primarily a composite
of poor quality control, problems with early emission control systems,
and finger pointing, angry owners, media hype, and sleazy mechanics
trying to cash in on the sensation.

 Cast iron is a very good valve seat material.  That's what most
inserted valve seats are made of.  By grinding the seat directly into
the head, you help cooling and absolutely eliminate any chance of a
separate seat coming loose.


-> I did notice that the seats were very wide ... I assume
-> this helps with durability and heat dissipation.

 Sounds reasonable.  I don't have a seat width figure handy for the
turbo 231 - you don't happen to have one in your reference material, do
you?  If you can find one, I can compare it to general seat widths.
                                                                                                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:00:27 1993
Subject: Re: plug wires (Jacob vs generic)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


 I've had my OEM Starion wires for 6.5 years (Sept 86) without
 any problems except recent minor cracks in some parts of one
 cable rubber.

 I was interested in upgrading to Jacob but the $40+ price for
 non ceramic boot type 8mm has kept me away. I'm thinking of 
 getting a generic 7-7.5 mm lifetime warranteed set from Autozone
 for $15--17. Champion I think.

 Neeraj

----------
Posted by: emory!ws19.b30.ingr.com!tulsi (Neeraj Tulsian)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:01:29 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I would be *extremely* intersted in hearing more about this.  I did a
paper in college on the use of turbines in autos.  I'd have built one
myself if the turbines didn't cost so much.  Please send me any additional
information you have.

Thanks!

In article <=d8syn-@dixie.com> you write:
>I got a unique call today. fellow wanted to know if I'd be interested
>in his buddy's car project.  Seems they've transplanted the turbine engine
>from a Bell Jet Ranger helicoptor into a Trans-Am and they use the 
>thing to prowl the streets of Tulsa.  Hmmmm.

[We'll see what I get from this guy.  If it's a fairly conventional hack,
I'll write something up here and post.  If he really did an elegant job,
we'll get some pix and write a mag article.  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!zeppelin.convex.com!jgardner (John B. Gardner)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:01:31 1993
Subject: Re: valve seats
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>[Buick heads]
>
>The question?  I noticed that the valve seats were NOT hardened ... no inserts,
>
>Any clues as to why these heads would not have hardened valve seats?
>
I don't know whether these are iron or aluminum heads, but the seats on iron
heads are inductively hardened directly on the casting.  Don't know about
aluminum heads

David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:01:42 1993
Subject: Re: valve seats
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Strangely enough, a discussion about Cu-Be has been going on on the
-> net so it got my interest up.  Cu-Be is a very common alloy

 I've been asking around wherever I thought I might get a reply, so most
of the stuff was probably to/from me.

 So far I've had 19 semi-frantic messages that I'd turn into a space
alien and die if I handled some, and one wiseacre who recommended I try
my local aircraft salvage yard.  Ri-ight.
                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:01:44 1993
Subject: Re: Speaking of airflow...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Mark J Bradakis writes:
"With all this talk of carb airflow, does anyone have some real numbers on
the relative flow rate of air filters, such as K&N, ITG, and those nice shiny
chrome things that cost about $7.49 at the national chain stores?"

A few years ago I happened to be browsing through one of the popular
car magazines at the magazine rack and noticed an article on air
filters.  Actually, it was the magazine version of an infomercial
for K&N filters.

The thing that really caught my attention was that although the
text said that the K&N flowed better than the stock filter the
charts and graphs showed that it flowed worse over most of the
air flow range.

I couldn't decide if the article had mistakes in it or if the
graphs were incorrect.  I just decided to keep my money away from
K&N products.

Bob Hale                                      ...!ucsd!btree!hale
...!btree!hale@ucsd.edu                       ...!ucsd!btree!hale@uunet.uu.net


----------
Posted by: emory!UCSD.EDU!btree!hale (hale)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:01:52 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> [Hmm, Well, Andy Granitelli built an Indy car that ran so good they
-> banned it but I can't recall a movie about it.  JGD]

 Nope, that's not it.  The only scene I really remember is the hot
rodder type was working in his shop when his girlfriend's engineer-geek
brother drops in.  When the geek finds out the hot rodder is building a
turbine car, he whips out his slide rule (yeah, *that* kind of geek) and
goes into gobbledygook mode, finally proving the turbine wouldn't make
enough power to get the kind of performance the rodder is looking for.
The hot rodder wipes his hands on a rag, reaches into a cabinet, and
hauls down a big trophy, saying something on the order of "Well, it won
*this*."
                                                                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:01:55 1993
Subject: Banned Cars
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


>                                                                  
>[Hmm, Well, Andy Granitelli built an Indy car that ran so good they banned
>it but I can't recall a movie about it.  JGD]
>----------

What was so special/trick about this car?  

I remember the Chaparrel got banned after 1 or 2 seasons, but don't remember
why.  Something about sucking trash off the track and throwing it out the
back (and into the cars behind it).  Is this right?

Just curious,
Pat

Pat Kindell                        CX500T,KDX200,XL250R,RX-7
Convex Computer Corp.              DoD # 117  AMA # 613655
3000 Waterview Parkway             WFO # $*&%^_*&%!!
Richardson, TX  75083-3851         kindell@eugene.convex.com

------------------- Standard Disclaimer goes here -----------------

[It was a 4 wheel drive car, the real innovation.  The turbine was reported
to be underpowered compared to the piston engines of the time.  Nontheless,
the 4wd let Parnelli Jones drive the whole track wide open.  He was winning
the race going away when a transmission bearing failed a few laps from
the finish.  The powers that be instituted an inlet area restriction
on turbines that was designed to make the engine uncompetative.  They
came back next year and were still faster so the powers that be attacked
the issue head-on and banned 4wd.  

Most of this is from memory of reading Andy Granitelli's autobiography.
This is a very good read, BTW.  He and his brothers did some really
crazy stuff including equipping an old jalopy with a dozen surplus 
JATO bottles and, based on a test-firing of what turned out to be a dud,
fired 'em all at once.  He vividly describes how the blast burned the
paint off of and crystallized the glass in the chase car, and how it broke
the speedo on the car.  What a blast!  JGD]
----------
Posted by: emory!convex.com!kindell (Pat Kindell)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:02:01 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest car?
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In article , hotrod@dixie.com writes...
> 
>  Coincidentally, the top 100 0-60 times are ALL the cars in my database
>  that are in the 7 Second and Under Club (7SUC).
> 
>    MODEL                YEAR O_60 Q_MI TOP ENGINE              BHP_RPM
>    -----                ---- ---- ---- --- ------              -------
[some models deleted]
>    Plymouth Superbee    1969  5.6 14.0 129 383 cu              335@5200

Being a very large fan of the '69 Super Bee (I hope to get one this year) I
couldn't help notice that the Chrysler division listed was Plymouth.  The
Super Bee was made by Dodge.  The Plymouth counterpart was the Road Runner.

David Nieters
University of Minnesota
daven@vx.cis.umn.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!vx.cis.umn.edu!daven (David Nieters)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:02:06 1993
Subject: DuraSpark Firing
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



I was playing around with the DuraSpark II system on my pickup truck
last night. I performed the tap test where you connect a sparkplug to
the coil output and ground it and then tap the distributor to cause
sparks.  I am puzzled about how such light taps can cause the system to
fire.  I even saw some sparks generated when I took the distributor
cap off.  I then moved the distributor rotor back and forth against the
advance springs and got a number of sparks.

Is this level of sensitivity normal?  Under normal conditions how does
a light tap cause the stator to pick up enough of a signal to fire the
system?  Wouldn't there be sparks and hence a misfire when you hit a 
pothole?

Thanks --rod. 

-- 
Rod Barman, Dept. of E.E., University of British Columbia
rodb@salmon.ee.ubc.ca

----------
Posted by: emory!ee.ubc.ca!rodb
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:02:23 1993
Subject: Re: Transbrakes (was Triathlon of Motor Sports)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Dennis Bednarek sez:
> > 
>> >>... A motorcycles-and-steamrollers Pro-"Street" car with all its
>> >>stopping power in the transbrake and 'chute would have to run negative
>> >                       ^^^^^^^^^^
>> >This is a joke, right?  The transbrakes I am familiar with provide
>> >a "clutch-like" mechanism for launching automatic-transmission equipped
>> >vechicles by "holding" the transmission between 1st and reverse gears.
>> >...
>> 
>
>Actually most well built steam rollers (funny cars) have a greatly improved
>breaking system over stock.  If your going to travel at 200 or more miles
>per hour you better be able to stop it.  And as far as keeping it stopped
>how do you think they hold them back on the line when there pumping 1,000
>plus horsepower out?

