Date: Mon, 01 Dec 1997 00:23:55 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Pantera trivia I bet you didn't know!
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

I had the good fortune to find a pamplet printed by Lincoln Mercury in the 
early '70's.  It was called a "Publicity Report" and dealt with articles 
reprinted from newspapers around the US. 

Did you know that if you wanted to buy a '71 Pantera and you didn't live on 
Southern CA or the New York City area you were out of luck? 

Detomaso was designing clothes and typewriters!

Here are some of the excerpts:

Detroit Free Press Feb 14, 1972
Detomaso says he puts in a 13-14 hour work day regularly and constantly 
travels.  "I've got a 57 foot motor yacht in the Mediteranian, but I'm lucky 
if I see it one weekend a year", he said.  The boutique (clothing) which he 
opened in Rome in October (1971), is "an outlet for my excess energy."  He 
designs 90% of the men's and women's clothing sold there and in his spare time 
is designing a new line of typewriters. (Anyone on the list have any Detomaso 
clothing or typewriters?) 

He recalled that a comunist newsman in Italy asked him recently if he was not 
ashamed of being super-rich.  "I told him is worked super-hard, put in super-
long hours and was super smart," he said with a grin. 

Seaside, CA  Post News-Sentinal  Aug 26, 1971
The Pantera will be first marketed in the Southern Ca, bay area and New York 
City area. 

Denver Colorado Post  Jan 25, 1972
Pantera is introduced at Kumpf Motor Imports in Denver.

Norfolk, VA  Pilot  Feb 23, 1972
Pantera is introduced in Tidewater, VA by Phillps Lincoln Mercury.

Birmingham, Mich Eccentric  March 2, 1972
Tjaarda, whose full name is Stevens Thompson Tjaarda, is a Birmingham native. 
Before he graduated from Seaholm (then Birmingham) High School in 1953, he had 
earned letters in track and basketball and placed second in the Fisher Body 
Craftsmans Guild model car competition. 

Chicago Tribune  Feb 18, 1972
Seven Chicago area LM dealers will begin selling the Detomaso Pantera luxury 
sports car March 1.  Those handling the $10,000 sports car will be Berens 
Motors, Inc., and Horace Nobel LM, Inc in Chicago; Holiday LM, Inc in 
Evanston; Royal LM Inc., Melrose Park,  Van Dahm LM in Oak Lawn, Touhy Ave. 
Motors, Inc,. Park Ridge and gerald Motors, Inc. Skokie. 

Battle Creek Michigan Enquirer and News  Feb 28, 1972
Pantera is invading the Midwest.  LM division of Ford Motor Co. had announced 
it will market the $10,000 luxury sports car from Italy in Detroit and Grand 
Rapids. 

The Pantera was introduced in this country in May last year but was marketed
only to the east and west coasts.  A total of 130 were sold last year.  So far 
this year, 103 have been sold. 

Portland, Oregon  The Oregonian  Feb 21, 1972
Fords new Italian built American powered mid-engine luxury sports car goes on 
sale this week. 

Pantera (italian for Panther) is being handled in the Portland area by Dick
Niles LM.

The Fort Worth Press  Feb 6, 1972
The Detomaso Pantera luxury sports car from Italy was introduced over the
weekend at Holiday LM Sales Inc., 2300 W. Freeway, and at other selected
dealerships in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio.

Philadelphia Inquirer Jan 11, 1972
...the Detomaso pantera will go on sale at four area LM dealers.  It will be
sold at Ray Swenson, Inc., McGowen-Lane in Wynnewood, Merlin Motors in Camden
and Waller Motors in Jenkintown.  Philadelphia ia only the fourth US market
where the Pantera will be sold.

I always wonder how many of these dealerships are still around.


Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 13:32:47 +0000
From: bo grims {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: "95 Nouva Pantera"
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

Are you talking about the Pantera built from rougly 1990 to 1996, looking like 
the previous ones but completely re-designed and built by carbon-fibre and 
steel, housing a 5 L engine (302 cui?)? If so, my information tells me 38 were 
made, and the last one from spring 1996, was a yellow convertible owned by a 
french guy.  He was at the Italy meeting 1996. 


Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 23:47:21 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re: "95 Nouva Pantera"
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{Are you talking about the Pantera built from rougly 1990 to 1996, looking 
like the previous ones but completely re-designed and built by carbon-fibre 
and steel, housing a 5 L engine (302 cui?)? If so, my information tells me 38 
were made, and the last one from spring 1996, was a yellow convertible owned 
by a french guy.  He was at the Italy meeting 1996. 

{{{I meant to respond to the list, and accidently sent my first response 
directly to Bo. 

I believe Bo's numbers here are correct.  In thinking about it, I realized 
that the number 29 that I was quoted was probably the first year's production 
total, not the TOTAL production total! 

Stephane Poux, the French DeTomaso importer (who owned the black car in Italy, 
and sold the Yellow Targa to its owner) told me that most of the Pantera 200 
cars had the standard Dash-2 Pantera ZF gearbox, while the last few were 
fitted with a new 6-speed ZF gearbox. 

That makes me wonder:  Would this new gearbox fit in the old Pantera?  It it 
available, and how expensive would it be? 


Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 11:37:33 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Panteras in Motor Trend
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

I've been meaning to send this little nugget to the list for quite some time. 
The time is now. 

This is a excerpt from an article in Motor Trend August of 1972:

International Report
Pantera Sales top all Exotics.  Lincoln mercury has delivered 364 Detomaso 
Panteras since the sporty two seaters introduction in may of '71.  March '72 
sales accounted for 110 registrations, a figure that exceeds American sales 
for each of the other exotic Italian sports cars for all of '71.  That means 
that Ferrari, Maserati, et al, are getting their comeuppance from the new kid 
on the block.  The Pantera is sold by 125 Lincoln Mercury Dealers is 58 
cities. 

