Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 00:36:46 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  17-20" TIRES/WHEELS
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Heard last week that Butfoy's 6-speed is now available (but not this
Christmas, on my budget!) Don't know how many thousands, though... J DeRyke


Date: Sat, 29 Nov 1997 17:01:26 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Butfoy's 6-speed
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}Does anyone know more about the Roy Butfoy 6 speed?  Is it a standard Pantera 
}ZF that is converted to a six speed?  I would save my pennies for something 
}like that! 

}}}Actually, it's much more than that.  It's a brand-new gearbox from the
ground up, designed and built by Butfoy under the aegis of ZF.  That is, he
does all the R&D and manufacturing, then presents it to ZF and they bless it,
and it becomes a ZF gearbox and he's the subcontractor that manufacturers it.

Butfoy is busy building gearboxes for all those limited-run specialty cars 
being built in England these days (Harrier, Ascari, and even some Lotus cars); 
it just so happens that this mondo gearbox could be adapted for Pantera usage.  
Expect it to cost a whole lot, like maybe $8K-$10K??? 

I know that Lloyd Butfoy, Roy's son and partner, is (or at least was) a lurker 
on this list.  Lloyd, care to shed some light on the subject? 


Date: Mon, 08 Dec 1997 20:03:21 +0000
From: Dennis Antenucci {[email protected]}
Subject: Ring Gears - Part II
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}
 
Many years ago the car of my dreams was a Jag XKE or E-type. When I finally 
had enough bucks to buy one in 73 it was a 69 and I was disappoined to find 
out that the car was closer to 130 mph at red line then the 150 mph I had been 
reading about since 1961 in all the U.S. and U.K. mag's. 

After a little research I found out that the ring gears in the North American 
imports were geared a little lower then their European counterparts. So I got 
the higher gear option, built the engine and it still wouldn't do 150 mph BUT 
I was successful at blowing the engine!!! :-] 

I later fond out Jaguar provided a heavily tweeked car to the early U.S. and 
U.K. testers with even higher gears that allowed it to nodge the 150mph mark 
which for 1961 was pretty gawd damn fast for it's day. To this day I can only 
think of one other car that left such an impression and as Andy Poling would 
say, "we know what that is don't you?" :-] But the Jag was my "first love" and 
you never forget those. 

Anyway, when we were at Willow Springs last month Bo Bo (Brock Tella) 
mentioned that he had never got much more then about 135 mph out of his 
Pantera!! That got me to thinking this last week and everyone who knows me 
knows I don't like to think too much. 

So I talked to our ZF experts and I found out that the "early -1" ZF boxes 
were geared differently then the later ZF 5DS/2 boxes. The first gearbox, 
sometimes called the "close ratio" gearbox, was good for acceleration but bad 
for top end speed. If you run the early -1 box up to 6000 rpm with 27" 
diameter tires and a 4.22 ring gear you'll probably only see 135 mph versus 
the 157.8 mph with the later -2 box.  Use a smaller diameter tire and you'll 
go even slower.  The gear ratio's compared as follows: 

-1 EARLY BOX            -2 LATE BOX
I GEAR          2.41                    2.23
II GEAR         1.47                    1.47
III GEAR        1.13                    1.04
IV GEAR         0.958                   0.846
V GEAR          0.846                   0.705

This might explain Brock's acceleration out of the corners but limited
top end speeds. . .More to follow so stay tuned.
Mad Dog, IRA            

P.S. David do NOT go out and try this tonight! :-]


Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:44:47 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  ZF Gearbox
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

The #1 source for ZF parts is Roy Butfoy, he's the worldwide dude for Pantera 
ZF gearboxes. 

His son Lloyd is on AOL, at LButfoy.

Alternately, I'd phone Pantera Performance Center at (303) 660-9897, or FAX
(303) 660-9159.

There were several different styles of drive as production progressed (several 
different VDO and Borletti units) so you'll probably want to have all your 
gearbox info available, including all the data from the riveted-on dataplate, 
as well as the serial number on top of the box, and of course whether it's a 
Dash 1 or Dash 2 gearbox. 


Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:54:09 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Pantera Motor
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Safety-wire the ZF ring gear bolts. It's easiest if you buy American-made 
grade 8 metric bolts the right length and drill the heads yourself. Wire them 
in pairs. You cannot torque the bolts per the manual unless you have a set of 
crow-foot sockets for your torque wrench, since there isn't enough room for a 
std socket. (SAE crow-foots will fit- you don't need metric ones).There are 
two long cross-bolts that go thru the bottom cover. Between the bottom cover 
and the cast iron side-plates, there are a set of shims for each bolt, on each 
side. Keep track of what shims went where. Mixing them up, or leaving the 
shims out will likely crack the iron side-plates when the cross bolts are 
tightened. J DeRyke 


Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 20:41:21 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Broken Speedo
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Forgot to mention: if you're working on the speedo drive adapter on the 
transaxle, DONT! There is a short driveshaft attached to the right-angle 
adapter. If you remove the adapter, like as  not, the short drive shaft will 
fall down into your gearbox! This will require you to sweat bullets to r&r the 
rear tranny cap and maybe the gearbox casing to access the lost driveshaft. 
Non-good! If you absolutely MUST fiddle with that right-angle adapter, be 
extremely careful in removing it so the driveshaft comes out with the adapter. 
By the way, most speedo cable problems come from too-tight bends in the cable 
jacket; the cable usually breaks at the gearbox end but does not require 
removal of the adapter. J DeRyke 


Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:09:39 +0000
From: Mary Taphorn {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: Mooney's ZF Removal Next Weekend
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}I need additional advice on steps to SAFELY remove my ZF without removing the 
}engine. 

Don't sweat it. I too have a detailed engine bay and successfully pulled the
ZF without damage to the paint about 6 months ago.  If I remember correctly:

0) Remove deck lid
1) Unbolt engine mounts at the block (2 bolts each side)
2) loosen coolant hoses connecting coolant tubes to the engine.
3) Remove distributor cap for additional clearance so as not to hit firewall
   when lifting back of engine.
4) disconnect Shift linkage(wrap in towel and lay on side of bay), trans
   bolts, backup light wires, speedo cable and bellhousing bolts with clutch
   slave.
5) unbolt A/C condenser and pull to side( wrap in towel).
6) Inspect to disconnect anything else that's in the way that I forgot to
   mention.

Now you need to be creative with the tools you own.  The challenge is to lift 
the rear of the engine with out pushing on the engine's oil pan and distorting 
it. 

I used a cherry picker to lift the ZF high enough to clear the later style 
tranny brackets. 

Then utilizing a chain attached to the block, I connected the chain to a bar 
spread across my garage ceiling joists with my car ratchet tie downs.   I know 
they say don't use them for lifting, but they worked fine. Using the cherry 
picker to hold the weight of the tranny, I eased it off of the block and 
lifted it out cleanly - not a scratch.  I couldn't figure out a way to hold 
the rear of the engine up using a floor jack and not lifting on the oil pan.  
Resist all temptation to lift using the floor jack on the oil pan. I've 
learned the hard way. With my first Pantera, performing the same task, I had 
held the engine up with a block under the pan. When the job was completed and 
I started the engine, I could hear a metallic tap every crank revolution as 
the bobweight hit the scrapper.  Fortunately, I was able to bend the pan back 
to shape without removing it. Don't press your luck.  Wish you well 


Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 15:59:27 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]}
Subject: Re:  Re: Pantera Checkout Outline
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{The two fifth gear ratios are .846 and .705 respectively according to ZF 
  specs. As I understand it only early dash-1 gearboxes came with the .846 
  fifth, but the change to dash-2 boxes seems to have been made during the -71 
  production year, not while switching to -72. BTW, my car is #2004, July-71, 
  dash-1 with .705 fifth. 
Tomas}}

And just to complicate things more, the extra ratios that Roy Butfoy sells
come from the M-1 transaxle, which is different from both the -1 and -2 ZFs
used in the early (majority of ) Panteras. J DeRyke


Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:39:24 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: ZF Transaxle Rebuilding
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

POCA member Frank Jerome at Final Touch in Ft. Worth is a ZF master.