They certainly don't hold back 1,000 horsepower on the starting line with
their brakes!!!!  Yeah, they have good brakes, and most running quicker than
9's in the quarter have parachutes, but no way do they use their brakes
on the line to hold back all of their horsepower.  Most serious bracket
racers use a Lenco with a clutch (most pro-stockers use this setup) or
an automatic (mostly GM Powerglides) with a transbrake.  The setup we are
running on our T-bucket has the two-stage rev limiter wired in with the
transbrake and line locker.  This allows the engine to rev at a relatively
low RPM (5000 RPM) with the gas to the floor...  with the press of a button,
off goes the line locker, the rev-limiter and the transbrake!  Can you 
say LLLLAAAAAUUUNNNCCCHHHH!  Holding that much horsepower at that
RPM with just the BRAKES would boil the transmission fluid in the torque
converter before you could say "aw shit".
For my "street" cars that I race, I let them idle peacefully on the line
until time to launch... jabbing the gas at the appropriate time produces a
higher "flash" stall with the torque converter than sitting there with the
gas and brakes applied.  Of course, a generic manual transmission isn't
applicable to this discussion.   (Recently, some company started selling
a torque converter setup for a Lenco transmission...  I am curious how one
would "launch" this combination.)
Good discussion...
JC.  jca@fibercom.com

----------
Posted by: emory!fibercom.com!jca (James "Dude" Akers)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:02:26 1993
Subject: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
|> Seeing as though I have now identified my carb as being a Vacuum 
|> Sec and I can relate to one of your scenarios, how do I fix it?
|> The scenario is when I floor it off the line it boggs and is very 
|> slow.  I do have an auto trans (350) but the converter is at 2000rpm.
|> What should I do?  Speaking of the trans, as I have raced it I found 
|> that my optimum shifting speed out of 1st is at 51mph.  Thats a bit 
|> high you think?  I don't have a tach so I don't know the rpms.  My 
|> best race time is at 16.00sec.  pathetic huh?
|> 

1. Ok, you have a basic 350 (stock cam) v8 with a vac sec (spreadbore?) carb.

  This engine should probably pull at least 17 inches of manifold vacuum at
idle. (if less you need to adjust idle mixture to richen the idle A/F)

You need to get this done first.  While the idle circuit doesn't do much at 
WOT it is *very* important during the transition from idle to WOT.  If you're
lean at idle the accelerator pump may not deliver enough gas when you punch it.
Also the idle circuit does contribute to the overall A/F ratio during cruise.
For power, I suggest you set idle a bit on the rich side. 

Adjust the mixture screws such that you obtain the highest
manifold vacuum reading at normal idle rpm. A steady low idle reading (10-15
inches on a stock engine) indicates a lean A/F ratio.


2. The thing bogs right when you quickly open the throttle.

When the throttle plates are opened quickly the A/F mixing gets disrupted.
1) Manifold vacuum drops to zero, so fuel flow virtually stops.
2) Fuel already in suspension "falls out" when vacuum is suddenly reduced.
3) The new throttle setting requires *signifigant* increase in fuel flow so
   the main system must be activated. However, without a reasonably strong
   vacuum signal, flow will not be initiated.

The accelerator pump supplies the additional fuel to prevent momentary fuel
starvation that causes the engine to hesitate or bog.
Check that the slightest movement of the throttle causes the acclerator pump
to squirt fuel. Depending on how far open the throttle is at launch (brake
torque-ing assumed) A different profile pump cam may be necessary. (a cam which
delivers a longer shot or delays the shot)  You may have used up most of the
cam lift if you are able to hold the throttle open a lot at launch.  The type
and size pump squirter nozzel will affect the squirt duration. Small diameter
nozzles will extend duration while large ones will have duration that closely
follows the pump cam lift.


This may be only *part* of your problem, with a 2000 RPM stall converter
your engine is probably able to generate enough air flow to start opening
the secondaries. A light secondary spring (Yellow or White) will begin to
open the secondaries around 1600 RPM on a 350V8.  Once whatever pump shot
is consumed the engine will struggle to build enough air flow to activate
the main circuits (primary & secondary).  Swapping to a stiffer spring will
delay opening the secondaries until the engine is capable of handling the
extra air flow.  Q: can you "feel" a kick in the pants when the engine finally
comes to life?  If so, this is the secondary main system "crashing-in" when
the air flow is enough to activate it.


As far as tranny shift points go. I have a 3800 lb 77 TA w/ 400 & TH350/stock 
converter & 3.07 rear axle.
I set it up to WOT shift @ 5300 rpm. This occurs at about 57 mph
Your quarter mile time will be affected by type & weight of vehicle, gearing,
and tranny shift points. WOT shift points are controlled by a governor on the
driver's side near the rear of the transmission case.  The governor can be 
altered to acheive *any* desired shift points.  partial throttle shifts are
controlled by a vacuum modulator on the passeger side of the tranny case.
Adjustable modulators are available.


$0.02
Ericy


      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*
      | Eric Youngblood                                             |
      | Bell-Northern Research    _                                 |
      | Richardson, Texas 75082 _| ~-                               |
      |                         \,  _}                              |
      |                           \(    +---------------------------|
      |                                 |   Peon w/o Email privs    |
      *---------------------------------+---------------------------*




 

----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:02:30 1993
Subject: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


>  2 Engine takes off well but bogs in the 2000-3000 rpm range.

>    Mec sec - 1) power valve problem, engine may need to have full enrichment
>                 sooner, thus the bog.

Eric:

	I am also experiencing this problem with my firebird. I have a 67
firebird and placed a 350 motor into it. Was not original idea but to long to
go into details of why i ended up with the 350, but its a wonder what a fire 
can do to 454 forged pistons!!! Anyway my 350 is a rollor motor with following
equipment:

	BOTTOM END:
		2 bolt main  (I don't beleive in this two bolt vs four bolt)
		steel crank
		pink dimple rods with moroso flat top pistons (nitrus)
		30 over
	TOP END:
		Crane rollor cam 610 dur 720 lift 
		Big block triple valve springs
		rollor lifters girddles...
		weyland cross flow intake (angled carb setup)
		650 double pumper with modifide air horn {
			got rid of the choke assembly gave it the 
			dominator look for more air to the rear barrels)
			The jets were upped from the original 96 in front
			  and 98 in the back.
			The power valve was taken out and plugged.
		fuel pump forgot what size but it gives me 9 pounds at the
			carb.

	The problem is it comes out of the hole great but as soon as i hit 
second gear it boggs like it is starving for fuel. You know now that i think 
about it perhaps its the stall coverter because it tachs great in first its
just second gear that it can't deal with. I went cheap on the stall I put in 
a vega stall (3500) once you take of the shield.  Perhaps? What do ya think?

A lot of the details are fuzzy because it has been garaged since I desided to
return to school. Its been parked for about 3 years now.  I will probably 
remember as you mention them.

Thanx eric 
			--mike


----------
Posted by: emory!JUNCOL.JUNIATA.EDU!HIMES
 



From rsiatl!hotrod Wed Feb 24 13:02:34 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

    Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 02:59 EST
    From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)


    -> The Tucker Lives Again!

     Chrysler Turbine Car, maybe, but the Tucker was a rear engined, air
    cooled flat six (eight?), used an aircraft engine for power.  Of course,
    back during the '20s and '30s, it wasn't all that unusual to see
    Continental or Lycoming motors in cars.

     Hey, does anyone remember the name of a movie from the mid'60s about
    some hot rodder who built a turbine car and entered it in some sort of
    road race or rally?  I saw it when I was a kid, but I never knew the
    name of the movie.
                                                                  
I think it was called "The Fast Set" with Annette Funicello & Frankie
Avalon.  Or something/someone like that; they and a couple of other
pairs made a number of Return of the Beach Blanket meets Thunderball
50000 type movies.

The cool thing about this movie was that the car in the movie really
_is_ the Chyrsler Turbine car.  

The story was a typical `renegade youth against the establishment' type
plot-line.  But, in conjunction with the prominent "the producers wish to thank
Chrysler Corp." at the end of the film, it was at the same time an
(attempted?) allegory about renegade Chyrsler taking on the
establishment car-makers.  In particular, it was a fantastic opportunity
for Chrysler to convince the public about turbine engines.
An early case of `of course GM trucks burn-- I saw it on TV' syndrome.
I wonder to what extent that opportunity fell into their laps, or they
created it (and the movie itself)?

