t6p.com (bruce) According to the site, Bruce joing t6p.com in December 2003, and had posted 2,792 messages. When I started recovering his messages in August 2007, only about a quarter of them remained, the earliest dated 11/13/2005. -------------------------------------------------------------------- #1 Report Post Old 11-13-2005, 07:43 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Manual Brakes For those of you that just have to have a *light* effort brake pedal, this isn't for you. If you do want as close to failure proof as possible braking, then this is for you. Like all off road use modifiications, if you're not crystal clear on what your doing, farm the work out to a professional, or get as much help as you deem necessary to preform these types of modifications. There is no system as critical as the brakes, so again, proceed only if you know what your doing, or can get the necessary help to use the following information. The .pdf shows how to fabricate a blockoff plate, I just used the 3.95 dimension, and didn't slot the upper holes. If you look at the pedal.jpg you can see the stock hole in the pedal is almost .25" too low, so you might consider working with a PM type pedal, and drill your own hole in the *proper* location. The underhood pics show a 2000 Grand AM M/C, with the different line fittings. You can also see how it bolts up on the upper mounting bolts. A big *help* is getting a spare pedal braket, so that you can weld some 3/8" bolts to the braket from the back side. That way all you have to do is run the nuts down on the underhood side to mount everything up. You want just enough bolt hanging out, to do the job, other wise getting the bracket in place can be a real bear. Depending on what you use for the M/C push rod you may have to have a bushing made to reduce the N/A pedal hole down to 3/8". I used a 3/8" female heim, with a 3/8" fine bolt that I cut to lenght. In my case I have the LS1 front and rear brakes, so your master cylinder selection will be different depending on what brakes you're running. I also *gutted* the stock combination valve. While I did lose the pressure differential switch, the new master cylinder did had a low fluid sensor, so I still do have an indicator of possible leak. Update: No the master cylinder didn't have an attached pushrod, while a poor pic you can see in holder, holderII, and pushrod, where I welded in a *holder* inside the side plates of the pedal bracket that has a 1/2" hole for keeping the pushrod in the master cylinder. You never want to risk having the pushrod fall out of the master cylinder. Again while a poor pic you can see there is only one stoplight switch now. It's a Standard Brand SLS-141. It has two sets of contacts one N.O. and one N.C. Normally open being for the brake lights, and normally closed for the TCC. The no longer is a vacuum release for the cruise control with this set up. Just plugging the vacuum hose going to the cruise, returns it to normal service, but, you just don't have the vacuum release. *********************** 11/14/05 Please note the new picture, *NewArm*. It shows the stock PM arm, with a hole added, and the N/A vacuum booster pedal. The arm with the hole is a PM pedal that was drilled for use with the manual conversion. The difference is that hole is only 1 7/8" from the pivot point of the pedal, compared to the N/A pedal that is 2 3/16". Moving the hole closer to the pivot gives a slightly greater leverage, against the M/C.... The pedal effort is now really, really, really close to that of what it was with the vacuum brakes. The difference is at the extreme end of the scale if you're looking to lock up the brakes, it now takes a tad more pedal effort, but in reality you never want to lock up the brakes, since all it does is increase your stopping distance, and flat spots the tires. You can also see what the Heim Pushrod looks like. While I am prejudged, I'm thrilled with how everything works now. Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: Misalign.jpg Views: 85 Size: 57.0 KB ID: 11197 Click image for larger version Name: Pedals.jpg Views: 93 Size: 58.7 KB ID: 11198 Click image for larger version Name: UnderhoodDS.jpg Views: 129 Size: 38.2 KB ID: 11199 Click image for larger version Name: Underhoodfront.jpg Views: 88 Size: 43.2 KB ID: 11200 Click image for larger version Name: Holder.jpg Views: 80 Size: 33.6 KB ID: 11201 Click image for larger version Name: HolderII.jpg Views: 63 Size: 36.4 KB ID: 11202 Click image for larger version Name: Pushrod.jpg Views: 71 Size: 27.4 KB ID: 11203 Click image for larger version Name: Stoplight.jpg Views: 56 Size: 31.7 KB ID: 11204 Click image for larger version Name: NewArm.jpg Views: 115 Size: 39.7 KB ID: 11214 Attached Files File Type: pdf brakeplate.pdf (11.0 KB, 47 views) Last edited by Bruce : 11-22-2005 at 05:50 PM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 11-13-2005, 08:15 AM LV GN's Avatar LV GN LV GN is offline member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: las vegas Posts: 555 this is a very helpful article. thanks for taking the time.------ does your m/c have a fixed push rod? also with your m/c coming off of a 2000 grand am. did the grand am have manual brake's? or did you just use that style m/c? thanks. Len Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 11-13-2005, 08:24 AM Louie L's Avatar Louie L Louie L is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 398 Bruce, Good article. If I may add when you go to a manual master cyl the normal response for many is to move the rod attachment point high for less pedal effort. This can get you in trouble fast. I know as i did it after hearing from several racers. In my experience the new attachment point should be maybe 1/2 to 3/4 in. from the stock PM pedal point. This gives you a nice sturdy pedal, with some travel. Of course this going to vary from unit to unit. BTW I just installed a Strange MMC , the smaller bore unit on the stock PM to fire wall bracket. The pedal effort is not bad and i would even consider it on a street car. __________________ 1987 Buick Grand National Hartline S2 4.1 260ci. offcenter, New Champion unported intake, GN1R Heads, 9.1 comp,224-224hyd,GT42-76, 4-3.5in. DP, V2 IC, TH400, ATI 9in, 160# inj,SEFI XFI,3.5 in exhaust, Weldon 2015, Wolfe-TRZ rear suspension,Safecraft Fire system 9.22 @ 149.3 1989 Pontiac TTA GT32, Blue tops, Trans+ Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 11-13-2005, 08:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by LV GN this is a very helpful article. thanks for taking the time.------ does your m/c have a fixed push rod? also with your m/c coming off of a 2000 grand am. did the grand am have manual brake's? or did you just use that style m/c? thanks. Len The 2000 GA had 4 wheel discs, and a remote ABS. It also had a low fluid warning sensor. I had tried the Trofeo one, but it was alot more $$. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 11-13-2005, 08:49 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Louie L Bruce, Good article. If I may add when you go to a manual master cyl the normal response for many is to move the rod attachment point high for less pedal effort. This can get you in trouble fast. I know as i did it after hearing from several racers. In my experience the new attachment point should be maybe 1/2 to 3/4 in. from the stock PM pedal point. This gives you a nice sturdy pedal, with some travel. Of course this going to vary from unit to unit. BTW I just installed a Strange MMC , the smaller bore unit on the stock PM to fire wall bracket. The pedal effort is not bad and i would even consider it on a street car. The N/A pedal arm in the pic shows the relocated pin position. I thought between the pic, and mention of using a bushing, I had covered that, but obviously not. I hope this corrects that.. This is what I'm using on my street car. I've been thou this several times, and this set-up is the one that's worked best. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 11-13-2005, 02:52 PM GNVAIR GNVAIR is offline Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Jersey Posts: 14 The 78-80 Malibu,Monte Carlo and El Caminos came with manual brakes with the V6 and no air. I found such a Malibu in the junk yard several years ago and took the whole set up. The master cylinder has a deep bore in the piston in the back for the push rod to fit into. The push rod was a snug fit with a rubber grommet at the end to keep it in there. The pedal was different than any automatic transmission pedal as the pivot location was just a hole for a pin to slide through. It also had the smaller pedal pad that the stick shift cars used even though the car was an automatic. For those of you who have stock brakes, you can specify a master cylinder for one of the vehicles above OR an 82-91? S10 as they also were available with manual brakes. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 11-14-2005, 11:59 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 The original posting has been updated. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 11-14-2005, 12:07 PM LV GN's Avatar LV GN LV GN is offline member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: las vegas Posts: 555 Quote: Originally Posted by Bruce The original posting has been updated. nice work bruce. thanks. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 11-21-2005, 04:48 PM LiV4gnz's Avatar LiV4gnz LiV4gnz is offline Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New JerZ Posts: 225 Send a message via AIM to LiV4gnz is there any such abs on these that you guys ever heard of? Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 11-21-2005, 05:07 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by LiV4gnz is there any such abs on these that you guys ever heard of? Why?. With a properly designed system, premature lock-up, really isn't an issue. On loose gravel, ABS can be worse then non-ABS. It adds alot of complexity, for min results (if any) compared to a well designed system. For Pickup trucks, and vehicles have large variable payloads, tis another matter. The typical ABS units are now typically used to optimise the under sized brakes that are becoming increasing popular. If you want a high performance ABS, then the Bosch/ vette series is the one to investigate. Once you get away from the *numb* over assisted brakes that are sold nowadays, there's a whole new world in developing what *a braking threshold* is about. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Unread 07-16-2007, 09:24 AM sack610's Avatar sack610 sack610 is offline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: louisville kentucky Posts: 93 vac pedal so a vacuum brake pedal will not work without modification? __________________ 86 GN GSCA #3293 www.myspace.com/sack610 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Unread 07-16-2007, 09:37 AM GNVAIR GNVAIR is offline Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: South Jersey Posts: 14 Quote: Originally Posted by sack610 View Post so a vacuum brake pedal will not work without modification? Correct. The pin that hooks to the clevis is welded to the pedal. Its been awhile since I looked, but the manual hole might be there in the vacuum pedal which you could simply get another clevis pin from a hardware store. The stock clevis pin is welded into the pedal. __________________ 1987 Grand National still apart and growing a beard 1989 Mustang notch super charged stock 5.0 558rwhp/556 ft/lbs torque Reply With Quote ------------------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 12-29-2005, 09:52 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Limited-T Are there any suspension kits that have drop spindles included that you guys know of? Or are there some kits that have just the spindles? When I get the suspension re-done I would like to keep it lowered an inch like it was before it got even lower from being worn. The problem with dropped spindles, and not using shorter springs is that you wind up with the top of the tire actually being pushed outward, on bumps. You'll do better for an 1-2" of lowering just to use shorter springs. If you want to really drop her down in the weeds, then do both the springs and spindles. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 01-23-2006, 02:30 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Mad_trbo How are these cars with dropped spindles as far as ride quality? With the dropped spindle I imagine you still have the travel you had before, any problems with the car bottoming out? Additionally wondering if anyone has the dropped spindle along with a QA1 coilover? The spring rate, and ratios all remain the same, so there is no difference. No, the top of the tire is now closer to the fender lip, and with the stock geometry the top of the tires tilts outward on bounce, so you in fact lose suspension travel. Why?. Typically, once you lower the car via using springs, and get the lower arm pararell to the ground, and are using a low profile tire, the car is about as low as practical. I've done both the short spring, and dropped spindle, and the car is strictly now a smooth road only use vehicle. There's less then 3" ground clearance, and that's with the exhaust tucked way up. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 01-23-2006, 07:43 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JP87GN I run drop spindles and the QA1 coil-over conversion in front and it works for me and my taste in ride quality! I do have a minor rub every now and then. I need to trim some fat. Got pics?.. I recall reading where with the QA-1 conversion you run out of adjustment before being able to actually lower the car. I wrote Spohn, and he said he'd so a set of arms with the mounting relocated an inch to help with that. FWIW Could I get you to measure from the center of the spindle to fender lip to get an accurate idea of your ride height?. TIA Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 01-24-2006, 05:49 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JP87GN I cheated Bruce! I clipped 1 1/2 coils off the QA1 Big block springs to get it lower, it is very stiff, but I like it. Because its so stiff it keeps me off the tires like you mentioned. Center off wheel center cap to fender lip is roughly 13" . Oh, that's your car OK, I'm dense at times, ie asking for pics without reading your sig line.... Thanks for the info., measurement, and posting of pics!. ------------------------------------ #17 Report Post Old 02-21-2006, 05:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GN455 I am done buying race fuel, how hard is it to install a Alky kit and tune it. For some people it's extremely hard to do, since it requires some common sense. For the average guy it's a piece cake, only requiring a close look at what going on. But, for those that make up their minds without looking at what's really going on, they'll probably try to force the tune, with what they think the engine wants rather then looking at what the engine is doing, or wanting. In that case, they'll just never get the tune as correct as it could be. Reply With Quote Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #21 Report Post Old 02-26-2006, 08:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Razor Bruce, thats a bit rough. Not everyone wants to mess with a laptop. At some point some of us make the decision we need to learn. And take the appropriate steps. I missed the part about where a laptop come into play.... I'll stand by what I've said, I've spent years online helping folks tune their cars, and for some they'll always try to force the tune, rather then looking at what the engine is asking for, or what makes it happy. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #22 Report Post Old ------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 03-17-2006, 11:39 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Switchblade I'm thinking of removing the AC/heater box. I removed the condenser and pipes for the AC and dont drive the car in cold weather so it serves no purpose. what does the process involve, how complicated is it, etc? I know a lot of guys have done it. It's time consuming if you don't like hac'ing things. There are 2 bolts that are under the fender liner, that are a PITA to get too. Other then that, it's just unbolting the box, and undoing the cables. Mine's sans heater, and I routinely drive the car in 30dF temps.. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 03-17-2006, 12:30 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Archie Can you translate this to english? You know how slow I can be bruce. Sans, means without. Even without a heater, in 30dF temps., there's enough *heat* in my car to be comfortable. The delete plate seems to radiate some heat into the interior, as well as the floorboards (from the exhaust heat). Better?. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 03-17-2006, 01:45 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Archie If your window fogs up, even in the summer nights, you won't be able to de-frost it. I would keep the duck work in place and find a small fan to attach to the end just to keep air flow to the window. You'll be screwed in the rain. I guess that would vary by location, but around here (OH), I think there's been like 3x I've had to use a towel to get rid of fogging. Some claim RainX will relieve that problem. ---------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 03-14-2006, 07:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Mad_trbo There it is, what did you use for the block adaptor, did you leave the fiting in place or take it out and use a 1/2 npt to -10 an fitting? Either way from what I can see it looks good and is pretty close to how I plan on doing mine. It's a 1/2 -> -10 in the block, then the drain piece was a misc part I found at BG a couple years ago. It's **tight** to get in the first time, but after a few days it takes a set, and is easy to work with after that. And take your time on figuring out the exact lenght of the hose. An 1/8" on this one, can make it a real headache to get in. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 03-26-2006, 06:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbopowered68 on the oil return. '85 block '87 stuff can i go from the turbo to the timing cover instead of drilling the block. The problems are leakage. The turbo drain is going to just drain onto the timing chain, and constantly be splashed against the cover, it will try to leak. It's easier to add a drain hole to the pan, IMO. Be sure to keep it at least an inch above the oil full mark if you do. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #20 Report Post Old --------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 03-16-2006, 07:48 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Lean, and high EGTs. It caused the valve guide to start to gall, and resulting breakage, and the tips of the turbine, show at least thermal damaging in the way the one crack looks to be a *slow* fracture, *in progess*. The long slender fracturing of the guide, is what lead me to use the work gall, since that's what it looks like from the pic.. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 03-16-2006, 07:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Ugh.... Not to sound arrogant, or pompous, but with all the carnage that you've seemed to have gone through, I think you might consider a starting over with the type/style of tuning your doing. It just seems that you've suffered dearly in the broken parts category, is all. Reply With Quote -------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #40 Report Post Old 03-27-2006, 06:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 I've run 28 PSI without alky, for a few years before lifting a head. You can blow a headgasket from repeatedly thermally stressing an engine. Nothing lasts forever, with TR the headgaskets are the fuse...... With a F/M, and alky, I'm now running 89 octane. With the lower octane I can run less timing, more effectively, since the lower octane dosen't NEED as much timing as the higher ones. With the alky for additional in cylinder cooling, and F/M I can see running the 28 again, but now on 89, and making plenty of power. Well, that and having an ignition system up to fully lighting off the charge. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message --------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 03-28-2006, 02:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Steve88 I want to lower my WE4 but I don't want it to be overly stiff so that I can have a reasonable amount of weight transfer. I know it will need to be some stiffer in order to make up for the lack of suspension travel once lowered but I am looking for a happy medium. I am looking for about a 2" drop. I would consider drop spindles but I am somewhat concerned about bumpsteer so any feedback on drop spindles would be appreciated.. I would consider most any option to get the car lower without killing weight transfer and leaving some amount of ride quality. Dropped spindles, hardly effect the bumpsteer. The change is almost meaningless. The problem with dropped spindles, and the stock A-Arms geometry is that in bump, the tire is pushed into positive chamber, and you can lose wheel to fender clearance QUICKLY...... Dropped spindles, with smallish front tires, will get you low, but don't forget, dropping the nose changes the IC to CG relationship, and the way the chassis will react anywho.... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ---------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 03-29-2006, 08:09 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by thepremier I need to buy new shocks for my 87 GN. The thing that has been somewhat of a confusion to me is knowing actually what to buy. I am going to need all 4 shocks replaced, but when I'm looking for prices, they have two categories which is for the STRUT/SHOCKS and just the Shocks. What exactly is the Strut, and how do I know if I need to buy the Struts & Shocks for the front? Hopefully somebody can help me learn something new tonight. Thanks You *want* to get 4 Bilstein shocks..... I've run every brand other then the Koni Racing series, and the Bilsteins are without a doubt the best out there. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ------------------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 07-26-2005, 01:10 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 87 Gn 87 GN, AKA *The Black Car* 02 Camaro Brakes front and rear. Pole Position upper front A-Arms. GW lower rear links All the chassis, body braces Poly Body Bushings A/C delete Cotton F/M Direct reading MAP Razor's Alky BF Goodrich, KDWS, 274/40x17 front, 285/40x17 rear. The ecm has been rewired internally so that I can run my own code. It's an honest 3 Bar MAP system, extremely high resolution, typically 2x the granularity of any aftermarket. 90 Buick Quick Start Ignition 3 ACCEL 300 ignition boxes, (one per coil) Cut and rerolled rear fender openings. Mini-tubbed It's really just a test mule for me to play with some ideas I have, just a fun ride. Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: LR2.jpg Views: 162 Size: 167.0 KB ID: 9004 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Last edited by Bruce : 07-26-2005 at 01:34 PM. #3 Report Post Old 07-26-2005, 01:33 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by DCEPTCN Those wheels help give it a really sinister look. Thanks for noticing. Wait till you see the final combo. These were just a mock up to get the proportions/ offsets, right. Oh, and I have another lil trick for the front end.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 07-26-2005, 02:20 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by MR Buick Nice ride Bruce,Are your GNX louvers functional?Inquiring minds want to know. While I don't have the GNX inner pieces, according to some wool tuffs, they do allow air to excape. So, yes. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 07-26-2005, 02:22 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by DARRELLTHOMAS The black wheels do make it look damn good When I forst got it, I bought some Bassett Wheels for it, and just really liked the look, they have a red double pinstripe on the outer edge that's even a little catchier, IMO. The next wheels are going to be some *old school* wheels, with black powdercoating. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 07-26-2005, 03:23 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Antagon Can we get more pics? Maybe pick up some black taillight covers? I had Blackouts for a while. Then I went I took the tail lights apart and repainted the reflectors black. Then...... I saw the car for the first time, form a distance, driving away... So I took the lights back part, and repainted the reflectors with chrome paint. With the Camaro brakes, **I want everyone to know when I'm stopping**. It's one consession that I don't like to make, but I don't want to get rearended. It's supposed to cool off tomorrow, and I'll try to snap a few more good host of her. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 03-31-2006, 06:24 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by jdpolzin I love the stance and the fact that you have front and rear discs!. You said that you mini tubbed the car, how hard was that? Did you do that just to fit wider tires? What did it take to do the rear disc conversion? Did it move the wheels out at all? With the mini tub, are you running a narrower rear end? Your suspension and brake set-up is pretty much exactly what I am planning to do here in the near future, if you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain a little. How much lower is the car front and rear? What suspension components are you using? Thanks for the info! -----Jeremy The tubs weren't very hard to do, just time consuming. The hardest part was widening the inner fenders, and lining up the trunk hinges. Here's some pics: http://home.woh.rr.com/brucesgn/minitubs I had them done, as a matter of while we were in there doing the coil overs it just seemed like a good time to do everything. I have lots of room, to add more tire. The rear discs moved the tires out like a .25". They're the stock 02 Camaro's. In the library forum, there's a bunch of threads about the disc conversions. The front is PolePosition double adjustible upper A-Arms, and QA1 coil overs. The rears are the QA1 coil over conversion. With those 2 setups you can dial in whatever ride height you want. I goofed on the fronts and got the BB set up, which meant trimming 2 coils off the springs... Next is getting some tubular lowers with a lowered spring perch, so that I can run the stock lenght springs. Previously, I had the 1LE, 3rd Gen F-Body front springs with a loop cut off, and Bilsteins which was nice, but not adjustible. You'll want to cut and install the springs a little at a time thou, each car is a little different on how much spring you'll want to cut off. Reply With Quote Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by ATTI2D So, they just notched the frame?...or did they actually put in new tubs? The inner fenders have been moved in about 2" so yes, it's tubbed. Reply With Quote ------------------------------------ Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 03-28-2006, 05:13 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by nathanstaaz What does a wide band 02 sensor do as opposed to a normal one. And what is the point of having a wide band 02 The point is being to best guess what the actual AFR is. With a stock sensor, it's termed as being a switching sensor, ie either rich or lean. The WB's have a rather linear output, so you can approximate what the actual AFR is. A WB is not exact....... One needs to remember that. It just reads O2 content of the exhaust gases. Too much timing can give you a slightly false lean, and a slightly retarded timing can give a slightly false rich. A blown headgasket, can skew the results, there quite a few possible errors. BUT, IT'S a million times better then nothing to get close and to LOG what's going on. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 03-28-2006, 07:41 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by kshrek So Bruce; would you consider this an almost mandatory upgrade for moderately modified car? (alky, larger turbo, etc)? It's one of several tools needed for tuning any car, ie even a stocker. You **need** a spark plug magnifing glass, an EGT guage, a WB, and some form of data logging to properly tune any car. The faster the car, only increases the damage done, by not using them, or not knowing how to use them properly. Tuning is an art form (IMO), there are so many shades of tuning that one must master to be really good at it. Plug reading, and undertanding the relationships of EGTs, WB reading to it, are what win on race day, give the longest engine life, best gas mileage, etc, etc.. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 03-30-2006, 03:57 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Stoich for gasoline is 14.5:1 or something like that. What is stoich for Alky? *Most* are in the neighborhood of 7.5:1.... I saw a URL about this, but just can't find it off hand. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 03-30-2006, 03:58 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by nathanstaaz Everyone keeps yacking about the F.A.S.T. systems and how good they are, what is the huge ass advantage with running one of those setups and what do they cost roughly They're designed to be user friendly.... The trouble is they're very simplistic to get that way. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 03-30-2006, 04:31 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by krom If you are going to race under 12 seconds it can help you get there easier and safer, unless your chip burner can take data from some type of recording device and burn you a chip on the spot. Seems like your ignoring the learning curve. I've seen lots of guys go right past *best performance* since it's so easy to just punch in numbers. Tuning is about being systematic, logic, and understanding what the data logs, and plugs are telling you. MAP based systems seem to be more intuitive, but, that's about it, IMO. Using something similiar to the latest GMs is going to be alot more popular as time, and customers want better and better drivibility. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 04-01-2006, 08:02 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by kshrek Bruce I apologize in advance for the ignorance displayed in this question, but other than tps and iac, what tuning adjustments can you really make on these cars, especially if you are using the oe electronics?? Fuel Pressure. If you're still using the stock MAF, then your best answer is updating to a Translator Plus, or the MAFPro, if you're racing then the ME series of stuff is another alternative. That way you'll have some control over the timing, and fuel. Or at a min, having a data log, and sending that to your ship guy should help matters. If you gotta guestion, just ask, there's no need to apologize. Reply With Quote ------------------------------ Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 04-02-2006, 06:54 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Doing the right thing, has it's penalities for some.... It's sad that so many Americans, are so willing to take what they have for granted and not understand what being a member of the human race means. It's always easy to do nothing and let evil triumph, but there comes a time, when men must act. It's amazing that so many are so willing to ignore all the elements of what lead us to war, in order to be *right* about one or two issues. I don't recall seeing 8 more moving pictures then that in a long time. Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 04-03-2006, 11:24 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJTURBO We need to just level that Hell-hole and come home and let them figure it out That kills to me to see fellow Americans Black, White, Pink, Purple shipped home in a body bag That doesn't work, history has proven that. Someone has to step to the plate, and allow democracy or allow for deposing of tyrants. Not to mention all the problems there were that lead to the war. If we're (speaking of humanity in general) aren't going to back up organizations such as the UN, then we might as well not bother trying any tactics other then just going to war whenever *we* think it's necessary. Thou, with as corrupt as the UN and some of the members are, one has to wonder about how long it will last, before it caves in on itself. I perfer to remember them as having done the right thing, and that eases the pain of seeing the caskets. I can't understand how Cindy and those like her, take to disrespecting the dead. Her son made the choice to be a man, and fight the good fight, and her belittling statements about him, are just beyond my comprehension. I can understand a parents grief, but what she's doing, IMO, isn't about grief. Not to mention the sorry SoS that show up at funerals to trash talk the dead. ------------------------------------ Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 02-09-2006, 03:53 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Mad_trbo Anyone give me any feedback on there experiences with this set up? I replaced the bushings with Energy Suspension both upper and lower. Ride height is approximately 26 inches from the ground to the fender well and it rides like crap in my opinion. Any advice or suggestions.... Mine's in the shop tonight getting a set installed... For the moment I can't answer all your questions. But, measuring from ground to fender lip doesn't allow for different tire diameters, so it's about meaningless, a better measurement is from the center of the spindle to the lip. Mine's at 13.5", and I'm shooting for 13 even. Did you get the SB or BB version?. In the library, one of the guys has done it, using the BB version, and said he had to cut 1.5 loops off the spring to get the ride height correct. If the bushings are installed too tight, then they can cause the suspension to bind up, and play heck with trying to set things. IMO, any poly bushing should be loose enough that the arm, drops from it's own weight, during preassembly. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 02-10-2006, 05:10 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Done..... In the end it took cutting off 2.25 turns of the coil, and bolting the shock to the bottom of the arm.... I'm going to make a doubler plate, and weld that to the bottom of the arm, or just go ahead, and get some tubular lower A-Arms, and have the shock pad relocated. FWIW, and I'm going to start a thread in the library about springs, etc. The 3rd Gen 1LE front springs with a loop cut off dropped the car, so that the measurement from the fender lip to front axle is 13.5". My QA1 setup is now at the same 13.5. Installing the QA1 BB springs raised the car to a height of 16". One loop off dropped the car to 14.5. While it will vary slightly car to car, these numbers should be used as an indicator, not an absolute. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 02-14-2006, 04:38 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Slow91z The last person I saw talking about drop spindles said that it helped bump steer, but I'm no expert in that area. Only since it changes the roll center height. IMO, not enough to actually detect when driving. Raising the spring rate, via going to shorter springs, *lessens* the suspension movement, and in that reguard, helps min the bump steer. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 03-30-2006, 12:31 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TourT Bruce, Did you go with the BB springs? If so, now after you have used and installed this would you still have gone with the BB or use the SB system instead? I goofed and used the BB springs...... Had to cut 2+ turns off of them to get the ride height close. Which drove the spring rate way up. I'm going to get some SB springs, and tubular lower arms, with the pockets moved an inch or so down. To drop the nose alot more before having to cut the springs at all. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 04-03-2006, 04:41 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Noob and more street/handling-oriented coil-overs, http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku I was planning on getting a set for my car, but it doesn't sound like everyone's having a great experience with them. I figured coil-overs would solve problems, not create them. My goal is a corner carver. The street ones. Ya, that's what I was hoping for...... ---------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 04-06-2006, 08:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Drugs...... Author UNK > while Sugar and or Caffeine sure maybe *the* first gateway, it has been > the results of my own unscientific polling that showed damn near > everyone that started out with pot and moved to a 'harder' drug, moved > to pot within 1 year of using buttered popcorn. so to me, buttered > popcorn must be the gateway drug to pot... we get rid of buttered > popcorn, pot should follow disappearing within the year...then opiates > within 2 years, by this logic of ours... Many countries in the world have NO buttered popcorn, but those countries still have crime. Why? Well... -- More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread users. -- Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests. -- More than 90 percent of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread. -- Bread is made from a substance called "dough." It has been proven that as little as one pound of dough can be used to suffocate a mouse. The average American eats more bread than that in one month! -- Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water to eat begged for bread after as little as two days. -- Bread is often a "gateway" food item, leading the user to "harder" items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter, and even cold cuts. -- Newborn babies can choke on bread. -- Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute. -- Most American bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling and many have even been known to vote Democratic. -- Bread has been the catalyst for political upheaval and dietary disaster worldwide, the militant "Whole Grain Cult", for instance. -- After Jesus broke bread with his disciples the resulting betrayal changed world history forever. (Incorrect fundamentalist thinking blames it on the wine.) Ban this lethal stuff NOW! --------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 04-06-2006, 05:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by mikes87gn Got up to 152mph, 25 psi boost (with alky), o2 at 768. On 009's?....... IMO, your flirting with disaster, er, did, and lost. If you're going to be running the car that hard, IMO, you really need to be monitoring EGTs, and AFRs (with a WB). It'll be interesting to see how long your patch holds. From the looks of the pics, the damage involved the area where the fire band touchs the block, and that's where all the compression sealing is. While it's somewhat fun to push the envelope, IMO, 60/65 PPH injectors would better serve you. Reply With Quote --------------------------- Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 04-05-2006, 10:56 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Ignition based automotive engines, use a spark, to cascade an event already in progress. Let the compress increase, enough, and the reaction will occur on it's own without a spark, THAT's what a diesel engine does. It's common place to see diesels with 14:1CR in Turbo applications, and 16:1 in N/A applications. They have to have the added compression, to get the reaction to occur... *You* can run lots of compression, in Turbo applications, but you have to back the timing out, and still add a bunch of fuel to help with in-cylinder cooling. The lack of timing, seriously cuts down on the power an engine can make. ie in theory you could have too idnetical engines, one with 24 PSI an a limited amount of timing, being outrun by an engine running say 18 PSI, with more timing. The chamber and cooling system design of the TR engines, isn't all that bad. For it's intended application, having the headgasket acting as a fuse for an engine that's warrantible, isn't that bad of idea. It's only a problem as you ratch up the HP, way beyond what the designers were looking to do. ------------------------------ Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 04-02-2006, 06:38 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 87GN WTF is the deal with all these gangs of young punk ass kids. It in part parents not having a clue about parenting. *Discipline*, *Respect*, aren't even in people's vocabulary now a days. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 04-03-2006, 08:01 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJTURBO This is a major problem and unless the Liberals get off the cops ass with law-suites and let them do there job so the Police can start kicking the shit out of kids, I see no change. It's not just liberals, there are allot of cowards in political positions, that are just afraid to upset anyone, so they don't do anything. One of America's problems is that as time passes there are fewer and fewer ex-military guys running for office. What most people ignore is that an ex-military guy, has some clues about respect, devotion, thinking in the long term, and have demonstrated the desire to actually do something other then whine about making the world a better place. Look at the US's position nowadays, instead of taking the lead, we now go around looking (begging, or bribing with foreign aid) to join us in just doing the *right* things. The trend is only going to get worse, unless people really start thinking about who they vote for, and DEMANDING the major parties start finding candidates that are honest, and demonstrated track record of doing the right thing, rather then what's popular. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 04-05-2006, 10:36 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GN455 Get off your soap box , so if you have not been in the Military you basically are clueless. If the shoe fits wear it. if you'd been in the service, you might have been taught enough map reading to realise Manhattan is part of the United States, and prevent all the embarrassment you've brought on yourself, with you past claim. Yes, there are some experiences that most people will never, or could experience in the civilian world. Only a fool would think they can watch the News or read a book, and think they have experienced, or be able to fully comprehend, what war is like. There are things in life, that words just can't fully convey. It's laughable how you post so many hate filled postings, and then you whine about others being on a soapbox. Think about it.... Reply With Quote ---------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 04-05-2006, 05:42 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Stopping the *Surge* Working on the general belief that surging with a F/M, and given turbo, was due to the engine's airflow demands not being *in line* with the rate of which the turbo was willing to acclerate, or deccel, I thought I'd try something...... Enter the *Tornado*. Yes, that little sheet metal, *fan* that fits into the incoming air tract. While I'm leery of some of the claims made for MPG, it did seem like it would help to twist the air into compressor side of the turbo. I've done allot of tuning to min the surge my car had, but it did still exist. I'm running a stock short block, with a 206/206 cam, 60 PPH injectors, TA-62, Cotton F/M with 3" piping. I used the model number 75, which seems to indicate an O.D. of 75mm. It took beveling the tubing's ID, and using a hose clamp to compress it enough to fit into a 3" section of tubing immediately prior to the turbo. It needs to be as close as possible to the compressor wheel as possible. Mine slightly hangs out past the tubing, so as to get as close as possible to the compressor.... With so many variables, it's hard to say what you're results may be, but in my case, there's no signs of any surging now.... Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 04-06-2006, 07:52 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Fuelie600 Sure hope the "Tornado" holds together. Good luck! Time will tell, it looks to be rather robust, ie Stainless, and spotwelded. Being located upstream of an engine, with the potential of breaking apart, and wedging a throttle open, I'd hope they've thought this out... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-06-2006, 03:43 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Oops I forgot to mention. No change in AFRs. No change in EGTs. Now that I've added a tad more fuel on top, boost is up a couple PSI. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 04-06-2006, 05:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by LiV4gnz a blow off valve would noto help tehh surge? Nope. Surge is an area just below the sweet spot of the turbo's operating range. Once above or below it, things are fine. A blow off valve is only useful at the high end of the turbos output, or when the boost is still high, with the throttle closed. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 04-07-2006, 12:12 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Did a *BUNCH* of datalogs, looking to see what changes there were in the way the turbo spooled up... The one change from the last logs is the new ignition system, and I still haven't gotten the AE perfect. As things stand now, the *worst* case, was a 125 RPM *lag* to get into boost, ie 100 K/Pa, and then a 200 RPM increase, to get to 7 PSI. Looking at several old datalogs, I can find some that show the difference to be min., if at all. IMO, the differences are within testing variances. BUT, there is no surging.... Your results may/will vary...... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 04-10-2006, 07:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Well, if one worked well, then 2 should be better, turned out to be a no-go. No diffference at all. For it to do any good it must be right up by the compressor wheel. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 04-10-2006, 08:40 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboBob have you tried it any other place than the compressor wheel? My guess on the reduction in surge is just from the increased restriction. Yep, but only in the pre-turbo area. But, there's no measurable delay in spooling, and the transition into boost, is quicker (in cruise mode). If it was a restriction, then that should show at WOT, and there's no measurable changes at that level. Reply With Quote ------------------------------ Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 04-07-2006, 07:27 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Before worring about going fast, I'd suggest you learn as much as you can about your car. Get a datalogger, ie Direct Scan. Having dash board info handy, means a Scanmaster. If you want to know what sort of mixture your engine is running then you need a Wide Band O2. Knowing your Exhaust Gas Temps, can say you an engine. THEN once you get the basics down, you can think about being able to run fast. Fuel, a new pump and hot wire kit. TA-60 turbo 60/65 PPH injectors An Alkycontrol kit Reply With Quote ---------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 04-11-2006, 01:05 PM instro84's Avatar instro84 instro84 is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: california Posts: 245 Bruce i need some help Bruce i was looking at you old post on the ls! rears, i foung the brake lines but where did you get the banjo fittings and adapters? TIA dale __________________ 85 T Type, LT1 maf, translator, turbotweak chip, LS1 brakes, Ronal wheels/Nitto drag radials, hotwired 340 pump GNX style dash. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 04-11-2006, 03:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 I bought them at the *local* speed shop. I thought I still had the receipt for all that stuff, but I can't find it. I used some already fab'd AN Brake lines, and then cut, and flared some Bundy tubing for the hard lines. I'll look some more, but things aren't looking good for finding the actual part no.s. Reply With Quote ------------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 04-13-2006, 06:58 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN I can tell you that 1500 lbs of tourque cant be all bad PS Its a JOHNDEERE I wish there was a way to get the Red One I had helped with on a dyno. 466, with 60 PSI, with lots of water.... Just at a gallon in 20 secs.. While tiny compared to allot of tractors, it usually placed in the money, and drove onto the trailer at the end of the night. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ---------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 04-15-2006, 09:24 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Blind Date Joe took his blind date to the carnival. He said, "What would you like to do first, Kim?" "I want to get weighed," she replied. They ambled over to the weight guesser. He guessed 120 pounds. She got on the scale; it read 117 and she won a prize. Next, they went on the Ferris Wheel. When the ride was over, Joe asked again what she wanted to do. "I want to get weighed," she said. They went back to the weight guesser and having been there before, he correctly guessed her weight and Joe lost his dollar. Joe asked where to next and Kim said, "I want to get weighed." Joe figured she must be weird so he took her home early and dropped her off with a handshake at the door. Kim's roommate Laura asked about the date. "How'd it go?" Kim said, "Oh Waura, it was wousy!" Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ----------------------------------- #2 Report Post Old 04-15-2006, 09:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Quiky One Anyone know of any classy looking rocker switches? I need some and can't seem to find any that look good and not cheap. Unless your just controlling relays, I'd suggest passing on them. I've never had one tolerate any high amperage loads... Goggling for Avionics, military surplus, etc., might get you a lead on them. Newark Electronics is also a good source for electrical stuff. ----------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 04-17-2006, 05:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Blown headgaskets and AL Heads http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12225 Last edited by Bruce : 04-17-2006 at 06:44 PM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-17-2006, 06:45 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Works fine for me.... Just ignore that edit comment.... Reply With Quote ---------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 04-14-2006, 01:32 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by slowGN hello what speed do you all suggest to lock the torque converter at. I have it set at 85 right now. Thanks Assuming you mean at WOT: Depends on the application. I have mine set for 115, but I'm not interested in just drag racing. ----------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-18-2006, 08:49 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GinoRin Of course I am running the stock ECM, but I also have one modded for low-z injectors. What's the best streetable injector for this combo? I'm also running a single hotwired walbro GS340, but that may change soon too, who knows. This isnt a drag car, its more of a pro touring breed... The 60/65s would get my vote, if you were to add an alkycontrol unit. That way you can turn the *kill mode* on and off, and still have all the fun you can handle on the street. Figure on getting another pump, while some have run fast on a single, for me, I had to convert to a double pumper to have enough fuel for a sustained run. There's a difference between 11 secs, and a Pro Tourer at high throttle openings for a few minutes. Reply With Quote -------------------------- Old 04-16-2006, 04:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 The only way I do anything cam wise anymore, is if I go to Hydralic Rollers.... IMO, a pocket port and 206/206 is a nice combo.. I've run the stock turbo, a 61, and 62 with them and been happy. But that's just me. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 01-21-2006, 04:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by gnxtc2 Hey Travis you asked for them, here they are: GN Billy T. gnxtc2@aol.com The gold on the compressor housing, is outstanding.... Who's valve covers are those?. Nice ride. Reply With Quote -------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-20-2006, 08:08 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GinoRin I was at the speed shop yesterday ordering up the rest of my autometer gauges in their 2006 catalog, and saw they now have an AFR gauge that uses a bosch wideband 02 sensor! I don't have the part number with me, but I will go back and get it today. The kit was fairly priced if I remember right, something like $380 or $400. Has anyone used these? Or is there a more accurate, precise wideband tuning tool out there? I'm running a stock ecm right now, otherwise I know about the options with aftermarket computers. NTK (the parent co. of NGK) has just released a WB LED Display, and it's $295. The Innovative WB has been almost the standard by which to judge all others, at $350, and it has lots of options you can add, and does datalogging... Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 04-14-2006, 03:46 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by dennisL What pushed me to dig into the IAC stuff was mainly that it is the least understood and least documented portion of the stored program. It turns out that 1278 bytes of code are used for idle control, which is 16% of the ROM. For the 87 T-Regal none of the IAC program is in EPROM. The idle program uses 108 bytes of data items which is only 5.5% of all data bytes but still, I kept wondering what this stuff did. OK, so I figured all this stuff out but before I publish it, does anyone care? You might find this handy, it's from the DIY-EFI site. While the 747 ecm is TBI, the terms, and definitions are the same. 747 ECM IAC Control Robert Rauscher 10/14/2000, updated 12/4/00 Copyright 2000, Robert Rauscher, All Rights Reserved. This is specific to the 747 ecm. However, the methods and madness applies to many of the GM ecm's. (Use at your own risk, no guarantee that any of this is correct.) Note: Values such as 0x22D are eprom table addresses. These you can easily change. Values such as L0004 are RAM variables. These are used by the ecm during it's processing. INTRO: IAC is the abbreviation for 'idle air control'. This is a little misleading, as many external factors affect how the IAC reacts. Along with controlling the idle speed, the IAC is in use while cruising and accelerating. It is used in the anti-stall process and the DFCO process. As part of the fueling routines, additional fuel is added whenever the IAC is retracted. Not all IAC control parameters are covered here. WHAT THE IAC IS: The IAC itself is an electro-mechanical device. It is a linear stepper motor with a cone-shaped pintle attached to the end of the control rod. This pintle is moved into and out of an orifice that bleeds air around the throttle blades. This orifice is generally about 5/16 of an inch in diameter. The IAC position and control are measured in steps. One step moves the pintle a small amount. The full range is typically from zero steps to two-hundred steps. Zero steps are when the pintle is fully extended, closing off all IAC bleed air flow. As the steps are increased, the pintle is retracted from the orifice, allowing more air to bypass the throttle blades. This has the effect of increasing the engine speed. Remember that an IAC retract (or an increase in steps), opens the air passage to raise the engine speed. BASIC OPERATION: With the engine off, the IAC will be at the park position. This is the position used upon cranking the engine. Once the engine starts, the ecm will start to move the IAC to another position. This position is from a table lookup of steps vs. coolant and a baro correction. However, the IAC does not move to the new position immediately. If it did, the engine would react suddenly, possibly stalling. The difference between the original park steps, and the newly desired steps vs. coolant, are lag filtered. These filters control the rate at which the IAC moves. Once the IAC has moved to it's new position, the idle logic starts to act. The goal here is to attain, then maintain, the desired idle rpm. Is does not matter whether the engine is in closed loop or open loop, the idle logic takes over. A key here is: As long as the current idle speed touches the desired idle rpm plus the idle error term, within the time delay, no change to the idle speed will take place. If the idle goes outside of the limits, the IAC will be moved to compensate. Now that the engine is idling, sooner or later the driver will hit the gas. Now the throttle follower logic kicks in. As the tps% increase, so does the IAC steps. Again, this action is lag filtered. As the throttle is then closed, the IAC retracts, lag filtered. Upon the engine being shut off, the IAC goes through a reset process. The IAC is stepped to the reset position, stepped to the zero position, then stepped to the park position. This calibrates the positioning of the IAC, along with leaving it in place for the next cranking to start. There are additional factors that affect the IAC position. If the battery voltage dips, the IAC can increase the idle. The A/C turning on, or decel fuel cutoff (DFCO), can affect the current IAC position. For an idea of how these factors can work, I'll use the A/C turning on as an example. With the engine at IAC controlled idle, and the A/C turning on, additional steps are immediately added to the current IAC position. Another table value also adds to the desired idle rpm. Lets say the desired idle rpm went from 800 rpm, to 850 rpm. The steps that were added, are decayed out. However, the idle logic is also attempting to hold the idle at the newly desired rpm. An astute driving may notice a slight increase in idle, along with a dip in idle, as the new idle speed is attained by the ecm. TABLES and PURPOSES: The following values are the eprom table addresses. 0x293: Additional fuel added during IAC opening. (val = msec * 16.384). Acts like a pump shot (Do not use as one.) 0x5C1: 0x5C2: IAC park position. IAC is immediately moved to this position after engine stop and IAC reset completion. This is the IAC position for engine cranking and start. 0x5C3: Park to run delay. Delay from engine start, to the IAC moving to the run position: IAC vs. coolant. (val = seconds * 40) 0x5C4: Stall saver cut-in rpm (rpm / 12.5). If the engine rpm drops below this value, the IAC is further retracted according to the steps in the stall saver table at: 0x60A, four lines, lookup by baro. This action is immediate and not subject to lag filtering. 0x5C5: Stall saver cut-out rpm (rpm / 12.5). Once above this rpm, the above added steps are decayed out (lag filtered). 0x5C6: %tps for idle threshold. Used in conjunction with a hardcoded 0 mph. These two values define whether the engine is in idle or not. If engien is not considered to be in idle, no idle speed control is attempted. 0x5C7: Time delay for small error IAC retract. (desired idle too low) 0x5C8: Time delay for large error IAC retract. (desired idle too low) 0x5C9: Time delay for small error IAC extend. (desired idle too high) 0x5CA: Time delay for large error IAC extend. (desired idle too high) The past four entries are used to slow-down, or delay, the operation of the IAC at idle. When in closed loop idle, the IAC attempts to maintain the desired idle. The error term is the difference between the desired idle rpm and the current engine rpm. A larger error term has a shorter delay, to move the IAC quicker. Once the idle is close, the delay is longer. This is done for better control of the idle speed. If the engine idle oscillates wildly, seems like the IAC can not 'keep-up', increasing these values (slightly), may correct it. Note that an oscillating idle can also be caused by incorrect VE% and SA tables. 0x5CB: Rpm breakpoint for large error retract (rpm/12.5). 0x5CC: Rpm breakpoint for large error extend (rpm/12.5). These past two entries are the rpm breakpoints for the previous four IAC error time delays. 0x5CD: Idle deadband (rpm/12.5). Amount of idle variance allowed within the time delay (0x5C7 - 0x5CA). More than this amount will cause the IAC to respond, affecting the current idle speed. 0x5CE: IAC reset steps. Upon engine stop, the IAC is retracted to this position, moved to zero steps, then parked at park steps (0x5C2). 0x5CF: Additional startup steps when A/C on. 0x5D0: Minimum IAC differential steps with A/C on. (?) 0x5D1: Maximum IAC differential steps with A/C on. (?) 0x5D2: IAC shutdown voltage (Volts * 10). If vehicle voltage drops below this value, the IAC is no longer stepped. 0x5D3 & 0x5D4: DFCO steps. Number of steps to add to IAC whenever DFCO is in effect. Will not be decayed out until DFCO is no longer in effect. This status is from the fuel routines. Uses decay filter coeficient @ 0x5EA. Note that this is a double byte value. The actual steps are in 0x5D3, with a fractional amount in 0x5D4. So set 0x5D4 to 0. 0x5D6: Added steps for A/C on. These steps are immediately added upon the A/C being switched on. They are decayed out, with the idle control logic maintaining the desired idle. 0x5D7: Kickdown delay timer value (seconds). 0x5D8: Kickdown steps. These two together form a post-startup rpm reduction. The kickdown delay timer starts right after startup. Once the timer has expired, the IAC is extended by the amount of kickdown steps. A nuance: The kickdown steps must be less than the steps used in the IAC position vs. coolant table value (0x5F5): Otherwise kickup will occur. The kickdown steps are subtracted from the IAC position steps, and are added to a term that is decayed out. 0x5D9: IAC steps subtracted from current idle position when placed into gear (auto). 0x5DA: Additional idle speed, added to desired idle rpm when A/C on. (rpm / 12.5). 0x5DB: Idle rpm for closed loop aldl diag mode (rpm / 12.5). Used for troubleshooting. 0x5DC: IAC retract steps for vehicle voltage drop. 0x5DD: Vehicle voltage drop required (Volts * 10). Whenever the vehicle voltage drops by the value in 0x5DD, the IAC is retracted by the steps listed in 0x5DC. This is intended to bump up the idle to maintain alternator output. As long as the vehicle voltage drop IAC bump is in effect, the IAC steps will not be decayed out. 0x5DE: Maximum IAC steps. This is the maximum retract steps allowed. (Except for engine stop reset). 0x5E4: Low VSS filter coefficient. 0x5E5: Medium VSS filter coefficient. 0x5E6: High VSS filter coefficient. These filter coefficients are used to slow the throttle follower action of the IAC. When IAC position calculations are made, it is not advisable to immediately move the IAC to that position. Instead, the action is lag filtered to control the speed of the IAC action. There is one of three filter coefficients used depending upon the vehicle speed. A higher value has less filter action, increasing the IAC speed. 0x5E7: IAC extend delay, low vss (seconds / 5). 0x5E8: IAC extend delay, high vss (seconds / 5). Delays IAC extend after an IAC retract command. Can cause a 'rpm hang' after a throttle blip or throttle lift. 0x5E9: Decay filter coefficient. Used when DFCO not active. 