}}}When I met and spoke at length with Butfoy last July, he mentioned to
me that there were a couple of small-time non-Pantera-vendor ZF
mechanics out there that he'd heard great things about, that simply
order parts from him from time to time and seem to do quality work with
no BS.  One was Frank Jerome, the other was Bob Harrington down in San
Diego.  (Bob is an SDP member who also owns a transmission repair shop.)


Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:00:15 +0000
From: scott black {[email protected]}
Subject: ZF Transaxle Rebuilding
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}I would probably send  it in to someone like Butfoy to
}have it rebuilt and bulletproofed.

POCA member Frank Jerome at Final Touch in Ft. Worth is a ZF master. I believe 
he put together the ZF fort Keith Verges'one lap Pantera, and it ran great 
without any failure.  Nothing against Butfoy, but I think Frank is probably as 
good and most likely less expensive. Pantera owners ship him ZF's from all 
over the country. 

His basic "maintenance the ZF" package is about $400 plus parts (he also 
safety wires them at that point), and that includes painting (powder coating 
is also available). 

You can contact Frank at 817.496.5454

Is this a personal endorsement?   You bet.  He'll be going through my ZF-
hopefully-this summer.  He's sure done a great job on everything else he 
worked on for me. 


Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 14:09:13 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  SS/TPR Update (Was: How BIG is too BIG?)
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{Speaking of appreciating Junior's torque (from a 576 cubic inch Boss 429), 
  he was running a 3.56 ring gear!}} 

3.56 ring & pinion x 0.705 ratio for a ZF 5th gear= 2.50 rear end ratio!  Talk
about Bonneville gearing... (stock Pantera is 4.22 ring & pinion) J DeRyke


Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 21:20:32 +0000
From: John Parsons {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: SS/TPR Update (Was: How BIG is too BIG?)
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

} {{Speaking of appreciating Junior's torque (from a 576 cubic inch Boss 429),
}   he was running a 3.56 ring gear!}}
}
} 3.56 ring & pinion x 0.705 ratio for a ZF 5th gear= 2.50 rear end ratio!  Talk
} about Bonneville gearing... (stock Pantera is 4.22 ring & pinion) J DeRyke

Just picked up my gearbox,and on the bench was Juniors box, inside of which is 
a 3.20 ring gear. yes, we did double check. thought you would be interested. 


Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:45:52 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re: ZF durability (was: transplant [was 351C vs. 351W])
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}Can a ZF really take the power of a 427?

I dont think it can at least not without alot of work.

}}}Piece of cake.  Other than the cheesy synchro design (common problem with
ALL ZF gearboxes, and bound to fail eventually regardless of horsepower), the
Pantera gearbox is REALLY strong.  Pikes Peak hillclimbers routinely put 700
hp or more through their Pantera ZF's (their gearbox of choice.)  Now, THOSE
guys manage to break ZF parts by banging gears at 7000 rpm with no clutch, but
in a Pantera application, once the ring and pinion has been safety wired and
the synchros are good, you can pretty much FORGET about your gearbox, no
matter WHAT kind of motor you've got.


Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 15:20:50 +0000
From: [email protected] (Shane F. Ingate)
Subject: Re:  427 + ZF ??
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

} I believe it is ERA replicas that have a 427 Mark 4 prototype
} who claim that the ZF is not even close to being able
} to handle the power.

I'd be most interested in finding the source of this information.
According to http://www.erareplicas.com, ERA recommend using a small
block (260/289/302/351) and "..the original GT40 ZF 4 bolt transaxle
is available again in a stronger 7 bolt version (as used in Panteras
of the mid and late 70's)." ERA uses ZF's rebuilt by Roy Butfoy.

The Mk 1 GT40 (which ERA are reproducing) will not accept a big
block, and were never raced with the big block); only the much modified
Mk IVs which had a different floorpan could do that.