The next paragraph was a report on Japanise cars with none other thatn Pantera 
Internationals own Wally Wyss reporting! 


Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:56:05 +0000
From: DtomasoCat {[email protected]{
Subject: Dealership Pantera Showroom sign
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

I just found something that I never knew existed.  I got a 24" x 36" (approx) 
two sided cardboard display sign of an early Pantera L.  This was something 
that sat next to the car or hung from the ceiling that described the features 
of the Pantera.  It has two views of a yellow "L" car on one side and detail 
shots and specifications on the other side.  It would have been in the 
showrooms around mid-1972. 

My question is:  Did  anyone ever remember seeing this sign?  Do you remember 
how it was displayed?  There are no holes through it (for hanging) or signs 
that it "slipped" into any type of floor stand. 

I know this is really stretching the memories for those of you "who were 
there" but I like to know about such things.  No, it is not for sale.  It will 
look great next to my lighted dealer Pantera sign. 


Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 02:10:03 +0000
From: Andy Poling {[email protected]{
Subject: Re:  SPEEDVISION CONCOURS ITALIANIO!
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{ Got it recorded! It's great!
[...]
{ {{{That depends!  Did they do a better job of showing DeTomaso presence than
{ R&T did? :{)

I was impressed.  They really packed a helluvalot into a 1/2 hour show.

Let's see... they covered Detomaso's from the early racers (Dave Adler 
interview) to the Vallelunga (Tom Matano interview) to the Mangusta (didn't 
catch the interviewee's name) to the Pantera (Tom Tjaarda, Dave Adler, Mike 
Coffel interviews, and short interview with, and footage of, Linda Adler at 
the track in Whiplash) to the Longchamp and Deauville (sp?) to the Guara 
(Steve Wilkinson interview - sounding distributor-like).  As they talked about 
each car, the camera roamed all over (and in) it, interspersed with 
restoration photos (if applicable and available). 

They talked about the different chassis layouts, backbone vs monocoque and the 
advantages of each (with pictures), the different engines, had file footage of 
what I can only guess were Ford TV commercials/promotionals for the Pantera 
and some club footage.  They also tied the cars together with commonality of 
Tjaarda design (I didn't realize he did the Longchamp and Deauville). 

Lots of shots of various Kitty's and the camera man was also obviously fond of 
the Longchamps.  It was hard to miss Whiplash and the Foster/Hohnhorst Group 
IV - those cars just refuse to be ignored. 

The interview with Tjaarda was very interesting, as he talked about his 
influences, goals and his design process. 

And that was only the first 20 minutes!  For the last 10 minutes the covered 
the Iso Grifo and Bizzarini.  That coverage was almost as good (mostly the 
interviewees weren't quite as sharp) with lots of interior and engine shots. 

It was a thoroughly enjoyable show.  I hope they run it again, cause I didn't 
get it on tape... 

I don't think an outsider watching this show would have even noticed that the 
factory wasn't present.  One thing that was obvious to me was that the 
producers were into it, and the various car owners really gave them quality 
info and pictures to use. 


Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 00:55:13 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Interesting Pantera.....
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

Mike Drew did a write-up on the Chrysler-Panteras a while back. There were 
apparently three built with 318 Dodge engines. One is in England and is 
regularly driven in DeTomaso Drivers Club events. Here's the second- in New 
Zealand! Where's the third one? J DeRyke 


Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 09:35:08 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re:  Interesting Pantera.....
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{Mike Drew did a write-up on the Chrysler-Panteras a while back. There were 
apparently three built with 318 Dodge engines. One is in England and is 
regularly driven in DeTomaso Drivers Club events. Here's the second- in New 
Zealand! Where's the third one? 

{{{Apparently several of these cars were built.  I know for a fact that two of 
them were part of the Carroll Shelby collection and were auctioned off a 
couple of years ago.  From what I understood at the time, one went to England, 
the other to New Zealand.  Paul's car was supposedly purchased from Jim 
Henson, which would indicate to me that it had been exported to the U.K. at 
least ten years ago, so that makes three (Paul has now taken his car to New 
Zealand too.)  Scott Black was at Shelby's 75th birthday party a few weeks ago 
and mentioned that he saw two Panteras there, one a GT5.  Both Dodge-powered?  
Now, is it possible that one of the cars that was supposedly auctioned 
actually didn't get sold?  I wouldn't put it past Shelby to bid on his own 
cars to drive the sale price up! {grin, said with admiration!{ 

Scott, care to tell us more about the Panteras you saw?  Were they both Dodge 
powered?  (BTW, I had always heard that they were 340 Wedge motors, not 318.) 

I had initially reported only two Dodge-powered cars had been built; recently 
I heard the actual number was four.  There seems to be lots of conjecture 
surrounding the topic, though. 

How come the DeTomaso registrar and POCA historian isn't in on this? Somebody 
find that man a computer! :{) 


Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:17:44 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: GTS Amerisport
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

For all of us that don't know, what is an Amerisport?

{{{Amerisport is the name of the company set up by Kirk Evans back in the 
'80's which imported Panteras to the USA after PanterAmerica folded. (George 
Stauffer imported some too, I can't remember the timeline exactly.)  Anyway, 
Kirk imported most of the GT5's and all the GT5-S Panteras you see running 
around the USA today.  I seem to remember that to get the cars around EPA 
laws, the cars were imported through Canada, and were sent to the USA minus 
engines.  Left-over '70's Clevelands were then fitted and the cars made whole. 