0x5EA: Decay filter coefficient. Used when DFCO is active. These filters are used to decay out IAC step increases due to items such as the battery volt drop, DCFO, hot restart retracts, and kickdown. 0x5EB: Fast decay filter coefficient. This filter is used to decay out the stall saver step increases. 0x5EC: Low VSS threshold (mph * 3.2). 0x5ED: High VSS threshold (mph * 3.2). These are the VSS thresholds used to define which filter coefficient to use. Selected from the values at 0x5E4 - 0x5E6, depending upon VSS. 0x5EE: Minimum IAC throttle follower steps when above Low VSS. Whenever the vehicle speed is above the mph defined at 0x5EC, the IAC TF will not step lower than this value. 0x5EF: Minimum TPS% required for throttle follower IAC steps. 0x5F0: Percent of throttle follower in park/neutral (for auto only). 0x5F1: Percent of throttle follower not in park/neutral (also manual). 0x5F2: Maximum throttle follower in steps. As the throttle opens, the IAC is retracted. As the throttle closes, the IAC will extend. The speed at which the IAC extends following the throttle is controlled by the filter coefficients at locations: 0x5E4 - 0x5E6, dependent upon the VSS. The throttle follower value along with the filter coefficients affect how the engine returns to idle after the throttle is closed. This includes both a return to idle on a throttle blip, along with affecting ease of shifting (manual tranny). Note that the throttle follower IAC retract steps are not filtered. The IAC opens as quickly as the throttle in opened. 0x5F3: A coolant temperature value for a cold kick down enable? Used to enable the use of the values @ 0x5E1, 0x5E2 & 0x5E3. 0x5F4: N-bias. The first time this speed is exceeded, the current IAC count in L00CC is added to L00CB. I am not sure of the intention of this. 0x5F5: IAC position vs coolant temperature (in steps). Seventeen line table versus coolant. From hot ( > 136C), to cold ( < -8.5c). After the engine starts, the IAC is decayed from the park position to this position, with adjustments. These adjustments can include: A/C on, baro, low battery. I have found that it is better to set the IAC position vs. coolant values a little on the low side. This allows the rpm to drop below the desired idle speed, to then be 'caught'. Otherwise, it seems as though the idle never drops down to where it should be. 0x606: IAC position vs baro at reset (in steps). 4 line table, added to the IAC position vs. coolant lookup. Do not set this table too low, it appears to have something to do with how much idle adjustment can be made. 0x60A: Stall saver IAC increase vs baro (in steps). 4 line table. Whenever the idle drops below the stall-saver speed (0x5C4), the IAC is immediately retracted by this table value. Once the rpm rises above the stall-saver cutout speed (0x5C5), the added steps are decayed out. The stall saver decay filter coeficient is at: 0x5EB. 0x60E: Desired idle rpm versus the coolant temperature. Nine line table, from 55c to 135c inclusive, in 10c intervals. Value is rpm / 12.5. This is the end goal, the rpm at which the engine should idle. I have found that the table range is a bit on the high temperature side. When running cold aluminum manifolds, there may be little difference in the desired idle speed between 55c and 65c coolant. MECHANICAL EFFECTS: (I want to thank Bruce Plecan for discovering and documenting this gem). With a TBI system, the IAC steps at idle can be crucial. Again, I am referring to the hot'r street type engines. A rumpity-rump engine needs all the help it can get to idle. One area to be addressed is that of the throttle blade setting. A typical TBI system will idle with an IAC count of 35 to 45. On a cam'd engine, zero steps may be better. Myself, I shoot for three to five steps with a warm engine, and no A/C. The reason for this has to do with the injectors residing above the throttle plates. During idle, the TBI injectors are designed to spray onto the bore walls. When this happens, the fuel runs down the walls, and past the throttle blades. The air speed past the throttle blades is very high. This action shears the fuel into vapor that is then able to travel to the chambers. If the engine idles with a high IAC count, this IAC air is bypassing the throttle blades, hindering the flow of fuel into the plenum. By opening the throttle blades and reducing the IAC counts, there is a greater volume of air drawing fuel past the throttle blades. Next time you are timing the engine, shine that light into the TBI bores, and look. Then, knock out that throttle blade adjustment plug, and turn it in. Just keep an eye on the IAC count, you do not want to try to get it below zero. This is the reason I set the idle to have at least a couple of counts. TIPS: When turning in the TBI idle screw with the engine running: Once the throttle opens past the TPS% value at: 0x5C6, the IAC will stop controlling the idle speed. An engine stop, wait ten seconds, and an engine restart will reset this value. It is best to turn in the idle screw, then start the engine. It is now possible to turn the screw out to set the minimum IAC counts. To reduce flair-up on engine start: Lower the park position @ 0x5C2. Lower the park to run delay @ 0x5C3. Lower the kickdown time delay @ 0x5D7. Lower the coolant vs. position values @ 0x5F5. To quicken the return to idle after throttle blip: Set delay @ 0x5E7 to 0. Increase filter coefficient at 0x5E4. Reduce throttle follower percentage @ 0x5F0 & 0x5F1. When idle speed has been raised (cam'd engines), also raise the stall saver speeds. An oscillating idle can be caused by: Incorrect VE% table (flatten idle area). Incorrect SA table (flatten idle area). Too fast IAC reaction, increase (slightly) the delay values at 0x5D7 through 0x5DA. Stall saver set too high (it's kicking in). Battery voltage varying. To make manual transmission shifting easier and smoother: Set the throttle follower filter coeficient parameters so that the engine rpm drop between gears matches the rpm required for the next gear. A large amount of throttle follower: Can help top end power as it will allow more airflow. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Random Notes: Loaded into L00C2 only if greater than current value in L00C2: 0x5D3: DFCO steps 0x5D8: Kickdown steps 0x5DC: Battery voltage drop 0x303: Hot bias steps if kickdown already occured. 0x303: Hot bias steps. If kickdown has not yet occurred, this value is added to whatever is in L00C2. Note: L00C2 will not be decayed out if any stall saver is active. Or, throttle follower steps are active?, (in L00C6). The following are added together and stored in L00CB: Lessor of L00E4 or L00C1 L00CE: Position vs. coolant L00C2: (see above) L00C4: stall saver L00C6: throttle follower L00CD: ? 0x5D6: A/C adjust steps 0x5D9: In park/neutral. Subtracted from L00CB. After startup, idle control starts with L00CE being adjusted for proper idle speed. L00CC gets incr's as L00CE decr's, and vica-versa. L00E4 can also be increased to rasie the idle speed. Vehicle has not yet moved. **Once N-bias mph has been reached, the value in L00CC is added to L00CB. L00CC is then set to zero. This can cause the engine speed to increase. The idle control logic will not lower the engine speed whenever: The vehicle speed is > 0 mph (hardcoded @ 0xF372), -or- The tps% is greater than the value at: 0x5C6 (* 0.3906) This means that the vehicle must be absolutely still for the idle control logic to reduce engine speed. Else, the steps are held where they are. Of course, the throttle follower and stall saver are still in effect. If the vehicle is moving, and the engine speed drops below the desired idle, L00CD will be increased to increase engine speed. Note that this does not cause a change in L00CC. If L00CD == 0 and L00C6 (throttle follower), > 0, then the idle control will not be in effect. (See F2F9). Unless stall saver is decaying out. -eof- Reply With Quote ------------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 04-16-2006, 04:31 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster Rear: Considering the varishock coilover conversion to replace the kirban springs and bilsteins. I have the QA1 rear coil overs, and really like them.... Yes, mine's set-up more for corner burning then drag racing. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-21-2006, 04:52 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster I went with the fronts to start. I'll do the rears when I get a little more funding. Thanks for the responce Bruce! No problem. Keep us posted on how you do with them. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ------------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 04-21-2006, 07:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster I've read about changing the steering box to the XH box of the f-bodys. I thought that the box on the 87 GN was the same faster ratio but just lacked the stops. Can anyone confirm this? The only difference is the stops, and possibly the effort settings, as far as I know. The GN has the fast steering. If you were to goggle around maybe you could find the difference in turning radius between the F and G body to find out how much of a difference there is in the stops. I looked at all this at one time, and just didn't see any reason to change. You can get your box rebuilt, and have the effort changed if you want, I forget the company that does it, but goggling should turn it up. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Reply ---------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 04-22-2006, 10:12 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Twin charged Cobras Rare pics of one of two original twin supercharged Shelby Cobra's http://www.wurthitdesigns.com/twinpaxton.htm ---------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 04-28-2006, 02:56 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM A woman football team owner fires the whole team http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/5547438 Did she do the right thing It depends on the equipment issue, it doesn't sound like all the related info., is being released, and it's a story that hypes the situation. IMO, they ought to start firing alot more players in the Pro leagues, it's laughable, IMO, how much these guys are getting paid. But as long as the spectators are willing to pay the prices, it'll continue. It's interesting how empty some stadiums are, it seems the cameras avoid showing much of the seating at some games. Reply With Quote ------------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 04-28-2006, 03:00 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Black #8 Caught a moment of the Speed Channel today, and they were showing practice for Talledaga today. Jr was in the Bud car, but it was Black. It was kewl seeing him carry on the *Earnhart Tradition*. He also said they could have a car to lead, or one to pass. They're going with the setup to be able to pass. Might be an interesting race to watch. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 04-28-2006, 03:56 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Not to mention the way he raised his son, JR's stories let you know he taught him how to be a man! There was a great side of Sr. that many didn't know about. I honestly feel like he should go down as the greastest ever. Yeah I know Petty, but Sr. did it the hard way, not lapping folks with a superior car! Petty, Elliot, Waltrip, Grant, Gordon, (to name a few), all have their places, IMO. But, Sr., was always hyped as being Ironhead, or the Intimidator, amongst other names, that weren't fitting, IMO. The man had incredible eye sight, and hand eye coordination, and when he did slip, it was always played like it was ALWAYS intentional. While at times, I'm sure he lost his cool a little, dang, who wouldn't?. I just wish he'd been more appreciated while he was here, is all. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ----------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 04-27-2006, 12:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 350regal What is a 4.1? Is it a bored out 3.8 or what?. Im askind because thats what is in my parts regal and ive been tinkering aroung on it and seems to run pretty good. Ive also herd that these motor have the same crank as the turbo regals?? Whats true and whats the dirt on these motors?? Bigger bore, and siamesed cylinders, meaning no cooling jackets between the cylinders. Which in theory makes for less cylinder wall flexing... Yep, 3.8 turbo crank *should* be in it. Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 04-27-2006, 01:38 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 350regal Well the motors in a 82 regal 2 door. The rocker arms or lifters ticking is the only thing wrong with the motor but it still runs good...Is this normal?? I've never seen a 4.1L in a G-Body, there might be, just I've never seen it. Are you sure it's a 4.1?. How are you Identifying it as being a 4.1?. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 04-27-2006, 01:51 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 350regal The emisions sticker on the fan shroud and its got a 4 barrel carb and intake on it. Now that is interesting... There should only be a min amount of noise from the rockers/ lifters. Reply With Quote Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 350regal Are the rockers adjustable on these cars? Its all new to me im a chevy guy... Nope... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 04-28-2006, 11:36 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by kshrek Buick and I think maybe Pontiac were the only 2 to offer the 4.1 in a G-body (standard engine in the 82 GN), but no they aren't very common. Supposedly the Riviera and Toronado had that engine as well. I've found them also in Caddies, and B-Bodies, but never seen a G-Body with one. Guess ya do learn something new everyday. Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 04-28-2006, 02:48 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Archie If you think about it, the 4.1 came first then the turbo motors, so the turbo motors have a "4.1" crank in them. Thanks, now my head hurts..... LOL ----------------------------- Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-29-2006, 05:10 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by speedy11 I'm thinking about having my car stripped and repainted to show quality. And I would like to add GNX flares and Loovers. Plus a rear spoiler. What do you guys think about the Loover thing? I'm sure I want the flares. The car is a charcole grey Turbo T. I have it FS but I'm having second thoughts. I'm about to say F*** it and pour some money into to her! suspension, Disc brake upgrade, 17" rims and paint for starters. Its only money right?:haha: First off, keep it...... If you're going to go for it, then IMO go for it and get the louvers. I took all the emblems off mine, and have done the louvers. I have a set of flares, but just haven't gotten around to having them installed (bought them off the board). I've been thinking about a repaint..... But, I've got some body work to do. --------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-27-2006, 12:20 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Using Gas Tank Sealer from a motorcycle shop should work..... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 04-28-2006, 09:00 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by bullet87 I bought a sump from jegs, but every where I take it to get the welding done, they don't want to touch it. Have you tried a Radiator Shop?. Sholdering it on is fine. Other then that, you need to displace all the fumes from the tank, ie, fill it with water. If after that, tehy still act goofy, tell them to fill the tank with Argon, then weld it up. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 04-28-2006, 11:34 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by bullet87 I have not tried a radiator shop yet, I think they are having to most problems with the ripples in the tank. If the place that I have it at now does do it, I will try sodering it on. How good does solder hold? If you want to try itself, first practice on a couple hundred radiator until you get it down. It's almost like doing lead body work, it *looks* easy, but looks can be desieving. Not to mention having a water tank to look for leaks when your done. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-27-2006, 12:12 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJTURBO Stock ported Intakes are deep in the 9's so unless you are looking to go faster imo it is not a must. Which is great if all you're interested in, is WOT. Running the rear cylinders lean, doesn't do the motor any good in the long term. Especially if you're trying to run somewhat lean to get the best MPG possible. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 04-27-2006, 12:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GinoRin I know the stock intake is good deep into the 9s, it was more of a cosmetic thing. I figured by the time I bought an upper plenum(150), billet fuel rails(250), and sold my champion stock intake, i would have just about as much money into the new intake as I do the stock one. thats the only reason why I want to do it! While cosmetic is a good answer, there's are advantages to bigger plenums. Thou, a slight downside, is that it might take changing the AE, and WOT fueling a little. I filled in the lower *air gap* part of my intake, and the resulting increase in plenum area, took an additional 6% fuel to get the AFRs back. Judging by that, in theory I'm 6% more HP.... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 04-27-2006, 07:50 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by John Wilde Interesting, thanks Bruce! Just keep it a secret between us, OK?. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 12:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJTURBO I doubt anyone looking for a Champion Intake is going to the grocery store and looking for MPG. Well, your at least wrong in one account. I've been thinking seriously of running one on my next engine, and I do worry about fuel costs. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 01:00 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GinoRin so does anyone have comments on clearance problems or fitment??? As I recall someone's mentioned that the coil pack gets in the way of the wiper linkage, but I'm just repeating, *a rumor*. Reply With Quote -------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 08:36 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Pablo Does this sound plausible? Yep. The startup smoke is usually valve guides/seals. Beings it takes vacuum to suck the oil in, that means the intakes are drawing in some oil, and burning in the combustion process. So you carboning up the chambers... And that easily can cause detonation/ knock. Maybe time to add an alky kit and see if the cures it.... Nothing like *steam* cleaning the chambers to keep em clean. Might also try some GM Top End Cleaner, as a temporary measure. Or to clean things up before turning the alky on. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 04:23 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Pablo I allready have the alky kit I think it cleans it, it just gets oiled up every time I let it sit and then I get the knock until it gets cleaned again with some heavy throttle and alky. What do you think? Seems like the only solution is to fix the oil burning situation Hmmmmm, about the only thing left other then starting to unbolt things, would be the injectors, and make sure it's just not one with a really poor pattern hosing down a cylinder. A couple doses of Berryman's Injector cleaner should do it, if it's just a matter of a tip being gummed up. In the off case, you might have 2 problems. Other then that, ya, time to start unbolting things. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 05:35 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by gregb78 Hey Bruce, Where could one find this GM Top End Cleaner? TIA Most any GM dealer should have it in stock. From what I've heard it's often used for some of the Tech Service Bulletin *cures*. Reply With Quote ---------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 05:41 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Just think of spending ALLOT for a manual tranny to carry the torque a TR makes. Not to mention slowing the car down. Not to mention having to come up with some effective turbo management for the pause in shifts with a manual. And that (last I checked) no easy way to incorporate a Flywheel, P/P, etc into the BOP pattern. But, anything can be done given enough time and work BTW, yes, it's been done. Primarily for Road Racing, and Drag racing. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 06:15 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim How about going the manual valve body route if you want total control. Or a 4L8E, and a paddle shifter..... That's what I want... Reply With Quote ----------------------------- #3 Report Post Old 04-24-2006, 06:11 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM I have installed front www.gbodyparts.com tubular uppers and Sphon lower control arms with Bear Front brakes. My question what should I torque all these bolts too??? I am sure they should be torqued any suggestions?? Going from memory, I believe it's 75 Ft/lbs. That was from the Poleposition pieces I used. Remember the final torque on the lowers is with the full weight of the car on the suspension. Otherwise you'll preload the suspension. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 04-26-2006, 11:51 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 The only other one, is that when I fit poly bushings, I like to have them **just** snug in the arms, so that the arm can pivot freely. BTW, do the Sphon lowers have suspension stops on them?. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 04-26-2006, 12:49 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Bruce, thanks. I am not sure. Here is a link to them. If you can't tell let me know I will take some close up pics. Soon as I can find my chager I'd seen those, and was hoping they'd added something in the way of stops for the lower arm... Thanks. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 04-29-2006, 06:24 PM Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 05:52 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster I just ordered, well the other day, the spohn lowers for coilovers. How do they look? Do you like them? In the pic there is a tab next to the ball joint is that a spot to mount a stop? If not whats it for? How bad is it to not have a stop? I beleive that's for the sway bar. Depends on the roads, or how hard of wheelies you do.... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 07:25 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM I decided not to go with the coil overs becuase of the limited travel We couldn't get the new springs in yet either, it had to go back for the rear suspesion work. The front springs are a real M/Fer Which do you mean have limited travel?. Ya, I found that out too. When I get some lowers, I'm going to have them relocate the lower shock mounts (QA1s).. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 08:06 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Anyway he told me to go with the stock style spring and QA1's as opposed to the coil over's becuase it would limit the travel I assumed this to mean, because I made it very clear that if we step up so to speak I don't want any freakin wheelie action. That is not my style so the spring set up allows more "travel" before lifting the wheels. That is my take which amounts to sqaut, so what do you think???? I try not to worry him but so bad with ?'s....... Arrgh..... It seems then they're just wrong.... Dang, I guess I'm going to have to put mine up on hoist, and get some string, and see where everything really is. I would have thought they'd have the shock length right, if not, then everythings FUBAR'd. Man, that'll get me going if the shock lenght is wrong...... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 12:57 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster Mark at SC&C who I ordered my stuff through said that there is less travel in both the front and the rear with to coilover set-ups. I went with the varishock instead of the QA1 partly because they have more travel in the same length shock. If I understood him though having a little less travel isn't always bad. With the addition of stiffer springs that arn't variable there is less travel being used anyway, right. Mine will be a street car so maybe SGRIM and I are at opposite ends. Any feedback about the travel deal would be appreciated as its not to late for me to change my order. That's simply not true with at least the rears, with the QA1 rear conversion, the lower perch is adjustable, so you work with the installed shock lenght. It's usually in extension, limiting the travel is a good thing. Since you can then pull the front wheels with less chassis rotation. The BAD thing about bottoming out a shock in compression, is that the sprinng rate goes to infinity. Which will drastically effect the over/ under steer. More then one car has crashed due to that instanteous change in handling. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 01:42 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster Maybe I misunderstood. Not to mention that even the pros get tongue tied on terminology at times. ie Bottoming out a shock is the opposite of Topping out a shock, but even shock guys can get sloppy about the terms they use. Reply With Quote ----------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-01-2006, 06:24 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster Has anyone come up with a way to make a bracket to move the blazer caliper out further to use it on a larger rotor? Or does anyone know where to get or how to make the bracket to accept the C5 or equivlent caliper and rotor? I read that there is an Autocad drawing of the bracket but all my searching has turned up nothing. There doesn't seem to be a commercial setup anywhere either. Any ideas or thoughts? TIA Rick There are some links mentioned in the Library about doing the brake conversions. -------------------------------- #7 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 05:25 AM TurboBuickSix's Avatar TurboBuickSix TurboBuickSix is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Buffalo,NY Posts: 36 I work with some Bikers,one is in a gang and he is actually the coolest of the bunch.There is one wanna be though that thinks his Harley is faster than any car so I mentioned a little race and he shot back with "If I get ahead of you watch out for a handfull of washers coming your way".I said"If washers come my way,that is when my front bumper kisses your back tire and they will be washing your ass off the road". Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 05:31 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboBuickSix There is one wanna be though that thinks his Harley is faster. Any wannabe, is just a fool.... You are, or you're not, anything else is just playing kids games. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 04-25-2006, 12:52 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo_underpressure I looking for a good Engine builder in Ohio other than Weber(too pricey) basic stock rebuild with some caps any suggestions. Ohio George (Montgomery) Huber Heights. ------------------------------ #4 Report Post Old 05-01-2006, 09:00 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN we just hired a new CEO and ALL hiring, vacations, firings etc are on hold. Don't know if I can make BG or not, the new CEO has said all decisions are on hold until the end of the week Just found out today that this was the case 50/50 Doesn't anyone there have any common sense?. Don't they understand what employee morale is?. I hope they come to their senses...... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 04:39 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Corperate world Bruce, I AGREE 100%, but you know how multi-million dollar companies are run I am sure I will be able to go as I am upper management but you never know Looks like you just need to explain to them how important you really are, and you need to be kept happy. It's amazing how many upper management types need to be told that from time to time. Gotta present it in the right light, but it's worked well for me in the past. It's like when they offer you a new title, tell'em that's nice, but what difference is there in the pay scale?. Reply With Quote -------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 09:26 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Still a Ford Ya, well, a TR is still a Buick...... I wouldn't mind winding up with it.. Played tag with a Red one that was on an open tilt bed coming back from Janis's... I was in my truck with the GN on the trailer, and with the hills and traffic just wound up pacing him. Gads, some people were about falling out of their cars trying to get a closer look at it. Finally, wound up getting fuel to get out of the rolling traffic snarl. Yes, it was RED..... Reply With Quote -------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:19 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Fill 'er up The carrier, Reagan, carries 3 million gallons of aviation fuel..... Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:24 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Shit I thought you meant my Crown and Water glass :add_wegbr Hellva glass ya got there..... Musta been left over from some spring break outing... Reply With Quote Old 05-02-2006, 08:31 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Or this coming BG outing K, dat mkes snse....... Reeel grogie nw Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:40 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper and I thought it took forever to fill my 30 gallon tank up on my truck! Ya, not to mention changing reactor fuel. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 05:14 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 *The Boss* The boss complained in a staff meeting that he didn't get any respect. The next morning he taped a small sign to his door that read, "I'm The Boss." When he returned from lunch, he found that someone had stuck a Post-It on his new sign: "Your wife called. She wants her sign back!" Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 05:57 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by V6RACER You know what BOSS spells backward? I'm afraid to ask..... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 06:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper SSOB? Bruce, its not to hard to figure out.......... It's the double *S*, that had me...... LOL Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 07:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper stupid democrat..................... Yo talkin to me?. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 07:34 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper if the shoe its you dumb Lib..... Ah, so you're not talkin to me.... Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 07:40 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper man that was fun! :haha: Your EZ....... LOL Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 07:49 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper are you calling me a whore? if the shoe its you dumb Lib..... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper :owned: guess you are a card carrying bleeding heart Lib, and i am a card carrying post whore man that was fun! :haha: Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:21 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN and you were blaming me you little b itch:up_yours: Was gonna be you or Bush..... LMAO Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Excellant comeback:anbet: Jus needa fw of em hivas's..... Feln groge,,,, Reply With Quote ---------------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 09:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Lunch If you're driving by, stop on in, doing Brats, *my way*. Pan fried, then smothered in tomato sause, salsa, fresh onion *chips*, pepper *chips*. *Chips*, not pulverized shredded lil pieces, but large enough you know what you just bite into. The intial sampling is grande, so get on over here Oh, sketties, rice, or onna bun, pick your poison. guantites limited to what's on hand...... Yehaaa. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 10:21 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Ill be there in say 10 hours or so For you, I'll have a Brat and some sause. Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 06:56 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Thanks buddy:D How about a double crown and water too Crown or Chivas, no problemo... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Damn, **going to call for taxi as we speak** Your just know callin?. Im on problly my 3-4th, Chivas..... Dunt wory plnty of food let. Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN I am on my 4th 4oz crown and water, didnt want to run ya dry Kep a welll stockd br heere. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:22 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Me too, Nice spelling buddy, go mix another LOL K, buut thins r getn fggy............... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:26 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Dey ar heeere two You goin to B-----G Planin 2. Reply With Quote #15 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:33 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN KOOL U can bye me some wikey there:add_wegbr :add_wegbr you might wanna cash in your 401k though cause I am like liquid grain storage :beer: Wnt thrw tat yars a go.. Dat n te rel stt holdens...... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 08:38 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN This one got me Bro, you win:add_wegbr WTF did that mean:add_wegbr :add_wegbr That, and the real estate holdings. Gotta kepp ^ Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 03:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Judging by the empty bottles, looks like there was a pretty good party after I crashed... Well, working on another Chivas. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #20 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 07:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 So where is everyone?. Whata bunch of light weights....... I can mix up some Martinis or Margaritas, if that's what it takes.... Reply With Quote ---------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 08:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by m2gn Does anyone know about the boost sensing harness for the turbolink? what exactly does it do and why must you T off the 2 bar map just to add a 3 bar map. why not just do away with the 2 bar and install the 3 bar. i'm new to the GN world and i'm always trying to grow. so any info that you can give will help. thanks:anbet: The one I had, had nothing to do with the original 2 bar. You just left that one alone. The Boost sensing harness, pulls into the TPS, the IAT, and MAP. It then inputs the MAP signal thur the IAT input. The *Tap* into the TPS is to get power, and grounds for the new MAP. Reply With Quote -------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 05:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 guts or balls Subject: I hope this clears up any confusion on the subject. We've all heard about people having guts or balls. But do you really know the difference between them? In an effort to keep you informed, the definition for each is listed below. GUTS - is arriving home late after a night out with the guys, being assaulted by your wife with a broom, and having the guts to ask: "Are you still cleaning, or are you flying somewhere?" BALLS - is coming home late after a night out with the guys, smelling of perfume and beer, lipstick on your collar, slapping your wife on the ass, and having the balls to say: "You're next." Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 07:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN :add_wegbr :add_wegbr :add_wegbr :add_wegbr So where are you?. Had all kinds of ice left over last night.... Working on #2 Chivas, and you're still hiding..... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 08:12 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN I am just starting my 4th 4oz crown and water and you Haaa, me laugh.... I hd to sop and go get sme iz so I'm on #3..... I cath u son.. Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 08:13 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Bryan C. :add_wegbr :add_wegbr :add_wegbr :add_wegbr Wht u laffin at/ Agin, I lafe... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 08:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN u betr hry btch, I am stmbling for #5 Stmblin for #5/ Again, I lafe Gona du a Kron nex 4 2 laf mor Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 08:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN The later it gets I translate your stuff like Chinese secret war material:add_wegbr I lafe mor. Mybe, u ned 2 drnk mor I no ---------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 04:44 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 2QUICK2B6 I think i got shafted on this car. I blew a headgasket took the heads off an this is what i found on another piston, not the piston were the headgasket was blown That can happen, it'll run OK, right up until it cuts into the upper ring groove. Then it loses compression, and there's a real miss. Someone was trying to make too much HP, for what the systems were willing to support. Support includes, not enough injector, a bad injector, too much timing, too little timing, to lean, and the list goes on, and on. I hate seeing that, but Stuff happens...... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 04:46 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJBuickRacer Detonation. Check your rod bearings, I'd bet the upper shells are beat up as well. I'd hope, he'd just go thru the whole motor, with that damage.... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-04-2006, 04:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 2QUICK2B6 the wall was fine no gruves, scuffs ,scrapes or anything. since i have it toredown im goind 20 over with JE pistons and billet caps Boring an engine, unless it needs it just shortens it's useful life. If the bores are honable, I'd be for leaving the bore alone. Caps, sure, why not. Reply With Quote ----------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 02:07 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Air Bag Suspension Has anyone converted to an Air Bag suspension on their TR?. Has anyone riden in a Air Bagged Car, and if so, how was it?. Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-01-2006, 03:12 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SinistrV6 I've ridden in several bagged cars and trucks (but never a TR) and the right was VERY nice. My '36 is bagged but it hasn't moved under it's own power yet... Arrgh, running one is just getting so tempting. The idea of being able to dial things in, with a dash mounted switch is just really appealing. Especially as bad as some roads are in some of the Urban areas..... Thanks, that's one vote on the positive side. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 05-01-2006, 05:49 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster I vote NO!!!! I just spent a good chunk of change on coilovers (got the fronts, was going to hold off on the rears but ordered them today) and now your going to come up with something better?? Quote "arrgh!" Quote!!!!!!!:D P.S. Bruce are you AKA Doc1of7? Dunno about better, but I do experiment, allot... I thought everyone knew that?, yes. Also, know as Grumpy, but there's a few of them. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 05-01-2006, 09:20 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster "Easily control damping force from the cockpit." I was more conserned with height adjustment. Yes, having adj shocks from the dash sounds neat. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-01-2006, 09:21 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GregInATL Air Ride Tech system Found there home page but there's nothing listed for the G-Bodies...... Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 04:50 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HYBRID-T I'm gathering all of the parts as we speak. Air Ride Technologies makes a Cool Ride kit for our cars HERE, but I'd really like to see a ShockWave kit with the dual adjustable built in shocks. Give me a couple of months and I'll let you know. Thanks! Not as bad as I was thinking it would be, at $549.... They have me curious about repositioning the shock, and then being able to turn the car much... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 09:39 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GregInATL $549 doesnt include valves compressor, lines, or tank, thats just the front kit. The Air Ride rep told me at the YR1 Experience 2 weeks ago, plan on $2,000 to get it up and running (front and rear). The cool ride and shock wave are both available for us, There is a pic of one on air here; Thanks... Not often someone can ruin my day, that well, LOL Yikes that adds up in a hurry. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 01:10 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SinistrV6 but there is still only one "ride height" where all of your geometry is where it is supposed to be for safety, tire wear, etc. Ya, 10-4 on that. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 05-04-2006, 04:22 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GregInATL Its much cheaper for me to do 1" springs, 2" spindles, and scrape the air dams off, and replace them semi annually at $75 each. I've done that, but with 1.5" springs for years, it's not at all a bad combo.. Using the dropped spindles with the Coil over setup might have saved having to cut the springs. Reply With Quote ---------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 01:10 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 While they're called headers, they're really just tubular manifolds. There's not precise lenghts, involved. As such they're just actually just log manifolds. When it comes to log manifolds, the collector design, and pipe merging, really doesn't matter much. And it more dictates where the localized heating will take place (ie and thus where stress cracks, or where welds will begin/ break). Another misconception is about how much a dimple effects gas flow on a *header*. Dave Vizard (sp?) did some actual testing in that reguard, and found that up to a 50% *dimple* wouldn't effect gas flow. The *proper definitions* about log manifolds, and cracking are covered in some turbo papers/ books, starting with Bucci's books. Reply With Quote --------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-04-2006, 05:01 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 What next?... Well, it's time for me to start thinking of a new turbo. While I've been a fan of the stock appearing ones, I think I'm going to want to make the plunge to one that not stock looking. I'm currently running a TA-62, 60 PPH injectors, 206/206 cam, Pocket ported heads, THDP, Cotton F/M, Alkycontrol, plenty of ignition power, 2,800 stall Yank lockup converter, Janis tranny. The car isn't a drag car, it's just a streeter, thou, obvious it's designed to run well. Now future plans are for a several combos.... One being a bored 4.1L, and the other a StageI 3.8L. Now, I've driven a 45a, and 76, and they seemed pretty good but were on AL headed, or fully ported headed engines. So would they be too much for what I've listed?. And is anyone one running a 70 on the street, and how do you like that one?. I'd rather keep the price down and avoid BB, or a GT series, but, will listen to any real life stories about the up/down sides of them. TIA. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 12:33 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM I had a PT-72 on a car. If it weren't for the spooled rear end I would have drove it anywhere! It is for sale btw If you ever decide to sale that stage block let me know Thanks for the reply, but I gotta ask, was that on more or less a stock headed combo.?. Not at this time, I wanna get a little crazy on a hybreed.... Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 01:23 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by LV GN but the power is in the heads so you really need to step that up. you will need bigger injectors and more stall. but i love that turbo. Ya, I'd love to get some really nice heads, but, it's a matter of $$$. I've taken the code that I've been running, and used it on a friend's TTA, that had some high rent Ported Iron Heads on it, and was just amazed at how quickly we used up the 60/65 PPH injectors, on it. It's been a while, but, I think we went up like 15% on fuel just to get close. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-04-2006, 04:33 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Predators For the last two weeks one of the *News* shows featured, the Internet, and sexual Predators. They staged it in Greenville, OH, well a friend had some business at the Darke Co Sheriffs office to day (the arresting authority, for the perps). Guess what?, all the cars they showed on the show are in the impund lot. Yep, that late model Vette is just sitting there, LMAO. Never saw the lot so full, it looks like all 18 perps in addition to being arrested had their cars confiscated. While in the past I didn't like the idea of confiscating vehicles, but this time, I don't mind a bit. Reply With Quote ------------------------------- #4 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 04:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbopowered68 i am going to pull the inline 250 engine out of the chevelle but before i pull it out i would like to bolt in my old stock GN turbo on to it. th intake will be made out of PVC pipe and i will make the exhaust some how. would this be good to bend the exhaust pipes? How about just using the stock exhaust manifold, and then just plumbing it to the turbo?. Turbos are heavy and take a well designed manifold to support their weight. And use that bender for the intake side plumbing Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 08:50 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbopowered68 its going to look real bad but i just want the boost gauge to move a little *No guts, no glory*.... There's only real option and that means allot more work. Going to a Bucci type exhaust and intake. What that would mean is using a dual scroll turbine housing, and splitting the intake manifold into two plenums, and using a 2 butterfly Throttle body. A stock turbo off like a IH 436 would probably be about right (figuring in the RPM range difference). The IH 436 turbos I've seen have all been dual scroll. The thing with doing Bucci type stuff, is splitting the pulses up so that they hit the turbine independently, and relatively evenly spaced. If you're not doing *Bucci*, then just any ole log type setup is going to give about the same results. For some reason the PCV idea, with the heat of a turbo, and vibration of an engine seems like an invitation to having something go pop. But, I'm just kind of a worrier about that sort of thing. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-04-2006, 06:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Anyone watch the new Pinks last night? I think the show should have equally matched cars, no more than a 4-5 link break needed! I missed most all of it... That show can be really interesting, or just completely lame. I gotta give a few of the drivers allot of credit, some of them seem to be really good about how much to lift at the end of the track. It'd be interesting to have them turn the clocks on once inna while. Maybe, for the last rounds. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 05-04-2006, 04:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM I think just two evenly matched cars. Then it's just a normal everyday drag race. This was the drivers get to Haggle for what they think is an advantage, or how much they might be able to outdrive the other guy. I like the back and both haggling. Not to mention when one guy has a problem, he's not automatically out of the running. Letting the audience see the *clocks*, would let them in on who if anyone is sandbagging, and that would be dynamite to me.. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 01:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Brer Rabbit I still say someone should take one of our cars cuz u simply cant tell how fast r cars can go by looking at them. I beg to differ with you. If it's a stock looking turbo, then you can have an idea of the range that it'll run, and if there's a big compressor housing or 4 bolt turbine flange, it just raises the ante. No to mention if you see the extra head bolts that a stage motor would have. Some guys are pretty savy about going fast, and looking almost stock, but there's always clues. Gas pumps, double pump wiring, the list goes on and on. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 01:26 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM As long as they don't come looking at the TR boards a sneaky 11.0 "stock" car could sure pull up on their ass! Some of them *been around*, some street racers, take this stuff really serious, and on a few of the shows an 11 sec is going to barely make the show. Granted some of the stuff seems kinda lame at times, but there's been a few hotrods, that really scooted down the track. What's stuck me as odd, it the lack of 1/8m racing. Seems like that would be really popular for this sort of thing, but no one plays that game. Reply With Quote -------------------------------- Old 05-06-2006, 07:06 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by kevin hess has anybody cracked a stock cylinder head before I've seen one crack between the valve seats. Just off hand that's the only one I recall, what's the deal with your question?. Reply With Quote ------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-04-2006, 08:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI Don't ALL the higher map sensors look similar to that? Dunno about that, but just as a FWIW, using a MAP sensor that does a direct reading off the plenum, is a great idea. Eliminating the hose, and any possible balloning of the plumbing is a good thing. Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 01:32 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI Thanks Bruce. That is one of the main reasons I elected to swap mine, especially since I only run 22psi of boost Ya, having some spare range is always a good thing. It's the pits when you hit the limits of the sensors...... After thinking about it, and with the possiblity of doing another toy, I went ahead and ordered one today. It's always a joy dealing with your shop. Reply With Quote ------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-06-2006, 09:07 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by V6 Power He looks like somebody poured hot wax on his face. http://dermnetnz.org/treatments/systemic-steroids.html Steroid use leads to what's called *Moon Face*, as well as a host of other traits. Jerry Lewis is also a victim of Prednisone (Steroid) use. Lots of transplant patients also wind up with Moon Face, Buffalo Neck, etc., etc.. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 06:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TSM Girl I have seen those pictures before in a magazine and I think he is starting to show his age or that he is just not taking care of himself. Pretty sad. Steroids can do that, and it's just a matter of time, and one's physical makeup for how one's body reacts to them. It took Jerry Lewis less then a year and just using *low dosages* of Prednisone before it happened to him. He mentioned the specifics on one of his charity shops a few years ago. *Low Dose*, is ~10 mg a day. Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 06:54 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJTURBO Sad he was truly the best in his game and revolutionized Body Building Maybe to some limited degree, but using drugs to get there, is asking for trouble, IMO. Legal or not. http://hjem.get2net.dk/JamesBond/www...ndsteroids.htm http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in676684.shtml http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3131051/ Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 07:33 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJTURBO Lou has been on drugs for years and is presently on HGH and he looks fine. Most all professional body builders use AAS. Presently looks, fine. Ah, the old, well everyone else does it so it must be OK, logic?. Even under a Dr.'s immediate care, the stuff can be unforgiving. Might try talking to the less then lucky folks before making statements about how *OK* they are to use. BTW, I'm basing some of my *opinion* on having been on them for a while, and having known others, that use them as part of their medical protocol. Quick reply to this message #20 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 08:24 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJTURBO Where did I say they were okay to use Pharm grade is nothing compared to what is available on the black market. Steroids have been used for years for injuries and medical conditions with great results. Anything abused leads you on a path of destruction.I can already see where another thread is headed Right here: Lou has been on drugs for years and is presently on HGH and he looks fine. Most all professional body builders use AAS. And your basing these statements, on what?. It doesn't take abusing them!, what didn't you get about the phrase *Dr's Immediate care*?. Geesh, someone tries to discuss something with you, and you take the same old tacitc, of thinking they're agruing, I'm just trying to state the facts of the matter. Did you read the links?. I'm basing everything I've said on first hand experience, and backing it up documentation. If you don't want to accept that, fine, but coping an attitude is pointless. ----------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 09:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Test Drive Wound up with a little time to kill yesterday, so I swung by a friends Muffler Shop. He and some of his other friends are into fords, Mustangs, Old Galaxies, Merkurs. They'd been out to Muncie, with a ranger, and one of the stangs, just stockers, and they'd been running low 13's. Just street stuff..... Anyways, I've been working on one of the guys to sell me his 86 Coupe, and we've yet to be even close in price. After a little while thou, he says, do you want to run for Pinks?. My immediate answer is YES, and my friend Jason starts laughing, almost to the stage of tears, and tells *Ted* to just go ahead and sign the title and give it to me so as not to waste the gas.. Ted now figures that he's messed up, and retracts his offer...... After a while I asked Ted if he wants to go around the block in my GN. Yep, is his answer. So I drive for a little bit to get the oil circulating, and MAT down a little. I then do a *launch*, and take it up to like 35. And his eyes get really large.... Turn the corner, and then do it again, going to 65, and nailed the brakes, hard.... That got him off the seat, and knocked my rear view mirror out of adjustment. He starts saying, sh!t, and repeating it, and repeating it. Get back to the shop, and it's still all he can say, other then that's a V6.... He'd seen some fast ones at Muncie, but never knew how a streeter could run.... Not to brag, but having Launch Mode, is just the neatest thing possible. Set the brakes, nail the gas, and then when you want to leave, let off the brakes. The ecm handles maintaining launch RPM, and retarding the timing to *set* the car to go. The educatin continues....... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 09:31 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Good deal Bruce:anbet: and good to see your spelling is getting better:haha: Education = Priceless. Oooops...... Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 06:24 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Cool deal What is your "launch" procedure Come to a stop, mash on the brake pedal, go to full throttle, then just release the brakes when I want to leave. The ECM watches the brakes, and VSS, over 25% throttle and no MPH, it figures to go into launch mode. There's a max rpm setting, and the ecm pulls timing out, to not let the engine exceed that RPM, when in launch mode. Then it has an adjustible decay rate for the timing retard, to come back in, so I can act as a passive traction control, in addition to having Traction Control. Yep, all with the stock ecm.. So it's, Stop, revs go to 3,000 RPM, and then leave when I want to. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 02:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by LiV4gnz do you have any special programming that lets you odo that or every t/r does that? [quote=SGRIM] Is that controlled by the chip? [quote] While somewhat based on GM coding, mine's been completely rewritten. The ecm in my car has some serious rewiring in it, so that I can run all my own code. In oem form the PROM/ CHIP is only about 1/3 of the programming in the ecm, the rest is permanently mounted on the Printed Circuit Board. ------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 02:53 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Noob I was thinking of switching to the LS1 MAF (I'd appreciate any comments on that as well, how hard it is, etc), and figured that while I was at it, and in the process of getting a new MAF pipe and up-pipe, I'd see how hard it'd be to relocate the MAF to the front of the throttle body, which would make a BOV easier to deal with as well. Part of me thinks this sounds like a good idea; part of me thinks it's retarded. Anyone tried this before? The GNTType Board, had a detailed article on how I did a blow-thru MAF. You just have to use one of the later Metal MAFs, since it will blow a oem Plastic one apart. To get all the benefits from it, means using the IAT timing corrections, and 0'ing out the MAF temp corrections. As mentioned you need to run a Translator, or Translator Plus. FWIW, a Turbo is a much better pressure pump, then vacuum pump. So a blow thru will always provide less resistriction then a draw thru, all things being equal. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- #13 Report Post Old 05-09-2006, 06:56 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TT/A1233 Try Didn't Ivan bail from the Sy/Ty community years ago?. He and Brain sure did alot of work on getting the Sy code to work better. Brain being the one to generate the first 3 bar MAP code for the Sy/Ty's. ------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 01:12 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN I drank enough last night to sponsor the race Your just such a good citizen!. Go Lil E!. Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 01:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Thank Ya, Thank ya very much Wrong *E*, Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 01:41 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Ahhhhhhh you caught me, pretty spry today I was up early, did my grocery shopping, did some chips (trying some NEW stuff out) and got my afternoon nap in, so I'm spoiling for something else to do.... I did notice a bottle of Chivas, with my name on it.... Might have to *make do* with that... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 02:10 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Yah I am about ready for a mid afternoon snack myself:add_wegbr :beer: ALreadY started here.... Working on #2...... Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 02:54 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Oh chit I better get started then:beer: Whatda lit wait On 4rd know Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 04:52 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by DARRELLTHOMAS :beer: This bud's for you :beer: No mi wel celet onc a whidle.... Civs betr Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 05:08 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Buick GN Boosted Bet he had a good Bud hangover this morning. Bet Harvick's crew chief got a good tongue lashing too. He had that race in the bag. Good to see Junior finally win one for a change. Goode pots #19 Report Post Old 05-07-2006, 08:07 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Know grate pst:add_wegbr Garte waz da Elvs 1..... Hahaa ------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-09-2006, 05:33 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 The *Correct Tune* In case anyone's missed the fuel cost thread in the library, I thought I'd mention it over here. These are snippets from a datalog I did today, at various MPH, and Loads. 