If they had of been able to overcome the technical problems in real
life, who knows...

    [Hmm, Well, Andy Granitelli built an Indy car that ran so good they banned
    it but I can't recall a movie about it.  JGD]
    ----------
    Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 


  bruce
  miller@cam.nist.gov
  

----------
Posted by: Bruce R. Miller 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 14:08:22 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Thanks for the suggestions, Dennis.   I'd agree that I have a big 
carb on such a stock engine but I originally had planned to have 
it built out.  But my problem is that I drive to Chicago from Peoria 
and back almost every weekend.  Thats close to 300 miles every weekend. 
I also drive the car every day (yes even in some of the worst snow 
days).  Would such a higher gear screw up my gas THAT much?  Right 
now I get about 160 miles per tank.  
Oh yea, I forgot to tell you what kind of tires I am sporting:  Brand 
new Eagle ST's 245R14's.   :)

By the way, on the average, how much would a new rearend cost?

--
rapier@camelot.bradley.edu

"Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb!"
					--Spaceballs

----------
Posted by: Jesse Vitell 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 14:22:10 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> I read the article myself a while back and I believe Shelby is quoted
-> as saying that he actually formally titled every chassis and has
-> California

 Interesting.  Just for curiosity, were the Cobras titled as Ford
Motor Company products or Shelby American products?


 I'm also curious about something else - where did these 43 chassis come
from?  I was under the impression Ford's engineering department worked
out the chassis, but they were still built by AC in England, just like
the 289s.  AC shipped semi-completed cars on junk wheels, Shelby dropped
in the driveline and put the good wheels on, at least according to "The
Cobra Story."

 I could see Shelby American maybe having one or two spares around, but
43?  That's a hard figure to believe.  Also, why bother to title them?
Hard as it is to believe, 427 Cobras were not only available, but could
be had relatively cheap - some of them sat in disgruntled dealers' lots
for a couple of years before they were sold.  Also, there was no reason
to believe they would ever be worth much more than they already were -
Cunningham and Scarab had already bit the dust and their stuff wasn't
appreciating any, the horsepower wars were in full swing, the economy
was strong, and so forth.  The Cobras *still* weren't worth a hell of a
lot until the collector craze of the mid '70s, and even then, with a
1975 dollar vs a 1965 dollar, they hadn't appreciated much.

 Titling and squirreling away 43 chassis against an inflation and
collector craze nobody could have predicted seems awfully peculiar for a
45-ish guy with a heart condition who's both famous and moderately well
off.
                                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 14:35:01 1993
Subject: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> The way I read things, VIN's were actually
-> assigned/registered/whatever needed to be done legally in those days
-> to make the car "real".  The fact that it never was titled won't
-> change the "official" year of manufacture.  Just because it wouldn't
-> fly for cars officially built today doesn't mean it doesn't work for
-> these vehicles which met the rules back then.  (I agree it sounds
-> pretty shady, but Shelby sounds pretty confident that he's on firm
-> ground.)

   There was little VIN control until the '70s.
It's all in the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49.  (which is a
bunch of books, not just a single title)

 The crux here is not that the car was never titled, but that it was
never actually *built*.  For, say, an aircraft or a firearm, there are
strict legal interpretations over what constitutes the single major
component, in those cases the airframe or receiver.  It's not quite that
clear-cut for cars, as the list of exceptions in the CFR indicates.

 One of the prior rulings is also going to hurt Shelby - even if the
chassis are numbered, it still doesn't make them a car.  For example,
companies which build school busses, or companies like Checker who
bought other companies' rolling chassis, assigned their own serial
numbers and the vehicles are titled as Blue Birds or Checkers or
whatnot.  Most judges would look at the previous decisions, then rule
that the cars will become '93s as soon as Shelby drops on the body, even
if they were complete running chassis before instead of some 28 year old
rusty pipe.
                  

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 14:40:42 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Sure! Death Race 2000. That flick gets two thumbs up 

 Not *that* one!  

 Reminds me of the line Sylvester Stallone would probably still like to
live down -

        "What's that?"
        "It's a hand grenade."

 
                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 14:44:36 1993
Subject: Re: Re^4: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Jesse Vitell  writes:
"Besides a leak would cause rough idle wouldn't it?

not if you adjusted the idle mixture screws to compensate...
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 14:53:53 1993
Subject: Re: holley carb on 12A
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 I was riding coach for the last two days so I got bored enough to buy an
issue of Hot Rot at the news stand. They have a whopping 1-page article
about upgrading yer basic 1850 carb to add a secondary metering block w/
power valve instead of the metering plate, changing from single to dual
feeds (bowl swap) etc. As full of technical detail as you might expect a
1-page article (including pictures of parts kits) to be, maybe even less.
This is the March issue. If you want a good laugh, check out the equally
voluminous and informative "Engine Pulling Tips" 1-pager. Two geeks in
spotless casual clothes have a spotless, painted engine on the cherry
picker by step 6. 

 Thing is, if you have a late model Holley 1850 (the cheapo cheapo with the
plastic parts and/or the vent tubes cast into the body, 1850-3 or -4 revs)
you're SOL unless you're really into machining; the power valve is an
unsupported option, only a blind dimple in the body casing. However, Holley
will be pleased to sell you the pieces you need to add a power-valve-less
metering block. Apparently you can't just plug off the power valve and use
a standard metering block either, or at least that's the line from HR/Holley.
The article gives Holley kit # 34-6 for side-hung and 34-13 for center-hung
bowls.

 The 1850 original model and 1850-1 and -2 can apparently be done over with
a simple swap from other models though.

----------
Posted by: emory!mlb.semi.harris.com!jws (James W. Swonger)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 14:59:12 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams) writes:
" Chrysler Turbine Car, maybe, but the Tucker was a rear engined, air
"cooled flat six (eight?), used an aircraft engine for power.

franklin 6.  they sold out to poland in the '70s and the engines are
now known as pzl-franklins.

"                                                              Of course,
"back during the '20s and '30s, it wasn't all that unusual to see
"Continental or Lycoming motors in cars.

continental still makes industrial/truck motors [cast-iron water
cooled inlines...].  i think the mil deuce-and-a-half has one under
the hood.

" Hey, does anyone remember the name of a movie from the mid'60s about
"some hot rodder who built a turbine car and entered it in some sort of
"road race or rally?  I saw it when I was a kid, but I never knew the
"name of the movie.

maybe this was the elvis movie that used one of the chrysler turbine
cars [viva las vegas?].

"[Hmm, Well, Andy Granitelli built an Indy car that ran so good they banned
"it but I can't recall a movie about it.  JGD]
-- 
		although you should be doing something productive
		with your life, you are instead wasting your time
		reading this inane mindless rambling drivel from
		the keyboard of Andrew Hay, a.d.hay@att.com

----------
Posted by: emory!petrel.att.com!adh
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 15:51:49 1993
Subject: I need an opinion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



   I am doing over a ford FE 390. I have has had it's rods rebuilt.
 i.e. the big ends are really round and the small ends are rebushed.
 In the process of doing the BIG end the machinist removed material
 from the caps, installed the new bolts (ARP), honed the big end to
 spec and then removed a small amount of material on the sides to make
 them perfectly flat. i.e no shelves.
  
   Now for the question.  The 67 service manual that I have states that
 rod side clearance for 390 is 0.020 - 0.023  and for the 427 is
 0.020 - 0.027 ( I hope I remembered them right ).  Anyway, the machinist
 says that my side clearance will be 0.030 +.  Is this an issue?

   I am boosting the oil flow by cross drilling the crank, and installing
 a high volume pump.  

   I really think that the fellow at the machine shop is being honest when he
 says it won't really matter, But?  He does have a shop full of interesting
 motors and people seem to be fond of his work.  I just would like a 
 second, third .....  opinion.



                    / \
                   <   ) 
 \==================   ==================/  This is all mine, no one else's.
  \================     ================/   Bill Poudrier  Maynard MA, 01754 
                  /// \\\

THANKS!!