Or wait, wasn't that Stauffer's operation?  Yeah, I seem to remember reading 
the original Car and Driver (or was it Road and Track) test of the GT5 where 
they detailed how Stauffer was fitting Clevelands in the cars... 

Anyway, the bottom line is, the cars were ALL built by DeTomaso and exported 
here as DeTomaso Panteras.  Whether the engines were fitted in Italy, Canada 
or the USA is a trivial point.  Wilkinson says the quality of the '80's 
Panteras is far better than the '70's cars, while Hall claims just the 
opposite.  Who ya gonna believe?  I don't know if Gary ever stated that an 
Amerisport Pantera isn't a 'real' Pantera, but if he did I think his 
philosophy is flat wrong. 

If it's the one I'm thinking of (white car), Jeff's old car languished on the 
market for years it seems.  I don't know if it was Jeff or the subsequent 
owner who was trying to sell it though. (Jeff?)  The problem with it was, 
unlike virtually all the other Amerisport cars, it wasn't a flashy GT5 or GT5-
S, but rather just an ordinary-looking stock-bodied Pantera, with L-model 
bumpers (I think), a beautiful leather interior, and square-edged inner wheel 
houses like the GT5 and GT5-S.  It was an '83 I think, it originally cost an 
absolute fortune relative to early Panteras, and thus carried a high asking 
price, but it appeared no different than a '73 (other than the interior) and 
thus it was probably tough to convince somebody that it was worth any more 
than a '73.  Hence his difficulty in moving it. 


Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 14:05:55 +0000
From: Jeff Johnson {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: GTS Amerisport
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

My Amerisport GTS was a full-on Group 5 car with fender flares, spoilers, etc. 
It was advertised extensively for six months back in '91. It  is currently in 
upstate New York. Obviously it was not the vehicle that you refer to. 

If memory serves correctly, Kirk Evans outbid Stauffer for the rights to 
import the cars in 1986. Evans told me that Stauffer was upset by this outcome 
and consequently joined Gary Hall in his lambasting of Amerisport cars. Too 
many people have told me that Stauffer and Hall badmouthed Amerisport cars for 
me not to believe it. I have personally called both their establishments with 
questions, only to be told that Amerisport cars are not worth the money. Sour 
grapes, I guess. My '88 Amerisport was the finest car I have ever owned, and 
I've owned a few. I digress. 

Pantera officially stopped importing cars in 74. The majority of Group 5 grey-
market cars that found their way to the U.S. through 1985 are thanks to the 
efforts of Stauffer. All 1986-89 cars were indeed shipped through Canada by 
Amerisport in Wauseon, Ohio. Engines and body accessories were installed in 
Ohio. It is possible that a white Amerisport car was released without a body 
kit, since they were installed here. 1989 was the last year you could import a 
grey-market car without a separate crash test (that means you had to buy at 
least 2 cars!). 

The 1985 black Group 5 featured on the cover of Motor Trend was from Stauffer 
and eventually sold to a Ford dealer in Columbus, Ohio. That car is now in 
California, I think. I've talked to the current owner, but it's been a few 
years. 

I hopes this helps. There's more, I just have to remember it.


Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:34:58 +0000
From: Kirby Schrader {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: GTS Amerisport
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{Are you sure the GT5 flares were added once the cars arrived in the USA?
{I'd always heard that the cars came over complete, painted, all ready to
{go except for an engine.  You say different?  You KNOW the GT5-S cars
{came over here complete, that's for sure...

What little I know about this.... I agree with Mike.

When I traded in the right hand drive white car to Fred Fosset in Atwood, 
Kansas for a GT5S, it was to be one of the Amerisport cars. In fact, Kirk 
ended up with what was left of the white right hand drive car; whose transaxle 
and engine probably ended up in someone's GT5S... At the time, the price of a 
GT5S was $55,000. 

When I went to the Detomaso factory, they told me that my car would be 
completely assembled in Modena, test driven, etc. and then the engine and 
transaxle would be pulled before being shipped to the US (no mention of Canada 
to me...). They explained that the car was being imported as a 'kit car' 
(their words) and that the engine and transaxle from an older Pantera would be 
installed prior to putting the car through EPA and DOT certification. They 
said my car would look 'exactly like this' without an engine and transaxle 
when shipped while pointing to a red, right hand drive GT5S which was being 
shipped to the UK and eventually showed up in several UK magazine road tests. 
It was imported by the guys down at Silverstone. Phil Stebbings? I might have 
butchered the name there... The info is at home. But they were/are the 
Detomaso importers in the UK. I'm sure someone will help out with the name... 
Name starts with an M. 

Anyway, the point being that if the car was built as a GT5S in Italy, it was 
shipped as such with the body work, interior, etc. as is. After all, the GT5S 
has all steel flared fenders. Now, the GT5 might be another story... 

Another thing I heard was that prior to Amerisport's demise, the EPA had 
nailed them with the fact that every car was coming through the tests with 
about the same numbers. EPA got suspicious and marked the engine in one car 
with a UV dye. Next car that came through had the same engine! So, if this is 
really true, there may be some GT5's and GT5S's out there that don't even have 
the engine they were certified with... Gray market indeed! 

But again, this is just a story I heard from well placed sources who shall
remain nameless.

FWIW in the mud slinging department,


Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:27:34 +0000
From: Jeff Johnson {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: GTS Amerisport
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

It's my understanding that all Amerisport cars were GT5-S's. Kirk Evans 
explained to me that the cars were painted and assembled when they arrived, 
and were minus the engines. He modified the body by adding a different rear 
wing, fiberglass bumpers and the filler screen in the rear valance. Evans was 
a craftman who manufactured his own plastic and fiberglass components. 