180dF Coolant temp. 180dF Oil Temp. 75dF ambient air temp. This is also on 87 Octane, and obviously in a lean cruise mode, well other then the 150 K/Pa area. .EngRun. Mph.Rpm.KPa.Tps.CtsF.MatF.Spkf.PW.WB 00:14:51 30 1425 71 22 182 91 20.8 3.48 17.6 00:14:51 30 1400 71 22 182 91 20.4 3.48 17.3 00:14:51 30 1425 70 22 182 91 20.4 3.48 17.6 00:14:51 30 1375 71 22 182 91 20.4 3.48 17.6 00:14:51 30 1400 71 22 182 91 20.4 3.48 17.3 00:14:51 30 1400 71 22 182 91 20.4 3.48 17.6 00:14:51 30 1400 71 22 182 91 20.8 3.48 17.7 00:14:51 30 1400 70 22 182 91 20.8 3.48 17.3 00:14:51 30 1425 70 22 182 91 20.4 3.48 17.6 00:14:51 30 1400 71 22 182 91 20.8 3.48 17.5 00:14:51 30 1425 71 22 182 91 20.8 3.48 17.5 00:14:51 30 1450 70 22 182 91 21.8 3.51 17.4 00:14:51 30 1425 70 22 182 91 21.8 3.51 17.4 00:14:51 30 1425 70 22 182 91 20.8 3.51 17.6 00:14:51 30 1450 70 22 182 91 22.5 3.42 17.2 .EngRun. Mph.Rpm.KPa.Tps.CtsF.MatF.Spkf.PW.WB 0037 58 1825 61 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 17.4 0037 58 1825 61 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 17.6 0037 58 1825 61 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 17.6 0037 58 1800 63 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 17.8 0037 58 1825 63 22 184 89 31.3 3.05 17.9 0037 58 1825 63 22 184 89 31.3 3.05 18.3 0037 58 1825 63 22 184 89 31.3 3.05 18.1 0037 58 1825 63 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 18.1 0037 58 1825 61 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 18.2 0037 58 1825 61 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 17.8 0037 58 1800 64 22 184 89 31.3 3.05 17.9 0037 58 1850 63 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 17.7 0037 58 1800 63 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 18.1 0037 58 1825 63 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 18.1 0037 58 1825 63 22 184 89 31.3 2.87 17.9 .EngRun. Mph.Rpm.KPa.Tps.CtsF.MatF.Spkf.PW.WB 0022 77 2375 78 32 186 89 29.2 3.97 16.7 0022 76 2375 79 32 186 89 28.9 3.97 16.4 0022 76 2375 80 32 186 89 28.9 4.06 16.4 0022 76 2375 78 32 186 89 29.2 4.06 16.7 0022 76 2375 79 32 186 89 29.2 4.06 15.9 0022 76 2375 79 32 186 89 29.2 3.97 16.4 0022 76 2375 78 32 186 89 29.2 3.97 16.6 0022 76 2375 78 32 186 89 29.2 4.06 16.7 0022 76 2375 79 32 186 89 29.2 3.97 16.6 0022 76 2400 79 32 186 89 29.2 3.97 16.5 0022 76 2375 78 32 186 89 28.9 3.97 16.7 0022 76 2375 79 32 186 89 29.2 3.97 16.7 0022 76 2375 80 32 186 89 28.9 4.06 16.7 0022 76 2375 78 32 186 89 29.2 3.97 16.7 0022 76 2375 79 32 186 89 29.2 3.94 16.6 .EngRun. Mph.Rpm.KPa.Tps.CtsF.MatF.Spkf.PW.WB 00:25:05 81 2550 153 56 188 92 21.8 9.09 13.4 00:25:05 82 2575 153 55 188 92 21.5 9.09 13.6 00:25:05 82 2550 153 54 188 92 22.9 9.09 13.3 00:25:05 82 2575 153 53 188 92 22.5 9.00 13.5 00:25:05 82 2575 153 53 188 92 22.5 9.00 13.1 00:25:05 82 2650 152 52 188 92 22.5 8.97 13.1 00:25:05 82 2775 150 52 188 92 22.2 8.82 12.7 00:25:05 83 2800 149 51 188 92 22.2 8.97 12.9 00:25:05 83 2800 152 51 188 92 22.2 8.97 12.8 00:25:05 83 2825 151 52 188 92 22.2 8.97 13.0 00:25:05 83 2825 151 51 188 92 22.2 8.97 12.7 00:25:05 83 2825 151 51 188 92 22.2 8.97 13.1 00:25:05 83 2850 151 51 188 92 22.2 9.13 13.3 00:25:05 83 2875 155 51 188 92 22.2 9.40 13.3 00:25:05 83 2875 153 51 188 92 21.8 9.40 13.6 The low timing, lean cruise is just sweet..... So much for the theory about lean mixtures needing alot of timing. With the latest tuning, and using 87 Octane, I'm saving almost 50 cents a gal in fuel costs, compared to just a few months ago. Naa, not gonna fix the 22 and 23 times, LOL Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-10-2006, 12:46 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Here are 2 snippets from some data logs, the first one is 3 months old, the new one is from today. While not a perfect match for temps., they're as close as I could find. The timing Spkf, and PW's tell the story. This supports the case for good ignition systems, and how the GN can be improved upon for making POWER, and MPG. Power, and MPG both are about recovering energy from the fuel burned. Old Tune: (Thou, with 6 coil DIS) EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB 00:02:32 56 1750 60 22 174 74 35.6 3.17 15.8 00:02:32 56 1750 60 22 174 74 35.6 3.17 15.8 00:02:32 56 1750 59 22 174 74 35.6 3.17 15.7 00:02:32 56 1750 60 22 174 74 35.6 3.17 15.6 00:02:32 56 1750 60 22 174 74 35.6 3.17 15.6 00:02:32 56 1750 59 22 174 74 35.6 3.17 15.6 00:02:32 56 1750 59 22 174 74 35.2 3.27 15.6 00:02:32 56 1750 59 22 174 74 35.6 3.17 15.5 00:02:32 56 1725 61 22 174 74 35.2 3.14 15.5 00:02:32 56 1750 60 22 174 74 35.6 3.24 16.2 00:02:32 56 1750 61 22 174 74 35.2 3.14 16.3 00:02:32 56 1750 60 22 174 74 35.2 3.27 16.3 00:02:32 56 1750 60 22 174 74 35.2 3.17 16.2 00:02:32 56 1750 60 22 174 74 35.2 3.27 16.2 00:02:32 56 1750 60 22 174 74 35.6 3.14 16.2 New Tune: EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB 00:20:50 56 1775 59 21 190 87 31.3 2.78 17.1 00:20:50 56 1750 60 21 190 87 31.3 2.78 17.2 00:20:50 56 1775 59 21 190 87 31.3 2.78 17.2 00:20:50 56 1800 59 21 190 87 31.3 2.69 17.3 00:20:50 57 1750 59 21 190 87 31.3 2.69 17.4 00:20:50 57 1775 59 21 190 87 31.3 2.75 17.5 00:20:50 57 1775 59 21 190 87 31.3 2.75 17.2 00:20:50 57 1800 58 21 190 87 31.3 2.66 17.2 00:20:50 57 1775 59 21 190 87 31.3 2.69 17.4 00:20:50 57 1800 59 21 190 87 31.3 2.78 17.3 00:20:50 57 1775 60 21 190 87 31.3 2.69 17.4 00:20:50 57 1800 58 21 190 87 31.3 2.69 17.4 00:20:50 57 1775 58 21 190 87 31.3 2.69 17.4 00:20:50 57 1800 59 21 190 87 31.3 2.69 17.4 00:20:50 57 1775 58 20 190 87 31.3 2.69 17.4 Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 05-10-2006, 02:29 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by aminga Bruce, Let me hijack this thread a bit. What would it take to have the ECM code figure out if the vehicle is runnign on ethanol, gas or a blend of the 2 from 0-100%? Something about the ethaol being 110 or so octane appeals to me. While we talk about 14.7:1 when in closed loop, that's because we're talking about gasoline. If you were running alky the same O2 voltage output would still be Stoich, but you'd have to add 2x the fuel. The ecm is actually pretty dumb, it just does what you tell it to. If you had a stocker (just talking about the ecm here), and wanted to swap to alky, all you'd really have to do, is double the injector size (assuming the 30 PPH original ones, and then the 60 PPH replacements were all perfect [linear]). It would take some tweaking both in fuel and timing to get it right, but it's *just* tuning. Reply With Quote ---------------------------------- #4 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 08:22 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HUBCAP When people call your car a monte carlo?Not that there is anything wrong with a carlo,but damn,there is a little difference... Mad?, not hardly. Life's to short to get mad over something that trivial, IMO. If you want to get mad at the poorly informed, you'll spend the rest of your life mad. Reply With Quote -------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 03-17-2006, 07:32 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GNBUICK87 well just picked up a TE 60 should i go with a 3200 stall and what brand converterwhat is better lockup or no lockup What's your primary goal for the car, and it's useage?. I ran a 50 with a stock converter for years, and was happy with it. If you're into drag racing then yes you want more converter. The ideal way to select a converter is trying to *beg* a ride in a car that has the converter you're thinking about. -------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 07:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 A Question Can someone with a stock car, take a gander at how much clearance there is between the front upper suspension stop, and A-Arm?. It's the one on the front of the lower A-Arm. TIA Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-12-2006, 04:03 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by stuie Bruce, I just checked mine...just in time too as it's all being replaced tomorrow, as I told you when I talked to you the other day, with the BMR and Baer stuff:D The distance between the top of the bump stop and the frame where it hits is only about 1/4" ??? I don't know how that compares with other cars. My car has low Km's on it only 33,000 and sits on jacks on the frame in the winters. Hope this helps I'll talk to you after the installation let you know how it went! Thanks!.. I have about that now, with that wedge shaped part (top) cut off. Report Post Old 05-12-2006, 06:24 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Zoliaster Doesn't the conical shape effect the "rate" of the stop so that there is a little give before it stops? Or is this small amount inconsequential? I was told that the ZQ8 are better jounce stops because of the variable rate due to the softer top and cone shape. Thoughts? Yes, shape, and material do matter. When/If a car hits the stops during cornering, that *end* will break away, almost instantly (assuming it's going fast enough). Koni, has put a great amount of effort into their *cones*, to prevent the shock from bottoming out. Reply With Quote --------------------------------- #4 Report Post Old 05-01-2006, 08:54 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by V6 Power I just do not get it how he died, I know it is old now but looking at this crash again i just do not get it What's not obvious is just how fast he was going when he basically hit the wall head on. There's been estimates that he was still running at about 150 when he hit the wall. What happened is that his head rotated on the top vertabrae (sp?), and seperated the skull from the top of the spinal column (at least as I understand the fatal injury). Part of the problem was that he also moved with in the seat belts, which also allowed his head to snap even further forward, suring the impact. The difference between how he hit the wall, and KS is that Kenny caught the wall with just the front corner, so there was somewhat of a *crush zone* involved. Last edited by Bruce : 05-01-2006 at 08:57 PM. #6 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 05:41 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Just his time to go IMO! He went watching his 2 cars take the checkers at his favorite track! Ya, but, for me, I miss the man..... Yep, there are much worse ways to go. I am glad to see some safety improvements result from his passing. It's just as I get older, I'm getting to be kind of a soft heart about some issues, death being one of them. While the sport is inherantly dangerous, when it comes to slowing them down a tad, and soft walls, I'm all for it. After looking at Stewart's crash the other day, it just shouldn't be a matter of luck (or to such a degree), IMO, to be able to walk away from a serious crash. #8 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 05:56 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Didn't he always say he didn't wont to go out old and slow, kinda like Petty? I never heard that, but, can easily accept it. #10 Report Post Old 05-02-2006, 07:34 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by V6 Power I read something someplace that he had a nasty habit of taking off his seat belt last lap, wonder if this was the case The seat belt that was in the wreck, had *burn* marks from the attachment points. While the one EMT on the scene said it was off, it was because another EMT had just released it. It seems unlikely, IMO, that at any super speedway, he'd do something that risky, especially since he was still in traffic. While he at times seemed cavalier, he wasn't stupid. At the Glen or Sears Point, maybe, or at Riverside (I think he raced there a couple times) are all places where not to far past the start finish line, you have to slow alot, I could see him wanting to get out at say a Road Course early in his career because he just wasn't too good at em. #12 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 09:14 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Quiky One Heart attack. Then hit the wall. What's the source of that info.?. It seems to counter the Coroner's report. #16 Report Post Old 05-06-2006, 07:17 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJTURBO So are you saying he may have died from a Heart problem. Interesting as I know when Ken S got to his car, he later said he knew he was dead as he had deep red blood pouring out of his nose. His statement is just one of the early rumors that were floating around, the Coroner's report hasn't changed. I believe it's the artial (sp) blood that is darker then venius. The artial system is a bit more critical, and people rarely see it. Capillary, and venius, having donated their O2 supply is what's at the skins surface and is typically all people ever see. The arterial stuff is only seen like when doing an Arterial Blood Gas Draw, and people are clear on those, since all arteries have a nerve wrapped around them, and feel like a root canal, and having a blood draw. Judging from some of the descriptions of how his neck was seperated, it might have been obvious something was drastically wrong, and it was just the sight of the blood that drew his attention. Heck, for a while they thought the seat belt had been unbuckled, since the *tear* was so even, no one caught it. #18 Report Post Old 05-06-2006, 12:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by V6RACER IMO I think he loosened the belts. Maybe for comfort, maybe to jump out to congratulate his team.... A contour seat, and fitted belts are hardly noticable. There was again a runor about him undoing belts, but do you really think after that flying act at Daytona a few years earlier, that he would risk doing it?. Besides the *cut* belts were explained. It was the mounting angle of them that was wrong, and allowed them to *overheat*, and *seperate* (cut) at the lower mounting. #20 Report Post Old 05-06-2006, 06:03 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by NJTURBO He had a nasty habit of loosening his seat belt with 2 to go. I saw on TV where they showed the belt a little frayed, doubt that caused it. He did not hit the wall that hard compared to other crashes I have seen, something else I think caused it. I am sure the helmet he wore, no Hans device all played a factor. Got a link, or any creditable source of the *loosening his seatbelt* with two laps to go, claim of your's. Did you ever see his roll at Daytona?, do you honestly think someone that lived through that, would ever play games with his seat belts?. You've missed reading up on the dynamics of the crash. He basically hit a hard wall at 150 headon. It would have been difficult, if not impossible for him to hit the wall any harder then he did. There are literary hundreds of items, that all played a factor. ------------------------------------ Report Post Old 05-12-2006, 03:37 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper growing up the coolest lil factoid I know about that plane was that the Skin of the plane is actully a membrane, and leaked fuel till the plane was warmed up. One of my favorite pics of one, is with the 2 APUs plumbed into, and there's puddles of fuel laying on the ground. It's a head on view, and the fuel gave the appearance of it just having rained. Dunno how many times I've read *Sled Driver*. The one comment about being precious, was that if they errored even a little it could mean missing the target area, by a Hemisphere....... Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 05-12-2006, 03:56 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper I always thought the XB-70 was cooler, maybe its the enigma factor that it was cancelled after the crash, but all I can say is WOW after reading and watching several shows on that plane! Cool, for sure...... But, the SR was a workhorse. It played a pivotal role in so many events, that it really earned it's reputation. The first time I saw the XB-70, I was really caught off guard..... It's an overwhelming piece thats for sure. At the AF Museum, they have an A-12, SR-71, XB-70, Raptor, and B-2 all on display. They're all amazing craft..... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 05-12-2006, 06:33 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by David65 Speaking of the start carts, did you see this? Guess the engines were Buicks They have one on display at Wright Pat, and it has KenneBell stickers on it. Reply With Quote -------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-21-2006, 08:32 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by m2gn after 3 ecm's still can't find whats wrong. it runs for about 3 week and then it stops running. any ideas as soon as i see the service engine lite does'nt come on, i know the ecm took a s--t. plug in a new ecm and it runs. Start with the basics. Pin by pin go thur the ecm connectors, and make sure all the voltages seem appropriate. Then check the grounds on the back of the pass cylinder head. Stop by your local auto elect shop, and see if they can throw a scope on the car, to see if the alternator has a shorted diode, and is putting A/C into the system. Reply With Quote ---------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 05-21-2006, 11:42 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr What about the fancy oil filter relocation/turbosaver gizmo. Somehow my car ended up with one, but I'm thinking about removing it. Any thoughts?? Seems like alot of extra volume to fill with oil before the engine gets pressure. It works.... Especially if you go ahead and run the tall chevy truck filter. The more oil you hold the less likely you are to overheat it. Yes, you can overheat oil, and at that stage it loses it's ability to lubricate. In some engines, they use oil much like coolant, ie look at an *air* cooled Porsche engine, some of them carry several gals of oil.. Oil is relatively thick (not very compressible), and I doubt there's any difference in time to pressurize the oil, more then the stock set up with the heat exchanger. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 05-21-2006, 02:50 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Bruce, I believe most of the oil falls back down to the pan, except where their are spaces that have an uphill journey back to a port, like the oil filter for example. Am I wrong? Are there anti-drainback valves built into this somewhere? Does the oil system not mostly drain back to the pan after shut-down? Bruce, I'm not road racing. I can assure you I am never over-heating my oil. I am one of those anal-retentive guys that drives with the heat on during the summer for the safty of my engine if needed. I only give it a small blast of WOT every once in a while. (PS, I'm a member of the Bruce fan club. I appriciate your feedback on subjects. I know you have real experience with many goofy ideas and such.) Nope, the lines stay filled. There is a check valve in the oil filter to ensure the lines do remain filled. The low quality filters don't have, or have poorly designed check valves, and with them, you have a second of *lifter rattle*, due to the lines needing filled.. So if the lines were in fact empty they'd have the classic second of lifter rattle. You'd be surprised how quickly things get hot at WOT. Especially, in street use. The oil is hot to begin with, so it doesn't take much to get it really hot. The only way to tell for sure how much heat your putting into the oil, it running a guage.... Ugh, thanks..... I'm just not one for leaving things alone... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 05-21-2006, 04:01 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Bruce, is that the only way? How about oil color? I have roller lifters, not sure about them boys rattling. Do they? (Hydraulic roller) Oil Color, only tells you about the carbon contamination, ie blow by. Smell can tell you about fuel contamination. Other then that you need to do a chemical analyse to find out anything worth while (well other then seeing *fool's gold* type flakes in it). I'm not sure if even chemical analyse will tell ya if the oil's been overheated. You'd know it if they were rattling. Kinda sounds like a diesel warming up. --------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-23-2006, 11:51 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Why Bother?? Well, this might be some of the reasons: I got the alky auto-sense working...... Just turning the alky controller on, tells the ecm it's on, and switches the fueling, and timing when in boost, tables.. So now we can run at 17:1 in highway mode, use 87 octane, the flip a switch, and make alot more power then the tires can harness, in low gear. Remember what I said about the car starting to spool the turbo, and the car was picking up while still in N/A mode (reference the Tornado)?. Here's a gander at my latest VE table. I've still got some work to do over 3,600 RPM, but in high gear with the converter locked, that may take a while MAP (K/Pa) vs RPM 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100; RPM: 0, 0, 50, 70, 96, 96, 96,104,105,110,145,160,175,180,190,210,210; 400 0, 0, 50, 70, 95, 95, 95, 97,100,110,145,160,175,180,190,210,210; 600 0, 0, 50, 67, 84, 86, 91, 97,110,110,150,165,175,180,190,200,200; 800 0, 0, 60, 47, 84, 97,115,122,126,146,151,155,165,170,175,180,180;100 0 0, 0, 47, 99, 81, 89,120,125,142,149,149,162,179,186,177,180,180;120 0 0, 0, 35, 60, 81,113,125,128,144,153,159,181,177,186,201,199,185 ;1400 0, 0, 33, 66, 82, 99,112,124,146,154,161,180,180,192,203,206,182;160 0 0, 0, 30, 66, 71, 86,110,133,149,160,169,171,196,195,211,207,192;180 0 0, 0, 30, 40, 65, 90,105,123,128,143,154,172,188,192,197,193,189;200 0 0, 0, 30, 40, 60, 84,100,110,121,144,144,156,178,183,185,184,184;220 0 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 86,105,115,121,150,158,162,171,185,182,175;2400 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 70,100,115,120,125,145,155,165,175,178,170;2800 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 55, 85,100,115,125,141,155,160,170,170,165;3200 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 40, 80,100,115,125,141,150,160,162,165,165;3600 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 30, 75,100,115,125,141,140,155,160,160,160;4000 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 20, 60,100,115,125,141,140,155,155,155,160;4400 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 10, 50,100,115,125,141,145,145,150,155,160;4800 Typically at ~18 PSI even on good gas, one's limited to about 19d of timing, and needing low 11:1 AFRs in a TR, to stay out of detonation. With the alky on, and throttled WAY DOWN, I can run ~27d, at high 11:1 AFRs...... And yes, Martha, this is on 87 octane. EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB 00:09:42 49 4125 222 100 181 90 26.8 14.19 11.8 00:09:42 50 4100 218 100 181 90 26.8 14.10 11.9 00:09:42 50 4100 222 100 181 90 26.8 14.07 11.6 00:09:42 51 4100 216 100 181 90 26.8 13.95 11.8 00:09:42 52 4100 219 100 181 90 26.8 14.16 12.1 00:09:42 52 4125 218 100 181 90 26.8 14.10 11.9 00:09:42 53 4100 221 100 181 90 26.8 14.10 11.8 00:09:42 54 4125 223 100 181 90 26.8 13.98 12.0 00:09:42 54 4150 222 100 181 90 26.8 13.98 11.9 00:09:42 55 4150 224 100 181 90 26.8 14.10 11.7 00:09:42 56 4150 222 100 181 90 26.8 14.19 11.7 00:09:42 56 4175 221 100 181 90 26.8 14.19 12.2 00:09:42 57 4175 223 100 181 90 26.8 14.10 11.7 00:09:42 58 4200 223 100 181 90 26.8 13.76 11.4 00:09:42 58 4200 222 100 181 90 26.8 14.10 11.9 00:09:42 59 4225 223 100 181 90 26.8 13.76 11.4 Now as far as cruise goes, here's a snippet of that..... 31d timing, and running ~17:1 AFRs..... This is after the above snippet, and as you can see the MATs dropped.......... Nothing like the cooling effect of alky EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PWWB 00:10:12 57 1800 66 25 180 78 31.3 3.42 17.0 00:10:12 57 1750 67 24 180 78 31.0 3.51 17.1 00:10:12 57 1800 68 25 180 78 31.0 3.51 17.1 00:10:12 57 1750 68 24 180 78 31.0 3.51 17.2 00:10:12 57 1775 67 24 180 78 31.0 3.51 17.3 00:10:12 57 1775 67 25 180 78 31.3 3.51 17.3 00:10:12 57 1775 67 24 180 78 31.3 3.51 17.0 00:10:12 57 1750 67 25 180 78 31.0 3.51 16.7 00:10:12 57 1775 67 25 180 78 31.0 3.51 17.1 00:10:12 57 1775 68 24 180 78 31.0 3.51 17.0 00:10:12 57 1775 67 25 180 78 31.0 3.51 16.9 00:10:12 57 1775 67 24 180 78 31.0 3.48 16.7 00:10:12 57 1750 67 25 180 78 31.0 3.48 17.0 00:10:12 57 1775 68 25 180 78 31.0 3.48 17.2 00:10:12 57 1775 67 25 180 78 31.0 3.51 17.3 With a TR, you can have it all........... BTW, stock ecm, with my code, and using Alkycontrol.com TA-62, 60 PPH injectors, 206/206 Comp Cam, THDP, 6 Pak Coil set-up, Tornado, ATR Songle Shot (with added Ultraflow), DIY-WB, Lockers, Cotton F/M, Cotton's Double Pumper, Casper's Charging *Fix*, Fullthrottle Hot Wire, 235/40+285/40x17 tires, Janis Tranny, Yank Converter (2,800 RPM Stall), RJC Race Crank Pulley, RJC Water Pump Pulley, GM small altern Pulley, A/C Delete. Last edited by Bruce : 05-23-2006 at 12:05 PM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ------------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-23-2006, 07:21 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by gnxtc2 Is it possible to make an engire harness that could be installed while the engine is still on the stand. Once the engine is in the car, one could plug in the other end. One harness for stock ECM and another for a FAST system. What do you think? At BG I bought 2, 20 pin bulkhead connectors, from Casper's to be able to do the engine part of that. Reply With Quote ------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-24-2006, 08:04 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboCutlass On another post, it was said that the ecm reads a 5v reference signal. N/a cars read the standard 12v. How does this voltage conversion occure? What does it? I'm converting my CS and don't want to fry my ecm the second I turn on the key. ???? The ecm generates a 5v reference voltage for the TPS, CTS, IAT, etc.. Changing alternators has no effect on that. ------------------------------ Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-25-2006, 12:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turboculosis Anyone know which of the three wires of the MAP harness has the output curve signal? I'm looking to input the voltage to an FJO WBO2 controller so that I can datalog w/ the software they provided.TIA If your talking about a GM sensor, it's the center one. Reply With Quote -------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 11:54 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by t3intercooled I had to rebuild my motor and am looking for the pre-start up procedure for the cam sensor pre oiling, etc. Any help on where to find this info would be greatly appreciated. Assemble the oil pump, using vasoline to pack the gears with. Then use an electric drill perfreably an adj speed one, and then run it just long enough to get an oil pressure reading, or see some sign of oil flow. Then set your cam sensor, and fire 'er up. It should only take a moment for oil pressure to build. Then just do the normal new engine break in (or cam break in if you changed it). Reply With Quote --------------------------- Old 05-26-2006, 11:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper well more then normal.... I have been here for 3.5 hours and have done nothing but stare at my computer screen. Doesn't it have Solitaire on it?.... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 12:52 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper no they have taken that off..... I could play flash poker on here though Want a copy?. LOL Poker.... My ex, and I used to go to LV once inna while, I'd just loose what she'd won. She could win at anything. We usually got by with just paying for gas, and her winnings would take care of the weekend. Never saw anything like it. Unless, she wanted to win, then she'd just donate to the house, like the rest of us. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 03:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper I won a few hundred bucks in Jan. while I was in vegas, a combination of blackjack and casino WAR of all things! I just had to play when I found it.. Keno was my poison, but, I figured I broke even on the *free* drinks..... LOL Reply With Quote ---------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-23-2006, 04:26 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 What does detonation do?. It's rather easy to look at what detonation can do, during an engine's autopsy, but what did the damage?. Well, in reading Obert's *Internal Combustion Engine, and Air Pollution, he mentions that during detonation, the pressure rise within a cylinder can be in the order of 9,800 PSI PER DEGREE of Crankshaft rotation. Dunno about you, but, to me, it puts a real *face* on the issue. No wonder it can blow little flakes of AL off the dome of a piston, or destroy the rod bearing's oil film.... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 05-23-2006, 07:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by nathanstaaz i have a small piece (like 1mm in diameter blowen off my #3 piston, its not deep AT ALL, but is it something to worry about since it is an imperfection? Only if it has a sharp edge(s). Anything that's sharp has the potential to be a *hot* spot, and that can cause detonation, or worse yet, pre-ignition. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 05-25-2006, 05:05 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 86GN1 Bruce, How can you have detonation with race fuel and running cool like 180 There are literary books on this, but, in short, it goes something like this. As we know, as you compress air it gets hot. Gasoline has light areomatics in it, which start to vaporize as ~120dF. The act of piston compressing the gases, generates heat, and the charge can auto-ignite. Just as a diesel does, so can a gas engine, if something is *off*. As the mixture is first starting to ignite, that act, also increases the pressure in the cylinder, and worsens the situation. During the normal combustion process, the flame front moves relatively slowly thur the chamber, but in the case of detonation, the speed is faster then the speed of sound. The *rattle* associated with detonation, is actually this Supersonic flame front crashing into the cylinder walls. The above is quick synapse of what Obert talkes about in his book, The Internal Combustion Engine, and Air Pollution*. So, too low of Ocatane, which lowers the amount of gases that are low end aromatics, too much timing, too little timing, or too much fuel can all cause detonation. Not to mention that the acoustic type sensor used, can be *fooled*. Run alot of fuel, and that will dampen the *sound* of initial detonation. Left unchecked then detonation, can turn into preignition, and that only needs one cylinder event to bugger an engine up. Does that Help?. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 05:42 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by VadersV6 1) With detonation, abnormal firing occurs after top dead center, with the piston moving down already. This is not nearly as harmful. Basically you have one flame front that was created by the normal firing of the spark plug. But if something is wrong in the chamber to create a spontaneous firing on the other side of the cylinder, these 2 flame fronts collide and you see a big pressure spike. But this is way less of a spike than pre-ignition. 2) You can experience detonation quite often and see little, if any damage to the engine. You can be detonating for minutes and the engine can survive. 3) You can get pre-ignition for a split second and blow the motor. 4) I think the factory knock sensor only sees one of these phenomenon. I would imagine pre-ignition since its by far the most harmful. 5) It was saying I had nothing, yet I heard very loud marbles, and for months I figured there was something else rattling on my motor, so I would stay in it, god knows how much damage I was doing to the engine. I would drop the timing, and the rattling engine sound would disappear. It was weird cause it seemed way too loud to be a knock, but reducing the timing made it go away, which made it pretty obvious there was something else going on that my knock sensor didnt hear. Pretty crappy to have a sensor that can hear 1 note. 1) Not according to Obert, Heywood, the NACA papers etc.. While the event might last past TDC, it begins before it. 2) Yes, Detonation has degrees of seriousness, and some can cause serious damage quickly, and it can lead to pre-igntion. 3) Yes, just a few pre-igntion events can do serious damage. 4) No, it just is tuned for *hearing* detonation. 5) If the acoustic signature is *off*, the sensor can't hear it. But, the human ear is tuned to catch alot of different frequencies. So you can have audible detonation that the sensor misses. It's alot better then nothing, and for stock applications works very well. FWIW, pre-ignition can start at more then 130d before TDC. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 06:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 86GN1 Then how do newer cars run Superchargers on pump fuel and we have to run race fuel Lower levels of boost, and more developement in engine management. Not to mention advances in combustion chamber design. I'm running a F/M, alky injection, and 87 octane. Lots of people have to run race gas, because their tune is so far off. All it takes in one small area of the tune having too much timing, or too little fuel, and the engine goes into detonation. The tune (and corresponding code), has to be close enough (ie have enough granularity), to avoid those errors. With the right code, and tune, an engine is alot less sensitive to octane then you might expect (still talking about *newer stock cars, here). Reply With Quote ----------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 08:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by whistlingT I have a high Z ecm and 55lb/hr injectors that I bought used and the car runs good but the check eng light is on. There are 6-8 codes generated from prom error, too rich, too lean, voltage to high etc. It has a max effort thumbwheel with it. Any suggestions? I have a DS but I dont know that it will do anything I believe I may have a bad setup. Has anyone had any exp with this type setup? Clear the codes, inspect and reinstall the Prom, and try it again. The ME's have been run for years, and Steve has a good handle on what the various injectors need to run well. Once you clear the codes, if you want to do a DS log, you can send it to me, and I'll take a look to see if it shows any problems. BPLECAN@woh.rr.com Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 08:20 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by whistlingT Thanks I pulled the prom and reinstalled and still no change I will grab a DS log real quick and send it to you thanks for your help. The DS log is it ok to just send in driveway I really dont want to do a road trip until it is sorted out. That should be fine, ie standing still. I just want to see if anything really out of line shows up. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 08:43 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by whistlingT I did notice that (here is me showing my real lack of exact pcm workings) small prom style chip to the right of the main prom is missing. Is this norm on a modded ecm? The ecm needs both chips.... No, you need to grab the one out of your old ecm. Actually, any *Calpak* from a 1227148 ecm will work, even the N/A FWD'ers. It controls the limp home mode, but the ecm checks to make sure it's there. With 55s the limp home mode, ain't going to be much fun in any event. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 08:49 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by whistlingT so pull the one from my ecm and just plug in maybe problems go away? Maybe?, yes. It's a good start!, on curing it's ills. -------------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 09:09 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Limited-T The "service engine soon" light came on after my air intake somehow managed to fall off the inlet to the turbo while I was driving yesterday. I pulled over, re-attached it, and tried adjusting the crappily cut rubber fitting when I got home, and finally got it to fit snugly without any leaks (to my knowledge), but the light came on the next morning after I had done this. I ran the diagnostics check using a paper clip, and the systm flashed error code 23 which is the MAT sensor, but I am having trouble locating the correct sensor. I checked what I think is the MAT sensor as far as I can tell, and I unplugged the voltage supply to the ECM to see if the error code would be cleared, but it still shows up, so what exactly am I doing wrong, and what needs to be checked? To clear the codes, it's easiest to just unplug the orange wire by the ecm. In warm weather it should only take about 30 secs for the ecm to erase it's memory. The MAT is a sensor located by/on the intake ducting by they air filter. You may have cleared the code 23, but some codes set almost instantly. ---------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 05-26-2006, 09:13 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Quick6 Do you mean the TCC solenoid? Is there a TCC sensor? That's what I'd try replacing first. There are a 3rd gear, and a 4th gear, pressure switch in the tranny to tell the ecm what gear the tranny is in. The TCC solenoid seems to be the weak spot, and if it *sticks* the TCC can stay locked *on*. Reply With Quote --------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-27-2006, 08:57 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Valve Spring Notes From another list: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Importance of damper springs? What function does the damper spring have in valve spring sets that uses them? As the name implies, it's meant to damp out resonances the spring may have. Hit the right frequency range and a spring will start to vibrate and lose much of it's control of the valve. Most single valve springs come with a flat wire damper designed to dampen the spring's natural frequency. Some dual springs will have a damper but often dual or triple springs just rely on friction between the inner and outer springs to damp. Beehive springs typically don't need a damper since the diameter and shape of the wire varies so the various parts of the spring resonate at different frequencies so there's no single RPM where the whole spring goes into resonance. The only significant difference I can find is that the recommended springs have a damper spring. From Crane's website: "We recently had an interesting experience with a prominent Comp Eliminator racer that was deteriorating valve springs at an alarming rate. Although the spring that he was using was properly matched for his RPM range, weight of valve train, the particular dynamics and resonances of his particular camshaft, and other pertinent factors, the valve springs were living less than ten runs. After additional investigation, it turned out that his staging RPM was right in the middle of a bad resonance for his combination. After raising the staging RPM by only 200, the valve spring life was more than five times what it was before. There may have been other RPMs that also may have been dynamically less than optimal, but the engine transitioned through them so quickly that no harm was done. So, although the normal operating range was good, those few seconds spent at a constant RPM while being staged were using up his springs. Just because two similar camshafts (either from the same manufacturer or different manufacturers) have similar specs, their dynamic characteristics can be completely different. Crane may have three lobe shapes with basic specifications that might appear really close to each other but are designed for totally different applications. Be certain that you get the proper advice from our Tech Staff before ordering a custom camshaft to insure that what you'll be receiving is correct for your application." Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message -------------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-23-2006, 03:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by arkansasfiddler is ther any good (add to the tank) injector cleaner on the market? does this stuff do any good? also is there any good add to the tank octane boosters out there? i can get 100 oct aaviation gas here locally for $4/gal. the local 112 is $&/gal. im running alky but would like the fuel to be better than 93 oct. urine. GM, and Berryman, sell fuel injector cleaner that actually work. If it comes in a plastic bottle, it's just alky. You'll do better to run an alky injection unit, rather then additives. Alkycontrol.com is a good one. Reply With Quote ------------------------------------ Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 05-29-2006, 03:57 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN We had KansasCop87 and his family over,,, BBQ'd just had a great time. *Justin* stopped by with his new MAFTPRO, and we finished hooking it up, and installing the software. I didn't get to spend alot of time tinkering with it, but it looks slick. Then let him take my car for a short drive, just to see if the car drove well with someone else behind the wheel. It didn't take any time, til, he had the same silly grin I have when driving 'er. Let him do a few *launch assists*, and he thought it operated as well, as I do. Then being OH, it started raining. So it's Chivas time.... Reply With Quote ------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-28-2006, 09:37 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM What is the difference between these units and the factory units. Any experience with these?? Wonder why such a price difference Are either worth a crap?????? One is Cardone, the other Bendix. I've bought a few Cardone, and Bendix M/Cs over the years, no real issues with either. --------------------------- #1 Report Post Old 05-22-2006, 09:19 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 For those that missed Casper's at BG In addition to all the new harnesses, and adapters, for the XFI guys, he also know has bulkhead weatherpack connectors. They're not as small as the AN spec ones, but at $30 for a set of 20 pin bulkhead connectors, they're affordable. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 05-24-2006, 01:54 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Here ya go. It takes about a 2" thur hole. The white pieces are the stakes that form the secondary lock on the pins. There is a bolt in the center to hold the 1/2's together. The *red*, is a ruber seal that fits against the backside of the bulkhead fitting to make it water tight. Ther bag of gray and red items are the wire to terminal seals. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 05-24-2006, 06:41 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Louie L Bruce, thanks for the info and pics. I am all over this. Ive been wanting to clean up the fire wall with a similar plug. Glad to help. I like the idea of doing the wiring on the engine, when it's out, and then just using one connector to hook it all up, once it's in. I been through this once, and it was ugly.... This time around with the Bulkhead connectors, it will make it a thousand times more serviceble. Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: Wirez.jpg Views: 34 Size: 49.7 KB ID: 13175 --------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 05-29-2006, 01:09 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SleeperT-type What oil weight to run in a 122k mile 87 t-type. what would work best. Weight isn't that critical, a good 30W, or 10W-30 would be fine. Thing is that they're changing the additive packages, so you now want to run a truck, or heavy duty application oil. Shell Rotella, being one of them. If your going to do some racing then Valvoline 40 weight racing is a good choice. It's more important to keep fresh oil in it, then spending $$ for the full synthetics. Lots of people thou, some how feel better about spending alot on oil....... -------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-10-2006, 04:51 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 It's all about packing air into the motor. The cooler the air, the better. Alky does some cooling but it takes a fair amount to do the same amount of cooling that a Front Mount can. I opt'd for both. For playing, I just run on the intercooler, but if wanting to *go for it*, I turn the alky on. I haven't run times on the 2 setups, but with the alky on I can run more timing, and timing helps ALLOT. Alky off, I have 4d of knock retard, and with it on, none. Hiding an intercooler behind a radiator makes it an interheater. Reply With Quote ---------------------------------- Old 06-03-2006, 05:30 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Vacuum 6 Anyone try it? How does it work? Works out fine. I have a F/M, and just whisp a lil alky in. It's the best of all worlds. I can run 25d of timing, at 22 PSI. And I'm still working on the tune, and will be running even more boost. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 06-03-2006, 05:32 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper bad idea! one hick up and you are toast! NO....... One hiccup, and you hit the knock sensor. The oem knock limit is 12d, I run 5-6d more timing then I did with 93, so at worst all I'll do is hit the knock sensor, and it'll back out some timing. Reply With Quote ------------------------------------ Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 06-03-2006, 08:48 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper I tell you what Who knew that cutting trees down was so much f'n fun!!!!!! When I was in the service, we had to cut lanes of fire, for the Howitzers. *Fun* is daisy chaining a *forest* with det code, and 1/4lb charges of TNT. Then watching the *forest* jump up about 3', and then lay down. Now that's *FUN*.... Thou, a chain saw does sound like some fun Maybe, I just like loud noises.... Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 06-03-2006, 09:12 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper I have thought about making a pipe bomb (Home land security is gunna love this) out of black power and straping it to a tree... that has crossed my mind! Naa, I had a friend that tried the pipe bomb deal, he lost an eye, and 3 fingers for his effort. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 06-03-2006, 04:45 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM I think on a drag car they would be fine, but not on a street car I run manuals on my street car, and they're fine. From a reliability stand point, they're light years ahead of an booster you'll find. As far as the original posting, I doubt the pedal ratio is correct for manuals with that set-up, it would take an incredibly small bore M/C to get resonable pedal effort... In the library there's lots of info., about brakes, and my manual set-up. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 06-04-2006, 04:27 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by gnxtc2 I searched the library and read your post about manual brakes. From what I read, there were some things left out. I PMed you Bruce and never received a reply. ??? Try it again, then. I do at times have to *leave*, and sometimes it takes a while, but I always reply. Dunno what happened on that one. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 06-04-2006, 12:01 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by gnxtc2 Why, please explain. I thought by having a bigger M/C bore, more fluid was displaced with less pedal effort. It's about pressure, while a large bore M/C displaces more fluid, it moves with less *line* pressure. Effort is about the pedal ratio, and piston bore. Dave Morgan's book Doorslammers has a few good pages about brakes. Reply With Quote ------------------------------ #5 Report Post Old 01-14-2006, 09:25 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Ken Mosher, used to be one of the owners. He used to post over at TurboRegals. It's been a while since I've seen him posting anywhere.. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 06-04-2006, 07:04 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by sgtroy1031 Does anyone know where I can get a ESC Knock Module? This seems to be a hard part to find. I am trying to gather up some hard to find parts so that in 10 years I can still drive my GN. Any 87-88 FWD'er with a 3.8L will work. Be sure to get a couple sensors, as they're the other half of the system. Reply With Quote ------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 06-03-2006, 08:40 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by thepremier I went to the auto parts stores today Checker & Autozone to buy a replacement front hub/rotor. I gave them the information about the car and they sold me the rotor that was for the car. When I was in the process of putting on the new rotor, I was unable to install the brake assembly over the rotor. The new rotor was too big by a slight margin. Can anybody tell me what brand of rotor will work, or where I can get a oem rotor? Or am I just going to have to do something about the brakes? Some of the aftermarket stuff is just plain junk. Just try a *normal* parts house, ie NAPA, and buy a Raybestos Rotor. You did fully compress the piston back into the caliper, didn't you?. Reply With Quote #6 Report Post Old 06-04-2006, 07:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by thepremier What could be the problem? All I see left is that the pads are too thick, assuming you have the piston fully compressed. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 07:56 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by thepremier So I am going to have to buy some different brake pads? Seems like they should exchange them. I can't think of anything else that'd cause that problem. Reply With Quote ------------------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-06-2006, 05:50 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 The Self-Locking F-22 The Self-Locking F-22 By ROBERT BRYCE L ast week, Lockheed Martin announced that its profits were up a hefty 60 percent in the first quarter. The company earned $591 million in profit on revenues of $9.2 billion. Now, if the company could just figure out how to put a door handle on its new $361 million F-22 fighter, its prospects would really soar. On April 10, at Langley Air Force Base, an F-22 pilot, Ca pt. Brad Spears, was locked inside the cockpit of his aircraft for five hours. No one in the U.S. Air Force or from Lockheed Martin could figure out how to open the aircraft's canopy. At about 1:15 PM, chainsaw-wielding firefighters from the 1st Fighter Wing finally extracted Spears after they cut through the F-22's three-quarter inch-thick poly carbonate canopy. Total damage to the airplane, according to sources inside the Pentagon: $1.28 million. Not only did the firefighters ruin the canopy, which cost $286,000, they also scuffed the coating on the airplane's skin which will cost about $1 million to replace. Here are more photos of the incident. The Pentagon currently plans to buy 181 copies of the F-22 from Lockheed Martin, the world's biggest weapons vendor. The total price tag: $65.4 billion. The incident at Langley has many Pentagon watchers shaking their heads. Tom Christie, the former director of testing and evaluation for the DOD, calls the F-22 incident at Langley "incredible." "God knows what'll happen next," said Christie, who points out that the F-22 has about two million lines of code in its software system. "This thing is so software intensive. You can't check out every line of code." Now, just for the sake of comparison, Windows XP, one of the most common computer operating systems, contains about 45 million lines of code. But if any of that code fails, then the computer that's running it simply stops working. It won't cause that computer to fall out of the sky. If any of the F-22's two million lines of computer code go bad, then the pilot can die, or, perhaps, just get trapped in the cockpit. One analyst inside the Pentagon who has followed the F-22 for years said that "Everyone's incredulous. They're asking can this really have happened?" As for Lockheed Martin, the source said, "Whatever the problem was, the people who built it should know how to open the canopy." Given that the U.S. military is Lockheed Martin's biggest client, perhaps the company could provide the Air Force with a supply of slim jims or coat hangars, just in case another F-22 pilot gets stuck at the controls. As if the latest canopy shenanigans weren't bad enough, on May 1, Defense News reported that there are serious structural problems with the F-22. Seems the titanium hull of the aircraft isn't meshing as well as it should. Naturally, taxpayers have to foot the bill for the mistake (improper heat-treating of the titanium) which is found on 90 aircraft. The cost of repairing those wrinkles? Another $1 billion or so. Lockheed Martin's F-22 spokesman, Joe Quimby, did not return telephone calls. Robert Bryce lives in Austin, Texas. He is the author of Cronies: Oil, the Bushes, and the Rise of Texas, America's Superstate. He can be reached at: robert@robertbryce.com --------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 08:27 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by LiV4gnz we all know when something breraks you post it up and ask for help, tips or advice. thats basically what i always hear about. wat about the people who arent breaking parts and that are really enjoying their car? post it up how your car is runnning, anything new with your car, or how your ride is treaten you. GREAT ! !....... After 4 years of rewiring the guts of the ecm, and rewritting the code, it's all come together. It's been about a month now, that the car drives as smooth as silk, and has instant response to the throttle pedal. I still have some WOT tunig to do, but that's a no big deal, getting all the code right was an incredible project. I even have auto sensing for when the alky injection is on, and the ecm automatically changes the fuel, and timing tables.... The launch assist is now flawless. Last fall I finished installing the 02 Camaro brakes, and it stops on a dime. With the launch assist on, I can floorboard the gas, and the car just sits there in staged mode. No muss no fuss..... Finally got the coil over suspension on all for 4 corners. I still want to change the lower front arms, but that can be done anytime. The Janis tranny has been perfect, as well as the Yank converter. Just need to get the good engine done, and in..... In 40 years of owning hotrods, this is the closest to having the perfect ride, as I've gotten. She's tried my patience, and kept me poor, that's for sure, but I've never had a ride, that's been so rewarding to own. Reply With Quote --------------------------------- #5 Report Post Old 06-08-2006, 10:34 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM I you know the story behind the movie see if you can belive this How fascinatin...... Probably name her next kid, Satan, maybe Jeffrey D, Son of Sam, Helter Skelter, Manson, or Hillary.... LOL Reply With Quote --------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-08-2006, 04:21 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 This mornings whinings Gads, does anyone else get as tired as I do of listening to female *news reporters*, and the way they whine when the talk?. Sawyer this am really had it nailed for being annoying. 3x in less then 3 minutes, she mentioned Zarqawi was wearing the same clothes as he did in his last video, geesh, just how lame is that?. A real bad guy gets his, and they want to talk about what he latest fashion statement was...... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 06-08-2006, 11:25 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Bruce, between that and the crazy $$$$$ they make I quit watching. I just come in and read the news on the internet now:D I figure if I listen to them, read the paper, and then think about what wasn't said, then I might get a better picture of what the truth is. That, and it's fun to listen closely to catch their slip ups, ie when they talk about their views which often don't any sense. It seems like they all drink from the same coolaid mix nowadays. What's amazing is how gullible folks are nowadays. You have *reporters* who hate their assignments, *reporting* *objectively*, LMAO. I wonder how many *reporters* would cut the mustard as a grunt, or even take the oath of enlistment?. I wonder how many troops have died/ been wounded covering their arses?. Hmm, still now word on how much the media's payed for all the military medical attention, they've slurped up. Reply With Quote --------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-08-2006, 02:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 My Living Will Last night, my wife and I were sitting in the living room and I said to her, "I never want to live in a vegetative state, dependent on some machine, with fluids from a bottle. If that ever happens, just pull the plug. She got up, unplugged the TV and threw out my Chivas. B1tch !!! Reply With Quote ---------------------------- Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 06-04-2006, 04:37 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim BRC's I understand rattle cold, BRC is the last firm I'd ever do business with again, from day one they screwed up the order, and never would make good on the junk they sold me. Just little things were wrong, like the piston dome volume was wrong, and they sent Stage II pistons, instead of for a *normal* 4.1L. No one would return calls, and anyone you wanted to speak to was on vacation. Not to mention they screwed up on the heat treat... Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Old 05-22-2006, 07:01 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by A-man930 I'm thinking of Regals in particular, what are the differences/similarities between the two? Bodies, interiors, etc... I'm thinking of a way to avoid high insurance costs, taking a non-turbo Regal and swapping in the LC2 driveline should do it (unless I get in a wreck and wanted to claim it for some reason). What issues am I going to encounter? Thanks, all opinions are welcome! Trying to cheat an insurance co., can bite you big time. The last thing you want is them telling you to take a powder, when 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars are at steak. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 05-23-2006, 11:30 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by blacknblue How does the insurance company know its a GN and not a Regat T or t-type? There is no way to tell from the VIN. My agent came out to take pictures of mine. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 05-24-2006, 11:46 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by A-man930 Guys, the main thing I'm looking for is a fast car for relatively cheap. In all honesty, if it weren't for the INSANE insurance cost, I'd be picking up a '96 or '97 WS6... a car that's not only ten years newer, but comes with an m6, looks amazing out of the box, and isn't going to give me as much trouble in general. If you don't truely want a TR, then don't get it. They're not the most user friendly car out there. If you want fast, easy to work on and insure then just get something with a V8, and add some Nitrous. From the sounds of your posting, your going to be making too many compromises to really be happy with a TR. Reply With Quote -------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 06-10-2006, 07:30 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by t3intercooled Alright I found out the starter problem. I had a wrong wire hooked up. Now the one that wasn't supposed to be hooked up at the starter, I have no clue where it connects too. It is molded as part of the factory positive batter cable. Has a small eye on the end and is about 63" long. Its not aftermarket, cause it is molded into the factory battery cable. It looks like 10 gauge or a little bigger wire? Any ideas where this may connect to? Sounds like the alternator power feed wire. Red? Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 06-10-2006, 08:40 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by kevin hess he needs a test light or ohm meter to find out were it begins and were it ends all the gns and ttypes i worked on the alt power comes off the batt this could be different dont you agree have a good one bud: All I can say, is that on my GN, and the others I have worked on there were 3 wires coming off the + terminal, the Orange ECM power, the main feed, and the altern wire. ~60", of red wire, with an eyelet on the end sounds like what I've always seen as the altern feed. He knows where it begins, he needs to know *where* it connects, a volt meter, or ohm meter isn't going to tell *where* to connect it. Just trying to use deductive reasoning/ logic, is all, not at all argueing. BTW, if it is the red altern wire, then it should go from the battery down to the K-Member, over, and then up to the altern., on the dirver's side of the engine. Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 06-10-2006, 09:55 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by kevin hess no argueing ment sorry you took it that way i should have put it another way my bad just trying to help the guy out No problem, it's just a common thing that people think I'm argueing, when they mistake my directness as being somehow being 'tude related. Reply With Quote ----------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 06-10-2006, 09:59 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Noob I'm planning on a QA1 coilover setup in the relatively near future, but I still want to run the stock T-type rims. Are there any tires out there that will fit my stock rims and give me some sort of decent handling, or is my only option upgrading to larger rims? The problem is that with 15's there is just so much sidewall. That much height allows the tire to squirm around a fair bit. While they can be made to work pretty good, the lower aspect ratios of even a 16 are noticeable. Not to mention that once one gets some big brakes, the 15s are no longer even an option. Reply With Quote -------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 05:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Hospital Info. http://www.hospitalinfection.org/protectyourself.shtml Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 05:32 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TSM Girl Good info, it is pretty sad that you as the patient has to "remind" Doctors, nurse etc about this stuff. I would rather be safe then sorry. People do get in a hurry, and at times, have things slip their minds. It never hurts to safe guard one's self. A guy I know had a bypass surgery, and got a staff infection. By the time they opened him up to clean out the infection it had gotten well into his sterum. Now 5 years later, it's still not healed, so both sides of his rib cage are independent of each other, and it's painful. The other item is that in so many O.R.s they do all sorts of surgeries, and when it's orthopedic, the saws, and drills introduce alot of aerosoled contaminants into the room, and the clean up is VERY difficult. Not to mention all it takes is one live bacteria, to start an infection. Reply With Quote ------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 05-27-2006, 06:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 My New Project Think Stage I, motor. Think as light as one can go with a steel shell. ie, I mean really light. While the GN is all sorts of fun for cruising, I'm just suffering from just not enough of an adrenalline rush. Hopefully, I'll be getting the title next week. Probably take forever for me to get 'er done, but I just have to have some sort of major project going.... Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: DS1.jpg Views: 43 Size: 46.9 KB ID: 13205 Click image for larger version Name: DSII.jpg Views: 25 Size: 45.4 KB ID: 13206 Click image for larger version Name: Front1.jpg Views: 33 Size: 38.1 KB ID: 13207 Click image for larger version Name: Int1.jpg Views: 19 Size: 33.5 KB ID: 13208 Click image for larger version Name: IntII.jpg Views: 21 Size: 37.8 KB ID: 13209 Click image for larger version Name: PS1.jpg Views: 16 Size: 45.9 KB ID: 13210 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-27-2006, 06:59 PM 86brick 86brick is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 286 Nice.. Nothin' wrong with a little Butang action! My bro's... Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: Butang4.JPG Views: 11 Size: 81.3 KB ID: 13212 Click image for larger version Name: Butang1.JPG Views: 10 Size: 89.2 KB ID: 13213 Click image for larger version Name: Butang2.JPG Views: 13 Size: 88.0 KB ID: 13214 Click image for larger version Name: Butang3.JPG Views: 60 Size: 82.2 KB ID: 13215 __________________ 87 Turbo-T, bolt-ons.... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 05-27-2006, 07:51 PM turbopowered68's Avatar turbopowered68 turbopowered68 is offline Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: L.I New York Posts: 734 Send a message via AIM to turbopowered68 hope you have fun good luck with it. and keep us posted __________________ 1968 chevelle (just started working on it again and getting it ready FOR SALE) 1987 Turbo Regal (needs work but not too Bad) Last edited by turbopowered68 : 05-28-2006 at 08:26 AM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 05-27-2006, 08:21 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 86brick Nothin' wrong with a little Butang action! My bro's... Care to share his engine combo., and any other details about it?. Would you happen to know how much it weights?. TIA Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 05-27-2006, 08:24 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbopowered68 hope you have fun good with it. and keep us posted This is going to be one, that there's no rush, or having to deal with a lack of room to work on it. So it's for sure not going to cause any worries or grief, for a change. For once, it's going to be just a *fun* *project*. Not going to worry about paint other then getting it in gray primer. Then just going to take my time, and detail things out the way I've always wanted too. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 05-27-2006, 09:33 PM 86brick 86brick is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Florida Posts: 286 Quote: Originally Posted by Bruce Care to share his engine combo., and any other details about it?. Would you happen to know how much it weights?. TIA Sure.. The engine is pretty a mild build~ .020 over 109 with JE pistons, crower rods, stock std/std crank, steel main caps, ESP's girdle, 212/212 flat tappet cam, ported irons with stock valves, ported stock intake, 83lb inj., twin Bosch 286 pumps, stock sumped fuel tank, Carteck FM intercooler, T66 Ptrim turbo, custom 3" DP, and an old FAST B2B system... The transmission is a Trans Specialties BOP Powerglide w/ a T-brake, 4000 stall converter, 8.8 rearend w/ a spool, 3.55 gear, 33 spline axles, etc. According to the original owner/builder of the car it is around 2600lbs w/ out driver, however, we haven't gotten it on an accurant scale down here and from having some friends that have been around Mustangs look at it they seem to think it is not quite that light, but there was definitely a pretty good effort to take weight out of it (basically if it doesn't need to be there it's not!).... We figure with my brother's 230lb body in it and a full tank of gas it is probably somewhere around 2900-3100lbs, but we obviously don't know for sure... The car had supposedly run some high 9 sec passes before my brother purchased it but that was with a different cam and tuneup... With the current 212/212 cam and a pretty conservative tuneup that came with the car (22* timing, 24lbs of boost, and an AFR of 10.5-10.8:1) the car has run a best pass of 6.70 @104mph in the 1/8 with a 1.55 60' on the MT 275/60/15 DRs which would most likely be a 10.50 @127mph pass in the 1/4.. __________________ 87 Turbo-T, bolt-ons.... Last edited by 86brick : 05-27-2006 at 09:41 PM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 05-28-2006, 04:33 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 86brick Sure.. Thanks!. I'd really like to get mine down that light..... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 05-28-2006, 08:15 AM DragulaGN's Avatar DragulaGN DragulaGN is offline T6P Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mexington KY Posts: 1,119 I have had the same thoughts Bruce. Maybe another Fox chassis car such as a Fairmont though......would make a killer sleeper:D __________________ Rob Mattingly 87 Grand National 11.06 @ 121 mph WWW.FORCEDINDUCTIONTECH.COM Wanna Be a Pimp? Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 05-28-2006, 08:53 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by DragulaGN I have had the same thoughts Bruce. Maybe another Fox chassis car such as a Fairmont though......would make a killer I would have liked to have found one. It's amazing how bad rust gets to Fords around here. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 05-28-2006, 09:25 AM DragulaGN's Avatar DragulaGN DragulaGN is offline T6P Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mexington KY Posts: 1,119 Hey Bruce...heres a nice one...just a little over priced http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-...QQcmdZViewItem And this one would be real nice...you could part out the drive train and pay for the body http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Fairm...QQcmdZViewItem __________________ Rob Mattingly 87 Grand National 11.06 @ 121 mph WWW.FORCEDINDUCTIONTECH.COM Wanna Be a Pimp? Last edited by DragulaGN : 05-28-2006 at 09:28 AM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-28-2006, 09:33 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by DragulaGN Hey Bruce...heres a nice one...just a little over priced And this one would be real nice...you could part out the drive train and pay for the body , that first one is ALOT more then what I paid for mine. The second one, is a lil less then what I paid. I do things on a real budget.... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 05-30-2006, 07:13 PM Bryan C.'s Avatar Bryan C. Bryan C. is offline Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Martin, TN Posts: 2,659 Send a message via Yahoo to Bryan C. Bruce - Nice thing about an SVO Mustang is that it has 5 lug wheels and 4 wheel disc brakes. That is a good start. __________________ 4 Buicks, 2 Fords, & an Opel :hmmm: Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 06-13-2006, 09:10 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Geesh, it took until today to get the title...... But, she's home and tucked away in the garage. Got a good look underneath, and it's only got surface rust. Found some 96 spindles and brakes on Ebay, and bought them. So now I'm truely commited. Just need to get the VIN number to my insurance guy, and the paper work will be done. I can see this ride being really light. And can't wait to have a car to try some new ideas on!. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 06-13-2006, 09:58 PM phillyturbosix's Avatar phillyturbosix phillyturbosix is offline Tech Advisor Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 547 Send a message via AIM to phillyturbosix Good luck with it.. there is just something so wrong to see the turbo six in a $hitstang! __________________ 87 Buick Grand National T-tops, late build, with low options. 90K Rebuilt everything! All the basic mods. I love Alky! :anbet: 89 Pontiac Turbo Trans Am #396 Stock 28K original garage baby. Featured in Hemmings Muscle Machines Feb. 2006 issue. NEW pictures here! http://turbobuicks.net/gallery2/v/Philly/ Pennsylvania State Representative for MAGNA Join today! http://www.magnabuick.com/ Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 06-13-2006, 11:09 PM John Wilde's Avatar John Wilde John Wilde is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 333 I am suprised that you are not going to make the turbo 4 sing or maybe turbo sbf. These cars are different and special for mustangs. __________________ John Wilde Blue 86 T Type Daily Driver www.swcyber.com/nightmare/SuperStocker.html Black 86 T Type Stage 2 in the works http://www.swcyber.com/nightmare/john.htm Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 06-13-2006, 11:26 PM Reaper's Avatar Reaper Reaper is online now Pit Bitch Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 3,812 Send a message via AIM to Reaper Send a message via Yahoo to Reaper its an SVO, I kinda like it! __________________ Save the Whales, Harpoon Fat chicks!!!!! www.arizonagn.com Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 04:29 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by phillyturbosix Good luck with it.. there is just something so wrong to see the turbo six in a $hitstang! I agree with ya, but to make a light, suspsension available, car, they're hard to beat. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 04:32 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by John Wilde I am suprised that you are not going to make the turbo 4 sing or maybe turbo sbf. These cars are different and special for mustangs. I did the 4 cylinder Ford Thing with the 2000s that were in the Pintos. Dual 45mm Webers, all the good stuff. But, for the weight of one of them, one might as well go to a SBF. Initially, I was thinking of an old For P-U, with a inline 6 (300CID), and doing that, but I'm getting to old to want to do that much fabrication. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 04:34 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper its an SVO, I kinda like it! What'll see it when the suspension is done. That is if you like slammed cars. Looks like Griggs is going to make a small fortune off of me. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #20 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 07:08 AM Nashty Nashty is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Illinois Posts: 69 It's a lot easier to go fast with a car that's light (and aerodynamic) to begin with. Doing the build up is the funnest part if you ask me. I loved building my car up and I know what you mean about detailing it the way you want, that's what makes it YOUR car. My Geo weighed 1600# from the factory. It gained quite a bit of weight in the conversion. I really like the SVO body diferences. Should be a neat car when done. Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #21 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 04:56 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Nashty It's a lot easier to go fast with a car that's light (and aerodynamic) to begin with. Doing the build up is the funnest part if you ask me. I loved building my car up and I know what you mean about detailing it the way you want, that's what makes it YOUR car. My Geo weighed 1600# from the factory. It gained quite a bit of weight in the conversion. I really like the SVO body diferences. Should be a neat car when done. I just noticed your in Il, where about?. That was you at BG (with a TR powered Geo) in 05, right?, I really enjoyed watching you run. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #22 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 05:29 PM John Wilde's Avatar John Wilde John Wilde is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 333 Quote: Originally Posted by Bruce I did the 4 cylinder Ford Thing with the 2000s that were in the Pintos. Dual 45mm Webers, all the good stuff. But, for the weight of one of them, one might as well go to a SBF. Initially, I was thinking of an old For P-U, with a inline 6 (300CID), and doing that, but I'm getting to old to want to do that much fabrication. Bruce, Have you heard about the ford turbo 6 motors from Australia? __________________ John Wilde Blue 86 T Type Daily Driver www.swcyber.com/nightmare/SuperStocker.html Black 86 T Type Stage 2 in the works http://www.swcyber.com/nightmare/john.htm Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #23 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 05:35 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by John Wilde Bruce, Have you heard about the ford turbo 6 motors from Australia? Not really. As it is thou, I can just about put together another drivetrain now with what I have on hand. Do you have a link thou?, I'm always interested in engine stuff. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #24 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 05:39 PM John Wilde's Avatar John Wilde John Wilde is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 333 Bruce, Check this out! http://www.fpv.com.au/cars/f6-typhoo...on/engine.aspx __________________ John Wilde Blue 86 T Type Daily Driver www.swcyber.com/nightmare/SuperStocker.html Black 86 T Type Stage 2 in the works http://www.swcyber.com/nightmare/john.htm Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #25 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 05:49 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by John Wilde Bruce, Check this out! The F6 Typhoon is a sweet ride, going by the spec sheet.... Kind of heavy, but who needs an interior?...... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #26 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 05:55 PM John Wilde's Avatar John Wilde John Wilde is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 333 Don't laugh but I think they are making over 1000hp with "stock" type motors. __________________ John Wilde Blue 86 T Type Daily Driver www.swcyber.com/nightmare/SuperStocker.html Black 86 T Type Stage 2 in the works http://www.swcyber.com/nightmare/john.htm Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #27 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 05:56 PM John Wilde's Avatar John Wilde John Wilde is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 333 BTW - I hate how the Aussies get a lot more factory hot rods then we do! http://www.hsv.com.au/index_new.asp __________________ John Wilde Blue 86 T Type Daily Driver www.swcyber.com/nightmare/SuperStocker.html Black 86 T Type Stage 2 in the works http://www.swcyber.com/nightmare/john.htm Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #28 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 06:41 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by John Wilde Don't laugh but I think they are making over 1000hp with "stock" type motors. So who's laughing?, I like the looks of the car, and engine. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #29 Report Post Old 06-14-2006, 06:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by John Wilde BTW - I hate how the Aussies get a lot more factory hot rods then we do! The Pony Car Market is just about dead in America, or so it seems. It used to mean a cheap car, that was light, and had a high HP drivetrain, but it seems to have gotten to be a porkfest with how much they can hang on a car. I dunno, maybe I just remember the old days too fondly. Like when the NHRA was trying to get the street racers to take it to the track instead of worring about timing the rounds around commercials. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message -------------------------------- #3 Report Post Old 06-13-2006, 08:34 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by berwickturbot What is the acceptable range at Idle? Oscillating under 35, and over 600. The ecm tries to *average*, about .5v so as to achieve an average AFR of 14.7:1. ------------------------------- #3 Report Post Old 06-15-2006, 05:02 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by WLDWST The general automotive enthusiast will again be painted black by the careless actions of the ignorant few. Nothing new there, just another case of villianization. Whip the herd into a fury, and then turn lose on the *catch of the day*. The US used to have some organizations that tried to cut down on street racing, but they've gone. The NHRA is now just into timing the rounds to accomodate commercials, and have forgotten their purpose. Ditto, on the above reply, BTW. Reply With Quote #6 Report Post Old 06-15-2006, 04:31 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Ttype83 What I think would help is locals helping setup weekend racing events in larger parking lots, etc and teach this kids, rules and safety. I remember some town was doing this..not remember where Give them a place they can go thrash their car and have fun safely... *Locals*?. Local government?. Liability kills that. The SCCA used to be that way (*road racing* in parking lots), but like the NHRA, they're about collecting fees, and letting the rich make the rules nowadays. Reply With Quote ------------------------ #3 Report Post Old 06-17-2006, 04:35 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by nathanstaaz at what psi is a 3 bar map sensor necissary and why, and what will happen if you push the limit with a two bar IMO, 16 PSI. You can run 30 PSI of boost and just use a 2 bar MAP. The problem is that you peg the MAP at ~15 PSI, so that means you have to have all the fuel in by 15 PSI so that there's enough there to run 30. So you wind up generating a very rich condition at 15, and then it leans out as it goes to 30. Within in this overly rich area, you can trigger detonation from being to rich. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 06-17-2006, 03:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by nathanstaaz but will the car work correctly if i put a 3 bar in? If the tune is right, a 3 bar will take you to 30 PSI of boost. ------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 06-08-2006, 10:36 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Sports= Oprah for men, IMO. Now Pinks, that's for men. LOL j/k #9 Report Post Old 06-08-2006, 11:13 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper lol @ the Oprah referance..... Should I have mentioned the Overhaulin, to Martha Stewart connection?.... Reply With Quote #11 Report Post Old 06-08-2006, 12:03 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper both of those crusty bitches should be forced to fight to the death, with the winner put on a desert island to suffer and die a slow death.... You need to get in more direct contect with your inner feelings, and begin to express them in a PC manner.... j/k Reply With Quote ------------------------- Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 06-21-2006, 03:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Grainger, makes a 0-cracking valve the removes any doubt about the stock PCV not seating properly from time to time. Fullthrottle used to also carry one. As bad as oil can damage an engine, it's cheap insurance, IMO, to add the check valve. Reply With Quote -------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 06-23-2006, 03:30 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by cyabye I think that if a woman demands child support from a man, she must prove that the baby is his. In some states, if the father accepts any responsibility for a child, even if it turns out later not to be his, he might have to pay support. Isn't it *nice* that the welfare system is so broken, that now the innocent are treated as thou they are quilty?....... ----------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-24-2006, 01:32 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 A Passing.... America lost one of it's Proud and Few, several days ago. A sister her brother, a wife her husband, a son a father, and for many others a true friend. While I had only known him for about 7 years, when your waiting for donors, there's lots of time to talk. Often it can be just idle chit chat, but every once in a while, the conversation would be about who you really are.... At times it was about confession, at times about tough times, at times about life changing events...... He'd been on one of those God Forsaken Marine Fire Bases during the 68 Tet Offensive. He wasn't there to collect Metals, as he had turned more then just a few, down, "he was just doing his job" (his words). No Heroics, no fanfare, *just* a Marine, doing what he was trained to do, for a country he loved. After his time in Nam, he spent the better part of his life as one of America's fighting men. He wound up needing a heart, and was on the waiting list for a donor when I meet him. After his surgery, and within the first few dosings of Immuno suppressive drugs, he turned allergic to them. I went back to ICU to visit after him, after his surgery, but was told that no visitors were being allowed. Several weeks later is when I got my transplant, so I wound up being in ICU while he was still there. On the 3rd day post lung transplant, it's time to get up and start walking. It was then that I first saw him, after his surgery. He was red as a beet, and in a Coma. For the entire time, I was back in ICU, whenever I went past his room, I'd touch his room's glass, it was just the only way to *let him know*, I was there. It took several months, they did get him up, and amongst the living. So he looked to be on the mend. There was another problem thou, during a heart transplant it's extremely easy for the kidneys to shut down, or be damaged, and his were. So he began Dialysis. After a few weeks, his sister was tested, and turned out to be a viable donor. So she donated one of her kidneys to him. In the following years, we *touched* base with each other, when we'd be in for follow up check-ups or with some problem(s). His wife was a foreigner (when they married), and we just allows *happened* to visit her favorite restaurant, whenever possible. He, and his wife spoke several languages, fluently. And it was one of those very rare marriages, where you could see them both *light up*, when either would enter the room, and be with the other. In the end, it was a simple *IV*, which for some reason, or maybe it was just coincidence, that a fatal heart attack, would take him. He's one of the guys, that'll never forget. The memory of him, and those like him, never should be forgotten. May you Rest In Peace, John. Your Friend, Bruce. Last edited by Bruce : 06-24-2006 at 01:34 PM. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 06-25-2006, 01:45 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Just being a new owner, I'd say visit the Library Forum, and get familiar with the car. There's alot there. While 11's are nice, IMO, doing so safely means looking at the whole car. Again, IMO, that means being able to stop, handle well at high speeds, and corner. Part of the problem arises with just what the car can do, it's not at all difficult to surprise folks, when you apprear where they're not expecting you, and at times that means having to be able to get out of a Bozo's way. As far as converters go, try and get a ride in as many different cars as you can, there's a huge difference in how they *feel*. IMO, the Yank Converters are the only way to go, but they're $$. If you want to do 11's on pump gas, you'll need at least 60 PPH injectors, and alky injection. Alkycontrol.com makes a sweet unit. And you have to have more pump then what a drag only car would get by with. I'm running a double pumper, some will say it's overkill, but I ran 28 PSI on pump gas for years, I did pop a headgasket after ~3 years, and so I backed down to 26 PSI. Turbo wise, there are a few options... A meet a guy at BG this year from FL that was running a 3255, that was impressive, IMO. As mentioned without a great tune, you're just be whistling Dixie, instead of going fast. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote --------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-26-2006, 04:31 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Rust Have you ever noticed how at times a car goes from more or less being solid to the floor pans rusting through in just a year?. In scraping out the interior of my project car, I finally saw why..... The rust was between the sound deadening, and the floor pan, and it was rusting from the inside out! !!. The underneath of the car, was solid, and without a trace of rust. Yet, inside there was some really heavy rusting going on. So this lightening project may have well saved the car... I'd seen several G-Bodies *die* from the rusted floor pan syndrome, but it never occured to me that the rust was starting from the inside. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 06-26-2006, 08:30 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Noob It wasn't fun doing it, but now I'm glad I caught it before it became a MAJOR issue. The reason for this post was for people to maybe check before it's too late. Your pics show exactly what I was talking about. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote -------------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 06-27-2006, 01:36 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Anybody that has done a disk brake conversion, did you use your factory port. valve or an aftermarket one or none? The factory one, is a combination valve. If you're going to start changing things, then block it off, COMPLETELY. Have a brass plug made for were the sliding pressure differential swich goes, and then silver solder it in place. Then plug the end were the plunger exited the housing. Next, is just drilling thur the knee over valving (just run a 1/8" drill in thur where the rear line exits the housing. Then try your new combo out. IF, and only IF, you have one end lock up prematurely get a proportioning valve. Find a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE parking lot, and start slowly doing progressively harder stops, up to and including a full panic both feet on the pedal manuever. Then once you make whatever changes to perfect things, try it all again on a real moist street. Changing front tire sizes is an excellent way of balancing out brakes. My 02 Camaro set up, with 235/40, and 285/40s works perfectly, without adding anything to complicate the system. Simplicity is the key to design on a hotrod (just so long as it's complicated enough). Sorry I missed your original posting..... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote --------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 06-28-2006, 09:25 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM I will agree simply becuase I wouldn't go into another non english speaking country and expect them to have to speak english to communicate with me Twice I've been in that situation, well three times if you count Canada. The instant you get off the beaten trail of the tourists, few people will make any effort to help you navigate the language barrier. When I was in the Service they were very clear about even thou you might be on active duty when you step off base, you're subject to the local laws, however strange they may be. It would only make sense, but there are still people continually thinking being an American means their something special overseas. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote ------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-13-2006, 08:26 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Seating Well, I finally found a set of Lear front and rear seats for my car, and got them in yesterday. What a difference..... I might redrill the mounts to move them back a little more, but for me they are 1,000x more comfortable then the 87 seats. With the bolsters adjusted up, they really keep you in place when running through the twisties. Obviously, seating varies by person, but these give ya an option that looks factory. The leather is dark gray, with light gray fabric, while not a perfect match color wise, they look prety good to me. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 06-28-2006, 06:12 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 That cushion under the thighs is height adj.. With it raised up even a little your butt is located by the side adj bolsters, and the thigh support. Cranking the adj. just doesn't show in the pics, or how they help to locate you. --------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 06-24-2006, 05:04 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by D's89IROCZ I am hopeing to get my V-8 as fast as some of the V-6's here First is getting a Herb Adams, Reese bar rear suspension kit, and then installing a Turbo Regal Powertrain, ... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 06-25-2006, 01:25 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by D's89IROCZ HAHAHAHA , funny I am thinking all BMR ( relocated TQ arm ) Relaction brakcets , Kenny brown Subframe connectors , TKO600 5 speed . Forest and Forest custom 9 " . I should be getting closr with that ;) Oops, forgot, need to do a coil-over front end. Make the car light, and the subframe connectors aren't near as important. FWIW, I did a 84 'Bird, that was kinda nice. Trouble is making a 3rd Gen light means you wind up with even a worse front end weight bias. Oh, and with a strut front end, you'll never get a decent camber curve, I finally wound up doing a hybreed to get what I want. A 84 Stang that'll have a TR drivetrain in it. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 ---------------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 06-24-2006, 05:00 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by D's89IROCZ They said to look for a gent named Bruce . he could fill me in on all of it . I would really like to keep the 165 ECM , as I have to get into repinning and al that stuff. I have a Prominator PRO tuneing unit and tunnercat software ,etc. I did publish a pretty complete listing for the 808 code at DIY-EFI, some years ago. I never really played much with tuning the 808s. What I typically do, when experimenting with different ecms is build a little adapter like this. That way I can keep everything plug and play, and not tie myself to what might be a problem. Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 06-25-2006, 02:03 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by D's89IROCZ So what really goes on with it . You just change the file in the chip ? Like can I upload it into one of the 8 spaces I have on the prominator PRO. Kinda like that ? I just heard it was an alternative to running a 749 ECM . I am trying to avoid repinning and all that stuff. trying NOT to go with a fast or DFI setup $$$$$$ . Already have alot in this now to though ( maybe 575 ?) I can run any ecm, and then just plug in any other one. The prominator allows you to run 8 different calibrations. Which is great for doing back to back evaulations for particular areas, during developement. To run a 808 setup is going to mean having to move some pins around. ie the 165 is MAF, and the 808 is MAP based. IMO, it would be easier to make up an adapter with the necessary pin changes, so that you can swap back and forth. Then set up 2 ecms, one for each system/ set-up. When you're doing a street car, you have to have absolute reliability, so that on a really really bad day, you can just reach over, swap ecms and be on your way again. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 06-28-2006, 01:21 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by D's89IROCZ :o hmmm it's sounding like more of a problem then going straight to a 749 I just figured it was a matter of switching the wires off of the MAF to a MAP sensor and away you go . Question ... why would I want to swap back and forth to ECM 's ? Can;t I just have a mild tune in one to always revert back to ? I am kinda a newbie to all this and my skills are lacking . Maybe I should just go to a fat setup ( don't want to at all ) I've found (after spending alot of time), that it's always easiest to have a know runs well set up as a back up when playing with ecms. Yes, you probably could get by with just swapping a few wires, but what happens if you develope a chip with a hiccup in it?, and you only find the hiccup 100 miles from home?. As a beginner, you need to think of the absolutely worst case scenarios, so that you don't get straned. A know get me home chip, is something for someone with some experience to rely on. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 ----------------------------- 07-01-2006, 04:23 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Irp What a nice track! !!! Was just spectating, but it was a pleasure. With the *given* rain, while things got wet, the drainage was so that it really wasn't a concern. The Snack Food was even cooked, and while typcially $$, good tasting. The pit, spectator areas, are just so large that it really didn't like many people were even there, but once you started looking at *who* was there, just about all the regulars, made it. Lots of restaurants, and motels, more spread out then BS, but 2-3 of anything you could want food wise. The Tai One On, had excellent Tai food, FWIW. If you stay at the Holiday Inn, by the airport be advised the motel is right under one of the landing paths...... So depending on which runway is in use you might not get much sleep. I sure hope it catchs on, it was nice... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 07-02-2006, 05:01 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by DCVING 6 We had a good time as well. It was nice to meet you Bruce and thanks for helping me get in touch with Bob. Ahh, so this is *who* you are, Nice being able to put a face with a screen name. You're welcome. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 07-02-2006, 05:50 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Grumpy how was the turnout I'm not in the loop to have the actual attendance numbers, but from what I saw it was great. Unlike BG, the track is HUGE, and things spread out, so the place didn't look crowded, there were a lot of people there. I'd fully expect next year to be even better, once word gets out about how nice the place is, and well run the track seemed to be. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 07-02-2006, 09:40 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by WH1 Did they ever get the track to hook? You tune the car to the track. If it's hot with intermittent rains, no track will be at it's best. It'll all be rather moot soon, as Traction Control, and Launch Modes get more popular, and sorted out. It's almost surprising how few cars are running it. Once you figure out the optimum amount of slippage you combo wants, and dial that into the ecm, it'll allow folks to isolate suspenion tuning from trying to get the car to launch tune. I do know Mike Licht *sponsored*, preping the track for the later runs on Sat., just as I left. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 07-02-2006, 10:04 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GNRegal Does anyone have a count of how many vendors were there? Also anyone have a total race car count? Is it true that there were no TFS cars entered in the class? Think I read there was only 30 show cars. Any and all updates would be appreciated. I don't know about the count of vendors, but it seemed to be about the same group, that was at BG, minus Casper's. Cotton's, Full Throttle, National Dent, Tom (the StageII vendor), H and R, TBs.com, to name a few. 30?, looked more then that. What's needed is not worrying about who and what was at this one, but getting people to attend future TR events, or we won't have any. *We* all need to start attending more events, if even to watch to keep our community going. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote ----------------------------- #1 Report Post Old 07-03-2006, 05:42 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Stock Down Pipe When does the stock down pipe housing on a TR become a restriction?. Does porting it out help?. Does immediately flaring out to a 3" pipe, help?. Any experiences appreciated. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 07-03-2006, 05:45 PM JayC's Avatar JayC JayC is offline Administrator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In The Ghetto Posts: 1,051 Send a message via Skype? to JayC When the 3 inch downpipes first came out for the Buicks, most cars faster than high 12s were benefiting from replacing the stock downpipe with 3 inch replacements and keeping the stock elbows. __________________ Jay Jay Carter ---------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 07-05-2006, 01:04 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 It just continues..... Moi, aggravating someone?. Several months ago I wound up running a S/C Mustang. 3 runs, 3 wins. On the 3rd run, I let him have the go, before I even left, and I still motored past him.... Just so happens that he lives between where my stang is stored, and Chuck's house where we work on it. Today a gutted Stang roller is sitting at the other guy's house. It's in rougher shape then mine, but looks like the beginnings of a race car.. In checking with rumor control, it seems he didn't like being beat. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 07-05-2006, 01:52 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Ttype83 Some people just can't take getting beat and have to think that they are king of the hill Someone is always going to be faster..enjoy want you have. Back in the early 70's I learned that. *King Willie*, had a Keith Black powered Superbird...... Heck, I didn't know it wasn't stock, LOL. Talk about watching tail lights disappear!. Then there was a webered Pantera on Whitter Blvd., another case of disappearing tail lights. Man did that thing scream!. Yep, enjoying what cha got is the name of the game. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 --------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 10-21-2005, 03:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by gnxtc2 Guys with the AC Delete Plate a few questions: What did you do with the extra wire that is part of the oval wire loom? Did anyone make/makes a piece that will continue across the windshield to help with water running down the windshield. This piece will also make the car appear finished. I bought Casper's alternator *cure kit*, his new injector wiring harness, and a few other bits, and completely redid the harness. Did away with a few connectors/ splices, and now have a completely trouble free electrical system. Not that I know of. *Finished*, what does that mean?....... ------------------------ Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 07-02-2006, 12:34 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by tom robison i bought it a indy on fri and i am having trouble acessing the first for settings. i have a turbo 400 in the car and none of the linkages are hooked to the colum. my direct scan says it is in 3/4 gear all the time and will not go to park on the screen when i twist the colum. Is there something on the tcc harness i need to jumper out ? The 3-4th gear switches are hydralic. Without having those inputs, you're going to lose being able to have a high gear RPM timing drop. Sounds like an electrical problem with the P/N deal, need to get a wiring diagram out and see what's fubar'd with that (ie it's a mechanical switch). __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 07-02-2006, 04:41 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by tom robison thanks bruce, i looked at a diagram and it shows the 3rd and 4th gear switch as a n/c presure switch, so i think if i ground the wire for 4th gear and run the other wire for 3rd gear through a n/c switch on the shifter that opens in 3rd gear i should be able to have high gear retard on the timing and reach the other paramiters of the chip. The shifter has a place for 3rd and 4th gear switches?, which one is it?. Does it have a P/N switch?. If so then I'd rewire the ecm to look at that P/N switch, also. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 -------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 07-10-2006, 07:49 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Any place pre intake valve will do. Per Obert, any fluid should genrally be considered as being a gas. Meaning it's the process of heating whatever fluid on the back of a ~600dF intake valve will turn it into a gaseous state, by the time the valve opens, and the exhaust *flashback* atomizes it. Just get the distribution, equal...... You can enter the manifold anywhere, it's where the nozzle(s) is (are) that's important... And as you raise the pressure, the mist becomes finer, and thus more likely to be evenly distributed, if doing it internal to the manifold. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote --------------------------- #18 Report Post Old 09-20-2005, 06:03 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by John Pearcy I found that Kirban had 5 left at $75.00 and matched his price accordingly, I only had 3 left so what was I suppsed to do?. You could have sold one of them for the price you'd PREVIOUSLY AGREED TOO!. What is so complicated about keeping your word?. If you wanted to charge $1,000 a piece for the others, that would have been fine, but you changed you mind AFTER agreeing to the terms of the sale. You sold out your word for $50. In some circles people see a man's word as his more valuable assist. You had your choice of being known for having sold something at a good price, or having this happen. It was your call, and it looks like, at least to me, you made the wrong one. Thanks, for showing how important customer relations are with you. I truely hope that $50 meant so meant so much to you, that is was worth going back on your word (previously quoted price), in the long term. BTW, thanks for asking about *what I was suppsed to do?*. Maybe, if you'd asked that first, you would have saved all this negative publicity. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 07-15-2006, 05:19 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Too much timing can leave you with a false lean. A WB is only sensing O2, and is not the perfect mixture indicator. Timing will effect indicated AFR. Not to mention is seems that some of the fuels *out there* generate less ash, then the you might expect. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote ------------------------ Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 07-15-2006, 07:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Vacuum 6 8 bolt heads can use stock rockers and 14 bolt heads cant? I still dont get it...why do they have 8 and 14 bolt heads? If you look at the stock 8 bolt heads, you can see how there are 4 head bolts per combustion chamber. With the 14 bolt heads, there are 6 headbolts per combustion chamber. 6 bolts means more clamping force. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 05:51 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Fuelie600 .......and the need for a stronger bottom end! Just thought I'd throw that in. That depends on the tune, and the HP wanted. You can run 14 bolt heads and all stock components (Other then the rockers). (Oops, I was thinking about block wise). __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 07:33 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Fuelie600 While this is true Bruce, Why would someone install GN1's if not trying to extract some serious HP. I'd personally stay with ported irons if wanting a milder combo. W/O a safety valve, I'd opt for a better than stock short block. Weight. I'm planning on using something along the lines of GN1's, with a mild combo. Oh, and while HP is an overwhelming concern for some, Torque is the main concern for others. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 #13 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 09:10 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Fuelie600 You know best What I mean is there's more then one way to skin a cat. While others are going for RPM, and HP, which can get $$$, I'm going to try for more airflow at lower RPM (big ports, lots of cam), and generating lots of torque. After doing some research on the 100%VE thread, and *the graph*, and seeing what VE does, as rpm build, I want to do more of a *tractor* engine. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #20 Report Post Old 07-17-2006, 11:59 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Archie Simply put, a stage 1 block is the same as a stage 2, it just hasent had the extra bolts drilled, but can. StageI has a wet sump system, StageII is Dry Sump. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 07-17-2006, 05:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Another tech thread that I'll start, that is over my head. Hey, the VE thread was really interesting, IMO. For the longest time, I'd wondered about how/ why I'd seen some of the numbers I have, and that thread splained all that... From said link: *The kinetic energy of the resonant pulses can be harnessed to fill the engine cylinder at volumetric efficiencies up to 130%.* Obviously talking about ME VE there, And thems the same two guys that invented the MS. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 07-17-2006, 05:11 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Bruce, if you want a tractor-pulling low end torque, try typing in a high intake runner legnth, see the gains?? I guess hood clearance is an issue, maybe a new intake shape should be tried. Three runners on each side, criss-crossing thru each other going to a common, larger ring shaped plenum, above the valve covers, like a Yamaha v6 used in the SVO Tarus, or other similar designs to increase legnth, while avoiding sharp turns. Imagine a ring shaped plenum, complete 360, with throttle body in the front. It would be above the fuel rails and the valve covers, with intake runners going from the inner wall to heads. I see a lot of factory set-ups like this. I guess I should draw a pic, or something. 30" intake runner legnth would hit the 2nd harmonics at 3916-4752RPMs with a pulse strength of +10%. 3rd harmonics @ 2942-3363RPMs with 7% pulse strength. I doubt if we could stuff a 30" intake runner in our cars, maybe with a twin turbo set-up and throttle bodys far away from the action?? Criss/crossing the runners thru each other would add legnth without really adding width to the whole deal. Many factory intakes are looking like this on "V" configuration engines. Is this topic super-boring? I have an M+A sitting in the barn... Like JC mentioned, it'll probably get the runner cut treatment. In the TR's I think it gets rather moot, since there is sooooooo much intake air inertia. While pulses are like waves, and require not much motion, *we* have to worry about PMP (peak manifold pressure) for stuffing the cylinder full. I took and made a none air gap manifold from a stock GN intake, and then later reduced the runner runner length, and made more HP. The thing with tuned runners is that they only work for a limited range, and that's at the detrement of every where else. With as wide of power band as a TR has, so far I haven't seen them actually work, in my experimenting. Super-boring is when you're just sleeping though the postings, and not trying to think them through, IMO. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 07-17-2006, 05:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr BMW has a variable legnth intake runner! It changes shape with RPM. Pretty tricky stuff. Not just a two step. My 92 Protege had a dual lenght runner intake (stock). BTW, Mazda had some really wild adj lenght runners in some of the race car rotary stuff, a few eons ago. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 07-17-2006, 05:21 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Little something about o2 sensors, differences between V.E. between individual cylinders, and the fueling correction algorithm. Ya, all you need thou, is a few dozen coding geniues to get something like that to work. If you look at the 94/95 3800 code, they have some interesting stuff going on in there.... While accounting for differences in VE is one thing, individual timing, injector timing (via load, and RPM), and miss detection, are even cooler, IMO. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote ---------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 15 votes, 1.00 average. Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 09-04-2005, 05:33 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Lowering fuel costs...... With the current situation as it is, this might be helpful. And I invite anyones input for any tricks they've found (not strictly TR related). First off, just like in tuning you have to know what your *baseline* is. Before making any changes, be absolutely sure what you're getting for mileage in the way you normally drive. TRs were never meant to be economy cars, and they really stretched the limits on how little *emission* related equipment they have. So most of the nitty gritty tuning *stuff* is reserved for the chip guys. However, there are some things you can do to make sure you're getting the best possible mileage. For openers, it can't be repeated often enough to check your tire pressures, and if you're not racing, using some *harder* smaller sizes aren't out of the question. Shorter sidewalls, and higher then *normal* tire pressures, reduce the rolling resistance of a tire. If you're carrying a 200 lb stereo, that takes fuel to lug around. Not so much in cruise, but in acclerating it. Front end alignments are another cause of wasting gas, too much camber, and/or toe in causes the tires to scuff across the road surface instead of rolling over it. *Often*, you need only a slight amount of toe-in to reduce the scuffing, all you need to *really* account for is the slack/ear in the tierod ends, ball joints, etc., so that the front ties when they actually are going down the road are parrarel. For some cars, acclerating more then at a snail's pace can improve mileage, it takes a calibrated foot, but you might try moderate acclerations and see which way you go. For the chip guys, there's a few tweaks you can do. Min the MAF, and TPS related Accleration Enrichment. Raise the TPS AE enables. Add a few degrees to the Burst Knock Routine, so that you can lower the AE even more.... Then you have option of running open loop, at leaner then Stoich, ie 15.5 or 16:1 AFRs, but you really should be using a WB to make sure of exactly what AFR you are running. A lean cruise can be really effective at highway speeds. While not a real biggie, there is deccleration enleanment, and DFCO. You can play with the enable, disable RPM levels, and *maybe* find something there. For the real guru types, it takes an incredibly high level of resolution to be able to fine tune, the *normal* driving areas, to make a real difference in MPG (MAP based systems). Then, IMO, the LV8 calculation while functional, again, IMO, really could use a multiplier factor based on gear selection, or VSS (actually even a MAP system can benefit from that). Then, there's the subject of Octane. Some cars and trucks get better mileage on 87, then 85, and then poorer mileage on 91. You have to try them all to see which is the most cost effective for you. HTH Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 04-28-2006, 12:06 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 A friend designed a new program for me, where by I can see the instanteous, and average MPG for my GN..... Good Grief Charlie Brown........ The old addage about the leaner the AFR, the more timing you need is just complete nonsense! ! !!..... It may be true for a application with a weak ignition system, but in the case of my 6 coil DIS, it's shear nonsense. Some months ago, when I got my Alkycontrol pretty well dialed in I started experimenting with running 87 Octane. So I had the WOT and PE sections of the calibration really close, and today started in earnest on working on MPG. In 3 chips, I reduced the timing 9d, and VE 2-3%. The net result was increasing my MPG by 3 MPG, at normal cruising speeds, and more at around town speeds. Things I also noted: Granny accleration got the best average MPG. Don't try accclerating at just below the PE enable, that really ruins the MPG. Even moderate accleration hurts compared to granny driving. Done correctly you can keep the MPG penalty for 65+ to a min.. There does come a point were the areo loadings will really start to count, but it's higher then any posted speed limit that I know off... A GN will run happily, at 16.5:1 AFRs (possibly higher, but, I haven't tried that lean yet) when in cruise, without a hiccup, IF you have a good enough ignition system. BTW, in reducing the cruise timing, the oil pressure has come up signifigantly.... If my code wasn't as granular as it is, the MPG increase might not have been as great. Up until today, I had tried tuning for min TPS, MAP, coolant temps., in the past, but being able to see the MPG in real time, is amazin...... I wouldn't have thought a 2d change in timing would make any noticeable change in MPG. BTW, I did the MPG runs on the same road, in both directions to account for any wind, or elevation changes in the roadway...... Oh, and I picked up 5 PSI of oil pressure..... Last edited by Bruce : 04-28-2006 at 12:44 PM. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 04-29-2006, 10:15 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Gary Wells I am sure that this does not refer to anybody here, but one would be suprised at some of the various methods that people use to verify that the tank has the same amount in it that it did before starting the test. That's why having this software which does the calculations in about real time, is so handy, it gets rid of any fueling errors. While I haven't done a full tank in one run, to calibrate the software, it's good enough to let me see how the changes I'm making work out. I have the inj cal. pretty close, but I need a road trip to fully optimise it. BTW, at WOT in 1st gear, the MPG drops to about 3......... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 04-30-2006, 03:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Otto J Bruse is this based off of vacuum? I THINK that is how most car that had or have mileage gauges calculated mpg No, it uses Injector Pulse Widths, and the VSS pulses. As an example: At 60 MPH the PW typcially is 3.2msec (32 ten thousandths of a second). So in one minute of driving that would be 3.2 secs of injector *ON* time. Also, at 60 MPH, there are 2,002 pulses per mile. If you know the injectors flow rate, then you know how many PPH of fuel your using. Then the program can look at the sampling time, and figure out the instantaneous MPG, or the average MPG numbers. I rounded the numbers off just to make them easy to work with. The PW calculation is yes, rounded off, and the VSS resolution is about 2' so there is some error, but for just doing comparisons, the error *factor* is meaningless, since it's just a comparison, in this case. Reply With Quote Old 04-30-2006, 04:19 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Otto J Pretty neat.Anything can be figured out with a mathmatical equation It really is. And what used to talk hundreds of miles of driving and many tanks of gas, can now be done in an afternoon. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 05-06-2006, 12:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Now it's really getting to be fun!, and have some serious pay offs........ I'm down to 30d timing, 17.5:1 AFR, and have picked up MPG, and Oil Pressure. I'm now running right at 10 more PSI of oil pressure while in cruise mode. Hopefully, tomorrow, I'll have the oil temp guage wired up, and be able to also compare oil temps., while tuning. Oh, and now I have things swapped around so that I can run fuel changes on my ecm bench, and see what sort of results, I might expect. It still takes running the car to verify things, but it again saves fuel and wear and tear on the car thissa way.. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 04:07 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 At the 17's:1 AFR's, the EGTs are taking a turn upward, about 1,200dF. Also, I've just switched to running Shell Rotella T. I had been running about 70 K/Pa, with the Tornado, and now with the above changes now, the MAP is closer to 80 K/Pa. Normal MATs, ie ambient plus ~20dF. It's kinda sorta like, the turbo while not to the stage of making any real boost is getting closer to being *spooled*. Needless to say getting from 80 K/Pa, to 101 K/Pa, and making any boost happens as fast as you can think about it. This with a TA-62.. Here's a snippet of a datalog..... EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB 00:04:23 54 1675 72 26 182 85 27.8 3.51 18.2 00:04:23 54 1650 72 26 182 85 27.8 3.51 18.0 00:04:23 54 1675 73 27 182 85 27.8 3.57 18.0 00:04:23 54 1675 76 28 182 85 27.1 3.75 18.0 00:04:23 54 1675 77 28 182 85 27.8 3.85 17.8 00:04:23 53 1675 77 29 182 85 27.1 3.94 18.1 00:04:23 53 1675 78 29 182 85 26.8 4.03 18.1 00:04:23 53 1650 80 30 182 85 25.7 4.12 18.3 00:04:23 53 1675 79 31 182 85 26.4 4.15 18.4 00:04:23 53 1700 80 31 182 85 26.0 4.24 18.9 00:04:23 53 1650 81 32 182 85 25.0 4.33 18.5 00:04:23 53 1650 83 32 182 85 24.3 4.43 18.1 00:04:23 53 1650 83 33 182 85 23.9 4.43 18.1 00:04:23 54 1650 83 32 182 85 23.9 4.43 18.0 00:04:23 53 1650 85 33 182 85 22.9 4.43 18.1 Here's a lil more data, 87 Octane, ~8 PSI, 21d timing 15:1 AFRs and not tick of knock Alky off EngRun Mph Rpm KPa Tps CtsF MatF Spkf PW WB Rtd 00:09:36 69 3125 163 49 181 77 20.8 9.16 15.3 0.0 00:09:36 69 3100 166 49 181 77 20.4 9.43 15.4 0.0 00:09:36 69 3025 165 49 181 77 20.8 9.28 15.3 0.0 00:09:36 70 2975 168 48 181 77 20.8 9.28 15.8 0.0 00:09:36 70 2975 160 48 181 77 21.5 9.09 15.5 0.0 00:09:36 70 2950 163 48 181 77 21.1 9.00 15.0 0.0 00:09:36 70 2925 163 48 181 77 21.1 9.09 15.2 0.0 00:09:36 71 2850 163 48 181 77 21.5 8.94 15.3 0.0 00:09:36 71 2775 162 47 181 77 21.5 9.31 15.6 0.0 00:09:36 71 2700 165 47 181 77 21.5 9.16 15.8 0.0 00:09:36 71 2675 163 47 181 77 21.8 9.34 15.8 0.0 00:09:36 71 2675 162 47 181 77 21.8 9.19 15.3 0.0 00:09:36 71 2650 160 46 181 77 22.2 9.09 15.5 0.0 00:09:36 72 2625 162 45 181 77 22.2 9.09 15.2 0.0 00:09:36 72 2625 159 45 181 77 22.5 9.09 15.5 0.0 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 07:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Otto J I do believe honda has been known to run some of their cars that lean Much leaner, on the order of 22/ 23:1, currently. They didn't spend the millions on a new WB that now reads to 30:1 for no reason. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #20 Report Post Old 05-08-2006, 08:06 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Otto J Damn thats lean,But them Honda boys seem to have some seriously reliable setups Good engineering, and the right computer code. Some of the import mags, have posted some of the finer points of their code, and it seems to be really good stuff. Oddly thou Hondata, and a few of the tuner editors seem kinda strange in how they do things. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 07-23-2006, 11:14 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 231v6 HOLLY ISH BRUCE i was just on your homepage looking @ your pics. where in the ell did you get that fine arss intake manifold #8 (you know the black one) WOW!!! HOW MUCH?:anbet: Bought it off the Parts for Sale Forum, at a Buick Board. It was expensive, ie I forget the exact number but it was over a grand. As Jay mentioned, not many people liked them... But, I have some serious changes I'm making, and some code to maybe make it more manageble. Funny you should mention it, yesterday I dropped it off for the reworking..... It will be seriously different internally, and externally......... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 07-23-2006, 01:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JayC I'd recommend trying to figure out some way to reinforce the top plenum if you can. Another area you should look at is where the injector bungs screw in. Thats a major source of leakage. Or keep it from backfiring?.... Reinforcing the lid shouldn't be a problem. I hadn't heard of that before, thanks. I saw that the first time I mocked it together. Mine will be vastly different in that reguard. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote --------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 09-26-2005, 07:04 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo nasty Thanx guys.... Would the LS1 brakes require bigger wheels to clear? I don't know, for sure. But, the 1LE and LS1 rotors are both 12". It wasn't *that* close with 16s, but some of the 15 have weird cross sections. Reply With Quote --------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 10-01-2006, 11:07 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by EightSecV6 View Post The top one is DOT and the bottom one is not. Some fast,heavy cars racing REAL 10.5's and not W's usually elect to run the radial slick (bottom pic) because the sidewall is stiffer and you can hit it harder without "shaking" it on the launch and they are much more stable on the big end. Outlaw 10.5" cars run a 33"w tire which is HUGE compared to the non W. ????? The slicks I've been on have always hunted at the top end, heck some as early as mid track. The street MT's I have (but haven't run yet), have a regular side wall construction. BTW, what do you mean by W's?. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 ---------------------------------- #2 Report Post Old 06-04-2006, 06:54 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Would that be an indication of the turbo "crossover" point? At full kill mode, what is the highest VE you experience? Up to 100%? Over that? 110%? Nope. If one's to believe Alan Lockheed, a good turbo set-up can reach 120% VE, and the exceptional upwards of 150%. While one can use the ideal gas law as a model for the math, even small errors can stack up. For tuning they really don't matter much, but when you want to get into the science of it all, it does matter. If anyone wanted to accurately monitor the true airflow, one would use a MAF, and then compare that to the VE table to see if they were in the neighborhood, math wise. The current guestimations, are rather lacking, since they assume injectors are always linear, and just reverse the PWs backward to estimate air used, and thus VE. Some of the current MAFs are light years ahead of what was in use just a few years ago, it'd be interesting to datalog one, and really see what some of the TR VE's really are. All the above is, IMO. *All* it takes is an accurate gm/sec reading, and knowing the engine displacement to get the real numbers. I tried at one time to get some dyno numbers from anyone to see where they were, to no avail. Maybe someone this time around has some lab type air flow numbers from a dyno... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 08:05 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI I doubt you will see VE numbers over 100 with a turbo buick. Then it's not even a true VE table. So much for their claim about how new and improved the system is. If it was truely using the Ideal Gas Law, then it would reflect the true VE, and one wouldn't have to fudge numbers (ie use less then 100). Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 08:06 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr 20PSI of exhaust back pressure with 22PSI of manifold pressure makes sense to me that more CF of air could fit into a given engine than the actual displacement. That'd be around 110% VE. I believe this would be impossible without a turbo. I think reaching the crossover point is essential to going over 100% VE . Nope, the latest NASCAR engines are all over 106% VE. Rumor has it that some are hitting 108%. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 08:11 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim GM does this on newer 3800's. Use MAF/MAP to compare each other. I am not positive if they run the car speed density and verify w/MAF or run MAF and verify w/MAP, but I do know they use both to check each other. If one winds up out of whack, it codes and goes by the other Bruce, maybe you can find someone with the code and see which. ANd if SD w/MAF you can correlate VE to AF numbers since you can hack the code apart pretty easily now. I realize it wouldnt be the same as a TR, but it might give you an idea where things should fall displacement wise. They run on MAF, and use MAP for the diagnostics. In some default modes, they then switch over to MAP mode. The code stuff isn't, *pretty easy*. Not to mention from what I've heard, the OBDII is alot more complex.. It's still be nice if someone posted what they saw on a dyno (airflow wise). Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 01:46 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr It seems the fast video does not agree there? I really don't care, just want my car tuned right. If you study the matter, the it would make good sense, that by using a fully optimized engine package, that for a given *small* range, that an engine should be able to use the inertia of the incoming air, to *stuff* a little more air into an engine, then what the displacement is. *right* varies by what someone considers good enough. The closer the tune is, the better the car will run. While some only car for WOT, an engine operates in conditions other then that, so for best life, the tune needs to be close in all respects, cold run, hot restart, AE, etc., etc.. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 01:54 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr So If I see my current tune with VE table going no higher than 90, I should not be worried? Seems a little far off from the FAST guys opinion. If you see erroneous entries, then all the math involved is off. For any of the fuel/ timing calculations to be *right*, it means all the entries need to be right. Once you start fudging numbers to get the car to run, then the tune is in fact off. The problem with some of *this* stuff is that, some of the people that write code, are trying to *please all the people all the time*, and at times ignore the engine.... After all, an aftermarket ecm has to be marketable, and that means catering to alot of people that will settle for alot less then what correct is. You're one of the few that even seems to care, as to what's really going on. Hopefully, there will be more like you, and the aftermarket folks wake up to the real needs of their customers (well IMO). Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 03:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI Apparantly, I am one of those guys that falls into your last category. I don't know too much about the Ideal Gas Law. Because of this, I don't understand why a turbocharged motor would be 20-40% more efficient than a Nascar engine. I have tuned quite a few TR's and usually see VE numbers in the 70-90 range at WOT. A NASCAR engine *only* has 14.7 PSI to fill the cylinders, a Turbo motor has 2x that amount of pressure filling the cylinders. While you might see VE table entries of 70-90%, that doesn't mean you're using the *correct* values. You can use values that work, but that doesn't mean they're correct. Just as an example, if you tell the ecm the engine's displacement is 1/2 of actual, and use an injector value of 1/2, the ecm will come up with an approximate value, that's close enough to work. But, one item that will probably be off, is the injector's opening time, and that will cause a large error at idle, then at WOT. Heck according to Turbo2nr, the F.A.S.T, video even talks about 110%. BTW, Alan Lockheed was pretty much one of the inventors of software can predict an engines output based on it's critical dimensions. Some of his work also involved F1, and how competing teams could estimate a competitors HP, from audio analyse. He also is still teaching Tech Seminars, as a *hired gun*. BTWII, F.A.S.T. has used a claim about using the Ideal Gas Law as a selling point. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 04:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI I told you I didn't understand the VE calculations. I ASSumed the Boost was calculated in when determining the VE. Are you saying (as a rule of thumb), as the boost increases the VE should increase? OK, I did a quick search and came up with this. From: http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/mfuel.htm#law The **************** area is what you want to concentrate on. MegaManual Index -- The Ideal Gas Law -- Injectors -- REQ_FUEL MegaSquirt Fuel Equation -- Ignition InputBatch, Bank, Sequential Injection and MegaSquirt How MegaSquirt Works Understanding how MegaSquirt controls the fuel injectors will help you to assemble, test, and tune your MegaSquirt for best performance. MegaSquirt works on a number of levels to inject the correct amount of fuel into your engine. Most tangible is the hardware. This consists of: * CPU (U1, the 68HC908) and clock section (Y1, the 32768 Hz crystal), that perform computations, * Serial communications section (most notably U6, the MAX232 chip) to enable tuning software to read and write parameters to MegaSquirt, * Power section (especially U5, the LM2937 voltage regulator) to provide a constant 5 volts for many of the other components, * Various input conditioning circuits (consisting mainly of capacitors, resistors, and diodes, but also including: U3, the MPX4250 MAP sensor, and U4, the opto-isolator for the ignition signal, and * A number of outputs to drive the injectors, relays, and LEDs. Significant components include U7, the 34151 FET injector driver, Q2 and Q7, the two IFRIZ34N FETs (field effect transistors) for the injector banks, Q1, the TIP32C flyback transistor, and a number of other transistor, capacitors, and resistors. * There are also a number of other associated parts, such as connectors, the case, cables, etc. The MC68HC908 CPU is controlled by ?embedded software?. This is ?burned? into the non-volatile memory (remembers data even when the power is turned off) of the CPU. It is written in assembly language. The embedded code and its variants are freely available. Another part of the CPU memory is burned with the ?bootloader?, which tells the CPU how to interpret and store new versions of the embedded code sent through the serial communications port. The parameters that adjust the embedded code to your specific vehicle are configured using a laptop and tuning software, such as MegaTune. These are Windows9x/Me/XP applications. They can read information coming from the MegaSquirt, as well as send parameters to MegaSquirt for use and storage. The amount of fuel injected by MegaSquirt depends on several factors: ************************************************** *** * The Ideal Gas Law that relates the amount of air to its pressure, volume and temperature, (this is a fundamental part of the embedded code). * Measured values: manifold pressure, engine and intake air temperature, rpm, etc. (these are taken from the sensor measurements). * Tuning parameters: REQ_FUEL, volumetric efficiency, injector open time, etc. (these are input and adjusted using the tuning software). To understand these, we will start with the basics: the Ideal Gas Law, the REQ_FUEL value, and the fueling equation. The Ideal Gas Law You might remember from high school physics classes that an ideal gas (which air is reasonably close to) obeys the relationship: PV = nRT Where: P = pressure, V = volume, n = number of moles (which is related to the mass of the gas, i.e. 1 mol = 6.023x1023 molecules of the gas, and n = mass (in grams)/molar mass(MM)), R = the ideal gas constant, and T = the absolute temperature. What does this have to do with fuel injection? In order to know how much fuel to inject, we need to know how much air is going into the engine so the chemically correct mixture (called ?stoichiometric?) can be achieved. So for a fuel injected engine, we use sensors to determine the pressure in the intake manifold and the air temperature. However, the temperature in this equation is ?absolute temperature? measured in Kelvins which is equal to degrees Celsius + 273º. The volumetric efficiency (VE) is a percentage that tells us the pressure inside the cylinder versus the pressure in the manifold. We know the volume (V) from the displacement of the engine. Thus we can calculate the mass of air (M) in the cylinder (proportional to n) from n = PV/RT => M = n x MM = PV/RT x MM = (VE * MAP * CYL_DISP) / (R * (IAT-32) * 5/9 + 273)) x MMair Since: P = VE * MAP (i.e. the pressure in the cylinder in kPa), V = CYL_DISP = the displacement of one cylinder (in liters), R = 8.3143510 J/mol K, and T = (IAT-32)* 5/9 + 273 to convert IAT from ºFahrenheit to Kelvin. Note that we can combine the constants R and MMair into one, and we will ignore them from this point on since they can be hard-coded into the assembly language code and neglected after that. Since we now know the amount of air in a cylinder from the MAP and IAT values and the 'tuned' value for VE, we need to know the amount of fuel to inject. We specify this with a parameter called REQ_FUEL. ************************************************** ******* Not always will VE increase, as boost builds. Generally?, ya. It's kinda sorta like the HP curve, at a given amount of boost for a given RPM, after you reach the max flow of the engine, it can/ will drop off. VE is the amount of air an engine consumes as compared to the displacement of the engine. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 04:19 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr So, not too many people run over 30PSI? The import crowd would laugh at that low number for racing. 40PSI++ is very common int the 1320'. Mention 50 PSI at a tractor pull, and folks will laugh. The single turbo classes run at 60, and the staged stuff well over 250 PSI of boost. Oh, and that's none intercooled, thou, they use alot of water...... Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 04:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI I told you I didn't understand the VE calculations. I ASSumed the Boost was calculated in when determining the VE. Are you saying (as a rule of thumb), as the boost increases the VE should increase? OK, I did a quick search and came up with this. From: http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/mfuel.htm#law The **************** area is what you want to concentrate on. MegaManual Index -- The Ideal Gas Law -- Injectors -- REQ_FUEL MegaSquirt Fuel Equation -- Ignition InputBatch, Bank, Sequential Injection and MegaSquirt How MegaSquirt Works Understanding how MegaSquirt controls the fuel injectors will help you to assemble, test, and tune your MegaSquirt for best performance. MegaSquirt works on a number of levels to inject the correct amount of fuel into your engine. Most tangible is the hardware. This consists of: * CPU (U1, the 68HC908) and clock section (Y1, the 32768 Hz crystal), that perform computations, * Serial communications section (most notably U6, the MAX232 chip) to enable tuning software to read and write parameters to MegaSquirt, * Power section (especially U5, the LM2937 voltage regulator) to provide a constant 5 volts for many of the other components, * Various input conditioning circuits (consisting mainly of capacitors, resistors, and diodes, but also including: U3, the MPX4250 MAP sensor, and U4, the opto-isolator for the ignition signal, and * A number of outputs to drive the injectors, relays, and LEDs. Significant components include U7, the 34151 FET injector driver, Q2 and Q7, the two IFRIZ34N FETs (field effect transistors) for the injector banks, Q1, the TIP32C flyback transistor, and a number of other transistor, capacitors, and resistors. * There are also a number of other associated parts, such as connectors, the case, cables, etc. The MC68HC908 CPU is controlled by ?embedded software?. This is ?burned? into the non-volatile memory (remembers data even when the power is turned off) of the CPU. It is written in assembly language. The embedded code and its variants are freely available. Another part of the CPU memory is burned with the ?bootloader?, which tells the CPU how to interpret and store new versions of the embedded code sent through the serial communications port. The parameters that adjust the embedded code to your specific vehicle are configured using a laptop and tuning software, such as MegaTune. These are Windows9x/Me/XP applications. They can read information coming from the MegaSquirt, as well as send parameters to MegaSquirt for use and storage. The amount of fuel injected by MegaSquirt depends on several factors: ************************************************** *** * The Ideal Gas Law that relates the amount of air to its pressure, volume and temperature, (this is a fundamental part of the embedded code). * Measured values: manifold pressure, engine and intake air temperature, rpm, etc. (these are taken from the sensor measurements). * Tuning parameters: REQ_FUEL, volumetric efficiency, injector open time, etc. (these are input and adjusted using the tuning software). To understand these, we will start with the basics: the Ideal Gas Law, the REQ_FUEL value, and the fueling equation. The Ideal Gas Law You might remember from high school physics classes that an ideal gas (which air is reasonably close to) obeys the relationship: PV = nRT Where: P = pressure, V = volume, n = number of moles (which is related to the mass of the gas, i.e. 1 mol = 6.023x1023 molecules of the gas, and n = mass (in grams)/molar mass(MM)), R = the ideal gas constant, and T = the absolute temperature. What does this have to do with fuel injection? In order to know how much fuel to inject, we need to know how much air is going into the engine so the chemically correct mixture (called ?stoichiometric?) can be achieved. So for a fuel injected engine, we use sensors to determine the pressure in the intake manifold and the air temperature. However, the temperature in this equation is ?absolute temperature? measured in Kelvins which is equal to degrees Celsius + 273º. The volumetric efficiency (VE) is a percentage that tells us the pressure inside the cylinder versus the pressure in the manifold. We know the volume (V) from the displacement of the engine. Thus we can calculate the mass of air (M) in the cylinder (proportional to n) from n = PV/RT => M = n x MM = PV/RT x MM = (VE * MAP * CYL_DISP) / (R * (IAT-32) * 5/9 + 273)) x MMair Since: P = VE * MAP (i.e. the pressure in the cylinder in kPa), V = CYL_DISP = the displacement of one cylinder (in liters), R = 8.3143510 J/mol K, and T = (IAT-32)* 5/9 + 273 to convert IAT from ºFahrenheit to Kelvin. Note that we can combine the constants R and MMair into one, and we will ignore them from this point on since they can be hard-coded into the assembly language code and neglected after that. Since we now know the amount of air in a cylinder from the MAP and IAT values and the 'tuned' value for VE, we need to know the amount of fuel to inject. We specify this with a parameter called REQ_FUEL. ************************************************** ******* Not always will VE increase, as boost builds. Generally?, ya. It's kinda sorta like the HP curve, at a given amount of boost for a given RPM, after you reach the max flow of the engine, it can/ will drop off. VE is the amount of air an engine consumes as compared to the displacement of the engine. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 04:19 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr So, not too many people run over 30PSI? The import crowd would laugh at that low number for racing. 40PSI++ is very common int the 1320'. Mention 50 PSI at a tractor pull, and folks will laugh. The single turbo classes run at 60, and the staged stuff well over 250 PSI of boost. Oh, and that's none intercooled, thou, they use alot of water...... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #37 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 06:21 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI Scott, You are putting too much faith in the video. When they were handed out at BG, Lance stated "This video is not a substitute for a good tuner". It was designed to teach people the basics, NOT tell them what VE values to put in their table. I will tell you that IME I have never tuned a turbo motor with the volumetric efficiency anwhere near 150%. My experience shows the FAST system follows physics a LOT closer than the video. I still don't see how a turbo motor can get 50% more boost in the cylinder than it has in the manifold. Bruce? So the instructions are wrong?. Tuning is what it's all about. But, having some understanding of what's really going on is *power*. Sure folks can get lucky and or spend hours on end, getting things to work, but in the end, having them work as designed will often get better results. It's under pressure, and moving alot faster (ie inertia comes into play) then what it would in a N/A engine. A large plenum forms a *reserve* where once the intake valve opens, the volume of air inside the manifold can quickly start to force the piston down, unlike a N/A engine where it's just atmospheric pressure trying to fill the cylinder as the piston moves down. Not to mention that it will continue to push air past a closing intake valve, much better then if there was no pressure in the manifold. As mentioned earlier, the NASCAR guys are getting over 100%, by tuning the runners and plenum, to take advantage of the wave action in the manifold. What I did in my code was use the VE for when the engine is running in N/A mode, and then use a PW multiplier for when in boost. It's sort of how GM did the Syclone code, but with some improvements, and alot better resolution. By doing this, I avoided the traps and errors of trying to use a VE calculation when in boost (other then for the basis on what to work at the higher MAPs) . Map: 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 ; RPM: 0, 0, 0, 0, 20, 30, 33, 41, 44, 51, 52, 59, 60, 63, 64, 64, 64 ; 2200 Kpa 100 119 138 156 175 194 213 231 250 269 288 306 ; RPM 130, 132, 134, 140, 144, 146, 146, 146, 146, 146, 146, 146 ; 2400 Now to actually figure out what the PW is, you use the table entry, and divide it by 128. So at 100 K/Pa, it's the PW done in the VE calculation, and corrections, times 130, and then divided by 128. So if the PW was 10 msec., it would be 10x130, divided by 128, or 10.156 msec.. The table also shows that at 2,400 RPM, at over 194 K/Pa of boost, that the fuel requirement flat lines, and/or the turbo just won't generate more then that amount of boost at 2,400 RPM. FWIW, this is what that first line entry will look like when I further refine some corrections. ie 90% VE at about peak torque would be a very realistic number. While not in boost, the turbo is still spooling up, and helping to fill the cylinders. Map: 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 ; RPM: 0, 0, 0, 0, 30, 45, 48, 52, 66, 73, 74, 75, 75, 95, 96, 96, 96 ; 2200 Does that help to explain things?. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #38 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 06:24 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Sorry to interrupt, but I am sure I am not the only one wondering this, I have read this thread from the begginning I just want to know what VE is:D VE, Volumetric Effiecency, is the amount of air, an engine is using compared to how much it could use. If a Buick engine is using 3.8L of air every two revolutions and displaces 3.8L, then it's at 100% VE. If it was to somehow flow 7.6L of air per 2 revolutions, that would be 200% VE. Being a 4 stroke engine it takes 2 revolutions to fully cycle all the cylinders. Last edited by Bruce : 06-07-2006 at 06:26 AM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #39 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 06:38 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JCotton As for the VE tables, I agree with you, depending on the fuel system and injector size for a particular combination, the VE tables I see, typically do not go above mid 80's. If they do, usually a fuel delivery problem is the culprit. Then you're ignoring how the system is designed to work. They're claim in their advertising is that it's a true VE Table, and uses the Ideal Gas Law. That's in part what makes it better then the old stuff where the fuel table was just a Base PW. It's the ability to accurately calculate what the engine is actually doing that allows for best optimising the timing and fueling of the motor. BTW, I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just explain how things are supposed to work. BTWII, it's beginning to look like there's some errors in the F.A.S.T. code, if what's been said here is the way things are done. For an entry of 80% VE at max HP (under any real amount of boost), is way off. There are numberous papers to support the 110-150%, not to mention one is the F.A.S.T. video, acccording to one participant here. Reply With Quote Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 9 votes, 1.44 average. Display Modes #41 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 06:46 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Looking at the fast video again, I see the high boost range is recommended to peak at 110%-150% VE (for a turbo application, at max torque output). 150% VE!! Wow, something is not right here. I hate getting info that conflicts. My brain is short circuted. So much for the FAST system following the laws of physics. I guess we are just making up random numbers to produce the results we want? Not really a true representation of whats going on inside the engine. So, most TR guys are seeing around 90% VE at the most? Any others out there over 100% ?? Also, include what system are you running. So F.A.S.T., and Alan Lockheed are both wrong?. If the claim F.A.S.T. is making about using the Ideal Gas Law, is true, and the code is in fact correct, then it is following the laws of physics. However it sounds like people are using numbers to make it work, rather then reflecting what's really going on. Or there is an error in what F.A.S.T. has said or is doing. I see over 90% VE when in N/A mode. With my own system, which is based on how GM does things. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #43 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 07:53 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JCotton Thats some good stuff Bruce. I respect your knowledge greatly, although I do have a difficult timing understanding some things. What it boils down to for me is "time".... not enough of it to absorb and grasp all the details. You are so right in knowledge being "power". Unfortunately I have broken down the VE table into something I can grasp easily, maybe you can help me to understand it better if I explain it to you in my laymans terminology. I look at the VE table as my "fuel map". The higher the numbers the more fuel I am adding, the lower the number the less fuel I use. I use other parameters to determine what to do in the VE table such as my "actual A\F" and my "% of correction". If I have positive correction I raise my VE number and obviously lower my number if I have a negative correction. Thats how it was explained to me many years ago when I first began using FAST on my car. Thats about as simple as I can put it.... Yes, it's a *Fueling Map*. However, there are several ways *to do the math*. An ecm just runs on code, and the corresponding math.. The better the *math*, or the modeling that the math allows for, the better are the answers that the ecm can generate. If you want to treat a VE table as a Base Pulse Width table, like the Gen VI was, that's all well and good. It will work like that. But, in the examples here, if you using say 80% as being the highest VE possible, then when the code runs, there will be a *rounding error*. While some math, gives even answers, ie 2x2=4, there are cases like 2.33x2.66 that will generate an answer like 6.1978, and that has to be rounded off to 6.20. As the math goes on, and on, there is more and more possible *rounding errors*, so any intial error will only get worse, as the calculations go on. Are they huge errors?, no. But, there are errors, and I hope we can agree on, the more accurate the modeling the ecm can do, the better data it can generate. It's just like engine building, the more attention you pay to the details the better the final result. So while it might not seem like a big deal, it does matter which numbers it is that you round off, and when. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #46 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 09:05 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI Bruce, I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier. You quoted megasquirt saying saying: The volumetric efficiency (VE) is a percentage that tells us the pressure inside the cylinder versus the pressure in the manifold Are you saying this is incorrect and VE has nothing to do with intake pressure? I don't see where that's in conflict to anything I've stated. If an engine is being completely filled and at 100% VE, then (speaking in theory here), then pressures would be equal. There are related items that would come into play, ie pumping loses, the wave actions within the manifold, the air column inertia (and it would vary as a matter of intake valve lift). I was only using the Megasquirt info., to explain the Ideal Gas Law. If you want to take it upon yourself and do more research on the matter, fine, but I'm not claiming to be an expert on all of this, I'm just trying to make some sense it for others. If you don't like may explainations or want better explainations of it, a quick search will turn up an address for Bruce Bowling, or Al Grippo (sp?), and they can run thur it for you. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #47 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 09:14 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JCotton Thanks Bruce, I can understand that, like build a wall, if you ar off left or right of the center line 1" after the first 12"es, imagine how far you'll be off at the end of a 20' run....... ouch. Here's a question for you..... ex. we run a combo with 83lb injectors and a VE table in the 90's, we replace the injectors with a set of 160lbers and now have a VE table in the 50-60 range ......I look at that and say thats what happens when you supply more potential fuel from a larger hose, you don't have to turn the volumne up as much,in laymans terms...:D ? 90% VE is 90% VE. If you change injectors, the PW at the end of the math will be different, but the VE is the same (if changing injectors was the only change). [Nit picking following] Well, that's even slightly wrong since you'd have to watch the injector's *off* signal in relationship to the intake valve, and then also account for the difference in fuel droplet size... That also gets us into things like the operating characterists of the injectors being used. ie going from 30 PPH injectors to 60's doesn't mean just chopping the PW is half, and things will be fine. The code also needs to allow for things like the mechanical diffferences in the injectors, and how they act at different voltages. Yes, that is somewhat splitting hairs, but, I'm bringing this up as a matter of why some things just don't at a glance seem *right*. While you *can* use the VE to account for say the mechanics of the injectors, you can't for say battery voltage. Yes, there is a point where you have to call it close enough, and just move on, but, like you noted in your wall building, you need to get it close or there will be problems. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #52 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 04:40 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI changes to the VE table when swapping injectors, but ASSumed it was because of the diferent flow rates between injectors at diferent duty cycles. Bruce: The reason I was asking was because (based upon that statement) it seemed to me that a VE of 150% meant that you had a lot higher boost in a cylinder than you do in the manifold. i.e. 30 psi measured in the intake would be like 40 psi in the cylinder. This apeared to be improbable based upon the flow restrictions of the cylinder head/intake manifold. Not to mention the 40+ psi of backpressure in th exhaust. Interesting reading: http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1354 It is. I don't see how you getting to the conclusion of having more boost in the cylinder then in the manifold. Cylinder Filling it almost independent of backpressure. It only has the slightest effect due to overlap, and with a *0* overlap cam would have REALLY close to no effect. ************ From your supplied link: Before the thread digressed it was rather interesting. Definitions can be helpful. After looking through the thread I really didn?t see a specific definition provided. So I took a look in Obert and he defines VE as: The ratio of the actual mass of air inducted by the engine on an intake stroke to the theoretical mass of air that should have been inducted by filling the piston-displacement volume with air at atmospheric pressure and temperature. VE = (actual mass of air inducted per intake stroke) / ( theoretical mass of air at atmospheric temperature to fill piston displacement volume ) The name volumetric efficiency is actually a misnomer because actually it is a mass and not a volume ratio. ************* There is so much opinion, in that link that I'd say one would due best to ignore it. There are some nuggets in there, but you have to have a pretty good understanding of it to find them. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #53 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 04:45 PM turbo2nr's Avatar turbo2nr turbo2nr is offline Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: rinse cycle Posts: 945 Send a message via ICQ to turbo2nr Send a message via AIM to turbo2nr Send a message via Yahoo to turbo2nr Send a message via Skype? to turbo2nr Thanks. That sounds like a better definition. I am wrong. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #54 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 04:53 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr What about cars that add a turbo to a N/A engine, like a Corvette. That car, and others, do not have a rising rate fuel regulator. They have a constant fuel PSI. So maybe those cars need the tables cranked up to 150%, to make up for the lack of fuel pressure. Does that make sense?? I bet a lot of FAST sales are for people doing turbo kits on N/A cars. I did not see a table or section in the set-up for the software to choose either rising rate, or constant fuel PSI, in relation to MAP. Did I miss a section somewhere? Bruce, this fuel pressure thing is a critical variable to determine how much fuel to add. I see the next gen. ECU's with fuel pressure sensors. What do you think?? (Edit) Actually, my Subaru's all have a fuel pressure sensor AND fuel temp sensor. That's right! I once had a code for fuel too hot. I bypassed my fuel pump controler and had over heated my fuel. The car actually knew that! ******************************************* For now, I'll stop thinking about it, and go with the flow.... ******************************************* Raising rate regulators are an ugly *work around* in my book. More often then not, they're to get around having properly sized injectors. Having the injectors work at a constant pressure differential, is the only way to fly in my book. If you do something other then that, the VE table becomes a base pulse width table, that just so happens to use the Ideal Gas Law's corrections. I have a fuel temp correction (indirectly) in my code. And for those still following along, now do you see why I harped on using MATs?. What would be interesting is to see how ACCEL uses the Manifold temp, in their code. Is it just for the AE calculations, or are they getting really clever. ******************************************* For now, I'll stop thinking about it, and go with the flow.... ******************************************* Then that makes all of this, just an exercise in futility. Last edited by Bruce : 06-07-2006 at 04:55 PM. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #56 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 04:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim This can further be proven by setting up a car perfect, then swapping the injectors, in a perfect world, you woouldnt have to change anything in the program other than injector size, and your corrections should remain as they were....if the table really was a VE table, since injectors have no bearing on VE. Some code allows for the operating characteristics of the injectors, and does allow for that. IMO, the injector vendors should get that data from the various manufacturers, and make it available to the public, so that VE tables could be treated as such. But, that's on a long list of things I'd like to see being done.... ------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 01-14-2006, 03:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Switchblade how restrictive is a tight torque converter? i have a stock converter on a tranny that was rebuilt a little beefier than stock. i am just wondering whats the fastest someone has gone with a stock torque converter. ive just got bolt-ons. 55lb injectors, 3" DP with dual 2.5 exhaust. razors alcohol injection. DFI. bigger turbo. stock intercooler. unopened engine. i am only running 15lbs or so of boost but plan to turn it up to 20 with some tuning. at this point, how beneficial would a looser torque converter be? and whats the fastest quarter someone has run with a stock converter? To make a long story short...... A looser converter has everything to do with launching... If you're at all serious about drag racing then it's a concern, if 99% of your driving is on the street, and your not into 60' sprints at traffic lights, then you can still have alot of fun with a stocker converter. I *finally* went with a Yank Converter, and yes I really like it, but the stocker was alot of fun for years. IMO, if you're going to be running slicks and not suffering too badly from being traction limited, then you'll be needing one rather soon. ----------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 08-01-2006, 03:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by arkansasfiddler another quick ques: can i engage the converter (with manual switch @ wot) at say....70 or so mph? also with foot to the floor (converter disengaged via switch) at what speed will od engage?..........any help is appreciated Depends on converter, and HP level your at. Co.s like Yank offer really heavy duty TCC clutches, there are others that even offer multi clutch setups to take the high HP engines. Depends on the chip. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 --------------------------- Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 10-07-2005, 06:21 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 If you look closely at some of the AN O-Ring machining, it leaves too much of *flare* to retain the O-Ring, so it can marginally bottoming out before sealing properly, or not leaking in the long term. Other then at the fuel rail ends, I perfer to use compression fitting to AV adapters. Not as slick as going from o-Ring to AN, but so far, I've never had a compression fuel line fitting failure. If you elect to forgo the compression fitting, besure to pre-assemble, and verify the fittings really do fit right. BTW, one of the *help* type product lines sells the 3/8" tubing with the proper crimping to hold the O-Ring correctly. Reply With Quote ----------------------------- #3 Report Post Old 09-13-2006, 03:27 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr View Post I have never tried "good" shocks. Lots of folks haven't......... IMO, they're worth every penny. With QA1 having bought out Carrera, they're positioned to be a really good shock co.. I have their coil overs on all 4 corners, and really like 'em. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 09-13-2006, 06:14 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr View Post I thought about those, but are they legal for TSM, if I ever felt the need to go spend $$ on getting my azz handed to me on a platter that is. Depends on who's reading the rules.... As a safety item, they should be, but, the rules are enforced by popularity not what makes sense, IMO. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. -------------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 09-04-2006, 02:35 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by m2gn View Post ARE ANY OF YOU GUYS OUT THERE RUNNING THE T-PRO. JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT THE TRANSLATOR PRO. I got to play with the prototype in a Mitsu, and then one of the earliest ones in Bob Bailey's own car. If it wasn't for having done all the ecm/code work that I have for my own stuff, I'd be running it. It's an impressive unit, IMO. I just wish I had worked more with it to be able to answer, guestions about it. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote ------------------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 23 votes, 1.00 average. Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 07-22-2004, 11:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quick Start on a GN On the later 3800s they use two crankshaft interupter rings. One 3x like the GN normally uses, and then a 18x. By using two, and seeing which window opens first, the module can figure out which cylinder to fire first. Note: No cam synch signal is needed for synch'ing the coil firings. I was a little worried that things might be diferent code wise since the windows, were inverted in the new setup, on the 3x ring. But, it started right up. The car starts instantly now. The difference is amazing. And the later units use the Type I or II coils, as a matter of plug and play. I also mounted them on the A/C block off plate, so save time when doing engine work. AND, it allows me to now use the later ECMs/PCMs, if I want. I found a worn out late model crank pulley off of a S/C car, and then had an adapter ring made. So now the rings bolt thru the adapter, and those bolts become *studs* for the crank pulley. There is an early and late version. The early looks like the GN stock sensor but has 4 leads going to it, and the later a much larger sensor, and is fixed. The spacing between the rings is also different between the two. So you have to use the right ring/sensor combo., for them to play nice with each other. Now the odd thing, it seems like the car even idles better. I don't know if the later modules do something different dwell wise, but it sure seems like it. Maybe just my imagination...... And for guys running batch fire systems, you can use this, without the cam sensor. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 07-23-2004, 05:40 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 I don't have the part numbers, now that it's using current production parts I got lazy about tracking more then I needed to know. Here's some pics of what the early Quick Start Pieces look like, the later/current production parts are on the car. The connector was impossible to get until I called Casper's and he had one in stock. Keeping stuff plug and play while in the proof of concept stage is important in my book. As you can see the newer design shutter wheels use a 4 bolt mounting pattern as compared to the press on version in the stock application one. With the balancer having a 6 hole pattern obviously some carving was done on the shutters to even bolt them to the adapter and balancer. Also note how small the windows are. This may have something to do with the better dwell control that I suspect is in play. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 07-26-2004, 06:55 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Mistascott I always wondered why they switched to two rings. Does the 18X just make it easier/quicker to find the right cylinder to fire, hence a quicker start overall? Yes. The new ignition module looks to see which window opens first. So it can tell within a 1/3 of a crank revolution which coil pack to fire next. In the oem GN set up, it can take up to 2 full crank revolutions to get a cam synch signal. Not to mention that in the startup routines, they ignore the first few igntion pulses, before supplying fuel, and then seem to go excessivley rich, in the stock GN calibration. The newer setup is just much more refined. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 07-29-2004, 12:04 AM Mistascott's Avatar Mistascott Mistascott is offline Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: NC Posts: 201 Thanks Bruce __________________ Scott 87 GN (FOR SALE) 87 LeSabre T-Type Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 07-29-2004, 06:57 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Just as an update. MSD sells a part no. 8870 that is an adapter for the Type II coils for interfacing them with CD ignitions. Bummer, is the Tech guys at MSD said they'll work with the MSD6's. Well if you have a 2 cylinder DIS they will. For the GNs, you would still need to use a MSD DIS4/6. Or 3 MSD6's. I spent most of yesterday finding out the tech guy wasn't really up to snuff on what he was saying. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 08-10-2004, 11:02 AM Sleeper's Avatar Sleeper Sleeper is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 35 Exclamation Bruce Here is some info that I have been gathering, that I hope will be useful. Attached are some ECM/PCM ignition module wiring diagrams, as well as a comparison pinout sheet. The Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor provides a signal used by the ignition control module to calculate ignition sequence. The ignition control module also uses the crankshaft position sensor signals to initiate 18X and 3X reference pulses which the PCM uses as reference to calculate RPM and crankshaft position. The dual crankshaft position sensor contains two Hall-effect switches with one shared magnet mounted between them. The magnet and each Hall-effect switch are separated by an air gap. A Hall-effect switch reacts like a solid state switch, grounding a low current signal voltage when a magnetic field is present. When the magnetic field is shielded from the switch by a piece of steel placed in the air gap between the magnet and the switch, the signal voltage is not grounded. If the piece of steel (called an interrupter) is repeatedly moved in and out of the air gap, the signal voltage will appear to go ON - OFF - ON OFF - ON - OFF. Each interrupter ring has blades and windows that either block the magnetic field or allow it to close one of the Hall effect switches. The outer Hall effect switch produces a signal called the CKP 18X because the outer interrupter ring has 18 evenly spaced blades and windows. The CKP 18X portion of the crankshaft position sensor produces 18 ON - OFF pulses per crankshaft revolution. The Hall-effect switch closest to the crankshaft, the CKP Sync portion of the sensor, produces a signal that approximates the inside interrupter ring. The inside interrupter ring has 3 unevenly spaced blades and windows of different widths. The CKP Sync portion of the crankshaft position sensor produces 3 different length ON - OFF pulses per crankshaft revolution. When a CKP Sync interrupter ring window is between the magnet and inner switch, the magnetic field will cause the CKP Sync Hall effect switch to ground the CKP Sync signal voltage supplied from the ignition control module. The CKP 18X interrupter ring and Hall-effect switch react similarly. The ignition control module interprets the CKP 18X and CKP Sync ON - OFF signals as an indication of crankshaft position, and the ignition control module must have both signals to fire the correct ignition coil. The ignition control module determines crankshaft position for correct ignition coil sequencing by counting how many CKP 18X signal transitions occur, i.e.; ON - OFF or OFF - ON, during a CKP Sync pulse. The 3800 has a dual Hall-Effect CKP (crankshaft sensor) which produces an evenly spaced 18x signal and an unevenly spaced 3x Sync signal. The ICM (ignition control module) supplies power, ground, and signal reference to the CKP sensor so, obviously, both signals go to the ICM. The CMP (cam sensor) also receives its power and ground from the ICM and the CMP signal is fed to the ICM. The CKP Sync signal is used for cylinder ID by the ICM to determine coil-firing sequence. The Sync signal is also used as a filter for the other signals going out to the PCM. The ICM has two CKP outputs to the PCM; an 18x and a 3x FC (fuel control) signal. The 18x signal (to PCM) is based on the CKP 18x signal to the ICM and mirrors it exactly. The ICM also takes the 18x CKP signal and divides it by 6 to produce the 3x FC signal to the PCM. If the 3x Sync signal is lost, the ICM will not output the 18x or the CMP signal to the PCM. The 3x FC signal however, will be sent to the PCM and the engine will continue to run Paul BTW If there is a problem with reading the PDF's, I can transfer them to a different format. Attached Files File Type: pdf 88ParkAve3800.pdf (150.4 KB, 88 views) File Type: pdf 92ParkAveUltra3800SC.pdf (176.2 KB, 63 views) File Type: pdf 95Bonneville3800SCdiagrams.pdf (250.0 KB, 67 views) File Type: doc 87 GN ECM.doc (175.5 KB, 93 views) File Type: doc Pinnouts2.doc (40.0 KB, 70 views) __________________ 72 Toyota Celica with an 87 GN drive train Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 08-11-2004, 11:57 AM Sleeper's Avatar Sleeper Sleeper is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Toronto Canada Posts: 35 Post Update I have been looking at wiring diagrams for too long and my brain isn't working well, so I need help from a clear mind. I have crossed most of the 18x module pins to our ECM, (Attached is a updated pinout sheet) but have a few I'm not sure who goes to our Pin (B5 crank ref hi ) (Sorry about the formatting, I cant make it work) Pin 88 Park Ave 92 Park Ave 95 Bonneville C Crank Hi Ref 18x Spark Reference Spark Reference D Crank Ref Hi Fuel Control Fuel Control And if ?Spark Reference? & ?Fuel Control? refer to ?Crank Hi Ref? And 12v vs 10v sensor feed? Once all is said and done there will also be one wire unaccounted for Any input is appreciated Thanks Paul Attached Files File Type: doc Pinouts3.doc (34.0 KB, 74 views) __________________ 72 Toyota Celica with an 87 GN drive train Last edited by Sleeper : 08-11-2004 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Formatting Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 08-14-2004, 09:30 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Welllll, I bought 3 of the 8870s, and 3, of the ACCEL 300 CD Ingition Modules. So I'm going to have one CD system per coil. ie lost of spark, and with ech CD only seeing 1/3 of the engine RPM, I'll have the multi-spark working full time. Today I got 2 of the 3 CDs wired in and went for a test drive. There is something different, that's for sure. While I'm not going to start leaning down until I get the 3rd one wired in, the WB is definitely reading richer when the engine's cold. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 09-02-2004, 03:00 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by weeee_6 Bruce, Can you give an example year/make/model car that would have the newer GM stuff that you had working on your GN? I will then get the part numbers, and a complete donor list and post it here. The 96 and later 3800s. The balancer I robbed my shutter rings off of were from a crank pulley that was worn out, and off a Supercharged engine. The extra load of the S/C causes the damping material to tear, and fall out, and that makes a bad rod knock type noise. At several hundred dollars for a new one, they're pricey, to get if you use new ones. A sharpe punch, and needle nose vise grips will cause the balancer to shed the shutter rings. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 08-14-2006, 02:45 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by zbuickman Am I correct in thinking that I use the 3x fuel control ppl/wht 430wire to our ecm. and not the pin C 18x spark reflt blu/blk 647 wire right?? I believe so. pin c 647 is not used at all on the conversion right? Thanks for your help. P.S. I still have all your info on the "749" ecm and will do that some day. Arrgh, I can't find my wiring diagram at the moment. Just in review, both the 3x, and 18x get feed to the ignition module. The 18x from the module to the ecm is left disconnected. The 18x is used in the later PCMS for engine miss detection, which isn't in the 148 code. Good enough?. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 08-14-2006, 04:34 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by zbuickman Yes, Thank you, going to go hook it up now Almost forgot, be sure to check the shutter to sensor clearances. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 08-14-2006, 06:49 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by zbuickman To late but I checked anyway. It hit got it all together just gotta splice the wires up now. Love the look of the stainless shutters. Ill finish it tomorrow. Dat ain't nutin, just wait til until it starts the first time. It's as good as a Dissy in that reguard. Things synch up in 60d or less of crank rotation, instead of taking as long at 350d. Having an GN start instantly on a 8dF morning is kinda nice.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #20 Report Post Old 08-23-2006, 02:15 PM weeee_6's Avatar weeee_6 weeee_6 is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Grand Haven and LeRoy, MI Posts: 307 Correct me if I a wrong please! Trying to make a long story short; ELECTRICAL: Stock GN harness plugs into new '96+ 3800 Module/Coil? Only electrical rewiring/adapting occurs at the crank sensor and cam sensor? Is cam sensor still needed? (I am running the '749 computer. (and love it BTW )) MECHANICAL: 3800 interupter wheels bolt to stock balancer, but need holes drilled? Clocked to where? 3800 Sensor and bracket bolt to stock GN block? Is an adapter plate required to mount the module/coil? OTHER ?'s: Some have reported "popping" during high RPM/boost with the switch to type 2 module and coils (no crank sensor upgrade, I believe). Is this still an issue? Thanks for the help guys! :anbet: . __________________ Bob Smith '87 GN Quick reply to this message #22 Report Post Old 08-25-2006, 05:46 PM zbuickman's Avatar zbuickman zbuickman is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 312 Send a message via AIM to zbuickman electrical: NO Ill post the splicing that needs to be done. Yes you still need the cam sensor Mechanical: Mine didnt. it came off a 95 lesabere. and had like 12 holes in it. Almost like it was univeral. compair the rings there is a spot hole or some of the holes in your existing ring will match up. And put it where it lines up with the old one. Yes but check clearances. mine hit and had to be adjusted. ground down. Yes this came off a 93 Grand am And youll need the coil screws as well. and this plate bolts right up. Other ? I dont have a problem yet, I'm also not very radical. I will post wiring in a bit Quick reply to this message #23 Report Post Old 08-25-2006, 06:51 PM zbuickman's Avatar zbuickman zbuickman is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 312 Send a message via AIM to zbuickman wiring cross over chart. 95 module - 86 harness mod plug. pin wire# color function - Function color wire# pin A 423 white EST - EST white 423 A Keep track of this one B 424 tan/blk Bypass - Bypass Tan/Blk 424 B C 647 LtBlu/Blk spark ref. - dont use remove pin and plug hole in wire grommet. D 430 Pur/Wht Fuel control - Ref High Pur/Wht 430 C Hurry up and get this done My 5 yr. old says there are walking pizza's that are going to kill us all E 121 White Tach - Tach White 121 E Keep track Don't mix these up. F 630 Black Cam Output - ECM All Cam Black 630 J G 573 Yellow Crank Signal - Crank sensor B Sig Blu/Wht 643 F H 646 LtBlu/Wht Sync Signal - Crank sensor Grnd Black(mine was Blk/Yel) 642 G Other end of this wire to be spliced later. Will Edit for the rest Later Quick reply to this message #24 Report Post Old 08-26-2006, 11:42 AM zbuickman's Avatar zbuickman zbuickman is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 312 Send a message via AIM to zbuickman Bruce can you please combine these posts for me? I The letter I is not used. J 633 Brn/Wht Cam In - Brn/Wht Cam sensor B signal 633 K K 451 Blk/Wht Ground Connect to engine bolt. L 453 Red/ Blk Ref Low - ECM B3 Ref Low Blk/Red 453 D M 545 Red /Gry(mine was Red/Blk) Sensor Ground - Cam Sensor C ground Blk/Pink 632 L N 644 Wht/Blk Sensor Feed - Cam Sensor A 10v Yellow 631 N O The letter O is not Used P 839 Pink Ignition Feed - Ignition Power Pnk/Blk 439 P 86 module wires not used M 639 Pnk/Blk Ignition power - Cap and hide in harness H 641 Blk/Grn Crank sensor A 10v - Refer to unused Sensor Wires Sensor Wiring New crank sensor, old cam senor - Old crank sensor, or old cam sensor Cnk A 646 LtBlu/Wht Sync Signal - Crank Sensor C Ground Blk(mine was Blk/Yel) 642 G Cnk B 573 Yellow Crank Signal - Crank Sensor B Signal Blu/Wht 643 Cnk C 545 Red/Gry(mine was Red/Blk), Cam C 632 Sensor Ground - Cam sensor Ground Blk(Mine was Blk/Yel) 642 Cnk D 644 Wht/Blk , Cam A Yellow 631 Sensor Feed - Cam Sensor Feed Yellow 631 Cam B 633 Brn/Wht Cam Sensor Signal - Leave Alone Arlready Where it belongs. Sensor wiring not used H 641 Blk/Grn Crank Sensor A 10v - Either take out Completely or cap both ends and hide in harness Misc notes I soldered all splices and heat shrunk them. For caps I put a dab of caulk in the end of the heat shrink then shrunk it. Plugs are available through Caspers(nice and new) Or through your local bone yard (need to be cleaned but usually FREE). GM kept The colorig scheme pretty much the same For the type II's. Make sure its from a 3800 as there are two styles(14 wires) Double check the diagrams for the vehicle The parts are from, as there may be slight differances. Make a new Wiring diagram for your car to assist in future mods or troubleshooting other problems Good luck, Brent __________________ Brent 84 T-Type 36#inj, 208/208 cam, ported heads, afpr, booster pump, headers,straight exhaust, chip, k&n, tb lines, 160*t-stat, forged pistons, total seal rings, other misc. stage 1 internals ,10.4 wires, ngk plugs, 2 1/2 down pipe, 87mod and coil, breather, 3:73 posi, 86 GS DD and ECM test mule w/ L67 Quick start Type II's, IAC and TPS. Turbo pistons, rods, and rings, High rate wagon springs, and UHMWP suspension bushings. 65 GTO http://www.angelfire.com/art2/bdenterprises/ Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #25 Report Post Old 02-03-2007, 10:10 PM Turbo1dr's Avatar Turbo1dr Turbo1dr is offline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 101 Bruce or anyone who has this system up and running... I'm wanting to do this to mine. Are you guys still running this set-up? Have there been any problems? I assume the ign timing is still being controlled properly by the 87 ECM under all conditions? Is everything listed on this thread correct? It looks to be simple to get working and I know what to do to get the 18X and 3X rings on the balancer. Just wanted to check for any updates or horror stories from you guys. Quick reply to this message #26 Report Post Old 02-04-2007, 08:18 PM zbuickman's Avatar zbuickman zbuickman is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 312 Send a message via AIM to zbuickman No horror stories. It runs GREAT and still starts NOW!!! Even at 0*F. the idle is smoother. And the parts are more acsesable and cheaper to replace if needed. the only fab work involved is the mounting of the reluctor rings. But looking at your injector proj. its well within your skill level. The module bracket came off a 93 Grand Am 3.1This one has the three bolt holes needed to mount on your factory bracket. and the harmonic(reluctor rings), crank sensor, module and coils came off an 95 LeSabre(passenger side tore off in acc. easy acses) these are the same up through like 04' or something. if you would like to double check wiring before putting this on your car, I can Email you the schematics. nice car by the way good luck. __________________ Brent 84 T-Type 36#inj, 208/208 cam, ported heads, afpr, booster pump, headers,straight exhaust, chip, k&n, tb lines, 160*t-stat, forged pistons, total seal rings, other misc. stage 1 internals ,10.4 wires, ngk plugs, 2 1/2 down pipe, 87mod and coil, breather, 3:73 posi, 86 GS DD and ECM test mule w/ L67 Quick start Type II's, IAC and TPS. Turbo pistons, rods, and rings, High rate wagon springs, and UHMWP suspension bushings. Quick reply to this message #28 Report Post Old 02-06-2007, 05:31 AM zbuickman's Avatar zbuickman zbuickman is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 312 Send a message via AIM to zbuickman dont even bother with the early set up. its -18*F and the car started right up this morning. If you looking for fire power than look at the 6 coil DIS article posted up here as well. Ill dig up those diagrams. later ill post a vid or the GS starting with a quickstart on it at -18* F Quick reply to this message #29 Report Post Old 02-06-2007, 04:01 PM Turbo1dr's Avatar Turbo1dr Turbo1dr is offline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 101 Today got the balancer made...pretty simple to do. I used a non turbo balancer with the 1995 reluctor rings and crank sensor. The rings are bolted on from the rear with two bolts which are long enough to become studs for the crank pulley. All in all, it will have 2 studs and 4 bolts holding the crank pulley on. Quick reply to this message #32 Report Post Old 02-23-2007, 11:46 PM Turbo1dr's Avatar Turbo1dr Turbo1dr is offline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 101 I've got this system up and running on an 87 GN engine. The only time it starts instantly is when there's residual fuel in the cylinders. I had a noid light hooked up to the injector harness and all the spark plug wires were off the coils. While cranking the engine the coils would start firing before the injectors. It still seems the ECM is looking for a cam signal before it starts firing the injectors. However, if there is residual fuel in the cylinders (such as spraying starting fluid in the intake) it will instantly fire up with hardly a twist of the key. I assume this set-up works with a stock 1227148 ECM and not some modded one of a kind 148 computer. __________________ Quick reply to this message #40 Report Post Old 03-03-2007, 06:23 PM Turbo1dr's Avatar Turbo1dr Turbo1dr is offline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 101 UPDATE: I install this set-up on the Malibu. It does start noticably quicker. I used an ignition module, crank sensor and interrupter rings from a 1995 Buick LeSabre 3800. Getting the balancer made and the non adjustable crank sensor to work was the hardest part. Don't try doing this unless you have access to a machine shop and don't mind trial and error test fitting. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #42 Report Post Old 03-04-2007, 03:56 PM Turbo1dr's Avatar Turbo1dr Turbo1dr is offline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 101 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR View Post How well does this work with your gerotor pump? I can't remember what upper section you used for your cover. I use the upper half of a GN timing cover and a lower half of a front wheel drive cover. You can make the quick start system work with either cover because I've done it with both. I used the late non adjustable crank sensor. It bolted up fine to the lower half of my FWD gerotor timing cover. However, it will not bolt up using the original rear wheel drive cover like the GN's. The upper part of the non-adj crank sensor where the bolt goes through needs to be ground down to get it to work. Also, the back part of the sensor that wraps around near the front seal hits the timing cover in that area. So you have to grind down that part too. There's no problem at all to bolt the non adjustable sensor using the lower half of the FWD's cover. I think the earlier 4 wire adjustable crank sensor will bolt up with no problems to the original GN's timing cover. The FWD and the RWD covers have different widths where the crank sensor bolts up. I ran into a problem with the interrupter rings going in too deep into the crank sensor. I had to grind down the interrupter rings some to gain clearance in that area. If you run in a problem with the crank sensor being too far away from the interrupter rings you can always space it out some. I believe the earlier set-up with the adjustable crank sensor will work with less modifications. I have put up a page of what I done on my site. Quick reply to this message #43 Report Post Old 03-05-2007, 06:25 AM CTX-SLPR's Avatar CTX-SLPR CTX-SLPR is offline Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH Posts: 101 Ok, I'm using a Series II lower section and have the series II sensor and rings so those should all fit together. The problem so far is the upper section because the Series II lower is so much thinner it doesn't match well with either my production or Stage II drysump upper sections. Going to have to talk to the welder about that when he gets free. __________________ ------------------------------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-25-2006, 01:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Shifter ? Which Aftermarket shifters have the right *gating* for the 200R4's?. As I recall there were just 1-2 shifters that will really work out correctly for the 200R4. TIA __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 06-27-2006, 06:55 PM Bryan C.'s Avatar Bryan C. Bryan C. is offline Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Martin, TN Posts: 2,659 Send a message via Yahoo to Bryan C. The B&M Megashifter used to and I think the TCI Cheetah as well. They are hard to find now. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 06-27-2006, 06:58 PM WE4's Avatar WE4 WE4 is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wilton, Ca. Posts: 18 Thumbs up We use the: B&M Pro stick exclusivley. You must get the 4 spd gate plate but it is the best for the dollar. Now, Art Carr's ( The Original Art Carr) used to have a gated shifter similiar to the Turbo Action Cheetah, and it was a killer piece. But readily available and works GREAT is the Pro stick. That is what we use in the test car and I kill that thing. I also have one in 1BADGN and always raced with one in both the Super gas car and the super street car and the Super Stock Car. So... take it for what it is worth. They are tough and precise. Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 05:45 PM JayC's Avatar JayC JayC is offline Administrator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In The Ghetto Posts: 1,051 Send a message via Skype? to JayC The Hurst Quarter Stick is still available for the 200/4R.. I had one in my old car, I liked it. It was the old Quality Engineering piece.. very nicely done. Kirban sold it for a while too but I havent actually seen one in a car in a long time. __________________ ------------------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-22-2006, 04:25 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 An Engine Swap From time to time there have been folks asking about engine swaps. Since a friend of mine and I just started on one, I figured, that I'd share what all is involved in this project. Hrs of work, costs, parts, etc., etc.. *Time* is measured in old guy increments. Parts: A Used Level 10 transmission.............................worth ~$900 StageI block (for eventual use in this car).......................$500 Crank............................................. ...........................$500 87 GN Wiring Harness........................................... ........$125 LT1 wiring harness........................................... ............$175 Rolling Chassis *actually just a shell* (84 Ford Mustang) Varies tremendously. 99 Mustang spindles, and brakes....................................$260 K-Member, A-Arms, Coil-overs, C/C Plates......................$1090 NGK Wideband.......................................... ..................$299 Distributor Housing (no internals).....................................$10 Sheetmetal Valve Covers............................................ ..$125 8.8 Rear Axle (4 lug) (3.55, Posi)...................................$150 Comp Eng. Sub frame connectors...................................$100 Turn front rotors............................................ ...............$20 Front Pads.............................................. .....................$50 Weld-in, Bolt-in Subframe Connectors...............................$85 Scale fees for weighting trailer 2x......................................$8 02 Sunfire seats............................................. ...............$75 Manual Brake Conversion........................................ .......$199 86LX Doghouse fenders, hood, and bumper........................$51 OEM rear spoiler, no brake light........................................$10 Manual Rack+Pinion Conversion kit...................................$400 93 Cobra Brake M/C................................................. .....$107 Axle seals............................................. ........................$15 Used Axle.............................................. .........................$0 Rear Calipers (rebuilt)......................................... ...........$120 Rear Rotors............................................ .......................