----------
Posted by: emory!genrad.com!wdp (William D. Poudrier)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 15:56:47 1993
Subject: tires
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

(I asked about MT tires in a previous post)
I am looking for street tires basically. They will see some use at the
drag strip, but not much. I need fairly good sidewall for handling on the
street, but I need a decent compund also to prevent the tire from
turning into smoke like my old pirellis or dust like my BFG's. I once
had Pirelli P500's with an open rear. They (the right rear, anyway) made
lots of smoke. When I installed a posi diff I got another surprise - 
wheel hop. This turned out to be caused by the Pirelli's inability to
handle power. (they were only little 185 70 13's) The BFG's I have
now don't hop, but they do turn to dust during burnouts. The spin
far too long also. What I need is a tire that will hook. I don't want
something REALLY soft like racemasters or hoosiers. My friend had
Hoosiers on his 'stang for a while. His car got truly lousy gas mileage
and the things were constantly getting punctures. He also lost about
1.6 mph in the quarter, although he went .1 second quicker.

----------
Posted by: James D Rosemary 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 16:01:07 1993
Subject: Re: Speaking of airflow...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In article <0d9sz5a@dixie.com> hotrod@dixie.com writes:
>[I trashed 2 racing engines in a row several years ago thanks to K&N.  
>Stubborn me, I couldn't believe that heavily advertised filter would
>pass enough dirt to trash an engine in one race so I bought a new filter
>and tried it again.  Needless to say, even my (non-hotrodded) lawnmower
>will ever see a K&N.  JGD]

	So, what's your opinion of foam air filters (e.g., Uniflow)?  I'm 
running a K&N on the H-D right now, but I got a new foam filter with the
new air cleaner to replace the one damaged by the pavement when the Izuzu
got the other side of me.

[Oiled foam is what is used for off-road racing because they are not
degraded by becomming wet.  They are still, IMHO, inferior to paper
filters.  I wouldn't consider using anything except paper for a 
street or dry track engine.  It is common to see foam filters OVER 
paper using the theory that the foam will grab the big grunge that would
quickly clog the paper and then the paper grabs the small stuff.

There is a very easy way to evaluate the effectiveness of a filter. 
Simply coat the surfaces between the filter and the carb intake with
a very thin layer of grease.  Some portion of any dirt that gets by will
stick to the grease.  If the grease gets gritty, the filter is not working.
If it stays clean, the filter IS working.  JGD]

	Misc. question:  Does anyone know how to make rn automagically insert
the "Reply-To" line with the correct address so I don't have to type it in
by hand all the time?  Email with the response so we don't clutter the list.
(I've RTFMed and I still can't figure it out).

Later,
-- 
Chris BeHanna	DoD# 114          1983 H-D FXWG Wide Glide - Jubilee's Red Lady
behanna@syl.nj.nec.com	          1975 CB360T - Baby Bike
Disclaimer:  Now why would NEC
agree with any of this anyway?    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.

----------
Posted by: emory!phoenix.syl.nj.nec.com!behanna (Chris BeHanna)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 16:05:29 1993
Subject: Re:  ZF
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams) asks

>  I wrote off to ZF North America's Chicago office for some more
> up-to-date information (the last packet I had was from 1983) and they've
> moved, and forwarding has expired. 

Glad to be of assistance (not much else I can add to this group,
but I do like reading it).

ZF of North America Inc.

708-634-3500

777 Hickory Hill Drive
Vernon Hills
60061


I called to confirm the address (it was different from the phone book
address). and they have a routing system.  These are some of the
options:

marine transmissions
original equipment off highway sales
original equipment on-highway sales
technical assistance

Hope this is helpful.

Richard Beckwith

beckwith@ils.nwu.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!ogun.ils.nwu.edu!beckwith (Richard Beckwith)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 17:30:04 1993
Subject: Re: plug wires
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In article <039sh6h@dixie.com> lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu writes:
>A non-net.person reccomended some fiberglass reinforced wires made by
>MSD..  anyone have any experience with those?

Yeah, I used them for a while on my '85 Mustang.  The only problem I had
was due to improper crimping -- my fault, they were a crimp-it-yourself
kit.  An ohmmeter quickly isolated the problem.  MSD wires are as good
as any out there.
 -- Chuck
-- 
     Chuck Fry  chucko@ptolemy.arc.nasa.gov  chucko@freud.arc.nasa.gov
   Join the Silicon Valley protest against 55 MPH!  Email me for details.
	    I alone bear responsibility for the claptrap above.

----------
Posted by: emory!freud.arc.nasa.gov!chucko (Chuck Fry)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 17:35:07 1993
Subject: Re: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In article , hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
> 
> -> Would anyone care to commment on the best way to adjust the rockers
> -> on a smallblock chevy with a hydraulic cam?
> 
>  Start the motor, back off one rocker at a time until it starts to
> chatter, snug it until it just quits, then tighten 1/4 turn.

And watch for the squirting oil from the small hole in the pushrod end
of the rocker arm.  ;^)  You might want to "invest" in some of the
little clips that go on that end of the rocker arm to deflect the oil.
Another way to deal with the mess is to cut a slot in the top of a
spare rocker cover that allows access to the adjustment nut, but keep
everything else covered.  I think the old article (early 70's Hot Rod
or some such) that recommended this trick also suggested cementing a
gasket to the cover and using a light coat of grease on the surface of
gasket that contacts the head.

I used to run a 327 in a '63 Impala SS that consistently ran detectably
smoother at 3/4 of a turn past zero lash.  The spec on that engine was
1 turn past.  I tried 1/4, 1/2 and 1 turn, but it was always better at 3/4.
It was a subtle difference, but each time as I tightened from zero lash,
the idle would improve steadily until I past 3/4.  The improvement seemed
to exist at all RPMs.

The situation was the same running the stock 275 HP cam or the 300 HP
Corvette cam.  (I did use two different sets of lifters.)  This engine
powered the Impala, a '58 Chevy half ton truck and a '65 Corvair
(midengine Kelmark kit).  

I would recommend a bit of experimentation when adjusting hydraulics.

[Less messy method removed to save net bandwidth...]

> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

-- 
 "There's no such thing as fast enough!"  | Mark Walker
     (Or something to that effect...)     | mwalker@chama.eece.unm.edu
                James Taylor              | 505/277-3688  (home 899-0644)
                _Two_Lane_Blacktop_       | Albuquerque, NM

----------
Posted by: emory!lynx.unm.edu!chama.eece.unm.edu!mwalker (Mark Walker)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 17:59:55 1993
Subject: Triathlon of Motor Sports
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Newsgroups: alt.hotrod
Subject: Triathlon of Motor Sports

I just received and read the "Competition Code" for the Triathlon of Motor
Sports; it's pretty short--only eight pages, plus one page of addenda.
There are minimal restrictions on your setup:  one car/driver combination,
same engines/trannys/gear ratios in all events, and one DOT-approved tire
make/size/compound in all events.  Tires can be sticky "R compound", but they
have to have at least 2/32" tread depth.  Safety requirements include a roll
_bar_ for _open_ cars (recommended for all cars), a 5- or 6-point harness, a
2.5lb BC fire extinguisher, helmet, fireproof shoes & gloves, and non-synthetic
full-length clothes (Levi's and a long-sleeved cotton shirt will do).  That's
about it; there are no rules against re-tuning your shocks and alignment
between, say, the drag and the oval, or (as far as I can tell) bolting on
hop-stop bars for the drag, and removing them and installing anti-sway bars
for the road course.  And no, there's no rule against running alcohol or
even nitromethane (though the latter presumably would fall under unnatural
aspiration rules below, due to its oxygen content).

"Purpose-built race cars" run in 7 classes, based on engine displacement:
GT-A, >6L; GT-B, 5-6L; GT-C, 3-5L; GT-D, 2-3L; GT-E, 1.6-2L; GT-F, 1.3-1.6L;
and GT-H, <1.3L.  Multi-valved normally-aspirated cars are bumped up one
class (e.g., a 32-valve 5.7L V8 runs in GT-A, not GT-B), and unnaturally-
-aspirated (turboed, blown, nitroused...) cars are bumped up two classes.

"Production-based cars" run in 7 classes, based on weight as well as engine:
A-P, >6L; B-P, 5-6L, >3500lb; C-P, 3-5L, >3000lb; D-P, 2-3L, >2500lb;
E-P, 1.8-2L, >2100lb; F-P, 1.4-1.8L, >1825lb; G-P, <1.4L, >1500lb.  If your
car weighs less than the weight limit, it is bumped up one class (e.g., a
350 Chevelle stripped to weigh 3400lb runs in A-Production, not B-Production);
_in_addition_, multi-valved or unnaturally-aspirated cars cars are bumped up
as above.  (The rules say "age may be used as a factor at the discretion of
the Director of Classification", and in the addenda there is a specification
that '84-present Corvettes run in A-Production; I guess they were right at
the weight breakpoint, and they run well enough that ballasting them into
B-Production gave an unfair advantage, or something like that.)  A roll cage
attached to suspension pickup points, or modified chassis and suspension
pickup points, moves a car into the GT classes.  This does not preclude
replacing rubber with poly or Del-A-Lum bushings or solid body mounts, or
even replacing control arms, as the _Hot_Rod_ crew did to their '65 Chevelle.