Again, I defer to GT40 enthusiasts for details.


Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 19:10:38 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re:  427 + ZF ??
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}The Mk 1 GT40 (which ERA are reproducing) will not accept a big
block, and were never raced with the big block); only the much modified
Mk IVs which had a different floorpan could do that.

Again, I defer to GT40 enthusiasts for details.

}}}The Mk II GT-40 used basically the same chassis with a 427 side-oiler.  The 
Mark II came 1-2-3 at LeMans in 1966 and won the manufacturer's championship 
that year.  Ford wanted to use the ZF then, but ZF hadn't finished designing 
and building them (!) so they had to use a one-off Ford gearbox instead, which 
gave them lots of problems.  The ZF finally came into play around '68, at 
which point most existing GT-40's had a gearbox swap. 

The GT-40 ZF is the first generation (Dash-Zero) of the design; Mangustas and
early Panteras used the Dash-1 (second generation) while most Panteras after
late '71 used the Dash-2.

If you're REALLY interested, I wrote quite a treatise on the subject of GT-40
gearboxes here several months back, search the archives...


Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 12:12:09 +0000
From: Ted M {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: FE transplant [was 351C vs. 351W]
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

A couple of years ago, when the Vegas Drags were still going on, and I was
starting to build my "killer" Pantera drag racer with a 900 HP pro stock
460, I was concerned with the stock ZF.  First I talked to Roy Butfoy, and
he told me not to worry about the ZF.  Then, at the drags, I saw one of the
Pantera owners with a very hot 351C, side stepping the clutch at over 6000
rpm time after time.  I went and talked to him, and asked what he had done
to the ZF to withstand that kind of punishment.  He said "nothing", he just
saw "real" drag racers doing that on TV and tried it, and it resulted in
much better E.T.s and top speeds.

The only failures I know of are the case breaking (the reason for using the
high dollar BMW cases), and IMHO these are with road racers and the cases
are breaking because of the up and down stresses caused by the fact that the
engine and transaxle are mounted at each end with the stress at the
transaxle front upper case.


Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 14:23:29 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  RE: FE transplant [was 351C vs. 351W]
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

{{Can a ZF really take the power of a 427? I dont think it can at least not
  without alot of work.}}

Jr Wilson sucessfully ran a stock ZF (regeared ring & pinion) behind a pro-
stock 527-inch Boss 429 that developed 920 horses. Ran the SS for 8 years,
with the only tx failure being when he got 'major air' at 220 mph and when he
landed, he hadn't backed off the throttle & the input shaft snapped clean in
half. Otherwise, no problems. J DeRyke

Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 21:24:25 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: 427 + ZF ??
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

}I seem to remember the GT 40s used Colleti transaxles.

}}}Right you are.  They originally used the Italian Colleti 4-speed gearbox
'cause that's all that was available.

They sucked.  Broke down all the time, which is why the GT-40 program tanked
so seriously in '64.

By '65 they'd had enough.  They wanted to use the ZF box but the Germans were
way behind production schedule, so Ford went to a wholly-owned subsidiary of
Ford, Kar Kraft, to have new gearboxes designed and built.  These gearboxes
were ALSO problematic; improper heat treating wiped out the entire GT-40
contingent at Le Mans in '65.

In '66 they had their act together.  They'd switched to the 427 by now, and
with the Kar Kraft boxes, they kicked butt, finishing 1-2-3 at Le Mans.  This
same Kar Kraft box was used in the Mark IV in '67.  When the rules changed in
'68 (outlawing big-blocks), Ford formally withdrew from competition, but John
Wyer (who had managed the production of the cars to begin with) campaigned
'obsolete' '65 GT-40's, with new, wider bodywork, pumped-up small-block
motors, and by now, the ZF gearbox.  The same car (#1075) won Le Mans in both
'68 and '69.  Most other GT-40's still running at the time also converted to
the ZF Dash-Zero gearbox.

Mike (who read a LOT of books on GT-40's while stuck in Korea for a year!)


Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 23:55:44 +0000
From: Dennis Antenucci {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: FE transplant [was 351C vs. 351W]
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

Negative. . .Neither Butfoy or Hall have had  failures on their ZF's on 
engines that have produced up to 1,000 hp. The first time I went to SS I asked 
Jr. Wilson how he preped his ZF for the monster 429/460 engines he used. He 
said, he safety wired the ring gear and that was it! However, in one case he 
over reved the engine on a airborne experience and when he came down to terra 
firma he broke his ZF's input shaft ($$$3k BILL). . .At Junior's suggestion I 
added a MSD soft touch rev limiter and since last year I have gotten airborne 
at speed twice at SS and while I damaged my rear quarter panels and 
experienced some serious pucker factor on the last flight my ZF and one of 
those lowly stroker Clevelands Mikey went on and on about. Anyway, both engine 
and ZF survived with no damage. This was all on the "old" SS road and unless 
you plan on pushing 175+ on hill flights you shouldn't have a problem. {grin} 


Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 11:31:25 +0000
From: William King {[email protected]}
Subject: type 1 transaxle question
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

I noticed in Shane's monthly blather posting that car # 1739 is listed as 
having a type 1 ZF. I own #1741 (just 2 apart for those of you who are 
scholastically disadvantaged) and I have a type 2. 

Now ... did the factory switch permanently at #1740 or #1741 or are there 
later cars than mine with type 1 ZFs as original equipment ? How about cars 
earlier than #1739 with a type 2 ? Anybody know ? Mike ? 


Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 20:20:07 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  type 1 transaxle question
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

A lot of the guys with Type 1 transales swapped them out for the type 2 with
higher gearing, better for highway stuff.  For instance, #1486 originally had
a type 1 (the orig. owner is still in Nor-Cal & confirmed it). He changed it
himself in the mid-70s to a type 2 which is still in there. J DeRyke


Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:18:17 +0000
From: [email protected] (Rodney Steffen)
Subject: Re: Type 1 transaxle question
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

car # 1739 is listed as having a type 1 ZF. I own #1741 (just 2 apart for 
those of you who are scholastically disadvantaged) and I have a type 2. 

Now ... did the factory switch permanently at #1740 or #1741 or are there 
later cars than mine with type 1 ZFs as original equipment ? How about cars 
earlier than #1739 with a type 2 ? 

William;

My car, serial #2548 has a type 2 transaxle. My friend Ed (not on this
forum) has serial #2348, only 200 numbers earlier, and has a type 1.
Notice both of these are 600 to 800 numbers later than your examples.  Both
are thought to be original equipment, but no way to know for sure.

My car has a January 72 build code, I don't remember what Ed's is.  At that
time, the Pantera production line was probably running near it's peak, so
they could have had an extended change over, in serial number terms, from
type 1 to type 2, in a relatively short time month wise.


Date: Sat, 29 Aug 1998 14:32:22 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  ZF
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

There are IMHO two (2) weak spots in the ZF. The first is the use of steel
synchronisers. Nothing practical can be done here. The second which may be
your problem is the tendency for the ring gear bolts on the differential to
come loose. This can (and has) totally destroyed gearboxes. The fix: drain the
oil & remove the bottom cover being careful not to loose the shim-washers
between aluminum cover & iron side-covers. Check for broken bolts, then remove
& replace all the ring gear bolts with US-made grade 8 bolts with safety wire
holes in the heads. Torque the new bolts with a crow-foot extension on your
torque wrench and properly safety wire them together in pairs. This can all be
done in the car, but is much more convenient on a bench. The ZF weighs 165 lbs
so be careful wrestling with it. Good luck- J deRyke

Date: 3/8/98 5:51 PM
To: Steve Liebenow
From: Mike Drew
Hi kids,

Well, it's Sunday afternoon and I'm back at work again. :{(  But I just
left the Nor-cal version of Mad Dog's ZF party, held up here at Steve
Mooney's place in Alameda.

The cause was a malfunctioning hydraulic throwout bearing, which meant
Steve's beautiful GT5 suddenly wouldn't shift anymore.