$90 Front Wiring Harness........................................... ............$36 Front Tie Rod Ends (wound up with SVO ones).....................$84 Front Struts............................................ .....................$110 Bundy Tubing/ fittings (for brakes).....................................$30 1997 3800 Ignition module, and harness (ebay)....................$60 Headlight Connectors........................................ ................$5 Construction Paper, for fitting Dash.....................................$2 Used 17" Rims.............................................. .................$320 Used rear tires............................................. .................$175 New front tires............................................. ................$185 Mount and Balance 4 tires............................................. ...$57 Misc Nuts, and bolts............................................. ............$9 Rear Axle Brake Caliper Brake Hoses....................................$74 Lokar TV Cable............................................. ...................$77 Lokar Throttle Cable............................................. ............$45 Lokar Tranny Dipstick (firewall mount)..................................$72 Front Directionals (pair)............................................ .........$15 Materials: Engine Degreaser......................................... ....................$5 Car Wash.............................................. .........................$5 Sanding Discs............................................. ...................$17 Lac Thinner........................................... ........................$11 Gasket/ Paint Scrappers......................................... ..........$10 14 cans Flat Black (for the interior)....................................$62 4 cans semi flat black............................................. .........$16 1 can starting fluid (undercoating removing)..........................$2 Welding Gas............................................... ....................$35 Objective: Making a reliable, street friendly 10 sec., street tired, hot rod. Methology: First is to make the car safe, do the brakes, Next is reliable, 8.8 rear axle, Update the suspension, ie coil-overs, optimise steering geometry (to a resonable degree) Finally add enough HP to do what it's intended to do. This also, means taking control of the ecm, and code. Just as *insurance* going to give 'er a full cage, legal into the 9s, just in case I get a wild hair about HP. To Do List: Gut what's left of the interior, and paint. Done Clean out underhood, and paint. Done Remove un-nessary wring. Done Assemble new front suspension, and brakes. Done Remove vac. brakes (and lines), and convert to manual. Done Replumb brake lines. Install manual R+P steering.......................................... .....Done Install seats. Rewire as necessary. Wire-up EFI harness. Develope Fuel delivery system. Rollcage Fab.. swap over rear brakes/ axles, to new housing.......................Done Finalize rear suspension decisions.......................................Do ne Engine mounting. Tranny mounting. Driveshaft. Throttle, and TV cable Shifter cable. Install alky injection. *Install F/M* Labor: 6/20/06 So far 4 hours in removing the last bits of the interior. 5 hours in sanding the hood. 6/21/06 An hour at the car wash. 6/22/06 2 hours prep, and paint on the hood, still some more to go. 6/23/06 4 hours scraping the *tar* sound deadening out of the interior. 6/24/06 Spent most of the day reading up on Suspension, and chassis parts. 6/25/06 4 more hours scraping interior *Note:* Using starting fluid as a cleaner works really well as it degreases better then brake cleaner. 6/26/06 4 more hours scarping, and the interior is ready for paint. Started plugging F/W holes Ordered the K-Member, A-Arms, Coil overs, and caster camber plates (14-21 day turn around) 6/27/06 1.5 hours with spray cans painting the interior. 6/30/06 2 hr Hunting the vendor's area at the Indy Event 7/03/06 4 hours stripping brakes off of the 8.8 rear axle 7/05/06 4 more hours painting interior, about an hr talking on the phone to vendors about parts 7/06/06 2 hours painting interior, more time at the car wash degreasing, disassembled front spindles, dropped them off to be turned, picked up sub frame connectors, noticed crushed gas tank, more underhood clean up 7/09/06 few more hours scraping goo off under hood. 7/10/06 Found a v8 Mustang with manual steering to *test drive*, I now know that manual steering isn't an issue, and will remove the power one. Just as a data point 205/50x16s on a full weight Mustang, is almost too effortless..... He was running a Flaming Rivers, *slow* R+P. More Net research.... 7/11/06 2 more hours scrapping goo off under the hood, removed cowl, cut P/S lines, removed clutch/ speedo cables. With the parts bill increasing decided to go with Carbon metallic Pads, trouble was the *right application was wrong*. Wound up going to Car Quest, and looking at the brake pad pictorial book to find the right pads, my 96 ebay spindles turned out to be 99's... So walked out with some $50 Raybestos pads. I'm just glad I hadn't ordered the $160 Hawk Pads..... 7/12/06 Towed over to the shop, to have the subframe connectors welded in. Removed front inner fender liners, fuel lines, misc crappe. Welded up seat floor pan crack. Welded in torque boxes. Moved cars around to get Stang into the workshop. AJE padkages arrived, so opened them and inspected the *goods*. think I'll take about a 6 hr nap...... Weighted the trailer while the Mustang was being welded on, and then again when it was done. Minus hood, and as mentioned gutted, and no powertrain, it's 1,680 lbs. One *goal* was to have it weight 1,000 lbs., less then the GN, and intially it looks like we might do it. 7/13/06 Couple dozen calls to follow up on yards looking for seats, and hit pay dirt. $75 for a set of real low mileage seats. Ordered Manual Brake Conversion. K-Member is sitting on the floor, had to grind one bolt off...... More under hood scrapping, 8 hr day. 7/14/06 More scrapping, disassemble K/Member/ front shocks. Grind clearance for the coil-overs on the shrut body. Pick up seats, strip off some hardware from another Mustang. 7/15+16/06 Researching IRS options, updates, costs, etc., etc.. Looks to be a dead end, due to prices. As light as this car is, and being a turbo, it probably'd worked out, but gads, everyone's really proud of the stuff, and it's reflected in the parts prices. 7/16/06 More underhood clean up, well over 1/2 way now.... Test fit late model Mustang rim, totally unsatisfactory, needs more back spacing, and it has 5.75" now..... 7/17/06 Phone tag with AJE, ball joints were on back order my A-Arms should ship today or tomorrow. More research..... 7/18/06 2 hrs. Almost done scrapping under the hood now. Have developed a plan of attack for the rust hood hinge area. Looks like it'll take some rims with ~7" of back spacing..... 7/19/06 2 hrs. Master Cylinder is out, Booster is out, Steering Column out, Dash out, more painting done, more scrapping. Brake lines are for sure junk. Dash looks intact, might wind up using it. Got the manual brake pedal conversion, the Ford set-up doesn't have a TCC switch so I have to incorporate one of my LeMans Brake Switches, it has both sets of contacts, within one switch body. Other then the 4 bolts holding the rear axle in, the car is *offically apart*.... ****One month**** since the project began........... 7/20/06 More underhood scrapping and painting (1.5 hr). Picture taking. Started studying how to redo the wiring. Started making patterns for fixing rusted out hood hinge areas. 7/21/06 K-Member is in. Lower A-Arms in. Started working on the harness, ya, lots of neat surprises there, Wires twisted together, household wire nuts, bare CU showing..... The lighting portion of the front harness looks OK, but the rest is junk, 7/22/06 Dropped off some of the Stage motor parts to machinist. Stripped clutch pedal out, and replaced the power brake pedal with the manual one. 7/23/06 Ordered some bits and pieces. One hood hinge backup plate done. Cleaned up and painted front sway bar. 7/24/06 Assemblied front coil-overs, and installed them. Installed front spindles. BTW, 5/5" = 15.88mm. It looks like some struts are 5/8", and some are 16mm. ~3 hrs. 7/25/06 Stripped unneeded wiring out of car.. Redid the hood hinge reinforcements. Removed some more *hard to access* sound deadening, it's ALL gone now. 2hrs 7/27/06 Picked up Doghouse, and spoiler. 7/28/06 Unloaded and cleaned up doghouse, spoiler. .5hr 7/31/06 Ordered Rack + Pinion from AJE, and 93 Cobra brake M/C from NAPA. Removed rear axle assembly. 5hr. 8/1/06 Recieved Rack + Pinion, bought shop manual. Bought some AN stuff to start planning out the front brakes. ~3hr. 8/2/06 Installed R+P, assembled interm steering shaft, removed axles from 8.8 axle, removed unnecessary brackets Discovered the Steering Kit was shy a tie-rod end, called AJE, and they said they'd have one on UPS today, if they hadn't been there yet. FWIW, they've been a great parts source. 8/3/06 The first real hassle..... The 7.5" rear end had new gears in it. But, whoever did the work must have really hammered on the center pin. Wound up having to cut an access section out of the case to be able to drive the pin out (Oh, BTW, there is only one way to get the pin out without hitting the ring gear, with 3.7s). 8/9/06 Front suspension is all together. Steering is ready to go in. Removed oem rear brake line. Mocked M/C in, started thinking about new routing of brake lines. More cleaning on rear axle, and painting of brackets. 8/10/06 Installed axles, bearings, seals. Lots of clean up work. 8/11/06 Welded axle tubes in. Started trimming the brakets off the 7.5" rear end, to fit the 8.8 to change the Anti-Squat. 8/12/06 Shop clean up, and photos. 9/5/06 After a 2 week *vacation*, back at it today. Removed dog house, and shuffled parts around the garage. Bought '99 Tie Rod ends. Held AL dash up and into place to make sure it was *too* large, and would need to be trimmed for final installation. Car is now on the ground, with the front end fully assembled, but with the wrong TR ends, and with the rear axle in. Did some preliminary weight estimates, and this thing should be, well, light..... Mapped out what to trim out of front bumper support. 9/6/06 Well, the old (facia) bumper support is an inch too deep, to work with the new nose. The SVO front struts hit the A-Arms preventing full lock... Later model struts look to be the answer. Cleaned out the innerds of the new dog house, and primered the interior of the front fenders. Installed the new nose, minus the bumper support. 9/7/06 Started to scuff and primer front fenders, and fill antennae hole. 9/10/06 Removed some of the glued on exterior trim, and cleaned off adhesives, and primed. Installed rear brakes. Mounted Passenger Seat. Scuffing on exterior paint, and priming continues. Checked rim clearance with late model used rim. Checked ride height with 400 lbs sitting on K-Member. 9/12/06 Installed pass seat. More paint scuffing. Checked 17" rim for clearance. Test fit Dash, started trimming some steel for Dash Support. 9/13/06 Installed Dr seat. Installed front caliper flex lines. Started on brake hard lines. More paint scuffing. Dropped tire and rim off at tire shop. 9/14/06 Finished front brake lines. More paint scuffing.... 9/15/06 Torqued down all the front suspension...... ***** Set the engine down in the engine bay! ! ! ! !***** Installed the front and rear wheels, and tires.................... After 3 months of almost daily work, it really is starting to look like a car..... Yehaaaaa..... 9/16/06 Spent most of the day talking to the local Chassis Shop guy about details of how I want the cage done, and when to drop 'er off for the cage install... 9/17/06 Dug the manifolds out off the one storage area, and dropped them off at the shop. Located a empty 200R4 case, and will pick it up tomorrow. 9/18/06 Pulled engine back out, and installed maifolds, turbo, and tranny case. **YEHAAA** Roughed out *centering* the engine, and hardware store run for misc nuts, and bolts. Then a run to the steel shop for some 3/16" material for the engine mount adapters. Swung by parts house to order tranny mount. Looks like the intercooler, and radiator will now be behind the header panel... 09/19/06 Cribbed, and recribbed, and recribbed the engine/ tranny trying to find the best position. Oh, and then cribbed, recribbed, and did it a few more times. Finally got to where things are *correct*. Gotta take the engine out, and hammer on the firewall for a while. There's a ridge about 1" and 2x4" that needs reconfigured. Also, gonna cut the K-Member's mountings off, and weld in a set of chassis side mounts, rather then using a pair of adapters. This should allow for a nice Down Pipe routing. As it sits now it looks like we have 2 possible routings for the Downpipe. I can't believe how much time went into this..... Probably gonna be a day or two massaging the firewall, cutting the K-Member, and fab'ing welding up the mounts...... 09/22/06 Removed engine, and cut up the original frame mounts. Instead of hammering the firewall, we elected to cut and weld in a *patch* panel to clear the R/R of the engine. Scuffing and sanding continued, roof rust was a lot worse then it appeared. 09/25/06 Finished welding in patch. Reinstalled engine/tranny. Cut patterns for new engine mounts. ****Going by the spark plug location, looks like this will be in fact a mid-engined car. Yep, the engine sits that far back...... 09/27/06 *******Started welding the motor mounts to gether******** In the photos you can see the pieces we but off the K-Member (the short tubing pieces with the flat plates). Then you can see the tubing that was welded to the new plates. There's also a pic of the piece we cut out of the firewall. I've lost track of how many times the engine was in and out, and how many times were measured things. But, we go the engine where we want it, and tomorrow, the gussets will be welded in. Then hopefully Fri., we'll start on the new tranny mount/ Cross-over. 09/29/06 Spent the morning parts chasing... Last edited by Bruce : 09-29-2006 at 09:23 AM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 06-27-2006, 09:52 AM weeee_6's Avatar weeee_6 weeee_6 is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Grand Haven and LeRoy, MI Posts: 307 Just curious. What is the LT1 hareness for? Sounds like it's going to be a fun ride! Bob __________________ Bob Smith '87 GN Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 06-27-2006, 11:33 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by weeee_6 Just curious. What is the LT1 hareness for? Sounds like it's going to be a fun ride! Just as a source for more correct color coded wire. Originally it was going to be used for another idea. I hate wires that change color within a harness.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 06-28-2006, 05:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 After several misting coats of black, this is what the interior looks like. Also, have the Firewall holes covered. Started scraping the undehood area, that's going to take a few days before it gets any paint. Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: Int0.jpg Views: 80 Size: 41.8 KB ID: 13652 Click image for larger version Name: Int1.jpg Views: 53 Size: 38.2 KB ID: 13653 Click image for larger version Name: Int2.jpg Views: 58 Size: 47.2 KB ID: 13654 Click image for larger version Name: Int3.jpg Views: 80 Size: 40.7 KB ID: 13655 Click image for larger version Name: Int4.jpg Views: 75 Size: 38.1 KB ID: 13656 Click image for larger version Name: Int5.jpg Views: 52 Size: 35.7 KB ID: 13657 Click image for larger version Name: Int6.jpg Views: 46 Size: 21.9 KB ID: 13658 Click image for larger version Name: Int7.jpg Views: 53 Size: 36.5 KB ID: 13659 Click image for larger version Name: DS1.jpg Views: 74 Size: 46.9 KB ID: 14012 Click image for larger version Name: FrontII.jpg Views: 72 Size: 45.0 KB ID: 14013 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Last edited by Bruce : 08-12-2006 at 02:20 PM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 07-14-2006, 11:20 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Update pictorially Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: Tonering.jpg Views: 44 Size: 43.3 KB ID: 13825 Click image for larger version Name: Seat.jpg Views: 47 Size: 35.3 KB ID: 13826 Click image for larger version Name: Santaatwork.jpg Views: 89 Size: 35.5 KB ID: 13827 Click image for larger version Name: Rightin.jpg Views: 50 Size: 42.6 KB ID: 13828 Click image for larger version Name: Leftin1.jpg Views: 45 Size: 48.9 KB ID: 13829 Click image for larger version Name: Leftin.jpg Views: 49 Size: 52.5 KB ID: 13830 Click image for larger version Name: KMember.jpg Views: 48 Size: 39.5 KB ID: 13831 Click image for larger version Name: KMem2.jpg Views: 42 Size: 42.4 KB ID: 13832 Click image for larger version Name: InDoor.jpg Views: 45 Size: 49.9 KB ID: 13833 Click image for larger version Name: Frontapart.jpg Views: 50 Size: 40.3 KB ID: 13834 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 07-14-2006, 11:21 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 More of the same Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: 88Rearend.jpg Views: 40 Size: 40.0 KB ID: 13835 Click image for larger version Name: 99SPindle.jpg Views: 37 Size: 43.3 KB ID: 13836 Click image for larger version Name: 99Spindle2.jpg Views: 45 Size: 36.2 KB ID: 13837 Click image for larger version Name: AlignPlate.jpg Views: 40 Size: 44.6 KB ID: 13838 Click image for larger version Name: Coilover.jpg Views: 47 Size: 38.5 KB ID: 13839 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 07-20-2006, 07:26 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 7/20/06 Pics Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: Dash1.jpg Views: 44 Size: 47.5 KB ID: 13875 Click image for larger version Name: Dash2.jpg Views: 45 Size: 47.4 KB ID: 13876 Click image for larger version Name: Dash3.jpg Views: 53 Size: 44.4 KB ID: 13877 Click image for larger version Name: EB1.jpg Views: 45 Size: 37.5 KB ID: 13878 Click image for larger version Name: EB2.jpg Views: 39 Size: 42.3 KB ID: 13879 Click image for larger version Name: EB3.jpg Views: 30 Size: 51.0 KB ID: 13880 Click image for larger version Name: EB4.jpg Views: 32 Size: 52.1 KB ID: 13881 Click image for larger version Name: HingeRust.jpg Views: 36 Size: 40.7 KB ID: 13882 Click image for larger version Name: Manbrake.jpg Views: 48 Size: 34.0 KB ID: 13883 Click image for larger version Name: Pedalassm.jpg Views: 42 Size: 38.5 KB ID: 13884 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 07-20-2006, 07:28 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 07/20/06 Con't Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: RHrust.jpg Views: 49 Size: 29.8 KB ID: 13885 Click image for larger version Name: Seats1.jpg Views: 51 Size: 36.8 KB ID: 13886 Click image for larger version Name: SteerCol.jpg Views: 59 Size: 36.5 KB ID: 13887 Click image for larger version Name: SteerCol1.jpg Views: 58 Size: 31.5 KB ID: 13888 Click image for larger version Name: UHWire.jpg Views: 44 Size: 42.2 KB ID: 13889 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 08-12-2006, 11:22 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 More pics M/C installation Front suspension installed Axle with brackets trimmed to accept *old* brackets off the 7.5" rear end, to change Anti-Squat U-Jointed steering shaft Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: Axle1.jpg Views: 34 Size: 41.7 KB ID: 14002 Click image for larger version Name: Axle2.jpg Views: 36 Size: 44.9 KB ID: 14003 Click image for larger version Name: LFinSTEER.jpg Views: 38 Size: 50.6 KB ID: 14004 Click image for larger version Name: LFoutSTEER.jpg Views: 58 Size: 38.6 KB ID: 14005 Click image for larger version Name: ManualMC.jpg Views: 49 Size: 36.6 KB ID: 14006 Click image for larger version Name: Oldbracket.jpg Views: 37 Size: 51.9 KB ID: 14007 Click image for larger version Name: Pedals.jpg Views: 39 Size: 51.9 KB ID: 14008 Click image for larger version Name: RFinSTERR.jpg Views: 39 Size: 38.4 KB ID: 14009 Click image for larger version Name: RFoutSTEER.jpg Views: 41 Size: 34.0 KB ID: 14010 Click image for larger version Name: Ujointshaft.jpg Views: 48 Size: 50.6 KB ID: 14011 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 09-16-2006, 05:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Misc pics Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: DSinterior.jpg Views: 37 Size: 41.4 KB ID: 14186 Click image for larger version Name: PassSeat.jpg Views: 23 Size: 36.4 KB ID: 14187 Click image for larger version Name: PassSeatA.jpg Views: 35 Size: 32.9 KB ID: 14188 Click image for larger version Name: RRBrake.jpg Views: 36 Size: 36.4 KB ID: 14189 Click image for larger version Name: Seats.jpg Views: 22 Size: 34.6 KB ID: 14190 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 09-16-2006, 05:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 ENGINE IN!! Well at least sitting about where it should be. Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: BrakeSwitch.jpg Views: 36 Size: 48.9 KB ID: 14191 Click image for larger version Name: Engine.jpg Views: 48 Size: 46.9 KB ID: 14192 Click image for larger version Name: EngineA.jpg Views: 40 Size: 53.8 KB ID: 14193 Click image for larger version Name: EngineB.jpg Views: 46 Size: 47.8 KB ID: 14194 Click image for larger version Name: EngineC.jpg Views: 72 Size: 42.5 KB ID: 14195 Click image for larger version Name: LRTire.jpg Views: 25 Size: 33.3 KB ID: 14196 Click image for larger version Name: LSide.jpg Views: 36 Size: 30.4 KB ID: 14197 Click image for larger version Name: Rear.jpg Views: 32 Size: 27.6 KB ID: 14198 Click image for larger version Name: RFTire.jpg Views: 38 Size: 39.7 KB ID: 14199 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 09-16-2006, 05:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Most first fitting pics..... Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: RRTire.jpg Views: 29 Size: 23.5 KB ID: 14200 Click image for larger version Name: RRTireA.jpg Views: 46 Size: 36.6 KB ID: 14201 Click image for larger version Name: Space.jpg Views: 38 Size: 52.5 KB ID: 14202 Click image for larger version Name: V6.jpg Views: 37 Size: 26.8 KB ID: 14203 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 09-27-2006, 04:26 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Engine Mount Pics Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: Brakes.jpg Views: 31 Size: 39.6 KB ID: 14270 Click image for larger version Name: Cutout.jpg Views: 26 Size: 44.5 KB ID: 14271 Click image for larger version Name: Cutout1.jpg Views: 32 Size: 43.0 KB ID: 14272 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount1.jpg Views: 39 Size: 43.5 KB ID: 14273 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount10.jpg Views: 19 Size: 41.2 KB ID: 14274 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount11.jpg Views: 41 Size: 35.3 KB ID: 14275 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount12.jpg Views: 42 Size: 38.6 KB ID: 14276 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount13.jpg Views: 20 Size: 36.2 KB ID: 14277 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount2.jpg Views: 26 Size: 36.3 KB ID: 14278 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount3.jpg Views: 37 Size: 31.1 KB ID: 14279 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 09-27-2006, 04:27 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 More mount pics Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version Name: EngMount4.jpg Views: 30 Size: 47.4 KB ID: 14280 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount5.jpg Views: 32 Size: 20.8 KB ID: 14281 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount6.jpg Views: 50 Size: 43.9 KB ID: 14282 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount7.jpg Views: 33 Size: 34.0 KB ID: 14283 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount8.jpg Views: 60 Size: 31.5 KB ID: 14284 Click image for larger version Name: EngMount9.jpg Views: 39 Size: 32.5 KB ID: 14285 Click image for larger version Name: Wing.jpg Views: 40 Size: 27.4 KB ID: 14286 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 11-10-2006, 05:07 AM turbopowered68's Avatar turbopowered68 turbopowered68 is offline Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: L.I New York Posts: 734 Send a message via AIM to turbopowered68 any up dates on this thing. __________________ 1968 chevelle (just started working on it again and getting it ready FOR SALE) 1987 Turbo Regal (needs work but not too Bad) Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 11-10-2006, 09:12 AM cwmccray cwmccray is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 3 HOLY SH1T..I have a 85 SVO that I was about to do the same to. Bruce, the MAD Scientist, have beat me to the PUNCH. I can tell you from the pictures, that car looks like a rare competiton prep SVO. I would keep the original pieces. Great work.. Keep us informed... Well Keep Me informed.... By the way, 2005 Mustang GT wheels fit perfectly... Go to SALEEN.COM and get a set of 2005 takeoffs ($299.00 wheels and tires... yes, I did say 17" wheels and tires). They look like Torque Thrust and can be painted BLACK... or what ever color you choose. Last edited by cwmccray : 11-10-2006 at 09:16 AM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 11-10-2006, 09:43 AM Reaper's Avatar Reaper Reaper is offline Pit Bitch Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Tempe, AZ Posts: 3,812 Send a message via AIM to Reaper Send a message via Yahoo to Reaper GUys, Bruce got sand in his Vagina and no longer post here. you'll have to check out TBs.com for updates. maybe ask nicely for him to come back cause I miss the dude! __________________ Save the Whales, Harpoon Fat chicks!!!!! www.arizonagn.com Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 05-01-2007, 06:13 AM turbopowered68's Avatar turbopowered68 turbopowered68 is offline Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: L.I New York Posts: 734 Send a message via AIM to turbopowered68 does he have the same name at TBS.com __________________ 1968 chevelle (just started working on it again and getting it ready FOR SALE) 1987 Turbo Regal (needs work but not too Bad) Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 05-13-2007, 07:10 PM Dave Jones Dave Jones is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Campbell, KY Posts: 7 Sadly, Bruce passed away last week. He will be missed. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #20 Report Post Old 05-13-2007, 07:26 PM JOHNDEEREGN's Avatar JOHNDEEREGN JOHNDEEREGN is online now T6P Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Go Big Red Posts: 6,709 Quote: Originally Posted by Dave Jones View Post Sadly, Bruce passed away last week. He will be missed. You are very correct.................... Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #21 Report Post Old 05-15-2007, 09:18 PM zbuickman's Avatar zbuickman zbuickman is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 312 Send a message via AIM to zbuickman Quote: Originally Posted by Dave Jones View Post Sadly, Bruce passed away last week. He will be missed. He helped me out immensely I learned alot from him. He WILL be missed __________________ ------------------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 19 votes, 1.21 average. Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 11-13-2005, 07:43 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Manual Brakes For those of you that just have to have a *light* effort brake pedal, this isn't for you. If you do want as close to failure proof as possible braking, then this is for you. Like all off road use modifiications, if you're not crystal clear on what your doing, farm the work out to a professional, or get as much help as you deem necessary to preform these types of modifications. There is no system as critical as the brakes, so again, proceed only if you know what your doing, or can get the necessary help to use the following information. The .pdf shows how to fabricate a blockoff plate, I just used the 3.95 dimension, and didn't slot the upper holes. If you look at the pedal.jpg you can see the stock hole in the pedal is almost .25" too low, so you might consider working with a PM type pedal, and drill your own hole in the *proper* location. The underhood pics show a 2000 Grand AM M/C, with the different line fittings. You can also see how it bolts up on the upper mounting bolts. A big *help* is getting a spare pedal braket, so that you can weld some 3/8" bolts to the braket from the back side. That way all you have to do is run the nuts down on the underhood side to mount everything up. You want just enough bolt hanging out, to do the job, other wise getting the bracket in place can be a real bear. Depending on what you use for the M/C push rod you may have to have a bushing made to reduce the N/A pedal hole down to 3/8". I used a 3/8" female heim, with a 3/8" fine bolt that I cut to lenght. In my case I have the LS1 front and rear brakes, so your master cylinder selection will be different depending on what brakes you're running. I also *gutted* the stock combination valve. While I did lose the pressure differential switch, the new master cylinder did had a low fluid sensor, so I still do have an indicator of possible leak. Update: No the master cylinder didn't have an attached pushrod, while a poor pic you can see in holder, holderII, and pushrod, where I welded in a *holder* inside the side plates of the pedal bracket that has a 1/2" hole for keeping the pushrod in the master cylinder. You never want to risk having the pushrod fall out of the master cylinder. Again while a poor pic you can see there is only one stoplight switch now. It's a Standard Brand SLS-141. It has two sets of contacts one N.O. and one N.C. Normally open being for the brake lights, and normally closed for the TCC. The no longer is a vacuum release for the cruise control with this set up. Just plugging the vacuum hose going to the cruise, returns it to normal service, but, you just don't have the vacuum release. *********************** 11/14/05 Please note the new picture, *NewArm*. It shows the stock PM arm, with a hole added, and the N/A vacuum booster pedal. The arm with the hole is a PM pedal that was drilled for use with the manual conversion. The difference is that hole is only 1 7/8" from the pivot point of the pedal, compared to the N/A pedal that is 2 3/16". Moving the hole closer to the pivot gives a slightly greater leverage, against the M/C.... The pedal effort is now really, really, really close to that of what it was with the vacuum brakes. The difference is at the extreme end of the scale if you're looking to lock up the brakes, it now takes a tad more pedal effort, but in reality you never want to lock up the brakes, since all it does is increase your stopping distance, and flat spots the tires. You can also see what the Heim Pushrod looks like. While I am prejudged, I'm thrilled with how everything works now. #4 Report Post Old 11-13-2005, 08:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by LV GN this is a very helpful article. thanks for taking the time.------ does your m/c have a fixed push rod? also with your m/c coming off of a 2000 grand am. did the grand am have manual brake's? or did you just use that style m/c? thanks. Len The 2000 GA had 4 wheel discs, and a remote ABS. It also had a low fluid warning sensor. I had tried the Trofeo one, but it was alot more $$. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 11-13-2005, 08:49 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Louie L Bruce, Good article. If I may add when you go to a manual master cyl the normal response for many is to move the rod attachment point high for less pedal effort. This can get you in trouble fast. I know as i did it after hearing from several racers. In my experience the new attachment point should be maybe 1/2 to 3/4 in. from the stock PM pedal point. This gives you a nice sturdy pedal, with some travel. Of course this going to vary from unit to unit. BTW I just installed a Strange MMC , the smaller bore unit on the stock PM to fire wall bracket. The pedal effort is not bad and i would even consider it on a street car. The N/A pedal arm in the pic shows the relocated pin position. I thought between the pic, and mention of using a bushing, I had covered that, but obviously not. I hope this corrects that.. This is what I'm using on my street car. I've been thou this several times, and this set-up is the one that's worked best. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 11-21-2005, 05:07 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by LiV4gnz is there any such abs on these that you guys ever heard of? Why?. With a properly designed system, premature lock-up, really isn't an issue. On loose gravel, ABS can be worse then non-ABS. It adds alot of complexity, for min results (if any) compared to a well designed system. For Pickup trucks, and vehicles have large variable payloads, tis another matter. The typical ABS units are now typically used to optimise the under sized brakes that are becoming increasing popular. If you want a high performance ABS, then the Bosch/ vette series is the one to investigate. Once you get away from the *numb* over assisted brakes that are sold nowadays, there's a whole new world in developing what *a braking threshold* is about. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message ---------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 07-19-2006, 04:49 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 More Ignition Car Craft Sept 06 Pg 113 Pics of Kenny D, Ecotec engine, looks to be running a *Blaster Coil* per cylinder. Gee, a *conventional coil* per cylinder, now where have I seen that?. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 07-19-2006, 12:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR hey Bruce, have you seen anything with the new MSD Stacker setups about possibly converting a Type II over to CN/OP? I just picked up 3 of the adapter blocks for $50 for the Accel 300+ overamp setup but I'd still like to move away from the wastespark just like everyone else does. You wouldn't happen to have a spare NA 3.8L laying around would you? I'm looking at making an NA monkey motor for my timing cover and ECM experiments so I don't risk breaking something expensive. Sorry, no. You still owe it to yourself to make it out here some time..... __________________ Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 07-23-2006, 08:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR I know, I know, I know, give me a few months and a truck and I'll bring my monkey motor up and we can play with the L67 OBDII stuff on the motor in NA mode On a more directly topic related note, is there a reason for the Accel 300+ boxes over say an MSD 6A or 6AL? The supply of the 300+ boxes on eBay seems to have dried up recently. I've never had any luck with the MSD boxes. At the time, the ACCELS weren't too hard to find, hou, I probably had 6+ months of waiting for em to become available. I wouldn't have a problem with Crane's CDs. THOU, rumor has it a practical CNP set-up is in the works for the TR's............... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 07-23-2006, 05:19 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR I like the sound of that.... Is the major difference between a Type II and a Type III (the Series II/III coil pack) just the wiring in the connector plug or is there a significant difference in how the internal module work? I actually have a Type I (square pack), Type II (LC2 compatable removable round pack), and a Type III (Series II/III removable round pack) all in my garage if you want to play with them though I would ask you not to destroy them as I need to run either the Type II or Type III depending on which harness and ECM I go with. Any system that uses the 3 window crank sensor is about the same, there might be a small difference in coil designs, but other then that they're about the same. The *Quick Start* with it's 3, and 18 window crank sensors get you an ignition system the synchs up in 60d or less of crank rotation. If you use a post 96 system you'll need the 3x18 set-up anywho..... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------- #9 Report Post Old 03-16-2006, 07:58 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SoCal GN When I worked for Saturn in SoCal, we helped build a Saturn Rally SC2 : Arrrgh, looks like a 59 Bugeye Sprite that lives near a nuke reactor... Kiddin, I kinda like that treatment, but is it just so frog like. ------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 05:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by sgtroy1031 42.5lb injectors with Caspers adj thumb wheel chip Again any ideas would be appreciated. There's just not much tunability with a thumb wheel. You'd do better with a Translator Plus. Or adding octane/ alky injection kit. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 08:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by sgtroy1031 Alky for 22 lbs of boost is great. Thats what I plan on doing once I get what I have going right. BUT 12lbs of boost and detnation over 6????? ARRRRRRRRRRRR Something is not good here!!! I understood your first post to mean that at 12 PSI you started to get retard, and it got as high as 6, going to whatever your *full* boost is. Is this something new?. Have you made any changes?. Or is it due to the weather?. How old are the tune-up components?. Got a WB?, what are your AFRs?. Got an EGT guage?, what are your EGTs?. Just slightly lean, and 2-3d too much timing can easily generate 6d of knock. Hence, my recommendation of trying some more octane, as a first *something to do*. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ---------------------------- Report Post Old 07-24-2006, 06:08 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by PB87GN At idle in park my IAC count reads 0 is this bad? If so how do i fix it? How's the car acting?. Some like 0. Close it slightly. ie back off the idle speed screw, 1/4 of a turn at a time, and test drive, til you get what the engine likes. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 07-25-2006, 03:36 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by PB87GN It idles a little rough but I have a pretty good size cam. The only thing the car does thats weird is sometimes taking off from a light it tries to die and sometimes when I get on it the car pops at high rpm The IAC and it's code just tries to maintain a given RPM for idle. Closed loop adjusts the mixture. If your BL numbers are reasonable, then you have other problems. What chip are you running?. __________________ -------------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 07-19-2006, 07:53 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by BoostisBetter Well....I have an assembled 84-5 3.8 shortblock that I am in the process of converting to a 86-7. I've read about people converting to the 4.1. I know the block is weaker and the pistons may need to be custom but I can use all of the other parts that I have. I was thinking about disassembling the shortblock to check clearances and such anyway( the shortblock was already assembled when I bought it). I don't have a turbo, torque converter, injectors or anything....my options are pretty open. I read the 4.1 receipe and it urged that if you have a good 86-7 engine don't go this route but I don't and the engine isn't even in the car or anything. So, I was thinking that, while I'm at that step I could more easily go this route. Would it be worth it? Any thoughts or opinions are much appreciated. Thanks in advance:D Weaker only if you're runninggggggggg a lot of HP. No substitute for cubes. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 07-20-2006, 07:30 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Archie The stock 85 short block will go in the tens. You could stick with that. Just as a FWIW, my Mule Engine is an 85, and I've never beat on an engine as hard as I have with that one, and it still is kicking. Thou, when an injector went south I cooked a piston, so now it's got an odd piston in it, and it's still making decent power. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 07-26-2006, 12:57 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by BoostisBetter So the nitrous would be just as harmful( not necessarily in the same respect) as running higher boost pressures on pump gas. But, the Alky would be safe due to it raising the octane level in which I could just crank up the boost.....within reason of course:D Yeah, I don't know a whole lot about nitrous and alky systems so I wasn't sure of the way that each effects combustion and such. Live and learn I guess. Detonation exists on two levels. Low level, and Hi. Some oem engines run with low level detonation for their entire lives, with no ill effects. Hi level starts doing engine damage, and can lead to preignition. Pre ignition instantly can lead to massive engine damage. With the K/S and code in service in the GNs, it starts to act only after the onset of detonation. The *thing* with NOS is that it can instantly lead to Hi Level Detonation/ pre-igntion faster then the ecm can compute what happened. If and when someone comes up with a reliable, and inexpensive ionization combustion chamber analyse system, then we'll all be able to run NOS, and feel safe. Till then you're just playing with fire. A BIG Front Mount Intercooler, and AlkyInjection, to date it the best way to min detonation, and get the max HP wise. FWIW, I run 87 Octane with the above, and have all the torque the tires can stand....... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 07-26-2006, 04:04 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Nitrous can lower intake temps ALOT and thus, reduce the chance of detonation if a "safe" A/F and timing are used. You can make more power using NO2. It's just a pain in the azz, and often unreliable. Spraying Alky is a safer option. (But not that much safer) Have you measured the MATs?. I've heard that claim, and just curious if anyone's done any real testing. And I mean with something in the 50-100 HP shot range. The other problem is you can't add fuel as fast as you can initially add the NOS, last I checked. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------ #2 Report Post Old 07-28-2006, 05:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Turbo Noob I know there's a couple of pics of these on a TR in the "wheel gallery" thread, but is anyone currently running these wheels, and if so, just the 9" wide on all four corners or the actual 11" ZR-1's in the rear? Either way, any fitment issues (do they rub, do they need spacers, etc)? I'm thinking of getting a set. TIA :anbet: I have the ZR1s, 9x17s front and rear. Used 2" spacers. IMO, you'd want to mount things up, and the figure out your wheel spacings exactly. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------- #9 Report Post Old 07-26-2006, 12:42 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Vacuum 6 1LE 3rd Gen F-body = 1984 thru 1992? Bolt right in our G-body? Why is too much roll resistance a bad thing? I personally like keeping my side mirrors from scraping the ground. :add_wegbr yep. Like most things in life, you can have too much of a good thing. The purpose of suspension, is to keep the tires in contact with the road surface. Too stiff of bar means it will carry a tire sooner, is raise it off the ground. The transistion from having it *bite*, to when it loses having much or any weight on it, can happen faster then catch it...... There are two avenues of suspension *preferences*, that will allow a car to corner well. Soft springs and shocks, with big sway bars, and then stiff springs and shocks, with thin sway bars. As heavy as a GN is, you have to go with the second set-up. Not to mention if you do stiff with all 3 the car loses it *comfort factor*. Now for corner *turn-in*, you can adjust that with side wall aspect ratios, instead of crutching things up with using like KYB shocks. FWIW, I went back to the stock front bar, when I got my HrParts and Stuff rear one. HTH __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 07-26-2006, 01:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Vacuum 6 I'm updating the car?s front end and looking for a nice looking cost effective used front bar since my current one is old, very pitted and looks like butt. Going to the bone yard and was wondering what car?s front bars work on the Buicks. Rather then worrying about it's cosmetics, I'd recommend poly end links, and bushings. Then be sure to set the bushings up so the bar rotates freely. Too often folks set the suspension up so *tight* that everything's in a bind. FWIW, setting a front end up right, with poly bushings in the A-Arms, can reduce the wheel rate by 50#/in.. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. -------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 1.00 average. Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-13-2006, 03:31 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Alky Info. If you don't have HPBooks Turbochargers by MacInnes, it's time for you to get a copy. Starting on Pg 133 he goes into fine detail about water/ alky injection, and has the charts, and graphs to document what he says. A couple items worthy of note, are that fuel will only work up until a certain point. Overly rich fuel can cause detonation. Also some test data from using 87 Octane gas. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 06-17-2006, 10:33 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by justabuickv6 Is it copyrighted? Can you scan the page and post it? Yes, there's a current copyright on it. There's LOTS of other good info., in it, for the ~$18 it's well worth the money, IMO. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 06-21-2006, 07:36 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Sixgun86gn I have that book and i also have Corky Bell's book Maximum boost.Very good reading and lots of great info about everything to do with turbocharging. So long as your ignore his *water injection is a band-aid, for a poorly designed system* (quote may not be per batum) comment. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 07-27-2006, 09:17 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR Why would WATER Injection not be a bandaid? Water just adds intert matter to the combustion system occupying space that could be taken up by another fuel such as alky? I agree that thermodynamically water does a better job of charge cooling but Alky helps raise the octane and is a constructive component of the combustion event instead of just a spectator. Because with water you can add more timing then with straight fuel. His premise is that you can run equally well without it, with a properly designed system, and in fact you can't. intert?, inert?. No it's by no means inert, since due to the heat of compression it disassociates into H, and O2. Same fuel and oxidizer as the space shuttle... __________________ Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 07-28-2006, 05:08 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR is there actually that much energy in there to disassociate water completely into atomic Hydrogen and Oxygen? Second question is wouldn't you want to run as little timing as possible, from a design standpoint, as it points to chamber burn ineffeciencies? Either way I'm going to be running PAC with methanol though I've heard that a 65% methanol, 35% water mix gives you all the same performance without the need for the expense of 100% methanol. According to *Glass*. You want to run the least amount of timing consistant with max HP/Tq. With my set-up, and I run 87 Octane, and Denatured alky. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 08-01-2006, 04:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by nathanstaaz theres always windsheild washer fluid Yes, I've run them back to back, and the denatured proved *nicer*. I don't know if it makes *that* much more HP, but the car pulls smoother with denatured. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. -------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 08-04-2006, 04:10 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by KenV6turbo Ok, no one guessed so I'll fill ya in........It a piston from the Miss Budweiser Unlimited hydroplane engine ( I use to build engines/crew for them) It's out of a 2,240 cid Rolls-Royce Griffon engine. The first really fasat anything I ever saw was an Unlimited Hydro, at the NY Boat Show as a kid. That was the Miss Bardahl (sp?). It just took my breath away to see her. Never had seen an unlimted hydro race, but as a kid we got to see some of the Thompson Racers, to include a GeeBee. Even to listen to an unlimited on TV, tells the story....... Been up close to a few tractor pullers with Allisons, and Turbines. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. -------------------------------- Report Post Old 08-04-2006, 04:30 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by MrLimitedT ? what do you think of him No much....... Seems like the underlaying theme, is the Germans are just so much smarter then the Americans. The whole Chrylser *deal*, seems to have been a complete bondoggle to let a failing co., get a leg up on the other car co.s, and then sell out to a foreign co.. Nice for the stock holders, but they got back into the game on my taxes, and then got rich off my taxes. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. --------------------------- Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 07-30-2006, 03:56 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by bkgnx i suffered a dislocated leg from hip and 4 herniated disc,and to top it all off i got offered by the insurance company a slap in the face .they offered me 800 dollars for my car. Oh man, I hope those injuries don't haunt you..... Whatever the Drs/ therapists say to do, *DO IT*, BTDT, in spades...... Your insurance guy wasn't your friend with hooking you up with that policy. I hate hearing about that sort of stuff..... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 07-30-2006, 04:02 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbopowered68 you guys need to at least get stated value ins. on your cars. And Comp.. saving a few bucks can be really expensive. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 02:01 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TSM Girl You guys are sick....if you want to see something funny, we could shoot one of you with the tazer in the testicals. That would be funny, I dont care WHO you are. Just need to find someone to do 51 in a 35, and then have enough attitude to need being taz'd. Sex has nothing to do with stupid. FWIW, I don't recall anyone claiming that Tazers are any where as near ballistically stable as *lead* ammo.. Personnally, I can understand a cop wanting to taz someone rather then get into a hand to hand slugfest. Not to mention that in these days, fighting someone hi on something that raises their threshold of pain, is a lot more frequent then in years past, as evidenced by the original posting. Just how under the influence does someone have to be to need that sort of treatment?. As quick as he's willing to try and get back up just shows how tolerant of pain he is, and how much effort it would take to get him cuffed if they had to resort to a slugfest. Care to guess, how many thumps with a *night stick*, it would have taken to get him to comply?. While yes there are dangers associated with tazers, there are some just as serious, if not more so dangers of being hit with a NS. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. --------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 4 votes, 1.00 average. Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 02-23-2006, 06:25 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 6 Coil DIS Well, I've finally got things bolted down, and wired up well enough to do some intial testing. The 6 coil part is that I used the DIS module, and instead of just firing 3 coils, I now fire 6. The module probably wouldn't handle firing 2x the current from 6 coils, so I used an ACCEL 300 CD ignition module with each coil. Those modules only reguire a 250ma, *sink* to fire. The intial findings are: Low load EGTs, are down 100dF. High load EGTs, are down 200dF. The idle speed is higher by 100 RPM, and smoother. There is a slight decrease in %TPS to maintain, freeway speeds. There was no signifigant change in AFRs. This comparison, is against a DIS system that had 3 ACCEL 300 CD ignition modules, each module firing one of the *normal* DIS coils. In adding the CD modules to the original set-up, I had to add some fuel to maintain the pre change, AFRs. Next up, is opening up the plug gaps, and seeing if the engine is less prone to high boost misses. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 02-24-2006, 05:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GNVYUS 1 Gas mileage difference Spark plug gaps and resulting spark blow out at high psi Spool up rpm change, foot brake etc Sound promising, but your not going to sell it any set ups right? What about working with Caspers and getting a piece of it like that? Hey Bruce, does this idea carry over to cars like my 91 Turbo Talon? They have issues with spark blow out and gaps around .28 doing it also. I'll be posting Tech updates, in the Library thread of the same name. The weather is supposed to turn to dodo tomorrow, so the plug gap testing is on hold..... Tip-in, ie off idle, response is better, without a doubt. This includes spooling, and *launches. Stuff like this is just too time consuming to be able to do in small runs, and make any money, since no one would want to pay all the labor. If you have a friend with a welder, and some basic wiring skills it's not too difficult to do. Not to mention buying 6 CDs, it took a while to find 6 on eBay, at good prices. So far, everything I've done to improve spark had needed gains. From N/A stuff in the 70's to this, it's always been worth while. In this case, I believe I've reached the limit of how much spark you can generate, given commercially available parts. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 02-25-2006, 11:01 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Here's a couple pics of what the coils lool like. Now that I have thinks working, I'll be pulling them apart, and painting them. Today's fun was installing some new plugs in cylinders 2-4-6, gapped at .048". On a long slow pull of 20 PSI, from a stop to 4,600 RPM, with the converter locked, not a hint of a miss....... Tomorrow, weather pending, it'll be all 6 at .055" Launching is just all sorts of laughs now. There is not *trying* to get it right. I used to have to *nurse* the engine slightly into launch mode, but now, just stab the brakes, and hit the gas. The AE in the lower RPM ranges, needs to be leaned out now. I still need to drop the min idle speed setting down a little more. In the pics, you can see the 3 nuts holding the ignition module in, it's now been relocated to the interior side of the A/S block off plate. Yes, I need to clean up the wiring, but the engine is due to be swapped, and I'll do a harness rework while it's out. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 02-26-2006, 12:33 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Yes, I've run the F.A.S.T. eDist setup using the early GM CNP coils. It worked well enough, but the cranking was always a little longer then I liked. Spark wise it was excellent. I could fire a .100" (no typo) plug gap at 18 PSI of boost. Once I figured out to run the GM *Quick Start* system, I switched to that. That system synchs up the coils in 120d or less of crank rotation. Just for the heck of it, I tried running 3 CDIs with the Type II coils, and had been perfectly happy with that... Then with all the discussion about Distributors, I figured, what the heck, and figured out the 6 coil DIS. So far it seems to be the best of all I've tried. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 02-26-2006, 12:38 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Today, I opened all the plug gaps up to .055" Still no missing, and again the idle speed was higher. At about 18 PSI I did get a few degrees of knock, which just verifies the *claim* that with a bigger/ better intial flame kernel, one can use less timing. EGTs remained the same, as well as cruise TPS vallues. I'll probably drop the gaps back a little, and once it warms up a little try fine tuning things, and see where I wind up. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 03-05-2006, 09:36 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Well..... Here are the first datalogging results from the 6 coil DIS. These are the corrections that some analysis software I have, has generated. Across the top are the MAP values, and along the L/H edge, RPM. A *0* entry means that not enough data was found to average out a final correction. The corrections are based on a max value of 255, a min of 0, and a *no correction needed value of 128*. The *target* AFR is 14.7:1. So a correction of 125 means fuel was removed, to maintain a 14.7:1, and a 130 would mean fuel had to be added. This data was collected at 55-75 MPH, basically just in cruise/ light load conditions. There was some low speed *running* before getting to freeway speed, as evidenced by the 1,000 RPM entries. So what does it mean?, It means that at the lower load areas, the engine could be leaned down, to maintain the 14.7:1 AFR, ie the *burn* is more complete. In the higher load areas, there is a demand for more fuel... Meaning that while under load, the better *burn*, can use more fuel in order to maintain the same AFR. **** Now for some really interesting stuff. What few people look at is that while a Turbo can make boost, it can also assist the engine in breathing while still in less then boost conditions. Pre 6 coil, I generally cruised with a max MAP of 65 K/Pa. In this log you can see that I was *cruising* with K/Pas ranging up to 95!. What this means is the turbo had enough exhaust flow, to start to spool it up at a MUCH lower load condition. ie better spooling..... And, this is with a TA-62 on a 85 long block, stock heads, 87 intake, Poston Headers, Cotton's F/M, 206/206 cammed *mule engine*. This is a really mild of engine combo.. --- Corrections --- 0,20,25,30,35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 400,0,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 600,0,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 800,0,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1000,0,0,0,0,123, 124, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1200,0,0,0,0,125, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1400,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 125, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1600,0,0,0,0,128, 130, 130, 129, 129, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 128, 0, 1800,0,0,0,0, 0, 125, 127, 126, 126, 128, 125, 123, 124, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2000,0,0,0,0, 0, 130, 127, 126, 127, 130, 126, 126, 129, 128, 131, 131, 0, 2200,0,0,0,0,128, 127, 123, 125, 125, 126, 125, 125, 124, 126, 129, 130, 0, 2400,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2800,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 3200,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 3600,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4000,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4400,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 4800,0,0,0,0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, Oh, and stay tuned, I did some WOT logging. The results there are also interesting, I just have to figure out how to post the results in an easy to understand way..... Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 04-08-2006, 08:28 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Filled the car with gas today, and even with having done a BUNCH of throttle stomps from idle/ stand still, got 17.5 MPG. In the previous tank, with a mix of highway, around town driving got right at 20 MPG. I can now reliably run a AFR of 17.5:1, with no trace of a miss. This tune is also for 87-89 gas, and whatever *lose* there is from dropping the timing back a few degrees, seems to be made up for by the fuel's faster burn. And if I'm in a real hurry, all I need to do is flip the Alkycontrol on. Oh, and running a .045" plug gap. Runs 25 PSI just fine. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 07-27-2006, 09:13 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR Bruce is this still running wastespark style? Those don't look like the Type II coils, where did you get them and let me get this straight... you have 6 Accel 300+ CD boxes hidden somewhere in the car? I'm certianly interested in this setup and for the sake of others rumaging around experimenting can you go a bit more indepth with how you wired this up? Yep. They're not, they're GM V8 TBI coils. Yep, 6 ACCEL 300 CD boxes behind the passenger's seat. The CD boxes are *low* draw triggering, so I have the boxes wired in pairs, with each pait connected to the three *outputs* of the igntion module (where the DIS coils would plug in). So while I have 6 coils, they're being fired in DIS mode (ie 2 at a time). __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 06:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by GNVYUS 1 Bruce are there any dwell issues with running the GM coils over the Buick coil? The DSM world is starting to dabble with the Chrysler 300m coil on plugs and are running into issues with the dwell time. They experiencing misses at certain rpms etc. BTW, the Chrysler coils were $36 at Murrays if I remember correctly. How many millijules does the Accell box put out? I believe the AEM C2DI box for $300 puts out 186 which is a ton of spark energy. Dwell is a none issue when you're using CDI ignition modules. Not to mention that in DIS mode, they're only firing 1/3 as often as when used in a conventional ignition system. My only comment about Chrysler ignitions, is *I'm not surprised*. Brand: Accel Product Line: Accel 300+ Digital Ignition and Coil Kits Circuitry: Digital Rev Limiter: Yes Ignition Box Output: Capacitive discharge Timing Retard: None CD Voltage Output to Coil: 525 V Minimum Operating Voltage: 8 V Maximum Operating Voltage: 18 V Current Draw: 0.6 amps per 1,000 rpm Spark Output (millijoules): 135 Millijoules Length (in): 4.25 Height (in): 2.00 Width (in): 3.00 Ignition Box Color: Black Maximum Voltage: 48,000 As installed, I can trigger a *BLUE* spark an inch in lenght. Dunno other then in a Nitro class where you'd need more then that. I've also tried running an .045" gap at 28 PSI, successfully. And with the alky on, at .035" gap, 28 PSI, and 35d timing, it operates flawlessly. With this system, while there are 6 boxes, unlike a single box unit, I can limp home by bypassing any module, and all the parts of available basically over the counter at any parts store. You also can use *fast time* rise coils, but, IMO, in an application like this, it'll cost you *power* at the sparl plug gap. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote ----------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 1.00 average. Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 08-06-2006, 07:35 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Answers from the Engineers...... Why do the GN MAFs have 2 screens?. Why would blow thur MAFs work better?. Tornados and why they work?, All answered in this .doc........ Some of the intersting stuff starts on pg 68, and 130. Terms to help you through it all, Backflow, prerotation, vortex. http://caltechbook.library.caltech.e...03/pumbook.pdf __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ---------------------------- #2 Report Post Old 08-06-2006, 03:20 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by nathanstaaz does anyone see any advantages/disadvantages to having metal endtanks on a powerstroke i/c swap as opposed to plastic end tanks. (does it perform better... make the install easyer etc... The metal ones are weldable, should the need arise. ------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 08-02-2006, 06:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by KenV6turbo Hell, my VCR still flashes 12:00 and I can't figure THAT out either Ken B ?????? What else should they flash? ________________ -------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 08-07-2006, 12:38 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by xrunner123 New oil change about 50 miles ago. Cold idle is 60psi or so Hot is 15-20 and at 2000 rpms it is 60psi, 4000 rpm it is about 70psi It jumps up real fast and is not linear with rpm. Does this sound right? I have an electrical oil gauge. Should I get a mechanical one? Close enough. Mechanical just affords you more points for failure. Ask me about breaking an oil pressure guage line, at the 1,000' mark, and having to drive looking out the side window (the windshield was nothing but an oily mess). __________________ ------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 05-28-2006, 12:10 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN NOT What's the big deal?, knocking a lil ball back and forth across a table... It's not like changing #6 spark plug in a TR...... Reply With Quote ------------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 08-07-2006, 03:48 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 WB Price War NGK comes out with one for $199, now this. http://www.plxdevices.com/NewsLetters/Aug06.jpg __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 08-09-2006, 04:27 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by nathanstaaz Has anyone ever had an ignition module go bad which as a result nuked the prom chip and/or the ecm. and now for my really stupid question. when the ignition module goes bad does it crack that gooey laminate that coats the top or is there no way to tell it went bad except buying a new one? im still having prom gremlins and am about to try a new module but it it non returnable if plugged in so i have no choice. thanks. It could happen, but I've never seen it. The only way to really tell if it's bad, is by replacing it. If you only option is a Wells brand module replacement, don't expect it to fix your problem. __________________ Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 08-11-2006, 03:49 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Brer Rabbit Is it possible for a module to test fine but then go bad after being put into use for a short time. Unless they heat the module, and shake it at the same time, it can test good and still be bad. Underhood temps of over 230dF, aren't rare at all on a hot summers day. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. --------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 08-11-2006, 03:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Most chips have way too much timing in the lower load areas, and can drive the oil temps way up. Rendering rod bearings to junk. Add just being a little tight on clearances, and a new motor can trash em quickly. Have you watched the oil temps.?. Using an oil cooler?. Using *normal* engine oil?. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------- Quick reply to this message #25 Report Post Old 08-06-2006, 03:29 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 I dunno the answer, but a few guys I know have really been stung in getting their dream homes. Dumb stuff......, like the wrong motar brick combo. and all the outside bricks of the house were loose... Another one was so air tight, that it wound up being a petri dish for mold. Another that in a high wind, sounds like some of the siding is leaving for a better climate. Some of the new contruction technics, seem to be geared for only making the house as cheap as possible to erect to meet code. And if the code is crappe, so will the house. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 08-14-2006, 08:14 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr I was just curious what my wife's turbo car had for ignition timing. Turbo 4cylinder. I was looking for something to give me more confidence that I was in the right ball park. Excellent group of stickies at the top here: http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/diy-prom Cruise AFRs are kind of a joke. Once you *get* that it takes x amount of energy to push a car down the road, you'll see the PW is almost a constant, but the throttle opening changes, and that's what changes the AFR. Once you optimize the timing, and PW, the AFR falls into place. The TR oem timing at cruise is for use with EGR. I'm running ~38d at cruise, and have much better oil temps., then at 48d. The big trick to tuning is understanding what's making the engine happy, and not doing what you think might be best. Lots of note taking will allow you to look at trends at what makes the engine happy, and prevent you from repeating things that didn't work. Unless, your racing, then you want to run the least amount of timing consistant with the best performance. Tuning to the threshold of knock on a street car is almost an assured way of knocking the corners off the pistons given time. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 08-13-2006, 02:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps_Mktp84Jk A few years ago, after the annual town celebration, some of the guys starting having *tug of Wars*, on the tractor pulling track. The winner?, the local heavy rescue Ambulance..... Did I ask?. Do you know why you see so many Deere Tractors at the antique tractor shows?..... The Fords are still working the fields.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. --------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 08-13-2006, 05:55 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Something to Save The following is from an ad by Clorox: ------------------------------------------------------ Boiling Is Best Short of using a very high-quality water filter, this is the most reliable method for killing microbes and parasites. Bring water to a rolling boil and keep it simmering for at least several minutes. Add one minute of boiling to the initial 10 minutes for every 1,000 feet above sea level. Cover the pot to shorten boiling time and conserve fuel. Liquid Clorox Bleach In an emergency, think of this (one gallon of Regular Clorox Bleach) as 3,800 gallons of drinking water. When the tap water stops flowing, Regular Clorox Bleach isn't just a laundry-aid, it's a lifesaver. Use it to purify water, and you'll have something to drink. It's the same in any natural disaster. As the shock wears off and the days wear on, the biggest demand is for drinking water. Time after time, relief crews hand out free Clorox Bleach with simple instructions: use it to kill bacteria in your water and you'll have purified water to drink. Here's how: (Store these directions with your emergency bottle of Clorox Bleach.) First let water stand until particles settle. Pour the clear water into an uncontaminated container and add Regular Clorox Bleach per the chart.* Mix well. Wait 30 min. Water should have a slight bleach odor. If not, repeat dose. Wait 15 min. Sniff again. Keep an eyedropper taped to your emergency bottle of Clorox Bleach, since purifying small amounts of water requires only a few drops. See chart* suggestions for storage bottle replacement. Don't pour purified water into contaminated containers. To sanitize water jugs first, see instructions** at right. Without water and electricity, even everyday tasks are tough. In lieu of steaming hot water, sanitize dishes with a little Clorox Bleach. Just follow the directions below to keep dishes clean. Whether you use Clorox Bleach in an emergency or for everyday chores, it's always an environmentally sound choice. After its work is done, Clorox Bleach breaks down to little more than salt and water, which is good news anytime. *Ratio of Clorox Bleach to Water for Purification 2 drops of Regular Clorox Bleach per quart of water 8 drops of Regular Clorox Bleach per gallon of water 1/2 teaspoon Regular Clorox Bleach per five gallons of water If water is cloudy, double the recommended dosages of Clorox Bleach. (Only use Regular Clorox Bleach (not Fresh Scent or Lemon Fresh). To insure that Clorox Bleach is at its full strength, replace your storage bottle every three months.) **(Clorox Bleach Sanitizing Solution) Mix 1 tablespoon Regular Clorox Bleach with one gallon of water. Always wash and rinse items first, then let each item soak in Clorox Bleach Sanitizing Solution for 2 minutes. Drain and air dry. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 08-13-2006, 07:19 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN Are we gonna need this soon Bruce PS-thanks for the info Dunno, but, one has to give pause to what the not too distant future might hold for us. Not to mention Mother Nature. ---------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #22 Report Post Old 07-23-2006, 09:07 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Used to go hiking in the high Desert, 115dF was no big deal. 30 years later, I'd just as soon sit in an A/C'd anything, then be in that much heat. Lately the temps here have hit 90+. Anymore, I enjoy living in a climate, that has all four seasons.... __________________ ---------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 08-15-2006, 04:13 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by redneckcutlass there is a totaled 84 Grand National that i know of near the atlanta area that i have concidered pulling the turbo for my 84 Olds cutlass with a buick V-6, other than the expense of forged pistons and rings how easy would the installation of a turbo on a normally aspirated engine be to pull off, and i wonder if anyone has done this before? In your sign you say a TA-45. That's getting into the serious HP level, and you want some serious heads to fully use it. The weak spot is the 231 N/A crank. If you would settle for something like a 60 Turbo, I'd say, that'd be an OK combo. More then that, or even perfectly tuned with that would be about all I'd try with a N/A crank, for the street. YMMV __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 04:31 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Josh Kinzey I am at 18 PSI with 7 gallons of 93 and 1 gallon of Toulene. I am afraid that it may be knocking and I don't know it. Is it possible that it is knocking, yet pulling as smoothly and as cleanly as you could ever imagine? Just remember Toluene does cause Brain Damage if not handled properly. The MSD sheets aren't to be ignored. With that much toluene you *should* in theory be safe. But, all that means is detonation isn't going to kill your engine in the end. You can still wear the rod bearings out, if you're running too much timing, and too high of oil temp.. Yep, can happen. The ecm can pull *some* timing and keep you out of detonation. But, it'll put out a lil more then needed, and then you'll be running at less the optimum. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 04:35 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Josh Kinzey I was really hoping that those more experienced with TR's could tell me if preigintion is fairly obvious, or if the stock computer is really that good at hiding it. An engine can live with low levels of detonation for along time. An engine can live not too long with high levels of detonation. An engine can die almost instantly when in preignition. A knock sense can hear detonation, pre-ignition can be silent, right up until the parts start breaking. While both preignition and detonation are both forms of abnormal combustion, they're completely different. Lots of people talk/ act, they're the same thing, and they're not. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 09:17 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM According to this chart, please correct me if I am wrong, a mixture of such an additive would only give you 95-96 octane He was running fine at 16 PSI of boost, and now 18 with 2-3 more points of octane. What's the problem with *only give you 95-96 octane*, if that's all he needs?. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 06:12 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Josh Kinzey The car has the factory oil cooler in place, so I think oil temp should be controlled. Could you elaborate on how too much timing can cause premature rod bearing wear? Optimum doesn't really concern me, engine damage does though. I just want to be sure that I am not experiencing knock is all. Without actually measuring the temp., you just don't know. The stock system is designed for a stock engine. Up the HP level, and the engine makes more heat. Oil loses it's ability to lubricate as it's temp increases. While some offer a higher temp before it completely breaks down, there a big gray area between those two points. Typically people just tune to the limit of octane they're using, without fine tuning. The best way to know if your into any phases of abnormal combustion, is to use all the tools possible to see if it's accuring. Plug readings, EGTs, AFRs, are all indicators to keep you out of trouble. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 06:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Josh Kinzey Is this the difference between detonation and preingniton? Pre-igntion is lighting off the mixture prior to the spark plug firing. Usually due to a hot spot on the piston or valve and extreme DCR. Detonation is small pockets of unburned mixture lighting at the wrong time, or lighting off in conjunction with the main mixture, but causing an abnormal surge of force in cylinder. What's knock then? Is 'knock' a term that encompasses all of the above? The Buick crowd must see detonation, not pre-ignitoin, right? Might note that pre-ignition starts. er can start, at much as 100d BTDC. That puts the cylinders peak pressure, wayyyyy the heck before BTDC...... *Knock* is a generic term... It can mean any form of abnormal combustion, but as used by GM with it's *Knock Sensor*, it's only about detonation. Detonation's flame front is at supersonic speeds, and thus give off a frequency relaitve to cylinder diameter. (That's a real short version of what's going on). Detonation can lead to pre-ignition, BUT pre-ignition can be spontaneous... Often people diagnose problems as being detonation, since they're not familiar with the finer points of what PI damage looks like.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 06:20 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Josh Kinzey So you think with higher octane gas, 18 PSI on all the stock stuff is OK? Even with no way to monitor timing retard? I based my statements on the information you supplied. No, I don't think one should run without monitoring the retard function of the ecm. FWIW, I've run a Scanmaster from about day one with my car. I also spent A LOT of time working on the tune, and code, for keeping my engine intact. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 08-05-2006, 06:52 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Josh Kinzey Is there a common thresh hold where knock begins? 16 PSI and 93 octane for example? I realize it will be different for every car, but is there a common limit/level where knock becomes prevalent? Not in my world, tho others will argue the point. With all the recent changes in fuels due to the EPA, in the additive packages, I'd never *assume* anything. And while I mentioned the Scan Master for timing, I also run a WB, and if *in it* turn the EGT guage on. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. -------------------------- Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 06-16-2006, 04:21 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 It's just so sad seeing young men being robbed of legal racing. How the powers to be expect young men to channel their hormones, and adrenaline in a legal manner, when they deny them ever chance to?. And the powers to be, wonder why, there are turf wars, and road rage. It's just incredible how short sighted people that should know better are. ------------------------ Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 01:04 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Trying my best to do it correctly, any suggestions are still welcome! I'd work on incorporating allot of diagnals, and gussets into the cage. Also, the cage would be welded to the frame, with large *spreader plates* (backing plates). The trick to having a working suspension is having the suspension being tied to a solid chassis. Reading Herb Adams Chassis Design, and the Mopar Direct Books all give good ideas of how the masters do this sort of thing. Another great source of understanding chassis design is looking at motorcycles, and how they deal with various loads, the new AL ones, are alot less then obvious to understand, but an old Yamaha or Kawi Road Racer has all the detail you need to see..... Then you want to solidly mount the body to the chassis, and use it as a stressed member rather then having it just hang, be a bracket that things bolt to. You look to have the brakes, and suspension done, just as I'd do them. Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 05-05-2006, 02:40 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM If everything goes as plan we will have a 2 week cushion, and that is allowing for a week of screw ups You do know how time flies when your having fun, don't cha?. Around here, we have what's called BruceTime.... What should take weeks turns into years..... ----------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 07-30-2006, 07:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by V6 Power Why does the Lightning just die when it shifts from gear to gear. While just around town, the one I drove (Lightning) had the world's worse traction control. When it *hit*, you'd about hit your head on the dash..... Ya it was that bad.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 08-14-2006, 06:58 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM What do you guys think about this, I say as long as the rules stay the same let her play! Wouldn't you hate to be the first guy she levels Aren't there women leagues?. I just don't get all the hoopla about kicking pig skins, or hitting balls with a bat, and running around bases. Not to mention the salaries are wacko, IMO. Sounds like her parents could have used a few clues, about there being more then one child in the family. What *gets* me is when they start changing the rules so that women can *play* in a man's world/ game. If she wants to be a man, then all the same rules should apply, ie no special men's (women's) room. Same padding, or lack of it. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 ------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 07-30-2006, 07:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 External Double Pumper Anyone have any experience with an external Double Pumper?. Gonna be adding a sump, and beings primarily a street car, a double pumper seems the best answer. TIA __________________ Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 07-31-2006, 04:19 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by gnxtc2 Personally, I would run an Aeromotive with the controller. I don't like DP for the simple reason if one goes bad or doesn't turn on, you have no way of knowing it's not running until you blow something up. I was hoping of less expensive way. A controller can fail internally, and leave you with only the *low side*.. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 07-31-2006, 03:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR Why go external at all, especially since its a street car? That's the way it was in oem form, in this case. With dual externals, swapping one for another, is easy, and you can get a lot of life from swapping them back and forth. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 07-31-2006, 03:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JayC After the experience Ive had with sumps, Ill never do that again. Care to share what the problems were?. Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 08-01-2006, 08:24 AM JayC's Avatar JayC JayC is offline Administrator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: In The Ghetto Posts: 1,051 Send a message via Skype? to JayC Well, basically there are a couple of things you need to know if you plan to do a sump. 1 - You gotta cut the crap out of the baffle inside to get the fuel back to the sump. So you're gonna be rinsing for a while to get all the little plastic shards out. That in itself is no big deal, more of a PITA. 2 - The sumps rust.. and by rust, I actually mean RUST. I've done a sump twice on two different tanks and the rusting was so bad that inside of a month the tank was unusable and I was having to clean out the fuel filter once a week or so. The first time it happened, the filter got so packed with rust that the car wouldn't run. If you find someone local who can reline the inside of the tank, you'll probably be okay. I think Eastwood may actually sell gas tank coating you can DIY. Problem is, and Bruce, this probably won't have any effect on you because you run pump gas, is that most of the stuff I could find to reline the tanks with breaks down when you use high octane fuel. Radiator shops sometime offer the service and I think motorcycle places may sell stuff to reline motorcycle tanks as well. Bottom line, if you put it in without relining it, it won't last a month. If you use race gas, I dunno what will happen. Everything I could find for relining would only handle up to about 100 octane. __________________ Jay Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 08-02-2006, 08:05 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JayC Well.. Thanks, That's enough for me...... Guess, it's back to the idea of using an accumlator of some sort.... Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 08-07-2006, 07:06 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Razor Not needed with your alky system. I run a 307 single. HTH I have 2 cars. One has your system on it, and I'm building another car. I really like the way the first one worked out, ie just misting in a lil alky, and using a F/M. I can go for a few weeks on just one tank of alky. So I was basically considering just another version of what I got working. Yes, I'll be ordering another system from you as we get closer to completion.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. --------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 09-01-2006, 08:04 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr View Post I see most cars having much lower timing. The engine is moving sooo slooow at 800-1000, why would we need to give the flame such a head start? The stock chip is around 20-22 degrees, can you explain why we would possibly need 35 degrees of timing at idle with a FAST system?? WOT is easy to tune, but trying to get that factory feeling of a clean tune during street driving is hard to do. I feel happy with the way my car runs now. No more stalling trying to pull up into an intersection. (bumping the gas) You shouldn't, unless you have a lot of overlap, and the engine is self ERG'ing due to both valves being open so long at idle. You shouldn't need anything near 35d unless you have a ton of overlap, the code has an error, or someone missed the tune. Too rich with too much timing, always feels stronger, but the only way to see how well a car pulls off idle, is with datalogging, or meaduring 60' times. Yes, WOT is a piece of cake, whereas true drivibility takes a ton of tuning. I've had to add a bunch of tables to get what I consider oem like drivibility out of my car. BTW, I also only run about 36-38d of timing during cruise...... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 09-01-2006, 02:09 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper View Post He calls today and tells me they want 120 bucks to install the end links. that just seems way out of line.... Are you sure that's not including the alignment?. Depending on where the shop's located, that might be *right*, thou. It's also a two edged sword, folks want top ntoch mechanics, but then complain about shop rates. A good mechanic, ain't gonna work for free... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. -------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 09-01-2006, 08:14 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM View Post Is it just me or would you have shot this big sucker on sight:omfg: :yikes: Why even attempt to cage it:add_wegbr Snakes are for making wallets out of. Thou some say they taste like chicken (I think it was a beer drinker that said that). __________________ -------------------------- Old 09-02-2006, 10:16 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN View Post :yikes: :shocked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICLw_Y-WuuI Compete and total idiocy..... The GT40 driver doesn't have the attention span to keep track of the directionsals, and thinks he has the ability to drive fast (in traffic no less). What a numb skull. Shame is, he'll probably kill some innocent, and not have a clue as to why it even happened. __________________ ------------------------ Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 09-01-2006, 02:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by bullet87 View Post Anyone heard of to much oil pressure going to your turbo, making you blow smoke or messing up a seal. What can be done to fix this if its a problem? Once the seal is blown, it's history. In the Power Book they show a restrictor, and using -4 line. I've been using -4 line with my trubo saver for years. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 09-03-2006, 06:28 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by opeltwinturbo View Post Wonder the magical formula is for supply oil vs. return line size? None that I've ever read. The smallest I've seen mentioned is -8 (.5"). __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------ #12 Report Post Old 09-04-2006, 02:42 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Have you tried wiggling the light dimmer thumbwheel?. They can *corrode up*. Take a look inside the trunk in the L/R corner, and look at the connector.. It has 18 different metals in it, and can also corrode. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 1.00 average. Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 08-31-2006, 03:48 PM nathanstaaz nathanstaaz is offline Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Tucson Az Posts: 233 Send a message via AIM to nathanstaaz toluene vs xylene why does everyone seem to support xylene over toluene when as i understand toluene has a much higher octane rating and it is not corrosive? Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 09-01-2006, 02:12 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 It's a contact poison, and will instantly start killing off brain cells. Before handling any fuel additive, you might look us the MSD for the chem your considering. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 09-04-2006, 07:31 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 30 seconds Googling revealed these links. https://www.mathesontrigas.com/pdfs/...%20po ison%22 http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/toluene.htm Even gasoline is far different then what it was years ago. Again, read the MSDS about whatever it is your thinking of playing with. Chronic breathing problems, are nothing to make light of..... Once you damage lung or brain tissue, that's it, it doesn't just get better or heal. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ---------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #20 Report Post Old 02-12-2006, 10:34 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 In my experience the problem with NO is in the initial turn on. The accleration rates are just huge depending on the amount you're adding. Doing it in stages helps, but, IMO, there still should be a better way. Not to mention, getting around the lag between when you start adding NO, and when you can get enough fuel added. I've always wanted to try adding an accumlator of some sort to dampen the onrush of the NO. It would seem that one of the J+S Safeguards would be more then enough to handle any detonation, and using an ecm with a true *Burst Knock Routine* (like GM does with most of the oem ecms), would make it all but a no brainer to get the timing handled. With some minor adaption, of the launching routines, and passive Traction Control, NO is long overdo for some real gains for the average user, IMO. ------------------------------------ Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 09-10-2006, 11:28 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by nathanstaaz View Post can having an air temp sensor plugged into the harness but not hooked into the intake pipe have any effects on performance. i was at the drag strip last night and noticed on the scanmaster that the air temp sensor was flashing HOT. what is the point of that thing anyways, is it for fuel enrichment or what. It flashes at temps over 140dF. Which isn't too hard to do, on a hot day, or prolonged staging, drive throughs. The IAT timing area, is 0'd out. yes, it's used for a fueling correction. It's generally not that big of temp change from outside the pipe, to inside it. Unless, you have a good cold air kit. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 09-10-2006, 05:30 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr View Post Really? What flashes? Do we have some dash light I don't know about? (edit, I see, the scanmaster flashes the word "HOT"??) It's just the Scanmaster that flashes hot, when the IAT/MAT goes over 140. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------------------- #9 Report Post Old 09-10-2006, 08:24 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 9/11, was picked because it was the day the one cleric that was in on the first WTC bombing was to be sentenced. What gets me, is how Bin Laden said that the US doesn't have the stomach for war, or the resolve to see it through, and that so many *Americans* are letting him be right. There was a show on THC where they had one of the radical Muslim clerics from England ranting. It was hard to tell him from the likes of Kerry. He acussed the US of being evil for what we did in Nam. What a moron, all we did in Nam was try and prevent the Communists from going on their killing sprees. Anyone, pay any attention to what was going on before we got involved, and what happened after we left?. Yep, more of the cowardly having written history to protray the US as being the bad guys. Shooting at Americans, or blowing up US property should never be taken lightly. WMDs be darned, people ought to read, and remember the US Resolution that the US Congress approved for the war, not just what the cowards in the media, like to yammer about. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 09-10-2006, 11:32 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by RobsIron View Post Never Forget. Worse than Pearl Harbor. Not to mention that at the time, Hawaii was just a port the US fleet used, and wasn't a state. How times have changed, now the US mainland gets attacked, and in just a couple years Joe Average goes brain dead about the importance of that..... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #15 Report Post Old 09-11-2006, 03:22 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by vicious6 View Post It seems like people have forgotten what is is to be American any more. Spending all thi9s money to help people in foreign countries and so much needs to be done right here at home. Look at Ford and GM for example. No one seems to care, just buying imports left and right. Being American also means being generous. While yes, we need to be more conscience of where we spend our money, we do need to share in the blessings we've been given. People are being terribly short sighted in major purchases. Thinking China or Japan are our friends, is pure idiocy. Look at their track records about how they respect human rights. The Japanese during WWII were totally ruthless with the Chinese during WWII. Not to mention their attack on Pearl. They're basic mind set hasn't changed, IMO. China, is still a sleeping giant, just wait till they get further along industrializing their economy..... This careless disreguard, for where the profits from our spending goes, is going to start getting more and more serious. It's the spending of profits, that generates the taxes for funding our infrastucture. Letting the profits from car sales going abroad unchecked will only get more serious with time. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #17 Report Post Old 09-11-2006, 05:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboCutlass View Post The war has nothing to do with 9/11. We were not attacked by Iraq. The war has nothing to do with freedom. It's about $$$$$$. OIL = $$$$$. What happened on 9/11 was a terrible thing, but the war has nothing to do with it. You might spend a few minutes, looking up the resolution for why the US went to war in Iraq. Why is it you don't consider Iraq as shooting at American War Planes, as not being an act of war?. I'm sure glad you weren't around when Pearl Harbor was attacked. After all it wasn't a state of the US. Should we have ignored the war in Europe?, and just let the Germans conquer it, and then have tried to fight her?. Personnally, I don't want to wait around til the war has to be fought on American Soil. Can you paste something that connects the dots about the war being for oil?. I keep hearing that claim, but so far I've yet to see, where we've gained anything in the way of oil rights, or some privileged pricing in crude. Something factual please, not just buzz words, without logic, or facts. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote ------------------------------------------ Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 09-11-2006, 03:10 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by gordyzx9r View Post The story I got with it said that it was a teenager that lost control at around 200MPH, he supposedly survived with minor bruises. Nope. It was a middle aged guy, that was racing a friend in his wife's SLR. The title is under lots of investigation, ie, Scotland Yard is involved. The guy with the paperwork on was a .com'er. There's been a gaggle of turns and twists with the story about ownership, and what really happened. Not to mentin Homeland Security was there at the scene and allegedly *stood up* for the driver. Autoweek, has had about a dozen articles on it. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 09-14-2006, 06:53 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM View Post Okay who watched the show last night! Is it just me or was the one guy from Boston the most whiney irritating thing ever While he did come across as a whiner, IMO, he just saw the writting on the wall. He was going to lose his car.... The StL crowd, knew exactly how to play the game to win, and they did in fact win. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 09-14-2006, 06:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Louie L View Post I still dont get it. Whats the point of this show? Think of it as Oprah for Hotrodders. It's a bunch of egos, willing to bet on what they have. I just hope no one gets hurt..... Seems like some of the cars are just pasted together, to get on the show. Not to mention they often are somewhat just disposable cars.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 09-13-2006, 06:19 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr View Post I can't believe anyone would install rear disks without a trans brake. Dat's silly. Obviously, you've never driven or riden in my car. Once you get to having an effective Launch Mode, and Traction Control, opinions can change tremendously. I can sit at the line, with the trottle to the metal, and *only* be at 6 PSI, and the instant I release the brakes, and the car moves, I see 10. Give it another .2 sec and it's at max boost for any given RPM, and this is with a drive to the grocery type tune. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 09-09-2006, 07:44 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 3.5 Bar MAP from Hartline's Well, I finally got the code changed for the 3.5 Bar MAP sensor I bought from Hartline's. All seems more then *just* good. For some reason the scanner now more closely matches the boost guage. Just a couple PSI different, but it was interesting to see it being closer. Just another good product, from another good vendor..... Thanks, Cal. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------ Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 04-17-2006, 05:13 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Blown Headgaskets and AL heads I can't verify the source, but am giving credit as it was forwarded to me. Found this in A. Graham Bell's "Four-stroke performance Tuning" ------------------------------------- Many head gasket failures, however, are not due to inappropriate head gaskets being fitted, incorrect tensioning, or a block deck that is not perfectly flat. The problem, if it is an aluminium alloy head, could be that the head has been annealed when it was previously overheated and blew a head gasket. What happens is that the hot gases destroy the heat treatment and the head goes soft. Consequently it will no longer hold a head gasket and it has probably lost its crush on the valve seats as well. In this state the head also changes shape; it will be shorter and narrower. Hence a head that does not easily drop down on the block dowels or is jamming on the head studs is probably annealed. If you use head bolts rather than studs and you find trouble getting the bolts started into the block, it means the same thing; the head has gone soft. This can be checked with a Brinell or Rockwell hardness tester. On the Brinell scale a good head will read in the 95-plus range, and anything under 75 is too soft. When testing on the Rockwell B scale this translates to a hardness in the 48 to 60 range being ideal, while anything under 38 is soft. Obviously the place to test is in an area where the gasket has blown. Do not be content with a hardness test in just a couple of places. A casting flaw could throw the reading way off, so over an area of about a square inch test in at least 10-12 spots. If the head is soft and you have a lot of money invested in it, it may be worthwhile to have it heat-treated afresh. This is not cheap and it may not be possible in heads where the cam runs directly on the aluminium. Ask around to find what specialists can do, or if it is a head from an after-market supplier, get them to give you a price. Basically the seats and guides are knocked out and it is then heated in an oven at 520°C for around 5 hours (some manufacturers specify up to 20 hours). Then it is quenched in 80°C water and tempered (reheated) at 200°C for another 4 hours (up to 20 hours), then allowed to cool slowly in the air. Following this the head will be machined for oversize guides and seats and the deck will have to be resurfaced. This all costs a lot, but if the head is a good one with lots of fancy port and chamber work, you will not want to throw it away. Note also that any time a head is welded close to a head gasket fire ring line or valve seat it will also require a fresh heat treatment. Reply With Quote ------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 09-15-2006, 08:28 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Yehaaaa Well, got to set the GN engine into the Stang engine compartment today!... Got the wheels and tires on, so it sorta looks like a real car.. Still a long way to go, but considering we're only 3 months into it, I be really happy..... Hopefully, I'll get a few pics tomorrow. Chivas Time. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 09-16-2006, 11:42 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Bryan C. View Post Where are the pics? Wound up having a *bad hair day*. We'll try this again tomorrow...... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 09-16-2006, 05:09 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Here ya go. There are more pics in the library on the thread called Engine Swap... I gotta throw a set of headers on it, to finalize the exact location.... Darn Strut Tower......... I won't even mention what the preliminary weight estimate is going to be. This thing is gonna be about as light as can be done, on a backyard budget.... BTW, the engine's name is Big Barney (I won't mention what lil Barney is going to be, other then having more Head Bolts). It's a 4.2L version of a 4.1L Yes, those are CNP coils on those valve covers. While not finalized on what I might do ignition wise, I'm thinking about the GM Quick Start with CNP coils. I have a set of later coils that I'll be using if I do the CNP setup. Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 09-16-2006, 07:06 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Bryan C. View Post Thanks Bruce. Lookin good. Keep us posted, as i know you will. I found an old Hot Rod Article, that featured the Mustangs used in the U-2 recovery program, and it has a sketch of a 88 Mustang side view, with what looks to be a 10" square overlay on it. Gonna copy that, and work out some painting sketches. So far I'm going to stay with the Primer, do a 69/70 Boss 302 Orange and Black, or a Lemon Ice and bold stripe package. Like I said before, I just have a soft spot for the Orange/Black package. Seems like Foose and Shinoda, just have other things to do then layout a graphics package for me, LOL.... FWIW, was doing some reading about Jim Hall and his Chapparal cars, and Larry was remotely tied into some of the early Chaparral design stuff. Oh, and there were FE powered McClaren 6's. Talk about a small world..... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burn Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 09-16-2006, 07:13 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TSM Girl View Post Great looking pictures, I love the color of the block!Good choice! My engine guy has an **ODD** sense of humor. And he's not even a Chivas Guy. I had it in my GN for a while, and at a couple Cruise In's it definetly caught people's eyes. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 09-17-2006, 08:32 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SATURN5 View Post WOOT! I see you put a 85/86 nose on it. Did you swap the rear bumper cover too? I'm sure you've noticed the beltlines are different.. I dug up the empty 200R4 case and put a pan on it. Setting next to the T5 from my SVO the trans mount is ~ 3" further back, and the overall length is about ~3" shorter than the T5. Gonna have to drill the trans mounts from the floor and reposition the crossmember rearward. I guess with as popular of view as the rear bumper will be, I should think about replacing it... Kewl. Email'd you about picking the case up. Still gonna paste things together before doing any mount fab'ing. ie headers, turbo, engine accessories, etc., etc.. Then look to see where things need to go. I've gotten ahead of myself before doing swaps, and have found there's no such thing as being too complete before fab'ing mounts. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 09-17-2006, 12:13 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Kenny H View Post In Cliff's opinion, the bank should atleast buy the property back from him for what he owes. Cliff is the typical type of wanna-be investor thats going to get burned by this market. Be smart out there guys, you can sure get destroyed.... Leno could make an opening routine out of his *opinion*. Yep. I've seen what investing other then disposable can do, and it ain't pretty. IMO, if you can't risk losing all you invest, you're doomed from the getgo. If you can afford to wait thur any market swings then you might win in the long run. *Long Run* meaning for decades, not just some .com boom. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 09-04-2006, 07:41 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim View Post Having a few local friends w/TR's and the last one with a similar build to mine, being pretty darned QUIET, I was wondering if anyone has swapped out the PitBull mufflers to Aerochambers or Magnaflows and if there was any reduction in exhaust sound levels. I have a single shot, and put a Magnaflow where the Pitbull should have been, and the Pitbull where the cat should be. Works for me.... Bob Bailey has the nicest full stealth setup that I know of. You might ping him, or Mike L about what exact mufflers he has on his GN. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ---------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 09-19-2006, 05:04 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by $1987 GN$ View Post What is a crankcase evacuation pump worth power wise? What about pistons with no oil ring? What about the oil pan anyone using a bigger one? What level vacuum is best? Anyone having issues with the wrist pins? Depends on the level of engineering, and R+D done. They help with compression ring sealing. Depending on level of R+D, there may be some HP gain from lowering the Oil Pressure, due to it being less aerated. Oil Rings are for oil control. Vac will not replace the need for them, from what I've heard. Getting the oil further away from the spinning crank, lessens the aeration of the oil. As much as possible. No lately, after losing a Pulling motor to galling a few, *I've* gotten to where a *0* effort fit, and just enough looseness for the slightest *rattle* (dry assembly) is being right for *me*. __________________ ------------------------------- #3 Report Post Old 09-19-2006, 05:11 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JEFF STRUBE View Post This is not a Stage Engine just A 80-84 Block 4.1. Is there anyone out there that is off the shelf Piston's the stock Bore is 3.965 i am looking for some 3.975 or 3.985 Piston Speed Pro's TRW Something Fordged. Here's my build up: http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/bp41/bp41.htm Turned out the BRC Pistons were junk, and it's been reassembled with SBC TRW Forged Pistons. It's sitting in my Stang's engine bay, waiting for the engine swap to be completed. Won't know much until it runs, about using the SBC pistons. More Quench area, but we'll just have to see where that leads.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 09-12-2006, 01:33 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR View Post What kind of signal does our cam sensor put out? Basically is it the same type signal that the later "flying magnet" type cam sensors output? Thanks, It's a Hall Effect. Full on or off, no A/C or ramping involved. Thou, the later 3.8s with the magnetic cam sensor in the timing cover are a A/C generator type signal. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 09-12-2006, 05:43 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR View Post True, ok, well thats a relieve since I actually have the reverse, I have a 4.1L V6 with a later L67 supercharged harness and computer, I'm not so sure if the ignition module is do leinent but its basically a Type II. I've been using the '97 Quuick start ignition module, and 3x18 timing shutters with a 148 for years. If you're using the later PCM, then the timing for the cam sensor is critical. Since it uses a individual cylinder timing strategy. And you want to use the 3x18 because of the cylinder misfire code. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 09-12-2006, 07:31 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR View Post not the crank sensor Bruce, the CAM sensor, I'll be using the rings and sensor off of an L36 NA motor which are the same for the L67. They are also the same as the ones you use on your quick start but the larger diameter rather than the stock size. Excuse me, but you changed to talking about the igntion module with this reply, to which I was talking about. ** True, ok, well thats a relieve since I actually have the reverse, I have a 4.1L V6 with a later L67 supercharged harness and computer, I'm not so sure if the ignition module is do leinent but its basically a Type II. ** __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #13 Report Post Old 09-19-2006, 04:47 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by CTX-SLPR View Post both signals feed into the ignition module do they not? My statement about the module stands as the Series II stuff is basically a Type II with a different harness plug. I need to know if I can use the early distributor stub cam sensor inplace of the later cam sensor associated with the FWD motors built into the front cover. What are you calling a Series II?. Yes, the 148 was used in both type of systems (TR cam sensor, and magnet in front cover). __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ---------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 09-22-2006, 04:14 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI View Post Hartline Performance is now selling a driveshaft sensor for the XFI. This unit is a bolt in for the stock GM 10 bolt and can be modified for other rears. Pricing is $199 Pics or more details about how it mounts, please. Yes, TC (passive) is a nice item, as well as datalogging the launch. With the right software, you could do torque tuning........ Now ask me about why I used the late S-10 rotor/ tone rings for my front brake conversion.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ----------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 09-23-2006, 05:44 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr View Post Looks like some fun stuff. Yep I'd like to try on, a M107...... It's a 50 Cal *Sniper Rifle*. 50s are just so much of a rush..... BTW, we used to have Quad 50s on the perimeters from time to time, they were pretty neat to watch in action. Not too many folks wanted to try and take them on.... ---------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 09-17-2006, 12:08 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by fc227 View Post What size is the fuel line from the filter to the front of the car? Does it have special ends?. So I need to replace the fuel line form the filter to the front of the car. Is it the 3/8? steel line double flared at both ends? The fitting on the fuel filter end is normal 3/8 double flare. The front end stuff is all oddball, IMO. I'd suggest using preflared Bundy 3/8" line, and then converting to AN at the engine end, and a short lenght by the fuel filter. Be prepared for a wrestling match where the front end loops thru the frame. Trying to get a wrench on things down there is a PITA. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 09-17-2006, 07:26 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by fc227 View Post Thank you, I?m not as young and patient as when I was younger. Now for a stupid question "Bundy? what exactly is that? Is that the same as the steel line you can get at the auto parts store? Yep, and yes. Bundy is a brand name, but has come to mean pre flared tubing. -------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 09-25-2006, 01:34 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by AustinTR View Post I have a stock Turbo-T except ATR downpipe, ATR 3" exhaust, Cold Air Intake, Translator with Lt1 MAF and the propane. I want to get a Thrasher chip for the car. Any issues with the Translator and a Thrasher chip ?? Thrasher chip = better drivability and possible better mileage The Thrasers are a good chip, but dated. There's been lots of improvements over the years since they were last worked on. The Extender, and various other Bailey (Fullthrottle) line of chips have alot more work in them, and refinements. Not to mention that you can still write Bob/ Mike, and get a chip custom reprogrammed for a specific, odd, problem. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ---------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 09-14-2006, 06:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM View Post This has got to be about one of the worst cussing's I have ever heard Some people use profanity, as sort of puncuation. They don't mean much by it, and it's just *talk*. Varies by location, and industry. Some trade guys aren't from NY, and talk about that way. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------------------ Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 09-21-2006, 08:36 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Dusty Bradford View Post It's a custom length rack and the kit includes spacers for bump steer adjustment. You need to get the rack installed at the right height so the arms are at the same angle as the lower control arms. I'll know more about it when I get the motor back in it. There's *2* elements to bump steer corrections (but many issues in how it's designed into the car). First is the vertical component, which is what the spacers are about. The second part is the actual length of the tie rod. I'm looking forward to hearing how *well* the bump steer turns out. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ---------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 09-29-2006, 09:20 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by gnxtc2 View Post MALE & FEMALE procedures have been developed. Please follow the appropriate steps for your gender." My ex was exactly like that..... I mean exactly, whatever could be done with 10-15 extra steps, was always the way she did things. McD's was always, shall we say *interesting*. Funny then, and funny now... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 09-29-2006, 10:39 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TSM Girl View Post That is pretty scary that your ex was like that. Actually it is pretty scary if women are like that! lol..........thank god, I am not......b.t.w. I think I need to check my makeup in my mirror! In many ways she was a brillant person, but when it came to doing some things, it like there was a genetic flaw...... 2 days to make a Grocery List, and then still walked row by row through the whole store, and not once in a while, every time. Wouldn't have asked for her to be any different thou, and she could laugh at how she acted at times. It was truely a Venus, vs Mars thing, in some reguards, but harmony in many more. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. --------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 09-29-2006, 03:39 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Ecotec at Bonneville The latest Popular Hot Rodding has a pic of a ecotec powered late model coupe, that looks pretty neat. Also a 69 Cuda that has to be seen to be appreciated.. Ya, I like the *Bonneville Look*. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 09-29-2006, 04:00 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper View Post This post is unless with out pics... post them or delete it! A quick google with the supplied *info* turned up this. And there were a lot of links left to look at. http://www.racerchicks.com/motor/bonneville.html Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 09-29-2006, 04:15 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper View Post Thanks that is better! contiue to drink:yikes: The drinking comments were intended to lead some one to making an assumption. With the *cocktail* of medications I'm on, drinking is unlikely, if not impossible. No kidneys, or liver could take the abuse, of these meds, and alky. They in part lead to a very last metabolism of any sugars/ alky that I injest, ie I'd be instant drunk. Not to mention being on 2 injected meds for diabetes. Chivas, just used to be my favorite (several decades, ago)... -------------------------------- Old 09-29-2006, 04:53 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Lokar cables Maybe I should have asked if anyone had tried them first, but, today I ordered a TV Cable for the tranny, throttle cable, and tranny dipstick *tube* from them. The tranny dipstick tube, has the option of *firewall* mounting, which should do the trick on the Stang. The engine is as far back as possible, and the stock tubing would have forced moving the engine an 1.5 further forward.... The dipstick, and TV cable were about $75, and the throttle cable about $45. Just imagine the stock cables, but with an AN type braided outter casing. (ie no pics available at this time) __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. --------------------------------- #1 Report Post Old 09-29-2006, 05:04 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Fine Dinning Experience The other day, a friend of mine, his two daughters, Son in Law, and grandson meet at Applebees for lunch. My friend and I arrived early, and he asked about being able to get dinnner rolls for his grandson. The grandchild is Autistic, and is very particular about what he'll eat. Bob Evans Dinner Rolls and chicken strips being his favorites. The waitress said, they didn't have dinner rolls, only Garlic Bread, but she'd see what she could do. A few minutes later, the others arrived, and a little while later we ordered.. Right after ordering, *Sabrina*, brought a couple Bob Evans Dinner Rolls to the table. She had one of the other employees run over to a nearby Bob Evans and got some Dinner Rolls..... It was just beyond words to see someone go that far out of their way to cater to us. During the meal the manager John O'Neal stopped by to check on our meals, and if we were happy with the service. Needless to say they got an A-1... Oh, and John's motto is don't ask if you can cater to one of our customers, just tell me what you **DID**. In this day of Fast Food, it was incredibly refreshing to be catered to. Not to mention the food was marvelous. It was the Troy, OH Applebees, so if your driving by, don't hesitate to drop in for a grand lunch. Quick reply to this message #3 Report Post Old 09-29-2006, 07:32 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TSM Girl View Post That is a great story..Give that waitress a nice tip....especially when they go out of there way like that. She was. I also wrote Applebees, and complimented her, and the manager by name. __________________ Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 09-30-2006, 11:17 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Reaper View Post Damn, you dont see that much any more, she would have gotten a 50% tip if i was at the table. I really enjoy people or under-promise and over deliver. Bruce, was she young single and good looking, if so I will PM you my phone number and you can give it to her for me! In round numbers that's what she got. Happily, Married. I wonder if hubby appreciates what a great gal he's got, I sure hope so. She deserves some, Goes Around. -------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 09-28-2006, 01:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 MAF Cleaning Just saw a magazine ad for an aerosol MAF Cleaner, made by CRC. I don't know anything more then that, but it CRC has been making Automotive Aerosol products for a long time. __________________ -------------------------------------- Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #44 Report Post Old 10-01-2006, 08:12 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 I believe Mark Jackson, and a couple other guys have run in the 9s with ME's. I'd expect to see a few more good numbers from the MAFTPRO guys this year...... A WB, and EGT are cost effective, IMO, once you get into the 11's, and faster then that, they're mandatory.... BUT, nothing replaces plug reading. Mike from Fullthrottle seems to be really good at that. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. --------------------------------------- #3 Report Post Old 09-21-2006, 08:25 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JOHNDEEREGN View Post I started as a freshman with a 69 Chevy 1/2 ton tricked out, then a 79 cutlass, then a 84 GT350 mustang 4 cyl turbo (DOG) and then as a senior bought a new black 87 GT 5.0. The summer after my senior year I got waxed at the lights by a 87 GN and have been hooked every since For graduation I got a Benelli 50cc sport bike. And that was so that I could get a job, and start paying a serious amount of rent. Ocassionally during my senior year, I got to borrow the family car, but only when I'd earned enough money for gas. Once I got *working* I got a Hodaka 90. Then some big Pick Ups, that the Army provided.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------- Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 25 votes, 1.00 average. Display Modes #1 Report Post Old 06-07-2005, 04:48 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 *G* Machine Receipe First, IMO, a G Machine is a fully street worthy, comfortable car to drive, that does everything well, stopping, handling, and accleration. There's always opinions about how far one can go, in each area, not to mention what *comfortable* means. There are several *ideas* about what can be done to a car to make it handle. One is for use on glass smooth roads, where you go with really high spring rates, stiff shocks, and thick sway bars. For the less then glass smooth roads, we can get into, basically two types of set ups. One is firm springs, shocks, and firm sway bars, and then softer springs with much firmer sway bars, again firm on the shocks. I've tried all of the above, and currently I've found the following to be about the ideal set-up, for other then glass smooth roads, for me. In front, I'm running the PolePosistion Upper-A-Arms, Bilstein shocks, 1LE (3rd Gen F-Body) springs (with one loop cut off), stock sway bar (with poly end link bushings), Stock lower A-Arm bushings. With the PP Uppers, I'm now running -.75 camber, 4d Caster, 1/16" toe in. In the rear, QA-1 coil-over conversion, Global West (Heim/Poly) lower links, stock uppers, HR PartsnStuff rear sway bar. For brakes, 2002 Camaro Discs, 91 Toronado Master Cylinder, blocked off proprtioning valve, PST stainless hard lines, AN soft lines. Sheetmetal/Frame wise, I had the car mini-tubbed. While so far I really haven't needed it, it was only nature to do with doing the coil-over conversion. With the regular assortment of add-on braces. Engine wise, I run a 206/206 hydralic roller, smoothed out combustion chambers, Poston headers, THDP, ATR Single Shot, Cotton Double Pumper, Cotton F/M, 60 PPH injectors, TA-62, late model *Quick Start* ignition system, Spina Cam Sensor, FullThrottle Fuel Pump Hot Wire, Razor's Alky kit. The car is stable, at any road speed, 80-0 MPH stopping in the 170' range, 0-60 in the low 4s with just daily driver tires (on the street), ~25 MPG. Starts instantly, at 0dF, driving 500 miles doesn't beat ya to death with road vibration. HTH Last edited by Bruce : 07-31-2005 at 05:45 AM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 06-14-2005, 04:38 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Top Speed Sounds like a good recipe!! Looking thur your *86 Pro Touring*, don't look at all bad, either. Got any pics, were one doesn't have to join a site, to see it?. Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 06-30-2005, 04:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Cragar steel, 17x9s 275/40s in front, 285/40s out back. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 07-16-2005, 11:47 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Generally: Caster controls the way a car wants to track in a straight line, and/or how fast it moves from the straight ahead by outside forces. On a flat road, hands off, the car should remain going in a straight line, even with minor imperfections. Toe-in is about how fast the car starts to move from on center, towards negoiating a turn. As an experiment try running a car with just a SMALL amount of toe-out if you want to see what a *hand full* of car is like. Almost any deviation from straight means lots of steering correction with toe-out. So generally for a street car, you want just enough toe-in to keep the car from toe-ing-out under any steering condition. It's one way of keeping *bump-steer* (when in not a straight ahead condition) in check. Also, when braking it keeps the tires toed-in, when you have enough play in the steering components so that the tires start to toe out the front end gets real twitchy, ie wants to drift one way or the other from being in toe-out instead of being toed-in. The other thing about caster, is that as you turn the steering wheel, the more caster you have, will generate a greater increase in camber as you turn the steering wheel. And all of this gets played off against tire wear. Last edited by Bruce : 07-31-2005 at 05:50 AM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 07-16-2005, 11:48 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 [quote=TurboJim]My guess is good straight feel, and the 4degrees of caster dont hurt. [quote] It's necessary as you run higher and higher speeds, some of the MB run about 7d, with the same basic double a-arm system. Last edited by Bruce : 07-31-2005 at 05:51 AM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #10 Report Post Old 07-16-2005, 05:23 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Racer X I agree about the caster. A ton of caster gives you a heavier steering wheel and greater stability at high speeds. I run with a 1/16" toe out on my race cars for better control through the corners. I ran one time with a 1/16" in and that's when I had my hands full. :D On my GN I have it set pretty much likes yours Bruce, except for the toe. Thanks! What kind of race cars?, and what sort of track?. I could see it on short courses, but would wonder about the long ones. I've been thinking about trying more caster, but playing around with alignments when you have to pay for them gets expensive. After spending some time with the align spec book, I'm thinking about trying even more caster, ie over 5d. Then, maybe a touch less camber to keep a flatter foot print during heavy braking. Dunno, things are pretty good as they are. Kewl Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 07-17-2005, 06:47 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Racer X The tracks are road courses like Sears Point (Infineon), Laguna Seca, and the like as well as the Silverstate Classic. I started in my GN and then moved onto a Vette when the GN became far too expensive. I am now in a 2002 Monte Carlo Nextel Cup car with a straight up body. I had the Vette set with the toe in and it was just too twitchy at corner entry. The rear wanted to step out (or at least it felt that way) :D When I go to the Silverstate I run 0* camber, 0* toe, and about 7* caster, but that is more like a 90 mile long drag race. Don't get me wrong, I was just curious. Just about everyone likes their cars set up differently. I like to hear what other people have to say about things when they do them different than I do. Thanks for the info.. That's what sets the library apart from other Boards/ Forums, while there is some theory (quasi opinion, at times), it's designed to be a resource of facts, and data, that folks have tired, and speak from experience, rather then some that are based completely on speculation, and guessing. IMO, the best thing you can do to most any vette, is put a 9" in it, and a *street* 4 link. The 2 U-Joint rear axles, IMO, always bound the suspension up, or added just added something wierd to the mix, when you try to make one handle well.... Last edited by Bruce : 07-31-2005 at 05:52 AM. Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 07-19-2005, 06:55 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Racer X How do you like Paul Ferry's bar? What changes (if any) did it make to the car in terms of handling? I have read from people that it helps the car launch, but nobody has really tried for the corners. I am guessing that it will free up the rear and get the car more neutral. You're right, in your guessing... The car feels much better, since the bar isn't working to bind up the bushings, like all of the other ones, that bolt to the lower links. You (I), can feel the difference in going across/ in, driveways, when the suspension, has to *roll* a little bit. While pricey, it's worth it to me. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #16 Report Post Old 07-19-2005, 09:40 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Racer X I would love to get that bar on a skid pad. It looks great. The only other product that would be good for these cars for handling that I haven't seen yet: Watts Link. I have a picture of my GN in a hard corner and you can see the rear axle shifting about 2". I have an old ATR Torque Arm kit, that one of these days, I'm going to install, but, I'm going to remove the upper links, and then install a Panhard bar. Trouble with *Watts* (on a G-Body) is making solid enough mounts, IMO. Without enclosing the frame channels, I don't see where it would be much better then just a Panhard (just guessin on that, since I've not seen either in a TR). I wonder, if using a lower link with a Heim setup on the fronts of the lower links, and then just a diagonal from opposite corners on the lowers, would work. Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 02-25-2006, 12:37 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Pics of the final set-up QA1s front and rear. 17x9.5 ZR1 rims, 2" Skulte Design spacers. 235/40x17 KDW II Front tires 285/40x17 KDWS rears While I do need to soften the front end up, spring wise, the overall appearance of the car, is done. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 05-03-2006, 01:55 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Bruce While I do need to soften the front end up, spring wise, the overall appearance of the car, is done. The spring rate was not the problem!. I turns out the car settled more, and the bump stops were bottoming out...... Discovered that, while the car was on a hoist getting an oil change, and some addition *other* work. Took off the bump stops, and with a Sawzall Alll trimmed them down. So now there's a good 3/8" frame to stop clearance, and the ride is MUCH better. Probably going to buy a spare set of stops, and play with seeing how much we can trim them. While still quite firm, the ride is nice. BTW, the center of front axle to lower edge of fender is now 12 3/4". ------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 09-24-2005, 02:34 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo nasty I was wondering on the b body spindle 12" brake conversion if the front end drops any or if the wheels stick out any further than stock? You might take a gander at the Library, and look thur the various threads about brakes. Putting the late Camaro brakes on, lets you use the stock spindles. Unless, you really firm up the spring rates with the B Spindles, you'll be left with some bump steer. Quick reply to this message #5 Report Post Old 09-26-2005, 07:04 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo nasty Thanx guys.... Would the LS1 brakes require bigger wheels to clear? I don't know, for sure. But, the 1LE and LS1 rotors are both 12". It wasn't *that* close with 16s, but some of the 15 have weird cross sections. Reply With Quote --------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #4 Report Post Old 10-01-2006, 11:07 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by EightSecV6 View Post The top one is DOT and the bottom one is not. Some fast,heavy cars racing REAL 10.5's and not W's usually elect to run the radial slick (bottom pic) because the sidewall is stiffer and you can hit it harder without "shaking" it on the launch and they are much more stable on the big end. Outlaw 10.5" cars run a 33"w tire which is HUGE compared to the non W. ????? The slicks I've been on have always hunted at the top end, heck some as early as mid track. The street MT's I have (but haven't run yet), have a regular side wall construction. BTW, what do you mean by W's?. Quick reply to this message #6 Report Post Old 10-01-2006, 11:21 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by EightSecV6 View Post The tires Shane questioned about are RADIAL slicks and not bias ply. The M/T ET street tires are bias too, they have a "wrinkle" wall. The ET Street radials (pictured above) have a STIFF sidewal W tires mean "wide". Sidewall designates a number such as 33x10.50w BUT it is much wider than that. Odd, maybe they were bias.... Isn't the tire pictured a M/T ET Street?. Ohhhhhhhhh, OK. Or should I say *Dugh*?. LOL ------------------------------------- Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 06-04-2006, 06:54 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Would that be an indication of the turbo "crossover" point? At full kill mode, what is the highest VE you experience? Up to 100%? Over that? 110%? Nope. If one's to believe Alan Lockheed, a good turbo set-up can reach 120% VE, and the exceptional upwards of 150%. While one can use the ideal gas law as a model for the math, even small errors can stack up. For tuning they really don't matter much, but when you want to get into the science of it all, it does matter. If anyone wanted to accurately monitor the true airflow, one would use a MAF, and then compare that to the VE table to see if they were in the neighborhood, math wise. The current guestimations, are rather lacking, since they assume injectors are always linear, and just reverse the PWs backward to estimate air used, and thus VE. Some of the current MAFs are light years ahead of what was in use just a few years ago, it'd be interesting to datalog one, and really see what some of the TR VE's really are. All the above is, IMO. *All* it takes is an accurate gm/sec reading, and knowing the engine displacement to get the real numbers. I tried at one time to get some dyno numbers from anyone to see where they were, to no avail. Maybe someone this time around has some lab type air flow numbers from a dyno... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #7 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 08:05 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI I doubt you will see VE numbers over 100 with a turbo buick. Then it's not even a true VE table. So much for their claim about how new and improved the system is. If it was truely using the Ideal Gas Law, then it would reflect the true VE, and one wouldn't have to fudge numbers (ie use less then 100). Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #8 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 08:06 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr 20PSI of exhaust back pressure with 22PSI of manifold pressure makes sense to me that more CF of air could fit into a given engine than the actual displacement. That'd be around 110% VE. I believe this would be impossible without a turbo. I think reaching the crossover point is essential to going over 100% VE . Nope, the latest NASCAR engines are all over 106% VE. Rumor has it that some are hitting 108%. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #9 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 08:11 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim GM does this on newer 3800's. Use MAF/MAP to compare each other. I am not positive if they run the car speed density and verify w/MAF or run MAF and verify w/MAP, but I do know they use both to check each other. If one winds up out of whack, it codes and goes by the other Bruce, maybe you can find someone with the code and see which. ANd if SD w/MAF you can correlate VE to AF numbers since you can hack the code apart pretty easily now. I realize it wouldnt be the same as a TR, but it might give you an idea where things should fall displacement wise. They run on MAF, and use MAP for the diagnostics. In some default modes, they then switch over to MAP mode. The code stuff isn't, *pretty easy*. Not to mention from what I've heard, the OBDII is alot more complex.. It's still be nice if someone posted what they saw on a dyno (airflow wise). Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #11 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 01:46 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr It seems the fast video does not agree there? I really don't care, just want my car tuned right. If you study the matter, the it would make good sense, that by using a fully optimized engine package, that for a given *small* range, that an engine should be able to use the inertia of the incoming air, to *stuff* a little more air into an engine, then what the displacement is. *right* varies by what someone considers good enough. The closer the tune is, the better the car will run. While some only car for WOT, an engine operates in conditions other then that, so for best life, the tune needs to be close in all respects, cold run, hot restart, AE, etc., etc.. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #12 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 01:54 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr So If I see my current tune with VE table going no higher than 90, I should not be worried? Seems a little far off from the FAST guys opinion. If you see erroneous entries, then all the math involved is off. For any of the fuel/ timing calculations to be *right*, it means all the entries need to be right. Once you start fudging numbers to get the car to run, then the tune is in fact off. The problem with some of *this* stuff is that, some of the people that write code, are trying to *please all the people all the time*, and at times ignore the engine.... After all, an aftermarket ecm has to be marketable, and that means catering to alot of people that will settle for alot less then what correct is. You're one of the few that even seems to care, as to what's really going on. Hopefully, there will be more like you, and the aftermarket folks wake up to the real needs of their customers (well IMO). Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #14 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 03:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI Apparantly, I am one of those guys that falls into your last category. I don't know too much about the Ideal Gas Law. Because of this, I don't understand why a turbocharged motor would be 20-40% more efficient than a Nascar engine. I have tuned quite a few TR's and usually see VE numbers in the 70-90 range at WOT. A NASCAR engine *only* has 14.7 PSI to fill the cylinders, a Turbo motor has 2x that amount of pressure filling the cylinders. While you might see VE table entries of 70-90%, that doesn't mean you're using the *correct* values. You can use values that work, but that doesn't mean they're correct. Just as an example, if you tell the ecm the engine's displacement is 1/2 of actual, and use an injector value of 1/2, the ecm will come up with an approximate value, that's close enough to work. But, one item that will probably be off, is the injector's opening time, and that will cause a large error at idle, then at WOT. Heck according to Turbo2nr, the F.A.S.T, video even talks about 110%. BTW, Alan Lockheed was pretty much one of the inventors of software can predict an engines output based on it's critical dimensions. Some of his work also involved F1, and how competing teams could estimate a competitors HP, from audio analyse. He also is still teaching Tech Seminars, as a *hired gun*. BTWII, F.A.S.T. has used a claim about using the Ideal Gas Law as a selling point. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #18 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 04:17 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI I told you I didn't understand the VE calculations. I ASSumed the Boost was calculated in when determining the VE. Are you saying (as a rule of thumb), as the boost increases the VE should increase? OK, I did a quick search and came up with this. From: http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/mfuel.htm#law The **************** area is what you want to concentrate on. MegaManual Index -- The Ideal Gas Law -- Injectors -- REQ_FUEL MegaSquirt Fuel Equation -- Ignition InputBatch, Bank, Sequential Injection and MegaSquirt How MegaSquirt Works Understanding how MegaSquirt controls the fuel injectors will help you to assemble, test, and tune your MegaSquirt for best performance. MegaSquirt works on a number of levels to inject the correct amount of fuel into your engine. Most tangible is the hardware. This consists of: * CPU (U1, the 68HC908) and clock section (Y1, the 32768 Hz crystal), that perform computations, * Serial communications section (most notably U6, the MAX232 chip) to enable tuning software to read and write parameters to MegaSquirt, * Power section (especially U5, the LM2937 voltage regulator) to provide a constant 5 volts for many of the other components, * Various input conditioning circuits (consisting mainly of capacitors, resistors, and diodes, but also including: U3, the MPX4250 MAP sensor, and U4, the opto-isolator for the ignition signal, and * A number of outputs to drive the injectors, relays, and LEDs. Significant components include U7, the 34151 FET injector driver, Q2 and Q7, the two IFRIZ34N FETs (field effect transistors) for the injector banks, Q1, the TIP32C flyback transistor, and a number of other transistor, capacitors, and resistors. * There are also a number of other associated parts, such as connectors, the case, cables, etc. The MC68HC908 CPU is controlled by ?embedded software?. This is ?burned? into the non-volatile memory (remembers data even when the power is turned off) of the CPU. It is written in assembly language. The embedded code and its variants are freely available. Another part of the CPU memory is burned with the ?bootloader?, which tells the CPU how to interpret and store new versions of the embedded code sent through the serial communications port. The parameters that adjust the embedded code to your specific vehicle are configured using a laptop and tuning software, such as MegaTune. These are Windows9x/Me/XP applications. They can read information coming from the MegaSquirt, as well as send parameters to MegaSquirt for use and storage. The amount of fuel injected by MegaSquirt depends on several factors: ************************************************** *** * The Ideal Gas Law that relates the amount of air to its pressure, volume and temperature, (this is a fundamental part of the embedded code). * Measured values: manifold pressure, engine and intake air temperature, rpm, etc. (these are taken from the sensor measurements). * Tuning parameters: REQ_FUEL, volumetric efficiency, injector open time, etc. (these are input and adjusted using the tuning software). To understand these, we will start with the basics: the Ideal Gas Law, the REQ_FUEL value, and the fueling equation. The Ideal Gas Law You might remember from high school physics classes that an ideal gas (which air is reasonably close to) obeys the relationship: PV = nRT Where: P = pressure, V = volume, n = number of moles (which is related to the mass of the gas, i.e. 1 mol = 6.023x1023 molecules of the gas, and n = mass (in grams)/molar mass(MM)), R = the ideal gas constant, and T = the absolute temperature. What does this have to do with fuel injection? In order to know how much fuel to inject, we need to know how much air is going into the engine so the chemically correct mixture (called ?stoichiometric?) can be achieved. So for a fuel injected engine, we use sensors to determine the pressure in the intake manifold and the air temperature. However, the temperature in this equation is ?absolute temperature? measured in Kelvins which is equal to degrees Celsius + 273º. The volumetric efficiency (VE) is a percentage that tells us the pressure inside the cylinder versus the pressure in the manifold. We know the volume (V) from the displacement of the engine. Thus we can calculate the mass of air (M) in the cylinder (proportional to n) from n = PV/RT => M = n x MM = PV/RT x MM = (VE * MAP * CYL_DISP) / (R * (IAT-32) * 5/9 + 273)) x MMair Since: P = VE * MAP (i.e. the pressure in the cylinder in kPa), V = CYL_DISP = the displacement of one cylinder (in liters), R = 8.3143510 J/mol K, and T = (IAT-32)* 5/9 + 273 to convert IAT from ºFahrenheit to Kelvin. Note that we can combine the constants R and MMair into one, and we will ignore them from this point on since they can be hard-coded into the assembly language code and neglected after that. Since we now know the amount of air in a cylinder from the MAP and IAT values and the 'tuned' value for VE, we need to know the amount of fuel to inject. We specify this with a parameter called REQ_FUEL. ************************************************** ******* Not always will VE increase, as boost builds. Generally?, ya. It's kinda sorta like the HP curve, at a given amount of boost for a given RPM, after you reach the max flow of the engine, it can/ will drop off. VE is the amount of air an engine consumes as compared to the displacement of the engine. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #19 Report Post Old 06-05-2006, 04:19 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr So, not too many people run over 30PSI? The import crowd would laugh at that low number for racing. 40PSI++ is very common int the 1320'. Mention 50 PSI at a tractor pull, and folks will laugh. The single turbo classes run at 60, and the staged stuff well over 250 PSI of boost. Oh, and that's none intercooled, thou, they use alot of water...... Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #37 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 06:21 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI Scott, You are putting too much faith in the video. When they were handed out at BG, Lance stated "This video is not a substitute for a good tuner". It was designed to teach people the basics, NOT tell them what VE values to put in their table. I will tell you that IME I have never tuned a turbo motor with the volumetric efficiency anwhere near 150%. My experience shows the FAST system follows physics a LOT closer than the video. I still don't see how a turbo motor can get 50% more boost in the cylinder than it has in the manifold. Bruce? So the instructions are wrong?. Tuning is what it's all about. But, having some understanding of what's really going on is *power*. Sure folks can get lucky and or spend hours on end, getting things to work, but in the end, having them work as designed will often get better results. It's under pressure, and moving alot faster (ie inertia comes into play) then what it would in a N/A engine. A large plenum forms a *reserve* where once the intake valve opens, the volume of air inside the manifold can quickly start to force the piston down, unlike a N/A engine where it's just atmospheric pressure trying to fill the cylinder as the piston moves down. Not to mention that it will continue to push air past a closing intake valve, much better then if there was no pressure in the manifold. As mentioned earlier, the NASCAR guys are getting over 100%, by tuning the runners and plenum, to take advantage of the wave action in the manifold. What I did in my code was use the VE for when the engine is running in N/A mode, and then use a PW multiplier for when in boost. It's sort of how GM did the Syclone code, but with some improvements, and alot better resolution. By doing this, I avoided the traps and errors of trying to use a VE calculation when in boost (other then for the basis on what to work at the higher MAPs) . Map: 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 ; RPM: 0, 0, 0, 0, 20, 30, 33, 41, 44, 51, 52, 59, 60, 63, 64, 64, 64 ; 2200 Kpa 100 119 138 156 175 194 213 231 250 269 288 306 ; RPM 130, 132, 134, 140, 144, 146, 146, 146, 146, 146, 146, 146 ; 2400 Now to actually figure out what the PW is, you use the table entry, and divide it by 128. So at 100 K/Pa, it's the PW done in the VE calculation, and corrections, times 130, and then divided by 128. So if the PW was 10 msec., it would be 10x130, divided by 128, or 10.156 msec.. The table also shows that at 2,400 RPM, at over 194 K/Pa of boost, that the fuel requirement flat lines, and/or the turbo just won't generate more then that amount of boost at 2,400 RPM. FWIW, this is what that first line entry will look like when I further refine some corrections. ie 90% VE at about peak torque would be a very realistic number. While not in boost, the turbo is still spooling up, and helping to fill the cylinders. Map: 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 ; RPM: 0, 0, 0, 0, 30, 45, 48, 52, 66, 73, 74, 75, 75, 95, 96, 96, 96 ; 2200 Does that help to explain things?. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #38 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 06:24 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SGRIM Sorry to interrupt, but I am sure I am not the only one wondering this, I have read this thread from the begginning I just want to know what VE is:D VE, Volumetric Effiecency, is the amount of air, an engine is using compared to how much it could use. If a Buick engine is using 3.8L of air every two revolutions and displaces 3.8L, then it's at 100% VE. If it was to somehow flow 7.6L of air per 2 revolutions, that would be 200% VE. Being a 4 stroke engine it takes 2 revolutions to fully cycle all the cylinders. Last edited by Bruce : 06-07-2006 at 06:26 AM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #39 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 06:38 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JCotton As for the VE tables, I agree with you, depending on the fuel system and injector size for a particular combination, the VE tables I see, typically do not go above mid 80's. If they do, usually a fuel delivery problem is the culprit. Then you're ignoring how the system is designed to work. They're claim in their advertising is that it's a true VE Table, and uses the Ideal Gas Law. That's in part what makes it better then the old stuff where the fuel table was just a Base PW. It's the ability to accurately calculate what the engine is actually doing that allows for best optimising the timing and fueling of the motor. BTW, I'm not trying to argue with anyone, just explain how things are supposed to work. BTWII, it's beginning to look like there's some errors in the F.A.S.T. code, if what's been said here is the way things are done. For an entry of 80% VE at max HP (under any real amount of boost), is way off. There are numberous papers to support the 110-150%, not to mention one is the F.A.S.T. video, acccording to one participant here. Reply With Quote Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 9 votes, 1.44 average. Display Modes #41 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 06:46 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Looking at the fast video again, I see the high boost range is recommended to peak at 110%-150% VE (for a turbo application, at max torque output). 150% VE!! Wow, something is not right here. I hate getting info that conflicts. My brain is short circuted. So much for the FAST system following the laws of physics. I guess we are just making up random numbers to produce the results we want? Not really a true representation of whats going on inside the engine. So, most TR guys are seeing around 90% VE at the most? Any others out there over 100% ?? Also, include what system are you running. So F.A.S.T., and Alan Lockheed are both wrong?. If the claim F.A.S.T. is making about using the Ideal Gas Law, is true, and the code is in fact correct, then it is following the laws of physics. However it sounds like people are using numbers to make it work, rather then reflecting what's really going on. Or there is an error in what F.A.S.T. has said or is doing. I see over 90% VE when in N/A mode. With my own system, which is based on how GM does things. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #43 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 07:53 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JCotton Thats some good stuff Bruce. I respect your knowledge greatly, although I do have a difficult timing understanding some things. What it boils down to for me is "time".... not enough of it to absorb and grasp all the details. You are so right in knowledge being "power". Unfortunately I have broken down the VE table into something I can grasp easily, maybe you can help me to understand it better if I explain it to you in my laymans terminology. I look at the VE table as my "fuel map". The higher the numbers the more fuel I am adding, the lower the number the less fuel I use. I use other parameters to determine what to do in the VE table such as my "actual A\F" and my "% of correction". If I have positive correction I raise my VE number and obviously lower my number if I have a negative correction. Thats how it was explained to me many years ago when I first began using FAST on my car. Thats about as simple as I can put it.... Yes, it's a *Fueling Map*. However, there are several ways *to do the math*. An ecm just runs on code, and the corresponding math.. The better the *math*, or the modeling that the math allows for, the better are the answers that the ecm can generate. If you want to treat a VE table as a Base Pulse Width table, like the Gen VI was, that's all well and good. It will work like that. But, in the examples here, if you using say 80% as being the highest VE possible, then when the code runs, there will be a *rounding error*. While some math, gives even answers, ie 2x2=4, there are cases like 2.33x2.66 that will generate an answer like 6.1978, and that has to be rounded off to 6.20. As the math goes on, and on, there is more and more possible *rounding errors*, so any intial error will only get worse, as the calculations go on. Are they huge errors?, no. But, there are errors, and I hope we can agree on, the more accurate the modeling the ecm can do, the better data it can generate. It's just like engine building, the more attention you pay to the details the better the final result. So while it might not seem like a big deal, it does matter which numbers it is that you round off, and when. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #46 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 09:05 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI Bruce, I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier. You quoted megasquirt saying saying: The volumetric efficiency (VE) is a percentage that tells us the pressure inside the cylinder versus the pressure in the manifold Are you saying this is incorrect and VE has nothing to do with intake pressure? I don't see where that's in conflict to anything I've stated. If an engine is being completely filled and at 100% VE, then (speaking in theory here), then pressures would be equal. There are related items that would come into play, ie pumping loses, the wave actions within the manifold, the air column inertia (and it would vary as a matter of intake valve lift). I was only using the Megasquirt info., to explain the Ideal Gas Law. If you want to take it upon yourself and do more research on the matter, fine, but I'm not claiming to be an expert on all of this, I'm just trying to make some sense it for others. If you don't like may explainations or want better explainations of it, a quick search will turn up an address for Bruce Bowling, or Al Grippo (sp?), and they can run thur it for you. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #47 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 09:14 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by JCotton Thanks Bruce, I can understand that, like build a wall, if you ar off left or right of the center line 1" after the first 12"es, imagine how far you'll be off at the end of a 20' run....... ouch. Here's a question for you..... ex. we run a combo with 83lb injectors and a VE table in the 90's, we replace the injectors with a set of 160lbers and now have a VE table in the 50-60 range ......I look at that and say thats what happens when you supply more potential fuel from a larger hose, you don't have to turn the volumne up as much,in laymans terms...:D ? 90% VE is 90% VE. If you change injectors, the PW at the end of the math will be different, but the VE is the same (if changing injectors was the only change). [Nit picking following] Well, that's even slightly wrong since you'd have to watch the injector's *off* signal in relationship to the intake valve, and then also account for the difference in fuel droplet size... That also gets us into things like the operating characterists of the injectors being used. ie going from 30 PPH injectors to 60's doesn't mean just chopping the PW is half, and things will be fine. The code also needs to allow for things like the mechanical diffferences in the injectors, and how they act at different voltages. Yes, that is somewhat splitting hairs, but, I'm bringing this up as a matter of why some things just don't at a glance seem *right*. While you *can* use the VE to account for say the mechanics of the injectors, you can't for say battery voltage. Yes, there is a point where you have to call it close enough, and just move on, but, like you noted in your wall building, you need to get it close or there will be problems. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #52 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 04:40 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI changes to the VE table when swapping injectors, but ASSumed it was because of the diferent flow rates between injectors at diferent duty cycles. Bruce: The reason I was asking was because (based upon that statement) it seemed to me that a VE of 150% meant that you had a lot higher boost in a cylinder than you do in the manifold. i.e. 30 psi measured in the intake would be like 40 psi in the cylinder. This apeared to be improbable based upon the flow restrictions of the cylinder head/intake manifold. Not to mention the 40+ psi of backpressure in th exhaust. Interesting reading: http://www.efi101.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1354 It is. I don't see how you getting to the conclusion of having more boost in the cylinder then in the manifold. Cylinder Filling it almost independent of backpressure. It only has the slightest effect due to overlap, and with a *0* overlap cam would have REALLY close to no effect. ************ From your supplied link: Before the thread digressed it was rather interesting. Definitions can be helpful. After looking through the thread I really didn?t see a specific definition provided. So I took a look in Obert and he defines VE as: The ratio of the actual mass of air inducted by the engine on an intake stroke to the theoretical mass of air that should have been inducted by filling the piston-displacement volume with air at atmospheric pressure and temperature. VE = (actual mass of air inducted per intake stroke) / ( theoretical mass of air at atmospheric temperature to fill piston displacement volume ) The name volumetric efficiency is actually a misnomer because actually it is a mass and not a volume ratio. ************* There is so much opinion, in that link that I'd say one would due best to ignore it. There are some nuggets in there, but you have to have a pretty good understanding of it to find them. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #54 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 04:53 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr What about cars that add a turbo to a N/A engine, like a Corvette. That car, and others, do not have a rising rate fuel regulator. They have a constant fuel PSI. So maybe those cars need the tables cranked up to 150%, to make up for the lack of fuel pressure. Does that make sense?? I bet a lot of FAST sales are for people doing turbo kits on N/A cars. I did not see a table or section in the set-up for the software to choose either rising rate, or constant fuel PSI, in relation to MAP. Did I miss a section somewhere? Bruce, this fuel pressure thing is a critical variable to determine how much fuel to add. I see the next gen. ECU's with fuel pressure sensors. What do you think?? (Edit) Actually, my Subaru's all have a fuel pressure sensor AND fuel temp sensor. That's right! I once had a code for fuel too hot. I bypassed my fuel pump controler and had over heated my fuel. The car actually knew that! ******************************************* For now, I'll stop thinking about it, and go with the flow.... ******************************************* Raising rate regulators are an ugly *work around* in my book. More often then not, they're to get around having properly sized injectors. Having the injectors work at a constant pressure differential, is the only way to fly in my book. If you do something other then that, the VE table becomes a base pulse width table, that just so happens to use the Ideal Gas Law's corrections. I have a fuel temp correction (indirectly) in my code. And for those still following along, now do you see why I harped on using MATs?. What would be interesting is to see how ACCEL uses the Manifold temp, in their code. Is it just for the AE calculations, or are they getting really clever. ******************************************* For now, I'll stop thinking about it, and go with the flow.... ******************************************* Then that makes all of this, just an exercise in futility. Last edited by Bruce : 06-07-2006 at 04:55 PM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #56 Report Post Old 06-07-2006, 04:59 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim This can further be proven by setting up a car perfect, then swapping the injectors, in a perfect world, you woouldnt have to change anything in the program other than injector size, and your corrections should remain as they were....if the table really was a VE table, since injectors have no bearing on VE. Some code allows for the operating characteristics of the injectors, and does allow for that. IMO, the injector vendors should get that data from the various manufacturers, and make it available to the public, so that VE tables could be treated as such. But, that's on a long list of things I'd like to see being done.... Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 9 votes, 1.44 average. Display Modes #61 Report Post Old 06-11-2006, 06:46 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr You would need specific gravity of fuel, temp of fuel maybe as a constant? I had assumed that the injectors flow at a linear rate. Now I'm thinking not so much. I see why Bruce would like the constant rate injector to ease the mathamatics involved (or take some of the guess work out.). But you loose the range of fuel on our wild motors. We need tiny injectors to idle and cruise, but then need massive flow at high boost. Rising rate helps that, just like the turbo adds to our displacement. Hand in hand, in a way. What, have two sets of injectors to expand the range of a constant PSI fuel system?? Fancy ECU there.. I guess you would need two sets? There is a national standard for the SG. No, they're not linear. Nope, it makes the math more complicated, but if you want to use the VE table as a VE table then you have to take the injector error out of it. Using current stuff, yes, it's hard to get that much dynamic range, but, who's to say there isn't a better answer?. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #63 Report Post Old 06-11-2006, 10:00 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Otto J I was told on any forced induction application you must use a rising rate reg. Something about adding atmosphere to the engine and the rising rate follows the atmosphere as it rises. Rising Rate means that the fuel pressure raises at a rate other then 1:1. Some of the current ones, are like 4:1. Meaning for every PSI of boost the Fuel Pressure increases 4 PSI. Trouble is, you quickly run out of enough pump to supply enough fuel volume, that the high pressures a rising rat reg generates. Quick reply to this message #65 Report Post Old 06-12-2006, 04:37 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr In those cases, if you had a FAST system, you most likely would see 110%-150% VE to get the fuel right. I bet that's how the FAST guys did their calculations, on a constant pressure system. Have you been reading along?. No, VE is about cylinder filling, ie AIR. You can't directly equate fuel with how much air an engine is pumping, since so much of it is used for in cylinder cooling. If you want to read up on the original research on that, then searching for NACA, Papers, and In Cylinder cooling shoud get it for you. I mention original research since there are so many experts that belabor their opinions rather then dealing with facts. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #67 Report Post Old 06-12-2006, 04:58 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI A rising rate regulator changes the pressure diferential and is, IMO, a Band-Aid approach. Bingo. The returnless systems, BTW, came about, only to min emissions. The recirculating of hot fuel, added more fuel vapor emissions, for the oems to deal with. Reply With Quote Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #73 Report Post Old 06-12-2006, 10:57 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Bruce, I was simply trying to explain why our cars do not get over 100%, and why others are seeing up to 150% in relation to the VE table in FAST. I really don't care if it is really the real VE or not. There's not such thing as *non real* VE, either it is or isn't. If you want to use the VE table as just a way to add fuel, fine, but you'll lock yourself into having problems as you develope the tune. ie. why at times the needs of the motor *go flat*, or decline. Understanding what VE is, makes it all the easier in the long term. Also remember, ecms are going to get more complex as time goes on, and what's just sorta important now, is just the beginning. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #74 Report Post Old 06-12-2006, 10:58 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Then what do you call a 1:1 regulator, where the PSI rises along with manifold pressure. It's called a *pressure referenced fuel pressure regulator*. Most folks just assume the *pressure referenced* part, and say Fuel Pressure Regulator. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #75 Report Post Old 06-12-2006, 11:00 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Why would they say up to 150%, Because, a good combination will acheive 150% VE. Get ahold of some of Alan Lockheed's work if you want a second *Pro's* say on the matter. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #76 Report Post Old 06-12-2006, 11:05 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim Unfortunately, FAST is doing it backwards and calling it VE. Its really not in this case. Call it what you will, it is a fueling trim. According to F.A.S.T., they are using true VE calculations, and the Ideal Gas Law, THEY are the ones who have it right, it's a matter of getting people to understand what's going on. Ya you can call it anything you want, but later on, if you really get into analysing data, the term will probably come back to bite you. Tuning, and code work require precision, sloppiness will haunt folks in that reguard. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message Quick reply to this message #78 Report Post Old 06-13-2006, 04:25 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Don't think I like sloppy work. I'm trying my best to understand what changes have what effect. That's all. It's obvious since your asking questions, and good ones at that. This *geekiness* will show it's self over time to be the way to go. Looking at data, and then thinking about say your cam, CR, or some other aspect of your combo, and then seeing what the VE is really doing, will lead to much better decisions, and thoughts for other ways to *skin a cat*. Reply With Quote Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 9 votes, 1.44 average. Display Modes #81 Report Post Old 06-21-2006, 09:45 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim In a perfect world, with a perfectly linear injector yes, it is a VE table. But since its not a perfect world, and very few injectors are linear, its not being used for ve, regardless of what calculations were used. If you took the same engine, and swapped ONLY injectors, you would need to adjust this VE table, when in fact VE never changed at all. *Proper Code*, has allowances for injector opening times, based on PW, and battery voltage, which do allow for a True VE table to be used as such. Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #83 Report Post Old 06-21-2006, 03:10 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by TurboJim Yes, if your proper code is set for *one* type of injector, you're certainly right. But since FAST cannot control what injector you're using, they cant hard code an injector characteristic. In the oem stuff, it's tables just like any other 2D table. If FAST doesn't allow for it, that's FAST's problem. It also, IMO, negates their claim for it being a *True VE Table*. Some snippets from that old miserable, 31T code, ie the 86-87 GNs. *------------------------------------------ * F33B TABLE - * INJECTOR OFFSET VS BATTERY VOLTAGE (ADBAT) - * TABLE VALUE = MSEC * 32.768 - *------------------------------------------ FCB 16 ; USE 17 VALUE TABLE FCB 255 ; 0 VOLTS FCB 255 ; 1.55 FCB 255 ; 3.10 FCB 255 ; 4.65 FCB 255 ; 6.20 FCB 80 ; 7.74 FCB 39 ; 9.29 FCB 33 ; 10.84 FCB 29 ; 12.39 FCB 27 ; 13.94 FCB 21 ; 15.49 FCB 18 ; 17.04 FCB 15 ; 18.59 FCB 15 ; 20.13 FCB 15 ; 21.68 FCB 15 ; 23.23 FCB 15 ; 24.68 *-------------------- * F94 TABLE * LOW PULSE WIDTH INJECTOR OFFSET * VS * BASE PULSE WIDTH *------------------- FCB 8 ; 0.488 MSEC FCB 0 ; 0.732 FCB 0 ; 0.976 FCB 0 ; 1.22 FCB 0 ; 1.46 FCB 0 ; 1.708 FCB 0 ; 1.95 FCB 0 ; 2.197 FCB 0 ; 2.44 FCB 0 ; 2.685 FCB 0 ; 2.929 FCB 0 ; 3.17 FCB 0 ; 3.41 FCB 0 ; 3.66 FCB 0 ; 3.90 Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #86 Report Post Old 06-21-2006, 05:27 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Someone spent a lot of time developing the stock "tune". I'm impressed. Too bad some of us throw it away and start all over. We'd have a hard time beating the factory guys. I didn't. I based my stuff on the 31T code, and then modified that to do what I wanted. ie, converted it to a MAP based system. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #87 Report Post Old 06-21-2006, 05:36 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Otto J Here we go again.Your on a quest to let the world know you think F.A.S.T is out to pull the wool over all our eyes Doesn't Gen 7 call there fuel table VE also? What do you call it?. It's a VE table that's not a VE table, if they wanted to call it a BPW Table that'd been fine, but they elected to call it something that it's not. If you believe it is a VE table after this discussion, well it looks like you've fallen victim to having the wool pulled over your eyes. The Topic was FAST and FAST XFI. And even if the Gen VII is calling a VE Table (if the various injector openings can't be edited) is no excuse for perpetuating nonsense, on either front. There's a number of finer points involved with code, and if they've *slipped* on that one, I wonder what else maybe wrong. BTW, did you catch Lance's statement at BG, about how they revise code almost daily?. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #89 Report Post Old 06-21-2006, 05:57 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Otto J And yet it still works.Imagine that.Your basically saying even the factory one has flaws,As it must you are still working on it.So why did gm release it? The Gen 6's, worked... It's funny how anal people get about engine building, and then give up on really trying to get the most out of an engine management system. Where did I say the oem code (31T) has faults?. GM in all the chip updates, has yet to do an update for faulty coding, that I know of. There is a difference between a recalibration data update, and coding change. You'd have to ask GM. Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #90 Report Post Old 07-02-2006, 07:51 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 While I've been on and off about getting a system together to datalog my gm/sec so that I could figure out my exact VE, I stumbled onto some worthwhile data. A 231 CID engine at 3,000 RPM at 100% VE is going to pump 201 gm/sec.. After looking at some misc data logs with DS, I saw a run that had 244 gm/sec at 3,000. Which means that combo, at 3,000 RPM was at 121% VE. At 5,000 RPM one needs to be moving 335 gm/sec to achieve 100% VE. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #92 Report Post Old 07-10-2006, 07:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Page 2, the chart, is extremely interesting. http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=52691 __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #94 Report Post Old 07-15-2006, 07:53 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI Wouldn't your gram/sec increase as boost increases for the same rpm? The 100% VE values you have posted are for 0 PSI aren't they? I would think the gram/sec would have to be a LOT higher if you were running 20psi and 100% VE Maybe I missing something? It depends on the turbo effeciency for that amount of air flow. As you get to the limits of a compressor, they start putting a lot of heat into the air, so while you might have more boost, you're not actually flowing a greater MASS of air through the engine. Nope, those are from WOT runs at over 24 PSI. The graph from the other list is important to look at. Since it's a datalog... Nope, the math is supported by that data log. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. Quick reply to this message #96 Report Post Old 07-15-2006, 08:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI So the 201 gm/sec is 100% VE for 24 psi? What would be 100% VE for 0 psi Have you looked at the data log from the other site?. The VE for 0 Boost probably would be in the 70-80% range. Boost is a result of how much air isn't able to be pumped through the motor. If there was no restictions to the air flow there would be 0 boost. VE is about how much air gets pumped through the engine compared to the engine's displacement. Any clearer?. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #98 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 07:51 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI No, I haven't looked at that log since I don't frequent that board. I was asking what the gram/sec were for 100% VE at 0 psi. I figured you might know this since you calculated it for 24 psi. I see we have diferent definitions of VE. Your new definition difers from the one you quoted off of megasquirt. From my post on page 2. Then this is going to be much harder to try and explain.... (pictures, words, thousand, etc.) The 201 gm/sec was a given from a datalog of a car running 24 PSI. It would take a lot more math, and computer skills then I have to reverse engineer the different flows based on boost. Nope, they're the same, just stated differently. The term in it's self is self explainatory, ie., volumetric efficency. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #99 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 07:54 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI So the 201 gm/sec is 100% VE for 24 psi? What would be 100% VE for 0 psi 100% VE is 100% VE. If it takes 201 gm/sec to acheive 100% VE, at 3,000 RPM, it doesn't matter what the boost was, what matters is the 201 gm/sec.. As I stated earlier, at 0 boost, the VE would drop signifigantly. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 9 votes, 1.44 average. Display Modes #101 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 09:04 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI You are goimng to have a lot more g/sec at 100% VE and 0psi vs 100% VE and 24 psi. Based upon your defintion, the VE will generally (not always) be above 100% when the car is into boost. Based upon the megasquirt definition (the one I prefer), the VE will hardly ever be above 100%. I think this is something we will have to discuss over the telephone. I don't see your logic in that first sentence. Often yes. If you'd look at that graph, and study it, I'm sure things would be clearer. If you want to Goggle around some, you'll see the explaination I use, is also true. If a N/A engine can reach over 100% VE, then that would show that over 100% isn't that hard to do, with a T/C. I'm home most every evening..... You, er Holly, has my #. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #103 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 01:30 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI I would agree with that. I just can't see it being much easier. It would still require the same pulewaves, etc.. to get over 100% No problem. BTW: Thanks for letting me drive your car at Indy. Too bad we couldn't run their road coarse with it But, in a non N/A application, instead of having the atmosphere pushing air past the intake valve you have pressure pushing the air in, big difference in that. I just had to let a few people *see* what my code was like. Ya, unleashing it on a road course would have been fun... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #107 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 07:34 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 10SV6 Bruce what's the difference in mass of 1 cu. in. of air at atmospheric pressure and say the 24 psi. Volumetric effiecency is a percentage, which means you're comparing 2 numbers. One is the volume of the engine. The second would be the volume of the air that the engine is actually ingesting. For your 204 g/sec to be used to come up with a VE for the engine at that rpm you would first need to establish what the mass of 1 cu. in. of air at 24 psi and whatever the inlet temp was to establish the volume of air used at that moment. Then you could compare that to the volume of the engines displacement and have actual VE at that point. I guess we ought to figure an error based on particulate matter in the air, if you want to split hairs. VE = Amount of air ingested by the engine compared to it's displacement, expressed as a percentage. If you have issues with that, it's your problem, not mine. As far as the standards in use, they're what others have set. If you want to split hairs fine, you can do the math, and point out *errors* or what you preceive as being errors. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #108 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 07:50 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI 1) The volumetric efficiency (VE) is a percentage that tells us the pressure inside the cylinder versus the pressure in the manifold 2) Are you saying this is incorrect and VE has nothing to do with intake pressure? Just to back up for a moment: 1) Yes, that makes sense. If the pressure in the manifold is greater then in the cylinder, then your over 100% VE. At 2 bar (of boost), you still have ~15 PSI more intake pressure then what makes it into the cylinder, at a glance or perhaps in a perfect world, at 2 bar you might expect 200% VE. 2) Where did I say that?. And lets not forget that there are wave actions, and inertia at work, so that even in a N/A engine you can see peak pressures above ambient conditions. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #109 Report Post Old 07-16-2006, 07:54 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI The pressure may be pushing it in, but a similar pressure is in the intake. If the pressure is higher in the intake, than the VE is below 100%, if it is lower in the intake than the VE is over 100% That looks backwards to me. How can you ever have, less pressure in the intake then in the cylinder?. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #114 Report Post Old 07-17-2006, 08:53 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by 10SV6 I'm talking about VE of the motor at a given pressure. I'm also pretty sure that's where FAST is coming up with their VE table. What you've posted looks to make sense. Now, if F.A.S.T. had just said what the table really is, rather then just leaving at VE.... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #115 Report Post Old 07-17-2006, 08:55 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr Simple, by going past the "crossover" point, with a BIG efficient turbo. Have you read "turbochargers", by Hugh McInxxx? You can have less pressure in the exhaust then in the intake, because of no overlap in our cams, the cyliner is holding a negative pressure compaired to the intake Yes, several times. Hence the question, I was asking, not stating it as fact. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #116 Report Post Old 07-17-2006, 09:05 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by HighPSI You have this backwards. Based upon the megasquirt definition (the one I prefer), the VE will hardly ever be above 100%. Yep.... If you use the term *VE of the motor at a given pressure*, rather then just *VE*. And the original phrase being discussed was VE Table, no one had mentioned the *given pressure*, until a few posts ago. So while one might be using code based on the *Ideal Gas Law*, others might be using a VE Table based on mechanical VE. FWIW, what you drove when you were driving my car, was coding based on mechanical VE. It would seem, at least to me, that using a VE table, and then a boost multiplier, gives very good results, since there can be greater resolution/ granularity in the coding. Thou, now I'm wondering if I should try redoing the code, as a Gas Law VE table, and then see how things are..... __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #117 Report Post Old 07-18-2006, 05:43 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by turbo2nr I thought grams/sec. was a measurement of weight of air per over time, not the volume. Would denser, cooler air produce more cooling on the maf, resulting in a higher reading, MAFs have a temp correction, either in the unit, or in the code. With a MAF system, it's about Mass of air. MAF systems have their own lil set of issues. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message #125 Report Post Old 09-04-2006, 04:57 AM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SloGN View Post also cal what is a good criusing spark advance value i'm curently using 30* in light throttle cruise. i have the target A/F around 14.7-15.1 cruising @ 30* is this ok? or is it too lean. car seem to cruise well @ 70-75 MPH @ 10 inches of VAC with this current setting. If you're working on a street car, and wanting to get the most out of what you have, you might want to add an oil temp guage. That'll let you better see how much heat you're putting into the oil. I've seen a well defined amount of timing, make a noticeable difference for me. FWIW, I run in the high 30s at cruise. If you want to get to splitting hairs on MPG, you'll want to *generally* look at what timing/ fuel gives you the smallest throttle opening to maintain a given MPH. Once you get close, you'll see the injector PW is almost a constant, and that the AFR change is about how much throttle opening you wind up running. The shorter the PW, normally means adding a lil throttle opening to get enough fuel. After a while it gets to be sort of a Catch 22. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. http://www.t6p.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13440 Reply With Quote Multi-Quote This Message Quick reply to this message #127 Report Post Old 09-06-2006, 12:46 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by SloGN View Post Well i was not sure how much timing it could stand with it being that lean since it has no EGR to help it out with the lean burn mixture. I don't want to over heat the cylinder and it cause preignition or knock. i'm still tuning the fast sys so i wanna keep it kinda safe. how lean does bailey run his chips with the highway mode patch and also does it use the EGR and what is the timing in that area. thanks. i'm not looking to get insane amounts of gas mileage the car has 55's so i know it's not gonna get the best mileage i have got 19 MPG highway and city with a couple of blasts passing some traffic. One concept to remember is *To run the least amount of timing consistant with max performance* (either MPG or HP). Lots of folks get carried away with running the most timing possible..... As I recall at the Nats this year, he was running about 15.5:1 with his car. I'm not sure which of his chips use EGR. The car's setup is critical to MPG. Lots of camber, toe-in, fat low profile tires will have huge effects on the MPG. I've gotten the best my best MPG with tuning for min TPS at a given MPH, and/or PW. As I said earlier, AFR isn't the only means of *guaging* MPG. It's more important to look at the fuel being comsumed, rather then just AFRs. __________________ News is like hot soup, it's meant to be sipped. if you swallow a big mouthful, you'll get burned. ------------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 01-14-2006, 03:18 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by Switchblade how restrictive is a tight torque converter? i have a stock converter on a tranny that was rebuilt a little beefier than stock. i am just wondering whats the fastest someone has gone with a stock torque converter. ive just got bolt-ons. 55lb injectors, 3" DP with dual 2.5 exhaust. razors alcohol injection. DFI. bigger turbo. stock intercooler. unopened engine. i am only running 15lbs or so of boost but plan to turn it up to 20 with some tuning. at this point, how beneficial would a looser torque converter be? and whats the fastest quarter someone has run with a stock converter? To make a long story short...... A looser converter has everything to do with launching... If you're at all serious about drag racing then it's a concern, if 99% of your driving is on the street, and your not into 60' sprints at traffic lights, then you can still have alot of fun with a stocker converter. I *finally* went with a Yank Converter, and yes I really like it, but the stocker was alot of fun for years. IMO, if you're going to be running slicks and not suffering too badly from being traction limited, then you'll be needing one rather soon. Reply With Quote ---------------------------------- Quick reply to this message #2 Report Post Old 08-01-2006, 03:16 PM Bruce's Avatar Bruce Bruce is offline Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,792 Quote: Originally Posted by arkansasfiddler another quick ques: can i engage the converter (with manual switch @ wot) at say....70 or so mph? also with foot to the floor (converter disengaged via switch) at what speed will od engage?..........any help is appreciated Depends on converter, and HP level your at. Co.s like Yank offer really heavy duty TCC clutches, there are others that even offer multi clutch setups to take the high HP engines. Depends on the chip. -----------------------------