There are trophies for 1st through 3rd overall, and money for 1st overall
and 1st in class (and up to 5th in class if there are a minimum number of
entrants); there are Outstanding Achievement and Outstanding Sportsmanship
trophies as well.

Looks like fun; they even have a Novice class before the event, so somebody
like me without an NHRA, SCCA, or other license could drive in and get legal
before race day.  Now I just gotta get the car built...

--Mark Looper
"Hot Rodders--America's first recyclers!"

----------
Posted by: emory!asgard.srl.caltech.edu!looper (Mark Looper)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 18:01:24 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> I could see Shelby American maybe having one or two spares around, but
>43?  That's a hard figure to believe.  Also, why bother to title them?
>Hard as it is to believe, 427 Cobras were not only available, but could
>be had relatively cheap - some of them sat in disgruntled dealers' lots
>for a couple of years before they were sold.  Also, there was no reason
>
> Titling and squirreling away 43 chassis against an inflation and
>collector craze nobody could have predicted seems awfully peculiar for a
>45-ish guy with a heart condition who's both famous and moderately well
>off.

>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)

I think you answered your own question there.  They weren't selling, so he
didn't finish the last batch.  I doubt that he predicted the rise in value,
but he may have decided to keep the stuff and keep it legal since he already
had it.  (i.e. if you already have it, it's free, and maybe it'll be worth
_something_ some day.  Why throw it out?)

David Wright

----------
Posted by: David Wright 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 18:04:58 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

>(stuff deleted) 
>
>  I could see Shelby American maybe having one or two spares around, but
> 43?  That's a hard figure to believe.  Also, why bother to title them?
>
>(stuff deleted) 
> ----------
> Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
>  
Assuming the story is true....
Those chassis could have been titled while the project was still alive,
but became unbuilt leftovers.  Since Cobras tended to get driven in anger,
(at least in the early days) maybe Shel figured he could make a few bucks
selling replacement chassis to owners who bent theirs.

And if he had the space to store them, why throw them out?

I am always amazed at how many old race cars get stowed away after they 
are no longer competitive. I suspect that after putting so much blood,
sweat, and tears into a race car, the owners can't bear to get rid of the
things.

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 18:09:43 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I disagree if he has a pinkslip.  He just pays the fees and drives down 
the road.mgb

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 18:14:08 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

As I recall, the reason he has all these chassis' was that at the time 
inorder to meet the sanctioning body rules for production numbers of 
vehicles inorder to qualify to race , he bought and organized all the parts 
and partially complete in meeting these requirements when the sanctioning
body up and changed the rules, either reducing the numbers or cutting out
requirement altogether.  Shelby had already collected all the parts and had
actually titled all these things as part of the "plan" to meet the sanctioning
body requirements for production although I do not believe the intention 
was to get them all on the road.  Once the requirement went away, he stopped
working on them and squired them away. Apparently they used them like "hangar
queens" for some spare parts over the years, but essentially, he had all
the makings to bring them back from the dead.  When I think what I could 
have paid for one of those back in 70-71 when I bought my 911, versus what
they are worth today.  Of course not all of us have that kind of crystal
ball.  Believe the article was in ROAD & TRACK. mgb

----------
Posted by: emory!nprdc.navy.mil!brattlan (CDR Michael Brattland)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 18:19:23 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

Just after hitting the "send" key on that last message, I realized I
had some faulty logic. As the manufacturer, Shelby wouldn't have titled
them, only had a certificate of origin...

So, when were they actually titled? 1965 or more recently?

----------
Posted by: Dave Tartaglia 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 20:57:11 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com



>>" I haven't ever found a quantitative description of how Holley pump cam 
>>profiles go."

>>I understand that one of the Holley books has quantitative data
>>for these cams...

>>Better yet, if someone has the Holley book maybe they would be
>>willing to post the factory data.

I have H.P. Books' Holley Carburetors & Manifolds, by Mike Urich and 
Bill Fisher, ca. 1976... (It says $4.95 on the cover, can you believe it!).
Anyway, there's a bar graph on page 35, which I'll turn into ASCII below.  
There's also some information in the Performance tuning section which may
be of interest.

I notice that the the amount of gas squirted corresponds to the degree of
throttle opening, which seems to support their statement that the position
of the cam, not the shape, is most important for _drag_race_ applications.

Info follows.....


                                                                              
                                                                              
                                                                              
ACCELERATOR PUMP CAPACITY WITH DIFFERENT CAMS 
For models 2300, 4150, 4160, 4165, 4175                               
                                                                              
Cam in position 2:

color:              black  white   red    blue   orange   green   pink
capacity:           18cc   19.5cc  20cc   20cc   24.5cc   30cc    37.5cc
throttle opening:   18     19.5    20     20     24.5     30      37.5
    (degrees)

Cam in position 1:

color:              white  blue   red     orange  black  green  pink   brown
capacity:           17cc   18cc   18.5cc  19cc    19cc   24cc   30cc   36cc
throttle opening:   17     18     18.5    19      19     24     30     36
                                                            
"This graph was made from tests of the various cams run with a
 high-capacity pump (50cc per 10 strokes maximum), clearance of
 .015 inch on the pump lever at WOT, and constant idle air flow.
 Capacities are in cc's per 10 strokes."

 
To quote from the section on tuning accelerator pumps:

"Two symptoms often appear.  The first of these is that the car bogs,
then goes.  This can be caused by pump-discharge nozzles which are
too small so not enough fuel is supplied fast enough.  The second
symptom is one of the car starting off in seemingly good fashion - then
bogging - then going once more.  We are talking about drag-race starting
here, of course.  In this second situation, the pump discharge
nozzles may be correctly sized but the pump is not big enough to
supply sufficient capacity to carry the engine through.

Solving the first problem may mean using larger pump discharge
nozzles, which may lead to the need for a larger pump.... 
In the second case smaller nozzles may be tried in the hope that the
existing pump size will then handle the capacity requirement.  If
that fails, then a larger pump should be tried with the original
nozzles. 

As a general rule, the more load that the engine sees, the more pump
shot that is needed in rate and volume.  For instance, if an 1800 RPM
stall speed converter is replaced with a 3000 RPM converter in an
automatic transmission, the shooter (discharge-nozzle) size can be
reduced. The same would be true whe replacing a light flywheel with a
heavier one. This is because the engine sees less load as the vehicle
leaves the line in each instance.

Shooter size tuning is best done by increasing the nozzle diameter (or
decreasing it) until a crisp response is obtained when the throttle is
snapped open on a free engine (no-load). When crisp response is
obtained, increase the nozzle size another .002 inch and the
combination will probably be driveable for a drag application.

If the pump cam provides full lift and therfore full travel for the
pump diaphragm, the shape of the cam is not important for drag-race
applications. The cam merely provides a way to compress the override
spring so that the spring will cause the pump to deliver its shot into
the engine.  The position of the cam on the throttle shaft is very
important for the drag racer.  The relation of throttle opening to cam
lift is shown (in the graph above). This clearly shows that if the
throttle is opened very far to provide staging RPM, much of the cam
lift is used up so that the pump cannot deliver a full shot.

Ford's Bud Elliott suggests that the racer determine what throttle
opening is required to obtain the desired staging RPM.  Then the cam
should be rotated backward on the shaft until the pump lever again
rests on the heel of the cam (no-lift position).  You may find that
one of the existing holes will line up with a hole in the throttle
lever - or it may be necessary to drill another hole in the plastic
cam to allow the desired positiong.

Be sure to check that there is NO clearance between the pump actuating
lever and the cam.  Resetting the throttle to a lower idle speed can
move the cam away from the lever - delaying the pump shot. A mere 2
degree throttle movement should move the pump lever.  When
readjusting the pump operating lever adjusting screw, be sure to
check that there is .015 to .020 inch additional travel for the
diaphragm lever at WOT between the lever and the adjusting screw."