I showed up first around 11:00 and found the car in the air, all linkage and 
driveshafts removed, and all other bolts loosened.  The box was just itching 
to come out.  Ellis Woumnm arrived shortly thereafter, and then I left for 45 
minutes or so to run an errand.  When I got back, they had the sucker swinging 
from a hoist.  Because Steve has no A/C system in the rear of the car (it's 
moved up front), there's plenty of room to pull the gearbox straight back away 
from the engine, which is what they did. 

Also, whereas most people remove the two bolts holding the gearbox 'ears' to 
the chassis, after careful consideration they instead just loosened these 
bolts and instead removed the six bolts holding the ears to the side of the 
gearbox.  This allowed the gearbox to slide straight back, instead of lifting 
up two inches or so to clear the chassis mount. Very smart! 

There was visible wear and metal shavings everywhere inside the bellhousing, 
the hydraulic bearing was very obviously AFU.  In fact it had more or less 
seized. 

Jack and Judy DeRyke then showed up, and Jack began a post-mortem on the old 
bearing while Steve and I installed the new one.  I'll let Jack provide the 
diagnosis since he's MUCH more well-versed in these things than I am.  There 
were at least two terminal problems with this particular unit (probably 
resulting from incorrect installation); it's unclear which problem caused the 
other, but undoubtedly they were related somehow. 

This isn't a condemnation of the fundamental design, but it's important
to note that unlike the stock system, you REALLY have to be careful how
you install it, 'cause if it's wrong, it becomes terminal.  And when it
becomes terminal, OUT comes the gearbox!

Steve has a snazzy digital camera, and I got lots of photos before,
during and after.  Tried to get photos showing the bearing 'in situ',
and also tried to show the damage to the clutch fingers (not bad enough
to warrant clutch replacement, however.)

Steve will probably beam the photos to Curt T (1to9MPG) to post up on
his bulletin board.

Getting the gearbox back in was basically a snap, but having four people
really helped.  Being the youngest, most limber, and most foolish of the
bunch, I got to lie underneath the car and hold the 'ears' while dirt
and mung fell into my eyes.  Steve drove the hoist while Ellis and Jack
were on each side, guiding the input shaft into the clutch.  It really
went in very easily, and when I left it was completely installed, all
fasteners snugged down, and the boys were working on installing new
header gaskets, hooking up driveshafts, etc.

Total time I was there was four hours; if we hadn't spent a bunch of
time chowing on pizza and beer and chasing Steve's dog (who kept running
off down the street!), realistically I believe we could have R&R'd the
gearbox with about 1.5 hours continuous work.  But how much fun would
THAT have been?

Ah, the joys of being in a club!


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:43:56 +0000
From: ROBERT J RUIZ {[email protected]}
Subject: More on ring gear bolt specs
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

} }Okay, here's an update.  I managed to stretch a ring gear bolt today.
} }I had an old email fron Jack that stated 70 ft-lbs for the ring gear
} }bolt.  At around 60 ft-lbs, it stretched.  Ugh.  Called PPC and they
} }said to torque to 40 ft-lbs.  Anyone out there want to verify the
} }following torques for me?
} }
} }   rear cover - 15-18 ft-lbs
} }   side cover - 30 ft-lbs
} }   ring gear bolts - 40 ft-lbs
} }   cross bolts - 22-25 ft-lbs
} }   input shaft - 180 ft-lbs
} }   pinion - 250 ft-lbs
} }   bottom cover - snug and check for leaks
} }
} }BTW, Ted or Shane, this might be a good list to host on the 'net.
} }
} }In other news, dropped by the body shop and they had cut out the
} }wheelhouse panel. Lots of rust on that panel only.  Everything else
} }looks fine.