He led me to believe that he added the flares, but I always found that 
curious, since they were a full fender bulge, unlike the bolt-on style flares 
of the early eighties Group 5 cars. You'll notice that the rear brake cooling 
duct is different on the Amerisport cars and it seems he indicated that was 
his creation.  This is where I get confused, but the Amerisport cars have a 
totally different spoiler and flare configuration than the Stauffer cars. 

Evans told me he had a video showing the assembly of several of the cars 
(including mine), which he promised he would send me. That was years ago and 
he never sent it, but that sure would answer the questions. 

I sure miss that car. Does anyone want to trade a GT5 or GT5-S for my black 
Mangusta? 


Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 23:11:25 +0000
From: DtomasoCat {[email protected]{
Subject: Amerisport Parts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

Amerisport Pantera parts (the ones unique to the car) which were designed and 
fabricated by Kirk Evans are available through Pantera East in Florida.  The 
last catalog I got from Marino had many Amerisport items in it.  I believe 
that Marino purchased all of Kirks inventory as well as all of Mind-Trains 
inventory. 


Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:39:46 +0000
From: POCA1 {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: GTS Amerisport
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

Just to add my two cents worth on this issue; Kirk Evans brought the bodies in 
as parts, and got a manufactures licence in Ohio, and so, technically; the 
cars were made in the USA, not Italy, and couldn't be sold in this country as 
a "DeTomaso" Pantera, because they were not manufactured by DeTomaso, but by 
the Amercian company, Amerisport, which was Kirk Evans. 

As I recall, Kirk bought some 25 bodies from the factory for Amerisport, and 
most, if not all were put together, and sold. 

I seem to recall that Kirk ended up not taking delivery on some of the bodies, 
maybe a second order, before he went out of business. 

I think Kirk did this to get around the restrictions and difficulities in 
importing Panteras that existed in the early 80's. 

I also think that there were some states the Amerisport DeTomaso Pantera could 
not be registered in, but I wouldn't swear to it. 

The difference between the two?  Beats me; it depends on whether you accept
the Amerisport as a "real" Pantera, or not.  Individual decision.


Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:46:08 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: Amerisport Parts
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{Amerisport Pantera parts (the ones unique to the car) which were designed and 
{fabricated by Kirk Evans are available through Pantera East in Florida. The 
{last catalog I got from Marino had many Amerisport items in it.  I believe 
{that Marino purchased all of Kirks inventory as well as all of Mind-Trains 
{inventory. 

{{{Actually, I don't know about Mind-Train.  I think they're still (quietly) 
in business in L.A., aren't they? 

Marino not only got Kirk Evans' inventory, he also got the MOLDS and is 
continuing to manufacture these parts.  Check out the Amerisport GT5-S wing 
which Steve Mooney has on the back of his blue GT5 conversion (last POCA 
PROFILES feature car.)  They seem to be excellent quality.  He has several 
varients of the wing, cool side gills for both early and late cars (with and 
without external gas filler door), and raised engine screens (2" or 4" rise.) 

Marino used to sell wholesale to Larry Stock (which is where Steve got his 
wing); I think Larry has a few Amerisport items in stock, but I don't know if 
he's still buying them from Marino or not. 


Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 23:07:37 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]{
Subject: Re:  Mangusta
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

Re: Amerisports Panteras
If DeTomaso built it and it's steel, it's real! Kirk Evans (Amerisoprt) was 
trying to get around the restrictive smog laws of the late '70s and make a 
buck; far as I can see the product was fine. J DeRyke 


Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 02:34:21 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]{
Subject: Re:  [4] Fw: Pantera 1320 ET? (fwd)
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

'76 Panteras were after Ford pulled out, so they are all private imports or
gray market from Europe. Don't remember ever seeing a test on the "transition"
Panteras of '75, '76, 77 or '78. Sometime in '79-80 was when the GT5 was
introduced. J DeRyke


Date: Tue, 07 Apr 1998 02:40:28 +0000
From: MMGT5 {[email protected]{
Subject: Race Pantera reappears
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

At last the mystery of the disappearing Superpower Pantera has ended. Last 
seen at the liquidators several weeks ago it turned up at Goodwood motor 
racing circuit over the weekend in the hands of a privateer practicing for the 
Italian Intermarque race series. The car was already at the circuit surrounded 
by mechanics when this new Ferrari 512 turns up and out steps this guy 
complete in race overalls and jumps into the Pantera. Two laps later it is all 
over as he is black flagged for noise violation. Despite the best efforts of 
the mechanics in fabricating silencers and the car spitting flames and banging 
down the back straight they could not beat the noise level. New owner jumps 
back in the Ferrari and is off again. 

What an indignity for this superb car, from competing with McLarens and 
Porsches and winning the prestigious British GT championship two years ago to 
competing against the odd 308 or Maserati but more likely Fiats and Alfas in 
the Italian Intermarque series  The Pantera will be so far ahead of the rest 
of the field they will have to handicap it somehow. This series is sponsored 
by Auto Italia magazine but is not much more than a club race. There is not 
much glory and no money in winning this series as Freddie Moss found out a 
couple of years ago when he won it twice in his White Mangusta (Shark Teeth). 

The new owner might have a problem before he starts though as most British
circuits are affected by new green legislation regarding noise this year.
Apparently at Goodwood it is 92db and very similar at other circuits. The
Pantera failed miserably and unless they can quieten it down a bit it won't
get past scrutineering.

This legislation has hit us hard over here as a club as the ordinary road
Panteras cannot make these noise levels. Pantera with GTS boxes is usually
100-103db so not much circuit work this year.