----------
Posted by: emory!wv.MENTORG.COM!derekd (Derek Deeter)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 21:01:12 1993
Subject: Titling bare chassis)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

In article  Dave Williams wonders:
 
> I could see Shelby American maybe having one or two spares around, but
>43?  That's a hard figure to believe.  Also, why bother to title them?

Well, if one were trying to meet homolugation figures for some race
sanctioning organization, in order to go head to head to with some
exotic, bright red Italian sports cars, claiming that a pile of bare
chassis were real cars would be one possible approach.

mjb.

-- 
Why do I get the impression that when politicians talk of "family values"
in government, they really mean "treat the voters like children?"

                                                 mjb@triumph.cs.utah.edu

----------
Posted by: emory!triumph.cs.utah.edu!mjb (Mark J Bradakis)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Wed Feb 24 21:33:50 1993
Subject: Banned Cars
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Most of this is from memory of reading Andy Granitelli's
-> autobiography. This is a very good read, BTW.  He and his brothers
-> did some really

 The Granatellis had their ducks in a row, pretty much.  Some years ago
one of the rod magazines decided to build The World's Fastest Camaro.
They had Gale Banks build them an ultimate killer twin turbo,
intercooled 350.  It self-destructed.  They did three or four meltdowns
before Banks decided they were standing on it too hard, or something.
Apparently their usual boat motor buyers would just blip the throttle
for an occasional thrill, but the motor wouldn't hold together for a
sustained pull up to 200 or so.  I don't remember if Banks was ever able
to make the thing hold together.

 Another magazine hired the Granatellis to build a faster car, and they
did.  Worked the first time, no muss, no fuss.


 If I hadn't disposed of most of my magazines last year I could probably
find the relevant articles, but they were in the mid '80s, best as I
remember.
                                                                            

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 00:33:53 1993
Subject: Re: New 427SCs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> more like $3,000 per tub. So what if he winds up having to cough up
-> the $5.66 per year per tub?

 A 427 chassis is a very simple round tubing ladder.  No tub.
                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 00:46:27 1993
Subject: Re: New 427SCs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> I don't think so:  No back taxes since Shelby didn't have _income_ on
-> the frames (until now).  Of course, he'll have to pay taxes on the
-> profits

 Depends on what state Shelby's home of record is.  Most places, the
cars would still fall under "personal property" and be taxable.
Arkansas hits me $80/yr for a ten year old motorcycle and a
thirty-three year old car.
                                                                         

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 00:58:12 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> I think you answered your own question there.  They weren't selling,
-> so he didn't finish the last batch.  I doubt that he predicted the
-> rise in value, but he may have decided to keep the stuff and keep it
-> legal since he already had it.  (i.e. if you already have it, it's
-> free, and maybe it'll be worth _something_ some day.  Why throw it
-> out?)

 If there were really extra chassis, wouldn't they have been part of the
inventory when Shelby American was liquidated?  Heck, if I was going to
keep something around, it would be the mid-engined Cobra prototype or
something.

 Considering the man has had a couple of bad heart attacks and a
transplant, it looks like he would have cashed 'em in long ago.  If
*I* were 60 years old and had my second or third Big One, you could bet
I'd get the money now so I could spend it while I was alive instead of
waiting, what, ten years later?
                                                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 02:57:49 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> If I remember correctly...been a while...but didnt Mopar use a 3spd
-> Torqueflite WITHOUT torque convertor in the turbine cars? Dont
-> forget, a gas turbine gives full torque at stall.

 I don't have anything other than vague impressions (where ARE the Mopar
freaks when you need them?) but I thought the turbines had problems with
throttle response, so a variable pitch convertor was used to give them
some zing.  Then again, none of the articles I've read on the Chrysler
turbine car were very technical.

 I'd like to find out some more about this, but it's not worth a couple
of months and fifty bucks' worth of SAE papers to find out.
                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 03:01:39 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> " Chrysler Turbine Car, maybe, but the Tucker was a rear engined, air
-> "cooled flat six (eight?), used an aircraft engine for power.

> franklin 6.  they sold out to poland in the '70s and the engines are
> now known as pzl-franklins.

 Franklin?  Is this the same Franklin that built an entire air-cooled
automobile back before WWII, or just a coincidence?
                                                                                

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 03:06:08 1993
Subject: I need an opinion
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Now for the question.  The 67 service manual that I have states that
-> rod side clearance for 390 is 0.020 - 0.023  and for the 427 is 0.020
-> - 0.027 ( I hope I remembered them right ).  Anyway, the machinist
-> says that my side clearance will be 0.030 +.  Is this an issue?

 This came up last month.  General concensus seems to be it should be
fine.
                                                                                      

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 03:10:26 1993
Subject: Re:  ZF
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> Glad to be of assistance (not much else I can add to this group, but
-> I do like reading it).
->
-> ZF of North America Inc.

 Thanks, Richard!  I'll add it to the Contact List.
                 

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 03:15:04 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> As I recall, the reason he has all these chassis' was that at the
-> time inorder to meet the sanctioning body rules for production
-> numbers of vehicles inorder to qualify to race , he bought and
-> organized all the parts and partially complete in meeting these
-> requirements when the sanctioning body up and changed the rules,
-> either reducing the numbers or cutting out requirement altogether.
-> Shelby had already collected all the parts and had actually titled
-> all these things as part of the "plan" to meet the sanctioning

 The FIA required 50 to certify a car as "production."  43 from 50
leaves 7, which is the number of Daytona coupes... but the coupes were
just modified roadsters and raced as such, they were never homologated
as a separate car.

 There was no requirement for titling a car - lots of countries and some
US states didn't even require them - or even registering them, as far as
I know.  They just had to be built, like Porsche's fleet of garage queen
917s.
                                                                           

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 03:19:40 1993
Subject: Re: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> > chatter, snug it until it just quits, then tighten 1/4 turn.
->
-> And watch for the squirting oil from the small hole in the pushrod
-> end of the rocker arm.  ;^)  You might want to "invest" in some of

 Most of my work is on Fords, which don't seem to have the
squirt-in-your-face problem Chevys do.    Good idea though.


-> (midengine Kelmark kit).

 Kelmark kit?  Do you have a current address for Kelmark?
    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 03:24:14 1993
Subject: Re: Speaking of airflow...
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article <0d9sz5a@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com writes...
> 
>With all this talk of carb airflow, does anyone have some real numbers on
>the relative flow rate of air filters, such as K&N, ITG, and those nice shiny
>chrome things that cost about $7.49 at the national chain stores?
> 
>mjb.
> 
>[I trashed 2 racing engines in a row several years ago thanks to K&N.  
>Stubborn me, I couldn't believe that heavily advertised filter would
>pass enough dirt to trash an engine in one race so I bought a new filter
>and tried it again.  Needless to say, even my (non-hotrodded) lawnmower
>will ever see a K&N.  JGD]
      ^^^^
      never, right John?  interesting fact.  Haven't had a problem with mine, and
the filter itself has quite a few (> 50K) miles on it.  It *does* get dirty - 
I had someone remark that my K&N filter had the distinguishing feature of
being the dirtiest one he'd ever seen...
>----------
>Posted by: emory!triumph.cs.utah.edu!mjb (Mark J Bradakis)


Mike Jamison

"Scientific research consists in seeing what everyone else has seen, but
thinking what no one else has thought"

						-A. Szent-Gyorgyi

----------
Posted by: emory!mars.lerc.nasa.gov!edwlt12 (Mike Jamison (ADF))
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Thu Feb 25 03:28:54 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 > 
> Thanks for the suggestions, Dennis.   I'd agree that I have a big 
> carb on such a stock engine but I originally had planned to have 
> it built out.  But my problem is that I drive to Chicago from Peoria 
> and back almost every weekend.  Thats close to 300 miles every weekend. 
> I also drive the car every day (yes even in some of the worst snow 
> days).

Nothing like posi traction to get unstuck in that stuff.  It bailed me
out in Wisconsin many a time.  Hey I'm usually to dumb to stay home
when there is 15 inches of new snow on the ground also.

>  Would such a higher gear screw up my gas THAT much?  Right 
> now I get about 160 miles per tank

If you have a stocfk 3.08 rear and go to 3.73 that tank of gas should
last between 130 and 145 miles.
.  
> Oh yea, I forgot to tell you what kind of tires I am sporting:  Brand 
> new Eagle ST's 245R14's.   :)
> 
> By the way, on the average, how much would a new rearend cost?
                                               ^^^^
New I would say 1,000 and upward.  Used anywhere from $60.00 on to
about $500.00 to rebuild yours with all new inners.  I would start
checking the bone yards first.
> 
 

----------
Posted by: emory!picard.med.ge.com!bednarek (Dennis Bednarek Mfg 4-6971 ~BHOSVWZ#097)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 16:09:53 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> Okay, here's the token Mopar freak.