} The ZF manual indicates the ring gear to be secured with loctite and
} tightened to 58 to 65 lb/ft.  The tension bolts on the bottom of the case
} call for 12 lb/ft.  Since all these torques are contained in the manual
} (available from POCA and various vendors), and no one should attempt ZF
} repairs without the manual, I don't think it is necessary to duplicate this
} information.
}
} Why yours stretched at 60 lb/ft, I don't know, unless it was damaged.
}
} BTW the torques are listed in kpm (kilopondmeter).  The conversion factor is
} to multiply by 7.233 to get lb/ft.  e.g.: 8 -9 kpm x 7.233 = 57.9 to 65.1
} lb/ft.

Thanks for the info.  What I was looking for were any deviations from
what the manual states.  I've spoken with a couple of the vendors and
they recommend conflicting values.  For instance, PPC (in Colorado) says
to torque the ring gear bolts to 40 ft-lbs and Panteras East (where I
bought the bolts from) says 65 ft-lbs.  Since my bolt stretched at less
than 60 ft-lbs, I thought there might be reason to go to a lower value.
I called Marino and he doesn't know why it stretched and he says to try
65 ft-lbs again.

On the subject of manuals, I've got what I thought was a complete set.
I've got the factory Pantera manual (white vinyl 3 ring binder, came
with the car), the laminated electrical diagram, the parts manual
(purchased from PPC - the one with the red GT5 on the cover), and the
manual of TSB's (white paper bound, also purchased from PPC).  Is there
another collection of POCA TSB's.  The reason I ask is that the car came
with several loose leaf POCA TSB's.  I thought these were going to be
included in the TSB's manual but it appears to contain only Ford and
Detomaso bulletins.


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:55:43 +0000
From: ROBERT J RUIZ {[email protected]}
Subject: bolts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

I don't think you made a conversion error but I thought there might be a
lower value required with the softer aftermarket bolts.  I'm using a
ring gear kit from Marino at Panteras East.  The stock 10.8 bolts are
very hard and would have pulled to 60 ft-lbs easily.  It took
considerably more than that to break them loose and the wrench didn't
even scratch the bolt.  Marino's bolts are softer (the corners round
easily) but there is no marking as to what grade they are.

In torquing them, I made a box end extension for the torque wrench
(since there's no room for a torque wrench) that lengthened the wrench
by 50% so I reduced to the torque value accordingly (set to 40 ft-lbs).
As a test, I worked up in a couple increments.  30 ft-lbs on the wrench
(45 ft-lbs at the bolt) went fine but in going higher, the bolt didn't
seem to provide any aditional resistance so I pulled it out and checked
it against the original bolt and another one of Marino's bolt.  This
confirmed the stretch.  Marino checked his vendor and he says to go to
65 ft-lbs on another bolt and see what happens.   I'm wary of this.  If
I break a bolt, I am well and truly screwed.


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:57:25 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]}
Subject: Re: More on ring gear bolt specs
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]}

On the subject of manuals, I've got what I thought was a complete set. I've 
got the factory Pantera manual (white vinyl 3 ring binder, came with the car), 
the laminated electrical diagram, the parts manual (purchased from PPC - the 
one with the red GT5 on the cover), and the manual of TSB's (white paper 
bound, also purchased from PPC).  Is there another collection of POCA TSB's.  
The reason I ask is that the car came with several loose leaf POCA TSB's.  I 
thought these were going to be included in the TSB's manual but it appears to 
contain only Ford and Detomaso bulletins. 

}}}Not only are you missing the collection of POCA technical articles
(mostly written by Ted Mitchell during one of his previous tenures as
Master Mechanic), but you're also missing the dedicated ZF Dash-2
Transmission Factory Repair Manual, which will tell you EVERYTHING you
need to know to get into BIG TROUBLE with your gearbox [grin!]
Seriously, if you're dinking with your gearbox and you DON'T already
have this manual, DROP EVERYTHING and order this book!!!!!!

Also, the orange cover Ford parts book doesn't exactly duplicate the
DeTOmaso parts book, there's lots of good data in there, although the
organization is TERRIBLE!

All this stuff is available from the POCA club store; send an e-mail to Bob 
Reid (temporary (?) custodian of the store) at [email protected] for pricing 
info.  Vendors will have the books, but not the POCA tech articles....