Nobody got a chance to speak to the new owner but as we hear more will keep
you posted.


Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 14:21:26 +0000
From: melton {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: How i found mine?
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{ Good luck Ted.  So what are you lookin' for?  I need to do more research
{ on what is what in regards to Panteras.  But so far I really like the
{ Pre-L (I don't what that means) '71-'73 (??)  -the ones without the plastic
{ bumpers-

There are several good books on the differences between the years...The change 
to the "L" model (Lusso) started in late 1972...Mine is an "L" but with the 
early style dash. I have a 4-6 page write-up that I got from PCNC that 
describes the differences in the years. If you want I could bring a photo-copy 
to the next meeting or event. What I remember is that the "true" L  has the 
later dash, a stronger support in the doors, different bumpers, the later "L" 
engines went back to 2-bolt mains...engine cover redesigned (move clearance) 
relays moved to one location...seal belt warning light...different universal 
joints and perhaps very slightly different front fender wheel openings...and 
really many other small changes...The car got little changes all through 
production, and some "newer" cars have older features....etc....Hey their are 
hand made Italian cars ! 


Date: Sat, 02 May 1998 00:02:29 +0000
From: melton {[email protected]{
Subject: Pantera Stats Part 1
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

The first part of the packet that I received from the PCNC was the checkout 
outline, I previously posted.  The next part was a brief history and 
differences between the years or model types... 

=========

Although the Pantera can be viewed as an exotic product, the guiding
concept comes from an evolution rather than from a revolution, based as
it is on the experience gained from Guigiaro's Mangusta.

American Tom Tjaarda was responsible for the body styling.  Born and
educated in Detroit but working in Italy, Tjaarda was successful in
creating a striking sports car in the true Italian tradition.
Previously, during his four years with Pininfarina, he has worked on the
Ferrari 365 California.

In 1968 Tjaarda had taken over as head of styling at Ghia, where the
Pantera was conceived.  Although it's design had been created without
the the help of a wind tunnel initially, later tests by Ford in their
Dearborn, Michigan wind tunnels showed that the shape and design were
extreamly aerodynamic.  The very first cars had the low drag coefficient
of .29.

With the ample availability of power, the slippery body gave the Pantera
a zero-to-sixty time of around seven seconds (slightly over six seconds
for the European version) and a top speed of 150 plus mph.
The Campagnolo wheels were fifteen inches in diameter, eight inches wide
in the rear, and seven inches wide in the front.  Tires were by
Michelin, 185 and 215.

The price in 1971 was at $9,995 (Note-In 1971 a Ferrari Daytona sold for
$22,000, a Porsche 911S Targa sold for $10,380 and a Corvette 350 sold
for $5,472).

The Models...

=========

To be continued...


Date: Sun, 03 May 1998 20:35:07 +0000
From: W4wj {[email protected]{
Subject: GTS and the VIN
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

A little more info on the Pantera VIN

American GTS cars have the third and fourth position of the VIN
e.g.    THGTxx00000    indicated as "GT"...

Euro GTS cars have the regular third and fourth position letering
e.g.     THPNxx00000   indicating Pantera.... note that you could be told that
a Euro car is a GTS (because of badges etc.)  but it was really not a
factory GTS car.

For those that forgot...

TH is the DeTomaso Manufacture Code
the xx position is taken up by the date code
and the 00000 is the consecutive (?) serial number
of the Panteras starting with 1000


Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 13:14:53 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: Ahh! GTS?
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

I have a "factory" 1974 GTS which does have "GT" in the serial number:
"THGTPL07080".  I have read that around 97 were made. Hovever, Mike Drew
tells me that 150 or so GTS's were made and around 97 had "GT" in the
VIN.

{{{Right, this info comes from DeTomaso registry author and POCA
historian Bill Van Ess (who is being dragged kicking and screaming into
the latter half of the 20th Century, and should be on-line and on this
forum within a few months.)

To clarify, about 150 *U.S.* GTS Panteras were made, and Richard's is
one of them.  Strictly a cosmetic package, no performance upgrades.
Nobody knows how many *EURO* GTS cars were made; these DID have some
worthwhile performance upgrades.  Hallmarks of a Euro GTS:

1)  Vented brake rotors with stock calipers (some)

2)  Holley carb instead of Motorcraft; also, did they use an aluminum
    intake?  I think so, can't remember offhand...

3)  Tube exhaust system with 4-into-2-into-1 headers and larger diameter
    tailpipes

4) Radio aerial in the center of the roof, angled to the rear; about 4
   inches back from the windshield opening (this may be common to ALL Euro
   Panteras)

5) Cosmetics:  Pantera GTS metal script at rear; Veglia clock in dash
   above glovebox; gauges in Italian; switches had pictures of a headlight,
   fan blade, overhead light, instead of the English words FAN, LIGHTS,
   etc.; cars were normally painted any of the common Pantera colors, with
   black hood, black decklid, black up to the crease in the center of the
   door, and all chrome trim blacked out; Script at the bottom of the door
   says DETOMASO, with a smaller PANTERA and GTS at the rear (note;
   sometimes the factory applied the graphics incorrectly, and the PANTERA
   and GTS appeared at the front!); most but not all Euro GTS cars had
   small riveted-on fender flares; Momo Prototipo three-spoke steering
   wheel with GTS center logo (also GTS center logo on gearshift knob and
   wheel centers); '71-'72 Euro GTS had Pre-L bumpers painted black; at
   some point ('74?) the one piece U.S. bumper was used with two-piece
   bumpers up front (turn signals were incorporated into the body as with
   the L-model; the front bumpers were simple blades)

6) Supposedly they used a different 4th gear ratio; I don't know what it
   was.