> Token my posterior.  You guys have your own list!  You just sit back at
>your monitors and observe over here, waiting for someone to make just
>one little teeny error, and then you'll all pounce.  Yep.  I'm wise to
>your sneaky little plans.... er, time for my medication... :-)
>  
Heres your pill, Dave: a big blue one, Im just about finished shining it
up :-)
JD



----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 16:13:39 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:

>Now all we need is 

>1).PE to do an article on:
>"turbine installation for yor daily driver" {-- JGD -- any more news for the 
>interested netters?}

I volunteer to do the swap ;-) Just send the money, lotsa money ;-)


>2). someone to post to the net with a parts list of the stuff needed to 
>assemble such a vehicle. Trans type, mounting issues, etc...

>3). Dave W. to make the needed turbine at a cheaper rate than anyone else...

>By the way, How loud is this thing going to be installed in a car? 

Forget the noise, the real fun will be decarbonizing it at the local
show and shine: fire it up, and shovel in the ground walnut shell. Sure
to be a crowd pleaser.

JD






----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 16:18:02 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> but no convertor. Seems to me one of there big advances on this last
>-> effort was reducing throttle response lag down to a second or so. I
>-> think the turbine is a dead issue in any application where a wide

> Didn't GMC or Terex build turbine 18-wheelers back in the '60s?
>                                     
GM, I think. Read an article about it, not to long ago, but cant
remember where, of course. Seems to me Ford had a big truck turbine
project, also.
JD



----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 16:23:22 1993
Subject: Re: SBC hydraulic lfter adjustment
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


> There's nothing wrong with the 389, but 400s are dirt-common for a
>simple power increase, and the modern parts will fit.  Pontiac did some
>rearranging of bolt patterns and stuff in the early '60s.  The top dogs
>are the 421, 428, and 455, but they're getting hard to find.

Dont forget that those old pontiac engines had adifferent bell housing
pattern at the back of the block. I think they changed to the BOP
rabbit ear setup in 63-64. Of course, no one would want to use the newer
style engine with one of those *funny* hydromatic thingies from the late
'50s early '60s, right? Just remember: late style engine, late style 
trans.

JD
----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 16:27:07 1993
Subject: Re: Chevy Valve Adj.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

The Hotrod List writes:
> 
> Suggestion for Chevy Valve Adj.
> 
> Take an old pair of chevy valve covers and cut a one inch slot down
> the center.  Remove valve covers and replace with the sloted covers.
> Start the engine and adjust valaes.  This will prevent the oil
> from squirting all over the engine compartment.
> 

With roller rockers and stud girdles, oil spray is not a problem
on my engine.  I do have a nice drip of oil from the rear corners
on the heads, but its not too bothersome. 

On a different note, had the the truck on the chassis dyno to document
the problems we are having with our CNG carb, and had hit running at WOT
for a few minutes (not a monster chassis dyno, just not making much power).
Had the headers glowing bright orange...  very bright considering that the
headers are coated with Jett-hot thermal barrier coating AND wrapped in
thermotec.  Maybe we need to bump the timing a bit :)


-- 
--=< Jonathan Lusky ----- lusky@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu >=-- 
    \    IRC-Op at tramp.cc.utexas.edu (Rodder)   /
     \    89 Jeep Wrangler - 258/for sale!       / 
      \        79 Rx-7 - 12A/Holley 4bbl        / 
       \________67 Camaro RS - 350/4spd________/ 

----------
Posted by: emory!ccwf.cc.utexas.edu!lusky (Jonathan R. Lusky)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 16:32:10 1993
Subject: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


In article <2h9s0rh@dixie.com>, hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:
|> 
|> >  2 Engine takes off well but bogs in the 2000-3000 rpm range.
|> 
|> 	I am also experiencing this problem with my firebird. I have a 67
|> firebird and placed a 350 motor into it. Was not original idea but to long to
|> go into details of why i ended up with the 350, but its a wonder what a fire 
|>can do to 454 forged pistons!!! Anyway my 350 is a rollor motor with following
|> equipment:
|> 
|> 			The jets were upped from the original 96 in front
|> 			  and 98 in the back.
|> 			The power valve was taken out and plugged.
                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I am not quite sure I understand this modification.  The power valve
adds extra fuel to the main well during high demand.  The valve itself
(single stage assumed) has excellent flow characteristics and will not
choke flow.  In fact the flow is controlled by the channel restriction
holes in the metering block.  If you remove and plug the thing you must
compensate via the main jets.  (step up signifigantly) You will have to
step up the jets enough to compensate for the lost flow through the
PVCR's.  Fuel handling can turn to crap.  The carb is going to run very
rich at part throttle and is suseptable to flooding through the main
jets during any G forces.  If this car *ever* sees the street I wouldnt
take out the power valve.

[Correct.  All removing the power valve does is guarantee a fat, blubbery
mid-range.  JGD]

Sorry for the delay, my server has been constipated for about a week and they
finally cleared things up.



|> 		fuel pump forgot what size but it gives me 9 pounds at the
|> 			carb.
|> 
|> 	The problem is it comes out of the hole great but as soon as i hit 
|> second gear it boggs like it is starving for fuel. You know now that i think 
|> about it perhaps its the stall coverter because it tachs great in first its
|> just second gear that it can't deal with. I went cheap on the stall I put in 
|> a vega stall (3500) once you take of the shield.  Perhaps? What do ya think?


Sounds as though you wre getting plenty of fuel at the carb and not starving
at the top end, at what rpm did the shifts take place?  

John
----------
Posted by: (Eric Youngblood)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 16:37:53 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> 3). Dave W. to make the needed turbine at a cheaper rate than anyone
-> else...

 Dave's Law:  "Cheap is a quality overriding many faults."

 Everyone should have their own law, right?


-> By the way, How loud is this thing going to be installed in a car?

 The Chrysler Turbine had mufflers large enough to stuff children into.
Hmmm... possibly a good use for excess rug rats.
                                                             

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 16:42:53 1993
Subject: Stroking my 351W to better propel my Cougar.
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


-> My heads are the J302 with 2.02 intakes

 Do you have flow numbers for these heads?  I've looked all over for
them in vain, and Ford SVO has been little help.  Well, actually zero
help.


-> When I get my EFI manifold together, it is very similar to the 427FE
-> mechanical unit with crossed inlet ports. 2" throttles and 19.5" long
-> runners. It should improve my torque curve considerably.:)

 I've thought about that for my Cleveland-headed Windsor, but I went
ahead and got the B&A Track BOSS intake.  The only workable intake for
your J302 heads is the new Edelbrock Performer RPM-351W, and it's about
$250 even discounted.  "Everyone knows" Windsors are low RPM slugs good
only for motorhomes and LTDs, so there's a severe shortage of good
intakes.

 How are you planning to build the FI manifold?  Plate bottom and sides,
tubing tunners, 8 independent throttles?  Or are you going to run a
single throttle off a plenum?

 At first glance, a single throttle off a plenum would be a lot simpler
and wouldn't interfere with the tuned column effect of the runners, but
it just doesn't have that "fuel injection" look.   
                                                    

----------
Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 19:58:02 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Fastest Car? (fwd)
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

->
->I am always amazed at how many old race cars get stowed away after they 
->are no longer competitive. I suspect that after putting so much blood,
->sweat, and tears into a race car, the owners can't bear to get rid of the
->things.
->
Article I read stated that the rules required 100 cars to be produced
before the type qualified for competition for the world manufacturer's 
championship (not about to debate what "the rules" were).  Goes on to say
that the folks at Ferrari cut corners and went racing after building
only 60 models of its contender.  So Shelby stopped building Cobra SCs
at 57 cars.  Apparently nobody protested ... "That left titles, chassis,
engines and assorted spares for 43 unborn Cobra 427SCs to spend the next
27 years hidden and growing cobwebs in California storage (un-quote)".

Pictures accompanying the article show Shelby inspecting a new Cobra 
under construction and another of him between 2 others in an outdoor
location.  The assembly photo was reportedly taken in Shelby's ware-
house in Gardena, Ca.

I don't know about the technical gymnastics with titles and emissions
and the like, I just found the existance of the cars to be interesting.