7) Also, supposedly the steering rack was repositioned with the Group 4
   shim kit (a simple pair of spacers that mounted between the rack and the
   body, to lower the rack and help eliminate bump-steer)

8) 10" wheels were NOT standard but were available as an option, normally sold 
   in conjunction with the "GTS" 7/8" rear sway bar 

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.  Based on the info already 
in the registry, I'm pretty sure the car you're looking at IS a true Euro GTS.  
Realistically, you'll see virtually no performance advantage today, since most 
U.S. cars have been tweaked to the point where they're equivilant to a Euro 
car.  But it's still neat to have one different from most of the rest! 


Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 15:55:46 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: GTS and the VIN
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{I was told that ALL unflaired early-style Panteras sold in Europe were
"GTS".

{{{Nope, wrong-o, rubber ducky!  Remember, the GTS didn't come out until
about May '72.  I've checked out quite a few Euro Panteras (mostly RHD
cars in England) and less than half were GTS cars.  Check out your
factory sales brochure (you've got one, right?) Several different
versions of the Pantera were available for sale in Europe:

Pantera 'L':  This was similar to the U.S. spec L-model Pantera
(low-compression, low-horsepower motor), differing only in that it had
two chrome front bumperettes, and a one-piece rear bumper after '73.

Pantera GTS:  Beaten to death already...

Pantera GR3:  Looked like a GTS, actually the example in the catalog is
painted a solid color without the GTS paint scheme, and without the
fender flares.  This was a production-class roadracer right out of the
box, had racing seats, six-point roll cage, monster brakes, suspension
tweaks, etc. etc.  Probably only a handful were made.

Pantera GR4:  The Group 4 race car, with all the GR3 tweaks plus monster
tires, massive flares, etc.


Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 19:12:15 +0000
From: Cristiano Rossi {[email protected]{
Subject: Sv: GTS and the VIN
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

Remember, the GTS didn't come out until about May '72.


Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 03:38:25 +0000
From: MikeLDrew {[email protected]{
Subject: More Euro Pantera Geekery
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

It's midnight, I should have been asleep two hours ago.  While checking out my
books on the DeTomaso name issue, I ran across a copy of the folding 1973
European Pantera brochure I referred to a few days ago when refuting the idea
that ALL Euro Panteras were GTS cars.  I was quoting facts from my sometimes-
dim memory then, and was pleasantly surprised upon seeing the actual brochure
to learn that I was mostly right.

To clarify:

Pantera L:  The pictured car is a very plain Pantera, with separate front
bumpers and turn signal pods (pods incorporated into the body, front bumpers
are simple blades.)  It DOES have a radio antenna, which would lead me to
believe that this was a standard feature on ALL Euro cars (anyone able to
refute?)  It had a one-piece U.S. style L-model rear bumper, however it is
chrome instead of black, and it doesn't stick out; Euro cars didn't have the
shock-absorbing rams that made the bumpers stick out, instead their bumpers
were installed on solid struts which were shorter and thus kept the bumper
closer to the body.  (Again, my Euro buddies, confirm or deny this?)

Advertised horsepower was 300 CV.

Pantera GTS:  The car pictured is actually a Pre-L 1972 GTS; front bumpers
incorporate the turn signals, and it uses two-piece pre-L rear bumpers.
However, it's wearing Arriva tires which came out the same time (more or less)
as the L-model.  I can't make out the steering wheel emblem, but the wheels
use the conventional DeTomaso emblem, leading me to believe that the 'GTS'
wheel emblem and steering wheel emblem were probably on U.S. GTS cars only?

Horsepower was 330 CV.

Pantera GR3:  It appears similar to the Euro Pantera L (two-piece blade front 
bumpers, one-piece rear bumper), but it has a front spoiler/air dam which is 
hard to make out in my copy (from a book), probably can be seen better on an 
original brochure.  It also has an external battery shutoff switch on top of 
the right fender, and rubber front and rear hood holddown doohickies (both 
also found on the Group 4.  Where the GTS doors are painted black up the 
beltline, and use a white script that says DETOMASO in big letters, then in 
smaller letters has PANTERA over a line, with GTS underneath (looks like a 
mathematical fraction), the GR3 uses the same DETOMASO script in white, with 
the word PANTERA but nothing under the line, and in fact a second line on TOP 
of the word PANTERA. 

Horsepower is again listed as 330 (PRODUCTION class roadracer, remember; rules
probably required a stock production motor.)

(I got a phone call tonight from a fellow who says he just purchased a
partially assembled but complete GR3 car with a fully-documented racing
history, run by Claude Dubois (no 'e' on the end Jack!) in Belgium, raced at
Spa and several other tracks.  He says among his documentation is a factory
document which states that exactly 25 GR3 cars were made.)

GROUP 4:  The interior of a somewhat well-worn car shows the tachometer has 
been pulled from the pod, and has been placed on top of the dash between the 
two pods.  (The Foster/Hohnhorst Group 4 car came to them in this 
configuration.)  The factory pretty photo of the car shows it with no external 
mirrors (in fact, NONE of the cars in the factory photos have ANY outside 
mirrors), but there are also two photos of a car decked out in competition 
livery, running in the Giro D'Italia.  This car has a chrome Talbot mirror on 
the driver's side, and a completely different mirror on the passenger side; it 
also has two huge round headlights tacked onto the nose next to the front turn 
signals (presumably so they could run at night without having to raise the 
buckets.) 

Horsepower is listed as "over 500."

Okay.  I'm going to bed!  Anyone who can add or subtract to this list (or even
gives a damn!) go ahead and do so! :{)


Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:57:49 +0000
From: JDeRyke {[email protected]{
Subject: Re:  RE: Info
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

It's an "L" if it has a one-piece rubber or fiberglas front bumper. It's a US
GTS if it has "GTS" somewhere in the serial number. If it has four small 
chrome or black-painted bumpers front & back, it's a pre-"L". Note that all 
the foregoing have their passionate believers that "this" is the best model, 
but the car's value is chiefly what's been done to it, how YOU like it, and 
how good repair it's in. Note that some US 'GTS' were '73s; most were '74s, 
and a few were European with no GTS in the serial. Confused? Welcome to the 
Italian car world! J DeRyke 


Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 15:35:38 +0000
From: IOIIOIIOII {[email protected]{
Subject: RE: keep your windows closed  'OS' system
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

Ah headliners: It is a little known fact that Detomaso did a lot of early 
research on air bags and other safety gear.  Detomaso literally spent millions 
of lire on the development of the 'Occupant Safety' device ( AKA: OS ).  They 
tested the OS device for countless minutes.  To ensure the most accurate 
testing results they did not use the test dummies, as was the norm with most 
car companies; but used real people as their test subjects.  The founder of 
Detomaso, A. DeTomaso was quoted saying, " why use dummies when we can get 
Americans to drive our cars for us?".  The far reaching thinking at the time 
was: since the Pantera already had a state of the art air conditioning system 
on board, there would be no need for the passengers to ever open the windows 
except in the case of an emergency.  The 'OS' system was designed to deploy 
when there was an excess of air turbulence in the passenger compartment (open 
window).  When the 'OS' sensor detected the turbulence, the 'OS' would deploy. 
It would drop down from the roof, completely covering the passengers head and 
face.  Protecting them from broken glass and metal fragments.  It is not know 
how many 'OS' cars were produced, but it is thought that around 235 worldwide. 
Of those 235 cars only a hand full are still in one piece.  The majority of 
the current 'OS' cars are in the hands of car collectors and are never driven. 
You will see these cars at car shows from time to time being carefully pushed 
on and off of car trailers.  This is one "rare" car because of the few 
remaining examples left. 


Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 20:36:44 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: Pantera 290
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

A Pantera 330?  The prototype V6 was the 290.  Whats the 330? I have a picture 
of the 290 at my website http://www.horizon.com/~ingate/pantera6.html).  Is 
this the same car? Note the rear deck lid is completely different to the 
Pantera. 

{{{The Pantera 290 was a one-off prototype made by installing the V-6
engine from the Mercury Capri into a Pantera!  Nice-looking car that
couldn't get out of its own way, but it was considered for production
due to the gas crisis.  Smarter heads prevailed and it quickly went
away.

(Imagine me speaking like Cliff Clavin from "Cheers"...) It is a little
known fact that the Pantera 290 was taken back by the factory and
rebuilt as a stock Pantera, and sold in Europe.  Later in life, it was
converted to full GT5 spec and painted red, and ultimately was owned by
UK club founder Phil Stebbings.  He put it up for sale when he purchased
the GT5-S that had been totalled during the 1996 Italian DeTomaso
love-in.

The car languished for sale for quite some time, being sold to a fellow
in Sweden who then suddenly backed out of the deal, etc. etc., and
recently it finally sold to another fellow in the UK.

This car gained some notoriety a few years back when it was used by
Coca-Cola in a UK televison commercial.  The car was driven by Pierce
Brosnan and the setup was very James Bond-ish, he was racing a train to
a crossing in the Pantera, he beat it of course, then opened the door
and sucked down a Coke.

Oh, and the licence plate was 500 FAB!

So, do I win the DeTomaso Mega-Geek trophy for today? :{) :{) :{)


Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 16:03:04 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re:  Siezed Pantera for Auction
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{{A Pantera 330?  The prototype V6 was the 290.  Whats the 330? I have a 
  picture of the 290 at my website 
  http://www.horizon.com/~ingate/pantera6.html).  Is this the same car? Note 
  the rear deck lid is completely different to the Pantera. {{ 

There were two V-6 prototypes; I'm told the "290" is now in England with a
normal hood & deck and a 351C. There was also a "270" which is listed in the
Registry as being alive & well in Sweden. No word on what engine, deck etc.
Never heard of a "330"- might be simply a ref to the supposed horsepower of a
351C. J DeRyke


Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 19:33:32 +0000
From: scott black {[email protected]{
Subject: Chrysler powered Pantera
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

I spent some private time with Carroll Shelby last month and him about the 
white GT5 Pantera at his shop with the Chrysler motor.   He confirmed that he 
owned the car (it was thought to have been sold at his garage sale auction). 

Shelby also said that Chrysler never intended to import the Pantera. He said 
the Chrysler powered Panteras were just engineering mules to determine whether 
the new sports car they wanted to build (the Viper) should be mid-engined or 
front engined.  He, at least a few weeks ago, insisted that the cars were 
strictly for this purpose and the rest of the story was just media hype.  Who 
knows.  They stories can change to fit the purpose or time.  But as of May 
1998, that was the official Shelby line. 

By the way, Shelby sold Panteras in the 1970's at one of his dealerships in 
CA.  He even advertised "Buy your Pantera from Shelby." I'm trying to secure a 
copy of the ad. 