-tom

----------
Posted by: emory!msc.edu!tom (Tom Kroeten)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 20:05:12 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I was cleaning up my account, and found this lingering around. I haven't had
a chance to follow up on it yet, but sounds like a fuel/water injection system
recalibration I'd like to try.

Comments?

Vince
'80 Saab 900 Turbo(gonna see hoe much power I can eke out of the
toughest midsized engine I could find cheap.)



X-NEWS: jjmvx1 rec.autos.tech: 43009
Path: cgl!ucbvax!agate!ames!olivea!uunet!news.tek.com!shaman!mithril.wv.tek.com!harmons
From: harmons@mithril.wv.tek.com (Harmon Sommer)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Subject: Water Injection
Message-ID: <2114@shaman.wv.tek.com>
Date: 7 Nov 92 22:51:51 GMT
Sender: news@shaman.wv.tek.com
Reply-To: harmons@mithril.wv.tek.com (Harmon Sommer)
Distribution: usa
Lines: 22

Reference is Turbocharging by McInnes.

He shows graph and data from work by Ricardo in the '30s where an engine 
was run 10% lean and manifold pressure (boost) was increased until the 
onset of detonation. Brake Mean Effective Pressure (BMEP) was 168psi and 
Specific Fuel Consumption (SFC) was 0.4lb/bhp_hour.

The mixture and boost were increased until a BMEP of 237psi was attained and
further enrichment would not  allow more boost to be used. SFC was
0.6lb/bhp_hour.

Water injection was started and fuel mixture decreased as boost was increased
even more. The next limit was at BMEP of 290psi; SFC was 0.45lb/bhp_hr and
water consumption was 0.35lb/bhp_hour.

Going from a lean to rich mixture with boost increased power by 41%.

Going from a lean mixture to slightly richer mixture with water injection
and boost increased power by 72%

The power required for the supercharger was not taken into consideration.
For a turbocharger this is probably free.

----------
Posted by: Vince Reed 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 20:34:18 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com


I think it was on CNN last night--they ran a story about an
inventory in Nevada who had mixed 1 part water with 1 part
gas, added some detergent, and ended up with a white liquid.

He said that after an engine controller chip change and mods
to the fuel system, this fuel was a drop-in replacement for
gas in his Porsche 944. 

The engine did sound smooth running on this (assuming there
wasn't a 20 gallon hidden gas tank in the trunk with the real
stuff :) ).

He said emissions fell 90%, and oil companies are approaching
him in large numbers.  He also said he has no idea how it
works :)

Mike
-- 
mike%jim.uucp@wupost.wustl.edu

[This thread could easily degenerate into a magic elixir discussion which
is against the charter of this list so let's keep this focused on 
hotrodding.  

I have problems with the concept right off the bat because I've seen
bosch injectors rust literally before my eyes after getting a bit of 
water in them.  I have one here in which, being lazy, I dipped the tip in an 
aqueous solution in the ultrasonic cleaner.  The pintle rusted and stuck
literally before I could dry it.  JGD]

----------
Posted by: Vince Reed 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sat Feb 27 20:38:56 1993
Subject: No Subject Line
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

X-NEWS: jjmvx1 rec.autos.tech: 42624
Path: cgl!ucbvax!dog.ee.lbl.gov!overload.lbl.gov!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!news.univie.ac.at!chx400!sicsun!lcaohp2.epfl.ch!boutzev
From: boutzev@lcaohp2.epfl.ch (Lubomir Boutzev)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech
Subject: 1/2 Water+1/2 Pterol : It works !?
Keywords: water injection petrol cars
Message-ID: <4186@sicsun.epfl.ch>
Date: 26 Oct 92 09:52:07 GMT
Sender: news@sicsun.epfl.ch
Reply-To: boutzev@lcaohp1.epfl.ch
Organization: AI crazed sickos.
Lines: 44


Hi !
Here I'm again with my usual water & petrol 
problems.
This time I have some results to share with the community.
Do you remember the post about this 1/2 petrol +1/2 water
juiced up Porsche running in Nevada ? I guess there
was a CNN report about it.
I tried a similar emulsion on my test Briggs&Stratton
petrol generator and it worked fine.
The petrol and water were poured in a mixer together with
a few drops of dishwashing liquid detergent.
The result after mixing was a stable emulsion with a 
nice to see pink color due to the original red color
of the petrol over here.
The engine was warmed-up by running it with petrol,
(the experiment started at -4.0 centigrade !).
The the tank was drained and filled with the "pink"
emulsion.
The carb was drained in order to remove the
remaining petrol.
The engine started at once and ran quite smoothly.
Final really smooth running was obtained by adjusting the
air/emulsion mixture. The carb had to be set a bit richer,
just 1/8 of a turn on the corresponding tunning bolt.
There was not a loss of power and the engine accepted 
overloading conditions without overheating.
The exhaust was less chocking than with pure petrol.
The unit provided electricity for my country house for
about two hours and then I decided to stop the
experiment.
The sparkplug and exhaust pipe were cleaner than with pure
petrol.

This experiment was not very scientific because no precise
measures were taken BUT I'm planning a more rigourous
one really soon.
If this interests you then please drop me a mail so that we can
share our experiences and ideas.
Now I'm looking for some emulsion stabilizers other than this
dishwashing liquid. I guess the engine does not like much
receiving it in the mixture.
I'll post the results.
L. Boutzev

----------
Posted by: Vince Reed 
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 28 00:27:52 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List) writes:


>-> The Tucker Lives Again!

> Chrysler Turbine Car, maybe, but the Tucker was a rear engined, air
>cooled flat six (eight?), used an aircraft engine for power.  Of course,
>back during the '20s and '30s, it wasn't all that unusual to see
>Continental or Lycoming motors in cars.

> Hey, does anyone remember the name of a movie from the mid'60s about
>some hot rodder who built a turbine car and entered it in some sort of
>road race or rally?  I saw it when I was a kid, but I never knew the
>name of the movie.



I remember the movie but not the name,  it was ages ago!...


Peter Cupit.
qpit@werple.apana.org.au
>                                                                  
>[Hmm, Well, Andy Granitelli built an Indy car that ran so good they banned
>it but I can't recall a movie about it.  JGD]
>----------
>Posted by: emory!chaos.lrk.ar.us!dave.williams (Dave Williams)
-- 
Peter David Cupit.
qpit@werple.apana.org.au

----------
Posted by: emory!werple.apana.org.au!qpit (Peter Cupit)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 28 14:33:15 1993
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Air flow into Carbs
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

I've posted an article about your bogging problem.  Did you get it fixed for
sure?  Just wondering.  There have been a lot of suggestions, but few were
right.  I've been racing in the NHRA for a few years now in the Super Comp. and
Competition Eliminator B/ED classes for a few years.  If you want any more help
with tuning or power tips, let me know.  There are lots of simple ways to
decrease your ET's and increase your speed.  My address is munson1@iastate.edu.


					Scott
----------
Posted by: emory!iastate.edu!munson1
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 28 14:37:17 1993
Subject: Re: The Calls I get
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

> The Chrysler Turbine had mufflers large enough to stuff children into.
>Hmmm... possibly a good use for excess rug rats.
>                                                             

Wasnt it WC Fields who said "theres nothing wrong with little children,
as long as they are properly cooked"

----------
Posted by: emory!sfu.ca!jimd (Jim Davies)
 



From hotrod@Dixie.Com Sun Feb 28 14:42:29 1993
Subject: Inital Cam Advance
From: hotrod@dixie.com (The Hotrod List)
To: hotrod@dixie.com

 
    Well, in a week I'm about to finally put together that Olds 350
that I've been bothering everyone about for the last 2 months...
One last question, if I may:

     The cam I've selected (Wolverine grind, something like 204/214 @ .050)
is ground 4 degrees advanced.   I have a roller chain with the
advanceable/retardable/netural crank sprocket.   
     I understand that the 4 degree advance helps low-end torque,
which is the goal of this motor.   Now, when I install the cam, do I:
 
     1: Install crank gear "straight up", for a total of 4 degrees
        intitial advance.
     2: Install crank gear +4 degrees, for a total of 8 degrees 
        intital advance.
     3. Install crank gear -4 degrees, so the cam is effectivly 
        "straight up"

Thanks guys!
 
                     -->   Bob Valentine  <--  
                  --> ravalent@mailbox.syr.edu <--  

----------
Posted by: emory!mailbox.syr.edu!ravalent