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 14:03:29 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  RE: Leading and body work
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{{I believe a lot of cars [at least 2]  have a lot of lead in the channel 
  where the rear deck lid fits to the body, specifically in the relative area 
  of the gas filler.{{ 

You may be right- there might be a lot of Panteras carrying leaded bodywork,
but I doubt it came from the factory. As I said, our Sept '72L car had up to
1/2" of Bondo/plastic filler inside the channel in this area, not lead, under
the original paint. The Jan '72 NZ car was described as having extensive lead
on the outside of the body panels near this area, I believe. Lead takes a
great deal of skill to apply properly, is more time-consuming to use and costs
much more even when bought in bulk. I seriously doubt if Vignale A.G. used
lead in Pantera body production except for the well known spot-areas below the
tail lights. J DeRyke


Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 19:26:46 +0000
From: Debbie Terry {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: Leading and body work
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{ {{I believe a lot of cars [at least 2]  have a lot of lead in the channel
{   where the rear deck lid fits to the body, specifically in the relative 
{   area of the gas { filler.{{ 

{ You may be right- there might be a lot of Panteras carrying leaded bodywork,
{ but I doubt it came from the factory. As I said, our Sept '72L car had up to
{ 1/2" of Bondo/plastic filler inside the channel in this area, not lead, under
{ the original paint. The Jan '72 NZ car was described as having extensive lead
{ on the outside of the body panels near this area, I believe. Lead takes a
{ great deal of skill to apply properly, is more time-consuming to use and costs
{ much more even when bought in bulk. I seriously doubt if Vignale A.G. used
{ lead in Pantera body production except for the well known spot-areas below the
{ tail lights. J DeRyke

I've got to agree with David. I have seen numerous Panteras at a friends 
restoration shop after being stripped. The Italian body men use lead 
exclusively and extensively for filling and leveling. I have even seen a 
length of 1/8" acetylene welding rod attached along the edge of the rear 
quarter adjacent to the line of the deck lid with some stand-offs about 1/4" 
long. This welding rod was used as a guide for the lead work that was applied 
to bring the quarter in line with the deck lid. On my GT5-S lead is still used 
at the factory as a filler and surfacer around the windshield. 

My friend fabricates and welds in steel filler pieces where the fill area 
exceeds about 1/8". I would recommend the same and then use a good plastic 
filler. Lead is has a different expansion coefficient than steel and will 
eventually show hair line cracking. When I worked in a body shop after high 
school, plastic fillers were just being developed and had a problem adhering. 
This and the tendency to apply them too thick gave these fillers a bad name. 
This is not the case today. As far as lead goes, it is difficult to work if 
you don't know how. I can still work it quite well but prefer the plastics. 


Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 23:41:58 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  sidemarkers
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{{....thinking about welding the holes for the Sidemarkers shut.Put the little 
  round Italian sidemarkers on the front Fenders, nothing on the 
  Quarterpanels.{{ 

There were two types of front reflectors; the early #1 was round as you say. 
#2 was on later cars, a thin body-colored metal plate that fit into the stock 
chrome surround, with a half-round chunk of reflecting stuff the size of a Bic 
pen mounted on it (If you didn't want to weld up the front fenders). Both are 
pictured in Norbye's Pantera book. All Euro-Panteras also used the 4 
individual bumpers either chrome or black, so you might think about welding up 
the 4 big holes for the L-bumper rams, too if the car has them. Cheers- J 
DeRyke 


Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 13:54:13 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Re:  Re:  sidemarkers
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{All Euro-Panteras also used the 4 individual bumpers either chrome or black, 
 so you might think about welding up the 4 big holes for the L-bumper rams, 
 too if the car has them. 

{{{Wrong-o, Jack!  Most if not all post-'72 Euro Panteras used two-piece front
bumpers (just blades, no turn signals) and the same one-piece rear bumper as
US cars.  The Euro cars mounted them differently; the shock-absorbing rams
required by US law were replaced with solid struts, which brought the bumper
in closer to the body.

Check your factory sales brochures carefully; it's clearly shown there...


Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:07:42 +0000
From: Thomas Padula {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: sidemarkers
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

[Peter asked about the euro side marker lights.]

My '73 was DOT-ized, and as near as I can determine from fiddling with
the side marker lights, they were all add-ons. The wiring for the euro
cars makes no provision for the side lights, and there are kludgy taps
all over for them.

The side lights for my DOTized car were made by Seima Italiana, part
number 4538. I have no idea if Seima is still in business nor where
to get parts made by them. (Any suggestions, parts hounds? Were Seima
lamps used on, say Fiats or Maseratis?)


Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 07:12:15 +0000
From: Mike Drew {[email protected]{
Subject: Re: FW: VIN (again)
To: Multiple recipients of list {[email protected]{

{{
Month  71  72  73  74
Jan    LC  MB  NJ  PL
Feb    LK  MR  NU  PY
Mar    LD  MA  NM  PS
Apr    LS* MG  NP  PT
May    LL  MC  NB  PJ
Jun    LY  MK  NR  PU
Jul    LS  MD  NA  PM
Aug    LT  MS  NG  PP
Sep    LJ  ME  NC  PB
Oct    LU  MY  NK  PR
Nov    LM  MS  ND  PA
Dec    LP  MT  NE  PG
{{

* I think this one is wrong.  I think it should be "LE" instead of "LS".  
Otherwise you get two LS's in 1971.  It looks like the 2nd letter should 
repeat the pattern "CKDELYSTJUMPBRAG" 3 times.  (Yeah, I'm an engineer with 
tooooo much free time.) Anyone wanna guess what it means?  :) 

{{{Looks like the error is propogated into 1972 as well, with two "MS"
codes!  Hmm, I don't ever remember seeing this error before; where did
you get these from?  I know they appear in three different places
(DeTomaso parts book, Ford parts book and Ford Shop manual.)  Wouldn't
it be typical DeTomaso to have DIFFERENT values in different sources?!!!